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Louis Virtel is joined by Rheeqrheeq Chainey to celebrate Lemonade’s 10th anniversary and seeing Madonna live at The Abbey. Then they break down Lena Dunham’s new memoir Famesick, the latest developments in the Summer House drama, and Lady Gaga and Doechii’s new single. Plus, actor Tony Goldwyn stops by to discuss his experiences on Law & Order, One Battle After Another, and the new season of Hacks.

TRANSCRIPT

Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel, Peabody winner Louis Virtel. Okay.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Okay, say it.

 

Louis Virtel Did you know that if a television show wins a Peabody, everyone on the whole show gets it? Like everyone, which is great, but we are all Peabodys.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey That’s amazing. Most of the shows I work on have a lot of dick and ass. So it’s not really getting to that level. But I love that for you, baby.

 

Louis Virtel Peabody-ody-oddy is what you’re working on.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh my god, thank you so much!

 

Louis Virtel But anyway, Jimmy Kimmel Live, Peabody winner, and I happen to be on the staff of that show, which still exists, despite the First Lady asking the show to be removed from the air.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t think she… I don’t know why she’s speaking. She hasn’t spoken. She never… Hi, also, I’m Rheeqrheeq.

 

Yo, I was gonna get to that. We’re with Rheeqrheeq Chainey once again, and the reason she’s here, one, she’s my friend, two, people keep asking for her to come back and I’m like, okay, great, here she is.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Thank you, kind people. Yeah, Melania deciding when she decides to speak, I always think it’s kind of fascinating because I don’t like is the comms team activating her or does she like wake up in her coffin and decide I must, I must rise? No, I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel The urgency is shocking because I don’t understand what she is privy to or cares about. Like when she has a campaign for something, I’m like, you put this together using words? Like this is what you’re thinking about all the time? Again, it’s like that one tweet she had where she’s like, what’s he thinking about? It’s a picture of a dolphin. That’s what I picture in her mind all the time. Yeah. Flipper antics.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean, as she put on a coat once, I don’t know what she cares about. I don’t think she does care about anything. I refuse to watch that documentary until it makes it on MUBI and I’m on a high dosage of opiates. In a country where we in the past have had first ladies who have had movements and all that sort of things, hers is just, you upset my wig? I don’t know. And I think I’m glad you guys just pushed through it doesn’t matter

 

Louis Virtel No, I will watch your documentary once they come up with a new service that pays you to watch the thing.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, didn’t they wasn’t that the thing that they were?

 

Louis Virtel That was basically movie pass.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think they were.

 

Louis Virtel I would go to the movies and they’re like, congratulations, you have $2,500.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey No, I weren’t they paying people to go to see it I think wasn’t in the air that like at least like some screening in Boston like pre screenings They were like here’s a $5 voucher for some like I don’t know a little bit more freedom. I don

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know. Well, by the way, one of the, I think it was Don Jr. Had a book that they were allegedly paying for copies to fly off the shelves for like, anyway, allegedly.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Which we know other people have done in the past too, but I mean.

 

Louis Virtel Anyway, we have much more important pop culture to get to, I’m employed is what’s important.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah! In these times, baby shot it from the rooftops. Having a job? Love that for you.

 

Louis Virtel Now, let’s adrenalize, because it is the 10 year anniversary of Lemonade. You don’t like Beyonce, is that right?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey No, everyone is, that’s what people say all the time, as evidenced by my-

 

Louis Virtel Rheeqrheeq, famous anti-Beyoncé fan.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey That’s my B-shaped pin I’m wearing if you’re watching this.

 

Louis Virtel You call there a hack and slow

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I’ve always said that she’s my favorite knee replacement surgeon, like 10 years ago. I think that’s like the theme of the episode, right? Like where were we a little bit 10 years ago and I was on a shuttle bus to the Rose bowl with like the baddest bitches in the world. I had, Lemony was so amazing. She’s like changed everything for us. I guess I wanted to, I don’t know, have a mansion in Charleston and like be under the reeds. I am so excited about this next era of Beyonce as previewed by a picture of her in a, let’s say purple rain ass fabric.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I, and Lemonade was one of the first moments where we were like, this is not just a singer or a songwriter, this an artist of untouchable proportions.

 

Louis Virtel I think also that’s the album where she definitively became our main album artist. Yes. And then two, she was always, if she was going to release the album, she’s like, and you’re going to do it on my terms. By the way, there’s this whole visual component that is essential to it. Because when I listen back to Lemonade, I’m first of all, know all the songs, but then I like the, it takes me right back to the images without even having to see them. Like, y’know.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey She dropped it, she dropped it over a weekend. I know I was funding in West Hollywood and made all my friends go back to our oldest friend who had HBO real, not HBO Max, so we could watch it on TV in real time. It was, these are events. And I think that like she, and people, other artists have spoken about this, like, okay, this is the model now. We can’t just give you a little oomsy bop. Like it has to feel monumental that world stop and then you carry on.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I also remember there being, when HBO, something, they didn’t specify what Lemonade was. So I was like, what exactly are we seeing? Is it lyric videos or whatever? And of course it turned into the music video experience we got from Lemonade. But I think also this album put a stamp on the fact that I think the signature feel that maybe she does best now is a combination of pain and swagger, which is like going all through the album. Like when you listen to Sari, You can’t help but move and yet you can’t also help but be like, well, this is a pained song.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey There, you know, to be a woman, to have some of her most personal trials aired out with security footage, she could have just kept it pumping. We could have never heard her speak about it or what that felt like or how to metastasize and finally flush out of her system. But instead she decided that that was something that she was going to incorporate into her work. I think that’s incredibly brave. And I think that like in with different divas. You know, they’re not always, it’s not always on its front pages. She was like, this is the time, this is all of me and good luck with it. And we were like, yeah, I’m I’m you and Kendrick. Yes, please ruin everybody’s life with that beat. And also it’s ethos.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Now this next era of hers is allegedly almost certainly rock themed.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yes, it is.

 

Louis Virtel We’ve seen some hints that maybe there’s a Stevie Nicks collaboration in the works. I, yeah, what’s your dream list? Like, what is it? It really is tough because, well, I mean, I feel like there’s gonna be a lot of historical, show us the homework. So you’re gonna be hearing a sample of like, Sister Rosetta Tharp, that I know.

 

Speaker 3 Yeah, it’s gonna be a lot of like

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey a musical J-Store happening, where everyone’s in the references being like, did you know about these Celtic banjos? Okay, babe, that’s it. I mean, what, she and Jack White are probably gonna get back together and do something really cool. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, speaking of lemonade

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Um, uh, like what?

 

Louis Virtel There has to be a Tina Turner reference.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, I mean, that could be, it’s a whole interl-

 

Louis Virtel I would love her to do her version of I Can’t Stand the Rain, which if you don’t know the private dancer version of, I Can Stand the Reign, people know the Missy Elliott take on that. So good, so dramatic, and so I think Beyonce too.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I would love to hear her sing like Janice.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, by the way, she routinely is doing a live performance, that’s actually the kind of vocal she’s given, that kind of growly thing.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey There’s like, I mean, as anyone who overpaid a music teacher when they were young to try to learn that, she has like this control and this texture that is so reminiscent of, you know, a hardly, hardly wired mic in front of 20,000 people on a field, which I guess is what we are at SoFi every couple years. And I want to feel that, like rock at its best shakes you, you now? Gimme Shelter, while going down the PCH, which makes you feel like you can be something. That’s what Beyonce does to a lot of people, including me.

 

Louis Virtel Well, by the way, you just put your finger on something that like rock as an inspiration can mean so many things. I mean, like I’m thinking of her like collaborating on stage with Prince and you know, whatever that was, 2005 or something. It’s like, I would be surprised if there wasn’t a Prince reference, so.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Well, I mean, to be fair, I think one of the big critiques of Cowboy Carter was the fact that because she took so long to make it, it was a lot of things. Yes, it wasn’t. It didn’t feel as contained as Renaissance. I do wonder, to your point, because rock can be a lot so many things. Is she going to pick an era? Is she gonna pick the like foundations of black artistry that like led to it? Yeah. Or is it that is it now? That’s what I call B. Like, is it just going to be a lot of it?

 

Louis Virtel No, you’re right, because she does not like to leave people out. As in, that takes…

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey The net is wide. But again, I think because country was, she knew what was going to bounce back on her as, you know, evidenced by going on the CMAs with Dixie Chicks, even though they invited her, and now you can hardly find it online.

 

Louis Virtel I love that performance. One of my favorites of hers.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey That… What it…

 

Louis Virtel They did long time gone, and uh…

 

Speaker 3 Woo-hoo! Yeah, and but my favorite is the horn player is like…

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Come on, come on, shake that thing! It’s just her shaking ass with her horn player who’s like doing a little two-step. Meanwhile, you have Matthew McConaughey beating his chest like he’s in a Wolf of Wall Street while he’s dancing in the audience. Yes, right.

 

Louis Virtel I really thought of him doing the bond goes when he got but i i i thought but you’re right also as well

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, he, when he was still in his Dallas Buyers club, like, tweensiness, he does the like, huh huh huh.

 

Louis Virtel The 15 minutes he decided to be prestige. He’s like, and now back to fool’s gold or whatever I usually start.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t know, is he gonna be like governor? I donno. I know, right.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, the possibilities are… I don’t know what the team is doing there over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, by the way, speaking of other divas, did you know that I was in the same room as Madonna over the weekend?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I only heard the scream from three miles away I, look, I was watching a documentary on a clown and I checked my phone, it’s fine, and I was checking my phone and one by one, every boy I know who goes to Barry’s started to pop up on my Instagram. And I was like, did I miss something? How was the Abbey and how was I’ll see you later.

