Violence Trumps Peace | Crooked Media

DeRay Mckesson: Hey, this is DeRay and welcome to Pod Save the People. On this episode, it’s me, Kaya, and Myles, talking about all the news that you didn’t hear from last week. That is what we normally do. But this episode is going to be a Trump episode. We never, ever do this. And I have tried hard from the beginning of that man’s time in politics to not devote a lot of time, but let me tell you, it feels like what happened over the past couple days is just so much we need to talk about it. So I’m DeRay at @deray on Twitter.

Kaya Henderson: I’m Kaya Henderson at @HendersonKaya on Twitter.

Myles E. Johnson: I’m Myles E. Johnson at @pharaohrapture on Instagram.

DeRay Mckesson: So all of you listening definitely know that there was a shooter outside of the latest Trump rally, who shot at the president. There were two people who were killed at the rally and other people who were injured. You probably also know that the Biden team suspended all campaigning. They took ads off the air. They have gone quiet around the race for president. You probably know that Kamala released a statement. Barack Obama released a statement. The president released a statement. I am interested in what Myles and Kaya you have to say about the attempted shooting of former President Trump. I’ll leave it there.

Kaya Henderson: This is going to be one of those like where were you when it happened kind of situations.

Myles E. Johnson: Yeah. Let’s do reactions. I was like, there’s so much to unfold.

Kaya Henderson: So Myles, where were you?

Myles E. Johnson: So this is such a weird, weird, weird story, which is like my life. So I’ve been on a Tarantino binge. So if I’m being honest with you, I’ve been while walking, working out, eating, and, like, just chilling this summer. And I’ve been on this huge Tarantino binge. And I remember, um because I watch Candace Owens and Trump and I watch all that stuff as much as I watch leftist stuff. So I remember seeing the Trump rally on YouTube live, and I click it and I literally see the blood. And I just finished watching Reservoir Dogs and–

Kaya Henderson: Yikes.

Myles E. Johnson: –the man in Reservoir Dogs gets his ear cut and he’s bloody and then Trump’s bloody. And then there was just something about that like Tarantino binge and and me seeing this, I’m like, when did America become a Tarantino film? So that’s like my story around it because it was such an odd pop culture relaxation entertainment thing meets your actual world politics of actually seeing, um something happening in a rally that mirrors a Tarantino film.

Kaya Henderson: Fascinating. I was on a plane when it happened and did not have my Wi-Fi on, so I wasn’t like getting in the moment things. But as I was landing, I got a text saying they tried to take Trump out. And I was like, what could that mean? Like, I like assassination attempt was so far from the realm of possibility for me.

Myles E. Johnson: Right.

Kaya Henderson: And I was like, what do you mean? And the person replied, and they were like, Trump was shot at. And like, as soon as I landed, I just went down the rabbit hole of, you know, media online and whatnot to see what had happened. And thank you DeRay for putting stuff in our group chat so that we could stay on top of it. Where were you when it went down?

DeRay Mckesson: I was at a birthday party in Brooklyn, and one of my really close friends is, um she does social media for a brand. So she says to me, they just tried to shoot Trump. I said, no, no, that didn’t. She said, no. She showed me. And I was like, I can’t believe it. This feels really wild. And then I saw the picture. I saw the blood. And the first thing that I remember being like, okay, something ain’t right, was that BBC interview with that–

Kaya Henderson: Oh.

DeRay Mckesson: –Trump guy who was like, we saw somebody crawl up the building. We told the police, we told Secret Service. They didn’t do nothing. We were shocked. We saw a rifle like that whole thing. And I was like, something ain’t right. Out what I did not anticipate, though, was I got on Twitter because I was like, you know, people are like, well, we obviously lost in November. Da da da. I get on Twitter and the consensus is it ain’t something ain’t right. And I was like, oh, that was that was fascinating. I did not expect people, you know, what I think is really interesting is that for the first time, Trump is actually a victim of the fake news cycle that he created, the idea that like, something is not true, that like we question everything. Normally he we are on the defense. But for the first time people are like, yup, wasn’t a bullet. Nope. Your team planned it da da da like he’s actually a victim of the fake news stuff. And I actually really appreciate that.

