"Who's Oontzin' Who?" w. Joel Kim Booster | Crooked Media
Pod Save America Live NYC & Boston guest hosts just announced! Get Tickets Pod Save America Live NYC & Boston guest hosts just announced! Get Tickets
June 22, 2022
Keep It
"Who's Oontzin' Who?" w. Joel Kim Booster

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss pop’s house music revival courtesy of Beyoncé and Drake, J Lo’s new documentary, the end of The Wendy Williams Show, Jeopardy handwriting errors, and the conservative uproar over Lightyear. Plus, Joel Kim Booster joins to discuss Fire Island, the pros and cons of queer representation, and his new comedy special Psyschosexual.


This year Crooked Media’s Pride fund is supporting three incredible organizations that provide community building, gender affirming, and life saving resources to the queer and transgender community. Visit https://crooked.com/pridefund   to learn more, donate, and take action.




Ira Madison III: Season three of The Village from CBC podcast transports listeners to the early 1990s, just like Beyoncé did. As AIDS tightens its grip on major cities around the world and the relative safety of Montreal’s nightlife attracted gay men. But when they start turning up dead, the queer community has more to fear than the disease. Okay. Beyonce didn’t release a murder mystery, but if you’re into that, you should check out The Village. It’s about a group of queer activists who start making connections and rise up to start a movement that would end up changing thousands of lives. So listen to The Village now everywhere you get your podcasts. And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It . I’m Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel: I’m Louis Virtel. We’re recording this on the longest day of the year, if I’m not mistaken, which I feel like I always need to commemorate in some way, like go out and hang out outside and enjoy the moment. Did I mention that I find summer stressful? Like I need to enjoy it immediately or I’m failing. Anyway. I don’t I don’t go to therapy. Okay.


Ira Madison III: Girl, you don’t like fall. Summer stresses you out. What season is for you?


Louis Virtel: Summer is for me, though. It’s just a handful.


Ira Madison III: Okay. All right. My season is the one of love.


Louis Virtel: Okay. Oh, that would be 67. Summer of Love.


Ira Madison III: Yes. Well, I’m talking about my 525600 minutes.


Louis Virtel: Oh, I see. Oh wait that’s a year, but alright.


Ira Madison III: A year in the life is an entire season of love. Okay.


Louis Virtel: Oh, that’s right. Yes. Which, which Rent character are you mostly? Would you say.


Ira Madison III: Um. That’s an interesting question. You know, with whatever whatever gays are around asking, who are you? No one ever asks. Like, which Rent character are you? You know?


Louis Virtel: Right. And they are disperate entities. I mean, like, it’s I mean, that’s sort of the strength of the musical is that you do get really distinct characters on it. I do feel that Mimi is the most annoying, so I feel like as somebody who spouts Hot Takes for a living, I would have to say Mimi. But.


Ira Madison III: Um, you know, I am constantly looking for a bag on the floor.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III: Speaking in third person, they call me. Mimi. Um. I don’t know. I’d probably end up being like. Mark? No, I wouldn’t be, Mark. You know what I think? I think I’m more Roger. Probably an angry artist. I would yell at people to get out of my home.


Louis Virtel: Okay. And you find that to be his signature thing.


Ira Madison III: He’s always like, Get out. Who are you?


Louis Virtel: What a movie. What a movie that nobody has watched in 17 years. I remember that came out in college. We were all obsessed with the idea of it, and then I sort of lump it in my brain with. I don’t know what else was coming out that time. Like it’s the Notebook is what we remember from that time or Mean Girls. Not that movie, anyway.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. Who would you be?


Louis Virtel: I mean, I guess I would have to say, Mimi, where you’re not paying attention a second ago.


Ira Madison III: Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought you were. I thought you were dragging me.


Louis Virtel: Oh, that too. No, I think we’re bothMimis and I think it’s unfortunate.


Ira Madison III: You think we’re both Mimis. You know what? I maybe we.


Louis Virtel: I certainly dress like Mark once upon a time. I mean, I remember the age of H&M. You know what I’m saying?


Ira Madison III: Baby,I saw you going into the gay bar the other day, and I like I had a wistful look. I was like, Louis dresses so well now.


Louis Virtel: Oh, that’s true. I mean, like, I definitely dressed less like I made the t shirt myself on an app.


Ira Madison III: Less like it’s your first day at Hogwarts.


Louis Virtel: I’ve had a few eras. When I moved to L.A., I forgot this. It was in January, to be fair, but it was Los Angeles, so it was still not acceptable. I wore a scarf wherever I went. If you’ve ever been in Los Angeles, it is basically impossible to wear a scarf. You are hot almost immediately, even if it’s like in the colder part of the evening. It’s rarely cold enough that you would ever wear a scarf. I also weighed 30 pounds, so it was just a matter of keeping my bones together.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel: You know, like the girl with the red string around her neck, that kind of thing.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. You know, I think I’m going to land on Mark, you know, struggling filmmaker and, you know, commiserating with someone else about the person who dumped us.


Louis Virtel: That is you. I agree.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Yeah, that’s me.


Louis Virtel: You also looked a little like Tintin, which I am instinctively into.


Ira Madison III: I also have not congratulated you on making the logo 30.


Louis Virtel: Oh yeah. Yeah. This logo does a little commemorative thing every year where they put a bunch of queer people in a list and say, Hey, look at these queer people out there being queer. And I ended up being one of them, which I assume means they went through the entire cast of Fire Island already. So there’s actually Conrad Ricamora is on this year’s list. So I’m ranked among I’m ranked with him. And I have to say that feels good because I have an instant insane crush on him at the moment.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, him. Our friend Terrance is on the list.


Louis Virtel: Who goes by  Social B on social media, which is like he runs parties in New York.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. No, this means that, like, it’s a you’re here moment.


Louis Virtel: Sure.


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: I just want to say that I’ve been here for a fucking long time, so to only be here now, it’s like Shelby Lynne winning the best new artist Grammy when she’s, like, grizzled and in her seventies or whatever she got. She’s like, Jesus, what I’ve been doing all these years, we’ve.


Ira Madison III: We’ve just discovered who Louis Virtel is.


Louis Virtel: Did you know he likes the Oscars? I guess he’s been on some game shows. That’s all you need to know about me, actually


Ira Madison III: That’s still how I describe you sometimes. Yeah. I’m like, you know, the one on Jeopardy who did the snap? And they’re like, Oh, yeah, I love him


Louis Virtel: Mm hmm.It is really communicate my entire entity. I told you one time I was at the. I was I was working at the Emmys with Kimmel doing a backstage bit with Guillermo and this is a few years ago now. And I walked out and RuPaul comes up to me, puts his hand in his shoulder, kisses my cheek and goes, I know you. I use that Jeopardy gift all the time. Slay, mama. How about that?


Ira Madison III: I’m shocked that RuPaul knows how to use a gif. Yes.


Louis Virtel: I want to know the context. Who’s he sending it to.


Ira Madison III: I imagine RuPaul has green bubbles. I’m sorry. RU is typing on an Android farm.


Louis Virtel: Also, Well, that segways nicely into our topic today because the song Text Go Green is a highlight off Drake’s new album.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, we are actually getting into all of our specific areas today. Drake. Beyonce.


Louis Virtel: Yes.


Ira Madison III: Jeopardy for you.


Louis Virtel: Right. We’ll get to that.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And Wendy Williams.


Louis Virtel: That’s basically. Yeah. Mount Rushmore. You ever heard of it?


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And of course, Joel Kim Booster is here from Fire Island.


Louis Virtel: Which is it’s a thrill to talk to him just anyway, because he’s our friend. We’ve known him for a hundred years. I used to write with him on Billy on the Street, and that’s where I met Joel Kim Booster. But obviously Fire Island is the new movie, an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice that takes place on the gay vacation isle. And we talked to him about enlisting a couple of his friends to be in the movie. Bowen Yang has been here before, Matt Rogers has been here before. And get into the specifics of what makes Fire Island so magical. And I’m thrilled to hear it because I will be there in a week and a half.


Ira Madison III: So will I.


Louis Virtel: Will you? Are you there for fourth?


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: Oh. Let me just say this about Ira. I will just be out in the world. I’m telling you, I could go anywhere. I could fly to Burkina Faso. You get off the plane and the person greeting you says, Oh, that’s so weird. Ira was just here.


Louis Virtel: Like It’s constantly cat and mouse. Casino Royale. Carmen Sandiego.


Ira Madison III: So we are one of those spy movies, which is we, we record a  podcast together, but we’re also hunting each other down, and one of us will win.


Louis Virtel: Mr. and Mr. Smith. Yes.


Ira Madison III: All right. We’ll be right back with more. Keep It.


Ira Madison III: <A.D.>.


Ira Madison III: I will say that one thing about being in the beehive is actually a bit like a spy versus spy, Mr. and Mr. Smith, as we were just talking about, because she takes so long between her releases now that you’re almost sort of dormant as a beehive member, like, like you’ve experienced bee during Beyoncé releases, but that goes away after a bit.


Louis Virtel: Right? No, I mean, because it could it could feasibly never happen again, too, right. Like you are you you never are even aware of where Beyonce’s head is that during the dormancy period, she’s not active on any social media, doesn’t give interviews. In fact, her interview game is still unmatched in terms of her elusiveness. She feels lightly like witness protected at all times. And but that’s what makes a release of hers particularly exciting, is that she’s so intentional with what she does and what she releases that once you hear you’re getting music, you’re like, What the hell has she been thinking about for the past five years? I guess we’re about to find out.


