Ira and Louis dive into the week’s major celebrity deaths from Shelley Duvall to Richard Simmons to Dr. Ruth to Shannen Doherty to Trump’s ear, Katy Perry’s messy new single Woman’s World, Faye Dunaway’s HBO doc Faye, and whether Gen Z knows who JJ Abrams is. 

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TRANSCRIPT

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of the Keep It obituaries. Well, I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel Hello, I’m Shelley Duvall. I mean, what else am I supposed to say? You got to begin with that. I’m Louis Virtel. Ufff.

 

Ira Madison III Hello?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Go ahead.

 

Ira Madison III I love, I love that. Hello? I’m Shelley Duvall.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s. You have to get a little bit more singsong. It’s. Hello, I’m Shelley Duvall. Like you have to. There has to be a lilt to it.

 

Ira Madison III What does that from again?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, she hosted fairy tale theater in the 80s. She’s the rare person who straddles the, prestige 70 cinema and children’s television. I really can’t think of anybody else like Laurence Fishburne is sort of, does a little bit of both in terms of prestige. And he was obviously on Pee Wee’s Playhouse. But it’s very rare that we get people who do both.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. That clip obviously went around this week. I feel like it goes around every few months. But then it started going around, after Shelley Duvall passed, this week, it’s just a clip of her introduction in each of those episodes, and it’s, you know, I was just saying, hi, I’m Shelley Duvall, in different costumes.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Different version of what I would call a, demented Raggedy Ann getup. I mean.

 

Ira Madison III It’s always there’s always.

 

Louis Virtel A pigtail or, you know, an askew, kind of, apron looking each looking down.

 

Ira Madison III Eureka’s castle coated.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Eureka’s castle. One of those shows like bear in the Big Little House where the guy in the costume is so frightening because his neck moves too much, that I can’t stop thinking about the neck movements on those creatures.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. This is a sad week. Keep it. Usually we have someone dying, who will take precedence, in our topics for the week. But this week, we have three people for, for. Oh, yeah. We got Shannen Doherty, my girl.

 

Louis Virtel Namely your girl. Like, this is the kind of person where when they passed away, I thought, all right, I was in Defcon one. Right now, I absolutely know he’s gotten off the class from Melrose Place. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It was such a weird bobert, too, because I was at, good room in, Brooklyn and seeing Carrie Nation play, and, obviously they finish around like 5:30 a.m. six, and I’m taking the train home and drinking water, climbing into bed. And literally the last thing I see before I’m about to fall asleep is Shannen Doherty has passed away. And do you think I went to fucking bed?

 

Louis Virtel Absolutely. No, no. A new day begins. Yes. Correct.

 

Ira Madison III I’m just up. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And that was also, again, as you said, the fourth person to pass away in a very short sequence of time. We had Shelley Duvall, Richard Simmons, which I watched me compose a poem live on the air about how much I fucking love transcendence, one of a kind he has how how essential he is. We’ll talk about him today. And then, of course, we’ll get a little bit into Doctor Ruth to Really Dangerous and Richard Simmons, two people that you expected to see about once a month on morning TV during a certain era of television, like you couldn’t avoid them on the Regis and Kathie Lee circuit.

 

Ira Madison III And even the, kids circuit. I want to say Doctor Ruth was obviously a person, who was very important to adults. Like she would be in, on daytime talk shows, etcetera. But Doctor Ruth was also a person who would pop up on MTV shows.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Because she had, you know, kooky appeal like, well, let her be the young people and stun them with her candor sort of thing.

 

Ira Madison III Particularly, I was like, love line with Doctor Drew.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And Doctor Adam Corolla. That’s correct.

 

Ira Madison III Our finest love, doctor.

 

Louis Virtel I imagine taking his advice for what to do while. I’m sorry. Fucking. Excuse me.

 

Ira Madison III Doctor. Not my fault. Honestly, though, we should bring back those kind of shows. To be honest, I don’t think there’s enough shows with an expert and a random celebrity talking about your love life.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll also in general, I mean, aside from things like QVC and I guess watch what happens live, more shows where people dial in because that energy is just unmistakable. Like the way Larry King would take a caller and I’m like, who the hell is this? Do they know anything about the news?

 

Ira Madison III So we take callers more often.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, that’d be so much fun. We did that once upon a time. Real Frazier shit.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah, I was fun. The pandemic, wild, wild era for this show.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right up was down. We just try to get out of it.

 

Ira Madison III So, yeah, we have these four deaths, that we’re going to get into this week. And that’s why we don’t have a guest this week. Because I feel like we just have a lot of ground to cover. But let me tell you, I know who didn’t die this week. Go ahead. Donald Trump.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I see I thought this was actually leading into the Katy Perry topic. But yeah, Donald Trump does seem to be alive.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Katy died this week. Okay. Katy died many deaths this week. We will be talking about a robin’s world, obviously. But, you know, this this is at Pod Save America, where you’re going to get your hot takes on what this means for democracy. But, man, just hanging out at home, not paying attention to. A Trump rally. Because why would we ever I feel like they’re always happening.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And there’s also the the most information free zones on the planet. Like you’re not going to come away from it being like, oh, he really illuminated that complicated issue this time. No, he called somebody ugly, you know.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s a traveling circus is what it is. You know, it’s like it’s a modern day Barnum and Bailey. But he was shot at, on Saturday. That was another the leading into learning about Shannen Doherty death. Like, like early Sunday morning, late Saturday evening, the seriousness of the Trump assassination attempt happening in the middle of the day at his rally, and then sort of going about the rest of the night. And I don’t know how it was for you in L.A., but it’s talking with people. It was still like it didn’t happen. It was a very weird thing to discuss. Having happened just a few hours earlier.

 

Louis Virtel I found out about it when I was in the a crowded car with people on our way to a pool party. So everybody is just like everybody has googly eyes like sticks. Typically, if you’re familiar with Nickelodeon lore and we get to the party and then so I hear about it and like I finally watch the footage of it and honestly. Your instinct is to go to a place like Twitter, but I just. I didn’t even want to see the jokes. I didn’t want to see the content, which I knew was going to be like, multiply and like it’d be the same joke we saw again and again or whatever. Like, I’m not saying I needed it to be a somber moment where I think about how important he is for society. Like, that’s not it at all either. It’s more like my brain just went in to force quit. It was just.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel That’s. It’s like unspeakably bizarre. We’re living in the bizarre, and I need a moment just to zonk out and and not think about this more, but that, of course, I thought about it more. And I realized who has encouraged more political violence than this person. So it feels like the fourth verse of, you know, Atlantis is ironic. Not that we needed another perfect song.

 

Ira Madison III That is the exact take away from this, by the way, who has encouraged political violence more than Donald Trump and his party? Because, of course, what they love to do after something like this happens is find a way to blame Democrats. And then, of course, what Democrats do after this is fall for the bait.

 

Louis Virtel You’re like, I’m gonna silence everybody. Let them harass us.

 

Ira Madison III You know, everyone jumping to say, we don’t encourage political violence, you know, like, we should never get to this point. It’s like, oh, are you stupid? Like, look like you’re like a mouse running for the cheese, the fake cheese, and getting snapped up by the trap every time this happens. Do you think that they give a fuck anytime anything bad happens to us? I’m not saying you have to be like. You have to be going on, you don’t have to call in, to the hotline and cheer that he was shot. But also, you can also just say nothing, right?

 

Louis Virtel No, they’re they’re running game. And we’re dressed as referees being like, that’s bad and that’s good. You know, meanwhile the running game.

