TRANSCRIPT

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel and today, a couple of special things are occurring. One, we’re all wearing our favorite Broadway star shirts. Ira, who is yours?

 

Ira Madison III Well, I don’t know if it’s my favorite Broadway star, but it’s one of my favorite productions of the last year. You notice this gelical her on my shirt?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes, is that.

 

Ira Madison III Mr.  Jellicle Ball.

 

Louis Virtel I tried to come up with the cat’s character and I was like Mr. McClarb Scherzinger. Like I had nothing.

 

Ira Madison III I think you just said a Superman villain. But if you say it backwards, you can defeat him.

 

Louis Virtel I am cheekily wearing a Madonna shirt. This will shock everybody at home. She was in the 1988 David Mamet Speed the Plow production. And if you have footage of this production, you will be killed because Madonna doesn’t want you to have that. And also today, we have a fabulous guest, a returner to Keep It, the incredible theater critic Juan Ramirez. Welcome back to.

 

Juan Ramirez Hi everyone with my Audra shirt. Thank you, Louis. Thank you Ira. No such welcome from you.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. He was speaking.

 

Ira Madison III When has that stopped you?

 

Ira Madison III He just introduced you. What was I supposed to say? Welcome Juan.

 

Juan Ramirez Would have been nice.

 

Ira Madison III Fine. Juan A, Ramirez, because I know how  serious you get about that, A.

 

Juan Ramirez Thank you, and I can feel the accent in the way you say my last name, too.

 

Ira Madison III Juan A. Ramirez.

 

Louis Virtel Though if I’m writing a byline as you do all the time, I would be a very strong stickler for the initial. So I didn’t mean to leave that out, I apologize.

 

Juan Ramirez Ask your producers, I am.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, very good.

 

Ira Madison III Kennedy!

 

Louis Virtel By the way, your shirt, which is, as you just said, an Audra McDonald shirt, is stunning. We will get into the Tony nominations today and also the Tony season in general. But since you have the Audra shirt here, is this the definitive performance for you of the season? No. Interesting.

 

Juan Ramirez It’s the definitive t-shirt, which like during the winter I would sort of unzip my coat into a reveal, you know, no, and is it obscene for one person to have seven Tonys? We’ll get into it. I’m sure. Yes, very much so.

 

Ira Madison III Also, let’s talk about the Broadway merch currently. The girls are not stepping it up. A lot of this merch is bad.

 

Juan Ramirez If I was wearing who I really wanted my definitive performances, it would be Megan Hilty and Jen Samard, but the Death Becomes a Remerch is fugly. So I did not.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t buy anything from that damn gift shop. That is always so disappointing. Like if I go to a concert and it’s somebody who, like I rarely see, like when like Alanis Morissette finally goes on tour or something. And I line up for the merch and I’m like, this, I can’t do anything with this, right? I’d have to cut it up or come up with some like Project Runway Day to Evening version of this outfit to serve.

 

Juan Ramirez No, but certain people, like Lana Del Rey, I’ve made it a point to buy something from each and every album and tour cycle because it’s increasingly more hideous and it’s in a really comical space where it’s just like, just clip art, her name is blurry, maybe

 

Ira Madison III be misspelled beautiful. I’m a merch girl. I love concert merch and I would like to get more into some of the theater merch. But you know, usually I just end up getting a hat. Like the hats are a little chic. Like I really loved Bam’s hat for a street car named Desire. It was better than the play. It’s a hat that just says street car. So it’s okay. It’s chic, it’s chic. It’s Tennessee Williams chic. And like I said, it was better then the play, but no, I think a lot of the merch too is very like. It’s creeped into this thing where it’ll have like a quote from the play and not even a good quote from the plate, like the John Proctor is the villain merch and it’s just the quote here and it looks like the worst merch that a mom in Denver is going to wear.

 

Juan Ramirez The death of comes or one is like, slay diva, drink the potion.

 

Ira Madison III We need to get people to go to the theater.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like people who are creating this merch also just overestimate the like viability of quotes from these plays too, like just not as iconic as they once were unless it’s literally based on, you know, Sunset Boulevard, something that is like completely historic in terms of pop culture. It just doesn’t work. Like just put the title on something and make it cute.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, or Cola Scola for Old Mary, the merch that they had was just, it was a black hat with a new play by Cola Scolo, which is fit in the theme of like, you can see hats where people have like directed by Stanley Kubrick or stuff like that. It was au courant and it was chic, you know? And like, I love wearing that hat. People love wearing hat. But no, a lot of this merch is just, it’s down bad. That’s an early keep it from us get the merch more hoppin because I guess people can you know You want like people who are visiting to wear it and go back to their hometown and like they can enjoy it and remember the show But like think of it as a fashion moment, too. You know like merch is fashion

 

Juan Ramirez Speaking of merch, you know what I’m obsessed with? Do you remember when Kylie Jenner tried to trademark the word Kylie and then Kylie Minogue, Kylie Minogue pre-Padam stepped up from the shadows and was like, no, I have to believe that’s the reason why this latest tour merch is just the word Kylie.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, it’s very resentful. And by the way, I don’t I think I think Australians are generally speaking allergic to a resentment, you know, like there’s a hole in the ozone layer there and they’re enjoying it. And because of those rays, they don’t have resentment vibes. But I think Kylie really had to fight to make that happen. So I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

Ira Madison III Listen, I think that Kylie Minogue is like one of the sweetest pop stars that we have. And, you know, as we said, Isaiah Banks is usually right most times. Effervescent puss. Yeah, she tweeted about Kylie last year. See, I like Kylie Minoque a lot because she’s actually giving joyous [Unrecognized] everlasting and her music hits. She is the effervescent pus. Nothing about her is shady, condescending, or forced. She is a big purr.

 

Louis Virtel And we will, I think, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, be getting into the verses and rhymes of Azalea Banks today because she decided to sit down with the Met Gala last night and break down every single look. Honestly, I will say this. There is a hole in pop culture from where Joan Rivers once was. Like, I just want someone to say something like abrupt and nasty, and then also they’re famous. So there is a bit of risk to it.

 

Ira Madison III I think that we really are missing this area, because you have fun people like a Nicky Bell who’s online and I love his TikToks, which is just quick going through people’s fashion. But I don’t know, you either have some people online who are just so sort of nasty on TikTok now about things that there’s no depth or real humor to it, they’re just sort of being assholes about celebrities, or you have people who… Have big platforms who just basically PR for celebrities at this point too. It’s like you’re not saying anything interesting. It’s everything’s slay mama, everything’s boots, the house.

 

Juan Ramirez No, I was just saying that my least favorite word in all of entertainment, but especially theater, is gratitude. Everyone has so much damn gratitude. And I’m like, I know statistically two people backstage had to piss you off.

 

Louis Virtel It just doesn’t need to be stated, like of course you have gratitude for whatever production you’re in or whatever’s going on in your celebrity life or something, it just doesn t need to restated. Whatever happens to catitude, am I right? Whatever happened to the Beatitudes? Some people need Jesus.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of gratitude, our guest this week is the delightful Darren Criss and he has never hated anyone ever.

 

Louis Virtel He, his parents may literally be the concept of glee. I think he literally is just like.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, listen, he’s the Immaculate Conception, okay? Like he is the sweetest person. He was a fantastic interview Louis and I chat with him about his Broadway musical that he is totally nominated for, maybe happy ending. And I will say, the closest you get to maybe getting a little bit of attitude from him is at Louis for not having seen it yet.

 

Louis Virtel I live in Los Angeles as I explained to him and I’m coming next week and I will see the play, Darren Criss. I would love to feud with Darren Cris. I would love the feud with somebody who thinks they are so nice. That’s the dream.

 

Ira Madison III Ha ha ha ha!

 

Juan Ramirez Just drag them down with you.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Yeah, let’s see how nasty it gets. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Ira Madison III That’s very good, like, classic, like 60s comedy vibes. You know, like the nicest person, they’re just putting up with you and tell the final act where they snap and then they apologize for it.

 

Louis Virtel Right. The way Jenna Maroney would get into like a feud with a child is what I’m saying. That’s what I want for myself. Also, this episode, as we said, we will dissect the Met Gala, which had a very rad theme this year and a good about face from previous years. It didn’t feel repetitive at all, at least to me. We’ll get into that. And we’ll also talk about the Broadway season with Juan, who has seen everything, maybe to his own detriment, almost. We’ll see how his soul is. And then, of course, we’ll get into Keep It, too. And Juan will also contribute to that. We rarely let the guest host do the Keep It’s with us. So that’s very exciting for you. You’ve done one before, haven’t you?

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah, it was about grammar. I actually have some this time. Kelsey, or Camille, or the daughter. It’s about Kelsey Grammer’s wine that he’s been hawking. No, no, it’s about, what the fuck? It was about Oxford commas or something. I don’t know, I was blanking. Wait, Kelsey Grammar has a wine brand? I believe so, because I remember a coworker two years ago, like left the day in the middle, like to just go get his wine bottle signed or something? Oh, that’s so weird for him to have douchebag vibes.

 

Louis Virtel I just can’t believe it. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III On Monday, fashion’s biggest night returned once again. This year’s Met Gala was co-hosted by Coleman Domingo, Louis Hamilton, Asap Rocky, and Pharrell Williams. The theme was super fun, tailoring black style, which celebrated black dandyism across the decades. There were suits, fabulous hats, and even Diana Ross, mother to all. And if you want to follow along with the actual looks from the Met Gala this week, you can watch us on our YouTube channel, which is at Keep It Podcast. So first, we’re going to hear from our expert on black dandyism, Louis Rotel.

 

Louis Virtel That really is grim. Well, first of all, I’ll say this, the tailoring aspect of this theme made most of the looks, I think more chic and kind of like street wearish than you normally get. Like it was less extravagant than you normal get from the Met Gala, but that is fine. We’ve had that Met Gila several times in several outsized ways. The one downside to this is because it’s kind of street wear. I feel like you saw a lot of looks that celebrities might just wear elsewhere. In fact, I felt like a sub theme of this. Um mackella is what would colman domingo just wear you know and felt like people were sort of dressing in the uh kind of him universe of fashion which by the way should just be explored more so it was novel for the most part

 

Ira Madison III I would also say you got moments like Nicole Kidman who, listen, we love Mother, she went from the Brat tour to the Met Gala the next day. And I think her look at the Bratt tour where she was just wearing some jeans and some sunglasses kind of fit the theme more because she showed up to the MET Gala just looking like she was going to the Golden Globes. And my favorite thing was I was watching the Vogue live recap of the red carpet, which by the way, They missed a lot of celebrities, fuck that live stream. They cut off a lot people and then had to find those photos later online or on Getty Images. But some people who stopped for Vogue were asked, what does this theme mean to you? And I love asking white people this question, right? But.

 

Louis Virtel Nicole is like, she thinks a black dandy is like a flower in her yard or something.

