In This Episode
It’s time to switch it up…LITERALLY! The ladies of Imani State of Mind are going inside the mind of a person living Dissociative Identity disorder… or best known as Multiple personalities disorder.
We would love to hear from you! Please email us at AskDrImani@crooked.com with all your questions and comments!
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Imani Walker: This show is for general information and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to provide specific health care or medical advice and should not be construed as providing health care or medical advice. Please consult your physician with any questions related to your own health. [music break] Hey, y’all, welcome to Imani State of Mind. I’m Dr. Imani.
MegScoop Thomas: And I am MegScoop.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yay! So. Okay, so welcome to a brand new episode. Uh. We are officially into October.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes!
Dr. Imani Walker: So happy October. Happy fall. Um. I hope everybody I mean, all you people that are really into pumpkin spice, I hope that, you know, you all are like, you know, charged up right now. I’m not.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes girl, we happy. We happy.
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. All right. You happy. You happy. I don’t get it. I mean, I. I think pumpkin is cool, but I don’t quite understand the, you know, hysteria about pumpkin spice, but it really has nothing to do with pumpkins. It’s just the spice, right?
MegScoop Thomas: I don’t. You know what? I don’t really know. Maybe it’s my inner white woman is just like, ooh, we like this. [laugh] Either way. It’s. It’s yummy to me. And I love when Starbucks says they have pumpkin back. I’d be like, yes, and this is like every day I legit get a grande chai tea latte add pumpkin sometimes I get fancy and get it a shot of espresso in there.
Dr. Imani Walker: Eew.
MegScoop Thomas: But now they have like pumpkin with cold foam.
Dr. Imani Walker: That’s a dirty chai.
MegScoop Thomas: I know it’s a dirty chai girl.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Cause sometimes I feel a little dirty. Um.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: But other times, you know, as long as they put the pumpkin in there, now they have pumpkin cold foam. I was like, oh, they are just, [sigh] they must know I come here a lot, so I’m happy.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Oh, good. I’m a let you, you know, indulge in your pumpkin and your pumpkin cold foam and all of that. So, you know, I don’t want I don’t want to I don’t want to cramp your style. I’m not really a pumpkin spice person. I’m just kind of a regular. I like matcha in everything. I like it in lemonade.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh I do love matcha.
Dr. Imani Walker: I like it. I love matcha. Um. But it’s officially October.
MegScoop Thomas: That is my back up. Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. It’s officially October, so it’s going to start getting cool outside. So um from what I understand, it’s already kind of dipped into the fifties out in New York and stuff. Out here in L.A. We’re in the middle of a heat wave, of course. Um once again.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh yeah it’s in the fifties in Atlanta, in the good old south. We’re getting a little chilly.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I love it.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I love fall. Fall is my favorite time of year. So.
Dr. Imani Walker: I love fall. I loved fall I think more so when I lived on the East Coast, when I could see like the um.
MegScoop Thomas: The colors. The trees.
Dr. Imani Walker: You know the, the colors changing. But.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: I also read somewhere that um, you know, speaking of like before I get into current events, I guess this is a current event um that apparently there’s an expectation that the leaves aren’t going to turn, like they’re not going to be as colorful this fall. [gasp] Because. Yeah, because there’s been like a drought like all over the country. So.
MegScoop Thomas: You know what, that makes sense. That makes sense.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I feel like they tired. The leaves are tired. We are tired. Earth is ghetto. We just want to go. Okay? I’m tired. [laughing]
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Earth is tired.
Dr. Imani Walker: I know. That’s why I’m just like, if all these people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, like, if y’all want to go to Mars, like, go ahead and take all your peoples–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: With you because, so we can just replenish the earth. Like, I’m fine with that.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: I can stay right here. I’m completely fine. Y’all can go. Go to Mars. Please go to Mars. Do what you got to do. Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. It’s been honestly this week, um I’m not going to get into it too deeply because I know that with a future episode, probably maybe even the one next week, we may talk about Dahmer the uh the Dahmer series on Netflix. Did you see it?
MegScoop Thomas: Yes, I’ve seen the first few episodes.
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s a lot.
MegScoop Thomas: It is.
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s a lot. It’s a lot. It’s way more–
MegScoop Thomas: And you know what like I’ve– it what’s crazy. Like, we’ll talk about it, I’m sure. But it’s just the whole, like the racism, like the privilege.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I think that’s what was not really prevalent in any other documentary about Dahmer that I’ve ever seen.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mmm.
MegScoop Thomas: I’m just kind of like, Hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, right. I mean, not to say that, like, I saw My Friend Dahmer um kind of in preparation for watching the the series um the Dahmer series on Netflix and that show, that movie actually um, my friend Dahmer got into how he was in high school and how he was a really, you know, kind of odd kid. And in in I didn’t you know, I will readily admit I did not see the whole movie. I stopped once it kind of started to turn to, oh, well, I guess like they were a group of boys, like three boys who had befriended Dahmer. And like, I was just kind of like, I’m not I don’t know if I’m really into this aspect of it. Like, I want to know about his his childhood. I want to know from like a factual standpoint, like what he was exposed to environmentally. But I’m not really here for, you know, humanizing serial killers.
MegScoop Thomas: There you go.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um.
MegScoop Thomas: There you go. Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. I’m just I’m just not I wasn’t really here for that. This particular series on Netflix. Um. It was great. It was a lot even for me. And I don’t only say it like that because I like I was the kid who used to, you know, like poke at dead things and, you know, me and my dad would like, you know, sometimes like dissect stuff. I’m not a serial killer. I’m not into anything like that. [laughing]
MegScoop Thomas: I was like wait Imani, hold on.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah no.
MegScoop Thomas: Like is that psychopath or socio? Hmm. Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, no, I have no tendencies like that. I just really liked, you know, science stuff. Um. But yeah, it was it was the, you know, for all those people that are are just super against critical race theory like Dahmer is a study of why critical race theory is so important.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. And it it was a lot. We’re going to get into it on another episode. But I say all that to say that between watching that show and kind of just some other stuff that I was dealing with personally, not me, but like just around me, like some mental health stuff I was spent last week. Like I’m, I still feel a little spent. Like girl, I’m still walking around the house, like turning on all the lights, like Jeffrey Dahmer in that room, like knowing and I’m like Imani he fully dead I’m like uh uh he in the closet like turn on that light. Uh. But but what one the things that I did come across this past week was, you know, we’ve been we’ve been in some a dark place since 2020.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: And um.
MegScoop Thomas: For sure.
Dr. Imani Walker: This particular article was about how to find, you know, joy, small moments of joy in dark times. And some of the things that they had raised, some of the things that they brought up. I was like, oh, I do that all the time because I’m just like kooky and goofy and but it was like, yeah like, have recess with yourself. I was like, I do that every day. Or like dance around.
MegScoop Thomas: Like what do you do for your recess?
Dr. Imani Walker: I, I go hiking.
MegScoop Thomas: Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: I go hiking, like I take. I mean, I take my dog on a walk like I, you know, I play ball with my dog. Like, I just I mean, I just I just like to, not ball, like I don’t play basketball with my dog. But we play fetch and stuff. I just I just know that there’s times during the day when I’m like, all right, you know what? That’s enough. Like, fuck this. I’m going outside, and I just kind of, you know, just do me. And every morning, actually, when I get ready to go, uh work out. I don’t plan it, but I just, like, sing songs and dance around in the bathroom.