 

Ira Madison III There Lucy with the football. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god my favorite reference ever.

 

Ira Madison III And we’re Charlie Brown.

 

Louis Virtel What an asshole. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But what an idiot. Kicking for it every time.

 

Louis Virtel He’s like this is my chance. After all, I am still a superstar athlete. In my head, he was delusional. Charlie Brown is one of the most delusional people in the history of pop culture. Meanwhile, that’s. And Lucy is like a Republican. She’s memo. She’s like, I’m actually a psychiatrist. You should be coming to me for advice. I know things. And meanwhile she’s like, total quack again. Running game.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Doling out her advice at her stand. Honestly, peanuts is sort of probably apt for politics right now, because Biden sounds like the teachers who sounds like the adults talking in peanuts at this point. He gets on the mic at anything and it’s right in front. Right. Was that it was.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And Charlie Brown looks to the camera and he’s like.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, sure. And not just falling for the bait in the sense of, you know, the Democrats themselves also people who are voting Democrats because I’m sorry, I should be able to tweet something about how, his answer is in a Lester Holt interview where Lester asks him about this fucking, propagating political violence thing like an idiot. The worst journalism you’ve ever seen. And then Biden actually responding in earnest instead of being like, girl, what are you talking about?

 

Louis Virtel Right? He did sort of set Lester Holt straight by the end of the interview, being like, why don’t you ask me like the 28, lies he told or something like that? But, yes, you’re right.

 

Ira Madison III You do that and then you mention that, and then you have people in your mentions being like, well, I don’t think that this is helpful. I’m like, my tweets are not deciding democracy at this point. Okay? I mean, what are we doing here?

 

Louis Virtel I just I still I’m looking for people to identify a reason more than cringe why they’re so obsessed with getting rid of Biden at this particular moment. I don’t really get it. I just it feels like petulant teenage response to the fact that he’s getting words mixed up. I just I don’t think he’s, again, going to fall asleep on a lever and accidentally but nuke the eastern seaboard. Like, I don’t know what you think is going to happen with with Biden. But anyway.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fair. I do think we still have another debate left. I think that we have just several months going on before we get to the election, and I think my concerns and other people’s are that he is and he might get worse, you know, at if things get supremely worse right before the election, then what are we going to do?

 

Louis Virtel I my answer that would be vote for the administration that he represents and not just him. But anyway, that’s fair. Anyway, the only debate I’m interested in having right now, Shelley Duvall, his best work. Let’s get into it.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. We will be right back with more. Keep it.

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Louis Virtel This past week, it seemed like every day we were getting news of a celebrity’s death. From Shelley Duvall to Richard Simmons to Shannen Doherty to Doctor Ruth. Even the tip of Donald Trump’s ear has fallen. How Holyfield? We could dedicate this whole segment to just one of their legacies, but we’re going to cover as much ground as we can about their careers and what we’ll miss most about them. I guess we’ll start with Shelley Duvall. Since she died, what seems now like years ago, based on the week we’ve had. But, my immediate thought when she passed away. And if you’re not familiar with, Shelley Duvall, she’s the star of The Shining, most famously. But she was in a number of Robert Altman movies in the 70s. She makes an appearance in Annie Hall. She was in fairy tale theater in the 80s. There are not many actors where the minute they are on screen, they are commanding. There is something about this woman and just her look, which is she’s got these round eyes, much like actual olive oil. She was in the movie version of, Popeye tude, one of the weirdest movies you will ever experience.

 

Ira Madison III I love it. Yeah, okay. Of course I do it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s the most dank colored movie for being a Popeye adaptation. Anyway, it’s so strange, but Shelley Duvall has, such a tenderness when she’s on screen. There’s a quality where you’re looking into her eyes, trying to interpret what is going on in this person’s head, because something about her is so obviously unusual. I’m gonna make the Lewis brutal comparison right now. You would say Sandy Dennis comes to mind. They both have this, like, strange, kind of insect like vibe when they come on screen, but at the same time, there’s a thoughtfulness about them, too. And Robert Altman was obsessed with the both of them. Cast them in, multiple films. He was like, come here, ladies, come here in a, you know, chatter on screen with me, come here and tremble. Which is what these women did really well.

 

Ira Madison III You know what I just really love obviously The Shining is where, you know, she, most people would remember her from, but it’s, it is just this sort of commanding thing about her that almost like takes the film away from Jack Nicholson.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. You know, I’m really different universe mentally, not just because he’s a crazy person in the movie, but because. Yeah, who is this woman? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And, there’s really nothing like just watching her sort of unspool in that movie. The, the obvious scene is the one where, you know, he’s chopping down the bathroom door, trying to get in there, and there’s the Here’s Johnny scene. But seeing her react to the ax, like chopping up that bathroom door is truly one of the maybe top ten, scenes in cinema for me.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. I mean, also, when she’s running through that hedge maze and the the running itself, the movements she’s doing as she’s trying to get away from Jack Torrance, the I guess I would call it Galumphing just the, the kind of like a limp animal, like the shoulders are moving, like the elbows are moving and like, the barely her knees are getting off the ground. The trudging is so painful to watch. It’s so well realized. And of course, that is one of the most famously tumultuous movie shoots of all time. Jack Nicholson, in one interview said that Stanley Kubrick became a completely different director to Shelley Duvall, who took 99 takes to finish the bathroom scene that you were talking about. Some people would say that the what happened to her on set of that movie is like a little bit overblown and maybe underestimates her abilities as an actor, but at the same time, it sounds like hell to me. I would not want to be on that side. So the fact that we got an iconic performance out of it and by the way, it took a few years, I think for people to accept that performance as iconic because it was a Razzie winning performance once upon a time. And in fact, it’s the only Razzie Award winning performance where they eventually rescinded it based on what she went through on the set of that movie. Not that the Razzies have any stature whatsoever, and we should be talking about them as if they mean anything. In fact, I think on this show where we’ve talked about how actors win Razzies and it’s always like we’re, just ribbing them a little bit, you know, like, oh, Sylvester Stallone, you were in another bad movie. Whereas the women who won Razzies, namely for Best Actress, it was always like, you’re a pretty woman who wants to be taken seriously, and we’re making fun of you for it. It was always people like Madonna or Melanie Griffith or Demi Moore, Sharon Stone, people like that where people couldn’t handle that they were, commanding respect in any way. So they wanted to take them down a notch.

 

Ira Madison III And I would say that the women, by the way, are the only cool thing about the rouses, because the only time you ever hear about the rouses in a fun and interesting way, is when one of them shows up to collect their award.

 

Louis Virtel Right. No, the Halle Berry, the Sandra Bullock, etc..

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of just even that shoot for The Shining was that and Popeye both came out in the same year.

 

Louis Virtel So correct.

 

Ira Madison III Which one was shot first?

 

Louis Virtel I would assume The Shining since it took forever.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But I’m just thinking about Kubrick and his, you know, fucking shoot and how fucking long they are. I mean, Nicole Kidman has talked about how she went to shoot Eyes Wide Shut with Tom, and they thought it was going to be, you know, just like a short film shoot. And then it ended up being I think it’s in the Guinness World Records of being the longest constant movie shoot that ran over 15 months, including a period of, an unbroken shoot of, like 46 fucking weeks.

 

Louis Virtel Jesus Christ. And at that point, Nicole’s like, get these scenes off of me. I’m getting the fuck away.

