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This week, Louis Virtel is joined by pop culture reporter Nina Parker to discuss the Grammys, Bad Bunny, Olivia Dean, Nicki Minaj, Don Lemon, and Catherine O’Hara. Louis is also joined by Paula Pell to discuss writing on SNL and her upcoming Peacock series, The Burbs.

 

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Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I’m Luther Vandross, here to collect my Grammy after 20 years. Talk about endless love. It’s time. No, sorry, I’m the other LV, Louis Virtel. And with me is, frankly, an entertainment legend.

 

Nina Parker Oooh!

 

Louis Virtel I was just discovering that you began at TMZ in 2007.

 

Nina Parker Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Which is like, like what, 1939 is to movies? 2007 is to TMZ, Jesus Christ, Nina Parker, welcome to Keep It.

 

Nina Parker Hi! Thank you for having me!

 

Louis Virtel Nightly Pop Diva on E!

 

Nina Parker Yes, yes, yes

 

Louis Virtel but you’ve been everywhere, reported for everything.

 

Nina Parker Yes, I have. I’ve been in the trenches, honey.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. The trenches. I mean, starting in 2007 at TMZ, I mean do you feel like a veteran? I mean- Yeah, I do. Do you feel somebody who deserves compensation?

 

Nina Parker Absolutely. I’m waiting for the 800 number on the screen in the middle of the night because I’m calling ASAP. I might create the 800 numbers, especially for that place. Yeah, it’s crazy because I definitely feel like an auntie now. I feel like I am now old in this industry. You know how they say like Hollywood marriages, if you make it 10 years, it is like 100. It’s the same with journalism. Thank you so much for joining us.

 

Louis Virtel Because you get beat up. Oh, precisely. I don’t tell this to many people, and even some of my close friends don’t know this about me, and I’m getting choked up saying it, but I do have a journalism degree. And you don’t often bring, I mean, like to persist in that occupation, mainly in entertainment. I’m not saying it’s like the hardest job in the world. It is taxing.

 

Nina Parker It’s taxing, it’s tax, and the thing about news, it’s like the post office, it doesn’t stop.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Nina Parker You know, so it’s 24 seven. So you just wake up kind of on edge, you know, I think at the average person right now is waking up on edge. You know what happened today? But especially when you’re, you work in news and, you know, it’s such a changing industry right now. It’s the wild west.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. It remains the Wild West. But also, of course, the Wild West has many meanings right now. The First Amendment, for example, we’ll just say is under attack. I would say it’s going poorly.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, it’s not going well!

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I think we need to go.

 

Nina Parker Back and take a look. Right. I think people, maybe they’re not reading the fine print.

 

Louis Virtel Or the print at all. Oh, the print it all. I think they’re making their new amendments. In fact, let’s print it out again. Right.

 

Nina Parker Right. If we make an amendment, I have a few that I’d like to add if we’re just doing our own thing.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. So Don Lemon, I’ll say our colleague. Yes, he might cover harder journalism.

 

Nina Parker Shut up! Yes, I like it

 

Louis Virtel But over the weekend, arrested for attending and covering a protest in St. Paul that entered a church. And we’re wondering why the hell he was arrested. He’s a journalist covering this event. What’s interesting is when Donald Trump originally kind of threatened him on social media or said he should be arrested, he retained a lawyer. And he said, well, I mean, I’ll turn myself in. And then he didn’t hear back from them. Only a couple weeks later when he was in LA covering the Grammys.

 

Nina Parker Because they want to have a stunt, they want a stunt. They want to make an example. By the way, the wrong Don was arrested. Right, yes. Okay, we arresting Don’s in here. We arresting don’s in this thing. I got a few on a list. One in particular that should go. But yeah, it should- This should be an interesting-

 

Louis Virtel This would be an interesting time for you to be like, it’s Donald Glover. I’m sick of it. Yeah.

 

Nina Parker But, you know, they just want, you know, I think fodder for their TikToks at this point.

 

Louis Virtel No, I think that’s what is sticking with me at this moment is usually as a fan of celebrity and stupidity. Right. Stunt Queen-ery. Right. Is what I like. Right. On a reality show. Yes. But it’s like this is just another wrinkle in the saga of having the reality president. Right. It’s like the stunt stuff is just used against the people.

 

Nina Parker He literally uses what he learned from The Apprentice to actually operate real life. He’s just like, oh, these stunts and tricks that I did in TV, I’m just gonna do in real life, which there’s a reason why there’s production for reality shows because a lot of it is not real.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Nina Parker You know, so it’s like we can watch it with, you know, a little wink, because it’s like, okay, like these girls ain’t really beefing like that, but the girls are beefing like that right now.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right. Precisely. The girls are beefing. But, I mean, I just can’t get over the fact that this is happening to Don Lemon or happened to Don lemon because Donald Trump hates him from CNN, has cap tabs on him, and then sick people on him because he found a way using some like corner of the law that he can, whatever, to get him. And it’s become a fiasco now. And now, let’s just say this, ICE can go wherever they want into whatever building, take whomever they want out. Don Levin. Holds a mic to one person’s face in a church and suddenly he’s in jail.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, I mean, the hypocrisy is crazy. I mean anyone who speaks out against him, this is his example of saying like, if you are against me, I’m going to use everything in my power to crush you. He talked about suing Trevor Noah because of the jokes at the Grammy. So it’s just insane. The fragility of like not wanting to be able to deal with criticism. So I’m gonna put you in the jail is crazy, that level of petty, it’s psychotic.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, I’m only suing Trevor Noah because he said the phrase, Are you kidding me? Over 50 times I’m on telecast and I can’t take it anymore.

 

Nina Parker Are you kidding me?

 

Louis Virtel Wow, your Trevor Noah impression is, you’ve been working on this.

 

Nina Parker Let me also say this about Don is that not only was he trying to make an example out of him, he was trying to making an example out of black journalists.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sure.

 

Nina Parker Because the only journalists that were arrested for covering this were black journalists who have all you know since been released But they they went to their homes like it’s it was a full-on witch hunt So, you know just know that it’s a very thin line, you, know between Journalism and regular citizens just being taken. We know that’s happening So, yeah, right, you Know it’s just something that everybody needs to really be aware of there is really no like putting your toe in

 

Louis Virtel Also, I think it’s, you made an important distinction there. Don Lemon was also acting as an independent journalist. So, I mean, which is sort of like squirting the line between citizenry and the fourth estate, but also we all have phones. So we’re all kind of journalists.

 

Nina Parker Right. So at this point, you know, at this point, because, you know, the institutions that we normally rely on are being heavily influenced by this administration. So now it’s kind of like, you know, even entertainment headlines, you know? I’m seeing all of these Melania, like, and I’m like, nobody’s in those theaters, babes. Nobody’s in there. Yeah, they’re empty. But all of the skewing of like you know, there was so much criticism with Variety when they were talking about centers, like are they going to make the money back? But when you see the Melania headlines, as you see. You know, the complete opposite where it’s like, even though there was a big budget, they are squeaking through in the theaters. And I’m like, it’s no squeaking.

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s empty and also it’s like one of the headlines was she exceeded expectations. I was like to make zero dollars. Yes To make zero dollars?

 

Nina Parker Mind you, there was a bit, first of all, the fact that there was a bidding war for this.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Is crazy. For what? So that she can kind of like walk past the camera and go into rooms and sit down and then get up and walk out of the room.

 

Nina Parker I would rather eat a jean jacket. A jean jacket followed by a cup of talcum powder before I ever watched that in my life. You don’t have to hold, like the film where they hold your eyes open, they would have to do that to me. That would be torture.

 

Louis Virtel No, there’s just nothing to know. The idea, I write for Jimmy Kimmel, and we were writing jokes about this documentary, and the illusion that somehow we are all intrigued in the idea that something is happening, one, behind the scenes, or two, behind-the-eyes. Yeah, right. No!

 

Nina Parker There’s nothing there!

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Nina Parker There’s nothing there, there’s-

 

Louis Virtel nothing we need to know. No, my question is, are you real? Right. And if you can prove she has skin and bones, then we can move on. That’s it.

 

Nina Parker The only thing I think is, you know, if she’s like an Android or something, then I mean, maybe there’s a conversation there, but there’s just really nothing I need.

 

Louis Virtel No, if we can get started on the Blade Runner future, we’re already there in so many other ways, please. Right. Yes. It’s a mess. But anyway, my other favorite Android, Nicki Minaj, where are you on her right now?

 

Nina Parker Oh, I’m off that.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Nina Parker And that was, that was… I’m off that. For life. Yeah, right. You know, I am a grudge holder.

 

Louis Virtel Mm-hmm. Oh, love that.

 

Nina Parker I am a grudge holder in general, but in my personal relationships, I have a lot of grace. For my celebrities that I’ve enjoyed that have broken my heart, I never go back. I never got back. I still don’t even like Danny Glover because of how he acted in the color purple.

 

Louis Virtel Oh wow you take you take the scripts they actually take. Got it got it.

 

Nina Parker You shouldn’t have took the role, Danny. So I still don’t watch, you know, whatever he’s in. So if I for damn sure ain’t forgiving Nikki. Wow. Nikki is from Queens. Like you from the bottoms. Like you know what it’s like to do this. It’s crazy to me. And you know it’s just unforgivable. It’s just un-forgivable

 

Louis Virtel No, and she, I mean, it seems to be a bit of a gambit on her part because she also acquired one of these Trump gold cards, which allows her to like enter the, be a citizen without having to pay the million dollars you would otherwise have to pay for this. Which by the way, they said, just kidding. Wonka golden ass ticket, yeah.

 

Nina Parker Like, how embarrassing, how embarrassed is it of you to get on this stage and walk around for all these white folks and try to be like the representation of black culture on this stage looking a fool and then posting this only for them to be, like, oh girl, this was just, this is just for show, like this wasn’t real, like you’re going to have to get in line with everybody else for this paperwork. You’re going have to get into this line, she’s going to be in that TSA line just Everybody out

 

Louis Virtel We maybe should have been totally done just after the Megan Thee Stallion situation, too. Right, right. Those bars, lol.

 

Nina Parker Dark. Like it’s to me when I see like what she talks about and like when she was tweeting them through the Grammys because she was upset. Because all of this by the way is like insecurity for not being included. Like I want to feel included so I’m going to go in a space where I feel included because they’re not showing me the love because she’s always had beef with the Grammies. Which at some point in her career that was a rightfully, a rightful

 

Louis Virtel It’s weird that the woman doesn’t have a Grammy. Yeah, it is.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, it’s weird, but now I’m like, I mean, you know, a lot of things is just people need to like you.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Tell me it’s gonna get you so far. Awards is about, can I tolerate you in any way? Yes! Yeah.

 

Nina Parker People think like there’s a voting regulation of like, you know, civility. You know, I’m on some voting boards and I’m just like, yeah, the album was great, but I don’t even, I don’t like this bitch like that.

 

Louis Virtel Right, no.

 

Nina Parker You know, like I like that doesn’t sit right

 

Louis Virtel Doesn’t sit right in my soul as we used to say.

 

Nina Parker It’s like, you know, it’s nothing is fair. So a lot of these things, as you know like with work, whatever, like the most talented doesn’t always get recognized because it’s a culmination of like, do I enjoy this person? What are their views? Like that’s just the regular human way. I don’t care what anybody says when they’re voting. It’s not always about the project.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Which brings me to my next point. The Grammys just happened. And I have to say just as a ceremony, one of the few where you can watch it with a ton of people or by yourself, totally gratifying. Elsewhere in this episode, the fabulous Paula Pell joins us. We’ll talk about, oh my God, her years writing for SNL, her fabulous writing partner and partner, Janine Brito, among other things. And then we’ll get into something that I think decimated all weekends, the career and life and livelihood and fabulousness of Katherine O’Hara.