 

Louis Virtel Well get this, some nice person invited me who I’ve known on Twitter for a long time.

 

Speaker 3 I love that.

 

Louis Virtel I’m Philip Henry, thank you. And I’m in line for the Abbey. Let me tell you, when you’re standing in line for the Abby, and I’m talking about the West Hollywood The Abbey, as in Pink Pony Club Chapel round The Abby, to stand in line there, takes you back to 2009 so fucking fast. I was about to say. I’m like, am I in line to see Lady Gaga debut Just Dance? Oh my god. It was like very bone chilling, because that’s the year I moved. To see Kelly roll in. Yes. Because that’s the year I moved out.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Telly Rowland is back here across the street. Remember, she was out, she used to be in the club.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me, and it would be either her or like Eve doing tambourine. That was exactly the era. So you’re in line and you’re, by the way, with all the gays people, you know. But I have to tell you, in that moment, I’m looking around and I’m getting real gatekeeping.

 

Speaker 5 Mm-hmm

 

Louis Virtel Because I hear somebody say the phrase, referring to the 2005 Madonna album, as confessions to the dance floor, at which point I become violent. Oh, honey, no. Because I’m there just for me, Lewis, the fan. And who am I surrounded by? It’s a riff-raff.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Well, yes. I mean, I think it’s so hard because you do have a populist diva.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey You have like a popular and populous diva. So to be so encompassly Madge coded and then you have like, a 22 year old being like, I love pink. That must have been really tough for you

 

Louis Virtel No, pink I think actually counts as obscure and interesting now compared to what these girls are in.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I was talking about the color, but that also I forgot about silk miss silks. I love you too girl, right? No, it looked overwhelmingly packed

 

Louis Virtel It was it was quite packed and also interestingly though it was like certain people were allowed near the dance floor Yeah, they had a whole layer of people behind the dancers and I just want to say that I ended up behind the Dancers and I couldn’t see very well and so I Poked one of them. I said I Lewis can’t see every well Everyone should be concerned there was fear in his eyes and there was a little bit of a back-and-forth And then he said this guy who was not one of the dancers standing up there. He goes I’m part of the people who run this whole thing. I’m bringing you up here. So I immediately, constitutionally, I was against standing behind the strippers and then I became one of the stripers. So I just want to say I had no backbone and then it was a writhing slut.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Audacity can end up with you on a go-go box. I know that from experience. Yes, right

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. But to do it at the Abbey. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, we’re hitting some depths here.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey God, I haven’t, the 2000s were so fun.

 

Louis Virtel That said though, once she actually appears, and she’s with Stuart Price, and let me just say first of all, Stuart Price who produced the original Confessions on a Dance Floor and is doing the sequel here, perfect collaborator for this time because he is so light hearted and she, you know, if you give her the mic for too long, gets a little monolog-y and has to educate you about Taurus in a long-winded, repetitive way.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey She’s in her celestial, like in a celestial era that was like fascinating. Like when we watched her appearance on Sabrina Carpenter a couple of weeks ago. And it was like, she really had the thread. And then she got lost in a different dimension for one second.

 

Louis Virtel Right, but the black hole became enveloped. Exactly.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And then Sabrina was like, everyone clap?

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And then we got back on beat and it’s like that’s isn’t that what you want from her now?

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no, it is. It was about a half hour of content, she previewed some new songs that sort of like mixed in between and played her other new song, I Feel So Free. It was just enough. That said, she is such a tiny little thing that when you look at her, it’s like this is the woman from Express Yourself, this is the woman who was like, you know, like an X-Men on stage.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Um, Louis had to remind me that I also have been in a room with Madonna. Yes. I forgot about it, which I think is, I think that’s the beauty of living. It’s like, wow, I definitely was in, um, the addition New York with her about four years ago. I was in flats. She was in a, I want to say like five inch heels and she came up to my areola. It was like fast, like she was so, so small and so, but the, I got to see the of it up close. Where she had curated the after party for Madame X screening with all these artists that like these new artists that she wanted for people to see. And she kept like smashing past her security to get closer to the stage to see them do what they do well. And I think that was what I found most interesting about it, her and that big old, but just like running to the state. And then coming back, seeing her cute boyfriend and being like, oh no, now everyone has to see this person. She still has that like potency of power, which I think is what we saw. The documentaries and the concert videos and uh… You know the gap commercial

 

Louis Virtel Yes Missy Elliot. I will say though during the time I spent standing on this stripper box before I went further into the crowd and into the crowd I made eye contact with all the people who know all the words to the old somewhat more obscure songs they were playing like they did thief of hearts from erotica they did uh I think uh rescue me which is was a hit but is an extra track off the immaculate collection and those girls and I made contact and that was the life of farming part of the whole thing Like, okay, we all have, you know, gay autism together.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, like after her appearance with Coachella, I went over to the House of Avalon. Hello, Simone, who was also- Oh, yes, Simone was there. Yes, former Kiba co-hostess. Yeah, and she, they are, their house has her in their spirit, and there’s nothing more jubilant than seeing the people who really love someone having an amazing time in proximity with them, and also Madonna, obviously, just bouncing energy off of that. Totally. It was like- She did say- And then as in, right, show up. And then Az and Ray show up.

 

Louis Virtel She did say, I’m mother or mother is here to save you 7,000 times now let me, the RuPaul song, Call Me Mother is about 10 years old at this point. I don’t know that I need to revisit that. That said, the way she kept saying it, like mother’s here to save, you was funny. I was like, it’s true.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But she is, it’s like, when I look forward to the Sunday where I’m guessing you get me out at 4 p.m. To go dancing, when those songs hit the dance floor, we’re going to have an amazing time. And that’s what you want from Mother from Michigan, from the people that brought you Mother Mary.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, I’m still thinking about that.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I keep saying it’s the movie for children whose favorite sport as a child was scarves.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah you mean Ellen Burston. Yes She did wear a scarf in our interview. She did of course, okay elsewhere in this episode today Lots going on. First of all, our guest is Tony Goldwyn. Now you have never seen the show scandal, right? Let me explain it to you. I’m kidding. You are so scandal coated

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I am so sad I missed this, but everyone needs to know that the week before the series finale of Scandal, I was at Baychella and walking across the field to see a pregnant Cardi B. And as I approach, a gorgeous white man dances towards me and it was Tony Goldwood.

 

Louis Virtel I was sure it was Jesus.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I was he was had a halo around him. We danced into each other in a way and I said maybe Fitz will be okay So I’m glad you got to talk to him

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, he was he was a doll we talked about he’s the star of law and order right now You’ve saw him on hacks recently and we specifically get into his role in one battle after another because you forget about Tony Goldwyn His whole thing is being bone-chilling

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey He was, I mean, but I can’t even talk about this right now. I think that there is a special category of like antique fine whites who will play like a terrifying racist and you’re like, they could be anybody.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah!

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey You should know that they could be anywhere.

 

Louis Virtel I’m channeling Ed Harris from this.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Uh yeah, the big one. I mean, who was in Watchmen? Uh, Bangs’ father?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, Don Johnson. Yeah, like in like in a Tarantino movie. Yeah.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, like it’s I think that that’s like I don’t know who’s bit that is of like gorgeous white people who play racist Kiki Dunst and Oh hidden figures she was rude in that film. She was quite uncouth

 

Louis Virtel Yeah

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But at the end, she called her Mrs. Because she learned a lesson.

 

Louis Virtel That’s true, that’s true. Also, we are getting into the new book by Lena Dunham, Fame Sick, which is, she has a member before that’s like 10 years old, but that was essays. This is more than just the chronology of her life and getting into, the depths of being fucking ill and how, you know, that takes over your life and can take you away from being creative, et cetera.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, and the weight of not being believed, but also while being alive.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, quite.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And a couple of things can be true and thank goodness that she has found people who believe her and also is aware of who she is.

 

Louis Virtel And I hope we also get into just our favorite celebrity memoirs period, because this is something we don’t really cover that much on Keep It. And like, we get a lot of good information from this stuff, as in beyond what like The Guardian recapped about these books, there’s like a lot good information in all these. So we’ll get into that on this, a new edition of Keep It.    [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you are aware that Lena Dunham released her now NYT best-selling memoir, Fame Sick, and has been on an electrifying press tour that we, frankly, did not want to end. Her memoir reflects on her meteoric rise to fame with HBO’s Girls, the cost of success in becoming a lightning rod of controversy in pop culture. It also explores her relationship with her ex, Jack Antonoff, her girls’ co-stars, and co-creator Jenny Connor, and her battles with chronic illness and addiction. Equally thrilling, has been watching her crush this press tour. From screaming about her love of loud luxury to exploring her nuanced and complicated relationship with her co-stars. What’s your relationship with this person in general? Does girls make an impact on you?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I watched it in real time. Lena has a couple years on me, but she was writing about exactly where I was in my life. It came out when I was working as an assistant and when I 23 at CAA and like trying to make it work with my girlfriends and screaming at men on the side of the street outside of the surly goat, I wanna say. Sure. So it really.

 

Louis Virtel That’s where I met our friend Krish Lanker for the first time. I like her the first time.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey A lot of people have met outside in that smoking area. So I love the show. I like that’s, I think that’s what kind of made some of her more, her louder fumbles in the media tough because I felt, found the writing and the show itself incredibly poignant and I connected with it a lot.