 

Ira Madison III Scientology. What would you say are some of Shelley’s sort of underrated, performances or things that people should check out? I’m sort of partial to. She doesn’t have a big part in it, but I’m sort of partial to Roxanne.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No. A movie that never comes up in the context of Shelley Duvall. She is really good in that we talked about this movie before, when, City Space was here, but three women from the 70s is this bewitching, film. I actually don’t want to give anything away about it, other than they both give definitive performances, and you want to see them together. From the minute that movie starts, you’re in an atmosphere that feels initially uncomfortable. But, you really warm into that movie. It’s fabulous. She’s in McCabe and Mrs. Miller at the beginning of the decade. It’s a Robert Altman movie that’s a sort of revisionist Western with, Warren Beatty. I would recommend that to. But also look her up on fairy tale theater. I think she had a lot of joy in her as a performer. And you get that in these introductions to these, you know, the strange vignette, things. A couple of years ago, Seth Abramowitz wrote a profile on, how Shelley Duvall was living now. And that’s a really refreshing read and not exploitative the way her appearance on Doctor Phil was a couple of years ago, where he basically, treated her like a dying dog, a pathetic creature. And, in case you needed any further validation that Doctor Phil is maybe less than a good doctor.

 

Ira Madison III Really?

 

Louis Virtel I know.

 

Ira Madison III I have an appointment with him tomorrow.

 

Louis Virtel I always thought Kathy Griffin used to always make jokes about him. Like, I think he’s, like, a botanist or something. It was always I. I.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I always forget that Doctor Phil was one of the main producers on. So help me, Todd, the CBS show that I worked on, we had a whole meeting with him at the beginning of it, just so he could meet everybody.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God. Well, he’s one of those Judge Judy like people who’s worth like $750 million for some reason.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Also side note, since you brought up Warren Beatty, have you ever seen the Roman Spring of Mrs..

 

Louis Virtel Stone with Vivien Leigh.

 

Ira Madison III Vivien Leigh.

 

Louis Virtel And Lotte Lenya? Yes. It’s a crazy movie.

 

Ira Madison III It is crazy. It is. A friend recommended it to me. And I rented it on Amazon and watched it. I’m fascinated by it. It’s based on the only novel that Tennessee Williams ever wrote.

 

Louis Virtel Correct. And, obviously Vivien Leigh in a Tennessee Williams place. I always support that. But, the takeaway from that movie is Warren at his youngest is just you can’t believe somebody is that attractive. Well, this this will come up again later this episode when we get to my Keep It and, the new Faye Dunaway documentary.

 

Ira Madison III But stay tuned, Wolf. The last thing I want to say about Shelley Duvall, too, is there’s this Twitter account, like Shelley Duvall updates, and the person who sort of ran it had a relationship with Shelley, too. And, that’s just very sweet to see, you know, her later in life. Like, this person would visit Shelley often. Have conversations with her. It’s just nice that she had this sort of connection to the outside world in her last days, and. Very funny thing is that one of the last, maybe the last tweet, the day or so before Shelley died, the person who runs the account tweeted that she played Sabrina Carpenter’s espresso for Shelley as she liked it. I mean.

 

Louis Virtel What a way to go if I died tomorrow. And that was the last single I heard. I be like humanity. You’re okay with me?

 

Ira Madison III All right, let’s roll into Richard Simmons.

 

Louis Virtel Guys, this is devastating. Okay, I don’t know if you remember early in the pandemic on Keep It, but for a while I was working out at home, which, by the way, I can’t believe people work out at home and sweat inside the house as they live. I think that’s so shocking.

 

Ira Madison III Some people still do.

 

Louis Virtel I think it’s very weird.

 

Ira Madison III By the way, I have a friend who does home workouts, doesn’t go to a gym anymore, and it is. It is disgusting not just being that sweaty in your own home, but your workout clothes, your weights here, like in your living space where you live like, you know, people with their fucking peloton bikes. It’s I don’t want that shit in the presence of my home.

 

Louis Virtel No, in fact, during the pandemic, I bought a treadmill and it was being delivered to my place and I don’t know what fell off the truck or something. I’m picturing some sort of Marx Brothers mistake. It never got to my house, and I’m so glad. I mean, like, I like a treadmill, etc. but yeah. Oh, not next to like, my DVD collection. Come on, let’s have some dignity.

 

Ira Madison III We’re kind of what’s up, doc scene. Is this where the treadmill is falling off track?

 

Louis Virtel The truck crashes into two people holding a giant pane of glass.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, right.

 

Louis Virtel Richard Simmons. Okay. I mean, first of all, it must be said at a certain time in history, in the 90s, really? But even before that, when, like, sweating to the oldies came out in the 80s, this is somebody who was not just famous. He was one of the most famous people. Like, he’s he is in this space of like Vanna White or, Doctor Joyce brothers were and or Doctor Ruth really where they appeared so often and in spaces in television where everybody saw them that I think it’s fair to say they were as famous as, like Michael Jackson and Madonna. It would be so weird if you didn’t know who Richard Simmons was once upon a time, and he was the face of fitness. You know, a couple of years after, Jane Fonda dropped out of the fitness industry, Richard Simmons really kind of took over. And for me, I think the amazing thing about Richard Simmons and of course, he was never, quote unquote, out in his lifetime, but he really represented in his physicality what he wore, how he looked, how he sounded. Basically everything a man is not supposed to be. I mean, he was extremely loud when he was excited. He was a screaming queen. There was no other way to put it. Screaming queen behavior is what he represented, the way he loved old music like sweatin to the oldies got me into music. It’s like, oh, what are the Supremes? What are, Martha and the Vandellas or, Jerry Lee Lewis? It’s like it’s sort of foundational when you’re there’s just, acquainting yourself with the essential music of American culture in the 50s and 60s, really. But also there was a lack of self-consciousness about just exhibiting queenie ness. I, I, I say, I feel sorry for gay kids who did not grow up with Richard Simmons because you knew that somewhere in the world someone was just beaming with exuberance. Everything inside them, whether or not it was entirely masculine or entirely conventional behavior. I mean, he really made a kid feel like you could be a kid as loud as he could be and and love being alive. Really. There was a joie de vive about everything he did, and the narrative was more important to him than, for instance, representing fitness just in a, muscle centric way, the way the rest of the world did. And I don’t know that we have many people who have done that since.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, you can definitely tell kids who were raised by seeing Richard Simmons on TV and kids were raised by Kurt Hummel in the New Directions. Yeah. A different kind of cleaning out. We’re at. We’re at war. Yeah. I think that’s also a really interesting point that you just brought up about the not just caring about the, the, the muscle, like, sort of like the image of, what a person who works out all the time, you know, you would see you wouldn’t expect to see Richard Simmons on the cover of Men’s Health. Currently, the way that you see people now within the fitness industry, the way that you see people on Instagram, etc., sort of within this world, there was just always this idea that working out was fun, right? And that everyone should do it.

 

Louis Virtel And it was for everybody. That was, I think, also a big part of the triumph of sweat into the oldies is which was his first videotape in, 1987. It takes all kinds. There are people there who look like they belong on a men’s health cover. Then there are, you know, I’ll say like older mom figures or something. And then there’s even older people or even younger people. He really was like, it was an energy forward situation. Everybody can feel really, you know, effervescent as they dance to this music as opposed to just, you know, and of course, this is the 80s where things like steroids are becoming really popular. You know, I’ll just say, for example, that Sylvester Stallone looks a lot different than he does in the original Rocky ones. By the time you get to Rocky three, you know.

