• Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day in the United States, and many of us will celebrate with full tables. But for millions of Americans, food insecurity is a daily problem, year-round. According to government data from 2023, roughly 14% of American households didn’t know where their next meal was coming from, or whether they could afford to feed everyone in their home. Politician, voting rights activist, and ‘Assembly Required’ host Stacey Abrams has spent years talking about how food insecurity affects communities of all kinds. She joins us to talk about what she’s learned.
• Later in the show, YouTube star Brian Tyler Cohen shares tips on how to talk politics with your family during the holidays.
• And in headlines: President Biden announced a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon, President-elect Donald Trump gets mixed reactions to his plan to immediately enact sweeping tariffs on the top three U.S. trading partners, and the Biden Administration says it wants Medicare and Medicaid to cover the cost of weight-loss drugs like Wegovy and Zepbound.
  

• Check out Brian Tyler Cohen’s YouTube – www.youtube.com/@briantylercohen
• Check out Assembly Required – crooked.com/podcast-series/assemblyrequired/
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• What A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcast

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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Wednesday, November 27th. I’m Jane Coaston and this is What a Day, the show that is not feeling very bad for former New York City mayor and Trump lackey Rudy Giuliani, who revealed to a judge on Tuesday that he is totally broke and definitely couldn’t hand over more of his assets to the two election workers he defamed. As he told U.S. District Judge Lewis Liman. I don’t have a car. I don’t have a credit card. I don’t have cash, sad. [music break] On today’s show, some good news in Lebanon and a conversation about how to have a conversation about politics at Thanksgiving if you want to. Let’s get into it. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day in the United States and many of us will be celebrating with full tables. But for millions of Americans, food insecurity is a daily problem year round. According to the USDA, roughly 14% of American households dealt with food insecurity at some point during 2023. That means that they didn’t know where their next meal was coming from or whether they could afford to feed everyone in their home. That’s about 18 million households, homes that probably look very similar to yours. One person who cares a lot about this issue is Stacey Abrams. You know, Stacey, she’s a politician, voting rights activist and host of Crooked Media’s podcast, Assembly Required. Stacey has spent years talking about how food insecurity impacts communities of all kinds and what we can do about it. She recently chatted with celebrity chef and food activist Tom Colicchio for her show. And we got to discuss what she’s learned about food insecurity, why she’s passionate about the issue and what we can do about it every single day of the year. Stacey, welcome to What a Day. 

Stacey Abrams: Thank you for having me. 

Jane Coaston: So you’ve talked about how food insecurity is an issue that’s near and dear to your heart. Where does that passion come from? 

Stacey Abrams: I grew up in a family that made ends meet, but sometimes it took a lot of struggle, a lot of pulling. Unfortunately, for so many of the kids I grew up with, it was an everyday experience and my parents, one of the things they would have us do when we were growing up, they would take us to volunteer. And their point was, no matter how little we had, there was someone with less. Your job is to serve that person. And so we would go to food banks and soup kitchens and we’re like, you guys do know we’re poor too, right? But for them, that wasn’t the point. It was to serve, to solve the problem, not serve to solve yourselves. And it stuck with me that hunger is one of those fundamental challenges that is both solvable and perennial. 

Jane Coaston: Trump announced Brooke Rollins as his nominee to lead the Department of Agriculture. And you’ve talked on your show before about how the USDA oversees the nation’s biggest anti-hunger program, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, for short. What was your reaction to Rollins’s nomination and what impact do you expect her to have on food insecurity in the U.S.? 

Stacey Abrams: I am deeply concerned about her nomination because she has made her practice of participation in public service around conservative ideology that includes this notion that children aren’t entitled to service. And unfortunately, that ethos is what has limited expansion of the food hunger programs for children in schools. She has espoused, or at least seems to be tangential to this notion of nutrient dense foods as the only source of food benefit. And the reason this matters, getting nutrient dense food is hard. There are food deserts. There are entire systems at play to keep us away from nutrient dense food. And if you make a condition of getting food aid access to something you are denied access to. You are guaranteeing hunger and you are doing so under the guise of nobility, but with the very real intention of causing harm to the most vulnerable among us. 

