Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison the Third?

 

Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel and I remember you were still in Mexico from the looks of the apartment you’re in. I had no idea this was going to be like a sojourn for you.

 

Ira Madison III That’s the truth.

 

Louis Virtel Ain’t you a woman? That’s Sojourner Truth, right? Okay.

 

Ira Madison III No I am in Mexico City still, and let me tell you something. I had no idea that Tate McCray was going to be here for her Miss Possessive Tour. I was at lunch and as you do in Mexico city, you tend to run into people from LA and New York all the time because everyone just loves to hide out here like Daniel Craig. I ran into our friend Noah Buck. He was here and he said, Tate, McCray is performing tonight. I have an extra ticket. You’re coming.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, well, by the way, I’m sure she’s a lovely concert because half of what she does is by the way gymnastics, like she walks on stage and she goes, here comes my new song. And then there’s parallel bars.

 

Ira Madison III She likes to kick. She’s 50.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. The Sally O’Malley of Young Hot Pop Stars.

 

Ira Madison III And honestly, I have been very into her album. So Close to What is the name of the album? Still a very weird title because what are you so close to, girl?

 

Louis Virtel Also, you just said it and then I forgot the name of it. Like it doesn’t stick. So heard the big song in this album is Sports Car, which I just heard is among the most popular stream songs of the year. And I feel like that’s a gay niche playlist song that somehow made it super big.

 

Ira Madison III I just want to say, first of all, before I even get into this concert, have you looked at the lyrics to Sports Car? Because they are the funniest lyrics that I’ve heard out of a vintage pop song in quite some time. No, I do not know them. Hey cute jeans, take mine off me. Oh golly gee, I can’t take no more. I’m going weak in my knees.

 

Louis Virtel Golly gee, this ain’t-o Annie ass.

 

Ira Madison III And then she’s like, I think you know what this is. I think he wanna know you ain’t got no Mrs. Oh, but you got a sports car. We can in it while you drive it real far. This is…

 

Louis Virtel I mean, it’s also giving how many times in Grace Jones’s many awesome pop songs, does she compare herself to a car while having sex? I’m talking about warm leatherette. I’m taking about pull up to the bumper, which is, can you believe a woman just called the song pull up the bumper? This is a nasty woman. We used to use the phrase nasty woman all the time. It actually applies here.

 

Ira Madison III Do you think that fast car is also about sex?

 

Louis Virtel Not much. They weren’t really getting down at the shelter, it sounded like.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Tracy Chapman was more admiring the car, I think it was her escape hatch.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. She wasn’t like, yeah, pull up to the welfare line and have sex with me there or whatever. The vibe of that song actually is.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, I would say that Miss Tate McCray’s concert was, it wasn’t a concert where it made me fall more in love with her. I didn’t leave the concert loving her more than I already do. I kind of already enjoy the album. I like her. But I didn’ leave it being super possessed with her as this amazing pop star. I thought it was fun. It felt very, I’m hanging out with the girls doing some dancing and the vocals were fine. The mic was on.

 

Louis Virtel I had questions about that because by the way, she’s obviously really moving out there and her foot is way over her head. She’s Cheetah Rivera the entire time she’s on stage. But then also, it seems like somebody who sings too. It’s not fully lip synced ever.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, I think my main complaint probably with the show, and this is taking us back to, you know, days of Brittany and et cetera, Janet Jackson, Madonna, even, there’s a lot of movement in Tate McRae’s dances. You know, it’s very sexy. It’s very, there’s some shimmying, but she wants to also make sure that you know that she’s singing too. I need more dance breaks. I need eight more counts. The shimmying is fine, but then I was ready for, okay, put the mic down and give me 30 seconds of a full dance break. And we didn’t really get a lot of dance breaks in the concert. There’s a lot movement, but there’s not a lot hard-hitting dancing. And that’s what I need from a pop star, especially if your whole thing is I’m a dancer.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, like that’s her X factor. I mean she, her whole thing is former, so you think you can dance contestant. If I’m going to the concert, I’m gonna see that and of course, by the way, it’s extremely welcome because we don’t really have the pop star who is doing the Janet Jackson thing right now. It’s like, I’m psyched to see Lady Gaga have such good choreography in this new era and she is a good dancer. But still it’s not like, sometimes you wanna go to a concert and see the Juilliard. You wanna see the Paula Abdullification. You know, virology is what we used to call it.

 

Ira Madison III But the people know her songs, let’s just say that. The kids around me screaming the lyrics for every single fucking song. So she’s huge. I feel like we’re banking the GDP on Tate McCray at this point.

 

Louis Virtel Also, of course, she is 10 minutes old. The woman is 21 years old or something. Yeah. Like who else is like the upsettingly young pop star at the moment? It feels like everybody is sort of mid 20s or upper right now, at least in terms of people who are really hitting.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Billy’s older now.

 

Louis Virtel Well, Billy’s probably like 24 or something, but even like Billy is categorically just a completely different performer than this part. Like her vibe is entirely singer-songwriter. Yeah, but I’m waiting for Billy’s dance era. I think she’s got it. Well, also every time she’s on stage, she is compelling. Like when she was at Coachella and there’s that footage of her like just spinning in a circle. I mean, star power. She could have such a grasp on that while also seeming like such a studio junkie is really wild.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of performers, Selena Gomez released an album this week with her paramour Benny Blanco, and we’re going to get into that.

 

Louis Virtel There aren’t too many couple oriented albums that I can think of. Obviously the Carter’s comes to mind and we’ve talked about on this podcast. So that’s a very underrated album. You can just put that on at a pool party, start to finish and the vibes are right the entire time. But otherwise, I mean, it’s just not that common. Like maybe once upon a time, like in the folkier days, you’d have people like Richard and Linda Thompson. But since then, you know, like the Carpenters, they seem like they were married, but no, they were brother and sister. If they check into the White Lotus, you never know. They’ve been on my mind. And now that you’ve brought up the White lotus, I’ll say we’ll also just be catching up on what the hell we’re watching on TV these days. I personally have been watching The Residence, the new Shondaland show, because there’s a whodunit now featuring the talents of Jane Curtin and Kylie Minogue. And this feels like something I simply dreamed. And then now life made it real. Rarely does life give me the thing I’m dreaming about. So we’ll get into that, too, in addition to things like the white lotus, for example.

 

Ira Madison III And we also have the fantastic Rosamund Pike here with us this week.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me, she came on the Zoom and there is something immediately commanding about her. The pupils are fire. Well, I said like, get on your game, get the questions together. She is a brilliant actress. The Pride and Prejudice she’s in with Keira Knightley is now 20 years old this year. Definitely rewatchable. That’s a movie where I can’t even pick a favorite performance. Okay, I will. I’m Brenda Blathin.

 

Ira Madison III All right, when we are back, it’s more Keep It.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III The last time we heard Selena Gomez on the radio, she was dying to be single soon. And now, she’s engaged to music producer Benny Blanco, and to celebrate their love, the happy couple released a joint album titled, I Said I Love You First. All right, I don’t really need to get into their relationship like that though.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, too much. They are surprisingly, given that she sort of retreats from interviews, doesn’t seem like super excited to be doing it at any given time, kind of a lot as a couple. Like they are a bit of a pop culture onslaught.

 

Ira Madison III Girl, let’s talk about that queso bathtub.

 

Louis Virtel What I said a lot, I meant queso bathtub. That’s what that means.

 

Ira Madison III So this is Salida’s first studio album since 2020 is rare. And so we’re going to get into her new sound, if there is one, plus some of our favorite couple albums of all time. And I just want to say, I forgot really that Benny Blanco was a producer. Obviously I know that he’s a producer, but when I heard joint album, my brain sort of immediately went to, are they singing together? And then I remembered as I was listening to it, oh no, he’s just producing. And it’s really just a Selena Gomez album with him as the producer. And that I’m on board with.

