In This Episode
This week, Louis Virtel is joined by pop culture commentator Nina Parker to discuss the new Wuthering Heights film as well as the deaths of Robert Duvall, James Van Der Beek and Rev. Jesse Jackson. They also unpack Netflix’s revelatory new documentary series about the 2000s reality TV classic, America’s Next Top Model, and the shocking behavior that went on in-front-of and behind the cameras.
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TRANSCRIPT
Louis Virtel [AD]
Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel, and I love the smell of medium octane pop culture takes in the morning. RIP Robert Duvall, that’s my tribute to Apocalypse Now. Also, this is another episode of the other podcast we do, Guess Who Died? Because three people have died this week. It’s extraordinary, we’ll get into those. But we have a returnee to Keep It this week!
Nina Parker Hello.
Louis Virtel One of the best. Nina Parker, welcome back to Keep It.
Nina Parker How are you? Thank you.
Louis Virtel I’m so psyched you’re here.
Nina Parker Me too.
Louis Virtel And I’m not so psych that people are dead.
Nina Parker I mean, it’s, you know, I always say people are dying who never died before. They’re trying it for the first time. How dare you? You know, some people ain’t got no business being dead. Right. You know like Whitney Houston, like you ain’t no business.
Louis Virtel Whitney Houston is one of the few people where I remember where I was and who I had to call.
Nina Parker Yes!
Louis Virtel I got my friend Andrew who saw her in concert, I’ve seen her in a concert. I called him and like a newscaster it was like, I have to tell you that Whitney Houston died. Why was I possessing that moment?
Nina Parker Well, you know, I have a weird thing because I was reporting on a lot of these people So I’d be the first person to find out so all my family would always text me and be like, is it true? Mm-hmm You know, so not only do I have to deal with like working you if you have a black family That is somebody iconic has died and they black you on the phone all day.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Nina Parker Because they want to know what you know So, you, know, they like how where was Whitney where was she at? They wanted to go to the hotel chow So yeah, it’s a thing
Louis Virtel Well, this week, we just like within seconds lost Jesse Jackson.
Nina Parker Yeah.
Louis Virtel We lost Robert Duvall, the legendary actor, I mean, 95 years of age.
Nina Parker Yeah.
Louis Virtel We’ll get into him in a second and James yeah and James Vanderbeek best known for Dawson’s Creek died last week Oh, I can’t believe we have to cover that this week, too
Nina Parker I know. They hit every, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Do you think the Grim Reaper is MAGA?
Louis Virtel Wow.
Nina Parker Cause see, how you gonna take Jesse during Black History Month? Right, in the heart of Black History. In the heart, how dare you? Yeah. How dare you, he’s gotta be a Republican.
Louis Virtel It feels pointed come to think of it
Nina Parker You’re takin’ everybody but.
Louis Virtel I mean, Robert Duvall, I’ll say this, 95 years of age. I mean that’s an extraordinary long time to live. This is somebody who, so this is a guy who was in the movie, The Godfather, and was in his 40s then. So think about that.
Nina Parker Because there are some actors who have always just been older. Right. You know, like Morgan Freeman. Have you ever seen him young?
Louis Virtel No, like when he plays a pimp and street smart, he was still like granddad.
Nina Parker Yeah, I mean, what an extensive career.
Louis Virtel Right.
Nina Parker You know, there are some, and there are also some actors where whatever they’re in, you just know it’s gonna be good. Robert Duvall was definitely that.
Louis Virtel And also, I believe he holds the record for starring in the most movies on the AFI Top 100 Best Movies list, so he was pure prestige.
Nina Parker This is why I like talking to you, because who just says that?
Louis Virtel I have a disease where I just know that. But yeah, The Godfather one and two, he’s in Apocalypse Now. He went on Oscar for a movie called Tender Mercies, which is a, he plays a alcoholic country singer starting a new life, cute little movie. He also was in one of the best movies about toxic masculinity I’ve ever seen, which is The Great Santini. He plays this guy, this military asshole who has a family, calls himself The Great Santini, and you see him. Leading this family. All he understands is competition and he traumatizes his son. Basically he plays a game of basketball with him where he dribbles the ball against his head. Very memorable performance. But I have to say, I believe Robert Duvall holds the record for most performances that make you say, fuck. Like this is a scary man who plays a lot of power on camera.
Nina Parker He’s had generational films too, so it’s just like, you can’t really go wrong with wherever you decide to land, because we really should have a game where you just spin a wheel and just watch one of his movies, and it’s gonna hit every time.
Louis Virtel No, right. I recently lost Diane Keaton, Robert Redford. It’s like we’re losing the people that remind us why we make movies.
Nina Parker Right, because now you just have somebody from TikTok in a film, right? So it’s like, I feel like with music and with acting, we are losing recipes.
Louis Virtel Yes, yes.
Nina Parker You know, because they’re, it used to be distinctive and like what would make you different. And now it’s kind of like they want the same, everybody to be the same. Want the same thing. They’re only worried about who’s gonna watch. They’re not really worried about the quality of it. So.
Louis Virtel So we’re getting algorithmized, if you will.
Nina Parker If you will. Yes, we are, which you know, we own our phones, so maybe we won’t notice.
Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s true. No, we’re complicit, etc.
Nina Parker And Jesse Jackson, we got to talk about.
Louis Virtel Now, I mean, like, first of all, a pop culture figure like none other. The way he one of those people kind of like Dr. Joy’s brothers who kind of belonged everywhere.
Nina Parker Yeah, I mean, incredible civil rights. I mean I remember being a kid and seeing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and that for me was the peak of, and my young, growing up in the 80s, that was a huge time he ran for president. So it was a really big moment for me in watching civil rights evolve from what it was in the 60s to being in the eighties and kind of looking to see black people run for office. As a kid, that was really inspiring. I think so. You know, it’s a really sad loss, especially in the climate we’re in. I mean, we’re losing leaders when we need more.
Louis Virtel And also, I mean, he was one of the few people of like that political ilk in the 80s, where it’s like, you could expect him to be parodied on SNL, you know, it’s like he was so around and so somebody you had to talk about and like what other like black prominent politician, like he he was like utterly groundbreaking and just I’m around and unavoidable.
Nina Parker Yeah, and I mean, you know, arm in arm with Martin Luther King. So it was just like, again, generational, just someone who has stepped into all these different iconic areas, but also still very relatable. So, um, a big loss.
Louis Virtel Were you a Dawson’s Creek super fan?
Nina Parker Um, I would say probably the first three seasons, I was like a big super fan. And I think it was just at an age where I was, you know, I think I was probably in my teens. So I just kind of, you know you phase out because you’re into other things. But yeah, I for sure was a big, I mean, I was team Pacey.
Louis Virtel Me too
Nina Parker I’m still Team Pacey.
Louis Virtel There’s something, there’s a resting gravitas about Pacey. Listen, let me tell you something. And also he was, now I was gonna say he’s the best actor on the show, but we have Michelle Williams too. He was a really good actor.
Nina Parker Yeah, yeah. He was a good actor and he just, you know, he was interesting. And I wasn’t always like rooting for Dawson because I was, I wanted him and Joey to be together. And I was like, why can’t Dawson get it together? So I think I was more team Pacey at the end. But yeah, big fan of the show for a while.
Louis Virtel I also really liked James Van Der Beek on Don’t Trust the Bee and Apartment 23, which is this TV show that like doesn’t get referenced anymore. It’s like sort of in this dead zone of the 2010s where like people don’t remember like any of the TV shows around that time. I was just realizing that recently, and I say this with affection to Wendy McLendon Covey, that the Goldbergs ran for 10 seasons.
Nina Parker Yeah, that’s interesting. See, this is why, again, I like talking to you, because who would have known? But let me tell you something, I probably would never have thought about the Goldbergs ever again.