 

Louis Virtel No, I have to say, I mean, now that everybody has done a re-watch of Girls, like we’ve already had the conversation about it’s really good or whatever. The thing I love about the show is, it is never copying anybody else. Like the idea that we compared it to Sex and the City, it’s like, I get it, it’s for women in New York. The whole vibe of this show, and specifically the plot of the show, is always surprising and yet believable, you know? So in a way, this show is almost too painful to watch because it is often. Too real. Like Alfred Hitchcock has the quote about movies where he’s like, some movies are a slice of life, mine are a slice of cake. This was a slice of life.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel So it’s like, when things are a slice of life, it doesn’t have to be entertaining. It’s just gripping and you almost feel exposed, which is how I feel about this show.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I think that like in real time, I remember think like trying to compare what my life in LA would look like if I were in Brooklyn, which was my original plan. Yeah. And so there was a lot of like compare and contrast of like, is that what white girls in their 20s are doing? Because I got a couple here that aren’t like moving that way. But they did sleep with a man under a lifeguard stand in Venice. So maybe it’s the same. Yeah, there are parallels. There are parallels to that. But in, you know, I used to rewatch a season like on a random laundry day over the years. And it’s amazing how we’re poignant against as I get older. Yeah, because I rewatched the a lot of the last season while reading the book. And it like hurts to watch it now and not in a. I didn’t live a beautiful life because I did, but in the way of like, oh yeah, that time is gone.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, watching it now, it’s just, and I know this is kind of the point of the show, like everybody on the show is allegedly inexperienced, but there is such an innocence about the show now. You know, like the way you can be dumb then is so much different than if you’re dumb now.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, there are very few choices you make at that age that are permanent, and they all feel monumental. And I think that, like, that is one of the central tenets of the show, while, you know, you’re lusting after someone and jealous of Jenny Slate’s success, and that man you love has chosen someone else, and you realize you really don’t love him. That is so beautiful and the soundtrack is amazing and like it’s shot gorgeously and she took risks and that’s not easy in um they’re also

 

Louis Virtel There are also so many performances in that show. It’s like 30 Rock where it’s like, you forget about certain cameos and they’re all great. Like I love Yoruma Takoni on the show as that guy Booth who’s yeah. To be named Booth is already such a swing, and I’m like, I’m in.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Stupidest names we’ve had. I think it was like amazing. But then I remember, you know, that was also the era where people would be like, I am no longer John, I am Trinity. Like it was a very crazy time. But I was trying to think of like, cause I don’t ascribe to like which girl are you, which sexist are you person are you.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I am definitely none of the above on that.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, but I was like I think I’m Natasha Leone when she shows up and is like Jess said did you get my mama pills?

 

Louis Virtel Also, Natasha Leone being used correctly, I’ve said recently, I wanna host a seminar on casting Toni Collette correctly, because when people cast her just to play silly, or cast her to be a strange guy, it’s like, no, she did Mariel’s wedding one time, and then she moved on.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I have a running bit with Jeffrey Self and Augie Prue about the fact that we need to start doing She Deserves Better, which is a convention of girls and gays where we fire one actress’s team a year. Oh, okay. We fire the whole team. Every delegation gets to nominate whose team we fire.

 

Louis Virtel I can see in your throat you’re saying Naomi Watts and I don’t care if you don’t feel you made that gesture. I see it

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I love you, Amy Adams, and we have to have a conversation. I just like, I really do believe that they’re like, that’s where the popular vote should be put. Yeah. And then we figure out what to do next. But yeah, Natasha is exactly who you want her to be in that episode. But like the show is, I mean, in talking about the rewatch and also like revisiting Lena as a concept, I think is what this whole tour has been. A lot of us or a lot of the internet is rethinking of like how strongly we felt about a girl who has totally lovely titties in this show. Like, looking back on it, I was like, because we were very on Twitter at the time, like the outrage of her body, like, y’all haven’t seen A Parachute White Girl? Was that the whole issue?

 

Speaker 4 Yeah, right.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey A lot it you’d make me realize now that i’m you know ten years or fifteen years later like a lot of the issues on the show should not have been coming across the desks of people our age that are we are now the audience they felt so such a rage towards her that felt so unnecessary

 

Louis Virtel Well, you know what’s interesting is like in the book she was I guess quite thin when she was putting the show together And then they requested she put on weight because as I believe Jenny Conner said to her as recounted in this memoir The show doesn’t have an identity if you don’t weigh more I’m just like the demands placed on her in terms of what she should be on a show She created that she also is wildly in charge of even though she just has tiny furniture and a couple of short films before this is very, there’s an excitement to the wildness of it that she was given this opportunity after writing a one-page abstract for what the show would be, which by the way was ripped to shreds in the media, but she had proven through Tiny Furnisher what the shows would be I think. Still, it is just crazy to think of how isolating it must have been to put this show together, to come up with a show that you find real and representative of the life you live, which was a priority of hers, while dealing with very… Old-style demands of being on television, though it’s not even lose weight, it’s gain weight because that’s what we signed up for. Vivian, oh my god, you are on the right podcast.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I did that for you, baby. I was like, you know,

 

Louis Virtel Nita Aranda and that being the Ricardos was so good.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Like, you have to, why are you feeding me, Nicole Kidman? Why are you trying to make me thicker? Yeah, no, it’s, okay, it a lot. And I’m gonna be very honest. Because I was in my 20s at the time, yeah, people were jealous. Like, let’s all be fucking real.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like when a gay guy gets famous, it’s like, well, there’s only room for two of those. Exactly. So we all have to be pissed.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And look at yourself, a lot of things are timing and preparation and also privilege. All of those things are true. In the book, Lena is really fighting against the Nepo allegations a lot and her parents were working artists, I understand, and not wanting to step on their legacy. And your mom called one of the founders of UTS.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Like, let’s hold space, direct line, babe, through the second, third and fourth assistance. So like, let us maybe hold space for a lot of things to be true at the same time. What do you mean you delivered the pilot and it was picked up the next day? I would put a shot on somebody right now for that. She had a lot, there was a lot synchronicity and it wasn’t the stars a little bit for all of this to happen for her. And you know, I’m thankful for it. I think it really helped. Definitely affected the way I make art and the way think about how you can be as truthful as possible on screen. And I also am like, I don’t know if a lot of that shit she said online on Twitter was cool, even in retrospect, but we grow up.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah well her instinct is always to talk more and of course like that’s rarely going to be the mindset that prevents you from exactly starting a controversy but i will say it’s like i wish there were a couple more celebrities who just embraced that they grew up rich as in i don’t find it to be terribly offensive and in fact if you own it in a sort of fun way yeah like dakota johnson is who’s coming to mind and who by the way auditioned for girls

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, that’s the titular bangs.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, yeah, I just I just feel like there’s a venue to talk about this interestingly what we’re game for

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Her co-star, Alison Williams, has some of the best. The best?

 

Louis Virtel Of course.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey The best response is to it being like yeah, I grew up wealthy and I was around entertainment and on the lesser side of it It looked like a possibility. I never questioned the possibility on the better side of a gas some doors probably open for me I don’t understand that like reticence towards it because people are really responsive to that like honesty Yeah I got my first job in Hollywood because two three of my friends were working at the same company at the time And put my resume in on the same day and you have to own it It’s not the same as calling United Talent Agency, but it’s, you know, I was working at a major company. Shout out. But we also, in memoirs, also have realized the things that, in retrospect, that are still triggers for people.

 

Louis Virtel Mm-hmm.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Where it’s like we might have moved on, but they’re still like, I just also want to correct the record on this. And she’s not, she doesn’t correct the record on a lot of things. There’s a, you know, big incidents that she talks about, but for the, I just found it really interesting. Like that, that like recurring theme. And it just sounds like it’s still an issue possibly in her family. And she wants to make sure it’s on the record that she respects that their art is not, did not lead to her television show.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, also something that she spends quite a bit of time on in this is Adam Driver, who of course popped off after Girls. He’s a two-time Oscar nominee. He is one of our serious-est actors, except when he is doing an Italian accent, which has been three or four times now. And I want to say, I live in a resting state of rage about the choices he has made recently.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s Ford versus Ferrari and Oh House of Gucci father son. Yes

 

Louis Virtel Where Jeremy Irons was the worst I have ever seen him, and I’m including that one interview where he’s like, gay people, if we like gay people get married, who knows what will happen.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Jeremy Irons canonically scarred, my friend, a friend of mine said to me, scar canonically gay. And I was like, Jeremy Iron is just British. Right. And obviously has opinions to get to that. But, yeah. And prefers.

