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This week, Louis is joined by E! News correspondent Justin Sylvester and comedian Guy Branum to discuss the 83rd Golden Globes. They get into Nikki Glaser’s monologue, Teyana Taylor, Rose Byrne, One Battle After Another, Hamnet, The Pitt, Sinners, and more. They also review the first three episodes of The Traitors season 4, then Louis sits down with Golden Globe-nominee Eva Victor to discuss their film Sorry, Baby.

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TRANSCRIPT

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. I remain Louis Virtel. And I have to tell you, I think my favorite thing about this podcast and life in general is taking a beat after an award show happens and then deciding what I think about it. We get to do that today with a veteran, first of all, of Keep it, Guy Branum. Welcome back to Keep It.

 

Guy Branum Hello, good to be here.

 

Louis Virtel What is your favorite awards telecast?

 

Guy Branum Of all time. I mean, you know that it is the 1994 Golden Globes. The Golden Gloves are a fun time. Everyone gets to have fun and audition for the Academy Awards. And it was when Emma Thompson gave her acceptance speech for Best Screenplay as a letter from Jane Austen. It’s the best comedy bit that’s ever been pulled off as an acceptance speech. And the 90s were just a golden age of film. And you had star, star, stars as far as the eye can see. I mean, I love a globe.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, also that was the 96 Golden Globes by the way because we’re talking about sense and sensibility. Yes. Don’t mess that up again, but you will

 

Guy Branum Ninety-five? Ninety f- Ninety fi-

 

Louis Virtel 95 was the year of the movie, and 96 was the ceremony. I also learned recently that there was a Golden Globes co-hosted in the 90s by Tim Curry and Faye Dunaway. I was like, they just want people to set the whole place on fire. Yes, what’s happening?

 

Louis Virtel And we also have a newcomer to keep it. Please welcome Justin Sylvester who was boots on the ground at the Golden Globes on Sunday

 

Justin Sylvester Literally Alexander McQueen’s on the motherfucking ground.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Now, I’ve been on a number of red carpets and I want to say, while it is great to interview people who are great interviewees, it is pure chaos. How was your fun experience one to ten?

 

Justin Sylvester My fun experience, honestly, when you’re on the carpet, E has two positions. One is fun and two is not fun. I was on the fun one. Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, because this girl, Zuri Hall, who I work with, she is at the first position, which is right at the door. So everyone’s kind of nervous. So by the time they come down the carpet they see the bar, they see five other people, they’ve warmed up with Access Hollywood. They’re like, okay, him, let’s go to the black gay guy. He’s gonna be fun.

 

Louis Virtel Well, that’s interesting that you say that because I feel like by that time they also might be worn down by the repetitive questioning.

 

Guy Branum Okay, you and Zuri were both bringing amazing energy to the red carpet, but I do think the question of what kind of questions you ask them, what set up do you give to this person who is distracted and paying attention to their outfit? How much of a question do you think you should deliver to them? Here’s my jam.

 

Justin Sylvester You have to put yourself in the mind of the viewer. So, Zuri, I know, is business. That bitch is a CPA. If you put it on the card, she is going to say it. So, if you come up, she’s gonna ask you what went into this film? What’s happening, da-da-da, with this, that, and the other? When you come to me, I’m thinking about the viewer because I’m a fan of these carpets. Now, if I’m Sally from Minnesota at home and I haven’t seen Sorry Baby, are Timothee Chalamet and Marty Supreme. What I’m gonna enjoy is, damn bitch, that’s a big ass diamond ring, tell me about that gown, who you wanna see in here, how fucked up you gonna get at the after party. Those things, I think people wanna see more of from me.

 

Guy Branum You had Teyana Taylor sell the garment. Like, you did the work, it was an amazing dress with so much going on, but it would be easy to miss that if you were just watching the telecast and you did such a great job of telling that story. Thank you. Thank you

 

Louis Virtel I just want to say if you were ever a drag queen, you could go by the name Sally from Minneapolis at home. I will do it. We will get to the Globes momentarily, but first, we also had another entertainment bonanza this weekend, which is, I think, 71 episodes of The Trader’s Draft. It was actually three, but…

 

Justin Sylvester By the way, they are so smart. It took Peacock a minute to learn. You have to get people hooked in. You can’t give them one episode. So for them to give me three, because I normally wait until two or three come out. Then I jump into a show. They were smart and they gave us all three at one time. But also just truly elegant.

 

Guy Branum Producing. I think that ultimately the traders is a bad game.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, it’s the worst game, the best entertainment.

 

Guy Branum Yes, it’s a game where the best person is not going to win, but the decisions that they made this season.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, do it, put it out there. If you haven’t seen all three episodes of The Traders yet, I don’t understand why you’re listening to this. I don’t understand what your life is like, go ahead.

 

Guy Branum Two housewives and a man whose job is to be an idiot, as are traitors, magnificent. Like the great thing about the traitors is getting to watch these very different reality skillsets and realizing that the people who are on the fighting shows and the sex shows have deductive skills that are equal to that of the gamers and subtleties that the gamers could never understand. Also, Donna Kelsey as the secret.

 

Louis Virtel Well, let’s let’s get into the centerpiece of these first three episodes is that Donna Kelsey, who is not involved in entertainment in any way, other than I guess she has some sort of genetic gift for Super Bowl rings, etc. And she will soon be the mother-in-law of Taylor Swift. And this is a huge spoiler. But ended up being the secret trader who was feeding the nominations to the other three traders who actually didn’t know who she is. I just want to say from a producing standpoint, and I agree with you, usually this is an immaculately produced show, that is a lot of narrative responsibility to put on someone with no TV experience.

 

Justin Sylvester By the way, and that’s how she ended up getting caught.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, she was clearly nervous like someone playing mafia at a party while you’re sweating.

 

Guy Branum 100%. No. I will say it is brilliant producing because this is the first time that we had, I actually didn’t watch season three. I’m assuming it’s the first that we have Secret Trader. Don’t give that to Lisa Rinna this year. Don’t it to somebody who’s going to be too good at it this year, let Lisa Rinner boo. We keep finding new and better uses for Lisa Rinne is one of the things that makes me happiest on this planet. Babe, it’s been happening since 1990.

 

Justin Sylvester This bitch, I’m telling you, share a cockroach and Lisa Rinna will survive the apocalypse. Lisa Rinne has- Because all three of them keep working. 100%. They love a job. Yes. She loves a W-2. Okay?

 

Guy Branum She really does like at the Los Culturistas Awards They had her like model outfits and like nobody was selling it harder at the Los Cultura research awards, you know, like she was she gives a hundred and ten percent every time and like she’s giving a hundred And fifty on these traders

 

Louis Virtel No, she constantly sees every entertainment opportunity as an opportunity. 100%. And I think she is the highlight of this season so far, but I feel like she’s also shouldering a lot of the personality responsibility right now. She and Candice. Yes. Candice is also fun.

 

Guy Branum But one of the things I find amazing is that they really have, what a parfait of a season. It’s just layered. And realizing that there are some of these quieter personalities, like Kristin Kish, like really smart people who are going to like lay low for a while, and if they don’t get randomly booted, are going be the end game. It was really… Hopefully, yeah. Yeah, it was really interesting seeing Funches run Funche be like, you know, such a lightning rod. Agro for Rod.

 

Louis Virtel But also, let’s talk about, okay, so the traders are indeed Lisa Rinna, Candice, and Rob from Love Island. Rob R. From Love Island, yes. And he absolutely is not allowed to have a full surname. Rob R., exactly. Always.

 

Justin Sylvester It’s a screen name, it’s what we got on Gay.com back in the early 2000s.

 

Guy Branum Justin you can’t take me back. You’re taking me back also people’s names weren’t Rob are they were Abercrombie Boy There was some version of Abercrumbie Boy

 

Louis Virtel But let’s talk about first of all, one of the challenges the traders had to do was burn a card of somebody to eliminate them in person, as in like they had to pull off a little stunt outside of the round table where they murder people. Anyway, to create a distraction, Candice at one point goes, let’s do a conga line. Ma’am, are you Bugs Bunny? That is the worst decoy tactic I have ever seen on a reality show. But also it was so blatant that it kind of worked.

 

Guy Branum It was ridiculous idiocy. She pulled it off, like, Rob Sestrino, a guy who has made a business out of analyzing reality shows, immediately smelled what was going on. And that Rob R. From Love Island, A, was able to instinctually understand, oh, the cards are going to be behind like the death picture. And understand we got to get rid of Rob Sistrino because he understands what’s going on, brilliant work from somebody whose job has previously just been not wearing a shirt.

 

Justin Sylvester While Candace is like, I don’t even know who got murdered tonight. Like literally, they were like, I don’t know.

 

Guy Branum But there’s a lot of working trust, and I think that housewives are good at having alliances that do not need to have a huge amount of regular communication. Like there is a degree of trust involved. You’re right, you’re right. You’re right, you’re right.

 

Justin Sylvester Sorry, Lisa Rinna just voted off Portia. Is there a degree of trust involved?

 

Louis Virtel Though I will say this about the housewives this season, usually I feel like we’re left with somebody who doesn’t understand the rules of the game. And I feel everybody seems like they were at least briefed. Which is exciting. I mean, there are people before who are like, oh, I thought I was on The Bachelor or whatever.

 

Guy Branum I mean, the thing is, is like, Lisa voting off Portia is like Real Housewives also understand how to gang up. I mean like, that was a situation where there was a clear gang going after her. She needed to be with the numbers. Like the way that absolutely everyone at the table, except for Michael Rappaport, I think, voted for Donna Kelsey once it was clear it was Donna Kelsey, like even Ron Funches, who was like her closest ally. Let’s turn to Rappapport, come on.

 

Louis Virtel Also, excuse me. You’re telling me this man has like wriggled his way in with Housewives fans somehow? Like people are endeared to this person in the universe. Just because he likes Housewives? Or like he’s nearish to them or something. He is not 1% watchably fun television. Somebody did point out that the way he holds a cup is so insane.

 

Justin Sylvester When he was drinking the water like this, I was like, you’re done.

 

Guy Branum Get him out of the house like it is exciting to see a straight man be shrill

 

Justin Sylvester Yes, you know, okay

 

Louis Virtel Because the TV show Shrell wasn’t even that true.

 

Justin Sylvester I think Michael does not know how to handle awkward silences. I think when it’s TV, when you’re there and you haven’t done reality TV before, he watches Housewives. He thinks that there has to be a fight every five seconds. So he is doing what he thinks, and he’s like an actor, he’s doing what he thinks reality TV would want. He’s

 

Guy Branum He’s an actor. He’s adding energy to what he thinks the text is. And it really is interesting to have like 70% of the people be experienced reality people. And then another 30% be these performers or moms from other lines of work who are just trying to sort of like pick up what’s going on.

 

Louis Virtel They’re also, I mean, I always bring up the mole in relationship to this show because I think it’s a superior version of the show, but there’s always the one person in the cast who was doing so much that the rest of the cast thinks, well, that person’s not the mole. It’s like too insane. But then at the back of their head, they’re thinking he could be the mole, wait, they are the mole maybe. Yeah. So it’s sort of like, I don’t want to say it’s genius work on his part because he is infuriating. And it would be an insult to geniuses to call him geniuses, but something is going on.

 

Guy Branum But let’s be clear, Candice is doing too much. Lisa Rinna, brilliantly, is drafting behind her. And I hope- Thank you for putting this in Daytona 500 words. The thing is, the one time that the Traders made me happy was when Suri won, because Suri should have won Survivor at some point in time. She is a truly great strategist. And if Lisa Rinne is able to make it from starting Trader all the way to the end, I will be so happy for her and Harry, ultimately. Yeah.

