Share This Podcast

Louis Virtel is joined by Guy Branum to discuss the Canadian magic of Martin Short and his new documentary Marty, Life is Short. Then, Louis and Guy chat about The Late Show with Stephen Colbert ending and what that means for late night television. Plus, friend of the show Mandy Moore returns to chat pop music and her new movie The Breadwinner.

TRANSCRIPT

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel. I thought we’d have a great episode today, so I thought, why don’t we have Guy Branum back? Hi, Guy.

 

Guy Branum Hello, good to be here. Always pleasure to be at Keep It!

 

Louis Virtel I always get real animated with you. I can’t explain why. I think it’s that you know everything, and that excites me.

 

Guy Branum We like to talk about the same things, and that’s fun.

 

Louis Virtel Yes no again we will be doing this whether or not we’re recording it’s actually not fair to to monetize what we do.

 

Guy Branum Yes, but the thing is, is we’re both busier now than we were 10 years ago. And so we find ourselves at Ackbar having these conversations less.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Speking of being busy. You were just at the Stop That Train premiere, which is the new RuPaul movie directed by our friend Adam Shankman.

 

Guy Branum Yes.

 

Louis Virtel It’s one of these, it’s sort of a mock, it is mocking like old disaster movies of yore, the Irwin Allen movies, which were star-studded. So every queer person of note is in this movie.

 

Guy Branum No. It was really exciting. I mean, the best thing about it was just not being excluded, you know, if everyone is going to be there. But like, it’s got, you, know, Jujubee and Jujubinge are the stars. You have so many amazing queens from Drag Race, and then you have so many amazing queer comedians like Drew Droege. And then you have so many like straight comedians who came to play like Paul Sheer and June Diane Raphael Like it’s so much fun, and it’s about a storm of gonza And a runaway train and the possibility of a hotel for dogs and Laurie Metcalfe being killed at the end Okay, see now you’re gonna see that movie right Now it’s like you think a comedy in the theaters. Can it work anymore? Is it technology? We’ve lost like Roman concrete.

 

Louis Virtel That’s right. Well, I keep thinking about the world’s greatest comedy, Anyone But You, which we all saw in a theater. And you can’t deny those numbers, Guy. Truly, what was the last blockbuster comedy that we all saw? Like The Devil Wears Prada 2, which was a funeral for journalism.

 

Guy Branum Uh… It was like i was really proud and impressed at The Devil Wears Prada 2.

 

Louis Virtel Me too. I. It’s 7 out of 10.

 

Guy Branum Like I thought it was the hardest task possible to take the most beloved film imaginable and build another film on top of it. And I thought that David Frankel and Aileen Brush McKenna did such a good job. No one remembers Miami Rhapsody enough.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I barely do.

 

Guy Branum Yes, yeah, it’s David Frankl’s like 1990 rom-com with Sarah Jessica Parker That is them like it just reminds you how sexy and funny a film used to be able to be And I just I worry that everyone thinking that rom-cams are Hallmark movies and Netflix versions of Hallmark. Movies have made people not realize what Nora Efron was capable of doing

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right. I also, I love Nora Ephron so much, I’m even interested in the flops. Have you seen Mixed Nuts recently? Oh, I saw Mixed nuts in the theaters. Thank you very much and have seen it recently. This is what you get from Keep It The Podcast, people who saw Mix Nuts in the theater.

 

Guy Branum But that’s not what Stop That Train is. Stop That train is really in the vein of Mel Brooks. Like when doing the pink carpet last night, they were asking questions about comp movies and so I brought up Poseidon Adventure and- Oh yeah, Towering Inferno, et cetera. Yeah, that kind of thing. But I also think that there was a queerness to Mel Brooks in his day. Like, there was like- Oh, giving Mel Brooks something to do as queer. Yes, and also just sort of like a gentle like- but I would say like a bisexual energy that we now see in stamp town and modern clowning. You know, just sort of a like, I’ll put anything in my mouth kind of game.

 

Louis Virtel I’m sorry, the world of Connor’s story and clowning being something I now have to consider as part of an actor’s journey, I’m just not there yet for me, but I allow people to, you know, go to small theaters in Los Angeles and try out their

 

Guy Branum instincts, baby. I’m too far right now. Yeah, I’m too far.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, you went to a clowning class last time you were here. I have to get to my clowning

 

Guy Branum I took a clowning class. I recently did a roast for clowns.

 

Louis Virtel Thank God

 

Guy Branum if anyone could use that you know truly but like the amount of food that they’re throwing at their audience is also they love to climb over a theater seat off i’d love to claim over a theater

 

Louis Virtel Call that Roberto Benigni. Now, speaking of comic legends, before we get into the episode today, and I just want to say our guest today is the magnificent Mandy Moore returning to Keep It, friend of the Crooked Network, first of all, but also friend to us, great energy, love Mandy Moore.

 

Guy Branum The thing I, I just have so much respect for Mandy Moore because there have been so many iterations of her and she’s somebody who has succeeded and thrived in so many different aspects of this industry that it is just like, almost in like a classic Shannon Doherty way of just like nobody’s gonna stop you. And yet also.

 

Louis Virtel So if you pry enough, she’ll get, like we’re both one time Emmy nominees and she’s like, I will beat you to two.

 

Guy Branum Love it yes you love the aggression yes you really are only a one-time nominee I feel the same way yes like um what are you only one time see but also one for one baby

 

Louis Virtel I want to say recently, Gwyneth Paltrow was nominated for an Emmy in Loss, but she was one for one there and as an Oscar winner, and I was so into that. I love not losing.

 

Guy Branum Like um her being one for one as an Oscar winner is really crazy like Lewis and I love talking about the Academy Awards too much

 

Louis Virtel And I have another comment on that regarding 1992 in a second.

 

Guy Branum But just like it was a classic trope of like the 50s and 60s of the ingenue winning for her very first film Yeah, Audrey Hepburn or on her first nomination Julie Anders Yes, and it is funny to me that when it was like sort of the last person who got that experience

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Well, we actually have had a second coming with like a Mikey Madison or Brie Larson.

 

Guy Branum Honestly, I kinda try to forget a no-

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I thought it was it was good. It’s just I we didn’t have any other competitors really in that race I guess I wanted Fernanda Torres to win, but anyway

 

Guy Branum Yeah, I mean there were great people up that year and it was a very fun movie. I always wondered what if Pretty Woman were three hours.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I love of when you Gene shallot me. I wanted to say, you brought up Sarah Jessica Parker in the early 90s. People really need to revisit the pre-sex in the city. Sarah Jessica, Parker, an Oscar nomination that should have happened is Sarah Jessica Parker in LA story, a brilliant LA character, a parody of a character who lives in LA. You never see her, like Sarah Jessica Parker will never do a zany role again. Please check this out. She is so funny in that movie. It’s a Steve Martin movie.

 

Guy Branum I’m about to bring up I just want to say Sarah Jessica Parker in footloose saying I don’t think all these dogs are barking is one of the core things that made me gay

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay. I love her and girls just want to have fun. Yeah. And by the way, she had the full Carrie Bradshaw persona when she was 16 years old. Yes. Wild. Okay, speaking of Steve Martin, we both also just watched the Martin Short documentary that has come out this week. Can I tell you, normally I would kind of rebel against these sort of puff piece documentaries that just tell us that we were right for loving a beloved comedian. I’m sorry, if you are a funny person. And you have only funny friends, it is always right to make a documentary about you. I’m sorry, every time it is worth it. That John Candy thing we got like a year ago, it’s like, oh my God, lacerating, because everybody here is so primed to give good interviews, which is part of being a comedian, and they’re so insightful.

 

Guy Branum It’s so wholesome, just sort of like we have so many stories of comedians who love drugs too much or this or that or were big personalities or were mean or whatever. And this is about a community of nice people who wanted to be nice to each other. It is so Canadian. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. It is.

 

Guy Branum It is a documentary about introducing Canadian-ness to others. Yes, and the thing is, it was made by Lawrence Kasdan, who directed The Big Chill. Well, I mean, that was what was really funny about three quarters of the way into the film. Oh, Kate Capshaw? Kate Cappshaw says, you know, it was that strange situation of, I’m friends with all the guys, and Stephen was best friends with the girls, and Larry, didn’t you make a movie about that? And just sort of, like. Wondering what it was, you know, Lawrence Kasdan, who directed these great movies, who wrote so many of the Star Wars movies, why he decided that his friend who was still alive was somebody that he wanted to commemorate and explore. And like, there really is an interesting element of tragedy in Martin Short’s past, but also a very interesting way of responding and reacting to it. But I think just sort of realizing the way that like, Martin Short’s wife lived down the street growing up from Eugene Levy’s wife and her, like, and Nancy’s brother was married to Andrea Martin. And these people, just seeing all of these videos that Steven Spielberg is taking of all of those people with all of their children, just being at a lake in Muskoka, Canada.