MegScoop Thomas: Aw that’s good.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like when I’m like–
MegScoop Thomas: I love dance parties. Love them.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, I just have. I’m always having an impromptu dance party, like, by myself. So I was like, Okay, then I guess I am finding joy in dark times. So. [laughing]
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: So I needed that.
MegScoop Thomas: I feel like you’ve been doing a really good job. You’ve done a really good job of that.
Dr. Imani Walker: Well, thanks. I need, I was like after that Dahmer. Listen, I was like, I just sat in a room by myself for 30 minutes and was like, I mean, I was just sitting there like, oh, my God. Like, this was so it was overwhelming. But anyway, anyway.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: We gonna deal with that later.
MegScoop Thomas: That’s why I don’t think I’m going to be able to watch the whole thing. I–
Dr. Imani Walker: You know, you should.
MegScoop Thomas: –Usually I’ll binge. I–
Dr. Imani Walker: You should.
MegScoop Thomas: It’s a lot.
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s not. It is. It’s but it’s not like he like the Ryan Murphy, spending equal amount of time on Jeffrey and then the last few episodes are about the families and the victims. So it’s so it–
MegScoop Thomas: Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Doesn’t end. Yeah, it’s not all like gore and stuff.
MegScoop Thomas: But even with that, I think I’m going to have to like pace, like I can’t binge this. I’m going to have to like–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: –maybe one episode a week because I got a–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: –I got a lot–
Dr. Imani Walker: I did.
MegScoop Thomas: –Going on mentally with these children and I need to be in a good place and I feel like I don’t want to be like–
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: So I think I’ll be taking my time with it then.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, you should. I paced myself. I was like, this is crazy. Um. Yeah, but what did you what, what did you come across this week?
MegScoop Thomas: So, you know, now that we’re staying with the theme of talking about mental health. Um. One of our favorite rappers just launched a website with mental health resources, Megan Thee Stallion, and that–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah!
MegScoop Thomas: –Was you know, she’s been talking about mental health awareness for a while, um especially since she got shot. Um.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: You know, and she some of the people have kind of turned it on her and she was like, this is like how people hurt themselves or this is how people have–
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: –Are put in a bad spot mentally because she’s like, here I am shot and y’all going to make me out to be the villain.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right?
MegScoop Thomas: How is that even possible? So, you know, people on the Internet can be mean. And and I’m glad Megan did this. She, now the website is hilarious because it’s called BadBitchesHaveBadDaysToo.com.
Dr. Imani Walker: I love that.
MegScoop Thomas: I love it, it’s hilarious and I just got to remember all the words so that you can type it correctly.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: But it’s basically a website that kind that has links to, you know, crisis hotlines, therapy resources, um therapists, especially for Black and Brown people and LGBTQ+ people. Um. It’s just a really good platform just, you know, with links to different if you’re looking for a therapist, if you just need, you know, a therapy hotline, something, it’s on there. She directs you to the right spot. So that’s pretty cool.
Dr. Imani Walker: No, this is I’m looking at the website now. It’s um. I like this. This is really cool.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, it’s just you know, it’s just kind of cause sometimes you’re like, I don’t know where to go to find help. Then go to a website like this. Click the link. There’s a ton of resources on there.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. No, this is awesome. Like, yeah. Like, there’s. There’s all these really, like, dope, like, cartoons on here.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. They have a LGBTQ psychotherapists of color directory. Like, that’s. That’s amazing.
MegScoop Thomas: Very specific.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. What I really love about this website is just that it’s really like. It’s just well done. Like, I mean, I wouldn’t expect–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –That it wouldn’t look good, but basically, you know, this is going to be a terrible segue. But just like, you know, Megan’s ankle almost got twisted when she was shot. We’re not getting it twisted. Look at that. This, this. [laugh] We’re not getting it twisted with our series. Our current series on Imani State of Mind.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh my gosh Imani.
Dr. Imani Walker: Where– Isn’t that terrible? Well, we’re not getting it twisted. Um. And we’re going to keep breaking down myths of well-known disorders. The next one up in the series, the one that we’re going to be discussing today is dissociative identity disorder, which is also known as multiple personality disorder. So I’m sure a lot of you guys listening have a lot of questions about that. Um. There’s been all kinds of books and movies written about it. So I’m just laughing because it’s it’s a really um it’s a really controversial topic in psychiatry, too. And some people believe in it. Some people don’t. But in any case, we’re going to get the show started. So if you’re loving the show, please let us know by rating the show on your favorite podcast app. And as always, we have so much to talk about, so let’s start this show. [music break] So we want to know what’s on your mind, what are you struggling with, what are you dealing with? We love giving you our professional and not so professional advice.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes, ma’am. It’s time for Ask Dr. Imani anything. And our first letter today comes from Danielle. Here is what she had to say. Dear Dr. Imani and Meg, I am having a problem with my husband’s family and kids accepting me. When I met my husband, his wife had passed away and we didn’t start dating until a year after her death. But his mom and kids have been really mean and cold towards me. We’ve been married for three years and dated for three years before we got married. I don’t understand when they’re going to let me into this family. His deceased wife’s family actually has accepted me and they’re very kind towards me. But his own mom and kids are not budging. I’m trying to have respect for their grieving process, but their grief is hurting and isolating me. For birthdays, I’m asked not to come. For holidays. They make it clear I’m not welcomed. I feel bad my husband is often trying to defend me with his children and mother, but I’m stuck on how to move on in this marriage and family. How can I respect their grief and have them respect me as my husband’s wife?
Dr. Imani Walker: Hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: Hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: Hmm. Okay, Danielle. All right. First of all, thank you for that letter. Um. It’s interesting. I’ve been reading like I read the news a lot as I’ve mentioned on this show previously, and I’ve been reading a lot of advice columns or rather, Apple News has been sending me a lot of, I guess, advice columns. Maybe it overhears me when I’m doing this podcast and it’s like you seem to be like giving advice, like, here’s some stuff to read. In any case, Danielle, I think that something that I guess I feel like I can tell you, I feel like you know me and Meg well enough. Um. But you know, your last question or the last sentence of of your question, how can I respect their grief and have them respect me as my husband’s wife? I think you are respecting their grief. I think I mean I mean, it doesn’t sound like you, you know, burst in the house, like, oh, for real. So you didn’t invite me, you know, on Thanksgiving? Well, I’m just come up in here and do whatever. Your husband’s been defending you. I think, you know, there comes a point in everybody’s life when whether you’re married or not, you have to decide what is healthy and what is best for you. It sounds like the relationship that you have with your husband is a really good one and that he’s doing his best to try to respect. It sounds like his his mom um his mom’s feelings about his deceased wife. But honestly, I feel like you may just have to accept for right now that that’s a part of the family or part of his family, that you’re just not going to be able to have a relationship with, at least not right now. You know, I don’t I don’t really know, like, how you would broach this topic with them. It might have to be your husband to be like, yo, have you gone to grief counseling like something? But I think that you are being respectful. Um. It is very clear that your husband’s family is being very disrespectful and unfortunately his kids are wrapped up in all of that. I mean, it is entirely possible to have a parent pass away and then have your other parent remarry and have a completely, like, good relationship with your with your stepparent. But I just I don’t I don’t see a way of your husband’s family respecting you at this point because they’re just very hell bent on not having you participate in their life so. What do you think, Meg?