Ira Madison III: She is a bit of the Zodiac killer when it comes to interviews.


Louis Virtel: Right, though the actual Zodiac killer is, of course, Taylor Swift. That’s right


Ira Madison III: But she recently confirmed that her long awaited seventh album, Renaissance, will drop on July 29th, a day after my birthday. So I’m just deciding it’s my birthday gift. And for the first time in forever, she’s doing an album rollout. She did like a Vogue cover, British Vogue. And she dropped a single.


Louis Virtel: We have to be thankful for these things that every musical artist does except her.


Ira Madison III: Her single, Break My Soul, she dropped, by the way, on Tuesday instead of Friday, which, if you recall, I believe she was the one who started getting people to release their music on Friday when she dropped her album.


Louis Virtel: Yes, right. I remember that. Exactly. The self-titled album.


Ira Madison III: Became new music Friday. And, you know, if we want to be the old people on the podcast for a minute, music used to come out on Tuesdays like you would go to the record store on a Tuesday.


Louis Virtel: No me begging my mom to take me to BestBuy to buy Under Rug Swept by Alanis Morissette in about February 2002 and picked me up from play practice. I’ve actually just admitted way too much about myself. I’m going to go ahead and  slow down.


Ira Madison III: Obviously I’m obsessed with the song, but what do you think?


Louis Virtel: Get this. I thought I went in nervous because I had heard, okay, it’s going to be a dance record, which I was excited about. And then a couple of my friends heard it before I did, and two of them were like, It’s terrible. Don’t even listen to it. And I said, Okay, well, I’ll get to it when there’s time, I guess. And I took my time. I went, got food, came back. I fucking love it. The Robin-esque single is great. It’s so appropriate for a fucking pride month. It’s. I like her dabbling in the, like, early nineties house, sweaty, you know, Groove Is In The Heart is on the radio all the time. Kind of vibe. That Crystal Waters vibe feels very appropriate for her. I love the dance ability of it, just in general. I’m surprised people don’t like it. Do they not like to dance? I’m confused.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, I’m surprised too. I’m like I. But I think the girls need to put down the Xanax. The girls need to turn off Lana Del Rey.


Louis Virtel: Please.


Ira Madison III: Like we have been enduring, just like years of, like, sleepy, depressed music, pop music.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: And I’m glad that she was like, you know what? We’re going to dance again. And two like, I love that she took her time with the nineties revival.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, because there have been some versions of it. You know, we’ve gotten the Dua LIPA album, we’ve gotten the Lady Gaga album. And let me just say, if there’s one thing I’m excited about regarding the Beyoncé album, it’s that we can put away future nostalgia for ten fucking minutes. I’m sorry, we are on our third summer of this damn album. It’s not that I don’t like it. I always like hearing Levitating, which is like up by The Twist in terms of biggest songs of all time. Apparently. Look at the all time list of number of billboard hits. They keep a running list of just the biggest songs ever, which is very baffling. But first of all, The Weeknd is now number one with Blinding Lights. Two is The Twist and Levitating is like 31. And that seemed crazy to me until I realized I never have stopped hearing Levitating.


Ira Madison III: I love it. You said blinding whites by accident. Because because.


Louis Virtel: Why didn’t I get that call? Like we’re making a video, sweetie.


Ira Madison III: Because two, a certain set of white people listen to pop music. They would tell you that like a house disco is like basically what future nostalgia and like The Weeknd is. And I love that this little nostalgic moment with Drake two will get into that it’s just this is actual house music. It’s black people reclaiming house music and like I love that there’s now people on there’s people on Twitter like actually sort of discovering that it is a black genre like coming, you know, from like Black and queer deejays in like Detroit, Chicago, you know, and it’s.


Louis Virtel: You would be a fool to think white people came up with that. I’m sorry. Are people lost?You know, probably came up with that someone who looks like Sherry Louis.


Ira Madison III: You got to be like Gabrielle Union in Bring It On, I know you don’t think a white girl came out with that.


Louis Virtel: Yes.


Ira Madison III: But I think that, like, they’re so fiercely protective of their music legacies and like Detroit and Chicago and then it’s a bit more loose in the rest of the U.S.. Mhm. You know, New York, New York as well. But you know, New York is like there’s room for everyone. When it comes to night life.


Louis Virtel: But there’s so much amazing dance music in the genre of this song that she’s evoking on purpose, and I hope people investigate something I’m always bringing up. Hey, Mr. Deejay by Zhane, which is my favorite kind of cook out ready dance song. But there’s a ton of other songs like this. Do you know who Eighth Wonder is?


Ira Madison III: Yes.


Louis Virtel: Which is Patsy Kensit, who used to date one of the Gallagher brothers from Oasis. Think she became a British big brother celebrity at some point. Anyway, she has a song called I’m Not Scared. That always gets me amped for the summer. It’s like moody and sexy.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel: There’s great course, Robin as herself as. I mean, that song is eternal. It’s like, you know, finally by C.C. Penniston. Or Groove Is In The Heart of any of those songs.


Ira Madison III: I mean, it is so rude of her to do this to Charlie S-E-X.


Louis Virtel: Rights, which didn’t dawn on me until my eighth listen.


Ira Madison III: I also what to also wonder, do you think one, and we all know that I’m a Charlie SEX. Actually, I said. Do we think that what Beyoncé had heard, Charlie SEX’s Used To Know Me with samples Robyn S as as well. And do you think that Beyoncé does who Charlie SEX is?


Louis Virtel: I’m going with no. And also. No, I think. Well, it’s hard. No, it’s not. I’m going to go with no, by the way, thinking about what Beyonce knows about is just a fun philosophical game in general. I already brought up Billy on the street before. One of the things I’m proudest about is a line I wrote for Billie to scream at strangers is Do you think Beyoncé has ever said the words Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt out loud? Did she tune in? Was she into the antics of Carol Kane? I’m going to say no.


Ira Madison III: I think she’s maybe watched some of it, but as it is with some black people when they watch the show. You don’t use the title like sometimes you use the actor’s name or you use part of it. I think she’s probably said to Jay like, Are you ever watch that Kimmy girl ?or you are you want to watch some of that Kimmy?


Louis Virtel: Right? Do you like she might know Titus Burgess by name, right?


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Mm hmm. Okay.


Louis Virtel: That’s sort of the end.


Ira Madison III: She’s definitely. What? So here’s the thing. Like, so Beyonce’s, you know, is working with The Dream again. She’s going to be working with Raphael Saadiq. She’s allegedly like working with Honey Dijon does on on this album like I think she knows producers she might know Charlie’s name only because I’m sure she’s heard Fancy and was like right. Who made that? Right.


Louis Virtel: I remember when Fancy had the world in its grip. I remember desperately wanting to be remixed with the Reba McEntire fancy. And then because the internet was the way it was, it occurred.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. She’s had a chokehold. She did have a chokehold in the music industry for quite some time. For someone who is still sort of bubbling under.


Louis Virtel: Yes. Right. Well, Charlie SEX also has that kind of Ava Max, Jessie J problem where there’s recognizability and talent. But it’s not really about I know what you look like. You know, you wear a pop outfit and you always have a pop haircut. But then otherwise, question mark for a face.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Sometimes you have to go really overboard. Like, honestly, Gaga knew what, like, was a historian of pop music. You know, she knew what a pop star looked like she knew what she was going to make us, you know, like, remember about her. And she did it every fucking day. And it was like emblazoned in your head, like, okay, Alexander McQueen heels, meat dress, you know, like, like shit like that.


Louis Virtel: And even when she emerged, when she had the hard white yellow bangs and the crystal and looking leotards, it was almost like she was doing a play on a pop star. Like it was I don’t want to say it was mocking the idea of a pop star, but it was so bawdy and so like a hyper energized version of something like a Madonna or whoever preceded her, that it became memorable and also cheeky. And then, of course, she added the things like the meat dress and.


Ira Madison III: All the paparazzi.


Louis Virtel: That came later.


Ira Madison III: Itself. You know, the VMA is like her first like live performance was really just sort of like a commentary on like what the music industry did to pop choice.


Louis Virtel: Right. No, exactly. Like she emerged as somebody who understood everything about pop, whereas now it feels like the way pop stars generally dress. And I am not including Beyonce in this. It feels like they’re just actually doing the performance you see in Vox Lux, which they’re wearing that kind of spangled outfit. They’re doing those kinds of half moves. There’s half hooks in the music. You know, it all kind of kind of ends up blending together. And they don’t stand for anything other than a preexisting idea of a pop star.


Ira Madison III: And the fashion is boring, like the fashion they wear in their everyday life when they’re caught, or whether on the red carpet it’s boring. The only fashion it makes, it’s like it’s baffling to be that. Like the only girl that we are constantly talking about on the red carpet is Zendaya.


Louis Virtel: Right. Also, I think a big problem is we don’t know how to nurture great personalities anymore. It’s all about having your team that knows the moves of pop and you’re just repeating those moves that, you know, repeating those footprints that have been stepped in time and time again. And maybe I’m just a billion years old. Yeah. Yeah. Likability. Right. The worst word. The lady trap. Likability.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. But anyway, I do like this. There are some people who are liking it. But, you know, I’m excited for this album. I’m excited for the summer it’s going to bring.


Louis Virtel: I also think it’s a nice about face after I guess the last thing she gave us is Black Is King, which I kind of thought she was moving in a more proverb oriented direction, shall we say. And for her to just say, like, all right, let’s actually just move around for a little bit, you know, let’s jump into the splits on a pride float 1991 for a little while.