 

Nina Parker Which I felt bad because I couldn’t even process the news because everything, it happened the same day as Don Lemon’s arrest. So I felt like it didn’t get the love and the moment that it needed. So I’m glad we’re talking about this.

 

Louis Virtel No, and we’ll talk about how there is no wrong entry point into her career. Literally everything she did was like a perfect microcosm of everything she could deliver. You know, whether she’s just an ensemble member or the star, you can just see the joy she brought to comedy. We’ll get into that on this episode of Keep It, where I continue to dance with my father as Luther Vandross.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Music’s biggest and perhaps most political night returned on Sunday, Bad Bunny, Kendrick Lamar and Olivia Dean were the big winners of the night. Let’s start with the big awards. I’m gonna start with Album of the Year, which of course went to Bad Bunny. Looking at this now, I hate when this happens to me after the fact with an award show. Guys, it could only have been Bad Bunny! What are we talking about? This album is one of the highest rated critically albums of like the past 20 years. I believe I’m Metacritic. It’s something like the 15th highest rated album.

 

Nina Parker Is out of this stratosphere.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. You know, and I- Right, he’s the moment and beyond, yeah.

 

Nina Parker And he’s just like someone you root for, I feel like.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, I hate saying this, great attitude. When he’s on camera, it’s like, you want to look at him. Well, thanks, Dad. Yeah, right. That kind of, yeah. Great attitude. He needed this validation, and I’m here to give it. And of course, he’s about to perform at the Super Bowl, too.

 

Nina Parker He’s about to perform at the Super Bowl. I love that he did not pander. He was like, I’m doing this speech in Spanish. I speak Spanish, this is what I’m about to speak. Yes. I love, that about him. I love the he is standing ten toes down and who he is. And also just like, we are, we’re Americans, you, did y’all know Puerto Rican? Like hello?

 

Louis Virtel Like, are y’all okay? Let me show you the map.

 

Nina Parker That’s what he said in his speech. He was like, are y’all okay? Is everyone all right in here? That’s basically what he’s said. That was a translation if you didn’t know what he says.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I mean, his album also does the thing that lots of album of the years do, which is bridging old and new. It’s very, very cross-generational. Like I always say, the moment Lauren Hill won the Grammy for album of year is when she had a music video where she’s like, look, I’m the 60s and the 90s, and like all the ancient voters, so that they’re like, oh, this means I get to be cool voting for the cool new thing. And yet also, oh look, you can move like one of the Sherelles.

 

Nina Parker Yes, yes. I am so excited for him to do the Super Bowl and piss all of MAGA off. Please, yes! I hope they see.

 

Louis Virtel He’s a good celebrity to be unavoidable. We have a celebrity every once in a while who looks like you’ve got to see 70 times.

 

Nina Parker And he’s going to keep doing it because even the people who don’t like him, because we know who’s in charge of these institutions are, you know, not bad bunny friendly, but they, they can’t deny it because he’s gonna drive dollars because his sales just are incredible. So they, They can’t ignore him.

 

Louis Virtel No, he was the number one artist on Spotify, something like three or four years in a row, too.

 

Nina Parker He’s hitting some crazy numbers.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, like unheard of no and it’s it’s nice to hear that because I truly thought only Taylor Swift was capable of that And it’s like I need to live in a universe with more than one artist

 

Nina Parker You didn’t mention Beyonce. But like, is she hitting the same numbers? Oh. I don’t know the facts, but I’m going to say yes, because I would never, I would never not say, I will never say no.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, thank God we live in a universe where she finally got the album of the year, Because I’m just saying, every Grammy conversation without that is so fraught. And it’s like, no, I mean, not only was she deserving last year, which by the way, I feel like there’s some bone to pick there with people who think it should have been some other album, whatever. It’s like guys, Cowboy Carter was a perfectly acceptable album of a year.

 

Nina Parker It was, I do think she should have got it for lemonade.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sure. I would say Renaissance. Yeah, yeah. All right. Record of the year. Went to Luther by Kendrick Lamar and SZA. Luther Vandross. Oh, yes. Guys, the share portion…

 

Nina Parker I love her. She’s 79. She can do whatever she wants.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, yes, I just was shocked at how many different ways she could be confused in one moment.

 

Nina Parker Okay, well, you know, listen, to be fair, I’m confused now.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Nina Parker Okay. And daily life.

 

Louis Virtel And you’re very sharp.

 

Nina Parker I am I am pretty much every day these days. I I wake up in a stupor. Yes, so I I understand Look share was just like you know Because she left after she you know They had to call her back triff had to Call her back because she thought she was just there to accept her award share you was there to work No, right

 

Louis Virtel She came on stage after being announced. Trevor Noah sort of, I guess, pretends it’s a surprise to her, but it’s clearly not a surprise. Gives her this Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award.

 

Nina Parker But she did not have a speech prepared.

 

Louis Virtel Or did she because it was in the teleprompter and she sort of read, and the speech was a little strange. She was like, often I was very up and often I very down, which is true. Like she talks about, I was either winning an Oscar or not popular at all. I believe that, et cetera. And then she just stood there and then she said, and now I guess I’m going to leave. Cher, does that sound right? No, they would not make you do that. And then, she sort like trotted backwards a little bit, receding into a shadow. Thank God Trevor was near a stage. He’d be like, Cher, stop.

 

Nina Parker I don’t understand why no one was with her. Yeah, right. She’s 79 years old, she’s in heels and leather. Somebody go up there with her! Doesn’t she?

 

Louis Virtel Doesn’t she have that stud boyfriend?

 

Nina Parker Yeah, she got her man like him or Trevor somebody should have been you know with her or usually when there’s awards being given there’s two people anyway Yeah, right someone, you know, with her to just kind of handle the heavy lift

 

Louis Virtel Right. The heavy lift of the wig alone.

 

Nina Parker 12-Pound.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, you know, it’s like a bowling ball.

 

Nina Parker Listen, she was probably thinking about them Spanx, honey, like Cher wasn’t thinking about giving out these awards. But yeah.

 

Louis Virtel And then she did give an award. To Luther. And let’s be clear. Did she look for him? That’s my question.

 

Nina Parker The Sheeran-a-Lutagun!

 

Louis Virtel That is my question. So she reads the record of the year winner, which is Luther by Kendrick Lamar and Sissa, and she says Luther Vandross. Clearly Luther Vandra. I just want to be clear that this man has been dead 20 years.

 

Nina Parker But this…

 

Louis Virtel He is long-missed and maybe that’s part of it. I want him here too. Yes. I think he’s been gone longer than 20. Yes. Yes. No.

 

Nina Parker Because you know, we still think the 80s was 20 years ago.

 

Louis Virtel I live in that space.

 

Nina Parker Listen, my parents were in their 70s, you know, so I give a lot of grace, but you know she thinks he’s still here. She thought he was coming up there. That was.

 

Louis Virtel So strange. And yeah, I mean, it’s like, I so believe it because it’s not like she would ever really be friends with Luther Vangos, but it’s, like, you have to have some memory of, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen Luther.

 

Nina Parker I’m not excited, I have to say, I thought we had switched timelines, I said, oh my god, we done switched timelines. We have a new president and Luther’s alive.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and maybe he’s out.

 

Nina Parker YEAH!

 

Louis Virtel Who knows?

 

Nina Parker Oh, I would have been here for it. Yeah, right. You know, so I was actually disappointed Luther wasn’t up there.

 

Louis Virtel No, I have to say. And then when Kendrick Lamar says it went on stage, obviously the song does sample Luther Vandross. And I actually have to stay, my problem with this winning record of the years, I honestly prefer the sample over this song, even though it was an inescapable song this year. And the song it samples is actually a cover of the Marvin Gaye, Tammy Terrell version, because the song is written by Marvin Gaye. But by the way, the song that samples is not just Luther Vandross and Cheryl Lynn. Who I find to be one of the most underrated vocalists ever. People know her for Got to Be Real, which is the original title of Paris is Burning, the voguing documentary. A voguing documentary.

 

Nina Parker You better read this history down.

 

Louis Virtel Please.

 

Nina Parker You gotta read it down.

 

Louis Virtel All I do is Wikipedia. This is a history lesson. This is Wikipedia time.

 

Nina Parker You better give it. I love it.

 

Louis Virtel But she has so many great songs, including Shake It Up Tonight, Encore, and Starlub. Please look those up. She’s still with us, by the way. You can look at her. You can message her on Instagram.

 

Nina Parker Someone who is alive.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Nina Parker Y’all can look closer!

 

Louis Virtel I didn’t see her at the Grammys, was she there?

 

Nina Parker Call her, she could have went up there with Cher.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and by the way though, SZA also gave a lovely portion of the speech too.

 

Nina Parker Did she?

 

Louis Virtel You don’t think so?

 

Nina Parker What did she say? I think she said, you know, God governs us, not the government. It’s not the government.

 

Louis Virtel I felt like she was more specific about ICE-related things after the fact.

 

Nina Parker Yeah. I’m also just like, why y’all not saying nothing? You know, I also, I am not a person who believes that every celebrity needs to speak out because a lot of them don’t know what the hell they talking about.

 

Louis Virtel I have to tell you, I feel the same way. I feel like we are awash in misinformation in certain ways. And people need to remind themselves sometimes that if we heard from everybody, we would all be misled.

 

Nina Parker Yes, and as crazy as it sounds, I know people are criticizing Jelly Roll rightfully so. These people really live in a bubble that is, by the way, it’s unacceptable, but they, if you’ve been around these people, they really are out of their minds. This is a different stratosphere that these people live in that is just not …

 

Louis Virtel Well, I will say it’s sort of different than like actors at the Oscars where like a musician at the Grammys is surrounded by like nine or ten handlers sometimes.

 

Nina Parker But you would think as musicians, they’re artists, they are, you know, an actor is reading a script, right? A musician, you’re supposed to write about the world, you, know, hello, like most of the hit songs are about like a moment in time, you now, not just heartbreak, but like society. This is, so for these people to be the most uninformed group is a little shocking and scary.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and yet at this award ceremony, we got more speaking out than we have at most of the maybe awards. Yes, right. We got some Billie Eilish. That is a very strange song of the year winner to me. Yeah, I agree. It also seemingly came out four years ago. Because I’m being honest with you. I said, what’s Billie doing over here? Right.

 

Nina Parker I said, why the hell are you at the front the front table.

 

Nina Parker I didn’t even know there was a nomination!

 

Louis Virtel But I will say, I was happy to see her stand up because I hate when we don’t get to see her entire weird outfit.

 

Nina Parker Oh, you mean stand up physically.

 

Louis Virtel No, no, no. I was talking about fashion. You work for E. Don’t pretend you didn’t hear me.

 

Nina Parker That’s all we talk about, literally.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. There were belt buckles and I wanted to understand.

 

Nina Parker Shout out to Kelani!

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes, who won a number of Grammys.

