Yellowjackets S2 Finale | Crooked Media
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June 07, 2023
X-Ray Vision
Yellowjackets S2 Finale

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight eat a massive heart! In the Airlock (1:03) Jason and Rosie dive deep (deeep) into the season 2 finale of Yellowjackets, pondering the supernatural, the edible, and the ethical. Then in Nerd Out (47:31) a theory from a listener on Moff Gideon’s mustache.


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Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it? If you’re sending a theory, feel free to send only a summary of your theory (no audio needed) for Jason and Rosie to react to on air.


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Jason Concepcion Warning This podcast contains spoilers for the Season two finale of Yellowjackets and some spoilers for the finale of season three of The Mandalorian in the Nerd Out. Be warned. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion.


Rosie Knight And I’m Rosie Knight.


Jason Concepcion And welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked Media podcast. We dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.


Rosie Knight In this episode, in the Airlock, you’ve wanted it, so we’re doing it. We are doing the Yellowjackets Season two finale. We’re going to break down all the wildest things that happened, and there were a lot of them. There are a lot of them.


Jason Concepcion It’s bananas, folks. It’s insane.


Rosie Knight In Nerd Out, Leigh offers the Moff Gideon theory from the recent finale of The Mandalorian.


Jason Concepcion Coming up, the Yellowjackets Season two finale.


Rosie Knight We’re stepping out of The Airlock and into the frosty wilderness of the Yellowjackets season two Episode nine, which is also the season finale. Episode nine, Storytelling, directed by Karyn Kusama. She came back I icon. I love Karyn Kusama, Jennifer’s Body, The Invitation. She also directed the pilot and it was written by Ameni Rozsa. Now the finale of Yellowjackets season two finds the survivors in the present planning a new sacrifice and the survivors in the past dealing with the fallout of Javi’s death slash murder. And over the course of the episode, a ton of very wild stuff happens. So we’re just going to break it down. Piece by wild piece. Jason, first of all, how did the finale work for you?


Jason Concepcion It was very insane. I thought you could have combined season one and two and made one really crazy season of television.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion The Adam death-murder storyline just took up way too much meat space in this season, and ultimately, I feel like we didn’t need it because we’ve ended up in a place and we get there in the most insane way where basically that chapter is closed.


Rosie Knight It’s the Walking Dead issue. We did a lot of extreme stuff to get to a place where it doesn’t matter. We ended up essentially where we kind of began at the beginning of season two, which is nobody knows and it doesn’t matter. So I agree with you. I think. R.I.P. to Adam.


Jason Concepcion R.I.P. to Adam.


Rosie Knight Loved Adam. Seemed like a really cute guy. Like, sorry he got chopped up. And I love the domestic drama between Jeff and Shauna.


Jason Concepcion Jeff is going through it, man.


Rosie Knight And Callie’s been a fun addition. But I agree. Absolutely. I would say, like, ridiculous, Like, the finale was totally wild. Like, ridiculous to me is not a negative thing. It’s complimentary. I love wild stuff happens. I would agree. I think the Adam Martin murder, in hindsight, that plot line took up too much time.


Jason Concepcion We could have sown that whole thing up in like three episodes.


Rosie Knight I also think, look, people get murdered all the time. And you know what? It doesn’t always get solved. I’m just saying, like, that could have been a back burner plotline where we could have focused a little bit more time on the survivors.


Jason Concepcion I think in small town New Jersey, you got to solve this random murder of this kind of working artist. And I think Kevin was like, This is my path to promotion. This is my path to success. It involves people that I kind of know and have a relationship with already. I got to solve this fucking crime. In fact, I have to solve it so badly that I’m going to get one of my colleagues to seduce a teenager, and that’s how I’m going to do it. Like that’s how much he wanted to solve this murder.


Rosie Knight That was absolutely illegal. I’m just saying, look, I know that maybe there are not many people around to hold the police accountable if they’re doing illegal things. But I feel like Kevin was much too casual on that. So I agree with you. Him and M. Saracousa were a nightmare team who saw, you know, Adam Martin’s death so that they could, you know, climb up the ladder of policing. Well, let’s see how that worked out for them in this finale episode.


Jason Concepcion I can’t wait to talk about it.


Rosie Knight Okay. So in the nineties we begin. It’s the fallout of Javi’s death. Everyone’s upset. Nobody wants to be in Javi’s body, but they’re all going to do it anyway.


Jason Concepcion They have to do it.


Rosie Knight That’s how it is in the wilderness, baby. The wilderness chose. And the first wild moment we have to talk about. So Shauna goes out, she chops up Javi’s body like she’s been studying at butchery school. She’s bringing that, and it looks delectable. How did she learn this?


Jason Concepcion Also, that is like, hard fucking work at one point. And this may be laugh out loud. You see Javi’s heart, which has been extracted from his chest cavity.


Rosie Knight Whoa.


Jason Concepcion And it looks pristine and perfect and maybe a little big. Like, I think the upside for Javi’s tragic death and later cannibalistic ritual devourment of his flesh, is that when you see that heart, I’m thinking maybe Javi had some kind of heart disease undiagnosed.


Rosie Knight Maybe that was an enlarged heart going on. And this is a mercy.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, at that age to have an enlarged heart. And I think maybe, just maybe, this was the better way for Javi to go.


Rosie Knight Yeah, he’s just freezing in an ice pond as all your friends watch, you know, and then getting eaten.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, drifting off to sleep, you know, as you kind of sink to the bottom of the lake, it’d be better than dropping dead, like in the middle of eating Doritos or something because of your undiagnosed enlarged heart.


Rosie Knight His heart was so big.


Jason Concepcion It was huge. You know, like when they crack open your chest cavity, when they’re doing open heart surgery, that takes like.


Rosie Knight They need a saw.


Jason Concepcion Bolt cutters and fucking saws and shit and, like, huge jacks and clamps and stuff. How did she do it?


Rosie Knight Prompt one: is Shauna supernatural? Oh no, that’s Market Moves. But like, I want to know that. Also, how did Shauna to get so good at chopping up a body? Because I swear she’s only done it to a couple of things in the woods. So what’s going on there?