 

Ira Madison III Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, I think that the one thing about TikTok, I would say, at least in terms of I’m always watching dancing videos, right. I think that we’ve kind of gotten back to this point where when you watch people doing a TikTok dance move and can just sort of be like, anybody can be like, mom and dad’s doing them. It could be someone who doesn’t look like they’d be a backup dancer for a pop star. And you just love that they’re dancing and hitting the moves, and it’s fun to watch. I think that there was just a period where. Fitness culture became so dominant, especially through social media, and it just became so image heavy that the idea of these old workout, videos, infomercials that we grew up on, where you would see the people working out behind like a Richard Simmons or Billy Blanks or whoever, looking like regular people. We got away from that completely. I think it’s still so foreign to some people, to the idea that regular people who take sort of a workout class, you know, and I feel like now it’s it’s probably intimidating for people to sign up for an Orange Theory or class at Equinox or something, because you don’t really have that image in culture anymore of working out is fun and for everybody, right?

 

Louis Virtel But also in general, I think on social media, how often are we actually exhibiting in an authentic way? Joy. I mean, it’s just like it really is all about looking like an attractive postage stamp, you know, as opposed to being like, my spirit is being rejuvenated and, and fed right now. I also want to say about Richard Simmons, you would probably know him from cameos on talk show appearances, you know, throughout the decade, namely on David Letterman show. Now, I grew up on David Letterman. That droll bastard. Leanness appeals to me. It is very funny. I think David Letterman should apologize to Richard Simmons. The point of Richard Simmons being on the show was that he was a joke and know it’s like it was an easy pot shot to take. I’m not saying hitting a skittering man in little shorts with a fire extinguisher doesn’t have comic value. It probably does. But it was mean. I mean, it’s just I think this is somebody who could expect to walk through life encountering meanness, which is interesting because he was so, empathetic, often to his own detriment. This is somebody who would meet people at work out classes, forge lifelong friendships with them, call them when they were having problems, and get into real like deep friendships with almost everybody he met, to the point where it makes sense that he went became a hermit because he just couldn’t handle how emotional a person he was, how empathetic a person he was demanding those relationships could be. He was posting on Twitter very recently before his death, I think. I think his death is a big shock to his family ultimately. But, he’s just somebody who, even if people like you and I appreciated his, like, queeniness, I don’t think that that was utterly appreciated the world over. I think a lot of people just treated him as a joke that we all were in on, and it was gross. There was a gross quality to how we accepted him.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, and I would say that I like the moments where he’s able to reclaim that and sort of be a part of the joke. I think the this clip that was going around, recently of his appearance on Whose Line Is it anyway?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes.

 

Ira Madison III That’s very funny one. That one was funny. You know, that one was making fun of, you know, his queenie ness, like doing sort of like this gay sort of bit. But it was improv and it was on his terms, and it was funny. And he wasn’t the butt of the joke. He was in on the joke.

 

Louis Virtel Right? I do think, and I was worried when I started watching that clip because when he walks onto the stage, like, even if they’re joking, like, Ryan Stiles is kind of wincing at him. So you didn’t know how much he was going to actually get to be a funny part of the bit. But no, it’s a very classic, appearance. He also was on The Rosie O’Donnell show a number of times, and there’s one clip where he runs and.

 

Ira Madison III We’ve talked about that before.

 

Louis Virtel And excuse me, picks up Celine Dion. Imagine. It’s like running around with like, the Statue of Liberty in your hands. It makes no sense. It’s very crazy.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah that we’ve talked about that before the show. And that is honestly a classic clip that needs to be thought. We need the entire Rosie O’Donnell show streaming, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel No talk about a show that needs to be revisited in podcast form. And by the way, Rosie is still like a great broadcaster. Whenever she comments on stuff she’s got. Like the sound bites down to the word. I would love to hear that.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, we’re due for a Rosie sods and we’re going to get it when. And just like that, season three drops off.

 

Louis Virtel I am overwhelmed. I am overwhelmed already. Miranda and Rosie.

 

Ira Madison III Louis is grabbing the table. Everybody. That’s when you know that the news is the news is intense. Speaking of you grabbing the table and bracing yourself for something you did that last week, what I told you about Halle Berry and Glenn Close joining Ryan Murphy’s legal drama starring Kim Kardashian. And would you believe it, Halle Berry dropped out of that so quickly.

 

Louis Virtel I believe we helped.

 

Ira Madison III Yesterday.

 

Louis Virtel I believe we helped.

 

Ira Madison III She dropped out of it! Glenn, you’re next.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And by the way, I saw Glenn in the trailer for that new Lee Daniels movie, and something might be going on there. Something might be going on there.

 

Ira Madison III Wait, it looks good. It looks it I, I we first we saw the photos of her looking at. You know, very like she was living at Marjorie Taylor Greene trailer Park. Yeah, right. Like it was giving that the the hair, the cigaret smoking. And I know it’s a menthol. Yeah. Right. And, the trailer, though I really wasn’t expecting it to be a, a black sort of exorcist. Yeah. And. The cast of it. I mean, I was I was just hooked by the trailer in general. But, you know, at the end of every sort of trailer where it lists actors names and it always says, like Academy Award nominee and then Academy Award winner when it was just like Academy Award nominee Glenn Close, Academy Award nominee Andra Day, Academy Award nominee Jenny Ellis, and Academy Award winner Mo’Nique. I was like, bitch, I’m in. This is giving Paper Boy. Yeah to also.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me like Mo’Nique acting again. Okay. Yes. I mean, like, there’s nobody who thinks that Oscar win is undeserved. She motored through that year. We talked about that with Anna Kendrick, who was nominated against her. She was like, I got out of the way. Yes, I’m very excited. And also, Aunjanue Ellis is one of our best actors. I’m still not over what she did in origin. That was a fabulous performance. Anyway, we have a couple other deaths to get to. Let’s get to Shannen Doherty. Okay. My name was Shannen Doherty. Of course. Is the movie Heathers where the wardrobe?

 

Ira Madison III Heather Duke.

 

Louis Virtel Heather Duke looking absolutely phenomenal. But she is more important, I think, in the, primetime soap universe. And I believe, IRA, I assume you’ve conducted a song or a dance for us, to commemorate all this.

 

Ira Madison III I will sing. The Smiths song. That was the charm theme song.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Of course. Charm too. Yes. Right.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Charmed is. Charms is where a lot of younger people remember her from which, by the way, I started watching charmed again on Peacock. They do not have the rights to that, Smiths song. So there are some shitty, like, royalty free music playing.

 

Louis Virtel When when you watch an old show again and they don’t have the music, I have to shut it off. If I’m watching The Wonder Years, I do not want to listen to a muzak version of Joe Cocker or whatever you play over the opening credits. Absolutely not.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, in the same sort of problem happened with Beverly Hills, not up to an hour, where, of course, Shannen Doherty really came to prominence, where she played Brenda Walsh on the show. The show was about, her and her brother, Brandon moving from the Midwest to Beverly Hills and the culture shock that happened. That was the initial conceit of the show, obviously. And then it just became a crazy teen soap opera. But, one problem with that show, too, is Aaron Spelling shows, he was the producer of the show, and Aaron Spelling, of course, is producing Melrose Place, dynasty. All of these, you know, major. Yeah, Charlie’s Angels, these big major shows. But his soap operas always had a point where around season 2 or 3, I produced charmed as well. Around season 2 or 3, a character opens up a club where all the people start mingling.

 

Louis Virtel Duh. Let’s get let’s get them all on one set.