 

Justin Sylvester We’re always happy for Harry. When I, before I got into E, I worked for Kyle Richards for five years. Oh, wow. Seriously. Yeah, worked for her for five. We’re going to have a conversation after the mics are off. And I remember meeting Lisa Rinna on season one of Housewives, because we used to have this big white party every year. Lisa Rinner came and I was like, fuck, I think Lisa Rinne would be a great housewife. Yeah. Like, you guys should get Lisa Rin on. And she was like, you think she would do it? I’m like, I think Lisa Rinna would be down for it. And then a few seasons later, she came to me again. She was like hey, you remember that conversation we had? Like, Lisa Rinne’s names floated. And I remember running to the executive producer and I was like if you don’t back Lisa Rinner, you’re so stupid. How do you feel about making history? How do feel? I made it twice. I made twice. I called the executive producers. Garcelle co-hosted my TV show on E! One Day. Oh wow. And I turned to her and I said, you know what, you’d make a good Housewife. Would you ever consider doing it? She was like, I would have the conversation. I texted Alex Baskin, I still have the text message on my phone and said, Garcelle Beauvis would love a conversation about Housewives. And she was on the show six months later.

 

Guy Branum I mean, Garcelle would be so delightful of a trader.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she should go also by the way. She was really good on the other black girl. Good actress.

 

Guy Branum Um, but I still just want to say the greatest Traders moment that we ever got was when I think it was season two, um, when Phaedra from Atlanta made her magnificent orations, like beautifully setting out her argument and then the former speaker of the house of commons, like the greatest debating institution in the English speaking language. Turned to A Real Housewife of Atlanta and said, how did you do that? Like, it was just magnificent to realize what these skill sets are. And like, I believe that this season will be a magnificent inflorescence. And I am just waiting, like that Kristin Kish is combining like the stealth abilities.

 

Louis Virtel This is a Top Chef contest for people who don’t know.

 

Guy Branum Like, and a beautiful soft-boot lesbian who understands how to keep, form a model, like, she’s going to keep a low profile, but there will come a point in time when it comes together for her, I hope she gets the chance to really- She’ll cut a bitch. I think that she could take this season down in a magnificent way.

 

Louis Virtel She’s hot. No, she is. Yes. Also, like, fierce intellect. Yeah. Christian Kish, come and keep it.

 

Guy Branum Yeah!

 

Louis Virtel Let’s unpack it. Can I come back? Yeah, we’ll see.

 

Guy Branum I met her at the Emmys last year and she was really nice.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, very well. I was very gorgeous. Okay. Well, we have a lot more important entertainment things to discuss namely the Golden Globes We’ll discuss Nikki Glaser’s monolog. We’ll discussed Justin’s experience there. Hopefully hopefully very little trauma. Yeah, very little drama

 

Guy Branum Oh, that’s exciting. We’ll discuss that beige suit. Thank you.

 

Louis Virtel Very good, very good. And then also our interview today happens to be the star, if you ask me, of the Golden Globes, Eva Victor, writer, director, star of Sorry Baby. You might know of this movie now because Julia Roberts mentioned on the Golden Globe’s telecast that Eva Victor was their hero. Eva comes to us today and discusses the movie, the heaviness of the film, the lightness of the film, and why it’s one of my favorite movies of the year. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel The 83rd Golden Globes aired on Sunday, bringing big wins to one battle after another. Timothee Chalamet, The Pict, which also just came back, and more. We’ll get into all of that and those wins in a bit, but why don’t we start with the ceremony itself, hosted by Nikki Glaser for the second year in a row. Guy, Justin, are you happy that she came back to host?

 

Justin Sylvester By the way, give her that job for the next five years. Yeah, truly. Is, there’s nothing more fearless than a white lady with new veneers.

 

Louis Virtel The newest. The nearest.

 

Justin Sylvester She got that new money, she got the hair, she got the glow up and that bitch is fearless and that’s what the Golden Globes need. They need somebody who’s not afraid to go up there because I forget this comedian’s name who did the Oscars a few years back but he went up he would do a joke and when he got to the punchline he would kind of turn his back to the audience because he couldn’t deliver it. I bet you you forgot his name. He was a rando comedian.

 

Louis Virtel Are you talking about Gerard Carmichael on the Globes? No, no, no. It was like two or three years ago.

 

Guy Branum Are you talking about Jo Koy at the Globes?

 

Justin Sylvester He couldn’t land the plane because he was so uptight about it and so afraid. She’s like, no, motherfucker, I’m going to look Leo in his eye and say this goddamn joke all the way through.

 

Louis Virtel Well, by the way, the difference between Jo Koy and Nikki Glaser is Jo Koy received those jokes or wrote those jokes 10 minutes beforehand. Nikki Glaser has tried this material 500 times a night at every club in L.A.

 

Guy Branum Yeah, I mean, truly it is amazing to me. I know both Nicky and Jo, and it is insane to me that Jo didn’t have like a cadre of people that he could go to and trust to be able to put together a better monolog than what he had. He was doing some of his stage material up there. And Nikki went into this job with the specter of Jo over her. Like he had failed and like there was this distinctive failure around it. It was like, well, they stop having a comedian if I mess it up. And I feel like her first year, she was a little bit more worried and a little more contained. And this year she was able to have more fun with it and completely own it. She did that song parody. She did some jokes that were really, really aggressive. And there have been so many female comics who have tried to present themselves as a successor to Joan Rivers in one way or another. And I feel like Nikki is just doing the work of showing us in a non-masal form what Joan’s career could have looked like if she had had more opportunity.

 

Louis Virtel And also, she’s just so perfect for this occasion, which is the rowdy bachelor party before the glamorous royal wedding that is the Oscars.

 

Guy Branum And the thing is is like we have so many straight men who come to host award shows and then shit on award shows. Yes

 

Louis Virtel And the movies. That was a huge problem with Jo Koy.

 

Guy Branum Yes, and it’s like having somebody who actually enjoys the outfits and the celebrities and the movies, they’re celebrating this thing, but also poking fun at it at the same time because it is a little ridiculous. And like all award shows are ridiculous, the Globes is a lot more ridiculous.

 

Justin Sylvester The Globes is the best one. I always tell people it’s like a homecoming where all the private school girls invited public school guys as their date. You remember like just all the public school guy came and they brought Ecstasy and they brought Everclear and they’re going to have a good time. And it’s the 90s. It just is that place. The TV people getting to be there. The TV People get lit.

 

Guy Branum Steven what’s-his-name-from-adolescence being dumbstruck by Queen Latifah. That’s what you want. That’s you want!

 

Louis Virtel And also like one of those ceremonies where you realize exactly how short everybody is basically because everybody’s standing it’s like oh my god you’re like one nine

 

Justin Sylvester My favorite is, and whoever the shady queen is that works that microphone, there is a shady queen in the back. If you ever watch people come up from the back, they call their names, and all of a sudden you see the microphone either drop or go up, that queen waits for the fucking camera to hit that microphone and just brings it down.

 

Guy Branum But Nikki, I thought, was really, really bold during her monolog and then very targeted afterwards. There wasn’t too much other than the song parody after that monolog. And the monolog hit hard. That Epstein joke was so beautifully composed. It was indirect, but everybody knew what was hitting. Being a live show in front of a bunch of drunk people, there is this very narrow line of you need to satisfy Susan at home in Minnesota. It was in Minnesota, and then you also have to be making George Clooney laugh with a joke that will feel personal to him, you know, Susan’s not going to get the Lake Como jokes, you know?

 

Justin Sylvester Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel You know, no, it surprises me actually that she tests all this material in clubs because obviously the people reacting to jokes there are not the same as who’s at the Golden Globes. But I also respect that because I think what you do when you and I just know this casually, I don’t know Nikki Glaser very well, but once you’ve tested material like this time and time again, you realize there’ll be fluke times where it bombs and fluke time work goes really well so you can take the averages and figure out which jokes work best.

 

Guy Branum And also you have to have some sense of what do I want to do, what do do I my spin to be, and what are the little things that the people at the comedy store wouldn’t get that this audience is really gonna eat up because making that audience love you is gonna make for a better show and it’s also gonna help your career, you know? Like you want Julia Roberts to like you.

 

Justin Sylvester Right. And that’s why she didn’t use any of the Julia Roberts jokes. You know that, right? No, she had tried and tested a lot of Julia Roberts’ jokes and they kept on bombing because you can’t make fun of Julia.

 

Louis Virtel That fucking standing, oh, that’s fucking- Actually, I’m just gonna say, don’t make fun of Julia Roberts. I’m on their side. No, you cannot make fun of Julia Robert. Not the Pelican Brief.

 

Guy Branum It was very beautiful to watch this woman who, you know, when I was a young man, as a 19-year-old she came out and was an Aunjanue, come out and be the Elizabeth Taylor of the awards who gets the standing ovation and hands out best comedy.

 

Justin Sylvester Babe, babe. She was America’s first sex worker that we accepted.

 

Louis Virtel That is correct.

 

Justin Sylvester I wanted to be Vivian.

 

Guy Branum The woman who taught us sex work is work.

 

Justin Sylvester Exactly. So she is an icon.

 

Louis Virtel And that you could be friends with Laura Sancho-Kakamo.

 

Guy Branum And don’t kiss on the lips.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, Julia ended up being the star of the series. I would say she’s more a Sophia Loren at this point than Elizabeth Taylor because she just comes and you realize, oh, I’m at the Royal Palace. Right. Yeah. You know what I mean? She’s a Jane Fonda. Yeah, a little bit of a Jane Fonda, yes. They should hang out more. Cluny.

 

Guy Branum Clooney understanding that it was Julia’s moment and you come out and do a bit about how you didn’t get a standing ovation like yes I liked that little bit that he did. It was awesome

 

Louis Virtel No, also in the monolog, I think my favorite joke, and again, I can’t really pick a moment where I thought Nikki like, oh, I wish she didn’t say that. Most of the jokes were great. My favorite joke was when she made fun of Leonardo DiCaprio for having a young girlfriend and then followed up by saying, I have to make that joke because we don’t know anything about you. That is so smart. We are all living in this universe where we have this giant celebrity here and all we know is that he dances a little weird at Coachella and he’s always dating somebody named Bar Refiele. That’s it.

 

Justin Sylvester But that’s why he’s successful. You guys, we don’t know shit about George Clooney until George Clooney comes on a carpet and says, me and my wife haven’t fought in three years. I’ll see you in seven years. Adele is like, hey, here’s the album. Buy these $15,000 tickets. And we’re like, we didn’t know anything about you. Yay!

 

Guy Branum That’s not remotely true. Alan Carr is constantly telling us what’s going on in her life and what she is shame-eating after a breakup. You have to watch the Graham Norton show for that. Adele only spills in Britain, but it’s the thing you get from having somebody who actually legitimately cares about the subject matter as the host and in that writer’s room. That writer’s was full of ladies and gay guys, whom we know, and they are able to give insight and subtlety to these jokes and not just make.

 

Louis Virtel Obvious dead baby movies this year and also they’ve written for several award shows so they’ve had to write Leonardo DiCaprio jokes before and so I’m sure there’s a little bit of angst and like how can I approach this again that isn’t just reiterating the Tina Fey, Amy Poehler line of jokes we’ve heard ten years ago there was a lot of

 

Guy Branum As Louis Virtel and I learned when writing on Fashion Police, once you write 20 jokes about yellow dresses, then you start writing some interesting jokes about yellow dress. Yeah, that’s right.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. It turns out I do have opinions on Kerry Washington, and they’re vicious. Um, let’s see what else in the monolog did we see? Oh, that’s another joke. I was really impressed by the way and You know, it was a lightly lightly, um political night like not much was said But I was so impressed with that joke because it’s right there cbs news. It’s like i’m solving a whodunit or something or something.

 

Justin Sylvester She said it on CBS, which is kind of the genius play. And we have to remember this, everyone’s like, oh my gosh, she’s going to get fired. CBS is going to have a talk with her. Rich people love to be called out. Like as much as like, you know, oh, my God, please don’t make fun of Julia Roberts or George Clooney. Rich people loved to be call out because that means that they are famous enough to be in the monolog.

 

Guy Branum And also Billy.

 

Justin Sylvester Beginners like to be whipped and have their balls stepped on, you know? When you’re talking shit about Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez walking into a club looking trashy or him looking like he’s on HGH, that man is masturbating to that Daily Mail article because you are talking about him.

