Nish and Coco’s predictions for 2024, plus would you kiss a Tory? | Crooked Media
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January 04, 2024
Pod Save the UK
Nish and Coco’s predictions for 2024, plus would you kiss a Tory?

In This Episode

Comedians Andy Zaltzman and Catherine Bohart return to help Nish and Coco try to predict what politics has in store for us in 2024. 


There’s much debate about the possible date of the next general election…with arguments made for both November 5th and December 25th! The panel also considers whether the electorate will warm to Keir Starmer. Plus there’s also the prospect of another Trump presidency to terrify us all.


Andy and Catherine also help Nish and Coco field listeners’ questions, with discussions ranging from whether our electoral system is fit for purpose, to who’d win in a fight between Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. But the key question is: would anyone kiss a Tory?


Pod Save the UK is a Reduced Listening production for Crooked Media.


Contact us via email: 

WhatsApp: 07514 644 572 (UK) or + 44 7514 644 572








Andy Zaltzman, presenter of BBC Radio 4’s The News Quiz, and The Bugle podcast

Catherine Bohart, comedian and co-presenter of Trusty Hogs podcast


Useful links:






Coco Khan Hi, this is Pod Save the UK.


Nish Kumar I’m Nish Kumar.


Coco Khan And I’m Coco Khan.


Nish Kumar Welcome to part two of our festive special. Looking ahead to 2024. And if this year is anything like last year, that’s going to be horrifying.


Coco Khan We’re joined by comedians Catherine Bohart and Andy Zaltzman, who’ll be looking ahead to the big moments of the next 12 months. We’ll be trying to make some predictions. And we will be holding meetings.


Nish Kumar Because you can’t just make it an accurate prediction and get away with it unless, of course, you’re a British newspaper columnist, in which case, say anything you like yet paper life. Happy New Year and welcome to the first show of 2024, which confusingly we’re recording in 2023 because we are going to get our money’s worth out of our special guests and results. And Catherine Bogart, if you haven’t heard them, help us make sense of the bonfire that was British politics in 2023. Please do give our last episode to listen. We had a lot of fun making it.


Coco Khan So let’s re-introduce a fabulous panel properly. Catherine Bohart is an actor, writer and comedian who you’ll probably recognize from her appearances on shows like Mock the Week and Live at the Apollo. She also co presents the podcast Trusty Hogs, and she’ll be touring her stand up show again with feelings for March next year.


Nish Kumar Andrew Andy Zoltan is a comedian, an uber cricket nerd. He’s the chair of Radio Four’s The News Quiz and also hosts the satirical podcast, The Vehicle, which frequently features me. He will also be out on the road for March next year with his bugle live shows. Nice to see you both. Thank you for continuing to be with us here.


Andy Zaltzman Oh, thanks. It’s been great. We’ve been hanging out for the last five or six days and.


Nish Kumar Also I haven’t moved, so things are really starting to smell down.


Catherine Bohart Oh god. Why do I have,


Andy Zaltzman I’ve been described as new but cricket fan, by the way, Nisha, just make it sound like you can just you book me through an app.


Coco Khan When on demand cricket.


Nish Kumar Yeah, I know, but that is sort of our treat. You take what the cricket start up do takes quite a while to ask for the statistical backgrounds of various various players careers.


Catherine Bohart May I refer you to the episode we just made where you talk about cricket an inordinate amount. He only speaks in what is the referee? COMMENTATOR Go on.


Nish Kumar For listeners from outside the UK, if I may quote from my own standup material, cricket is the result of baseball having unprotected sex with a library.


Catherine Bohart It so is. God, it’s boring.


Nish Kumar Catherine, What is the one thing you would love to happen to you in 2024?


Catherine Bohart I just moved in with my girlfriend and her friends are our friends. Yeah. Oh, I wrote, blaming her. It would be rude to say to me, Wait, I keep calling my car, my panic room, and she’s like, Don’t say that. Oh, gosh, what would I boring? I would love to see this government gone. Sorry, but it tells me like they’re happening to me. That’s why it’s in my my brain. It’s like, oh my God, how is this deal? Also, I would love to think that there are probably people who’ve been voting their entire voting life has been losing.


Nish Kumar Yeah.


Catherine Bohart That’s been going. Oh,.


Coco Khan That’s me. That’s me.


Catherine Bohart Really?