Ira Madison III: Well, you know, when a recession hits, you know, the music usually gets nasty and the dance floor gets crowded.


Louis Virtel: Wow. Now you’re like a historian. I love this CNBC take on gay music.


Ira Madison III: Well, as you know, when the recession hits, the dance floors tend to get crowded and the music nasty, as Janet Jackson proved when she released Throb. Anyway.


Louis Virtel: Now it seems like you’re excited about this Drake album, which I did listen to. And I have to tell you, he has a habit of kicking this party into first gear. I would love it to get out of the. It’s an Xanaxerie. Not the dancerie. We’re in the Xanaxerie.


Ira Madison III: You don’t love the album.


Louis Virtel: I just I’m not somebody who is in a club with his head hanging low, which I believe is Drake’s whole thing.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. You know what I would say? That the version of House he’s giving us on the album is a bit more ketamine bops. And Beyoncé said if the nineties are back, cocaine is back.


Louis Virtel: Right. So she is a better historian than he is what your’re saying. Yes.


Ira Madison III: Well she just wants us to dance and Drake, you know, is Drake is still trying to fuck you on the dance floor.


Louis Virtel: Right. But I’m just saying, I feel like that’s going to be more possible for him if we’re all moving quite a bit and, you know, in a sexual mood as opposed to, you know, doing the Jessie Ware sleeping in the club thing.


Ira Madison III: Where you always find a way to come for Jessie Ware’s album, you are such a cunt


Louis Virtel: Honestly, I had no intention of harping on this for years and years as I have, but she brought it up on a podcast once and said she was like, Louis said that I was sleeping and now I’m like hyper amped. I’m like, This makes you notice me anyway. It’s like, Nurse Betty. I’m crazed.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. I, I have never felt more energized than what I saw her alive, by the way. So


Louis Virtel: No, she’s fucking cool. Also, I was surprised to hear her on a podcast multiple times, which means she has some semblance of a personality, so she’s way ahead of the game in most ways.


Ira Madison III: She has a podcast about cooking.


Louis Virtel: Which is so cherry of her.


Ira Madison III: You know, we could launch a cook, an offshoot of Keep It, but I’m sure Crooked Media already has six cooking podcasts in development.


Louis Virtel: Also, I can’t cook. So yeah. You do not. Like, I’m going to Fire Island in a couple weeks and we’re divvying up dinner duties and I’m like, All right, Louis, what day will you take? I’m like, I am going to be going to the pantry. You guys will starve. I need to not do this.


Ira Madison III: I would never trust you to cook unless there was a rat underneath your hat. Yeah.


Louis Virtel: No, right. There needs to be some magical realism, otherwise you’re not getting the fucking soup or whatever.


Ira Madison III: When we go get ham sandwiches.


Louis Virtel: Even I really. I wouldn’t even know what bread to get .


Ira Madison III: This the specific thing about Drake where it’s. He will like discover a genre. Uh huh. You know, sort of like vulture it. And it’s it’s it’s shocking, actually, that, you know, like, this is just, like, sort of like a. A Black American album is a House album, so it’s like it’s digging into these roots and, you know, it’s like one of the first times he’s done that. Instead of trying to be British or some grime rapper or what or, you know, like try to act like he’s from the islands just because he’s in love with Rihanna.


Louis Virtel: Right. I remember it’s always fresh on my mind that he has that Aaliyah tattoo. That is both key to me in terms of realizing why his potential for cool and also potential to just be a boring guy who’s into hot girls and that’s his whole vibe.Anyway.


Ira Madison III:  Yeah, having an Aaliyah tattoo is actually maybe one of the, like, coolest and uncoolstest things about him.


Louis Virtel: Right? That’s what I mean.


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: God. God loves Aaliyah’s music, by the way. You know who I think should have a house era and maybe people are going to throw fruit at me. I don’t know. Bruno Mars. Because he’s already dipped into that era with the 24 karat gold, whatever that Michelle Ndegeocello famously called a pastiche and wondered if it was art at all. But anyway, I feel like he dances, you know, well enough that his version of House would be fabulous.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. Okay. I try to think of who I would like to see do a house album. I will say, you know that, like.


Louis Virtel: Besides Reba.


Ira Madison III: The Black Eyed Peas.


Louis Virtel: That they would have to regenerate. They are, as you know, primordial slime.


Ira Madison III: Well.


Louis Virtel: They would have to come back up through the sewer to life.


Ira Madison III: They have a new song with Shakira called  Don’t You Worry.


Louis Virtel: Oh, speaking of Shakira, I assume you watched the J.Lo documentary on Netflix and documentary. I am putting in quotes within quotes.


Ira Madison III: It is not a Documentary.


Louis Virtel: Blow job of all time.Yes


Ira Madison III: It is. It is givingTic Toc and Instagram stories that were recorded while she was on the Hustlers press tour.


Louis Virtel: Right? Yes. And. Okay. Here’s the thing. It’s actually a pretty fascinating document just to see what goes into being J.Lo. Of course, you know, it’s a ton of work and she is an underrated actress in certain ways and it gets directly into her not getting the Oscar nomination for Hustlers, a movie that she dominated, that she was definitely the best part of, that it would have been a fine nomination and a fun nomination for the category.


Ira Madison III: She was cinema for a year. Like, yeah, like everyone was talking about what you liked it or didn’t like it or thought it was under overrated or underrated. Or you’re like her getting an Oscar? Like everyone was talking about J.Lo that year.


Louis Virtel: Totally. And instead, we gave it to Kathy Bates for a performance in which she didn’t even try. So it’s a strange year.


Ira Madison III: Do you think Kathy Bates remembers being in Richard Jewell?


Louis Virtel: No, please. She she barely even looked at the check. I don’t even think she knows what she got paid for it. She was too busy getting 100 texts from Ryan Murphy a minute. She can’t pay attention to that. But anyway. It gets into what I think is the problem with J-Lo generally. Not that she’s not a dynamic entertainer. We obviously saw her in Vegas. Wonderful songs. Waiting for Tonight is eternal. Her entire persona, as she outlines in the prep for the halftime show, she’s like, oh, well, we got to have like pop era J.Lo. Then we got to get I’m still here, J.Lo, and then also mom, J.Lo. That’s not a persona. Not her. Her whole thing is I wanted to be a star and now it’s you can’t make me not be a star. There has to be a little bit of meaning somewhere in the middle. And I think J.Lo ultimately doesn’t really know what she stands for.


Ira Madison III: She stands for everything.


Louis Virtel: So she stands for whatever’s nice.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And you get that in her movies where, you know, she’s always, like playing a nice sort of white woman.


Louis Virtel: A nice sort of white woman starring J.Lo.


Ira Madison III: With with a white husband. You know, it’s every movie, you know, and it’s is that which, that where she has to be, she has to be Latina for the plot.


Louis Virtel: Right. Yes, yes, yes. I haven’t watched Selena recently. I assume that still like an at least an A-minus performance.


Ira Madison III: It’s good. I mean and listen. I thought I thought Encante was good.


Louis Virtel: I also did watch Marry Me in the past few months. And I do have to say, I wish I watched anything else.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Marry Me is abysmal.


Louis Virtel: What was the good part? Is my question. What was the thing they wanted me to tune into?


Ira Madison III: Maluma.


Louis Virtel: Oh, yeah, that’s right. Oh, yeah. Maluma getting to be just a true bastard was an interesting career choice for him. I like it.


Ira Madison III: I like that. I like that for him. Can’t act. But.


Louis Virtel: No.


Ira Madison III: Beautiful.


Louis Virtel: Does have sunglasses and I believe is like five one.


Ira Madison III: And has presence.


Louis Virtel: Yes.


Ira Madison III: You know, I mean, is the presence.


Louis Virtel: Facial symmetry.


Ira Madison III: It’s impressive that gays were obsessed with him? I don’t know. I will say lastly on this, the Drake and Beyonce-ness. Everyone. Like, obviously, like, you know, like people beat a joke to death now, you know, and like the whole joke now is like Drake made the album for the gays, it’s for the fagots. And I’m like, All right, girl, he, he, he made some house music. And you all think that it’s for you because you do had a bad while listening to Honey  Dijon remixes and we’re house. Right. But Drake. Drake was thinking about you for this album.


Louis Virtel: To me, it’s not a gay album at all. I mean, I say that not to say that he doesn’t like gay people or whatever, but it doesn’t remind me of clubby good times. It’s like a play on club music.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. But Beyonce. This is for the sisters.


Louis Virtel: Oh, please, no. This song should be belted during pride month by a drag queen on the top of a 7-Eleven. I mean.


Ira Madison III: And she just understands the whole assignment because it’s not just the Robin-esque sample. It’s almost a sort of like Queen Latifah-esque like rap in the center. It reminds you of like my favorite Queen Latifah house song, like, Come Into My House.


Louis Virtel: I don’t know it. I’m surprised. I’m surprised to say I don’t know it .


Ira Madison III: It’s such a good song. You need to listen to it. And the choir at the end. Like, it’s just it’s just and of course, Big Freedia, because, look, it’s not just nineties house music, but it’s also bounce music. And that moment at the end where Beyonce is like singing in the bridge, like, first of all, she also said, I’m bringing back music with a real music length.


Louis Virtel: Yes, yes, please. Thank you.


Ira Madison III: When it when she’s done and then the beat sort of like falls out for a second and then picks back up. Big Freedia is like chanting again. I’m like, this is like a song and it feels like an arrival and it feels like, I don’t know, it felt like when Formation dropped, you know? And you felt like, okay, Beyonce’s going in a new direction, but, like, I know which direction she’s going in.