 

Guy Branum You know what you’re talking about. Like, I want to say that that CBS joke is reflective of Nikki as a woman achieving a place of respect where she can, like, take her position for granted, but also still doing the work, still understanding that she needs to prove herself. And the ultimate expression of that was Wanda Sykes showing up there, like Wanda Sykes, who is the comedian that all of these, like straight male dude comedians in their sixties think they are, like who really. Still writes jokes and is amazingly funny, but doing that bit where she like made, what’s his name? Not Bill Maher, Ricky Gervais. She accepted for Ricky Gerovais and.

 

Louis Virtel God and trans people guys that was beyond good. That was the next level that room was electrified by that moment Wanda Sykes in her own way is obviously a superstar comedian Yeah, but and and by the way has hosted the Oscars before in her Own way she’s kind of underrated yes I don’t think people think of her as that cutting or that like being right on the kind like sort of be aware of The news etc, but she can really cut into that and like you’re laughing, but it’s smarter than people give her credit for I think

 

Guy Branum Every one of her specials is giving you smarter, more political material than anyone else of her caliber. And let us not forget, not that long ago, Netflix turned down a special from her. She didn’t get that much money just two or three specials ago because people were like, it’s Wanda Sykes, who’s this?

 

Justin Sylvester And it’s like, she’s a goddamn legend. No, she is a goddamn Legend. And on the red carpet, people were like, oh my God, I just met Wanda Zykes. I’m like, yeah, bitch, Wanda’s Zyke is the one. Yeah.

 

Guy Branum The other best thing about Wanda Sykes is she and her lovely wife Alex have a good time. Like Wanda is not showing up to something and having a drink or four. She’s cutting it up with Sean Penn in the bathroom.

 

Justin Sylvester She’s got that Amex out. She is like, Julia, you wanna lie? Oh, that is diced. No clumps in that. She’s like, who brought this baby powder?

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Sean Penn, by the way, I do think it is important at every award ceremony that we make fun of how one guy looks. And I’m so glad Sean Penn came up looking like, you know, at the end- Would you like to quote your tweet, Lewis? Sure. I’ll start with that, which is Sean Penn has been electrocuted every day of his life since 1981. But in general, do you know what he kind of looks like now? At the end of a Fire Marshall Bill sketch on In Living Color, when like the fire extinguisher is blown up in his face, like that level of like, and now the sketch is over.

 

Guy Branum And as somebody with, like, a really, really showy performance, I love that we have all agreed he does not need another Academy Award. Right. Also, I think he needs it.

 

Louis Virtel But it’s interesting because early on I thought he was going to win and now it’s like completely faded from possibility.

 

Justin Sylvester Yeah, but if you win the Golden Globe, you don’t win the Academy Award. You think so? Yes. Even in the supporting categories? If you look at the critics’ choice, the critics choice kind of gives you like kind of the overview of what’s going to happen at the Oscars, because the critics take themselves seriously, you know, the Academy takes themselves seriously. Golden Globes is a party. It’s about giving your best friend who did the best work that year the award. And they kind of have different voting categories.

 

Guy Branum I think since the voting body changed on the Golden Globes, it’s not a good predictor in the same way. The attitude black people? Is that what you’re talking about?

 

Louis Virtel Well, that’s what I was going to say also about the Golden Globes in terms of the awards rollout. The Golden Globs used to be dependably racist, and now I don’t know what we depend on them for.

 

Guy Branum The thing is, is their job used to be to be hoary. Their job used be, oh, Sharon Stone sent us all Cartier watches, I guess she’s getting a Golden Globe. And now they’re like trying to be responsible and more international. And they seem to be like highlighting international films that aren’t going to get awards other places. And I’m like, I don’t know if this is useful. Like The Secret Agent, et cetera. I’m still here last year with Fernanda Torres. Here’s what The Globes is useful for. The Gloves is useful to provide us with two nominees for best actor and best actress and allow them to duke it out. High school debate style by each giving their own cute little speech. And I truly think that Jesse Buckley and Rose Byrne were neck and neck. Rose looked amazing. She was befuddled. And then she gave us the Bobby Cannavale, is it a reptile expo? It was cute and relatable. Excuse me.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me, let me do the impression it is you couldn’t be here. We’re gonna get be in a dragon. Thank you Thank you.

 

Guy Branum Literally, literally. And then Jesse Buckley with the fucking Polish second AD making beef stew, like that was

 

Louis Virtel She took three extra beats to deliver that story. But yes.

 

Justin Sylvester Give it to Roseburn all day. Roseburn, did you see the movie? Oh, yes.

 

Louis Virtel I have to wonder. They are on platonic together.

 

Justin Sylvester Rose Byrne in this movie, and I love Jessie Buckley, and Hamnet was great, and like, whatever, and I know the Oscars are going to give it to her because they love an ingenue. They love an agenue. But if you’re somebody who makes too much money, Rose Byrrne in the Oscar’s mind, makes too money. They won’t give it you. That’s why every film that wins at the Oscurs has made $3.75 at the box office. Because they love a student project. So you’re just saying…

 

Guy Branum So you’re just saying I mean not that

 

Justin Sylvester Like I think you made a bunch of money, but you’re just saying Rose works too much I’m saying that Rose seems too successful for the Oscars Whereas Jesse Buckley is someone fresh someone new and by the way, you don’t want that curse on you

 

Louis Virtel The Oscars curse is the worst. I agree with you that there are reasons maybe not to have voted for Rose Byrne, but at the same time I feel like she’s the perfect person to win an Oscar because everybody has loved her in something. You know, she’s in every genre of something. It could be Damages, it could have been the movie Spy, it could have any of the lovely projects she’s done with her husband Bobby Cannavale, which are like Myriad, by the way. So I feel like everyone kind of has an in with her. That said, Jessie Buckley has the advantage of, oh, we’ve nominated her once before. It feels like somebody who should win an Oscar. She’s in the traditional mold of an Oscar winner. Here’s the jam.

 

Justin Sylvester You have to, if you were nominated for an Oscar, it becomes your job to go to every party. That’s why Laura Dern is at the opening of everything. And she thinks the Academy, even if she’s dying, she’s like, I just want to thank the Academy before I leave. Rose Byrne does not have the time. Rose Byrrne has projects, a husband, kids. She got a life. She’s got to change her tampon every fucking four hours. She ain’t got time for anything. And what’s sad is, It becomes this shaking hands project of how many screenings can you go to? Can you get to the opening of the new toilet at the Academy Museum? And that’s the fucked up part of the Oscars. But if I was Oscar nominated, babe, I would live at the academy.

 

Louis Virtel I think also maybe she would have a better chance if she were in supporting because I feel like her career resembles a little bit Alice and Janne who stopped a victory that year and also was the most employed person of all time.

 

Justin Sylvester Who else was in that movie? What do you mean? And if I had legs?

 

Guy Branum Yeah, there’s no one else. But also, like I do think her best chance comes from the fact that like the actor’s branch is older actors who have had to take good jobs and bad jobs. And I think that they will be like, this is a girl who works and have respect for that. But I do you think the specter of like, Jessie Buckley is somebody who’s been nominated a couple of times, she is respectable and is probably gonna get one of these days. Let us never forget, we didn’t give Tom Cruise’s Academy Award for Magnolia and we have suffered for it since.

 

Justin Sylvester No, we have not. Tom Cruise has made a billion dollars at the box office because we did not give him that situation. I think that’s true. Grant Powell’s also going to make a billion dollars in his life because he did not get that. It fucks your whole life up. It really does.

 

Louis Virtel No, I think for a minute after Leonardo DiCaprio won the Oscar for the Revenant, it’s like we forgot, oh, it was exciting when you didn’t have this.

 

Justin Sylvester Because the movies were so good and then everyone

 

Louis Virtel And then everyone watched that Oscars here, you know, they’re like,

 

Guy Branum You know, they’re like, oh, it’s like all coming to this point. Like, it can be fun to watch somebody hunt after one. Like, sometimes it can go really bad. But like Amy Adams hunting after one has been good. Glenn Close, it has been hit or miss.

 

Justin Sylvester Yeah, but the wife was.

 

Guy Branum The wife was amazing. There was also 10 year- You did not like-

 

Justin Sylvester You did not like the wife? I loved her. Oh, I…

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes, love the wife.

 

Guy Branum I mean, but Albert Knobbs?

 

Louis Virtel It also must be said, I don’t know if I’ve ever just said this before, so the year Glenn Close lost to Olivia Colman, again, Olivia Colmen, brilliant, and I like her in every way. She was amazing in The Father, for example, and Lost Daughter. It was fucking rude not to give it to Glenn Close. It was a fabulous performance. It was more of a performance than Olivia Colmon, who’s in that movie a third of the time. So it was nothing but rude to Glenn close. I don’t believe in the idea of snubs except that year.

 

Guy Branum Do you think that is when she should have won? Yes. You should have been in.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sorry, no, no. Dangerous liaisons 88. Yes, dangerous liaison. Don’t look at me like that ever again.

 

Justin Sylvester HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Louis Virtel The accused, this is an Oscar winning picture, does that sound right to you?

 

Guy Branum Look, you cast two closeted lesbians in a movie, you’re gonna have sexual tension.

 

Louis Virtel No, I don’t think we’ve done that since. Like Kelly McGillis and Jodie Foster, we were on our shit that year. Holy shit.

 

Justin Sylvester I love that Jodie Foster.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please. Also, I’m loving her more than ever. Her interviews are great. She just did another one unpacking her speech at the Golden Globes.

 

Guy Branum Oh, I have not seen it yet.

 

Louis Virtel It was Daniel D’Addario, and she’s talking about how it was strange to sort of put into words that she was coming up, but also not really coming out. She just talked about having a ski buddy. By the way, that’s called freedom. Yeah, I guess. That’s called free-

 

Guy Branum Also, I just want to say, Jodie Foster, Timmy Chalamet, doing those interviews in French, always a good time.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s that brings me back to classic Jane Fonda Anthony Perkins. We could go to that.

 

Guy Branum But speaking of French and pop musics in French backing two men having sex with each other, but you cannot see their balls. Yes. It was very exciting. We had Conor story and Hudson Williams because key to rivalry is the only thing that anyone wants to talk about. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Do you feel like the ceremony both gave them too big a platform and not enough of one? I was like, we didn’t know what to do with them exactly because they’re a confusing mix for that room where it’s like, so how do we mix like Connor’s story with the secret agent guy? They’re on a… Canadian…

 

Guy Branum They’re on a Canadian cable show, but they both have this wonderful sense. So I saw them, there was a party to like rebrand the SAG awards and they came and they flirted with every gay guy and woman over 40. Like it was their goddamn job. It is. Chippendale shit. I know, but whoever prepped them, thank God. And they were like doing the work, but those boys are good actors and they are playful. Like Hudson Williams wants to show us that he is more charismatic than Shane is on the show. And he’s doing a great job. Connor’s story, when I cornered him, believe me, I corner him, I was like, young man, you’re having a moment. You need to figure out what you’re going to do next. Good luck.

 

Louis Virtel I love how you’re like the fair-

 

Guy Branum Thank God, Mother and fucking Cinderella. Celeste Hom, of course. Okay, no, just a moment, Louis Vrtel is a person who approached me at Ackbar, Nyon, a decade ago, and essentially said, will you be my aunt? What are you doing reproaching me for being an aunt to other young men?

 

Justin Sylvester But it’s not a reproach, Mom. Who will you be my aunt? And by the way, I was right. I think that Hudson is going to be an Oscar-nominated actor. I think he’s gonna do that. I think the other one, who’s way more charismatic, way more into interviews, is going be the jewel. She’s going to Lady Bridgerton. She’s gonna be everywhere. She’s gotta be on every show. She’s got to do everything. She’s the personality. That other one is the business.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I also think they are battling each other internally, like this is the heated rivalry that none of us are seeing to get on the white lotus first. That’s where they belong. That’s very exciting. Because they both play up a sinisterness and a sexuality that by the way, we don’t have another TV shows because TV is not sexy anymore.

 

Guy Branum No, you wanna know who I think is gonna be the business? Francois Arnaud, the guy who plays Scott. Because like all of this attention is going at Connor Story and Hudson Williams. And I think Francois is just gonna book, book, book,book, book.