Coco Khan Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Coco Khan The only one I’ve only one I’ve won personally, me was City Khan’s mayoral election.


Catherine Bohart Good Lord it’s just.


Coco Khan I was hungover for like four days after that.


Catherine Bohart Yeah. I just want the kids to have a good time.


Nish Kumar I voted in 2005, so I did vote for the winning side in my first election, but since then it has been downhill.


Coco Khan Downhill baby.


Nish Kumar Slow. Descent Boss Siddiq.


Catherine Bohart I got here in 2012 and it’s been Whoa. Yikes. Rough.


Coco Khan Do you remember winning and winning?


Andy Zaltzman Well, no, no, not in anything that I’ve achieved myself.


Nish Kumar But at least I would back the right horse a couple of times.


Andy Zaltzman Yeah. I came second in the silver medal winning championships club, though, so that counts as a win.


Nish Kumar What would you love to happen to you in 2020? To me.


Andy Zaltzman Awesomely. Yeah. Well, I’m going to turn 50 in 2024 and I’d be.


Nish Kumar You’re the big five-oh.


Andy Zaltzman It is, Yes. I’m not quite like that. Not to happen. Not, not in terms of me dying before. I just think I don’t think I should be given another year in my forties. I think I’d like to win Wimbledon, but I mean it’s going to set the bar for those.


Nish Kumar Two, those two things.


Andy Zaltzman So coinside.


Catherine Bohart Do they have an over 50 amateur competition?


Andy Zaltzman No, not yet.


Catherine Bohart Not yet.


Andy Zaltzman No, not yet. So yeah, but I’d just I’d like to learn to levitate and just let float around. I think that would be like a fun way to get through the year. Okay.


Coco Khan So we’ll obviously you’ll be David Blaine.


Andy Zaltzman No, I’m not saying I’ll achieve it. I’m just saying it’d be quite nice. People are predicting that’s going to happen.


Catherine Bohart Coco, I have just remembered one thing I’d actually quite like. I would quite like to be the first lesbian couple to have an accidental baby. I mean, I would just love if we could be.


Nish Kumar Just like some actual tying stuff just floating around and.


Catherine Bohart Slipping on a turkey baster. I just mean, like, I like all the trying to work and there’s not because how do we know how how we’re supposed to do it or theft? I say, Well, you be.


Nish Kumar Just like that. Everyone’s like, How did that happen?


Catherine Bohart Yeah. And it’s like we just really committed to it when we know we can. Yeah, we put it on our vision boards.


Coco Khan We may have some of our wishes come true because under British law, if an election hasn’t been called by the fifth anniversary of the last one, parliament is automatically dissolved and an election is held 25 working days later. The fifth anniversary of our last election is the 17th of December 2024, meaning the latest possible election date is the 28th of January 2025. Can you hang on? Are you going to have to survive for this next?


Nish Kumar So maybe is the country going to be able to survive for that long?


Andy Zaltzman So basically, technically, if they do delayed until January, I think 2024 would just be extended a month.


Coco Khan They’ll go to the Supreme Court and they’ll get some ruling about what a year is.


Catherine Bohart Or that 2025 is unsafe. I usually won’t be moving into it.


Nish Kumar Listen, I genuinely get to open a sweepstakes on this. I will put a tether in at the closest get support. I personally am going to go for October the 17th because that’s just before it starts to get really dark. So when he loses Sunak can jet off to California and spend Christmas in the Santa monica penthouse opens. Anybody else got any specific date suggestions?


Catherine Bohart I’m wondering when Silicon Valley companies do their most hiring. I’m not entirely sure. And I’m going to go December 16th. I think we are assuming like a rational person would call it before then. I think we’re assuming he’s a rational person. A rational person would never have left California and dinner parties with people who are richer than God to run to run a cabinet, a fuckwit who could only agree on like what a party agreed on one thing in the last however many years and was that they prefer Liz Truss to you. Yeah. Like that is not a reasonable man. So the latest possible days where I’m putting my money.


Andy Zaltzman Cabinet of fuck which is my favorite Tom Wolfe novel, I’ve got a few dates, I think quite likely 25th of December.


Coco Khan Yeah.


Andy Zaltzman I think.


Nish Kumar The election will be on.


Andy Zaltzman The 25th of December. I think they are going to just the only the only way that they think they can win is to ruin Christmas.


Coco Khan On a serious note that was being touted, not the 2015 December.