 

Ira Madison III But she said, well, I spoke to Anna about it. And Anna said, you know, remember it’s tailoring to you, you know? So really get that outfit that’s tailor-made for you. And I really think that is what a lot of the white celebrities just went for, which is fine. But I appreciated people who stepped outside the box and honestly, let me give Nicole her flowers, her black dandies, because… She actually did, like a performer, spin it around and say, I’m actually representing, you know, the women who supported the Black Dandies in that time period, you now? And I’m like, you what? Come on, Countee Collin. Okay, like she is giving you, I am the white benefactress who is giving James Baldwin. The money that he can just hang out in Paris and write his book. That is a vibe. She spun that and that’s why she’s mother.

 

Juan Ramirez Okay, correct. I’ll describe hers and Lana Del Rey’s look as Sarah Paulson.

 

Ira Madison III So I’m…

 

Juan Ramirez I admire the setup. The original Black Dandy.

 

Ira Madison III On the other side of the coin, you have the one white person who was, well, for lack of a better word, I’m going to be a nigga. And this was Amelia Gray, Lisa Rinna’s daughter, who wore a lace durag on the carpet. And that is not what we wanted to see, baby. That’s a little bit too much embracing of the black culture.

 

Louis Virtel You’re suffocating us.

 

Ira Madison III Baby, you had never been to Inglewood, okay? Like, calm down. You don’t even let your black housekeeper wear a durag in your Beverly Hills home, okay. So, where you find that at?

 

Louis Virtel Okay, we should just get into the favorites because that was a disturbing image. Thank you so much. All right. Once again, the entire reason we throw a macula is because of Rihanna, who is pregnant, I don’t know if you heard, for the third time. And the look she contrived is definitely in sync with black dandyism, but it is also quite Mary Poppins for her. So, I was surprised.

 

Ira Madison III To see this look. People were surprised that she was pregnant too. And I feel like we’ve known this since the trial. I guess it wasn’t publicly stated, but she was also had this influencer trip to Barbados where every person you’ve muted on TikTok and Instagram seemed to be there. And she was wearing the flowy dress and she was very visibly pregnant. So I was shocked that this was presented as news. I always just sort of assumed she’s pregnant to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel She hates that. Safer that way.

 

Juan Ramirez Uh, wait, but speaking of white people stepping out of line, perhaps, look, Sabrina Carpenter going as a Pullman porter. Why not?

 

Louis Virtel Why not? She’s wearing this sort of burgundy fitted tux or jacket with like a leotard. I have to say, I always support this kind of look which comes back every couple years or so because it reminds me of Vanity Six and like Prince protégés who later become Christians. And it’s just like the leg into the hips line. I feel like it’s underrated in fashion and I’m sort of psyched to see her wear. It’s also very Paula Abdul.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, I really liked her outfit. And I also loved Bad Bunny wearing his brown Prada suit. And he had this chic bag with him. Like, first of all, Benito always looks good. Okay, I am, I need to get down to Puerto Rico this summer so that I can see his residency. Bad Bunny, you’ve been warned. I do want to comment on the cut, which deleted an Instagram post that they wrote about Bad Buddy because they wrote, he’s looking a lot like the dick in the box guy from SNL just because of the bag he was holding. And I guess someone thought that that was inappropriate and it was deleted.

 

Juan Ramirez I like the bag. However, I do think it’s a little too much of an ad for Prada in the same way that, and I hate to say this, but I do think Dochi’s look would have been perfect. Was it not so beholden to the LV logo?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, listen, I did not love Dochi’s look and unfortunately, I think that all of her best looks that would have worked for the Met Gala, she used at the Grammys via Tom Brown and what happened is that Pharrell made some personal calls and got Dochi to come over to Louis Vuitton when she was originally gonna be fitted by Tom Brown and the results were just very fine, you know? It was like a good look. That would be like a wow on a magazine cover or something, but it just wasn’t feeling like Met Gala shut down the carpet stunning. And while I liked the LV print on her cheek, it did just feel very Louis Vuitton ad. And I’m also gonna drag Damson Idris, who looked so fucking hot in his red suit. And you had the like the pull away moment too, where he had the helmet on. Which was great, but it was just an ad for the movie that he’s in, F1, and I think using the Met Gala red carpet to do promo for your movie is tacky.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I’ll just say this. There is a problem with the mecheologist in general, where every celebrity now has the perfect team. So like the grandiose crazy looks. Not everybody. They all feel like kind of interchangeable to me. It like disappoints me when somebody can’t take the theme and make it really say something about their personality. I will at least say about Dochi. It felt like her, you know, like it was quite corporate, the look of it. And I don’t like the little flap kind of tuxedo tail on this short she was wearing. But otherwise, it did feel specific to her. A lot of these looks say nothing about the personality themselves. That said, I was disappointed in me, Louis, looking at Zendaya’s look. She wore bright white. And I didn’t immediately identify this as a mahogany tribute. And I guess that’s what it was. My immediate thought was Faye Dunaway in The Thomas Crown Affair. But I was sorely mistaken. Yeah. To be fair, I was thinking about it anyway, and I just projected it right onto her.

 

Ira Madison III White dandy as a-

 

Juan Ramirez Louis, did you clock that Sidney Sweeney was doing a Kim Novak moment?

 

Louis Virtel No, and I saw that look several times.

 

Ira Madison III I did when she said it.

 

Louis Virtel She said it

 

Juan Ramirez She looked gorgeous as is her want, but I will say that I do think it’s my favorite look of hers only because it brought attention to the fact that she is going to be playing Kim Novak in a movie she’s producing and pulled Coleman Domingo in to direct it. It’s going to about how Kim Novack has this troubled relationship with Sammy Davis Jr. I am extremely on fucking board for this. So even if it’s not necessarily what I saw on the carpet, thank you. That’s movie promo. I do want to see. I want to read some Deadline articles. And that’s okay. Who’s playing Sammy Davis jr? I did not recognize the name, but what I think is interesting is that Coleman wrote a play about Nat King Cole that’s currently in New York, and he’s going to do that movie as well. He’s in this world and I am excited.

 

Louis Virtel And also by the way, Kim Novak very much still with us. So that’s an interesting wrinkle on that too.

 

Ira Madison III What’s interesting too is this is a project that’s been in the works for a minute because Jeremy Pope was originally attached to play Sammy Davis Jr. With Janet Mock directing a few years ago and in the scandalous and it never came to fruition. And I like Carmen Domingo and Sidney Sweeney teaming up. Jeremy Pope also looked fine as always, but like part of me was sort of like, is this it? But he looked good, you know, he was styled by Law Roach and Law was doing the whole Burberry table. So like everybody was styed by Law roach, it seems, like a third of the people there. And that’s also why I feel like some stuff slipped through the cracks because Zendaya’s look was also worn by Anna Sawai. On the carpet too. No way. I didn’t even see her on the red carpet. Yes, well, actually I don’t know if she was on the carpet, the stylist at least put up an Instagram photo and they were talking about the inspiration and they’re like, and also I guess Zendaya inspired us too. Zendaya is such a cool chick though. I hope she like found Anna at the Met Gala and they took like a photo together or something.

 

Louis Virtel I love it when, I mean, when there’s meetup like that and just vibe. Now wait, something happened here that we haven’t even brought up yet. Excuse me, Nicki Minaj was there. And as you know, I don’t really know her current life situation or where she’s allowed to be and if she’s banned from most of the New York metropolitan area. So what did we think of this look, which I’m going to go as woman who shows up to your grandfather’s funeral expecting an inheritance and you’ve never seen her A lot of looks we’re giving Cheetah Rivera.

 

Ira Madison III In that one musical. I thought Nicki Minaj looked fantastic as a Barb. I am legally required to say so, but she also did look good. And I had heard that she was going to be there because I heard that there was some hushed secret meetings about her arriving there. And because obviously Cardi B was there as well. And we did not want another Harper’s moment, all that rah rah, never was the icon issue.

 

Juan Ramirez But I think I read something about law having a hand in both of their looks, Cardi.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, he did. He did. So congrats. Yes. Right. He is peace in the Middle East. Okay. He is bridging the gap. No. So he styled Nicki Minaj. And then I believe Colin Carter styled Cardi B specifically, but because he did the entire Burberry table, he talks about magazine, I believe sort of law was at the helm. Of the Cardi look, and then didn’t do the specific styling. But I thought she looked great. She looked like lettuce, but she looked sexy. And I want to say, I really liked Cardi B’s, too, because one of my main problems with the sort of Met-Gal vibe this year, and I love this theme, by the way. I love the celebration of blackness. I love the celebration of- dandyism, it steeps into queerness, and it honored Andre Leon Talley, who was never honored enough by Vogue or Anna while he was alive. And now they want to do this big show for him now that he’s dead. But I did not really like the fact that everyone just steeped into 20s, like Harlem Renaissance, like Guys and Dolls sort of looks like. I don’t think everyone needed to be in a suit. And I don’t think it all needed to be like, it was called black dandyism, but a lot of people online kept thinking like the theme was like black and white too. It wasn’t like it was too, there was not enough color on that carpet. And when I think of dandy ism, I’m thinking of color, which is why I loved Cardi B. And I kind of loved Chapel Rowan too, because they were both giving Jimi Hendrix, like they were giving 70s rockish like. They were giving color. They were getting vibes. I love Tracy Ellis Ross, you know, give us some fucking color

 

Louis Virtel The version of that I loved was Tiana Taylor’s look, which was bright red, and it’s like.

 

Ira Madison III Baby, she looked good as hell.

 

Louis Virtel First of all, anybody who calls to mind Lord Licorice, I’m signing up for. That’s who I came here to see at the Met Gala.

 

Ira Madison III Well, not really, because Alicia Keys.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that too. No, she said, I’m Red Vines too, baby.

 

Ira Madison III She wasn’t giving for me, which was unfortunate because if you go back to the songs in songs in A minor vibe of Alicia Keys, she used to dress in like the black dandyism vibe more back then than what she was giving on the carpet.

 

Juan Ramirez Right. A colorful look I loved, and they’ll come up later, is Cola Scola had this extremely colorful suit. This sort of gorgeous, wet hair I loved. Took me a moment, but I loved it. I’ll agree with you with the suit, but i will say I think maybe my favorite look of the evening was the designer Willy Chavarria, who had this sort of like, Chicano suit. With this like deeply, I am not a fashion person, I’m also colorblind for listeners at home, but this like gilded and sort of pearled silver tie with a gold crucifix key chain and these roses, it looked so fucking good and was sort of a take on like, yeah, Chicano dandyism, I guess is the thing. It wasn’t necessarily black, I don’t think.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Pachuko style. It was sexy. I love Willie’s looks and I think that worked on him in a way it didn’t work on Shakira.

 

Louis Virtel Oh Shakira, that was the exact wrong color for this whole theme. Like she wore just like a baby pink. So first of all, it feels like that’s three MacEllig’s ago. And then secondly, it just was completely out of step with the really sharp swaggery colors that everybody else was wearing.

 

Ira Madison III She usually looks great, and I feel bad because my friend is her stylist, but baby, it was giving quinceañera.

 

Louis Virtel And I believe Azalea Banks also said that. So once again, the great thinkers of our generation, Ira and Azaleah are in step.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it was just, and the train was just like, also, listen, Rihanna shut it down with train, the train, like a few years ago, okay? So if we’re giving, we’re allowing Diana Ross because she looked fantastic and she’s mother.