 

Nina Parker Run the number and was the first one, I think, to get on that stage and be like, F ice, like shout out to Kelani. She stands 10 toes down on everything and doesn’t care about the backlash.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I will say just about making a political statement at the Grammys, I want to encourage more people to do things like that because I have to say, if you didn’t make a political statement, I don’t remember your speech. Literally, your ego alone, maybe if you are informed, should propel you in that direction. Even if it’s

 

Nina Parker Sure. Even if it’s just, you know, your like pseudo activism, like no one, I agree with it. And I really clock out when people start thanking people. I don’t know who the hell this is. I dunno who Mark wrote for you. I know who that is.

 

Louis Virtel People need to think more critically and creatively about what they can do on stage. That is, honestly, one, interesting. Sure. But true, like, productive. Like, even if you just point out people in the room, be like, I love this person and I love the album they did. I agree. Direct this room of like, this captive audience to the arts. Do something.

 

Nina Parker Always, you know, I always wonder if it’s a shtick when they’re like, I wasn’t prepared for this. But I think they’re not because it’s often all over the place.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, though I will say we did get an example of someone seemingly not being prepared in an amazing way yesterday, which was Lola Young running up on stage. Excuse me, the vigor with which she went up there. It was giving, I want a refrigerator on The Price is Right, and I needed a refrigerator.

 

Nina Parker I loved it. I was like, oh, this feels very authentic.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yes. And again, it’s like nothing wrong with being prepared or whatever, but often when people are prepared, that means they’re prepared to bore you. Yes. You know? Yes. And she was like doing front handsprings.

 

Nina Parker Who’s the guy Duran… His run?

 

Louis Virtel It’s already a meme! It was a hard sprint.

 

Nina Parker HARD SPRING! JAP-

 

Louis Virtel Jack be Nimble.

 

Nina Parker He did a video later and showed that he was wearing clothes.

 

Louis Virtel That is the degree of difficulty.

 

Nina Parker Or mules, mules. The back was out.

 

Louis Virtel What? Was he in the Highland games?

 

Nina Parker Incredible run.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Nina Parker And congratulations.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, precisely. The Grammy spent a lot of time on best new artists and they gave us an entire medley which included Addison Rae, Cat’s Eye, Lola Young, Sombra, Olivia Dean, Leon Thomas, Alex Warren, and the Marias. What did you think of that whole circus of the stars?

 

Nina Parker This is best new artist. I don’t ever feel over 40 until I look at best new artists.

 

Louis Virtel Oh no, who are these people?

 

Nina Parker And then I said, who, who is that baby? No. Who is Cat’s Eye? It’s Cat’s eye. Who are these people saying gang gang? Baby, please. I said gang gang. You’re in white lace dresses, please! I am not the demographic for a lot of these artists. Except Olivia Dean is my girl, Olivia Dean.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, she’s kind of what I’m talking about, a blend of the old and the new.

 

Nina Parker She has joy in her voice. Like, I’ma tap my toe every time I hear Livia Dane. You know, I could be cussing you out. If the best way to shut me up, turn on some Livia Dean.

 

Louis Virtel Sure.

 

Nina Parker I’ma shut my ass up.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it’s very calming.

 

Nina Parker It’s calming, it’s like joyful.

 

Louis Virtel You know, it’s also like Sunday morning, like, I’m putting butter on a waffle.

 

Nina Parker IP!

 

Louis Virtel You know what I mean?

 

Nina Parker Melted butter! Yess.

 

Louis Virtel Please, you can feel the melting.

 

Nina Parker Her, I do like, it’s, who’s the guy? I’m gonna need, I’m the ordinary, who is that guy?

 

Louis Virtel Uh something went wrong with that track uh you think I’m a journalist. Mike was off. Yeah.

 

Nina Parker I said, who they said Alex up?

 

Louis Virtel And then they were like, and now you have to go to the sky.

 

Nina Parker And you you got all black background singers and you offbeat

 

Louis Virtel Tough.

 

Nina Parker You ain’t coming back from that. I like him and I’m definitely going to use him on my next reels. However, we’ve got to practice on this live thing. It was his ears were messing him up. The earpiece.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, you could tell he wanted to yank the thing out.

 

Nina Parker But you know, I’m always so shocked with the technical difficulties on such a large scale show. I don’t get it.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t get it. They clearly rehearse a bunch of times, right?

 

Nina Parker What’s going on? Yeah, I always feel like this has to be sabotaged because I know y’all

 

Louis Virtel Right, and a number of the other artists didn’t have that problem, so it’s like very strange. So it’s like very strange.

 

Nina Parker Are you an Addison Rae fan?

 

Louis Virtel Well, here’s the thing. I think she brings, I brought this up before, the actress Harry Neff has talked to me and she goes, she’s the only artist who operates from her puss. And there’s something about her delivery as an artist where it’s like, she does channel a kind of sexy rave like thing. There’s a quality about her that’s like actually sort of deep and the pop music is good. I didn’t say lyrically. I meant in spirit.

 

Nina Parker I have to admit, and I probably will get a lot of hate for this, I don’t mind her music.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, the music is good. No, I don’t-

 

Nina Parker Now, do I think she can sing? That’s a different question. No, she’s whispering nicely. Yeah, she is a whisper singer. It’s a bop. It is a TikTok, you know, post when you’re going out on a Saturday night. But I don’t mind her, you know, I think a lot of people dislike the fact that she’s like a TikToker, but I don’t mind her.

 

Louis Virtel I think as a performer, like she’s trying to do Tate McCray things and I have to say it’s like I’m not seeing the 10 years of gymnastics that should lead you to that.

 

Nina Parker Right. I think, like, it’s okay to just do a little two-step.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Nina Parker You know.

 

Louis Virtel One Step IT’S A

 

Nina Parker It’s a little bit, but I think what people are angry about is that there’s so many talented artists that aren’t getting the platform that she’s getting, so I completely get that.

 

Louis Virtel And that’s where I want to advocate for her because I do think she is kind of an interesting musician. There’s something about the record, it’s like somewhere between Sabrina Carpenter and something much moodier. Yeah, for sure. She’s very Sabrina Carperter.

 

Nina Parker But baby, listen, you turn on some diet Pepsi, I’m a groove.

 

Louis Virtel What a great song. Headphones on. I love that song too. Famous Again.

 

Nina Parker Turn it on! I know more about her than Cat’s Eye!

 

Louis Virtel I also want to say about Olivia Dean, I’ve seen a couple of people on Twitter criticize the fact that she’s maybe old lady music, or that she has a kind of calming vibe, but she’s not depressed, which is what people like. Yeah, yeah.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, yeah, she’s kind of a happy Amy Winehouse.

 

Louis Virtel I would describe her as Corinne Bailey Ray-ish. Yeah! And I just want to say, encouragingly to her… Leona Lewis vibe? Yes. I’ve never gotten to say this seriously to an artist. Girl, put your records on. We want them. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, yeah, I’m here for it. I haven’t heard one song I dislike

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Her and Tim’s right now are getting a good rotation. Speaking of representation, you know who I have to stand up for? Sombra, because I had that body throughout college. And when you feel 11 feet tall and you’re about 140 pounds and all you’re doing is eating, girl, I’ve been there. You go for it, Gumby. You put on that sparkly suit. Celebrate Gombi. I love that. Sombra fans are pokies. He’s Gombie, we’re pokies!

 

Nina Parker You’re speaking to Gen X right now, baby, with these Gumby references.

 

Louis Virtel Cuz who knows, po?

 

Nina Parker This is my curse. All I know is Pokey. That is inside baseball, baby. And you are speaking my language. I love a Pokey reference.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Now, elsewhere in the show, the highlight of the show. We got a huge in memoriam tribute that started

 

Nina Parker in one hour, ended about an hour and a half later. I have to say, I am usually disappointed by these, the memorials are never really good. Lauryn Hill was on time.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me, they told her it was at 12.

 

Nina Parker She was on time. I couldn’t believe it. Yeah. I definitely thought she was going to perform at the after show because I’m like, she ain’t making the main show, babes. I hope y’all got a backup. She made it.

 

Louis Virtel But she made it. I couldn’t get over that they slow rolled us because when she started, it seemed to just be a tribute to D’Angelo, which would have been great. Right, right, right. And she’s saying nothing even matters from this education of Lauryn Hill. Sounding great. And then… A Fugees reunion. They start adding people gradually and you realize, oh, it’s also a Roberta Flack tribute. And I did not think the tribute we’d get to her would be so thorough. So she starts and she doesn’t start with killing me softly. She starts with the first time ever I saw your face. Roberta Flack won two record of the year in a row for that and Killing Me Softly. And before we get to Killing me Softly, which we’re sort of aware we’re going to get, then we cut to John Legend and Shaka Khan doing one of the many duets that Roberta did. Yes, everybody sounded good. Yes. Mike was on. Shaka is always going to give it to you.

 

Nina Parker Always. And who was like a funk, fun vocalist like that? She’s still like one of one. That voice is still good and indistinctful.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, sweet and saucy. Yeah, right. I’m like, yes, Shaka go riffs. Every time, every time. And then we get back to Lauryn Hill and I’m expecting Killing Me Softly. I did not expect Wyclef to come out.

 

Nina Parker I didn’t either. Oh, I honestly, people were like, I was on threads and people were like, if White Clef comes to our site, she ain’t bringing him out.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I was very wrong. No, because, you know, they’ve lost each other’s numbers 50 times.

 

Nina Parker Prize in jail, Annie!

 

Louis Virtel Right. No, he’s not with us. No.

 

Nina Parker So we, I was glad that, I’m glad that they did, they buried the hatchet.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. This is exciting. And not only did they perform Killing Me Softly in the traditional Roberta Flack style, then Lauryn Hill was like, you know, we have to do this Fuji style. Yeah. And then we got that.

 

Nina Parker It was one of the best tributes I’ve seen in the last 10 years.

 

Louis Virtel The whole stage was vibrating, the whole audience was with it. That made me fucking wish I went to the Grammy.

 

Nina Parker I was actually like, this is probably one of the best, of course, they do the best one with the last year that it’s going to be on CBS. Yeah, right. You know, they, you know, yeah, the times have been changing. So yeah, I was excited. I thought it was great. Lauren was on time. She also did a lot of my friends went to an after party at the Beverly Hills Hotel had a big after party after the Grammys and she performed there too.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I believe I saw a clip of her doing X Factor there. You know what’s interesting is when that album came out at the time, it was sort of like doo-wop that thing. And then it was sort of made out to believe that the next huge single would be Everything Is Everything, which has a great video and a song I love. But really over time, X FACTOR has become like the definitive moment of that album.

 

Nina Parker X Factor got me through some things. X FACTOR got me, there’s a lot of tears. Yeah. So X FACTOR is still, to me it’s one of the most timeless albums of all time.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no, I mean, again, I have no problem with the fact that she’s never put out another album. Me either, actually, I get it. When you have those 17 songs.

 

Nina Parker When you have those 17 songs? I get it. I get. And I mean, I was listening to that when I was, you know, in college.

 

Louis Virtel And also, by the way, I love her weird little unplugged album. Yeah! She’s like, I’ve got a guitar, I’m doing like one and a half chords.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, she is a true artist, and she is, you know what I love about her, she’s unapologetic about her artistry, and even though I don’t agree with how she moves all the time, I respect it. Like her, Jill Scott, like they’re real, these are like, you don’t get artists like this anymore. They’re real just creatives, they move different, they think different, and I love that.

 

Louis Virtel I’m glad you brought up Jill Scott because I also think Olivia Dean is sort of in line with her. Yeah. She brings back, there’s a quality that I heard when I took a pop music class in college that has rang in my head ever since.