Louis Virtel I mean like I was talking with a friend recently about long-running TV shows that don’t have a single iconic episode like the show Wings ran for eight seasons What we’re still getting on a plane WHAT ARE WE DOING?!
Nina Parker Gosh wings, I forgot about that show. Wow, you’re really, can you hit me with one more?
Louis Virtel Well, one of my favorite TV shows of all time. I would say it doesn’t really have an iconic episode, but did you ever watch the old Norman Lear show One Day at a Time with Bonnie Franklin and Valerie Bertinelli?
Nina Parker Yes, I did. I used to love one day at a time.
Louis Virtel Nine, ten seasons.
Nina Parker Yeah, well that I can understand that show was iconic back then
Louis Virtel No, but I mean it was a show about we’re three girls in a family and the superintendent is a little horny.
Nina Parker And walking around with the cigarettes on his arm. Like, this was a weird show. But I think I remember as a kid watching it, along with mama’s family.
Louis Virtel Of course, yes.
Nina Parker Mama’s family, please. I love Mama’s- Nikki Lawrence.
Louis Virtel Vicky Lawrence, come on, keep it.
Nina Parker I will, please, I would love that. I don’t know if I can pick out one iconic episode, but I mean, you know.
Louis Virtel No, I believe Vicki Lawrence still performs that character on tour. So, I mean, we should go
Nina Parker We should go. We should find out where and just go.
Louis Virtel No, and I know the answer is Arizona. Don’t you worry about that.
Nina Parker Too big in Vegas, too.
Louis Virtel Please in the comments, tell us what your favorite Robert Duvall role is. Because by the way, I want to say also, I interviewed this man in 2015 for a movie he did called The Judge, which was his last Oscar nomination. No one knows why. But I was in the same room as him and Robert Downey Jr. And not intimidated by Robert Downy Jr. At all, even though he was worth, what, nine figures or something. Robert Duval sitting there, you’re like, this man can’t be looking at me. I’ll disappear. Like, he’s going to vaporize me. I mean, you know, he was like an older actor. But we talked about some of his fabulous. No, right.
Nina Parker When they get over certain things, they don’t want to be there.
Louis Virtel A junkie?
Nina Parker They are, I don’t want to do a junket now. No. Try to have me do a junket in 20 years, baby, please.
Louis Virtel No, and by the way, what happens is if you’re a reporter, you might get like four minutes, if you were at a bigger outlet, maybe 10 minutes to talk to a celebrity, and they’re sitting there all day.
Nina Parker It’s the worst for everybody involved. Can we just be honest junkets? They’re necessary. Nobody wants to do them. No. Nobody, you’re in the lobby with all the other reporters and everybody’s like, kill me.
Louis Virtel I remember one time, Kate Beckinsale was late for an interview I was doing, and she, you know, I was like, I don’t know what’s going on with Kate Beckinale, maybe she’s going through it. And she sits down and she’s refreshed and she asks the person running the junkies, she goes, how many more do I have? And he goes, 27. Oh, right. If I’m Kate Beckinsale this moment, I’m-
Nina Parker Yeah, and you can, you know, I feel like I don’t get the best interviews at junkets, like I hate them. Me neither. Because I feel you don’t like get a good interview. But I also understand why they’re exhausted, they’re annoyed, because they get asked the same questions after, you now, two interviews, you’re over it.
Louis Virtel And also, the people interviewing them are routinely not you or not I, where they want to come up with something novel or be like, they don’t want the answer that everybody else is giving them, because it might be somebody from like, you know, Minnesota where like this is their only pop culture correspondent, so they’re only asking the one question that everybody’s asking to give their readers, anyway.
Nina Parker We get it. We get the machine, but I understand why people are like, I just, I don’t know.
Louis Virtel I didn’t realize I had to go into this today, but I’m so glad we did. Anyway, all right, Pete Robert Duvall, Jesse Jackson, James Vanderbeek.
Nina Parker This is supposed to be a memorial, but we talking about junkets. This is why I like it. Okay. I love a segue.
Louis Virtel And here comes another one, this episode. We don’t have a guest this episode, we’re just gonna hang out and talk pop culture. We’re also gonna talk about this movie, Wuthering Heights, which the most notable thing about it is that no one will shut up about it.
Nina Parker Listen, I’ve seen the discourse online and I’m curious to know your thoughts because I have thoughts and I think I’m boycotting it.
Louis Virtel Um, I have seen it and I’m also on the fence about boycotting it. We might okay. Yeah I still think this time
Nina Parker You want a post boycott?
Louis Virtel I can find a way in. Also, we will discuss, there’s a new documentary on Netflix about America’s Next Top Model. Childlessness. And I have to say, when I started this, I figured it was a Tyra-produced production. Oh, you did? Because it starts off with a lot of Tyra. Right.
Nina Parker Right, it does.
Louis Virtel And then a turn happens and you realize, oh Tyra is not in control of this.
Nina Parker I’m shocked she agreed to do this without any creative control. I’m actually shocked.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Likewise, we’ll get into the history of America’s next top model, and also just get into reality shows of the 2000s. And again, are Nina and I complicit? Because a lot goes down on these shows.
Nina Parker My frontal lobe wasn’t even developed, Tyra, you blaming me for watching?
Louis Virtel We’ll find a way!
Nina Parker Girl, I was doing homework!
Louis Virtel And then, of course, we’ll also have Keep It. All that and more on this episode of Keep It!
Louis Virtel [AD].
Louis Virtel This Valentine’s Day weekend brought us the steamy premiere of Emerald Finale’s adaptation of Wuthering Heights, starring Jacob Elordi and Marco Rabi, with music by Charlie XCX. Nina, are you intrigued by this project?
Nina Parker You know, I, listen, I like Jacob. You know? I like a little Jacob. Should he have been in this role? You know considering the whole background of his character is supposed to be a person of color. Yeah. You know it was, I know this is like supposed to be kind of an adaption, you can tell me. Like I know it’s supposed to kind of like a funky adaption to, you know, like kind of how they did Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Day.
Louis Virtel That is actually a pretty good corollary, I would say.
Nina Parker Yeah, that’s kind of world I thought it was going to be in, so I kind of understood that, but I just, I don’t know if I can get past that.
Louis Virtel Well, you know what’s interesting is that, first of all, it’s Wuthering Heights in quotes, which is meant to be a sort of cheeky in-joke for the viewer, like, yeah, it is an adaptation of Wutherings Heights, but you know, we’re going to do our own thing or whatever. But honestly, I think this is sort of where the problems begin with this movie, because to me, putting it in quotes speaks to a lack of confidence about the movie. It’s saying, we are not giving you the full Wutherin Heights, we kind of doing our own things and we don’t really know what we came up with, and I think that’s what you get. In this movie, it’s like… You’re supposed to get a big torrid romance. And because it’s Emerald Fennell, who’s given us Promising Young Woman and Saltburn, there are these sort of spiky, crazy, sort of porny, unseemly things she adds to it. But never at any point in this movie, does the romance live up to the grandeur of the original Wuthering Heights. And we’re talking about Margot Robbie playing Cathy and Jacob Elordi playing Heathcliff. Now, what’s interesting is, a lot of people are talking about… Does Jacob Elordi belong in this movie? Because as you said, in the Emily Bronte, Wuthering Heights, he’s described very ambiguously in quote unquote swarthy terms. He could be anything from South Asian to Spanish. And what’s funny is watching Jacob Elorti in this move, I thought, excuse me, the reason Emerald Fennell is making this movie is because she was working with him on Saltburn and said, this man looks like Laurence Olivier, who was in the original, the 1939 Wutherings Heights. And that’s exactly what he delivered.