Andy Zaltzman It’s going to be the 25th Coast.


Coco Khan But a December election, knowing full well that people will be disengaged. I mean, that has been speculated in the press. Yeah.


Catherine Bohart And also that presumably older Tories don’t have families. They want to come around so they can go to the polling booth.


Andy Zaltzman Also, you know, the economy will get boosted. In the previous ten days. The 14th of February, which is Wednesday. But you know, to to try to get people to vote, to feel the love for democracy. I’m not sure we’ve ever had a Valentine’s Day election. I’m I don’t know. I’m not a rocket scientist 1st of August because it’s during the Olympics and that that’s I think a snap Olympic I’ve course I’ve suggested this many times that it is a snap Olympics is what this country comes 31st of October. Halloween just seems appropriate or cheap. The band’s Tuesday Tuesday, the 5th of November, which is the day of the US presidential election. I think we should double up.


Coco Khan Also bum fire night, right?


Andy Zaltzman Isn’t that. Yeah.


Coco Khan You didn’t look like destroying Parliament then.


Nish Kumar He tried. He tried quite famously, didn’t.


Catherine Bohart You, guy? Yes, I. Yeah, but you, you’re so close. Just you.


Nish Kumar You skirted around the details about called guy but tried and failed to destroy Parliament. You’ve transmogrified that into a guy blew up all of it. Yeah.


Andy Zaltzman That’s the way media works.


Coco Khan Yes. I’m so sorry. Let’s talk about a man likely to be prime minister within the next 12 months, excluding some sort of weird disaster or act of God. It’s Sir Keir Starmer.


Nish Kumar Or is or is that the British electorate doesn’t do what seems to come naturally to just vote for the Conservatives?


Coco Khan Yeah, that is the defo, isn’t it? So what are our expectations from him? He’s obviously trying to keep a low profile. He just wants the Tories to implode. Fair play that is working. They are doing that. But as the polls traditionally tighten, Labor will need a 12% swing to win a majority. So if their 20 point lead narrows to 15 as we approach the election, he’s going to need to do more to inspire the voters. What would that look like for you guys?


Catherine Bohart I just really hope one of his New Year’s resolutions is like gain weight, but in his personality. But I feel like he won’t. I think the tricky thing about Starmer finally being I keep forgetting that is what comes next. Probably. Yeah. Him actually being PM was a he’ll go to stuff like NATO’s summits and we’ll have to be like yep that’s I just because I’m so used to now being like oh well he’s the one everybody else wanted and at least he’s not that other guy. But having to be like. Yep. That’s our guy. Just like it’s like, I don’t know if anybody else had like a very, unlike, noncompetitive dad at Sports Day, but my dad was like a runner, but he couldn’t be looked dry at sports, you know, like when the dads have to race. So it’s always I think, yeah, that’s my dad. Yeah, I don’t know. And it’s just so frustrating. I think it’ll be a very specific answer to your question.


Nish Kumar Of ID, since we’ve said the last couple of people that we’ve said, which is sort of. Talk market sale, the Microsoft Paperclip in human form. It feels like anything would sort of be an upgrade. Andy, what do you think Starmer’s got to do to capture the imagination of the British public? Well, I.


Andy Zaltzman Think you probably remain cautious. I don’t think people will particularly want to and which in some ways might be a good thing for for politics. I would hope as we get close to election, we’ll see. Yeah, a bit more political ambition and precision in a sort of vision of what he hopes his government will be able to achieve within the constraints that they will they will inherit. So I don’t think is going to be spectacular. It probably doesn’t need to be spectacular as he, you know, just stands there and say, look at these guys that should be here. You know.


Catherine Bohart I think if he just does the job he’s supposed to do, we might rally around him. Have you ever seen a you use of a terrible boyfriend? Get it? Like completely bland. No one. Yes. Like Dave’s the freakin best. This guy’s. I mean, like, it takes a while of years. We really like to stay if we have any interests or who cares if he’s not the guy before, it doesn’t matter.


Nish Kumar He didn’t start a kitchen fire at the last minute, but.


Catherine Bohart It is a lot to be. We might really rally.


Coco Khan I think for some, like Scooby Doo takes his mask off. It’s Clement Attlee. Surprise.


Catherine Bohart That would be amazing.