 

Louis Virtel Right, no, what we used to call the mutlang approach, with Shania Twain. She’ll be singing about, don’t come into this saloon with your boots on, whatever she’s singing about. And then he sits behind the mic and is like, we’ll use the same chord progressions as Def Leppard, it’ll be great.

 

Ira Madison III I actually kind of enjoy this album quite a bit, and I’m shocked that I do. I don’t know if I’m that shocked because I tend to enjoy Selena Gomez’s albums. I liked Rare. I’m always back and forth on whether I prefer her in the music space or whether I prefer her in the acting space. I recall. on this show before I was excited when she was joining Only Murders because I loved her in Wizards of Waverly Place growing up. I was always stoned watching it in college. To me, she was the funniest fucking person on TV at the time. It was probably the weed, but I did enjoy that and I enjoyed her performance, but I would say Only Murters in the Building has seemed to gone on for far too long. And I would love for everyone involved, especially all the guest stars to go and make movies again. And also the Amelia Perez of it all has sort of soured me on wanting to see Selena do some acting right now. So I’m happy to listen to her sing again.

 

Louis Virtel I actually thought she was mostly good. In Amelia Perez, that said, I was talking to a Spanish speaker over the weekend and he was going scene by scene through the scenes where it feels like chat GPT wrote the script and a Spanish figure wasn’t involved at all. And I have to say, I don’t speak Spanish. And so maybe my judgment on this is just not that important. I agree. I prefer Selena Gomez as a singer. I mean, again, singing, it’s sort of liberally defined. I mean she still sounds like Eminem minis. You know what I mean? in the commercial when they pop out of the can. That’s her. She does have three A plus singles. I am of course talking about Love You Like a Love Song. If that song comes on, you’re at the right place. I don’t know who The Scene is. They’re credited with Selena Gomez, but congrats to them. Long live The Scene. Right, if there ever was one. Her two other awesome singles, Hands to Myself. which I forgot that I saw Taylor Swift’s Reputation Tour and she came out and did that song. I am not kidding. It was the most bangerific song of the night. People were up on their feet. I know you love Reputation, but it did seem a lot like Taylor in sparkly unitards slapping her knees and saying, what? Or because it was like faux gangster at the time. It was a little worrisome.

 

Ira Madison III I like it when my white girls get a little hood.

 

Louis Virtel And believe me, it was a little, and then her other A plus song is Look At Her Now, which sounded a little bit like a printer, you know, but it was really good and if anybody can harmonize with a printer it’s Selena.

 

Ira Madison III I love that these are your favorite Selena Gomez songs.

 

Louis Virtel As opposed to what?

 

Ira Madison III Come and get it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, but like that could have been sung by anybody. That’s like Demi Lovato on up to whoever else happened. Like Julia Michaels could have sung that.

 

Ira Madison III Good for you?

 

Louis Virtel Okay, creepily sexual song.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fair. And Same Old Love, which was written by Charlie XCX, who also wrote Bluest Flame on this album.

 

Louis Virtel Getting to this album. Here’s the thing, there’s an inherently mournful quality to Selena Gomez’s voice and I prefer it when she pairs that with a dance beat because I find that to be sort of a signature blend for her. So the upbeat songs on this album, which are kind of few and far between, I think are the best moments on the album, like Sunset Boulevard, I Enjoy, Call Me When You Break Up, which I think is sort of the signature song of the album. That said, as an album, It’s very unified, and I think. It’s a bit of a vulnerable album too, and so I’m not surprised to hear that Taylor Swift recently broke her Instagram hiatus to compliment the album. It sort of feels in line with one of her, you know, more forest-oriented albums.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I love the sort of melancholy vibe of Selena’s voice, as you said. That’s why I like kind of the slower songs on the album. I really think my favorite is Ojos Tristes, which means sad eyes in English. I don’t know, it feels like a sad anthem. It’s been nice to walk around the city listening to it and imagining I’m thinking about someone’s eyes. I don’ know. The Noah’s guy.

 

Louis Virtel Do you think Salina’s seen that? She’s like, yeah. Any of all the deep Cameron Crowe hits, she’s up on.

 

Ira Madison III I think she’s seen Vanilla Sky. Vanilla sky seems like a Tumblr coded film.

 

Louis Virtel That’s a good essay question for the room. Comment below, has Selena Gomez seen Vanilla Sky? Okay. No, but also it’s kind of a good album to wake up to. It’s not something I imagined like if your day is powering ahead, you would just slide this on. But if you’re getting out of bed and like motioning into the day, I think it can accompany you on that journey.

 

Ira Madison III Mm, well, I mean, I prefer Folgers in my cup, but I will say that this album has shaken me awake a bit.

 

Louis Virtel And also, again, it works as an album and I can only be thankful to the people who consistently make albums that keep the format alive. And I think the kind of prime way people want to experience music, you know, again I think that’s mostly Beyonce and Taylor Swift who have made that an institution we’re not letting go of. And so when I get an album like this, and you know Billie Eilish too, people like that. I can only be. thankful for it really. And also I will say the lyrics on this album, sometimes pretty witty too. Like Selena Gomez always has a little bit of snark in whatever she does. And I appreciate that because I feel like she handles the very outsize amount of paid to her with a bit of snark and so that feels kind of legit and sincere.

 

Ira Madison III I also just love that she works with Charli XCX. I love that. She works with this little known pop star named Gracie Abrams. I don’t know if you’ve heard of her father or something, but I like that. She works. With other female producers, you know, she’s always seems to be on the forefront of grabbing someone who’s fun and going to make a meal out of her voice in the studio. and it’s anything. the onslaught that we’ve gotten of her and Benny Blanco in the media, I would say it’s worth it as long as it was just promo for this album, which I really sort of enjoy and I like his production with her. I haven’t really thought of his production in quite some time, to be honest, and I feel like this is almost a lovely calling card and reintroduction to him as a producer and maybe some other people might wanna link up with him again.

 

Louis Virtel Gracie Abrams, of course, is also on the song, call me when you break up. Actually, I have to say she slays her little moment on it. She and Selena are sort of ideal vocal partners. They’re not giving you the Mariah acrobatics, shall we say, the Joni high notes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, although I would love Selena Gomez’s unplugged or at least her cribs.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, I’m sure she has 90 cribs to choose from. That was always the problem with cribs, you’d be letting to a celebrity’s home and I’m like, have you been in this one in six months? You know, like, I remember Alanis Morissette taking it. She’s like, oh, here’s my place in Vancouver. I’m, like there’s no way you’re spending all your time in Vancouver

 

Ira Madison III Uh, lastly, I will say that song with Zed is also a banger. Which one is that? I want you to know. Oh yes, that is good. That is good You hear that song in the club and you are twirling around like you’re on Molly and maybe you are.

 

Louis Virtel Right, it’s been done. It’s been said, it been had. Zed also is one of those people where the music is occasionally so good and club ready and yet you’re not gay and it just feels like who taught you how to have fun? Why do you know this? This is something we tried to keep from you.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, a straggit, if you will.

 

Louis Virtel Straggit is such an important word, and we don’t say it anymore, and it’s the only word available for what that is.

 

Ira Madison III Now, we were talking a bit before about couples in music, and there really aren’t a lot. You brought up the Carters, and that album is still one of my favorite albums of Beyonce’s.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. No, again, you can play it start to finish. It’s an evocative mood piece. And of course the videos on it are amazing too. One of my favorite recordings, this isn’t an album. At the time when James Taylor and Carly Simon were together, they did, you Can Close Your Eyes, which is a very popular YouTube video, but Jesus, they sound amazing together. That was a very fraught relationship ultimately, but I can’t imagine not being huge fans of both of those people. I want to reiterate that it took Karlie Simon like 25 years later to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than James Taylor, even though she has an Oscar and probably the more, a word I hate using, iconic hits. But she did get in. So that was something I would harp on at the beginning of Keep It years ago. And I just want to say, I think I was part of the revolution that made that occur.