Jane Coaston: I also think that there’s so much moralizing with food, like no one is looking into your Whole Foods cart about your organic potato chips. And yet we are very willing to tell poor folks how to eat and what to eat and what not to eat in a way that the same people would scream about government overreach if we did the same to wealthier people. 

Stacey Abrams: And the reason it is so absurd is that the very architects of the systems that are denying access are the ones who are also denying solutions. We know that grocery stores base their locations in part on your census data. So if you don’t get included in the census, it can be years, it can be a decade at a time before you can get access to a grocery store. And yet those same communities are often denied full participation in the census. And so you are in these food deserts because the systems that could get you out, you’re dissuaded from participating. I recently wrote a children’s book called Stacey Speaks Up and it talks about how kids can get involved in this dynamic when a child is denied a school lunch. There’s a federal program called the Summer Books Program that could feed hungry children. And yet governors like Brian Kemp and governors like Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis have refused to accept the money because they say, well, it’s not going to be healthy for children because they think hunger is healthier than having any caloric intake. If you’re going to deny the solution, you cannot then to your point, moralize about why the problem exists. You are either part of the problem or you’re part of the solution. And while I am hopeful that Brooke Rawlins proves me wrong, her work with the American First Policy Institute suggests that she intends to be part of the problem. 

Jane Coaston: And what does Project 2025 say about addressing food insecurity? 

Stacey Abrams: So there are two big food programs. There is SNAP, and WIC. SNAP is the the supplemental food aid, is what used to be known as food stamps. And then WIC helps women, infant, and children. They intend to cut both of those programs. So you’re telling the poorest and the most vulnerable that we not only don’t intend to help you, we intend to blame you for your lot in life, deny you the benefits that would get you out of that and then hold you accountable for not having solved the problem on your own. Project 2025 is designed to harm communities. That is its purpose and the trend, the tangential program, which is what Brooke Rollins has lead, which is not the same as Project 2025, it’s sometimes worse. They’ve got a bunch of executive orders, they’ve got ready to go. They’re all designed to strip the most vulnerable of the very few levers they have to get things better. But knowing is why we need to take action. We’ve got to do the work of tackling this not only by paying attention at the federal level, but we’ve got to pay attention at the state and local level. We’ve got to pay attention to what’s happening in our schools, what’s happening at our state legislatures. Project 2025 might start in Washington, but it’s coming for a state legislature near you. 

Jane Coaston: Let’s get into some of those solutions. You just did an entire episode about food insecurity with Top Chef Judge Tom Colicchio for your show, Assembly Required. The two of you talked about Tom’s background as a food activist who has used his platform to advocate for food justice. He’s testified before Congress about hunger and spoken to tons of lawmakers about food insecurity. And as you said, state and local governments have a huge impact on hunger in our communities. Here’s a clip of Tom talking about it on your show. 

[clip of Tom Colicchio] But on the state on a state level, yes a lot can be done. A lot of the money comes from the federal government. But it’s actually, you know, especially looking at things like school lunch. Right, that’s a federal pr– it’s funded by the federal government, but that’s a state run, county run, you know, district run run program. And um when you looked at so many governors that weren’t taking that additional money. 

[clip of Stacey Abrams] Yeah. 

[clip of Tom Colicchio] That that the Biden administration was giving out and that’s just telling your constituents you don’t care for them. 

Jane Coaston: Can you paint a picture of how federal funds could improve neighborhoods beyond school lunches if allocated well?

[clip of Stacey Abrams] Now, I know you said beyond school lunches, but I want to bring that in because school lunches often help middle class and lower income families who can’t afford that extra meal because they’re paying higher rents. And so while we tend to think of school lunch programs as being purely about the poorest, it’s actually what the community is willing to support. Because we know if we had universal school lunch, that would actually reduce costs overall and would reduce prices at the grocery store. You could pay less at the grocery store if kids got to eat because the cost efficiency of schools buying all of that food actually reduces prices. Tom does an amazing job of describing that this is not about race. It is not about region. It’s not even totally about income. It’s about access. And we have access to opportunities, but we also have impediments to those opportunities that we don’t see because sometimes they’re invisible or because they’re just hard to look at directly. 