 

Louis Virtel No, it is White Motown. It’s like when you hear the stories of like Barry Gordy is by Diana Ross And she lives down the street from Marvin Gaye and all this stuff. Whatever. It it’s very interesting I was thinking about the singularity of Martin Short as a performer because honestly About 100% of his characters are in some way gay coded Yes Who what other straight person has ever been like that where the energy is a little bit of like a flutter and A twinkle in the eye and also making fun of the audience being obsessed with you

 

Guy Branum Like, no, I mean, honestly, very L.A. Modern clowning that like, Ed Grimley, all of these characters are always a little bit looking towards the audience. Like his breakdown of how the guy from, there was this film that they did about novelty products that were killing people on SNL in the 80s. And it was based on a chain-smoking makeup woman that they had at SNL. And him explaining that process and also her realizing that it was about her was just one of the great joys. But earlier this year, I, with the great Lindy West, had a conversation of just like, why is Jiminy Glick the fat suit that we’re okay with? And it was like general agreement and it just the sense of joy and fun And that, like, yeah, like… M-Marty, uh, yeah, you just love him!

 

Louis Virtel Well, also there’s something about Jiminy Glick, and I’m glad that Jiminy Glick has had a renaissance on TikTok in some ways, like every once in a while a clip of him making fun of a celebrity pops up and people seem to really get it. My favorite thing about him is, and this also harkens back to my favorite SNL sketch of all time, Morning Latte with Will Ferrell and Sherri O’Tary, it’s what he’s doing is making fun of the familiarity an entertainment host has with celebrities, except his familiarity is we both know you’re full of shit race and the way that the familiarity forces the person listening to have to agree with them while they are being insulted is so brilliant. I’ve never seen that done before. And I just want to say the highlight of my career as of right now is I was watching this documentary last night, Martin Short, and I forgot that at Kimmel, Jimmy, Jiminy Glick hosted for a day. Oh, wow. I wrote a line in this movie that Jiminy said. That’s very fun. While he’s interviewing Bill Hader. This is why I directed this whole conversation, so I can brag about that.

 

Guy Branum I mean, that is a true middle-aged comedy writer experience.

 

Louis Virtel It’s just sort of like, oh Jesus, I wrote that. Yeah, no, right. No, it’s like writing, because writing for Kimball is like writing for a newspaper. You have to put something out every day. Who knows what got on the air?

 

Guy Branum Okay, one of the best experiences I ever had was, um, I was working for a week. Um, it was a blue sky room for hacks and Susie Essman was there.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, who’s written on everything, and you all know her from Curb Your Enthusiasm.

 

Guy Branum Yes, but I was finally got to the point where I told her what she meant to me and I was talking about the Oprah she was on and now I saw her and she had this joke about brisket and Suzy Esmond’s response was, I was on Oprah?

 

Louis Virtel Right, you just have to go and do things, trying to survive, et cetera. My one insight into the Oprah Winfrey experience is one of my best friends, one of your good friends, Diablo Cody, was on Oprah during the Juneau heyday, promoting Juneau. And she said that you kind of didn’t know when you were on the air or off, except that Oprah would take her shoes off during commercials, but then put them on when they were filming. But you were like, wait, are we talking? Because it was the same either way. She’s talking to you.

 

Guy Branum And they just knew to zoom in and zoom out. But also we can’t talk about this Marty Short documentary without discussing the fact that like, every time you get a reaffirmation that Tom Hanks is as nice as you want him to be.

 

Louis Virtel Because he’s so into typewriters and I just want to hate somebody who that’s their whole thing but it’s like he and his wife have a lovely relationship I will say you know my my beef if you will with Tom Hanks is I hated the performance as mr. Rogers because I’m sorry if you’re gonna play mr. Rogers it really should have been Martin Short because honestly he was a little gay

 

Guy Branum Like that we never gave did Martin short ever get anything that was a jerk Like a gesture at a respectable dramatic performance other than like damages or something. I was gonna

 

Louis Virtel I was going to bring up damages because I believe Martin Short still needs the Tom Cruise and Magnolia performance that reveals the real dark, you know, like the Robin Williams death to smoochie thing, where it’s like, there is darkness to what he does. The glimmer in his eye is very knowing and a little condescending. I want that explored.

 

Guy Branum I mean, and the documentary is really good about giving you a very alcoholic dad, like a real run of deaths in his life. And also the way that everyone is consistently describing, it doesn’t matter what bad thing happens to him. He just gets up the next day and keeps going. And there is like a darkness behind that. But also let’s very briefly just discuss like Catherine O’Hara in her mid thirties and what a level of beauty and charm that was.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, jeez. No, I mean, there’s a lot of Catherine O’Hara footage in this movie, and I’m sorry, it’s painful. I mean just even like her insight into Martin Schrute, like, she has that Canadian thing of wanting to describe someone she loves, but immediately exhausted. You know, just like, oh, God, you talk to him and he enters the room and it’s just so lovely. You know that kind of thing.

 

Guy Branum Catherine O’Hara’s eulogy in Toronto for John Candy.

 

Louis Virtel Don’t even bring this shit up. This is one of the greatest clips you can ever find on YouTube, it’s part of the John Candy documentary. Catherine O’Hara talking about John Candy, it is the best eulogy I’ve ever heard. And I’m including that fucking John Henson eulogie that will make you shoot tears perpendicularly from your face.

 

Guy Branum But the other thing I wanted to say is that, so famously the Stonewall riots happened on the day of Judy Garland’s funeral. And there’s always this like debate back and forth about whether it was one of the factors that impacted things. And on the David Catherine O’Hara died with everything that has been going on politically in this country, I was like, I get it. I like, I get being like, okay, this is the thing that makes me have no hope anymore. Yeah

 

Louis Virtel God singular what out of one person I’m so glad we got that performance in the studio out of her at the end too because that had the drama in it and the Comedy and she’s capable of both. Yeah, you know, anyway, I’m sorry I can’t believe that’s not the whole episode But anyway, as I said, we’ve got a great show for you today guy And I will be talking about Stephen Colbert’s final week with The Late Show Hopefully our ample late-night experience will help us in this conversation Then my friend Mandy Moore will be here to talk about her new movie the breadwinner.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel This week, after 11 years and nearly 1,800 episodes, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert comes to a close. Last year, CBS announced that it would be ending both comedian Stephen Colber’s run and the Late Show franchise altogether after 33 years. Colbert inherited The Late show from David Letterman, who originally hosted from 1993 until his retirement in 2015. Colbert’s tenure was marked by its earnestness and depth in the sometimes cynical, usually lighthearted, late night landscape. What do you think Colbert brought to this space? I remain shocked at the pivot of this show. That he began, you know, on the Colbert Report, I mean, accepting things like Strangers with Candy, et cetera, as one of the crazier and biggest swings in comedy that totally worked. And then knowing he could still pivot to a place of, as we just said.

 

Guy Branum Like, the elegance and sophistication of the show was what he brought, and it was really interesting having David Letterman on his show, because it was sort of the question of what’s the thread that remains there? They’re two very different comedic voices, like Letterman was so edgy and sometimes like mean or off-putting to his guests, where Colbert was a whole lot more welcoming and a whole more lovely, but I think it was sophistication. It was. Like, Stephen Colbert was the guy most likely to have on a novelist.

 

Louis Virtel That is true, yes. You could count on him to actually be invested in who was sitting across from him. Right. And I think also additionally my favorite thing about him is the questionnaire he would do. Yeah. Because I’m just obsessed with, one, good interviewing, knowing you can get a good interview out of an interviewee. Yes. And, like, I honestly think there is a hole in pop culture from where inside the actor’s studio.

 

Guy Branum No, it really gave you that feeling of, inside the actor’s studio, I will sometimes just watch a YouTube run of a bunch of Colbert questionnaires, because it is such an interesting insight into people, seeing the different ways that people approach what number am I thinking of. Before the end of this run, I do want to know what number he is thinking of, but I feel like he was able to take this absurdism that he had had from his sketch days, from work with Amy Sedaris and Paul Daniello. And from the Colbert rapport and really expand it and be in himself entirely on that show in a way that like only a really seasoned performer can. Also, just the beauty of the times that Amy Sedaris came and guested on his show, truly magnificent. There’s nothing better than when your host is scared of someone. Yes. Meryl Markow coming on Letterman is one of the great acts of violence that has ever happened. This is David Letterman’s ex-girlfriend who had created the show with him. Who came on with a love letter from him in case he decided to get too high-handed with her magnificent, but just Amy Sedaris ran that show the minute she showed up and it was always.