 

Louis Virtel She’s the mother of mother of mothers.

 

Ira Madison III Right, she’s allowed that big ass train. And she’s also on tour at the moment too. So she popped over there. She was like, my kids were like, you got to do it. You got to it. And she was like so I came. But she’s just on tour the moment and she looked great in her white and that train was fucking huge, you know? But yeah, I think some people were like doing a bit too much with the trains this time. Speaking of white looks though. Coco Jones looked fucking amazing. And if you are not listening to Coco Jones, by the way, you are missing out. Cause her voice is everything. She has this live rendition of her single, Put You On, which she did, just go to YouTube, Put You on live. She did an encore for this version of The Terrell Show. The vocal range in that song, the lesson that she is putting on, the glissando that she does at the end of it. She is a person that people should be paying a lot more attention to. Every time I play a Coco Joes song at the Gay Afters, they’re always like, who is this? And I’m like, you should know.

 

Louis Virtel I love how all your gay afters are people yelling, who is this at you?

 

Ira Madison III Listen, you know, you knew I took- In his head, that’s what they’re saying. I took a, they said it out loud, okay? You can ask Charles Pierce himself, Juan Ramirez. But listen, for a decade, people were asking me, who is this about Rita Ora? And now they finally know her. That’s true. Thank you.

 

Juan Ramirez I did that. Me. You know what? OK, I’m going to say I agree that the suit thing was the overall look everyone went to, but some of the ones I noted that I most loved. I really liked Lauren Hill, who came with a sort of attendant. Baby. Bring it. Bring an attendant to hold your parasol. I mean, ooh.

 

Louis Virtel Unusual color story also on time for the red carpet. No, that’s crazy Anna put it in a text. She says you show up at this time

 

Ira Madison III And I told her the Met Gala was Saturday. She looked fucking amazing. And also, this is our theater episode, and I’m going to talk about a couple of white men. First, the man in theater, Tom Francis from Sunset Boulevard.

 

Louis Virtel Help me.

 

Ira Madison III Could stomp me in the fucking face. My friend Michael Martelli, who by the way, is in a band called Trophy Wife, and they have a song called Keep It. So people should listen to that song. It’s actually pretty good. But he was catering, bartending the event, and he was just like, Tom Francis, he gave him a water in person, and he just like sweating, looking at this man.

 

Louis Virtel Tom Francis is in Sunset Boulevard, he plays the Joe Gillis role, the main role.

 

Ira Madison III And I have to go back because I saw it under study. I’ve not seen him in the show.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, one of your many flaws. When you see this performance, there’s a part where he is in a, kind of just a boxer brief, I guess. It’s weird that they, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Star Making Thighs before. I’ve never seen it.

 

Juan Ramirez I don’t think anyone has ever screenshotted that one damn curtain call and zoomed in to see what was happening in there. More times than this fucking curtain call. Now, Louis, he is descended from the father.

 

Ira Madison III Of Star-Making Thighs in a Broadway musical. And that is Cheyenne Jackson in Xanadu. Those short shorts in all around the world.

 

Louis Virtel I could draw the fringe on your shorts right now. From memory.

 

Ira Madison III But, Tom Francis looked great, and then also, I was shocked, shocked that Patrick Schwarzenegger killed his look.

 

Louis Virtel I’m not, I feel like he can read a room and sort of dial in without like kind of trying too hard. He’s not a try too hard vibe.

 

Ira Madison III No, I just loved it. I thought he was like perfectly styled, perfectly tailored. I loved the handbag with a belt that he was holding so it was attached to his hand. I need one of those. And honestly, Patrick is currently petitioning to get the lead in the American Psycho remake and I think give it to him. The vinyl episode of White Lotus made me believe that he can act. And the styling here, he’s a star. To me, he gives-

 

Juan Ramirez He gives rom-com to me. I trust that Luca Guadagnino would draw a good performance from him. And I also did enjoy sort of seeing his emotions play out on his face throughout this extremely bad season. But, you know, if Luca makes them show hold or something, like, give it to him. He wants it this bad.

 

Ira Madison III That’s true. Maybe the girls are going to come for you. All right. Another person saying they didn’t like White Lotus.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah, no, we’re on a watch list. I can’t explain it. One last note about white people at the Met Gala. Again, Nick Jonas attempting to tap into something of black dandyism and the closest he gets is Gaston. Oops.

 

Ira Madison III We’ll talk about him in a minute. Well, listen, Nick Jonas is busy trying to tap into singing. Oh, yeah, right.

 

Louis Virtel Wait, he’s still in that show, right?

 

Juan Ramirez Yes, they have somehow not emergency recast that role. Yeah, people seem to be distressed. Not to get into our next segment, but I will shout out the fact that the time out review of the last five years of the production in which she is one of two stars, the other being Adrienne Warren, the subhead is not since Beanie. Wow. In reference to Beanie-

 

Ira Madison III And he felt seen in Funny Girl. And this is a man who used to turn me on with his singing. Like, Jealous, the remix with Tinashe, that’s a hot song. Go back to R&B, baby. And I want to shout out another Bollywood star, Shah Rukh Khan. Shah Ruh Khan looked fucking amazing, but I do want to criticize Tiana and Eggo. Eggo who also looked fantastic and has been fucking amazing on SNL this year. Whoever was producing for them on the Vogue red carpet to be interviewing people, did not give them the T on Shah, who is like the most famous person in the world. You know, I know that we’re very Americanized for a lot of our culture, but this man, like people, the way people shut down hotels outside for Gaga, like if you saw the video of people like, so you’re like, please, Gaga, outside of her hotel in Brazil. They shut down whole fucking blocks when he is at hotels. Like he is the most famous global superstar. And if he had been staying at one of those hotels where the rest of the celebrities were staying at, no one would have been able to get out. So I just think that there was more deference that needed to be paid to him. Being at that carpet, because he was the most famous person on that red carpet. Sort of similar, weirdly, to the way that the black pink girls are insanely famous and just walking amongst these regular celebrities. But Lisa, why did you have Rosa Parks on your panties? Why was Rosa Parks on your pussy? Oh, no. Okay. It is unfortunate. That’s where she most peeked out. She wanted to be in the front of the bus, not the front of the puss. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel That was a bad move. To be fair, we never asked Rosa if she wanted to be on the front of the bus. I don’t want you to assume. The Montgomery Puss boycott. She may have started at.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fair. Rosa Parks was actually in the first Savage X Fenty show. But Rosé, by the way, did love her hair, but I will say that Jenny looked amazing.

 

Louis Virtel Jenny always looks amazing. I have to say, even her Coachella look I love too.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, the look was the only good part about it.

 

Louis Virtel That’s what I was about to add.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Do we have any other looks that we just sort of really gagged for?

 

Juan Ramirez I think I covered all of mine. I did like Law Roach having this sort of Walter Mercado like blonde swoop thing. The pussy wig.

 

Ira Madison III She was playing I love

 

Juan Ramirez But what I love about this, I mean, I agree with you, I really like, I love this theme. It’s so good, it’s so like rich, you know, but I think also shout out to whoever handled the guest list because there were people here who I would just never, like, this has to be Lauryn Hill’s first, right? Or at least first in decades. And you’ll never see them again. Exactly, but, oh, well, no, sorry. They tried it out.

 

Ira Madison III They tried it out. They tried out these black people for black dandyism and Anna will lose their names next year I just want to know are like because some of these black. People fucking kill

 

Juan Ramirez it. No, there’s a textile artist, Eric Mack, who had this amazing suit with this like head scarf and he had this like thin little mustache, he looked so fucking good. Just more people who, I mean, don’t relegate it to like, if the race applies to that year’s theme, but people who apply to the theme and people you wouldn’t see and have them show up and show out.

 

Ira Madison III Cause obviously Janelle killed it. Obviously Tessa Thompson looked fucking great. I thought this is sort of one of the best that Jeremy O’Hara’s has ever looked. I love the dramaturgy in his look. It was fucking amazing. And that’s what you get from theater people. But these are people that you see at the Met Hill all the time. You know, Brian Tyree looked fucking amazing, but I’m like, some of these other black actors, it’s they shut down this fucking carpet in ways that we, and they were on theme in ways you normally don’t see from some of those white celebrities. And I just wanna know if they’ll be back next year. And they should be.

 

Louis Virtel They don’t announce the theme until well into it, right? Like we have months and months to hear from that, right. It’s always-

 

Juan Ramirez Earlier than you think. I’ll say that.

 

Louis Virtel I’ll say that.

 

Juan Ramirez But I will put co-chair of the event Pharrell on Timeout because there was zero vision, zero effort. Boring as hell. And maybe he said, I’m a black dandy IRL, so I don’t have to try for this one, but I was bored as hell! Are you kidding? And he’s a co-chair?

 

Ira Madison III I thought you were a Lego first of all, bitch. Listen, I like that baby. I will go on the record.

 

Louis Virtel I really fucking like that movie. I know you told me to watch it and I need to see it. We should end this on a more traditional keep it note. Madonna was also at the Met Gala and she brought props. Her look basically revolved around a cigar, which to me called back to the single artwork for the deeper and deeper song from the early 90s. Great video where she’s dressed like Edie Sedgwick. You know, fine. Cause I also liked the cigar because again, I thought like a key part of the theme was swagger. Like you’re supposed to like kind of like kind of surge into a room, you know, demanding attention. And I think. Props are a big part of that.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I don’t know. She was sort of giving like, if I were a boy video. But look, oh, sorry. Not my favorite Beyonce song. Or wait, Beyonce did have a cigar in one of her videos about this. Dance for you. Yeah, dance for you, yeah. She was sorta giving that. I don’ know, it was just very expected for her and I was a little bored by it.

 

Louis Virtel We need to move on to the real thrust of this show, which is Broadway, and we will do that when we come back. But before that, some quick housekeeping. Trans people are under attack by weirdos who think trans people shouldn’t exist, and billionaire sex pests should. Stand up for the trans community and a trans people have always existed t-shirt or tote at The Crooked Store. Show your defiance with a statement that isn’t actually radical at all. Head to crooked.com slash store to shop. All right. When we’re back, we’re joined by Tony nominee Darren Chris.

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III This week’s guest is a true triple threat, constantly scorching the stage and screen with his inextinguishable talent. He’s won an Emmy, a Golden Globe, and the adoration of Glee fans like myself everywhere. And now, after giving a sensational performance in the Broadway musical, Maybe Happy Ending, he could be adding a Tony to that list very soon. So without further ado, please welcome to keep it Darren Criss, recent Tony nominee.

 

Darren Criss Thank you very much.

 

Louis Virtel I feel always so bad talking to people on Broadway on their Monday off. I just, I’m like, how can you be buoyant at all? I feel like this is just gonna be a time where you like sit in like an oven or a tanning bed and just weep or something.