Nina Parker And it’s like, girl, you just say you think people are going to go because Jacob is attractive. But I do feel like there are certain things where you can improvise and change the character that to me was such a defining part of this character. To take it away and just put Jacob in just seems kind of egregious. But she’s fine to do with whatever she wants to do. People don’t have to go see it, right? But I will say what’s moved me more not to go is everyone online that I see that has gone, the first thing I see online is they say, what was that? What did I just watch? What did just walk out of? I hate movies that make you feel like you did drugs. You know, you walk out feeling weird, you know? You’re like, what is going on? I’ll be honest, I haven’t seen one good like commentary review that’s made me wanna go see this. I’ll just wait for streaming at this point.
Louis Virtel Well, also a lot of people are saying, you know, I didn’t love the movie, but I appreciate that it took big swings. I can’t even really say it took Big Swings. At the end of the movie they sort of add an element of BDSM. Well, you know when these characters are sort of torturing each other, like I’m gonna marry this person to get back at them. They add moments to it that are, you know very heightened and very, shall we say, fulsome. But that’s sort of just window dressing. To me the thing that doesn’t really work about this movie is that Margot Robbie playing Cathy This is a character defined by teenage tendencies. She’s very petulant, very bratty. And in this movie, watching Margot Robbie on screen, I’m looking at her and I’m thinking, but you’re clearly out of grad school. This doesn’t work. Why are you acting this way?
Nina Parker Right, it just didn’t, it didn’t hit. You know what it is, she just was like, I’m gonna take two of the most attractive people and people are gonna watch, and they did.
Louis Virtel I’m sure she got the funding because she got Margot Robbie involved, I get it.
Nina Parker Right, exactly, and we know that they’ve already met their budget, so, you know, as far as money-wise, it did well, but creatively, people aren’t giving it great reviews. No. It is not something that would make me want to go to the theater, I would say that.
Louis Virtel What’s your favorite Jacob Elordi thing? Because I have to say, I do think he is very good in this movie and giving you sort of classic movie star where it’s like just generally tall, dark and handsome.
Nina Parker Yeah, I mean I don’t know if I would say I’m a fan, but I’m attracted to him for sure. I mean, I’ve got eyes
Louis Virtel When he was in that movie Priscilla playing Elvis, that performance was amazing. I can’t believe people don’t talk about it more. It was also a take on Elvis, I believed.
Nina Parker Yeah
Louis Virtel You know, it’s like, oh, he was like a Herman superstar, but also like, he becomes kind of culty in the movie. You know Priscilla realizes she’s sort of trapped in the world of this man, but he’s extremely talented. I, by the way, I thought he was great in Saltburn too. And I think one thing people aren’t saying is that Emerald Fennell gets great performances out of her actors. You know there’s a lot of talk that she’s like unsuccessfully stylish. You know she’s somebody who adds a lot of like bombast to movies, but can’t find the emotional core. It’s like no, the performances are really good.
Nina Parker Yeah, she just reminds me of the director version of Betsy Johnson.
Louis Virtel Oh my gosh.
Nina Parker Yeah, like if Betsy Johnson made movies, it would be her.
Louis Virtel Betsy Johnson always wearing like a New Year’s Eve leg.
Nina Parker Let me put a sheet of print, bow in my hair, and listen to rock music. It’s like, all right, girl, we got the formula.
Louis Virtel And speaking of that, you get Charlie XCX music in this movie.
Nina Parker And that’s, I’m just saying she’s a little predictable with like her unpredictableness, you know? And it’s just, to me, it’s a little like sticky.
Louis Virtel Yeah, I will say though, the Charlie XCX soundtrack on its own, I was pretty impressed by. There are songs in it that are like still full pop songs and yet have the atmosphere of Wuthering Heights. Which is by the way, the entire reason you would go to see this movie. You want like the fog along the moors and like the castles and things like that. And I feel like she captures that in the music. In the movie, I actually feel like the score shies away from the Charlie XCx music. First of all, there’s other scoring. And then secondly, Like the music kind of pipes in and out, but. You never really feel like you’re, like, in the thrall of Charlie’s attacks.
Nina Parker Do you feel like they just use it as like a thing to maybe attract a younger audience? Oh, certainly. Hey, we’re just using her, but then when you watch it’s like, oh, they’re using her but it’s kind of on mute.
Louis Virtel Yeah, because I think it changes the tone of the movie if you use too much of that. It’s meant to be just a romance, a classic romance. But this is the first movie I’ve seen in a long time where I thought Margot Robbie not only wasn’t making great decisions as in again, performing petulance, performing a certain brattiness, but at the same time also didn’t belong in the movie. It needed to be somebody much younger.
Nina Parker Their press run was confusing to me because they were acting like almost like a couple like really affectionate. And I know they’re playing it up for the movie, but it was odd. I was just like, we don’t need to do this to sell the movie.
Louis Virtel I call this the Liam Neeson, Pamela Anderson tactic, the naked gun shit.
Nina Parker Yes. It’s just, I don’t know, I feel like people are smarter than that, you know? And I’m like, we see like these people creating these roles for themselves, like her doing interviews saying that she was so attached to him during filming and I’m like, girl, this is weird. I think it’s weird. It doesn’t make me want to watch the movie. It just makes it feels very inauthentic to me where I’m like, I just rather you go and say, hey, we had a fun time doing this movie. It’s a little crazy. It is a different adaptation, but we want you guys to rock with us. I just rather that.
Louis Virtel I think they were also overcompensating for the fact that the romance doesn’t really click on the silver screen. I don’t know what that is, but in a way, I feel like, even though Emerald Fennell says this is her favorite book, her vibe is way more dangerous liaisons to me, where it’s like she wants seediness between the characters, and she wants bad people on screen.
Nina Parker She should have done dangerous liaisons, you are, that is really spot on. Yeah, and she would have stopped not pissing off all these people. And also, I don’t love how she is disregarding what people are saying about Heathcliff’s character. Yeah, right. I kind of feel like she’s like, oh well, I’m just gonna do what I want. And I feel like that’s very dangerous to do with a group of people.
Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, right. And also it’s interesting, actually, the diversity in this movie. Hong Chau plays a maid to Margot Robbie in the movie. And I would say she gives, among the main performances in the movies, the best performance. It’s an entire performance of reaction shots being like, did you just say that to me? Which is kind of Hong Chow’s thing. And also Hong Chows thing is elevating my least favorite movies. Hong Chou in Downsizing, the worst movie. Hong Chiao in The Whale, the worse movie. And now Hong Chua in Wuthering Heights, Coming in and like She’s like a caseworker who comes into your bad movie and is like, I’ll help.
Nina Parker I’ll fix it. Yeah. Let me, let me, let me caulk these sides and get them all together.
Louis Virtel And also in this movie, there’s young Heathcliff and young Cathy.
Nina Parker Now, I’ve heard good things about them.
Louis Virtel Young Heathliff is Owen Cooper from Adolescents, this kid who keeps winning every award in South.
Nina Parker That actually is the one good thing I’ve heard about. Everybody said he was phenomenal.
Louis Virtel Not only is he so talented, he’s talented to the point where something is wrong with this child. Because like how? The resting angst on him? Yeah. Where did we learn that? Yeah. Why are you a Gen X little kid?
Nina Parker There’s a whole grown ass man in there.
Louis Virtel But he’s you know Heathcliff in this movie is this like orphan who’s taken in by Cathy’s family and He’s a literate and she teaches him to read and stuff But like anyway, there’s a lot of resting angst there and it is so real on screen and so not like the character He played in adolescence, which by the way was the first role he ever played right when people are that naturally talented I’m like we’re haunted
Nina Parker You’re like, who is a 75 year old man in this eight year old body?
Louis Virtel Yes, yeah, with these sad cheekbones and sad eyes. Very perplexing. But there are some fun performances in this. One thing that is successful about this movie is that Allison Oliver plays this character, Isabella, whom Heathcliff eventually marries, and she is basically a stan of Cathy’s. This is a very Emerald Fennell-like choice. She’s like, come in, girl, let me buy you dresses. Let me be obsessed with you. And it feels a bit… Fan culture in a way that feels super contemporary. But the way this actress plays it got gathaws out of my theater, like brought the theater to life. So if you do see it, this is actually a reason to see it because it’s a broadly common performance kind of like Rosamund Pike in Saltburn. If you saw how they got one spikily funny character in the movie. A really funny character in the movie.
