• The Atlantic published the entire Signal conversation centered on strikes on Houthi militants in Yemen between multiple administration officials and, mistakenly, Atlantic editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg. Paul Rosenzweig, the former deputy assistant secretary for policy at the Department of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush, joins us to give us some context on the scale of the Signalgate scandal and what it would mean under any other president.
• And in headlines: Trump announced 25% tariffs on imported cars, the Supreme Court upheld requirements to regulate ghost-guns, and a Democrat defied all odds and flipped a seat in the Pennsylvania State Senate.

• Check out Paul’s story – https://tinyurl.com/3nn8zr3j
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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Thursday, March 27th. I’m Jane Coaston, this is What a Day, the show celebrating Will Smith for getting a street named after him in West Philadelphia, where he was born and raised. You know, on the playground, where he spent most of his days. Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool, and as I recall, shooting some B-ball outside of the school. [music break] On today’s show, surprise, President Donald Trump has gifted automakers with double-digit tariffs for cars made outside of the U.S., and the Supreme Court upholds a Biden rule on ghost guns. But let’s start with Signalgate, the controversy that continues to roil Capitol Hill. On Wednesday morning, The Atlantic published the full Signal Conversation centered on strikes on Houthi militants in Yemen between multiple administration officials and, mistakenly, Atlantic Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg. Trump administration officials had emphasized on pretty much every platform there is that nothing classified was in the conversation, but I did find it interesting that when asked by the Atlantic, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said in an email, quote, “This was intended to be, A, an internal and private deliberation amongst high level senior staff and sensitive information was discussed.” She went on to object to the release of the totally not classified totally fine for signal information. Sure. The chat itself contained a ton of information. Timings about when, quote, “the first bombs will definitely drop” and details about intelligence gathered at attack sites. And interestingly, a real-time debate about doing the strikes in the first place, with Vice President J.D. Vance voicing concerns that doing so helped Europe because, quote, “I just hate bailing out Europe again.” And that information, particularly the specific timings, if exposed beforehand, could have put American troops at real risk, as Colorado Democratic Representative Jason Crow attempted to explain on Fox News Wednesday. 

[clip of Representative Jason Crow] Let me explain how an SA3 and an SA6 works. These are the two systems that the Houthis have that they got from the Russians. If they know that aircraft are flying over a region or an area, not even a specific target, they can launch an SA3 and a SA6, much like they did when they shot down the MQ-9 Reaper drone last year. So they don’t need to know the exact location. 

Jane Coaston: In layman’s terms, yeah, the Houthi rebels could have absolutely shot down American aircraft and killed American service members with this information. Now, let’s be real here. This is the Trump administration. And unlike the first Trump administration, there are no adults in the room this time. Unless you count FBI Director Kash Patel and, um, you shouldn’t. So I am not expecting an independent investigation into how this happened. but I wanted to get some context on the scale of the scandal and what it would mean under pretty much any other president. So I had to talk to Paul Rosenzweig. He was a Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy at the Department of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush, and he teaches cybersecurity at George Washington University Law School. Paul, welcome to What a Day. 

Paul Rosenzweig: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: I think National Security Advisor Mike Waltz has been the most critical of this Signal snafu thing, but what do you make of the overall line from the Trump administration and Trump himself that this is no big deal even while many in the intelligence community and um most people watching this see this as an extraordinary security breach. 

Paul Rosenzweig: Uh. You have to be exceedingly credulous and unreservedly pro-Trump to think that this is not a big deal. To be sure, nobody died, which is to say that they only included a responsible journalist um who kept quiet. But um we don’t even need to imagine that it was a Russian on the on the call. It could easily have been another journalist, perhaps one with a different value set, um who immediately published this information on you know social media, X, blue sky, wherever, um at grave risk to American pilots. 

Jane Coaston: So it sounds like, and I’ve been thinking about this, they got exceedingly lucky. So what should the White House response be? 

Paul Rosenzweig: Well without, you know, demanding people being fired, which they won’t do. Ban the use of Signal for all high-level uh actors. Mandate that all future discussions of anything trenching on classified or military activity take place in the channels that are built for this. At a minimum, all the people need to be retrained. The Signal app needs to be taken off their phones, and the and the president needs to admonish them that if it ever happens again, they’re out of work. I mean, they should be out of work now. I mean that’s really what they should do. But I’m trying to be reasonable in answering your question in a way that might actually be responsive to what Trump should do. 

Jane Coaston: How would previous administrations have handled a scandal? And I’m I’m gonna call it a scandal. It is a scandal, we are calling it a scandal. But how would they have handled something of this nature? 