 

Louis Virtel And prefers a dark tea.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Uh… I got this train strange haunted little man uh… You know adam driver on the set of girls look i was every watch this penultimate episode of girls and when jessa and hannah say goodbye and and that they’re deciding who to apologize to who and she says we’re all doing our best it wasn’t great it was the worst best yeah and i think that that was a great summary of a lot of the stories and when it comes to have a driver In terms of Lina in general at that time, they that’s all they knew. That’s the only way they knew how to be to move forward And they got through it. I Have ongoing conversations with you and a lot of our friends of like how talented can someone be to be an asshole on set? Mm-hmm. I don’t think that I think the limit does exist. Yeah, I don’t I don’t

 

Louis Virtel Well, particularly when it’s so baffling. Like in this book, it seems like he’ll give her nothing. Say like, you know, he has these sex scenes with her where like he kind of improvises after she’s given him specific ideas of how to do the scene, like hold this kiss for three beats, et cetera. And then he kind throws it all up in the air and then it works and the crew is elated that it looks amazing, but it’s like still like going against her direction. And then later he’ll like just call her and be like, Hey Dunham, how you doing? As if. You know, they had this casual relationship and then later he’s unavailable and

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I mean-

 

Louis Virtel Like, is this self-serious or are you just actually a little strange?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I don’t know, I think as a 25 year old who dealt with 29 year olds at this time, not the best people. No, right. And so I think- And he comes from the military famously, and the rules are different. And then Julliard, where the same is- The other military. Yeah, exactly. So I think, and Lena talks about it, the fact that in her real sex life and her real dynamics with men, she allowed anything to really happen at that time. And so that seemed to have fallen in that lane. Whether that was part of the magic, part of the attraction, but also that friction made that relationship work on screen, I don’t know. But I think that we were expecting far too much from a 25 year old.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, yeah.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And

 

Louis Virtel Oh, this show could have gone away after one season, you know, I mean, whatever. You know, I mean, whatever.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And like, you know, honestly, big ups to Jenny and big ups at Jed Appetow. It’s like, there were load-bearing pillars around her, which she discusses with different amounts of grace. Yeah. But to really put a boundary with a co-star when the relationship on screen is based off of a relationship that was completely corrosive to her own self-esteem in real life, I’m not sure how she puts those boundaries apart at the time. And it seems like in retrospect, she still holds a lot of kindness towards him, but is also like, that was wild.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, it felt like she realized now in writing the book. Oh, I have to write about this. It was strange Yeah, that said if this show didn’t exist. What would be like the definitive? Millennial Chronicle on television like I struggle to think like maybe insecure

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But I mean, Isa, also a smart thing that Lina did is that her character is not named Lina. Yeah. Whereas Isa has spoken a lot about the fact that she wishes she had not made her character name Isa.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, interesting.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I think like Insecure was much closer to like my reality, but again, it was like with the movement of time when they were shooting the pilot of Insecured, it was outside my office and I knew one of the producers, hi Denise, and I walked outside and I just was like, look, all these black people looking good. What’s going on? It’s just like, this is our new show. And also another thing from Insecures is that they made them have a fourth main character so it can be four women because girls was going off the screen. Whether or not… It’s so hard because in both cases, people would say, this is too specific. Yeah, right. But I think black folk were a lot more allowing for the fact that like, thank God we have this. Thank God we’re seeing like this part of LA that we haven’t seen on screen before. There was a very homosexual cannibalization of girls where it was like, this not my exact path. So this is not what it’s supposed to look like. Yeah, white girls from Oberlin probably only hung out with white girls.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. I say this as a fan of Liz Fair, Oberlin’s queen.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly! It’s like, you know, the criticism, like, the voice of my generation or a generation, she fucked herself with that line. It’s funny, and we still remember it, but it did usher in a Like, okay, so this is the whole generation.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Well, it’s also just like people who are needed. The inroads to hate could find it rather easily with this. You just reminded me of Becky and Baker is her mom in the show who is so good. Obviously, a Judd Apatow alum from Freaks and Geeks. Well, I’ll say this. Yes. As a gay guy. Oh, really? The shows that actually make me feel like my friend’s dynamic is on the screen. I’m going to go with get ready. Veep, a show that does not have gay characters. But the way that this is, it’s not a show that was seemingly going for any version of reality in any way, but it’s all these people on one team who are united against an enemy, that is to say people who are running against Selena and the viperishness which they communicate with each other because one, they have actual contempt for each other, whatever, but two, they know they have to communicate on that slick a level to get the job done of being like. In this friend group, basically. I just kind of relate to it. Being a funny person is how I communicate, and so I find Veep to be shockingly real and kind of my girls. How about that?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Uh, someone just sat at a table with a lot of your friends.

 

Louis Virtel That’s pretty true, right? I see you’re weeping. I see your crying. Yeah

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean, look, everyone should be in therapy. I think that, like, yeah, that competition, I think, is very fair. On what field were you fighting for your life in your 20s, is, I think, a metric to look at what show connects.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah, yeah.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Is it just like you and your friends with love and like functioning? Is it like there are there’s a scarcity mindset and there’s only so many punch up jobs for Betty White for her hundredth birthday? You know, like how are we moving through it? I think that that like, you know, we came out of school in a recession. Yeah, like that’s also a huge part of the show that people don’t talk about. It’s like the most in her one sheet that was, you know, skewered.

 

Louis Virtel Which, by the way, was beautifully written. She recounted it here, and I was like, never mind, I would buy that TV show.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Like truly like and bit like people who are taught to be ambitious but have nowhere to put it You know feminists who cannot live their politics. I think we saw and we see to to this day people who live that way But yeah, it’s like this we were a generation that came out here with like the highest expectations in the most like overlooked accomplishment grids and then it was like You trying to work at Panera or what? No, I’m supposed to think I’m better than that. But are you? And like, and grappling with that while wearing a yellow mesh top, no bra.

 

Louis Virtel Also, it must be said that this show is also about creatives. So like that was part of, I think, what you and I related to as well.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, even though, well, also Shosh, like the thing that Shosh was supposed to go to law school was like, I don’t know, feels the most most connected ever. Every person who swore they were going to take the LSAT once they got out of college and never did. That’s my community.

 

Louis Virtel I also love that Shoshana was just not even supposed to really be a character on the show originally and she by sheer virtue of delivering this pure and unforgettable performance became a standard of the show is also so cool. Very Urkel if you don’t know that. Urkel not supposed to be on the original Family Matters then he killed in his episode they said what if we oriented this entire show around a guy in suspenders who has thing for cheese.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And had two tight pants apparently well

 

Louis Virtel Oh, always, yes.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Like, yeah, that documentary about that.

 

Louis Virtel And he took over so hard that he was like, no, I need an alternative character where I get to be hot now.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think that’s really funny. Stefan or Kel? Yeah, Stefan. I saw it close. That’s also funny.

 

Louis Virtel That’s also relatable to gay people. I was the nerd, but also now I work out and I now step out of a box and Boyz II Men music plays.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I saw a clip this weekend being like, remember when we were like, lose our mind because Stefan was on the show? And I was like, yeah, I was, like, ooh, who’s that fine ting that was it. Baby, he just took off the glasses. That’s the same haircuts. Yeah, that’s totally the same. It’s just he wasn’t and then we were like, oh right stick down

 

Louis Virtel And they also had that Maxine girl on the show who would be like who like she would like imitate it for the audience. Yeah

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, she and Laura had a whole

 

Louis Virtel Laura was so fucking funny

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey She was so cool and like, you know, also weirdly.

 

Louis Virtel Sardonic.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, weirdly a cop household a very strange issue. That’s very strange. Yeah, that was not my that’s not the show I connect to as

 

Louis Virtel And what is it technically a spinoff?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, wait, um, their mom was no shit. I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel Perfect strangers. Harriet worked in the elevator? Yeah, so weird.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I was like, I knew it was Harriet-based.

 

Louis Virtel But i did not intend to talk about family matters you know we have to tell you it’s been extremely terribly

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think it’s I mean like what’s the girls is now a comfort show. Yes. So got it back there looked at it. Um What are the comfort shows we had when we were kids when we Were teenagers when we Were in our 20s and now

 

Louis Virtel Oh, before we get to that, I want to say, do you have other favorite memoirs?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Other favorite memoirs? Um, I, I mean, Barbara’s, you know, we’re really hacking through it.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I mean that’s its own category. I literally didn’t even think of that even though it is definitely my answer.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think that, I mean, my favorite memoirs, Nora Ephron has her memoir, I Feel Bad by My Neck, and on the same panel, Diane Carroll’s memoir, The Legs of the Last to Go. The two of them talking about those, in contrast, while Oprah is just sitting there wondering if she’s gonna give them diamonds, it really was foundational for me in what was coming as a woman in Hollywood.

 

Louis Virtel The legs of the last to go. Have you heard that Vanessa Williams song where she sings the legs of last to go? It sounds like a threat.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I, Vanessa Williams currently, um, Delaware’s part of the musical. Oh, um. And is doing a lot of TikToks with her dancers that are very leg forward. And I’ve sent to a friend of our Steven Zimbari every time because legs is one of his favorite songs. Yeah. Oh my God. And that’s on Gay Delusion, baby.

 

Louis Virtel I was like, I’m gonna keep dancin’.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I love her, she once was very dismissive to me and I felt that that was exactly correct.

 

Louis Virtel Well, people with gray eyes, you can’t trust them. No, no, no. Nora Ephron, by the way, makes an appearance in this book because she mentored Lena for a second. Can I tell you something? Nora Ephron, a hilarious writer, like her in interviews, terrifying. Too in control and too knowing how to manipulate everybody. I just feel like I would be throttled if she gave me the time of day, but she’s almost too with it.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Or, Louis, are you triggered, because she also wears Tirol necks? She wears a beautifully chic ensemble. Yeah, no, Nora Ephron was… I found her memoirs early, because I just was like, who’s this lady with a beautiful haircut who talks to Meryl? And I want to be closer to her. That’s, I feel bad about my neck. Yeah. Yeah. And she, well, she appeared on an episode of Oprah with, it was about memoirs and being of a certain age. She and Diane Carroll appeared on the same episode. Oh. And I remember watching that, and they were both dealing with change in different ways in how Diane was like, I, look how fucking fabulous I am. And Nora was like no, we have to hide. And I think that set me to go buy both memoirs. And Diane Carroll’s is, Diane Carroll’s is also one where she was like let me tell you about this Negro who pissed me off. And it’s like yes, very, very tea. Versus Nora was yes, my first husbands were flops, but here’s a recipe for beautiful soup. And they serve different purposes, but in all of them, I think it was an entrance to Hollywood when I wasn’t here yet, and like women who seem to be still fabulous and to know that they made it through a lot of things and land on the other side, which was really inspiring. And I didn’t know I would need, but I did need it.