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. I mean, it’s tough because it seems like you are you know, like Imani said, you’re being very respectful of their grief. But at the same time, you know, you do want to be a part of this family. So I will say respect is not uh given, it’s earned. And I think you need to make clear to them, hey, like I understand you all are going through stuff like I’m I want to respect your feelings and I am I want to be a part of your family and I want to do all this, and I’m I’ll do that whenever you’re ready and just leave that open, because it could take years. It could take ten, fifteen years before they finally are ready to have you in their family. But at least you did your part to tell them like, I’m available for this, I’m ready for this. Whenever you are, just let me know. That’s one, one piece of advice. The other piece of advice I would give has to do with your husband. This is his family. This is his mother and his children. And it’s up to him. Once you get married, you are one with this person. So he’s going to have to make a decision and go, okay, guys, enough is enough. You need to start treating my wife with respect because she’s been kind, nothing but kind and nice to you. If you tell her she can’t come to the birthday, I can’t either. If you tell her she can’t come to a holiday function, I can’t either. It’s my wife. So you’re basically telling me I can’t come either? And if that’s the choice you want to make, I understand. But I can’t be a part of this stuff y’all want me to be a part of. If you can’t accept her because now if she was mean or something. I mean, if you was mean, girl. Then I have to be like, sorry girl. They just not going to like you. But it seems like you’re being kind and you’re, you know, you’re wanting to be nice and respectful to them. So I think it’s your husband’s place to step up and to kind of, you know, it puts him in a weird position. But this is again, he is the one in the middle. He’s, you on one side, his kids and his mom on the other. He has to make the choice. And of course, marriage means that’s the choice. So he’s going to have to start saying, hey, guys, well cool, you know, I’ll hang with y’all another day, just let me know when me and my wife can come. We good?
Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Right. And I also think it’s really admirable that your husband hasn’t, like, cut his mom out of his life. Because I do know situations where this has occurred and the husband will just straight up, be like, you know what, if you don’t accept me and my wife, then like I’m not fucking with you basically, and–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: You know, figure it out and let me know. But until then, I’m going be with my family, you know, with the family I chose. Um. So, I mean, it’s a really unfortunate situation, Danielle. I really hope that this resolves itself sooner rather than later. So in any case, we’re going to move on to our. next letter.
MegScoop Thomas: And it comes from a listener by the name of Amber. She says, Hey, ladies. Let me get straight to it. My baby daddy and I have broken up after ten years. I actually got the courage to leave after the advice you gave one woman about her narcissistic husband. You’re welcome girl.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yay!
MegScoop Thomas: You’re welcome! [laugh] I moved me and my two girls out of the home we built and have literally had to start over. That has been mentally draining and hard to do, but I’m doing it. Here’s where the problem and anxiety come in. I found out from a mutual friend that he’s moved on after a month of being separated. And are you ready for it? He’s dating a mom at our daughter’s school. The new woman’s kid is in my oldest daughter’s class. I now have anxiety at pick up and drop off that I’m going to run into her. I thought I was over him, and I know I don’t want to be with him anymore. So I’m confused where this anxiety is coming from. I’m also angry and hurt. Should I confront the woman? Should I confront him? What can I do to ease this new anxiety?
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, Amber, first of all. Okay, Meg, we need to just give ourselves a round of applause, like brush our shoulders off, okay?
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: Give ourselves pats on the back, because Amber actually got the courage to leave her narcissistic husband, so that’s awesome. That’s great.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes. Yeah I mean that’s tough.
Dr. Imani Walker: And look, maybe he had a whole other family because Megan thinks everybody got a whole other family um who who sends in a letter. But, but that being said, um I mean, Amber, here’s the thing, right? You definitely have identified your child’s father as narcissistic. Right.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like you said, I got the courage to leave after the advice you gave one woman about her narcissistic husband. Therefore, I’m assuming that your child’s father, your baby daddy, is narcissistic. That being said, are you surprised that he’s moved on a month later? No. Like you can’t be. You can’t be surprised by that. Like, it don’t it don’t matter. Like he’s if he’s really narcissistic, he gon do what he want to do.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: He’s just going to run roughshod over everybody and everything. And he’s the most important person in his own life. So, yeah, he’s moved on after a month because he really didn’t care about you like that, because with a narcissist they don’t care about anybody but themselves.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: So with that being said, I hope that kind of sets the stage for you to accept the fact that you should. You should be angry and hurt. But you shouldn’t confront the woman.
MegScoop Thomas: No, please don’t.
Dr. Imani Walker: We don’t confront the woman. Yeah. They ain’t got nothing to do with you, like.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: That’s going to be on her as to whether she wants to remain with him after she discovers that he’s a narcissist. Um.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes girl.
Dr. Imani Walker: Should you confront him, for what? What is that going to do? He’s going to be like, you, jealous?
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: And this, that, and the third and you just want me back. Because that’s feeding into his narcissism. So don’t confront her. Don’t confront him. Um. What can you do to ease this new anxiety? Just remember that your kid’s father is a narcissistic piece of shit like [laughter] like–
MegScoop Thomas: That’s a very good reason.
Dr. Imani Walker: –For real like he don’t. Yeah, like he don’t care about nobody but himself. I mean, I do understand the anxiety of, oh, my God, I have to see this person sometimes. And I can’t really, like, you know, get my true feelings out because you got to be at your kid’s school. But it’s kind of like it kind of reminds me of like being in high school and like, you know, you might have had like a boyfriend or whatever. Um. Like, I had a boyfriend that, you know, I went to school with. And then, you know, we broke up and then he got a new girlfriend eventually. And I was all like, Oh, my God, why? Why? And I mean, you just, you know, like, you just learn to move on. Like this person. This person has moved on to the point where this person never really thought about you like that. Like, I know that you think–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –He probably thought about you like that, but he really didn’t. So–
MegScoop Thomas: And that’s the hurt. That’s the hurt piece of it.
Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. That’s the hurt piece. But you have to remember, if this person’s a narcissist, this is this is par for the course girl. Like this is this is what they do. Like.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: He probably had already moved on the next day after y’all had, you know, after y’all had split up. So, you know, just keep that in mind. Like, this is somebody who didn’t care about you like that. You just have to co-parent and just teach your kid that like, yo, yo, dad is just a certain kind of a way. Like, don’t, don’t get it twisted. And also, you know, don’t take things too seriously even if you do get hurt, because this is just–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Somebody who doesn’t have a really good sense of what matters to other people because because this person doesn’t have any empathy for other people. So.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. And I think that’s where to recognize that’s where the anxiety is coming from. Cause you you said you were confused about that. I think it’s because you thought he looked at you the way you looked at him.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: Which means he would have been sad. He would have waited. You know, probably take some time to heal before he got with somebody. That’s what you’re confused about, because he’s not that person. And it took you ten years to figure that out, that that’s why you didn’t want to be with him. So that’s where your confusion comes from, you did the right thing. You said you know, you don’t want to be with him anymore, so you did the right thing. So have faith that you did the right thing. You moved on like you were supposed to. Now, the only. Never confront the woman, it has nothing to do with her. This man is now her problem. You should be thanking her, right? Ooh, girl. Thank you so much. You got that man away. Oh, far, far away.