Paul Rosenzweig: Well first off, I don’t think that they would have happened to them. But I can tell you about what happened to me personally uh in this nature. I was participating in the discussion of a briefing that was to be given by the secretary I was working for to the president of the United States. And it was supposed to be an unclassified briefing. So we were working on it and editing it on unclassified systems. Uh somebody accidentally, I mean completely inadvertently, included one slide that had classified information. Once that was realized, all of the emails and versions of that were collected and destroyed from our unclassified system. I had to give my computer personally, the one I’d been using, to a security officer who swept it for the classified information and overwrote where that had been on my hard drive with random information. It took them two days before they gave me my computer back and all I had done would be was be the inadvertent recipient and then all of us got a um a retraining lecture, if you will, on, you know, let’s be careful out there. And it was completely accidental. But, you, know, that’s what a past administration did. And it’s routine, I think. Should be routine. 

Jane Coaston: Is this the sort of situation where a special counsel could or should be brought in? Or short of that, what are the other legal options available to the administration in a world in which they believed that they should face consequences? 

Paul Rosenzweig: Well if we lived in that mythical world. I mean, well, first off, before I get to the special counsel, another reason to ban the use of Signal is because Signal has the disappearing message–

Jane Coaston: Right. 

Paul Rosenzweig: Functionality. These are, without a doubt, presidential records that ought to be subject to the Presidential Records Act and thus preserved for posterity, even in a classified form for until they’re released in 50 years like JFK’s assassination files were just released. You know, as for special counsel, I guess I’m not really a fan of that. I don’t value prosecuting people for gross negligence at a criminal level. You know to be fair, clearly none of this was a deliberate effort, a purposeful effort to expose our our war plans, say, to the Russians. Which would warrant prosecution.

Jane Coaston: Right, but these are cabinet officials. This is, you know, the vice president of the United States speaking to the secretary of defense about war plans and then responding with flag and fist emojis. 

Paul Rosenzweig: I mean, they are miserable human beings who should never have been elected. They are clowns who are not competent. But I tend to think, I mean we’ve only used the gross negligence prosecution statute once before and that was with respect to Julian Assange. We usually reserve criminality for purposeful malicious intent and conduct you know, and think deliberate leaking. I 100% think that if we actually had, say, inspectors generals still, which we don’t because Trump fired them all, this would be a ripe topic for inspector general investigation. If we had a Congress that had a spine, which we don’t, this will be a ripe subject for congressional inquiry in the intelligence committees. Uh.

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Paul Rosenzweig: Scandal. 

Jane Coaston: We don’t have any of that, so what then? 

Paul Rosenzweig: Um, you know, you’re asking a bigger question than Signal gate, right? Uh, I mean, the, uh, for, for four years I’ve been saying that the electorate has to save us and they didn’t. For four years I’ve saying that Congress needs to change what it, what it’s doing and they haven’t. For 4 years. I’ve being saying that the courts are, are good, but not enough. And that’s still true. Um, you know, I mean the American people are getting what they voted for. They voted for a man who prizes loyalty over confidence. And this is a painful demonstration that they got exactly what they voted for. 

Jane Coaston: Is there a situation where you could imagine the administration would be actually compelled to really look into this? Like, what would it take for the administration? Now, keep in mind, I, you and I both know who is involved in this administration. What would it for this administration to take this seriously? 

Paul Rosenzweig: Um. If it were to recur, but the leak went to uh the Chinese People’s Liberation Army or um if it were to recur uh and American soldiers died because of the negligence. There’s very little I can imagine that would motivate Donald Trump to admit he’s wrong. He never does. 

Jane Coaston: And I’ve been thinking about the ways in which the Trump administration has attempted to flatten all means by which it can be stopped, including threatening outside law firms who have worked with Democrats or for Democratic causes. If the administration is squashing dissent from within, both with its hires and with it’s firing, and threatening outside firms too, where does that leave us? 

Paul Rosenzweig: In a difficult place. I just published an article in the Atlantic about how law firms need to step up and how Paul Weiss is a craven, coward institution. 

Jane Coaston: The law firm, Paul Weiss, yes. 

Paul Rosenzweig: Yeah, I’m sorry, the law firm Paul Weiss, that perhaps the adverse publicity there will embolden other law firms to step up. I saw a couple of congressmen and representatives, Don Bacon, for example, calling for an investigation. You know, if four Republicans are willing to vote with the Democrats to start one, maybe we can get something in the House of Representatives. But it’s just very hard and very difficult to do. 