 

Justin Sylvester Well, the second book is about his character. So season two is going to be about him. Oh, okay. Yeah, so he’s going to have like… About Francois? About Francoise. Yeah, Scott and Kip. Scott and kip are the second books, so shit’s about to get real for them.

 

Louis Virtel We’ve never had barista core television before, and so I’m still reeling from the sexuality of that.

 

Guy Branum But that’s actually an interesting strategy because if you did have a lower commitment from conor story and huntsman williams It would free them up to go do other projects and being able to balance that It’s so hard for these kids who have like a big moment And then they want to get away from this show that made them and like bridgerton, you know it like tour

 

Justin Sylvester turn apart like yeah but look you got to be careful who you’re trying to get away from yeah you know what I mean like when they say seven years with the devil they mean seven years the devil like if you got a Shady Queen who’s like no you’re here for seven years or if you have somebody who’s like let’s figure it out let’s work it out let’s see if we can make it work like you have to be really specific and really careful who sign that seven-year contract I would just never get on Shonda Rhimes’ bat’s eye.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Literally.

 

Justin Sylvester I do not want to fight Shonda. No.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please. No, she could be anywhere at any time, please She’s like the wind. I’d rather fight Gale live on CBS But also it must be said Connor story and Hudson Williams I thought they were better during their interviews than during their bit

 

Justin Sylvester Yes, which went on a little long by the way It wasn’t their fault whoever wrote it wrote it too long It should have been concise and to the point felt like they needed one more rehearsal or something

 

Guy Branum Presenter copy is hard and so frequently at award shows. I don’t know what the answer is for the Golden Globes. You have different writers for the monolog and for the presenter copy. And I think that is ultimately a bad choice and leads to good monologs and so-frequently bad present.

 

Justin Sylvester Let me tell you what you do, I just did it at the Critics’ Choice Awards. I got my copy for my Critics Choice Awards the night before rehearsals, I went into rehearsals with a copy that fit me, changed a motherfucking bit, and had a moment at the Critic’s Choice Awards, now you’re never gonna see it because everyone was looking at Sarah Snook’s ass when she was walking off because it’s nice and delicious, but we had a good moment on the road.

 

Guy Branum Connor’s story was in a weekend clowning class six weeks ago. You cannot expect him to be rewriting copy. They have been good at their job because they do what they’re told.

 

Louis Virtel No, babe. Get back there and do it. People don’t understand, by the way. I know this from writing the second words last year. The celebrities will come up and like go to the teleprompter and like the smart ones will like put words in it that they want, even after this shit has been approved by their people 10,000 times. Edward Norton, I guess, has like an English degree. He comes up and he’s like, actually, I’m going to be saying this. He wrote Frida. He didn’t write the whole thing, did he?

 

Guy Branum He was a credited co-writer on Frida.

 

Louis Virtel I know he’s in it. Oh, okay. He’s fine. All right. Obviously, Fabulous and Primal Fear. And also on this podcast. Listen to it, people. Okay. Um, okay, more to come. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with the rest of our Golden Globes commentary. Timothy Chalamet, you know what I loved about him winning? He got up to that microphone. He basically whispered to us, I have a better speech coming, and walked off. He just is like, I know where the path is leading. Just let me get there. But for right now, you drunk people have fun. He knows it.

 

Guy Branum Fucking knows it. He went big and emotional at the critic’s choice. He went, you know, workman-like here. And I think he was signaling to us, like, thank you, and I’m not going to take up too much time because I’m going to get my moment at another time. But also really still stating his resume, stating, like you know I came here and lost a bunch. Don’t forget that.

 

Justin Sylvester Guys. Yeah, I’m sorry, babe. I went to see Marty Supreme at the theater and you know those old Hollywood tales where people are like, we sent a brick of cocaine to the set of Popeye because I felt like everybody did a bump before they started this movie. It was frantic. It was wild. It gave me fucking anxiety and I loved every minute of it and I just think this guy is going to be one of those people who just keeps on bringing in time and time again.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I just want to say quickly, the Fran in Frantic was direct, go ahead.

 

Guy Branum The great Rohita Kadambi, one of the best comics working in LA today, made the point to me that Timmy Chalamet, being with a Kardashian, means that he has the freedom to continue doing artistically interesting work. Thank you. That if he has a wife who is doing the billionaire job, he’s able to go do safty films, he’s able to do, you know, whatever artsy thing he wants to do. And if he ends up with, you know, some nice hostess from an Applebee’s, he’s going to have to make franchising movies so that he can pay for their house and for their children to go to the…

 

Louis Virtel That said, he does have like a palpable sense of pride in everything he does, and he’s talked about how Leonardo DiCaprio has said to him, no superhero movies. Yes. So I feel like the commandment is in place and he better not fucking cross me. No, he better, by the way, he’d better not.

 

Justin Sylvester A straight man is way more vicious than a straight woman, okay? When Leonardo Caprio tells you, do not do it, we’re doing this together, he means it. Right, precisely.

 

Guy Branum This is a little boy from subsidized artist housing in Manhattan, you know, like he understands the art coming first and I respect that.

 

Justin Sylvester Yeah. And by the way, listen, fuck what everybody says. I love Kylie Jenner. I think she’s great. I think her mom is great. You have to say that. No, I love them. I know that people hate them, but if someone gave me the opportunity that they had and my mom could have flipped me into a billionaire, you know what? I’m taking it. I’m not saying, oh, think about everybody else. No, fuck that. I’m takin’ the moment.

 

Guy Branum In the year of our Lord 2010, I asked Kris Jenner, so like all three of them are married now, what are you guys gonna do? To which she responded, I have two more at home. Yes. We all saw what came of that, but also Kylie Jenner. Oh, a form-fitting gold dress. I’m shocked. I would like a little personality, you know, with the three older girls having segueed out to some extent, I would, like, one of the two younger ones to decide I’m gonna have a personality, because we always had fucking Chloe. Here’s what always had flowing you can’t

 

Justin Sylvester You can’t give personality and I learned this from Matthew McConaughey’s wife, who is one of the most beautiful people in the goddamn world. And so was Irina Shayk when Bradley Cooper was on the carpet for his situation. When you’re going to these award shows and your fiance, boyfriend or husband is nominated and you have that body, you got to be so low key. You cannot come in a cutout, you can’t come out with your ass crack out, you cannot do it because you distract from that person. And there’s a big conversation that goes into that when you’re talking about stylists and everything else. That’s why the hot model wives always look a little like Handmaid’s Tale.

 

Guy Branum I mean, Kylie was wearing a great dress, but it was a great dressed that I’ve seen her sister wear better, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Okay, let’s see. What else happened? The pit was justly awarded this year and also, by the way, we have a new season of the pit Yes, which I can’t explain the magic of this show when it comes on like maybe nothing is even really happening They shuffle between patients really quickly. It’s immediately captivating and I think Katherine Lanasa is now one of my favorite actresses the past 10 years on TV

 

Guy Branum She’s amazing. Arcing 15 hours or whatever it is, is the amazing part. Like every season of that show is storming Normandy. It is building an arc in a way that we didn’t know was possible. And it’s just bigger than these 10 episode seasons. It really gets so much like momentum behind it. But I love that the Globes going extremely stingy with supporting for television meant that Catherine Lanasa had to not win something. She had been winning so hard for so long. And I’m also looking forward to whether season two will involve them opening up, who gets nominated for supporting, even though Catherine Lanasa is the best. But like, Erin Doherty from Adolescence was so amazing, and she’s been such a fun presence. And I like really truly hope that… A lesbian. Yes, and a lesbian kisses that girlfriend every time. Did she wear slightly too much of a dress to the Critics’ Choice Awards? 100%. But she’s a foreigner and she doesn’t understand our ways. But like I’m so excited to see what happens.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, but it also must be said like I feel like TV actors must feel fucking crazy at the Globes Because first of all the Emmys are fully in September like they’re four months ago So like the dust is settled on a lot of these TV shows I don’t know if they’re even craving another award or whatever But they are very much the sideshow to what people are really watching at the Golden Globes So I’m wondering if I’m hoping it’s a joyous occasion for everybody But it is shocking when you’re watching the ceremony How much of it is TV and how much you will not remember who wins on a TV show?

 

Guy Branum I think it is a mingle situation, but it is also a different game for somebody who is in prestige, limited televisions. Aaron Doherty, like, or what’s your name who played Princess Margaret the first two seasons of The Crown? The crown.

 

Louis Virtel Vanessa Kirby. Vanessa Kirby!

 

Guy Branum Vanessa Kirby, they are there to meet people to get into that next project. And I really, like, hope that everyone from adolescence was fucking, you know, making Oh, no, no.

 

Justin Sylvester Oh, no, no. They were, by the way, they were bumping, air dropping contacts. They’re doing all of it. The guys from the pit, they’re busy. The guys form the pit have to make 15 episodes of television. They’re not booking a movie. No. The one thing I will say, I think the only people that it’s hard for are the people who won the previous year, who are going up against newbies who have a hotter show. So the thought of going to Golden Globes after winning and having everyone around you, and not getting that again. It’s almost like a athlete winning five games in a row and then dropping the ball at the 10 yard line at the Super Bowl.

 

Louis Virtel Well, by the way, and that I think is something that happens at the Golden Globes a lot because they love awarding the newest thing on TV. You know, it’s like, you know, Ray Seahorn is going to win for Pluribus.

 

Guy Branum The Globes loves a princess, the Globes love setting a trend and because they are like off of the season they can really do something like that and like let us never forget they give a bunch of awards to Mozart in the jungle, you know? They swing weird sometimes, but I think it is establishing, I think Ray Seahorn is gonna be picking up an Emmy.

 

Louis Virtel Four or five years. I’ll say one or two. It’s an explosive beginning. When a show begins that explosively, I feel like it peters out quickly in the awards. It’s like a bear. Yeah.

 

Justin Sylvester Like the bear was like, Oh my God, season one and two and then three and four. You were like, wait, what?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Justin Sylvester Fucking love her. Also, she should be in, like, action movies.

 

Guy Branum She’s like 54 years old and looks insane. There is also something interesting about the fact that seasons don’t work like seasons anymore. And like the studio has been cleaning up, but they’re not gonna have a studio ready for next year’s Emmys. So it does sort of open things up. And as a producer of Hacks, I’m excited.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Now, we have to get into one of the more, I’ll say, dubious categories. This whole podcast situation, here’s my question. And by the way, this category was invented so that someone like Amy Poehler, a name we’re familiar with, who kind of belongs in the Golden Globes universe anyway, can win it. What happens next year? Can you nominate the same shows? Yeah. Does it have to be all new shows? No. What call is available then?

 

Guy Branum I mean, I feel like they were just, it’s the Globes. They are ultimately slutty and they just wanted the most famous people there. Like they made some gestures with like the Mel Robbins thing, but like, you know, would it kill us to have Georgia Harstark and Karen Kilgareff? You know, to have some people who like feel pub-cast-y. Yeah.

 

Justin Sylvester Yeah, you know, in full real, no, they want stars. Without being Nazis, without being Nazis. Right, yeah. They want stars, okay, that’s what they want. And they knew, I bet you I’m calling it right now, in the next 10 years, there’s going to be a reality TV.

 

Louis Virtel It’s weird to me that we have a podcast thing and not a reality

 

Justin Sylvester It’s coming because all the stars, all the celebrities, all they want to talk about is reality TV. They love Mormon wives. They love Andrew K. They want to be near them. They want see them in person. It’s this weird, weird thing. So I think the Golden Globes, because they like that star power and they love a petting zoo, they’re going to put them in.

 

Guy Branum To explain to someone why Maura Higgins was there and why Maury Higgens was wearing that much cape or shawl you know it like I do like that they use these moments to sort of like put people out there and give them a TV moment

 

Louis Virtel Also, you’re right. I’ve never really thought about it, but we’re in this world right now where the thing to bring up to be relatable is the reality TV you stan. You know what I mean? Like the Andy Cohn universe is dependent on someone like Julia Roberts dropping in and be like, this is my favorite Housewife. I can do this Housewives mom. He’s our greatest journalist. By the way. Oh, it seems so obvious the way you put it. Yes. Right. He’s at Barbara Walters.