Dr. Imani Walker: I know.
MegScoop Thomas: Ooooh.
Dr. Imani Walker: I know.
MegScoop Thomas: He is your problem now. Right. But I will say this. You shouldn’t confront him about dating somebody else. You do need to confront him and talk to him about new partners in your lives and how they interact with your children.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yes.
MegScoop Thomas: Because that, you know, that’s very important at this point. The only thing y’all do have anything to talk about is your children. Now, if this new woman is going to be in your daughter’s lives, then you guys need to start talking about boundaries, you know, and make sure you talk to him about that when you’re not so emotional. So you may need to take some time until you get to that place of like, okay, because I don’t need you confusing this conversation with me being jealous.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: We really do need to have a conversation about like, when do we introduce new partners to our daughters? Like, on what circumstances, you know, do you get to meet the new guy I talk to? Do I get to meet the new woman you talk to? Just to kind of set the boundaries? Like, what are we what are we going to do? You do need to have that conversation.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. It’s not even about like, how dare you date my husband? How dare you date my my baby daddy? It’s more so about like, you know what? Like the relationship that we’re going to have is going to be different. But I do still get a say as far as who is in my child’s life and vice versa. That’s all.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: As far as partners. So.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. So I mean, so Amber, I think that um, I think you kind of have your answer, but we just, you know, me and Meg just kind of had to kind of suss it out a little bit. But yeah, just remember, like, this is not somebody who really cared about you like that. Like if this, if this person truly has narcissistic uh narcissism, so and you gonna hurt but for real like once it really sinks in you’re going to be like, anyway, whatever. Ugh so.
MegScoop Thomas: Right, right, right.
Dr. Imani Walker: So yeah, you’ll you’ll be good. So thank you, Amber. And thank you, Danielle, for submitting your questions. I hope that me and Meg were able to help you guys.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes. And if uh you have any other questions out there, any of our listeners you have some kind of mental health centered problem, you know what? Send us your emails. Send it to AskDrImani@Crooked.com or you can text and leave us a voicemail at 818-252-9462. Hit us up!
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, you guys. So this is our final disorder in our Don’t Get It Twisted series, okay? So we’re gonna, we’re going to have something we’re going to have another series that’s going to be just as exciting. But right now I want to get in to our deep dive topic for today, which is dissociative identity disorder, which is also known as multiple personality disorder.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes girl, I’ve been waiting for this one because, you know, I’ve been told I have multiple personalities, so.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl bye.
MegScoop Thomas: We’ll get [laughing] let’s get into it.
[AD BREAK]
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. It’s time to get into this deep dive. We are going to be talking about or rather, we are now talking about uh dissociative identity disorder, which is also known as DID. Okay. Dissociative identity disorder. And it’s also the new name for what most of us know as multiple personality disorder.
MegScoop Thomas: Now, what is that? Because, you know, when I think of that, it–
Dr. Imani Walker: So it’s–
MegScoop Thomas: –kind of to me.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: I was going to say no, it kind of to me sounds like. Almost like, I guess, uh, bipolar. Like, I know bipolar, you said was different poles. But now–
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: Whenever I thought about multiple personalities, I thought about, like, different moods. So now people think you have different personalities because one time you’re a nice person, the next day you’re not a nice person. So explain what this is.
Dr. Imani Walker: So, okay, so that actually is is a good point that you made. Um. I, too used to kind of get them confused. Um. Obviously, before I, you know, started training in psychiatry. Um. But the main thing is with multiple personality disorder, it you are like for all intents and purposes, you are like a different person. Like people who have multiple personality disorder, they have like a different like it’s somebody with a different name. They have different handwriting. They have a different voice. If you ask the person who is another personality, like they call them their alter. Um.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: If if they’re, like, under the influence, I don’t know a better way to say this, of their alter, and you ask them to draw themselves. It’s. It’s not the person that they are. So it’s it’s–
MegScoop Thomas: A totally different person.
Dr. Imani Walker: It is a different person, like a completely different person. So whereas bipolar disorder is like you, you the same person, like you know who you are. Like you are your own person. You look in the mirror, you i– you can identify who you are. Um. Multiple personality disorder is when you legit are like I’m Imani. But then, you know, when I flip, I’m going to be Taylor. And I may even be a different sex. I may even you know, I may I may even be a different age. Sometimes–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: There are alters um if the person has um multiple personality disorder and like, you know, some like one alter may be like four years old, another one may be like 80 something years old. Um.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s essentially that. It’s it’s just as sensationalized and interesting as we’ve been led to believe through the media. I remember there was some book that came out when I was like a little kid and it was about, they made it into like a TV movie. I don’t remember what it is right now, though, but it was like this woman had like 20 different personalities and she just, you know, sometimes she’d she be she’d be on one or two or three or four or the fifth one, depending upon like, you know, where she was at that day.
MegScoop Thomas: There’s a movie uh called Split by M. Night Shyamalan about–
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Uh. Yeah. The guy had, I think, like, what is it, ten or 12 personalities.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: And, you know, that basically they’re trying to like, like slay each one and get it down to just his actual personality.
Dr. Imani Walker: Just one.
MegScoop Thomas: So when I, when I see that. A couple of questions for you.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: Number one, is that like, how is that even possible that there’s different people living in your head and like this person gets to have go time, then it’s this pers– [laugh] like how does that how does that work? Like, is that real? And then the second thing is, I know I’ve heard you say this before, which is some people don’t believe in it. Some I believe–
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: –Like professionals don’t think it’s real.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: So then the question is why?
Dr. Imani Walker: Um, so that that’s a good question, but I’ll, I’ll answer the first one. Um. So dissociative identity disorder. It’s, it’s like it’s name. It’s a really severe form of dissociation. So dissociation meaning that, you ever heard people say maybe like, oh, I saw myself like I was like I was looking down at myself and I–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Saw myself, like, sleeping or in a bed or on a table or like sometimes like people will describe that when they have near-death experiences. So that, that is dissociating. Like you, you are aware of yourself, like your mind is somewhere else that is not inside your body. So dissociative identity disorder is when that happens and you basically turn into a whole different other personality. I was I was actually um I was reading something recently or I saw this show on Netflix um that was that was investigating the work of a forensic psychiatrist. Her name is Dr. Laurie Harvey, and she had uh spoken to a number of serial killers. This was kind of like early in the serial killer, like uh days when um like I think this might’ve been the late seventies or like the eighties. And she would talk to these different serial killers. And what, in her theory is that. Uh. Let’s take Ted Bundy, because she spent a lot of time discussing Ted Bundy. Her–
MegScoop Thomas: Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: –assertion is that Ted Bundy had um experienced such severe trauma, like such severe psychological trauma as a kid, that she has documented that when he, he was married, Ted Bundy was married to a woman, and he would send her letters. And so um Dr. Harvey had examined some of the letters, and some of the letters were signed like this name that I can’t remember, of course, because that, it’s super important right now. But in any case, it they were signed a name and the name was his grandfather’s name. Right. The handwriting–
MegScoop Thomas: Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Was different than Ted Bundy’s. And and it was like so Dr. Harvey was like, yo, like, who is this person? And Ted Bundy was like, that was my grandfather. So there is there is a belief like there’s definitely mounting evidence that Ted Bundy’s father is actually his grandfather, that his grandfather raped his mom.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh, wow.
