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Louis Virtel is joined by comedian/actress Ivy Wolk to react to Coachella’s first weekend with notable performances by Sabrina Carpenter and Justin Bieber. They also discuss the season 3 premiere of HBO’s Euphoria and unpack the varying levels of stardom the likes of Zendaya, Sydney Sweeney and Jacob Elordi have achieved after Euphoria’s first season all the way back in 2019. Louis is also joined by Paul Walter Hauser to discuss his new film “Balls Up” which is streaming now on Prime Video.

TRANSCRIPT

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel. I’m not a Coachella. I have to tell you, it’s too early in the year to get that dusty. Girl, I’m showering that often. I’m back here in glorious LA. And guess who else is? My co-host this week, somebody I fucking adore, who is like the new, I have say, like podcast grandmaster. Every time I see you on a podcast, I’m like, here she is, like the Bobby Fischer of talking. Ivy Wolk is here.

 

Ivy Wolk Hi Louis, thanks for having me!

 

Louis Virtel I am so psyched, I’m so psyched!  And also, like, you’re strangely like an old movie queen, too.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah yeah i kind of where they’re not in not to the extent that you are on it’s because i’m michael i’m a long time was there for some cars this is exciting for me but not to extent that u r but i think for somebody my age yet

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No, we need you. Like my industry is failing.

 

Ivy Wolk Although there are like surprisingly a lot of there’s an entire like subsect of Gen Z Twitter That’s like lesbians with like and Bancroft fan pages.

 

Louis Virtel Okay!

 

Ivy Wolk So there’s like a lot of like they’re like Lauren Bacall was like so gay in this movie Like there’s a lot like kind of retconning of these classic movie stars Like they’re reimagined into sort of like lesbian worlds with one another Yeah, and people my age are like running these Accounts on the internet and that to me none of it makes any sense So I’m not I’m, not so in deep or like I can understand what they are saying Yeah, there are people of my generation like leading the charge on I guess like what you’ve worked your whole life for sure

 

Louis Virtel Sure, but you’re saying they’re they’re like lightly radicalized. They’re like yeah, you know like Lauren McCall could fuck this whole room of women Yeah

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, basically, like their kind of view of that whole like scope of the industry was that like all of these actresses were like, the subtext of all of their movies was that it was like virulently gay and they were all fucking each other behind the scenes and now like these girls make like fan cams that you would see for like Cat’s Eye or like, I don’t know, like Addison Rae, but like it’s, I don’t know, the whole cast of like The Pumpkin Eater is like that.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, the fact that you even just said those words, Ivy Wolk. Oh my God, my heart jumped.

 

Ivy Wolk Who is like making up the fan cam? It’s very curious. I if I find those accounts I will send them your way because I think you would get great joy from it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, thank you. You’re exactly right. Now, first of all, we have a connection, which is that I work with your dad every day He is a censor at Jimmy Kimmel live and you I’m sure as a kid like visited the studio at some point.

 

Ivy Wolk I did, yeah, I met Demi Lovato there when I was maybe five, um, before like she, I guess before like it came out that she was like unraveling at the seams, which I’m sure I was able to.

 

Louis Virtel You kickstarted that?

 

Ivy Wolk I was able to kind of pick up on that I think subconsciously and that was what drew me to her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk As it always does, I believe. Oh, I met Lin-Manuel Miranda there, like.

 

Louis Virtel I’m gonna say he’s not your vibe. How interesting. Other than bringing up actresses of the past.

 

Ivy Wolk Right, well I was like a real, like Hamilton was like a big, a big moment for me.

 

Louis Virtel Sure. And the world.

 

Ivy Wolk In the world by Hamilton was particularly like if you are in I guess I was in like seventh grade when that came out like Hamilton was like if your in like a public school theater program That’s like falling apart at the seams you’re gonna Love Hamilton because it’s sort of it has like there’s something about Hamilton that has like a Public School ethos that like I don’t know Like exactly what it is, but it’s like teachers trying to make things interesting But they don’t have like the facilities for it the bear sets sort of mirrored like a school with crumbling infrastructure Yeah, right just like

 

Louis Virtel Wow, you’re really putting me there. Yeah. That’s vivid.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, there was just something about Hamilton like I really it was really sticky to me and I’m

 

Louis Virtel the best received pep assembly of all time. You know? Yeah. Like the teachers really giving it their all.

 

Ivy Wolk Everybody was very happy to be there. Yeah. And for many years, they were happy to be there quite even after like Hamilton, sort of the, the like Obama era mysticism of Hamilton, like war off. Everybody was still very happy to be their people still are probably like packing out their whatever theater it’s at still, is it still open in New York, like the Richard Rogers or whatever it is still, it’s like people are still packing that to the gills every evening.

 

Louis Virtel No, when I saw Renee Elise Goldsberry in person for like I hadn’t I mean like she was great in Girls 5 of a but like seeing her I was like it took me back to seeing Hamilton and I forgot I had that like uh you know that kind of experience where it really really stuck with me.

 

Ivy Wolk It exists within all of us and it’s like kind of like a sleeper cell like activation where something triggers it and then all of a sudden you’re like ready to carry out liminal Miranda’s like subliminal message.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely, precisely. No, you actually already brought up Cassey and Addison Rae. So we have to talk about Coachella being kickstarted this weekend. Do you care about live music at all? Will I see you at a live music event? You seem so, shall we say, cerebral and smart that I feel like you maybe couldn’t go for it.

 

Ivy Wolk I care about live music in so far as like I care about the people that I like performing live music. I’ve seen Morrissey three times. Get out.

 

Louis Virtel Get out. I used to get called by literally homeless people on the street, Morrissey.

 

Ivy Wolk Woah. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s a forehead thing. I’m positive.

 

Ivy Wolk The fact that they like had that reference in their arsenal means that at one point he was relevant enough for Anybody to bring that out and I want to live in that world. I’m sad that I missed it. Um But I’ve seen more I see three times I saw acid bath of like the Brooklyn Paramount like last year acid bath is like a sludge metal band from the 90s They had like one or two albums and then now they’re like on a revival tour They sound the same as they did on the records. Oh I Who else have I seen? Oh, I like had tickets to see Three Six Mafia and Bone Thugs in Harmony in Long Island, but then the show was canceled because Bone Thug and Harmony is like really bad at showing up to things.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve heard that yeah. Yeah, so I didn’t get to see that the Oscar-winning three-six mafia

 

Ivy Wolk The Oscar winning Three 6 Mafia, of course. Um, I, my favorite concert that I’ve seen recently was I saw DJ Spanish Fly, Le Chat, and Tommy Wright III at this like little venue in Brooklyn. Those are Memphis rappers from the 90s. Um, which is sort of like my favorite genre of music.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay!

 

Ivy Wolk Um, and that was amazing, but like that wasn’t, I’ve never seen anything, I guess, to the scope and scale of Coachella. I’ve been to a music festival. Um, I think I am somebody that gets really scared at the thought of potentially getting lost in an unfamiliar environment.

 

Louis Virtel I feel the same way. I have no sense of direction, especially in places like that where then you also don’t have phone service, etc.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, so I don’t understand, I guess, how people find their way around Coachella. Like that’s kind of all I think I would be thinking about the entire time.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, let’s just say the people aren’t at their sharpest in that place either. So it’s like, I don’t know where I’m ending up if I’m gonna find the Uber, et cetera.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, I just I don’t understand I guess the mechanism of it because like there are so many stages to my Understanding and they’re all like shows are happening concurrently and it’s just like a mass of people in a sand dune Yeah, it’s like how does every like truly the way my mind works is I’m like, okay And how do you understand what time everything starts and how you get from point A to point B?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, but no, I feel the same way. That said, there are a lot of people actually this year, like I would say Sabrina Carpenter is maybe my favorite current pop star. I crave pop stars who are even a little bit funny. And I think she is usually a lot funny. You know, like I, in a way, like it makes me think about how once upon a time Katy Perry was considered like the funny pop star and now it’s like, this girl’s like three times as funny as she was.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, I always say that I think that Sabrina is the real Katy daughter, but she’s like doing the Katy thing in a better, more clever and streamlined way because Katy could get really kind of all akimbo at times. The Katy records that we herald as like the greatest like pop moments of like the late 2000s, early 2010s, really if you listen to them in full, like the are iconic, the album runs that she had were a disaster.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say like the things that aren’t on the Teenage Dream album, which has some of the biggest singles ever It’s like a Paula Abdul Forever Your Girl. We couldn’t stop giving her number one hits Everything else on the album is like oh I can tell what you’re supposed to release and what you are not supposed to release

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, because she was trying like a heady indie rock thing on that album at times too and it just does, it doesn’t stick for her, especially like not with like the dissonance of the hard pop that she was doing at the same time, it’s just they don’t go together.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ivy Wolk I will say one of the boys her debut album is one of my favorite pop albums of all time I do believe we would not have Olivia Rodrigo or any of that ilk if we did not have Katy Perry’s one of The Boys

 

Louis Virtel People forget the You’re So Gay era.

 

Ivy Wolk I mean, just like, and that’s like, that’s Sabrina where it’s like it’s funny, it’s flagrant, it’s kitschy, and Sabrina is just sort of honing the mess that Katie sort of like splayed onto the canvas and she’s kind of streamlining it now. But I mean I remember like when Sabrina was like collaborating with Christina Aguilera like two years ago.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, what did she do? It was when Christina did that revamp of GD in a bottle and stuff? Yeah, and they did like- Oh, they did what a girl wants. Yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, and they did like a Vivo Lounge cover of What a Girl Wants.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve never heard something shadier that it was a Vivo Lounge cover.

 

Ivy Wolk A Vivo Lounge cover. And great things have come from the Vivo lounge. Sure.