Louis Virtel: I feel like by the time this episode drops, the video will be out too. Which is better be as thrilling because I have to tell you, you just brought up Formation. I am still not over how good a video that is The layers, in terms of what she’s performing that she she plays both like the lady of the manor in that video, the girl with her hair out the window, just the layer. I mean, it just it reminds me of, I’m sorry to say, like the best of Madonna, you know? And I, I almost never feel that way when I watch music videos. And, you know, it’s usually like Janet did it, Bjork had it. And now I think Beyoncé and Lady Gaga are that level in terms of music video artistry.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, my big my biggest regret is that as much as I feel like the throne is basically ready for Dua and Doja Cat, Doja Cat is the more interesting one to me, but god their videos are so fucking boring.


Louis Virtel: Right. It’s just kind of like down the line, like they’re pretty good. That Dua LIPA video where she’s in, like the seafood restaurant. Ma’am, I do not know who storyboarded this.


Ira Madison III: I will say I like Jojo’s Vegas video.


Louis Virtel: Yes. I mean, I like her. Again


Ira Madison III: I like the song and I her, but the video.


Louis Virtel: It’s just like Nicki Minaj.


Ira Madison III: It’s just there.


Louis Virtel: The thing about Nicki Minaj, if you’re going to be legitimately funny, we have no choice but to sign on like okay funny puts you head and shoulders above other people.


Ira Madison III: Actually you know what? That’s who I want a house album from.


Louis Virtel: There we go.


Ira Madison III: Nicki.


Louis Virtel: I mean I would look yes I don’t love her albums in general so this would be great.


Ira Madison III: I think that layered with also like her just being funny, I think like that would be the album that Drake wanted to make or could never make, actually, to be honest, because he’s lost his sort of like sense of humor.


Louis Virtel: Yes. Yes. It wasn’t giving me ebullience.


Ira Madison III: There’s a reason we call him the male Taylor Swift. They start. They’re funny sometimes, but they’re also a little bit too self-serious to be funny.


Louis Virtel: Right. And it’s constantly telegraphing. But. But I’m in on the joke, but I’m funny in addition to being serious. And it’s a hard mix for them. Taylor Swift generally has that problem anyway.


Ira Madison III: Anyway, when we’re back, Joel talks to us about that island we’re going to and I’m not talking about Doctor Moreau’s.


Louis Virtel: Oh, we should, though.


Ira Madison III: [AD]


Ira Madison III: Our guest this week is the writer and star of Hulu’s Fire Island. And we have never met him before. He’s never been on Keep It before. Both of these are lies. Welcome back to Keep It. Joel Kim Booster. Joel, I just remembered you were on our show when we did an episode at Bonnaroo.


Joel Kim Booster: At Bonnaroo. Absolute Chaos.


Louis Virtel: Which I think like if we put all our demographics together and they’re already interrelated, the one place we shouldn’t be is Bonnaroo. So congrats to all of us for being there.


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah, it was, I believe that night we saw Eminem in concert. Right. Which is definitely, you know, was number one bucket list item for all of us.


Louis Virtel: And for Eminem, he was like, oh, please tell me,  they’re there.


Ira Madison III: Three fagots in the audience. He was very excited.


Louis Virtel: Now, of course, Ira and I both fucking love Fire Island. Since we know you, we’ve heard updates about it for years and years. Such a pleasure to finally see it. Obviously have hundreds of questions, even though tons of our all of our mutual friends are in it. And my first question is regarding that, which is. Obviously you could have made this movie if you just cast people you had never met before. But how important was it for you to make this movie with friends, and what did it add to have your actual friends in the movie?


Joel Kim Booster: So, you know, from the jump, it was always going to be a movie that was sort of honoring my friendship with Bowen, like I was, first and foremost, sort of the plan. I set out to write sort of a story about our friendship. Like, so much of the movie is ripped from the headlines of our friendship. And that was always like from the very beginning he was attached, and that was the only friend that I knew was going to be in the movie. And beyond that, like, it really did come down to people auditioning and I think who was best for the role because like, you know, we know that I know every gay person in this industry, we all do. We know every gay, funny person in this industry. And I would have loved to cast really all of them, but it was like a calculus of like who works together and like what does this friend group look like and what is the texture of the group? And so we really the only other friend that I was able to cast in this movie and sort of the main parts was Matt Rogers, who, you know, I wrote like sort of a toxic, annoying gay person and and that was always earmarked for Matt. And it was one of those things where all you had to do was like, not fuck up the audition and it was his. And, you know, he nailed it, of course. So that was just like so it was really nice to have the three of them on set because like a very grounding presence because obviously it was like there’s a lot of pressure going into making this movie, making this movie for gay people, making this movie as like sort of, you know, one of the one of the big gay rom coms that’s coming out this year. It was a lot of pressure and it was just nice to have like two of my best friends on set, just, like, sort of reminding me that it’s, it’s it should be fun, you know? It should be fun and it should be like it’s not like it’s not that much lower. We’re on set.


Ira Madison III: Mm hmm. One thing I want to ask about Fire Island and it being, you know, this adaptation is, you know, your brand is being funny. Your brand is also being hot, as you say, and your stand out special psychosexual, which we will get to that as well. But this is an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. There’s also this lovely plot point in the film, you know, where two the characters sort of bond over like an Alice Munro. But, you know, so like is reading part of your brand too or like what was it like the Jane Austen of it all that even got you to want to like adapt it in the first place? And like, what is like literature mean, like as a part of your whole, like, culture world?


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah. No, I mean, reading is a big part of my life, I think. Like, it’s not it’s definitely not like the front and center like marquee part of my personality that I put out there. Like, I haven’t figured out a way to make reading an interesting point to bring up in my standup, you know, like I think it’s not necessarily like there’s not really an outlet for that, but yeah, I’m, I’m a big reader and it’s definitely like a big part of my personality. I don’t think it’s like something that a lot of people know about me unless they like caught me reading a book in Palm Springs, do something like that. But yeah, I mean, I, I, the whole genesis of this movie was me bringing Pride and Prejudice to read on Fire Island, the first trip that we ever took with Bowen. You know, like, that’s where the whole thing started. And, and like, I wanted to try and infuse this character with, like, complications because, you know, like, listen, I’ve, I’ve read a lot of critiques of the movie that are like, Oh, this character’s just the stereotype, just a typical, you know, frivolous gay guy who wants to have sex and do drugs and all of this stuff. And I’m always like, did they not see the Alice Munro scene. Like they’re like. Yes, I’m a stereotype. But there’s also more dimensions. They think beyond like stereotypes exist because in part they are real, you know, like gay guys like that exist. But I think the problem with stereotypes is when we don’t move beyond them, like we all three in this in our little zoom boxes, probably all sort of exemplify some version of gay stereotypes to a degree, but we also have dimensions beyond that that sort of complicate those stereotypes. And that’s what I really wanted to do with the movie is complicate the stereotypes a little bit because like when I hear like what is the stereotypical gay guy, I do recognize that a lot of my friends, but then I also recognize that there are so many other things that make us more interesting beyond those things. So yeah, reading was important. I wanted to make sure that I honored, you know, that part of my personality and infuse that movie a little bit with that.


Ira Madison III: Do you see other people with books on Fire Island?


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah, you can see it. You see a couple of people like the people that I could go with, like we’re all hot gay guys who read. Like that is infuriating. But it is. That is like. A big part of I think everybody’s trip is figuring out like what to be treated like, who’s bringing, you know, like conversations with friends versus like who’s bringing down, like, you know, a nonfiction essay book about gentrification. You know, it is like it runs the gamut.


Louis Virtel: I just want to say, when I hear critiques about gay stereotypes, it’s like, you know, there isn’t a straight character in any movie that doesn’t resemble a stereotype of some kind. Right. There’s this special stigma reserved for gay people having any recognizably common traits that we’re all supposed to be afraid of. It’s like it’s 2022. Gay people like having things in common, first of all. And two when this call comes from inside the house and it’s gay people being like, oh, that’s just a stereotype. I think what they’re not admitting is that there is a certain comfort in not being represented in movies. And then when you finally see it on screen, you want to shrug it off. You want to say, Oh, that’s not me at all, because you’ve been sort of luxuriating in feeling unknowable a little bit, you know?


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like, it’s hard for us to see ourselves represented on screen because we’re so used to having to cobble together representation from, like 15 different actresses. You know, like, that’s what we like. We’re used to sort of projecting on our own experience onto other, you know, queering non queer movies that has been, you know, how we’ve navigated the representation game for so long. And then to see it sort of like baldly laid out as like, this should be you, this is reflecting your experience. I get why it’s sort of like rankles people initially, like, oh my God, that’s not me. And I think it’s weird that we’re not afforded the same, I don’t know Grace as like, you know, when people are like, Oh, I see myself and Rooney Mara, even though it’s nothing like your experience, it’s like, give me the same grace as Rooney Mara. That’s, you know, put it on a t-shirt.


Louis Virtel: But did you know that Rooney Mara was supposed to be the star of Vox Lux?


Joel Kim Booster: Really?


Louis Virtel: Yes. Which makes sense, because the daughter character in it who like she grows up to be or whatever it looks exactly like. Rooney Mara.


Joel Kim Booster: Looks exactly like Rooney Mara. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Louis Virtel: Anyway, important note.


Joel Kim Booster: As a Natalie stan, I’m glad we live in this timeline.