 

Louis Virtel David Letterman for being, you know, the kind of cynical, eye-rolling guy in a show, and most clips I’ve seen of him since, like I just saw that the magician who did the White House Correspondent Center, Ose Perlman, like do a bit with him. He is like a self-conscious guy. Yes. In a way that like someone like Stephen Colbert is not. I think we underestimated the sort of Security underlining a lot of what he did

 

Guy Branum I’m going to say line between stand-up and improviser.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah

 

Guy Branum Like, I think improviser-slash-sketch person. Wow, standup is an insecurity thing. Yes, and it is, and your persona is an ossified thing that is kind of distant from, like, it has varying levels of proximity, but like what Stephen Colbert did, and I think really showed on this show in a way he didn’t anywhere else, was how much complete control of every aspect of himself he had. He could go big absurd, but he could also roll it back to sincere and be really comfortable with that. The Colbert questionnaire and the questions that would come at him, like, this is a man who could honestly tell you what he made for dinner last night and not turn it into a joke.

 

Louis Virtel No, you know what he kind of reminds me of a little bit? And I was just thinking that I miss this host in particular, probably the greatest TV host of all time, but I also think the greatest game show host of all time. He almost has that Dick Clark control of volume and like he can slow it down enough that you’re leaning in and it’s not boring. I don’t know. It’s like an old broadcaster trick somehow. Like all these hosts once upon a time, game show hosts too, Alex Trebek included. Came from radio. Yeah, and he obviously he didn’t really come from radio but he has that vibe of like I’m leaning in to listen to what’s happening and the laughs are comfort

 

Guy Branum There were interesting times that he, like the monolog was always an interesting place for Stephen Colbert because there were times when it felt like he had approved a joke that he was funny and he loved, but like wasn’t the right joke for his voice. Like it really, I don’t know, maybe it was like, he frequently did a monolog that required him to go to very different perspectives and voices during the course of a monolog, and I thought that that was interesting compared to somebody. Like, uh, Jimmy Kimmel, who just, like, is more of a stand-up and has more of a sense of-

 

Louis Virtel Even though he’s not a standup, yeah. Right.

 

Guy Branum Seems like it.

 

Louis Virtel Well, speaking of coming from radio, by the way.

 

Guy Branum Um, but it was like, you know, I am not the biggest fan of what The Tonight Show has become. Uh, like, Julie Klausner, I think, hit it 10 years ago when she said, when did The Tonight show become a children’s birthday party? Um, and Colbert kept it sophisticated and made it comedy forward, but also just that, that very 70s feeling of you’re going to have an elegant evening.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, kind of Dick Cavett. Yes, very Dick Cavet. Yeah, and also sort of like him, like he would court, you know, the Trump, like Trump is a confrontational person. And I feel like he resisted the confrontational nature of being a comic in a way that, like, for instance, Jimmy Kimmel really leans into. But at the same time, it’s like, he sort of used that sophisticated thing to sort of weave his way into a counter-argument. I thought was impressive because in another way you could call him reticent, but he’s not reticente. He wants to say something

 

Guy Branum important. Yes, like the death of these late night shows is such an interesting reflection of the our hunger for monoculture and the death. Monoculture like these late-night shows, when it was just the tonight show, this is where we got our clips. This is where like water cooler talk was clips water cooler. Talk was us discussing the things that had happened the night before on the tonight’s show and where we conventional wisdom and that kind of thing and the way that Like, I mean, Trump got mad at Kimmel and Colbert for being places where resentment of him could crystallize and criticism of him, could crystallize in a place that wasn’t politicized, like as clearly it was a dinner party.

 

Louis Virtel You know, or cocktail party. I mean, this seems like such a basic thing to bring up to someone like you, but I always so resent people who say that they hate that the late night host got political. It’s like, first of all, in order to talk about whatever is happening in the world, like you necessarily have to wait in. If you watch any old clip of Johnny Carson, he was talking about presidents constantly.

 

Guy Branum Yes, and like I think all of them, like even The Daily Show, which is sort of the most conventional wisdom progressive kind of thing is still trying to take things down from both sides, which I think has its own issues. There’s nothing I hate more than the Malcolm Gladwell article about what’s wrong, or maybe it was a radio story, but it’s about what wrong with the Colbert report. Oh God. Yes, he is basically arguing that by being ambiguous and having it be unclear whether Colbert agrees with or disagrees with what he’s saying, that makes it bad political comedy. And it’s like, Malcolm Gladwall, I don’t think you’ve done 10,000 hours on this. Like what makes it wonderful is that it was something that people could approach. From every angle, but was possibly pushing them to see things in a new way. There was something really beautiful about that. And I-

 

Louis Virtel And dangerous. Yeah.

 

Guy Branum Yes, and it was something I really loved having Colbert at both speeds, because the deeply political and deeply caricatured Colbert rapport, making the way for this warm and lovely and very sincere Stephen Colbert was nice. And by the way, I still think about him.

 

Louis Virtel 10 Month Strangers with Candy. There are only a few television shows in history where we never got a second one of them. Right. Like, there’s no heir to that show.

 

Guy Branum Yeah, and also having a perfect articulation of what Amy Sedaris does.

 

Louis Virtel Surrounded by the people who should be surrounding her. Yes, and which she clearly chose. Yes, I’m very fascinated by people. Her friend, Kola Skola comes to mind, who don’t lean into what they’re supposed to be making ever. They just make what they want. And then if it works out, it works.

 

Guy Branum Um, like, no, the danger of who the world wants you to be and the refusal to do that, I think the best and most dangerous kind of comedy is when you are coming so close to who the word wanted you to, uh, Gilda Radner doing Linda Weiss and, uh… No, Rhonda Weiss in The Rhondettes. Oh, yes.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes. You mean the punk singer and stuff?

 

Guy Branum No, no, no. This was her sort of like girl groupie, 1960s.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right, yes.

 

Guy Branum Uh, none of my friends went to Vietnam. They all went to law school. Like, uh, like really great. Uh, and Taylor Tomlinson’s last special really is a very similar kind of like, the world wanted me to be a Christian comedian and I am instead this queer comedian. And this is what that means to me. But like we also, I, I want to give respect to the fact that Stephen Colbert really worked to when, um, replacing the 1230 show, uh on CBS. Create a space for a female host in in late night in after midnight and i really appreciated respected that and also i think taylor tomlinson jumping out of the exploding helicopter of late nights just before it explodes i think was amazing and brilliance.

 

Louis Virtel Uh… Also just enjoy her in general. Yes. How do you feel about the online space taking, like taking the mantle of late night and that, you know, we still do get to watch like funny people interview funny people. It can be a podcast, it can be whatever, a YouTube show, it could be like one of these, you know hot ones type things. Are you satisfied at the conversations we get out of them that we used to get out out of a David Letterman, out of Johnny Carson, etc.

 

Guy Branum What’s funny is, now the clips are the seven minute version of the interview. You know, it used to be you only got those seven minutes after the pre-interview with the producer, and now you watch Amy Poehler do the entire hour and a half. What bothers me is we’re missing the jokes. Like, you know, I don’t hunger for celebrities to be playing very, very scripted charades with my hosts. That’s something that. You know, Jimmy Fallon is doing and I don’t think we need more of it.

 

Louis Virtel Can I say something about that show, though? It is hard to come up with new games. And the people who write those games on that show that is impressive. And a lot of those things can be sold as their own game shows. And instead they’re just being filtered onto this show.

 

Guy Branum Refillable buckets on a late night show are the hardest thing to do, but I think the refillable buckets that are funny, that have space for jokes in them, I like more. And I just, you know, I think Seth Meyers works really hard to be very monolog forward with his show, but I would sort of like topical jokes. Like, basically, like, for a period of time, Twitter was where we got our topical joke. Oh, I miss it, yes. Yes, but like having. A team of 15, 20 people, the thing you do every day, writing topical jokes on something is something I miss. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I have to say, as a writer, it is just so pleasurable. Yes. You know, like to, first of all, maybe it’s a sort of ruse you’re putting on for yourself, but like, it gives you the impression you’re keeping up on everything. You know? Like getting just like, having to write a few jokes, even if you don’t care about whatever the topic is.

 

Guy Branum But it’s such a good exercise. I wrote some jokes for Chelsea Handler for the roast I’m not telling tales out of school She’s she’s mentioned it but just sort of the lovely thing of going into a document and writing some jokes because you’re supposed to and then Just keeping going because you like and what you’re doing, you know

 

Louis Virtel It’s really fun. One time, I wrote something for, Busy Phillips hosted something. It was an after show of an award show. Maybe the Globes or something. Actually, it might have been the Oscars. I don’t know. But I was in a word doc, and some other cursor was following me, and I wasn’t paying attention. And then someone let me know it was Tina Fey. I was like, I can’t be here. It was like a horror movie. That’s the most. I was, let me leave.

 

Guy Branum I was like, let me leave the room. That’s the most fun.

