TRANSCRIPT

 

Ira Madison III And we are back for an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel and I do not like taking weeks off. I have too much to say. And then eventually you’re kind of like, do those takes expire? What happened to those? Like, I ate a bunch of food over Thanksgiving and then my fervor for that kind of went away. I’m just dead into society and pop culture right now.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I was in I went up to the Hamptons with some friends for Thanksgiving, and I was there from Tuesday through the weekend. But I don’t know, somehow it felt not long enough and also too long. I don’t like the weird time that happens in Thanksgiving, especially when everyone’s off is so weird because I feel like there’s still there’s still people doing a lot of things, like social media still feels like there’s an influx of people doing things. People are still sending you emails kind of because no one really treats Thanksgiving as, you know, a time off.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And I think about what I actually did do over this time besides play games with friends for like 36 hours straight, which of course devolved into Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf like arguments every other fucking second because I was involved. But you know what I did do? Started watching primetime game shows. Have you seen this show? The Floor?

 

Ira Madison III I think I’ve heard of it.

 

Louis Virtel You have heard of the floor? Okay. It’s this game show hosted by Rob Lowe, and it’s 100 people on a grid and they all have a specialty subject. And a randomizer chooses who plays somebody on the grid, must challenge somebody next to them, and they have a specialty topic and they go, quote unquote, head to head on this topic where images appear on a screen and they both have a time clock. And let’s say the category is on the farm. They go back and forth identifying pictures having to do with the farm. It can be as basic as a pitchfork or a horse. Maybe it gets a little harder, maybe it doesn’t. But one person wins, one person loses. And eventually, after this entire season is complete, 99 battles are done and one person walks away with $250,000. Rarely on this show is there hard trivia. Sometimes there is. If you get into like old pop culture, like, you know, the stuff we are into. But it is weirdly addicting to watch people just identify things like Barn. Why? Why it’s upsetting.

 

Ira Madison III Pitchfork.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s it is such a fun game to watch because it’s it’s soothing in a way to, you know, see these things and identify them like they’re easily identifiable. It is very for the masses, you know, the show. But the consequences are wild because they’re quote unquote hard but very much a. Easy, Paul, for like you and I.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Though it’s one of those things where you’re on the spot and you’re, you know, if you put a picture up in front of me of I don’t know, this is just who’s coming to mind. Ginger Rogers. I think there was a that was on the last season and I might stumble for a couple of seconds or something. And you know, you just want to answer efficiently so that your time doesn’t run out. You don’t get eliminated. It just takes losing one time before you’re out of the running for $250,000. But just the sheer. Doing anything with urgency makes it a good show. And I do have to say, I’m I’m kind of proud of this show for solving a problem I’ve had trying to develop my own game shows, which is you want to have fast paced trivia that feels like something other than just someone reading questions quickly. And there’s no question reading on this show, it’s just identifying pictures. So that’s kind of a fun solve, you know, it’s like it’s hard to develop a fast paced game show that doesn’t feel like Jeopardy, basically.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I will say that one of my favorite aspects of watching the floor is unfortunately watching white people try to identify black celebrities. And so on.

 

Louis Virtel I know they will be like, I think there was one on like female athletes and they were just at sea, you know, just like Coco Gauff. You may as well put like a theory of relativity up in front of them.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, there was a bovet, I think from this season that went viral and it was of these two people identify sitcoms and black ish came up and the white woman who had to identify it right completely blank And then the camera cuts to one of the black contestants on the floor who, just like Jim Halpert, stares into the camera like, Are you kidding me?

 

Louis Virtel That is very funny. Also, speaking of game shows, debuting today is a game show I worked on, wrote on all summer called Pop Culture. Jeopardy! Debuts on Amazon Prime Video. It’s hosted by Colin Jost, Saturday Night Live’s own Mr. Johanson, as I call him. Same exact site as Jeopardy! Filmed in Culver City, right next door to where the Wizard of Oz is filmed. This is, of course, the game show I always dreamed I would work on where you’re getting questions on everything from old pop culture to new, though it does weigh much more now. And also ready for the show made me realize that the definition of pop culture is so different than when it was when we grew up, when we would really be held responsible for knowing anything new and old. Now there’s so much material coming at like people from all directions YouTube, television, movies, music, whatever, that really just understanding the current moment and everything within it is huge enough for a game show. So just be aware of that. I hope you’re caught up in everything, including fucking YouTubers, because believe me, I was. I was drawing blanks, reading some of those questions.

 

Ira Madison III You know, I’m going to watch it, you know, not just because you wrote on it and because I love pop culture, but, you know, I’m a bit of a Joe slur, if you will.

 

Louis Virtel He is great on this show. Is perfect for it.

 

Ira Madison III I can’t help it.

 

Louis Virtel It is weird that he’s been on Weekend Update for like 125 years, though. He’s like a national institution. He’s like literally Walter Cronkite now.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m I’m excited for that show and I’m excited for the floor. They announced that season three is debuting after the Super Bowl.

 

Louis Virtel It’s coming right up. Jesus Christ. Because they’re still in the middle of the current season. I thought I was watching an old season only to realize that they haven’t gotten to the end of it yet.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Do you know they shoot that show in Ireland?

 

Louis Virtel Actually, plenty of these shows, I think. Name that. Two of them. The one with Randy Jackson and Jane Krakowski has shoot previously in Australia, maybe now in Ireland, and it has something to do with rights issues.

 

Ira Madison III Same studio.

 

Louis Virtel Really?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, same studio, yeah. Shoots in Ireland where I visited for my birthday.

 

Louis Virtel That’s right. A couple months ago.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I wonder if that has anything to do with the floor. Anyway, we’re we’re back. We have a great episode this week. We have, first of all, Mark-paul Gosselaar.

 

Louis Virtel Whom we just talked to. I had no sense of him as a person before, so chill. Congrats on being a former child star who seems rad to hang out with.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Zack Morris, I love you. And we’re going to talk about his new show Found, which is on NBC. And I am obsessed with this show.

 

Louis Virtel I really stands the show and the energy between you and Mark-paul gosselaar I found uncomfortable also.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, you’ve been waiting. We had Thanksgiving off, but you will finally get to hear what Lewis and I think of Wicked.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. It’s a movie musical. It’s bringing back the musical. A certain people say.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I don’t I don’t think the musical really laughed. But you know.

 

Louis Virtel The fagots around me certainly keep singing.

 

Ira Madison III That’s because none of them saw West Side Story.

 

Louis Virtel You know what this is on that, which was a great movie and every performance and it was good. There was not one bad performance in it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And we’ll also talk a bit about Gladiator two.

 

Louis Virtel Or as I call it, shark Nero.

 

Ira Madison III The sharks did kind of take me out. I was like, all right, we’re going.

 

Louis Virtel There. This the floor is lava shit. Okay. Yeah. And then.

 

Ira Madison III Also, the girls are fighting because Billboard released their 25 best pop stars of the 21st Century list, and one and two have sent the Internet into shambles.

 

Louis Virtel They’ve been releasing this list over time for a long time now. They did it one at a time. And I wanted and the reason they did that is they wanted it to be as painful as possible for us. Once we got to this moment. But now that we have the whole list, we can get properly angry.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So we’ll be right back with more. Keep it.

 

Louis Virtel Every week I look forward to walking into the studio and unloading all of my pedantic though correct opinions on the latest pop culture. And now that it’s award season, I’m just bursting with takes that cannot be contained by this podcast. Luckily, that’s what my producers tell me YouTube is for. We just dropped a new episode of my YouTube exclusive series, Trophy Strife, where I count down the ten best Oscar wins of the 90s. Part one is officially out, as are several more videos where I waxed chaotic about all the awards snubs that keep me up at night. Annette Bening. We invoke your name.

 

Ira Madison III And while you’re there watching Louis tweak for Marisa Tomei, make sure to subscribe to our channel for a whole slate of exclusive YouTube content and the video version of this podcast because you have an experience. Keep it until you see the face I make. Whatever Louis says. Ruth Negga.

 

Louis Virtel I just did a sign of a cross search. Keep it on your nearest YouTube search bar, then hit Subscribe.

 

Ira Madison III Keep. It is always dark when we’re needed most. And that was true last week when both Wicked and Gladiator two hit theaters. It wasn’t another bar Bernheimer, but Louis and I are still holding space for the big release weekend. Wicked wild press run and what this all means for awards season. And you know, I did actually see you both over the release weekend because I had already seen Gladiator two, but I wanted to see it again, mostly for Denzel. And I had a Gallic Italy fun time.

 

Louis Virtel Did you? That wasn’t the creator’s intention. You shouldn’t have.

 

Ira Madison III Just be using by John Travolta an accent, you know. Right. The wickedly talented Adele Dazeem.. Let’s get into Wicked first.

 

Louis Virtel Sure.

 

Ira Madison III Louis, you already sent me a text about your feelings about this film.

 

Louis Virtel I won’t say I hated it, but I did feel it underwhelmed. Almost in every single way. I’ll start with what I liked. Jonathan Bailey. Fantastic to me. He had what we used to call him the biz pizzazz. I feel like smoking gold. Rosalind Russell leaning in and telling you what I love about show business. But his big song.

 

Ira Madison III Dancing through Life.

 

Louis Virtel Dancing through Life. I thought that was the best staged part of Wicked. And I think the thing I like most about it was it was an ensemble number, which I felt that this musical largely lacked. We had a lot of Cynthia walking through Fields to sing a song, Arianna up by herself in a room, even like when they do Popular together. That didn’t feel particularly dynamic to me. I think a lot of people have criticized the look of this movie, which to me, we had walked right back into the Wonka CD-Rom, CGI Universe, and also just the general vibe of the movie from like the oversaturated colors in the beginning through the like, big explosion that brings us all together at the end felt to me kind of like a marvel movie. I didn’t live for that. Ariana Grande, I do think is really funny. Throughout the movie, she gets consistent laughs. I would also argue it was the same laugh we got again and again. I’m happy for this movie to sort of torpedo the Oscar race because it’s a big hit. It’s the only huge what we have. Amelia Perez But it’s this blockbuster musical that’s, you know, everybody seems.