 

Ira Madison III They had the Peach Pit on Beverly Hills 92, and oh, that became the Peach Pit After Dark, a club. And that was one of those shows where, because it was Fox and because it was the 90s, there’d be people like Christina Aguilera appears in an episode of, like, Boyz two men performing at this club. And then if you don’t get the rights to that fucking music, that episode’s just missing from streaming, you know? But getting back to Shannen, she is such an interesting case of a celebrity because if you know anything about Shannen Doherty, sort of, issues on set, there was always she’s fighting with somebody on set, and, you know, someone was always saying she’s a bitch. You know, there are always stories about, conflict with her on set. And I really think that she was more of a misunderstood sort of person. And she had her podcast, recently where she was really sort of diving into a lot of her past conflicts. And she was, really sort of apologetic about to the way that she was, as a teenager, you know, I think, like the fame going to her head immediately from Beverly Hills. 90210 and then, of course, we know about the conflicts that she had on charmed. But I will say the fact that Holly Marie Combs and Rose McGowan love Shannen Doherty down and do not fuck with Alyssa milano tells me that Shannen was not the problem on that show.

 

Louis Virtel Which is interesting because I think the prevailing memory of that show is that there was a Ding Dong the Witches dead party when she left the show, and the assumption there, as she was entirely the problem.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And then I feel like. Tom always tells the truth. Once the election rolls around and, listen, Milano became Alyssa milano. We were like, oh, that’s what Shannen was dealing with on set.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I was acquainted with the fact that a huge part of maybe why, her cancer diagnosis got worse is she, her health insurance lapsed around 2014. And by that time, like, the cancer got so much worse. What a completely depressing thing to learn.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, that fucking sucks. And like, a year passed and when she went in to finally get checked up again, the cancer had grown to a point where, you know, if it had been caught a year earlier, she’d be perfectly fine.

 

Louis Virtel Right? It’s unbelievable. Unbelievable.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But getting to her, just sort of like the way that she would sort of reflect on who she used to be on, like, the relationships that she had. I thought there was a really interesting post from Lisa in The fallout who played Heather McNamara. And she’s, of course, the last surviving Heather, from the movie Heathers. And she had an interesting post, which was one that I really appreciated because I think that when people die, there’s this, immediate sense to, glorify them and just go into this hole like we were best friends or like, I love this person. I’m like, I’m going to remember everything positive about them. And Lisa, I’d had a lovely post where she wrote, I felt quite conflicted about whether I should post anything, to be honest. Shannen and I weren’t friends. I hadn’t seen or spoken to her since the cast and crew screening of Heathers, the movie that defined us both in a public fashion. But by chance, I had recently listened to her podcast and was gently moved by her desire to, quote unquote, set the record straight as she owned up to some of the uncomfortable hunks of truth in her past. We’ve all got them. Yet Shannen’s courage in addressing them publicly as her health deteriorated. There was only one response how very. And I think that that is sort of a defining. Sort of thing for Shannen. You know, I think that it’s very rare that a celebrity or even people in general, you know, get to reflect on who they used to be. And then the journey that they’ve taken in life to become a different person. And it’s sad that, cancer and her life deteriorating was a part of it, but, I think Shannen sort of went out, you know, like a rock star.

 

Louis Virtel Do you have a favorite Shannen moment on Beverly Hills? No. Don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, so she was always involved in the love triangle with, Luke Perry. And, you know, they were dating he was dating Kelly at one point, and then he was dating Brenda. So their fights were always fun, but, I don’t know. I just really enjoyed the moments where she and Luke Perry were, laughing with each other and having fun. I love that relationship on the show, and they feel like teenagers. The fights that they have are very, like heated and intense and romantic. But, yeah, they’re just really sweet moments, you know? And I think that if you jump into charmed two, I tweeted this. But like, she, she sort of had this like. Like this inscrutability about her. When she was on charm, like she was. She was much older, you know, sort of like she could deliver a line with the cock of her head and just, like, sort of a look like she was, she was very much sort of just like that bitch on that show, and, I don’t know, just watching her every week. It was just like she was. She was cool. Yeah. I think to people in the 90s watching her on Beverly Hills, she was also cool. She was just a celebrity who epitomized cool. And there were a lot of people from that era who sort of represented that sort of, cool factor. I think that was sort of the big height of right after the Brat Pack and stuff, right? You know, so it’s like teens who were becoming celebrities, right?

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. They took off where the Brat Pack left off. Yeah, totally.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, absolutely. You’re cool. You liked how they dressed you like you liked watching, like who they dated, etc.. And she grew up into just like a cool adult, too, so, I don’t know, I really loved Shannen Doherty, and it’s so crazy to me that she sort of. Is placed in pop culture in such an interesting way where it’s. If you’re at if you’re thinking about what pop culture means in general and the most important parts of pop culture and sort of where we are now. Heathers and Beverly Hills 92 point now are like pillars.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. Absolutely. Now, speaking of cool, adults will tie this up quickly.

 

Ira Madison III Doctor Ruth.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, I think I’m one of the rare people who is probably quotable every time she speaks like you could write it down. And it’s probably helpful, honestly, as far as you need to go. Our friend Ryan White directed a documentary on Doctor Ruth a couple of years ago that is so good. Tells you everything you need to know, and.

 

Ira Madison III It’s really good.

 

Louis Virtel She became one of these people known for being spry and truth telling, even into her 90s. So, also, by the way, there’s another documentary about Sister Helen Prejean coming out called Rebel Nun that looks really good, sort of the same thing. It’s like, wow, this person is still crusading, but still this person is still living dead man walking, you know? So, watch that documentary. Really enjoyed it, a unmistakable personality.

 

Ira Madison III I still remember Sister Helen praise on tweeting at me, I remember. I wish I remembered the tweet. But it was something obviously goofy about the movie Dead Man Walking. As she responded. And I was like, this woman is alive. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel She’s around. Absolutely.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. I was absolutely shocked. What I loved to about Doctor Ruth was just sort of her, her appearance on other TV shows, too. Like, she’d pop up in sitcoms and stuff, too. Like, she was just fun to watch. So.

 

Louis Virtel And also we keep having sex. So she’s right.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So look up whatever her sex books are talks and be like, is this still valid? Now?

 

Louis Virtel Probably.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Well. There’s actually a more. Those are not as dire as I thought it would be. You know, it’s it’s nice remembering these people. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel It was. And also, I think there are people who are perceived in different ways, positively and negatively, and some of that was earned and some of that was bullshit. So I was happy to unpack that.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Another person received positively and negatively. We’re going to get into when we return, we’re going to talk about Katy Perry’s A Woman’s World.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III We already knew Katy Perry’s comeback was in trouble when we heard that snippet last month, but now that the song is out. Baby. She pulled that off the litter box. The only ones lucky enough to be living in that woman’s world are the people who haven’t seen the video yet. Because the song, I will say C minus.