Kaya Henderson: I did see, um now there’s [?] I don’t know if you saw this, but they are circulating a picture. Um. By I can’t remember what journalist, but it purports to show the bullet whizzing. But like, he caught this picture right at the moment and there’s a little silver streak near the ear. And so it is I’m going to try to find it, but um, it is purporting to show that this is really.

DeRay Mckesson: I saw that.

Kaya Henderson: That this really happened. And, and, I mean, it could–

DeRay Mckesson: It don’t mean nothing to me.

Kaya Henderson: –be anybody could Photoshop a silver line in a thing. [laughing]

DeRay Mckesson: I what I know to be true is that if he got shot, somebody would have released a statement or something that wasn’t Donald Trump, because the only person who said that he got shot is Donald Trump. That’s it.

Kaya Henderson: Also, when you get shot, you’re not usually pumping your fist afterwards. And why did the Secret Service not whisk him off of the thing like the like, hunker down thing was sort of interesting to me too. Usually they move people out as quickly as possible.

Myles E. Johnson: Well, I think they don’t know how many so you when you when a shooting happens like that, you don’t know all the time where it’s coming from. Then also how many people are there. So I think that the Secret Service’s job is just to cover the president. So if people are attacking him from any angle, close side, side, side [?]–

Kaya Henderson: Look at you security expert. [laugh] I like it.

Myles E. Johnson: I’m just saying that’s what I would tell my [?]. I’m like, no, cover me up because you don’t know. You don’t know where the ops at. Cover me up.

DeRay Mckesson: But to Kaya to your point, one of the things that they’re saying is that Trump did the fist pump because the Secret Service was told all clear. It was after the kill shot happened, and they were no longer worried about there being a threat. So that’s sort of their narrative about why he was not permanently covered or why he wasn’t taken off the stage. And there’s that audio of him saying, like, give me my shoes. Like find me my shoes, something like that. Um. But it’s supposedly after the threat was gone.

Kaya Henderson: Um. Okay, so this thing happened, and what did you think? Besides, it might not be real. Like, were you worried about democracy? What what, like what were your initial thoughts?

Myles E. Johnson: If I’m being really, extremely, extremely, radically honest, I had a sense of relief that somebody who incited so much violence was also the person who was getting their comeuppance. So often I’ve thought about um, the the woman who who died during that um, during that protest, she got ran over by the car.

Kaya Henderson: In Charlottesville?

DeRay Mckesson: Heather.

Myles E. Johnson: Yeah. Heather Heyer. I think all the time when it comes to like, this rhetoric happening and this violent rhetoric, rhetoric just coming out and just being flooded into our air streams, often times it’s the people who are not necessarily mobilizing those people who who have to pay for that in violence. So it felt sad. It felt chaotic. It felt dark, it felt all those things. But it also felt like a type of twisted, poetic justice where it’s like, this is what happens when you speak like this. This is what happens when you uh normalize violent rhetoric and and honestly, it brought relief to me that the idea that, oh, this happened to you. But then, of course, this situation still had a casualty that was not a person who was on Fox or any of these other news programs proliferating like evil and white supremacist ideals. So even in this situation, somebody else passed away because of the violence that you spread. But the fact that it was that close to the person who put the fire to this storm, it didn’t make me feel good. [laugh] But it maybe it it brought me way more relief than other situations that we that we’ve seen when it comes to gun violence in the past couple of years, if I’m being honest.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. I mean, I, I would add to that, I do think that it’s very ironic that um, we’re talking about how, like, everybody is denouncing political violence now, including Mr. Trump, who has been the encourager of political violence. Right. This is the man who said that basically, no matter what happens, blood is going to spill um with this next election, this is, you know, all of the rhetoric around around Charlottesville, around the Black Lives Matters protest, around the January 6th stuff. And like you, Myles, I was like, wow, this is really ironic. Um. And and we’re all now there’s this, like, unified call for political violence being unacceptable. And one I find that interesting because the right has really been the only people talking about political violence. But I also find it interesting because political violence is like knit into the history of our country. Like if– [laugh]

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

Kaya Henderson: Like.