Nina Parker Okay, you might have sold this to me, I don’t know. Yeah. Okay.
Louis Virtel Well, again, I would follow Jacob basically everywhere. And by the way, still an off-
Nina Parker You and me both, you and me, both, I ain’t eating.
Louis Virtel Still an Oscar nominee right now for Frankenstein.
Nina Parker Oh yeah, now Chad and forgot about Frankenstein that quickly
Louis Virtel No, with his crazy performance, I mean, it’s just not a movie I really think about because I don’t find Frankenstein interesting.
Nina Parker I mean…
Louis Virtel Did you know he’s a monster, but it has something to do with being human? Moving on.
Nina Parker Right, welcome to our lives every day right now anyway. Yeah, no kidding.
Louis Virtel Yeah, no kidding over monstrous you don’t say
Nina Parker Yeah, you don’t say. Read a book. I just love that things are happening and things keep popping up with the climate we’re in now. Nobody cares, like, you know, Obama admitting the UFOs are real and everybody’s like, we don’t care anymore.
Louis Virtel No, right, I have to go back to sleep. I can’t start on that.
Nina Parker Can you imagine in the 90s as a kid, a former president admitting that there are UFOs and not shutting everything down, and now we could care less?
Louis Virtel Right. No, it’s like recently when those photos of Justin Trudeau and Katy Perry dating popped up and we just said, don’t mess with me right now.
Nina Parker We’re literally like not narrow.
Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, I don’t want to see it.
Nina Parker We’re just saying, not now, we don’t have time for this. Enjoy Canada. Do we even still have that? Right, right, exactly, good for you.
Louis Virtel Yeah, I am happy that Weathering Heights is just an adaptation of an old book that is like doing well at the box office Yeah, you know sure. I also want to say by the way that i’ve heard people compare emerald finnell to Baz lerman and that baz lerman sort of shall we say overcompensates for lack of content with stylish, you Know choices No, I would say emerald finale is a lot more like ryan murphy where it’s just here comes a lurid log line And then we’ll see if I can live up to it You know enjoy The first 10 minutes will be crazy.
Nina Parker And now I’m no longer watching. I just want you to know that. So we have gone to the depths here and back. And now, I’m back on the fence.
Louis Virtel And I do want to say, Emeril Fennell appreciates old movies and I don’t feel like that’s always the case with like lots of new directors this way. And my last Wuthering Heights pimping will be, I watched the 1939 one recently, which has Laurence Olivier and Merle Oberon as Cathy. If you want to laugh the fuck out loud.
Nina Parker Not really.
Louis Virtel Watch the death scene in this movie where Merle Oberon who is not a subtle actress nor a good one Is dying and she asked to be taken to the window by Heathcliff and he drags her and she gives a monolog Where I guess before you die you start making clownish googly eyes because she’s like this
Nina Parker Oh god
Louis Virtel I mean, you won’t believe it. It’s like, it’s like- Now I have to watch it. It’s, like, miming. She’s like Marcel Marceau. And then dies in his arms, limply, like just falls. Yeah. Nobody has ever died like that in history. And also, Laurence Olivier in that movie, obviously very handsome, very brooding, I don’t think became truly an exceptional actor until the 70s. If you guys have not seen the movie Sleuth, it is him and Michael Caine, it is a puzzle caper. They both were nominated for best actor. That almost never happens. So worth watching. So check that out too, based on a play by the great Anthony Schaffer. I’ve only been here with a full list. Yeah, oh no, I live in the past, unfortunately.
Nina Parker You know, I love all of the facts that you bring with these films.
Louis Virtel I arguably bring nothing else to life. I have my facts I learned on Wikipedia and no other input.
Nina Parker It’s like me with pop culture like I’m like you want to know what Britney Spears was doing in the year 2008 I can tell you
Louis Virtel Right. Yes, still with the snakes around her neck.
Nina Parker Yes, absolutely
Louis Virtel Just in a car she stole. Anyway, what did you think of Wuthering Heights? If you thought about it at all, which is dangerous.
Louis Virtel [AD].
Louis Virtel Hold on to your fucking shit. This week, Netflix debuted Reality Check, Inside America’s Next Top Model, in which everyone from Tyra Banks to the executive producer and the network exec gathered to wonder who was responsible for the many insane and toxic things, I’ll call them war crimes. We saw a play out on the iconic 2000s reality competition series. Nina, where to begin?
Nina Parker First I have to say, I’m very surprised Tyra sat down for this.
Louis Virtel I don’t get it. I mean like the degree of “Tyra, can you explain this sexual assault? “Tyra, can you explained treating this person like garbage” and she just has to sit there and give I’m gonna call it pageant face.
Nina Parker She definitely gave, there was one moment when they were asking her about J. Manuel. And it’s obvious they don’t speak. And when they asked about him, she goes, he’s a lovely man. And I was like, oh, this is actually what makes her the craziest to me. Like her response, like something went over her face and she smiled and she goes. I said, oh this bitch is crazy.
Louis Virtel Yeah, she was lost in the smize.
Nina Parker It was more than anything else. I was like this is weird. It’s weird also because she still clearly has the media training from like the early 2000s that no longer works in this day and age because we all have phones and minds and people have platforms where before you didn’t have a platform so everything had to be talked through PR. Now it’s just so transparent these girls can get on their phones and it’s like she hasn’t caught up to that. I do think she’s she’s Because when you’re watching her and Ken Mock, who were the executive producers of the and creators of the show, are talking about it in third person, like they weren’t there making the decisions. So if me and you had a show 10 years ago, we did some shit and now people are asking us, and I would just be like, well, you know, production. No, your production. You know, you were the executive producer, and I know some people are executive producers in name, but then she goes into detail about how she was sitting in the edit base and now she knows how to edit. So you’re telling us that you were part of this, but then in the same time, you’re just kinda like, well, it was just the times. And then blames the viewer and tells us, well, y’all was watching it. And it’s like, lady, I was 13. I’m so sorry, I’m doing this in between homework sessions and you blaming me? Like, you know, it is a part of, I understand it was being consumed at the time, but I just felt like I walked away. Her and Ken Mark had absolutely no account. The accountability was in the negative. It was hard to watch. I mean, there were sexual assaults. There were women who were saying that they had to alter parts of their body against their will. Like, this goes really deep and it deserves way more than a Well, you know, it was just a sign of the times. That’s not gonna get it.
Louis Virtel Well, also what’s very weird is when this documentary starts and it’s a three-part series, it’s all on Netflix right now. Tyra begins by saying there was this reckoning in 2020 during the pandemic when people started discovering A&TM again and were stuck at home just watching it all day. And she said, in that moment, people were criticizing the show and how exploitative it was of the women on it and stuff. And she goes, and I’m so glad they did that because that’s how I learned. So she begins sort of establishing, I understand the show is like dicey and retrospect, but she doesn’t. Because she doesn’t own up to it in any way. But I have to say, a theatrical thrill of watching this is the crazy newswoman posturing that Tyra Banks has while doing anything, while hosting the show, while sitting here answering questions. She reminds me of, and this is a Robert Duvall reference, Faye Dunaway in Network. She’s like, and it’s literally the same story as what happens in that movie, which is we have the last place network. We’ve gotta make this thing sing. How are we gonna do it? We’re gonna, you know, raise the stakes. Make it crazier, make it a weirder, make an uncomfortable. And that’s how it became a sensation. I mean, because by the way, how many actual reality shows run that many seasons? Let alone something like that, that started off so cheap and needed to.