 

Ira Madison III To be You have Emilio Perez.

 

Speaker 3 Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I thought it was great. I love Emilia Perez, but I did feel that the best parts of Ariana Grande, his performance were more homage than character actress gold. And I felt like she was kind of cosplaying the part of a character actress and not really giving us the quirks and weirdo personality traits that make roles like this fabulous. If you watched the original Wizard of Oz, I always talk about it’s one of the few classic movies where everybody is a character actor and they are all fucking weird. Like Bulger is weird. Bert fucking Billie Burke as Glenda, she opens her mouth and it’s she’s got this quirky lilt to her voice. But at the same time, we’re living in this fantasy world, and you’re kind of thinking, you know, Dorothy is thinking, am I in the right place? You’re weird, lady. And nothing really felt weird about this movie. I was waiting for the risk taking that I thought would elevate it to another place. That said Cynthia. I thought she waited a little too long to explode in the part, but I loved her arresting angst as Elphaba. I find that to be a bit of an underrated part of this movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I loved the film. I had problems with it, but I overall really did enjoy this film. I enjoyed Ariana Grande Day. I agree with you that, you know, she was she took a bit to settle into the laughs. I kind of really enjoyed her more when she slipped into who Ariana Grande used to be. You remember, like I like when she, you know, gets a little ghetto, you know, we like, like Ariana Grande did, you know. And when she plays that version of herself, instead of, you know, doing a bit of a Kristin Chenoweth that I really enjoyed, you know, I loved Cynthia Erivo. I thought that she was amazing. I do think that it took a while for her to wrap up in the role, but that’s also by necessity because, you know, there’s just a lot of sad shit happening to Elphaba throughout the entire film, you know? And I really think that Wicked part two is going to sure already, like have hit the ground running for that one, you know? But the movie’s a little bit too long and I love this musical. I listened to the cast recording probably once a week before this movie had even come out. And so I don’t have a problem with sitting with holding space for Wicked. Like I could watch it for hours on repeat. But getting through the three hours of the initial version of it, you’re just sort of like, Wow, we could have made some cuts here. And I, as I do when listening to the cast recording, definitely took a bathroom break during A Sentimental Man because I hate that song. And you know what? I’m just going to say it. I want to show your Oscar back.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. A full Riverwalk.

 

Ira Madison III Sorry. That is maybe one of the worst performances of the year. She was horribly miscast. I will just say I love Michelle Yeoh. We interviewed Michelle Yeoh. She was fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel She’s a brilliant person. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I believe that she actually deserved that Oscar for everything. Everywhere. All at once. I thought she was magnificent in that. But I don’t know. There’s just something so. Regal about her as an actress. And that works, you know, and like a Crouching Tiger, hidden dragon sort of universe. But for this, you know, Madame Marble’s underhanded ness, her surreptitious evilness is just sort of. I didn’t feel it at all. And two moments that really took me out of it were one, those vocals and The Wizard and I.

 

Louis Virtel They really set her up for failure there. It’s like, What are you supposed to do? Become a really good singer in.

 

Ira Madison III Front of Cynthia Erivo, too?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And then the ends, like, how do you fumble the lie? This wicked witch like her talking to the monkeys? I was like, I know that they’re all CGI. So she was probably talking to a wall and like a box of McNuggets from McDonald’s and pretending that they were monkeys. But. Wow.

 

Louis Virtel I think it’s like, you know, I’m sympathetic to casting her because it seems like a role with the imperiousness of it that she would naturally slip into. But the fact of the matter is, she is not camp. No. Like, you know, she’s like she’s a serious person and actress. And, you know, I think that was kind of what people consider the fun part of everything everywhere all at once, is that this sort of serious person is thrown into a comic book universe. Whereas here she’s kind of supposed to direct some of the, you know, the Disney ish villain rancor. And yeah, she just felt tentative. And you don’t want her to feel tentative as somebody who’s generally so powerful onscreen. It was weird to see. Unfortunately, she didn’t seem like herself.

 

Ira Madison III And she’s like, Madam Horrible is supposed to be like she’s a teacher. She’s a mother, you know? And you should feel that warmth a bit at first before the rug is pulled out from under you. And, you know, I thought a missed opportunity in casting someone. And I guess that she couldn’t really be in this film because of Abbott Elementary. But Sheryl Lee Ralph has played memorable on Broadway and like, wow, would she have been so much better in that role?

 

Louis Virtel It’s one of those things, too, where it’s extra painful that Michelle Yeoh is bad because you immediately think of people who would belong in the role. Like I heard Sheryl Lee Ralph a lot, Hannah, Waddingham, you know, just people who naturally look like they belong on the fucking Candy Land board, you know?

 

Ira Madison III And camp is correct. I mean, Sheryl Lee Ralph is funny in interviews. Michelle Yeoh is just she’s not a funny person. There is an interview, I think, with Letterboxd, which her and Jeff Goldblum, who also had it bad, but sort of was able to play it off because he was acting while singing. And thankfully the part where the Wizard is supposed to dance was put behind a screen. So it was clearly not him dancing.

 

Louis Virtel Don’t look clearly at that.

 

Ira Madison III It was not him dancing. But there was a letter box interview where they were supposed to guest the movie that people were reviewing based on the review of theirs classic films. And obviously Jeff Goldblum’s was the Fly and hers was, you know, someone had written some movie for you to watch, you know, with an evening gown and like a glass of champagne or something. And she couldn’t guess what movie it was. I’m like, first of all, obviously it’s crazy Rich Asians and like, but any of her movies could sort of be like that if you make that joke about it. And she just seemed sort of like lost in the interview. And I’m like, she’s just not an off the cuff, can’t be funny, goofy person, which is fine. She’s funny in other ways. And like I said, she’s very regal, but it just doesn’t work for Madame Marble.

 

Louis Virtel No, no, no, no. I will also, it’s like, let me just say something about Jeff Goldblum. I think we’ve heard enough. I don’t know that I need to see that same or hear that same inflection for the 50th time, like we were supposed to be out and about this visit to the Wizard. And then we get there. Jesus Christ, Are we standing around a long time looking at your model train site or wherever we’re doing? my God, That had to be one of the parts where they definitely could have cut something.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, I actually watched the fly for the first time in years, probably since it was just on TV as a kid. And I forgot how fantastic he is in that movie. And like, the gross special effects of it are fantastic too, because Cronenberg is doing Cronenberg is doing mainstream Cronenberg. And so it’s actually I can see people being grossed out by it, but I actually wasn’t really grossed out at all by the fly, to be honest. Like, you could tell the effects, and it made me sort of miss that old Jeff Goldblum. I feel like Jeff Goldblum has sort of sort of gone the route of Nicolas Cage. You know, they’re just sort of. He’s Jeff Goldblum now.

 

Louis Virtel It’s very hyper self-aware. And you cast him in the role being like, Here he goes doing his little shtick again. You know, it’s like when you in a way, it’s sort of like when you kept casting Robin Williams to do the same shtick. And again and again it’s like, well, now I’m just sidetracked watching this thing I’ve seen before.

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of who would have been great and I don’t want to spoil people for this movie, but I just saw Willem Dafoe in Nosferatu.

 

Louis Virtel I cannot wait to see this movie.

 

Ira Madison III One of the best fucking movies of the year. Absolutely. Robert Eggers does it again. Northman level. Amazing. It’s sick. It’s crazy, it’s spooky, it’s unsettling. But Willem Dafoe is a person who, you know, just like in Poor things can play those sort of weird characters and still feel like Willem Dafoe, but not like he’s just doing a caricature of himself, you know?

 

Louis Virtel I think that’s a good comparison because it never feels like a retread, even though you’re aware he can do weird characterizations and he’s going to do weird characterization. So. And I hear Lily-Rose Depp is really good in this, too. By the way, she was good on the idol. She was really good on the idol.

 

Ira Madison III She turns it out.

 

Louis Virtel I’m so excited to see it. But back to this. Do you know who I think found to be very underrated and Wicked? Ethan Slater. To me, his energy is what the movie needed more of which is this is a genuine Broadway weirdo. You cannot tell me this man doesn’t fling himself out of bed and land in the splits every day. You know, like quirky, quirky, quirky and like, lives and the quirk and has the hair of quirk and just belongs in Oz. Everybody else felt sort of like they were kind of detouring into a fairy tale universe and didn’t necessarily live in one, which is I even kind of feel that way about Ariana Grande, which is crazy because she has plotted this move in her career since she was like six years old or something. It sounds like she would show up at Kristin Chenoweth door and being like, I’m going to be you someday.

 

Ira Madison III She and Kristin are very Death Becomes Her.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. By the way, Kristin and Adina, of course, make a cameo in this movie. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anybody. I don’t think I’m spoiling anything. When they started being funny, I kind of was like, that’s what funny sounds like.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Again, Kristin Chenoweth is obsessed with Madeline Kahn, and for good reason.

 

Ira Madison III Her dog was named Madeline Kahn.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, Everything about her is, like, oriented around. I’m a I’m a woman who is uptight and I’m about to lose my fucking mind. Like, you know, that’s her whole energy. She lives in the character actor zone. I needed more people to live in the character actors. I’m sorry to be repetitive now.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, listen, I loved it. Slater. It. It it felt like while I don’t remember back being in that many scenes, but, you know, I’m glad he was elevated. Yeah. And in the movie and, you know, with all the talk about Ariana Grande, they dating Ethan Slater, you know, it it makes sense when you watch the movie. And I think maybe that was the thing, you know, people hadn’t been introduced Ethan Slater is that people who had seen him on Broadway, being that sponge.

 

Louis Virtel Being that sponge

 

Ira Madison III And, you know, he’s like he’s charismatic in the movie. He’s funny. And, you know, I think we have a long history of, you know, funny and talented women falling for the charismatic, funny actor, you know, like Elliott Gould. Love you know.