 

Louis Virtel I would love to be invited to the dinner party, but it’s sort of like, it’s like Fran Lebowitz where I appreciate the wit from afar and I don’t, I feel like there’s a certain distance there that works. I don’t know. I will never meet Norah Ephron. She’s not with us anymore, but just know that this is constantly on my mind.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean, I think, you know, when people do the like, who would you like to have dinner with? Dead or alive? The one person who’s never changed for me is Mike Nichols. Oh, of course. Because, by the way, can we solve ourselves if he’s gay? I think he just, you now, wore a wig.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, first of all, being married to Diane Sawyer, dang. Second of all the love, the taste in what he picked, like the acuteness of picking actresses, the acueness of like, like just understanding theater. I’m just so interested in him. And I love the book by Mark Harris, of course.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, Mark Harris’s book, I think, you know, that’s one of those where I couldn’t put it like I was, I was like traveling, like I went to Puerto Rico with that memoir. Like I could not put it down because how fabulous it was. But yeah, like that was a life lived hard. And by the time we knew, by the I found out who Mike Nichols was, it was for the Angels in America mini series. And then you go back to the filmography and I was Oh, come on taste!

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, Working Girl, Silkwood. Exactly. And by the way, lots of flops. He’s somebody who has one of the most interesting filmography, I mean, he starts with Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf and the Graduate, but then after that, he still has Day of the Dolphin, Catch-22, it’s like, there’s no such thing as being prolific and even fabulous without having lots of time to fuck up. Like, he gets down in the dumps in that.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Well, that also is probably because that man did not like saving money.

 

Louis Virtel No, that’s it.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And I think that’s, if we were to plot the longevity or the specifically tasteful careers of folk and then also speak to their business managers, if the business manager had their tea together, all those pictures looked good.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, there should be a version of like memoirs where in the margins, you see, like, hi, I’m the bookkeeper.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, like where were they? I mean, Mark Harris’s book talks about it.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, I also, reading Lena’s book too, it’s like, sheet drops so many details of like, every line is littered with, you know, this kind of hookup or this thing went awry. It’s like so specific, whatever, that I almost want second and third sources to come in and be like, that detail’s crazy or whatever, because I’m so impressed by the level of detail she put. Sheesh.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I mean, she has that little passage at the beginning being like, I try to, it’s also because it’s a memoir about someone who is dealing with dissociation. So that’s an unreliable narrator. But she does talk about like, I looked at my phone and pictures and asked people and I tried to like match the events and she did a profile where she’s like, I remember all the coats I wore during these periods. But, yeah, it’s- Take it with a grain of salt, but memoirs are not listicles. They’re not fact listicles, they is from a perspective. So whether or not that has been changed with time, we don’t know, but read this, because it’s crazy.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, the acknowledgments for this book though. It must be said about Lena Dunham. She’s the kind of person who’s constantly like allaying her fans and like being like, don’t be so mad at me, like here’s what’s going on. But then she does start the book with a list of acknowledgments that goes for Gene Seberg, Gene Harlow, Marilyn Monroe, Jane Mansfield, Amy Winehouse. I’m already so overwhelmed. It’s how is this for Amy Wine house?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I texted, I started this blog.

 

Louis Virtel Liam Payne, I’ve now said the words Liam Payne.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Oh, God, it’s she encompasses all times, all periods, all platforms of life and lived. But I did text that picture to a picture of the first page to Louis as I started the book being like, OK, the delusion is still here. I think that that’s I think is what is kind of fabulous when you someone who has been a little kooky with time and the way that they have presented themselves then comes back with like a soft, measured voice. I always find really fascinating because then you are like is the crazy still in there? Yeah, and this page a little push and pull. Yeah, this page was like no, I’m still in here. Yes, right. Don’t you worry I have a lot of stuff animals

 

Louis Virtel Don’t worry, I’ve just spotted the words Lisa “Left Eye” Lopez. Oh my God, it gets so dark. Dana Pallado, the girl from Different Strokes Who Died. Okay, I get Fame Sick, whatever. Gilda Radner, yes. Talk about a memoir that is impossible to read. Okay, this one, the like audio book Grammy, like she possibly won a Grammy, Gilda Radner for this book. And it’s about her life, but it mainly is about getting cancer and her time with Gene Wilder and stuff. This is a book about doctors constantly being wrong about how sick she is. And then three weeks before she died or the last word, she’s like, well, it’s been fun. And some poems don’t rhyme and some lives end like this, basically. I cannot think of a more devastating read. That is the most devastating book you will ever read.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think to be, and what I know about Gilda Radner is she dealt with ED and a lot of other things through her life, and so for someone, and that signals someone who is unsure of their worth. And Lena also talks about being unsure that she deserves things, to admit that she wanted to be famous and go in the Met Ball was something that she felt ashamed of. And in the same time, to live in that uncertainty and to be certain something’s wrong with your body and everyone not being able to find it. Has to be like a type of pain that i a m thankful most of us will not understand correct all right now she really does

 

Louis Virtel Correct. Oh my gosh. She really gets into the isolation of being stuck with like just baffling symptoms like and it’s never just one thing It’s always things compounding. So no that is very well illustrated in the book and then eventually Like an actual sickness it takes over the book. Yeah

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey just need to say this, we need to stop making people come to work sick. It’s fucking crazy. I’ve had friends like on set running through like tunnels in diapers. I have friends like in on IVs trying to get a draft in. It it’s unconscionable. And like, especially as we’re moving forward in a industry where they’re like, what if robots can do your jobs, people are going to want to prove that they are worthy even more. But it’s not like we’re losing the humanity of it, and like… I had to have a medical procedure and because I have a control issue, my friend picked me up from set and I went back the next day and laid on the ground for 48 hours. And then we went to Disneyland. I had a great time. But the day after the procedure, my ass should have been home, but I was so afraid that people wouldn’t see that I could do my job while being a woman. I went. And it’s just not worth it and we’re going to keep doing it because of capitalism and I hate it.

 

Louis Virtel I hate it. It really is frightening. Like there’s no way to just voice, like I need this time for myself, even though you’re allegedly a lot of it. Yeah.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Allegedly is so strong. Can I go grieve the loss of my family member? Can you fly back? We really have an early call the next day is a wild way to live. And that’s one thing I’m really impressed by Lena of expressing that resentment towards that.

 

Louis Virtel These years later. Yeah, this is an essential book. I think it’s I like it better than her first book.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I definitely like it better than the first book.

 

Louis Virtel And it’s so well-written, I so enjoy it.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, and she did an interview where she mentioned she doesn’t really talk about like her artistic inspirations in this book And Lena says because she would have to be a whole nother book girl make the deal Yeah, like I have already watched two documentaries. She has mentioned on this tour I want to hear like how does this brain in somewhere in trop sure get to where it is Yes, that would be really fascinating

 

Louis Virtel She also talks about how like her creativity has been like a kind of guiding force for her and like To get even deeper into that because again, she just like was off and running it like 2020 running around with the softies early on That would be fascinating again. Yeah, we will be right back with Tony Goldwyn.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel My next guest is simply everywhere. Most recently in the Oscar juggernaut one battle after another. You can see him now in Law and Order and Hacks, both airing now. I could keep listing credits, but I want to talk to him too. So please welcome the great Tony Goldwyn.

 

Tony Goldwyn Thanks for having me.

 

Louis Virtel I’m so psyched to talk to you. I love going to somebody’s Wikipedia and I am immediately overwhelmed. Like there’s no if and or but, you are in everything and belong in everything. It’s my favorite kind of person to interview. Let’s start with Law and Order. First of all, you’re working with two people I love who are Maura Tierney and the great Reid Scott who played Dan on Veep, one of the underrated comic performances ever. Now he’s on. Uh… Barter tell me about this cabal of people this iteration of law and order and what it’s like working with this company

 

Tony Goldwyn Yes, maybe we have such an amazing cast. It’s it’s pretty incredible. And this is a this version of Law and Order has been on. I think we just finished our fourth or fifth season. It’s my third. But it was Law and order went off the air for like 10 years, which was a foolish decision of NBC. And then Dick Wolf came back in force with as many shows on the air. But. This one, you know, came back initially with Sam Waterston reviving his role with the wonderful Hugh Dancy as the assistant DA and a wonderful, you know, newer actress named Odelia Halevi. And we kind of, you know, they sort of have built the cast over the past few years. Sam retired and then I came on board to sort of fill those big shoes. And yeah, we just, and each year we kind of added cast members. So Maura joined us, rejoined, I think, right before me. And then more came on the year after me. And we just, it’s just a superb group of actors. And then last year, a fabulous English actor named David Adjea kind of rounded out the cast as Reed’s partner. And so they’re the cops and we’re lawyers. Hugh and I, no, we’re the lawyers. And it’s great. It’s as good as ever, man. The scripts just get better and better and audiences still seem to love it. And, you know, 25 seasons into Law and Order.

 

Louis Virtel They’re finally getting the hang of this. Yeah, right. Well, I mean, like you’re somebody clicking into, you know, uh, a serialized drama yet again, uh clearly this is a zone where you belong. I think you will forever be associated with scandal. Does it feel like at all? Like you’re reliving those days being on this show or is it a totally different sensation?