 

Ira Madison III I want to say to you, by the way, I was thinking of Carly Simon because my friend was visiting this weekend and playing some Carly-Simon videos. And usually when you think of Carli Simon, you’re thinking of you’re so vain and you’re thinking of these, these slower.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah Anticipation. The singer-songwriter guitar songs, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, but he played me this music video called Why by Carly Simon, and I was like, I did not know that this bitch was in the club.

 

Louis Virtel No, I talked about that song on this podcast before and in fact, there’s a cover of it recently by an artist named holiday sidewinder That’s really good. But um you put on why you are immediately transported to exactly a pool in Palm Springs and It’s hypnotic. It’s only a couple of lines of lyrics But wait till you put it on I’m telling you it’s like a sexy vibe and Carly Simon is a part of it And the in the album sleeve art she’s wearing like an animal print. So she had a feral moment

 

Ira Madison III I am such a fan of doing deep dives into the sort of early 80s eras of pop stars where we really sort of don’t remember what they were doing around then. Like if you listen to Pieces of Ice by Diana Ross, that’s another amazing song and a crazy ass video and it’s just, I had no idea that these things were happening.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, the era you’re talking about the early 80s is kind of lost to time. Because after Thriller happened, then all of music changed and became the iconic 80s you know. But up until that point, it’s only things like Olivia Newton John and Air Supply and Aureo Speedwagon that are popping. It’s like we haven’t gotten into the real 80s yet.

 

Ira Madison III And they aren’t videos that were really sort of airing on MTV at the time, too. Or they were, but they’ve sort of been ignored when people decided to make real videos.

 

Louis Virtel No, when it became an art form and not just you know, there were a couple of experimental videos from that time that were interesting, but most of them, if they have any iconography about them, it’s because they’re associated with the first minutes of MTV.

 

Ira Madison III And as Whitney once famously said, I remember I couldn’t get on.

 

Louis Virtel That’s right. By the way, speaking of couples who made music that was good or bad, Whitney and Bobby, something in common? Not a shining moment for either of them.

 

Ira Madison III I was thinking about bringing that up because that is really the only collaboration that they have. Right, because God said

 

Louis Virtel I’ve had enough.

 

Ira Madison III Well, besides the reality show.

 

Louis Virtel Which was, I mean, throw the Peabody’s at that shit.

 

Ira Madison III There is nothing like seeing Whitney Houston sing the Black Eyed Peas shut up in a car dealership.

 

Louis Virtel Come on, TV used to be good. Ha ha ha.

 

Ira Madison III couples making music. This is obviously Louis bait, but Captain and Tenille.

 

Louis Virtel Ugh, when they broke up, which was only a few years ago, that made me, I’m sorry, it made me want to buy a gun. I just, I was like, I didn’t, I was, like, I didn’ want to belong to this place. Their music is fabulous. A lot of it is deeply easy listening. So it sounds like your parents’ music, but every once in a while, those two made some sexy music. I know you and I have talked about this before. They have a song called, You Never Done It Like That, which one of the lyrics is, She’s cooing a lot in this song. She goes, mm-hmm. And she goes, you had me crawling up the wall, I believe, is the lyric. Tony, that is naughty.

 

Ira Madison III that reminds me of a saga there’s that I love throwing on at parties because no one has ever heard of this god damn Captain Intennial song and it sounds so unlike the rest of their catalog which is love will keep us together etc. It is how can you be so cold off of 1979’s make your And when you listen to this…

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that is a disco song and it is a fast disco song.

 

Ira Madison III It’s disco, it’s long, it sexy. I play it for people and they’re always like, this is sort of like horse meat disco ready. And it is sort the only song in their catalog which sounds like that, which is so weird.

 

Louis Virtel No, because you forget at that time that people sort of made disco attempts, and most of them were rejected, you know, because then disco became kind of uncool or too white, and you know, people started rejecting it. But Tony Tenille, the X Factor with hers, that is a vocalist. Tony Tenile sounds amazing on the record. So don’t underestimate what they bring. And that song is truly fabulous. Put it on. I’m not kidding. Just throw it on and see what happens.

 

Ira Madison III And then I guess from that era too, I want to ask what you think about Ashford and Simpson.

 

Louis Virtel I’m alive when you bring up Ashford and Simpson. Solid as a Rock is their most famous song, but they have another song called Don’t Cost You Nothing, which is quite saucy and sassy. It reminds you of something like Quincy Jones would have produced in the late 70s. And in fact, he worked with Ashford & Simpson a lot. Solid as A Rock, though, ain’t nothing wrong with that song either.

 

Ira Madison III Every time I think of Solid as a Rock, I just always think of Maya Rudolph doing Solid as Barack.

 

Louis Virtel It’s nice to know, I mean like I am thankful for sketch companies sometimes and things like RuPaul’s Drag Race because they keep the images of long ago pop culture alive. I keep thinking when we’re talking about snatch game on RuPauls Drag Race and how it’s often so not that funny like the queens have to play a celebrity who’s generally from a bygone era and the queens aren’t comedians in that way so it doesn’t work out. I’m like, what we’re still doing is talking about making a match game parody sketch. And so I think RuPaul in general deserves credit for keeping so much old pop culture alive and relevant and hilarious, frankly.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, I would just say that I feel like we need more husband and wife duos in music. That era of the 70s just feels sexy. It feels like people were fucking and making music. Yeah. And that’s sort of what you need. And I will also just throw one last couple in the ring, which is my friends, Alana and Patrick, who are in the band Tennis. They have a new album coming out. which I’ve heard, and it’s fantastic. And they sort of lean into that 70s sort of vibe. The videos are always trippy and fun. And it’s just nice to see people who are making music together and to sort of see how their sound evolves over the years.

 

Louis Virtel And I want to name drop one more couple too, which is Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis Jr. who are a part of the Fifth Dimension. They’ve been together for 55 years. Huge Grammy winners early on because of their connection with Hair, Aquarius, Let the Sunshine In, and also Up Up and Away. But their music in general, she is a crazy vocalist. You may know her later on, she hosted the show Solid Gold, which is like the definitive disco music series on TV. They were also featured in that movie Summer of Soul because they appeared at that festival. And the two of them, you can go to like any casino in America and they’re performing and they fucking bring it to every ball. They are a great duo. The Fifth Dimension, I just love their music top to bottom and they did a lot of covers of one of my favorite songwriters, Laura Nero. So they’re covers of Wedding Bell Blues I love, of Stone Soul Picnic, great couple. I think Solid Gold needs to come back. And then of course, and speaking of solid gold, Dionne Warwick hosted that once upon a time too. I’m wearing a Dionne warwick shirt as you guys.

 

Ira Madison III Alright, we’ll be right back with Rosamund Pike, but before that, some quick housekeeping.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Ira Madison III We are so excited to talk to today’s guest. She is a Golden Globe winner, an Oscar and BAFTA nominee known for tense, subdued performances in projects like Gone Girl, Saltburn, and I Care A Lot. She’s also the star of Prime Video’s epic fantasy series, The Wheel of Time, whose third season is airing now. Please welcome to Keep It, Rosamund Pike.

 

Rosamund Pike Hi everyone, thanks for having me on.

 

Ira Madison III Thanks for being here.

 

Louis Virtel Rosamund, hearing you talk about this show, when people are in like a gigantic fantasy series, I often feel bad for them because there’s so much lore they have to know. You seem so casually aware of every intricacy of this show and all of the characters, and you’ve obviously done the audio book or whatever. Are you just a fantasy-oriented person?