Louis Virtel: Now, I want to say also just quickly about the island of Fire Island, there’s a lot of things this movie just does journalistically to sell what it is like, the experience of being there that like I don’t think even I would have guessed about had I not finally gone last year where their favorite parts of the Fire Island experience that you’re glad are now committed to celluloid that now people can just reach to and say, oh, that’s that’s correct. That happens on Fire Island.


Joel Kim Booster: You know what? I think my favorite aspect because the thing is about Fire Island is you’re dipping in and out of these like parties because there’s been just like incredible natural beauty that is surrounding you. The thing is about Fire Island is yes, it’s all gay. And yes, it’s like there’s the parties and all of that stuff. But it’s also like incredibly beautiful to be there. Like there’s so many like visually arresting moments. And the number one for me is like going from tea, like being all like fucked up at tea and then traipsing on down to the boardwalk or  to the dock to see the sunset. Like that is my favorite moment of every Fire Island trip is watching the sunset from that dock and like getting to have two very different versions of that. That experience in the movie was so important to me because those are the moments where it’s like that dichotomy of like, Oh, we were just like surrounded by gay men with their shirts off listening to bad pop music. They drinking, drinking, drinking. And now we’re like, sitting, watching, like we’re one of the most beautiful sunsets you’ll ever see surrounded by your best friends. Like it is those sorts of moments that really make the island really, really special to me.


Ira Madison III: I mean, I’m going for the first time for the 4th of July, so I’m like looking forward to like finding out, you know, what’s representative versus, you know what, I get to experience myself, but I love that of what you were just describing. You know, I feel like one thing I really enjoy about your comedy and just sort of your writing is just sort of like it’s very frankness about like just who you are as a person and, you know, and you’ll make jokes, you know, about sex, but you’ll make jokes about like doing ketamine and other things like that. And I feel like those are moments that can, you know, be like, oh, you know, you’re talking about a party culture. But there could also be moments that lead to, you know, a beautiful moment, like still being awake, you know, like to see like the sunrise, you know, like I thought about that recently. I was just in Barcelona for this music festival, you know, and I was there with friends and, you know, we’re like we were doing drugs and shit. But then like it ends with it’s like 7 a.m. and you get to walk to the beach in Barcelona and you’re watching the sunrise and it’s like, I think those are some of the beautiful moments that people miss out when they think that people are just sort of writing about and representing like toxic sort of gay drug culture on film.


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah. And the thing is too, like, I always want to, like, preface this. My comedy like, I’m not trying to sell people on my lifestyle. I’m just like, I’m not interested in like hiding parts of myself until, like, only, like, sell one part of my life. Like, I’m not like when I talk about ketamine on stage, it’s because I had a funny thought. It’s not because I think everyone should be doing ketamine or even there is. I try to like take the judgment of the lifestyle out of it because it’s just not like it’s just a part of my life. And so, like, if I was like every comic gets to talk about their lives and, you know, whatever funny jokes they have, but for some reason it’s like a little more loaded when I do it because it’s like, Oh, I’m gay. And so now everyone thinks gay people are going to be doing ketamine. And it’s, it’s either that’s not our problem to fix. Like, if a straight person watches my ass and walks away and things like, Wow, are all gay people vapid party monsters? Like That’s not it. All it took was one stand and upset to get a straight person to think that that’s a problem. That is a straight issue to fix, not ours, you know, and that’s what gets that’s why I’m so frustrated sometimes when I see gay people like feeding into that.


Louis Virtel: Let’s you just brought up audiences and it was just something I want to talk about. It feels like it’s a recent phenomenon that a gay comic could go and perform, and most of the time the audience will be filled, maybe with queer people, maybe some straight women, too, but. Do you cherish that demographic in particular, like when you perform? Are you grateful to see a room full of gay people or are you like, Oh, I wish it was more mixed or something? I don’t know.


Joel Kim Booster: It depends. It’s interesting. I’m in San Diego right now doing shows. And last night, I think because of the movie’s release, like, I’m still at this point in my career and when I go to comedy clubs like it is maybe 50% of people there to see me and 50% people who are there because they like the club or they just wanted to go out for a fun night. And so like I am often performing for a very, very mixed crowd of people. And, you know, I don’t necessarily I don’t really adjust my set for the straight people in the audience. But I will say last night was the first time there was a it was mostly I think there were maybe three stray guys like we did like a poll because one of my openers was a straight man and he went out and he was doing his regular set and he was and it wasn’t necessarily working because the audience was of like 200 people. There were only three straight men in the audience. And it was so interesting that he came back backstage and he was like, I’ve never felt so nervous and so scared doing standup in years and years and years. And I was like, You realize that is how I feel every time I go up to a predominantly straight audience, like trying to figure out like if my references are going to hit, like if I should act, what I should adjust and how I should like deal with that. And it’s like, it’s so it was so interesting to me to see a straight friends, an experience that for the very first time I will say and this is something that guide randomly said a lot, and I do think it’s changing with our generation. But like when I perform on say like a gay cruise too, mostly older gay men who are sort of, you know, Gen X and above it is a little difficult because I do find that gay men are much more judgmental of other gay men than they are of maybe a female comedian. You know, like Guy Branum said it, you know, like most gay men, unless they can completely sexualize you and are watching you as a go go boy or stripper or completely desexualize you as a drag queen. They don’t know how to interact with gay men while they’re watching them on stage, you know, and even in movies. And I think that’s part of what we’re seeing like from the reactions to Fire Island too, is that there’s a certain level of like not we are not used, we do not have the training because we’re just now seeing representation. We don’t know how to, how to interact with ourselves on screen or as represented. So when like I do a gay cruise, it’s so funny because like they want Kathy Griffin, they don’t want me, you know? And so I sometimes get more nervous in front of gay audiences than I do in front of straight audiences.


Louis Virtel: I have to tell you, I’m not curious to see Kathy Griffin on ketamine.I love the woman to death. I just think that would be bad news for a lot of us.  I couldn’t love her more. Honestly, I just think it means danger.


Ira Madison III: That’s what she was on when she did the Trump photo. Oh, that’s right.


Joel Kim Booster: He’s getting a lot.


Ira Madison III: Of people speaking of representation and like straight people in the audience is one bit that you have in your Netflix special, Psychosexual, is you know as you point out this straight white guy, Ben, and like get his reactions during your show. And I want to also ask about you mentioned that you know like you’re a person who like reads the comics a lot and you know, I assume you still did that with Fire Island. You know, like how do you sort of get in your mind, you know, when you’re working on something or just maybe once it comes out, you know, you’re thinking about like I’m thinking about how gay people are going to be responding to this. And then also the idea of like I’m thinking about how like Asian people are going to respond to this. You know, particularly I love in your Vulture interview, you know, you talk about, you know, like how you didn’t need like a medal for casting like an Asian love interest. But, you know, like with the film and then like, you know, with your jokes, you know, about your very lovely boyfriend who we love, you know, he’s fantastic, you know? But like, are you in your mind thinking about, you know, like, I’m making these jokes, you know, about, like, whiteness and representation and culture and like, people are still going to be like, point out like, but he has a white boyfriend. Or if Kamran hadn’t been cast in the film, they’d be pointing out like, okay, but the love interest is white. Like, is that something you’re thinking about constantly?


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah. I mean, I’m definitely thinking about it a lot. And I, I, this is the thing is that like, I really do appreciate engaging with criticism in my work, you know, like, I think a large part of the special is response to criticism that I’ve received from all corners of identity, from Asian people, from gay people, from straight people. You know, like I think it’s interesting for me to engage with good faith critiques. I think of my work, there’s definitely tons of bad faith critiques that I think ascribe negative intention to me as a person that like, it’s easy to dismiss that. But I am definitely like, I’m. Constantly thinking about the ways in which I am perceived as a comedian to try and not stay ahead of it. But just also, it’s I think it’s useful to know, like, how people are observing your work and how you’re being perceived. But I will say there is a fine line and it can drive you a little crazy. Like Andrew on the set of the movie, I would like spin out constantly about like, Oh, how is this going to be perceived? How is this going to be taken? And he would just like, sort of like put his hand on my shoulder and be like, Joel, you cannot write this movie for Twitter. You can’t do it. But you’re like, if you get it, it’s a losing game. To try and stay ahead of whatever the discourse is going to be on Twitter, a very small subsection of the people that are actually going to watch this movie. And you just have to try and sound like an honest story. And so it is like a fine line. Often times I do find like especially with regard to the special like it is my special this hour special is like a direct response to commentary around my work previous to this and frustrations around like the representation conversation in general. Like it is so frustrating for me that I cannot just tell a joke in a vacuum and like have it be judged on the merits of whether or not it makes this person laugh or not, which is like what most straight white guys get to go out there and make their jokes. And the only metric it’s judged on if people laugh or not. Like for me, though, it’s like, am I representing Asian people? Am I representing gay people? Well, you know, and it’s so frustrating and it’s like such a double edged sword because I get people come up to me all the time and they’re like, Oh, thank you for representing our community. Thank you for being a representative. And it’s like, it makes me so stressed out because I’m like, That’s not what I want to do necessarily. Like, I wish there were dozens of me out there so that like I was just one other face in a sea of gay Asian comedians so that, you know, it’s not on me to try and be the best representative that I can be for this community. And I’m lucky that there are more and more and more of us coming up right now. Like I can name a bunch of them. Like there’s like so many. Like, Jus Tahn is somebody that comes to mind who I think is an amazing comedian who’s also doing a lot of similar work. Obviously, Bowen is in the same space as I am, but it’s like I just wish that like if the scarcity politics of it, because I think the mainstream industry is like sort of presenting me as the answer for like, oh, you said you weren’t represented enough? Well here’s Joel Kim Booster. And it’s like, no, there has to be more than one of me. Like if I’m being pushed in front of people, like, of course there’s going to be resentment from certain corners of the Asian community or the gay community who don’t see themselves represented in my work. And again, it’s it’s not like my problem and it’s not even necessarily like gay people or Asian people’s problems. It’s that it’s the mainstream like Hollywood narrative, like saying that that is the problem.


