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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Friday, December 12th. I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day. The show celebrating the Department of Justice for failing to indict New York Attorney General Leticia James. It’s time to leave Tish alone, guys. [music break] On today’s show, dueling healthcare bills fail in the Senate, setting Republicans back from concepts of a plan to concepts of a concept of a plan. And is nothing sacred? Nature lovers push back on plans to make President Donald Trump the face of their national park adventures. But let’s start with immigration. On Thursday, a federal judge ordered Kilmar Abrego Garcia be released from immigration detention. Another twist in the story of the man wrongfully deported to an El Salvadoran superprison earlier this year. Your CBS News’ Camilo Montoya-Galvez quoting the judges ruling.

[clip of Camilo Montoya-Galvez] Because respondents, meaning the government, have no statutory authority to remove Abrego Garcia to a third country absent a removal order, a deportation order, his removal cannot be considered reasonably foreseeable, imminent, or consistent with due process. Although respondents may eventually get it right, they have not as of today. 

Jane Coaston: What Garcia has experienced seems to me to be a microcosm of what immigration has looked like under the Trump administration for the last 12 months or so. Cruelty and incompetence, both at their absolute worst. We have agents from immigration and customs enforcement in multiple cities committing atrocities against immigrants and U.S. citizens alike on an almost daily basis, from Chicago to Charlotte, Los Angeles to DC. Also on Thursday, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem was forced to answer to Rhode Island Democratic Representative Seth Magaziner as she testified before the House Committee on Homeland Security. He asked her about the deportation of a combat veteran and Purple Heart recipient after she denied that any veterans had been deported at all. 

[clip of Representative Seth Magaziner] He has sacrificed more for this country than most people ever have. Earlier this year you deported him to Korea, a country he hasn’t lived in since he was seven years old. Will you join me in thanking Mr. Park for his service to our country? 

[clip of Kristi Noem] Sir, I’m grateful for every single person that has served our country and follows our laws. 

[clip of Representative Seth Magaziner] And can you please tell Mr Park–

[clip of Kristi Noem] And knows that our laws– 

[clip of Representative Seth Magaziner] –why you deported him? 

[clip of Kristi Noem] –are important and every one of them needs to be enforced. 

Jane Coaston: After this exchange, Noem said she would review the case. She then left the hearing early for a meeting, a meeting that turned out to be canceled. Huh? The Trump administration has put billions of dollars into building an immigration superstructure meant to punish those who have done nothing wrong and intimidate everyone else, including legal immigrants and U.S. citizens. Weirdly enough, that’s proving to not be very popular. According to new polling from the Associated Press, Trump is now deeply underwater on the subject of immigration, with 60% of respondents opposing his handling of the issue. So to talk more about what’s happening with immigration from the administration’s plans to 2026 to its many horrifying offenses against everyone, I spoke to Aaron Reichlin-Melnick. He’s a senior fellow at the American Immigration Council. Aaron, welcome back to What a Day. 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: Thank you for having me back. 

Jane Coaston: Recently the Trump administration has used the tragic shooting of two National Guard members by an Afghan national with a history of mental health issues to make a lot of horrible changes to its asylum and citizenship processes. Can you walk us through what those were? 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: Yeah, so there are two major changes. First, the suspension of processing for a whole swath of immigration benefits. And second, a call to re-review immigration benefits granted to hundreds of thousands of people during the Biden administration. The first one is a two-parter. First, they’re saying we are not going to adjudicate any asylum applications that are pending with US citizenship and immigration services. These are what are known as affirmative asylum applications, people who are not currently facing removal. And they’re just saying we’re going to go up to the point where we can grant a case and then we’re just going to put it on hold until we get some sort of new vetting system in place. And that applies to everyone going through the system. But more broadly, they’re now saying for anyone who comes from a country, one of the 19 countries targeted by President Trump’s travel ban, they are not going to adjudicate any immigration benefit. That includes things like requests for work permits, includes things like requests for green cards or visa petitions for family members. And it even includes things like citizenship. 

Jane Coaston: Right. There were some recent stories about people who were literally going to their citizenship proceedings who got pulled out of line after they were asked what country they were coming from. 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: That’s right, because this new pause, which is indefinite and will last for an unknown period of time, applies to anyone who is born in one of those countries. So it’s even affecting some dual nationals who hold, for example, Canadian and Iranian citizenship, or British and Afghan citizenship, even those people who would not actually be subject to the travel ban. And they’re saying, we will not let you have any benefit until an indefinite period in the future when we put new vetting rules in place. And that’s startling because again, you’ve seen people literally pulled out of their citizenship oath ceremony inches from the finish line to becoming US citizens, not because of anything they did, but solely because of where they were born. 