 

Louis Virtel Sure, maybe me, maybe you.

 

Ivy Wolk Maybe me, maybe you, but I know a lot of people at that time were saying that they reckoned that Sabrina was the Christina daughter, which really doesn’t make any sense at all. I think they just saw them in the same room together and realized they were both blonde and said, let’s go with this.

 

Louis Virtel With this. No, Christina Aguilera is somebody who, I mean, she’s obviously extremely talented. She’s like as good as you can be while being a sixth place American Idol contestant. She’s here to belt and like you throw a standard her way and she can do it. But she’s not like, she doesn’t have the Madonna like through line career ambition.

 

Ivy Wolk Ambition no she doesn’t have the career ambition she also doesn’t have like the influences no she’s just not really she’s not she’s not recalibrating and remixing what comes in pop culturally yeah I see Aguilera you know she was good for her time

 

Louis Virtel Certainly. We love Christina. And probably still sounds great.

 

Ivy Wolk Probably still sounds great, and she looks 22 years old.

 

Louis Virtel No, she’s shocking.

 

Ivy Wolk Something crazy happened to her.

 

Louis Virtel I will say about Sabrina Carpenter though, I do feel like people need to have a meeting about what Coachella is because, and by the way, watching the feeds on YouTube, a total pleasure in a way where I feel bad for the people there because it’s so designed for the the people at home. When you’re watching it, it’s like, I’m seeing the entire set, I’m saying, you know, her kind of micro, kind of silent film star expressions she likes to do on stage. But at the same time, I feel like Coachella not VMA performances. And when I’m watching Sabrina, I like, Does this really belong there? Because when I think of Coachella, I do think you need to have a rugged, me-against-the-elements kind of vibe when you’re on stage in the desert.

 

Ivy Wolk Which is what the Bieber performance kind of was.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. So are you a fan of that?

 

Ivy Wolk I really like it my best friend is a performance artist in new york and she just did a show that she ran here in new York and in london where she’s in front of her computer and she’s reading everything that she tweeted in twenty twenty five with accompanying essays about every month of her life and it was four hours long it’s like a real endurance probably

 

Louis Virtel Wow, like some Laurie Anderson shit, yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, it was fucking amazing though, and it got like really great reviews and but she’s sitting at a desk like Bieber was with the laptop projecting right behind her head and She like did a side-by-side of Bieber’s setup versus her setup, but it looks the exact same So when I watch Bieber’s thing, I was like, wow, he’s like really he’s on the Mackenzie Thomas Like he’s doing the Mackenzi Thomas. Oh, I wasn’t happy about it.

 

Louis Virtel We think nefariously?

 

Ivy Wolk No, no, I mean, I think I think there’s like a maybe it was on the mood board, but also I think like I think Justin Bieber is the moodboard is not even something that he’s tuned into. Yeah. I think he really is just like living his cloudy headed truth and he’s not really like he’s not taking the time to like put a Pinterest folder together or anything like that. I think he has sort of other problems together like in the morning.

 

Louis Virtel So, yeah. No, here’s the thing. It sounds like you appreciate his performance then, because I have to tell you, watching it back, I don’t think there’s an entertainer alive who is less marketed to gay men. Like when I watch it, I may as well be watching Crop Circles. Like I have no idea what was supposed to happen, if this is what he wanted. Right. And also the vibe to me is I hate everyone. Yes. Which by the way, probably earned. I am certain people have treated him like garbage since he was a child. Yeah. But you love it.

 

Ivy Wolk To my read, Justin Bieber like really titillates the straight men in my life. The straight guys that don’t play about like a Cuban link chain. Like the straight, the white straight guys.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my best friends. Yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, the white straight guys that really don’t play about like a little necklace under the t-shirt Justin Bieber activates them in a really amazing way in a way where you think that it would almost be Sort of gay because he’s been like kind of a teen sex Idol a pinup for like many years of his career But I think at this point in his like father and husband like crashing out on the parking lot era I think it’s not gay at all for straight guys to look up to him so much. Totally. There’s no like homo-sociality in it. It’s just kind of like, it’s just, he’s like a muse. He’s like how free they wish that they could be at their like nine to five.

 

Louis Virtel No, he also has that like thing that I think straight men worship most, which is the no time for bullshit thing. So it’s like, like there’s nothing he’s doing on stage. That is like remotely obligatory or pandering.

 

Ivy Wolk He trims he trims the fat. Yeah, really? Yeah

 

Louis Virtel Down to his body, he looks like Christian Bale in The Machinist.

 

Ivy Wolk I know, I know. But he’s still, he’s still cute. Um, he just like, yeah, I think like straight guys like him because he sort of embodies like a curtness and a freedom that they wish they could bring into their nine to five jobs, at least like the straight guys that I know in New York who really are like, I use a job that you can’t. Like the ones who really are bumping that in their headphones on the train, like they wish that they could tell their bosses off the way that he told the paparazzi he was standing on business in that parking lot.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Now, okay, to bring it back to gay things. Addison Wright, which by the way, I guess I’m just supposed to call her Addison now.

 

Ivy Wolk She’s not, she dropped the ray.

 

Louis Virtel Mostly. Drop the ray of cleaner. Yeah, but when you say you’re Addison, I’m not thinking of Kate Walsh on Grey’s Anatomy.

 

Ivy Wolk Right or just like anybody? Yeah

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Oh, you’re 11 years old? Right. Yeah. But anyway, how does she resonate with you? Because she’s somebody where I thought, I like the record okay, the artistry, I don’t know what it is, but then I watch her at Coachella and I have to say, she is weirdly a live act, even though I get disappointed when people are like, one, she’s the new Madonna. It’s like, okay, so you’re blind. Not true.

 

Ivy Wolk Charlie’s the new Madonna.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, the rowdiness of it. Charlie’s almost the new ginger spice.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, you know, I think Charlie is the Madonna daughter because like they understand subculture and bringing subcultures into the mainstream in a really specific way.

 

Louis Virtel It’s so nice of you to not use the word appropriating. Thank you so much. I would not use. Because Madonna’s whole thing is every three years, I’m Asian.

 

Ivy Wolk Right. Well, Anne, as is her right, sometimes a girl can wake up and choose to be fucking Asian.

 

Louis Virtel Right?

 

Ivy Wolk Period. But yeah, Addison, I really love Addison. Because I was on TikTok in her early days of TikTok. So like, I was seeing her as a girl that was like lip syncing to like audios of babies eating ice cream. And like kind of like really like Sydney Sweeney, the season of Euphoria style debasing herself on the internet for just like unfettered constant attention. Seeing this like turn of her kind of like tapping into her like more art pop sensibilities, it feels so, it felt as we were watching it happen, so out of character and unbelievable, but now it almost feels so embodied that you have to sort of, the narrative of Addison is that she wants to put forth and that we have to buy into to listen to the music is that. This was the girl that was inside her all along and that when she was like you know doing the renegade dance or like i don’t know lip syncing to some like a scene from 10 things i hate about you in like a pair of skinny jeans that that was like a put on or that that was her just trying to like get her family out of the hood or whatever she’s like you know however she kind of puts it yeah and so i think that narrative she’s already sort of building a pop narrative for herself this early. Which is really interesting to me. And it’s definitely not, it’s like a weird spin on the like child star to pop girl, bad girl pop star narrative.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no, because it’s not like, um, flagrant and like a Miley Cyrus when she hit that stage, but it’s like, it does feel artful in a way. I’m actually, I’m appreciative of how, um you’ve described her because to me she’s almost like a dream or I try to describe her and it disappears. You know, it’s, like, I can’t exactly say what she did amazingly, but I, it’s transfixing and all the songs feel authored by her in a way, even just spiritually. I don’t know what she’s actually doing to produce the record, But it does feel good. But it does feel good.

 

Ivy Wolk She has this sort of enigmatic Britney type of thing going on with her where, yeah, you just are kind of transfixed by the image of her and how she’s managed to string it together. And on the stage, she has this like kind of Britney-esque fluidity. Fluidity is right, yes, yeah. Where it just, it feels like, it feel real. And also like her public image is one of like. Unfettered joy and like kind of like classic fifties pin-up sex appeal yes she has she very like betty page is definitely on the mood board for her all of those kind of calendar girl she’s

 

Louis Virtel Oh, she’s definitely posing with her hands behind her head. Yeah. Like, tits out.

 

Ivy Wolk I mean she’s like on her Instagram like licking her hand wearing cat ears with like her like a six inch heel Flicked up behind her and the caption will be like mommy’s happy with you Brazil and it’s like it’s something that’s like It’s so true. It’s strange the way that she’s curated herself but like the narrative of her is that this was inside of her all along even when she was like basic even when he was like working hard for the money on and like she is now like Her narrative is now that she is like a real artist but it doesn’t feel. I guess it doesn’t feel so put upon, because sometimes when somebody, I have a problem when pop stars do, every time they launch a new era, they’re like, this is the most me I’ve ever been. Miley does this every year, where she’s like, this is most me that I’ve been, my last albums were terrible, I’m a real artist now. And it doesn’ feel that Addison is doing a thing like that, or like Doja Cat, where she is like, everything I’ve made prior was awful and not representative of my taste, and this is real me. It feels like Addison is like. The narrative is that she’s like iterative but she’s not ashamed of the past of her nor is she like doing a retrospective is if she’s a hundred years old every time

 

Louis Virtel No, she’s also just obsessed with pop music. So I feel like she’s very grateful to put out records. Yes. You know, whereas like Miley Cyrus just has that, I mean, I hate to say it, nepo thing, where she’s like, which I appreciate generally, which is like, I could take her leave fame. So like doing any of this, she could be on the fence about, no, I look forward to what Addison does in the future, because she really impressed me with this record. But anyway, there’s one other thing I have to say about Coachella that we’ll get to in my keep it. Well, I live a foreboding keep it, we’ll see what happens.

