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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Friday, February 20th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that knew that whatever former President Barack Obama said about aliens this week, President Donald Trump was going to say something even weirder. Here he is responding to Fox News reporter Peter Doocy on Air Force One on Thursday. 

[clip of Peter Doocy] Something that got a lot of attention is that Barack Obama said that aliens are real. Have you seen any evidence of non-human visitors to Earth? 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Well, he gave classified information. He’s not supposed to be doing that. You know?

[clip of Peter Doocy] So aliens are real?

[clip of President Donald Trump] Well, I don’t know if they’re real or not. I can tell you he gave classified information. He’s not supposed to be doing that. 

[clip of Peter Doocy] Well. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] He made a he made a big mistake. He took it out of classified information. No, I don’t I don’t have an opinion on it. I never talk about it. A lot of people do. A lot of people believe it. Do you believe it Peter? 

Jane Coaston: You can always bet on Trump being weird as hell. [music break] On today’s show, President Trump worries America’s 250th birthday might be soiled by the smell of feces emanating from the Potomac. And former Prince Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor’s 66th birthday gets soiled by his arrest. But let’s start with the Department of Homeland Security. It’s been about a week since DHS entered a partial shutdown. Democrats are refusing to fund the agency until changes are made to federal immigration enforcement. And according to the White House, we are still no closer to a deal. That doesn’t mean that Immigration and Customs Enforcement is slowing down. If you’ll recall, they got billions of dollars from Trump’s big Republican spending law debacle disaster adventure. But the partial shutdown does mean that some DHS employees may soon be working without paychecks. And at a briefing this week, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt unsurprisingly placed the blame entirely on the Democrats. 

[clip of Karoline Leavitt] Now we have FEMA workers, the men and women of the United States Coast Guard, men and woman of TSA who keep our airports moving, who will be working without paychecks for no good reason other than the Democrats wanting to pick a fight with Donald Trump. And the president thinks that is irresponsible and despicable. He wants the government to be open. We’ve been engaged in good faith negotiations with the Democrats. Last night, they sent over a counter proposal that frankly was very unserious and we hope they get serious very soon because Americans are going to be impacted by this. 

Jane Coaston: But if you look at public opinion, Democrats aren’t being so unserious after all. Most Americans think ICE has gone too far with its enforcement operations and believe that the agency is making the country less safe. And a poll from earlier this month found that most Americans also want DHS Secretary Kristi Noem fired. Actually, a lot of people seem to want Noem out of her role, and that includes plenty of Trump administration personnel. According to reporting from the Wall Street Journal, the DHS under Noem has been, for lack of a better term, a total cluster. In her colleague’s view, she’s prioritized getting photo ops for herself over getting results for the Trump administration. In my view, DHS has been running roughshod over the constitutional rights of undocumented immigrants and American citizens alike. So there’s that. So for more on DHS scandals and what the future holds for Noem, I spoke with Michelle Hackman. She’s a reporter covering immigration for the Wall Street Journal. Michelle, welcome back to What a Day. 

Michelle Hackman: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: Let’s start with the ongoing DHS shutdown. The White House told reporters earlier this week that Democrats and the GOP are, quote, “still pretty far apart in terms of making a deal to reopen DHS.” Are you expecting to see any movement there before President Trump’s State of the Union address on Tuesday? Because it seems like nothing is happening. 

Michelle Hackman: Almost certainly not. No. Um And and honestly, the Republicans have very little incentive to work with Democrats because through their one big, beautiful bill, their huge bill that they passed over the summer, they’ve given you know the immigration parts of DHS roughly $170 billion to work with. And that money is unaffected by the shutdown. And so you know the things they care about, ICE, the Border Patrol, building of the border wall, all that stuff is still going on. And what Democrats have basically effectively done is kind of shut down FEMA and TSA. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, to that point in a tweet this week, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem blamed Maryland Democrats for the handling of the sewage spill in the Potomac River and said, quote, “Democrats in Congress have shut down FEMA funding.” So to your point, does FEMA not have access to disaster recovery funds right now or what’s going on there? 