 

Louis Virtel That’s really cool. But it was like, but also it’s like when you’re typing in a document and other people see it, suddenly I’m the worst typist. Yeah. Suddenly it’s full, I’m writing a ransom note and there’s blood on my hands.

 

Guy Branum We have answered the question of these late night shows being too expensive and a little bit bloated by going to televised podcasts like the one we are on right now. And is there any way of getting to a middle space where you have more production value, but it isn’t what it once was?

 

Louis Virtel I mean there just should be more like those podcasts that are for people that help people with ADD that are literally 15 minutes long there should be more brevity because I think the forcing people to keep it short yes is what we miss right because like the quick laughs you get on up in a late night interview with a few jokes and then we throw it a commercial I just think there’s an economy to that that really works and it’s like for I like Amy Poehler’s podcast, but like I something about editing past the long laugh really hits for me. You know, again, maybe it’s just I’m impatient. Maybe it’s I don’t feel like I have the time to listen to people actually have a real conversation. But the forcing people into just quicker moments, I think, gets us more like…

 

Guy Branum Wanting to feel a little more curated and there was a way that I think like publicists and Producers kind of sucked the life out of some of what a late-night interview used to be like there used to Be some chaos there and now yeah, there’s like not enough intensity for chaos I do want to acknowledge the fact that Colbert had bet Midler on last week in an homage to her final uh she bet miller was the final guest on john carson’s tonight show and it is one of the great one of the truly great late night performances of all time and

 

Louis Virtel One more for my baby and one more for the road or whatever that song is called. And she did not sing When Beneath My Wings as people guess.

 

Guy Branum No, and it was, somebody was bringing it. And I think that that’s what you sometimes miss on a televised podcast, is getting a real sense that somebody is bringing it, they have turned on their A game. And yes, watching people hang out with their friends is fun, but having a little bit more of a panel-y sense of, and you’re on baby.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I would like. I so admire anybody, any guest on a talk show who comes in with a little bit of a bit. Like I have to say, that’s my favorite thing about Meg Stalter. Like if she comes on Kimmel, it’s like, maybe I’ll dress as a pageant contestant and have this whole bit. It just, it’s so nice. It reminds me of like a brilliant award show presenter. Just coming in with an idea, a thing they want to do that gets us past the obligatory pattern they have to read.

 

Guy Branum Yeah, I mean, like, award shows really are the canary in the coal mine of this thing, of is it going to be scripted and dull and boring, or are you going to take this very structured thing and put some life into it? And everyone has the option of, like… There was just this Gen X sensibility of like, oh, promotion is stupid. And that really let celebrities think that they were allowed to hate the process of going on talk shows. And I mean back to Jiminy Glick. Like, Jiminy Glick really is this celebration of… The worst in what a local or entertainment correspondent is capable of bringing to a junket. And like, Jiminy Click also says, but think about how fun that could be. And, you know, people not realizing just what a fun experience a late night show could be is unfortunate. And I think like, Hubert, Kimmel, like these guys love the form and so I love them for that.

 

Louis Virtel I honestly think if Jiminy Glick came back just as a show with, I just feel like people are craving that, that it would, like, heal a lot of things, because it would give you a bit of a celebrity interview and yet also well-edited comedy, you know? I mean, it doesn’t need to be an hour and 45-minute extravaganza like this podcast every week. I’m part of the problem, I want to say. You know, Jiminy Glick.

 

Guy Branum Louis, you are also bringing a keeping snappiness alive. Like you are-.

 

Louis Virtel No, I’m hoping to, yes. No, sometimes literally, yes, recently I was home and my brother asked me to do something and I was like, I don’t do chores. He goes, wow, you really just snap. I was, I can’t believe I’m this person either. Yes, no, yeah, the brevity is what I’m most concerned about, I just feel like we’re in a universe that everybody has an attention deficit disorder. But at the same time, everyone is so fucking long winded. How can we solve this? We all don’t wanna listen to each other that long, so can you keep it brief?

 

Guy Branum They don’t understand. The young people do not understand preparation. Right. Like-

 

Louis Virtel I guess that’s what it’s about.

 

Guy Branum Yes, like the notion that someone could come in with an agenda or clarity and that people aren’t just saying exactly the thing that they want to say at the moment. I don’t know though, saying the thing you want to in the moment can be very snappy and good. Yeah. Like, they just are long-winded.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, it’s very time consuming for me. Anyway, thank you to people like you for keeping it snappy, too. You always got a clipped soundbite guy. I know this is going right on the Instagram. Anyway, Stephen Colbert, his last week is this week. Kimmel is actually taking the Thursday off. Oh, that’s beautiful. And all the other talk shows are as well. That’s beautiful! It’s very, very lovely. We still have a meeting on Thursday, though, so I don’t really get time off, it sucks. I just came here to complain. Anyway, will you be watching the final episode? What do you think he’s gonna do? Please let us know. We’ll be back with the fabulous Mandy Moore.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel Joining me today is a fellow podcaster who co-hosts her own show, That Was Us, but she’s obviously most known as an international superstar singer and actor. She’s now starring in the new film, The Breadwinner alongside Nate Bragazzi. The movie is out in theaters May 29th. Please welcome back to Keep It, the fabulous and endorphin-giving Mandy Moore.

 

Mandy Moore I am so happy to be back. It’s been years. It’s too long. I think it was 2019.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, Mandy, it’s disgusting. I mean, it was seven years ago. You’ve had literally two albums out since I’ve seen you last.

 

Mandy Moore And three children. Two albums and three children!

 

Louis Virtel Right, and an Emmy nomination I believe also, yes.

 

Mandy Moore Yes, sir. Yes, Sir.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, we’re both in the one-time Emmy nominee club, so it’s

 

Mandy Moore I’m vying to beat you one of these days. I’m like, I got to get one more nomination than Louis. Just one more.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, honestly, it’s on. I’ve been looking for like, you know, a vendetta to fuel like my EGOT path and this will help.

 

Mandy Moore Okay, I’m down. I’m going to be your rival.

 

Louis Virtel Damn it, okay, all right, now my mind is set. Okay, we’ll start with the film career you have always been thriving in. You have a new movie, The Breadwinner. First of all, this is a movie filled with funny people, and my question to you is, working with that many funny people is it great or so annoying?

 

Mandy Moore It’s great. As a non-funny person being around like a group of crazy funny people, I did find it challenging just like not laughing. That’s my, you know, that’s my plight as the non-funny person in the scene. So I had to like go to some really dark places of like don’t laugh, don’t be the one that breaks. That’s always my greatest fear. If someone else breaks first, then I will definitely break, but I didn’t wanna be the first one. But yeah, it’s like Colin Jost and Caperland and. Nate, obviously, and Kumail Nanjiani, Will Forte. That guy is so, you just like look at his sweet face and you start laughing. Like there’s something about him.

 

Louis Virtel No, he always plays it down too. Like he knows what he’s doing is funnier than what he is giving out.

 

Mandy Moore Yes, correct, correct. And he’s like the funniest person in the room by far.

 

Louis Virtel What was your take working with Nate Bregazzi, who by the way, I obviously saw him host the Emmys and I know he’s like a famous name, but it’s occurring to me that he taps into a part of America that is like enormous. Like this is somebody who’s like just a huge voice for like a lot of America. What was it like working with this guy and in this movie where he basically turned a lot of his standup into the film.

 

Mandy Moore Yeah, he helped write the movie. I agree with you. I was a huge fan of Nate’s. I had seen all of his, like, Netflix specials and stuff. But I hadn’t seen him live until last weekend. I went in LA. He was playing the Intuit Dome. I had never been to arena comedy before. I don’t know if you have. It is, like a while. I’m like, wow, I’m here with 19,000 other people. And we’re all laughing and he has the entire crowd galvanized. I’m like, that is a superpower that I can’t even begin to wrap my head around. So yeah, it’s like he taps into something that is universal, like in LA, if you can play two nights of 20,000 people a night and then you’re going to like Syracuse. That was the crazy part of making this movie with him too is that he would film all day. This was his first movie. He had never done a film before. And then on the weekends, he would go and play three stand-up shows and then come back Monday morning to be on set at 7 a.m. It was truly heroic what she was doing. I’m like, you’re gonna get exhausted. You can’t do this with every film, just so you know. But Louis, you’ll get a kick out of this. My favorite part was the first day. He was like, so wait, so they don’t shoot movies in order? I was like- Whoa. No, no, no. But mind you, like, sweet Nate had done SNL and probably some, like some shorts for SNL. But other than that, I don’t think he’d ever done anything like truly on camera like this before. So he was like, wait, they don’t shoot in order. And I was like oh, oh, you mean like sequential order? He’s like, so what? I was, like no, no. And I, was like not unless it’s like. Boyhood or something and he was like boy what like no i was like never mind no they’re gonna shoot all the car dealership stuff first and then all the stuff at the house i was it’s kind of location specific but in my mind i was oh yeah someone had to tell me that back in the day too like it’s just not um it’s not obvious it doesn’t just occur to you somebody has to kind of walk you through that but i found that very sweet that he didn’t he didn’t know that before making this down.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, I also feel like routinely when you’re in movies, we were talking about this before we started, you are routinely working with legends. I assume you’re often the mentee when you were on these sets growing up. What is it like to actually teach someone something about this business?