 

Darren Criss I just came from that. Oh yeah. So perfect. No, dude, it’s, I mean, there’s a lot to say there. I appreciate your diplomacy, but I don’t need much. I think Broadway workhorses are like this, but our queen, Miss Lepone, talks about this all the time, about the sort of like workhorse ethic of theater people. Um, which is not to trivialize or minimize people that work in other fields of entertainment. Everybody has their own wiring and as I like to say, everybody’s got their own superpowers, There’s plenty of things that you guys can do that I can’t do, like and vice versa and everybody on the planet has their on sort of like, you know, thing to add to the X-Men. And there’s just a workhorse sort of mentality that I… I don’t mind doing the show as often as I do. I like to. It gets me going and in order to feel relaxed or, you know, like I just, I relax in real That’s the trick. Like while I’m working hard, I am relaxing. Like I’m pretty diligent, if not militant, about doing both things like in tandem. So at any point I’m like, God, I could really just use your day to do this. It’s like I work it into the schedule as it were. Don’t worry. This is this is all part of it and and it’s fun for me really like I’m I don’t work in a fucking coal mine And harsh protected conditions like this is it’s all a joy I get to talk to you guys like this hardly Bugging me it was in the calendar you have headphones on and we’re talking for like a podcast. This was like pretty glamorous

 

Louis Virtel It’s nice that you have such a philosophical idea about your personal battery life and are in a show about battery life. Oh, yeah, I know.

 

Darren Criss Oh yeah, I know that a lot of art is imitating life, like there’s just there’s yes, there’s a lot there

 

Ira Madison III Have you guys seen the show? I’ve seen it twice.

 

Darren Criss Get out of here!

 

Ira Madison III And I’ve cried both times, many times. I won’t mention how many times I’ve cried watching this show, but it’s really beautiful. And I also, this is frequently the show that I recommend to friends who say that they don’t like musicals. And I don’t know why I’m friends with these people, but whenever they’re like, I want to see you play, but they’re, like, I don’ really like musical, and then they state musicals that they love, which are great. People have weird brains, but I always tell them to go and see this show. Because the music is just so beautiful, but it doesn’t feel like a, you know, stop and start Gilbert and Sullivan.

 

Darren Criss I would agree. It’s easily one of the most successful things I’ve ever been a part of in my life. Easily. Usually there’s like a paywall of sorts. Not literally, but figuratively I guess as well. There’s only so much access things can have and one of great lines that this piece walks that is the… If everybody knew the secret to this alchemy, everybody would have hits all the time. But it’s damn near impossible to try and manufacturer way to put the lightning in the bottle and that is being able to walk at the right time and place the line of accessibility and sophistication. This is in all realms of commercial entertainment, this is the goal, but it’s just damn near impossible and it’s going to oscillate or there’s going be different like, you know, things that are pretty broad and things that perhaps if you you know, long for something more cerebral or again, sophisticated or heightened, you might be, you know might be jeopardizing a bit of that element and so people that want something a little more erudite might be a little put off. And same goes for the other way around. It’s like there are things that I love on Broadway that I will watch going like This is not for- most people. This is like scratching a very pretentious esoteric itch that I happen to subscribe to, but by no means would I ever expect anybody to like this. This is hard to ingest. And so, you know, it’s hard to go back and forth. So yeah, there’s a thing about the show that feels so familiar, but also so new. It’s like Yeah, it’s very, very cool to recommend to people because you can know everything about theater and dig this, I think, and know fuck all and still be into it. Like, I’m a big show queen, I see everything, I don’t miss anything, I know too much, like I’m encumbered and frankly burdened by knowing too much and having too much expectation and hope for this medium, and that sucks, you know? Like as you get older and you have too much in your in your Memory bank if you want to keep going this is this metaphor will keep coming back. This is a very

 

Ira Madison III Are there things you like have seen while you because you’re working on this show?

 

Darren Criss I see everything I don’t miss a thing unless I there’s literally maybe five or six shows this season that we’re just like Impossible like we had the exact same thing but yeah every show has that odd Monday or that Thursday night because some actor had some thing or they’re opening night or a holiday so I Again, like I said, I’m very diligent if not militant about like making sure that my leisure time and things that I enjoy Can be accounted for so Anyway, yeah, I was just going to say, I don’t envy shows where people come in with that expectation. You know, like our dear Audra down the street from me, who is a fucking animal and is an extraordinary performer and inspiration to us all. She’s got the weight of the world on her because she’s got to rip her soul out for like three and a half hours, eight times a week for a role that most people going in there are pretty damn familiar with, music they’re pretty damn familiar with. Guys like me going like, how’s she gonna sing this one? And that’s dumb, you know, like you gotta put yourself in the head space of like a 12 year old that doesn’t know anything about this character or this story or these songs and just have the objective wow factor. And so that’s what’s so great about being in the show where like I, nobody, I feel the audience every time like kind of going, like rubbing their eyes and going like, wait, what? And that a really magical privileged place to get to be in cause we are this new thing. Because anytime I’ve done a show in New York, it’s been a show that was like known and was awesome well before I got there and would have been just as awesome if I never touched it. So having that newness is great. If you guys can’t tell, I’m very talkative about the show because I love it so much. I gather that. Yeah, I do.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna have to stop me. Keep me on the tracks. Well, no, I’m like heartened to hear that You’ve gotten to see these other shows especially since you’ve always conveyed that you’re such a huge fan of Broadway But like so have you seen the people you’re nominated against in the Best Actor category?

 

Darren Criss Of course, I’ve seen every single one except one and I plan on seeing it before the big show in June. There is no world where I walk into Radio City Music Hall on June 8th where I have not seen and every single person’s performance.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, I wish people treated the Oscars this way. We’ll have nominees on here and they’re kind of like, oh, I’ve seen like half of them or whatever. So the fact that you can do that and it literally is like an Olympic undertaking to do, like people should take note.

 

Darren Criss Well, listen, it’s not a cheap habit. I spent a mild fortune on getting to do this. I was joking earlier about a paywall. I wish Broadway was more financially accessible to more people. That’s a thing that we’ve been working on for years. I happen to work in the industry. These are all write-offs. These are things that are part of, that behooves me to go see beyond just my love of Broadway. It’s a professional thing that matters to me. And also, you know, I run this music festival. Called Elsie Fest, and it behooves my work to know exactly what the fuck is going on. I want to know who all the players are on the field, you know? So yeah, I will get to see it, but it’s hard. Not everybody can do it, and I don’t, you know, if there’s other performers, again, if Audra’s like, wow, I didn’t get a chance to see Nicole. How could she, you know, she’s, they’re both working their asses off, like there’s no, there should be no expectation that it’s possible. I’m just slightly psychotic. So, you know, to each their own, I don’t think it’s like a bad thing if you can’t because everybody’s really working their

 

Louis Virtel Now that you’ve brought this up, I have to ask, and I’m not asking you to pick a favorite, but this, and also of course, Death Becomes are like, those two performances are in that category too, but Audra and Nicole, like, Ira and I can’t stop talking about those two performances. We’ve been just, you know, obsessed with those people for years and years and Where do you come in watching Sunset Boulevard and Gypsy and those takes on those very familiar roles.

 

Darren Criss Well, like I said, I know too much and I somewhat notoriously never have anything negative to say about anything. Not because I’m like Mr. Diplomacy, but because I, there’s too much value in what everybody in this industry is doing and has done to get to be doing what they’re doing. Like we’re in the Olympic fucking tent, man. Like this is it. Like, even if you didn’t like… A show or it’s music or something didn’t click with you. At this point, it’s just taste and context. Like, as far as ability is concerned, this is it. This is the highest level. So when you see something, you’re like, geez, this was the best we got. Yes. If it was not for you, you still have to contextualize the artisans that had to work their fucking asses off to get to that situation. So, that’s a huge broad stroke about not just people performing, but people creating and producing, right? But for women like that, I mean, you know, look, it’s like, how can you possibly be said against? And I was being, again, the guy I say I’m not, Mr. Diplomacy. It really is a with thing. There are so many, those are just two widely different performances and widely different shows and contexts and offer different things and they have different contexts and they mean stuff. And then, you know, when you talk about, there are so things about things in the accolade space that have nothing to do with the performance or the person. There’s also this weird sort of like… Kaleidoscope of things that have to be happening in pop culture for to just sway somebody with a voting power in one direction or the other, where it does kind of come down to class president politics of like, I like her.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, people are debating those two obviously, but I am just so

 

Darren Criss I’ve seen Boop twice as well. I love that show. I’m only mentioning those two women because you just mentioned them. I could have applied what I said to any configuration of those women. Of course. That wasn’t like a favorites picking.

 

Ira Madison III Louis likes death matches. He missed a celebrity death match from MTV.

 

Darren Criss Broadway deathmatch is a whole other thing, I don’t know if it’s bloody or just maybe more fabulous. I’m a big fan I should just say of Death Becomes Her. Doing this show at this moment in time for me is there’s just not enough time for me to really articulate how special it is for me. I’ve said this ad nauseam across podcasts and interviews, but I will say it a millionth times just because I want you guys to know where I’m at. The show is like… The greatest possible thing that could be happening to me in my life, at this juncture in my live, professionally, personally, and professionally I should say artistically, I can’t put those together, but like, professionally slash artistically. Personally, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. Like there’s no higher rung in the ladder, this is it, and then there’s all these other like personal footnotes, which connects to Death Becomes Her. One of my best buddies growing up in San Francisco, that I grew up doing theater with, I’ve known this girl since she was five, is Julia Madison. And she is one of the two of the duo that wrote the music for for Deaf Becomes Her. We’re like doing it together, you know? We’re seeing each other’s bars afterwards going like, dude, can you fucking believe this shit? And it is just like the sheer, I will use the word because it was a word before it was the popular TV show, the sheer glee that it like gives my soul to like see this happening between friends and colleagues is fun. And back to the YouTube denomination thing, like these aren’t like, you now I, I’ve just recently met Tom. And we’ve been, you know, we’ve kind of become chummy and we all have plans to get together and kind of have a kiki just between us before we have to do this in front of people. But I’ve met every single person. I’ve paid money to see every single do a thing, whether it’s the thing they’re doing now or the thing that they’ve done before. Like there’s just a familial thing going on. Like, there are people that I’ve been nominated with in other mediums. Like that I’m a huge fan of that like I never got to meet and I was like bummed about it like I really wanted to meet some of these people and Because you’re not working within ten blocks of each other and because you’re Not doing it at the same time because it’s not in the can you know I always say it’s about Tony’s like Dude like you know Everybody at the Tony’s is still doing the thing and no matter what happens for them on Sunday They’re gonna fucking do the thing again on to most of them are gonna do it again on Tuesday as opposed to like the Grammys or Emmys or Oscars, it’s like, it’s done. They did it like a year ago. And what’s even better, and this is my favorite thing to tell people, especially non-theater people, like if you ever are watching the Tonys, or you watch a YouTube performance of Patti doing Vita in the 80s, and she’s just giving, she’s fucking doing it all, just ripping it out.

 

Ira Madison III I love that performance.