 

Tony Goldwyn It’s a totally different experience. Um, you know, it is really nice doing a series. Scandal was the first long-term series I had, I had done. Um, and, uh, so in that sense, it’s similar, but Scandal was just such a unique animal. You know, It was a, it was a groundbreaking show. It was brand new idea that with so many things that had not been done before and shone the style of. Writing is just a whole other, it’s its own universe. And then the group of people that was a, this is an amazing cast as well, but that was more like discovering all your best high school friends that you’re gonna be friends with for the rest of your life, having this crazy adventure on this very kind of groundbreaking show. So Yeah, now I’m sort of stepping into something that’s been well established and carrying the mantle on that’s carried by many people before with some really awesome colleagues.

 

Louis Virtel I was a fan of everybody who was on Scandal, but then when I saw Bellamy Young absolutely throttle Celebrity Jeopardy, something happens to my heart when people are great at trivia, and she was just like one of the great performances on that show ever.

 

Tony Goldwyn Oh, I missed that. But yeah, we had a few. I know she did it. And I think also Josh Molina was a great show person and Dan Bukatinsky, I think, as well. So I think there are several trivia types. Not me. We just did that sort of like drinking games at Scandal Get-Togethers.

 

Louis Virtel Now, it’s funny you mentioned Dan Pukatinsky because I was listening to your podcast with your daughter where you are basically talking about the industry as a whole And the entrepreneurial spirit it takes to basically survive nowadays Dan Bukatinsky, of course is now doing the comeback again Yeah, and I was wondering what portrayals of the industry you value as a viewer like that That seemed relevant to you as somebody who I now I guess, you know with your daughter is commenting on the industry all the time

 

Tony Goldwyn The practice I’m doing with my daughter Anna, far from the tree, is really what we’re doing is interviewing other parents and children who work in the same business. So it’s not all about show business. We’ve interviewed activists and politicians and journalists and writers and all different kinds of people. We just got fascinated because Anna’s a screenwriter, so that’s an important part of our relationship. And I’m the third generation of my family in show business, so we thought that was a really cool way to talk to parents and kids. So, but. In terms of shows about show business, I mean, both Dan Bukatinsky and I are on hacks. Right, yes. Which to me is like such a brilliant, heightened, but also so real, skewering of show business and the entertainment industry in such a great way. And then I thought the studio was the same thing. I just loved the studio and it felt as outrageous as it. As it was. You know, I remember people in Washington telling me, Scandal’s not that far from the way it is. And when I watched the studio, I was like, pretty close to some of the experiences I’ve had. And then, and seriously, yeah, what we’re doing on hacks is pretty dead

 

Louis Virtel Tell me about shooting on Hacks because I’ve heard the shooting style of the creators of that show, Lucia Aniello and Paul W. Downs. It’s like people described it as kind of like freeing and spontaneous, but also a bit meticulous. Like they want you to try it a bunch of different ways and they’re, you know. So how do you approach these scenes? Some of my favorites are when you’re going just head to head with Gene Smart on that show.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, it’s, you know, the way Lucia directs most of them, I think Paula directed one or two that I had done, and then Jen, their other partner. Statsky, yes. Statsky, the three of them work on everything together. Every, after every take, they have to go and have a decision about, you know they make all decisions together. But Lucia is the main director, and the way that she works was new for me. She has like a voice of God, Mike, and so she sits by the monitor away from the set. And all of a sudden you’ll do something and you’ll hear the cheer go, okay, hold on, do that again, but say it this way this time, or try it this line, or do that or again. And so she directs, so you hear this voice, you’re like, whoa, and they also don’t really rehearse. So they’ll set up all of the shots and the scenes. And typically, for those who don’t know, generally what you do, the routine is, you’ll come in and have a blocking rehearsal where you’ll talk about the scene, rehearse it, figure out the staging, make sure everyone feels good, and then they’ll. Set the cameras and do the lights and goes and gets ready. The way that they work is they do everything ahead of time and the actors don’t even come to set. So then they go, they’re ready for you and you go to set and you haven’t rehearsed, you just shoot. Maybe you’ll go through it once, but only if the camera needs it. So you just start doing it, which is, you gotta go, okay, that’s what’s up. But then it’s very spontaneous. And I kind of, at first when, again, typically a director will say cut. And then they’ll come and talk to you like, well, maybe try it this way or that way and have a little bit of a polite conversation about it. And Lucia’s just like, as we’re rolling, Tony, okay, go back and do that again. Let’s try it one more time and try this line, you know, or something. So at first it’s a little disorienting, but then I loved it because you just have to kind of go. And comedy’s not, you know. I’ve done some television comedies, but that’s kind of not like mainly what I’ve been done. So. It was really fun and to work with such comic genius actors as Paul and Gene and everyone else on that show.

 

Louis Virtel When you’re in that kind of flow state shooting like that, just in that ongoing way, is it hard to know when you’ve nailed it? You’re like, did I do it? I don’t know.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, you just don’t, I’m just like, okay, hope you’re, I just had to trust. You can see me.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, trust them. And sometimes, you know, you’re like, yeah, that we got that. And then they’re so supportive, you know, they were like, they, they’re just great. So they make sure everyone, everyone feels good about it, really, I think that was my experience.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of characters with a villain streak. I mean your performance in one battle after another. It was simply bone-chilling and The minute you appear, you know, like something’s off and then like it gets worse. It’s just like that classic kind of I don’t know it reminds me of like Night of the Hunter or something like oh my god It gets worse and worse the deeper you go like meeting some of these people But talk about getting the call from Paul Thomas Anderson to play this part and how could you key into this character immediately because it’s Virgil Throckmorton part of the what is it the Christmas uh Christmas

 

Tony Goldwyn Christmas adventures.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, which is a misnomer, is just one of the most memorable characters in the movie.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, I mean look, Paul, at this stage of my career, the thing I really jump at is any time to work with one of the greats, whether it’s a great actor or a great director or a, you know, great writer. So to get a call that Paul was interested in me for this part, I was like, oh my God, yes. So, you now, at first we just kind of talked about it and… I didn’t, I didn, you know, I wasn’t allowed to read the script until I was involved. So they just sent me a couple of scenes and we had long talks about it. And I guess my, generally when I play evil characters, my approach is always like, well, what’s the not evil part about this person? Like what, how do you play against that? And then when I read this script, I realized, oh, the way into this Virgil Throckmorton. He’s everyone should want to be a member of his club as far as he he’s got to be so charming and winning and wonderful and just like an all-american guy great guy you know great guy who you think that when Sean Penn was desperate to be in that club I wanted to feel like well who wouldn’t want to be on this club and then when you hear the insane things that come out of the character’s mouth then it’s dubbed all the more kind of horrifying and then you know as we’re doing it we’re realizing this is not that far from, like… This exists in our society. You know, this is, there are, this Christmas, you know, Paul’s, it’s satirical, but it’s also, what’s great about it is it’s terrifyingly plausible. And so then I was just thinking, well, like, who are those guys who are not that different, honestly, to the character I play in Hacks, Bob Lipka. Who’s the head of the media empire that owns her network. You know, Bob, in my view, was just a guy who’s really good at his job. And yeah, he’s ruthless. Yeah, he also was incredibly charming and able to be very seductive. And sometimes you go, he is a great guy. And then he does something, you’re like, oh my God, that was completely evil what he just did. So it was sort of similar with Virgil. That’s the fun of a character like that.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a perfectly calibrated performance, just even like the tone of voice, but I’m wondering, do you change your performance once you realize what Sean Penn is doing in the movie, which is, you know, one of the most eye-popping, strange characters, Lockjaw? Like do you have to change what you do when you meet who this character is, who is like beyond a comic book character?

 

Tony Goldwyn No, that’s a great question. Cause when we went in for our first rehearsal of our first scene, which is the scene in the hotel suite when he’s sort of interviewing to be a member of our club and I kind of discussed with Paul and decided, you know, what my approach to Throckmorton was, which was pretty naturalistic. You know, pretty like, like I said, you know, I just wanted him to be the most winning. I have to feel like everyone wants to be a part of our elite society. Well, of course you do. So And then I see what Sean’s doing when I first rehearsed, I was like, Oh shit, that’s a big swing, but it’s Sean Penn. So I thought, wow, man. And then, and then I kind of thought, Oh, that perfect. Like, I’m just going to do what I’m doing in against that. And then and you know, and then you had Jim Downey, who was my kind of sidekick. Right. So for those who don’t know,

 

Louis Virtel SNL veteran, yes.

 

Tony Goldwyn Jim is like one of the legendary SNL writers and Jim is one of these guys who’s not really an actor and yet everything that comes out of his mouth is hilarious just because he’s got this deadpan delivery and so you have this odd character of Jim interjecting in his way and then there’s me as kind of the host of the thing and then There’s Sean doing this crazy Virgil Throckmorton, which he deservedly won an Academy Award for. So the dissonance of that was, I thought, just amazing. So I did not change my performance. I thought what I was doing was great in the face of something where Sean was making such a bold choice.

 

Louis Virtel Truly. Yeah, no you not kind of reacting to the extremes of that character makes that character even more real like you’re assured in yourself

 

Tony Goldwyn And it’s absurd. So like in the last scene that we have before we send him to his demise, you know, when we’re, we’ve caught him. And I’m talking to him like, can you just explain to us what’s going on there with this woman? Did you have an affair? And there’s Sean with his face completely rearranged. I mean, he looks grotesque and yet none of it, we’re just having a conversation. Like it’s, you know please, Colonel, would you please explain this to us? Cause I really don’t understand. And he’s there. It’s just absurd. So, yeah, that’s what just made me laugh.