Jason Concepcion I think she just has a passion for it. She has a real, real passion for dissecting human bodies.


Rosie Knight As we saw that. She was very good at it. We saw the horrible images of Adam Martin’s body. She’s kept up with that talent. So the first kind of like WTF moment, Travis shows his subservience to the new regime and his acceptance of the fact Javi’s died after being outside for a couple of hours crying. He just yams the heart.


Jason Concepcion He just yams it all down.


Rosie Knight He just takes a big bite out of it. Seems unhealthy. Are you going to get sick? I don’t think you can just eat a raw human heart.


Jason Concepcion Well, it was cooked, right?


Rosie Knight He ate a bite of it raw before they cooked it.


Jason Concepcion God damn. That is just so savage. I couldn’t believe that he was just holding his brother’s heart like that. Like what?


Rosie Knight He’s disassociated. He’s on a Coach Ben path. There’s no way you can survive.


Jason Concepcion If I’m going to eat, people like I have to. It’s like, you know, the plane is crash, We’re in the woods, and we got to do it. Some people have died. Maybe not my brother, but, like, we got to do it. I’m starting with the bits that look like meat that you would get any other place. Give me some chunks, like some kind of fillet of butt or thigh. I’m not starting with an organ, and I’m certainly not starting with a recognizable organ like the heart.


Rosie Knight Exactly. I’m saying as well, Shauna, She butchered those into, like, nicely steaks. Yeah, she filet Javi and made him look edible. So, yeah, that was wild. They cooked him up. They eat him. One of the big reveals from the finale is like, Lottie is not really happy about Javi’s death. She feels like Misty took her words out of context. She was saying, if I die because gonna beat the shit out of me, you guys can eat me. But she’s like, Misty. I didn’t tell you to go and kill a child. And he’s like, Shut the fuck up and go downstairs and eat that child. So Lottiemakes a choice that she is going to anoint the next leader of the group, which, if you remember season one, we were all calling her the Antler Queen. Is that who did figure that you see with the with the antlers. And in a very shocking twist, she chooses Natalie.


Jason Concepcion I got to tell you, Lottie, I don’t know which way she’s coming or go in any given time. I thought she would love this. Here we are. We got it. We got a life. Someone has died. The wilderness unambiguously chose Javi after keeping him alive. You could argue. I think someone should have. Not only did the wilderness choose him, the wilderness kept him alive for all these weeks and months, specifically to choose him at this particular time to die for us.


Rosie Knight So we could eat him.


Jason Concepcion Why are you losing your nerve about this, Lottie?


Rosie Knight Jason’s like, I have been there for months convincing myself I have to eat a human and now I’m into it. And a human smells delicious. You’re like, I’m not into it. Like, what the fuck? And now you change your mind. I proposed this. No, it did just get, like, severe head trauma from Shauna. So maybe she’s been, like, kicked out of whatever kind of delusional state she was in, and she’s had a little bit of, you know, a little bit of brain injury, traumatic brain injury. I’ve had them in my life. They can change how you feel. And maybe that like she was feeling a little bit guilty. She was feeling a little bit bad. You know, her face is looking very healed.


Jason Concepcion She’s also in some form or fashion, neurodivergent and not taking her medicine all of this time. Plus the head injury, which I’ve been concussed as well. And it does make you certainly irritable and feel different. And so I’m guessing that that is part of it. I think that’s a good call.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I mean, I’m very interested in I feel like whenever season three comes out, I hope we get to talk a little bit about this with Nathalie, too, but I hope we get to know a bit more about Lottie because the rest of the girls, I feel like there is a certain amount of inner personal connection or back story that you get, but with Lottie, we don’t really know much. Outside of her struggles with her mental health. Her family sucks and they’re rich, but we don’t really know who she had a crush on or whether she even feels that way about people or what kind of day to day life was like that made her a teenager. She’s kind of more of this supernatural, kind of morally gray entity, and I would like to know more about her as a person.


Jason Concepcion I feel the exact same way. I think that this is an issue for all of our cast. I found myself thinking not to jump ahead, but after we lose Natalie in the present, I was like, Man, we don’t know anything about Natalie. We know that she’s struggle with addiction issues and that she also had a really fucked up family life. And we know, you know, that she fucked in the cabin somewhere, but other than that, we don’t know much. And I was really sad when we lose her because I’m like, Ben, I feel like I was just getting to know her. I don’t know enough about her.


Rosie Knight You’re absolutely right.


Jason Concepcion I think you could say all of them are that way.


Rosie Knight Yeah. This is just sparked something in my head that I was thinking a lot about, something the first season did so well that I think made us feel like we were getting to know them. It had flashbacks, a la Lost, right? Not whole episodes like Lost, but like that’s how we know about Natalie’s dad and how he accidentally killed himself. We didn’t really get any of that. We didn’t get anything about the pre crash life apart from Coach Ben. And some of that was kind of it was unclear whether that was imagined or real memories. I think that a little bit more of the time could have been diverted to those aspects and learning more about the girls and their lives than, you know, wondering about what happened out of mind. We know dramatic irony, baby. We know he’s dead. So, like, I would have liked to see that because I think you’re right. And I think that Lottie and Natalie, for me, feel like the characters I would have liked to know more about the most out of the kind of hierarchy. But yeah, Natalie gets chosen to be the the queen. Now, I will say the wonderful Sophie Thatcher who plays Natalie, who I think is so brilliant. She did confirm in a Hollywood Reporter article, she is the Antler Queen now. I do not believe that this is a final antler queen. Lottie anoints her and says, you’re the leader. And all the girls kind of go up and vow themselves to her with kind of boughs. And it’s quite sincere at the beginning. And then a key left has a little kind of funny curtsy and it becomes a little bit more fun. But you can see Natalie is kind of getting drunk on being worshiped and being put on a pedestal for the first time in her life because she’s always kind of been an outsider. So I’m very interested in this because I feel like Natalie was the most logical faction in the 90 survivors, and I feel like killing having to choose Javi over herself was like very heartbreaking, and she felt like she actually cared about it. So I don’t know how far she’s going to go into the life of the cannibals.