 

Louis Virtel No, I think of Geena Davis and Jeff Goldblum. I mean, right there, who are reunited at the SAG Awards a couple of years ago.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And so there’s that. I thought that Bowen was very funny.

 

Louis Virtel I also like how they kind of used him to. First of all, his look was fantastic. He plays this character named Fanny, but he he would chime in with a little one liner generally after Arianna said something. And also as he was sort of shuffling out of the room. So you’re like barely caught it in earshot as he laughed was funny.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Going back to what you said about Idina menzel and Kristin Chenoweth, though, that energy that they had and maybe that energy that they developed for years of, you know, having done Wicked before and knowing each other. But you know, with the holding space of it all and this, you know, overblown press tour that’s been fun and campy and unintentionally funny. But I really think that what we were missing in this movie was just like a sense of rivalry between them. You know, I get that, you know, they love each other and they were so happy to make this movie together. I’m like, Great. Okay. Like during loading, I really did not get that these bitches hated each other.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think also just the Glenda played the same note of like, I’m ingratiating the same way like several times throughout the movie. But again, I think this is more a testament to the fact that the movie is a little overlong. Like they could have just cut certain things out, you know? But again, Jonathan Bailey, I’m signed on to that now. I mean, his energy, I was just Are you talking about him? He, to me reminds me of like the other person in old pictures of Tab Hunter who’s like living with him in Palm Springs. And he’s just unconfirmed bachelor friend, but there’s like something nefarious about him and classic all-American good looks. He just he feels like both a throwback and. Perfectly 2024, because normally this would be like a closeted guy who was doing musical roles, but now he’s out. It’s like, finally we arrived. The future, the present, wherever a.

 

Ira Madison III Real long time companion. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a movie that said every gay person’s lips, Please, let’s keep revisiting that.

 

Ira Madison III I watched that over Thanksgiving, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Mary-Louise Parker, who comes up in our interview with Mark-paul Gosselaar.

 

Ira Madison III Mary-Louise Parker in that movie The day we interview her. I’m going to have some questions because the specter of Aids and longtime companion is not nearly as scary as whatever they do to Mary Louise Parker’s hair in each scene. If you do not know longtime companion, it is a Aids melodrama that takes place sort of from like the end of the 80s into the 90s. And each section of the film takes place a year later, and each time she shows up, her hair is looking wild as fuck. Okay. But it’s a really fun movie, I would say also because it also takes place on Fire Island and it also takes place on the set of a soap opera where two gay characters who are part of the friend group are playing. The first gay kiss that happens on that soap opera. It’s weird to watch because I would just say the like and even the intimacy in scenes. Like there’s a scene where someone comes home from work and is like putting clothes away in the closet and their boyfriend, like, kisses them while they’re doing that. It’s just it feels intimate in a way that we don’t even see in gay films anymore. I feel like everything has become sensationalized where it’s like, this is a gay kiss, you know? And now even I think of Jonathan Bailey, where you see a series like Fellow Travelers, you know, that is it’s sexy. But the whole point of it is, you know, that it’s like it’s sexy and it’s kinky, you know? And I think that we’ve just lost all of that fun intimacy that real gay like indie films used to have, you know, like in the 80s and 90s, you know?

 

Louis Virtel What is with Mary-Louise Parker being in all these very serious gay things she was in this year and Angels in America and she was in rise like she’s just but she was there for gay history.

 

Ira Madison III I guess she is the angel.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. God, she was so fucking good. And Angels in America. That might be one of the best TV movie performances of all time.

 

Ira Madison III Lastly, I want to say about Wicked. The movie is rated PG. And so this is a movie for all ages. You know, it’s not an adult movie. You know, I’m not going to say it’s a movie for kids, but largely it is for younger people, you know? And that’s why there’s so much with young Elphaba in it. And even that crazy scene in Defying Gravity, where she’s looking at young Elphaba as she’s falling down about do that I was like enough. But there have been some very wild takes about wicked coming out of this and I get that Cynthia Erivo is black. But this movie is not about race. Okay. Like she’s a black actor and like, I think it’s just happenstance. I mean, the amount of takes that are like being written by grown people coming out of this where, like, this is about like, otherness and, you know, like blackness and etc.. And I’m just like, it is the most based take that you’ve ever seen about otherness. I mean, like, yeah, I get it. She’s green, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right.

 

Ira Madison III And I just think that, like, let’s be adults here and like, this is like, this is it, is it some like treatise, you know, about like, it meant a lot more because Cynthia Erivo is black. I’m like, No, it doesn’t. She’s green.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, you’re right. She literally is just not black in this movie. So it’s just not about that. I don’t think it’s applicable. By the way, though, should we take a moment to hold space for that particular meme that occurred over our Thanksgiving break? Journalist Tracy Gilchrist, who I followed for years.

 

Ira Madison III I love Tracy. She’s a keep it listener, by the way, because I used to run into her in L.A. all the time. And she always had such lovely things to say about us.

 

Louis Virtel I myself am in queer media, as she announced during that interview. If you didn’t see this and if you didn’t, there’s no way you listen to this podcast because it was everywhere. But she was interviewing Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo and said that people are holding space for the lyrics of Defying Gravity. I guess saying people are really thinking about the lyrics and it’s really resonating with them. Cynthia then responded to that with I didn’t know people were doing that, and it was this summer. It was like Jamie Lloyd was directing her in A Doll’s House. You had to like, lean in to hear it. And the I think the thing that really has stood out about this is just. It was like everybody was confused by each other and then didn’t know what to say. And the conversation was just weird more than anybody was being pretentious or full of shit or anything. You know, I think. And then in an interview, Tracy Gilchrist said her reaction surprised me. She thought she was going to just be delighted and instead the conversation slowed into I didn’t know.

 

Ira Madison III I didn’t know that I that’s that’s that’s exactly what I wanted.

 

Louis Virtel Also, Cynthia Erivo. Cynthia Erivo, clearly we were just talking about Michelle Yeoh clearly does not really know how to like play ball and it can’t be way like this is kind of a serious actress girl, right?

 

Ira Madison III She’s learning.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I think we saw the bit of that where she was upset about the eye, a bar, and then later on a red carpet interview, she was like, Yeah, I probably should have just texted some friends about that now.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Okay. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III That’s simple. She is learning. And I think it’s understandable because coming from the world of Broadway, the people who are like that on Broadway, you just sort of let them be like that. And it’s whatever, you know, those things aren’t going to get broadcast everywhere, you know, like it’s she’s, she’s so theater that you’re just like, okay, girl.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. You move on, you know? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Anyway, we should get into Gladiator now while we have some.

 

Ira Madison III Time talking about theater. Her gladiator two I saw twice. And I saw this movie twice. Purely because of Denzel motherfucking Washington.

 

Louis Virtel Now, I’ll say this. I do think he’s the best part of the movie. Honestly, Ira, I think he could have gone bigger. I think the movie was sort of lacking in huge characters. Like, I think if you didn’t know the original Gladiator, you would be somewhat surprised. This was associated with a Best Picture winning film. Other than it is obviously spectacular to look at. I mean, it feels like you’re really there. And Paul Mescal has been getting a little bit of shit for this performance. I have a friend who said it’s an indie sized performance in a, you know, a gigantic spectacle. I thought he acquitted himself pretty well. I thought it was a pretty good performance sometimes maybe a little low key, like not as angrily commanding as someone like Russell Crowe, who again, it remains mind boggling that he would win an Oscar for a movie like this. But I liked Paul, and I did not like Pedro Pascal. I mean, I would easily just recast that.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, they didn’t give him anything to do.

 

Louis Virtel No, he did. And he’s like the second billed person in the movie. Connie Nielsen. Not bad. Enjoyed her.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I would actually say that I agree that Denzel could have gone bigger. I mean, the fact that his scene where he’s kissing someone, he talks about he kissed a man in the movie is cut. I think that sort of goes to tell that maybe he did bigger swings in the movie. And I just think that, like, Ridley Scott edited them down to make it into the movie. He did. Imagine Ridley Scott editing anything down, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, you’re you’re talking crazy, but.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. But this was giving one of his wildest performances Training day. But even training day goes more for the gusto. I think what it’s kind of missing actually is a big finale for Denzel’s character. But I think it’s also because the movie doesn’t realize that Denzel is the most interesting character in the film.

 

Louis Virtel Right. He’s making choices about how to play this, that are like superseding everybody else’s choices. And you keep thinking about what you’re going to get next from him, and you don’t feel that way about the other characters.

 

Ira Madison III And when he’s fighting in the final battle with Paul, Mescal is just sort of like even the death doesn’t feel like elevated enough. I compared this movie to I guess the Scream franchise. Scream is a very, you know, like well put together movie. Obviously it’s funny and you know better, etc., But, you know, it feels at least serious in a horror movie where, you know, Yeah. And then you get Scream two and then it’s just like it’s jumping everywhere. It’s operatic. It’s crazy, you know? And I think what we needed was in the final fight scene, like, we need Denzel, like, able to get his fucking Laurie Metcalf on. Yeah, like we needed some crazy ness. But the movie is so focused on, you know, the Army and Pedro’s character and then, you know, the twins, the Emperors, that it just sort of forgets that we are watching the movie for the job. But I also don’t think that Ridley Scott knows that the movie is camp.

 

Louis Virtel That’s possibly true. My God. Though those two emperor people, I kept calling him President Frankie Brando as he wandered into the same. And then the other one who lives longer. I called President Shawn Colvin. Suddenly came homelessness.