 

Guy Branum I mean he really does he gets people to say things that no one else will do I think he’s a good person? Oh

 

Louis Virtel One highlight, sorry, low light of the ceremony, was sinners winning whatever the box office award is. I love an award where you win it and then you immediately feel insulted. Like, oh, my movie matters because it made money. Like you’re secretly applauding the audience and not the film.

 

Guy Branum I mean, I think if nothing else, if the Globes presents two nominees to be best actor and best actress, it’s now presenting three nominees to be Best Picture. We had one bad off or another, we had Hamnet, and then also Sinners had that moment. It was really exciting that when Sinners took the stage, it was a white guy who started talking, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just all, let’s keep things centered in this America. Yeah. But… It was really unfortunate that you didn’t have more moments for like the sparkle of that movie. It was the one movie you saw this year that was set in a place in a world you hadn’t seen before and you were hungry to see more of. And it was just delicious. Is it genre? Yes, but we’ve gone genre in so many ways. Like it’s gotten so much more respectable in the last couple of years to be doing something that is a horror film or an action film or whatever. It’s kind of like this year.

 

Louis Virtel Here’s Parasite, where it warps between genres, but does them all really well and as a fan of those genres.

 

Justin Sylvester Well, if I had legs, I’d kick you. It was under comedy, right? You know what I mean? Like it doesn’t matter, but I think Sinners is like a Tom Cruise movie like they respect Tom Cruise They respect what he does, but he makes too much money and it’s a shitty thing because Sinners was beautifully shot It was amazingly cast it was the story that everybody was talking about all year long But I think because it was so successful they shit on it and they should have awarded it

 

Guy Branum We have, we have such limited numbers of precedents for like black actors winning lead roles, you know, and it really does have to be something that is like respectable in all of the ways. I mean, I guess you could say that like Denzel winning for training day, he was like kind of a bad guy, which was a little bit bold or something like that. But I really do think if Sinners has a chance to break through, it is in best actor. Because like- Michael B. Jordan. Michael B Jordan is just doing such good work and had to do so much work having to shoot two roles. But I think it is that situation of like, his body is so good. Everybody is looking at him and saying- His body’s tea. Like, this is a person who can go make a billion dollars at the box office. Why on earth would we give him an Academy Award when little Timmy we know would be crushed by trying to do an action movie that wasn’t entirely green screen. And by

 

Justin Sylvester By the way, if Michael B. Jordan had gotten in the press pit and said, you know what, I gained 30 pounds for this role. I wanted him to be a little flabby. They just want you to get out of your comfort zone. Charlize Theron had to turn into a serial killing lesbian who gained 45 to get that Oscar. Halle Berry had to take her clothes off and fuck Billy Bob Thornton, which I would fuck Billy Thorntons tomorrow.

 

Louis Virtel That’s an interesting movie, by the way. That should be discussed more often.

 

Justin Sylvester But they just wanted him to do that and that’s the crazy part is he didn’t even need to do that.

 

Guy Branum I’m a little mad that Michael B. Jordan, wait, did he win at Critics Choice? No. Oh, okay. I think maybe he could win the SAG. And I would really be excited if he wins the SAg and gets the opportunity.

 

Louis Virtel Like against Timothee Chalamet?

 

Justin Sylvester He could. No way, no way. I don’t think there’s gonna be a sweep. Okay. You don’t for Timothy Chalamet. I don’t think there is gonna be a sweep for Timothy chalamet, I think that Michael B. Jordan has a chance to do it.

 

Louis Virtel And I think if he has a chance, it is with other actors. I think Timothee Chalamet is going to be all elbows all the way up to the final winner’s program. But I must say about Michael B. Jordan, where I am with him is it’s crazy we’re still waiting for his first Oscar nomination. I mean, it’s just when you bring up Training Day, I mean that to me is also like a culmination of like all the various Denzel’s we had gotten and all the awardable roles he had given him. Like

 

Guy Branum But also, like, black nominations in lead categories is always ridiculous. Like, I mean, I’m sure you know the year when we got our first two-time black nominee for Best Actress, right? Oh, like is that Viola, like two years ago? Truly, there are two black women who have two nominations for Best Actresses, and it’s Viola and Cynthia Erivo and nobody else. And then she went into supporting and finally got the Oscar. And the thing is, is like, it really is, we’ve given. Two Academy Awards to Black Men for Best Actor, and they are Denzel Washington and Sidney Poitier, and it is essentially- And Will Smith. Like, oh God, I forgot. I was going to say- I was going to say…

 

Louis Virtel Another culmination. We deleted that. No, but the thing is… We deleted that.

 

Guy Branum No, but the thing is, stuff like that is good, because it means you don’t have to be the greatest actor of your generation.

 

Justin Sylvester To do it. No, you just have to wait the perfect time. Will Smith, again, is kind of like Michael B. Jordan. Mine is a slap. But they started off on these hit shows and they keep on moving and moving and doing these critically acclaimed box office numbers that they wait for you to get to a place like, the fact that Will Smith did not win an Oscar for Pursuit of Happiness, he should have won the Oscar for that. That was one of the most amazing performances. I don’t know about that.

 

Guy Branum Also, I forgot about Forrest Whitaker.

 

Justin Sylvester Beautiful things happen. We do live in a good world, guys. But Michael B. Jordan, it’s coming from Michael B Jordan. It’s unfortunate that it wasn’t this movie, but it’s gonna come from Michael.

 

Louis Virtel Right, he’s on the track where it will happen. I mean, I don’t want to say it will happen, it feels like it’ll happen. I don’t even want it to happen for him right now.

 

Guy Branum I’m sorry. I don’t want him to have it. It’s going to be a mass moonstruck. It’s gonna be one of those situations where somebody doesn’t win for the thing that they should have won for. And then you have to give it to them, you know, that Sandra Bullock won the Oscar for the wrong movie first and then gravity came out.

 

Justin Sylvester That was the punishment.

 

Louis Virtel Now you’re in a gravity? Get out. We have a cape lanchard now.

 

Justin Sylvester We’ll never see you again. By the way, remember the movie Moonlight? Yes. Where’s that guy? Yes.

 

Louis Virtel You’re asking like Moonlight was the guy himself. Where’s Moonlight? Where is he? Where is Moonlight. Where is He? Meanwhile, Mahershala has two. Yes.

 

Justin Sylvester Where’s Mahershala?

 

Louis Virtel I interviewed him on the red carpet for the year he won the second one for Green Book. I was like, we’re just going to retire after this? I was just like, what can you do? You have two Oscars now. How can this be exciting?

 

Justin Sylvester He surely did I think he was supposed to be in blade and that kind of blew up. Mm-hmm because not in that movie swan song

 

Louis Virtel I feel like he works. He works, yeah. Gorgeous. But where’s Moonlight? Yeah. Where is Moonlight. Yeah. Okay. That’s the essay question for viewers at home. I feel the surest thing going into the Oscars season is that best director will be Paul Thomas Anderson. That is the most crowning. By the way, he never feels like an overdog to me because, by the way this is somebody who spent his time making a three hour movie based on the songs of Amy Mann once upon a time. And also, by they way. Best Picture. Is it your favorite movie of the year? Yeah. By far.

 

Justin Sylvester My favorite movie.

 

Louis Virtel I was very entertained. I don’t know if I would call it my favorite movie of the year. Like I loved Hamnet so much.

 

Guy Branum And I really think one of the best things he has going for him is that Chloe Zhao already won a best director. And so like, there’s no reason to award him as picture or director because like she feels taken care of even though I liked that movie so much more than One Battle After Another. But I also think One Battle After Another is political. Like the awards were not particularly political. People weren’t talking about stuff, but I think giving the awards to one battle after another is really talking about resistance against fascism.

 

Louis Virtel You know what I like about Paul Thomas Anderson? By the way, his movies routinely have nothing in common. It’s hard to actually talk comprehensively about what they all quote unquote do. But every character- His wife’s Dionne Warwick impression. That’s what you like about him. Oh yeah, her star spangled banner. Please. No, every character in his movies could be their own movie. Yes. If you look at Phantom Threat, all three of those people could have been their own movie. Everybody in Boogie Nights could have been their movie. And I feel that way about this movie, which is one of the few movies of his where- Lots of different people are getting awards attention, you know.

 

Justin Sylvester Yeah. Well, it’s crazy. You know, Regina Hall is one of my favorite actresses of all time. Yes. And the fact that this man walked from his house to her house and met her in the gardens, you hear the story? Yes. And offered her the role and gave her a chance. We’re talking about Brenda from Scary Movie. Yeah. Is now like in talks to be an Oscar nominated actress. Like that is where the genius of P.T. Anderson comes in where he sees somebody and says, I know exactly what to do with you. He sees Tiana Taylor and says… You know what? You’re going to be in five minutes, ten minutes of the movie, but your character is going to string along the whole way. You can feel her in there. He’s just really good at putting people together. And like you said, Boogie Nights, you couldn’t fuck with the casting of that movie.

 

Guy Branum No. Okay, Paul Thomas Anderson, the breadth of what he’s done. When my mom watched Licorice Pizza and was like, I liked that movie, what is it about? And I explained to her that it was also directed by the man who made Phantom Thread and Boogie Nights in Magnolia. Her mind was blown and well it should be. This is a guy who has done amazing things for us. Regina Hall is truly in a Rose Byrne situation of we realize she can do anything. A couple of years ago, she had Support the Girls, which was this amazing performance that people thought was going to get. Awards attention, but I’m just dying for somebody to give Regina Hall that moment where she can do everything that she can do

 

Justin Sylvester And I think that moment is going to come. I just, I don’t know, I hate this, but I want Regina to get nominated. I don’t want her to win. I just don’t think it’s her time. I think there’s some youth in there and there’s more she needs to squeeze out. I don’t want it to hinder her.

 

Louis Virtel No, also by the way, this is not a selfish request on your part. What you want is there to be tension in a fun way for these people.

 

Justin Sylvester I just want Regina, because I think, I don’t know what happens, I don’t what the fuck happens. Like, and I’m gonna take Sydney Sweeney for instance. She did Anyone But You. It was clear to me that she was the second coming of Cameron Diaz with Beard of Titties. And I was like, yes, you have that lane, you could do it, and then there’s this weird thing in an actor… Where they want to win an award, and then they go on this three-picture ride that… Not everybody has to play Mary Queen of Scots. Not everybody! Everybody has to be Mary Queen Of Scots! We need some Barbies out here, you know what I mean? Let’s stick with the Cameron Diaz of all. Let’s make the money. Let’s Matthew McConaughey it. Let’s Make The Money, Glenn Powell, and when you get to 45, be like, you know what? That’s right. Dallas Buyers Club. Let’s lose a hundred pounds change the way we look and play something different, but Matthew McConaughey understood the assignment. He grabbed the cash, he gave us our favorites, and then he said, I’m bouncing, because after he did Dallas Buyers Club, no one knew where to put Matthew McConnaughey after that. But there comes the point when the parts dry up.

 

Guy Branum There comes the point when the parts dry up, there comes the point when like, we don’t give Alfred Woodard an opportunity now, like, you know, there are so many people who are in the hunt, you don’t Glenn close it to go do television for 10 years, because Merrill got the one good role every year.

 

Louis Virtel I just want to say it was wonderful television and Roseburg was also great on it.

 

Guy Branum Damages.

 

Justin Sylvester Damages was a gift from God to Glenn Close. And she is lucky Nicole Kidman wasn’t doing TV back then because that bitch would have played both roles and gotten two Emmy nominations, okay? But Glenn Close gave us all those moments because she was still chasing it and because she could. Had Glenn Close won that Oscar that year, we would have never had Damages.

 

Louis Virtel I agree that there is still a fun tension about Glenn Close, even the roles, but by the way, she’s had a phenomenal last decade, you know, three Oscar nominations, lots of interesting smaller roles in between. I loved her in the new Knives Out movie, and I think a part of that is about not winning. Yeah. You know?