 

Louis Virtel I feel the same way. It’s not a complete failure. It’s just neither here nor there. It’s okay. Yeah. It’s like if this were the eighth single off a really popular album, I’d be like, all right, we’re like getting down to not much material at all, but you got to put out something as a lead single. It makes very little sense.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But the video. The video is truly horrendous. And we talked about this when we talked about Katy Perry’s Vegas show, about whether or not, you know, like camp works for her or whether or not she’s funny. And she was funny at one point, but she really has evolved to this point where a a wacky smile. Is what makes the video for her. It’s just like like her putting on lipstick and having it, like not being on her lips while in the car with Trisha Paytas. It’s not funny to me. It hasn’t been funny since the Joker did it in Batman 32.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I will say when the anvil hits her. Okay, I laughed. Okay. I can, I can, I can I can get a little wily humor in there. All right. But you’re right. Otherwise, it’s just, I think one of her worst videos. I mean, like you brought up the Vegas show. I laughed routinely during that show. Now, can I be held accountable for my laughter based on, you know, the press pill that may have gotten into the drinks that week? Who’s to say? I don’t know, but watching this. Yeah, it did not feel, super joyful for me. And it doesn’t make the sound, the song sound any better. I will say another problem with the song is it’s missing ingredients. Where’s, like the bridge? Where’s the pre-chorus? Why is the chorus only the one line repeated twice? It’s like they gave up on the song while writing it. And of course, she’s, reteaming with Doctor Luke here. And look, if you’re going to make a Rumpelstiltskin like deal to get him on the mic, at least get one of the bangers. Jesus Christ, why is this what we got?

 

Ira Madison III She went to see the doctor, but she’s paying out of pocket. Okay. She does not have insurance.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, God. We’re all co-pay. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III The main problem with her going to work for Doctor Luke two is the fact that the song does not hit. The gears are ready to pounce yet. Obviously. Whenever. Like, there’s even a whiff of Doctor Luke’s name being mentioned. Right. But Kim Petras, even though she’s attacked from time to time, has largely avoided this. Doja Cat largely avoided this. Other people like Nicki, like, have released songs, and people still listen to old Doctor Luke songs. You know, if this was a banger, it might have quieted the murmurs a bit. But girl, it’s bad.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s bad. Also, I do have to say though, I feel like people went overboard in criticizing the quote unquote message of the song. Like people being like, oh, it’s so cringe, like the woman’s world, sentiment or whatever. Girl, do you think like umbrella has a powerful sentiment? Like, it has nothing to do with how much we like a pop song? I’m not saying like the lyrics couldn’t have been improved, but you could probably improve the lyrics to most songs. If you read the lyrics to Call Me Maybe, you’d be like, well, why can’t we incorporate something, you know, involving the hardships of reality? I don’t know, and and the reason is you don’t have to. It’s a pop song. It’s mostly just, you know, a piece of candy you pop in your mouth. I felt like people were doing the most to, add heft to disliking the song, and they wanted to turn it into, like a treatise on why Katy Perry can never work or doesn’t work, or, is completely oblivious to what people want. And it’s just an okay song that’s a flop a little bit. That’s it.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. I mean, you know, the preeminent, women’s, power anthem is Spice Up Your Life, I would say. And that’s got Yellow Man and Timbuk2 thrown in there. That’s right. What are we really talking about in that rap breakdown?

 

Louis Virtel That really is an overwhelming lyric. What are you supposed to do? Timbuktu. The country is Mali, where Timbuktu is, by the way.

 

Ira Madison III The other thing about Katie is that she just sort of makes herself a target so easily, and I don’t really get why someone was wondering, like, why are people so mean to Katy Perry? And if people really do get mean with Katy Perry, like they get nasty?

 

Louis Virtel Certainly. No, that’s what I mean. Like it’s like you couldn’t you couldn’t just say the song isn’t as good as it should be based on her, you know, amazing track record of number one hits, and other songs that remain underrated. We were just talking about Bon Appetit is an amazing song. When that song comes on, I’m like cross-eyed and turned out I’m ready to party.

 

Ira Madison III She gave me all that I want, boy. Yes, right, right.

 

Louis Virtel And that’s a song again about being eaten. Like, it’s just it’s not. Do you?

 

Ira Madison III Do you think Armie Hammer loves that song?

 

Louis Virtel Do you know that he’s back? Excuse me? He is on Bill Ma’s show. Where else the fuck would he be? I’m sorry. I mean, I guess that’s where he is. I am curious to hear that. Because I also feel like I’m not set. I think there’s some legit abuse in the Armie Hammer situation, however, but I also feel like we turned those texts into one story that it wasn’t. I don’t know, that’s so I’m interested to hear what he has to say. I’m interested.

 

Ira Madison III So he’s a cannibal, all right. I mean, I’m sure he’s on the dark web right now looking for a. The remnants of Trump’s ear.

 

Louis Virtel Sure. Right ear. Send to me. He types.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, he probably has Van Gogh’s ear to just, like, on display.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, he. You think you, like, collect celebrity ears?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, like a fine bottle of wine. You know that you were going to crack open at one point. I think Van Gogh’s ear is somewhere safe in Ami’s home, and he’s just waiting for the moment to, you know, fricassee that bitch.

 

Louis Virtel I picture the e the ear like, levitating in a sort of a liquid display. Sort of like Zordon on Power Rangers. That’s how I picture it. Looking like, you know, a little lava lamp. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Alpha five, very Richard Simmons. Coat it.

 

Louis Virtel In. Quite. Oh, yeah. I was looking at interviews. Stop me if I brought this up before with Trini, the late Tui Trang of Power Rangers recently. Gorgeous girl, beautiful speaking voice. Machine. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. No, he’s probably got that ear. He’s probably got a Evander Holyfield ear.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. What other.

 

Ira Madison III Ear collection? Yeah. What? What other celebrities have lost ears?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t think many. I think you may have covered the whole gamut. I don’t think there’s a whole five question jeopardy category there.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But now this whole thing about Katie is, is it’s very easy to attack her. And I will say. She does open herself up for it, because I don’t know if you saw the video where she explains that the Woman’s World video is satire, and I’m like, girl, if you got to explain the joke right, what are we doing here?

 

Louis Virtel I recently have been kind of acquainted with a number of people. I will not mention names who, for whatever reason, when I go out and they’re in my orbit, they they have to explain to me that they’re really funny. Like they bring that up and then they’re like, oh, my God. I mean, you’re understand? Really funny. Did you know that? You can just be funny. You don’t have to actually.

 

Ira Madison III Have a preamble.

 

Louis Virtel You can go right into it. We’re all waiting.

 

Ira Madison III Most people who are funny are described by their friends and actually random people they met as funny.

 

Louis Virtel You know, it’s like being a good singer. Yeah. It’s like, oh my God, have you heard this person saying because people like it, you know what I mean? It’s not. It’s not like you have you have to sell like the, those, those chillers in the say They Say video with Michael Jackson.

 

Ira Madison III It’s the it’s the number one thing that people sort of look for when they’re dating and looking for a partner. And it’s also. The number one treat. It’s sort of awful, people, that makes you sort of not hate them as much. Because what do we always say about Donald Trump? He is honestly one of the funniest people alive.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Which is I think the, the thing ultimately people like the most about him, there’s like a that makes them sort of impervious to a certain kind of criticism. And you can respond with, laughing at other people because of him.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know. I’m hoping that the rest of the album is good. She has played snippets and an interview with Zane Lowe, and there have been other snippets that she did on Instagram Live, and they’re giving sort of a few of them are giving Molly music, not Timbuktu.

 

Louis Virtel Molly. That’s Molly. Correct.

 

Ira Madison III Got you. The meat is dropping in the club. You’re turning up like that is what we want from Katie. And what’s so interesting is that that song she did with, Alessio, when I’m gone. And then three, six, five with Zed. Those were such interesting spaces for her to move into. Very Ava Maxie vibes, you know? And I feel like Ava max came up and stole her food, you know? Yeah, but Katie, Katie should have gone in that route. But for some reason, she still thinks that she can reclaim that teenage dream pop era. And it’s. We’ve moved on from that. Just give us some shit for the club and you can get some number ones. Bebe Rexha and Rita Ora have them. Okay, so I know you can get it back.