Jason Concepcion Here’s the upside for me with this. I think from this we can kind of intuit that there will be other antler queens, right?


Rosie Knight Yes, I totally agree.


Jason Concepcion Here’s the good news. This kind of patchwork society that has created itself in the woods has figured out one of the most complex problems in governance, which is how do you pass power? They figured it out. They’ve made the Antler Queen some sort of title that can be passed from person to person with very little murdering. Yeah, one person gets murdered and just one every time. Not that bad if you look at it societally.


Rosie Knight Not that bad for just one murder to happen with the passing of power. If you look at history, usually at least five murders.


Jason Concepcion And then wars and all that stuff. Later, they figured it out where you just you kill and eat one person, and then you pass the title and that’s it.


Rosie Knight If you guys remember the original version of the sacrifice we saw last episode was, you know, Natalie bought the Queen of Hearts card, and that was the card that they would choose to sacrifice someone. But obviously now Natalie has become the antler queen, so that takes on a different kind of meaning, especially when, if you remember, Javi pulled a king cod, I believe it was a black king. God, I can’t remember exactly which one. But before Natalie dies in the present, that is the cod she pulls. So I think that we can assume that from now the Queen of Hearts cod is more going to be about the queen and who is in charge of those decisions. And the king cards will be the ones where we see the people become sacrifices also. I do wonder if Natalie’s route of being the antler queen is going to be let’s jerky Javi, let’s put some of that meat away. Let’s just try and survive without doing any of that. And then when they run out of meat, she’ll be overthrown or she’ll pass the power to someone else.


Jason Concepcion X-ray Vision will be back.


Speaker 3 <AD>


Jason Concepcion And we’re back. This whole sequence really made me feel pretty strongly about our theory that there is no supernatural shit going on. This is just the kind of shared delusion brought on by starvation, by underlying mental illness, with no medications. By being trapped in this.


Rosie Knight Trauma.


Jason Concepcion Trauma, by being trapped in this very extreme environment all together and being dosed regularly with hallucinogenic drugs. So I think that this is just like a kind of mass delusion. That said, do they remember this?


Rosie Knight This is the biggest thing.


Jason Concepcion Do they remember that event?


Rosie Knight I think that they remember from what we see in the present. They remember the at times they sacrificed people to appease the wilderness. But we get a really interesting line that comes up in the present, which we’ll get to in a minute. But where Lottie adult Lottie says there’s no it it’s just us.


Jason Concepcion Right.


Rosie Knight It was always just us. Oh, Shauna says that. And then Lottie says, Does it matter? What’s the difference? And that is the same. So this episode argues, I think, that the wilderness and appeasing the wilderness was essentially a story that they told, Right. So that they didn’t feel guilty about eating people. Right. I love that you brought up the idea of this shared delusion, because I think something they do really well when they shoot Sophie Thatcher is she’s sitting there and everyone’s kind of bowing to there’s this almost like religious fervor in her eyes that comes over her. Like it feels like they are lost in this struggle to survive.


Jason Concepcion When Lottie said, What’s the difference? I wanted to be like, Babe, there’s a tremendous difference. It is such an incredibly vast difference. The distance from its us to it’s something other than us is so huge because like you all are killing and eating people.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And you’re claiming that you’re being forced to do it by a malevolent spirit, but actually you. That’s the difference between culpability and complicity. The difference in murder and manslaughter, probably even though the statute of limitations is long gone.


Jason Concepcion There’s a huge difference, Lottie.


Rosie Knight Well, I’m glad we’re going to get to that in a minute as well, because I want to talk about the whole situation that Camp Green Pine, because these people need to go to therapy every single one. But okay, so finally we talk about that great shot where Sophie Thatcher is there and she’s Natalie’s like kind of taking in all this new passion and the love that her followers now have for realizing her power and through the window, Coach Ben sees herr. Now, Coach Ben had already, you know, said to Natalie, Hey, I found Javi’s secret magical tree where he survived. How about you come with me like we can be the cool kids who don’t eat people and we can just survive there throughout the winter. And Natalie was like, eh, sorry I killed Javi, so can’t do that. But you go off and do it. So then, and this is getting to the end of the episode because this one skips between so much. We’re going to do the past timeline first and then the present timeline.


Jason Concepcion It’s good that we’re skipping because it’s just like the show. We should, in fact just continue to skip from timeline to timeline.


Rosie Knight Yeah. So, Coach Ben, in a shocking moment, we can assume it’s him. I will say allegedly, because we don’t see him do it.


Jason Concepcion Right.


Rosie Knight But the girls wake up as the episode comes to a close in the nineties and the cabin is on fire.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Like it is like doused with oil fire. Like this thing is burning in the snowy wilderness. And the implication, we saw Ben previously with a box of matches and some firewood, so we can assume he burned down the cabin.


Jason Concepcion I’m putting it right on, Ben.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I’m putting on him. I look, I’m going to say allegedly, you , but it was Ben. Yeah, sorry, it was Ben. So we end the season in the past with them basically being in the true wilderness. Like, if they would do him wild shit to survive when they had a shelter and a cabin, imagine what they’re going to go up to now. They have to live outside in the snow. It’s not looking good for anyone. Ben, that was really dumb. Move. Terrible choice.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, I guess this is another one of those where I’m just like, Why do this? I guess because you’re just sick of everything. And here they are. They’re right to eat another kid, and you’ve got a place to live now. But, like, you know, you can stay in the stump, I guess, like, for, you know, like, personally, you can stay on the stump.


Rosie Knight We’d been saying, like, we thought maybe it was like a you know, in the ye old times they would essentially make like store cupboards underground in like the roofs of trees. And I wonder if he found something like that. So he’s feeling pretty good about himself and his chances to survive. I will say, I do wonder, I think this is a stupid idea because obviously they were all able to get out. He did not barricade the door well enough and now they’re going to eat you. Absolutely. No question you’ll get any and.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Now they’re going to find you and they’re going to eat you.