 

Rosamund Pike I was just laughing when you said casually. I was thinking, there’s nothing casual about it. I’ve been locked in a studio for 300 hours on my own reading the books. And that’s not including the preparation. So I’ve become a fantasy nerd, for sure, not necessarily by design. I think when I was invited to read the books for Macmillan in a new version of the audiobooks, I thought, well… it would be wonderful to have it as an accompaniment to our show so I kind of can give a feeling of our actors in all the characters. So if someone’s listening alongside watching the show, there are voices that tally with the way they’re portrayed on screen, which has gone pretty well apart from when a character appears in the books before they appear in the series. And then, you know, as in the case of this marvelous character Fahil, who comes in season three, we were introduced to her in the Dragon Reborn. which is book three and she was cast in our season three after I’d already recorded it and she picked an Egyptian accent to do for her character because she’s part Egyptian so that was one I didn’t foresee so my faille and that faille, and our faille is very different but apart from that it’s gone all right.

 

Ira Madison III What’s so fun about this show is I feel like you’re in all of these different locations. I mean, you’re in the desert a lot, and there are a lot of different costumes and things. And I just wonder, do you enjoy, I guess, the aspect of being in an action series and sort of exercising a different muscle than you do when you’re in a dramatic non-sci-fi work?

 

Rosamund Pike I mean, the fact that we’re doing a series on this scale and we’re still going to location is something I do not take for granted. You know, being on the border with Namibia in the northernmost part of South Africa in blazing heat with scorpions running across the set and snakes and…

 

Ira Madison III And you’re in suits.

 

Rosamund Pike Yeah, I mean, I was lucky. Moraine is in a dress. The Aïeel are pretty buttoned up. There’s not much airflow going through those costumes. We were saying there’s sort of two ways to do a closeup in the Aïel waist. There’s kind of head down so that the sun’s not in your eyes. All this kind of, head back and sort of squinting wildly because it was a searing heat like you would not believe. But I do not take it for granted because it adds so much texture to our world so much. The fact that it is genuinely difficult to shoot there just brings a crew and cast together like nothing else. And then occasionally you get these biblical moments of kind of the Earth’s glory where the sunset is just so spectacular. You think Robert Jordan, sort of, it’s what he wrote for, you know, he who comes with the dawn as Rand comes out of Rwydian. You know, it couldn’t be more spectacular. there are those bits, but in high fantasy, yes, I mean there are moments, you know, we’re all wearing kind of our desert glasses because we have to protect our eyes and then whip them off for the actual filming, but you know we do look like we’re in a, we’re properly characters in a sci-fi. I mean it’s exciting and you know and then there are magical moments like when we realize we’re walking on a bed of crystals and people look down and they can find smokey quartzes just sort of strewn on our set. that the earth has kind of given up.

 

Louis Virtel I was thinking of the reasons you’re so compelling on screen, and one of them is that I feel like you can make a minute change to your face and like the glint in your eye will change or something. And I realize, do you like taking a ton of takes to do something so that you can do like experiment with really small facial movements? because it feels so precise, almost everything you do on screen.

 

Rosamund Pike Well, that’s a very nice thing to say. I think very early on in my career, somebody told me I had a scene to do where I didn’t have any lines. And she said, oh, she said those are the best ones, she said because then you just listen and everything will just happen on your face if you really listen. And I always think that’s the key to acting is really listening. And then you don’t really have to do anything. I think it’s just about really listening and letting everything happen as if you’ve never heard it before. And then I think, You know, you’re very kind to say it’s a craft, but I think it’s just the natural human instincts. If you’re alive to what a character is thinking and what impact a certain bit of information will have on them, then all you have to do is listen with that character’s ears.

 

Ira Madison III It’s interesting to hear about that aspect of acting for you, because I feel like you’re also so great at working in the audio space. Obviously, you’ve narrated some of these books for Macmillan, but then also you worked in one of our friends, Travis Hellwig’s series, Edith. Oh. And that was fantastic, too.

 

Louis Virtel saying, Edith Wilson, first lady, yes.

 

Ira Madison III And how do you prepare to do that sort of active listening or sort of like taking on a character in the audio space where I’ve recorded an audio book myself and it’s sort of, you’re there alone, you know? You’re not really working with other people.

 

Rosamund Pike That’s true. There’s not so much active listening, not so much active, listening when you’re doing all the talking. I hear you there very, very good pivot to call me up on my own. Yeah. I mean, the headphones gives you some feedback, doesn’t it? As you’re having now, you get some feedback on your. But I honestly think it’s the same skill. I think you’re inhabiting the parts as really, whether you’re in audio only space or film or television or theater. When I narrate the books, I’m living inside all of those characters, and sometimes I have to stop because something’s made me cry. And I think, bloody hell, how have I ended up so moved by this writing? And it’s because you’re living it, you’re not just reading it, and it doesn’t happen, I think if you’re sight reading. Well, sometimes it does, but it’s more when you sort of know what’s coming and you’re inhabiting it. But Edith, I mean, your friend Travis, he’s such a ace writer. and it was so witty, it was that playing with form that I love. I love things that are provocative, and you know, he’s taking the story of Edith Wilson, Woodrow Wilson’s wife, who pretended to the whole American public that Woodrow was just, you know suffering from a minor ailment when in fact he was in a coma. And she effectively ran the White House while her husband was in the coma for many months. I mean, it’s an astonishing story and that they made it so modern and witty and. You know, I had so much fun making that, doing that. I’ve tangled myself in a knot now. With my active listening, I’ve gotten to a sort of loop.

 

Ira Madison III Hahaha

 

Rosamund Pike Listening to my own voice and being bored by it, so I’m going to shut up now.

 

Louis Virtel I was just looking at your filmography, and first of all, you’ve been in so many of our favorite movies the past 20 years, but there’s something so rare about the movies you’ve chosen, which is even going back to your first movie, which was Die Another Day, which among a blockbuster movie is a more interesting choice. At least there’s some wit going on in a Bond movie. Everything you choose is interesting. Looking at all of your credits, I can’t look at any one thing and say, oh, you only did that because, I don’t know, it cost $400 million to make. Like there’s always like interesting character choices. And I was just wondering, like, what goes into you choosing a project? Because even, like your most mainstream offerings are things like Saltburn, which are fucking crazy.

 

Rosamund Pike Well, you know, it’s what I’m amused by. I mean, you’re very nice. At the beginning of your career, there isn’t such a thing as choice. You’re just grateful to be offered work. You know, the Bond film chose me and I didn’t know what I was being propelled into, age 21. I had very little idea. I’d had a very overprotective upbringing and had not even seen a Bond film. So I literally didn’t what I getting myself into. And then was sort of swooped up in this huge machine helmed by the incredible Barbara Broccoli. and taken under the wing of Piers Brosnan and somehow got through it. But I’m hyper aware of all our young actors on the set of The Wheel of Time because even though they’re in their early 20s and they seem confident, I remember being in my early 20’s and not being half as confident as I appeared. I mean, just longing for some support that I think because my character was so sophisticated, nobody really gave me credit for the 22-year-old nervous brain that was reeling inside the Armani suits. But sometimes it’s just been about pivoting, sometimes, you know, I remember being on set of Pride and Prejudice in a bonnet in a cornfield and getting a call that Universal wanted me to be in doom with The Rock. And I just thought that was so funny, if The Rock could have seen me at that minute in my bonnet and my, you now, Jane Austen get up, if he would have had second thoughts about wanting me to, you, know, on a mission to Mars in doom. I mean, so there are things that just amuse you in the moment, and… And often I felt that there’s been, I’ve had a secret about a part that’s quite small. I always think you don’t have to play the biggest part to get noticed. And there was a lovely part in An Education, which is a lovely film that kind of propelled Carey Mulligan to stardom. And she was obviously my little sister in Pride and Prejudice, and we remained friends. And there’s this character called Helen, which on the page only had a few lines, but I found the lines very funny. And I thought, I’d like to play that part. And it turned out that that was kind of my invitation into more comedy, because I was right, she was funny. But it was only by the sort of… And I think it’s Helen was the beginning of all characters, you know, of which Elspeth in Saltburn has been the latest incarnation. You know, it’s the self-involved, slightly posh English woman. Then she was a sort of girl. But it’s, the vanity and the self regard and… and the sort of lack of intelligence, or certainly intelligence beneath what they believe they have, that is quite a source of humor and has been. So yeah, and I’ve just done a big comedy with Sacha Baron Cohen, which is a very different thing and a very offering. And I don’t know what we’ve made. We’ve made something provocative for sure, but how it will be received will be determined. And maybe we can speak again at that point.