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

Kaya Henderson: This is I mean, everything from lynchings and riots and burning down towns and all. I mean, political violence is part of how we do business in America. And so this whole like call for political violence being, you know, unacceptable feels very thoughts and prayers-y to me. Right. It’s the it’s the nice thing to say in this particular moment. But I do think that we have to confront the fact that, like, we have created an environment where violence, I mean, our gun laws, the the rhetoric, um all of this stuff tells people that violence is actually how we do business in America. And so I, I feel like I don’t I don’t really buy all of this political violence is unacceptable stuff because we accept it quite a bit.

DeRay Mckesson: I do think what is really interesting too, and I started to look back at this because I, I feel bad even being a victim of how much we’ve normalized Trump’s wildness is that when you look at just the absolute violence that he has advocated for, it is it is truly nuts. Like he made fun of the attack at Pelosi’s house. There was a kid killed by gun violence, he gets on the stage and says, you guys have 36 hours to feel bad about to get and then y’all need to get over it. Like he said about Hillary Clinton and Biden and them, he said about one of them, he said. You know, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but somebody might need to use their Second Amendment rights about this. I mean, openly, the whole party the that Black guy who’s running for governor of North Carolina, he’s like, we need to start killing people. That that is their party.

Kaya Henderson: He said we need to start killing people? That is what he said, oh my God.

DeRay Mckesson: He says that. Or like, I didn’t realize the truck beds that Republicans have, like these images of Biden tied up that go across the back of the truck bed. I got to find a picture and send it to y’all. But like the lefties out here being like, we need civility. And these people are like civility, whew y’all need to be in jail. We need to shoot y’all. They’re not even alluding to it.

Kaya Henderson: No.

DeRay Mckesson: They are saying it. So that’s why I’m like, floored that the left is like, we’re going to be silent and we’re going to he is he’s campaigning off this stuff. And why are we on the defense when a Republican tried to kill him, that’s not us. We shouldn’t be apologizing for jack.

Kaya Henderson: So that is the other interesting thing. I watched a lot of news that night. Um. And I was waiting to see who the shooter was going to be. I had an idea of who I thought it. I mean, just because so much of our domestic terrorism lately has been perpetrated by young white men who are alienated and alone and don’t feel a sense of belonging. The whole lone wolf thing. I was waiting to see, you know, the profile of the shooter and the type holds. Um. But I did think that it was fascinating that he’s a registered Republican because this is not, you know, inter partisan fighting. This is this is your people on your side, it seems, who have some grievances to air out.

DeRay Mckesson: Well I knew he wasn’t brown. Any shade of brown.

Kaya Henderson: Me too. Me too.

DeRay Mckesson: We’d had known immediately.

Kaya Henderson: His picture would have been on the thing before they even thought to confirm anything, but they held it. I knew the same thing DeRay.

DeRay Mckesson: Getting all his classmates to be like, oh, he was bullied. No, y’all. Uh we not falling for the okey doke. Not he was bullied.

Kaya Henderson: Nope.

DeRay Mckesson: And then shot the president. Nope. No. Shot at the president. Because Trump was not shot with a bullet. Crazy.

DeRay Mckesson, narrating: Don’t go anywhere more Pod Save the People is coming.

[AD BREAK]

Myles E. Johnson: Can we also talk about, like Biden’s response to it in the speech? Because that’s what your response made me think of Kaya. When I saw Biden say that lie of America is no place for violence. I my face cracked. I said, America is not only, America is the place for violence.