 

Ira Madison III Anybody that is a Joseph Quinn and on Fred Hechinger.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, yes, yes. The fight scenes in the movie I thought were the best. The gladiatorial scenes I thought were a tier below, but pretty fun. Everything else to me felt like a video game cut scene. Like everything is about legacy. Everything’s about what Rome was, the dream, whatever. Like, that’s all pretty standard. I don’t think any reason you’d really go. And seek out this movie. And speaking of that final fight with Denzel, it was for me, it felt like it was going to ramp up to something like the final fight in The Revenant, which I have to say is pretty badass, if you remember that with Tom Hardy and Leo. But this fight was kind of over before it began. You know, we you’re right. I think we needed way more from that. It needed more of a finale in order to sort of last. But this movie only has like a 63 on Metacritic. Girls, where is the prestige this season? We are needing some big critical hits to keep this season going. I’m super worried about the Oscars, even though my mad Conan O’Brien is hosting could not be happier. I absolutely know. It’ll be hilarious.

 

Ira Madison III I think we’re still in for Denzel getting maybe some nominations somewhere.

 

Louis Virtel I think you will.

 

Ira Madison III You know, and I mean, I’ve been revisiting some Denzel stuff and I rewatched Deja Vu by Tony Scott.

 

Louis Virtel Never seen it.

 

Ira Madison III Fantastic. Sci fi movie 2006. I’m him and Paula Patton. Remember when she was making movies?

 

Louis Virtel I remember we would put her in things like Precious. Yes. Yeah. And then we put her in Robin Thicke’s songs. And then she said, What if I retreated from society?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, because then she was in a Robin Thicke marriage.

 

Yes, Right. Big mistake. Huge.

 

Ira Madison III But, you know, that movie just reminds you that Denzel is just so eminently watchable. You know, and one thing I really love that he does in a movie and it doesn’t feel like he’s doing, you know, the talk about like the Goldblum Day, like it doesn’t feel like he’s doing Denzel like a character. But he has in every movie. I’ve noticed the way Denzel just laughs, like his character always finds a way to, like, laugh about something that’s like, amusing. And it’s just like he feels like a real human whenever he’s doing a role. And I really think that people should revisit. I think it was underrated and sort of like lost in the shuffle of the pandemic. But people should revisit Tragedy of Macbeth. He’s amazing in that.

 

Louis Virtel My God, Yes. Honestly, you know what’s weird is Frances McDormand is not bad in that, but it’s like it didn’t live up to the promise of what she gives in a role. I almost wonder if that was the critical element of that movie that went awry. But he’s amazing. In fact, we were just talking I was talking with my friends about how Colman Domingo this year might be might get a best actor nomination for Sing Sing.

 

Ira Madison III He just got the Gotham.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. He was nominated last year for best actor. And the last person to get two best Actor nominations in a row was Denzel Washington for Fences and Roman J. Israel Esquire, which was a film. So I’m looking forward to. I always look forward to Denzel returning to the Oscars and not just when he’s whispering in Will Smith’s ear after a big world ending accident.

 

Ira Madison III Dan Gilroy is another person I want dead because of that movie. But.

 

Louis Virtel Oh sure.

 

Ira Madison III You know, if I found him and was holding the gun, all he would have to do is remind me that he made Nightcrawler and I wouldn’t let him go.

 

Louis Virtel I love Nightcrawler. My God. Last time we gave a Rene Russo anything rad to do? And yes, I saw Velvet Buzzsaw, which he also did and upset me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, he’s married to Rene Russo, and so I’m like, Please give her something else to do, and I just need to I’m sorry. He’s just one of the few weird directors where I’m just like, How do you go from a Nightcrawler to making everything else that you made? You know, he’s sort of like the mail Cassie limits.

 

Louis Virtel She’s a go back. I keep it. I miss her.

 

Ira Madison III I know. Please come back, girl with a movie. We won’t have to pretend we enjoy.

 

Louis Virtel Brutal.

 

Ira Madison III Harriet. Speaking of.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, Cynthia Erivo.

 

Ira Madison III Used to be a rival. Yeah? Who? Well, we had a Glickedly fun time.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. Some more than others, but yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And just think about the fact that we are going to see them do this. But first of all, they’re about to do the awards season and then they’re going to take a nap and then they’re going to do all of this again for Wicked Part two.

 

Louis Virtel My God, yes. Somehow it did not feel overwhelming with something like Dune. But here, like Arianna does press well. And you tend to see everything she does in the press, like quotes bubble up. So, yeah, just buckle in.

 

Ira Madison III Well, the only thing about Dune was just watching Zendaya’s fashion show for two years. You know, like, I didn’t even really care what anybody else said on that press tour.

 

Louis Virtel No, she’s like, I’m getting up in the morning, I’m dressing like hot C-3PO and we’re heading to work.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we are back, we are joined by Mark-Paul Gosselaar to talk about her found on NBC. This week’s guest has gone from America’s sweetheart to America’s psycho and everything in between. As a beloved actor and director, you know him from Franklin and Bash, NYPD Blue, mixed ish. And of course, Saved by the Bell. Now he’s here to discuss his latest dark role as star in the NBC series Found. Welcome to Keep It. It’s Mark-Paul Gosselaar.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Hi there. Well, it’s only. It’s only as dark as you want it to be, right? I mean, it’s all by perspective.

 

Ira Madison III Unfortunately, I do have to say, I am some of the fans who really love her. And I my friend Cameron Johnson is a producer on the show and writer. And I actually started watching the show before I even realized he was working on it. I had somehow missed that he was, and I sent him a text and said, So when is Sir and Gabby going to get together? Because I’m on.

 

Louis Virtel Good Lord

 

Ira Madison III I’m one of the twisted fans who love their chemistry. So you’re not actually that scary to me.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Yeah, that I didn’t think that that would happen. When I took the role on, I knew that I wasn’t the typical model for being someone who have ducks. Children and specifically a 16 year old girl. I had asked our show runner and because I was having trouble, like just picturing who this rooster was when I read the script. And she said, well, if you needed to have amuse or, you know, to sort of have a paradigm of of who show look like on the on the exterior and why people allowed him to get away with the horrible things that he does. Look at Ted Bundy. And so I went on a deep dive. Obviously, there’s a lot of stuff out there, unfortunately, about Ted. And yeah, the guy did despicable, horrible things because he looked the way he did. He talked the way he did. He was able to get away with things. And I think that’s how serves in a way. But I don’t know what it says about you, IRA, that you want to that you want to ship them, as they say, that they’re young ones nowadays.

 

Louis Virtel It merely confirms everything I’ve thought about, IRA. So don’t worry about that. Diagnose that later. But do you have anything specifically that you picked up from, like, your Ted Bundy studies any like, vocal inflections or just ways to deal with people?

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar A lot of research and I think I picked up from Ted, too, was that he thinks he’s the smartest one in the room. And the way he’s written, obviously is is is is that way. But in the way that he speaks that everything’s a teaching moment, especially with Gabrielle or Gabby, is that any time he’s speaking with her, it’s a teaching moment, like he’s trying to make her a better person than she already is. He thinks she’s brilliant, and that’s why he has this deep affection and love for her. But yeah, the way he looks, the beard and the hair, the cloth and, you know, his appearance, how important that was, it was written. But I always need to have something that I can bounce off or write. I need to I need to see something, whether it’s fictional or true. And I used, oddly enough, as an English teacher in my youth. I don’t know if the guy abducted people, but, you know, I used him as a sort of my canvas.

 

Louis Virtel Well, that’s interesting that you say that, because I think about teachers who are from my youth who are all, I think, normal. But at the same time, there’s always something about teachers, especially good ones, where you’re wondering what the fuck is up with you? Why are you good at this? What what ability has led you to be like, seemingly, you know, a rad, knowledgable person? Is there something I don’t know? You know.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Sir, Unfortunately. I had a really bad childhood. There’s a lot of people that have had really bad childhoods and don’t go in that direction that he went into. So again, like with a teacher, you don’t know what their background is, but they could go in one direction or they could go in the other or there’s a gray path. So you just you just never know about that person. But for me, it all it all stems from a visual, a physical physicality. And then from there, I can work off the character and and, you know, create a backstory. And a lot of the first season, I didn’t know what service backstory was. Our showrunner told me that he he had mother issues. I was like, look, I could play off of that. I can understand a little bit of that. Having grown up in the business and you know, I have a great mother, but you know, we all have our issues. And so I was able to just come up with a story, my dad and my head. And then and I don’t know what episode probably the midway of season one, we realize how dark and and and twisted it is with his mother and that sort of shaped them. But again, most people that we know don’t take the direction that he did.

 

Ira Madison III Right. One thing I’ve always loved about your work is that you do really well in ensemble pieces and you’re very funny. But watching this show, particularly the first season, as you mentioned, you’re basically chained up in a basement and you’re only really interacting with Shinola. Hampton And so how has it been working on the show with mostly just scenes with her in the first season, but now this season getting to, I guess, finally interact with the rest of the cast?

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Yeah, I had to learn everybody’s names. I had no idea who the rest of the cast was. I was like, Wait, I’ve seen you on television, but what’s your name again now? It’s been fun. I mean, we have a really great cast, really, really good people, great people and really fantastic actors. And I was able to later on in the season, season two, I was able to direct them. And that’s what I really got to understand them all and just connect with them at a different level than just, you know, being on set and working as an actor. But yeah, it’s been fun. It’s it’s really opened the door for a lot of great television that I think our audience will will appreciate. For me, it was it’s been a it’s been a weird season for me. It just I don’t live in Atlanta. We filmed the show in Atlanta. I fly back and forth. I do my work. And I have a little like crash pad there that I use if I need, but I head back home sometimes. I’ll take a redeye Orland in the morning, I’ll film my day and then head on a flight back home that night so I can be home almost in like 28 hours. 30 hours. But the season won because I was in the basement or the farmhouse. I did a little bit more work and I was there in Atlanta for a little bit longer. And so and again, it was just the channel and now it’s the second season where I’m kind of popping off and at different locations. It’s it’s just been it’s just been a little bit more interesting with my travel and trying to trying to figure out I had a good routine in the first season just being in the basement. I was I was very content. And now just being out in the open I have to a little bit more. What I’m basically do is I’m complaining that I have to work more guys.

 

Louis Virtel Oh ok. I get it now.

