Chris Hayes, host of MSNBC’s All in with Chris Hayes, sits down with Jon to talk about the ways the internet has reshaped what we can hear online, creating an era of mass fame. Pulling from his New Yorker essay “On the Internet, We’re Always Famous,” Chris explains his distinction between attention and recognition and makes the case that this new era isn’t just bad for our society, it’s bad for our souls.

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.