 

Louis Virtel Also, Diamonds and Dancers by Ava max I’m telling you, one of the best albums of the past three years. It comes on. And yeah, I’m running a Barry’s class right in the car.

 

Ira Madison III I know.

 

Louis Virtel Doing flip flops from the front seat to the back while I’m at a red light.

 

Ira Madison III Right. But because it’s Ava, people don’t really know it outside of gaze, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. She just she hasn’t really commanded a lot of respect yet. Yeah. Right. Totally.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Imagine if Katy Perry had released Diamonds and Dance Floors.

 

Louis Virtel The. No. I know it works.

 

Ira Madison III Out in her favor.

 

Louis Virtel Totally.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I’m sure she thinks about that because Woman’s World was originally a Ava max song that she took and then had cleaned up.

 

Louis Virtel Got right. Yeah. Did she just drop it like, she just recorded it and didn’t want to do it?

 

Ira Madison III I think, she recalled. I didn’t want to do it. And then I think what? The doctor was brought in to Frankenstein, a new chorus or whatever.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I see, I see, yeah. Anyway, remains a C-minus.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So it’s not even the doctor’s full work, to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel That’s true. That’s true.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. It’s, he just did some cosmetic surgery on the song and left us with what we have.

 

Louis Virtel So, hopefully the rest of the album is better, but I am optimistic it will be.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, even at her worst, you know, like you, she gives you some some bangers on the album witness. Started out with a whole messy fucking rollout. That’s when I wrote that, vulture article. What is Katy Perry doing? And then, lo and behold, there’s bangers on the album.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right. The first single in that album is chained to the rhythm. Right?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel What a weirdo. First choice for a single. I’m not saying that that song doesn’t kind of grow on you after a time, but you would be crazy to put that in your ten favorite Katy Perry songs.

 

Ira Madison III I think also the the Mali feature on it is so weird too because it’s she kept talking about purpose for pop. And then you hear this song and it sounds almost reggae tinged, and it was like, well, if she was going to release her version of Rocksteady, maybe I would have gotten it. But nothing on the album sounds like chained to the rhythm. And then she releases Bon Appetit and Swish Swish and it’s okay. Well, the purposeful pop went out the window, but yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Tell me about the purpose of Swish Swish. With that Space Jam ass video.

 

Ira Madison III That is also, by the way, her brand of comedy is, just cameos from random celebrities like that. That’s fun to her.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God. Remember when Taylor Swift was just hit us with cameos in every venue of her life again and again and again. Sorry. Let’s bring this back to somebody. I feel very comfortable slamming Taylor Swift.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. You know what? Did she even release a new thing this week? Does she even have to bother competing with Katie? Right.

 

Louis Virtel If you’re not familiar, now people are on to Taylor Swift, too, when, like, another female artist comes out with some banger thing like an Charli XCX, brat, etc. she then reissues Tortured Poets department in some new form, where it has one track that was previously only available in like the Philippines. And but people are on to her now, so maybe she’ll slow down.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, she did release the acoustic version of Fortnite, which I will say, I kind of love.

 

Louis Virtel Oh man.

 

Ira Madison III Kind of hits it.

 

Louis Virtel But I’ll be on my own team right now.

 

Ira Madison III But side note, it’s a that Taylor thing. It reminds me of a very funny ad I saw. I have not seen Long Legs yet, but neon released an ad, a poster for, Long Legs, and it says the number one movie in America. And then with an asterisk underneath it, it says after Despicable Me four. And, as a, Charli XCX fan base of world with the number one album in the UK, and then with an Asterix After the Torch poets department.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s very funny. Yeah. We won’t have time to talk about this. Director of Long Legs is Osgood Perkins, the son of Anthony Perkins. He’s been a little bit. I did not.

 

Ira Madison III Know. Yeah, I did not know this, by the way, that’s good for business.

 

Louis Virtel And, like, legally blond and, six degrees of separation. But he he made some comment where he’s like, I don’t watch modern horror. And then he said, I like, I haven’t seen Maxine and I haven’t seen, ex. And he just brings up the movies of Tai West. And clearly there’s some issue there with Tai West, because then he goes, horror is such an important genre though, so he loves horror, but just doesn’t keep up with those movies. Anyway, I don’t know what’s going on there. I haven’t seen long. Like, yeah, I was doing it this week.

 

Ira Madison III I’m seeing Long Legs and Maxine this week I’m going to have my whole horror, moment at the cinema. But, I was one of the internet people, by the way, who was. I obviously love Anthony Perkins. You know, I’m not a Anthony Perkins, aficionado the way that you are.

 

Louis Virtel Some of us are.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, yes. Because I did not know about his mother dying.

 

Louis Virtel His his wife. His wife died in 9/11. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Well, his wife and, Osgood Perkins, his mother died.

 

Louis Virtel Barry Berenson. Correct. Sister of Marisa Berenson, who you probably know from Cabaret. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I went down a whole Berry Berenson, rabbit hole, you know? So, lots to learn. And her Barry Berenson mother. Elsa Schiaparelli.

 

Louis Virtel Crazy. Yes. The woman. The fashion designer known for shocking pink. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Like this whole web of where he is, descended from is like that. That’s. That’s beyond par, baby. That’s that’s, like iconic, like, lineage.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And his own father was a celebrated stage actor in the 30s. He died when Anthony Perkins was really young. But, yeah, it’s a, crazy family with tentacles of prestige. Also, it’ll separate directions.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So next week we’ll get into, longlegs versus Maxine, you know, so I can’t wait.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll be right back with our favorite section of the episode. Let’s keep it.

 

Ira Madison III We are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s keep it. Louis. Yes. What are you angry about today?

 

Louis Virtel What am I pissed about? My favorite 90s word. Pissed. I was also just talking about. Do you know what I think is the definitive 90s mood word moron? Calling somebody a moron? Do you remember that? That was it. That’s. That’s how I got through middle school.

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of pissed, also, the way that, it means something different and like UK slang, like, like you’re getting pissed. Like getting drunk. Oh, I was with a friend recently, and I was singing along to, for some reason, Chumbawamba. Okay. And they discovered for the first time that the lyric was pissing the night away.

 

Louis Virtel Right. There’s a lot going on in that song. Of course. Go ahead and do a deep dive on that with the dramaturg, because you’re gonna learn a lot. Anyway, my keep it this week is to a movie that I, didn’t entirely hate. I think, in fact, everybody should watch it. It’s the new Faye Dunaway documentary that came out on HBO that I was so excited to see. It has interviews with Faye Dunaway, which is rare enough. It also has interviews with her son, which is actually an interesting component of the movie. He’s been like a champion of his mother and somebody who I think has helped her through a lot of mental health issues, which are enumerated in the movie. We talk the movie talks about how she is bipolar, which had never been disclosed before, and you also get a real a good but kind of cursory look at all the amazing movies she’s been a part of over the years, from Bonnie and Clyde to Chinatown to network. And then an interesting discussion of Mommie Dearest. But I do ultimately have to say keep it to this movie because. They use the word difficult to describe Faye Dunaway a lot, and that word does a lot of heavy lifting, like to cover a multitude of sins. And the fact is, she wasn’t just difficult, she. Faye Dunaway was the worst person to work with in entertainment history. There is no doubt about it. You will. Anybody who has ever worked with her has multiple stories of just crazy, demanding, impossible to placate, situations where they were at her mercy and she would also show up 1,000,000 hours late and stuff. And none of that is addressed in the movie. Other than she does say, like, oh, because of, you know, being bipolar, these mood swings take hold from time to time. And that is one explanation. But the amount of cruelty to random people, I don’t think is described well. And I do wish also that we had better insight into her as an actor, because she’s such an interesting actor. When you watch her in network, you’re like, well, this person was ready to play a psycho. The the choices are so eye popping and so ghoulish, but also engrossing. You know, she has this kind of ferocious, sort of like Jaguar like appearance as an actress, too, that you’re hit with a number of sensations when you watch Faye Dunaway. And that’s why she’s irreplaceable on screen, too. I do think the movie, one thing that it does is highlight the movie Barfly from the 80s with Mickey Rourke, where they play alcoholics, and that is just a wolf dance movie, with fabulous acting in it. And Mickey Rourke, has remained friends with Faye Dunaway ever since. But I do think we needed to get more insight into what she was as a force on these movie sets over the years.