Andy Zaltzman But I think with Amy and with the power of the occult, we can basically. We can basically achieve that. I mean, because I don’t know who they’ve been consulting in recent years, but I think the Rwanda policy was essentially a science involving, I don’t know, Beelzebub himself. Powell You know, possibly know. POWELL And yes, Salvador Dali, essentially. Yeah. So why not?


Coco Khan So we also know there’s going to be an election in America. They will vote for their next president on November the fifth. I guess the two questions are, can anyone stop Trump from winning the nomination? And I mean, that’s the only question. Please. Number two, please, can someone stop Trump from winning the presidency?


Nish Kumar He’s facing so many different court cases. There’s election interference in Georgia. There’s civil fraud in New York and the classified documents case in Florida. But also there’s the hush money case in New York. And there’s the whole federal case about the, you know, the time on January the sixth when him and a bunch of Nazis tried to steal the whole government. It is absolutely astonishing. He is currently polling, I would say, alarmingly high. Is there anything that can stop him?


Andy Zaltzman Well, I think there possibly is. And if you think back to the previous two elections that he ran in, he lost the popular vote and by a massive margin last time. So, I mean, he inspired the biggest ever vote against a sitting president. Yeah. So you would he’s not done anything to win new supporters. Yeah, I think that’s fair to say. I mean, if he does win, it would basically look like the end of civilization. I think it might actually be a zombie apocalypse as previous generations rise from their graves and say, America, you have let yourselves down so badly. It’s hard to envisage a world in which him winning again is possible, but it does seem to be harrowingly possible. I mean, it is astonishing what America is doing to itself. Yeah.


Coco Khan Do you worry, Catherine?


Catherine Bohart Yeah. I mean, I’m worried. I think it’s more likely a case that he will. It will be Joe Biden who loses it for himself. But I also do think we’re in a situation where the one thing that could really stop either of them is it’s weird. The American politicians are so old that it feels like maybe death is the answer for either to end their campaign. But it’s weird to be in a situation where you could wake up and hear the news that both presidential candidates have died and be like natural causes.


Andy Zaltzman Well, they just started doing duels again.


Catherine Bohart They both got what they wanted.


Andy Zaltzman Like a musical.


Catherine Bohart They’re both like nostalgia for our youth. Let’s do it. I was wild.


Nish Kumar The only thing that could make this worse is a rapping Donald Trump.




Coco Khan Andy and Catherine are kindly sticking around for a few more minutes to help Nick and I go through the contents of the UK mailbag. Don’t worry, guys. Yes, there could be complex questions about our political system, but there are also messages like this one.


Clip Again, it’s Matt Lashinsky. I really like the show and I had a question and there’s been a bit of a trend in the past few years with famous people fighting each other and boxing matches. I think it started with some YouTube celebrities, but now there’s been chatter about Zuckerberg versus Musk. And we’ve also seen politicians going on reality TV shows with Matt Hancock and now Nigel Farage. So I think it’s only a matter of time before politics involved punching the shit out of each other live on TV. So my question is which two politicians would you like to see fight? I really appreciate your expertise on this. Yeah, thanks.


Nish Kumar Well, I guests first, Catherine, which two politicians would you like to see, but I also really love the use of the phrase I. I really appreciate your expertise. This is literally the only political conversation. We are qualified with any expertise.


Catherine Bohart I would say that every Tory combo I can think of would be like that fight scene from Bridget Jones. That said, I would probably cast Jacob Rees-Mogg and maybe Steve Baker. Yeah, I think that’s a that’s a that’s a fight I’d watch.


Nish Kumar Yeah, that’s that’s a fight for.


Catherine Bohart Chase around the ring.


Coco Khan Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Nish Kumar So who would you like to see fight.


Andy Zaltzman So what kind of fight we’re talking. We’re just talking like.


Nish Kumar I think you can set the parameters. I mean, the reference here is to the Mark Zuckerberg that I think would probably be like a sort of my UFC title.


Andy Zaltzman So we’re not talking cockfight. Well, no, we’re not talking. You know, Maximus Decimus. Meredith. Comedy’s in front of a fucking colosseum. I think that would be okay. I mean, that could work. Trump, Biden, Russell could be. I mean, it would be more civilized than any debate that they they could just be hacking at each other with swords, that it would be more edifying for America. So I would quite like to see that because I think that would be a massive improvement on what we’re actually actually going to see from a British politics point of view. I think it’s time that King Charles started using his hardware. We saw him, you know, with all those wireless sticks out and sabers, got the built in helmet.