 

Nina Parker Excuse me, a pop music class!

 

Louis Virtel I took more than one. This is why I am the way I am.

 

Nina Parker I love this. You are a savant.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Sophisticated ease. That’s what they bring. You know, I mean, she’s sort of in line with Dionne Warwick in that way, where it’s not about belting. It’s about like a simmering lightness and sophistication. And then every once in a while, I say something a little sensual.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, a little bit. But Olivia is a great live performer, which to me, there are people’s music that I like that I would never go see them in concert. I’m like, listen, love you. But I know it’s a little extra things on little buttons. You got to push on this mic to really get the sound you want. Olivia, you can hear her in the subway and you know that she’s gonna sound the same.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, precisely. You know? She really did herself proud with that performance too. It was like pure vibe. Yes, she did great. I was surprised she didn’t close.

 

Nina Parker I was actually surprised about that. Justin Bieber, what did you think about him?

 

Louis Virtel Well, I’ll say this. I thought the performance was actually great and novel, but I think what’s underrated is they kept cutting in the audience to Hailey Bieber. I thought she was essential to the performance because he was bringing something that was kind of like intense, but maybe too intense, but they kept to her and she was like, love it. So she kind of kept placating the audience.

 

Nina Parker Yes, she did. She did. You know, he’s very, he comes across very sad to me.

 

Louis Virtel Right, no, even like when Trevor Noah was going through the audience kind of making jokes about everybody, I was like, skip him, skip.

 

Nina Parker He’s just always kind of, you know. Has had it. He’s Eeyore.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. You know, he’s Eeyore. And by the way- With the cloud over him. And it takes a lot to make a Canadian Eeyor. Yes, yes. They’re a happy people. Yes.

 

Nina Parker Yes, I just, I’m always like, you know, and I don’t know if it’s just maybe he’s not, he was also at that after party and he was having a great time. So I think mainly it’s not. It’s just, he doesn’t want to be at these award shows. I don’t think I think that’s what we’re seeing is like, he’s fine when it’s private, but in these big spotlights, he is just really uncomfortable still. I don think it’s something he ever got used to.

 

Louis Virtel No, and by the way, I do not stand boxer shorts in any way, but what he brought on that stage brought me back to middle school locker rooms. And you know what? Normally that’s a horrible memory for me. And I was like, all right, represent.

 

Nina Parker I was here for it, I like the song, so.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, best new artist as a category is so funny. It’s not about any particular album. It’s just something about you is the best and better than other people.

 

Nina Parker Right. And this is what I was saying earlier, people got to like you.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s just, do we like you? Yeah. That’s really what it is. LOL. So that was one award show, but we have a more important one called the Oscars. I know you’re dubious about award shows, but it is time for you to fill out the Oscar’s ballot, and of course, stuff my box.

 

Nina Parker I’ve never wanted anything more. All right, let’s talk about Best Picture.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, I have a feeling I know what you’re gonna pick.

 

Nina Parker Listen, it’s Black History book. Where you think I’m going? Sinners, baby. Best picture is gonna be sinners.

 

Louis Virtel And what spoke to you about this film?

 

Nina Parker I mean, I just, I felt it in my bones. I felt I wanted to be a vampire.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it was bone-chilling. Yeah, it-

 

Nina Parker Yeah, it was bone-chilling, but also just like, okay, so this is something about me a lot of people don’t know. I love anything vampire. It’s hard to find black vampire, you know, in that niche. And I really just loved all of the aspects of it. I really want, I know someone over at Ryan Coogler’s company and I reached out to him and I was like, you guys really need to do a spinoff with these Native American vampire hunters. I would watch that in a heartbeat. I really wanted them to listen to everybody when they say they want to see that. Is I love these cultural references infused in a traditional story. And I don’t think people understand how deeply there’s, first of all, there’s so many people of color who love fantasy and sci-fi and don’t see themselves represented in these worlds. So to have that representation in this, like, South racist time. There’s I interview with the vampire series is one of my favorite show. I love the show. It’s incredibly underrated And one thing i’ve always thought about is like I want to see how like a vampire who’s black fights racism And that show really gets on that a lot. So anyway centers is to me I’m like if you love centers, you will love interview with a vampire on amc like watch it So anyway, centers is is is it for me?

 

Louis Virtel Alright, will that translate into the Best Actor category too? It will! Yes.

 

Nina Parker First of all, Michael B Jordan played two people.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, I love an Oscar’s history of when you have like a Peter Sellers or a Lee Marvin or something.

 

Nina Parker And they were distinctively different people. They were so different. So I, I, and I also just thought he really tapped into something different. I think people like him, but I don’t think he gets enough. I do think he has a little pretty privilege where people talk about his looks.

 

Louis Virtel I think you know what people don’t talk about the best actor winners rarely hot so that’s like a hump people have to get over

 

Nina Parker Yes, I mean, look how long it took Denzel to win. Right, for best actor, yes, yeah. So I think it’s Michael’s time.

 

Louis Virtel Alright, best actress. Oh, I’m interested in

 

Nina Parker Hmmmmmmmm

 

Louis Virtel I think you’re going for the cry with Hamnet, but I could be wrong.

 

Nina Parker I was going to say Emma Stone.

 

Louis Virtel Oh really she really is good in that movie that movie sort of didn’t speak to me But I have friends who like vigorously defend it and it’s awkward between But she’s always good, she’s ALWAYS good.

 

Nina Parker She’s always good. She’s, listen, she’s reliable. Yeah. You know what I mean? And the thing is, I don’t particularly like her. I don’t she’s not a likable person. You don’t think so? No, I do.

 

Louis Virtel Deprecating

 

Nina Parker But I like that about her. I like the she doesn’t try.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, okay. There are some people who are- You like that she’s a lazy loser.

 

Nina Parker I feel like she’s like, I know I’m not likable, I don’t care, and I think it’s a little cunty.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, all right. While I’m not a fan, I respect it. Okay, okay.

 

Nina Parker Because I’ma be me in any room! Sure, sure. So go ahead, Emma!

 

Louis Virtel It’s a little bitchy, it’s okay. And who do you think for supporting actress? Oh, you know I gotta go with Moomi. She’s great. She’s one of those performances where I wish she had one more scene.

 

Nina Parker Yes, I agree. And I think like

 

Louis Virtel But I feel that way about Tiana and I’d vote for her.

 

Nina Parker I just feel like with Wimmy, I just felt like she was such a presence and I also loved that she was a plus size lead with this heartthrob and most of the time when it’s that, it’s a plot line. So if I’m a plus woman falling in love, then like we have to bring up my size or it has to be a part of the plot line and he was just loving her down and then they had a sex scene that was incredibly hot. And it was like… It just wasn’t a topic of conversation. It was just like, I’m a presence and I’m going to get loved and I deserve love. But also I’m strong. And a lot of times you don’t see that, especially with like black women. It’s like if they’re strong, then they can’t be soft. And she was a mix of all those things. And I just think she is so incredible in everything that she does. She’s an incredibly because if you see her interviews, she was very different from her characters. You know, she’s very bubbly, you know, but she plays these serious characters. She’s dope and she deserves all the things.

 

Louis Virtel Mm-hmm.

 

Nina Parker Yes. So I’m with her. Delroy Lindo for best supporting actor.

 

Louis Virtel We’ve been on this tip for like 150 years. It’s so time for his first nomination.

 

Nina Parker He’s kind of one of those older black actors that has been okay with, like, Hollywood ignoring him because this is always when I say there’s two Americas because I grew up watching Darylindo, right? I grew out watching him in everything. And there are people who are just knowing who he is for the first time.

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s like Morris Chestnut or something. It’s like certain people have seen him 25,000 times.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, you’re like, even people who are just now learning who Tiana is, I’m like, oh, hello, sweet 16!

 

Louis Virtel She’s been around for a long time!

 

Nina Parker So, Delroy, I think, you know, I’ve watched him in so much and he’s so seasoned. I’m glad I’m going to be able to see him just soak up the room even if he doesn’t win. But he deserves, he deserved wins a long time.

 

Louis Virtel Also, his inclusion in this category makes it a very interesting race because it’s hard to vote against him. Yeah, and it’s like if there’s a center sweep, he has a real chance and what do we have left down there?

 

Nina Parker Okay, we got best director

 

Louis Virtel Oh, well, you obviously have to go with Ryan.

 

Nina Parker Listen, this is Black History Month. I don’t know what you thought. I don’t know what anybody thought was gonna happen today. Happy February. The groundhog is here. Ryan Coogler, I love him. I’m from the Bay Area, by the way. So, you know, please, please. I wouldn’t do anything else.

 

Louis Virtel Also, Sinners is up for best casting, right? Absolutely. That is, I mean, it’s a fabulously cast movie.

 

Nina Parker Oh my gosh, incredible. Miles Canton-like. Sinners to me is just the gift that keeps on giving. How scary did you find Hailee Steinfeld? Because I found her.

 

Louis Virtel Scary.

 

Nina Parker Oh, quite scary!

 

Louis Virtel Quite scary for a lot of reasons. Yeah, and also Irish dancing is frightening.

 

Nina Parker Oh my gosh, but do you, you know what I love? Uh, a white vampire being offended by being called the KKK. He was like, sir, when you got a demon who is offended to be part of your group, you are on the wrong side. He said, I don’t rip a neck out, but I’ll be damned if I burn a cross.

 

Louis Virtel Wow, you need to be like the dramaturg for these movies. Oh my god. Okay, thank you for that.

 

Nina Parker Yes. I’m happy to submit. And those are my picks.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, thank you. Go right here.

 

Nina Parker Now it’s going right in that box, baby. Ooh, ooh.

 

Louis Virtel Ah.

 

Nina Parker Ha ha ha ha!

 

Louis Virtel Right in the crevice. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Our guest this week is a legendary writer and actor you know from shows like Girls 5 Eva, Long May It Slay, and AP Bio. Her work as a writer on Saturday Night Live has lifted performers like Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, and Maya Rudolph to superstardom. You can see her now in The Burbs, a new comedy series starring Keke Palmer and Jack Whitehall on Peacock, Sunday, January 8th, after the Super Bowl. Please welcome to keep it Paula Pell.

 

Paula Pell  Thank you for having me.

 

Now, The Burbs is based on- I’m thrilled to be here. Oh, I’m thrilled to have you. And I was just saying to Paula. I’ve seen everything you’ve ever done. So I am-.

 

Paula Pell  Are you my mother?

 

Louis Virtel I’m sorry to say I might be. Yeah. Such a thrilling person. And I’m, I’ll start by saying the arc of your life is so interesting. I can’t think of another person who wrote for so long and now acts so regularly. Are you astounded by just the order of your

 

Paula Pell  A true dream, I always say I was born at 50. I have pictures of me at 13 playing like a six-year-old woman in something on stage with gray spray in my hair. And if you looked at it, you would 100% think that I was in my 50s or 60s. And I was 13. If I opened my mouth, you’d see the braces. But I was very much the kind of wise old owl matron when I was growing up and, cause I was closeted gay and I was just like. The one that all the girls came to to ask about their love life and everything. And I always played the character roles in everything. And I wasn’t old enough a lot of times. So they’d be like, we’d love to have you do this, but we’re gonna get somebody that age to do that. And so I finally aged into what I really should be playing. And that’s been a thrill. And I have to thank Tina and Amy for as years went by and they left SNL and they created these. Fantastic hit shows and they would say, do you wanna come be Pete Hornberger’s wife or like Tammy Zero? And those are the things that I was never nervous doing theater all those years when I was young and in college, I was always nervous. And when I came back to acting, or even if I had one line at SNL, cause I did a lot of monologs, you’re on a cue card, you think it would be nerve wracking. And I always just, I would do like one person plays playing Emily Dickinson, I’d be on stage like talking for an hour. I was never nervous. And after those years of not doing it and taking that hat off as a writer, I was so fucking terrified. And because, especially at SNL, it’s live, if you mess up your one line, it never leaves your body. It’s like a poison in your bones because you’re like, well, I sure showed them my chops. I couldn’t get one line out that was written on a card that they’re pointing at.