 

Ira Madison III Directing your cast too, must be fun. I mean, I remember you directed an episode of the reboot of Saved by the Bell, which I loved. I love that. How did it go? What was it like, I guess stepping into a director role in a show like that, directing people who, you know, you’d worked with 20 years ago?

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar It was pretty cool. I got to say, you know, I didn’t know I wasn’t worried about Tiffany or Elizabeth. I was a little bit worried about Mario. Mario and I have a relationship of like, you know, it’s like real, you know, we kind of look at each other, like, really that kind of thing. And so I thought if I would give him a note, I was just wondering how much he would take it. Like kind of as if I just said, Hey, try this, if he would actually. But he honestly, everyone was so supportive. It was really cool to work with Franco Barrio, who is one of the original producers on on Saved By the Bell. And he’s a he was a producer on the reboot. It made me realize how talented everyone was on our show. I always felt like I was like the underdog in that show. Like I just didn’t have, you know, Mario was a dancer and a drummer and a wrestler, you know, And Tiffany was just beautiful. And she was Miss Teen something. And she could also sing and Elizabeth could dance and singing and lark and dance and everyone everyone was multitalented. And I was just like this this kid that was, you know, dyed my hair. They are blond and look like America’s favorite kid. And I wasn’t right. I look like this. I am an Asian mom and I felt like I was tricking everybody. Like I was like, what? How did I make it into this room? Couldn’t sing, can dance. Or at least I didn’t want to. And and. And then directing the new cast. They were just equally or more talented than. Than the original were. I mean, these were all just multifaceted actors and singers and performers. It was just there’s been a really I’m so kind of upset that NBC took that off. I felt like we had a few more seasons left to tell. And Tracy Wingfield was was amazing.

 

Louis Virtel Who is, of course, the 30 Rock alum, shared the show. Great news, which was so funny, too, with Nicole Richie on it. Do you have any favorite acting moments from the original Saved by the Bell cast members from later in their careers? I always think it’s very interesting where everybody on that show ended up going like nobody went the same direction.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar No, I mean, you know, when when Elisabeth did Showgirls, I remember how excited she was. And I remember she came over to my apartment and all she wanted to know is how to say dirty words in Dutch because I’m Dutch and she should work with Paul Verhoeven. And so I tried to utter a few things and I was so proud of it. I mean, it was like, you know, I didn’t know what the movie was going to be, but the fact that she was doing a film with Paul Verhoeven, you know, a major film, and the actors that were involved with that, I didn’t know what I was going to turn into, but I was still very proud of her. And I think Mario, I always thought that he was going to become a host. He was always really good with with connecting with people and and things like that. And I must say, I was I was shocked when he played Colonel Sanders for for I don’t know if it was for Lifetime or Hallmark. I don’t think I’ve given him enough shit for playing that that character. But to put on the white goatee, you know, whiter, I have to make sure I give more shit for that. But no, Tiffany. I mean, when she went over to Ninotchka and. I remember thinking, my gosh, she’s going on a show that I would watch.

 

Ira Madison III My favorite character. By the way, she was.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just love that show because it was so edgy back then, you know, for for my age. It was nothing like Saved by the Bell. Saved by the Bell was just this colorful, even by the sets, you know, just color and, and, and just the different vibe. And Ninotchka and I was like, that’s that’s a edgy show. You know, for for people my age. So when she went on there, I was I was just like, I was a little jealous that she was going to be be able to play those characters.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, I think the first time she was even introduced on that show, she’s smoking pot out the window of the White House. So it’s like, this is who she is.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I want to ask two then about you jumping into your own sort of, I guess, edgy role, as it were. Would you join NYPD Blue? You know, what was that like, shifting, I guess, into a real adult role? And did you have, you know, any sort of fun experiences like, you know, being a cop on that show?

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Well, I had tried out for a different show for Bochco. Steven Bochco. I tried out for Philly, which when Kim Delaney left NYPD Blue, he created a show about a public defender in Philly for for her. And I was going to play her partner or, you know, somebody that worked alongside her. And I didn’t know that they had offered that role to Tom Everett Scott. I just got I just finished a film with Tom ever.

 

Ira Madison III Scott had been on campus.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Didn’t happen.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar So I knew we were totally different, right? I mean, it’s like we’re not the same actor at all. And so I went into that room thinking, I’m going to give them something different than Tom. I think I have a really good shot at this. Little did I know they already offered it to Tom. And I sort of just went in the room just to kind of meet Steven Bochco. And I remember him saying to me after the reading, You’re really good. I’d love to work with you in the future. And I thought, that’s a nice way of him to tell me to go fuck myself, you know, because that’s what you do, right? It is like you’re really good, but you’re not going to get this job. But no, he said, Listen, I’d like to work with you in the future. And two weeks later, he called my, my, my team, as they say here in Hollywood, and and said we’d love to have him on NYPD Blue. And I thought, well, okay, as a uniformed cop, great. Because I knew Rick Schroeder was on. I didn’t know that he was departing the show and didn’t give much detail about what it was, what the character was going to be. And then it just I think it was right around the time that you start doing like gallery shoots and things like that for the show for the upcoming ninth season that it was going to be that I realized I was going to play detective and not only a detective, but I was going to play opposite Dennis Franz, who for 12 seasons of that show was nominated nine times for an Emmy. I think he won 4 or 5 times. But now I’m playing the the part that Rick was of, of Dennis, his partner. I was like, I’m a kid from California. I’ve I’ve known you maybe a handful of times, been in New York. I mean, everything that I see, I basically was from a film or a television show, and now I’m playing a detective. So I had so much anxiety joining that cast and and just wanting to do right by all the fans because, you know, that show had such a following after nine seasons that I’m glad social media wasn’t around back then because I don’t know that I could have stepped foot on the on the set the first days if I read all the comments because I’m sure people had them. Like, you know, I remember there was a guy on crack, Ralph Garman, who did the Who did the sort of, you know, updates on on film and television. And he basically said on the radio that I was going to shoot the bad guy. And he was a huge fan of the show. And he just basically said, I’m going to bring this whole franchise down. So my friend Ralph and I are now friends because he wasn’t wrong. I thought the same thing. I was like, my gosh, you know, here’s a guy that people know me as a Zack Morris.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of esteemed actors, I remember one time you had a very memorable cameo on Weeds. My favorite live actor of all time is Mary-Louise Parker, who I saw in a play called The Sound Inside at 2019. People who didn’t see that you truly missed out, I’m sure I talked about it 20 times in the show, but do you have any specific memories of working with her? I find her to be constantly enigmatic in a cool way.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar She is amazing. I have a I had a crush on her. Yeah. Before working with her. And then, you know, obviously the scene that we did, I think it was rated as like the best sex scene ever on television to that point. So I definitely had a crush on her afterwards. The funny thing about that was is that I had worked with Justin Kirk on a on a Broadway play with Julie White, Justin Kirk, myself, just the three of us called the understudy and Mary-Louise Parker came to the to the to the show. And I was just like, my gosh, you know, I just love her and and things like that. And the director was also the director for Weeds. He did a lot of the episodes. Scott Ellis And cut too. So that was the winter of 2009. I am going through a divorce. Beginning of 2010. And Scott calls me and says, Hey, I need you to do me a favor. I need you to come on weeds. I was like, okay, what’s what’s up? He’s like, got a sex scene with Mary Louise Parker. He goes, The guy that we had dropped out doesn’t want to do it, does want to show is as your show is at your ass, right? I go, well, I have I was on NYPD Blue, you know, every week we had to show our asses like, yeah, it’s going to get pretty, pretty intense. Mary-Louise Parker wants you to do it. I was like, Listen, Scott, I’m going through a divorce. I’m really not feeling it right. I just wasn’t I wasn’t there. I wasn’t in that space. And I was like, No, no, you’re going to come do that. Just come tomorrow, show up. It’s going be great. I’d never been or now ever been in a scene like that where where she literally told me what I was going to do. That entire scene, if you see it, was completely orchestrated by her. And all it was was we sat, she set up these amps and I remember there was a Rolling Stone song playing and it was like she I basically was was she says, Attack me and I’m going to attack you kind of thing. And like, there was this point where I took my belt off and I whip her with the belt. And I remember we were first at one time and I said like this. And I kind of just like tap her. She goes harder. I go, Well, like that? And she goes harder. I go, okay, listen, on the day I’ll do it. But I, you know, it’s like and I remember she texted me or someone texted me, it might have been Scott texted me and said the next day that Mary-Louise Parker couldn’t sit for her for the day. And and didn’t complain, though was not complaining that that it was that. But that scene was pretty intense and I just wasn’t in the right frame of mind. I wish I. I wish I could have enjoyed it more. But it was it was pretty intense.

 

Ira Madison III Umm for someone who’s, you know, been on TV for so long. I mean, you’ve been a part of so many shows that, you know, I feel like I wish had gone on longer. You know, there’s I’m I remember DC, I remember Hyperion Bay, but I feel like the one that people miss the most. And you probably still hear people talk about it all the time is pitch. You know, I absolutely loved that show. And, you know, did you feel that that show was just sort of like a moment at the time? I feel like it had so much support from fans like online. Like that was a really shocking cancellation to me.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar That show in particular really hurt when went to when we were told we weren’t doing a second season. It was an interesting time because I was working with such great pedigree, right? I was working with Dan Fogelman, Kevin Falls, who I had worked with on Franklin and Bosch. It was like Fox in Big Thing, right? I think that was that was the big thing that year. And that wasn’t even like he had This is us, right? He knew he had a deal for 20th Dan Fogelman. He wrote Pitch. He wrote This is us. He wants to give pitch to 20th. So Fox does it and goes, yeah, I got this NBC thing and I read both scripts and and they’re both equally great. But this is this goes to NBC because pitch was like the thing that was that seemed like it was going to be the bigger winner. When we’re filming this every day, felt like we were stepping onto a big budget film, you know, and just the the the connections that we made on that and on that show and the material and the fact that we’re playing baseball every single day and we’re being trained like athletes. I mean, it was a dream job for me. It was exactly what I would have always wanted to do. If I could have retired on that show, I absolutely would have that. That one was really, really stunning. And there’s playing that character. You know, I kind of we’re finishing up Yellowstone right now and I look at like Cole Hauser and I feel like, that’s that role that I played on on pitch, you know, that kind of the the gruff cowboy in a way, in that I was just it was just fun to play. I, I really enjoyed that.

