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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Monday, December 15th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show asking President Donald Trump to move on dot org. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] The election was rigged in 2020. We have all the ammunition, all the stuff, and you’ll see it come out. It’s coming out in in truckloads. 

Jane Coaston: Look, we all have things we can’t quite get over. The series finale of The Sopranos, the time we spent watching Cruel Intentions 2. But Mr. President, it’s been more than five years. There’s a lot going on right now. Time to pack it up. [music break] On today’s show, Republicans scrambled to pass health care legislation before the end of the year. And two mass shootings occurred over the weekend, one in Sydney, Australia, and another at Brown University in Rhode Island. We talked to Brown University’s student body president later in the show. But let’s start with tariffs. Donald Trump loves tariffs. He’d take a tariff on a date, and he’d even pay. He loves tariffs so much that on Tuesday he went on a loving tangent about them at a rally in Pennsylvania. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Remember when I said tariff? My favorite word is tariff, true, but then I got a lot of heat from the fake news. Look at all of them back there. [sound of audience booing]

Jane Coaston: He’s also very upset that apparently you don’t love tariffs. You asshole. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal on Friday, he told the paper that he didn’t know voters would understand that all of his effort on the economy was good and awesome. He said, quote, “I’ve created the greatest economy in history, but it may take people a while to figure all these things out.” He went on to say, quote, “all this money that’s pouring into our country is building things right now. Car plants, AI, lots of stuff. I cannot tell you how that’s going to equate to the voter. All I can do is do my job.” His job, which apparently is making tariffs. But here’s my question. If tariffs are so great, why are there so many exemptions? According to a new analysis from Politico, more than half of US imports are not getting hit by the president’s emergency tariffs. Tariffs that Trump has said are the only things standing between us in, quote, “1929 all over again, a great depression.” So why so many exceptions? To find out, I spoke to Paroma Soni. She’s a data and graphics reporter at Politico, where she covers trade, immigration, agriculture, and politics. Paroma, welcome to What a Day. 

Paroma Soni: Thank you, I’m happy to be here. 

Jane Coaston: So, President Trump first unveiled these widespread reciprocal tariffs back in April. What countries did they apply to, and I think more importantly, what were they supposed to do? 

Paroma Soni: So the respirocal tariffs, they were called Liberation Day tariffs, they apply to almost every country in the world. 

Jane Coaston: Yes, and I believe a country that was just penguins. 

Paroma Soni: Correct. There were some small uninhabited islands that were facing tariffs around 50%. With the exception of four or five countries, all countries were tariffed at a baseline of 10%. And then about 60 countries had higher tariffs. And it was an effort by Donald Trump to sort of address the growing trade deficit that the US has with a lot of different countries. He declared this widening trade deficit as a national emergency, and he used this law from the 1970s called the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to impose these blanket tariffs on most of the world. And what they were supposed to do was essentially rebalance America’s trade deficit. He said it would raise revenue, it would boost manufacturing, among other things. 

Jane Coaston: I noticed that you used air quotes when you said rebalance because I’m going to guess that you and I both understand that having a trade deficit isn’t like a bad thing. Like, I have a trade deficit with my grocery store. I have never sold them anything. 

Paroma Soni: Right. And then partly the reason why you have trade deficits or the way that trade around the world works is that you have to import some things, especially things that you do not produce in your own country, and then you export the things that have a surplus off. I mean, this is a simple way of of  explaining–

Jane Coaston: Yes of course. 

Paroma Soni: –that trade relationship. But you know there are some things that critical minerals that are largely found in countries like China. And so they dominate that market. And if you need those, which are materials that you use in everything from like computers to phones to missiles systems or you know TVs, you’re going to need to import that from countries that do produce it. And you may or may not export the same amount of something else, but that’s how a trade deficit works. And the idea of global trade starting in the ’60s, ’70s is that system of reciprocity. 

Jane Coaston: Were there any products exempted from those tariffs at the time? 

Paroma Soni: When he initially announced the reciprocal tariffs, there was not a lot of guidance on what would and would not be included. You know, it created a massive crash in the global stock market. And so the tariffs were then subsequently paused for I think about three months, giving countries time to negotiate their rates. In that time, I think he negotiated eight trade deals with eight countries. They had outlined some assumptions, not all of them went into effect. But for the most part, they were blanket tariffs applied to all goods coming from all countries, except for like North Korea, Cuba, Russia and Belarus, and Canada and Mexico. 

Jane Coaston: So how quickly did the rules around these tariffs start to change? Because I’ve been really interested in how now there’s more than a trillion dollars of exemptions to these tariffs. 

