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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Friday, March 20th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that heard Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg is abandoning the metaverse after spending 80 billion dollars on it over the last few years. What is the meta-verse? I never found out, and I am not going to find out now. [music break] On today’s show, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holds a press conference just to prove he’s still kickin’. And are you hungry? Rapper AfroMan is serving up some lemon pound cake. But let’s start with immigration. Obviously, there’s a lot going on in the world right now, but in the middle of it all, the Trump administration crackdown on undocumented and documented immigrants hasn’t stopped. Even for dreamers, recipients of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA. The policy was enacted by an executive order from then-President Barack Obama to protect undocumented immigrants, who were brought to the United States as children, from deportation. Here’s President Obama describing who the policy could benefit back in 2012. 

[clip of Barck Obama] These are young people who study in our schools. They play in our neighborhoods. They’re friends with our kids. They pledge allegiance to our flag. They are Americans in their heart, in their minds, in every single way but one, on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. And often have no idea that they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or a driver’s license, or a college scholarship. Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine you’ve done everything right your entire life. Studied hard, worked hard, maybe even graduated at the top of your class, only to suddenly to face the threat of deportation to a country that you know nothing about, with a language that you may not even speak. 

Jane Coaston: Side note, I miss him. Trump tried to end the DACA program during his first term in office and was stopped by the Supreme Court. But since he returned to the White House last year, his administration has made life harder and harder for the estimated half a million DACA recipients living in the U.S. New applications for the program are no longer being accepted, and recipients are having an increasingly difficult time getting their status renewed, making it almost impossible for them to keep working. And while there are conflicting numbers, the Trump administration has said it’s deported nearly 100 DACA recipients, and that’s not including everyone who has been detained. To talk more about what Dreamers are having to endure under Trump, I spoke with Laura Barrón-López. She’s a White House reporter for MSNOW. Laura, welcome to What a Day. 

Laura Barrón-López: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: The Trump administration’s immigration policy has been obviously all over the news over the last year for good reason. But one group I feel like we haven’t really talked much about are Dreamers, recipients of deferred action for childhood arrivals. You recently wrote a piece about how the Trump administration is treating Dreamers including an absolutely astonishing and heartbreaking story about a man named Juan Chavez Velasco. Who is he? 

Laura Barrón-López: So Juan Chavez Velasco is a 35-year-old man from originally from Columbia. His parents brought him here when he was eight years old in 1999. And he’s lived here and built a life here in the United States ever since. And since DACA’s inception, since he was able to become a Dreamer in 2012, he has been one. He applied for it, got it, has renewed it, which you’re supposed to do every two years. And he went to high school, went to college in Texas. He grew up primarily in the Rio Grande Valley and he now has a U.S. citizen wife and three U. S. citizen children and he’s built a life in West Laco, Texas. 

Jane Coaston: What happened to him? 

Laura Barrón-López: So on February 18th, Juan told me that he was arrested and detained by ICE. And he was on his way to the hospital because his youngest child had just been born 12 days prior. And that child, Eliana, was born prematurely. And he was on his way to the NICU before heading to work and he was gonna drop off milk that his wife Stephanie had pumped and had prepared for Eliana. And then a car pulled in front of him. ICE agents came out, started yelling at him. His wife Stephanie was on the phone and could hear it while he was in the car. And he said to them, I have a wife, I have kids, you can’t take me. I have DACA and ICE agents, according to Juan, said, quote, “that doesn’t matter.” So he was arrested, detained, transferred to Webb County Detention Facility in Laredo, Texas. And that is where he still currently is. And it’s been more than a month now. 

Jane Coaston: Lets back up a minute. Because DACA has been this kind of partisan tennis bullshit since it was first established in 2012 by former President Obama. Can you give us a quick reminder of who this policy is for, what it does, and what it doesn’t do for its recipients? 