Nina Parker And evolved into this like powerhouse. And I will say it was a huge cultural phenomenon. I remember going home and watching it and said, like, I didn’t have TiVo, I don’t have any of that. I remember watching this in real time. And I’ll say there was a pivotal moment on that show that actually affected me as a young woman that stuck with me that probably was instrumental in a decision I made as an adult. And it was the Danny situation about the gap. So I had a gap my whole life. Me, too, as a kid. Yeah. And I really struggled with it because I got bullied about it a lot. But my mom had one, my grandfather had one. So I would have a year where I loved it, a year I didn’t, and I’ll never forget watching her show and her berate Danny about that gap. And as a young woman watching the show, I cried. I saw this black woman that I admired talking about how no one would want this girl with a gap. And it really messed me up. As a young women, it really messes me up, regardless. I see. Tyra was on magazines in my house. So I’m seeing someone that I revere and a beauty icon telling me something about myself is unattractive and unmarketable. It did damage to me because I didn’t have a ton of black icons that I looked up to at the time, and I think like it stayed in the back of my head. And then when I got on TV and people would troll me, that was the first thing they would say. And ultimately I made the decision to close it. And I’m not putting that responsibility on her, but I will say those things that they did went past just being on TV, especially for young black women. It was impactful in the households where Tyra was one of the few examples of black women who were successful on TV. And a lot of it was damaging to watch in real time. So when people say, well, no one was criticizing it back then. I think that was probably the first moment I thought, I don’t feel good about watching this show. There wasn’t social media to get on back then to criticize. So when people say it wasn’t being critical, there were conversations about the show being damaging. It just wasn’t going online because the platforms didn’t exist.
Louis Virtel Right. Yeah, we are. This is pre-Twitter, et cetera. Tyra talks about going into chat rooms to discover what people were saying about the show. But you’re right. We hadn’t reached peak social media yet. There are some notable alumni. Eva Pigford, great ANTM contestant. Niall DiMarco also came from the show, and by the way, a fabulous talking head on this documentary is Ebony from season one.
Nina Parker Oh, she was great!
Louis Virtel Who was fabulous on the show.
Nina Parker Just also talk about how none of the black women have aged at all. I do have to say, like Danielle on the show, like go ahead and compete again. I was like, y’all could get back on that runway today. Like they looked incredible. Dani, Ebony, I was, like, they were talking about Ebony’s skin and I was just like, I haven’t seen more beautiful skin when she was saying that they were criticizing her about it. It just, I want a second run for all of them to like get what is theirs.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, and Ebony talks about having been an out lesbian on the show in addition to being, you know, a black contestant on a show that didn’t know how to deal with black contestants. So I think this documentary properly gives her her flowers. And by the way, everything she has to say is so fabulous.
Nina Parker You know, I have to say I thought this documentary was very well done. Yeah. I thought it was very well done and I-
Louis Virtel Oh, imagine turning it off. I watched all three parts in quick succession.
Nina Parker I watch all three, and I rarely don’t watch and not pick up my phone. My phone was sitting down. Yeah, no. I paused a few times to post on threads about it. But other than that, and it is getting visceral reactions from everybody. So if you want something, if you just need to rage, watch this.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. If you’re ready to feel, get ready.
Nina Parker Yes, exactly.
Louis Virtel Danielle, by the way, who is a winner of America’s Next Top Model, is one of the highlights of She was phenomenal. Oh, my God. Her delivering the story and remembering everything with such clarity. I mean, like, I imagine it’s a total blitz filming this show. I’m really in awe of the models or former models they had in the show talking about their experience on the show, I also think she’s right about Tyra when she says that when Tyra began the show in the first, like the initial moment creating the show she probably had good intentions. I agree. And thought to herself, I’m one of the few black supermodels so I can run the show and for instance have half the cast be people of color, you know, which was like pretty radical at the time. I always say about Project Runway 2. Imagine having nine gay guys on a show. These were all brand new things at the time. But then it immediately morphed after the ratings hit into all these damaging things.
Nina Parker Yeah, it just and this is what I will say as being a person who has created things for TV been in TV for a long time These networks do come in and try to change the trajectory of the show and tell you things you need to do That you don’t want to do Yeah, you know We know they come in with these notes the network notes and they change things and they and they shift the purpose of the Show because they want the numbers and I I understand that kind of getting away from her but you know, it still doesn’t explain to me like certain pivotal things about her relationships, right? So I had no idea Miss J had a stroke in 2022. Tyra has not visited this person that was such a pivotal part of her life for so many years and in the documentary, you know, they’re like, has Tyra, has come to see you, visit you? And he’s like, no, she says she texts me last week. And it’s interesting that she would have texted him last week in the document because she knew he was doing this documentary. Everything just feels very calculated. It feels like. We lost who Tyra was and she is like kind of a cog in the machine now. And she moves that way in her personal life on TV. Everything is a soundbite or a motive. It does. None of it feels authentic. And it’s really hard for me to I think a lot of people would do well with just like an authentic conversation and apology. We’ve yet to really get that from her.
Louis Virtel No, and also, again, I don’t think anything is really preventing her from saying so much of the show is awful in retrospect. Again, you’re right. The accountability isn’t there, even though she’s sort of gingerly approaching it.
Nina Parker Yeah, it’s kind of like, well, they just kept saying it was a sign of the times. And they’re not wrong. The early 2000s were crazy.
Louis Virtel Oh, no, every time I watch a music video from that time, it’s like you’re watching some young woman look terrible, you know, and like being propped up and being sexed out in such a crazy, I’ll call it maximalist way, you now, it was just unsubtle, you know.
Nina Parker But even, I will say, I felt trauma watching this because as a viewer who was, I was fully invested in the second season when Shandi was on the show in the 2nd cycle and we all thought she cheated on her boyfriend.
Louis Virtel Oh, yes. And by the way, I did not realize watching this that, like, it was sold to the viewer as she cheated as opposed to she was assaulted and doesn’t remember it.
Nina Parker A thousand percent. She was full, not only sexually assaulted, but also like they witnessed it and did not step in. And even now Ken Mock is like, well, we filmed it like a documentary. So we just don’t step in that is not okay. And it’s not a good enough. That’s not good enough. That’s a good, good enough excuse. And then to hear that she was slut shamed in the streets and by people for basically like years, this poor woman is just still beaten She can’t talk about it without crying. And then I feel, as a sense of watching the show for a decade, we thought this girl had cheated on her boyfriend and find out we witnessed the sexual assault and there’s still no accountability about that. I’m going to be honest, I was pretty livid watching that.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, I mean like the amount of like former contestants on this show who are interviewed here and by the way It’s actually telling who doesn’t even participate right? There’s like not a
Nina Parker Tiffany was like, baby, find me later. No, right. She did not even come back for this. I have heard though, that there is gonna be another documentary that comes out in March. I don’t think it’s with the same production company. It’s a different company that’s doing it that will be talking to other cast members that were not featured in this one. Oh, okay.
Louis Virtel Oh, okay. How very American gladiators. We got two different series, one had all the contestants, one didn’t. There’s a lot of content to cover. Yeah. Yeah. Tons of people. The amount of models on this show who are still clearly extremely upset by what happened on this I mean
Nina Parker I’m sorry to interrupt you. I’ve ran into a couple of these women just being in the industry, and I won’t say her name because I don’t know if she wants me to tell her story, but we were at an award show and we just happened to be standing next to each other and I was just telling her she had done something that I really enjoyed and I talking to her about it. And Tyra was also at the event. And so I said, oh, Tyra’s here and she was like, like, it still was, there was no love between how she felt about like, even now, years later, I mean, it has been over a decade since this woman had been on the show. And she’s had a very successful career, she still was like, uh-uh. Like she was not feeling tired of being there. She wasn’t feeling being around her. So it’s, there’s a lot of unresolved issues. And I’m always the thing of like, when they forgive you, I’ll forgive you. I say that about Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake. When Janet finally forgives Justin, so will I. And that’s how I kind of feel about it.