Louis Virtel: Now, speaking of that kind of stress, it feels to me like at this particular juncture you’re poised to I don’t know about do what you want, but do one of a number of things. Like, I’m sure people want you to make a sequel to this or follow it up or something similar, or you can probably act in what you want to do or, you know, there’s any number of options. And I was wondering, is that exciting or just a new version of stress? Having to navigate where you, quote unquote, belong after this?


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah, it is. And it’s my bad brain like is full of anxiety now. I think it’s I think ever wish I could just enjoy this moment a little bit more, but like previous to the movie coming out and I was like, Oh my God, everyone’s going to hate this. No one’s going to like this. No one’s going to like this. And now that it’s come out and the reception has been mostly positive, all I can think of is like, Well, whatever you do next is going to be shit and will never amount up to this. It’ll never be as good as like when Fire Island or whatever you’ve just done. And so I’m trying to just like take a step back and really assess like what I actually want to do next and like what I actually want to write next. I think like a sequel is such a funny idea to me and it’s exciting, but it’s also like, I don’t necessarily want to be known as the gay destination vacation writer for the rest of my career. I would like to maybe get it into something else. So I’m just trying to figure out like what even the options are because this is the thing, like I’ve been here before, like I think like right around the same time I was on the show last time, I was like poised to be on an NBC sitcom and people were like, This event is going to change your life. And then that show flopped hard and, you know, nothing really changed. And so I’m very wary of being like, yeah, like when people say, like, this is it, this is going to change everything. For me, that’s sort of like I’m going at it like sort of wait and see and I’ll believe it when I see it. Sort of like.


Louis Virtel: Let me just say about destination cinema though. If you merged with The Best Exotic Marigold franchise, I feel like everybody wins. You and Maggie, you know, long stares, sideways stares. It speaks to me.


Joel Kim Booster: Exactly where I need to go.


Ira Madison III: You know what? Just. I do want to see a gay cruise out there now. Because you made Fire Island amazing. You made Fire Island look beautiful, and I can’t wait to go. But I am iffy on Cruise, gay or not. And I feel like maybe you could change my mind.


Joel Kim Booster: I’m definitely going to do the gay remake of Murder on the Nile, but that’s okay. Yeah. You know, like, that’s that’s that’s the next move is because I have actually always wanted to solve a murder on a cruise, like just in my personal life. So I think, like, you know, that’s definitely I think the next move for me is murder on an Atlantis cruise for sure.


Louis Virtel: Also, because then you could have Sochi, Sophie Okonedo as character in Death on the Nile be the entertainment on the gay cruise. Yeah, like she would still be that person.


Ira Madison III: You know? And you could get Gal Gadot to say something like, I don’t know if there’s enough poppers to fill the Nile.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, yeah. Which that would just be true. It would just be true.


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah, it would actually be true. I will say, like the gay cruises. They are wild. They get the wildest people to perform. Like, every time I go on, it’s like, yeah, the entertainment this weekend we have LeAnn Rimes. And it’s like, how the fuck did you get LeAnn Rimes to come on this gay cruise? And then you see, like a stadium full of gay men chanting LeAnn’s name and you’re like, Oh, this is how you get LeAnn. Like, this is like. Like, I was the first cruise I ever did. Vanessa Williams came on and I was like, How did they get Vanessa Williams to do a gay cruise? And then she comes up for her performance and she’s like, I’m not doing any covers tonight. I’m only doing originals. I was like, Wow, this is how this is how you get Vanessa Williams to do the gay cruise. The only place where you could fill a stadium full of people to listen to her original song.


Louis Virtel: Wow. You got a lot of moody prog rock or something from Vanessa Williams.


Joel Kim Booster: Llike no Colors Of The Wind. Seriously? Okay.


Ira Madison III: All right, I get it. Gay cruises are the soap dish mall scene for all female performance.


Louis Virtel: GOODSELL.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Thank you so much for being here, Joel, and congrats on Fire Island.


Joel Kim Booster: I appreciate that. I will see you both on Fire Island.


Louis Virtel: And also probably just everywhere else. I have bad news for you.


Joel Kim Booster: Yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III: <A.D.>.


Ira Madison III: The Wendy Williams Show recently came to an end after a 13 year run, but the host herself was not a part of the final episode. And Louis How you doin? Because I’m not doing great.


Louis Virtel: I mean, that does make me really sad. It gives me the vibes of Angela Lansbury not being at the Tonys. I want to know more. You know, obviously she has Grave’s disease, has had it for a couple of years, has been out of the spotlight. And Wendy Williams loves broadcasting herself in any form possible. So that is very suspicious.


Ira Madison III: Um, yeah, it’s I feel like, you know, like, you know more about, you know, like talk show and sort of like history, etc.. You know, this is so unusual. So let’s one even keep going. And then for it to just end without her there.


Louis Virtel: Yes. And with the first guest on The Wendy Williams Show, who was Vanessa Williams. Very puzzling. I would want to say about her in general. She is routinely compared to somebody like Howard Stern because she came from radio and, as you know, meant to be shocking. But what she really is, is a divas Rosie O’Donnell, because her whole thing is obsessiveness about celebrity, knowing everything and immediately like like going live to camera to say what she thinks about the celebrity thing, talking to other like minded people, which I thought was one of the great thrills of the Rosie O’Donnell Show, was it felt sort of conspiratorial with, you know, a tabloid loving audience. And there are times on that show when she would just break down whatever issue. And it would be so thrilling to hear her talk about Beyonce and Jay-Z is what’s coming to mind. And obviously, she had some wild statements over the years, her bizarre statements. What’s coming to mind is when she said that. I think, Terry, crews being groped was not actual groping, like she would just come to wild conclusions about seemingly cut and dry situations. But my God, when she was on, she was on. And when she was off, she was downright enigmatic.


Ira Madison III: Yeah, I will say that I agree with like not lumping  her in with like a Howard Stern. Only because there’s a thing about like all sort of like male interviewers where they haven’t had to be sort of very knowledgeable. You know, to put it lightly, you know, like it reminds me of sort of like Larry King, like famously just interviewing people and not doing a lick of research. You know.


Louis Virtel: Larry King, I think I think history will remember him as I don’t want to say a fraud, but I think it might remember him as someone we shouldn’t have given so much kind of prestige cable time slot time to.


Ira Madison III: A scamstress, If you will.


Louis Virtel: Scamstress, yeah.


Ira Madison III: You know, I think I think it was the suspenders and those glasses and definitely the hair.


Louis Virtel: Right.Yes. We just believed it for some reason, even though he would have whatever Kathy Griffin on and just go to sleep for 25 minutes while she ranted about Nicole Kidman.


Ira Madison III: Another sort of person who I think is in line with Wendy just because, you know, Wendy and Kathy, you know, share that sort of that sort of like oratory skill of, you know, you give them one topic. And if you left the room and came back like you went to the grocery store to get cigarettes and liquor and like cups and like ice for the party and came back, she would still be on that same topic, telling that story and people would be enraptured right now.


Louis Virtel: I love when they would cut to the audience on Wendy Williams and people are truly like tugging at their collars like the white guy in the Baby Got Back video.


Ira Madison III: She could truly just like, come out, sit down. My favorite thing is I like her version of the monologue was she’d come out, she’d talk about something. She does what? Like sit with the audience talking for like 15 minutes uninterrupted.


Louis Virtel: Right. And it didn’t seem really planned either. Actually, that’s sort of like Kathy Griffin. Kathy Griffin, when she would do stand up for a long time, would pick bullet points and then just talk through them. And maybe she had a pre-planned joke here or there, but really it was about whatever comes to mind will come to mind. And I’m going to let it kind of unspool in front of everybody. And that was Wendy’s tactic, too.


Ira Madison III: And I think and she like I, I talked about this on the For Colored Nerds podcast, too, but it was like the thing is that she had like a she had respect of like people in the industry, you know, like, like she obviously you have to to be able to have all this gossip, you know, for people to be telling you things, you know, it’s like I think about Hollywood life, right? Like when when they were like, the queen is dead. If Wendy Williams told us the queen is dead on her show, like I’m believing it.


Louis Virtel: Right.


Ira Madison III: Because she because she knows. I would fully believe that she has a line at Buckingham.


Louis Virtel: I just want everybody to know that my first job in L.A. was a different version of Hollywood Life, which I guess still exists. But what’s that woman’s name? Bonnie Fuller at the helm. Man, when I go back and look at tha site,  what.


Ira Madison III: I meant, It’s Hollywood Unlocked. I meant, Hollywood Unlocked, but. Yes, Hollywood Life. Right. And those the the era of, like the Hollywood Life and Pop Sugar.


Louis Virtel: Right. Pop Sugar I felt like at least keeps, just like plugging along there. It’s on the rails anyway. But what’s weird about Pop Sugar is it’s founded by somebody whose last name is Sugar. Isn’t that fucking insane? It’s like the Smart and Final chain out here in L.A., which is a grocery store, is founded by two people whose last names are Smart and Final.


Ira Madison III: I did not know that.


Louis Virtel: That’s really bone chilling.


Ira Madison III: Smart versus Final. I want to see that. Smart v Final. What’s that film?