Kaya Henderson: The place.

Myles E. Johnson: We’re the place for violence. And I just did not understand that. And of course, I thought about the Alabama church bombings. I’m thinking about, of course, like Native American siblings. I’m thinking about um chattel slavery. I am thinking about all the school shootings. I’m thinking about all the police brutality instances that we’ve seen. America is the place for violence. It’s really where the rest of the globe seems to be to look at when it comes to the Western world, where the rest of the globe looks at and says, what can we what happens when we have advanced society, and inhumane amounts of, amounts of weapons, it is it feels if that feels like the social experiment of America. So I felt like they might have wanted to take a beat before saying certain things, because I do think that we as an audience and as and as citizens we’re sophisticated. And that felt like such a weird, bold lie to just kind of to make up what America has been. This makes perfect sense in America. That’s what we need to face. This is not this doesn’t feel weird. It doesn’t feel like something that came out of nowhere. This feels like exactly what should be happening. It feels like Marvel wrote a twisted version of America. And of course, this is what happens when the season finale of that show or that comic book like, of course, there’s an attempt on a former president’s life who who was already vitriolic like that makes so much sense. I think I get upset when these moments aren’t used to review and to really like, be honest about who we’ve been and who we are right now. And this per– this bipartisan pretending is so annoying to me. Like, why? Why lie?

DeRay Mckesson: I agree with you, I just don’t think the president’s ever going to get up there and say that. I do think there are other things that Biden could have said, though. And, like I think they could have said, you know, this is why we need gun control. Like, I think there were some like I think there are some things that could have just helped reframe the moment. Or they could have said, you know, the rhetoric has been so charged and just repeated what that man had said and been like this le–, you know, we have seen this lead to like violent language has led to violent outcomes before. Like that’s true too. Uh. It is weird to me that the Dems feel like they’re on the defense over some stuff we just did not do. And it’s like, well, that is that is really nuts to me.

Kaya Henderson: It’s also interesting as we walk into the Republican National Convention, which starts today, I was watching some coverage, and this has engaged and motivated the Republican base. And I watched this older lady talking about how it is that only God saved Trump, because it is clear that his destiny is to become the president of the United States. And and now they are going to do everything they can. They are she is just more motivated and more energized to make this happen. And, and I think, I mean, don’t hate the player, hate the game. I think the Republicans are using this moment in a very strategic way to galvanize and to excite their supporters. And I feel like the Democrats are not using this as strategically as maybe they could. Um. All of the apology stuff is one thing, but there is also a very clear like this, you know, this partic– this particular moment actually shows something about leadership, right? Like what a true statesman would be saying in this moment, a true statemen wouldn’t be pumping his fist at the end of this, a true statesman, wouldn’t be, you know, trying to capitalize on this effort. There’s a moment to call for unity and blah, blah. [?], like, I don’t know, I’m not a I’m not a political strategist, but I feel like if I was the Democrats, I would be trying a different approach then can’t we just all get along?

Myles E. Johnson: If you have a whole base that believes, because that’s what some of these people at the evangelical churches believe that Trump is chosen, and then somebody tries to assassinate Trump in a Tarantino Pulp Fiction style.

Kaya Henderson: Come on. [clap]

Myles E. Johnson: That, that, that that bullet misses you.

Kaya Henderson: Woop.

Myles E. Johnson: That–

Kaya Henderson: [whoosh sound] Whizzed right by my ear.

Myles E. Johnson: Right. That’s that is I mean, I’m still of the ca– I don’t I don’t know what everybody’s take is on this, but I’m so of the camp that that is probably one of the most powerful things that could have happened for Trump, like so I get why people are critiquing him putting his fist up and all that other stuff. But at the end of the day, he wasn’t doing it for you. He was doing it for people that seen him almost get shot, like Samuel Jackson and Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction, and he made it through and he put his fist up. And now not only is he going to activate even more people, now he can sell merch and put those on sneakers too. So that’s what–

Kaya Henderson: Right.