Nish Kumar The guy’s packing heat, no doubt about.


Andy Zaltzman The crown. I mean, doesn’t look like it’s particularly efficient form of headgear, but it’s got a forcefield around that protects the monarchy as the monarchs. That’s why you never see monarchs with a black eye. So. So I’d like to see I want to see Charles take on the entire cabinet with his magic swords as magic’s towards the roles of fucking destiny or whatever it was, or our unstoppable justice, the sledgehammer, Everlasting vengeance.


Nish Kumar Man, that’s those are all nicknames that you have for your penis.


Andy Zaltzman Andrew Nix That was all secret. What goes on or stays on? So yeah, actually King Charles fully tooled up with all the royal accouterments. Check in on the whole cabinet in a fight for the future of British politics. If he wins, we go back to an absolute monarchy. If not, we start with the.


Coco Khan Moment we like that scene in Kill Bill, where Uma Thurman’s character takes on like 60 people. I’m into it.


Nish Kumar Who would you like to see?


Coco Khan Like, I mean, I don’t have anything quite as inventive as these two, but I would I would be interested in maybe seeing the two female prime ministers duke it out. Theresa may versus Liz Truss.


Nish Kumar You were raising the pretty big one.


Catherine Bohart Yeah.


Nish Kumar Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess.


Coco Khan Okay.


Nish Kumar Maybe you’d like to see the two living female.


Catherine Bohart Probably reckon they could take her right now.


Andy Zaltzman I’m not. I am not sure about that.


Catherine Bohart Yeah. As soon as I said that I didn’t think it was true.


Coco Khan I just think that, you know, both of them look like I’m just interested to see the damage that Theresa may has pointed to can do. Pointed shoes. Yeah. Famously wore those. And I do feel that Liz Truss, she was worth a placebo. I think that is everybody knows in a street fight you don’t wear a tie, you don’t wear a thing around the neck. I just think it would be a very fashionable role and I’m interested in that.


Nish Kumar I go Johnson versus Farage. I just I want to see one of them go down and I think the other is the only one who could take the other down. Like they both seem like it feels like this is what happens when an unstoppable force of racism meets an immovable object of also racism.


Coco Khan Yeah, we’re going to finish with a lucky dip of UK listener questions.


Nish Kumar Oh, we actually have a news hat.


Nish Kumar Our producer, Musty, has brought in a news hat. A phrase coined by Coco Kahn for reasons that we have no idea about. So I’m just going to go into the hat and pull out a random listener question that’s sort a piece of paper. I mean, this is just feel like this is how a debates should be conducted. Matthew Black SCAD asks. It annoys me when people criticize MP’s based on their voting records when in reality saying this to voted for X bill I hate is basically saying this guy is a member of her or his political party, which doesn’t really tell you about exactly how much of a twat they are. This is what it means to have political parties is what we’re all voting for when we put our X against a candidate who we’ve never heard of, but who has the right color Rosette Velcroed to the system that governs Westminster. Maybe you might question whether things would be better if individual politicians could speak their mind a bit more instead of marching in step with their parties like zombies. What do you think?


Andy Zaltzman Yeah, I do agree with that. I think we need more independent MPs generally, whatever form our second chamber takes. There needs to be scope for a lot of independence. I think that brings sort of expertise and a bit of bit of balance. And when you say what we’re voting for because of the nature of our first past the post system, it’s obvious what we’re voting for is quite often what we’re voting against. Yeah, And also it’s to interpret what someone actually means when they vote. Bearing in mind, you know, if you live in a state, if you might be a passionate Green Party supporters, obviously no point voting Green in a general election unless you live in Brighton. So so first of all, you can’t do that. Then you might want a Labor government, but in order to do that, you’ve got to vote Liberal Democrat to stop the Conservatives from. So there’s all that. This subtext of votes is impossible to say. So until we have a system which can interpret from how angrily the X is written in the box that people that first met.


Catherine Bohart Did you break the pencil or not?


Andy Zaltzman Then clearly, proportional representation is not a panacea. It doesn’t. It doesn’t fix all the problems. But I think it would allow an element of compromise in our politics, which appears to have otherwise gone the way of the dodo.


Nish Kumar Yeah.