Louis Virtel: Dustin Hoffman. Meryl Streep. Smart v Final.


Ira Madison III: I guess I will be forever grateful that I was part of the Wendy Williams Legacy. I went on the show and I was talking I was DM’ing with our friend Michelle Collins because she like she was like, oh, dude, it’s probably like post by hot topics like panel, too, as she talked about, you know, how, like just how supportive Wendy was to her, you know, especially what she was going through her stuff on The View. And, you know, she was so sweet. And like, I discovered that the photo I had taken with her, the selfie, was a live photo and in it is where she had told me, like as we’re both posing, she like leans back and says, You’re coming back. You know? Like she enjoyed me on the show and wanted me to come back like that. That means a lot to me. And I was talking to Michelle just about the fact that like basically the pandemic happened like two months, like a month after I was on. And so I wasn’t able to come back, but like we were robbed of the chance of being on the show together. I would love to be on Wendy Williams with Michelle Collins.


Louis Virtel: Oh my god. Also, Michelle Collins really isn’t in line with Wendy Williams in terms of like, listen, I know everything and you may as well just listen to me because I’m not going to shut up about it, you know? I mean, like, she just yeah.


Ira Madison III: We have never there’s sometimes when you have like I KeepIit guest too and they’ve been like I’m like a guest or they’ve been like a guest co-host. It’s like there’s always that balance of like, you know, like matching our energy and, you know, like, not, like, not like doing too little, but not doing the most. But like when Michelle was just talking. I’m just like talking talk and I want to know more.


Louis Virtel: Right. Please. No, I go into lizard brain. I just accept everything she says and I’m like, yes, more of that place. By the way, she was fucking amazing on The View. I know. I’ve said that before.


Ira Madison III: She was, but but I that was an era I watched.


Louis Virtel: God. No, she was so fucking funny. I remember when I’m sure I’ve said this before, somebody on the show said, I don’t like going to museums, like I just want to leave and go get a slice of pizza. And Michelle, without skipping a beat, deadpan to her face, goes, You’re a monster.


Ira Madison III: That’s that’s I would say.


Louis Virtel: The Barnard bitch and Michelle Collins.


Ira Madison III: That is also what I feel like The View is missing. By the way, no one on the panel was really funny at the moment, but Whoopi sort of is, you know.


Louis Virtel: Was mostly just exasperated.


Ira Madison III: She seems exasperated now. She’s just tired of this. She’s too old for this shit. Yeah. The View was her Lethal Weapon, she’s Danny Glover.


Louis Virtel: Her good friend. I want to sum up Wendy Williams by saying I guess my perspective on her is in line with her whole Whitney Houston sort of obsession, which is she reported it generally accurately on Whitney Houston, but also it was extremely dicey. And she also would beg Whitney Houston to come on her show, which she eventually did. And it was the most uncomfortable yet like compulsively listenable conversation of all time.


Ira Madison III: I still listen.


Louis Virtel: Trapped into the ball of fury, that is Wendy Williams. There’s no second one of her.


Ira Madison III: I still listen to that, all the fucking time. And I’m like, truly, we always go back to like, you know, the the Diane Sawyer Whitney interview, right? Yeah. You know, like, crack is whack. Crack is cheap, you know, like that interview. But more people need to be on the Wendy Williams one where she says she will come down to the studio and whoop Wendy’s ass.


Louis Virtel: And by the way, I’ve never believed a human being more. Okay


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And then they I think they they mended the fences sort of later to you know, I think Whitney sort of recognized that like Wendy was reporting accurately, you know?


Louis Virtel: mm hmm. And then, I mean I mean, of course, she was reporting accurately. Yeah.


Ira Madison III: That was our Frost- Nixon, by the way. Whitney and Wendy.


Louis Virtel: The real Frost-Nixon.


Ira Madison III: The real Frost. Fuck Frost-Nixon. What the fuck did Frost Nixon even do?


Louis Virtel: No.


Ira Madison III: I guess it revealed Watergate.


Louis Virtel: Whatever. Yeah. It gave Frank Langella a platform, and he has since been deplatformed via MeToo. So whatever.


Ira Madison III: Who plays Whitney and who plays Wendy in the Frost Nixon, like like depiction of their interview?


Louis Virtel: Okay. So Whitney would have to be like 37 or something. So we’re just we’re saying if it’s like film today. oh God.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Well, you know who’s playing her in the upcoming Whitney biopic?


Louis Virtel: Oh right. I forgot that actress’s name.


Ira Madison III: Is Naomi Ackie. And, you know, she’s good in it. Like, maybe her.


Louis Virtel: Okay. And then who else like is. But for Whitney, that would be who play Whitney Houston?


Ira Madison III: Yeah.


Louis Virtel: And then Wendy Williams. God, who. Who can do that kind of rowdy? Unmatched energy. I’m trying to think of who that would be.


Ira Madison III: I know. I’m like, Kiki?


Louis Virtel: I don’t hate it, but I mean, it would take a couple of years.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and Naomi’s, like, young giving you, like, eighties Whitney anyway. So, like, yeah, yeah. Give us, like, give us like, ten years, and then I’d be there.


Louis Virtel: Okay. Okay. Very good.


Ira Madison III: Well, Sierra Peyton played her on Lifetime, but the less said about that Lifetime movie. The better.


Louis Virtel: Yes. Wasn’t even technically a movie. I am inclined to disagree.


Ira Madison III: But I don’t. I don’t. I can’t think of like people who would sort of be like a successor you know, I’d like I make Sherri Shepherd, shout out to her getting like her new show, but like, that’s not going to be a Wendy Williams show. You know, and I feel like a.


Louis Virtel: Part of me is a little bit sad about that, not because Sherri Shepherd is incapable of hosting a talk show. Obviously, she’s from The View and has hosted a number of things.


Ira Madison III: But like she was funny too.


Louis Virtel: And she is funny and like, I think probably knowledgeable, but she’s just not spicy like her. She’s, she’s just a consummate host as opposed to a consummate gossip.


Ira Madison III: Mhm. Yeah. I mean you remember the time when she was mad at Dr. Oz because like Dr. Oz I had brought up like, um, you know, like the custody stuff like going on in her family and I’m just like sort of like someone, like someone like a Wendy would have, like, would have like fought back with Dr. Oz on the show, you know, like, it it’s it’s you need to be afraid of them as well.


Louis Virtel: Right. Yes. Yes, definitely. Definitely.


Ira Madison III: I’m afraid of Angie Jordan. But now Sherri Shepherd.


Louis Virtel: Certainly. Ham. Of all the 30 Rock Awards, I want to say that comes up the most ultimately.


Ira Madison III: So I would say the one that comes up the most thanks to the toxic Internet meme culture is. Lemonitz Wednesday.


Louis Virtel: Yes. Oh, my God. Which that’s so the like Garfield Mondays of of memory from 30 Rock. Disrespect.


Ira Madison III: Right. Anyway, we’re back. Keep It. We’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. As always, it’s Keep It, Louis. What’s yours?


Louis Virtel: Well, I’m doing my worst this week because I’ve ignored most of the regular pop culture that listeners to this podcast likely enjoy. And I’ve gone with Jeopardy, which I think happens about once every two months. I think it’s a good Jeopardy Keep It..


Ira Madison III: At some point, we’re going to have to rank like Louis’s Top Jeopardy Keep It. You’ve got like 20.


Louis Virtel: Well, I just want to say they’ve had a couple of years that have been extremely wild, so I’ve had no choice but to report on it journalistically. Edward R. Murrow style. Okay. This week, this week, there was a final Jeopardy! Where a contestant who was otherwise killing it, this woman named Sadie in the middle podium.


Ira Madison III: Sadies usually do kill it.


Louis Virtel: You think so?


Ira Madison III: Sadies. You know it’s a good thing.


Louis Virtel: Sadie Hawkins. They’re going to ask you to the dance, don’t you? You don’t have to ask her. It was a question about Frederick Douglass talking to somebody else. And via the clues in the in the final jeopardy answer, it was apparent it was Harriet Tubman. Okay. Well, she wrote down Harriet Tubman seemingly getting to it at the last minute. And we’ll show this on the Snapchat, hopefully. But the way she wrote Harriet Tubman, the first word, Harriet, that’s pretty apparent. The T is crossed. And then in the final word, it says to be A and then the tail on the A sort of lingers and turns into a hump, which I would argue makes it an end and makes the entire words legible. Harriet Tubman You can pronounce all the syllables, which is the requirement for a legitimate jeopardy response. And they declared it an incomplete response, penalized her, and she ended up in third as opposed to winning Jeopardy, which she would have. And I just want to say, they better second chance Sadie. I need to see her back on that show, which which happens occasionally. They bring back contestants who, because of a technicality or something going wrong on the show, they end up bringing somebody back, you know, due to questionable calls, etc.. But anyway, Ira, I have sent you the picture of this. Writing of Harriet Tubman, do you think do you agree with the judge’s do or do you agree with me?


Ira Madison III: Well, first of all, I do not want to see Second Chance Sadie, which sounds like a Malin Akerman and Ashton Kutcher film from 2004.


Louis Virtel: Exactly. Malin Akerman. Yes.


Ira Madison III: And I thought about her recently because two people were watching Malin Akerman films like on the plane yesterday. And I was like, How is it possible? She’s been in two films.


Louis Virtel: But different ones was one of them. Rock of Ages?


Ira Madison III: Yes.


Louis Virtel: Okay. Wow. I can’t believe I pulled that anyway.


Ira Madison III: But this does not say who was Harriet Tubman. Bitch. This is like who was Harriet Tollness? Harriet Tubness.