 

Ira Madison III You just mentioned that you’ve been in, I guess, three projects with Carey Mulligan. And so what’s that like as an actor to be able to not just work with a friend over so many years, but, you know, to sort of see your own careers and your sort of acting abilities develop, you know particularly from an education and then to now Saltburn, where you two are much more established actors and sort of like aware of what you’re doing on set.

 

Rosamund Pike Yeah, I mean, it’s a dream. I sort of think, why can’t you work with the same people all the time, because it obviously creates a shorthand. And there’s a level of ease with one another that you can feel the history, I think. That’s what the old Hollywood studio system used to do. It used to write and cater. The writers would cater to the actors who were the stars of the studio. And then they’d repeatedly work with the same people and so you got this sort of magic and connection that was built, and obviously also could lead to huge rows and feuds and famously as well. Which is also, you know, a different kind of chemistry, I suppose. But Carrie, yeah, that’s special. That’s special when you can do that. You know, I’ve just finished a film with Benedict Cumberbatch and we’ve been, we’ve never worked together, but we’ve being around each other since we were in our early 20s. And that also felt special because You’ve seen one another grow up and you’ve seen one another and talked to one another when your careers were not going so well and you know, and then you kind of know the truth, you know. It’s good when you work with people who know the truth, they’re not buying into the myth or whatever. You know, the people who really know that they’re just not seeing you at the kind of, at the point of success. They’ve seen it all. Makes for deeper understanding, I think.

 

Louis Virtel It’s interesting that you’re here this week because I was just chatting with a friend about celebrities who you wouldn’t think know Mandarin, but do. And you are one of them. There’s people like Edward Norton and Mira Sorvino. And I’m just wondering, is this ever something you get to exercise alongside other actors? Like, do you ever have conversations with other professionals?

 

Rosamund Pike I did not know that about Edward Norton. I will have to find out. I’m actually working on a show where I think I will have to hopefully speak some Mandarin, so that would be exciting. But it’s my sons who are the real stars of Chinese speaking. And a lot of the conversation in my house and a lot the TV that goes on in my houses played is even things that everybody else is enjoying in English we’re watching in Mandarin, dubbed. which, you know… Sometimes for the main English speaker is frustrating, but it’s also interesting. You know, when I watch Paddington all in Chinese or something, it’s quite effective, I have to say.

 

Louis Virtel I would say I assume that adds a different sensibility to Paddington, which I would describe as one of the definitive English experiences.

 

Rosamund Pike Talking about marmalade sandwiches. Yeah, yeah

 

Ira Madison III I do want to ask you also, you’re actually starring in Inter Alia, the new play from Susie Miller, who wrote the fantastic play Prima Fachi starring Jodie Comer. Can you tell us a little bit about working on that and what the process has been like?

 

Rosamund Pike Well, it’s nerve-racking. I’m already having, you know, fever dreams about it, of anxiety. But I haven’t been on stage for 14 years, but I’m also very excited and ready for the challenge. We workshopped it in December, which is a great process where you can be, you know, quite a long way off starting to rehearse. You can start sort of chewing it over and playing out the themes and speaking the words. and trying to dip your toe in the water of a physical language for the play, but also see where it needs other things and where the character’s journey needs more amplification or whatever. So I’m actually just waiting for the new draft based on that workshop. And then I will start memorizing it after Easter. And then we start rehearsals on the 26th of May. and then we open in July, beginning of July. and it’ll be at the National Theater in London all through the summer. I’m spending a week next week in the Inns of Court and in the Old Bailey. I play a judge in this one, so I’ve got to really become acquainted with judges and how they work and the difference between their private selves and their selves in court. And it’s an invitation into a world that I would never normally have any access to. So that’s very exciting. So yes, my character is a judge. It’s Suzy Miller exploring the law again and the ways in which a career in the law can make you feel as if you have a very strong respect for the law and you’ve built your whole life on an understanding that you have an unshakable belief in the efficacy of the law and then when it hits you on a personal level, whether that same law feels lacking in any way when suddenly you’re implicated personally.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay. Okay, can’t wait for that. My last question for you is, again, of course, thinking back to Gone Girl, I Care a Lot, even actually a private war to a certain extent, you’ll just make choices that are like shocking or provocative. I’m wondering if you had a favorite moment on set where you made a choice acting wise that shocked the people either filming you or making the movie.

 

Rosamund Pike That’s funny you say that, thanks for saying that. I was thinking while I was doing the washing up the other night about one moment in Gone Girl where Amy is, she’s having to play up for the security cameras in Desi’s home because she knows that in the future after her plan has come to fruition to murder Desi that the security camera will be seized as evidence. So she makes sure that she’s put plenty of things on the security camers that when they’re replayed will. imply that she’s been trapped and been a prisoner. And I remember one time where we had this security camera out that I dipped my nightdress in the beetroot juice that was on the table and kind of ran to the window and sort of pounded, I knew I had to go to the window and that was the action that was expected was the running to the windows and sort of you know looking up at the camera and saying you Thank you. Let me out, let me out. But the beetroot juice and the kind of, this soiled night dress thing was something I added. And I think that, I had the feeling that that shocked a few people. at that moment. I mean, I think, you know, each scene in a movie can be a little stage show. So I think you have to, it’s part of the creative team and I always feel you owe it to the crew around you to keep it very alive because you’re asking them to stand holding a fan or a reflector board or something that will enhance your performance and you give a performance back that reads for them too, I think. that reads in the room and charges the atmosphere on set, I think. I believe that. Because you draw energy in from all these people and I think it’s your duty to give energy back. That’s my personal feeling.

 

Louis Virtel Well, that movie is charged as hell. So, mission accomplished. Yeah, it is. I just watched Neil Patrick Harris die again in that and I said, woof, I can’t believe I made it through that the first time.

 

Rosamund Pike Well, yeah, and David Fincher’s sort of military of precision with shooting a scene like that. On the day, having this set where two walls would fly out and the soiled bed would glide out on runners and the new bed with new thousand thread count sheets and pristine white would come in its place and we would walk a polythene road to a shower block where we’d be completely refreshed and then hair dried by. you know, four people who would then get you ready within half an hour to be back rolling for take two, having been covered in blood and suddenly back in perfect, you know how many dresses there were of those pink, or no, it was underwear, wasn’t it? How many, oh no, there was a dress, it started with a dress and then the underwear. And I remember David Fincher telling me that when I put my hand on Neil Patrick’s ass, that it should be like I just was holding my perfect bowling ball. You know, that one that’s going to get you the double, the double strike. You know some of David Fincher’s imagery just still kind of rings in my ears from day to day. I tried not to stick my finger in any holes.

 

Louis Virtel Right, not so much a bowling ball.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, thank you so much for being here with us, Rosamund.

 

Rosamund Pike Thank you. Thanks for the talk. Bye, guys.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you to Rosamund Pike for joining us. The Wheel of Time is now airing its third season on Prime Video. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III It’s been a minute since Louis and I checked in on our watch list, so we’re going to catch up on all the shows and movies everyone’s been talking about, from The White Lotus to The Residence and more. But before you get too excited, no girl, I do not want severance.