Michelle Hackman: So FEMA still does. FEMA has something called the Disaster Relief Fund, which Congress sort of funds separately from annual, you know, the annual budget. And so FEMA does still have access to a lot of that money that they can use to disperse to states. Um. A lot of FEMA’s sort of daily work, you, know, their employees’ salaries is on hold. And DHS, I think, to increase the pain has purposefully been canceling. You know, staff visits to disaster sites, things like that. 

Jane Coaston: Are there other parts of DHS that are directly affected by the shutdown at the moment like TSA or something like that? Because I think people don’t get how big DHS is and what it includes. 

Michelle Hackman: Yeah, I think people think of DHS as primarily the immigration agency, which you know that that is one of its primary functions, but DHS, you know, is the TSA. Um. It does cyber security, it does a whole host of things. Um. One of the main things that people are concerned about are TSA agents at airports are not getting paid. And so if this stretches a while, you know I think DHS has an incentive not to try to move around money to pay TSA agents because they want it to hurt. Um. And so eventually that could lead to understaffing, flight delays. Those are typically the types of things that that make the American public actually really notice a government shutdown. 

Jane Coaston: Understandably. Now let’s get back to my favorite person, Kristi Noem. Earlier this month you published extensive reporting on Secretary Noem’s leadership of DHS, as well as her relationship with her top advisor, Corey Lewandowski. A real blast from the past for those of us who remember the 2016 election. Both of them are married to other people and have denied that they are having an affair, but I digress. But what did you uncover in your reporting about their reputation within DHS. 

Michelle Hackman: So we’ve been hearing for months that Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski, who is her top advisor, have basically been running DHS as like their personal fiefdom. They fire people seemingly at random. They yell at people constantly. Their their management style is what has really pissed people off and is all but driving people to sort of mass quit. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, reading the tea leaves in your reporting, it’s pretty telling how many Trump administration people were willing to talk to you to talk about how much they hate Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski. How popular or unpopular is Noem right now, even with her own colleagues? 

Michelle Hackman: Extremely unpopular, um you know, without going into details about who spoke to us. People are frustrated. It’s not you know this is not like a left wing criticism of Kristi Noem. These are people who really want to see President Trump’s mass deportation happen and succeed and feel like Kristi Noem is the wrong person to sort of do that job. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, that’s odd to me, because Trump cares about very few things, but among the things he really cares about is public perception of himself, in a very specific, weird way that’s complicated. But considering Trump’s immigration policies are unpopular right now, which he knows, which you you know saw what happened in Minneapolis, and Noem has been getting all of this bad press, why is she still in charge of DHS? 

Michelle Hackman: I think it comes down to loyalty. You know? Corey Lewandowski is Kristi Noem’s chief advisor. He’s sort of her political booster. And he is very close to Donald Trump. You know, we have reported that Donald Trump considers Lewandowski a friend. He considers him a loyal soldier. Um. And and we’ve reported in the past that he appointed Kristi Noem partially as a favor to Corey Lewandowski. You know, they were, the pair of them thought that being DHS secretary would sort of be a stepping stone in her political career. Um. It’s interesting, I don’t know if they still feel that way. Um. But you know the other problem is that Trump has gone around saying, I appointed the perfect cabinet. And so that has created some hesitation on his part to fire someone because that would almost prove himself wrong. 

Jane Coaston: You reported on an incident in which Lewandowski allegedly fired a Coast Guard pilot because a blanket of Noem’s was left behind on a plane. What do your sources say happened there? 

Michelle Hackman: Isn’t that crazy? [laugh] Um. What we were told happened. It’s it’s pretty much as crazy as it sounds. Basically, Noem was on a trip. They had to switch planes because their her original plane had mechanical reasons, and the crew didn’t bring over a prized blanket of hers. And so she you know she was so upset that Corey Lewandowski fired the pilot. Uh. But once they landed in their destination, they realized that they didn’t have anyone to fly them home, so they had to reinstate the pilot. 