Louis Virtel: Maybe she’s asking, who’s Harriet Thomas? Does anybody know?


Ira Madison III: You think Harriet Tubman would look at this and be like, that’s my name? Okay.


Louis Virtel: Picture It’s like watching Jeopardy and being like, that’s not me.


Ira Madison III: Okay.


Louis Virtel: I know you meant to bring me up, but that’s okay.


Ira Madison III: I know you think I write like this because you think slaves can’t read, right? But Bitch, I have good penmanship.


Louis Virtel: Honey, honey, honey. I’ve seen a book. Honey, Uncle Tom’s Cabin just came out and I read it. Okay.


Ira Madison III: This is so disgraceful. This is giving, like, doctors signature.


Louis Virtel: Right? And by the way, it’s just like having been on the show. I can say it’s like, what? When you’re signing like that, the credit card thing at Target, that kind of pen. So picture the amount of times you’ve written in that little blank, and it’s not seen legible. It’s. It’s just not the ideal pen for writing legibly.


Ira Madison III: Even the W in her who is shaky though like she she looks terrified. She’s giving woman in the window. She is giving Ellen Burstyn in Requiem for a Dream. Okay. Her head is shaking as she wrote. And that crossing out the H like for Sadie, is going through it.


Louis Virtel: There’s a whole psychological arc in her Who is Harriet Tubman?


Ira Madison III: Oh, yeah. I’m not giving it to her.


Louis Virtel: You’re not. You’re not. Okay, so you guys should fight with us about this. Look up the image itself and tell me if you think Sadie deserved the win. Ira, what is your Keep It this week?


Ira Madison III: Oh, my Keep It goes to conservatives, Republicans, the right this week.


Louis Virtel: Oh, brave .


Ira Madison III: Yeah, it involves the film Light Year.


Louis Virtel: Which I have to say, as I’m a Toy Story stan, I still am not excited for.


Ira Madison III: Yes. So here is the thing. Okay. Conservatives are bad because there is a lesbian kiss. You know, the dikes are getting feisty and Light Year and making out. As it turns out, you know, the plot of the film is that, you know, this is the movie that Buzz, the Buzz Lightyear toy, was made from. And that’s what Andy got in the first Toy Story, which is very weird because the movie opens up with this title car. It was like in 1995, Andy got a Buzz Lightyear toy from his favorite movie. This is that movie. And I’m trying to think of this movie being made in 1995. I don’t think so.


Louis Virtel: That reminded me of that era. That’s not in that era. Yeah. Whereas a young Kate Winslet where. Yeah. Is Mare Winningham, is she there? But Annabella Sciorra.


Ira Madison III: The film involves him going back and forth from this point and trying to break like the, you know, like the speed barrier and he, like, keeps passing through time. And you keep seeing these, like, little, like, moments in time from like his best friend and fellow space ranger who’s on the planet who meets a woman. You know, they get married. They have a kid. That kid graduates on their 40th anniversary. And then that kid has a daughter during really one of the thirties, not even 30 seconds, 10 seconds segment. You see a peck. If you were not looking for it, you would miss it. My friend Drew was sitting right next to me, didn’t even see the kiss.


Louis Virtel: And so reminds me of when it reminds me of when Modern Family finally had a kiss and it was in the background while something else was going on and you could see it, but you basically have to be told to look for it.


Ira Madison III: Right. And that’s my main problem with this entire situation. One,Disney, you know, even sort of like promoting this kiss in the first place because it’s it’s more crumbs from them, like the Beauty and the Beast kiss, you know, like that insane moment in Avengers where someone’s, like, talking about losing their partner. They’re like, this is the first gay representation in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I’m like shut the fuck up. Yeah. I mean, I feel like the kiss at Eternals was an actual kiss. So I will. I will shout out Eternals for doing that. It’s the only thing I’ll shout out Eternals for. But I would say that one, on the Disney side, this is just like it’s useless to promote this. And then on the side of Republicans, you know how like they love a culture war that’s really just, you know, the.


Louis Virtel: Only wars they have.


Ira Madison III: Ever amassed for being.


Louis Virtel: Oh, actually, the other ones too. Never mind.


Ira Madison III: Sure. Well, we share that. Yeah, we. We love a good war, too.


Louis Virtel: Oh, that’s true. No, that. Yeah, you’re right. All hands on deck.


Ira Madison III: Okay. Call me a neo liberal. Cause I love a war. War. What is it good for bringing the country together? Yeah. Winning elections? Um, no. So you’ve got people like Ted Cruz and shit, you know, going after this movie. You got people who are probably bots on Twitter just being like, I went to see this movie with my family and when I saw that kiss, I walked out and so did other people. I’m like, So, you know, a boycott doesn’t involve going to a film to see the point in the movie that you want to object to and then walking out of it. Right. Like like Disney already has your money.


Louis Virtel: Yeah, right. If you’re in the theater, you paid for it.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. And if you’re doing it as some sort of protest, like, you know, that like Disney, like the Disney execs can’t see you walking out, right. It’s not theater.


Louis Virtel: On the other side of the screen, it’s like purple. It’s like purple. Purple Rose of Cairo, looking right at you.


Ira Madison III: And then because the movie didn’t big slay at the box office, you know, now they’re tweeting, hashtag, go, woke, go broke.


Louis Virtel: Okay, that is sad. I hate when they go with word play. It’s it’s not the witty side of the aisle, you know what I mean?


Ira Madison III: It is a shitty, slow, good ad. It’s also goes back to your point that even Toy Story Stans don’t care about this movie. I want to see it because of the controversy and like I wanted to talk about it on the show and I was just like, whatever. Like, it’s a cute way to spend money on Saturday afternoon, but I still haven’t seen Toy Story four.


Louis Virtel: I saw it on a plane and I was happy for the Bo Peep representation since she was, you know, unceremoniously dropped from the third one. But it was it was a lot of running around. I don’t know. It felt like maybe a video game of Toy Story as opposed to like Toy Story cannon. Because among like huge franchises, Toy Story is like the Yale of like blockbuster franchises. Like, Woo Hoo! Who has a record like that? The one that two and three like it beats even like Back to the Future or something like that. You know, up there with Lord of the Rings.


Ira Madison III: The first three movies are iconic and they’re they’re like critically lauded. Audiences loved them. And like, yeah, I never got around to seeing four and I did just happen to see this film, but it’s not like, you know, this was Avengers Endgame, you know, like, it’s not like they, they, they picked a film that probably was tracking poorly and wasn’t going to make a shit ton of money in the first place. So like, congrats, I guess you won, but what’s but I don’t care about this victory against a conglomerate like Disney. Hmm.


Louis Virtel: Yes. Yeah. It’s just they’re making up a reason to have a problem. It’s their whole reason for being. Okay, I want to make anything better. They just want to make somebody feel worse for enjoying something. Right.


Ira Madison III: It’s just. It’s annoying homophobia. Just like this whole, like, fixation on drag queens that brunch right now. You know, it’s it’s very much like we have to hate people for some reason. And it it’s wrapped up in their, like, hatred of Disney for Disney, like opposing like the don’t say gay bill in Florida. But it’s also just like it’s it’s also the the fake anger over Tim Allen allegedly being like ousted from this franchise and like Disney turning its back on him even though Tim Allen is doing a Santa Claus series for Disney.


Louis Virtel: Right. If anybody is concerned about the money of Tim Allen, I need you to join Earth because that man is always working. We gave him that whole last man standing series, which I believe jumped to ten different networks and like. Killed on all of them.


Ira Madison III: So I will say once again, one of the only good things that Tim Allen gave us through Home Improvement was having his costar Patricia Richardson become famous and then giving us her son, Joseph Cassel Baker. Right.


Louis Virtel: It was all predestined via Tim Allen.


Ira Madison III: Yeah. Do you know that Patricia Richardson is also Betty Gilpin’s Godmother?


Louis Virtel: No. What?


Ira Madison III: Yes.


Louis Virtel: We know Betty Gilpin a little bit. And she’s keeping her royal lineage away from us. Yeah, I just remember Patricia Richardson being on that weird show, Strong Medicine for a while on Lifetime.


Ira Madison III: You know, I never watched Strong Medicine, but I did watch Army Wives.


Louis Virtel: I think Army Wives is a little bit after that. But yes, I mean, that is the the prime generation of Lifetime after when they after they produced things like Intimate Portrait for years and years. And I watched every single one of those fucking episodes.


Ira Madison III: I do want to point out that when I say I watch Army Wives, I only watch the Ashanti season.


Louis Virtel: Which is which is like the Shelley Long on Cheers. I understand. Ira


Ira Madison III: Oh, all right. That’s our show this week. So thanks to Joel Kim Booster for being here. And we will see you next week. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. Our executive producers are Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel: And Louis Virtel.


Ira Madison III: Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin our sound engineer.


Louis Virtel: Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot and Nar Melkonian and Delon Villanueva for our production support every week.


Ira Madison III: In order to support our show, we need the help of some great advertisers, and we want to make sure those advertisers are ones you’ll actually want to hear about. But we need to learn a little bit more about you in order to make that possible. So go to podsurvey.com/keep-it and take a quick anonymous survey that will help us get to know you better. That’s podsurvey.com/keep-it. That way we can bring on advertisers that you won’t want to skip. But imagine skipping listening to me and Louis’s lovely voices talk about things that we want you to buy. Once you’ve completed the quick survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Amazon gift card. Terms and conditions apply again. That’s podsurvey.com/keep-it. And thanks again for your help.