 

Justin Sylvester I hate it, and I hate for Michael B. Jordan, fuck I hate. Also Denzel gave us Man on Fire part one, two, three, four, five, six, and seven. All of his movies felt like Man on fire. They all made a fuck ton of money at the box office, but they were great hits. Had we gotten that, if Denzel just would have went on track to be some Oscar-winning actor, or like only taking roles that are going to get Oscars, somebody was like, no, motherfucker, you’re going to go make this money. Oh, you mean Denzel Washington who won an Academy Award.

 

Guy Branum In 1989 no no no I’m saying Denzel Washington who didn’t stay on the track oh yeah but I think but I mean it can remove you from that track I think right if you ran at the right point you’re able to be like okay that’s done like Julia Roberts knows she’s not winning another Academy Award like when she won it she said I’m probably never going to be up here again I’m taking my time watch your fucking mouth

 

Justin Sylvester Because you know she’s looking for that Academy Award. Oh, really? Oh!

 

Louis Virtel Well, I hope, I think it could happen for her, namely if she goes the August Osage County route of, I actually can be the meanest motherfucker in this room. And I want her to like, you know, run a company, like a baby girl time movie or something.

 

Justin Sylvester No, here’s the problem. Julia Roberts will never play a mother. Oh, you think so? She will never. Didn’t she do that in that two tickets to Paradise? She’ll never play like a mother like Meryl, dying of cancer, smoking a cigarette, making her kids. Julia Roberts is going to have to go there to win that next Oscar.

 

Speaker 3 Mmm.

 

Justin Sylvester And she is not willing to do that just yet. She still wants to be the hot school master who wears cute suits and who has moments with I.O. Debris and sexual tension with Andrew Garfield. She’s not playing the 65-year-old who put her kids through fucking hell and back and is trying to make amends. My God, can she land a punchline.

 

Louis Virtel It always bothers me in a way when somebody who is not a writer at all seems to be off-the-cuff hilarious at all times I call this Betty Davis syndrome. Yes. Why are you so funny? Yes, and the answer is you’re a little bit mean

 

Justin Sylvester Just a tiny bit.

 

Louis Virtel But good, stay fearsome, please.

 

Guy Branum I recently watched the Donahue with the cast of Steel Magnolias and he is so condescending to her the entire time of like, can you believe you’re with these ladies? But honestly, I think one of the reasons she’s so good at this stuff is like she got to watch Shirley MacLaine and Sally Field in their prime do the job and she Alright

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, she was the only one in that cast who got the nomination. Oh my God, what an ego hide that must have been. Like Olympia just won the other day and I got one over her.

 

Justin Sylvester And Sally Phil gave you everything in that movie. Oh, always. She put her coochie right on the table. Name one time she was bad.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, never. She’s almost absence of malice, but that’s the script. Yes. Okay. Um, anyway, did we cover everything? No, Tiana Taylor. Oh, that’s that’s coming up. My Tiana Taylor take will be saved for the keep it segment. Okay, we’ll be right back with Eva Victor but before that some quick housekeeping.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel This week’s guest is a fresh face in the awards conversation, nabbing their first Golden Globe nomination for their lead role in Sorry Baby, a heartfelt and sometimes heart-wrenching dramedy, which they also wrote and directed. I want to say you were the first person to direct yourself to a nomination in this category. Streisand is all musical comedy. We’ll talk.

 

Eva Victor Oh my god, wait, by the way, who wrote this? It’s so good.

 

Louis Virtel Get ready. We’re chatting just days before the Golden Globes and we can feel the excitement swirling in the air So without further ado, please welcome to keep it Eva Victor

 

Eva Victor Oh my god, I loved it. You were so good at that. And by the way, that was being read and it was a perfect read. It sounded like you thought of it.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, thank you. I dream of being on like eyewitness news at 6 p.m. Just reading the weather. Is that true? You dream of that? Well, just teleprompter? You have something so much better. Thank you. How nice of you. Of course. Okay. Well, the Globes are a couple days away.

 

Eva Victor The excitement is swirling in the air, I agree.

 

Louis Virtel I see the swirls happening right here.

 

Eva Victor Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, can you imagine? I’m just like Cinderella. I get to go there, I get be around like the most insanely talented women in the world and then go home and go to sleep like with my cats. It’s like the best, it’s psychotically awesome and weird.

 

Louis Virtel I’m cool. Who are you most anticipating seeing this? Because by the way, everybody from this movie awards year is there, you know, like whoever you want to meet will be there.

 

Eva Victor That’s true. Apparently everyone drinks a lot. Yes. So we’ll see, like, about that. You know, there’s people I’ve met, I’ve met Tessa Thompson, who couldn’t be lovelier, but I’ve seen Heda since I got to talk to her. So I’m like, I have a lot to say to her about her performance in Heda and all the performances in Hedda.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, Nina Haas in that movie is so fabulous.

 

Eva Victor Beyond. Image and poods, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel No kidding.

 

Eva Victor Giving it up for Imogen Poots this year, I have to say. I am a discovery of my year with Imogen Pooz, because I saw Chronology of Water 2. Have you seen Chronology? Oh, yes, of course, yeah. And she is an amazing actor. Who else? Who else. You know, Julia Roberts. Who’s in your category? In my category. But you know what? I’m really nice to the people in my category because I’m grateful to be there.

 

Louis Virtel I’m not weird about it. I guess one of my favorite pleasures of this awards season has been watching you talk to other people. I saw you have an awesome conversation with Celine Song. Yes. What’s it been like connecting with other filmmakers who I’m sure are watching Sorry Baby and thinking, how is this your first movie?

 

Eva Victor That’s nice. You know, it’s wonderful and it’s very interesting because I do think meeting filmmakers is very similar to watching their films. Like it’s kind of like, oh yeah, that tracks. Like meeting Selina, I’m like, oh yeah that is the person. Like very, like brilliant, meticulous, thoughtful, like kind of dark humor. Like it just, it, it it’s, it very. It’s cool to meet people who are part of the journey of you making a film. Like, I hope to meet Kelly Reichardt, I think would be my number one of the year, because her film, Certain Women, was so influential to my film. But no, it’s crazy meeting people who made you want to make films. I mean, that’s the amazing thing about, in my opinion so far, this awards time, because… I’m in rooms with people and getting to say, thank you, thank you. Thank you to people that have led me to be in the room. So that’s the cool part.

 

Louis Virtel For me. Something that I found super interesting was, you said that during the pandemic, you started becoming an avid movie watcher, like started like, kind of collecting dramatic experiences and that’s what ended up precipitating writing this movie. You doing your research is fucked. A little bit, a little bit. Thank you. I was wondering what movies you watched and what ones really stayed with you from that time. Oh, please.

 

Eva Victor I have a really good list sent to me by a filmmaker. Okay, let’s see. 45 years. Oh, that.

 

Louis Virtel Is literally among my favorite movies of the past decade. Charlotte Rampling in that movie is so sick, and so is Tom Courtney.

 

Eva Victor By the way, the lesson of someone retelling their trauma somehow and we don’t see what they see but we feel what they feel, her watching in the attic, watching the… She’s watching a slideshow. She finds a whole slide. A slideshow and she sees something totally devastating that we find and I’m not going to reveal it because you have to legitimately see the film. It’s actually one of the best films in the world. 45 Years is one of best films of the world, you have watch it. And you see her see something in a slide that tells her something that is insanely pivotal to her. It’s about a marriage and a marriage in trust. And also people that age, you see them having sex and you see like dancing and I think that’s really, really like awesome and hot and interesting. Because we don’t see people that age having sex in films, really ever.

 

Louis Virtel There was a line in a review about that movie by Stephanie Zaharek that has stayed with me, which is it’s a movie about how we are all fundamentally alone. And even though they’re in this marriage of 45 years, like dealing with it, I’m really pleased to hear you bring that up because I can feel that in this movie a little bit.

 

Eva Victor Thank you. I mean, it’s a very elegant, elegant, elegant film. I think that it seems to me based on, I’ve never been married, but based on film, it seems like marriage is one of the loneliest things you can do. Ding. Yes. Ding, ding, ding. Okay, let’s keep going. Breaking the waves.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, great. Emily Watson.

 

Eva Victor Burning was I love burning

 

Louis Virtel The lead guy in that movie, he didn’t win anything and he was fabulous.

 

Eva Victor Well, you know what? A win is in the heart. Okay. I disagree. And you can post that right after I lose the Golden Globes. The Handmaiden? Of course, yes. Have you seen No Other Choice?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I have not seen no other we were just discussing in the room

 

Eva Victor Okay, why are we here? Let’s all go to the theater. I love no other choice.

 

Louis Virtel This is like, kind of crazy to just list stuff. Are you pretty up on this year’s movies then? Have you seen-

 

Eva Victor Well, you know I am because I there are a few that I haven’t seen yet that I’m like in the red four I need to see die my love

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I just saw that, yes.

 

Eva Victor Yeah, I need to see that before basically Sunday. Yeah. Okay, got it. There are a few others, but I can’t remember them right now because I’m too present with you. No, but also you’re-

 

Louis Virtel No, but also yours. I love that. You’re such an avid movie watcher has clearly informed your movie Which I have to I was gonna say the number one thing that surprises me about this being your first movie And I’m sure you get this exact verbiage thrown at you all the time is the control of tongue Like like like it takes you to such a unique and specific place It’s like both cozy and chilly and I’m wondering if you envision that ahead of time like knowing how this would feel in This academic environment where this character goes to this horrifying ordeal before starting to kind of reorganize their life and figure out what joy they can find with their friends, etc.

 

Eva Victor You know what, thank you. The tonal shifting is definitely in the script, and it was a script that like either you got it or you didn’t when you read it, and some people vibed with the tonal shifts. But I do feel like the credit to the ultimate success of tonal-shifting goes to my editing team, which is Alex O’Flynn and Randy Atkins. And it was us in this like tiny, tiny room that was like a third the size of this for months and months. And that was just kind of. Constant calibration, like there was no sort of like switch that flipped and the tone worked, you know, it was like every day chipping off things that felt like they were obstacles to having someone stay emotionally with the film. Like I didn’t really want anything to be jarring. And what I think the fear was was that, okay, so we have things that are more comedic, we have thing that are dramatic, what we actually don’t want to happen is it lands somewhere in the middle that’s kind of middling and becomes diluted. And actually, it’s about finding ways to move. Confidently or smoothly so that people are like, oh, I trust you to take me to a different tonal space. But it was constant calibration, it was like teeny, it’s frames, you know, it is frames and it is takes and it’s like it’s experimenting. So it was, and you know we edited in the same building as the Lion King Mufasa was doing like their VFX.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, and I think of those two as a pair, you’re part of a diptych.

 

Eva Victor And it was crazy, because they gave us the space, which was very generous, and we had to sit behind a wall so that we never saw any Lion King VFX. So we were in this little cubby, which is amazing. But what they did have, they had a screening room that they would use for things all day, but there would be windows where it was free. So we actually got to watch the film on a big screen to do our little experiments of, well, that doesn’t work, that works, you know, like this scene moves here, oh, breaks this, you know, like… We got to see things on a big screen throughout the process, which I think was really helpful, and like not to our budget, but was lucky enough because of Barry and Pastel to get to sneak in there and get access to better.

 

Louis Virtel And the Barry in this case is Barry Jenkins. I’m very interested in that relationship. You guys knew each other on Instagram and that was the beginning of this? Well, he DMed me, so that’s kind of-

 

Eva Victor It’s not the way you would think that DM would go, obviously. No, it was awesome. I mean, he’d seen my videos. Well, something interesting is that one of the videos he liked was a video I didn’t make that just had posted, but I stayed quiet about that. But I was like, yeah, yeah. I did that. No, but he DM’d me and was like if you ever have a feature script, send it to Pastel. And honestly, this is actually something I haven’t really talked about, but I did send them something. They said no, but everybody in town said no. But their rejection letter to me It was insanely kind and very respectful and like kind of told me what they thought the film was doing well and they were like, we’re not the partners for it. But that rejection letter kind of stayed with me and I got to talk to Barry and Adela and Mark from Pastel on the phone and Barry was like, the videos you’re making online are directing. It’s just a really different version of it. But you’re make all these choices and I think his belief in me before he saw me actually do this. Was something that when I wrote Sorry Baby, I was like, well, these are the people I’m sending it to, because there’s like this feeling of they see something that I feel like I see, but other people are not really seeing. So then, yeah, we worked on, I wrote the script on my own and then sent it to them. And so I spent two years preparing to direct.