 

Mandy Moore I was laughing about it this morning because when I did that movie, A Walk to Remember, I was 16 and I didn’t have a ton of experience, so Shane West, who was like the male lead in the movie, he was the one that had to kind of show me how to hit my mark and making sure that I go through my sides the night before of what the scenes are the next day. So I had him just sort of shepherd me through that process and then I got to that’s for Nate on this movie. But yeah, I mean the fact that like I can look back and one day I’ll be able to tell my kids like I did a movie with Robin Williams and I did movie with Diane Keaton. Like it’s pretty unbelievable. I did crazy, I was talking to somebody yesterday. There was a crazy film that I did that no one ever saw and nor should they called the Southland Tales. Have you heard of this movie?

 

Louis Virtel Actually, this just came up the other day for some reason. I’m trying to remember why, but yes, I know the movie.

 

Mandy Moore Okay. So, I mean, it was a movie that I think literally everyone in Hollywood was in. Like, it just in Timberlake and Amy Poehler. All of my stuff was with Sarah Michelle Gellar, The Rock. The Rock played my husband. And this is like early rock evolving from wrestler to actor days. Wallace Shawn, John Larroquette. Like, It was crazy. And it was Richard Kelly who did that movie Donnie Darko. This was like his follow-up. And we were laughing because none of us knew what the movie was about. And there was supposedly, like none of knew. It was so hard to keep track of and somewhat like nonsensical and my husband actually, I don’t know if they, I don’t think it’s like out on criterion, but he got a copy of it, a DVD. Somehow he found a way to watch this movie. I’ve never seen it. And he’s like, Mandy, it is so bizarre and hard to follow. There is a companion graphic novel that he also bought that he’s like reading through now. He goes deep on that sort of stuff, my sweet husband, but yeah, so I also have that to like tout in my back pocket to my kids one day that I was also part of this crazy movie with literally everybody else in the business.

 

Louis Virtel I had underestimated that it went that deep. Because I remember the movie. It went deep. Yeah.

 

Mandy Moore Like, I wish I could look at the IMDB right now about like, because it was like this giant ensemble full of people that I didn’t get to meet because my little one section of the movie was with those people, but strange, strange times if you stick around this business long enough, you’ve got a couple of those and you’re on your resume too.

 

Louis Virtel I think one meeting with Wallace Shawn was probably worth it, just to hear the voice in person.

 

Mandy Moore Yeah, it was worth it. It was so much fun. He was lovely. He was love.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, an accomplished playwright, I just want to say. Yes. Now, additionally, my question to you is, what is your appetite for comedy, period? Like, are you somebody who will go and seek out like a comedian live? Like, do you care about that at all? Yeah. Your taste to me, if you just listen to your music, by the way, even the last two albums, you have such a like, you love sophistication, I feel like, and I feel the way comedy gets down and dirty, and shall we say low, might not appeal to you.

 

Mandy Moore Sometimes it does. I just finished watching Rooster and I really liked that show. I did like Rooster.

 

Louis Virtel I did, like, reserve myself. I also enjoyed that.

 

Mandy Moore I feel like I’m just like on my little like pedestal, like shouting it out to the rooftops of, uh, it was great. I love Steve Carell and I love Daniel Deadwile. I like, um, but Rory Scoville is one of my favorites. Like I, and he gets, he gets down and dirty. Um, but my husband and I saw him at Largo a couple, like a month ago or something, and I don’t think I’ve laughed that hard maybe ever, like my, my sides, like, my abs hurt. I was like, this is a good workout. Okay. Um, I, yeah, so people like that really tickled me. So on occasion, yeah. If that like it, I don’t know. It’s like, it can get me, it can definitely get me going. But, um, but yeah, I guess I don’t seek out that kind of comedy too much, I would say.

 

Louis Virtel Well, you also just put your finger on my problem with comedy, which is, one, if I’m seeing it live, you know, and I’m under-enthused, but it’s somebody I know, or just the vibe of the room, I often feel I have to laugh, and I have a German resting angst that prevents that most of the time. But secondly, if it is funny, it’s so exhausting to keep laughing. Like, I don’t, I almost, you know? Like, what’s like the happy medium? I can’t get there.

 

Mandy Moore Yeah, I know I’m with you. It’s either not funny or it’s just like it’s too much, but I’ll take the latter. I think

 

Louis Virtel Also, speaking of comedic moments, in this movie, you are confronted with the cast of Shark Tank. And I wanna talk about what is it like interacting with these people? Because by the way, following Marty Supreme, I am worried we’re platforming these people too much.

 

Mandy Moore We are platform. Well, I didn’t even realize at that time. So we filmed after an entire like actual episode of Shark Tank was being shot. So already these guys are exhausted. Obviously Lori Greiner is in our film, so she knows what she’s a part of, but we like show up in the green room. We’re handing out like the sides for Mr. Wonderful and Robert and everybody, Damon to like to look at what their lines are and what they’re doing. And they’re already like, what is this? It’s a At the time, I didn’t know that Mr. Wonderful was already an actor. Yeah. But yeah, so they, like the first take, everyone was kind of getting their feet wet, a little like dubious about what was going on. And then by the time we got around, like to the second take, they were like, oh, they locked in. Like, I know who I’m supposed to be. I know the role I’m suppose to play. Even just like within like their little ecosystem there, like they definitely have a. They know how to like interact with each other. They know what their like prescribed roles are. So it ended up becoming really fun, but I was legitimately terrified. I just like, I should have taken a beta blocker or something because I like, I was, before I like walked out like down the hallway where like the little automatic doors open and you sit there and see like the sea of them looking back at you. Um, the stage manager was like, do you want me to give you the spiel that I give everybody, like every other contestant? And I was like yes, give it to me. I want like, I’m already nervous. I want to feel it. And he basically went through and talked about like, this is an opportunity. This is not like you shouldn’t tap into your nerds. You re like, you’re here for a reason. You were chosen to be here for reason. And just like a sweet motivational moment. Um, but then you like walk down that little hall, that weird long hallway and the doors open and they’re sitting right there. And that first take. My heart was beating out of my chest. I’m like, I think this is a terrible idea. Like this invention is not great and they’re not gonna buy my idea. Like, and I was like, wait, I know what my lines are. But yeah, I felt the pressure. It was really on in that moment.

 

Louis Virtel No, it reminds me of like American Idol or something, whereas, I mean, American Idol, you actually have a song to sing, but there you have to perform having a conversation. So I just imagine that that is extremely intimidating and nervous making from the jump.

 

Mandy Moore I always thought that. I’m like, wow, these poor people, like let them just go out there and sing. Like don’t engage in small talk and where are you from and what are you. I’m just like, let them go out and have their moment. Cause like your nerves are on a 12 at that point. The worst, worst feeling.

 

Louis Virtel When you see young singers starting out, do you look at them with just both hope and also just like, does a pang stir up in you based on your past and coming from the heart of Florida, where the pop stars were churned out? Do you look these people and immediately a wave of empathy comes over you?

 

Mandy Moore I think a wave of empathy more for the world that we’re all living in nowadays, like with social media and the internet, it’s wonderful that we can connect on Zoom like right now, and you’re in LA and I’m in New York and we’re able to record this and it’s so much fun. But the fact that like young people have to endure the wave of like TikToks and Reels and Snapchatting and whatever the hell kids are doing these days, cause I’m an old. Um, I yeah, I just that that I feel like the most empathy for because I keep talking about it And I know we’re like we all are living in this like a wave of nostalgia right now But I feel Like this whole week i’ve just been like i’m in new york and I have this nostalgia for like being here during the mtv days and the fact that that’s like not even an option Anymore that music videos don’t exist but like I guess you watch them on youtube Um that like there’s no trl. There’s no like even visiting radio stations really like the way the music industry sort of functions is not, it just, it doesn’t exist in the same way. And even like making records, the last record came out four years ago of mine, like the idea of, yeah, yeah yeah, we’re gonna do, you know, all of the old fashioned stuff that you used to do, but really like, we’re just banking on like, your song becoming a TikTok trend is like, I’m like, I can’t live in this world. This is not I’m not, I’m meant for this era. So that’s what I think of with young people mostly is like, they’re, they are. They’re better suited for it than I would ever be, but also, oof, that’s gotta be tough.