Laura Barrón-López: Right, so it’s for people who were brought here when they were children by their parents and they are undocumented immigrants, but it was to provide protections for them, protection from deportation and also the ability to work and to go to school and to have a life here in the US. So they’re able to get work authorization. They have work permits. And that is what Juan had when he was arrested. He had valid DACA. And he also had a valid work authorization. Now, what it doesn’t do is provide them a pathway to citizenship. So it provides this protection from deportation, but it’s always been tenuous. It’s always been something that could potentially go away. And so for so long, as you mentioned, it’s been this political football of, will the government provide a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers? Will it not? Will Democrats, when they have the majority, do it? And they have never done it when they’ve had the majority. But again, when President Trump has been in power, whether it’s during his first term or now, he often says, oh yeah, I’d like to provide a pathway. But then he never actually does it. 

Jane Coaston: Once someone did become a DACA recipient, how did they stay in the good graces of the federal government? 

Laura Barrón-López: So they renew every two years. They go through background checks. They make sure that they submit their renewal applications about at least five months prior to when their DACA may expire. Although I’m hearing more and more from lawyers that they are immigration lawyers that they’re starting to tell Dreamers to renew a year out from expiration because U.S. citizen and immigration services is starting to delay those applications. Some immigration lawyers believe that’s intentional, that those delays under the Trump administration are intentional, so that way their status runs out. Under Trump 1.0, he wouldn’t allow new applicants. And again, they’re not allowing new applicants for DACA. But you stay in good graces by showing that you’re working, pay taxes. And that’s how they’ve been doing it, the ones who have been able to renew year after year. 

Jane Coaston: What has Trump’s Department of Homeland Security said about the DACA policy? 

Laura Barrón-López: So, when I reached out to them and asked them about Juan’s case and also Dreamer’s in general, they said that DACA does not confer any kind of legal status, that it doesn’t protect you from deportation, for any reason. It could be any reason that the government may find that you will become deportable even if you have DACA, and that could include a crime, but it doesn’ have to. Juan has no criminal history. Many of these dreamers who we’re seeing are being detained and some who have been deported since Trump came back into power have had no criminal history, so even if they’ve stayed in good graces, even if dreamers have been doing what they believe they need to do, what is the right thing to do. This administration has essentially decided that it does not provide the protection. 

Jane Coaston: That it clearly says it’s supposed to provide. So it’s basically saying that DACA doesn’t do what DACA says it does. 

Laura Barrón-López: Yeah, exactly. 

Jane Coaston: A DHS spokesperson also told you, quote, “being in detention is a choice.” What is that supposed to mean? 

Laura Barrón-López: They are telling people in detention, whether they’re dreamers or other detainees, including detainees who again, have no criminal history, who maybe have a different type of claim, an asylum claim or something else. But they said that dreamers can self-deport. That detention is a choice because they have the option to self-deport and on top of the option to self deport if they want to sign that document. DHS says they’ll give them money. More than $2,000. 

Jane Coaston: Juan came here when he was eight, he’s 35 now, so they want to give him $2,600, I believe, we just looked up. 

Laura Barrón-López: Yes. 

Jane Coaston: To abandon his wife and children and the life he has had since he was eight years old. 

Laura Barrón-López: Yeah, $2,600 is what they’re offering to Dreamers and others who decide to self-deport. But again, a lot of them feel like its this isn’t a decision. They have no choice. 

Jane Coaston: Right. 

Laura Barrón-López: They’re in detention. They’re being held in detention in some cases for months on end in what immigration and civil rights you know lawyers have documented as inhumane conditions. Juan told me where he’s at in Webb County Detention Facility that he barely eats because the food makes him sick and he only gets to go outside maybe once a day for a shorter amount of time and that there are a lot of people in these detention facilities who feel so desperate and cannot stand the conditions and are being harmed by these conditions and feel like they can’t get adequate medical treatment if they need it, that they are saying that they wanna sign the paper because maybe going to another country is better than what they’re experiencing in those detention facilities. 

Jane Coaston: For the dreamers who don’t want to self-deport but, like Juan, are being targeted for deportation before their statuses lapse, to be clear, and then their statuses aren’t getting renewed, what options are available to them? 