Myles E. Johnson: That’s what he was thinking. And in that moment, it doesn’t it doesn’t really matter what we thought statesmen were. We’re in the era of business people as politicians. And in that moment, after he saw his life was being spared, he went straight into marketing mode, straight into promotion mode, which is his own sickness and quick wit.

Kaya Henderson: Well, I I agree with that, but I am saying that if we are in marketing mode, how come only one side is marketing and then the other side is equivocating or whatever?

Myles E. Johnson: Why shoult the dems start now? [laughter] Why start now? Just sit it out. Just sit it out.

DeRay Mckesson: I don’t think this is like a big win for him, though I was confused by that. I I was heartened to see that the internet was skeptical immediately, and so skeptical that his defenders are like doubling down their fighting in our mentions about it. His followers online are freaked out by the idea that people are questioning things around it, both on Twitter and on Facebook. Because you know, because the Facebook crowd sometimes can believe anything. And I was actually heartened by that. So my gut tells me that this definitely animates his base. It certainly doesn’t convert anybody on the left to Donald Trump, and I actually think it scares independents. I think that there’s a part of this where independents feel like this man is chaos. And I think that that actually helps us. I think that, you know, the Dems need to come off their campaign break and people need to start getting on TV talking about the history of violent rhetoric and all that stuff with them. I was nervous, did y’all see that Morning Joe got pulled this morning?

Kaya Henderson: No.

DeRay Mckesson: So CNN took Morning, the uh NBC took Morning Joe off the air. It did not air this morning because they were nervous about MSNBC’s coverage of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump. You’re like, what does that even mean?

Kaya Henderson: Wow.

DeRay Mckesson: They pulled it off the air.

Kaya Henderson: How, right?

DeRay Mckesson: Um.

Kaya Henderson: Huh.

DeRay Mckesson: And that all of this, though, signals to me how precarious the moment is for the right. If they were not nervous about the response to it, then they wouldn’t be doing all these crazy things. Or did you see that article um I don’t remember which publication, but it was called We Are All MAGA now. Did you see that?

Kaya Henderson: Oh, no. No, and we are not all MAGA now, just in case you were wondering. [laugh]

DeRay Mckesson: They are doubling down on this because they’re nervous. This to me is frenetic energy. It is not like we got it.

Kaya Henderson: Strategic energy. I mean, I question that DeRay. And here’s the reason why. I saw a piece in Hollywood Reporter um where he he did an interview with the Washington Examiner right after he got shot. And he basically says that he’s changing his speech at the RNC, that he, in fact, was he he was going to talk about Biden and Biden’s policies. And he says it uh the speech I was going to give on Thursday was going to be a humdinger. Had this not happened, this would have been one of the most incredible speeches. Honestly, it’s going to be a whole different speech now. And he talks about how he was going to just go in on Biden and and kill Biden. But now he is talking about this is a chance to bring the whole country, even the whole world, together. The speech will be a lot different than it would have been two days ago. And I do think that, you know, people are here for the short term. And so if he gives a speech that is about unity and it is about whatever, like all people are looking for is a little crumb to hold on to. And I think that if he does a good job at that, like it, like it is back on and popping. So I do think you’re right that that it’s still very precarious. Like, I feel like I have no idea what is going to happen in November. But I also think if the right remains as strategic and thoughtful as they have been, this could be a huge opportunity to grab folks who are in the middle and who are reasonable, um if they maximize the moment. I have a I in fact, I have more confidence in the right’s ability to do that than I do in the left’s ability to do that.

DeRay Mckesson: I think that’s a fair read. I just think that the organizer’s saying is you can’t win if you don’t fight.

Kaya Henderson: Mm hmm.

DeRay Mckesson: And I think so often the left just doesn’t show up to the fight.

Kaya Henderson: Yes.