 

Louis Virtel That’s not the only best picture-winning movie you’ve been in recently. You were also in Oppenheimer a couple of years ago, which has one of the, not just strongest ensembles, but just like a powerhouse. Like everybody is like their own chapter of entertainment history in this movie. Talk about getting involved with that and working with, I mean, that caliber of people.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, it was the same thing. I mean, Chris Nolan was like Paul is one of those directors that everyone would kill to work with. So the way that one worked is I got a call saying Christopher Nolan would like you to play a part in his new movie. We can’t tell you what it is or what it’s about. Uh if you accept then um you know and then you can go read the script and so i said what they said well you’re playing a u.s senator and they tell us it’s a good part but we don’t know how big or small the part is but you just need to say yes and then and then you can read the scripts i was like yes of course.

 

Louis Virtel The only available answer, yes.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, so then I went to Universal and sat in a room, I had to sign an NDA and read this like 300-page tome of Oppenheimer, which was a work of genius. It was just an amazing script. I play a rather small, you know, a smaller character in the thing, so I was like going, wait, where’s my part? But it’s sort of scattered throughout the script, but what was incredible aside from getting to work with Chris and just watching, you know, as a director myself, watching a master at work is such a, it’s worth everything to have that experience. Every day this parade of actors, like I had the privilege of in that film, I’m the chair of this hearing committee that is throughout the film, you flash forward to this hearing that ultimately stripped Oppenheimer of his credentials for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. And, uh… So I chair that, I’m sort of a functionary in the movie, but all these people come throughout the film and testify before this committee. So every day it was like Matt Damon, Casey Affleck, obviously Killian testifying, Emily Blunt testifying. God, Benny Safdie, so all these different, David Krumholz, who’s such a fabulous actor. Pretty much so many people who were in that movie came through our room and so that was really thrilling to just. Be a part of this amazing ensemble.

 

Louis Virtel That also is my favorite part of that movie, because it feels like, because we never get things like this anymore. It feels like a 1950s courtroom drama suddenly. Like you suddenly feel like Lee J. Cobb could be on the stand or something. Did it feel like you were making an old classic movie, something that Spencer Tracy would have been in?

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, totally, like Jason Clarke’s character, who’s the sort of attorney who’s kind of prosecuting him, right out of like a Lee Jacob, it’s a Lee Jakob character right there.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right, exactly.

 

Tony Goldwyn You know, so it did. It had that feeling of like 12 angry men or something. And I think that’s what Christopher was going for. You know there was very few special effects in that film, amazingly. It was all done kind of, you know, in camera and old school. And yeah, I felt very lucky to be a part of both those films.

 

Louis Virtel Now, I have to raise concerns about the film Ghost. And the reason is, once upon a time, now I’m like an elder millennial, which means that I grew up with movies like Ghost being played constantly on TBS. There’s like a whole, like a collection of movies that were unavoidable growing up because they were played in cable in some way, whether it was Comedy Central or HBO or whatever. Ghost is one of those. Like if it was Saturday, Ghost was on. Do you feel like there’s less like availability to the movie Ghost now because people are less likely to watch movies on TV. I’m concerned about this generation knowing, I feel like Ghost is holding on. Like people know, you know, know it as a Patrick Swayze movie, as a U movie, as a Whoopi Goldberg movie. But I feel, like, movies that came out exactly in 1990 are what’s in danger of kind of going away now because we have less visibility towards them.

 

Tony Goldwyn That may be true, you know, in some sense, everything’s much more available because you can just get it at the, you know, push of a click of a, you know, an icon or whatever. Whereas there was something about those movies that played over and over and over again, and you could always count on when you were surfing through, like when I was a kid, it was like there were only a few stations, so it would be on, you know, the Channel 9 movie or whatever, but when, by the time you were growing up. Through the 90s and 2000s, those movies were on cable all the time. So you’d click them on, there it is, and people, Ghost was the kind of movie when you’d on it, you’d go, oh, I’m gonna watch Ghost. Like you’d see it, so people see it over and over and again. So I don’t know, you know, people still seem to love it. It holds up, and people talk to me about it almost every day, so it’s one of those iconic.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s a relief to me, if that’s the case, I’m glad to hear that.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, no no no, I think so. I think it still holds up, but I don’t know how these things work now in the streaming universe.

 

Louis Virtel And also, you’re being honored with an AmeriCares award. This is an organization you’ve been involved with for over 20 years. Tell me about receiving this and how you’re feeling about it.

 

Tony Goldwyn Yes, so Americare is a humanitarian or health-focused humanitarian disaster relief and development organization. And what we do, I’m on the board of it, and I’ve been involved for over 20 years now. Americare’s work in 90 countries worldwide, in addition to free network of free clinics around the United States, basically responds to disasters and works in communities either after a hurricane and a war. You know, fire, tsunami will go in and be first responders bringing needed medicines, medical personnel, and training to communities in crisis. And then what we’ll do is we will stay in those communities and help them build out sustainable health infrastructure so that they can just be sustained. We don’t just come and leave. And, um… So, it’s a model that just works extraordinarily well and efficiently and is transformative because when you have health in a community, you’ve got education, people can go to work, they can do all of the things and without health, communities are just in permanent state of crisis. So, that’s the model and it’s an extraordinary organization and the way that we do it that I’m working with. Local partners on the ground. So we have partners all around the world. So when we come in, we have deep relationships. And as opposed to being sort of paternalistic and implementing something, we have a constant dialog where people can design their own needs because they know what the needs of their community is, as opposed an American organization coming in and telling them what they need. So tonight is, or not tonight, but this week is our annual gala and kind of. Amazingly, they’re honoring me with this award. That’s the Bob and Lila McCaul, the humanitarian spirit award, which they were the founders of Americare’s. And I just started honoring the work that I do with with Americare and other organizations that I’m involved with, like the Innocence Project or the Motion Picture Television Fund, or, you know, a number of different, you know not for profits that I put my time and energy into. And I’m very humbled to have be singled out in this way.

 

Louis Virtel Well, thank you so much for talking to us today. And I can’t wait for Billion Dollar Spy, which also comes out soon. Oh yeah. Is there anything you can sort of tease about that?

 

Tony Goldwyn Yeah, the quick thing of that. It’s Russell Crowe plays. It is a true story about a Russian spy who worked for the CIA. It was a CIA asset. He was very high up in the Soviet bureaucracy. He was a scientist who helped develop the radar systems for the Soviet military, and he held a secret grudge against the regime. Because they had brutally murdered his wife’s parents and he took the opportunity to try and take down the regime and he filtered secrets to the CIA that were game-changing and really helped us win the Cold War. So this is a movie about his story and a young CIA agent who’s this handler played by the fabulous young English actor Harry Lottie. And I play along with Justin Threw and Rufus Sewell. I’m the head of the CIA office in Moscow. And Rufus and Justin are, we all kind of work together as CIA agents who support, you know, trying to get this guy’s information. It’s a really terrific script and hopefully, I haven’t seen the film yet, but I’m sure it’s going to be a wonderful film.

 

Louis Virtel You’ve said the name Harry Lottie, which reminds me I am behind on industry. I must catch up. But anyway, Tony Goldwyn, thank you so much for being here. It was lovely chatting with you today.

 

Tony Goldwyn Okay, great talking to you. Thanks for having me.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you to Tony Goldwyn, Law & Order, and Hacks, both air Thursdays on NBC and HBO respectively. Also listen to Far From The Tree wherever you get your podcasts. We’ll be right back with more Keep It. And we’re back with the meanest part of the episode. Ugh, I’m already disappointed in us. It’s Keep It. Rheeqrheeq Chaney, what are we keeping this week?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey All right, my keep it is to the summer house reunion not dropping for another month. Broadcast news, we don’t need to have normal drop dates anymore, just drop it now. Okay, so Louis, so summer house is a show about summer. I love it so much because I love summer and houses. Okay. These people, there’s a scandal going on where one new soon to be divorced woman is fucking a man who her friend used to be in love with. With this a little bit. So on last Thursday, the entire cast filmed the reunion. It was a 12-hour day in the wake of all of these scandals being released. On the next morning, audio from the reunion hit the internet. It blew it up. People were losing their minds at like whether this white woman will take accountability. Spoiler, she does not. But over the weekend more and more drops have happened and we’re hitting the point now where I think we just have to just let the reunion air. It’s a month away and I don’t have patience anymore. I need to hear the friction between everyone about whether or not when they went to Salt Hanks for a sandwich, that was part of the affair. A month does seem so long. It’s giving the Academy Awards. Exactly, we have four more episodes of the season. I don’t really care about the men’s drama. Like I understand that Carl and Kyle, yeah, I’m sorry, they’re both in Carl and Carl. They’re having a physical fight that keep being previewed. And I think it’s about like an investment about a soft drink cup, I don’t know. But it’s really, we’re in the thick of it right now. Andy’s upset, everybody is accusing everyone of like having a phone in their pocket. And like, just bank the other episodes and drop the reunion because the. Mass hysteria around this has hit like unprecedented levels. My friend had a child 21 days ago and she’s still on Reddit. We need to just get the footage out there. And like initially this keep it was gonna be to like men who make women feel embarrassed. I was gonna talk about like Megan Thee Stallion and that claymation ass fucker who treated her wrong or the woman who’s not being treated well. On this show, Sierra Miller, who is the finest ting in the world. And somehow this graham cracker crust of a man in a scarf has made her feel that she is unworthy but no i think that we have to stop being attached to dates where t b comes out just let the t b come out sure every summer i google is every summer every three summers i google is house of dragon coming out six p m eastern or western i’d never know what comes out is always at four p m at some random asked i’ve just drop it We don’t live in a linear time. Anymore just give it to me because it’s the only thing that will get me through the next month.