Jane Coaston: It felt like we were getting news about ICE operations and protests against them pretty much every day a few months ago. Can you remind us where in the country ICE is currently active? 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: I mean, so right now ICE is active everywhere in the country, as you just mentioned. And so, really, what we’re seeing is two kinds of operations. There’s the everyday, day-to-day arrests that are going on in communities around the country. And then there’s the splashy blitzes, the operations with catchy nicknames that the Trump administration tries to make a lot of propaganda around, where they are sending, you know, not only border patrol agents to do arrests, but you know, masked videographers with no identification carrying around steady cam rigs so they can get video for social media. And those operations right now are focused in New Orleans, primarily, with they don’t really have the manpower, it seems, or or the ability to do multiple splashy operations like this simultaneously. So they went from Los Angeles to Chicago, then to Boston, Washington, DC, and then Charlotte. And now they’re in New Orleans, and where they go next isn’t clear. But the everyday day-to-day pace of ICE arrests keeps going up as more officers are coming online with money and resources from the one big beautiful bill act. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, that that’s actually a point I wanna ask you about. They have so much money right now. They have money they clearly don’t really know what to do with. Why are they still having manpower issues? 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: Well, they only got the money in July. So some of this is just a matter of time. But as its hard, of course, we are talking about a very large population of people that they could potentially target. There are 14 million undocumented immigrants in the country. And there also comes a point where they need to increase the capacity of the system more rapidly. One of the biggest things, for example, is that the detention system, where they had hoped to have 107,000 beds online by January, currently has about 70,000 beds online. Now that’s huge. That is already massively higher than the system has ever had. But reportedly, Secretary Noem is requiring that every large purchase be personally signed off by her. And that’s leaving the system less flexible, and maybe they just aren’t able to actually ramp up the capacity to the speed they would like. But I will note it is still faster than really any of us expected, because $45 billion for detention and $30 billion for enforcement and removal operations is an unheard of sum of money for this. It just takes time to spend it all. 

Jane Coaston: Okay, I want to back up a second because it seems like the administration is doing everything it can to make immigrants fearful and make themselves look successful. But it seems to me that you have the combination of immigration hardliners saying you’re not doing enough, but also everyday Americans saying this isn’t what I wanted, this isn’t what I voted for, which could explain why Trump’s numbers on immigration have been going down. So can you help me separate the rhetoric from what’s actually happening more broadly on immigration? How successful is the administration in what they’ve been trying to do with regard to immigration and what is it actually doing? 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: I really don’t want to understate the extent to which they’ve already transformed the system into something more aggressive, more hypermilitarized, and more efficient in many ways than ever before. And efficient not at providing due process or a fair day in court, but efficient at getting people to simply give up and agree to be deported. That’s one of the biggest thing that the expansion of detention does. It keeps people locked up. And while they’re locked up, every single day you have ICE officers going to them and telling them, give up, give up. If you give up, you’ll get $1,000. If you give up, you’ll be out of here tomorrow. And if you don’t give up, we’re going to keep you locked up here for months and months. And the system is just getting bigger and worse. But it’s still not at the one million deportations a year level that they were seeking. They’re still maybe less than half of that goal. And they’re still not reaching the point where every single undocumented immigrant is saying it’s time for me to go. And I think they want that fear campaign to ramp up because that’s the only way to get it. They understand very clearly that you need fear in order to actually get everyone out. Otherwise, this is going to take 20 years to deport everybody. But I think you’re also saying the American public doesn’t like it. Of course, Trump ran on mass deportation, but nobody actually believed it. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, there’s a real sense of like when you were holding the sign that says Mass Deportations Now at the Republican National Convention, apparently some people didn’t think that meant that literally. 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: No, they thought it meant kick out the criminals. And he was quite successful with that message, and it resonated with a lot of people who had serious public safety concerns. The problem was the people running this operation do believe it, and they really do want to deport everybody. And so they’re going for the lowest hanging fruit. And the lowest hanging fruit are people with no criminal convictions. New data just came out, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, that shows after the late May meeting where Stephen Miller ordered ICE to stop focusing on public safety threats, stop doing targeted enforcement as much, instead, quote, “just go out there and arrest illegals.” What happened is a huge increase in the arrests of people with no criminal convictions. And then the Los Angeles raids started a week later. And since that point, almost two-thirds of all people arrested by ICE in the community have had no criminal record at all. 

Jane Coaston: So moving into 2026, given all of this, where do you expect the administration’s immigration policies to go from here? 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: Right now, the big thing I’m looking at is tent camps on military bases. There’s already one they have built in El Paso, Texas, that’s holding nearly 3,000 people already. And the stories coming out of there, according to an ACLU report that just was released a few days ago are horrific. Really, you know, serious allegations of abuse, of officers illegally deporting people to Mexico who had no removal order, physical abuse, verbal abuse, a lot of things going on. And they want to build dozens of these facilities. They want to have tent camps in Indiana and New Jersey and Florida. That’s the new way forward. And they have the money to do it. The issue right now is getting the contractors and the manpower to actually build those facilities and staff those facilities. And the longer time they have to do that, the more they’ll be able to. 

Jane Coaston: Aaron, thank you so much as always for joining me. 

Aaron Reichlin-Melnick: Thank you. And sorry I couldn’t be more positive about these. 

Jane Coaston:  It’s okay. That was my conversation with Aaron Reichlin-Melnick, Senior Fellow at the American Immigration Council. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of unnamed news reporter] It now seems all but certain that the Obamacare subsidies will expire at the end of the year. Means more than 20 million Americans are now bracing for their health care costs to soar. Is the president prepared to let this happen or is he going to step in? 