Jane Coaston: I think that that’s something that’s so important is and Tom touched on it, is what food insecurity actually looks like in our communities. Tom touched on it during your conversation. Here’s a clip. 

[clip of Tom Colicchio] This isn’t just an issue of poverty, because there’s hunger in every single county in this country. 

[clip of Stacey Abrams] Yeah. 

[clip of Tom Colicchio] And the difference in America is that it’s not like the Sally Struthers commercials that we we grew up on. It doesn’t look like hunger, doesn’t look like that in America, right. It doesn’t look like the kids with distended stomachs and flies flying around. It doesn’t look like that. It’s your neighbor who is struggling. 

Jane Coaston: So how can people like us do their part to help their neighbors throughout the year? Because food banks, a lot of times they get overrun for Thanksgiving and Christmas. But, you know, when kids are really hungry? Summer break. 

Stacey Abrams: Exactly. So one is make sure that if this is an issue that matters to you, that you’re giving and not just giving during Christmas and during Thanksgiving, as you pointed out, that you’re giving year round. Make that your financial contribution because people are always hungry. Number two, ask questions. Every single state has an ad committee at the state level. And so make sure you know who is in charge and make sure they hear from you. Number three, ask your community groups what they’re doing to tackle hunger. Is it that once a month you have a potluck? A potluck can solve a lot of problems for a family that’s trying to make it from week to week. If they know there’s one day a week or one day a month where they don’t have to solve for that meal, that’s not only stress relief. That’s food in the bellies. But then it’s also asking questions about the systems we have in place. We’re talking about zoning issues where you only have access to liquor stores and gas stations, not grocery stores. Where convenience stores are okay. But you can’t get the zoning or the income stream that you need to have a grocery store in your neighborhood. So we need to be asking zoning questions. And those questions can be asked by anybody who votes. You don’t have to live in the neighborhood of need to have the right to speak up. These aren’t just problems we can solve during the holidays. These are problems we can solve by believing that we have the right and the responsibility to take action. 

Jane Coaston: Stacy, thank you so much for coming on. 

Stacey Abrams: Thank you for having me. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Stacey Abrams. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: And now the news. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of President Joe Biden] I have some good news to report from the Middle East. We just spoke with the prime minister of Israel and uh Lebanon. I am pleased to announce that their governments have accepted the United States proposal to end the devastating conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. 

Jane Coaston: That’s President Joe Biden speaking Tuesday. The two month ceasefire went into effect at 4 a.m. local time today, and he said he hopes it will last longer. 

[clip of President Joe Biden] The fighting across the Lebanese-Israeli border will end. Will end. This is designed to be a permanent cessation of hostilities. 

Jane Coaston: The deal would be enforced by Lebanese troops and U.N. peacekeepers who would be stationed in southern Lebanon. There are some doubts as to how well they’ll be able to enforce it, though. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in his statement that Israel, quote, “reserves the right to act against every threat to its security.” At the same time as the agreement was announced, Israeli planes intensified bombing in Lebanon, including in Beirut’s crowded southern suburbs. But at a press conference Tuesday, Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he hopes the cease fire between Israel and Hezbollah bodes well for negotiations with Hamas as well. 

[clip of Antony Blinken] I also believe that by de-escalating tensions in the region, it can also help us to end the conflict in Gaza. In particular, Hamas will know that it can’t count on other fronts opening up in the war. 

Jane Coaston: President elect Donald Trump said on Monday that he wants to use his first day in office to enact sweeping tariffs on our three biggest trading partners, Mexico, Canada, and China. And since then, the reaction on Tuesday was a mix of concern and a sort of let’s see how this shakes out. On the concerned side, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he spoke with Trump Monday night and that they had a good talk. But he also said that he would hold an emergency meeting with other Canadian officials to figure out how to respond. 

[clip of Justin Trudeau] This is a relationship that we know takes a certain amount of working on, and that’s what we’ll do. Um. One of the really important things is that we be all pulling together on this. 