 

Louis Virtel I relate to that, by the way, though, because I think if you have one line, you have no choice but to overthink it again and again and all the ways it could go wrong.

 

Paula Pell  Absolutely.

 

Louis Virtel Whereas if you have lines and lines and material, you have no choice but to just live in it.

 

Paula Pell  Exactly, and in theater, there’s so many lines and so many monologs, it’s so much more talky than action and TV and film stuff. So I was used to just diving into some monolog where you could really sit and get into it and feel like you were sort of in the character, not in a big method way, but like really inhabiting the situation and it takes you out of it a little so you’re not nervous. But when I started doing just short things, That was scary. And then as I started doing, we did very first thing really was Hudson Valley Ballers that James Anderson, fellow SNL writer and roommate in college, best friend of mine. And another best friend, Michelle Lawler, who’s a cinematographer and a writer. She and James and I created Hudson Valley ballers, which was complete fever dream of just crazy sketches that we did. And we did two seasons of that online. It was like a web series. And that was the first time I had. Really let loose again and, you know, put on wigs and makeup and costumes and really did comedy again as an actor. And I, man, I got the fever bad. Oh, good. I was like, oh man, I forgot how much I love doing this.

 

Louis Virtel And now you’re on The Burbs, which is of course based on the Tom Hanks movie from the 80s.

 

Paula Pell  Yes, loosely, loosely based, but yes, it’s.

 

Louis Virtel And you’re with a wacky ensemble. I mean, like, Hikki Palmer, to me, is one of the celebrities I am most grateful for because of the old school chops she brings. And also, she is so extemporaneous. I’ve never seen someone just like pop with one-liners the way she does.

 

Paula Pell  She’s unreal, she’s unreal. And she’s so, she is one of those people that when you work with her every day, you’re looking and you’re like, I do not know where you put the energy that you have in you to do all the things you’re doing at the same time. Because I am a big multi-tasker, I always got multiple things going on and I’ve prided myself in doing that. But I’m 62, but she is truly, like she’ll be getting makeup on at the Burbs and doing a podcast, doing an interview. You know working on a music video on the weekend after shooting a full week of an hour-long show But also the kindest most real like she was just immediately. I just the first day I was like, oh, I’m gonna love her and everyone else and it’s a pretty small amazing cast, you know, Julia Duffy mark prox

 

Louis Virtel Julia, that would be so good on New Heart. New Heart, a show people do not talk about anymore.

 

Paula Pell  Oh, just so many funny, funny people with like real chops. And then Jack Whitehall, who I just adore. There’s just so much good people in it, but we bonded pretty quickly. And I had never done anything that wasn’t kind of hard comedy except for Dying for Sex. Even though Dying For Sex is comedy in it for sure, but my part was not as, it had comedy in, but it was It was such a mix, but in the burbs, it’s so fun because I’ve never done anything involving like a murder mystery and I watch a lot of procedurals. So I enjoyed that you would get the script and not know what’s gonna happen. And sometimes you’d be reading it going, oh my God, oh my god, I did not realize that twist. So that was really fun. And also just being able to play my favorite kind of thing to watch. Like my favorite movie is Terms of Endearment. Like my favorite things. That have both because I live that my whole life. I’ve been kind of an optimist and a depressive person at the same time. Ever since I was little, like my journals were very dramatic of like, I haven’t had depression in months. I sounded like an old Victorian lady all the time. I use the word shall a lot. I shall never forget this day. But then I’d be so joyful about something and then I be like so dark. And I love the two sides of life. And now we’re certainly seeing the two side of life very clearly every day on the news and everything. And so I just feel like, you know, you really have to be holding on. I can’t get up in the morning if it’s only dark, but I also, if it is only bright, I’m suspect, I’m suspicious of it because it’s like there’s always that dark underpinning.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I was going to bring up Dying for Sex because it’s interesting on that show, Michelle Williams’s character is exploring her sexuality after she gets this terminal diagnosis. But then afterwards, it becomes this like kind of darker, more somber show where your character comes in and explains what she will go through in the days leading up to death, basically. And that is just, I don’t know that I would immediately think Paula Pell would love to play a character like that. What was that experience like?

 

Paula Pell  I was so grateful to be thought of. I think my rep, Sam Korn, was talking to them and they were talking about this project and I think she brought up my name and I knew the creators of the show some. So it was kind of a perfect storm of them kind of knowing me and her mentioning me. But it was one of the absolute top experiences of my entire life so far as an actor. You know, I was in a room with… You know, Jenny Slate and, and Michelle Williams and sissy freaking Spacek. I know who was just sort of lingering in the back sometimes. And I just shot one day, one or two, no, a couple of days, I guess. And I came in the first day and had a five page monolog. And it was what happens to your body when you die. And I’m across from a hospital bed holding Michelle Williams’ hand while tears come down her face while sissy Spacek’s tears come down her faced where Jenny Slates’ tears come. Explaining gently to them what your body, what happens to your body when it dies. And I have actually been, I have done hospice with a friend in New York City years ago that was a neighbor. We moved in with her in the last couple weeks of her life and did, were her hospice support team, a couple friends of hers and myself. And I was there when she went and I was the only one there for hours after she went. And I was just sitting with her, in her house. And I’ve witnessed that with family members. I’m very fascinated by… That process, so it was really feeding my soul to talk about it, to read. They wrote it so beautifully. They really studied palliative care, hospice nurses, and there’s one nurse on Instagram that’s kind of a cheerful hospice nurse, and that kind of inspired the part of, you know, when I’d be like, you what I really think is cool about, and they’re looking, they’re like, can you just fucking cool it, Amy? You know, but it really, it just devastated me, but in that way, that’s also so life-affirming because it’s an amazing, terrible process to watch.

 

Yeah, right. Again, before that role, we tend to associate you with these, like, broader comic performances moments. But did you ever find that kind of bittersweet quality in, like even those broader roles?

 

Paula Pell  Oh, for sure. Like I always used to say at SNL, I wrote Joyful Losers because I am that and when I was growing up, I was that of like, you know, my journal would be like, I changed the grid on my rock tumbler and the amethyst is really, you now, I just really had this verve for just life but I also could get my heart broken so easily. But then in college, weirdly, I went to University of Tennessee the last couple of years of college and they had a great theater program. I was getting all these character roles in dramas. So I was the nun in Agnes of God. I was in- Interesting Jane Fonda movie. I was, the lawyer in, it was all of the eighties, all the big Broadway dramas of the 80s that were on Broadway. Beth Henley and all those people again. Extremities, which is about rape and, you know, I mean, I did so many heavy dramas then and I fricking loved it. I just love, love doing it, but I also love that. This part in Dying for Sex and some other things that even the burbs, there’s times where you can choke up and you can have the sadness in your character and then you can go really hard with the comedy. That’s my joy because that’s what life is, you know.

 

Louis Virtel Now, speaking of SNL, you started there in 1995, correct? 95, yeah. Yes, now that is the beginning of a very important era to gay men who are exactly my age, because I think a litmus test question I like to ask people, namely other gay guys my age but also you, is whether you identify most as a Molly Shannon, Anna Gasteyer, or Sherry O’Terry, because I truly think it’s like, they come together as a trident, but they are three different goddesses.

 

Paula Pell  Very different. That’s such a good question to ask people. I will not answer it because they’re all my good friends.

 

Louis Virtel I bet they all seem so rad too

 

Paula Pell  Yeah, I wrote a lot with all three of them, but, you know, I did the cheerleaders with Sherry and I did Bobby and Marty with Anna. And just my favorite things of all Are to write and play those kind of characters that they were so good at. I mean, one of our things that would make us laugh the hardest when we did the 50th, we did a Bobby and Marty for that concert. Yes, which was fabulous. Anna did not miss a beat. Oh my God, we rehearsed that thing up until like three seconds before they walked on stage. We were up on the fourth floor of Radio City just like with keyboard, like the guy from the roots, like just completely going over it and over it and over and over. They nailed it. But we would laugh so hard. The parts we’d write where it’s obvious that the unseen audience in the sketch is giving them the finger when they just be like, you know, the middle finger really isn’t the, like just that Bobby and Marty, like it would make us laugh so hard of how we launched, who was doing what, or throwing something at them, but it was always unseen, you know? And there’s something about that. And also the cheerleaders, you now, the cheer leaders were hated. Those two characters. They are, they are. And when I was growing up, I tried out every year for cheerleading. I was very strong, but I was the heaviest girl in school. I was strong. I got to where I could do a back handspring. I could things of that era. Like you look at cheerleading now in any era of school or dance classes, there are big girls. And it just makes me cry because I’m like, God, I wish I could have had the experience of athletics, because I loved being athletic. Nobody wanted me. I wanted to be a cheerleader, nobody wanted me. So I would hold the purses, I’d hold everyone’s purse and keep like cough drops and everything in the stands. And I knew all the cheers. I was like a dance mom, but I was 10 and 13. And the one thing that I was able to do obviously was like choir, music, theater, because all the, you know, they took anyone.

 

Louis Virtel I know we have to bring up terms of endearment since you’ve already just said that. Now a movie I love, a best actress winning performance I love Shirley MacLaine in that movie. What is your favorite part of that movie? Cause truly like that movie has lots of prongs like Jack Nicholson is his own storyline. You’ve got John Lithgow, you know.

 

Paula Pell  Heartbreaking, heartbreaking. A couple come to mind, and I worked with Jada Apatow on a couple movies and he knows James L. Brooks so well and they had talked so many times, he had questioned him because he’s such a curious person about comedies and movies and history of them. And he would ask him all these things. So he would pass on because he knew that was my favorite movie. Is one of my favorite parts, these are little tiny moments of Shirley, two of them, is one of them is when… Jack Nicholson is starting to pull away and be an asshole to her. And he just is like, I just think, I don’t think we should, like in a gazebo or somewhere, I just don’t. And he’s talking and she goes blah, blah, and she just has this loose jaw, like blah, like I’ve heard it before, like fuck, you know, like that. And then at the end when they’re all having that post funeral thing in the yard when she’s sitting and her little granddaughters. Over on the other side and she just pats her lap. Come here, come here. And the kid just keeps scooting over until she’s over by her. And then the other one is when, and he told me this was improvised too because I think that whole end was improvized. But when that kid, those kids in that movie were so good and so natural and so unbelievable, you didn’t get that terrible feeling of like, oh God, what they put these kids through to get this performance. They just. Knew how to tap into it, they were so good at getting them to be in that moment. But that older kid who was always so angry in it and everything, he would get that strip, I always call it like when young boys, when they’re uncomfortable and they get that little strip of red on their face, that little blush. And Jack Nicholson is like, hey, you want to come over and see my, I’ve been up in space and he’s like gonna show him things. And he’s like, well, I don’t know if it would be appropriate. And he’s in that little suit, you know, and he goes, come on. And he was like, okay. And it’s just so life-affirming, but also just so funny at the same time. I just remember growing up knowing like every line from it and you know it was of the era in terms of the big sad death scene and everything, but everything about it to me is just perfection.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Oscar-winning performances, you yourself have written for the Oscars before and other award shows, and which strikes me as something I would definitely want you to be in the room for if I were working on an award show because you’re so joke-oriented like that. Do you have favorite jokes that have gotten onto these telecasts?