 

Ivy Wolk Amazing

 

Louis Virtel Elsewhere in this episode, we’re gonna talk about the new season of Euphoria, which is such a jarring experience because I can’t think of one other television show.

 

Ivy Wolk Hello?

 

Louis Virtel That is centered in high school that came back all these years later in a totally different milieu, basically.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s nuts. Yeah, it’s nuts I like have like a page of notes in my phone that I would like to reference as we have this please please um and then also like I did I did message you about the thing that I do want you to help me kind of Thread the needle on yes Sydney Sweeney’s connection to Shelly Duvall and Elizabeth Taylor and I always have to throw Lindsay Lohan in there as well so we can sort of we can discuss what I have but

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah, no, hopefully we won’t devolve into only a conversation about three women or McCabe and Mrs. Miller or the, the movies of Shelley Duvall.

 

Ivy Wolk I can’t home this.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, don’t worry about that. But also, even though you are a deeply exciting person, we have another deeply exciting actor here today. I just spoke with Paul Walter Hauser, who’s in the new movie Balls Up. Remember, picture me saying the word balls up.

 

Ivy Wolk How does it feel?

 

Louis Virtel It’s wild.

 

Ivy Wolk Wild. Yeah. But wonderful.

 

Louis Virtel And then the balls you expect too, there’s like a scrotum storyline in this, but anyway, he is fucking fabulous We talk about anything and everything and that is our episode. We’ll be back with Ivy Wolk and more Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Much like Scooby-Doo and the Mystery Machine, HBO’s Euphoria returned this weekend with Zendaya and her hapless crew of young fuck-ups uniting for another season of grungy, drug-fueled drama. Ivy, how much were you anticipating this season’s return?

 

Ivy Wolk I have a complicated relationship with Euphoria because it has been, I mean the first season of Euphoria came out when I was 15 years old.

 

Louis Virtel I cannot get over it. The last season of this show came out four years ago. Do you know how many movies Jacob Elordi has made since then? The answer is nine. Nine movies.

 

Ivy Wolk No, like some people and Sydney Sweeney 7,082

 

Louis Virtel Right, and different credits of different kinds. Of course, yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Of course, yeah, it’s just like the the way that these watching these people’s like stars rise Outside of the context of the show and like in the interim has been Really interesting. I don’t remember like the last time at least in my lifetime of like paying attention to pop culture people became so meteorically famous after the launch or something. Like I even think about like other big HBO shows, it’s like Succession, it’s they still got Sarah Snook doing Peacock miniseries about a son going missing. It’s like.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. You know, Matthew McFadden’s on whatever. Yeah

 

Ivy Wolk The miniature wife. Yes, he sure is. Also for Peacock, it’s like sometimes these things just don’t take the way that you think that they will, even if the show is extremely famous. Even if the shows is on everybody’s lips and minds, it’s the people in them sometimes don’t immediately strike and go on to have insane careers. But it seems like everybody on Euphoria, because there was so much time in between, was just set free by HBO to go to their own devices and do whatever they wanted? And so we’re now seeing like, Jacob Elordi, Sidney Sweeney, and Zendaya have these like massive fucking careers. And they’re coming back to this thing that really like, rose their- all of their stars, and it’s really interesting. It’s just interesting to like, understand the scopes of their careers. From I guess, how many years ago did Euphoria season 1 come out? Was it 2019? So 7 years? It was 2019, so seven years?

 

Louis Virtel She won her first, I mean, during the pandemic, 2020, so it must be 2019. Yeah, 2019.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, 2019 was when it came out. So it’s like the past seven years of these people’s careers, we’ve watched Blossom because of this show and then in between and outside of this show and we’ve watch the controversies of this show, sort of at times usurp the rising star of the people on it. And so it’s just like, there’s all these things happening. And so when you sit down and you watch the third season of before There’s absolutely no way to watch it devoid of the context around it, there’s no way to just watch it for what it is, especially now because this season basically has nothing to do with the narratives of the first two.

 

Louis Virtel No, it may as well be an entirely different show. In fact, do you know what it felt like to me is once upon a time you used to have things like, like reunions of TV shows that were like long canceled. To me, this literally feels like a very Brady Christmas where it’s like we had six seasons of the Brady Bunch and then let’s see what they’re up to now. Oh, they’re all still alive. We love it.

 

Ivy Wolk It feels like a reboot in a really strange way. Yeah, it’s just like, there’s no way to view this without also in your head viewing everything that has happened meta-textually and like interspersedly throughout the past seven years. And so there’s just no pure way to watch Euphoria, but I think maybe that ultimately, the way it was I think with like The Idol where it’s like, that’s the point, the discourse is the point. I honestly think, I think euphoria is the appointment television that we deserve. Yeah. Um, it’s not the appointment, television that may be like we would want to have, but it’s, it, because of our bad behavior over the past seven years, as a nation, it it’s what we get. It’s what’s thrust upon us.

 

Louis Virtel That said, I am, I think, most pleased to see Sidney Sweeney back in this environment because I feel like we have just like test driven her in so many different markets now.

 

Ivy Wolk And has anything stuck? No!

 

Louis Virtel Again, it’s like, she had that huge, that anyone but you rom-com. And it’s, like, she was so not suited for that, weirdly. She’s not somebody who wants to meet your folks and have, again, I call that Jennifer Aniston core. You can do that. No, she’s the opposite of that.

 

Ivy Wolk Sydney Sweeney operates at her highest frequency when she is being humiliated beyond belief. Yeah, right. Which is why I think she was really excellent in that movie about reality winner, that like HBO TV movie about Reality Winner, because that entire movie basically hinges on a woman who’s just like trying not to unravel from embarrassment while her entire life crumbles in real time. And it’s similar with her as Cassie on Euphoria where like the best work that Sweeney does is when she is like tied to some sort of real life circumstance of humiliation. Granted, like Euphoria is not based on a true story, of course, but it’s like the sort of outside text of her kind of humilation and foibles and controversies. I think like when she steps back into that Cassie outfit, she’s like, this is, it all hinges on this because otherwise I’m completely embarrassed. But there’s something about Siddy Sweeney where she’s kind of like an amuse of the past or like her. Her, like, the humiliation bolsters the narrative around her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. People are talking, and so, you know. People are taking. We keep feeling like we’re supposed to think this is a big star.

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, we’re supposed to think this is big star also like the positions that she the compromising position she’s being put in on this show and the way that she is sort of in Sam Levinson’s hands kind of like shameless and unfettered is really strange because she doesn’t really exactly have that unhinged quality and everything else that she does.

 

Louis Virtel No. No, no.

 

Ivy Wolk But when she is behind or in front of his camera, she can like unravel herself and kind of get herself down to like the basest, nastiest, most easily embarrassable places that she otherwise is not really capable of when other people are shepherding her.

 

Louis Virtel Well, you know what’s interesting is speaking of like having like actual character actress energy I still think her best credit is the White Lotus and I have to say and I don’t mean to be like Dispiraging towards her talent, but it’s like that’s kind of where I prefer her in the cast list Yeah, like, you don’t like part of a larger ensemble where she could be a little bit more I’m gonna call it Christina Ricci. Yeah are a little more Natasha Leon. Yeah, where it’s there’s some there’s like nasty humor

 

Ivy Wolk There’s a sardonicism to it.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, sardonic like bring this because if she’s too far up on the cast list it gets a little mad and web like like i don’t know that we have the energy or the stamina to keep this whole thing going

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, her choices, her resume is a strange reflection of her id, like it really is just like her choices in between seasons of Euphoria are really curious. It was like, and we started with White Lotus, and we were like, we’re all in on this girl, this is the new darling of prestige television, and then of sort of like kind of campy. Prestige television where it’s like i mean the whole thing with the white lotus is that it truly is just like a gay guy wants to go on vacation and so he’s like who can who would be fun to be in france but

 

Louis Virtel Right, no, the opposite of Adam Sandler, straight guy on vacation with all his friends. Exactly, exactly.

 

Ivy Wolk Exactly, exactly. And that’s what Mike White is, but it’s like the patina over it or like the veneer over it is that it’s like a prestige drama.

 

Louis Virtel Right, and Abbeys will rain on it. Of course.

 

Ivy Wolk Of course of course, but like really it is just a gay guy was like let’s go on vacation and do like grown-ups, too But for us.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right.

 

Ivy Wolk And so that and so she fits really well in something like that or something like euphoria where it is like Euphoria has the HBO stamp on it, but like you pay attention to it is a low culture Yeah, like you for it is it’s like a slop trough of like exploitation tropes rehashed Through like the lens of a straight guy who like just loves when like tits bounce like he has From watching this first episode my thoughts are all over the place. I apologize, but when I my immediately the setting of this first episode being like straight all in on the American West. I was like, okay, so he’s like biting from the Quentin Tarantino nacho plate. He’s just like, it’s like all these things where it’s Quentin Tarentino’s work is like exploitation tropes of the past sort of through his own point of view. And Sam Levinson I think is doing Quentin tarantino’s view of exploitation movies from the seventies and eighties. He’s like, what if I put the Tarantino glasses on over my Sam Levinson glasses and then that’s how he’s viewing. It’s like through so many different channels

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it feels like a bit of a contrived version of GRIP. I do think what kind of saves Euphoria generally though is you’re right, even though it’s like this endurance course of like horrible events, like plot-wise or whatever, I do you think it is more than most things we get an acting show. Like you’re watching these people like basically survive the characters they’ve been given in addition to just the plot themselves. Like again, it’s Jacob Elordi, I’m sorry, is amazing. And this scene he had with Sidney Sweeney, I was like, he still has this like kind of It’s intimidating. And by the way, it’s crazy to watch old footage. I mean, like he was like, it looked like he wasn’t getting his first communion the last time he was on the show.