Dr. Imani Walker: And so. Right. And so Ted Bundy growing up was subjected to a lot of trauma. Let’s call it what it is, torture at the hands of his grandfather. And so–
MegScoop Thomas: Ohhh.
Dr. Imani Walker: –When he would when he would go on these killing sprees, he was often drunk and he wouldn’t remember.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: So he would get like super drunk and blackout drunk and then like go commit these crimes. And people would say, like, yeah, he smelled like a lot of alcohol. Like he was clearly drinking, but he wouldn’t remember what had happened. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean that he was dissociating, but it mean– but according to Dr. Harvey, her theory is that he dissociated and one of his personalities was that he took on the personality of his grandfather when he committed these crimes. So there you know, so there’s that. Um. But to answer your other question, dissociative identity disorder nearly always occurs within the backdrop of someone enduring severe psychological trauma as a child. Like severe.
MegScoop Thomas: Mmm. Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like torture type stuff. Like real, real bad. So I’ve had, I’ve had I had one patient who I can honestly say, okay, this person had dissociative identity disorder. I saw her like in her room one day she was laying on the floor. Her voice sounded a little different. But there was also another psychiatrist there who had been treating her for longer, and she was like, Oh yeah, she’s dissociating. And then when she came to, let’s say we were asking her about it and she was like, Oh yeah, I’ve been told that when I dissociate, sometimes it’ll either be this personality or a different personality. And with multiple personality disorder, you have to have two or more personalities for the diagnosis to be made. But um that was the only time I’ve ever like. For real. For real seen it. To tell you the honest truth, I’ve heard more about it in the news and in media and pop culture than I’ve actually ever experienced. So I think that lends a reason why there are mental health professionals, psychiatrists who are like, yeah, I like I don’t believe it. Because it’s it’s super rare if you see it. Um. It’s just not something that I’ve really come across a lot. Of course, if you spoke to somebody like the woman I mentioned, the psychiatrist, Dr. Laurie Harvey, she interviewed a lot of people and a lot of serial killers. And to her, um you know, her theory is that these people were dissociating when they committed theirs there um when they went on their serial killing crime sprees. It’s but but yeah it it the person the person and we talked about this on the show before a lot of a lot of um kind of like I guess what am I trying to say? Personality issues, personality disorders especially have to deal with some sort of trauma the person experienced when they were growing up, like as a child um that was so severe enough that they had like. So in dissociative identity disorder, the person was so traumatized that they just had they just left themselves. Like they had to put their actual their actual self somewhere else and they had to develop this alter that could just endure and deal with the trauma and the pain. The problem, though, is that–
MegScoop Thomas: It’s so sad.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Since the trauma and the pain, I know. Since the trauma and the pain don’t go away. The personalities don’t go away either. Um. But obviously, with therapy, you know, you can get you can, you know, have the person express the trauma, you know, get it out, process it, work through it. And then, you know, you you would think that, you know, these personalities would start to at least their appearances in the person’s life would start to die down. But, you know, people can be triggered by stuff every day. So I don’t–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s not something that, you can treat it don’t get me wrong. But there is always the possibility that it could, you know, resurface again. So it’s it’s sad.
MegScoop Thomas: It is very sad. Like, you know, especially when you think about it, because children are the probably some of the most vulnerable people in our society. So the fact that they have to deal and endure with so much trauma and they have to become somebody else to just make it through the day, it just hurts my heart to hear that. Because–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: –You know, since you’re saying it starts when they’re children, I was watching a movie called Frankie & Alice um.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: With Halle Berry, and she plays this it’s like Seventies Go-Go dancer who had dissociative personality disorder or DID I’m sorry. And she it was so fascinating to me because what happened is basically when she was growing up, she grew up in the South, she was with a white man. He died and in a car crash. So she dealt with a lot of racism for that. But then she got pregnant and when her mom saw the baby was like half white. She killed the baby. Like.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, no.
MegScoop Thomas: So that’s when her personality split. And it’s based on a true story. Um.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: And later in life, Frankie, she she kind of has um what is it? Every job like different stuff will happen, and she just goes into a violent rage. It happens when, you know, some guy picks her up as a go go dancer and she goes home with him for casual sex. She’ll her alter ego comes out. Happened when she was, like, working at the laundry mat, at the wedding. Like, she keeps losing these jobs because she just blacks out. And so she goes to see a psychotherapist and come to find out she has two split two personalities. One is a seven year old child.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: And the other one is like a racist white woman. And the voices are different. The handwriting is different.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: For both of them, they use left hand right. Like Frankie’s like right handed. The child uses the left hand, and has perfect, like writing with the left hand. So it’s so crazy to me. I’m like, Wait, how is that even possible? Because if Frankie can’t, you know, write her name with her left hand, but the child can.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: That definitely tells you there’s just something, different part of the brain working here, right? Um.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: And so I think once she saw herself on video and she saw how the different personalities were acting, I think, you know, she started to kind of reconcile all of it. So she didn’t have the personalities as bad as, like you said. But I think, you know, the doctor told her that the personalities would always be there. It’s just a matter of managing them.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: In that movie. So it’s very interesting because I’m just like, how is that possible that you can be somebody totally different? I mean.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: I don’t know.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: You know what? What the what the southern grandma say, it’s a spirit, they got this whole different spirit honey.
Dr. Imani Walker: [laughing] You and these spirits girl. Oh, my God. I mean. Well, if you think about it, we only, what is it? We use like 10% of our brain capacity.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: So, I mean, there’s so much stuff we don’t know, you know?
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Which is which, I mean, is why I find all this stuff interesting. But, but yeah, I mean, obviously, like, listen, I’m not going to sit here and say, like, well I don’t believe it. Like, that’s stupid. You know what? You know what I just remembered about, um Herschel Walker? Um.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Yeah. So Herschel Walker was, like, beating his wife, like, beating the shit out of his wife. And, I mean, look, I’m not going to say that he, you know, whether it’s true or not or whether I believe him or not. But he had a, Herschel Walker, wrote a memoir in 2008, and he talked about being diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder. Um. And he said he developed alters to deal with stress and trauma. And he also said that his memory loss is a symptom of dissociative identity disorder. Now, here’s the thing, though. Here’s the thing, though, right? It’s so it’s very rare. It’s very, very rare. I. Herschel Walker, to me seems like a very opportunistic type of person.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: And I would not put it past him to make this claim, especially when like, how can you prove it? You know what I mean? But I also don’t want to detract from the fact that, you know, if he had really bad trauma as a kid, it’s possible. But. You know, personally, like if I were voting for the, I think it’s the gubernatorial race, right? In Georgia?
MegScoop Thomas: No, no, no. It’s uh actually it’s the–
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, Senate. Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: So if I were a voter out in Georgia, I don’t know if I necessarily would want to vote for Herschel Walker simply because, like, are you going to be in a debate and somebody’s going to say something you know like wild to you and you just going to like, you know, split? Are you going to like beat the shit out of your opponent? Like, I don’t like.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: I’m just saying, like, personally, like, I don’t, I’ll don’t really want to see all that happening.