 

Darren Criss That’s an iconic performance, right? So she’s in the bed, she’s singing her fucking tits off. Dude, that’s the second time she’s… Actually, it’s probably the third or fourth time she has done it that day because she would have rehearsed for it that morning, then did a matinee. She did a show. And she got out of the hair and makeup and the wig and everything. And then she got into a new look, walked the carpet, answered questions, sat down in the look. Watch the show, then somebody with a clipboard and earpiece went, all right, Mr. Poland, you’re ready to go. Should you go backstage, get back in the hair, makeup, wig, do it again, and then sit back down. Like, any performance you’re watching, you’re like, they had a matinee. They just did this. It’s like, the joy that it would give me if it was like, and ladies and gentlemen, now for her 27th, her 159th Oscar nomination, Meryl Streep will now perform a monolog for it from the film in which she’s nominated. Yes, and she goes up and she does it. Like your lips to God’s ears.

 

Louis Virtel We should be petitioning for things like that.

 

Darren Criss That would be so cool. I mean, it’s just that, I mean it would be absurd, but like, you know, like I get a certain pride about, again, the workhorse ethic of like everybody here has is doing it and will like has just did it and we’ll do it in two days no matter how this night shakes out. And that is, I have such profound respect and admiration for that.

 

Ira Madison III It’s absolutely fun to just being, I mean, I was at Dead Outlaw Thursday when after the nominations, and it’s always fun like being in the theater after the nomination have happened, or after someone wins, people are just very happy. The audiences, you get to celebrate those people. I want to ask you one last question before we go. I have a question about you being in one of my favorite shows, Little Shop of Horrors. I’ve seen most I saw you. I’ve seeing mostly every Seymour Whatever there’s a new cast member I go and see I fucking love that show But I just want to know did you get to see many of the Seymours before you were Seymore? And then how is that when you’re not just I guess playing a role that people know but playing a row where people are Continuing to come in and give a new version of the same role like every few months

 

Darren Criss So first of all, that’s amazing that you’ve gone to see that many times and I’m so grateful just for that as a concept that you exist. That’s amazing. Thank you for doing that. Two, which honestly should have been one, let’s hear it for the off-Broadway production of Little Shop at the Tonys. Joy Woods, Jeremy Jordan, Jonathan Groff, yours truly, Connor Ricamora, and forgive me if I’m forgetting anybody else. I mentioned being a part of shows that were graded before you got there. Every single person that was in that show would have grown up with some sort of connection to that show. In the way that you love that show, I think it’s a near perfect if not perfect piece. It’s the ultimate wish fulfillment. You get to play pretend in your favorite story. If this is what we do as children and we get to do professionally, getting to be part of your favorite thing is the ultimate version. That’s what that’s what Hedwig was for me. Hedwig was such a massive part of my life as a teenager. Just everything that it was about, the music, the subversiveness, the rock and roll-ness, it kind of just checked all the boxes for me. So getting to do that on Broadway 10 years ago at the same theater that I’m doing Maybe Happy Ending now, it was a dream come true. So, I keep saying this phrase but that’s why I love the theater. It’s the closest thing that you can come to. Sort of getting to honor the things that inspired you, a sort of paradigm is standards. You know, probably has standards, there are standard plays, right? Seminal favorites, there are works that we can do. It’s not like I’m going to sit here and then I’m paint you my starry night. That’s forever the thing. And in many ways, film is like that, shy of remakes. But for the most part, theater is the theater and like singing standards. Like Ella can sing a Cole Porter song, but then like Beyonce can sing one and they’re both honoring Cole Porter, but like the inevitable differences in their voice and nuance and context and arrangements and reharmonizing can recontextualize it infinitely, even though at the end of the day. The play is the thing, the song’s the thing. And so with things like Little Shop, it’s a way for me to like honor things that I think are just so much bigger than me and getting to be part of this ancient conversation of like, we talk a lot about spirits and the ghosts of theater. That show was really special to me because of Howard Ashman, who is like my personal Jesus and a man that is, even though I never met him, I’ve always felt sort of like Cosmically connected to and somebody who I’ve always Used as even though I can’t I never knew him personally But like my north star of like what would Howard think of this like from what I can deduce of what Howard made in life would he would he fuck with this, you know and Doing that show was a way for me to be a part of that legacy and honoring him So, um, I don’t know if that was your question but as far as getting to see other people, of course, I saw other people because I love I I love that The song, the play, I love the, the things that make these things special are so much more than the performers. Like, if it was just the performers, then the show would close without that performer and nobody would care, but there’s an enduring spirit to these things, which is why, again, getting to redo pieces of theater or something. Dude, ideal scenario, I get to see somebody else do Oliver in many years from now, somewhere else in another place and time. And go, whoa, I did not see that before. Like that is a beautiful hope, you know? I hope that I get to experience that. And that person would get to do that too in their life. Like that’s the wonderful thing about the sort of like the transience of theater, but at the same time, this sort of enduring passing on this of something that is so ephemeral it’s like it’s you had to be there but also it can live on forever which also is kind of something but maybe happy ending is about so there’s a lot of a lot to unpack there speaking of that one last question about met maybe happy-ending watching clips from this that was so sweet because he hasn’t seen it so he’s really got the clips to go off of ira i live in la i’ll be there soon wait before you ask this question i’m so sorry but like ira having seen this How hard has it been to explain to Louis like what this is? Like this is, it’s such a joy for me and a challenge. I think my favorite stories of all time are like impossible to like communicate. Like all the best, all of our favorite IP is so dumb on paper, right? So I can only imagine you, I’ve seen this twice, trying to like sell Louis on it. It’s impossible.

 

Ira Madison III I just tell people it’s robots in Korea, it’s the future, and the music is beautiful.

 

Darren Criss Great. That’s all you need to know. The less you know, the better. I will just say that. I think seeing the show rewards anonymity. But go on, Louis. What clips are we talking about while I’m grilling you?

 

Louis Virtel Your acting choices are so fun and eye-popping to watch on the screen. Something I feel bad about is that when you’re interviewing a Broadway actor about a show they’re in, they don’t even know really what they’ll miss when the show is over. What do you suspect you will miss about this show once you actually finally leave it?

 

Darren Criss I don’t know, it’s kind of hard to project what you’ll miss when you’re not in a position to be missing it. I think a question like I’ve gotten twice now it’s like what have you learned from this experience? And I’m like you’ll have to ask me once the experience is in the rear view mirror. Like it’s I’m still in the car like I’m on the fucking roller coaster and I’m just going woo! So I really don’t what to say because I’m kind of in it. I miss all of it. It’s all a collective thing, like holistically, like, you know, the show is about… We were talking about the sort of meta connections between life and art and this piece, like… Yeah, I will be very sad when this thing is over, but by the time that is, which I hope will be a very long time from now, the shows about being okay with things being over maybe. So it kind of it kind of is built in this like, pillow. For you to land. It’s almost designed for sentimental people like myself that will be, you know, very sad to leave something like this. But again, this show is about embracing things while they’re there and being okay with them not and also understanding that they are there in another sort of profound way, not unlike the things I was saying about theater itself. So there’s many layers to this thing where it’s commenting on itself at all times. So, um I will miss it, but I will also be at peace with it. There’s a great line in one of the songs that the other robot on stage, Claire, played by the staggering Broadway debut of Helen J. Shen, she has a song called, She’s Incredible. It’s for the Broadway history books. I feel like I, again, the many lists of why this is amazing, the endless list, one of them is I have a front row seat to what I believe to be a historic Broadway performance every night. And it’s one of the great Like, joys of this whole experience. What was I going to say? She says in the song, the way that it has to be, she says, when that final moment comes, excuse me. She says, When that final moments comes, I’ll say hi and shake its hand, be polite and let it in. And I just think there’s a real grace to being okay with things kind of running their course. That is not easy, but you know. Goals, if you have the resilience and the fortitude for it, I think it’s a beautiful way to look at anything that you’ve enjoyed. So hopefully I’ll have that same attitude. But I don’t need to happen anytime soon.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you so much for being here with us, Tara.

 

Darren Criss And such a joy. Oh my God. I could talk to you guys forever.

 

Louis Virtel And good luck at the Tony’s with all your fellow nominees, not against them.

 

Darren Criss Thank you. Thank you very much. We say break a leg Louis. You’ll find that out when you come to New York.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you to Darren Criss. Maybe Happy Ending is running now at the Belasco Theater, so grab your tickets while you can. When we’re back, it’s time for our Broadway preview.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III The Tony nominations are out. Variety’s Broadway edition of Actors on Actors is out, and Louis, Juan, and I have seen just about all the theater we can at this point, so there’s no better time for our annual theater review. We’ll get into the highs, the lows, and snubs from this season, starting with these nominations. All right, Juan. You’re our guest of honor. What are you feeling about these Tony nominations?

 

Juan Ramirez It was a very strong year, and I love when Tonys make statements that I agree with in who they shut out and how hard, by which I mean Kieran Culkin, let me never see you again. No! You did not like him in Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. He was miscast. I also was someone who never watched Succession. I feel more vindicated than ever in that decision. He was horrible. However, I would have given it to Bill Burr over Bob Odenkirk for Featured Actor.

 

Louis Virtel That was very surprising to me. I don’t feel like anybody predicted. Well, first of all, I don’ think anybody predicted that Kieran Culkin would be snubbed. So that was like a sharply defiant statement. But secondly, I really thought Bill Burr was gonna get in. That felt really shocking to me

 

Juan Ramirez He was great. I mean, listen, this is the most sort of de-fanged in the world of beta male Glengarry I have ever seen. And Bill was just the only one who, you know, Bill, just the nasty language rolls off his tongue extremely well. Which is so funny because…

 

Ira Madison III Because I think that a more sort of acidic version of a Mammoth play we got recently, we didn’t get to bring it up with Darren, but I loved him, I loved American Buffalo. I thought that was much more acidic and felt like Mammot at his purest form.

 

Juan Ramirez Well that’s because it was in the round and you had What’s-his-face injuring audience members throwing shit around.

 

Ira Madison III Also, shout out, Othello. None for you and your $900 ticket prices.

 

Louis Virtel Now, okay, it has to be mainly about that, right? No, it’s boring. It’s bad and boring. But was it boring enough that you would snub Jake Gyllenhaal?

 

Juan Ramirez I think that, and I also thought Andrew Burnap as Casio was pretty fantastic. And he and Jake Gyllenhaal, if they weren’t nominated, I think it’s a strong year. And when you’re a production that everyone hates, that does drag you down. I don’t think I would necessarily replace anyone with the two of them, but it was a bad and boring production.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, I’m glad to hear that because even though I love the strong statement making as you said, if it was purely about the price gouging, I would have been a little bit like, okay, well people are salty. But to hear is like kind of nice and I’m sure Jake Gyllenhaal has a Tony somewhere in his future and of course Denzel is already a Tony winner.

 

Ira Madison III Which is crazy though, too, because his only nomination is for lead actor from Seawall in 2021. And he was, I don’t think that the revival of Sunday in the park with George was, well, it withdrew from Tony’s consideration in 2017. It withdrew.

 

Juan Ramirez Because the producers did not want to waste potential ticket money on inviting Tony voters for free.

 

Ira Madison III Wow. Yeah, it was a very small run too. And they were like, let’s get that money. Let’s get them. But Jake Gyllenhaal definitely was nominated for that. Yeah, I mean, that’s one he could have won for.