DeRay Mckesson: And I think that Trump is going to like, overplay his hand. He’s gonna, you know, even the already the right wing people are making um they’re making videos being like what’s next? School bombings and da da. Just like they made videos being like, somebody should try to assassinate Donald Trump because it will lead to fervor. They said that. That is they did that in videos. So I think that that that freneticness is not going to change. And I have no faith that he’s going to give a unity speech that if anything that comes across as sincere and what I will say, and I never thought I’d say this, the response to this was like, people have been paying attention on the internet because and shout out to Black people on the internet because people’s critical thinking around like, like sort of like Myles said, like I’ve seen this movie before was really beautiful. People were like, yeah I don’t know. Like, why did the Secret Service do like, I think he thought this was going to be a slam dunk and it is anything but a slam dunk to me.

Myles E. Johnson: I think the thing that makes me just like, question that perspective DeRay. And, you know, usually I just, you know, mostly agree with every single thing you say, um is the fact that the voting public majority and the people who are on the internet aren’t always a circle on the venn diagram. So I listen to what’s happening on the internet and those discussions happening. But I know those veer younger. I know those veer specifically in my bubble to to the left. So I also feel like I have to listen to A.) What’s happening in those kind of Candace Owens internet-y spaces that I’ve explored before, but also what’s happening when I’m talking to Black people who support Trump or talking to Black people who are motivated, or Black people to vote and stuff like that in kind of my everyday life. And I did see people react to everything that he did warmly. I’ve seen that happen as Black people who I know who are voting for Trump, child. Um. Be animated around what happened so that that’s also just informing my perspective on this, too.

DeRay Mckesson: Yeah. And I and I don’t disagree with the the framing of it. I will just say, and this is what I think every time people talk about the internet not being the best political litmus test is that Trump would not be here if not for Cambridge Analytica. There is no Trump if not for the way they hacked Facebook. It just doesn’t exist, right? Like Trump did not become a media phenomenon because he was on TV. They figured out how to target people in their homes on Facebook in a way that was unprecedented. Right? Like the internet is key to how he exists today, for sure. How he stays in the media cycle and how he became a political phenomenon. And what I’m saying is that I think I saw that same apparatus for the first time ever, question him in a way that was not his intention. I think that he’s been very good at like setting up the way people talk about him. And I think he thought that fist bump and that red liquid on his face, whatever it was, was going to be a slam dunk. And I think that people are asking questions and frankly, this is why it wasn’t a bullet to me. If it was a bullet Secret Service, somebody would have released a statement being like, the president got shot. The only people who said he actually got shot were him and his wife. That’s it. They released two statements saying he got shot. Secret service hasn’t. The local police haven’t. The doctor hasn’t. The hospital hasn’t. I just say that to say that like the internet is actually questioning him in a way that he hadn’t anticipated.

Myles E. Johnson: Are you seeing people on the right on the internet questioning him in ways that they that they haven’t, like people on the right saying, oh, no, this was our man. But we can obviously see this is a this was a inside job and now we are losing trust in Trump? Or are you seeing people who are already on the left now not trust another supposed stunt that Trump has did? I I’m just like confused about that part.

DeRay Mckesson: Yeah, I think what I’m seeing and this is this is what I think is the fascinating part to me. I’ve seen people who are like, I don’t care about politics. The parties don’t mean anything to me. Politics is not a real thing, da da da. I’m seeing those people question. The people who are like the, you know, they could go either way.

Myles E. Johnson: Got it.

DeRay Mckesson: And I think that to me is interesting.

Myles E. Johnson: Got it, got it.