MegScoop Thomas: I was, I was going to say as a Georgia voter, I will tell you that is exactly what I thought, because they have the ads running on TV with with a–
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, they do?
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. With the interview of his wife from back then when she was saying like he held a gun to my head, he hit me.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: He beat me. He like, she’s basically saying all these um different domestic abuse things that he did to her. And.
Dr. Imani Walker: That’s crazy.
MegScoop Thomas: Actually, this is the first time I’m hearing that he he said he had a disorder. So just so you know, that ain’t really being–
Dr. Imani Walker: Uh right?
MegScoop Thomas: –Put out there as much so.
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay.
MegScoop Thomas: I, I get it. But like at the same time, same thing. Like what, if you’re going to sit here and claim that you have DID, which may very well be the case. You also need to be telling people what you’re doing to manage that, because I don’t feel comfortable–
Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly.
MegScoop Thomas: –Making you the senator for my state and–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah!
MegScoop Thomas: –You might possibly kill somebody and put a gun to their head and then come back to and be like, I don’t, I didn’t know what that was because if anything, politics is stressful, right?
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: Very stressful.
Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly.
MegScoop Thomas: There’s a, there’s a high possibility you could become that guy again once all this stuff starts happening in politics. So, yeah, I don’t feel comfortable.
Dr. Imani Walker: No, yeah no, you got to I’m like, you need to handle that. I mean, look, there, I can’t do everything. Everybody can’t be everything to everybody else. And Herschel Walker, it sounds like if you really have some dissociative identity disorder, you need to go find something else to do.
MegScoop Thomas: Right?
Dr. Imani Walker: [?] something else to do.
MegScoop Thomas: Maybe go speak about that?
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: How that has affected your life like be a speaker?
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: But not–
Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly.
MegScoop Thomas: –a politician. Something else.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, not a politi– and also also not a politician who is, you know, a Trump loving, you know, person who’s like, ugh, all these immigrants. I’m just like you, you sound, you trash.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: You sound terrible. But that’s a that’s that’s different than you know it’s a different story but still he trash so. I’m sorry that you got multiple personalities [?] Herschel Walker like that’s messed up though but but yeah don’t be don’t be a senator. Um anyway. Look, I’m I’m a little spent talking about that, so I’m a just have to say that’s all the time we have [laughing] for our deep dive–
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Conversation today.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, let’s let’s switch gears. Let’s, let’s do our favorite part. Pop culture diagnosis. [music break]
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So let’s get right into our pop culture diagnosis for this week. Meg, please give our listeners a quick synopsis of Netflix’s true crime series, Sins of Our Mother. Because I need for us to break this show down, okay? And I need for us–
MegScoop Thomas: Ohh.
Dr. Imani Walker: To break down Lori Vallow.
MegScoop Thomas: Girl, this is, like, so confusing to me because there’s so much that happened. I– [laughter] I don’t understand. I just don’t understand how one person can get away with killing so many different people or having a hand in it, and then they’re not–
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: –Under the jail. Because I feel like as a Black person–
Dr. Imani Walker: –Say it.
MegScoop Thomas: The suspicion.
Dr. Imani Walker: Tell it.
MegScoop Thomas: The suspicion of killing one person. Would have put us under.
Dr. Imani Walker: The suspicion, right?
MegScoop Thomas: The suspicion.
Dr. Imani Walker: Thinking about killing somebody, right. Right. Thinking about it. I’m already under the jail, girl. I’m dead. I’m gone.
MegScoop Thomas: Right, right, right.
Dr. Imani Walker: RIP.
MegScoop Thomas: So.
Dr. Imani Walker: RIP to me. Right.
MegScoop Thomas: This three part, [laughing] this three part true crime show, uh it’s called Sins of Our Mother. And it follows the story of Lori Vallow. Um. And, you know, you look at her, she looks like your your WASPy mom. She’s got three kids, devoted, loving wife, you know, woman of God. But she is a killer. Okay. So.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: Right now, she’s currently waiting, awaiting trial because she’s been accused of conspiracy to commit murder and first degree murder of her fourth husband, her fifth husband’s wife, her youngest two kids. Like her brother mysteriously died. There’s a lot of people dying in this story. And I just don’t understand, like, how, how was she able to get away with it for so long? Specifically, how were you able to get away with the fact that your children were missing for like nine, ten months before they finally–
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: Finally.
Dr. Imani Walker: Do you remember that?
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: They was like, where is yo kids?
MegScoop Thomas: It was a man hunt.
Dr. Imani Walker: Hashtag, where is your kids? Where are your kids, girl?
MegScoop Thomas: It was a man hunt. And it was like her her ten year old and I forgot how old the kids were, but it was like and she said, oh, I sent them to somebody in Arizona when they lived in Idaho. And I was like, why would you send your kids there? And then the person that she said they sent them to, she was like, nope. She ain’t send them over here.
Dr. Imani Walker: Over here.
MegScoop Thomas: So it was like.
Dr. Imani Walker: Who was that?
MegScoop Thomas: Right. So at this point, as soon as there was a manhunt, like she should have been put under the jail, I don’t understand how she was able to. She went to Hawaii with her husband. Like, it was just weird. But–
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl. Okay.
MegScoop Thomas: –Nobody really, because she look like this, you know, WASPy mom who–
Dr. Imani Walker: Listen.
MegScoop Thomas: –Just couldn’t be a. Couldn’t do that possibly. Right?
Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Okay, so, let okay, let’s get into this, okay? Because so unlike Dahmer, which is also a Netflix show, this is three episodes. So I watched it like I seen that this was on Netflix and was like we we um have something you we think you might like. And I was like, What is that? I pressed play. I was like, Yes. Netflix. Yes. Okay. So I was so I started watching it. I finished it all in one night. I was like, this chick is fucking out of control. Okay, so let’s talk about Lori Vallow Daybell. Let’s get the name right. Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yes.
MegScoop Thomas: Because Vallow was her fourth husband’s name and Daybell is her fifth husband’s name and he’s currently um awaiting trial. Uh. He has a separate trial.
MegScoop Thomas: That’s wild.
Dr. Imani Walker: But um let’s get into it. Okay. So first of all, let me say y’all should have been know this by now, anybody who’s listening, but we about to get into this show. So if you’re not one for spoilers like, you know to stop listening, we about to get into it and I’m about to break–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –This down. Okay so boom, let’s start. Lori Vallow. Raised a Mormon. Okay. Mormons have a very interesting I mean, religion in and of itself is interesting. But um, you know, like it’s I mean, it’s it’s it’s people’s faith. It’s what they believe in. I do know that when it comes to Mormons, they and somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but when they die, they get their own planet, which really sounds kind of awesome. I mean, if it’s a if it’s a habitable planet? If it’s not a habitable planet, maybe that means it’s hell. [laughter] I don’t I don’t know. Maybe it’s like Mars. I don’t know. Like you can’t breathe there. Your eyes pop out your head. Like Total Recall. I don’t know. My point is, is that they get their own planet. I’m like, okay, that’s a little far left. But like, hey, you know what? That’s your religion. Do what you want to do anyway. Mormonism also is very big on family and it’s very big on like, you know, you marry who you marry. The men are allowed to have polyamorous or they they can participate in bigamy and have multiple wives. Not a not all of them. I just want to say that not all Mormons but.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: In any case, Lori grew up in this household. I think they had like a gang of kids because Mormons usually will have a lot of kids. And she ends up marrying this guy, because she got she gets pregnant and she marries this guy like right out of high school. And that so that her first husband, they showed in the show was beating her. She leaves him. They they have a son. She takes her son. She marries another dude. This dude beats her ass. Okay, so now we have. She’s on her second husband and she leaves, she takes her son, who’s now, I believe, three, and leaves the second husband. The third husband. Now, here we go. So Lori Vallow marries her third husband. His name was Joe. His name is Joe Ryan. After a quick courtship, I just want for everybody and Meg, you too to remember, it was a quick courtship because we’re talking about mental illness. We’re talking about someone potentially doing something very impulsive. Okay. So it’s a very quick courtship. She marries this guy. This guy ends up physically and sexually abusing Colby, her son, who’s now eight years old. All right.