Jane Coaston: Mexico’s new president, Claudia Sheinbaum, said she was prepared to retaliate with similar tariffs. On the wait and see side, the world’s stock markets were mostly stable. But if Trump actually does this, the consequences could be huge. We could see higher prices on vegetables, cars, lumber, clothes, beer, electronic equipment, a whole bunch of stuff. I hate that for us. Donald Trump isn’t in the White House yet, but there’s already a scandal that someone in his inner circle has his palm open for bribes. Shocking. The adviser involved is Boris Epshteyn and he was under an internal investigation. That’s because he was accused of offering to put in a good word for two potential administration picks in exchange for money. One of those potential picks, Scott Bessant, who was nominated by Trump last week for Treasury secretary. The New York Times reported Epshteyn offered to promote Bessant in February for a cheap fee of 30 to $40,000 a month. That is too much money. Bessant turned the offer down. Trump himself told a conservative website that he was unaware of the allegations. Even Eric Trump chimed in on Fox News Monday, saying he’s never seen that side of Epshteyn, but there will be consequences if he did take bribes. 

[clip of Eric Trump] You do not. You do not do that and under any circumstance. And believe me, there will be repercussions if somebody was. 

Jane Coaston: At least one of Trump’s lawyers suggested that they cut Epshteyn’s access to Trump. But for now, it doesn’t seem like Trump’s transition team is taking the advice. Comms director Stephen Chung said in a statement that they’re, quote, “moving ahead together as a team.” The Biden administration says it wants Medicare and Medicaid to cover the cost of big name weight loss drugs like Wegovy and Zepbound. There’s an existing law that prevents Medicare from paying for drugs specifically for weight loss. The administration proposed a way to sidestep that law on Tuesday. These drugs can be prohibitively expensive. A month’s supply can cost more than $1,000. The change could make them available to millions of Americans who struggle with obesity. It also likely sets up an interesting standoff with Trump’s pick to head the Department of Health and Human Services. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. doesn’t like the drugs. He knocked the cost on Fox news ahead of the election. 

[clip of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.] If we spent about one fifth of that giving good food three meals a day to every man, woman and child in our country, we could solve the obesity and diabetes epidemic overnight. 

Jane Coaston: You know, those famously giving Republicans. But because Biden is at the end of his term, he can’t take it across the finish line. The incoming administration would need to endorse the change for it to become official. And that’s the news. [music break] One more thing. You may have seen a lot of media stories over the last few weeks or actually the last few years about how to talk about politics around your Thanksgiving table in our time of Trump. Or maybe you’ve been trying to figure out whether or not to broach the subject of politics with relatives you disagree with. Now, personally, I’m a non-confrontational person. Despite what I do for a living, I actually don’t talk about politics with my family very often. See, I was raised Catholic in Cincinnati, Ohio, where when it comes to politics or religion or feelings or anything serious, we follow an ancient tradition, best explained by comedian John Mulaney. We keep our emotions right around the solar plexus region, and then we eventually die. So I’m not the best person to ask about how to talk about politics with your cousin you love so much, but who thinks tariffs are going to bring back the American avocado industry or something. And I’ll also say you can just talk about anything else. Has your cousin seen Wicked yet? Did they sing in the theater? Why did they sing in the theater? Could they possibly please not sing in the theater next time? But I digress. You know who is ready to chat about how best to talk about politics with your family? Brian Tyler Cohen. He’s one of the most popular progressives on YouTube, and he spends a ton of time talking about how to change minds, even the ones belonging to your nearest and dearest. We got to talk about how to handle the holidays with MAGA loving family, and we even agree to disagree on the critical issue of which pies are best. Brian, welcome to What a Day. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: So let’s start with you. Do you talk about politics with your family at Thanksgiving? Because I do not. I choose peace and I choose avoidance because I’m from the Midwest and that’s what we do. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah. Well, as a as a coastal elite, going back to New Jersey for the holidays, it’s okay. Like when I talk to my family, it’s not a situation where there’s any hostility, um at least my immediate–

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: –family. There’s no hostility. We’ll talk about it in the sense that it’s it’s what I’ve got to talk about. You know, I’ve at this point sacrificed so much of my life that it’s not really like I can talk about anything other than what was on C-Span that day. 

Jane Coaston: Right. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: So so I’m kind of forced to in that sense. But um there is a there is a definitely a limit that I’m willing to talk about politics when I’m when I’m off the clock, so to speak. 