Rosie Knight You told Natalie about the tree, so she’s going to know where to look for you. You have created a vengeful group of teenage girls who are going to eat you. But I wonder if Ben’s self-justification for it is something along the lines of like, they’re all going to kill each other anyway. So this is better. Like just kill them all and that they die in the night and they die a horrible, fiery death. But at least that’s better than them, you know, going around just like killing each other and eating each other for the next six months.


Jason Concepcion I guess that was probably the thought. But then you got to barricade the door, my guy, you can’t let him get out.


Rosie Knight I’m saying, like, you shouldn’t be nailing some hammer and nails over the windows. You can’t let them get out. You just created something terrible for yourself.


Jason Concepcion Just sneak off and stay in the tree. If there are indeed stores somewhere in that tree, we saw that Javi was surviving on lots of meat. There is bones of things in there. If there is an access in that stump to food, then just fucking stay there. They’re not going to. Maybe they’ll find it. Maybe they won’t. But like, what a move.


Rosie Knight You didn’t need to do that.


Jason Concepcion Nobody is thinking straight out here in the wilderness.


Rosie Knight Nobody Is that could be where the poll is. Yellowjackets seanson  two. No one’s thinking straight. Jason Concepcion, X-ray Vision. Yeah, that’s like, on the poster.


Jason Concepcion In the past or in the future?


Rosie Knight Oh, yeah. Well, let’s speak about the present. So in the present, if you remember last episode, episode eight, Lottie had proposed something incredibly logical, which was, Hey, let’s drink from these cops. I’m one of them spiked with phenobarbital, and if you drink that one, you’re going to die. But then the wilderness will let us be and our lives will be good. Now, first of all, I have a problem with this theory I brought up last week. But the truth is, that doesn’t make any sense, because Travis already died. Right? So surely your life should be fine. Like, how many times do I have to do a sacrifice? Yeah, well, you’re talking about law. That was, like, two months ago or something. How many sacrifices do you need to do? Makes no sense.


Jason Concepcion But again, I think this is this is a handful of mentally ill people, like.


Rosie Knight Exactly.


Jason Concepcion Arguing about a supernatural shit. That doesn’t make any sense. Like, folks, we’ve got bodies already on the ledger. We don’t need to be throwing other bodies at it. Let’s put Adam in there. What about, like, what about Adam? Throw another one of their fucking killed. But the head of. Of what? Of yours. Thank you. Did it come up?


Rosie Knight I will say, Adam, he adds a little bit, you know, to the theory that this does work, though, because after they shot and killed Adam, Jeff was selling sofas like hotcakes. I couldn’t believe it. I don’t know a Jeff, Only it was going well for Jeff only. So this is a classic. Like you said, I think this is a bunch of mentally ill people who are really struggling with their decisions. Yeah, because we end up in a situation here where Shauna decides the best way to distract Lottie from her plan to kill them all is to be like, don’t. No, no, no. If we’re going to do it.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight We got to just, like, sacrifice someone and kill them with a knife in the woods.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, we got to do it for real? Yeah, like we used to.


Rosie Knight We don’t just want to be drinking this nice cop. I’m like, Babe. Shauna, why always doing this Every time. Every single time. Also, I’m Sorry, I just need to skip back because I did forget this. One of the best moments of this finale that I love so much that is either absolutely irrelevant and just a hilarious character moment or incredibly important and will shape the next season. After Lottie chooses Natalie to be the Antler Queen, we get a clip of Shauna and she’s writing in her diary and she’s like, Why wasn’t it me? Why was I chosen to be the leader? After everything I have done, I’ve been chopping up everyone and I was like, Wow, Shauna, you are petty and I love you.


Jason Concepcion Dear Diary, do my friends hate me, question mark. I know that we started off on the wrong foot with me fucking my friend’s boyfriend, but she’s dead now.


Rosie Knight We ate her.


Jason Concepcion And we’ve kind of patch things up in the afterlife. Like I had a long running multi week delusion where I was talking to her in the night ear. And we’re good now, but now all of a sudden, I chop up Javi, and all of a sudden nobody wants to choose me for it. Look, Queen, what the fuck?


Rosie Knight What the fuck? That was like, so good. So Shauna is really channeling that energy here with this terrible choice.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight So that sets off a whole series of events, and they’re like, Well, we’ll do that to distract more. But what do they do in the meantime? Nothing. Pure chaos. Jeff shows up to Camp Green Pine with Callie. Terrible parenting. Jeff Don’t do it. Shouldn’t have done that, lovey. Jeff Love you deeply. I’m the head of your fan club, but don’t do it. Jeff and Callie turn up. Jeff goes inside and finds Kevin Tan, the cop, talking to Walter. Why is he there? This is what we call Walter ex-machina. I love Elijah Wood. I think they’re very lucky they got him for this role. He sells it for me, even when it gets outrageous. But Kevin and Walter, they’re just having a friendly chat. You know, Kevin is questioning Walter. What’s is pretending that he thinks that, you know, the people from the Yellowjackets survival crash, they’re really bad people. Why don’t you have some delicious hot cocoa, Kevin Tan, while I tell you this story?


Jason Concepcion Are you a detective?


Rosie Knight I love being a detective.


Jason Concepcion I’m kind of a detective. I’m in part of the amateur detective community. You might have heard of us.


Rosie Knight Have you heard of us? Have you heard of us? And Jeff shows up, and he’s like, Fuck, Kevin, You followed me here. I’m really dumb. I should have realized that was going to happen. But I didn’t, because I’m like a sweet himbo who just lost my wife. I’m going to false confess that I killed Adam Morton so that you leave my wife alone. It’s very honorable. Kevin is clearly quite and upset because it’s. Well, you know what I like Jeff. I like Jeff because he is crazy. Just as crazy as Shauna.


Rosie Knight Let me say this about Jeff, who has been going through it all season and is going through it in this episode in a wonderfully unhinged performance by Warren Cole, who’s like.


Rosie Knight Unbelievable.


Jason Concepcion Jeff is on the edge of tears this entire episode, and it must have been so emotionally grueling to film this. And I’ll say this about the the honorable illness of his decision. Here it is, I guess.


Rosie Knight But it’s loyal. That’s the word I should have used.


Jason Concepcion It’s loyal. Here’s my counter. You’re leaving Callie with your insane wife.