 

Paula Pell  You know…I got to be honest, I love doing it. I love writing them. It’s really hard. It’ s hard, especially for monologs. I don’t usually write. I usually, you know, and now these days, like with if Amy or Tina, when they would do the Golden Globes, I would always send in jokes. You know, I was in like a circle of their friends that would send in some jokes, but it’s very difficult to write them. And because they always have so many great joke writers doing it, I, you, know, a lot of times I just wouldn’t get anything on, but make the cut the first time and then they wouldn’t do it because they had just so many good jokes. They would just, you know, so I’m not bitter about it. No, I’m kidding.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, they seem very joke-oriented, too. Like Tina knows what the joke she wants is.

 

Paula Pell  Yes. And also just sometimes the simplest joke, I was just watching a clip. I love watching when clips come up from Golden Globes of Tina and Amy’s era. And, also, I think Nikki’s doing a great job. Tina, maybe the other day when came up and I had forgotten about that. Catherine Bigelow joke about John Cameron.

 

Louis Virtel I just trust the woman about torture who was with James and Cameron for two years or whatever.

 

Paula Pell  With James Cameron for two years, and just the look of everyone, like that’s the kind of joke at the Golden Globes you want where everyone gasps, but also they just laugh so hard. You don’t see like a lot of judgment. You don’t a lot people going like, because sometimes on those shows, you see the audience and you go, okay, those are the guys that will go on Instagram and say how appalled they were. Those are the guys that you can just see people’s faces. When they would do that show, it would just be like just tables full of drunks just going. Oh, everyone was a queen. Everyone was a gay man. Everyone turned into a gay men. It just pure delight because you can get to that edge and there really is an edge you go over where people go, Oh, I don’t know if you need to hit him for that. But man, that joke and the George Clooney joke of like, he’s getting a lifetime achievement award and his wife and they name all the things his wife has done. Like, also, there’s something about- Humanitarian lawyer.

 

Louis Virtel There’s something about Tina and Amy, too, where they seem like such adults, too. So it’s like you couldn’t get mad at them for like, quote, unquote, immaturity or whatever. Like, I don’t I can’t remember really raising a cane at them for like doing the wrong thing ever. They like that. You just believe that they had an authority about them, almost like a newsman quality.

 

Paula Pell  They’re just such pros. And when you’re at SNL and you’re trying to please Lauren, you’re tying to please the audience, you see in real time, not pleasing the audience. You get things cut in real-time. You have something you’ve worked on all week and you look up and the index card has moved over and the show’s about to start and you have to call your family and go, you can go to bed. It’s not gonna be on. The musical number that I rehearsed all week is not gonna to be on So talking of SNL, every week I still have something. And my wife, Janine Brito is like an incredible writer and performer and used to do a lot of standup, but she and I just, I’ll lay in bed and I’ll be like, I just thought of something for SNL. Like I, and I do go back and guess right sometimes, but I just really need to start keeping a Bible of that because then on the weeks I go, I wouldn’t have that terror still on Tuesday nights I still where I’m just like, I got nothing. Because you never have nothing, like I got nothing.

 

Louis Virtel That’s funny that you say that, because I remember watching an interview also with you where you talked about how it took years when you were on SNL before you got to the point not to be whatever, devastated by like a table reading that went poorly or whatever.

 

Paula Pell  At the table read I got so used to failing because if you do enough and you go, I’ve got enough, like I’ve done enough recurring stuff, I have done enough stuff that’s done well, nobody’s going to immediately look and go, why is she here? In the first couple of years, that’s what you feel every time you fail because sometimes if you that too many times, they do have meetings.

 

Louis Virtel Where they’re like… And also people do get fired on that show.

 

Paula Pell  And they’ll kindly say, because I’ve been in those meetings where they’re like, I don’t know if this person is gonna work out. They’re not like eviscerating them, they’re not being horrible. They really aren’t. They’re a kind group of people, but man, you sit there and picture them up on the, but I’ve had a lot of therapy and I had a therapist one time, I was furious at that said, you’re not that important. And I went home and just fumed about it. And then it has been like my mantra the rest of my life and especially at SNL where You’re like, I have told younger people there when they were having a meltdown about, you know, thinking they’re gonna get fired, they did something terrible, like they didn’t get a, you know they just, the sketch died, whatever. Something they wrote was somebody did terribly at the table. And I would say to them, I promise you, the minute that table read was over, the minute the sketch was over they’re thinking of something else, nobody is in a room with your head shot up on the wall and like a pointer. They’re just not. Because you’re not that important in the scheme of things right now. They’re doing a live show, they’re working on the rest of what’s there. They’ve moved on. And so that’s good news. They’ve move on and they’re not thinking of you. You’re insignificant right now, and that helps me now in life, period, when I get, because I used to be so codependent and so worried about, did I piss, do you think that I said that rudely? Did I piss them off? Did I make them, is somebody like being quiet with me because they’re And now I’m just like, if they are mad at me, they will come and talk to me about it and we’ll talk it out, like, you know.

 

Louis Virtel I have to ask, you also are now writing with Janine Brito, your wife, and you’ve obviously had years of practice collaborating with all sorts of people, but what’s this particular collaboration like?

 

Paula Pell  You know, after SNL I have to say I kind of didn’t do much collaboration for a long time. I just liked for once to really be by myself and like really do it how I wanted to do it and kind of keep track of it and then I because I was a codependent person sometimes if I was with another person I was afraid to say, oh, I don’t like that as much. I like this better. You know, I hated all the. Emotional like stuff you have to walk over and everything. And now I’m so much different because I have no filters now and I’m just much more of a direct, honest person. I’m not as codependent at all anymore. But Janine is such a great writer and joke writer and she’s really good at story. So we will sit and she’ll just come up with the answer. Like we’ll pass it back and forth to each other. We’ve written a few things together now. And even when one of us is doing something where we need jokes for it, or we need, you know, we just bounce off each other. I never wanted to be with a comedy person. My first wife was not in comedy. She was a funny person, but she was not in comedy at all. She wasn’t in the biz at all, and when I met Janine, I was like, oh, I don’t know if I wanna be with, but she’s just not on all the time. She’s not a person that needs it every second to be like having you. Think she’s funny, and I’m not like that either. I promise I’m Not. I know I have no pants on right now, Louis. And you still haven’t laughed at it. You’re just worried for me. You called my nurse. But she and I think a lot alike, but sometimes enough different to where we collaborate really, really well. And we just, she’s a joyful, you know, she’s just a fricking golden. Golden pot at the end of the fricking rainbow.

 

Louis Virtel Uh, my last question for you is how necessary is it for you to watch comedy nowadays, like as somebody who like writes so much of it, do you feel like you need to have a diet of it yourself or

 

Paula Pell  It’s probably necessary, but I’ve been very bad at it, I gotta be honest, because I do love dramas and I have kind of, some people would call it, like not as kind of showbiz savvy. Like I oftentimes don’t watch the things that everyone’s watching of like, oh my God, this, have you watched this? Some of it is just being too busy and not, I hate starting something that I know that I’m gonna have to wait another. Oh, I’m not gonna be able to watch the last five of these for the next, you know, so then I’ll stay up all night and watch something. But I watch like, I watch all my soaps on CBS that I’ve watched my whole life. I love when people still watch soaps. I watch, I watched.

 

Louis Virtel It’s so about a kind of character quality.

 

Paula Pell  I watch a lot of HGTV, I love HG TV. I love House Hunters and all those love it or list it. I watch lot of procedurals on network TV. There’s something about network TV that’s so comforting to me. I love Chicago night on NBC and watching all the Chicago med and all of those. And I loved the pit. That was one of the ones that I like really sat and binge the whole thing. And I’m starting, you know, I just started. I did just start watching Traders, which I’ve never watched. And I was giving Janine so much shit because she loves it and watched it and I don’t get it. Like we started watching it. I’m talking about the rules. I get the, they’re all hilarious, funny characters and I like reality, but I’ll just sit there. I’ll be like the first episode, there were so many rules and I’m like, I cannot contain this in my body and sort it out. I was not good at like geometry. I was good at algebra. I cannot. Keep these steps of this, this, and if not that, then this. And then you get the golden apple, but not the thing. And if you bite the thing, the golden firework blows up in your butt. And I’m like, I do not know what the fuck is going on. And then I watched like two of them. And then, I was like, okay, I’m in. Because I like how they’re lying. I like how the traders lie. It cracks me up. Like I really laugh at how they’re lying. And when you see Lisa Rinna lying.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah, we were just unpacking how Traders is both extremely entertaining, and yet also kind of a bad game. Like it’s like, the Traders have no real responsibilities. So like, what am I solving?

 

Paula Pell  Right, right, right.

 

Louis Virtel But I’m just guessing that you look like a liar.

 

Paula Pell  Yes. Yeah. There’s a lot of people in different rooms talking and fake eating. I love when they fake eat on those shows where there’s just like the healthy guys are eating a bunch of vegetables, but it looks like cold and it looks TV food. They’ve been there for six hours. They’re not eating that shit.

 

Louis Virtel Paula Pell, thank you so much for being here.

 

Paula Pell  Thank you so much.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god.

 

Paula Pell  So fun.

 

Louis Virtel Also you’re so funny and also so educational. Like I’m like remembering things like that you’ve said that are so fabulous.

 

Paula Pell  Thank you so much. It’s great to meet you.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Last Friday, we received the devastating news that Catherine O’Hara had died at the age of 71. We could go on for hours about her legacy and what made her such a brilliant performer. But Nina, what was the first movie or show of hers that came to mind when you heard the news?

 

Nina Parker I think for a lot of people, home alone is what they think of, but for me, best in show.

 

Louis Virtel Oh gosh.

 

Nina Parker I can’t tell you how near and dear Best in Show is to my heart. I randomly was in the house with my sister and we were flipping channels and I was like, let’s watch this movie. And we had no idea what it was. And when I tell you we laughed for two hours and now it’s literally like a thing in my family to watch Best in show. And so I just think she was a comedic genius and she’s like one of those actors that never took themselves too seriously and just. Really brought it, but there was no ego. But also Beetlejuice was huge for me too as a kid.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sure.

 

Nina Parker Huge Beetlejuice watchers. So, probably BeetleJuice as a kid, as an adult, Best in Show. Those were the two, like, iconic films for me.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it’s interesting you bring up those two movies, Best in Show and Beetlejuice, because I think they also highlight something about Catherine O’Hara that hasn’t been said much, which is the brilliant physical comedy. Yeah. And BeetleJuice, the big banana boat day-o song, her movement in that scene is so funny. So good, yes. And it’s like, she obviously comes from improv, she has her history with SCTV and that whole company of people we associate her with, Eugene Levy, whom she worked with for more than 50 years, et cetera. And in Best in Show, she has that famous limp after her leg and they’re like, oh, there’s something wrong with your leg. And she looks like she’s falling apart.

