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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Wednesday, May 13th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, a show congratulating Me Too, canceled director Brett Ratner on his upcoming trip to China, alongside President Donald Trump and a bunch of CEOs. The director of the Rush Hour franchise and the Melania documentary I know you didn’t watch will be scouting locations for Rush Hour 4, a movie that is only happening because Trump wants to see it. No, I am not kidding. [music break] On today’s show, Secretary of Defense/little boy, Pete Hegseth returns to the Hill with an inflated ego. And speaking of inflation, consumer prices are continuing to rise. You probably already knew that. But let’s start with China. President Trump will arrive in Beijing today for the long awaited U.S. China summit. It’s Trump’s first trip to China in nearly a decade and one where both sides see big opportunities, mostly to make money. It’s also a trip in which the global balance of power has shifted, arguably in China’s favor. Back in 2017, when Trump visited Beijing, he was a China hawk who said that China would quote, “lie, cheat, and steal in all international dealings.” Now he’s heading into China with declining poll numbers in the midst of an unpopular war with no clear exit plan. He’s looking to make deals, not problems. Meanwhile, China has become an economic and military powerhouse, more than able to stand up to the U.S. and Trump’s trade wars, and the whole world has noticed. So what leverage does Trump have going into these talks in Beijing? And what does it mean for the future of the U.S. China relationship? To find out, I spoke to Phelim Kine. He’s a D.C. based China correspondent at Politico. Phelim, welcome to What a Day. 

Phelim Kine: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: President Trump and Chinese President Xi are meeting in Beijing this week for the first time since 2017. And I’m curious, it seems like a big question, but how are the U.S. and China different today than they were in Trump’s first term? 

Phelim Kine: I mean, different today in the sense that the first Trump administration was overtly hawkish and hostile to China. Um. It was really the peak of China hawkness in DC. And what we’ve seen in this administration was this trade war that Trump launched in 2025, both China and the US spent much of last year punching each other in the face with tariffs and export restrictions. And they’ve kind of come to this point where they’re just trying to get along and they’re just trying to be stable. So, you know, I call this summit that’s gonna be happening in the next day or two, the incredible shrinking summit, because it’s not about big things. It’s not about wrestling China to the floor with the big issues that the administration was talking about even a few months ago, like ending China’s subsidies to its industries or retooling its economy to a more like consumer focus instead of an export focus. It’s now just about hey, I need you to help me with Iran, number one. Hey, number two, can you do something about the fentanyl flows? And number three, I need you to buy a bunch of my stuff because things aren’t looking so great back home in terms of domestic polling ahead of midterms in November. That’s kind of how it comes down to in terms of the administration’s approach to this meeting. 

Jane Coaston: There’s been a lot of reporting that China feels like the US is weaker than it was a decade ago. But I think that, you know, I’m an American who reports on American news. I don’t know what’s going on on the ground in China domestically. Who is coming into this with the cards compared to last time and how will that dynamic play out?

Phelim Kine: So, first thing is in terms of who’s stronger, who’s weaker. Look, China is an economic juggernaut and it has translated and funneled that industrial might into you know the one of the world’s most fastest growing military industrial complexes, right? So we have this massive expansion in it’s military, has the biggest Navy in the world. It is building its strategic nuclear forces at a pace unseen. Uh. And at the same time, you know, it is the workshop of the world. It is the world’s second largest economy. And to a large extent, it’s outpacing the US in terms of like key indicators. Not least its ability to broker relations trade or otherwise with parts of the word that are increasingly disenchanted with the United States as a result of the Trump administration’s foreign policy over the past year. Canada as the 51st state. Let’s invade Greenland. Let’s take out Maduro in this operation in Venezuela. Iran. So all of these things sort of play to China’s strengths in the sense that economically powerful, militarily powerful, talks the talk about being in favor of multilateral, peaceful, win-wins, and it juxtaposes itself against the United States, which is kind of like basically the opposite of everything I just said. 