Laura Barrón-López: There aren’t many options, you know, and it depends case by case. In Juan’s case, he had applied for his renewal roughly four to five months previously, last November. He was arrested with valid DACA and then while he was in detention, it expired. And so he has very limited options. Sometimes it is at the mercy or the discretion of ICE and DHS officials or agents in your region who are working with the detention facility that you are being held in. And sometimes that can lead to release, or it’s whether or not you’re able to file any kind of claim, especially in federal court, to get your release. 

Jane Coaston: DACA has been the subject of various legal challenges over the years, as I kind of hinted earlier. Where does the program go from here? 

Laura Barrón-López: Wow, if I could answer that or if I knew the answer to that, I,  the future of DACA is going to depend on whether or not Congress takes action. Because as we’re seeing, when a president comes in who does not want to honor the spirit of DACA and what it was designed to do after President Obama’s executive order, then there isn’t really much that can stop him, that can stop a president that decides to do that. And so. Congress would have to pass a law that provides a pathway to citizenship for this population. And we’ve seen in poll after poll, you know almost every election cycle that the majority of voters, the majority of Americans support a pathway to citizenship, for this population specifically, for dreamers, for children who were brought to the United States at a young age and have now created lives, gone to school, contribute to the American society, pay taxes. Just in Juan’s case, he is a healthcare worker. He is a medical lab scientist who worked on the front lines of COVID-19 and worked in a medical lab at an ER. So he is dreamer who has contributed to his local community. 

Jane Coaston: Laura, thank you so much for joining me. 

Laura Barrón-López: Thank you. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Laura Barrón-López, White House reporter for MSNOW. We’ll link to her piece in the show notes. Immigration news always makes me feel like garbage because we all know the system could work for everyone involved, but it doesn’t. I appreciate you listening to us take the time to talk about these cases, no matter how hard it is. If you want to stay in the know, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

Jane Coaston: Let’s get to some headlines with Crooked Media Washington correspondent Matt Berg. Hey Matt! 

Matt Berg: Hey Jane. 

Jane Coaston: So Matt, Secretary of War/little boy Pete Hegseth wants a ton of money for the war in Iran, but hasn’t offered any explanation about what he’s going to do with that money. Here’s what Hegseth said Thursday about the request. 

[clip of Pete Hegseth] As far as $200 billion, I think that number could move, obviously. It takes uh it takes money to kill bad guys, so we’re going back to Congress. 

Jane Coaston: That’s right, Pete Hegseth wants Congress to give him a fifth of a trillion dollars to do something. What exactly? We don’t know. Hegseth doesn’t seem to know either, besides killing bad guys. He explained that he wants the U.S. to be quote, properly funded for what’s been done, for what we may have to do in the future. What will that be? Boots on the ground? President Donald Trump said Thursday quote, “I’m not putting troops anywhere, and if I were, I certainly wouldn’t tell you.” When asked by reporters about the budget, Republican Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins said they wanted more details, as do I. House Speaker Mike Johnson told reporters that he trusts Pentagon Pete’s calculations, saying, quote, “I’m sure it’s not a random number.” Which actually sounds like he kind of thinks it’s a random number. So Matt, you crunched some other numbers. And I just also want to note here that like, we are being asked for money by the least responsible relative any of us have. 

Matt Berg: Right. Its a $200 billion is a lot to just quote, “kill bad guys.” It’s worth considering what else the U.S. could do with this money. I crunched some numbers as did Crooked’s general team and we found that that much money could restore Obamacare subsidies for 22 million people for six years, fund food stamps for 42 million Americans for two years, and pay for a lot of free school lunches for every kid in America. And you know how Trump used to talk a lot about supporting coal miners? 

Jane Coaston: I remember that. I remember the coal miners and the hats and the going to events and rallies. 

Matt Berg: Right, and so one way that Trump could spend this money, if he wanted to, he could buy 20 Lamborghinis for every coal miner in America. I mean–

Jane Coaston: That would be a confusing day for coal miners, but still a better use of money than this money going to something. 

Matt Berg: Exactly. 