Rosie Knight I know.


Jason Concepcion Like you are the levelheaded one. Like, throw her under the bus.


Rosie Knight I know. I do wonder about that. But I’m also like, maybe he’s like, I’ll be safer in prison from my wife and my daughter.


Jason Concepcion I love, like, the intent, my mass murdering cannibalistic wife.


Rosie Knight And a cool daughter who, like, is clearly getting more and more into that lifestyle as she gets older. Yeah. So it doesn’t matter because guess what? Jeff, his confession is useless because that delicious cocoa with marshmallows and whipped cream that Kevin Tan was sipping on in the kitchen of Camp Green Pine, it was spiked with phenobarbitol and boom, Kevin Towns dead, not knocked out, not asleep.


Jason Concepcion Can you just get phenobarbital? Like, what are people just getting Santa Barbara tall?


Rosie Knight So did he get it from where Lottie had it because Misty told him he had it or did he bring his own phenobarbital? Because this is clearly not the first time this man’s murdered someone.


Jason Concepcion Oh, clearly not. And I just have a real issue with this is this one I would have loved to see Jeff and or Shauna get out of this situation on their own, not have a deus ex Walter, like, show up and kill the guy. And secondarily, Walter, which is our next bullet point, then goes to M. Saracousa, and he’s like, Hey, so you’re going to go along with this, that it was actually Kevin that killed Adam for this and this and this reason. I’ve set it up. I put it to text messages. I’ve got I’ve got all the fake messages and stuff.


Rosie Knight The bank details, bank details, everything. I’m a billionaire. I go, I can do whatever I want.


Jason Concepcion It looks fucking good. Yeah, this is I just do this for laughs. Like this is a hobby of mine. I’m into it and you’re going to find that it’s seamless and you’re going to go along with it. Because if you don’t go along with it, it’s going to look like you did it. And oh, by the way, also, you were attempting to date like a high school junior or and or senior as part of this. So it’s like it’s going to look really, really bad for you. Why would m Sarah it go along with like, wouldn’t he be like, I guess I’m going to have this murder hanging over my head for the rest of my life.


Rosie Knight I think that the argument, because we’ve talked about was shithead M Saracousa.


Jason Concepcion He really is a dumb man.


Rosie Knight He is the fucking worst.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight I think the argument here is like water plays into his ego. One he does and M Saracousa are up for the murder of Kevin destroys he steals is gone and then just shoots Kevin three times. Yeah And I think he plays into his ego and he’s basically like, you can be the hero. You took him down, you found the evidence. That’s right. You get that promotion that you guys had really wanted, and nobody finds out you were dating a teenager. And actually, you can go and you can go and date more teenagers and steal more information from them and manipulate them. I don’t care about it. Go for it. Go crazy. So I think that’s the the reasoning. But it is extremely outrageous. Yeah, I feel like it tips the show into a different space.


Jason Concepcion It’s almost slapstick in the way it goes down. Like it’s.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion It’s almost a comedic piece in the way he just like, drops dead like a Looney Tunes character.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm. Also, look, I want anyone out here reading anything into this that isn’t about it. Yeah. I’m not saying I wish Kevin Tan lived, but he was not doing a good job. He was a bad cop out of the two of them. I would rather M Saracousa died, like if I was picking.


Jason Concepcion I think m M Saracousa is definitely the one with the kind of like the moral gray area. Here is my head canon for why, if indeed, M Saracousa ends up keeping the secret. Why he would. I think he was a little eager to be like, hey, why don’t I just take the teenage daughter of the suspect on a few days? He was very, very eager to do that. And I do wonder if he does end up keeping the secret, if the reason isn’t that, guess what? M. Saracousa, a complete dirtbag.


Rosie Knight Yeah. No, no, no. I think you actually, ironically, with this head canon, I think you actually tap into probably what the show really wants us to think, which is Siracusa has come up against a person in Malta who has all this information, who has all this power, who can set something like this up. How likely would Walter have to scratch into M Saracousa’s history to find out all the terrible shit that he did? I mean, he didn’t tell Kevin about that plan. He just went to a bar and hit on Callie. He wasn’t undercover. He didn’t have any kind of legal protections around him. I think you’re right. I think he’s just a total dirtbag. And it’s also a self-preservation thing as well as an ego thing. Speaking of Callie. Callie almost kills M Saracousa. I would have absolutely loved to see it. She also would have helped Walter out.


Jason Concepcion She was ready to commit a murder.


Rosie Knight She had that gun, and she was like, Boom, I’m just going to shoot this fucking guy. But Walter drew him away with a hilarious mobile phone trick. Poor Jeff, almost crying, watching him doing this, setting up a killer.


Jason Concepcion X-ray Vision will be back.


Speaker 5 <AD>


Jason Concepcion And we’re back.


Rosie Knight There’s a lot going on at Camp Green Pine in this episode. We are seeing murders, set ups, all kinds of occurrences. Callie almost kills someone. Jeff’s there. This is a real like you bring everyone in for the finale episode. But let us not forget that there is also the question of the sacrifice, the wilderness sacrifice, which I’m now feeling like the whole reason Green Pine was there was so they could do the wilderness sacrifice again, you know? And now I need to ask you this question. Sure. I really love Yellowjackets. And even though this finale was totally out there in kind of like a jumped the shark thing, I’m still committed. I still care about these characters. But I do need to know this because I’ve been thinking about this a lot.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight So they pull the cards. Natalie pulls the Black King card. Yeah. Shauna pulls the Queen of hearts. Shauna’s response is extremely Shauna. She’s like, We’re not really doing this now. I’m the victim. All We all. You’re so silly. Like, how could we ever do this?


Jason Concepcion Right. Yeah.


Rosie Knight But every single one of those girls, not just Lottie, they just those women, they just put the masks on, and they’re just going to kill.


Jason Concepcion They’re ready.