Paroma Soni: So Trump first announced exemptions in September. And on that list were a number of like industrial materials and some critical minerals and infrastructure stuff that totaled about $280 billion. That was our Politico’s analysis estimate based on import levels from 2024. And then in November, they exempted another $250 billion of goods that were mostly agricultural, including things like bananas, coffee, beef. Some of which are not widely produced in the US. 

Jane Coaston: Was that kind of the main reason for that? Because I could imagine that like putting tariffs on coffee so that you’re going to help American coffee growers is gonna be tough when um coffee isn’t really grown that much in America. 

Paroma Soni: Right. And that’s exactly what what it was. You know a lot of economists already had that criticism as soon as these tariffs were announced. And I think bit by bit the Trump administration had implemented these broad tariffs and then realized that it was not actually benefiting American consumers or like the cost of tariffs was not being borne by foreign exporters, which is something that the Trump Administration has said again and again. And as grocery prices and food prices keep going up! They started adding these carve-outs for things that either don’t grow here or that are hard to manufacture without a certain import from another country. 

Jane Coaston: So these tariffs are technically still in place. They haven’t been repealed, but their scope has been continuously modified and shifted over the course of the past eight months. As we head into the new year, how many products are still subject to Trump’s universal 10% tariffs? 

Paroma Soni: Our analysis found that about $1.7 trillion are excluded from the IEPA tariffs, the emergency law that I was mentioning earlier, and about $1.6 trillion are still subject to them. But I will note that those tariffs that I’m talking about are not just the reciprocal tariffs. Trump also used this law to implement emergency tariffs on Canada and Mexico. So Canada and Mexico don’t face the reciprocal tariffs, but they face another tariff over what Trump calls, you know, the fentanyl smuggling across the land borders of the US, China also faces a fentanyl tariff, which is in addition to the 10% baseline. So all of those tariffs are included in Politico’s analysis, and we found that in practice about half of them are excluded. 

Jane Coaston: What do you think that means for Trump’s overall economic message? Like, he loves tariffs, he thinks tariffs are great, but he also needs to put all these exemptions to tariffs because they’re doing bad things to the American consumer. So are these tariffs doing what this administration wants them to do? 

Paroma Soni: That is the question, right? That is the big question to be asked. The Trump administration has repeatedly promised that these tariffs would do all these great things. And then when you find out that, you know, over time about half of the imports of the US are excluded from these tariffs. And so it does in some sense undercut these promises to raise revenue. It also undercuts his messaging that these are widespread, that they’re gonna affect every single country, every single product, because that’s not true. And you know they are making more and more trade deals, but as you have more and products exempted from it, it’s sort of a retreat in principle, as one of our um sources put it. 

Jane Coaston: These reciprocal tariffs are also the subject of a Supreme Court case weighing the president’s use of that 1977 emergency powers law you’ve referenced, a law that Trump believes can allow him to unilaterally impose tariffs. We are still waiting on the justices to make that decision, but if they rule against the Trump administration, is there a chance these reciprocal tariffs just go away?

Paroma Soni: Yeah. I mean, if the Supreme Court rules that Trump exceeded his authority in using this law to enact these tariffs, they might strike down all of the reciprocal tariffs as well as the fentanyl tariffs on Canada and Mexico, as well these other tariffs that they’ve put on India over their purchase of Russian oil, and they put tariffs on Brazil over the treatment of their former president Bolsonaro, and then the Trump administration would owe refunds to all of the US businesses that have been paying these tariffs over the last few months. 

Jane Coaston: Which would be very expensive. 

Paroma Soni: It would be very expensive. 

Jane Coaston: Going into 2026, how could Trump’s tariff policies continue to change? Is there an end date for any of the trade agreements or the exemptions? 

Paroma Soni: You know given the the sheer amount of volatility in this last year, I don’t know. And I don’t know that anyone really knows because the policies have been changing sometimes two or three times in the same week. And so it has raised revenue. It has done to some extent what Trump said it would or that he wanted it to. And he has been also using it as a form of leverage to other governments to you know make more financial investments into the U.S. Or to come to the negotiating table. And so it largely seems like it’s a negotiation tool more than it is an economic policy. But as far as an end date, I don’t I don’t think that anyone can really know what the Trump administration is planning. 

Jane Coaston: Paroma, thank you so much for joining me. 

Paroma Soni: Absolutely. This was a a real pleasure. Glad to have helped a little bit. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Paroma Soni, a data and graphics reporter at Politico. You can check out her article in the show notes. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Austrailian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese] What we saw yesterday was an act of pure evil, an act of anti-Semitism, an act of terrorism on our shores in an iconic Australian location, Bondi Beach. 