Jane Coaston: So the talks are expected to cover a lot. You said it was kind of this incredible shrinking summit, but they’re still gonna be talking about trade, AI, Taiwan’s sovereignty, and the Iran War. China has been one of Iran’s biggest partners. It’s not getting the oil it typically gets from Iran, obviously, because of the Strait of Hormuz being closed. But what do you think each party wants out of this meeting? 

Phelim Kine: What each party wants most out of this meeting is a very low bar for success. And that is maintaining the stability that the two leaders were able to broker in their last meeting in Busan, South Korea. So that means number one, keeping tariffs stable so that there can be stable ongoing trade between the two countries. Holding back on export restrictions. You’ll remember that Beijing you know basically almost brought the US to the mat by this restrictions on these rare earth critical minerals. The US doesn’t want that to happen again. Both sides have domestic issues that they wanna deal with. Trump is dealing with a souring domestic political environment ahead of midterms. Xi Jinping is dealing with rising unemployment. He’s dealing with issues in terms of securing his own future as this strong man, authoritarian leader. So they just want to be able to take their respective tensions, put them on the back burner. So for the next 18 months or so, that’s what they want to do. It’s a low bar, but basically the status quo right now works for both of them with a few sweeteners in terms of trade and maybe diplomatic incentives. 

Jane Coaston: This summit was supposed to take place at the beginning of April, and it was pushed back because of the war in Iran, which is obviously still going on. How does being at war with Iran affect any potential deals Trump could make with China right now? 

Phelim Kine: Well, Trump is going to China, kind of like a cap in hand, asking for help from Beijing to pressure its partner ally, Tehran, to accept some kind of deal that will reopen the Strait of Hormuz. You know, the Iran War and the fallouts, specifically the paralysis of the Strait of Hormuz has really become a running sore on the face of the Trump administration. It’s jacked up gasoline prices, it has alienated partners. It is freezing and suspending desperately needed liquefied natural gas and oil cargos to throughout Southeast Asia and throughout Asia. So this is a real problem he needs to have addressed. And Beijing has leverage to do that. The big question is, will they apply it? And I am thinking that Beijing is actually pretty happy to just let Trump and the US stew in its own juices in terms of Iran and the Strait of Hormuz, because they’re pretty well situated with their strategic petroleum reserves, their massive uptake of renewable energy to see through this current period of disruption that’s been created by Hormuz’s paralysis. 

Jane Coaston: How will this new power dynamic, where the US needs China more than China needs the US, affect future relations between the countries? 

Phelim Kine: Well, I think first off is that the United States needs to get used to that, that there needs to be a sense that this is no longer the junior partner in a relationship in which the U.S., as the president likes to say, holds all the cards. This is a country that showed that it’s willing to go toe to toe in a really bitter and disruptive trade war with the U.S. And is willing to accept and bear the types of sort of domestic uh fallout from those types of engagements. The way that’s something that an authoritarian one-party state can do that a democratic state like the United States can’t. So I think that we’re really in an inflection point in this relationship in which the US is really coming to terms with the fact that this is a China that’s not just rising this is a China has risen that has agency that has confidence and most importantly a China that really believes that the U.S. has peaked, that this is the eclipse of the American century and that this century is much more China’s and the U.S. is in decline. That’s a huge part of this dynamic. 

Jane Coaston: Phelim, thank you so much for joining me. 

Phelim Kine: My pleasure. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Phelim Kine, DC-based China correspondent at Politico. We will not be heading overseas. In fact, we’ll be right here. If you’re enjoying the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. Headlines.

[clip of Senator Chris Coons] My concern, Mr. Secretary, is that you’ve achieved a series of tactical successes, but are on the verge of a strategic loss, because we are now negotiating a demand– 

[clip of Pete Hegseth] I just think it’s so foolish, here we are in a committee in the United States Senate, 74 days in and you’re talking about strategic loss. We have the ability to defeat–

[clip of Senator Chris Coons] 74 days in. 