 

Louis Virtel Did you think at the time you would ever be nostalgic for something like Total Request Live though? Because I imagine at the time that felt completely chaotic.

 

Mandy Moore It was, but it was also electric. Like it was magical. Even not working at MTV, like before that all happened for me and being at home and like calling, like the ridiculousness of like us waiting to see a music video that we had probably seen like two hours before or like earlier in the day. And it was like, fingers crossed that your artist was gonna get to number one on the charts that day was just like, and same with like calling into a radio station to hear a song. Like the stakes felt so high, even though they weren’t. Like I do, I miss those days, because convenience is wonderful and having everything like at our fingertips is fantastic, but also like it takes away that magical quality that I think of now like being in New York, like yeah, it was chaos, but it was also so rad to feel that energy of like you’re in Times Square and there’s like a sea of 20,000 kids screaming over a boy band that was like, you know, up in the like windows above you.

 

Louis Virtel It’s crazy. Um, you just put your finger on something I completely forgot, which is I would call into TRL even though I had almost certainly seen the video that day. Like still I wanted it again.

 

Mandy Moore I don’t, it’s like we were conditioned to do that or something. It’s like, we wanted to participate in the process of voting. Like our vote matters.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Do you remember what you called in and voted for? Because I definitely voted for Jennifer Lopez, If You Had My Love. I was a big fan of the On the Six album. And also, that’s the summer, the real boy band summer. I was in a sect of humanity that was obsessed with Madonna’s Beautiful Stranger coming out.

 

Mandy Moore So that’s what I know. I know you and Madonna, obviously, but yes, I mean that video was everything

 

Louis Virtel She was hilarious. Yeah.

 

Mandy Moore I distinctly remember Austin Powers, like the movie tie-ins with like music videos and stuff were just always the best.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, ugh, messed up.

 

Mandy Moore I remember calling in for Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, the Insane Holiday Song.

 

Louis Virtel Mandy, fuck yes.

 

Mandy Moore That’s what I remember. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel One of their best songs.

 

Mandy Moore Really wanting that. One of the, low key, one of their songs. Also, it’s like a- It has my holiday back.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no, it’s immediately festive too. It’s like, oh, it is Christmas now and we’re at the mall.

 

Mandy Moore It’s on. Yes. We are shopping.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, oh my god, we need to normalize like the fervor of shopping music, you know, like what they play during the montages in Clueless. I need more of that.

 

Mandy Moore Conscious. God, yes.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, now that we’re talking about music, I was just thinking about your catalog, and first of all, your last two albums I love, you had two albums ago, Silver Landings, you had a song on it called I’d Rather Lose, in which the main line of the song, this is also my favorite song of yours, is, if the only way to win is by breaking all the rules, I’d rather lose. And I just I felt like that really put a bow on a certain experience as an entertainer Do you often, do you feel like you were often made to be a more kind of competitive person than you are in order to survive?

 

Mandy Moore I, that’s a really good question. I feel like that’s like a very existential question. My, my like character, I am, I’m not made to be a hustler. Like innately, that is not how I’m built. And I look around me, my husband and I have this conversation a lot at friends of ours that have similar jobs that are in the business that are so comfortable in that role, um, often finds like a greater degree of success and I’m like, I just don’t have that same drive within me. Like, so if it means that I’m gonna have to break the rules or I’m going to have to like go against that gut check, I’m probably just gonna tap out. I’m just gonna like stand on the sidelines and I get a pass, I’m to say no. So I feel, somehow I have eclipsed you know, falling by the wayside. And I started as a 15 year old and I’m 42 now. And so the idea that like, I’ve been able to like senegal my way through the business without breaking all the rules, like that degree of longevity or that definition of longevity is successive.

 

Louis Virtel And speaking of your own voice in music, something that has always wowed me about you, is that while you were still a teenager, I’m pretty sure, you put out an album called Coverage, which was a very adult contemporary album for like a teenager. But at the same time, I cannot imagine anybody at your label was like, please put out an album covering Joni Mitchell and Carole King.

 

Mandy Moore No, in fact, it was my last album that I owed Epic Records, and I was like, well, I’m going to do it my way then. And I think it’s like it was in no small thanks to doing films like Saved, which I had done. I was kind of like making at the same time. I was, like, oh, I can make these sort of left of center choices that feel slightly irreverent and I’m gonna take that same philosophy and apply it to music. And all of the music that I have sort of discovered. In the last like three or four years that I’ve fallen in love with, I’m gonna put my own twist on it and hopefully introduce young people my age. Like they should know who Joe Jackson and John Hyatt and obviously Joni and this like Elton John song. It’s not Tiny Dancer. Like I was excited about the opportunity to perhaps at least in my own small way contribute to like younger people discovering some of this music. It didn’t. Necessarily unfold that way, but I still got to make the record and it still exists out there and I’m really proud that, yeah, I got to make it, but no one at the label was jumping up and down. They’re like, okay, this checks the box. You fulfilled your obligations to us and now you can move on and figure out what you’re going to do next.

 

Louis Virtel Cause it’s such a sophisticated vocal too. I mean, it’s just like, it’s an unexpected choice following you. You were a traditional pop artist before that. And by the way, some of those songs remain bangers. I want to be clear that one year, Mandy came to my birthday party and I just want to say that music was on. I just put on my mix or whatever and in my pocket came on. Now let me just say about this song, a fabulous song that is in the very small pocket of music I call belly dance pop. It’s like pussycat dolls buttons. A little Shakira and also Hillary Duff had a song called Stranger that was belly dance pop from about 2008

 

Mandy Moore I got to ask her about that, I don’t know that song.

 

Louis Virtel You can hear like kind of some chains in the background as you know

 

Mandy Moore Yes, and the music video for In My Pocket also kind of like leaned into that as well, so sure, sure. Yes. Belly dance pop.

 

Louis Virtel I’m proud. I think you can bring it back, I just want to say. The song accidentally came on, and I thought, Mandy Moore thinks I put this into like woo her or something. And I did not.

 

Mandy Moore I was so impressed. No, I would have been more mortified than impressed, but no, it was so sweet.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, such a… What pop music are you into recently? Is it something you keep up with? I don’t keep up. It’s so interesting.

 

Mandy Moore I think by vicariously listening to keep it, I feel like I’m somewhat kept current on what the kids are doing. But I listen to podcasts, I listen like news podcasts and stuff like that. Otherwise, my kids actually have good taste in music, but it’s nothing current. It’s a lot of Beatles and Tom Petty and David Bowie and Sin Lizzy. Taylor keeps them tuned into good music. We don’t have to listen to like silly kid music, which is great. Um, but I will say, I’ve been telling this story a lot the last couple of days, but Gus, our five year old, um, Taylor played candy for him and he, he, he really likes it. And now all of the, all three of them listen to it. But it’s funny because Gus is like, mom, can you put, he doesn’t, he forgot the name of the song. He’s like, can he put on the song that you made when you were my age? I’m like in your fives. I did not make my song when I was fine. But I was like, but also yeah, probably closer to your age than my age now, but sure. Um, and they really like it and they like the music video and they think it’s funny. And even my little, my daughter who’s 18 months old, like she’ll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, like bopping her head in the car seat is very sweet that they like being able to introduce them to stuff that I did when I was like such a young person and they don’t really understand what I do. They think that I am also a podcast host, which I’m like, yes, I do do that. But sometimes we’ll be in the car and Spotify will switch to finish one thing and go to my podcast and they see my picture come up or something. And so that’s what Gus thinks that I’m a podcaster. And I’m like, okay, fair enough. Yes, I host a podcast.

 

Louis Virtel Now, I’ll say about that song, there’s an underrated level of one angst in that song but two actual sass. And of course you were also in the movie Save giving a quite sassy performance. Do you like tapping into a vibe of in your face finger wagging sass?

 

Mandy Moore Yeah, I like kind of being I like being a bitch. Yeah fine It’s really fun and it’s it’s not who I am. I see some head nodding back there in the studio Yeah, like I I love being a pitch. I love tapping into that It’s not why I am although if my buttons are pushed enough I will like get angry enough to want to flip a table and that it’s no not beneath me but yeah, Princess Diaries, I play a little sassy girl and then saved, obviously. The sass from Candy’s funny because like, again, it is a pretty nonsensical song. I don’t know what it means to miss someone like Candy. I didn’t write the song, so it’s like I had no way into that. But also it’s a 15-year-old. I hadn’t even French kissed a boy at that point. So. I was singing about a lot of things and that like degree of longing that I really had no business singing about because I had no idea, I had point of reference. So that’s something that like tickles me when I think back to that time. Like I truly was this little innocent girl like walking around, not knowing, like having no connection to the music that I was thinking. So I don’t know where the sass came from.

 

Louis Virtel I also want to say that that naivete is actually realized in the video because you could not drive that green bug at the time.