 

Ira Madison III Barfly. I have not seen that.

 

Louis Virtel You have got to see that movie. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. It’s sounding like a John Patrick Shanley play. From 80s. But I’m seeing it was written by Charles Bukowski.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. Yes. So I mean that’s what you’re getting that kind of.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Well, I can’t wait. I will say that movies like, like, documentaries like this could always sort of benefit from at least one producer of someone asking questions of this person about their acting process. Because when you sort of get into the stories of, like, the salacious things or whatever, it’s like, that’s sort of what you want. Like my favorite thing about the music documentaries, you know, it’s sort of like when you when you hear something about how, like, Whitney and Clive were working together or when you talk like David Foster, I always go back to how fucking phenomenal I think that documentary is, you know, because you’re just hearing how much of an asshole he was, right? Everyone who was working with him is like, he’s an asshole, but he’s also a genius. And they talk about how he would create songs with them. And I think that’s sort of what you needed from a Faye Dunaway documentary.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s definitely. I was amused by the fact that apparently Jack Nicholson, at the time they were filming Chinatown, and thereafter to this day still calls her Dredd because people would try to work with her on set. Ira, what is your keep it this week.

 

Ira Madison III My Keep It this week goes to some tweet I saw probably from a minor.

 

Louis Virtel That’s always the first question. Are they 11?

 

Ira Madison III But people were agreeing with it within the responses and the quote tweets. And the tweet was something along the lines of. Don’t pretend like you knew who J.J. Abrams was before you heard of Gracie Abrams. And I want to say what the fuck to say.

 

Louis Virtel My soul has left my body after you said that is an understatement. What do you mean, you haven’t heard of J.J. Abrams? I want to be clear that Google is available. Go ahead and put the words into it. You’ll see that this person has been around and has been utterly unavoidable in pop culture in the past 25 years.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s not like he’s a random director too, or sort of an auteur director that only, like, film nerds would discuss. Like it’s J.J. fucking Abrams. Okay, so we know who he is. We know what he looks like. We know his shtick. We know JJ Abrams is always going to have somebody opening a box that leads to another box that leads to another box that leads to another box. Lost alias, by the way, lost is now streaming on Netflix. And if I have another keep it, it is. There’s a lot going on and so lost. But I’m tired of everybody just talking about the finale. Just about anything else. Yeah, there’s so much else going on in that show. And, fuck vulture for releasing an article that was sort of like, here are the episodes of lost that you can skip the whole point of bingeing a show that you haven’t seen before, and especially Netflix. You just go episode to episode, like, why are you even getting into the whole process of, I’m going to skip this episode or whatever, like, you just let it play.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Also, I mean, like ultimately you can’t recreate the feeling of watching that show during the time, which was, I mean, that took people on a roller coaster. They were enthralled. They became hyper fans, like people like it’s one of those shows where there’s no parallel. Like if you want to watch a show like that, you have to watch that show. So. I think The Hills and Valleys made you more obsessed with it, like the boring episodes or unnecessary episodes, I think add to the addiction in a good way.

 

Ira Madison III One of the insane finales I’m trying to remember which one, but, you know, it’s Locke in the In the Casket, aired the same night. That, sex and the city two premiered, in college, you know, sort of like the midnight screening of it. So, we did a double feature of the lost finale and sex and the city two, which probably broke my brain. That is why I’m the person I am now.

 

Louis Virtel To handle that. And then Lawrence of my labia. Yeah. I don’t think that’s fair. Human being shouldn’t have to deal with that. You made a mistake.

 

Ira Madison III By the way. Lost an alias, and then you throw in friends. Like not. It’s amazing show, which I love. And I love that pilot. It’s almost right at that caliber, but alias, lost two of the most perfect television pilots I’ve ever seen.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. No, I mean, alias is why Jennifer Garner has some unimpeachable. I mean, it all goes back to alias for her. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s not butter.

 

Louis Virtel Or, jelly. Telling love. Simon. Go ahead and breathe, bitch, or whatever she said. Right.

 

Ira Madison III Part of it also started going on 30. We can’t forget that.

 

Louis Virtel I am not a huge fan of 13 going on 30.

 

Ira Madison III That makes sense for you. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And my joy free life. You got it.

 

Ira Madison III Is it a is it a teen movie from the 2000s or 20 tens that people love? Louis hates it.

 

Louis Virtel No. Don’t even start with me on easier. Don’t even start.

 

Ira Madison III I know that is what I was referencing. You loathe that movie?

 

Louis Virtel No, absolutely, I simp, I had it, yes.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway. J.J. Abrams.

 

Louis Virtel Exists.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. He exists.

 

Louis Virtel I told you I interviewed him once, really quickly at an event, and. Well, I asked him about his favorite film moment of all time, and he picked something from your window, and then I mentioned I was like, oh, we any anything with Edith Head costumes in it? And he talked about how as a teenager, he wrote a play about Edith Head because she was the only people who could make fat people look cool on screen. And he was like a fat teenager. It was like a very interesting insight into him. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Can we see that from him?

 

Louis Virtel What? Love, please. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III He is a celebrity who I love, a director who I like. I really enjoy him. Like he has a lot of good. Well built up from me, from the shit he’s done that I love. But I would love for him to start making more interesting choices again.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Please. Yeah. Do the small prestige things. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And Gracie Abrams. I guess we’re stuck with her now.

 

Louis Virtel Apparently she’s good. I don’t know, not really my thing.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. The albums. Okay. You know, so I the funniest thing you’ve ever seen is the song with Taylor Swift called us, is a video that they released of them coming up with the song, coming up with the song. It’s just like them singing at each other, like lyrics. It’s like a scene from a movie where people are creating a song, like fucking music and lyrics with Hugh Grant and Drew Barrymore or something, and it’s like, this was not when you made this song, but congrats.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, by the way, nothing wrong with the movie music and lyrics with Hugh Grant and Drew Barrymore. I love that pairing.

 

Ira Madison III Absolutely not.

 

Louis Virtel There is something wrong with Taylor Swift and Gracie Abrams doing that, though.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t want to see that. Yeah. All right, that’s our show this week.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll be back next weekend. I guess we’re talking about long legs. I have to get to the theater.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Use that AMC A-list.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, you think I’m not on it? Please. If there were a physical card, I would be carrying it and flashing it.

 

Ira Madison III Love getting in that yellow line. And then them calling up A-list people and the other people in the regular line, sort of looking at you like, the fuck do they think they’re doing it?

 

Louis Virtel And the answer is getting an Icee faster than you.

 

Ira Madison III Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Chris Lord and our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, Louis Virtel and Kendra James.

 

Louis Virtel Our digital team is Meghan Patsel, Claudia Shang, and Rachel Gaeiski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every day.

 

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