[clip of Pete Hegseth] –a 47-year threat of a pursuit of a nuclear weapon. We have more leverage than we’ve ever had. 

Jane Coaston: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth was back on Capitol Hill Tuesday where he faced tough questions from both House and Senate lawmakers. That exchange was between the Secretary and Delaware Democratic Senator Chris Coons. Hegseth received pushback from members of his own party about the levels of US munitions used in the war and President Trump’s intense criticism of traditional allies for not taking part in the conflict. Imagine not being able to please anyone. U.S. Consumer prices climbed sharply again last month, as the 10-week war with Iran delivered higher gasoline prices and more pain for Americans. National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett spoke to Fox Business’ Larry Kudlow on Tuesday about the Labor Department’s latest report. 

[clip of Larry Kudlow] Certainly on the surface, you’ve got to admit, today’s CPI was a lousy number, six tenths of a percent. Um. Core ex-food and energy still up four tenths of a percent. So the 12 month change is 3.8 percent and the core change is 2.8 percent. What does an NEC director say on a day like today when the CPI is coming out so poorly? 

[clip of Kevin Hassett] Well, first of all, this is a temporary energy shock and that’s very clearly in the data. 

Jane Coaston: That’s enough out of you, Kevin. The Labor Department’s consumer price index rose nearly 4% since last April. That’s the biggest jump in three years. And let’s talk about the cost of food. Grocery prices went up 0.7% from March to April. According to NBC News, that’s the biggest one-month jump in grocery costs in almost four years. The Department of Justice is sending subpoenas to journalists at publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Axios, and the Washington Post, to get their records. The Wall Street Journal reported that the move was directed by Trump, who allegedly gave acting Attorney General Todd Blanche a stack of news articles he objected to with a sticky note on top that read, quote, “treason.” Blanche posted on Twitter Tuesday that prosecuting leakers was a top priority, adding, quote, “any witness, whether a reporter or otherwise, who has information about these criminals should not be surprised if they receive a subpoena about the illegal leaking of classified material.” Sure. Criminals. The head of the Food and Drug Administration has resigned. Dr. Marty Makary’s departure comes after a rocky tenure that drew months of complaints from health industry executives, anti-abortion activists, vaping lobbyists, and other allies of President Trump. Weirdest possible party invite list. But Trump doesn’t seem too worried about losing another administration official. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Marty is a terrific guy, but he’s going to go on, and he’s gonna lead a good life. 

Jane Coaston: To be clear, Marty Makary is not being sent to a farm upstate. Makary was in the role for just 13 months. An acting commissioner was named on Tuesday hours after the announcement. [clip of medieval sounding video game music plays] Should you invade Iran or order a Diet Coke with the press of a button? A new video game that popped up on the National Mall claims Trump faced this question weeks ago. Operation Epic Furious, straight to hell, pokes fun at the war in Iran and just about everyone in Trump world. It was made by an anonymous activist group known as the Secret Handshake, which is known for pop-up installations in DC trolling Trump. The game begins with Trump deciding to bomb Iran. He flies across the fake news Atlantic and past Greenland, renamed Trumplandia. And at some point, Pope Leo battles Trump with the powerful weapon of Catholic guilt. Read more about the video game, which you can play online, in the What a Day newsletter. The link is in our show notes. And that’s the news. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, contemplate how weird it is our president posts bullshit on Truth Social at like 1:30am, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how, for example, the president posted more than 50 times on Monday night and early Tuesday morning and most of his posts were weird AI images of Obama or graphics saying the stock market is doing great, like me! What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and let’s be real, if your 79-year-old grandpa were posting more than 50 times a night and falling asleep during the day, you would be worried. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Caitlin Plummer, Emily Fohr, Erica Morrison, and Adriene Hill. Our team includes Hayley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Case, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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