 

Mandy Moore No, they pulled the car. Yeah. Like a movie trick. It was on a trailer and we were just like driving through the streets of wherever we shot that music video. I don’t even know. Somewhere in the like deep suburbs of Los Angeles.

 

Louis Virtel It was full chitty-chitty bang-bang, just like old Hollywood magic, yeah.

 

Mandy Moore Yep, old Hollywood magic. Yep.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, before I forget, by the way, so Nate Bargatze, I guess, is simply going to have a theme park now. Can you explain what is happening with it? And he’s like, and then you ask him about it and it feels like, oh, like sketch comedy, like he’ll, the joke is up. No, no, no. This man will soon have a- No, it’s rea-

 

Mandy Moore Yeah. I think he’s like going to be the new Walt Disney in the vein of like a Dollywood, I guess there was like Opry land also in Nashville. He’s like, I grew up working at Opryland. It doesn’t exist anymore. And he’s and I want to bring that like family entertainment back to Nashville. It’s fascinating. I’m like, dude, how do you have the time and the bandwidth to like do all of this, to have all of these on your plate, but somehow he finds the time. I was like, can I get a fast pass? Like I want to go to this. I wanna go to the theme park. Maybe I’ll get like a performance job there.

 

Louis Virtel But you’re from Florida the idea that you would still go to a theme park. I feel like if I grew up near them I would be so exhausted

 

Mandy Moore No, no, I love it. I think mainly because growing up in Orlando, like you really reserved going to the theme parks when you had company in town.

 

Louis Virtel Hmm

 

Mandy Moore I feel like it’s much more and it was it was pretty like we lived like maybe an hour away from that side of town. I feel I have like more access to Disneyland living in LA now and I probably go more often than I even did growing up.

 

Louis Virtel My final question for you is also pertaining to this movie, which is actual family entertainment. Like you can definitely introduce, you can show it to your kids, you can watch it with your spouse, et cetera. What do you actually use as family entertainment in your house? Cause you have young kids. And I was thinking recently, like I guess unless it’s a superhero movie or like an animated movie.

 

Mandy Moore Too old. Yeah, my kids don’t watch a ton of TV. It’s like just a weekend thing. And right now they’re like into, you know, they’re into the show called Wild Kratts, which is like a PBS show about animals. And so it’s not that’s not really co viewing for me. I’m not super interested in Wild Kats, if I’m honest, but my husband did show our older guy, Indiana Jones. And I was like, that’s nice. We’re a little, he’s a little young for that. There’s some scary things in that. But he loves it. We had to order him an Indiana Jones costume on Amazon and he like runs around with the whip. I’m like, can we take the whip away? The whip feels like it’s actually gonna hurt somebody but he has like the little messenger bag and he’s got the hat. It’s very cute. So that was something that we watched recently together but I don’t know. I’m excited to show them this movie one day. It was one of the, you know, for me, like the. The idea of like being able to do a film like this that harkens back to some of the sweeter family entertainment that we had growing up, you know, like Uncle Box, like there’s John Hughes films that feel like sweet and classic and like there is a little something for mom and dad and for the kids, like they don’t make these movies anymore. So hopefully this movie will do well enough that Hollywood will realize there is a demand for this kind of entertainment because we need it, families need it.

 

Louis Virtel Also, one final actual question. You brought her up earlier. Do you have any memories of working with Diane Keaton that you can share? We had Taylor Page here last week and she was talking about working on her in one of her last movies also. Yours was like 20 years ago, but yes.

 

Mandy Moore It was 20 years ago. I, man, it’s still hard to think about the fact that she’s gone. She just felt like eternal. Like she would always be around showing up in like an incredible ensemble and like just floating. She was just like, that’s when I think of with Di. Like she just like floated and slid it around the world. Like I just remember her showing up in the mornings still in, it always comes back to fashion, but she’s just so iconic in that sense, right? Like she would show up in like the most incredible ensemble, just her like street clothes. Like there was a glove and a boot and a big skirt with a belt and a hat. Like she kind of wore most of her own clothes, I feel like for her character and because I said so, like that was, it was hard to distinguish between Dai and the character, like they were sort of one. And she was so. Deeply maternal. I was like 21 when we made that movie and I felt like she was kind of a second mom for a couple months to me. I just, I loved her. I feel like everybody that worked with her in that capacity where she got to be your family member, play your mom, if you had that good fortune, like you really felt that, like that warmth envelop you. She was so made to be a mother. She loved her kids and like that just emanated on screen. She wasn’t the best. There was like nobody. Nobody liked her, just she was one of one for sure.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I’m thrilled to hear that and also thrilled to have you back after seven years I’m sorry. The next time you’re coming back is not seven years from now. I refuse to think about what that looks like

 

Mandy Moore Oh my gosh, I will come back literally. I’m like, I know you, you know, you have a rotating cast of characters coming in as co-hosts, but anytime you need someone to fill in, I just like, you’re the best. I love listening to you. I love your conversations. You ask the best questions and always happy to chat.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, thank you so much. And also, as I said, when you came on the show, you are an endorphin giving person. I’m thrilled always to talk to you and I better see you in person soon. This has been so fucking awesome seeing you.

 

Mandy Moore I know I need to give you like a big squeeze. Alright, thanks for having me

 

Louis Virtel Coming soon, coming soon. Okay. Thank you, Mandy, for being with us.

 

Mandy Moore Bye. Thank you.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with the meanest part of the episode. It’s keep it. Guy, what are you saying Keep It to this week? I know you’re rankled.

 

Guy Branum Louis, that woman who reposts Miriam Malnick-Ezagwi’s TikToks on Facebook but under a different name, she can keep it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Guy Branum Am I referring to Orthodox Jewish labor and delivery nurse Miriam-Malnick Ezagwi? Yes. Do I worship her and her five daughters and the TikToks that she does teaching us about her life as an Orthodox Jewish woman? Yes. Are her children the greatest comedy performers that we have right now? Oh, Louis, if you could see Masudi get dragged across the ground by her sister, like, you would understand what real comedy is. But then there’s this other lady who reposts her TikToks. And so that she can make money from them, but it’s not her. And then I’ll just be in a run of like five different, you know, here’s all the kosher food that my toddler ate in a day. And then realize that I’m paying money to someone else who is stealing from Miriam. That is not okay. Oh, sure. Like this is a woman who has done so much to popularize baby wrapping and wearing in America and, you know promoting and exploring Orthodox Jewish life. For a broader audience, it’s so much fun. Like so many people I know, Lindy West, also a huge fan. That baby has so much hair. But, lady who is trying to steal from Miriam, you can keep it. I don’t need, like, your detestable ways of stealing by reposting are offensive to me, and I will try harder to pay attention to what account I am looking at when I am watching those girls in their Purim costumes. That is a bit of a chore.

 

Louis Virtel To have to like, is this her or the doppelganger? Like, who’s actually posting this? I am a big constant critic of people who are monetizing things online they should not be. I cannot stand, for example, when somebody posts screenshots of a television show and then just posts the quotes from the television show and then they put it on their account and then that gets the likes. That should be actionably against the law.

 

Guy Branum Well, there are so many complexities about people posting their children and I understand people having many emotions about that and I don’t understand and respect when people don’t feel comfortable doing that. But I also have such a feeling of warmth and adoration towards all five of Miriam’s daughters. And like… I have never heard of this person. You’re talking to me like we all hang out with Miriam. No, but the thing is is like, these are the weird niches that we have where this is a person who has millions of followers. And most people don’t know who she is, but then you find out this other person. It’s just like, I mean, the fascinating thing of going on Instagram and following a Hawkeye and then seeing which of your friends follow that Hawkeyes because this is their taste in Hawkeyi. Well, this is my taste. Like, I don’t want to watch a woman who is. My children have never had Oreos, so I’m going to make them Oreos from emmerwheat. I will watch that woman, but that doesn’t give me joy. Miriam going to a Passover program where she and her family are going to have all of their Passover needs taken care of them for them by catering over the course of a week with a water park, yes, I want to watch that.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. I was just thinking, are there anybody like that? I actually, I do, there’s an interior decorator influencer named Caroline Winkler I really, really like. Cause I am so envious of interior decorators. How do they know what’s going to fit in this space? Why do they like measuring things so much? I don’t have that instinct. Are you good at that stuff? No, I really admire it. It’s honestly like having a fashion sense.

 

Guy Branum Yes, and you you generally have a good fashion sense, but I would also say that you play a minimalist game and yes

 

Louis Virtel Yes, I what I call a gray man. I like to address presentably, but you know, I’m not I’m not here to like make a statement.

 

Guy Branum Let’s be honest, so much of your fashion work is just shoulders and arms these days.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, and excuse me, clavicle, which used to be a funny comedy word but now we have clavicular so it’s all over. I know. Sternum. I’ll change it. Sternum will be my comedy word now.