 

Louis Virtel I know every once in a while you just I accept that a blind spot will be occurring in my life and I did watch the first episode of severance however long ago that was but I’m sorry I I trust vibes and something about that vibe I had to walk the other way you know two roads diverge

 

Ira Madison III I do not want to watch an office. I’m sorry, I love the office itself, but I also was recently talking to a friend about sitcoms that I rewatched from 30 Rock to Arrested Development, et cetera. I have no desire to rewatch the office.

 

Louis Virtel Well, we’re also, in my opinion, still living in the office. Like half of the comedy people want is awkward silences and looks to camera, which tells them to laugh so they feel comfortable. Not my vibe, can’t do that. And I’m sorry I’ve said the word vibe 30 times now. But the residents, which is the new whodunit, Shondaland whodunnit takes place in the White House. As I mentioned, Kylie Minogue is a big part of it because she’s performing at the White house when this murder occurs. It stars Uzo Uduba as a detective. And it’s a comedy. I mean, it’s meant to be a somewhat broad detective series. And yet, my problem with this show is Uzo Uduba’s performance is too subdued and the supporting characters performances are too high octane. I wish the star of this series who plays the detective had the Ken Marino energy. And I wish the character he played had Uzo Aduba energy.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, I have been enjoying The Residence as well. Obviously, we love a hootin’ on it. Yeah. But this show is sort of swinging back and forth in tones to me in a really weird way. I get so invested in the mystery and then we keep cutting to the future where they’re doing a congressional hearing about what happened at the White House and I really don’t care. I will say that Eliza Coupe from Happy Endings is so funny. And I believe that’s Al Franken. Yes. Who’s also in it. But those scenes just feel like we’re recapping things that we just watched, which feels very Netflix making TV for people to watch while you’re doing the laundry.

 

Louis Virtel And also, by the way, these scenes, which they’re recapping the mystery, will also then tell you what happens in the next scene. A character at this congressional hearing will be like, well, of course, then that’s not what happened. And then you go to a scene where what they just described occurs. It’s very telling the audience what to think and what to look out for. I don’t know. It’s like, I guess I appreciate it at a certain level that we’re reaching out. to people who are on their phones the entire time they’re on TV. Like we want to keep the medium viable and I’m sure there’s just something realistic about playing with people who are playing to people with limited attention spans. That said, for everybody else watching, it makes it a slog and makes it kind of a preschool experience. But Eliza Coop, I’m happy to see her in a comic role again. For some reason, happy endings did not propel her to hundreds of memorable roles. I thought she was maybe the best actress on that show. She seems to be doing a lot of screaming at people in this hearing about what’s happening and I don’t know that the punchlines are landing.

 

Ira Madison III I also can’t get a handle on her character because at first she seemed almost like a Marjorie Taylor Greene character who’s going after conspiracy theories, and then she’s girl power I’m supporting Cordelia Cup so what’s happening here?

 

Louis Virtel Cordelia Cupp being the Uzo Aduba character at the center of this. I have to say also, because Uzo Aduba is so, I think she’s going for droll, but at the same time, like she plays it so straight that almost the punch lines don’t even hit. Like it needs like a comic beat there to really land. You kind of can’t help but wonder like, where was like a Melissa McCarthy or, you know who would have been great? Octavia Spencer. You know, cause she could take a boring line and put a spin on it where you’re laughing still.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Unfortunately, Cordelia Cup is sort of annoying as well. She’s supposed to be very heady and obviously the best at her job. And she just sort of comes off as not fun in a detective way. I’m not saying that she needs to be self-deprecating, but she dresses She’s a bit, like, sch-schlubby, like she’s Karumbo, and yet- She doesn’t have that Columbo self-deprecating humor. There’s moments where she makes jokes where she says, oh, there’s a lot of dudes here. So obviously she’s commenting on, you know, massaging the fact that there are other women in the White House who are investigating this case, whatever, but then, I don’t know, there’s moment in episode one or two where she says, well, of course, I’m Cordelia Cupp. Edit, just see if she’s. that cockiness that comes into the character doesn’t really fit this weird birdwatcher character we’re being introduced to. And I will also say, the birdwatching, I get it as a character beat and we wanna do some sort of metaphor with falcons and hunting or whatever. It’s like a different bird will probably be a metaphor for each episode as you’re figuring it out. But girl, you’re solving a fucking mystery and you’re walking around looking at birds. And also, are all these birds hanging out in the middle of the fucking night at the White House? No.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t think so, no. They wanted to give her a quirk a la Sherlock Holmes, how he has his violin or his pipe or whatever. But you’re right. It’s not like comedically that compelling. Now, speaking of whodunits, we have to move over to the White Lotus. I am now in a very mixed mind space about this show. One, I do appreciate, and I do mean appreciate, how little is happening on this show, I think it is torturing the home viewer and I think that is funny. This last episode was episode six, and you fully could have hit delete. I mean, what happened in this episode besides them identifying that the one brother jerked off the other brother during their weird three-way? I mean literally for six episodes on this show, people have just been asking Jason Isaacs, are you okay? And by the way, he’s sweating and looking near death. So the answer is probably no, and I would love somebody to identify that.

 

Ira Madison III I am sort of exhausted with The White Lotus at this point. I think that this show for me is not hitting in the way that it used to in the first two seasons. I think my friend, Brendan Holder, who wrote an essay about it for his website, Lucy, just sort of discussed how the series now feels how a lot of TV feels and that it’s creating these moments which are meant to be memes online and each week we always get a new article or media hit where you won’t believe that insane scene in the White Lotus. And you know what no one is ever saying? I can’t believe that great episode of the White Lotuses. Remember when we used to say Mad Men episodes? The entire episode was fantastic. The writing was good, there was a theme to it. It felt like you were going from point A. to point Z in each episode. And I feel like obviously the White Lotus is a soap. And so you’re jumping into different stories each episode and they’re all supposed to be building to some sort of tension, but it really just feels listless this season. And there is one crazy scene and then. Nothing else. Even the jerking off incest scene, which I guess worked because it’s the most watched episode of the White Lotus ever. But even that scene was sort of just a holdover from the previous scene where we sort of, the previous episode where we saw that they were having this threesome together and we just see the flashes of the jerkin’ off and. I don’t know, it just feels very salacious in a way to get people talking about it, but I also just don’t care about these characters. I don’ care about the brothers, I don really care about this sister, I don care about Jason Isaacs, who’s been holding this gun for three fucking episodes. It’s like I’m watching Passions at this point, because nothing has changed.

 

Louis Virtel It literally is like that. It’s like a soap and that you get like one-ninth of a needle move every episode. I also want to say, unlike previous seasons of the White Lotus, obviously the stars on this, I’m glad to see them all involved. I can’t say that there is still a standout performance. It feels like none of what’s happening here feels like Emmy winning to me. And in the previous seasons, five or six different people would be given moments that were not just salacious, but interesting and gave them reasons to veal. parts of their character we wouldn’t have otherwise guessed. We have nothing that is up to the Megan Fahey level. We have something that is even up to, like, Simona Tabasco on last season was amazing, let alone Jennifer Coolidge. But like, for instance, Parker Posey keeps being memed on this show. Obviously, she is a legendary actress. I talk about Party Girl like it is the third Bible book. She is fabulous and legendary. Is she doing anything on this shows that literally Chelsea Handler couldn’t do?