 

Louis Virtel I had to ask, like, I’m not the kind of person who would ever ask a guest to give advice, but in this case, what would you say to somebody who wants to move from the space of making videos online as, you know, 75% of the world is doing right now?

 

Eva Victor To making a movie. I mean, honestly, this is advice that I find to be true over and over again in my life. And I think there are special, chosen people who do get picked and someone’s like, I want you to star in my film or I want you to do this thing. And it’s like oh my God, that is special. But I kind of realized at some point in my career a long time ago that that call was never coming from me. Like, I’m not someone who’s going to… They’re going to be like, you’re like the next whatever. I was about to say Wonder Woman. I’m like, I really don’t want to play Wonder Woman, but thank you for thinking of that Ava at 10 a.m. But I was just like, that’s not going to happen. I have to be my own source of creativity and energy. And like, I’m the one who has to create the role I want to play and I have to build the world I want to build because also things I’m reading aren’t aligned. Like I’m not finding myself in them. And so it’s kind of my job. To come save myself, like, because no one’s coming to save me. It’s kind of, I have a little bit of a bulldog mentality about like, Ann, you know what my, I really don’t want to quote this, but I’m like, these kids these days have to work. They have to get to work! I don’t mean that about people who aren’t working, I just mean that’s true for me. Like I, and when Kim said that, I was like, I had to get the fucking work. But it’s true. I feel like working is the antidote to the fear. Of the industry, like, and you can’t control anything except for what you do, so.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of experimentation while making the film. I was wondering did you also do that as an actor like while you’re directing yourself? Did you think during the movie? I’ll try something Weird or something. I didn’t even really write here, or was it really hemmed in from the start your acting performance

 

Eva Victor Well, my preparation, I prepared with this amazing woman, Rebecca Deeley, who is a casting director and an amazing person and acting coach. And it was kind of nice because by the time I was preparing the performance, I had written it a long time ago, so I didn’t totally remember all the reasons things were in there from a writer’s perspective. But I kind of had to be like, I trust that person that this was really important. And so I tried to stay as true to the text because I was like, that’s all I really have right now. There was something I wanted to say. You said something that made me think of it. And I was like, I want to say that. But now I forgot.

 

Louis Virtel Experimentation, acting, who knows?

 

Eva Victor Oh, yeah. Yeah. Literally. Look at us. I lose it again. No. Okay. Basically, I feel like when I’m insecure performing, this is private, but I’m going to say it. There were moments when I was like, oh, like I could make this like funny. Like I could be this moment funny. And I would get away with like people on set were laughing or like I, there was kind of this thing I had to, that I learned is like, okay, but do the check. And the check is. Is that true? Like, is that how this person’s feeling? And I feel like there was like one scene in particular, which is when Agnes comes back from, she meets the character Gavin played by Lucas Hedges and she comes back with the lighter fluid and she’s like, I think I was gonna light Decker’s office on fire. And I remember being like, okay, I kind of want to do this like more broad or just, I just want it to be a little bit like. And then I was like, hold on, this is terrifying. Like this person really, really thought they weren’t gonna do that and they were gonna do. And now they’re freaking the fuck out and the idea of then she says like I don’t want him to die is like actually this really sad realization of like it would be so much easier if I wanted him to die but really I just want to feel better and I want peace and I want I want to not feel this way and I think I was like this is actually a really scary scene for this person and Naomi’s character Liddy then I think

 

Louis Virtel And I would say Naomi Ackie is so great in this movie, what a fabulous performance.

 

Eva Victor Whatever I talk about her, I get full body chills. There’s something like seriously like astrologically, what do I mean? I mean she’s made of like the sky.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes.

 

Eva Victor She’s like from God’s mouth. I don’t really think that I know what that means, but she is seriously next level. She’s brilliant. She could have chemistry with the wall. I was lucky enough to be across from her. Like everything she’s in, she’s brilliant, and interpersonally, like the warmest, kindest, can do anything. And I do not believe this film would work if she wasn’t in it, because her trust of my abilities as a director, day one. Was so important to me and essential for me to feel safe trying things. So I owe her everything. But then that scene for her became this sort of more, she was like, well, can we light his pens on fire? Like, she got to be the funny kind of counterbalance to my character’s sadness. And that was really fun because I was like oh right, her being sad leads to this person kind of rising up energy-wise. I think the other scene that I would say like something happened was like there’s a scene in the courthouse and it was written on the page to be very slapstick and like. Comedic, and once I got to the actual courthouse and felt all these people around me that I didn’t know, and I was like, Agnes is like, this is a really fucking bad day. Like this is, this person is freaking out inside me. And that became sort of, the scene became much scarier and much more like emotional for me. Like I was trying to hold down all this stuff and the edit eventually took out a lot of like the more comedic stuff and sort of became something that was much more like a one arrow sort of. We don’t let go of the tension for the whole scene. Whereas before it was like, we took breaks in the scene and it went different places. But yeah, I mean, I don’t even remember the question, but we’re having the best time. Oh, please.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please. Yes. This I guess would be considered a bit of a spoiler people haven’t seen the movie But something I’m so curious about having watched this was how far along in the screenwriting process Did you know what the ending was going to be? Because first of all the ending of the movie gives the title of the move why it’s called sorry, baby But there are only a few movies of the past 15 years where I’m like, oh my god I did exactly right and I could not have predicted it which is my favorite thing and then you in retrospect it feels inevitable

 

Eva Victor Oh good

 

Louis Virtel You know? And I love that feeling, you know really.

 

Eva Victor Not everyone feels this way but thank you for saying it. Yeah, well, you know, it’s so crazy to try to remember the writing process. And I tried to open the computer. I had this like, you get a computer over like 10 years or whatever. That was a different computer than I have now. And it has like a crazy streak on it that I can’t look at like the drafts or else they’re all rainbow, like whatever. But so I don’t know like the different drafts and what happened when. But I know that’s always how the film was meant to end, because. The film begins with this announcement of a pregnancy and the film ends with this confrontation with this like new life and with Agnes really not holding the idea of a new baby well. And then at the end being like, oh, I can vow to return the favor of listening to you someday.

 

Louis Virtel She needs this baby. She babysits for a couple of minutes. Yeah, literally, by the way.

 

Eva Victor Yeah, literally. And by the way, that’s a huge deal for her. Like, we cannot underestimate babysitting for two minutes for this bitch. It’s next fucking level. Like, she was not, she’s not born to do that. But yeah, I think there’s this sort of beginning and ending, ultimate, hopefully a balance of like, new life, new life arrives and work and time has passed. There are a few scenes in the film that were sort of the like, milestone scenes. The kind of speeches or whatever and I’m in the bathtub was one of them I think that’s the first thing I wrote of the film When Agnes tells Liddy what happened and then the baby one was always coming, you know I think I wrote it at the end of writing the film But I was really really ready to write it because I was like there’s a lot I have to say.

 

Louis Virtel It is a very cathartic moment in the movie, yes.

 

Eva Victor You know, interestingly, we like, we had two versions of the ending of the film, which were all the same words, but one version where Agnes was as she is now in the film and one version, where she like breaks down and it’s like weeping and like looking at this baby and it was like kind of all the pent up energy is like released and she’s like well, but not well too at the same. It was just a really different version and it was really hard to figure out. Because both kind of worked, but for really different reasons. And then finally, my editor’s wife, Shannon, is a therapist. And she came in and read both endings and what they both meant. And was like, if you choose this ending, that’s what it means. And if you chose this ending this is what this means this character is experiencing. And I was like OK, then I know what to do. But it took a real therapist’s view to settle that. But there is like an alternate ending of the film somewhere that’s really devastating. But you know what? I actually think sometimes when someone’s weeping, people say this, I don’t know if it’s true, but people say that something’s gonna say it, which is like, when someone is weeping then you don’t have to weep, but if they’re not and they’re holding it back, then you can feel something, and then you’re more, there’s more space for you to feel something. I don’t know if that’s true because sometimes when people are weeping in movies, I’m like, oh, that’s so true. Like Jesse Buckley, my fucking God, like I was crying the whole fucking time, so I don’t really know if the rule is true, but I heard people say that people are like universal is whatever.

 

Louis Virtel You ever seen the movie Ordinary People, which ends with a confrontation between Donald Sutherland and Mary Tyler Moore? And in the original version, it’s like a screaming, emotional confrontation. And the version they went with was her just being silently devastated. And that, to me, is why it’s the most successful family drama ever. It’s like, a bit truer.

 

Eva Victor Oh, my God.

 

Louis Virtel My last question is, we had- Last question. Oh my God, I can go all fucking day. I know, you’re so right. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had Emerald Fennell here a couple years ago, and I knew she was hilarious just from watching interviews with her, and it was on that Promising Young Woman press tour, and then I thought to myself, why do I know she is funny from promoting this movie, which is basically horrifying to talk about? It’s an extremely violent movie. You’ve now talked about this movie for over a year. What do you feel like you’ve- had to go through in order just to talk about the movie? And do you feel like you’re confronted often with lots of invasive questions because of the nature of the film?

 

Eva Victor Yes, I mean, I’m completely dead inside. It’s like, no, it’s not okay. That said, grateful as fuck and happy to be here. Beyond that, yes, there have been some psychotic questions.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, have them. Yeah.

 

Eva Victor Yes. And I actually then, because I was noticing psychotic questions, begged them to give me media training so that I could practice answering questions. By the way, I’m not using my media training here. Don’t worry. Oh, okay. I’m no hiding all the truth here. Just kidding. That’s not what media training is. It’s actually an insanely, I don’t think people know what media trading is. Right. Let me just talk about this really fast. Please. Like, my experience of media training was I sit with this amazing man. And he helps me figure out how I want to say things so that I say what I wanna say and I give the clearest version of the answer possible and I don’t freak the fuck out that I said something that I felt was too revealing or not true because I was panicking. So it’s like this beautiful, beautiful, actual legit art. And that said, yeah, some questions have really, really fucked me up. But I am really, really, really good at not answering them.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I’m glad to hear it. Eva, it has been awesome talking to you.

 

Eva Victor So nice talking to YOU.

 

Louis Virtel Sorry Baby is a fabulous movie, go watch it now. And we’re back with the saltiest part of the episode, it’s keep it. We have to start over here. What’s your keep it?

 

Justin Sylvester You know where you go first. I’m gonna let you go for it. Really because I want to see how you do this

 

Guy Branum Let’s have Guy go. Non-hair hair on the red carpet, keep it. There are certain ladies showing up to the red carpet doing absolutely nothing with their hair, trying to make it a non-moment. Now look, if you have enough of a dress, you can pull that hair up into a little French twist and let it not steal the focus. But let’s say a certain member of the Hunting Wives cast who showed up with little tendrils that were hiding her earrings and then a strange ponytail that you couldn’t see from the front and did nothing with a… Like bland white dress? No, give me a moment. Like, understand minimalism. Minimalism isn’t boring. Minimallism is deliberate. So, hey, actresses, I understand. And also, people, there are certain people who just clearly don’t want to spend a lot of time in hair and makeup. And Amy Madigan and Natasha Lyonne, like, you know, let’s put our effort in the right direction. Let’s try to make minimalism work for you instead of it feeling bland and lifeless.

 

Justin Sylvester Oh, Gwenda Paltrow was the best at that. Yeah. She used to have that. I just came out of the beach, got fucked, and came to Golden Globes here.

 

Guy Branum Yes. It can feel effortless, but when it feels like you just sort of are like, I don’t know what they did with my hair. It’s boring. And also, if you are leaving just like acres and acres of unoccupied space in between your earlobes and to the top of your strapless dress, like please do something. Give me a necklace. Give me hair that is coming down. Do something.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t want this Gwyneth Paltrow press cycle to be over. I’m having too much fun. Excuse me. Even when Amy Poehler offended me by asking her what was cold mountain like, was the mountain cold? And then it turned out she wasn’t in cold mountain. That was of course Nicole Kidman. The way Gwyneth handled that with such dismissive like, oh, I love being mistaken for Nicole Kidman. Everything that comes out of her mouth is so weirdly like, there’s no other word for it. Delightful.