MegScoop Thomas: Mmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: So she’s like, all right. So Lori says and I’m quoting, “I was going to murder him”. And she said instead she turned her life to the temple, meaning she turned her life, you know, back to Mormonism and God. Her fourth husband. Now, here’s the thing. Lori has a fourth husband. His name is Charles Vallow. Okay. Charles Vallow was like an awesome stepparent. Charles Charles Vallow came into the marriage with two older sons. Uh. Lori, at this point um had had two kids, a son and a daughter. And during the course of this relationship with Charles Vallow, her fourth husband, they end up adopting an autistic child. Um. This would be her husband’s nephew?
MegScoop Thomas: Nephew, I think.
Dr. Imani Walker: Nephew, right. Okay. So now she got, like three kids in the house. Okay. During this time, Lori starts to exhibit some really interesting behavior. Um. So we know that she has a history of impulsivity. The show opens up with her fourth husband, Charles, like calling the police like, yo, my wife and my kids are gone. I don’t know where they are. Um. The house is locked. My car is gone. I don’t know what’s happening. And also, I filed, I have this this um this form, this order that says that Lori, my wife, is is set to have an emergency psychiatric evaluation. Okay. So what you were saying, Megan, about the racism aspect. Her sister in law actually spoke to that during the show, too. Do you remember when like it was this white lady as she was like and the funny part is because of, you know, she how she looks, she’s a white woman. She’s, you know, like she’s cute. She’s flirting. She was flirting with the police.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: The police actually said to her this was after this whole incident with her husband having called the police because she took the kids and took his truck. The police, it’s these two, these two white policemen, they were like, well, your husband did tell us that there is an order for you to get an emergency psychiatric evaluation. But here’s the thing. We’re not going to tell you to not answer the door, but you could also just you could always just not answer the door. And I was like what are you talking about.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: I was like, are you? I’m like, you’re you’re a police officer and you’re telling this woman how to evade the law. That’s what we’re doing?
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. Bet. So I knew I was like, here we go. Just like with Jeffrey Dahmer. Let me calm down and stop screaming. Just like with Jeffrey Dahmer. There this aspect of racism that is inherent in our laws and legal system was at play with Lori Vallow Daybell. Okay, so.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: At that same, I don’t know if you remember this, Meg, but at during that same interview with the cops, she was like, Well, yeah, I just really want to she’s talking really fast. She’s like, yeah, I just really want to get back to my house because because I haven’t slept in three days.
MegScoop Thomas: Mmmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: So you got pressured speech. You’re impulsive. You haven’t slept in three days. Okay, so I’m just–
MegScoop Thomas: Hold on this is, don’t tell me don’t tell me don’t tell me. This is schizophrenia?
Dr. Imani Walker: Nope. Close.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh, bipolar.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yup. Yeah. She’s bipolar.
MegScoop Thomas: Yay! Okay, I’m getting better.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I’m getting better.
Dr. Imani Walker: She’s bipolar. Now a later episode. And it might have been right around this time, like maybe the second episode because everything got wide got split wide open the second episode, Lori was saying like she got she got very religious, but it wasn’t just Mormonism. Like it was a specif– it was a specific kind of Mormonism where like–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah it’s a, a sect–
Dr. Imani Walker: They were having like, right. Like hallucinations weren’t were encouraged and delusions were encouraged. And this man, uh Daybell, via her, her fifth husband. Let me see what his name was.
MegScoop Thomas: Chad Daybell.
Dr. Imani Walker: Chad Daybell was this man who had kind of was Mormon, but like the Mormons didn’t necessarily recognize this particular like sect of Mormonism that he was promoting.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. He he was convinced that the that um Armageddon was going to be on a specific day and it was going to happen like in Iowa or Idaho. I was like, I don’t I don’t know about Idaho or Iowa, but I mean, what do I know? Anyway, long story short, her, Lori and Chad conspire to kill their spouses.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: So Chad kills his wife, Lori kills Charles, or I’m sorry, has Charles set up to be shot by her brother. But then–
MegScoop Thomas: Yup.
Dr. Imani Walker: –How wild was it that Lori’s brother just had a heart attack? He just up and died.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: I was like–
MegScoop Thomas: Yup and–
Dr. Imani Walker: Oooh, I was like, Oh, my God. Lori killed him. She was killing everybody. I was like Lori killing everybody you guys like wow.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah and his wife even–
Dr. Imani Walker: Like lock your doors.
MegScoop Thomas: His wife even said that her that the brother or her husband, which is Lori’s brother, had said to her, like, I’m being the fall guy, I can see they’re going to make me the fall guy, and then he mysteriously dies. But the funny part of this whole story is that he’s the only one that the cops are still saying is natural causes. So I don’t know how they killing people because all these people dying, quote unquote, “of natural causes.”
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: I’m like what kind of method did y’all use to kill uh Chad Daybell’s wife? And of course, like, I think the husband, he was shot, right? Or yeah. And then you know.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Charles.
MegScoop Thomas: And then the brother, like he, natural causes too? Like, what are you all doing to kill these people of natural causes? What is it? Is that a herb? What y’all doing to these people?
Dr. Imani Walker: I don’t, the mom said. So Lori’s mom in the documentary said that, well, you know, that makes sense. Like it, you know, hypertension and heart attacks run in our family. So I was like, okay, all right. All I’m saying is I was like, that seemed like an act of God. Like I was like, you know what? Y’all being way too raggedy and messy in these streets, you got to go.
MegScoop Thomas: Right, right.
Dr. Imani Walker: So in any case, her brother’s dead. So then, okay, so here’s the wild. Okay? As if we haven’t gotten to the wildest part of all the wildest shit of all, her kids go missing for months!
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Months!
MegScoop Thomas: Her 17 year old and then the seven year old, they adopted. Nephew.
Dr. Imani Walker: And her dumb ass husband. Her new husband, Chad, leaves her a voicemail talking about, um well, you know, there was a um there was a raccoon on the property. So, you know, I just I killed it and I put it in the pet cemetery on the property on at their new house. Girl that was they kids. That was that was her kids.
MegScoop Thomas: Not the pet cemetary though.
Dr. Imani Walker: So they killed them they– Yeah. They killed the autistic boy first. He was youngest and the older girl who was a teenager, they killed her like like a month apart. So. [sigh] Moving on to Lori. I had mentioned a little while ago that Lori. Lori actually at one point had said that, so she got really, really religious. The son said that she was putting up all these pictures of like temples like around the house, like he was like, yeah it just started getting like really religious in the house. So she was hyper religious. That’s another symptom of bipolar disorder. And that she said she was like, yeah, I wake up multiple times at night because angels are talking to me.