 

Louis Virtel Does playing a role like sir, change the pop culture diet you consume by? Do you find that you’re watching more? Well, I got to watch something with a psycho in it so I can like brush up my skills, etc.. What do you find yourself watching and rewatching?

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Yeah, I know it’s funny you say that because I do try to find dark things to watch. I remember when Dahmer came out, I was watching that and, you know, any any sort of Ryan Murphy thing I’m trying to consume. But my wife is the exact opposite. She she likes to watch a little lighter things, which is interesting because we just finished the Penguin and she absolutely devoured it. Right. Since she loved the penguin, I’m like, this is pretty dark, you know, So it’s but she’ll tend to want to watch lighter things. So I kind of have to follow what she watches. But my my Q and on on my streamers are a little more a little more dark. But when, when when I’m done with served like when I’m sitting on the flight home, I’m watching as many light and fluffy YouTube things as I possibly can because I don’t want to bring that home, you know, which was tough with Pitch, actually. When we did pitch, the studio was only 15 minutes away from our house and I would come in as Mike Lawson. And, you know, Mike was 20 pounds heavier than I am bearded and, you know, gruff and just mean. And so I come in walking through the door and my wife is like, I didn’t marry that guy. I, you know, I want to see the other guy. And it was tough for me to, like, wash that character off day in and day out. But being in Atlanta, I have a four hour flight to kind of just let it all go and try to consume as much fluffy things as possible. But Penguin and we just finished that. I absolutely love that. Like that was that was just an amazing, amazing accomplishment and told it. And that’s Matt Reeves, too, who did a show that I did called The Passage, which was another one of those, which was like this this show, the fact that it didn’t get a second season really kind of stung.

 

Louis Virtel We just had Cristin Milioti here. She is a talent freak. Psycho. What is wrong with her?

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar She’s so good in that show. It is so mesmerizing to watch her play that character and and just the filming of that and just the quality of that just is is is I’m just in all.

 

Ira Madison III I guess circling back last to you know, you were talking about the Philly moment. And I think I think of viewers, you know, you’re one of the few people on TV who’s been able to land a iconic TV character early on in your career and still be working successfully in many other roles that are diverse and great. Is there anything from your time on TV, from when you were Zach to up to now, like a show that you watched or something that, you know, one of your friends was on where you were like, I really wish I’d been able to be on that show.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar No. I mean, you know, again, we’re going to talk we talk about the penguin, right? I like I was asked the question of what character I’d like to play because I’ve played such diverse characters. I’d like to play a character like what Colin Farrell just did, right, where you don’t realize it’s Colin because he’s got the prosthetics on. I know that Colin applies ahead. Be careful what you wish for because sitting in that chair day in and day out. Yeah. You know, as is, is I mean, it’s got to be taxing mentally and physically. But I’d love to do that where, you know Gary Oldman will do that as well. Like he’ll play characters and just be in prosthetics where you’re just a wait that’s that’s Gary underneath there. So I would like to do that at some point where, you know, you just kind of get lost in this in this character and the audience doesn’t and doesn’t see you. At first I felt that way with pitch, though. A lot of a lot of people when they first watch that show, they didn’t realize that I was that I was Mike underneath. I don’t. I was me underneath that beard. So I like that. I’d like to to do that. I’d also like to do like a a big budget film where we do maybe a fourth of a page every day instead of, you know, on on network television where you’re doing between 7 and 9 pages a day, you know, and having to learn so much. I’d like to take your time. I haven’t I haven’t done on a big budget film in a while, so I’d be fun to just sit on on your ass and, you know, sort of have a great conversation with your actors and then do a little bit of work and then have another have another espresso and chill out.

 

Louis Virtel Glamor is what we want. Yes.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Yeah. Not work. Again, this all goes back. I’m complaining that having to work too hard, which for as an actor, we just don’t. We just live such a great life. I mean, you know, when you’re on set, people are asking you, what would you like to eat? We’ll go get whatever you want. What would you like to drink? Are you thirsty? Are you comfortable? Do you need a jacket? You know, you come home and it’s like all that goes out the window. I’m now an Uber driver for my kids. I’m now the DoorDash person for my kids, you know, and just trying to Just trying to survive.

 

Louis Virtel Well, thank you so much for being here. And also, you’re great on the show, so congrats on Sir and wherever he may go.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar According to Ira, Shanola and I will be, you know, living on an island together, I mean, I don’t even know. How does that end for you, Ira? Like, what happens here?

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know. You know, I think it’s this show is so dark and I think it’s but I think it explores the darkness at her and everybody on it. And, you know, I could see season five like it happens somehow.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar I don’t know. But what then? What do we do? We just live happily ever after.

 

Ira Madison III At all, you know? But you know, Dexter, it happened on Dexter.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar I did. I think I tapped out after the John Lithgow season, which was amazing, by the way.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, you missed him dating a sister, so that’s probably for the best.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar He did?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. The final.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar Great. Thanks for spoiling, Ira.

 

Ira Madison III No one needs to see that season, I promise. Thank you so much for being here.

 

Mark-Paul Gosselaar I appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

 

Ira Madison III Since August, Billboard has been rolling out a list of the top 25 pop stars of the 21st century. While the names haven’t been too surprising, the order of them are especially to Swifties, who just learned that Taylor wasn’t going to take the top spot. Just wait til they find out she isn’t winning any Grammys either.

 

Louis Virtel You know, you never fucking. You never know. She’s such a juggernaut that, like, she may pick up 1 or 2. But you’re right. Not the album of the year. And by the way, thank God nobody needs five albums this year. I mean that for literally anybody.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Does anybody have them?

 

Louis Virtel No, she has the most albums she has for I mean, like, I think Paul Simon has three and Stevie Wonder has three. But, you know.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, when I think about the fact that Audra McDonald has six Tonys and she could get a seven for Gypsy, I’m just like, people just want her dead.

 

Louis Virtel Now I know they have her on a treadmill. They’re like, keep going.

 

Ira Madison III And, you know, one of them is Samuel L Jackson, the wife. But I think we’ll just first get added to the top two spots because it must be said, Beyoncé is number one. Taylor Swift is number two. The Swifties lost their goddamn minds.

 

Louis Virtel I imagine them keeping their minds. But what does it sound like them?

 

Ira Madison III Well, you know what? I say this as someone who, you know, is a part time swifty. You know.

 

Louis Virtel I would say you work overtime, frankly.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I don’t work that hard for the money. Okay. But Taylor treats me right.

 

Louis Virtel All right. I won’t inspect that. Excuse me. There is no denying that it should be beyond saying that Swift. I mean, Taylor Swift is like, one of the largest stars of all time. Her output is very consistent. And as the rate of it coming out is very consistent. And also, she’s been famous since, I think, 2007. This is somebody who was up against best of up for best new artist against Amy Winehouse. So, I mean, this is somebody who’s been in the business a generation, 20 years, basically. And yet Beyonce’s career has just been more monumental, more fascinating. And she’s also somehow gotten only better over time. I mean, she’s she is a mystical wonder. I mean, I don’t know how she does it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And honestly, you have to remember that the 21st century starts with 2001, right?

 

Louis Virtel And that’s right. When she starts putting out her first solo stuff. I mean, I go crazy in love as 2003, but she had solo stuff before. That’s like check on it and stuff.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Independent Woman is 2001 and like, that album Survivor for Destiny’s Child is just is massive, you know? And I think going from that to there the fact of where she is now with the Renaissance, obviously she keeps getting better with the influence she’s had on all these people. It’s wild that swifties like have lost their mind. When Taylor Swift herself has listed Beyonce as an influence by Taylor Swift would put Beyoncé over her.

 

Louis Virtel Certainly. No. I mean, it would be ludicrous if she didn’t.

 

Ira Madison III I think what was hard for them was the fact that Billboard made this list. And with like Billboard, they always stickers on their side because of the metrics. You know, it’s we’ve lost the ability to debate music any more, frankly, just because I mean, it’s not just stands out, but it’s also just a fact that music is subjective. You know, and when we grew up, you know, you had to I had to defend the fact that I was listening to Britney Spears in high school. You know, now these brats just have to be like, look at the numbers. You know, like, check the numbers, bitch is all they have to say. If you recall Maxwell sliding into someone’s DMS and telling her that once on Twitter there’s like, check the numbers, you know, because it’s that is how they determine that she is the biggest in the world. And it’s just like, I’m sorry numbers isn’t taste, you know?

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s not. And that’s just that these people want that to be taste or to have meaning. But the fact is, lots of people like extremely basic. It’s like it’s like saying, well, why doesn’t McDonald’s have a michelin star? You know, it’s the most popular food on the planet. It must be the best food on the planet. Now, you’re conflating two different metrics that actually probably shouldn’t intersect.