 

Louis Virtel This show, Summer House to me, is like Project Hail Mary recently, where everybody I’ve ever met had seen it or read it, and they just weren’t talking about it. And then suddenly the movie comes out and they’re like, oh yeah, we’ve all been talking about. Like, what is the conspiratorial nature of this? Is Summer House a show where people have kinda liked it for a while and now it’s exploding?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I think that there’s been really big romantic dramas over the last couple of years. There’s an inter-house engagement that fell apart. There’s this woman, Sarah Milligan, who is truly gorgeous, falling for a white guy on the show, which then brought up interracial dating on TV and especially how black women are treated on Bravo. I hadn’t watched a single episode of it before last June. And you know why I watched all of it this year? Because God knew I needed to be ready. And I think thats.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But yeah, I think people have like, you know, and you know we know about secret single behavior. I think there is secret reality TV watching behavior and only when you whisper it into the moon at night you find a friend who’s also doing it. And I think that’s what happens.

 

Louis Virtel It just seems like everybody I know like I truly like I thought we were all just watching old episodes of Cisco and Ebert together I was incorrect.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey That’s not exactly what, yeah, and it’s so stupid. And it’s like, they’re like, I think this is some of the best character work on television, which I find really interesting. Also like some of the really, the rawest portrayals of like current alcoholism that we have on TV that they’re still allowed. Oh, up to date. Yeah, exactly, and I think that’s why people are like secretly into it. But they’re at the same time in classic shapes. Like the woman who is sleeping with her friend’s ex. And by the way, the rule, if your friend has ever cried to you about a man, do not suck his dick. That’s all it is. It’s a classic rule, but she broke it. And this audio has her losing it at the fact that anyone wants her to be accountable for just being a shitty person. And throwing back her other friend’s words when she said, I thought you said that you can’t help who you fall in love with. And Sarah mentioned that in terms of interracial attraction and bullying online. She has become the worst shape of a white girl with fragility ever. And I need to see it in 5K. I want it so badly.

 

Louis Virtel Is tough. Yeah. And other episodes to air. Wow.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I really can’t care.

 

Louis Virtel Also, by the way, this was filmed during a summer, right? So this is like years old drama.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And that’s also, like, the structure of the show is really stupid. It’s like RuPaul. Yeah, yeah. It’s really silly because they have to shoot, they shoot it in Montauk every summer and they don’t air it until the winter. So there’s so much that goes on in the background, which I think must be hard for the cast. At the same time, it’s like the internet, women on the internet have hit sleuth-like levels and piecing together the timeline of this affair or incertious hookup. But the best part about this is The internet now thinks that the person who figured out who dropped that tape is Jennifer Lawrence?

 

Louis Virtel Wow, who was in a movie on Montauk, No Hurt Feelings?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s all it all comes back together, but yeah, if Jayla No, no hard feelings. No hard feelings Gus Hickey’s favorite movie If Jennifer Lawrence you figure this out, please make this a plot point in the Miss Piggy movie I don’t know how but this like feels like oh, yeah connected

 

Louis Virtel I forget, we’re getting that, the Cola Scola.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, her and Emma and Jack. Emma Stone coming up with a Miss Piggy thing. Yeah, I think Miss Pig- I’m thinking about it. I think Ms. Piggy as a fixer for Caucasian audacity I think would be really amazing.

 

Louis Virtel I just pictured her as the star of the movie Molly’s Game where she’s like running the poker game. Yeah, but like she’s endangered

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jessica Chastain as Miss Piggy as Jessica Chastein, but that’s my keep it!

 

Louis Virtel All right, my keep it this week is not as complicated as yours, nor strained. It’s just, I’m just a little bit confused. My keep it is to this new song, Runway by Lady Gaga and Dochi. Here’s the thing, if only Dochi had put it out, I think I would be fine with it, or if Dochi collaborated with, I don’t know, Doja Cat, anybody. Lady Gaga doing a song called Runway in the Year of our Lord 2026. We have done this 70 times. We were marching to Babylon, whatever that song was, of chromatica, any of the songs on art pop, and you know, like the Donatella’s, et cetera. Lady Gaga’s the kind of artist, or maybe specifically the pop artist, when she repeats herself, it makes me groan, because she is so originality-oriented. Even like Abbracadabra, which is like the best case scenario of I’m doing the greatest hits, but a new version of the greatest hit, still makes me think you must be a little bit bored. You know, it’s just, there’s a feeling of boredom coming off of a project that sounds like three iterations ago of Lady Gaga. I do appreciate in the video, another throwback of hers. She has yellow hair like in the telephone video.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yes, yes, yes.

 

Louis Virtel And I’m actually surprised how kind of loud and it’s a gaudy video, really.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Does she have to have yellow hair when she’s standing next to a black woman? Something to look into. Um, I, yeah, no. Okay. So my question to you is, for the.

 

Louis Virtel This is by the way on the Devil Wears Prada 2 side.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, so the devil wears product comes back. We’ve the internet makes it so that the devil was product comes right? Isn’t that exactly what you want? Don’t you want Gaga as like some sort of character version of a millennial? Who loved the devil worse product 20 years ago?

 

Louis Virtel You make a compelling argument. I just feel like the song should be better. I’m just not feeling the dance club into a runway sort of thing. It just feels a little bit too, I was gonna say like old RuPaul music or like Queer Eye season finale is like a specific genre of pop song.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But as someone who also just admitted that you felt most connected when within the obscure erotica played for Madonna. Like, I. That’s sexy music. This is not a sexy song. This is not the purpose of this song. No. And I think that’s the hard part for it, where it’s like we were not gonna get like innovation and like moving the needle forward. Like as evidenced by the fact that the merch for this movie is available at Target. We’re and I’m sorry Stanley Tucci and how we should not wear it to 10 set. That’s a crazy line in that in the thing. And Eileen, Eileen you should think about what you did. But we’re really dealing with the fact that like we have brands buying in to be in this film. We have like musicians like aligning their legacy with it. Like there is a lot of corporateness.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I mean, like. I mean like take out of it the fact that now Anna Wintour is part of the whole thing

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey It’s crazy!

 

Louis Virtel I mean, think about when this movie first came out. This was like a blistering book about how this one person, and it could be nobody else, it was Anna Wintour, was wretched to work with, and also in certain ways, a little bit of a fraud. And now, in this iteration, she’s on the cover of Vogue with Meryl Streep.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Mary Louise, wearing that wig, she looks so good. But like, do you think Meryl’s pissed about that? Do you think, oh, I have to deal with this? I think Merel is, she at the house, you know? She went around the world, and I don’t know how many times we’re gonna get her to, like, really go to Seoul again, so I think that they’re, I think everyone had a lot of meetings about the fact that this is, like sponsored by Condé Nast.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey And, and that kind of is what it is. I trust Eileen Brosh McKenna to write.

 

Louis Virtel Beautiful script. As Guy Branum said when he was sitting here, that is the thing I’m most excited about. I think her writing will make this great, even though the previews for this movie are my least favorite thing, which is to say, an expensive movie that looks cheap.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I was worried about the color correction, but I’m hoping everyone pulled it together, David Frankel. And I will be singing at Thursday at 6 p.m. With a couple margaritas. But yeah, no, I think- I have to go.

 

Louis Virtel I have to go to Barefoot in the park at TCM Fest, and so I have to see The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Friday. On Friday?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But I’ll have information for 24 hours!

 

Louis Virtel Know right and you’ll have to put it on the thread and use the invisible ink Oh, that’s going to be tough for you. It sucks for me. It sucks.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey But anyway, yeah, my company is named after this movie. I’m very excited. It’s gonna go, I mean.

 

Louis Virtel I hope everybody brings it. I mean, look, I’m a fan of literally everybody involved. You’re a Meryl Stan, I am a Maryl Stan. And by the way, I guess she’s like on the fence about being in films, so I have to be just excited, period, about her coming back.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Baby, she is not wearing two braids in the one building where the murders happen. We are winning right now. Yes, yes. And I think that, yeah, we have to, you know, the Met is now sponsored by Amazon, but it’s always been sponsored by big money. Fashion has always been like a part of an institution that makes, you know capitalists feel like artists. This is an extension of that and we just can see the names of the branding happening in real time. Whereas when we were kids, we didn’t know we were being pushed towards to buy Prado sunglasses.

 

Louis Virtel This is also the rare case that you know exactly what we’ll be talking about in next week’s Keep It, which is, Deborah has brought it to you, and the Met Gala, so look forward to that.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Have fun, guys.

 

Louis Virtel Rheeqrheeq Chaney, if we want to find you on social media, because I feel like you socialize well.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Yeah, I am r-

 

Louis Virtel Where can we find you?

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey At ReSquared, it’s a lot of, as mentioned, me watching documentaries from my living room, and I do need a new coffee table so if anyone has any ideas.

 

Louis Virtel Boom, that’s R-H-E-EQ squared for everybody looking her up. Thank you to Tony Goldwyn for being here and for being Tony Goldwyn. God, he is so good in One Battle After Another.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey He’s really, I think, you know, one of our best also in Oppenheimer.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no, he’s two best picture winners for this bastard.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey Exactly he is he from ghosts to just gorgeous god bless

 

Louis Virtel Look at you writing Vogue content for Tony Goldwyn.

 

Rheeqrheeq Chainey I’m trying to.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll see you next week on Keep It. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Caroline Reston, Kendra James, and Lindsey Gomez. Our team includes Matt DeGroot, Rachel Gaewski, Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, Mia Kellman, Jay Banks, Charlotte Landis, and Jordan Cantor. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.