Rosie Knight Explain that to me. Is it like a trigger from the past? Have they been waiting for it? Shauna played the wrong card and didn’t realize how, like, fragile they all were.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, I think that they had just been so kind of primed to be back in that mind state that they were just flat out ready to do it. Yeah, and clearly very, very eager to do it to get back in the hunt. This is why I feel like we’re kind of putting the cart before the horse with the death. And Natalie, you want to see those hunts.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion You want to see them doing this stuff that would lead them to then become these people where 30 years after the fact, just after some light suggestion.


Rosie Knight They can still click.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, you can just go right back into murder mode after, you know, some random drawings of cards.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion What do you think happened?


Rosie Knight I think you’re right. That was the bit. I just went with the vibe. Hilarious. Like slapstick out there. Horror logic of the whole thing. That was the first bit that kind of made me sort of go. Oh, I do believe that Ty, in her current state, we’re still be, we’d say, all season. Tai get some help. Tai Check on your family. There’s another issue I have with this is what’s going on with your family, babe.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Just give you a call, please. How is your wife?


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Please. I would like to know. How’s the dog?


Jason Concepcion Can I ask, when do you do state senator stuff? Do you. work?


Rosie Knight Never.


Jason Concepcion Like, what is going on at the New Jersey State House and has government ground to a halt? Because you are literally never fucking there.


Rosie Knight Never. One day since you were elected.


Jason Concepcion The freshman senator who has just been elected to office and you have been there a grand total of 0.000.


Rosie Knight Zero percentile attendance.


Jason Concepcion What is going on?


Rosie Knight Taissa, please get some help.


Jason Concepcion Go to work.


Rosie Knight So, like, I believe she could be into it.  Natalie, I don’t know. Maybe because, like, Lottie was into it. Again, I like your reading where I think it’s more about like that in that setting. They’ve got the masks. They’re just primed to be there, and none of them are ever really that far away from breaking. And I believe Shauna actually her response I think her response in the woods, in the past, in the nineties, would have been exactly the same. Oh, we’re not really doing this. This is really dumb. I can’t believe you guys are thinking of doing that.


Jason Concepcion Oh, you guys. Yeah.


Rosie Knight I think she would have done that. So I think in that way it plays. So Callie ends up interrupting and it’s really great. There’s this really great weird moment where Lottie says, Is that your daughter? She’s so powerful. What is that? Is she the next antler queen? I don’t know. But I liked it like Simone Kessel sold it, it felt very ominous and important. And then eventually Lisa shows up and Lisa is like, You can’t kill Lottie. She’s helping me. Natalie, what’s going on? Did. And kind of causes a commotion, doesn’t want to listen, wants to protect Lottie. And of course, the ever industrious Misty has another phenobarbital needle Just ready.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Let me. Hold on. Let me get in my backpack. I’ve got it ready to go.


Rosie Knight She’s got it strapped to our arm. Who knows? Like, she’s like, this is the correct amount. And she pulls out. But as they’ve kind of been seeding throughout the season, Natalie and Lisa have become quite close. And Natalie sees Lisa as kind of a younger version of herself and someone that she can, I guess, imagine a future for.


Jason Concepcion Mm hmm.


Rosie Knight And so Natalie sacrifices herself, and Misty stabs Natalie with the needle. I don’t know how much I believe that people would just believe that was a drug overdose randomly in the shoulder, you know? But they do works for everyone. And Misty kills her BFF, which is very shocking.


Jason Concepcion That was harrowing. And first of all, Natalie missed her calling as like a Secret Service agent because she.


Rosie Knight The timing.


Jason Concepcion The timing was unbelievable. She got she saw what was happening and got in there. I don’t necessarily know that like phenobarbital, calling someone to death is the way to go in that situation, you know? But Misty has her own way of doing things. I was just like, saddened. I want to spend more time with Natalie, although clearly we will be spending a lot of time with past Natalie.


Rosie Knight Young Natalie.


Jason Concepcion In the future times. But this is one of those things where we just closed a loop that people are just going to like, be like, okay, she’s dead. And what’s the stab wound? Puncture wound in her shoulder? That’s nothing.


Rosie Knight I know. They were like she it was a drug overdose, which I also thought was actually I’m sure this was intentional by the show, but that was like really going to me because like, Natalie had just spent all this time getting clean.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Besmirch her reputation one last time on the way out. Just be like, Yeah.


Rosie Knight And then be like, Oh, she was an addict. She just died of addiction. Like anyone who knew her, know how that’s just what happened? Like, that was really fucked up.


Jason Concepcion I agree.


Rosie Knight And that kind of, I think, shows that there’s not really any solidarity with these women at all. I don’t love that because I kind of think one of the things that people enjoyed so much about the first season was the reality. And I think you get that in the past of the kind of intricacies and violence, but also kindness of these like teen girl friendships. And that’s really fallen apart for all of them at this point. I mean, the present episode ends with, you know, Misty goes to Walter for comfort and Walter tells her, Hey, don’t worry. Like I said, your friends are chill. Nothing wrong here. We’re just cool. Now, I did that for you because that’s just how it is. So those two are a little pair. You have Jeff and Shauna finding out that they’re going to be safe, allegedly, apparently. And then Lottie, after Tai and Van decide not to call the mental health professionals to help out before the sacrifice, because they’re like, we don’t do that. You know, we just we do this. We look after ourselves, which I’m like, I half appreciate if you guys were in a better state to look after her, but you’re not. And then this happens, like just get sectioned. She’s going back to the mental institute. They’re taken out of the hospital, and the two girls are like, Peace out. They don’t even go with her. I was like, Guys, come on, You’re put in this situation once again. Can you please, like, go with her and support her? But Lottie has this to say at the end, which I think will end up becoming likely a huge talking point and could either inform the next season or definitely inform the bonus episode, which we’ll kind of talk about in a minute. Voices like The Wilderness is happy with us. She’s like, You’ll see. But I can feel it. And obviously we know Lottie is suffering from a severe psychotic break at this point. She hasn’t been on her meds, She’s been having visions. But I think the way that the show plays with our expectations, even though I feel like the finale here, really cements all theory about it being only trauma based, I think that by season three opening of season three, Ty’s wife will wake up. Vance Cancer will start going into remission even though it wasn’t supposed to. And those questions will start popping up again of what do these sacrifices do?