Catherine Bohart I would say absolutely. I’ll never forget the first time that I saw Britain go into absolute collapse because they might have a hung parliament. I have to cooperate. I have to grow up. Essentially, I was like, what has got genuinely adults being like, Well, look, let’s do this. Yeah, if you don’t want like that, it’s like, Oh, wild. Shall I do it?


Nish Kumar Yeah. Also, we ended up with a coalition with two guys who were basically the same man.


Catherine Bohart And they just decided from the outset who would be really bizarre. Oh, Laura asks, Would you ever or have you ever. Who would you ever or have you ever kissed a Tory?


Coco Khan No.


Nish Kumar Not to my knowledge.


Coco Khan Not knowingly.


Nish Kumar Not knowingly, yes. But also, I mean, if I’d go back through the list, it’s not going to take long. You give me 5 minutes to nip outside and make a couple of calls.


Andy Zaltzman Grammatically kissed a Tory.


Catherine Bohart Wait a second. But the question I think that’s more interesting, especially for you, if you don’t mind, is would you ever.


Nish Kumar Would I ever a kiss a Tory? But no, I. I think that if I, I think there would be serious problems within my long term relationship if I kissed anybody else. But I think it’s I think I’ve got to speak out of turn here. We’ve had to clarify how she feels about this. I think she would be furious if I cheated on her with anyone, but I think she would be doubly furious if it was a Tory.


Catherine Bohart Yeah. Yeah. Mine too. 100%. 100%.


Andy Zaltzman I think I would. I would kiss a Tory in certain circumstances. If, for example, I’ve been told that if I kiss that Tory, they would turn back into a frog. I might, I might prefer to do that. Yeah, but I’m in a long, long term with my wife since, since, since the Tories were in power in the 1990s actually. But I think it depends how much they like cricket as well.


Coco Khan I probably would imagine that cricket in conservative is a hight index.


Andy Zaltzman But I don’t want to talk about that. An uncomfortable for me.


Coco Khan Okay, so we’ve got a question here from Charlie Taylor. They ask With the year coming to an end in the countdown to what I personally hope is the Tories electoral death sentence sometime next year, I wanted to ask you, what do you think is the worst thing the Tories have done in their decade plus tenure?


Nish Kumar I mean, I think it’s difficult to evaluate in terms of worst, but for me it all comes back to the program of austerity because the central message that the financial crisis was the result of excess government spending is was simply a mistruth. Like it was a simple it was a straightforward lie. And it’s the kind of original sin of the last 13 years of governing because it creates. Huge gaps in government funding. It sets problems in the NHS that then come back to haunt us as soon as the COVID pandemic starts. Even the sort of decimation of large parts of the country and then the sort of rhetorical blaming of the European Union kind of lays the foundations for some of the elements of the Brexit vote. I mean, for me, whilst I don’t think it’s necessarily the worse thing that they’ve done specifically, it’s the kind of core original sin of the last 30 years of governments.


Coco Khan I feel like there’s too much to choose from for a start, but I’m going to pick something a bit more obscure, which is the Conservatives going for the National Trust, because I felt like that was a I mean, I know it’s been a kind of a progress from the patrician Tory to this kind of like neo liberal. Yeah. Money trumps everything state, but it’s like, I know that’s been happening for a long time, but I feel like sometimes they keep it under wraps and they try and present themselves as the party of, you know, our history, our heritage of preserving the best things about Britain, but actually that they’re not. And so I think that was like a I wouldn’t say that was the worst thing they did, but I thought it was an interesting thing they did when they started going for like historic country outfits for being too woke.


Catherine Bohart Yeah. I just think there’s been a shift away from the notion of politics as service to one of self-aggrandizement. And I think for me I’m going to pick a more nebulous concept and perhaps it’s going to sound naive, but I think the utter eagerness to dehumanize anybody who’s other than them, which is a lot of people, you see it when they talk about people as boats instead of actual people. You hear it when they I mean, when the entire process during COVID, when they managed to lie about like celebratory behavior in the midst of tragedy, I just think there’s a complete absolute repulsion of the notion of empathy or compassion. And I would it would be hard for me to ever forget.


Coco Khan Something about empathy. May is it doesn’t pay.


Catherine Bohart It doesn’t. But I tell you, what it does is this self serving nature of that I think has been pervasive. As I say, I think we are an angrier, sadder, more furious place to live. And even when I am too, which is like it permeates that sort of frustration. And you, when everybody above you seeks to serve themselves, you almost end up giving in to that and doing the same. And it makes me so sad.