MegScoop Thomas: Mmm. She had delusions.
Dr. Imani Walker: So, yeah, so interrupted sleep is a symptom of bipolar disorder. And obviously hallucinations and or delusions are symptoms of bipolar disorder. So Lori Vallow has bipolar disorder with psychotic features. Um. I’m very certain of it. Um. I read some stuff online that that confirmed that. Um. She. Huhhh. She was, um, she she was found to be incompetent to stand trial, so she had to be treated psychiatrically. And so now she has been found competent. So her trial, I believe, is next year? Her her trial’s next year. But. Girl. I was just like, I can not with this. Like, I can’t.
MegScoop Thomas: This is–
Dr. Imani Walker: Like, this is–
MegScoop Thomas: How many people had to die before–
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: –the investigators were like, you know what? We should probably look at these two people and bring them in.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: It was months! Months those kids–
Dr. Imani Walker: It was months.
MegScoop Thomas: –Were gone.
Dr. Imani Walker: It was months. But I do want to just commend whoever produced this series, because the thing that was so fascinating was that they were interviewing friends and family, you know, of Lori and, you know, I guess Chad or her new husband. Um. What was really interesting was that a lot of the footage they used were like of dash cams, um body cams. They had 911 calls. They had interviews.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like video interviews from when she was interviewed by police. It was it was really it was really interesting to see how if you piece everything together, it all makes sense.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: So I really I really like, like my, you know, fact finding detail. Part of me really, really liked that part of the show. But Lori Vallow girl I hope you on the right meds because you–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –out, you out here killing way too many people. I just it was it was really, really sad.
MegScoop Thomas: Did they ever say that she was diagnosed with that? Did they ever?
Dr. Imani Walker: On the show?
MegScoop Thomas: Cause you know her husband said, yeah. Because, you know, her husband that, the fourth husband that she killed, um said that she had the emergency psych eval?
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: So I’m wondering if she ever went and did it.
Dr. Imani Walker: No, she didn’t go.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh, ever mmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: I don’t think. No, I don’t. No. I don’t think I don’t think I think she I mean, she finally got one when she got arrested, but–
MegScoop Thomas: Well, that’s what I’m saying, I wonder if they finally said oh yes–
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, wait, no, you’re right. They did. And they let her go.
MegScoop Thomas: Ohhh.
Dr. Imani Walker: They did, they did and they let her go.
MegScoop Thomas: I don’t remember that.
Dr. Imani Walker: But I think yeah, I think that um, you know, I mean, unfortunately, I’m not going to blame the person who evaluated her. I mean, look, I have, may have said this on the show before, but when I used to have to go to court, like patients can keep it together.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like especially if they know, like this is this is like basically determining my freedom to, like, go out and just keep doing what I was doing and acting wild in the street. They’re like, Oh, yeah, no, I’m fine. Everything’s fine. No, I do not hallucinate that it. No, I’ve never hear voices. In fact, half my patients that I speak to, even when I see them talking to themselves, like when we’re like meeting. I’m like do you hear voices? No. I’m like, all right, so you do. And that’s fine. So um. [laugh] In any case.
MegScoop Thomas: Like you say like, you know, I see you talking to someone like who are you talking to?
Dr. Imani Walker: Sometimes. Sometimes.
MegScoop Thomas: And what do they say?
Dr. Imani Walker: They’re like, no, I think like, they’ll they’ll actually they’ll say like, oh, no. I was just I was laughing at a joke that that that um that was in my head. Like, they always have excuses and I’m like, I just seen you be like, Nmm Nmm Nmm Nmm Nmm. And I’m like.
MegScoop Thomas: What, why? [?]
Dr. Imani Walker: This one patient. This one patient. I’m like, Who are you talking to? Huh? Who are you talking to? Oh, nothing. I there was just something. I just thought about something real funny. I was like, did you, was it that voice? And he like. And so. And what at one point one time he was like, all right, you got me. I was like, yeah, I got you. [laughter] I’ve known you for years.
MegScoop Thomas: I’ve seen you talking before.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like get out of my face. I was like, you on medication for that. Please stop playing with me. Um. So. So, yeah, they’ll they’ll but they’re really good at coming up with, you know, because it’s it’s it’s just it’s a break from reality. So they’re just like, well.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: I’m, was telling a joke. Or I heard a joke or I thought of something. So. Yeah. But did you, do you remember seeing Lori in the courtroom? And she was all she was all, like, done up and her makeup was done.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: And her hair was done.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: And she was like, Yeah, okay, fine. And whatever. And I was like Lori.
MegScoop Thomas: I know because it’s like, like that’s a and that’s why I was like, it just sucks because she did all this stuff.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: And she may not get the most severe sentence that she should get. Because I feel like sometimes when you appear a certain way, especially when you have color on your side. Right?
Dr. Imani Walker: Mmm.
MegScoop Thomas: Then people tend to–
Dr. Imani Walker: Or lack thereof.
MegScoop Thomas: Right, there you go. [laughing] That people tend to uh not see you as bad as what you really are. Right?
Dr. Imani Walker: Mmm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: Like when your skin is not weaponized, it doesn’t really like ahh like she probably, she didn’t. She’s not as bad. Maybe we’ll give her parole. You know what I’m saying?
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, honestly, she’s really sick, so I really–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Do hope that she, you know, gets the psychiatric help that she needs.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Even if she does, she should not be released back into the community because. [laugh] No. Okay. I’m like, you killed everybody around you.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Everybody. So it was just really sad. Like her son, he was, like they they played some of the conversations between her and her son. And, you know, he was like, how could you do this? And and that’s kind of what I meant on a previous episode when I was like, you can’t really argue with somebody who’s delusional. Like she was like, what do you mean? I didn’t do that?
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s like, Girl, what you? Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Where is your kids?
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: So anyway, Lori, you got bipolar disorder with psychotic features. I’m glad that you are locked away. Um. I hope you find the help that you need because you you did a whole a whole hell of a lot.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: Even killed your kids girl. Ugh.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Anyway. Anyway, what a fun show. What a like what a deep show.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. But anyway, that’s it. That’s it for pop culture diagnosis. That was great. We’re going to have another fun character to analyze next week, per usual.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: So if you guys have any suggestions for fictional characters out there, you want me to diagnose. And even if they’re not fictional and they’re like, you know, part of a documentary like the one we just did, um hit me up on Twitter at @doctor_imani and make sure you hit Megan up on Instagram at @MegScoop and email the show at AskDrImaniAnything@Crooked.com. Oooh new email. And again, if you’re enjoying the show, don’t forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast apps. Thank you so much once again for listening to Imani State of Mind. Thank you, Meg, for co-hosting.
MegScoop Thomas: No problem.
Dr. Imani Walker: And of course, and we’ll be back for an all new episode next week. [music break] This is a Crooked Media production. Our executive producer is Sandy Girard. Our producer is Leslie Martin. Music from Vasilis Fotopoulos, edited by Veronica Simonetti and special thanks to Brandon Williams, Gabi Leverette, Mellani Johnson and Matt DeGroot for promotional support.