Jane Coaston: Paul, thank you so much for being here. 

Paul Rosenzweig: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it very much. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Paul Rosenzweig, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy at the Department of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] What we’re going to be doing is a 25 percent tariff on all cars that are not made in the United States. If they’re made in the United States, there’s absolutely no tariff. 

Jane Coaston: Trump announced more tariffs Wednesday, this time on cars. The president signed an executive order to impose 25% tariffs on vehicles not made in the US. That is a huge jump from the current US tax on imported cars, which stands at 2.5%. Here’s Trump speaking to reporters in the Oval Office telling them that this is the greatest thing ever and we all win. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] I think we’re going to have a market the likes of which nobody’s ever seen before, not in this country. You know, we had the best market ever in my first term. It was the strongest market ever, the best economy ever. And I think you’re going to, I think this blows it away. 

Jane Coaston: Experts say these new tariffs could drive the cost of cars up by as much as $10,000. Shares of automakers, including Tesla, fell on Wednesday before the tariffs were announced. Trump also said these new auto tariffs are permanent, by the way. So to recap, the U.S. now has double-digit tariffs on foreign cars, aluminum, steel, as well as imports from China, Canada, and Mexico. And more on the way! Remember those reciprocal tariffs Trump promised earlier this month? The ones that are supposed to go into effect next week? The president said that those are most definitely happening, fun. The Supreme Court upheld requirements aimed at regulating ghost guns, a win for gun control advocates. Ghost gun parts can be bought in kits online and assembled at home, making them really hard to trace. The regulations were issued by the Biden administration and include requirements from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, such as gun components must have serial numbers, and that buyers go through background checks. In the seven to two decision Wednesday, Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote, quote, “Home hobbyists enjoy assembling them but criminals also find them attractive.” Gorsuch noted one of the gun kits, quote, “comes with all necessary components and its intended function as instrument of combat is obvious.” Really, the kit’s name says it all, Buy build shoot. Conservative justices Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas both dissented. The legal challenge was brought by gun rights groups and ghost gun vendors. A Justice Department spokesperson said the administration will continue to support and defend the Second Amendment rights of all Americans. To be clear, it was not a Second Amendment ruling. And now, some good election news, for once. 

[clip of James Malone] I’m honestly very excited obviously um and uh really really happy that all the work that we put in has uh paid off 

Jane Coaston: Democratic candidate James Malone flipped a seat in the Pennsylvania State Senate, thinning the Republican majority in the chamber. Just a reminder, there are no off years. State and local elections are happening all the time, and they have a huge impact on your community. Malone, the current mayor of East Petersburg, beat out his Republican opponent by less than one percent of the vote. He’ll go on to represent the state’s 36th district in Lancaster County. The mayor’s victory was shocking given that President Donald Trump won the district by 15 points in the 2024 election. The last time a Democrat held the seat was 1890. Malone spoke to a local NBC affiliate Wednesday about his victory. 

[clip of James Malone] On the floor, the everyday voters um are not liking what they’re seeing in the federal level. They don’t like the chaos. And you know, we want to be sure that we, as Pennsylvania, are standing up for our neighbors and are standing for our state. 

Jane Coaston: The GOP majority in the State Senate now stands at 27 to 23. In a tale as old as time, Republicans in Congress are once again threatening federal funding for national public radio and public broadcasting. You know, because Elmo is a communist and Curious George has been asking too many tough questions. The heads of NPR and PBS were on Capitol Hill Wednesday to testify in front of the new House subcommittee delivering on government efficiency or DOGE. It’s chaired by Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene. So you can imagine how this went. 

[clip of Marjorie Taylor Greene] This means that PBS is one of the founders of the trans child abuse industry, all while taking taxpayer money. Brainwashing and transing children is an issue so hated by parents across the country that it was a driving force in the landslide Republican and Trump victory in the 2024 election cycle and presidential race. 

Jane Coaston: She has clearly seen some episodes of Arthur that were not available in my area and missed the educational programming on what landslides are. The fight over federal funding for PBS and NPR has been going on for decades, all the way back to when Richard Nixon was president. And for just as long, NPR and PBS have been fighting allegations of left-wing bias. In this foul year of our Lord 2025, it was president and CEO of PBS Paula Kerger’s turn to call bullshit on these claims, but in the most public media way possible. 

[clip of Paula Kerger] There’s nothing more American than PBS. As a membership organization, our local service is at the heart of our work. Our job at PBS is to support our stations so that local stations can serve their communities. We’ve been proudly fulfilling our mission for nearly 60 years using the public airwaves and other technologies to help educate, engage, and inspire the people. 