Louis Virtel Well, by the way, we mentioned Jay Manuel earlier, the series gets into how he eventually wants to quit the show around cycle eight, nine, and he writes this long heartfelt email to her. And you know, he was he’s there from the beginning, they had a great rapport once upon a time. And she just responds with I am disappointed and says nothing else. And then when they’re on set, they kind of cajole him to staying another year. And eventually he stays with the show in a different capacity for a few seasons. But then he’s sort of just cut off too. And like, when they ask her like, do you want to talk about Jay Manuel? And she won’t. It’s like, Tyra, did you just expect him to stay with the show? Like, you’re making 10 times the money he is. Why are you feeling betrayed by this?
Nina Parker And it’s just such a weird, there was like a clear power dynamic. I mean, even the fact that she commented on, you know, the Jays getting more recognized than her when they were in New York, she was joking, but you could tell she was serious. Like it affected her ego that like when they together and they got, you now, recognized and she didn’t, it was, you
Louis Virtel And also clearly that’s anomalous. You’re one of the most famous women in the world. Yeah.
Nina Parker Yeah. And I will say, I think a lot of people, because they’re seeing the state that there’s clearly been a lot evolving with Nigel, Ms. J and Mr. J, but I don’t want to erase the fact that they were complicit in a lot this too, because I think- Yes. A lot of are feeling sorry for Ms.J right now because of his current medical state. And I do think that is something that is sad and we should have compassion for, but at the same time, if you watch back these clips, they were all pretty awful to women in the comments and the fat shaming and I just think, you know, when I watch shows like this and they’re talking about women’s bodies and I’m like, what do you think 90% of your audience looks like? Who do you thinks watching the show is kind of crazy? I mean, they were calling a size six fat, like the amount of things that this did to young women’s brains who watch this show. I mean I can tell you how it affected me with size and my gap, right? So I can’t imagine like everybody. All the other women this affected like just how they felt about themselves. And I just think like there’s a lot of atoning that needs to happen. And right now I just feels like everybody’s passing the buck.
Louis Virtel Right. Also, by the way, I have to say it almost would have been smarter for certain people not to have taken part in this documentary because by the way, i would say Janis Dickinson almost skates by Scott Free in this. They show a couple of sound bites of her, but she’s not in the documentary. So I don’t know that they want to just get into what she brings to it, but I mean some of the most scathing and ridiculous comments I’ve ever seen on, excuse me, a television all together. And actually I’m going to include the internet.
Nina Parker Janice was, and you know, at the time, we all thought she was shocking. She came across almost like Howard Stern, like the shock doc, you know? And it was criticized at the time. But you know as time has gone on, it’s like Tyra has become a bigger villain than Janice, which is crazy because back then she was seen as the calm one. But then, you you know when you hear these things about like how Shandi went to Tyra’s talk show, and even then you know she asked Tyra not to play something. Tyra played it. Like Tyra is lost in the sauce and has been. For many, many years, and I don’t want to take away from what she has contributed to the world, but you know, I want people to know that two things can exist.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, that was very shocking to see. First of all, Tyra’s talk show has been kind of lost to time. Yeah. And that was one of one of those kind of like Meghan McCain on the view like situations where every week you would hear something utterly bizarre had occurred and but you would have to see it, you know, and that kind of creepy must-see TV way that feels now very, very retro.
Nina Parker And I think people forget how huge Tyra was back then, because I think time has passed and things have changed so fast. But Tyra, was everywhere. Let’s not forget she was acting. She was in several movies.
Louis Virtel Lifesize, oh yes.
Nina Parker Coyote Ugly, Higher Learning, Lovin’ Basketball. She was in movies, she was on magazines, she had this show, she huge. Beyonce went on the Tyra Banks show. Oh, I remember that interview. Everybody went on that, and that was.
Louis Virtel Speaking of Faye Dunaway and Network, who put that line of questioning together, where she says, here’s a bunch of questions, she rhymes with the word Beyonce with other things and then turns that into a question. This isn’t one of the questions, but she’s just like, you know, Flee-ance, have you been to a flea market?
Nina Parker And you know, it’s not for nothing, Tyra is a cornball.
Louis Virtel Yes, I guess
Nina Parker She’s corny! And that’s not a bad thing!
Louis Virtel And actually, that’s probably some of the best parts of America’s Next Top Model, like her corny little acting moments. Little acting moments.
Nina Parker Yeah, like she kind of, you know, awkward and corny. And so she really, you to have her snap into this other person, I don’t know which version of her I prefer. Neither probably, but you know it’s very shocking to watch.
Louis Virtel Okay, now Project Runway and American Idol, et cetera, all have a couple of winners who actually vaulted ahead in their industries. I don’t think America’s Next Top Model really ever had one person top up properly. Yeah, Winnie Harlow is as close as it gets.
Nina Parker Yeah, I would say Winnie, you know, Yaya is, I feel like, very active. And she acted a couple of times. Yeah, yeah. She’s fully has a really good career. And you know I think like Adrienne for a little while back then because she married one of the Brady Bunch guys.
Louis Virtel I watched my fair Brady. Are you talking about Joliet Illinois’s Adrian Curry?
Nina Parker That’s the one.
Louis Virtel Because I watched her on The Surreal Life and I watched on My Fair Brady. When I moved out here, my first boss goes, you know who you sound like? Adrian Curry.
Nina Parker Wow.
Louis Virtel And I realized she’s from the suburb next to me. I was like, damn!
Nina Parker Well done. I mean, I bet we’re forgetting somebody who was big, but those are who stand out to me. So it was almost, and they mentioned this in the film that like it kind of was if the show was to make this next big supermodel, the show was kind of a failure. Yeah. You know what was the most shocking to me after all of this? After all of these, Tyra promotes the next season, the next cycle. Oh no. It’s
Louis Virtel Just being like, it’s time for that, obviously. I thought I heard Michael Myers behind her. It’s time to the Nuremberg Trials. What are you talking about?
Nina Parker Of this. Girl who is watching this? Are you crazy doing a plug right now? No. We just talked about sexual assault and all these things and you’re plugging the negative. Wait for cycle 25 girl get out my face.
Louis Virtel And also with the same glassy stare, like more to come, like full Sunset Boulevard, like yes, we twist like a 25.
Nina Parker I don’t even think my conscience would let me watch the next, I don’t care what cycle, you could be cycle 100. I am not tuning in because I don’t know what this was to promote, especially if the same people are being involved in this next cycle, keep it.
Louis Virtel Yeah. No, no pun. I’m going to say, you know exactly where you are. I mean, I will say, to wrap this conversation up, I think something that America’s Next Top Model benefited from was never being prestige for a second. Right. Like a show like Project Runway had to figure out how to stay good and keep integrity. And even though like the network changed or whatever, like they were trying to keep like the integrity and the careerist nature of the show. Valid. Whereas this show was like not even close to Emmy consideration. So they’re just like, whatever, make the girl like jump through a hoop that’s on fire.
Nina Parker It’s like, let’s have the girls.
Louis Virtel Which races and ethnicities. We haven’t even touched on that.
Nina Parker Like, let’s put them in a big bowl of salad, like what is happening here?
Louis Virtel Excuse me. They had the girls switch races for one photo shoot and there’s some sort of reckoning at the time of how bizarre that is. And then they do it again eight cycles later or something. Eight cycles later! They’re like, we not only have we not learned, it’s a classic.
Nina Parker And then brought in the ethnicities of the children and had them pose with the kids. I’m like, are we bringing babies into this? This is outrageous. I don’t know when I clocked out of watching this show, but it was, pop culture-wise, it’s one of the most ridiculous things that has ever happened.
Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. No, I have to laugh though. Somebody, one of the commentators on the show said, Oh, I finally, you know, I stopped watching. It got really desperate near the end. Excuse me. It was never not desperate. It began on desperation. It’s the desperate housewife Tyra Banks.