 

Nina Parker She is so incredible, she will be missed. I’m so sad to hear about it. And she was just always, I was watching old interviews of her and she was kind of like acting was what she did, but she was one of those people who had a regular life too, outside of it. Like she allowed herself to not be soaked up in her celebrity and I really loved that about her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she had sort of a shrug about her like, she’s like real workman-like when it came to putting a sketch together, creating a character, but then otherwise she’s like, oh, was that funny? Who knows? Maybe it did work, you know? She took herself seriously. She took the work seriously, but she didn’t take herself.

 

Nina Parker Yes, I think there was like a paparazzi interview, one of her last, where they were like, you’re one of my favorites. She was like, please. Like, she was like please, honey.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, I really think she was having taste in that moment and being like, some people would have just said, fuck off, but she was just like, stop it, you know? Yes, exactly. Like there was like a bit of grace there. Yes.

 

Nina Parker Yes, but I’m like, I don’t know if she knew that she was everybody’s favorite.

 

Louis Virtel But she really was. And also by the way, so obviously she had this renaissance with Schitt’s Creek. And I think we take for granted the fact that that did not have to happen. Basically, she was famous in all these Christopher Guest movies. She does have this history in SCTV. It was not a guarantee that this woman would come back and be frankly a superstar. I honestly don’t think most people knew her name from Home Alone or knew her from Best in Show. So for her to come and command in this zany role. I always say something I like about Schitt’s Creek is it feels like everybody on the show was sort of workshopping crazy characters and they all picked their favorite. Yes, exactly. And then they decided to make a show around those characters.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, and such a good, such a good collaboration of talent and humor and just like pseudo-seriousness and it just works.

 

Louis Virtel No, I have to give credit to Dan Levy for being the architect of this incredible moment for her. And also, I had to say, look, if she was going to leave us now, the one-two punch of her performance as Moira Rose on Schitt’s Creek and then also her work on the studio tells you so much of what you need to know about this woman. Because Moira rose, so she can do zany, come up with a delivery you would never think of that’s inimitable, that is so funny. If you try to repeat it to somebody else, you’re actually failing the joke and the delivery. Right, a thousand percent.

 

Nina Parker Only she could do it. Yes. Only she can do it and then I was so pleasantly surprised because I knew the studio was coming. I wasn’t sure who was in it. I just really was thinking about Seth and then, I see her and I’m like, oh, you know, there’s certain actors who it’s not a Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt, but you’re Like, if they’re in it, it’s gonna-

 

Louis Virtel Don’t be good. Yes. There’s a quality about her where it’s like, I would say she’s sort of the Julie Andrews of comedy. Yeah. We all agree there’s a brilliance there, but aside from that, when you see her on screen, you feel taken care of. Yes, agree. There’s like a comfort, like the talent is comforting. You know? Yeah.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, I definitely am like, there are certain people where I’m like, oh, anything they’re in, I’m watching. I don’t care what it’s about. Yeah. And she is definitely that.

 

Louis Virtel And I want to say also about this studio, not only was she extremely funny on that as the sort of veteran of the business who had seen everything, it also gave you a chance to see just how good of a straight actress she is. She is so convincing. She’s not winking. She’s, it’s not all like, well, here comes a crazy eccentric person. Like that character did have eccentricities, but it was really just a believable industry veteran.

 

Nina Parker But she could play like goofy characters, but she wasn’t goofy. Yes. Because I think sometimes when people think goofy, they think physical. She was able to like really give like quirks to things, but like the delivery was very unique.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right.

 

Nina Parker And I really love that about her.

 

Louis Virtel Something else I love is, so early in her career on SCTV, and I want to say on that show, she was nominated for four Emmys in one year for writing various episodes of that. Imagine just you wake up one day and you go from zero Emmy nominations to four. That happened to her. She had 10 by the end of her life. But like lots of people in sketch comedy at the time, she cut her teeth playing a lot of famous people. And I’ve been enjoying watching these old clips of her doing a very insane Catherine Hepburn impression. She’s one of the first people whoever did a Meryl Streep impression. And then she became friends with Meryl after working with her on the movie Heartburn. And Meryle gave one of the great tributes to Catherine O’Hara over the weekend, too, talking about the audience she graced as friends. Love the wording on that because there is a quality about her. It’s like, we did have her once on this podcast, actually. Oh, wow. But other than that, I do feel like I know Catherine O’Hara. Yeah, that’s sad. It’s parasocial. Like, I really do feel She was pleasantly authentic at all times. And that meant, you know, she could disappear for a while, but then come back and be happy to be working and then go away. It’s just like, you sort of understood the mechanism of her, even just casually.

 

Nina Parker People dying who ain’t died before. Yeah, right. It’s a tragedy. I can’t take it.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, no, and I want to say it is very hard to pick a favorite role of hers. I rewatched A Mighty Wind over the weekend, which is another mockumentary in the Christopher Guest world. And you forget that not only was she a darling singer, she had like a lovely voice, which of course, when you come from improv, usually you do have to sing sometimes. But the sweetness of that performance and she sings A Kiss at the End of the Rainbow, which is a song written by Michael McKeen and his wife, Annette O’Toole, Oscar nominated. The performance of that, which then went to the Oscars where she and Eugene Levy sing this folky song and then have this sweet kiss. I can’t think of another Oscars moment like it. It was a musical performance that also had comedy in it. And so it’s like you got to see her do her improv thing but on the stage at the Oscurs while also delivering a song. All the quadrants of her talent in one place. I really recommend watching that again.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, one of one.

 

Louis Virtel Also, where would mockumentaries be without Catherine O’Hara, you know?

 

Nina Parker I don’t know. She’s just, oh, this is a sad thing for Hollywood. And, you know, there are people who I just, there’s nothing. Some people you can see and you’re like, oh they kind of remind me of so-and-so. There’s no one that I’ve, yeah, I feel like she’s one of one.

 

Louis Virtel And I think a big part of that is her Canadian-ness. Like, there’s like a real sense of like, I’m happy to be one of 11 people in this ensemble doing my one little scene, or I can run the whole show if you need me to, you know?

 

Nina Parker It’s, it’s very like empowering when you, I think everybody always wants to be the main character. And I think what you find with her is like, she would kind of, she, you know, get in where she fits in and just command that moment. If it was like an hour on the screen or 10 minutes, and she’s going to be memorable.

 

Louis Virtel There are certain people who just by sheer virtue of them participating in the entertainment industry makes you like the entertainment industry more. Yes. Like, cause she was kind of better than all the rigmarole that we put people through. There was an interview quote going around that was actually cut from the interview it was supposed to be in, but the journalist posted it about how she was asked how being in entertainment has changed over the past 50 years. And she said that doing press, you have to do all these things for like social media and like young people will ask her to repeat. Like an iconic line of hers on camera and she’ll say, why do you want me to do this? And their response is, oh, don’t be nervous. You can say it however you want. She goes, no, it’s not about being nervous. I have taste. I love that there’s sort of like a steely backbone on the other side of this very welcoming, gracious presence.

 

Nina Parker I call it Quiet Riot.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you know.

 

Nina Parker You know, when someone’s like, yes, it’s a very like stoic, you know, it not rude, but it’s like when you’re, that confidence, like she was grounded.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, one year at the SAG Awards, I went with a friend of mine who I’ll say, lovely man, one of my best friends, got a little drunk. Got a little drug. After the SAGA Awards let out, and you know it’s just a table after table of famous actor, my friend, like a golden retriever, runs up to Catherine O’Hara, Catherine O’Hara and her lovely husband, Beau. And she goes, Catherine, we love you, whatever, goes on. Normally, in that instance, I’m already mortified. He’s a guest of me. I want to be clear, I write for the SAG awards now.

 

Paula Pell  Oh, it’s your plus one.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, yeah, yeah.

 

Nina Parker Oh, you can’t act up as the plus one. The invitee can get a little sloppy. The plus one, you tighten up. Tighten up, tighten your ass up.

 

Louis Virtel And let’s just say, a job was on the line for me. I write for the SAG Awards. Oh my gosh. Okay, okay, and we get there. What does Catherine O’Hara do? She goes, thank you so much. She introduces us to her whole family.

 

Nina Parker Oh, what a sweetheart!

 

Louis Virtel TOO NICE!

 

Nina Parker Oh my gosh.

 

Louis Virtel Painfully too nice.

 

Nina Parker You’re like, you do not have to do all this.

 

Louis Virtel You could have dug your ring into my eye. We could have been punched to the floor.

 

Nina Parker There are some people, and I don’t use this word a lot, but there are some who are just lovely.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right.

 

Nina Parker You don’t say that about everyon, right?

 

Louis Virtel No, no, no.

 

Nina Parker But it fits for her.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like a dead quality. We don’t do lovely anymore.

 

Nina Parker I don’t call anyone lovely.

 

Louis Virtel Outside from Olivia Dean.

 

Nina Parker Yes, Olivia Dean is lovely. Yes. There’s certain people who just fit it.

 

Louis Virtel Lovely is like a genre.

 

Nina Parker It really is, and it’s very rare that you’re a lovely. I’m not a lovely!

 

Louis Virtel No, please, honey, I’m German. I’m glowering now and I’m having a good time. It doesn’t need to be said, but it just is beyond belief. It’s beyond belief, we will miss her. It is definitely a void. She will be missed. And luckily we have years and years of her comedy look back. And by the way, so much is underrated. If you see her in Orange County where she plays Colin Hanks’ mom, there is a hilarious scene in that movie where she starts thrashing that she wants to go back to bed and throws all the pillows on the bed on the floor. Go ahead and watch that. But again, as we said… It’s sort of like when Maggie Smith died. If all you knew her from was like her most popular stuff like Harry Potter.

 

Nina Parker A plus work. Yeah, but listen, there’s some things you can get in the weeds for. And I think that for me, I was like, there was a couple of things I haven’t seen that I’m going to go, but I will for sure be revisiting Best in Show tonight.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, and also she has a very underrated performance in After Hours. That’s a mid-80s Martin Scorsese movie. A bunch of kooky women bother this guy who’s up all night in New York. Go ahead and watch that too. But otherwise, watch everything she did. And listen to every interview. Watched her on David Letterman and Johnny Carson. She did a banger impression of Elizabeth Taylor. God, do I miss when half of entertainment was about what do you think of Elizabeth Tayler? Yes. Take me there. Yes. Also this weekend, we lost Shirley Rains.

 

Nina Parker Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Please tell us what you think of this incredible person.

 

Nina Parker I found out about Shirley on Twitter years ago. I think I saw like a clip or something, but Shirley was a huge advocate for the unhoused community in Los Angeles. She also started working eventually in Vegas as well, but literally just feet on the ground, just out there serving the community, feeding people. And it started to get, she was really personable. She would color her hair and have all these piercings and she was like a presence. And I, you know, I would donate, you know, because she would have these Amazon lists of things they needed for the communities, toothbrushes, whatever, tents. And so I would always donate to her, like her Amazon list. And I would just do it, you know, privately, but she would start to get more and more visibility because of what she was doing in the community. It started to be really loud, which was great. And just really bringing awareness and bringing like humanity, because I think a lot of times It’s really, it’s hard for a lot of people. They don’t see the unhoused community as like human beings. And she would, you know, she would talk to them, argue with them, you now, like she wasn’t a pushover, but she would videotape all of that. You would get to see these interactions, but you would also see how happy people were to just be fed, but also just to be looked in the eye. Yeah. You know, so she was incredible, gone incredibly too soon. It’s insane. It’s, I really was shocked to see, cause I think she had just posted a couple of days before. Um, and you know, our, her movement will still continue, but, um, if you don’t know who Shirley Raines is, please look it up because what she did in Los Angeles, um you know we talk about entertainment in this city, but people always talk about the homelessness crisis in Los Angles and you, this is someone who was single-handedly trying to do something to feed the community and, uh, she, it will be sorely missed.