 

Ira Madison III No, I think that Parker Posey is giving you a lot, there’s a lot of monologs and a lot of jokes about wealth and privilege that sort of are turned on their head at the end, but also Parker Pose seems like she wants to be an interesting character who’s stuck in a storyline that I don’t really care about. I would maybe like it more as she were losing her company or something, but. as it is she’s wandering around wondering where her lorazepam is and it just seems like it’s instagram memes at this point there is no standout performance for me this season and there’s also no sense of it being an ensemble i feel like the boat party where they were all just there for no reason just felt very thrown together and it didn’t intersect in an interesting way that the other two seasons did. Even Belinda sort of trying to figure out what’s going on with Tanya’s ex-husband. That seems so far removed from everything else that’s happening. And I feel like we know it’s all gonna converge with a shootout, but it’s sort of who cares? Also, I find it very hard to believe that that old man went back to a white lotus. Ha-

 

Louis Virtel It does seem a bit unusual for him, the brutalist killer of the season two. By the way, I think you just touched on something that actually has something in common with the residents. There’s a static-ness about the way that they’re filmed that makes it feel like it was filmed during COVID. And which is crazy because the other two White Lotus seasons probably were, and then this one isn’t. But like, you’re right, the ensembles aren’t mixing in a way, like the camera isn’t moving interestingly through. All of their worlds and connecting them and I feel like we got way more of that in previous seasons Also, we just got funnier characters in previous season. So the white lotus too. It’s just not funny Yeah, I missed the italian

 

Ira Madison III I miss the Italian girls. I also miss a, I mean, you know, Murray Bartlett and, um, our Italian diva who was running the hotel last season in scheming.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, Sabrina Impachiatore, yes, uh-huh.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, we’re missing that element of someone who works at the hotel too, who’s up to no good. I think that there’s nothing tying everything together.

 

Louis Virtel No. And I think, by the way, something that should tie it all together is cuntiness, which is what you’re describing from the last season. I want to bring up an old TV show I’m watching. Now, this is a keep it standard. Every once in a while this comes up. Sex and the City came up on Netflix. And as you know, when that show comes up, I hit one episode and suddenly I’m nine deep. So just be aware. Do you know what story storyline on that show I think counts as underrated and is, in fact, amazing? The burger storyline. Thanks for watching! When Cary dates Berger, played by Ron Livingston, and he is this writer who has good observations about other people, including her own friends. In fact, he introduces the he’s just not that into you, you know, iconic catchphrase to the show, which later became the Greg Barrett book or before anyway. And then he reveals himself to be this black hole, self loathing, insecure person. And Carrie kind of thinks she can reason with him and tell him he’s a good writer. but we know at home he is inaccessibly kind of a loser. It’s such a believable dating situation where you want to believe you’re with somebody who is as cool as like their observations and as their potential, but they only are this self-loathing person. Ron Livingston is amazing in this role. I just think everybody should rewatch The Burger, which is late season five into season six. So good. Before you get Petrovsky, who is, I can’t even say that fucking name. I’m still so mad at Mikhail Baryshnikov.

 

Ira Madison III I love the burger storyline. I think that it’s perfect writing. I think that’s really funny. And I also think that a series that sets up Carrie Bradshaw is this anti heroine, right? She everyone always rewatches the show and talks about how annoying she is. They talk about her relationship with big they talk about how mean she is to Aiden and you’re either on his side or on her side. But I think that what’s always fun about a series like that and I brought up Mad Men before, right, you know, when you see Don Draper as this anti-hero and then later in the series you get someone who can match wits with him. You sort of get someone who’s a little bit worse than him. I think it’s so fun to have Carrie be this sort of horrible, careless woman with people’s emotions throughout the series and especially after what she does to Aiden and you feel bad for him and you sort of hate her and you think that she’s selfish with her friends, etc. Then for her to have to deal with someone like Burger, it’s so delicious to watch. And it also just sort of reminds you, I guess now, you know, being in my 30s, living in New York, it just reminds you too that you can be in a self-involved moment or you can have like an annoying friend or annoying partner and there’s always gonna be someone who’s just slightly worse, who was then going to come in and ruin your life.

 

Louis Virtel Like the scene where they go to the book premiere and he drives them on their motorcycle and insists and then she’s like, I don’t want to. And then she is furious with him for driving fast. Just like the pure manic chaos of this relationship. What are you doing with him, Carrie? And yet you can tell she’s trying to sympathize with him. It’s a very humanizing relationship for Carrie too. It is interesting when people call her annoying, I really think what the show ultimately needed is just one person to respond to one pun that she makes with, Carrie shut up. one time. Then we could have moved on.

 

Ira Madison III I also think the most humanizing moment, that two of the most humanizing moments in that burger relationship are one, cause I feel like I just went through this sort of with a breakup too, you know, we’ve all had a breakup where, you want it in the relationship and then you don’t, and then slide back into it, et cetera. The moment where they get back together and you think it’s fine, and then she wakes up and sees the post-it, it’s that we’ve, all have that moment. You sort of want his side too, where it’s. You think you can get back into the relationship and then you realize, oh no, I actually can’t do this.

 

Louis Virtel No, right. And also it’s like, I mean, like what a fool you were. You know, it’s just like, you thought everything was going away now and just like whatever the 10 minutes you spent apart were enough quote unquote reflection before you can go back in to just make everything normal. It was just they were both lying to themselves.

 

Ira Madison III And then the most humanizing moment, maybe in the series, is after the breakup when she runs into his friends.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. And it’s just utterly painful. I just also want to say the best part of the post to note is that he ends it with don’t hate me. Like the most pathetic way to end it. Couldn’t even own that he was hateable in the moment.

 

Ira Madison III I have a refrigerator magnet of that poster, of that Post-It note in my kitchen, and people love it when they see it. It’s just so, one of the most iconic things of that series.

 

Louis Virtel No, yeah. And also the one scene where Charlotte is on a bad date and then she runs in them, she will save me. And then she kills that date and then joins them and it’s even worse. Also so good, so good.

 

Ira Madison III I guess what we’re saying is, stream sex in the city.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like White Lotus Plus, and it doesn’t feel like it was filmed during COVID, yes. All right, when we’re back.

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It, Louis.

 

Louis Virtel My keep it is to a festival that I will definitely go to and have always gone to, but they just revealed their lineup of performers this year and I had to gulp, shall we say. It’s to the WeHo Pride Out Loud Festival, whose headliners are Lizzo, Lil Nas X and Kim Patras. Now, Lil Naz X, I’ve never seen Lil NasX live and number one, he is a supermodel and two, the songs are good. I’m excited for that. Kim Petras, unfortunately, I’m in my late 30s, and I’ve lived in LA this entire time, which means that once upon a time in about 2018, I could not go to a gay club without seeing Kim Petra live. I’m telling you, I’ve seen her more times in the past 10 years that I’ve see my own mom. So just know that I have seen all of this performed. I’ll be happy to see her again. But Lizzo is the headliner of this. It’s just not hitting right now. I think Lizzo does have good songs. I actually think about Damn Time, which was a big triumph at the Grammys and a big hit for her, is fabulous. I love the disco beat of it. I love that kind of, almost felt like Daft Punk had something to do with that song, even though they didn’t. But I still feel like it’s too early for her to come back from whatever the hell happened to her. And a bit condescending to be like, oh, well the gays will be into it. And headline this festival with, I don’t know how many songs of hers I even like anymore. And ultimately, I think a problem with Lizzo is, when your music is that much about self-empowerment, I think that means your primary demographic is middle schoolers, and I can’t really rock with that.

 

Ira Madison III Well, if you ask Lizzo, her demographic is, you know, empowerment for black women, because she said, she’s been going on a little bit of a rant lately, because I guess people aren’t supporting her comeback and aren’t supported her music, and aren’ supporting, I guess, this rock vibe of hers. She’s always, you now, black people invented rock and roll is the mantra that she has in that song with Cardi B. rumors which is a great Cardi verse by the way yeah and the rest of the song is not that great but she tweeted something this ranch he’s been on for quite a bit Aretha and Whitney got backlash for being too pop and they kept going and so will I okay

 

Louis Virtel defensive vibe I’m getting from ultimately and like they’re trying to take my fame away from me, which fair, but at the same time, nothing I really want to listen to.

 

Ira Madison III And also the to pop narrative with Whitney, we’ve revisited before, obviously, black audiences accused her of being to pop and Aretha had to famously go a little bit pop in order to survive on the charts, during a very racist time in music. But I don’t think that Lizzo has released a How Will I Know? No. Or I Wanna Dance With Somebody.