 

Louis Virtel She loves the theater though, she’ll be back. We have to get to the main event though, which is the best actress in a musical category in which, extremely strong year, obviously both leads from Death Becomes Her God in obviously Nicole Scherzinger in Sons of Boulevard. We have the aforementioned Audra McDonald in Gypsy and then of course Jasmine Amy Rogers snuck in for Boop in a much beloved or Ira beloved production ahead of Helen Jason and maybe happy ending. Juan, help us. We’re overwhelmed with prestige and lady glory.

 

Juan Ramirez Okay, so what’s crazy is, and not to make this one of those things where people think it’s sexist for Ryan Gosling to be nominated and not Margot Robbie or whatever, but we do have two categories with six men for actor and only five for actress, which everyone was sort of saying, this has to be, we have so many leading actresses in the musical, this has be a sixth person slot. The mechanics of how nominations open up from four to five to six or more are Very weird. And archaic. Helen J. Shen, absolutely snubbed. I wouldn’t swap anybody out, I would just add her in. That said, you said Jasmine Amon Rogers snuck in. I would not be surprised if she won. This is truly a case of, there is one amazing thing in that production and you are watching before your very fucking eyes, a la Barbara in Funny Girl, just a star being completely born. She is so watchable, sounds amazing, looks amazing.

 

Ira Madison III She inhabits Betty Boop in such a fascinating, original way, and it’s sort of the way that you talked about Barbie, right? The way that Margot Robbie sort of inhabits Barbie. She inhabts Betty Boob, the cartoon, the way she’s sort confused by the real world. It’s very Barbie-esque, actually, the plot, and it, she’s so amazing. She sounds amazing. She is a fucking star. People are up on their fucking feet for her. With the standing ovation at the end. Like people are going crazy for her. I know that I’ve sort of proselytized about Boop, but it is worth it to see this show for her, she is amazing. Boop and Death Becomes Her are my two favorite musicals on Broadway right now, and I’m just so excited about them as original Broadway musicals. Like they’re fun, I mean, they’re based on IP, but they’re great.

 

Louis Virtel I still feel like touting the Scherzinger performance though, because what I’ll say is, I just don’t think before this version of this show, anybody would have ever considered like with one look to be a top tier musical theater song. And I think the way she performs it, which is the, for me, the only version I’ve heard of this Show where it gives actual dignity to the character of Norma Desmond. Like she actually reaches out like an old movie star and sort of acts like she still has the power of like, you know, whatever, Louise Brooks or Marlene Dietrich or someone from that time who, like. During the golden age of silent movies could like entrench you with one look, as the song is about. That to me alone is worth something. And obviously it’s also been the theatrical event of the year. Is there any, do you think the fact that it’s been running so long compared to Boop being a brand new moment, is, are voters thinking about that?

 

Juan Ramirez I think, I don’t know that it’s been running so long, even though it is crazy sort of the steep drop off between every gay person you know going to see that show and putting it on their Instagram story and then just sort of poof after a few months. I don’ know. Look, I appreciate your read on that song, on how Nicole performs that song giving it dignity. However, I just don’t think that as a character in the musical, not so much the film that I think adding dignity to her goes against the text, which is why I loved Glenn Close in the… 2016 revival who just absolutely goes for broke pathetic. That is a pathetic performance. And I mean that in the most brilliant way possible.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, she’s a little too sexy, too, you know, with the character. I’m like, why doesn’t Tom Francis want to fuck her? She’s extremely hot. She just did a split.

 

Louis Virtel Like I’d be spreading all over Sunset. She okay. She is indeed sexy, but at the same time, she’s like a ghoul like the way like every line is sort of like Like a jord, but you’re like a kind of bella lugosi that loser girl that he’s in love with in the show Now she is a loser

 

Ira Madison III Best love story is Loserville.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I have to say that actress, whoever she is, she’s really good. She has to put up with some lines, just like, oh, I hope I get this script done. Oh, look, my first script is done. Yeah, uh…

 

Juan Ramirez I’ll refrain from commenting on her performance, but my god, they really just have her in athleisure. Yeah. You know, she’s like being shot at and she’s wearing like a Nike waistband, it’s horrible.

 

Ira Madison III My main problem with Sunset Boulevard, as I said, I’d seen it finally after Louis had seen it, is there’s so much attention paid to the production itself, to the lead characters that everyone else is sort of almost under acting. And it’s like, you just swing back and forth from tone while watching it and no one else feels interesting or dynamic in the show at all.

 

Juan Ramirez I just don’t sense loss. I don’t register Nicole’s Norma as someone who is not relevant, not rich, not sexy, not capable or willing. I don’ know. Look, the production, it sounds amazing. There are moments when the screens are used that I am the only way I could say fucking gagged. Truly, the title credits is amazing. Tom Francis’ face. Tom Francis’s fate, I mean, look, we’ve thirsted after this child long enough on this episode, but he looks amazing in that intense thing. I just think that production, so much of it feels like jangling keys in front of an audience. I don’t know. It, that said gypsy, that’s sad. The counterpart gypsy that production could have jangled some more keys in my face and I would have loved it a bit more, even though I do think Audra’s giving a fantastic performance.

 

Ira Madison III They’re a bit lost in the conversation here, but Megan Hilty, Jennifer Samard are fucking gangbusters in this show. They are running this shit. Them and Christopher Seabart, they are amazing. I love Death Becomes Her. The three of them, fantastic performers. I love watching them.

 

Louis Virtel It also seems like if it weren’t for Oh, Mary, that would be the breakout comedic moment of the Broadway season. It seems like everybody comes out of that show thinking it’s fucking hilarious.

 

Juan Ramirez It’s definitely the breakout musical comedy in a way that everyone who has gone to see it or I’ve sent to go see it, or I have gone back to see it with says like, wow, I have not. Enjoyed a sort of just good old musical comedy like this in so long. And it also, I think, interestingly, you bring up, uh, you know, people, um, like shutting out high ticket prices or big money, whatever. This is fully a universal pictures, like Steven Spielberg backed project. However, it’s this thing of Oh, wow, this is what we can do when we have a billion dollars at work, um, with actual craft behind it in a way that I do not feel for Stranger Things, the first shadow, one of the worst things I’ve ever seen.

 

Louis Virtel Wow, it’s that bad. I’m surprised to hear it’s

 

Ira Madison III See you in the show.

 

Louis Virtel You came to current season? I’m not shocked. I haven’t kept up, I have to say. I do enjoy that Kay Bush girl. She popped off. Yeah, yeah.

 

Juan Ramirez The only reason I’m this hard on it is because the first act does and gives you enough of a plot so that someone like me who has never seen the show can follow it. And then the second act is completely unintelligible. They’re like it is just characters I’ve never seen before having interactions that have absolutely no weight to me. I don’t know. Maybe my edible was burning off but it’s like an act or something. I was bored as hell and I was really mad and the show ends. Oh God. The show ends with a screen in the bottom right that says like the Netflix keep watching or watch the credits thing. And the audience was hooting at that reference. And I was pissed at Netflix.

 

Ira Madison III Well speaking of Stranger Things, let’s move over to best performers by an actress in a leading role in a play where Sadie Sink is nominated for John Proctor is the Villain. And it’s puzzling because I would certainly not call her the lead of this play, even if her name is on the marquee. She’s in 20 minutes of this.

 

Juan Ramirez Oh, weird. She’s great. She is absolutely the least featured performance in that show. But here’s the thing. I surprisingly really like that play. So we have her name, we have the title, sold tickets.

 

Ira Madison III Let’s go. It is neck and neck with Purpose for my favorite current play of the season. I think Oh Mary is third because John Proctor is a villain and I’m sorry, John Procter is a villian is fantastic and hilarious and I love Purpose. I think it’s just such a good critique of black excellence and also theatrical conventions that I just feel like Oh Mary’s hilarious. Cola Scola is a once in a lifetime talent, they’re so funny, I cannot wait to see what else they do, but John Proctor’s the villain and Purpose just feel creatively more original and exciting to me. And of course.

 

Louis Virtel And of course, Purpose just won the Pulitzer Prize for drama, and O’Meary was a finalist. Isn’t it so weird that the Pulitzers run this way, that they’re like, here’s who won, and then here’s what we kind of considered? It’s like they can’t help but insult them a little bit, it’s funny. That’s funny.

 

Ira Madison III No, I actually love that because Juan and I’s friends, Patrick and Michael Breslin, were Pulitzer nominated for Circle Jerk. And listen, being Pulitzer-nominated is a flex.

 

Louis Virtel That’s no, it’s true, right? It’s better than not being. That’s true. Okay, we already talked about how Jasmine Amy Rogers was a definitive musical performance for you. Who do you think is the best acting performance nominated or not this year, Juan?

 

Juan Ramirez Interesting. I’ll say this, Purpose, I really liked it. And obviously it’s not a matter of, uh, you know, people who vote and nominators aren’t seeing the larger picture, right? They’re just seeing who they’re voting for and things fall as they do. The best performance in Purpose is by Alana Arenas, who is the only cast member not nominated. You got to feel bad, but there’s so many awards. She did just win, was the only one to win from Purpose the theater world award. Which also, and I do love the mad libs of this, but Shailene Woodley just won the 16th annual Dorothy Loudon Award for excellence in theater.

 

Ira Madison III Cult of Love was shut out. It’s gotta be the craziest thing. And I enjoyed that play quite a bit. It was shutout along with Job, which I thought at least could have been nominated for best play. Like the writing in it is so fucking good. But that’s also a play that I feel like was shocking to tell you, it adds more of a off-Broadway feel to it. Then I was shocked that it did so well on Broadway, to be honest. But Max Wolf Friedlich is an amazing playwright and I can’t wait to see what else he does next.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah. So Job is a play that started, um, two years ago, maybe now, a year, yeah, over a year ago off Broadway. And it’s about this sort of high, strong, uh, tech worker. I’ll leave it at that for, you know, future spoilers who has a very fraught meeting with her therapist and you have never seen an audience reaction change more than like me and the 30 other kids down to downtown. And then just old people being shook by what they were seeing on that stage on Broadway.

 

Ira Madison III And also what he does with the Chekhov’s gun is fantastic.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah, I also want to shout out English, which won the Pulitzer two years ago. Sort of came and went on Broadway. I’m glad it even got a Broadway run. I didn’t even get to see it. I felt like the run was so short. Tough. It was, but it has two actors, um, actresses featured role in the play Marjan Nishat and Tala Ash. It’s a play about this, uh, adult English learning class in Tehran in 2008, and it is just, I walked out of that the first time I saw it. The way that there’s like apocryphal stories of people walking out of death of a salesman and just sort of accidentally walking into traffic, you know, I was moved and I’m so glad it’s being recognized. I cannot wait to see what the player does next. Gorgeous play. I just want to shout that out. And I think that was a very strong ensemble. It was a good year for ensembles, which I think is why there’s a lot of tenseness as to who got in and who didn’t because you can’t nominate everyone.

 

Louis Virtel I was actually sort of surprised given the reactivity to these high octane ticket gougy productions that George Clooney still got in for Good Night and Good Luck. What was your take on that?

 

Ira Madison III People have a habit on for Clooney. That’s like, it’s the only explanation.