Jane Coaston: That gives me like 0% confidence in anything these people do, which actually leads to my next question, which is that something you else you got in this reporting is how what Kristi Noem wants are very flashy immigration raids. She wants to be you know photographed at that, you know, super prison in El Salvador. She wants to be photographed wearing a flack jacket and holding a gun. She just wants to be photographed. And she’s been pushing out people who want to do immigration in a more subtle way, kind of less ridiculous to my view. Do we have a sense of what DHS is planning right now as far as future ICE operations knowing that Noem wants to get big flashy press opportunities. 

Michelle Hackman: Yeah. I think it’s sort of, it’s become a misnomer that like we’re gonna see less immigration enforcement. I think this administration and everyone there is still hell bent on doing numbers, right? They claim they wanna arrest a million people in a year. That’s sort of the number that they’ve come up with to do their mass deportation. But I think you should expect to see fewer of those huge flashy raids, like sending 3,000 agents to Minneapolis. I think you should expect ICE to do more sort of methodical searches for people, going to people’s homes, going to their workplaces, doing more workplace raids. And that’s going to be happening all around the country. I don’t necessarily think it’s going to look less aggressive, per se, but it might lead to fewer huge media ops. 

Jane Coaston: What else will you be watching for next with DHS and Kristi Noem?

Michelle Hackman: I will be wondering if the president turns on her. You know, we’ve been hearing that he, even though he’s not ready to fire her, that he’s really upset about the press that she’s been getting, about her management style. People at the White House are frustrated that she doesn’t take direction from them. You know this this White House likes to prize itself on sort of running the cabinet agencies itself, not really giving people autonomy. Um. And so we’re wondering sort of what what happens to flip Trump to finally get him to the point where he um appoints someone new. And if there is a new DHS secretary who’s maybe more effective, does that mean we actually do see more immigrants getting arrested and deported? 

Jane Coaston: Michelle, thank you so much for joining me. 

Michelle Hackman: Thank you. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Michelle Hackman, immigration reporter for the Wall Street Journal. More news, huzzah! If you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] This is our first meeting. But every dollar spent is an investment in stability and the hope of new and harmonious uh it’s a region that’s so important. It’s so vibrant. It’s so incredible. The people are so incredible, but we want to have a harmonious Middle East. The Middle East is amazing. 

Jane Coaston: Donald Trump said that nine countries will pledge seven billion dollars to help rebuild the Gaza Strip. It’s a notable investment, but far short of the estimated 70 billion dollars needed to revamp the war-torn territory. He added that the United States itself would be contributing 10 billion dollars. Money from where? Who know? Trump made that pledge announcement at the first meeting of the so-called Board of Peace, which includes very few of America’s closest allies. But as you might expect, the first meeting did include a lot of sycophancy. World leaders spent much of the event praising the president. Pakistan described him as the savior of South Asia. Indonesia said that with the leadership of President Trump, this vision of real peace will be achieved. Kazakhstan proposed giving Trump an award to recognize his outstanding peace building efforts and achievements. Reconstruction in Gaza won’t begin until Hamas fully disarms, according to both American and Israeli officials. And there are no current plans in place to ensure that the militant organization does so. But that didn’t slow Trump’s hustle on Thursday. He ended the meeting by banging a golden gavel and blasting YMCA. This week, 250 years after Americans rebelled against a monarch, it’s the British Crown that’s looking like a bastion of democratic values and public accountability. The King’s brother, former Prince Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, was arrested Thursday over his ties to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Andrew was arrested on his 66th birthday on suspicion of misconduct in public office in the most high-profile crackdown on Epstein’s network of global elites yet. Its familial ties to Buckingham Palace didn’t save him. King Charles III expressed his quote, “deepest concern over his brother’s legal troubles” before throwing his full and wholehearted support behind the police and investigation. It’s the first time a member of the British Royal family has been arrested since 1649, during the English Civil War. That arrest, of then King Charles I, ended in his execution. So this definitely isn’t a good thing for Andrew. The split-screen comparison with Trumpworld couldn’t be more stark. Here’s Trump on Air Force One during that press gaggle Thursday. 