Andy Zaltzman Andrew Well, that was very eloquently put, Yeah. I mean that’s a really good way of looking at it, I think. I mean, and, and sort of picking up what this was saying, you know, if I have to focus on Brexit and, you know, take the it was a almost a kind of symptom and result of those austerity policies. When I think about the sort of future that my kids are inheriting from this generation of politics, and I think Brexit is still sort of the defining aspect of that and for them to sort of grow up without the the freedoms and opportunities that my generation and my parents generation had is really saddening. And yeah, and aside from that, the nature of the society that you were talking about, Catherine as well. So looking ahead to the future, I think the legacy of these 13 years of Conservative government is really, really depressing. And I think it’s, yeah, a really hard time to be a young person to have, you know, the conversation about politics conducted in in that harsh, aggressive, sort of dehumanizing way. Plus the fact that whether it’s environmentally or in terms of the jobs you might have or the freedoms you have being sort of constricted by that. So I think that it’s not it’s not great legacy for 13 years of government to have left behind.


Coco Khan I guess, you know, the idea that, you know, they’ve created a selfish country that is bad vibes, I think we can all agree that has happened. I do wonder if is it then that it’s done that or is this been a long a long creation of a selfish nation?


Catherine Bohart I think actually, I actually think we were a lot of Britain were trying to do the opposite. Like if you think about how most people in the world, not just in this country, behaved during COVID, most people pushed the greater good above themselves. Most people did that enthusiastically, willingly, carefully, considerably. Most people said, I am part of my community and I care about them regardless of the consequences for me. And even in that context, where everybody sort of surrendered to the betterment of all this, government managed to be so cynical about that behavior that they came out, made us come out feeling like we somehow are more against one another than we ever have been before. I hate that.


Nish Kumar But that and that is sort of probably a hopeful note for us to end on in terms of if you lose your faith in politicians, you shouldn’t lose your faith in people. Yeah, I mean, shouldn’t lose our faith in people’s ability to transform politics as we go into an election year. You know, it is important to remember that we do have agency. We have agency in who we vote for, but then we also have agency and what we pressure them to do once they’re in office. And that’s probably going to be the key thing that keeps me hopeful and optimistic in 2024. Thank you so much to everyone who’s got in touch with the show this year. It’s been wonderful to see the community of listeners come together around such diverse subjects as various serious political and economic issues, but also a sort of broad interest in Fast and Furious films, people’s ridiculous YouTube usernames, most famously of all, chicken mug mugs. We hope you’re well wherever you are, and you’re being supplied with as much chicken nugg nuggs as you could eat.


Coco Khan Turkey nugg nuggs this time of year. They deserve it.


Nish Kumar It just leads me to say a very quick and a very heartfelt thank you to Andy Zaltzman and Catherine Bohart for joining us for the last two episodes.


Andy Zaltzman It’s been a pleasure.


Nish Kumar We and thank you to the listeners both for listening and for contributing. We don’t always have time to include your messages on the podcast, but we always read them and we love getting your feedback. Whether it’s good or bad. We don’t really love the bad. That was a complete lie.


Coco Khan So if you do have something you’d like to share with us, you can get in touch by emailing We love hearing your voices, so do send us a voice note. The number is 07514644572. You can save that number. And then when someone asks Fee that chats you up, up, up at a pub and you give a fake number. Give them that.


Catherine Bohart Yes.


Coco Khan We can do that internationally too. It’s + 447514644572.


Nish Kumar Thanks very much for listening. You can catch up on episodes. We’ll be back next week. Don’t forget to follow @PodSavetheUK. In the meantime, on Instagram and Twitter, you can also find us on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Coco will only accept five star reviews, but my bar is lower. I’ll take three and up.


Coco Khan Pod Save the UK is to a Reduced Listening production for Crooked Media.


Nish Kumar Thanks to senior producer Musty Aziz and digital producer, Alex Bishop, with additional production support from Tanya Hynes, Ed Morrish and Annie Keates Thorpe.


Coco Khan Video editing was by Will Dokken and music is by Vasilis Fotopoulos


Nish Kumar Thanks to our engineer David Durgahee.


Coco Khan The executive producers are Anushka Sharma, Dan Jackson and Madeleine Heringer with additional support from Ari Schwartz.


Nish Kumar Remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify, or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.