 

Ira Madison III And I was just also state for the fact that before this happened where you were like debating things based on metrics and things, every single other popular artist, big artist over history, just check their numbers. You know, it’s like every song that you think is major, every song that you think is like maybe the most influential movies that you think are the most influential. When you go back and find out that maybe they were only like number five on Billboard, when they seem like they should have been number one. It’s absolutely insane. And when you look at number one songs, you know, like Who Let the Dogs Out? Should the Baha men be at the top of a list just because that song was number one for so many weeks? It’s just like, use your brains.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, it reminds me of the debate people are having over Wicked. Losing the best Tony The best musical Tony to Avenue Q And it’s like at the time, people thought that Wicked was a signal of like the adult ification of Broadway. This is a term I’m stealing from Twitter that I saw, and Avenue Q was seen as more of a great leap forward and way more irreverent and strange and, you know, kind of South Park ish, I guess. So it’s just it makes sense in a way that Wicked would lose to it. Now I’m looking at this list of pop stars. I’ll just go through the top ten quickly. Obviously, Beyonce is number one, Taylor Swift’s number two, then Rihanna, then Drake, Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, Kanye West, Justin Bieber. Ariana Grande. Adele. Way further down the list at 25 is Katy Perry, which feels weird to me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel She feels like hit very hard. Definitively. Pop music. For me, some of the best bubblegum pop of the 21st century. I don’t know why she’s that loud, namely below something like One Direction with their 3 or 4 top ten hits in the States. I don’t know. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t I’m thinking of the impact of both of them and I feel like it’s just not that cool right now to vouch for Katy Perry and what she did. And that’s why she landed lower than she should have. The other thing that strikes me looking at this list is it feels like people are missing someone like Mariah Carey, for example. But I’m assuming that this list is saying they had to have peaked in the 21st century, too. And because Mariah had such a storied 1990s that Madonna had a storied 1980s and 1990s. They’re not there either. And in fact, the reason this list exists is so they can be like, let’s have a list where Madonna or Janet is not the number one.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Even though I would argue that Emancipation of Mimi was one of the like Mariah’s era then was one of the biggest in pop music in the 21st.

 

Louis Virtel I Believe We Belong Together is the biggest hit of the 2000. So.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I kind of weirdly agree with Hailey Bieber, who coveted, you know, Fuck Billboard, where they put Justin Bieber as eight because wow, I put him higher.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it’s interesting. I mean, like, for instance, Britney Spears is number six. And I don’t know that in a way, her biggest moment was before the 21st century, you know. Right. She debuted. I think if you talk about Britney Spears, you think, baby, one more time or pardon me. We think about all of her music, but the average person walking through a target, what do they think, baby? One more time.

 

Ira Madison III Mmmhmm. Yeah, I think the I think the Britney Spears placement at six was grace.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, we love her and such. Yeah. But like, the fact that Britney Spears would be six and Katy Perry 25 doesn’t make sense to me as it pertains to the 21st century.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And also, you know, you’ve got I think, you know, like pop star is, you know, obviously pop star means popular music because, you know, we’re throwing Jay-Z, Nicki Minaj on here. Yeah. Yeah. Eminem above. Some people, too, is sort of wild. But, you know, the list is just very it was very loosey goosey.

 

Louis Virtel Right? I mean, it’s also everybody’s sort of qualifies as bad. Like somebody to me that’s missing from this list should be in the top 25 is pink. Pink has never gone away. Pink has huge tours. She has doubling down on I am fucking Mary Martin and you will watch me soar through the sky. That is what I do.

 

Ira Madison III And somebody is watching it.

 

Louis Virtel No, she’s like, I have a Peter Pan collar on and you will accept me as is. And also, the hits are the hits. I mean, she’s had plenty of eras. And I still remember when she debuted and gave us that. There you go. Shit. And I just thought.

 

Ira Madison III Black, pink.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. The original black pink. I remember thinking, okay, her whole thing is girl who sits at attention and gets into a fight with the principal. And 25 years later, girl, she’s still that. Come on. Consistency.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, L.A. told her you’ll be a pop star. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Just not the top 25. Not the top 25.

 

Ira Madison III What’s also happening lately is places are starting to roll out their best songs of 2024. And Pitchfork, of course, name their top ten. And I’ve got some thoughts.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III First is Not Like Us, which I feel like undeniable. That’s like the biggest song of the year just culturally.

 

Louis Virtel And also just defines a moment in time. Like everybody was aware of that feud picking sides and that he reigns supreme.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Yeah. And, you know, to be a hypocrite, you know, when I was like Taylor Swift dominating the entire Billboard top ten with tortured poets, I didn’t really mind when Kendrick did it with Gene Acts this week. Like basically, I think he has like eight slots on the top ten. Finally knocked Swoosie out of the number one slot.

 

Louis Virtel I thought somebody was going to put down four houses and a hotel on number one just like fucking live there.

 

Ira Madison III Also, I hate that song.

 

Louis Virtel I would say the song is okay. I it’s just one of those things where I’m surprised. It’s quite the hit. It is like where I guess people are craving a little guitar in the top ten.

 

Ira Madison III While people like a little folksy, yeehaw black man, you know that. And Lil Nas X’s old town Road.

 

Louis Virtel You know, which I guess is still one of the biggest hits of all time. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And he got little Nas X at the CMA Awards when every category he was nominated for didn’t win a single thing.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely. Precisely.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I do want to say that for the most part, I know all these songs. You know, I love that espresso is on here. I love the good luck babies on here.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, I just want to say that I’ve heard some people reject Espresso wholesale recently. I believe when this song debuted, we were talking about it. I made fun of the lyrics for being a little sample or whatever. The lyrics are really funny and the song is undeniably catchy. It’s one of the few songs For the first time I heard it, I had to hear it again. Yeah, and I can’t say I’ve had that sensation many times this year.

 

Ira Madison III I do want to comment on number five, though, which is still houseplants. I don’t know what a stillhouse plant is. Right. Don’t ask me. I was wondering if stillhouse plants meant there stillhouse plants. As if. You know, like they haven’t changed.

 

Louis Virtel Right? And they won’t for. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Or they’re still houseplants, as in their unmoving houseplants. And that just made me want to, like, look behind me and see if my cat was moving. But this kind of music is very, you know, obtuse, discordant music. And I just don’t have the appetite for that kind of music anymore.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, like, certain people just bubble up and I can’t say anything else other than it’s not my thing. Lana Del Rey. Not my thing.

 

Ira Madison III Well, you should see someone about that.

 

Louis Virtel I shrug. I and I like a drowsy lady, you know? Girl, I heard you in concert. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You prefer them to be a chaperon, though?

 

Louis Virtel That’s right. Yes. Drowsy Chappell Roan. Is there upon that? I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III That should be some faggots. Drag them in New York at pieces tomorrow night.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God. How hasn’t that happened? Come on. Maybe it has.

 

Ira Madison III And M.J. Letterman is a person who exists, and I actually do love that up. So I’m going to support Wristwatch being up there. But other than that, you know, a lot of the lists are I feel like Sabrina Carpenter is either on a list or she’s not on one of these top ten lists that are rolling out. Some people are pretending that espresso is not the moment. And I will say, I was even I was trying to pick like my favorite songs for like a Spotify list that I’m going to put out. And I was just like, am I going between, like, espresso or like, a good graces? You know, I feel like because I feel like that song is so major on the album. It’s the one I constantly listen to. But Espresso did dominate my entire summer, and I wonder how you feel, too, about like when people are making top songs lists, right? You know, like they always seem to necessarily be singles instead of album tracks. Even though I feel like once you get an album, you know, like the song, certain songs like Hit You more.

 

Louis Virtel You’re right. I mean, like this is a conversation that happens with movies, too, where it’s balancing what you think of movies that are already in the realm of like critical acceptance and being beloved and also just personal taste that like things that haven’t permeated a conversation that you might want to put forward. I guess my thing is if you’re conducting a list, if you have a strange take included in the last week, I want to hear the opinion about the thing I’m not necessarily thinking about more than anything. You know, a lot of people get mad at critic top ten for, who’s seen that movie or who’s seen that movie? Well, now you’ve heard of it. You might go seek it out now.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I can forever think of Richard Larson putting the Meddler as his number one film that year in Vanity Fair.

 

Louis Virtel And here we are talking about it. Exactly.

 

Ira Madison III And that I watched it.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And you’re like, wow. She loves it. Susan Sarandon lives at the mall and she’s really giving Rose Byrne a hard time.

 

Ira Madison III And honestly, we needed that movie then because Susan Sarandon, One look good for her.

 

Louis Virtel No. Right. Still very talented.

 

Ira Madison III I would actually say about songs like that too, is it’s actually a phenomenon I always think about when it comes to sort of deep cuts on older albums, right? Because I feel like we’re in the streaming era when when an album comes out, you can necessarily everybody like can listen to the album on streaming, you know, And so you can sample songs and like, I feel like more people are aware of album tracks on individual albums these days than they necessarily were before, I think.

 

Louis Virtel Absolutely true.

 

Ira Madison III Definitely, because I would put on like one of my favorite Whitney Houston songs is Love as a Contact Sport, which is on the album. Whitney with I’m So Emotional and I will like put it on of the jukebox at Juliet’s, right? And people are like, What song is this? And then you think about the fact that unless you are a person who bought that vinyl at the time and listen to it, you probably never heard it before because it wasn’t a single.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s not in commercials.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And it wasn’t included on like compilation CD’s either.

 

Louis Virtel Right. No, you just had to know that I love the Whitney Houston non single anymore from I’m Your Baby Tonight.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Now obviously all her catalog should be re-inspected. Yes though I think the big musical moments this year though really announce themselves. It’s hard to get around putting Billie Eilish and Chaperon and Charli and Sabrina Carpenter in your top ten. I think it’s all like accomplished, interesting pop music that wasn’t contrived.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Great year for music, to be honest. Great year for music and prestige. To be honest, I feel like as opposed to where was the prestige in movies? All of all of the major artists pretty much released albums this year.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s true. Including Dua, Lipa, an album that. Well, I see it again. Who knows?

 

Ira Madison III You know, I am radically holding space for some optimism.

 

Louis Virtel The Grammys were not. So, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I you know what? I still listen to that ambient album.

 

Louis Virtel It is her Lorde Solar Power album, you know, which some people do like, and I hope they enjoy their marijuana.

 

Ira Madison III I still have never listened to that album.

 

Louis Virtel Really?

 

Ira Madison III I didn’t like solar power. And then the Stones at a Nail Salon song came out and I was like, The fuck is that? And then I never listened to it. And I think that, again, I’m just going to keep the beat going.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, good. I have never been a huge fan of Lorde. She is on that. Talking Heads. Stop Making Sense Cover album Take Me to the River is the song she covers on it. So good. That really got kind of that opened the door for me in terms of Lorde.