[clip of unnamed news reporter] I got a question about something big overseas today. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Okay. 

[clip of unnamed news reporter] The former Prince Andrew arrested by the police there, um related to something with Jeffrey Epstein. Do you think people in this country at some point, associates of Jeffrey Epstein, will wind up in handcuffs too? 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Well, you know, I’m the expert in a way because I’ve been totally exonerated. It’s very nice. So I can actually speak about it very nicely. I think it’s a shame. I think it’s very sad. I think it’s so bad for the royal family. 

Jane Coaston: What a weird way to answer this question. The Lincoln Project, an anti-Trump group, wrote on social media, quote, “Donald Trump is mentioned 37,750 times more than Prince Andrew in the Epstein files, by the way.” In its continued effort to make the people who supported it in 2024 look stupid, the Trump administration has decided that what America needs most are pesticides. On Wednesday night, President Trump signed an executive order using the Defense Production Act to argue that glyphosate and phosphorus, chemicals used in the weed killer known as Roundup, are, quote, “critical to the national defense in order to ramp up domestic production of the pesticide.” If you’ve heard of Roundup it’s probably because it’s been the target of anti-pesticide campaigners. They argue that glyphosate has been linked to boosting one’s risk of developing a type of cancer that attacks the lymphatic system. In fact, on Tuesday, the agrochemical company Bayer, which produces Roundup, agreed to pay nearly $8 billion in damages to resolve thousands of lawsuits in the U.S. from people alleging that the company didn’t do enough to warn of Roundup’s cancer risk. One of those anti-pesticide campaigners was Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. who won a $300 million jury verdict back in 2018 against the then makers of Roundup, Monsanto, over those cancer risks. When he was running for president back in 2024, R.F.K. Junior said that his USDA would, quote, “ban glyphosate.” But that was then. And this is now. On Wednesday, the now Health and Human Services Secretary issued a statement that read in part, quote, “Donald Trump’s executive order puts America first where it matters most, our defense readiness and our food supply.” Of course. Donald Trump is worried that his big birthday bash this summer might end up smelling like shit. Seriously. That’s thanks to a historic sewage spill which we mentioned earlier on the show in the Potomac River. The river flows right through Washington D.C. And is prompting Trump, a notorious germaphobe, to fret that an evil stench might overshadow his planned festivities for America’s 250th anniversary. Which just happened to fall around the time of Trump’s 80th birthday. On Wednesday, a reporter asked White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt whether the president is concerned that downtown D.C. will smell during the summer when he plans to host a UFC fight on the White House lawn, an IndyCar street race through the nation’s capital, and other festivities. 

[clip of unnamed news reporter number 2] The president wants people from all over to come to the nation’s capital. Is he worried that by the summer, the Potomac River will still smell like poop? 

[clip of Karoline Leavitt] He is worried about that, which is why the federal government wants to fix it, and we hope that the local authorities will cooperate with us in doing so. 

Jane Coaston: Local officials are taking steps to clean up the mess. DC Mayor Muriel Bowser declared a public emergency and requested federal assistance. In short, Trump’s anxiety is based on nothing but his own inordinate squeamishness and disdain for local officials in big blue cities. In other words, the stench is coming from inside the house. And that’s the news. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, enjoy the not-at-all-terrifying sight of Donald Trump’s giant face on a banner on the Department of Justice, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how the banner was unfurled on Thursday as the DOJ continues to investigate Trump’s enemies, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and in general, giant portraits of leaders on government buildings has never led anywhere good. If it makes you feel any better, though, FBI Director Kash Patel took the FBI plane to Milan on Thursday to watch the U.S. Men’s hockey team play. At least one member of the Trump administration is focused on the [starts whispering] real issues. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Fohr. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters and Matt Berg. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison. And our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]