 

Ivy Wolk But Jacob Elordi sometimes taps into a thing of, there’s a thing that I can pick up in male actors sometimes where I feel like they have been, like they were taught that the only good male performance ever is Marlon Brando in Streetcar. I, well we hear it all.

 

Louis Virtel Well, we hear it all the fucking time when letterbox gets to them and they’re like, oh yeah, it’s always that or maybe a little Denzel or something, but the same kind of hardness

 

Ivy Wolk Where it’s yeah, it’s it’s a constant kind of unending hardness It’s a very I noticed this was uh paul mescal and hamnet too where it’s like they think that like the apex of acting as a man Is a forward point. Yes, right where this and like the neck jutting with the pointing is the choice that they think connotes Like a a deepness or a cerebralness. Yeah, and it’s or like an intense a secret intensity And that is disturbing to me always because I always am like boys like let’s snap out of that Yeah, let’s nap out of there.

 

Louis Virtel Because it’s not emotional. It’s not.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s not emotional, it’s contrived.

 

Louis Virtel And also, well, the thing is, straight men worship serious straight men. You know, like the obsession with Jack Nicholson is about like, I’m hard as fuck, right? So it’s like, in a way, the acting choices you make, even if they’re suitable to the scene, are about those fans who are like you.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, it’s it is it’s like stacking signifiers of male performance on top of each other. So there’s times where I watch

 

Louis Virtel Ooh, the semiotics of this, I love it. Yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, you had the right pitch on the show. There’s times when I like watch Jacob Elordi in the first episode of this where I’m like, he is just, there’s things that he’s like kind of, I can see what the references were. I know what the reference were. That happened with Paul Mescal and Hamnet, like I said, there are times where I can just like really easily see through male performance. Yeah, the pretense of it, yeah. The pretense if the male performance where I am like, I know, what you watched before this to prepare. And I know that you’re just taking his exact moves. I’m like, that neck jut, I know where that came from. The fucking intense point next to the eyes, I know were that came form. It’s like, it just, it feels like some of the things.

 

Louis Virtel Criterion instacart they’re like here. I’m just going through my faves

 

Ivy Wolk It’s just like it feels like many things stacked on top of each other and while I think Jacob Elordi is a very talented actor there are times with him where I But I understand that he is like trying to be in service to that canon of men Yeah, he is trying to curate a career where people will speak about him that way one day.

 

Louis Virtel Do you have men you actually routinely like in movies? Because by the way, of course, who knows if I do. I can’t think of one right now.

 

Ivy Wolk And that’s the thing is like, I also can’t think of them all for it. I also can’t think of them all for it because men are so hit or miss for me, because I think men can be really easily swayed in bad directions. Like I, when I think of somebody like Adam Driver.

 

Louis Virtel I was going to bring him up in terms of somebody who left an HBO show, yes.

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, where it’s like, girls was and probably always will be his best performance.

 

Louis Virtel I have to agree because afterwards like the grit became the point and the grit wore him

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, the grit wore him. Yeah, the grip wore him whereas Lena allowed him to explore many different like shapes and forms of It was a really like weird idiosyncratic physical performance because it was like his first I’m taking my shoes off and I’m going fucking crisscross Okay, please Because like Lena allowed them to play in so many different, like weird shapes and forums he There’s like a the idiosyncrasy of that performance is like what’s at the fore and it’s like it’s soft. It’s hard It’s wacky. It’ weird The way he uses his body is like nothing else I’ve ever seen on screen.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah

 

Ivy Wolk Thereafter because I guess he is like large and imposing. He was kind of put in this position of being like an action or like sci-fi you know.

 

Louis Virtel Way too sci-fi and also way too Italian accent-y recently. Girl, did you see Ferrari?

 

Ivy Wolk I did not say Ferrari, but I am still reeling from House of Gucci.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No, likewise. Yes. And also Jeremy Irons, who used to be my favorite, is atrocious in that movie.

 

Ivy Wolk And House of Coochie is a fucking mess. Jared Leto needs to be like quartered in pound square for the full, the full that he played.

 

Louis Virtel Also, the anatomy of a fall courtroom, he needs to be in there, where people are throwing food at him from the sidelines.

 

Ivy Wolk So, yeah, but…

 

Louis Virtel No, we have to get to, but this is actually about the month of Zendaya, which, cause we just talked about the drama last week. Well, I have to say, it’s one of the few movies I’ve seen where we reviewed it last weekend. I would say my review this week would be different. Like it’s hanging on me differently. I don’t think you will relate to me this way. I feel like you always know exactly what you think immediately. Yeah. Yeah, so just be aware of that. But what do you think of her as Rue on this show? And by the way, she could be the first person to win. Emmys for every season of a drama, which has not happened before. People forget she has won two Emmys for you for it.

 

Ivy Wolk Right, yeah, yeah. I think she’s really excellent on this. There is like a weird, it’s just like the presence that she brings to Euphoria, something that you don’t see in her other roles at all. This sort of like wily, like long-haired butch lesbian type of thing that she does is like really curious. It’s something that she like, when she taps into it, it feels like really fully embodied and like really informed in a way where I’m like, I wonder. What in her life ever she was pulling from because I know they didn’t have wiley lesbians like this on shake it up

 

Louis Virtel But there’s just… And I starched.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, I searched. It’s like, I don’t know where she found this character in herself. I don’t know where’s she’s pulling from for it, but the stuff that she’s doing, like…

 

Louis Virtel Yet her bearing to steal a song, that lyric from, what is it? Fun Home. Yeah, your swagger and your swag.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, you’re Swagger and you’re Baring. Like truly, I don’t know where that comes from within her because it’s not ever something that she is really allowed to specifically play in that sort of like butch, kind of like run around, nastiness. She’s not really allowed to play in that mode in any of her film roles outside of Euphoria. And so it’s like watching her tap back into that. I mean, I always think of like, there’s a moment in season two, that was like, it sticks out to me so much where it’s like, Maddie like hugs, Alexa Demi as Maddie, like hugs her around the neck and she like leans in for the hug, but she has like her hands behind her back and she’s like kind of very like kind of gentlemanly like holding her hands behind her bag and there’s like a weird kind of like dandyism almost to the Zendaya in Euphoria that it’s just like a physicality that she doesn’t unearth in any of her other roles And that is what. Makes it continually interesting to me. But of course, like most, a lot of her work in Euphoria is just sort of like fourth wall breaking smirks and eyebrow raises to the audience, which I’m like, we can give her more to do than that. It’s a lot, she’s doing like this amazing physical performance and going to a lot of emotional heights. And I think especially in this season, we’ll see her at her stuntiest.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, sure, sure.

 

Ivy Wolk She already has been doing a lot of running and jumping in the past seasons of this show And I think we’re gonna see her you know hit her stride when it comes to stunts already that fucking car shit

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, speaking of Tarantino-y, like, yeah, whatever. Now, you’ve speaking of amazing physical performances, it’s worth noting that you’ve seen two of the best of the past five years in person, because you co-starred alongside Mikey Madison in a Nora. And I think somebody who should have won this year, Rose Byrne, and if I had legs, I’d kick you. Did you have takeaways from watching what they were doing on set? Because Rose Byrrne, to me, in that movie, I mean, that might be, Besides, Cate Blanchett and Tara are the best. Best Actress nominee of the past five years.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s amazing, it’s amazing. I mean, we’re getting to watch those performances up close. I think part of the reason why.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, you were fabulous in these movies.

 

Ivy Wolk Thank you. Thank you for playing the Jared Leto fool. I think… Absolutely.

 

Louis Virtel Absolutely not.

 

Ivy Wolk Which is always my I mean, that’s the thing is like hit dogs holler I was so offended by his performance in that movie because I saw myself in it

 

Louis Virtel That better not be the case.

 

Ivy Wolk But the Rose and Mikey, getting to watch those performances be built in real time was like un-fucking-believable. I think like part of the reason why I love acting so much is because I get to just like watch other women act in the room and then see how it cuts together and how the camera changes the performance. Cause like I… Get to see it happen in real life and I get to see them try things that sometimes I think like while I’m kind of viewing it, like I don’t know if that’ll work or how’s that gonna read and then like these are women who have, especially Mikey I think, have like very sort of like telepathic kind of connections with the camera where everything that they do is like kind of subconsciously for the filmic medium.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, they almost don’t have to make a choice. They’re just doing it. Yes, like they really

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, like they really they understand how the camera is going to pick them up at all times and it’s something that like I Am going to have to like hone and learn but that comes second nature to women like that where I get to watch it in The room and see how it plays face to face and then I get see How it looks when there’s a screen before it and there’s like that sort of like gap of viewership And that is like a joy to me. Like being able to watch a performance travel from the room to the screen is like, and knowing what I know about all forms of it, like all the way through, and having kind of a 360 view of what the performance is, is like the most fun of my life. Like getting to watch women act in person is like really what keeps me with it. Like truly, because like that is an unbelievable joy. Getting to see everything that ends up on the cutting room floor in person is like an unbelievable fucking joy and it’s the greatest education that I could ever have.

 

Louis Virtel I also feel like it makes you probably just appreciate editing too, like a part of me wants to believe that like, you know, when actors deliver a performance, it comes from the spiritual core and it just ends up on the screen. But it’s like, no, the choices that are made to get it on the scene, to deliver it. I mean, it’s

 

Ivy Wolk It’s editing.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a little bit like on America’s Next Top Model when it’s like, I wish, you sort of feel like they should be able to choose what photo of theirs gets presented, but they don’t. You know what I mean? Like an editor chooses. So it’s knowing what they’re delivering to the editor and what gets on the screen is fascinating.