 

Louis Virtel Even with that hair dye, because girl, he is looking, it’s like, cool. It’s like he had a meeting with Frosty the Snowman and pillaged his outfit.

 

Juan Ramirez He looks sexy. I mean, that’s sort of one of the only ones that play God, if not the only one, but I mean whatever. It’s sort just the movie on stage. He’s fine. He’s pretty much behind a screen half the time he’s on stage, so you do feel a little cheated out of seeing George Clooney. I’m not pissed at that nomination.

 

Ira Madison III You know? Yeah, luckily I was seated house left where he is sitting at the desk and you can actually see his face and you’re not just watching the screen. But if you’re over there, you’re barely seeing him most of the play. And I sort of hated Good Night and Good Luck anyway, because it said so many lines that were pat on the back liberalism, like you could clap because, oh my God, isn’t that just like what’s happening politically now? It reminded me a lot of when Juan and I saw in A, the play about Nancy Pelosi and AOC.

 

Speaker 4 See ya!

 

Ira Madison III Which was a lot better.

 

Juan Ramirez By the way. A lot better than we had expected it to be, but I think a peak Nancy AOC play would just be like a cat fight in, you know, like a mud bath or something. Like, make it real fun.

 

Ira Madison III Make it real fun. It should have devolved it to dynasty. And instead it was very, but let’s just say the audience was laughing at every Nancy joke. And I think you even said, Juan, that this audience would, they would shoot AOC in the face. Oh, wow. They were like older liberals and they were just like, they were not vibing with any line that came out of AOC’s mouth.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, they found her. They find her a little lippy. I see. Yeah.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah, the Wednesday matinee crowd at Lincoln Center Theater was not ready to eat the rich or tax the rich. I’m going back to the met gala.

 

Ira Madison III I was also happy to see Daniel Day Kim nominated for Yellowface, which is a production that I actually quite enjoyed.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah, he’s great. He and Francis Ju, I think, who plays his dad are both nominated for that play. It was a great production. Sort of a very fun history lesson in theater. That sounds horrible.

 

Ira Madison III Not a history lesson as in, we’re teaching you history, but Yellow Face is a play that Henry Haven Way wrote about his own life. Like it’s sort of like a fictional biography of what happened to him after his first big production, which was in Butterfly. And that is why it feels like you’re steeping into. Theater in the 90s and finding out what was happening during that period. So that’s why it’s so fun. Who do we think is going to win for the actors? You know, best leading actor in a musical. We’ve got Darren, who’s nominated. He’s up against Andrew Duran from Dead Outlaw. And I mean, you and I were dead as an outlaw child last week and… I liked it. I don’t know what that means listeners. I like Dead Outlaws. The play is about Elmer MacCurdy who was a outlaw in the early 1900s and then dies and is mummified and his body was sort of carted around the US at various fairs and shows where they were showing outlaws until like the 70s where he was found by the producers of Million Dollar Man in LA, not in LA in Long Beach. I think that the first half of the play, which depicts his life, is very Forrest Gumpy and has no conflict and is very boring, but I think the second half of play is hilarious and goofy and weird and kooky, but it’s one of those things that I enjoy as a theatergoer, as like a person who just wants to see something weird, and I would never suggest that anyone spend money to see this play.

 

Juan Ramirez Rough, but you know, a little fair and I do think it might have overperformed at the Tony’s and there is the not impossible chance that it wins a lot of awards. And I think if it does, it’s not going to really take off with audiences and it’s going to close and it It’s going to be sort of an embarrassment for the Tonys. It’s not a cultural moment.

 

Ira Madison III You know, and I like David Yazbek, but it’s just like, it’s not a moment. It’s feeling like people think it could be like stereophonic, but it really not. And…

 

Louis Virtel I think this is a competitive category, though, because you’ve got Darren Criss and maybe Happy Ending. I feel like Jonathan Groff is not out of it for playing Bobby Darin and Justin Time and Jeremy Jordan and Floyd Collins. So I feel it’s like, I don’t know, you almost have to write a five paragraph essay about who you’re going to vote for.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah. And there’s also James Monroe Iglehart, who sort of brought about this Louis Armstrong musical. I mean, look, Jeremy Jordan sounds fucking incredible. It is so nice to have him in adult material, which is what Floyd Collins is. You know, it’s not newsies. He’s amazing in it. Jonathan Groff is great. He’s sort of, I mean… Justin Time is a very good, above average, biomusical about Bobby Darin. And he sells you on, you know, if you went in asking who the hell asked for a Bobby Daran. Biomusical, he sells it to you. Still don’t want to listen to that music though.

 

Louis Virtel No, Kevin Spacey really got me off of that, yeah, yeah. Did he play it for you once? No, oh yeah, we’re pals, did I not bring that up?

 

Juan Ramirez Louis records those videos. He drops everything. Happy Merry Christmas! I think it’s between Jeremy and Darren. Darren is doing something really special. It may be a happy ending. Louis, I know that you have no idea what I’m talking about. That’s right. But it’s a performance that starts out so big because he really is just playing this robot. And it took me about 90 seconds to lock in and say, oh no, he’s doing this. Okay, we’re doing the full robot.

 

Speaker 4 Mmm.

 

Juan Ramirez But he’s amazing and that show is really sort of heartwarming, heart wrenching, beautiful. I remember when it was being announced, it was delayed for a while because the technology hadn’t been sort of, you know, delivered or set up or whatever. And the producer said something to the effect of, guys, the way is worth it. This is technology and theater, the likes of which we haven’t seen since, you know, the original Chandelier and Phantom of the Opera. Insane thing to say and then you see it and it’s absolutely true. It is- A complete Marvel shout out to Michael Arden, who directed the shit out of this production. Our pal, yes. Who probably will win a second Tony. I mean, he truly masterful work.

 

Louis Virtel He can say faggot again at the Tony’s. I was going to say, guys, it can’t be underestimated that it took until Michael Arden for someone to say the f-word at the Tonys. Thank God. Well, on the mic. On mic. Yeah, that’s what it’d be like. As opposed to people just greeting each other with it. Baby, you know, Patti was slinging fagot around.

 

Juan Ramirez She went to the Tony’s with Jeffrey Richbrant, no. She should have, could you imagine if she had called George Clooney a faggot on their little Actors on Actors? She might have. Oh, she might have.

 

Louis Virtel He would beg for more. She could have. No, I’m sure Ethel Merman greeted people with that word, please. It’s a historical word.

 

Juan Ramirez I will shout out, featured role in the musical actor, Taylor Trench, he’s consistently been the best thing in everything he’s in. This is his first nomination. He was in Hello Dolly with Bette Midler. He was a truly awful, sorry, production of the play, of the movie, Safety Not Guaranteed, but he was amazing in it. He was on this batshit play with Cynthia Nixon called The Seven Year Disappear, where at one point Cynthia Nixon plays a poppered out priest who’s trying to fuck Taylor Trench. Male Priest. He’s amazing. And also, Berks Ashman says in Smash, the show which is not really getting its due, but I know Ira, you loved it as much as I did, if not more.

 

Ira Madison III Baby, I’m going to be a smash, okay? We are, I mean, I am booping right now with my Betty Boop cup, but my smash cup is right over there. I wore my smash hat to the gym today and I love the show. It’s stupid, sort of like the TV show was. It is better than the TV show, which was just bad, but the music was great. And this is at least funny and weird and biting, you know, it’s if you know the show, the TV show was about two women, Ivy and Karen, who were Megan Hilty and Katharine McPhee, fighting over the role of Marilyn Monroe in Bombshell the musical. And the play sort of says, we’re not going to have these divas fighting with each other. Instead, the Ivy character is going to get into method acting and become crazy. And Karen is her understudy, and she is sort of thwarted at her attempts to sort of assume the lead role, and then there’s this third extra thing, another woman who is vying for the play, but it’s just, it’s really nasty and funny about the concept of producing Broadway musicals and Broadway commercialism in general, and the music’s great, and I think it’s a really fun… Show, to be honest. It’s a fun Broadway musical, and Brooks is amazing. Brooks was in Uncoupled, which I wrote on, and I just think that Brooks is an amazing actor, and I’m glad that this is such a showcase.

 

Louis Virtel Also, before we move on, I want to shout out two people, one in O’Meary, which we’ve talked about before, so I’m not too sad to skip it now. Conrad Ricamora as Abe Lincoln in O’meary is fucking hilarious. The line right at the beginning when it’s revealed to us that Abe Lincoln is a horny gay person, he sees somebody bends over and goes, fuck, and I’m so sorry, it was hot. I am so sorry. Some people do something vocally and I am there for it. And then secondly… Kara Young in purpose. This is her fourth year in a row being nominated in the featured actress in a play She won last year. She gags it as usual. She is the Tony Queen. She’s like the queen of this award show now.

 

Ira Madison III Which by the way, I fully believe that Kara Young’s character is listening to Keep It in the play. Juan, reference the line.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah, I’ve got to ask the playwright, my close personal friend, I have never met him, Brendan Jacobs-Shankin, the Kara Young character, her best friend slash maybe romantic partner, it’s a whole thing, says something to the effect of, you know, I kept falling asleep on this long ass car ride. She kept listening to this podcast of these two gay guys just talking endlessly about pop culture.

 

Ira Madison III Who are intense about pop culture. And let’s just say there are many shows where two gay men discuss pop culture and Carrie Young’s character seems like a woman who’s read The Atlantic before. So she’s probably listening to keep it. She’s like, yeah, she’s listening to Keep It, okay? Okay, all right. Let’s just that. We can wrap this up with what do we think is winning Best Musical? What do we thing is winning best play and what is winning revival?

 

Juan Ramirez Well, best thirst trap is Orville Peck for the thing he just posted on his Instagram. He is currently slaying in Cabaret, a show, a production I have formerly hated. Everyone, please turn your attention to Orville Pikes Instagram. Thank you. Musical, I’ll give it to Maybe Happy Ending. As much as I love Death by Cumzer, I do think Maybe Happy ending advances the form in a way that’s really, really exciting. And it’s also got this great narrative. It almost closed before it even started previews because there was no interest in it. Then it completely turned it around. Has sort of become the darling of the season and everyone’s rooting for it. I’ll hand it to that. Buena Vista Social Club, I have not.

 

Ira Madison III Seen yet but you enjoyed.

 

Juan Ramirez Yes, mi gente latino, fabulous fucking play and their musical rather. It’s so fun. Justin Peck, who directed Illinois last year, the Suifan Stevens musical. He and his wife Patricia Delgado do the choreography here. so much fun. The band is getting a special Tony because they truly just like taking it on that stage.

 

Ira Madison III But yeah, I think that maybe happy ending really dropped sort of dead out law, which you like, but I didn’t love. Death Becomes Her, obviously, is fantastic. And Operation Mint’s Meet, a new musical, we were sort of both different on that play too. I think it’s fun and I like the British farce of it, but it’s a three-hour musical and it should really be 100 minutes. And then I would love it a lot more. Also, there are really no songs in it except for this one song called Bill’s Turn. A letter to Bill.