Jane Coaston: Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese denounced Sunday’s deadly shooting attack at a Hanukkah celebration on Sydney’s Bondi Beach. The attack is the country’s deadliest mass shooting in nearly three decades. The police confirmed that two gunmen opened fire Sunday evening during the Hanukah by the Sea event. At the time of this recording, 15 people between the ages of 10 and 87 had died, and more than 40 others were injured. One gunman, a 50-year-old man, was fatally shot by police while the other attacker, his 24-year old son, was wounded and taken into custody. Authorities say one of the shooters was known to security services, though there was no prior indication of a planned attack. Police said two improvised explosive devices were discovered at the scene, and authorities later found six firearms at the property where the 50- year-old gunman had been staying. 

[clip of Senator Bill Cassidy] Our problem is not with Republicans. Our problem has been with Democrats. But of course, they may say that about us. So what I am kind of searching for is a deal in which both have their concerns addressed. 

Jane Coaston: And I would like a pony. Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy told CBS’s Face the Nation Sunday that Democrats and Republicans need to put their minds together and push for a deal that addresses the looming healthcare crisis. Cassidy reiterated his point on CNN’s State of the Union Sunday. Busy guy. By suggesting a compromise is possible. 

[clip of Senator Bill Cassidy] Republicans have pushed that we would put money in the patient’s pocket so that she has something to pay the out-of-pocket. Democrats are saying let’s do something about premiums. I think that now there is a deal that could be made. Why don’t we do both? 

Jane Coaston: CBS’s Margaret Brennan later asked Virginia Democratic Senator Mark Warner about Cassidy’s idea, which could kick the can into next year. 

[clip of CBS’s Margaret Brennan] Would you be on board with that? 

[clip of Senator Mark Warner] We’ve got a crisis that hits as of Monday. 

[clip of CBS’s Margaret Brennan] Right. 

[clip of Senator Mark Warner] Tomorrow because that’s when people have to sign up. 

[clip of CBS’s Margaret Brennan] He says retroactively you can do it. 

[clip of Senator Mark Warner] Well, listen, it’s a mess once you’ve signed up or you’ve dropped out of the system You know the idea that you’re retroactively gonna fix it, fix it now so people don’t go into Christmas thinking they’re gonna not know if they’re be able to afford healthcare.

Jane Coaston: Today is December 15th, and for many states, it’s the last day of open enrollment for the Affordable Care Act health care plans. The Senate rejected partisan proposals last week that were meant to make health care more affordable as enhanced ACA subsidies are set to expire at the end of the year. After the failures in the Senate, Speaker Mike Johnson revealed a House GOP plan to tackle health care costs, which does not include an extension of the enhanced subsidies. Johnson says the House will vote on it this week. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will continue discussions today in Berlin on how to end Russia’s war in Ukraine. Zelenskyy, President Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff, and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner met for hours on Sunday. Ahead of the meeting, Zelenskyy suggested he’s ready to make compromises, including forgoing Ukraine’s long-time bid to join NATO in exchange for security guarantees from allies like the United States. The concession would be a win for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who sees Ukraine’s desire to join the alliance as a major threat to Moscow’s security. But Zelenskyy has rejected a push by the U.S. for Ukraine to cede territory to Russia. The U. S. has been weighing both Russia’s and Ukraine’s demands, as Trump, who wants to be known as the peace president, presses for a swift end to the war. The search for possible compromises has run into major obstacles, including control of Ukraine’s eastern Donetsk region, which is mostly occupied by Russian forces. Affordability is the ghost haunting the Republican Party, and it’s not a friendly ghost. While Trump waves off affordability as a democratic hoax, members of his own party are wondering whether they need to introduce new legislation to avoid getting clobbered in the midterms. Last week, Trump downplayed the need for another legislative package. He said Republicans, quote, “got everything” they needed from the big Republican spending law debacle disaster adventure passed earlier this year. But according to The Hill, some Republicans argue the party didn’t sell its mega bill well enough. And others warned Democrats could gain popularity if the GOP doesn’t fix the soaring cost of health care. Louisiana Republican Senator John Kennedy took to the House floor on Thursday to argue Republicans should pursue another budget reconciliation bill to tackle affordability. He was cool, calm, collected, and very normal in his call for House leadership to bring such legislation to the floor. 

[clip of Senator John Kennedy] Pretty please. I’ll add a cherry. Um. I even got an old McDonald’s, McRibs coupon somewhere. I’ll add I’ll throw that in the mix too. Please bring another reconciliation bill. 