 

Louis Virtel Or even a Who’s Zooming Who, or a Freeway of Love, or whatever Aretha was doing in the 80s that was…

 

Ira Madison III Very pop. She’s released a couple good songs that I love, but they are nowhere at that level.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, the goal of putting yourself in the same breath is that, I mean like she’s a successful artist and cool. Like I think the flute thing is cool. She’s original. I don’t feel like, I actually had to give credit to Stradio Lab for coining the term Lizzo’s Pass. Do you know what this is? No. Girl, it is so funny. So it’s every pop star when they get kind of popular has to go through Lizzo Pass where they have to decide whether they’re going to remain. Pitchfork oriented or Target and Chapel Rowan right now is at that juncture where she has to decide if she’s going to stay cool or, you know, do the Coles back to school music. And Lizzo is the definitive example, I guess, of, you know, actually, to me, the definitive example is Maroon 5, who at one point were kind of VH1-y. you know, they would be like matchbox 20 brethren basically. And then unfortunately they went to the doctor and the prognosis was that they had moves like Jagger and they followed that for the rest of their careers.

 

Ira Madison III Well listen, they came on that bitch mad as hell.

 

Louis Virtel I want to be clear, if I’m a recording artist and you put moves like Jagger on my table, I’m singing it. I think that song is it.

 

Ira Madison III You know, Lizzo’s also playing rock and roll pioneer sister Rosetta Tharp in a new bio page. Is she really? Yes. What? And, girl, did we not see her in Hustlers?

 

Louis Virtel Right, I was going to say I remember her in Hustlers, but the shining performance from a pop star in that movie was definitely Cardi B.

 

Ira Madison III It was Garty. Now I do have a little out loud tea to tell you, which is so funny, because Tommy Genesis is playing the festival. Tommy must have gotten the early version of who was going to be performing at out loud because Tommy posted and then quickly deleted a flyer, which had Jennifer Lopez and Lizzo’s. But, an Ellie Golding in-

 

Louis Virtel and Kim Petras’s. Would love to see both of them. Didn’t Ellie Golding just do amazing at Coachella? Yeah. Jennifer Lopez is such a great live show. We both saw her in Vegas. She was fabulous.

 

Ira Madison III but I guess she’s doing World Pride and decided she didn’t want to do WeHo. And I guess both of those ladies pulled out. And when you think of two women who were sitting around in LA probably at Gelson’s shopping and their phones were on Lizzo and Kim Petras.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s what happened. They were at Gelson’s and got the text. Ira, what is your keep up?

 

Ira Madison III My key fit, unfortunately, goes to my sister Slater. St. Louis born and raised, Slater? Yes. I love Slater, obviously she’s been on the podcast, I’m friends with her. I think her music is great. Now what happened recently is she, I don’t know if you know the beef that she used to have with Azalea Banks. Who hasn’t?

 

Louis Virtel You’re a human being with a heart. Get ready.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, in 2019 they were supposed to perform a song together and we’re working together and at this point Azealia started criticizing Charlie XCX and the sort of collaboration fell apart and they hadn’t really talked since. And I remember also, by the way, this is just a side note to this, Iggy Azealiah locked Slater at this time because She did not like Slater working with the op, Azalea Banks, because if you recall, Azaleah coined the name Igloo Azaleia. Correct, yes.

 

Louis Virtel This is the Noel Coward of our times.

 

Ira Madison III Now, Azalea lately has been on the tip of becoming just basically a full-time music critic.

 

Louis Virtel Right, no, she works for Blender magazine in 1998. Yeah, and honestly.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I think it’s fantastic. I honestly really love all of her music takes and I feel like, girl, if you’re not going to hop into the studio, just release a blog. Where’s the sub stack?

 

Louis Virtel Right. I’m surprised she doesn’t podcast, even though she did call it the brokest form of media, as you know.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, and a DM to me. And I still don’t remember making fun of her on the podcast, because I love her. But anyway, she started talking about how much she enjoys Slater’s music again, and saying that she’s great, she should do the Britney thing. And she was always bringing it up in contrast to Bratt, saying that, she didn’t really enjoy Bratt and she hated Bratt. And she liked Mayhem a lot more, Which I actually agree with. To be honest, I think I like the Bratt remix.

 

Louis Virtel I think Brat has grown on me and the remix album has grown on me, whereas Mayhem is drifting a little for me. So anyway.

 

Ira Madison III Well, they started talking about how they were going to collab again. And so she said, she was complimenting Slater’s music and Slater quote tweeted it with, can I get you on a song? And Azalea Banks said, sure sis. And then Slater was sending her a song so that they could collab together again. Now the internet correctly predicted and I could have correctly predicted this was going to fall apart in five seconds. Right. So What do you think happened after Azura dropped the song? I-

 

Louis Virtel I assume she hated it and then tweeted I hate the song.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t like the new sound, sis. It’s like Walmart version of Eastern block strands. The gays won’t like it. Very bootleg YR2. Do the Britney thing. You’re excellent at it. Realizing now that Charles’ intention wasn’t to sabotage me. She calls Charlie XCX Charles. It was to sabotaged you and keep you from becoming bigger competition for her, which you would have been had you did what you said you were gonna do. She played you out of your spot by gossiping about me to you, and then left you off brat. Your music is still better than brat. I’d scrap the dollar store brook candy antics and get a nose job and eat these white girls up if I were you. You might fuck around and get cast in the Britney biopic, but I didn’t like those two songs and switching your sound is exactly what Charlie wants you to do. Get a pretty Euro-looking nose job done and show these hoes how to do it. Best of luck.

 

Louis Virtel I love how she sounds like a record producer in the 70s, just like, baby, you gotta do something with your nose. You need a new last name. Her name is like Johnny Viva and she wears sunglasses.

 

Ira Madison III I feel so bad for my sis, but I’m like, we saw this coming.

 

Louis Virtel No, you know famously on the show, I call her Rumpelstiltskin. She does one good thing, you have, 10 minutes later, look out, here comes the witch’s curse, here comes The Monkey’s paw.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, um, I will say though, I like the Britney sound for a Slater though. She does rock.

 

Louis Virtel I saw her perform in Palm Springs. Is that song called I Love Hollywood? Great music. And also normal-ish person. I ran into her at a party and just talked to her for 20 minutes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, she likes talking about fucking furniture. She’s just cool. She does not want to go the Chaperone route, okay? She does want to be unable to shop at Target. Right, which is I guess the theme of this episode. Speaking of Palm Springs, by the way, Tate McCray is performing in Palm Springs during Palm Springs Pride. Help me God. So you should go and check.

 

Louis Virtel I will, you know, I’ll be there. Who knows if I’ll upright looking, picking my burial plot, cause where the fuck else am I going to end up on this earth? Okay. That’s our episode. Hope you enjoyed everything we talked about, which was, you deeply immense. And also thank you to the unbelievable Rosamund Pike for being here. What a brilliant interviewee in addition to being a brilliant actress.

 

Ira Madison III And we will see you next week, or rather, I will see you next because Louis is off next week and I will be joined once again by the ever funny.

 

Louis Virtel I’m actually insulted by how funny he is, and I hope to still have a job when I get back. Thank you.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m sure we’ll be throwing around Louis’s favorite word next week. With just two black people on air. Eve’s by you. Right.

 

Louis Virtel I’ll see you next time.

 

Ira Madison III Don’t forget to follow Cricut Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And, if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Louis Virtel Keep It is a Crooked Media Production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Ira Madison III, Louis Vertel, and Kendra James.

 

Ira Madison III Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landis for production support.

 

Louis Virtel Our Head of Production is Matt DeGroot, and Madeline Harringer is our Head of Programming. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

 

Ira Madison III And as always, keep it as filmed in front of a live studio audience.