 

Juan Ramirez It’s a lot of sort of Hamilton-y recitatives as opposed to like distinct numbers, but I had fun, you know, it’s a farce. Play, Purpose or O’Mary? It has to be one of those two. It’s gonna be, it has to O’ Mary. You think it will win? I think Cole’s taking best actor and best play. God, that’s so exciting. O’Mary, like we cannot count out how insane it is that this faggy ass play from off-Broadway has been the runaway hit of the season.

 

Louis Virtel And also broad comedy, I mean, it’s very current in how insane it is, but it’s so classic, too. You’re watching, I don’t know, the whiz-bang of an early screwball comedy as much as you’re watching this completely faggy show.

 

Ira Madison III Bring back real comedies to Broadway, too, because, you know, we saw Plaza Suite, and there were no laughs. No. Right.

 

Juan Ramirez Right. And I mean, they were very smart. They brought in Betty Gilpin, who was amazing. They brought out Titus Burgess, who is amazing and is coming back. And the play just suits all these different people in the way that for a second, it looked like maybe Cole could be the only one. I love O’Mary. I would absolutely love for her to win. Yeah. Revival of a play? Revival play. We have Eureka Day, which is sort of a category fraud. There’s the rules against what’s revival and what’s new or odd. But it was fine. I liked it. Romeo plus Juliet. You know, Gen Z take on the classic. I didn’t hate it as much as I thought I would. I actually kind of quite liked it. Art Town is pretty good. And Yellowface, this is a weird category.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like that’s what’s going to win too. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Who isn’t our town that mattered? Jim Parsons, Zoe Deutsch, and Katie Holmes. Yeah. Zoe Deutsch still really good in that movie. Everybody wants some, I have to say.

 

Juan Ramirez Exactly. Say that. Yes. OK.

 

Louis Virtel And revival of a musical, this is interesting, Sunset Boulevard, Gypsy, Floyd Collins, Pirates, the Penzance musical. I feel like it’s going to go to Sunset Blvd.

 

Ira Madison III I think so as well. But I do really want to see Pirates, which feels like it just sort of came out. But I really want. Monsoon in it.

 

Juan Ramirez Jinx would have been an amazing nomination by the way. She really, really does like Gilbert and Sullivan well. But yeah, the Tony’s did not show that production much love. If before it seemed like it was Sunset versus Gypsy, the fact that Gypsy did not get a director nomination is I think the telltale sign. I love that Jinx wants to.

 

Louis Virtel And we just have a drag queen whose whole thing is kind of the 1880s, you know, just like from like pre vaudeville, like we haven’t even gotten to vaudeville yet.

 

Ira Madison III Get Jinx and call in a show next.

 

Love that. And of course Jinx should probably be great in O Mary. So there ya go.

 

Ira Madison III All right, when we are back, our favorite segment of the episode, it’s keep it. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It Juan. As our guest of honor this week, you get to go first.

 

Juan Ramirez Thank you. So for this one, I’m going to rely on Louis to tell me what’s going on because I have, I don’t live in California. I lived in California.

 

Louis Virtel As you know, I am a reporter here. As you know, I’m a reporter here. I’m up to date on all the issues.

 

Juan Ramirez You’re going to have to explain to me why I thought that your governor, Gavin Newsom, was a good guy. And then a few weeks ago, him being a straight man, of course, he has a podcast. And of course he brought out that hideous twerp, Charlie Kirk, to talk about how he does not believe trans women should be allowed to play in sports. That was a few years ago. And then now he wants to collaborate with the Trump administration to, quote, make America film again. So was I just being bamboozled by the fact that he was kind of pro-gay?

 

Louis Virtel Well, his whole thing now is bringing up like, I need to reach across the aisle and isn’t this going to be exciting when I reach across to the aisle? And it turns out when you reach across the idle, you set yourself on fire because it’s on fire over there. So I don’t know why he would do that, touching the stove again and again. But he’s like, I mean like, you’ll even have a conversation with someone like Bill Maher and we think it’s supposed to be productive and it’s like no, but we don’t come to, what do you think we’re going to come to? Like a compromise or an actual meeting of minds here? Like it just. Not how it works. So it feels very kind of Pollyanna-ish of him and at worst disgusting.

 

Juan Ramirez Yeah, because see the thing is like Trump announced these like, you know, maybe upcoming like film tariffs, who knows what’s going to happen with that. So when I hear that Gavin Newsom wants to collaborate with him, obvious knee-jerk reaction against that. But then I think, okay, you what? No, maybe, you, know, he’s sort of trying to find the light in this and really sort of uphold American film. But then the statement he released said he is eager to partner with the Trump administration to further strengthen domestic production and make America film again. Keep it to the phrase, make America film again. I am sick. Most American films suck.

 

Louis Virtel To be honest. Yeah, I’m not like super determined for them to be here either, right? Where is this initiative?

 

Juan Ramirez Okay, it’s just going to be more green screens for Marvel movies that are in a back lot. We’ll bring back back lots, I guess.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I mean, listen, first of all, Gavin Newsom used to be a bit sexier. And you know what happens when you have a white man with some gray hair who looks hot and lays sort of on an animal print rug with a shirt kind of open. He like, he used to turn us on. Has that happened? Yes. Him and Kimberly Guilfoyle, which by the way, he’s to be married to before she started dating and was briefly engaged to Don Jr. This is lore. Okay. This is political history, Juan. These are things that used to happen. We used to sort of like him, but now he’s just an asshole. And I want to say about the movie industry thing too. It’s sort of weird because you have the movie industry in America is dying a very fast death, which Donald Trump posted on his social platform. I just want to that it’s annoying and it’s stupid coming from him because so many of our films are actually shot in other countries. Like people don’t know how many of their favorite films scenes were shot. In other countries, or just parts of them, et cetera. A lot of these Marvel movies too, by the way. But in a way, there’s something that Gavin Newsom needs to be doing that actually is not partnering with Trump, but focusing on filming more stuff in California, for one, because we’re talking about films, let’s talk about the fucking TV industry, because there are 40% less TV writing jobs since the writer’s strike, which means, you know. The workforce is dwindling, baby. We’re not making TV shows like we used to be. Studios and networks are just fucking not paying writers, or you have writers who are now writing limited run series by themselves so they’re not hiring staffs. That’s the shit we need to be focusing on. We’re focusing on this make American film again nonsense. That’s bullshit.

 

Louis Virtel Well, also, by the way, I feel like Trump’s whole thing is he was recently inspired literally by a meeting with John Voight, who, as you know, finger on the pulse. If you want somebody to interpret the news for you, please let it be Angelina Jolie’s father that she hasn’t spoke to in 100 years.

 

Ira Madison III And also the American films that he’s been in, like his appearance in Home Alone 2, Lost in New York, that’s what he wants. If movies were still made in America, then I would be in them again, right?

 

Louis Virtel No, literally. I mean, did he buy, like, accidentally a Korean DVD of Home Alone 2 that doesn’t play on his player at home? And he’s like, make America film again. Like, it could be

 

Ira Madison III My Keep It continues being mad at Donald Trump. Obviously he has the tariffs on film, but also to keep in with our theater talk this week, the National Endowment for the Arts has cut grants for theaters because Trump is proposing eliminating the agency. Fuck him. Like this is a thing that actually is creating art in America, by the way. You know, like theaters across the country rely on grants and I see some like stupid shit online from some idiot producer in the comments of an Instagram post and I hate being one of those people who argues on Instagram post with people you’ll never meet, but it’s like theater production should only produce things with the money that they make from ticket sales, et cetera. That is not how theater works. It is from benefactors and it’s from grants and it from endowments and that is how art. Fucking works in this country, and this is just continuing this trend of destroying all creative, interesting thought that could possibly do anything to upset the Trump administration. And you know, I mean, theater, sort of right now, is just like the most dangerous art form, you know? Because films are so fucking hard to get made, and TV’s doing whatever it’s doing right now. But theater, you get just some playwrights and some actors in a dark room. Where conservatives have no idea what’s fucking going on until they hear about it later. I’m sure they don’t even know that Betty Boop is played by a black woman in Boop. They’ll find out at the Tony’s if she wins, right? Or if they try to make a movie about it, they’ll be in arms and will be like, well, it was running on Broadway for quite some time. You could have found out about it. Theater is sort of like the bastion where they don’ know what the fuck is going on.

 

Louis Virtel He’s also just slashing funds wherever anything seems remotely liberal. So it’s like this like vindictive idea at wokeness, right? Like that’s what that means altogether. And people just have this like animal instinct to think that’s really handling things. That’s making the government quote unquote more efficient. So it just, it’s meaninglessly unhelpful.

 

Ira Madison III Which is so stupid too, because a lot of the classics, the standards, these Death of a Salesman, et cetera, these were considered crazy, woke things that shook audiences like in the 50s and 60s. So time makes things less woke, but we need to really be fostering the arts and theater in this fucking country, and it pisses me off.

 

Louis Virtel Well, speaking of woke, that gets into my keep it, which is, did you know I was bamboozled by Met Gala fake photos, AI photos that happen every fucking year, including this one of Katy Perry wearing a like a liquidy, quote unquote Mugler outfit, where, to be honest, she looks sensational, but it’s a fake photo. And I just want to say keep it to the repetitive Met Galla. Online nonsense that occurs every year. I know the whole point is that we’re sick of seeing Jason Derulo fall down the stairs and we still post a picture of him, in quotes, falling down the steps or fake AI photos or whatever. Please just let the fashion be the moment. Please can it not be the non-intelligentsia out in the universe, like clogging my feed with non-real photos. Let me just look at Tiana Taylor. Let me look at Janelle Monae, et cetera. I don’t need the same non-commentary, the same like half laugh that expired in 2019 or whatever.

 

Juan Ramirez Katy Perry, Madonna and Celebrations Tour, and Agnetha and Annie Fried all just all coming for our asses with their lies.

 

Ira Madison III I knew Katy Perry wasn’t gonna be anywhere near that red carpet. First of all, she’s on, allegedly on the tour. The Lifetime Tour.

 

Louis Virtel Has that begun? I feel like that tour is actually getting red to filth up a bit hard. I mean, just like it’s a pop tour, like there’s gonna be some silly dance moves and she’s not you know, Twyla Tharp trained or whatever, so it’s not gonna be as complex as whatever and have an Ailey tour.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, I’ve seen it on TikTok. It looks horrible. I don’t need complex, Louis, okay? I went to see Yo Gabba Gabba at Coachella, okay. And that was a lot better than what I’m seeing from the Lifetime Store.

 

Juan Ramirez I mean, that sounds fun. Yeah, that was high.

 

Ira Madison III Wow, and it was great.

 

Louis Virtel That is our show. Juan, thank you so much for being here, as always, and clarifying the insanity of this Tony’s year, and also the Met Gala with us. You’re a real interpreter of pop culture, as it were. Thank you, Louis.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you for having me, both of you. Thank you also to Darren Criss for joining us and we will see you next week for more Keep And don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Louis Virtel Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Ira Madison III, Louis Virtel, and Kendra James.

 

Ira Madison III Our digital team is Delan Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gajewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support.

 

Louis Virtel Our head of production is Matt DeGroot, and Madeline Herringer is our head of programming. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

 

Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as filmed in front of a live studio audience.