Jane Coaston: Two things. One, that man went to Oxford University. Two, nothing reassures voters struggling with rent and groceries quite like a legislative pitch anchored to a limited time McDonald’s sandwich. And that’s the news. [music break] One more thing, on Saturday evening, Brown University was subject to a tragedy we have become way, way, way too accustomed to in America, a mass shooting. In a room on campus designated for an economics final exam review session, a gunman walked in and started shooting, killing two students and injuring nine. The entire campus was put under lockdown for 12 hours as students sheltered in place and tried to figure out what the hell happened. As of our recording time on Sunday, there’s a lot of details we don’t know. Talib Reddick is president of Brown’s Undergraduate Council of Students. He was in his dorm room on campus when the shooting took place. I spoke to him on Sunday. Talib Reddick, welcome to What a Day. 

Talib Reddick: Thank you. 

Jane Coaston: Thank you for being here. First and foremost, how are you doing? 

Talib Reddick: Yeah, um I’m okay. I’m honestly still registering everything that’s been happening. Um. A lot of sadness, a lot of stress, but also a lot of a lot of community on campus. 

Jane Coaston: If you’re comfortable sharing, can you talk about where you were when you first learned about what had happened and how you got to safety? 

Talib Reddick: Yes, I was here in my dorm room, actually. I was taking a nap after my final exam for urban politics. I was a little tired, so I took a nap. My mom wakes me up, calling me urgently, asking where I am, um if I was safe. And she told me that there was an active shooter on campus. 

Jane Coaston: So you found out from your mom?

Talib Reddick: Yeah um, and then I just checked my phone and saw everything. 

Jane Coaston: You mentioned that there’s a lot of community on campus. What’s the atmosphere like among students right now? 

Talib Reddick: Yeah, the atmosphere is like, you just got the wind knocked out of you. I mean, it’s very, very, not the best. I can tell the students are really upset, very down. I say community because I do see that we’re coming together. I mean we’re already a very tight-knit community here on campus, but of course, you know through such a traumatic experience, um togetherness is really, really important. 

Jane Coaston: What has the university communicated so far? Have classes been canceled? What’s expected in regards to like the end of the year? Like what have you learned from the university? 

Talib Reddick: The university has sent a lot of communications um since this started. They have canceled finals, um and so a lot people are heading home now. A lot of I saw a lot a people leaving out with suitcases. Um. I was supposed to be here, required to be here to the 21st as an RA on campus as well to help close out the dorms, um but they’re saying that we’re allowed to to leave if we need to. 

Jane Coaston: I’m so sorry this happened. 

Talib Reddick: Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Coaston: What do you want the university to do or how could the university make you and your classmates feel safer when they get back to campus? 

Talib Reddick: Um, I’m not sure how much they can do to make us feel safer given the situation. I mean, I was just sitting at lunch today with some friends and, you know, some of them said, like, how do we go forward from here or or it’ll never be the same. So I’m not sure how much they can truly do, but I know that um I will be making it very clear with the university um on feedback that I’m hearing from students. I have heard a lot from students on what what needs to be done. Uh whether it comes to cameras–

Jane Coaston: What are you hearing?

Talib Reddick: Yeah whether it comes to whether it comes to cameras, like like more surveillance, we we couldn’t see the shooter’s face, which I thought was a big issue. I do really appreciate law enforcement’s response on campus, but it was just very stressful sitting in lockdown shelter in place for hours on end. And I, I mean I was in here in my dorm without any food, um and it was sickening to to hear all this stuff and not know whether we were safe or not, uh and also just hearing about the victims as well. 

Jane Coaston: What do you want people outside of the Brown community to understand about what you and other students are experiencing right now? 

Talib Reddick: This can happen to anyone. And it’s really sad that that’s the case here in America. This should not be the case. As someone who also studies politics, it has always confused me why this is a political discussion. Um. Why people get so enraged and upset after the shootings and then forget about it after a few weeks, or it just leaves the political discussion, that no legislation is passed. Um. And also just hearing so many stories from students. I mean, one of my good friends was the teaching assistant in that class. Uh. He was in charge of this class that that got shot up. And now he’s back home. Thankfully, he’s safe. But so many people have been impacted in so many ways. We’ve had students here, one survived the Parkland shooting. One also got shot herself years ago, and now she’s involved in this. So yeah it’s, it’s just all around. It’s very sad. 

Jane Coaston: Talib, thank you so much for joining me and take care of yourself, okay? 

Talib Reddick: Thank you so much. Have a good one. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Talib Reddick, president of Brown University’s undergraduate council of students. [music break] That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, correctly toss a coin, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how Donald Trump had the honor of performing the ceremonial coin toss at the annual Army-Navy College football game this weekend and managed to do so without flipping the coin at all? So it just landed. It was very weird, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and I didn’t even know it was possible to be bad at tossing a coin. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our associate producers are Emily Fohr and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We have production help today from Greg Walters and Matt Berg. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. We had help from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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