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, that editing, understanding editing from like a closer perspective has been really a huge trip because yeah, there was just like, there’s things where I watch it, I watch things that I’ve been in and I’m like, I understand how a narrative has to be cobbled together after the fact and you have to just like take yourself out of it and your own kind of upset at what is chosen or what is not chosen out of because it is just in service of the full picture.

 

Louis Virtel It’s for it to make sense.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s for it to make sense and so there’s things where like moments of mine have been cut out of things or takes that I remember not feeling the best in have been the ones that end up in the final version and you have to kind of remove your own Fallen expectation from it while you’re watching it and just sort of like take yourself out of it and watch it from like an Objective like third-party point of view or else like you will literally get stuck on blaming it on the edit forever and that’s been really interesting. But yeah, like being able to watch Mikey do all of that with her body in person.

 

Louis Virtel Very physical performance. Isabel Huper just complimented that very thing, that she’s extremely physical.

 

Ivy Wolk And I know that was major for Mikey and I’m very happy for her. Um, yeah, I, the performance is like unbelievably guttural and physical and I really admire it. And I think Mikey has like a weird subconscious relationship with the camera where she just understands how she is to be captured implicitly. And getting to watch that all stages of that develop up close was like truly the way of my fucking life.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I’m so fucking glad to hear that.

 

Ivy Wolk But wait, I wanted to actually, because I did…

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes, we want to unpack Sidney Sweeney.

 

Ivy Wolk We want to unpack Sydney Sweeney. So I wrote I wrote in my notes, right this I’m just gonna read it And you can just commentate on it as you as you see fit Okay Sydney Sreeny is like Shelley Duvall where the epitects of her humiliation and exploitation Bolsters like the value or the mythos of the performance But also when have we seen a performance a performer’s sexual reputation be directly addressed in the text Lindsey Lohan comes to mind Also Liz Taylor and Butterfield 8 in Virginia Woolf

 

Louis Virtel Okay, well, I’ll say this. Shelley Duvall has a particular kind of brokenness. Like if I’m watching her in a movie, there’s almost a feeling that she’s being exploited. Which, and now I see what you mean when it comes to Sydney Sweetie, cause she’s like crawling on the bed and Sam Levinson just has this gross like carnival barker energy, you know, like P.T. Barnum kind of like, get on the bad sweetie kind of thing. That said, Shelley Duvall was somebody who. Almost subverted the role she was in because there was like a power to her weirdness, ultimately. And she was so captivating. You couldn’t keep your eyes off her. I feel like she, Sydney has actually less of an X factor than Shelley Duvall.

 

Ivy Wolk Oh, Sydney’s thing comes from her basicness being subverted into sexual exploitation. I think like when Sydney really is like, like the way people like to use her is like what if this like blonde busty tan all-American girl was like a junkie or a slut and she was like getting thrown down a flight of stairs. Like people like that she doesn’t have an inherent weirdness and so they have to make it from, they have make it, from seeing like how uh subjugated like this this beautiful bronzed busty lady can guess.

 

Louis Virtel She does have the same kind of gritty humor as Elizabeth Taylor. Yes. You know, like, oh, I’m screaming at you like this right now.

 

Ivy Wolk I do see like a lot of Liz in Sydney, which is as a staunch Liz Taylor fan is kind of upsetting. I mean maybe one day we will get like a Liz Sydney Sweeney identikit or a secret ceremony or something like that, but I’m not seeing it yet, but like I feel like the conversation on the internet about how Sam Levinson has quote unquote exploited or humiliated sexually Sidney Sweeney, calls to mind sort of like how… The discourse around Shelley Duvall in The Shining being exploited or under the thumb of Kubrick maybe bolsters the mythology of the performance, which in turn makes us think that it’s better or that it is stronger or more important. Which I mean, Shelley Duvall’s work in The Shinning is more important than anything Sydney Sweeney’s ever done, but at least up to this point, but…

 

Louis Virtel Well, it is, it’s also interesting because I feel like people are comfortable saying that like Sydney Sweeney isn’t a good actress, which is the same thing as Shelly Duvall, whereas at the time she was literally a Razzie winner for that performance and stuff, and it’s like, what, why did we want her to be bad? It feels like there’s this like effort on everybody’s part to like diminish what talent is there, you know?

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, yes, but then like after the fact we sort of see the the What we view is like the dregs of pain and humiliation that she had to get to to conjure performance like that and that sort Of adds another layer to how we view it as worthy or important in like a cinematic can.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, yes.

 

Ivy Wolk And I was also thinking of like how I feel like this season of Euphoria with Cassie being like an only as kind of like prop comedy only fans star

 

Louis Virtel Pretty broad, but they’re going for it, yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Is like I feel like that sort of directly addresses Sydney Sweeney’s like sexual image and reputation in, you know, broader discourse. And I was thinking about like who are actresses who they, their movies or like their filmography or whatever like starts to reflect how people speak about them in the broader context as sexual beings. And I thinking about Butterfield 8 and Virginia Woolf addressing like the Eddie Fisher and the Richard Burton relationships. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them in the comments section below. And I was also thinking about like, I feel like this happened with Lindsay Lohan, where like, something about Lindsay was like, in one way or another, for a very long time, she like kind of exclusively played twins, or like somebody with a bifurcated self, which sort of mirrored how- She knew who killed her, yes. Yes, she knew who kill her.

 

Louis Virtel She has her promise.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, yeah, it was just like there’s a lot of roles where she played twins or somebody kind of wrestling with like what could be a twin Like a bifurcated kind of sense of self where there’s the version they present to everybody Friday, it’s not a freaky Friday mean girls, etc. Even like you’re right. Yeah one of her recent Netflix movies is about a woman who like has amnesia and like has to like read

 

Louis Virtel That’s the one where she goes skiing or something? Yeah, yeah. That’s called she goes ski-ing. Yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, and so there’s like all these Lindsay movies where she is playing somebody who is kind of trying to figure out How they present and what their real self is whether it’s like manifested literally and like to her playing two people or if it’s like embodied in one person and so I was thinking about like how that sort of mirrors how like There was like the idea of the Lindsay that we all had where she was like the plucky wonderkins, like beautiful, new, talented thing. And then there was like this messier side that like slowly got revealed over time until it was like uncontrollable and how like these two selves of Lindsay, the public could not wrestle with because when we saw her be messy and drunk, it felt like she was failing the pure child self of her. And so we could never disentangle.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she couldn’t just go back to being the mean girls, like all American person.

 

Ivy Wolk Yes, we couldn’t disentangle our feeling of betrayal over how this like little girl led us all astray And I think we’re kind of seeing something similar happening with Sydney Sweeney on euphoria Where her kind of like constant the the discourse around her body and about her politics and all these things are sort of all Folding in on themselves for her to play this version of Cassie now

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, you unfortunately will have to discuss this with me the next time we’re on, because we have to get to the Keep It segment, unfortunately, so we will be right back, first of all, with my conversation with Paul Walter Hauser, and then we will do Keep It with Ivy Wolf.

 

Ivy Wolk Yay!

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel My next guest is a Golden Globe and Emmy-winning actor for his role in Apple TV Plus’s Blackbird. You’ve seen him in everything. From last summer’s reboot of Naked Gun to Richard Jewell, Cobra Kai, and Black Clansman, you can now catch him alongside Mark Wahlberg in the new film Balls Up, which is streaming globally on Prime Video Now. Please welcome the extremely versatile, the most versatile, Paul Walter Hauser.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Thank you, Louis. That was a really nice intro. Thanks, man.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my pleasure, my plesure. Okay, when I look at your filmography and every credit therein, it’s like everything is a clue and a mislead as to who you are. Like they have nothing in common. It’s like Ang Lee or Mike Nichols, like you just do everything and there’s no reason why. We just, we figure it out after the fact that you’re perfect for wherever you belong. And in this movie, which is probably the broadest comedy you’ve done. Oh yeah. Do you find getting broad laughs like that satisfying? Is this like scratching a new itch for you?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, no, it’s fun. You know, I have a comedy background. I did stand up comedy for over a decade, just in like the bar scenes in Chicago and Los Angeles. And, and I took classes at improv Olympic theater in Chicago. And I took one level of Upright Citizens Brigade, UCB theater in LA. So comedy is definitely my my forte and what I was brought up on. And then around the time I was 1012 years old, I started to get into drama and I started watch Jack Nicholson and Rob Reiner Films and Sidney Lumet. And I just became a little bit of a cinephile and now I just do whatever I think I can do well and I’m purposely genre agnostic because like Rob Reinyer, one of my heroes, he somehow did This Is Spinal Tap and A Few Good Men and Misery and Princess Bride. It’s like, these are totally different movies but they’re all tremendous so. As an actor, you hope to, you know, if Brad Pitt is like the steak or Kaplan Chet is the, you now, the branzino. I often am not a main course, but I think people put me in the food or on the plate because I’m like salt or garlic. I’m just gonna make this taste a little bit better. You can put a dash of me anywhere. And the hope is I show up and do a good job.

 

Louis Virtel Now, in a comedy this broad, there are lots of ways to get a laugh. Do you come in with multiple ideas for how to do a scene and then actually get to execute them all? Or do you stick with one comedy idea?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, I think it’s more about for this particular movie where I’m a little more of a straight man surrounded by wacky things. I think the approach becomes about being honest with it because sometimes I try to get the laugh and Pete Fairley would kind of dial it back and say, you know, let’s make it more honest than silly and then it will be funnier if it’s More Honest. So I. You kind of have to strike a certain tone with that. I had to do that on Naked Gun with Liam Neeson, where it’s such a specific type of comedy that you really, you can’t try to be funny. You got to just know that the page, the screenplay itself is funny.