Jason Concepcion I want to jump back to one thing, which is I understand that the show wanted us to feel that Natalie was growing close to Lisa. We had that, you know, that moment where we get to meet Lisa’s family and see how eminently shiny they are and the trip back to her hometown. That was enough to be like, I’m going to take the needle for Lisa. Like, I’m not saying kill Lisa.


Rosie Knight Knock the needle out of Misty’s hands, punch Misty in the face.


Jason Concepcion I mean, we had like one nice lunch and hung out, like at your childhood home. I don’t know if I’m, like, leaping in front of the syringe for you. Natalie, just why not say, look out. What about that? Look out.


Rosie Knight Yeah. So that’s good. So remember, just so they make a good point. He was saying, like, it could be intrinsically connected to what she didn’t do for Javi.


Jason Concepcion Oh, yeah, that’s true. That’s a good point.


Rosie Knight You know, it’s like she didn’t save him. She didn’t save the innocent. She didn’t make that choice. And also, we know that when they found Natalie, Camp Green Pine found Natalie, she was going to commit suicide. So she already has those kind of tendencies. But I would just love to see a story where somebody who struggled with addiction, with mental health problems that didn’t die. I was really rooting for Natalie, basically.


Jason Concepcion To bring it to a more serious level. Right. I think where I’ve come with this show and the story is that again, it is. And I think we agree this is basically the story of several young women who had a shared mass delusion. And this was in large part inspired by the fact that one of them had an active mental health issue, which she was running rampant and unmedicated. And this really because of this person’s innate charismatic ness, kind of the led to a lot of their very murderous and cannibalistic decisions. And it just feels like. You know, there’s a lot of people with mental illness who don’t eat people. And so if that is indeed where we’re going, I guess there’s still a lot of leeway on either side of that issue. I hope that it’s not just they were crazy and then they committed a lot of murders and ate people because they were nuts.


Rosie Knight I like that you brought that up because I do trust this show. Yes. I really have enjoyed this show. I feel like it’s so interesting and weird. And even when it’s doing the wildest things, like in this finale, you’re still entertained and you’re still thinking like, why would they do that? Like you still having those conversations. But the Lottie stuff, I feel like it’s tough because I don’t want to prejudge it. Yeah, but I would like to see a more nuanced representation of a struggle with mental illness and a bit more of a holistic view of life as a person. Because like you said, a lot of us struggle with mental illness. We don’t eat people, but a lot of us don’t crash into the world.


Jason Concepcion That’s true.


Rosie Knight Just saying, just saying, but a lot of people I think that you raise a very good point, and I hope the mental health issue isn’t essentially like a McGuffin or they could Deus Ex-Machina. And also, speaking of a Deus Ex-Machina, before we get on to that final bonus episode story. What do you think is going to happen with Misty and Walter? Are they going to go on a road trip together?


Jason Concepcion They are the same person. You could argue that they are too much the same person.


Rosie Knight Yes, I think we’re seeing that now.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, but that relationship will continue if for any other reason than Walter is not going to let it go. Like this is not the end of this.


Rosie Knight He did this for her.


Jason Concepcion He did this for her. And he is going to remain in her life. He’s not going to let it go.


Rosie Knight That’s a great point, actually, and quite a good creepy to read. I saw one of the theories that my friend James is talking about I thought was really good was Walter’s end game is he is a cannibal. And the ultimate thing if you are a cannibal, is to eat another cannibal.


Jason Concepcion Wow. I like that.


Rosie Knight That’s good, right?


Jason Concepcion I love that.


Rosie Knight I think that is, like, really cool. And it also plays in Sin City, you know, the Robert Rodriguez adaptation of the Frank Miller comics.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight He played a cannibal, so I kind of like that. And it was this huge deal that, like this cute young guy who played a hobbit was playing this cannibal killer. So I kind of like that echo and that potential idea that Walter has this kind of weird ongoing end game, which is like he just wants to beat Misty because she’s also a cannibal.


Jason Concepcion I really, really like that.


Rosie Knight Oh, yeah. We should just say is we don’t really know what it’s going to be or how it’s going to look or when it’s going to come out. But there was confirmation from the showrunners of Yellowjackets that we will be getting a bonus episode Wild that is essentially going to be kind of in between season two and season three. A lot of rumors and Internet speculation had been going on that a bonus episode existed or that they were going to drop a bonus episode. We don’t know when it’s coming out. Doesn’t look like it’s too soon. But from what we’re hearing as well, maybe not directly connected to the two stories we’ve seen, kind of like a law episode. Is there anything in your mind that if they did like a bottle episode that you would feel like could really bring season two together or make you even more excited for season three?


Jason Concepcion I think more Woods stuff, more context, more.


Rosie Knight The wilderness is the is the stuff.


Jason Concepcion That’s where the real that’s the story engine, is whatever happened there, it’s affecting their later lives and all the drama that we get, you know, at Camp Green Pine at the you know, with the murder of Adam, with Tai’s ongoing struggle with hallucinations, all of that stuff stems from everything that happened in the woods. So I hope that whatever it is, is forest centric, you know, more murders that they’ve committed there and another hunt, whatever the case may be. But I think it has to be there. We have to.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion It feels strange to not know more about what happened there because it just feels like it all informs this other the present day storyline. And it’s hard to judge what these characters do without knowing what really went on there. We know there’s a few murders and certainly multiple bodies eaten at this point, but what else?


Rosie Knight Yeah, we need to know. I totally agree with you. I think that democracy, the kind of burgeoning democracy of the antler queen and kind of the lore of that. We also get an interesting moment when Natalee ends up on the plane again just before she passes over and she sees Javi and she sees young Natalie. And I wonder if there’s something there about this kind of almost how Lost would do a lot of these side jumps that were kind of people all meeting up again in heaven. Spoiler alert for Lost. But I wonder if there’s something about that limbo space of the plane and maybe that somewhere where they can explore different parts of people’s lives in a way that has to feel less concrete, any of the timeline. But yeah, I’m very interested in it. Well, see.


Jason Concepcion We will see.


Rosie Knight Who knows when it’s going to come out.