 

Ira Madison III She’s great at If I can cover her over Thanksgiving, I introduce some friends to her cover of I’m Kanye West’s Hold My Liquor, which is of Jesus. Amazing cover of it. And also, last thing I want to say about music, you know, I was glad for Katy’s placement on there because I feel like, you know, like he’s obviously fallen off and fallen into the pits of hell. But when he was hot, it was hot. And those albums, particularly Yeezus, I think a lot of people revisit my beautiful, dark, Twisted Fantasy, which, you know, for me was such a big moment in grad school. I remember everyone gathering at someone’s apartment to listen to it. But he’s always just sort of been like, I miss people who are sort of on the edge of listening to producers that we haven’t listened to yet and sort of predicting gay shit. Jesus, every producer on there like Staff Austin and shit are all the people who are producers on Brad.

 

Louis Virtel Right, right, right. No, I mean, he’s unbelievably accomplished. And also, one of those people who the minute he emerged, everybody just agreed on him. You know, it’s like the minute Jesus walks that occurred. It was an unavoidable phenomenon, like even before we got to Gold Digger. And then it like started dominating even the Billboard singles chart.

 

Ira Madison III And we haven’t really had one of those people currently obviously chaperoned, but like there’s still like, we haven’t really had a person who’s just sort of like everybody is like, yes.

 

Louis Virtel I wonder what man that’ll be. That’s my last take on that. Anyway, I just want to put this thought out there. If you want to put a list together of pop cultural things and then, you know, you think, maybe pop culture people will talk about it. Go ahead and do it because I will literally get angry about it. Please. It gives me something to do with my head. And IRA to.

 

Ira Madison III Also, of course, they were happy to put Taylor Swift at number two, because you swifties being angry is always going to get more clicks than swifties being happy.

 

Louis Virtel Right? And if a couple of people get taxed, so be it.

 

Ira Madison III All right. We’ll be right back with Keep It There. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. I’m going to go first this week.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Because this is a very pressing matter.

 

Louis Virtel You sound upset.

 

Ira Madison III I am upset. I saw what first of all, a skit as they are called on blue sky.

 

Louis Virtel I did not know that. I’m on Blue Sky two, by the way. I have no idea how to get followers back. It is true drudgery being like, Please pay attention to me.

 

Ira Madison III I know the amount of people who are just sort of like thirsting for new followers or getting mad that people aren’t following them back and like, sort of, you know, I actually don’t want as many followers as I used to have on Twitter, to be honest today.

 

Louis Virtel So I would love it if you had fewer followers. God.

 

Ira Madison III But I saw one on there and someone wrote. I fully realize acknowledge that everyone has their own unique preferences. And on the whole, I do try to remain a judgment free person, but I honestly can’t fathom how anyone could willingly choose oatmeal raisin over a chocolate chip. And there are a lot of people on blue sky now slandering the oatmeal raisin cookie slandering raisin bread. Slandering cinnamon raisin bagels, which, by the way, when I get my bacon, egg and cheese at the bodega every morning, I get it on a cinnamon raisin bagel, toasted.

 

Louis Virtel For lots of flavors. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Every profile.

 

Ira Madison III I love raisins. I still love raisins. I love eating from, like, the little box of sunmaid raisins. They’re a perfect snack.

 

Louis Virtel Has anybody served like the sun made raisins? Girl, She’s like. She’s like, Would you like this bushel? Here comes the sun.

 

Ira Madison III Chiquito wishes. Welcome back. How are those fucking bananas?

 

Louis Virtel What is that? She’s, like, got a blue label? I can’t tell. But she’s, like, mocking Carmen. Miranda. What’s going on with her.

 

Ira Madison III And my grandmother? Bless her soul, she saw a lot of. I don’t know, I say, bless her, that she just gets to.

 

Louis Virtel Bless her souls.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Bless you. Grandmother, She used to collect California raisins figurines.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, which is like a dead reference to people now.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. No one knows who the fuck they are. I mean, I guess they’re sort of like Looney Tunes in that respect. Like when Space Jam two came out, we were like, Do kids even know who the Tasmanian devil is?

 

Louis Virtel No, because also then you have to explain when you’re explaining California raisins, you have to explain what Motown is to people too. And it’s like, Well, good luck. Pick up a book.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Motown went the way of Black Wall Street.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You know. The white fruits were not happy.

 

Louis Virtel And here I am now. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I fucking love raisins. I’m sorry. I like. I love Raisin bread.

 

Louis Virtel I love Raisin Bran. I think Raisin Bran is one of the best cereals.

 

Ira Madison III Raisin Bran is a great cereal. And let me just say something about an oatmeal raisin cookie. Oatmeal tastes good. I love oatmeal for breakfast. I love raisin cinnamon raisin oatmeal from that from that Quaker man. You know, the Quakers did one good thing and that was making oatmeal.

 

Louis Virtel And it was a bobbed wig. And I was a bobbed wig. My Keep It this week. And pardon me if I’m reiterating something that I’ve already brought up in weeks past. Keep it to this Oscar race. What’s happening right now? Because it sure seems like we’re going to have Danielle Deadwyler again. And, baby, I cannot handle it. I cannot deal with what we did to her for till when Andrea Riseborough and her a oatmeal raisin eating cookie family came in and stole this nomination. Now let me say something. Andrea Riseborough was a bad bitch and fucking to Leslie. I love that nomination. I wish she were in. And I also but I also wish Danielle Deadwyler where and maybe she should have taken that spot away from Michelle Williams in the fable. Menz Speaking of a barbed wig, what the fuck was going on there anyway? Danielle Deadwyler is in the new movie The Piano Lesson, based on the August Wilson play. You remember Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom? Remember Fences? The movie Fences was much better than Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom. But anyway.

 

Ira Madison III And the piano lesson.

 

Louis Virtel You hated the movie?

 

Ira Madison III I didn’t hate it, but the Fences is a much better.

 

Louis Virtel I would definitely say Fences is the best. And then Piano Lesson and then Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom. Anyway, though, this girl is running amok in this film. She is unbelievable. She is, to me, the clear frontrunner and best supporting actress. This Ariana Grande Day conversation is getting a little too uncomfortable for me. Do I need her to get an Oscar nomination now? Do I need her to get a win? No. Just be in the conversation. I’ll allow the nomination. But anyway, I haven’t seen anything like this performance this year, and I’m just stressed that she’s going to get left out.

 

Ira Madison III Do you think that Ariana winning an Oscar will motivate Lady Gaga to keep trying to get one, or do you think she’ll finally be like, okay, let me stop and keep making music?

 

Louis Virtel Well, let me just say, two months ago, people were talking about Joker folly. I do like Lady Gaga was going to be in this conversation we’re having right now. And instead, she’s in a box on the street at a garage sale where I don’t even know the address. Okay. Will she keep trying? I don’t know. It’s hard for me to tell what Lady Gaga actually likes doing. Now, if I was, I would assume acting. She’s more into since it remains newer and there’s something for her to conquer there. But even like Disease, which was a pretty good song, I’m not getting the sense that she’s loving pop music anymore. I don’t know. That’s just a guess on my part.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Daniel Deadwyler is also in. I saw the TV glow this year.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, of course. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And I’m looking forward to her being in this horror movie, The Woman in the Yard next year. But I need her to start being in more shit. I mean, obviously tell and the piano lesson, like, they’re big major movies, but I mean, I love her and I like, want more for her.

 

Louis Virtel She’s going to take all the roles. I’m telling you, like, wait for it. Now we’re in this moment before she really begins. She is going to take off the minute she’s on screen. You’re like more of that, please.

 

Ira Madison III Also an American actress. You know, I was like, I’m not one of those people who’s like, British people stop taking our roles because I love. Cynthia Erivo But are, you know, like British people are always all up in shape, always winning roles and.

 

Louis Virtel Always in the prestige.

 

Ira Madison III I think Brontez Purnell went on a rant, a very funny rant about this on his Instagram the other day. But you don’t see them getting awards at the buffets, right? So stop handing them shit.

 

Louis Virtel They’ve had enough. No, No kidding.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m really excited about this Oscar race. I think it’s going to be messy. It’s sort of reminding me of back when we were like, You think Elisabeth Moss is going to be nominated for Invisible Man?

 

Louis Virtel Right? And we’re just like, staying stupid. We’re all just completely wrong. Something interesting about this year, you’ve got Adrien Brody in the Brutalist and Nicole Kidman in Baby Girl, which I’ve seen. And if they both won, that would be a repeat of the time they won 22 years ago. That’s never happened before.

 

Ira Madison III Halle Berry, stay home.

 

Louis Virtel Woof. That was so rough. Yeah, but apparently the Brutalist is amazing. My friend Tony won’t shut up about it, so.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So I need to see the Brutalist. But yeah, I’m excited for the Oscar season. Whatever. It’s going to shake out.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, Danielle, we’re pulling for you. Come on, Keep It, please.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And also shout out to the Gotham Awards, which air which were on Monday night at best film went to A Different Man, which has largely been ignored. All award season. But I think that everybody is aces in that movie.

 

Louis Virtel You’ve seen it?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. A different man. I saw I was at the premiere in New York and it is a fucking amazing and truly one of my top five films of the year.

 

Louis Virtel I think it’s going to play this year. I think there’s something about that movie that the Oscars conversation needs. I think everybody is going to gather around it, too.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. All right. Well, that’s our show this week.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you to Mark-paul Gosselaar for being normal and rad. Isn’t it so nice when actors are just like, Yeah, let me let me unpack this and be chill and talk about fucking whatever you want. Quieres.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Also, he didn’t say queers to us. I inserted that.

 

Ira Madison III He could have.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right over, I woudld have been down.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. All right. We will see you next week. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Chris Lord and Kennedy Hill. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, Louis Virtel and Kendra James.

 

Louis Virtel Our digital team is Megan Patsel, Claudia Shang and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.