 

Louis Virtel Now, in this movie, you work alongside Mark Wahlberg, but you also work with Molly Shannon and as somebody who has, as our audience just heard, has every credit for comedy education that you do. Like you literally listed every possible way you could learn about comedy. You know these things. What was it like working with her and getting an SNL-sized performance from her? She really reminded me of her old SNL days here.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, she really turned it on. I’m a big Saturday Night Live fan. My dream was to get to be a cast member on the show for years and years. And then I, I gave up because I realized you really kind of have to marry comedy, you can’t date comedy if you want to be on SNL. But um, but you know, Molly’s one of my favorites of all time. And she could not have been sweeter and more cool and malleable go with the flow type. But she was really, really funny. And She would do certain things. Where she would do a more normal take and then she would a crazier take and amplify the anger or something. And that range of comedy is really fun to watch. You can almost get lost mid scene watching somebody do comedy if they’re really good at it. Her and Sasha were like that.

 

Louis Virtel Now, Sacha Baron Cohen, I feel like when he is solving, by the way, he is in this movie, in a very future world, wearing a wig that can only be described as Tony Colette core. I don’t know who made the choice, it’s wild. But watching him work, and I’m a writer for Jimmy Kimmel where he once did a sketch with us, it’s like, there’s a very specific cerebral quality to him as he is, solving what he’s going to do on the screen before he lets it all fly. What was it like watching him put this character together?

 

Paul Walter Hauser It’s exactly that, there’s a lot of thought that goes into it, and a lot of finite decisions made within the character. And then he kind of lets the improv come and flow. If Pete doesn’t yell cut, he’ll play around and try something or he’ll do the thing that Pete likes and then find new ways to do it. And it was a master class watching that, but also incredibly hard to stay in character. I think I’m pretty good at not breaking in general. I’m not like at the level of Chris Parnell, who’s a master at keeping a straight face, but I’m also not a Jimmy Fallon. I’m somewhere in between. Sasha, some of the stuff he does in this movie, waving a gun in my face and shouting the craziest stuff imaginable. Like it is so hard to not laugh and become an audience member. I really, I kind of had to play the fear of the situation within my character to try to stay straight the whole time.

 

Louis Virtel As somebody who is this serious ascentophile as you, can you think of any moments on set of a movie where you literally are just watching an actor, perhaps as you’re watching, performing alongside him and feeling like just a movie fan taking in a performance as opposed to having to interact with it?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, the first film I ever did was a small indie film called Virginia with Jennifer Connelly. And it was lesser seen, had some great performances, some really good moments, but it didn’t really hit the way we thought it would. But I worked with Ed Harris on that movie and I am a massive fan of Ed Harris from Places in the Heart to The Rock and Truman Show. So, There was something that happened on that set. And it also had to do with it being my first movie I’ve ever done. I was 22, 23 years old. I caught myself watching Ed and not really being in the scene two or three times on the first couple of days. And I was like, dude, you gotta not, I know he’s Ed Harris. You gotta get past it. You gotta, you can’t watch him. You have to engage and be present. And that was kind of a hiccup. That’s only happened maybe two, three times in my career. But Ed Harris is definitely one of them.

 

Louis Virtel Well, just watching him at the Oscars sit alongside Amy Madigan and the look on his face, like exchanging glasses, I mean, even that alone, like there’s a casual intensity and seriousness to Ed Harris that is bewitching.

 

Paul Walter Hauser I think he’s, she’s the sugar and he’s the spice in that relationship. They definitely balance each other out. And I’ve, I’ve met both of them and gotten to work with them briefly. And yeah, couldn’t find a more lovely, fun, interesting couple to be around. I really would love to work them again. I was so happy for Amy winning a slew of awards for her role in weapons. It was a good moment for the horror genre too. I think comedy and horror. And even action kind of get left out of the awards conversation sometimes. But if you see a role like Amy Madigan in Weapons or you see Lupita in Jordan Peele’s Us, those are Oscar-worthy performances. Philip Seymour Hoffman in Mission Impossible 3 is the best supporting actor-worthy performance. There are things in comedy that I think of, that I could or should be nominated, I guess once in a while they do. Melissa McCarthy was nominated for an Oscar for Bridesmaids. Correct, yes. Robert Downey Jr. For Traffic Thunder. So it happens once in a while, but not as frequently as I’d like to see it.

 

Louis Virtel Now, speaking of Amy Madigan, you are working with Zach Kregger also, and I’m fascinated about what your interaction with him is like, because he is sort of the most enigmatic and interesting director right now. Again, like getting a, not just a horror performance into the award show conversation, but one that eventually dominated.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, I mean, Zach Kregger is an absolute stud. I really liked Barbarian. I remember I went to Universal City Walk with Sam Rockwell to go watch Justin Long in Barbarians who I became friends with them through Sam. We thought that movie was incredible and unforgettable and then weapons I thought topped it. Weapons will be hard to top but Resident Evil is him trying to do more of a video game vibe I think to the It’s like 90 minutes of adrenaline rush, never letting go of the throat, as far as the action and the horror. And I only did two weeks, maybe two and a half weeks in Prague on the movie, but I loved working with Zach Craigert. I mean, that’s one of those guys that you wanna, you really wanna do repeat business with because he’s fun to be around, he’s super smart, but you’re having fun while you’re doing it too, even when it’s intense.

 

Louis Virtel Just a general question I have for you, and this comes up a few times in your careers, do you prefer your characters dark? Do you prefer having characters who, like, jolt the audience with, you know, the sort of bleakness that humanity can have within it?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, I think I think i’ve done it comedically and I time you. Yes, less less funny in Black Clansman and then really, really not funny in blackbird. So, so that’s something I’m attracted to because it’s fun to play. It’s interesting, I think, to play a dynamic of human nature that is not so likable or full of levity. But then as you’ve seen in Cobra Kai or balls up. I really like to have fun and do something strictly comedic as well. To me, it’s all about, does this project tick enough of the boxes? And the boxes for me are, you wanna be paid decent. Location is a big deal now because I got three kids and a wife. And then, you know, the screenplay and the co-stars and the director are, am I working with people I trust? And Pete Fairley and Mark Wahlberg, I, you now. I have plenty of faith and trust in those guys. I would work with them again in a heartbeat.

 

Louis Virtel Another element I like in some of your best movies is you clearly had to do some research. Like when I look at Richard Jewell or Itania or I am a game show savant, so I love you and luckiest man in America, which is about the game show Press Your Luck in the 80s. You clearly need to know the history and a lot of these are extremely publicized pop cultural events. Do you like dramaturgically getting into these old things before you shoot a movie or do you prefer material where you get to sort of just invent your own thing?

 

Paul Walter Hauser It depends. I really like biopics and true stories. Sometimes it’s a true story you’re not even fully aware of, like Dark Waters with Mark Ruffalo and Sam Robbins. And then sometimes it’s something really splashy and loud and you’re all familiar with it, like James Mangold’s Johnny Cash movie, Walk the Lines. So I really liked true stories in general. I am attracted to that. It always piques my interest. But if you ask me the movies I came up with that really affected me, a lot of them are just, you know, auteur people doing cool movies, whether it’s A Few Good Men or Dazed and Confused or Wet Hot American Summer or Swingers, like these are these are just original films. So it depends on what it is, I guess. But doing research is very helpful. It’s very helpful to come from a place of factual knowledge because it can inform It can inform the performance and steer it in a way that you may find yourself pulling over to the side of the road to give the car analogy when it’s an original piece.

 

Louis Virtel You’ve talked a lot about the difference between doing a big blockbuster movie and doing independent movies and sort of, you know, how the actor feels and how like, basically how necessary you feel on a set and you know how that contributes to a dynamic. Is there any one particular movie experience that you consider your single best that where you just enjoyed it from beginning to end where you belonged felt exactly right?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Um, the ones that stick out to me are I, Tanya, um, because there were leads, but it did feel like a fun ensemble and we were all kind of, we all kind of felt like we were making this weird, like Frankenstein monster. Like none of us, none of really knew if this movie was going to hit the zeitgeist or not. Thankfully it did, but we were, we were kind of this naughty crazy movie, uh, in a way, and, and we we’re all of the same mindset. Richard Jule was a lot of fun because I got to be a lead and I got work with Kathy Bates and Sam Rockwell the whole show. It’s like, that’s insane. Clint Eastwood, insane. And the third one I would single out is The After Party, which is a lesser seen show on Apple that I got do with Lord and Miller and a host of funny people like Ken Jeong and John Cho and Tiffany Haddish. It just, it was one of these things where every day you show up and it’s like adult summer camp. It’s crazy.

 

Louis Virtel As a cinephile, you brought a number of your favorite movies up. Is there a movie you go to re-watch the most often, where you get the most out of it every single viewing, even though you’ve seen it a million times?

 

Paul Walter Hauser In general, I rewatch Home Alone and It’s a Wonderful Life like twice every year around the holidays. As far as like rewatchables, as I’ve heard the term coined, once a year I watch almost famous, Donnie Darko’s Shattered Glass, Spinal Tap, Shawshank Redemption, A Few Good Men. A field of dreams, like it’s usually just something from my watching history that I go, man, I just wanna see this once a year to be reminded of how good cinema is.

 

Louis Virtel Wow, Field of Dreams, you are really Amy Madigan Core. I had no idea.

 

Paul Walter Hauser I stand for her, yes. Uncle Buck, field of dreams, weapons, she can do it all.