Nina Parker And the poor girls were all basically like, I went back to Walgreens, I went like, you know, and the one thing I will say is probably the realest is how cold this industry is. Because if anybody is thinking about getting into entertainment, watch this, because it’s very real about how Hollywood is hot and cold and it will cut your head off and not wait for your body to drop. Like Hollywood is cold, you now? And I really want people to know that show business does not love you. And so if this is something you’re interested in, that show is a perfect, perfect example of how this industry can break your heart.
Louis Virtel It epitomizes it. Yes, it does. That’s kind of the most classic thing about this is like what happens to the contestants on this show is an age old story. It’s so true. But it still feels so vicious watching it.
Nina Parker Yeah, it’s cutthroat. But that’s, I’ve had stuff like that happen to me in this industry and, you know, I have seen people come and go. I’m sure you have too. Where it’s like, they’re like, I’m done. And there are some people who are just like, I have no desire to come back into that world. And some people just, you know, they keep going and they, you deal with the trauma. And I think- Or you don’t. Or you, or you don t, Tyra.
Louis Virtel Ha ha ha!
Nina Parker But, you know, I think rightfully so. I do think this is a rightful dragging of her and the end where she’s kind of blaming everybody and saying, like, I’ll take my dragging, but you be prepared to take yours because my moments were filmed and it’s like, she’s still diverting, like we are talking about you.
Louis Virtel And you ran the show, it was your idea. You keep taking charge of this idea, keep saying it was you’re idea, you know?
Nina Parker Yeah, it’s either was all your wasn’t you can’t you know, and I and I will say like I do think the networks are the biggest villains here I’m sure Oh, sure.
Louis Virtel No, cause we didn’t ever hear from their higher ups. No, of course not.
Nina Parker Of course not! No, because they’re about to do this another cycle!
Louis Virtel Right, the only higher up we really hear from is UPN head Dawn Ostrov, who was there at the beginning. But even she, I don’t feel like is answering the big questions here.
Nina Parker No, they’re all just kind of acting like it was someone else. It just, again, passing the buck, like, oh, it was the producers, it was the editors, it with the higher ups, it’s like, who was making these decisions?
Louis Virtel Right. We need answers. One of the higher ups we did not hear about in this show, co-creator of America’s Next Top Model, Kenya Barris. I had…
Nina Parker I have no idea about this.
Louis Virtel He’s not grown a shit at all. He made the show.
Nina Parker He’s not getting any flack for this, and you know, I’m like, it’s interesting no one’s mentioned his name in all of this. I had no idea.
Louis Virtel He’s extremely famous and extremely successful.
Nina Parker Yes, and he’s pretty much skated by without anybody posing any type of criticism to him I had no idea he has done a really good job of bearing that but now we know
Louis Virtel Yeah, well, I mean, I guess I have hopes for that other documentary coming out.
Nina Parker Yeah, I’m interested to see who’s going to be attached and who’s producing it because that matters a lot.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Nina Parker If it stays like this, where it feels more in the middle, I’m really inclined to watch. I’d probably watch any documentary on this right now.
Louis Virtel I guess I would too. I want to establish, when you’re watching this documentary, at first, you almost think Tyra’s producing it, and then as it goes on, you realize, oh wait, she has no control. So I mean, just enjoy the theatrical thrills of that.
Nina Parker It’s, it’s, in just watching her, it is really a master class in like denial.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right.
Nina Parker They mentioned Les Moonves though, which I thought was interesting.
Louis Virtel Yes. Oh no, and of course he’s one of the scariest people ever to live. We were just talking about Big Brother before the camera started rolling. And God, what a disease that continues to be that I have.
Nina Parker Listen, and I worked at CBS.
Louis Virtel Oh gosh, the price is wrong.
Nina Parker And I was definitely told I was too black.
Louis Virtel Yes
Nina Parker But that checks with, because I don’t know if it was a note from him, but it was definitely a note from someone in that sphere.
Louis Virtel Sounds like less to me. Less is more, shall we say.
Nina Parker Right, clearly, so when they brought him on, I was like, I’m getting PTSD all through this thing.
Louis Virtel Oh my God. Okay. Before we get even more PTSD, we’ll wrap this up and we’ll be back with more Keep It after this.
Louis Virtel [AD].
Louis Virtel And we’re back with the spiciest part of the episode. Let’s Keep It. Nina, what have you been thinking about?
Nina Parker I’ve been thinking about how I love to hate Love is Blind.
Louis Virtel Okay, yeah, I’ve only saw the first season of love is blind
Nina Parker Good for you.
Louis Virtel It’s good for you. Yeah.
Nina Parker I wish that was my case. I can’t watch the show anymore.
Louis Virtel It sounds like you’re going to watch it.
Nina Parker I am.
Louis Virtel Okay.
Nina Parker I hate that I love it. Even though now it’s just hate watching. There is a man on there who was clearly a biracial black man. Okay. His name is Devante.
Louis Virtel Okay, right, I’m there.
Nina Parker And he gets engaged to a Afro-Latina woman and he clearly only wants to be with white women. So he’s you know not into this woman and he’s basically saying he’s never dated a person of color before and I really need this man to look in the mirror. I cannot contribute to the mediocre men that they cast and they all seem to have the same haircut. Yeah interesting. It’s always the same look from these guys you know it just you know it’s actually a really good reflection of real life where you have these amazing women who were Getting attached to these men who are incredibly mediocre. And I just, I don’t want to watch anymore, but they suck me back in and I just I need it to stop. I need to just cut it off.
Louis Virtel Well, in this episode where we are reckoning with the sins of producers on these TV shows, I cannot figure out what the fuck these people are doing signing up for these shows. Again, Big Brother, I’m not saying that that’s not a terribly prestigious show, but you win a lot of money on that show. It’s about money. It’s about money.
Nina Parker At least there’s money. But these men who go on Love Is Blind, it’s like a dating app. They come on and they say they want a relationship and then they say, oh, I don’t know if I’m ready for this. And it’s, like, do you know what this show is about?
Louis Virtel Right.
Nina Parker Do y’all know it’s supposed to end in marriage?
Louis Virtel But I mean like literally are producers finding these people at like bars or are people, you know, because like they have to scout for these things sometimes or are they actually just taking applications because I cannot imagine taking a pen or going on the internet to sign up for this nonsense.
Nina Parker And I will have to say this season is set in Ohio, I will never go there.
Louis Virtel Oh, excuse me? I’m sorry, this dating pool. Ohio? Baby, listen. If I had to rank the Midwest states, it would come in fourth.
Nina Parker Right! I am so sorry to anybody listening from Ohio, but these men…
Louis Virtel You guys have the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I hear Columbus is lovely and otherwise stop it.
Nina Parker Yeah, there’s just no part of me that ever wants to go anywhere near there after watching the show. I am traumatized.
Louis Virtel No, I- HO-
Nina Parker How dare they? And you know, I’m hearing now that this guy told his ex-girlfriend like why he, and I don’t know if this is true, this is literally a TikTok story, but there’s a girl saying that he is, the ex is posting about like how he wasn’t into this girl solely based off the fact that she was a woman of color, even though he is the same thing. And he’s also threatening the ex now by saying like, if you post our messages, I’ll sue you. These are some of the worst people like when we watch every season as always there’s a story that comes out About remember this couple of seasons ago. The guy had a secret family, right? And he was like, oh, yeah The baby was just a donor baby and like a surrogate and like pathological liars are attracted to this show for whatever reason It’s really crazy But that’s why they keep getting me back.
Louis Virtel Right, no.
Nina Parker A part of it is I like to drag them.
Louis Virtel And also it’s like you do want a headquarters of crazy. You want to sign up and be like, here, I know six things are going to happen that are utterly objectionable.
Nina Parker But it also just makes you feel a little bit better about your dating life.
Louis Virtel Yeah, I guess.
Nina Parker Cause like, yeah, I’m single, but I am also not on Love is Blind.