Jason Concepcion Up next, Nerd Out.


Rosie Knight In today’s Nerd Out where you tell us what you love and why, or a theory that you’re excited to share. Lee shares a mustache theory on Moff Gideon. Now, this is actually I think it’s right. I’m just going to say I’m putting it out there first before we even get in. I think this is right.


Jason Concepcion Lee, first of all, presages his theory by saying that it’s not entirely his theory. It’s he’s seen stuff to this effect online. But the gist of the theory is this quote, Moff Gideon’s lack of a mustache this season from Mandalorian was actually due to the fact that we were watching a clone the entire time instead of the mustache mask. Gideon, we see in seasons one and two, we actually see D Mustache Gideon who mirrors the clones in the tanks that Mando destroys. Thus, the real Moff is off somewhere, kicking up his imperial boots and eating travel biscuits. Far more basic theory, Lee’s more basic theory. Quote: one, The dude was fully covered in beskar armor and who are we to say that he could not have survived that epic explosion? And two, there is no body. We never see a body. And I’ll do it in the voice here. I’m asking, Mike, where’s the body? Because if we can see your body, mind. I’m just saying we all know somebody might not be in probably the dead. So, Mike, what do you think? As a body? I’ll take my answer off the air. I will say I like this theory for the simple fact that like not having a mustache, changing bits of costume, those aren’t accidental things, but those are very purposeful decisions. And whether it’s a clone or not, I don’t know. But it’s clear that they want us to think that maybe that’s not the same guy.


Rosie Knight I think that you are right. And I think that Lee makes a great point here, not only by sharing this theory. I appreciate you crediting that someone else came up with that. That’s very nice of you. And I think that the mustache theory holds up because, look, if if it had just been that the brilliant actor who plays Moff Gideon no longer had a mustache, right. They could use a fake mustache. Or as we saw in their claim movie Justice League, they could have CG mustache on. They could have taken it off. You know, there’s there’s many different ways to add a mustache.


Jason Concepcion Now, it could be the case that Giancarlo Esposito was only on set for three days. And right after that, he had to go do another thing where he had a clean shaven face or what have you. I’ll say two things. One, it’s not a tremendously bushy mustache.


Rosie Knight I’m saying.


Jason Concepcion It like it looks like max five days. GROSS Like, I think there’s a you could you could have done it.


Rosie Knight You could do it. So I love this theory. I think Jason’s right. All of these things are intentional. Even if this was a simple red herring. It’s a very fun red herring. But I think the reason that Lee really sells me on this is not only is it a great theory and you have the addition of, oh, you know, there’s a clone that didn’t have a mustache, so maybe those clones also you could have that fun kind of almost prestige kind of clone lore where the clone doesn’t know they’re a clone. That’s like a really interesting aspect because he talks a lot about all of his failed clones thinking maybe he really is the real moff, but Lee really sells me on this with the fact there’s no body. We know the rules. If there’s nobody we don’t know, you’re dead. Star Wars rules, horror rules, fantasy rules. Every that’s every franchise. That is the rule. If we never see the body, we don’t know you’re dead. So I think this is so fun. And I would love to see Moustachioed Jedi and come back.


Jason Concepcion I completely agree with you. Think about, you know, what they did with Natalie in Yellowjackets. They showed us her open eyed, dead stare face for 5 seconds to say she is dead.


Rosie Knight Dead, Dead.


Jason Concepcion You don’t see that? They’re alive, period.


Rosie Knight They’re alive. Yeah, that’s me. And I’m still I’m still a Stew lives guy. I saw that TV fall on Stew’s head in Scream, but I never saw a body maybe survive. Maybe his face just fucked up. It can happen. Thankfully, if you have theories or passions, you want to share, hit us up at Instructions in the show notes.


Jason Concepcion Well, that’s it for us, Rosie. Any plugs?


Rosie Knight Oh, I have cool things to plug so you can find me @RosieMarx on Instagram and Letterbox’d. And if you are in the L.A. area and not the South Bay, I know I usually promote things in the South Bay, but on June 10th, Saturday, June 10th, me and Nick Marino will be doing a signing at T4, which is the comic bookshop on Universal Citywalk. So if you’re in the Valley and you want to come say hi to us, it’s a really cool shop owned by Dark Horse Comics, and we’ll be there signing a bunch of Godzilla stuff. So come and see us there. And if you’re in SGV like San Gabriel Valley area, me, Nick, a couple of our friends, Mark, Nate, we’re doing a spider-verse inspired art show and a really great comic shop, nostalgic comics, and I made a Hobey Brown fan art piece which I’ll share on my socials. If you want to see it in person, you can go there and you can support a really great shop.


Jason Concepcion Catch the next episode on Friday, June 9th for a mailbag, plus an interview with Spider-Man, India Comics writer Nikesh Shukla. And a little rundown on Miguel Ohara, Spider-Man 2099, the spoiler antagonist, the villain kind of came from and Spider-Man across the spider-verse.


Rosie Knight And in some sad news, X-ray Vision is taking a mini summer vacation. Not sad for us because we need a break, but maybe sad if you like listening to the show, there will be no episodes next week on both June 14 and June 16th and we will be back on June 21st if you want to watch us. Until then, while you miss us, subscribe on YouTube. You can see full episodes of the show and check out The Discord to hang out and meet cool people who listen to the show, who love all kinds of cool stuff. From sperhereos to Survivor and to sports and all kinds of rad things. And me and Jason are there, too.


Jason Concepcion Yay. Five star ratings. Five star reviews. We need them. We got to have them. You got to give them to us. Here’s one from NCFly: truly the best. Listen, I love X-ray Vision. I wanted to get into colors for a long time, but I was never sure where to start. Jason, Rosie, You provide excellent recommendations in a way that is inclusive of comics, newbies and experts alike. The banter between Jason and Rosie is the best. I can’t recommend this podcast, so thank you and see. Thank you. See you next time.


Rosie Knight Bye.


Jason Concepcion X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin and executive produced by me, Jason Concepcion. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Video production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaewski. Social Media by Ewa Okulate and Caroline Dunphy. Thank you to Brian Vasquez for our theme music.