 

Louis Virtel Please, also Shattered Glass, that’s sort of an underrated entry in that movie. It’s really gripping from beginning to end. And also, there’s only like six good movies about journalism.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, man, I really like I really liked I like cubicle thrillers like margin calls

 

Louis Virtel Zodiac yeah, yeah

 

Paul Walter Hauser Um, I love white collar crime. I love movies like arbitrage arbitrage, Richard gear. I, I’m, I watch Michael Clayton once a year, every year. Um, so yeah, there’s just certain sub genres I’m really tickled by. And one of them is kind of the white collar, crime or cubicle world is, is in there. Interesting.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like I love those movies too, because you get like at least half a dozen interesting actors. Like Margin Call, like you get like the Jeremy Irons button, you know? Like, and he comes in later, you now? Do you have favorite performances in that genre?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Um, yeah, I, I mean, you’re hard pressed to find a better one than Tom Wilkins instead of Michael Clayton.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, fuck yeah. And also a better person, but I’m sorry, he’s good at everything, in the bedroom, etc.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Oh God. Yeah, I miss him dearly. I wish I could have worked with him while he was alive. I think Network is the best of all of them as far as the movie itself. But like Ned Beatty and Network earned an Oscar nomination for what is essentially a five or six minute monolog scene that he has. And it’s just brilliant. I mean, that guy was incredible.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, and I am a Faye Dunaway Stan, a Beatrice Stray Stan, he is the best performance in network. Cause he like goes, it’s like, it’s basically feels like three different characters in a row, but it’s the same guy and he’s just bewitching. And also that’s also kind of the most Paul Walter Hauser performance of the seventies, if I do say so myself.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Oh, that’s so funny. Yeah, I could see doing that or playing him playing Ned Beatty and deliver in short or or Nashville or something. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, you really have fucking seen everything. Do you find that you like, when you- Not every-

 

Paul Walter Hauser Not everything. There’s some that I’m so ashamed that like, I will never say unless I’m called out.

 

Louis Virtel But do you encounter this a lot on a film set? Are you usually the only, like, cinephile of this sort, or do you feel like you run into it a lot?

 

Paul Walter Hauser I’m usually the top or top three cinephile person on a set and I played a game, I did this movie that was criminally underrated and underseen, it was called Americana.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, with us. Sydney Sweeney, yes.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Sydney Sweeney and Halsey, the late, late great Eric Dane, Simon Rex, but there was a night where we had a night shoot and it was me, Zahn McLaren, and Simon Rex. And we played a game that I created where you just, you try to call out as many actors as you can think of and you get more points if they’re obscure. So we’d be sitting there for four, I’m talking 40 minutes we played this game where you’d just go, that’s a wrap on Ned Beatty. And then everybody reacts to you saying Ned Beatty and then somebody else chimes in and it’s their turn and they go, that’s a wrap on Max Casella. And you just run it as long as you can until you can’t anymore. And stupid referential games like that are really interesting to play with actors on set cause you find out whether they know their stuff or not.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, I have bad news for you. I was born to play that game and I’m very sad not to be there and not, and not to say that’s a wrap on Klaus Maria Brandauer. Yes.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Wow.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, you think? I’ve just begun, sweetie. Sorry.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Um, that’s a wrap on Cathy Moriarty.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, by the way, brilliant in soap dish, even though you cannot do that performance again.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, I worked with her on this movie that’s in post. She played my mother in a movie called The Very Best People that I also produced in New York. And getting to play with her was a dream come true. I think we had two days together.

 

Louis Virtel Pretty awesome oh my god but uh… That hasn’t come out yet

 

Paul Walter Hauser Not yet. Oh, I’m so excited. It comes out next year. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of interesting actors to work with, we had Walton Goggins here not long ago, and I wanna ask quickly about luckiest man in America where he played Peter Tamarkin, the host of Press Your Luck. Your interplay in that movie is so fun. I feel like you’re two actors because you inhabit the sort of character actor sphere. We wouldn’t normally get to see you both together necessarily in certain things. What was it like working with him?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah I get tickled by seeing a bunch of character actors work together. You saw that in Zodiac where all the people Jake Gyllenhaal is on the phone with, it’s like Donald Logue, Elias Codius, then you see the Zodiak guy and it’s John Carroll Lynch, like I love I love stuff like that. And we got a little bit of that with me and Knoxville and Walt Goggins and David Sutherland and Brian Garrity and luckiest man in America. I love Walt and Goggins, I’ve been a fan for years. He’s also somebody who can work in any genre. And that was during the actor strike. We were one of the films that got approved because we weren’t tied to a studio. So it was really, really cool to have him come out and work and do what he does. I love that guy. I definitely, I like, there are big actors that I love. Denzel, Anthony Hopkins, Cate Blanchett. I like the big names, but I get more excited Bye. The people I’m just a fan of. If I were to work with Peter Sarsgaard or Joe La Trulia or Katherine Keener, I would be probably more excited than an A-lister, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Oh gosh, well unfortunately though you’ve brought up Cate Blanchett, so my last question for you is what’s your favorite Cate blanchett performance?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Oh, man. Shoot. Listen, it’s controversial to say because the filmmaker is more than likely a total creep and I don’t support his movies anymore. But I don’t know if it gets any better than Cate Blanchett and Blue Jasmine.

 

Louis Virtel I have to agree. That’s certainly top three. Also, I watched that movie back recently. The whole thing is kind of underrated. Like, Bobby Cannavale is so good in it, and Sally Hawkins.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Yeah, fabulous.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Peter Sarsgaard, yes, right.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Sarsgaard, Alec Baldwin, that movie is unbelievable. I remember being in the theater in 2013 when it came out. I was jaw dropped seeing her sit on the bench at the end of the film muttering to herself because I realized what they had actually done is they pulled off a bit of a magic trick where they reverse engineered and you saw how these people that are like homeless and crazy, you saw they become that. And I had never seen that in a movie before. I thought it was genius.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, jarring. It’s crazy she could, quote-unquote, go there. You know, you didn’t think Kate Blanchard could go that bleak, even though she’s so refined and fabulous and smart.

 

Paul Walter Hauser And then tar aviator she’s just she’s always good i met her briefly at an award show it might have been critics choice she was there for tar i was there from blackbird night i said like two words to her and todd field but i was so terrified they both looked up at me and i was just like nothing i can say will interest these people or flatter them they probably don’t want to talk to me, but I have to say hi.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, Matt, I’m sure you handled yourself well. And by the way, she’s one of those people that’s seen every movie, too. I think you guys could have talked for a long time.

 

Paul Walter Hauser But I heard her I heard a quote. I think you should leave the Tim Robinson sketch show She like briefly quoted it in an interview and I was like, oh, she’s probably super cool. Actually. Yeah, she’s probably super Cool. She’s just intense

 

Louis Virtel Precise no and also routinely hilarious. Did you ever see her on documentary now playing the marina abramovich character fucking hilarious?

 

Paul Walter Hauser Genius in Doc Now and she’s one of the highlights of Don’t Look Up, the Adam McKay comedy.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, and the veneers, please. Yes, the vaneers were the star of the show. Paul Walterhauser, thank you so much for being here. And unfortunately, you’re my new co-host on this podcast. I’m sorry, you are sticking around forever.

 

Paul Walter Hauser I’m in, dude, twice a year. Let’s just hook up and do this. Yeah, I appreciate you shouting out balls up. It opens April 15 on Amazon Prime, and I’m really proud of it. I think it’s hysterical.

 

Louis Virtel You do a fabulous job and that’s a wrap on Lottie Lenya. Thank you so much for being here.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Wow, that is a wrap on Patrick Fischler.

 

Louis Virtel I love him. Oh my god. He’s so good speed. He is such a and madman. Oh, my gosh. Anyway

 

Paul Walter Hauser Mulholland drive. Okay. We could go all

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no, we have to stop, we had to stop. Okay, thank you for being here, Paul.

 

Paul Walter Hauser Thanks, man.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you to Paul Walter Hauser. Balls Up is streaming globally on Prime Video. We’ll be right back with Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with the meanest part of the episode. It’s Keep It. Ivy, I’m gonna start. Since we already had the conversation about Coachella, which we famously were not at, but I’m getting concerned now and mad. And my Keep It goes to whoever is running Cat’s Eye. Okay, Cat’s eye. I want to support the Pussycat Dolls Shape group. They are like military grade talented. We watched them. The music is terrible. Yes, we watched them come together. On this show, Pop Star Academy, where demands were put on them like, you have to be able to like, defeat Simone Biles at the Olympics, and then also sing, and then, also be charming all the time. Their music could not be worse. It’s so bad, it’s so, It could not, be worse! It’s, so bad. And they pimp out these singles. Like, we’re gonna be so excited to hear them. They had a new one called, Pinky Up.

 

Ivy Wolk Is that the one where they sing about the zucchini?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I know that that is an earlier song they are constantly zucchini emoji about everything the grossness of it the baseness of it I think what offends me is

 

Ivy Wolk And it’s not funny or smart.

 

Louis Virtel It’s never funny and it’s played so aggressively and blatantly like we all know it’s funny. What bothers me is we know these girls so well from this TV show, from all their social media and yet all the music, which I believe is chosen for them is conferring this personality of hardness on them, which I get is like a familiar zone in K-pop, but it’s like, can we pick songs that sounds like you’ve met the girls before because they’re not like this. They’re not the gnarly of it, just like the It’s so like waving middle fingers at a camera energy. And it just doesn’t remind me of them at all. And I brought up America’s Next Top Model earlier. You know, the physical challenges on that show where they make the girls like walk the runway while like beams are spinning. I feel like they are like constantly part of a reality show challenge where it’s like, you have to be charming while singing this broken chainsaw of a song. Like, I don’t know who they’re supposed to impress with this bad music. It is offensively. Bad. And by the way, the fans of them are fans of them. You cannot tell me they are fans of this music.