Louis Virtel Right, waiting for the validation of somebody who’s like, potentially ready to reject me.
Nina Parker And by the way, everybody they cast, they are the most superficial people you will ever meet.
Louis Virtel Oh yeah.
Nina Parker So these are all people who care so much about looks. Why would you go on the show? It makes no sense.
Louis Virtel No, I find that they don’t have many Nobel laureates on the show. They don’t tend to sign up like Linus Pauling is not on the show.
Nina Parker Exactly, you know, I have to say we this this is just such a litmus test for the real world It is a reflection of what the dating world looks like. Yeah, and the dating pool has pee in it
Louis Virtel That’s what it is. Tinder is dangerous, I agree. It’s a little yellow in that way, I agreed. Yes, a thousand percent. My keep it this week. I wanna say positively, first of all, that the Muppet Show revival that just happened with Sabrina Carpenter as guest star, I was about to say guest host, but she’s really a guest star in the show, perfectly delightful. What do you feel about the Mupets, period?
Nina Parker Fun fact, I am a huge Muppets fan. Oh really? Another fun fact, I was actually in the reboot with Lilly Singh. Oh yes. And they cut my character.
Louis Virtel Oh, get the fuck out.
Nina Parker But I was in one episode.
Louis Virtel Do you think Fozzie made that call? He said, Waka Waka, you’re out, bitch.
Nina Parker Oh, I definitely know it was him or Gonzo that just kind of did me dirty, but it was such a fun day on set. I am a huge Muppet fan since a kid. I used to watch the cartoons, the shows, like everything Muppets. So I am excited for this.
Louis Virtel Yeah, I will say I’m not somebody who craves the Muppets coming back to me when the Muppet show of the 70s The reason that is so perfect is that not only are the Muppets really popular then obviously Sesame Street was a phenomenon by that time But also it’s coming off the heels of the variety show phenomenon Like the entire 1970s is you know variety start like the Carol Burnettification of television of television And so when people would go on the Muppet show they would get to act like a variety star, but also kind of make fun of it. So it was just the perfect time and place for all of that. That said, I’m excited for them to be back. It’s this one-off show. I feel strange judging the success of this show, this particular episode, because Sabrina Carpenter is one of the few 2026 celebrities who belongs with Muppets. You know, it’s like, she’s got the like, you know, it’s a sexy getup, but it’s pure character. It’s like Miss Piggy, and she compares herself to Miss Pig-Piggy favorably throughout the episode. My keep it though, and you already said his motherfucking name, is to Gonzo, who comes on the screen hard as hell, and he says, he’s gonna do one of his stunts like Evil Knievel, and he said while he does it, he’s going to name every best supporting actress winner in history. Honey, they did not come to me for one second to get a packet of material for the show. I was available. I live in West Hollywood. You could have delivered the script to my home. Excuse me. What else am I doing? But saying the name’s the best supporting actress is over and over.
Nina Parker How am I not Gonzo? I’m Gonzo right now. This is the most riled up I’ve seen you.
Louis Virtel Watch me. I felt like jumping off a ramp and yelling Lupita Nyong’o or whatever Gonzo does in this episode. I can name em forward, backward, sideways. Name a year. What was it?
Nina Parker My favorite year. 1998.
Louis Virtel 1998, you mean when Judy Dench won for her five-minute performance in Shakespeare in Love? You mean when she beat Brenda Blathin in Little Voice? Name another year.
Nina Parker 97.
Louis Virtel 97 when Kim Basinger, one of the worst winners in the category, beat Julianne Moore, Minnie Driver, Gloria Stewart, and somebody else. I’m forgetting. Anyway, that’s most of them.
Nina Parker Oh my goodness, look at this, this is incredible.
Louis Virtel All I do is this. I just said I’ve never seen my gimmick exploited without me.
Nina Parker How dare they. How dare they.
Louis Virtel And also as you can see I have the passion of so many generations of true faggots in me and it came out.
Nina Parker You are.
Louis Virtel Watching this Gonzo
Nina Parker I! You know I!
Louis Virtel Who I thought was an ally with his outfits.
Nina Parker You know, we’ve talked about deaths today, and I have not seen you this worked up.
Louis Virtel No, right.
Nina Parker But Gonzo, damn it.
Louis Virtel I’m, right, Robert Duvall anger, nope, Gonzo anger, yeah.
Nina Parker That damn nose.
Louis Virtel So upsetting. Yeah, right it begins there. It begins there.
Nina Parker How dare you.
Louis Virtel Oh my God, who’s your favorite Muppet?
Nina Parker Um, probably Miss Piggy.
Louis Virtel I do have to say she is deeply one-of-a-kind.
Nina Parker I do love Janice though.
Louis Virtel Oh, the look of Janice.
Nina Parker Janice. Baby, Janice looks like she just smoked the fattest joint. Okay? And she always chillin’. She’s like, hey man, you know, like I do love it. I do love a Janice.
Louis Virtel I do think Miss Piggy gets the best jokes and also whoever is doing her voice now is doing a really good job.
Nina Parker Doing a great job and good at improv.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Nina Parker Um, animal is my least favorite.
Louis Virtel It’s too much.
Nina Parker It’s too much. It’s like, take a Xanax.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Nina Parker You know?
Louis Virtel My favorite of all time is Guy Smiley, the game show host, because they just for some reason decided to lampoon the sliminess of game show hosts in the 70s and 80s and I’m like, love it, love sleaze.
Nina Parker Or the two old Republicans.
Louis Virtel Stoutland-Waldorf, or are they gay?
Nina Parker Ooh! Are they? That’s a good question.
Louis Virtel I mean, the vibe is very no coward and his lover.
Nina Parker I’ve never heard this take. I actually love it.
Louis Virtel I mean, they’re literally just sitting in a balcony all day.
Nina Parker And they are reading people left and right
Louis Virtel Right, and they’re like, you know, they just got back from Sardis. They’re like oh, Carol Channing would not leave us the fuck alone.
Nina Parker It’s so true!
Louis Virtel No, love them up. It’s love that they’re back. So pissed at them.
Nina Parker Yes. And you know what you did. You guys need to make it right.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right.
Nina Parker Make it right! I’m-
Louis Virtel I’m right here. Yeah. Waka Waka. I’m here. Nina, thank you so much once again for being here. Where can we find you in the world if we want to read your musings?
Nina Parker Just go to any platform and put in the Nina Parker and you’ll find me more than likely talking about love is blind.
Louis Virtel Okay, I also just want to agree with your handle. You are the Nina Parker. So many people don’t own the the in their name, but you really need it.
Nina Parker You know, I wanted Nina, but Nina Dobrev took it, so. Oh, and she’s just at Nina? She’s just Nina, which pisses me off. And then this mom of like five has Nina Parker. So I could, you know, I’ve been messaging her for three years and she won’t respond to me.
Louis Virtel Is Nina Dobrev still our, like, reigning pop culture Nina?
Nina Parker Not in my book
Louis Virtel I-I-I have to disagree!
Nina Parker I think I think the fuck not
Louis Virtel No, it’s not right.
Nina Parker I think she should give it to me. She should be Nina Dobrev.
Louis Virtel It’s a fun name, yeah!
Nina Parker Yeah, but no, she gets to be Nina, I will be Thee Nina. Okay. You know, it’s fine.
Louis Virtel Alright, alright. I hope you enjoyed this utterly angry episode that has riled me and changed my spiritual life. I barely survived it.
Nina Parker I feel better though!
Louis Virtel Me too!
Nina Parker I actually feel great!
Louis Virtel My skin’s a little clearer.
Nina Parker No, listen, I was going to say your skin is kind of popping.
Louis Virtel Oh, thank you.
Nina Parker Yeah.
Louis Virtel Snowy I call that.
Nina Parker Snow Caps.
Louis Virtel Yeah, we will be back next week with more Keep It. We will see you then. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath, and our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jerik Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