 

Guy Branum But I mean, but the clavicle is magical. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Guy Branum He doesn’t he doesn’t get to own it

 

Louis Virtel Thank you for that Seussical-like observation. Thank you. My Keep It This Week. I saw a tweet that I just thought was provocative, I’ll read it here. It is, I think Dua Lipa has a moonstruck, 1987 in her, but the writer-director stars would have to align in inconceivable ways. People really are just underestimating what Cher can do. That is a complete pop culture one-time thing that Cher, who was, you know, beloved singer, variety star, icon. Then waded into acting in a dominant alpha way and we all bent towards her. Of course she was in the movie Chastity in the 60s, but then in the 80s we got her and come back to the five and dime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean one of my favorite all female dramas. She was then in Silkwood with Meryl Streep and then a few years later after the mask snub she was nominated for the best actress, Oscar for Moonstruck and won it. Couldn’t have been anybody about Cher. I can’t picture anybody in that role, but do you know what this tweet made me think of? That, um, upsets me in terms of a pop star, uh, not turning into an actor. How have we not gotten the fucking Adele rom-com? Adele, to me, is the prime example of somebody who should also be acting, because whenever she gives an interview, talks, the pattern between songs at her Las Vegas residency, This woman is always funny.

 

Guy Branum Have we not had this conversation? One of my great regrets in life is that Adele’s career will never be bad enough that she has to host a game show. Yes. Because the thing is, is like Adele could. Like Adele has the level of sincerity required to host of cooking show, which is the greatest level of of sincerity possible. We’ve discussed this with Valerie Bird Nelly. But like AdeLE, AdeLE hosting a game show would just make me so happy. Like she has that human touch. She has that sincerity. Adele crying when Celine Dion is in the audience is just that moment that you know she could really bring to something. And yes, like Adele really could act. Like you need the right director with her to steer her in the right direction. I think one of the hardest things for these big stars is going onto a set and being in a place where they can be guided in the direction. And I think it was the wonderful thing about Cher on Silkwood being with Mary Louise Streep. Yes, with Mike Nichols who can direct.

 

Louis Virtel With Mike Nichols, who is the director of All Time, actor’s director.

 

Guy Branum And like both of these people are people you’re gonna fucking listen to and you’re going to watch. And like she grew out of that like so amazingly and gave us so much. And it’s not something everyone can do. A lot of people have taken stabs at that transition and it hasn’t happened, but like first we would need to make a rom-com again. Right. I’m sorry, I know I’m living in a fantasy world. I know, but like Adele has that in her and I want that from her and out of her because like what we get on Graham Norton is so.

 

Louis Virtel That’s what I mean, it’s painful. Why are you acting like an awesome actress outside with other actors who are treating you like an actor, basically? Graham Norton certainly does. I will say, by the way, we are getting a movie with her. She’s gonna be in Tom Ford’s Cry to Heaven, which is based on the Anne Rice book. I don’t know how this fits with Adele, why it’s going to be Adele. I’m encouraged by that. But I hope the charm quotient is what I want because I’m so. Upset with this in a guys and like we haven’t tapped into some pop culture guys, or we could be getting

 

Guy Branum The thing is, a single man was a great movie. I don’t know that a Tom Ford film is the best vehicle for what she’s bringing to the table, but I would say what Tom Ford is bringing to the table is somebody who is a big enough identity to be able to tell Adele what she needs to be doing that she may not realize. She trusts him. Yes. Right. No, I hope we get something. I mean, she almost could be a standup. Yes. You know? I mean, like, like inter-song pattern is one of the greatest art.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no, and it’s like I saw Patti LuPone in concert recently and she during her patter and of course Patti is marvelously funny Yeah, I was still hearing the Bruce Belanche and by the way, he was in the theater So I know he was writing those jokes Adele. I get the feeling she’s kind of penning it herself

 

Guy Branum Okay, I would like to make an argument. I think we should nationalize Paul Feig. I think we need to understand that Paul Feigh is a resource, and like, he can’t just be going where he wants to. Like, we need- In his dotty little suits. Right. We need him focused on taking the ladies who we want comedy out of and getting proper comedy out them. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I’m just saying, this is a project we could all be working on. I feel like Adele only does things she really, really wants to do, only puts on music when she really really wants too, and I just think in this atmosphere where we’re living right now, we need to be screaming at her.

 

Guy Branum A Phoebe Waller bridge a Phoebe waller bridge

 

Louis Virtel No, don’t even bring her up. Where is she? She’s got that fucking husband who I’m sure wants to do whatever with her and she’s like, I’m gonna keep writing for Amazon and they’re gonna keep not making the show and I’m going to keep getting paid.

 

Guy Branum But like, if Phoebe Waller-Bridge decided to do a big, broad comedy with Adele…

 

Louis Virtel I mean… Oh, pain. I can’t believe you would even say that. The atmosphere in the room has changed. The idea that this woman would roll along and cut off Julie Louis-Dreyfus’s Emmy streak, and I’m like, exactly right, she deserved it. Yes. What? And then she’s like, and now I’m gonna disappear.

 

Guy Branum The Banshees of Inisheeran by my husband. Can I ask you one other question that is seemingly unrelated, but is, is it all right for Richard Curtis to be in repose? I know. Do we need to pull him out in some way? Like, honestly, our British Paul Feig. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Richard Curtis has written every delightful little comedy. He’s like about a boy and stuff, right? No, not a-

 

Guy Branum No, not about a boy? No, no, no. Hugh Granty stuff. Four weddings at a funeral, Notting Hill, that kind of thing.

 

Louis Virtel And you know that I think the greatest anybody has ever looked in the 1990s is Christian Scott Thomas in Four Weddings and a Funeral. Honey, that was a Bob. And a Bob should be dark.

 

Guy Branum What he does with that ensemble, in both that and Notting Hill, that Kristen Scott-Thomas maybe has less than ten lines. Yes. But she’s an indelible character in that film. Speaking of shoulders. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. God, I fucking love her. At the Emmys two years ago, I had to, I wanted to talk to Jodie Foster and I had to go through Kristen Scott Thomas. That’s how life was. That’s what life is. Kristen Scott, Dame Kristen Scott Thomas does not like me.

 

Louis Virtel Wow, really? Oh my god, I always think about how when Cate Blanchett came along that totally waylaid Kristen Scott.

 

Guy Branum It really did. It is interesting things like that, like as you know, I love Anne Bancroft too much and Olympia Dukakis really was just like, no, no. These like Mediterranean old lady roles are gonna go in another direction for the next 10 years, Anne Banchroft.

 

Louis Virtel I’m the rankled one now. Guy Branum, thank you so much for joining us today as always. Thank you so for having me. Oh my God, the conversation would never be the same without you. Where can we find you on social media if perhaps I’m looking?

 

Guy Branum Okay, um, I am at Guy Branum across all social media. Also, my solo show, Be Fruitful, is going to be in Provincetown.

 

Louis Virtel And you must see this man live. Guy is a brilliant comedian.

 

Guy Branum June five through seven, I’m gonna be at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival for all of August. So if any Keep It listeners are gonna be at the Fringe festival, they should buy tickets to my show, they’re linked in bio. And also go see Stop That Train in theaters and or the last two episodes of Hex in HBO Max. I promoted a lot there, Louis. I realized that was a lot.

 

Louis Virtel You did a great job.

 

Guy Branum But I knew that you could take the load.

 

Louis Virtel Also, but beautifully said. Also, you just brought up Europe and I want to add congratulations to Bulgaria for winning Eurovision. It’s a fraught year, so I wasn’t as invested. But can you name the one Oscar nominee ever born in Bulgaria? Actor, an actor.

 

Guy Branum Oh, it’s not, I’m gonna say it was that lady who was in Zorba the Greek.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, Lila Kedrova. Good guess. The correct answer is Maria Bakalova from Borat 2.

 

Guy Branum Oh, okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Guy Branum But also Rita Wilson’s father, a Bulgarian Greek. Let us never forget.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes, that’s true. That’s true One time somebody was like we have to go to a birthday party before we hit the bars and we went it was just a we-ho apartment and it was Maria Bocalova. What?

 

Guy Branum Oh.

 

Louis Virtel Seems nice. I met that actress Victoria Prodretti. Brilliant. Anyway, thank you to the tremendous Mandy Moore for joining us she will be back because I will be angry otherwise. Thank you to Guy Branum for being here. We’ll be back in two weeks after the long holiday with more Keep it. Keep It is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Caroline Reston, Kelsey Gante, Kendra James, Lindsey Gomez, and me, Louis Virtel. Our team includes Matt DeGroot, Rachel Gaewski, Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, Mia Kellman, Jay Banks, Charlotte Landes, and Jordan Kantor. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

 

 [AD]