 

Ivy Wolk No, I think they like the girls for like what each girl represents in a Spice Girls way. Yes, you pick your

 

Louis Virtel Yes, you pick your favorite. You’re like, I like her better than this one. And yes, yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Yes. Yeah. No, the music is egregious.

 

Louis Virtel Ugh, my god. It’s a bridges. No.

 

Ivy Wolk They have no sonic identity.

 

Louis Virtel The idea that there is this gigantic, expensive apparatus behind putting them together, keeping them trained, keeping them together. And by the way, that hasn’t even worked. Manon has just left the group, even though she appeared backstage at Coachella, I guess.

 

Ivy Wolk Her and Chappell, I saw a picture of her and Choppell in the crowd together. I know they talk a mad shit about being over-famed together, which I, to be a fly on the wall for that delicious conversation.

 

Louis Virtel One Act Play, coming soon.

 

Ivy Wolk About the gilded cage

 

Louis Virtel but that there’s this expensive apparatus behind putting the group together, and yet none of it seems to go in picking good songs.

 

Ivy Wolk I don’t see what planet am I music is totally ancillary. Yeah, it’s it’s really weird. Yeah really weird

 

Louis Virtel It’s like when there’s a movie about stand-up comedy and then you listen to the jokes in the movie and it’s like who wrote these?

 

Ivy Wolk I have that problem. I can’t watch anything about stand-up because it literally drives me crazy It’s the same thing where it yeah, like I remember that show time show. I’m dying up here. That was a fucking mess

 

Louis Virtel That we put Melissa Leo on, yes.

 

Ivy Wolk Smoking and chewing the scenery like it was her last day on earth Like she was gonna die the next day like somebody was gonna shoot her if she didn’t like Go down to the butt every single time on her fucking herbal cigarettes on the set crazy TV show Yeah, but like yeah the jokes on that show just terrible and you’re like watching like 10-minute like long cuts of somebody performing The worst stand-up set that you have ever heard in your life and that is what the cat’s eye music is Yeah, like who thrust this upon them who thought that this was like? Television representation of what a pop song is.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, no, it’s the Che Diaz stand up of music. Yes, it all feels like parody. It all feels parody. Oh my God, it so upset. And of course they look amazing. Like they’re great at what they do. They look like they are doing like military obstacle courses every day of their life.

 

Ivy Wolk Yeah, yeah, of course.

 

Louis Virtel But they’re a Flopsicle course.

 

Ivy Wolk Flopsicle horse. Anyway. Major Lee.

 

Louis Virtel Ivy woke what is your keep it up

 

Ivy Wolk My keep it sort of is related to euphoria, which is I’m tired of like the American West and like Americana symbolism being the thing. Like I’m also just like another thing I’m really tired of is like clearly this season on euphoria religiosity is going to be like and coming to Jesus particularly is going to be a major overarching theme and it’s like I’m actually like really exhausted with I’m like. Kind of ironic re-appropriation of Christian symbols and Americana bullshit. I understand why it’s germane, I guess, for the time we’re in now, but it feels like people more interesting in cutting edge were doing this 10 years ago with Lana Del Rey and her work back then, and I guess overarching throughout her entire career, or Ethel Cain or somebody like that. People can do it, interestingly. Everything else almost feels like a pastiche of what we have already seen. And already from what I’ve gotten from the season of Euphoria, with the use of like the wild west or whatever in like a modern context, or like somebody trying to find God or whatever through like, you know, trying Western rough and tumble circumstances, all of it just feels- Don’t you dig?

 

Louis Virtel Don’t you days of heaven at me!

 

Ivy Wolk Don’t do it to me it feels trite and it feels like overblown and it just feels like There’s different grounds that we should be trying to tread at this point where it’s like people have mastered that as a symbol in their work and people have used it in a way that actually Influences culture for decades now I don’t think that anybody doing it at this Point that hasn’t already done it is going to say anything have anything more interesting to say I feel like we see like pop stars often like bur- like- Kia ass like burgeoning like

 

Louis Virtel Like, who’s? Yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk Who’s that, pop stars? I’m thinking of like Jessie Murph, Nessa Barrett, trying to use like Americana imagery to bolster the narrative of their music, but it always just comes off as like completely shallow and like dense.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, a shortcut to being interesting, that is just pictures. Yes, it’s just pictures! Just Pinterest, yeah, yeah.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s Pinterest. It’s just like you’re just showing us pictures of like a tumbleweed and you’re being like and that’s the state of being a Woman in America and it’s like okay and try telling me more I dare you

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right

 

Ivy Wolk Try telling me more about how that relates to your relationship with your boyfriend.

 

Louis Virtel That’s very Justin Timberlake’s like Man of the Woods era. Yes, yes. Oh, did you hear? I have depth now.

 

Ivy Wolk Right where it’s like you’re Jack Kerouac Ezra McCandless you are not like that does not a deep fucking art piece make

 

Louis Virtel And also just like season three of The White Lotus, like the least interesting thing about it was the religious storyline. Which I think again, it was like, it was sort of play acting at depth or play acting like something more interesting is going on here than there actually was unfortunately.

 

Ivy Wolk And I feel like people often use religious symbolism as a crutch, but it just ultimately just comes off as sort of meretricious and flat to me. That’s sad.

 

Louis Virtel That said, you know what’s a religious movie that I think you should see if you haven’t you ever seen Audrey Hepburn in the nuns story?

 

Ivy Wolk No, I haven’t. So-

 

Louis Virtel It’s a long ass movie. That said, it’s a movie about a woman entering a nunnery as a nun.

 

Ivy Wolk I like a nun thing. Me always. Benedetta, the Verhoeven movie, Benedette.

 

Louis Virtel And also the sex in that movie what planet was I on yes

 

Ivy Wolk So good. But like, I like something like that, but it’s like the American, American like evangelism sort of not being used in like a satirical way, i.e. Like righteous gemstones to me, is always just like boring. And I’m also like, why are we actually positioning this thing as something that will save all of us or gets to like a depth, a secret depth and kindness that we have in this country?

 

Louis Virtel Well, by the way, you’re gonna hate all of country music because that is still what we do is like use these same images and same sentiments

 

Ivy Wolk It’s madness!

 

Louis Virtel Around religion and the way things were and the Old West as like a this is who we are at our core thing.

 

Ivy Wolk I hate it. I guess I’m tired.

 

Louis Virtel Which is just that straight men are normal and nobody else is.

 

Ivy Wolk Exactly. I guess I’m tired of like Jesus being sort of re-used as like a hipster symbol or like a connotation of like a coolness or like, I don’t know, because I feel like we were, I feel the counterculture thing right now is religiosity because we were in our like Reddit atheist bag for so long. And so now that i remain there iraq i fucking remain there i don’t care if it’s going to remain there whatever but like that you know like people are kind of like coming back to religiosity into the things that we’re seeing in like music and film and t.v. Are reflecting that motif but it’s like i think everything interesting about any of that has already been said that i saw the godfather

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I saw the Godfather. Yeah, sorry.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s ground that has been tread a million times over. I don’t think Sam Levinson can be the one to illuminate any new ideas about what it’s like to like stare out at like a sand dune and think about Jesus.

 

Louis Virtel No, I unfortunately think new ideas are not what you’re going to get on the new season of Euphoria.

 

Ivy Wolk Not at all and I mean it’s gonna be like new ways of it’s going to be like a new fucking cosmic gumbo of bullshit Yeah, it’s Gonna be you’re gonna be I’ve never seen a girl have her boobs spill out of the top that

 

Louis Virtel In that order.

 

Ivy Wolk In that order, you know, I’ve never seen left to right tumble out of the shirt as she’s running away from the killer or whatever, but like, yeah, that’s my keep it is just like, let’s find some new symbols. Let’s read new books, let us look at some new photos, let s try new stuff. Let s try some new stuff, please, let t try some

 

Louis Virtel Ivy Wilk, if people want to find you on social media, and I assume you have some, where can they find you?

 

Ivy Wolk My Instagram is at woltmindvirus2. If you’re in New York City, I’m a stand-up comedian. I have a show called- Yeah, you are. Yeah, I am. I have show called Struggle Best. That’ll be at Sesh Comedy on 426. And then I have another show at the Roxy Cinema on 430. So go to my Instagram if you’re a New York city and you’re interested in what I have to say. They’re really fun shows. Come out and see them. And if you have Apple TV, I’m in Jonah Hill’s new movie called Outcome and also coming April 17th. To Netflix is Chandler Levick’s Roommates, written by the wonderful Kira O’Sullivan and Jamie Fowley. Two funny ass comedies where I’m playing some funny ass girls, so…

 

Louis Virtel I fucking love Jimmy Fallon. We used to just run into each other at Starbucks, be like, is anything happening for you right now? And now he’s like fucking like the king of SNL. Love him. Yeah. I love him so much. Such a doll.

 

Ivy Wolk Room, it’s just gonna be so good. I’m seeing it tonight for the first time.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, how exciting.

 

Ivy Wolk It’s going to be amazing.

 

Louis Virtel Also, how annoying is it that you are such a good actress? I’m sorry. You should just be the funny person. I’m Sorry.

 

Ivy Wolk I know, but it’s awesome for me that I’m a good actress because then I can watch other people do actors.

 

Louis Virtel Amazing. Yeah. Thank you to Ivy Wolk for being here. Thank you to Paul Walter Hauser. We will see you next week on Keep It.

 

Ivy Wolk Bye!

 

Louis Virtel Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath, and our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, Rachel Gaewski, and Jay Banks. Thank you to David Toles and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.