 

Louis Virtel And I think you’re right that people always talk about the homelessness crisis, but they rarely are talking about any specific homeless person and like you can talk to these people. There’s like a world there in each of these people and she made you realize, oh my people, right?

 

Nina Parker And there are people, you know, I have a really soft spot for this subject and I have a grandmother who had mental illness who was homeless for a number of years and we couldn’t find her. And I think like, there’s this, you, know, perception that homelessness is someone’s fault, you now, and I think there are so many people, especially now who now realize how close they are to that and people don’t have these lifelines like a lot of folks do. So I think her making this a human issue can change the lens. That a lot of people, you know, it’s very easy because LA is so glamorous and rich. And so I think it’s really easy for people to disassociate that part of the city. And I’m like, don’t let the sunshine fool you, there’s people out here struggling. And I think she, you now, I’m a very much like, do something about it. And she did something and she inspired me. You know, so I have my clothing line and I remember like donating. Um, like items for women so they could get, go to interviews and, you know, things like that. And that was inspired by her. Um, I was like, what else could I be doing? You know? So I think when you have someone who thinks about like what small things can you do to help, that would be great changes to someone else. Um. That’s a start.

 

Louis Virtel Deeply inspirational. Yeah, we’ll be right back with the sauciest part of the episode,Keep it.

 

Louis Virtel And we’re back with the downright meanest part of the episode. Uncooth, if you will. It’s keep it. Nina, help us out. What is upsetting you?

 

Nina Parker I want people to stop calling for AI videos.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please.

 

Nina Parker Are you okay? Do you think the polar bear is tap dancing in your front yard in Atlanta? Like the AI videos, I get that they’re getting more realistic. But if you really look, you’re like, okay, this is not logical.

 

Louis Virtel No, Oprah has seven fingers there.

 

Nina Parker Yes, seven fingers and three boobs, and you think, and I hate, this is what I hate the most when they post, is this real?

 

Louis Virtel No, Carol, it’s not real. I hate when people post anything like a tweet or something, or rather they don’t repost a tweet. They say, somebody somewhere said, can you define the original source?

 

Nina Parker Right. We’re on the internet where it is. You’re stealing, by the way. You’re just stealing. Right. You just don’t want to repost the person. Just repost them. Yeah. But yeah, the AI videos, I know they’re getting, you know, but, you know, they’re starting to pander. I saw an AI video. So I, my algorithm is very strange. Yeah. It’s very pro-black, natural hair, nails.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Nina Parker I’m trying, that’s what my algorithm looks. You wanna know what it looks like? I follow nail pages like men follow bad bitches. Like I, that was in my algorithm. So there’s a cooking video. I’m like, oh great, this is like this new recipe. And I’m, like, this looks delicious. Click it, it’s an AI cooking video! Why are we doing that? I like AI food now, but for the food?

 

Louis Virtel Now.

 

Nina Parker And there were people in the comments like, I’m gonna make this. I’m like, are you? No. Because it’s not gonna look anything like this. But the fact that people just, it’s, I get that you, what do they say? You get a two second like time span on something before someone goes to the next thing. Yeah. But I want people just to open it up and look at it and please stop falling for the Okie Dokie. It’s annoying.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It just feels inevitable that like 90% of our feeds are gonna be that.

 

Nina Parker I know. And I mean, I can’t tell you the conversations I’ve had with Tony and Phyllis, my parents.

 

Louis Virtel Phil is one of the great names.

 

Nina Parker One of the great names

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Nina Parker She is not on social media. My father is on Facebook and I have to tell you, if they send me one more thing, if they sent me one thing, that’s AI. No. My dad’s like, look what’s happening in the world. I’m like, dad, this is AI.

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s basically claymation, dad.

 

Nina Parker It’s really claymation and they are serious. They were packing their bags. They thought, you know, it’s just always something. So I, you, know, but I find that age does not matter in this instance. There are a lot of young people falling for AI.

 

Louis Virtel The AI posts that most upset me right now, and I mostly see them on my still-existent Facebook, is when you see a still of a celebrity at the deathbed of another celebrity, and it’s like Dolly Parton addressed this in a video where she’s like, no, Reba was not at my deathbed. We’re not that good of friends.

 

Nina Parker Or they do the AI where they show you the old version and then the version now and then like their younger version

 

Louis Virtel Oh my, oh, well I’m a huge Madonna fan and the amount of like Madonnas I’ve seen, here’s Madonna walking from a set in the Lucky Star video into Material Girl into whatever it’s like.

 

Nina Parker Into Material Girl, into whatever, it’s like, can we not? Yes, and they’re on the apps now, by the way, the dating apps. Oh, oh. Men aren’t using AI, I can’t, I don’t know if women are doing it because I’m on that side. But the men are using the AI to recreate their images as if you can’t tell.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Nina Parker As if you can’t tell. Like I didn’t see your 12 thumbs.

 

Louis Virtel Also, by the way, a number of my own friends I’ve noticed have like, I’ll call it Photoshopped in a way that it feels like AI gets into the mix and it’s like.

 

Nina Parker Pass the filter now.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Can we vote for humanity? Can we be on the team human?

 

Nina Parker Can I say something? It’s okay to be a little ugly. Please, I crave it. I think it’s okay to be little ugly these days. We don’t have to put a filter in AI everything so everything is so perfect. I’m actually looking for imperfections now.

 

Louis Virtel Right, it’s sexy like the Celine Dion song. I have my own imperfections and I’m putting them on social media because authenticity means something

 

Nina Parker I love it. Everything is so glossed over and glazy. Now, look, listen, I use a little filter from time to time. Now, listen. I get it.

 

Louis Virtel Glazy is exactly the word like everything looks like wicked for good

 

Nina Parker Everything’s so perfect. I’m really excited about like seeing imperfections online these days.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let’s celebrate that. Maybe it needs its own account. Yes. Yeah, imperfections. That’ll be huge. Everybody wants it. Post your stars. Yeah. My keep it this week. We lost a talk show this week, the Kelly Clarkson show is ending. Now, let me say this. She did it for seven years. I imagine that’s extremely taxing, especially when you’re performing on the show as much as she is with the Kelly Oakes that are constantly amazing.

 

Nina Parker She’s also not a traditional host like she so that’s not it’s not like she grew up wanting to be a TV

 

Louis Virtel No, this is like her, like, fifth biggest dream or something. But what I want to say, keep it too, is we need to have talk shows because it keeps celebrities good at being celebrities. When they come on a show with a prepared anecdote or a song or like a duet idea or something, it is such good pure entertainment. And I feel like we’re running out of opportunities where celebrities can entertain us outside of having to literally be in a movie or literally doing a music video. I think Kelly was really good at getting fun anecdotes out of her guests, and also getting onto tangents, which is an important part of talk shows. And I feel like the more talk shows we lose, the less obligation we have to expect anything fun from celebrities outside of like their own atrocious social media.

 

Nina Parker Not, I feel like talk shows are dying, not dead. But I do think there’ll be a resurgence, just like everything, it’ll be like very retro and they’ll start to come back. Oprah does her podcast right now and she uses an audience. And I really love that. I miss like the talk shows with the audience where they’re talking to people in the audience and the daytime, it’s a lost art to it. And Kelly, I’m really hard on hosts, especially people who are not like traditional hosts. People who are like singers or actors who become hosts, I’m very critical. Because it’s such a skill that I think people take for granted. And she actually did a great job and she did a great interview and she was enjoyable to watch.

 

Louis Virtel And this just in Sherry Shepherd’s show is ending. Talk about another person who could do whatever she wants, generally speaking. Whatever she wants, generally speaking.

 

Nina Parker Oh, man, I’m shocked to hear that. First of all, I am sad of the state of these shows being canceled. And I know we’re in this, like, growing pains with social media and streaming, so I think it’ll be figured out. But in the meantime, we’re losing, you know, these legends on TV. I’ve been on Shari a number of times. We are not friends, but friendly. Like, we follow each other. I had a New York Fashion Week show. She came and supported. Oh, right. So she’s always been really supportive. She’s, like an amazing human being.

 

Louis Virtel Can host anything. I’ve seen her on game shows too, be great. Talk shows, anything.

 

Nina Parker Yeah, I’m hoping maybe she’ll start a podcast and continue it just how like Don Lemon did like I hope that she continues to do this. But I think like, you know, remember back in the day where people would get like $10 million for a people cover for their baby. And that faded out with social media, like that’s not a thing anymore. But for a long time, for decades, you could get millions of dollars for a cover. And I think we’re kind of going through that phase with talk shows where the budgets, the huge budgets, they’re just not. These brands don’t necessarily need to give to these TV shows the way that they used to. Mm-hmm. Because they can, they get more traction with like an influencer. So there’s gotta be a, but this is no fault to Sheri, but TV networks and these execs are still moving like it’s 1999. They have not adjusted to like the new way of TV and consumption. And they don’t listen to what people want to see. So these exec’s are making decisions about TV that aren’t really tapped into what people wanna see. And then they’re surprised and people don’t watch. And they’re not even marketing it the best way on social media. The Jennifer Hudson shows did a great job of doing like the tunnel. Even if you don’t want to show, you know who’s in the tunnel every week. Right, right. So it’s just, it’s sad that I feel like she, her show getting canceled is kind of like a tragedy of the times, not a failure of her talent.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Counterpoint, take me back to 1999.

 

Nina Parker Oh my god, please!

 

Louis Virtel Ludacris, Sugar Ray, I’m ready.

 

Nina Parker Oh my God, like I saw a post the other day said, you wake up tomorrow, it’s 1996, what are you gonna do? And I actually wept. I was like, oh my God.

 

Louis Virtel Um, sing When You Believe with Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston. I think that’s 97.

 

Nina Parker There’s a quote that says you never know the good times until they’re gone, like you never know you’re in the good time until they are gone. And I’m like, we were really in, the 90s was really peak. It was a jagged little pillish time of… It was, listen, it was a peak time. I am now one of the old timers, but it was peak for pop culture for sure.

 

Louis Virtel I’m ready for my heart to be unbroken. Yes.

 

Nina Parker So, R.I.P. To Kelly Clarkson’s show and the Sherri Shepherd show. hat a bummer.

 

Louis Virtel Someone shepherd us back to a fucking TV universe I want to be in.

 

Nina Parker Do you think there’s a world where this means there’s a resurgence of windy coming?

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god. I mean, is that even possible?

 

Nina Parker I would want it. I’d be here for it.

 

Louis Virtel I think AI can help. Might not be the resurgence you wanted.

 

Nina Parker This is where I’d be an advocate for the AI.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, see?

 

Nina Parker Yes.

 

Louis Virtel I knew you had a price. Nina Parker, thank you so much for joining us today. Where can we find you on social media?

 

Nina Parker My name is the same on all my socials The Nina Parker. So The Nina Park

 

Louis Virtel And you are the Nina Parker, so it works out. I am, yes. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you to Paula Pell for being here. We’ll be back next week with an all new episode of Keep It and the Super Bowl Halftime Show. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jerik Centeno. Thank you to David Tolles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.