 

Guy Branum She loves acting and does it when she wants. The minute she turned 50, we didn’t expect her to be relatable anymore. The minute, she turned fifty, we’re like, she’s a very powerful witch and we respect her. Let her take down that skiing man. I am living for this era of her life and, you know, she owns the goop. She is not scared of the gop. I eat goop every day? By the way, I bought a yoni egg. I don’t even have a yonis.

 

Justin Sylvester You’re yoni-less? I’m yoni less but I bought a yoni egg because I love her so much

 

Louis Virtel She did an interview at SAG with a Q&A audience. Fabulous. I really recommend it. I was watching it over the holidays. I had nothing to do December 23rd. I’ve had a magical little Christmas.

 

Justin Sylvester Because by the way, she’s Jonah Ark. Y’all burned her at the stake and she survived. And by the, when a white lady survives a witch murder, she comes back stronger and more powerful. And that’s what she fucking did. She was like- This is not what happened to Jonah Vark, by the. But yes. In my story, she survived!

 

Louis Virtel Okay, there actually have been a thousand adaptations of Joan of Arc’s life, so maybe she survived, sort of.

 

Justin Sylvester In the title of Harry Joan of Arc.

 

Guy Branum She’s working at Seattle grace. She has a chainsaw and she is coming after her ex-husband’s furniture He’s working got Seattle grace with all those

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Um, actually, my keep it has something to do with somebody who worked at Seattle Grace. My keep it is to mispronouncing actresses’ names at award shows. Okay. Um, here’s the thing. You think there’s like no danger in not getting someone’s name right? There is. I will remember this for the rest of my life. You should be afraid of a bordering on middle-aged gay man who remembers your mistakes. Jennifer Garner, could you please go to one rehearsal so you can say Tiana Taylor correctly? I’m sorry, like it ruins the moment in a way when somebody who’s winning a huge award hears their name mispronounced. A really famous version of this was Bruce- Adele Dazeem. Oh yes, well, okay. Well, if you’re going to be captivating, that’s different. But mostly it’s like people like in the 80s, Bruce Willis mispronouncing Jack Hay’s name when she won for 227. Jack Hay Harry is what we call her now. But at the time he just said Jackie, does that sound right? Single name sensation Jackie. And by the way, it could be anybody. I remember Dana Delaney one year said Jelko Yvonnek’s name wrong. That’s a hard one. Yeah. But I’m just saying Diane Lane Talked with somebody beforehand and said, oh, it’s Wagner-Morra. And then she got it right. And by the way, when you get somebody’s hard name right, that makes an awards telecast really exciting. Ooh, who’s that? You know? So anyway, and the number one worst of all time, the VMAs, I believe it was 2000, Aaliyah won for Try Again. Aliyah.

 

Guy Branum Ricky Martin said, Aliyah. But it’s Ricky Martin. He’s a non-native speaker of English and the hottest gay man. Okay. But talk about a queen of the damned, because she was gone the next…

 

Justin Sylvester And by the way, by the way, you know, he, that thing still lives rent free in his head. I hope so. You know, he is going over and over and over it. But also he was

 

Guy Branum as a gay man who couldn’t say Aaliyah, excuse me? So when I hosted my little talk show at the game show, I had one episode and the guests were a partner in a churla, a crush on a car, and John Daly, and I was so scared of messing it up, and then I ended up messing up John Daley’s. That’s like something Aesopian.

 

Speaker 3 Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Anyway, the Seattle Grace person I was thinking of, at the Emmys one year, Katherine Heigl was introduced as Katherine Heijel, but then she came out and said, it’s Heigel, actually. Of course she did. That was awesome.

 

Guy Branum Of course she did. You want to know who I would love to have back? Oh, Catherine Highcock.

 

Louis Virtel I know. She was good. Excuse me. We gave her, I think, the hardest, most ridiculous, like Amelia Perez type storyline on that show of all time, and she landed it.

 

Justin Sylvester Also, she served her sentence. What did you say at the beginning of this? What? You don’t want to crush on her eyes?

 

Speaker 3 Fair! Fair!

 

Justin Sylvester Fair, fair. That’s right. But I’ll do a poise commercial. I’m not, I have no shame, bitch. I will hock a fucking poise pad.

 

Guy Branum Uh, Jamie Lee Curtis did the pooping yogurt and she won an Academy Award. Oh, bring me that Activia.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I was in for it. Oh, excuse me. This is classic. Like, Cher is doing, like, psychic friendship, and she’s like, you know what? Actually, I’m going to go win an Oscar. Yeah. You know.

 

Justin Sylvester Oh my God, I might keep it with something I actually want to keep.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, go ahead. We can redefine the rules for you.

 

Justin Sylvester Okay, great. I just want to keep showing ass crack on the fucking red carpet. Oh, please like bring back ass crack You know JLo had it Hilary Swang did it one time on the red carpet I just love that moment of having that little peekaboo in the back Like give me old VMAs moments at the Grammys like Tiana Taylor did it at the Golden Globes, and I just it was delightful

 

Louis Virtel Do you know what that reminds me of is a classic Rose McGowan on the red carpet when she was with Marilyn Manson?

 

Guy Branum First of all, so excited for the Grammys. I love that in the middle of respectable award show season, we were like, let’s do a fun one.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, here comes circus.

 

Guy Branum Yes, but also 17, 18 seasons of RuPaul’s Drag Race. And like, but is it drag is now applicable on the Golden Globes red carpet. Like what Tiana was wearing was a great look that might save you after a poor performance in the Rusical.

 

Justin Sylvester She will not have to lip-sync for her life with that outfit on. And by the way, if the girls take it too serious, Tate McCray, shout out, you are our new pop queen after that VMAs performance. So at the Grammys, if young girls are coming in gowns… And Sabrina Carpenter’s are coming in like, you know, these Valentino, fuck that. If you don’t find it at a drag shop on Melrose, please don’t wear it. This is the motherfucking VMAs. Diana Ross, touch Lil’ Kim’s titty live on TV. Give me a titty grab, okay? Let it be accessible. That’s what I’m looking for. Someone’s scratching Ricky Martin’s nuts at the Grammys.

 

Louis Virtel Also, by the way, you could write a whole book about the 99 VMAs. I mean, every single thing about that award show, like the drag tribute to Madonna. Oh, wait, that reminds me of somebody else who mispronounced somebody’s name. Paul McCartney did Video of the Year that year, and he reopens the envelope and goes, some fellow named Lawrence Hill. A joke? You think Lauren Hill was going to be receptive to that? And now where is she? You know what? Fuck it. Lauren Hill should have stabbed his ass.

 

Justin Sylvester I think even I should have came out and be like, what’s good, Miley?

 

Louis Virtel I’ve never thought about this before. Lauryn Hill should have stabbed Paul McCartney. I’ve ever thought about it before.

 

Justin Sylvester And by the way, she would have got away with it. Yes, please. She looked amazing, too. Do you remember when Courtney Love was, like, famously trying to get into Madonna’s interview with Gordon Roter?

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes, the year she won for Take About.

 

Justin Sylvester Yes, and she like threw her compact out and it was probably her birth control pills, but nobody wanted to say it at the time Yes, it was the greatest moment

 

Guy Branum I miss that level of hunger. She hungered her way all the way to like, she was at the Academy Awards. Was she nominated? No.

 

Louis Virtel He’s nominated for the gold globe.

 

Guy Branum Okay, but still like she Sally Kirkland style hungered her way into almost respectability

 

Justin Sylvester And I loved it. Babe, if the cocaine had been as weak as it is now… Because what Courtney Love was getting back in the day, what Courtney love was getting from Jack Nicholson’s guy was so strong that she thought she could crash Madonna’s interview. If she had the coke that they’re serving these days, because I tested it a few times, I’m not an habitual user, I just like to taste it and see what it’s like. Of course. He has a lab. She would have been a fucking movie star, because what she did in that movie with Stuart Townsend… And Charlize Theron, when they kidnapped those motherfuckers, she was on the road to being a great. She was fucking, she had that bob that just was bobbing the whole time.

 

Louis Virtel And then we lost her to like London or something. She lives over there and gives like one good interview every two years.

 

Guy Branum It’s so interesting when people have multiple skills. You know, it is so interesting. Look, I’m still just reacting from the Barbara book. But like, Barbara always had the option when they like, Stonewall turned the Oscars. Why not just go make a record and have it sell, you know, 10 million copies? Why deal with this bullshit anymore? Yeah. Yeah.

 

Justin Sylvester You know, it’s just crazy. Tiana Taylor is that person. I also think, and I’m sorry, I know she gets a lot of flak, but if you look at Jennifer Lopez and what she’s done in her life, coming from a fly girl to now this, like, that’s pretty exceptional.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no, please. Also, she looks like she’s lit with champagne from within. I mean, it’s just like she looks like an actual goddess. That said, I wish I wish her teleprompter copy this year was a little more exciting. She didn’t give us anything at the mic. Yeah, by the way, she didn’t look over it. She did not go to rehearsal. She did. I got to one rehearsal. Right. You’re already dressed up. Just go. It’s Beverly Hilton. Yeah, right. They have.

 

Guy Branum Yeah, right. They have snacks. It was a dress that would have looked terrible on anyone else and was the best dress of the night on her. But let me tell you this. Did you see her after-party dress?

 

Justin Sylvester No, that should have been the dress. Oh, really? Oh, I hate when that happens. My god I don’t know what happened with the dress was great. The chignon was on point Yes, the after party dress the amount of cleavage Yeah, and what was happening just go look it up when you get home. Also kiss of the spider-woman was good

 

Louis Virtel It was good. The problem is, as I said on this show, Jennifer Lopez is not camp. That’s the problem.

 

Justin Sylvester Campy. That’s right. They should have sold it more campy they needed one other woman in there that was known for camp to turn that bitch up. If someone said RuPaul is making a… RuPaul’s in jail here and is making an appearance…

 

Guy Branum The thing is, to make up for the William Heard of it, they felt the need to be a little respectful about trans and queer issues, and so they didn’t have fun. Failing to realize that trans and queir lives are fun.

 

Justin Sylvester Sylvester, thank you so much for being here. By the way, I was really intimidated. You guys are very smart and very fun. Oh, really fast. Oh, my God. I’ve never seen two white guys go at it like this. This has been like so amazing and so insightful. This is smart. Oh, I’m nice of you. Thank you. Justin, anything you want to plug for us? Oh, My God. My podcast, Yestergaze, comes out every Tuesday with Blakely Thornton. It is a trip. Every episode scares me because my podcast host. Has a tongue of a devil, and you never know what’s gonna come out, but it’s a fun, exciting ride where we go back in time and look at things that have shaped today that happened yesterday. Mmm. Yeah. Fabulous.

 

Louis Virtel That’s a good time. I have an eye for nostalgia. Maybe I’ll drop by sometime. Please. Guy, thank you for watching your first award show for us. I’m sorry this had to be brand new information to you, but you really took to it like a fish in water.

 

Guy Branum Like a fish in water. You’re the person I most want to talk to this about now that Joan Rivers is dead.

 

Louis Virtel Guy, anything you’d like to pimp at us?

 

Guy Branum Yes, follow me across all social media at Guy Branum, except for TikTok where I’m Guy Branum Comedy, where I do a nostalgia-based video series called Only the Old Gays Remember.

 

Louis Virtel It is fabulous is very informative and you can tell he is informed because by the way He was just back on jeopardy recently you are a jeopardy champion Thanks to the second chance tournament and you did a hell of a job in the two-day final So I just want to congratulate you. You’re obviously one of the smartest people I’ve ever met. So continue being that

 

Guy Branum You’re so sweet. I did completely just flail on a daily double that I knew. Oh, no. That’s how I… That’s showbiz. But I got to say Howard’s end. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel You’re sure dead. God was smiling.

 

Justin Sylvester Who is a liar?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh my god. Please tell me that was it. We’ll try again, quote Aliyah, next week on Keep It. Thank you to the marvelous Eva Victor for joining us. We’ll be back next week with more Keep It! Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jerik Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.