Jane Coaston: But this time around, the threat is a little more real, because Republicans control all branches of government. Trump’s Federal Communications Commission chair has also opened investigations into both PBS and NPR. For context, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting gets about $535 million annually in federal funding to help pay for NPR and PBS stations. A lot of that money helps stations in rural parts of the country stay afloat. And it is a teeny tiny fraction of the federal government’s $6.8 trillion budget. I think this is where we break in for a pledge drive. And that’s the news. [music break] One more thing, I’m sorry, I cannot let this story go, but if you’re a normal person or the founder of Barstool Sports or even at least one Republican Senator, you know that Signalgate is bad. Here’s Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski agreeing with me. 

[clip of Senator Lisa Murkowski] I’m worried about everybody and how they have handled this Signal controversy. 

Jane Coaston: Yes, I am also worried, Senator, because top members of the Trump administration all chatting about high-level military escapades on an unencrypted app is, to me, not ideal. So it has certainly been interesting to see the many, many ways that members of this administration and its biggest supporters have been trying to spin this scandal. The first spin, as always, is actually everything is awesome. Here’s Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt explaining that we should be thrilled about this. 

[clip of Karoline Leavitt] The American people should be grateful to these individuals, and especially to President Trump, for putting together such a competent and highly qualified team who are killing terrorists that the Biden administration allowed to run wild in the Middle East. 

Jane Coaston: Girl. Come on. And not to be outdone in the, well, I can’t use the word I’m thinking about right now, but let’s go with obsequious Olympics. Here’s Fox News’ Will Cain trying to make a signal group chat containing the worst guys ever into Abraham Lincoln’s team of rivals. 

[clip of Will Cain] You and I have been told for years that President Trump surrounds himself by yes-men, lackeys. But now, through this leak and inadvertent transparency, you see a team, not just of disruptors, but of rivals, with thoughtful deliberation, with authenticity. Who they are privately or who they are publicly. 

Jane Coaston: Ok. Now, another spin effort was more specific, very, very specific. See, the title of the original Atlantic piece on SignalGate was the Trump administration accidentally texted me its war plans. And when Atlantic editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg published the text he’d seen, that article was entitled, here are the attack plans that Trump’s advisors shared on Signal. Now again, you’re probably a normal person and you’re thinking there really isn’t that big a difference between attack plans and war plans. But that’s why you’re not working for the Trump administration. Here’s Defense Secretary Hegseth defending himself on Wednesday again. 

[clip of Pete Hegseth] Nobody’s texting war plans. Well, I noticed this morning out came something that doesn’t look like war plans, and is a matter of fact, they even changed the title to attack plans because they know it’s not war plans! 

Jane Coaston: Now, a funny thing I learned on Twitter is via our guest on yesterday’s show, the Wall Street Journal’s Alex Ward. He did some reporting and found that some military officials think that attack plans, specific details about an operation are more sensitive than war plans, the full scale operation for something like the invasion of Ukraine. So arguably sharing quote, “attack plans” on a goddamn texting app is worse. And seriously, Trump officials. Do you really want to do a semantics debate with Democrats? Because you will lose every time. But then again, Hegseth reverted back to spin number one. Everything is super cool. Here he is on CNN. 

[clip of Pete Hegseth] I know exactly what I’m doing, exactly what we’re directing. 

Jane Coaston: In general, I have found that people who say, I know exactly what I’m doing, rarely do. Now, you may have noticed that the president of the United States has been absent from this spin session, but don’t worry, Trump is on top of it and definitely knows what Signal is. Here he is on Newsmax. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] What it was, we believe, is somebody that was on the line, with permission, somebody that was with Mike Waltz, worked for Mike Waltz at a lower level, had, I guess Goldberg’s number or call through the app and somehow this guy ended up on the call. 

Jane Coaston: He 100% thinks this was a phone call. So in total, this was the phone call that wasn’t a phone call about attack plans, not war plans, and the phone call that wasn’t a phone call was awesome and we should all be proud of it. As always, hooray for Donald Trump. Great. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, don’t use the passwords of top Trump administration security officials, even if you happen to find them on the internet, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how the newspaper Der Spiegel was able to find the private emails, phone numbers, and passwords of Secretary of Defense Hegseth, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, and National Security Advisor Mike Waltz just on the Internet, like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston and I know I feel way more secure knowing that the security state can’t secure its own email accounts. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fohr. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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