Jane Coaston: Right. There is something like when you work in this field. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: People just ask you questions. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: And often it’s in Ubers in which I’m like, no, we’re not doing this. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: You you have to get the you have to go– 

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: –ear buds right away. 

Jane Coaston: Yep, yep, yep. But then when it’s with family, you kind of feel like you need to participate in this conversation because they’re–

Brian Tyler Cohen: Some sense of obligation. 

Jane Coaston: They’re trying to make it work. Are you has your approach to these conversations changed since 2016? 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yes, and I think it’s going to have probably the most pronounced change now. And the reason I say that is because now we’re entering a period of uncertainty. And I think a lot of people rightfully are worried about what’s to come. And so there’s a lot of like, well, what about this? What happens with the mass deportations? What happens with women’s reproductive rights? What’s going to happen with X, Y, Z? And I think this is an instance where I think it’s incumbent upon all of us to um show a little restraint because we’re going to have a lot of nightmarish things to talk about for the next four years. Way too many for comfort. And so this is an instance where I think that we’ll have these opportunities anyway when they come up. So let’s not kind of concoct things that haven’t happened yet um and just get ourselves worked up in advance. 

Jane Coaston: Right. So what’s your advice for people who do want to have these conversations at the dinner table but feel unequipped to talk about politics with people who might disagree with them? Or also where it’s so personal, where it’s not like arguing with someone on Twitter, it’s arguing with like your godfather. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: How do you have those conversations? Or if you don’t want to have those conversations but you feel like you’re forced into them by your extremely combative cousin? 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah, I think, first of all, I don’t think anybody should be forced to talk about something that they don’t want to talk about. And if that means that you’re not going to be prepared to to have a political discussion because you either feel ill equipped to do so or you just don’t want to, that’s fine. And you can just you can step aside. But otherwise, I do think, look, the reason that I do my YouTube channel is because my goal is to equip people with some facts that they can bring in to these conversations. I think it’s going to become more incumbent on people to consume progressive media and to know like what the facts are in terms of pushing back against this stuff. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, I’m I’m curious also because I’ve done a lot of work on fact checking and found and many times it doesn’t work. Like if I explain to a relative that actually tariffs are a tax on the American people and they say, no, it isn’t. Because they want it to be true that it isn’t. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Right. 

Jane Coaston: It’s so hard to get past that. So how do you come in with facts and being prepared? But also recognizing that a lot of times people’s political opinions are sadly not very shaped by facts. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Right. And they’re entrenched in the way that they are. So I think that this is a microcosm for the political environment more broadly. Not everybody is persuadable. And that’s okay. And sometimes it’s a matter of of expending our resources smartly and efficiently as opposed to just wherever we are at any given moment in time. So if we have you know, I’m sure that there are people out there who have very entrenched um family members in whatever political ideology they they follow, some people are not worth expending that energy to try and persuade people if they’re immovable. And and as is the case with politics more broadly, focus our energy on people who are up for grabs, who are persuadable. And I think that will that will save a little bit of sanity and probably some um holiday dinner etiquette as well. 

Jane Coaston: Well, let’s close on something that we can all come together around. Why is pumpkin pie so good? 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Oh man, you picked the one thing that I’m probably not going to be able to to to stand behind. 

Jane Coaston: Oh no. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: I’m not. I think pumpkin pie is overrated. 

Jane Coaston: Wow. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: Wow. 

Speaker 1 I I–

Jane Coaston: Well I’m not persuadable on this issue. [laugh] So–

Brian Tyler Cohen: See, you’ve learned and I think that’s that’s how it’s coming full circle right now. Sometimes it’s not worth it for for for me to expend my energy on somebody who’s immovable, even if just to say that pecan pie is absolutely the best holiday pie there is. 

Jane Coaston: There will be more pumpkin pie for me. Brian, thank you so much for coming on. 

Brian Tyler Cohen: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Brian Tyler Cohen. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a review. Take your turkey out to defrost because I know you’ve forgotten. And tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading and not just about how grateful we should be that we no longer enjoy certain Thanksgiving dishes like turkey aspic and savory Jell-O salads like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston and enjoy the long weekend. I know I will. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison. And our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. [music break] [AD BREAK]