Jane Coaston: And related to the war, Matt, we heard from someone we hadn’t heard from in a while on Thursday. 

[clip of Benjamin Netanyahu] First of all, I just want to say I’m alive and you’re all witnesses. 

Jane Coaston: That was Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is still trying to convince the world that he is, in fact, very much alive after rumors that he suddenly died flooded the internet over the weekend. Ironically, Netanyahu during a press conference on Thursday said he doesn’t know who’s running Iran. There have been multiple reports that the new leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, may have been injured in a strike, but also we don’t know. Netanyahu also batted down claims that Israel dragged the US into fighting and said the US and Israel are in lockstep on its war efforts, Which is, um interesting. 

Matt Berg: Yeah, that’s one word to use. That’s not exactly what the U.S. is saying. On Thursday during a hearing, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard said, quote, “the objectives that have been laid out by the president are different from the objectives have been laid by the Israeli government,” which is different than what Netanyahu just said. First of all, let’s back up. Trump hasn’t really laid out any clear objectives aside from destroying Iran’s nuclear capabilities, which were largely degraded. During last year’s strikes on Iran. There’s also you know regime change and protecting protesters. Who knows what the objectives are at this point? Israel, meanwhile, seems like dead set on targeting Iran’s leadership. Again, these are just clearly different objectives no matter how you spin it. Trump’s team may simply be responding to media reports and criticism that Netanyahu pushed Trump into this war. You know, Trump does not want to seem like a guy who is pushed into a war by a foreign country but I mean, I don’t think anyone really knows what’s going on right now. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, yeah. 

Matt Berg: And that is the one true statement we can all get behind. 

Jane Coaston: Exactly. Um. So in completely unrelated news. Matt, do you remember Afroman? 

Matt Berg: I sure do. 

Jane Coaston: The rapper behind Because I Got High and Cult 45, well, he’s a pop culture icon once again because he had to go to court. Not because he got high, but for other reasons. A jury sided with Afroman, real name Joseph Foreman, against seven cops who sued him for defamation. The case stems from a police raid on Afroman’s house in 2022, which naturally caused the rapper to create a song called Lemon Pound Cake, making fun of one of the sheriff deputies weight. Let’s dissect the chorus quickly. [fake clears throat] Lemon pound cake, he wanna put down his glock. Lemon poundcake, trending on TikTok. Lemon pound Cake, he’s a family guy. Lemon pound cake got the munchies because he got high. Lemon pound cake, pound Cake. Now, general rule. If you are being made fun of by like a pop culture figure, the worst idea in the entire world is to sue them. Like, that’s just a really bad idea. 

Matt Berg: Yeah, I just want to say for the record that I was unaware of this song until I read this news. I remember being a 14-year-old boy in middle school and thinking that Because I Got High was the funniest thing I’d ever heard. And this song is very hilarious. You can see why it pissed off the cops. In the song, he makes fun of how they searched for evidence of drug trafficking and kidnapping, and they found none. He also uses security footage from the raid and clips of his fans singing along to the music, and obviously he just makes fun of the weight of one of the cops. I personally did not see Afroman’s comeback for this year, did you? 

Jane Coaston: I did not, though it does actually check out that this all happened because he made fun of police who invaded his home. And you can actually watch the security footage and you can see them, like one of the cops literally does get distracted by a cake dish. But I think it’s actually worth making the broader point that Afroman, after his trial said, quote, “it’s not only for artists, it is for Americans. We have freedom of speech. They did me wrong and sued me because I was talking about it.” Like his entire take on this was they came into my house, messed with my stuff, accused me of stuff, in response I made fun of them in a music video and then they sued me for defamation. So um he won, the jury ruled with him and I stand with him. Matt, thank you so much for joining me. 

Matt Berg: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: And that’s the news. 

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, contemplate touching grass this weekend, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how maybe it would be good to join the millions of your fellow Americans who don’t use social media to fight about politics and maybe spend the weekend watching basketball or hanging out outside instead, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston and I don’t know, just an idea. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Fohr. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We have production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]