[clip of Karoline Leavitt] The president is prepared to take action on health care and he is wants republicans on the hill to do the same. 

Jane Coaston: White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt spoke after the Senate rejected two partisan health bills that were intended to help Americans facing steep premium increases due to the expiring Affordable Care Act subsidies. Senators had two chances to address healthcare on Thursday. Neither plan got enough votes despite four Republicans crossing the aisle and voting with Democrats. The Democratic bill would have extended the enhanced subsidies for three years. The Republican proposal involved directing funds into health savings accounts for people on the cheapest plans in the ACA marketplace. Congress’s inaction essentially guarantees that millions of Americans will see a steep rise in costs when the subsidies run dry in the new year. In a presser after the vote, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer offered an apt metaphor. 

[clip of Chuck Schumer] Senate Republicans just shoved the American people off the side of a cliff with no parachute and with an anchor tied to their feet. 

Jane Coaston: Don’t worry, I’m sure Trump will fix it in two weeks. 

[clip of Senator Spencer Deery ] We are a co equal force of government, or at least we are supposed to be, and as long as I have breath, I will use my voice to resist a federal government that attempts to bully, direct, and control this state or any state. 

Jane Coaston: Indiana Republican State Senator Spencer Deery  encouraged his fellow Republicans on Thursday to vote against a redistricting effort that would have favored their own party. And guess what? The message was heard loud and clear. Indiana’s Republican-led Senate rejected the redrawn congressional map. By rejecting the measure, Indiana’s GOP defied months of pressure from President Trump, who has been urging Republicans nationwide to redraw their congressional maps so that the party has a better chance of keeping its majority in the House in the midterms next year. Ahead of the vote, Trump threatened on Truth Social quote, “Anybody that votes against redistricting and the success of the Republican Party in DC will be, I am sure, met with a MAGA primary in the spring.” Of course, when asked about the failed effort during a press conference in the Oval Office on Thursday, the president played his loss down. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] I wasn’t working on it very hard. Would’ve been nice. I think we would have picked up two seats if we did that. You had one gentleman, the head of the Senate, I guess, Bray, whatever his name is. I heard he was against it. He’ll probably lose his next primary, whenever that is. I hope he does. 

Jane Coaston: Honestly, it’s his own fault. He sent Vice President J.D. Vance to Indiana to convince the GOP to vote for redistricting, and everyone knows that J.D. Vance represents a horrifying insult. An environmental conservation group is suing to stop the administration from putting a picture of Donald Trump’s face on the 2026 National Parks pass, citing, quote, “esthetic harm.” The Center for Biological Diversity filed the lawsuit Wednesday in a Washington, D.C. Federal court to prevent, quote, “Trump from replacing a beautiful picture of Glacier National Park with a close-up of his own face.” The lawsuit references the 2004 Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, which requires the Interior and Agriculture Secretaries to quote, “jointly hold an annual competition to choose the image featured on the pass.” To submit a photo, the National Park Foundation requires that photographers, quote, “capture a moment that has been experienced on America’s federal public lands and waters.” Roaming around Yellowstone, you’d sooner snap a legitimate shot of Bigfoot than run into Donald Trump. His administration also recently announced that it would ax free admission to national parks on MLK Day and Juneteenth, opting to waive fees on Trump’s birthday instead, which coincides with Flag Day. Lucky break. A spokesperson from the Center for Biological Diversity sums it up well, quote, “America the beautiful means wild rivers and majestic mountains, not a headshot of a bloated, fragile, attention-seeking ego. There’s nothing beautiful about that.” If you’re like me, you’d love the power to make Remy from Ratatouille open up a Michelin-star rat bistro inside of Elsa’s Ice Castle from Frozen. You’ve always dreamed of it. Just me? Disney announced a $1 billion investment in OpenAI on Thursday, making it the first major studio to license its characters to Sora, the AI video generator. Over the next three years, fans will be able to create short Sora videos featuring more than 200 animated Disney, Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars characters. 99% of those videos will not be safe for work. Disney is the first major studio to cross this potentially cursed line. Actors, animators, and writers have warned for years that AI could wipe out their jobs. The Writers Guild of America said in part, quote, “Disney’s announcement with OpenAI appears to sanction its theft of our work.” Children’s safety advocates also blasted the OpenAI deal, warning it could lure kids towards unsafe content. So should I make Remy open his frozen fromagerie? Or is that how we accidentally speed up the apocalypse? One AI-generated rat fondue video at a time. And that’s the news. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review. Read former French president Nicolas Sarkozy’s prison diaries from his 20 days behind bars, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading and not just about Sarkozy’s new book entitled A Prisoner’s Diary, which details his imprisonment for, again, 20 days of a five-year sentence for criminal association, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crookerdcom/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and this man wrote a whole ass book about being in jail for 20 days. And according to Amazon, it is 216 pages long. [music break] What a Day is the production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our associate producers are Emily Fohr and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters and Matt Berg. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of News and Politics is Adriene Hill. We had help from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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