Kaya Henderson: Um. I think before this assassination attempt, I was actually encouraged by the left wing wins in the UK and France, even though the media sort of said it was going to be a right wing runaway. Um. And, you know, people in the UK showed up and voted. And I think it reminded me that the media spins a story, in fact, like bad news and conflict and politically violent rhetoric is actually a business model for social media and talk radio and those things. So they are deeply invested in carrying the negative narratives. And when I think about what happened in the UK and what happened in France, like I think regular people are over all of this stuff, I think they might have wanted something different, but I think the right has played too fast, too far. And I think when you take the whole package of all of the things that have happened over the last few years, especially the court’s most recent rulings, I think people are like, wait a minute. I think about Kansas and how, you know, right after the takedown of Roe v Wade, Kansas rejected all of the anti-abortion stuff that was put in front of it. And that is middle of America heartland kind of stuff. And so I generally think that people are, I think the media says one set of things, and I think that people actually believe a different set of things. And I think before Trump, it was progressive media saying a whole lot of stuff and ignoring the kind of right wing or middle of the road people. And now I think we’ve got swung the pendulum the exact opposite way, and I think the media feels like the right stuff, r-i-g-h-t the the conservative stuff is the thing that they should put their thumb on the scales on, and I think people are somewhere closer to the middle. So I am I’m interested to see what happens in November and to see whether or not this assassination attempt actually has any impact.

DeRay Mckesson, narrating: Don’t go anywhere. More Pod Save the People is coming.

[AD BREAK]

Myles E. Johnson: That’s a good point too. I thought about that as well because of um, just the quick pace of media right now, how fast this will go, even though this is a huge deal that I don’t know if it will, if it’ll feel like anything in September or October, if that makes sense. Like, even like I was thinking about–

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: –that even prior to this, I was thinking about that about Biden in the um, in the debate and all that other stuff. I’m like, well, maybe by September, you know, and August, because of how quickly–

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: –everything’s going.

Kaya Henderson: Totally.

Myles E. Johnson: Maybe this won’t even matter anymore. Um. So I could definitely see a world where because this world this, this, this country is so if it’s not a Ice Spiece, it’s a it’s a president. Like we’re just everything is just kind of going so quickly and everything’s just kind of flattened so people are getting so much of everything at one time, then maybe this will just kind of oddly pass over, even though this is obvs like, you know, a huge deal, but maybe it’ll feel really old in our heads just in the matter of a few months.

DeRay Mckesson: Last thing I’ll say is, I do think, though, this is one of those like, if we don’t fight, we we can’t win, you know what I mean? And the left has to have an actual plan to deal with. This is just going to this is going to make him more intense. And I do think this gave him more confidence that he had. And the idea that Trump could be more confident is pretty wild. And I think that the Biden Kamala Kumbaya thing is not it, like they somebody has to actually fight in this moment. And I think people will respect that.

Kaya Henderson: Wooo.

DeRay Mckesson: And I think that the Kumbaya thing is going to be a that will be how we lose. It won’t be because Trump was a genius. I think Trump is smart like a drug dealer smart. He knows how to move product without getting caught. He’s not smart like Einstein. And I think our side is like, is like little Miss Perfect. And we are the kids who when the cashier doesn’t ring up one of our products, we call the police on ourselves. And we got to get out of the Little Miss Perfect. And we need to be smart like a drug dealer smart, so we can like move the message to the people that need it. And because that’s that’s what Trump can do. He’s not like, that’s not Einstein over there. He just knows how to push products and not get caught.

Kaya Henderson: Trump is going to announce his vice presidential pick. Who do you think it is and do you think that this has any that this changed the pick, I just saw something that said Marco Rubio is out. Um.

DeRay Mckesson: JD Vance, I think it’s JD Vance.

Kaya Henderson: [sigh] Yeah.

DeRay Mckesson: Because I think JD Vance sounds sane. And again.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

DeRay Mckesson: These two people are going to fight and Kamala is going to Kumbaya us to death, and Biden is going to whisper. And I think that that combo is going to be rough. [snickering in background]

Kaya Henderson: What do you think, Myles?

Myles E. Johnson: I agree with DeRay with the, your last comment about [laughter] Kamala is going to Kumbaya us to death. And then Biden’s gonna whisper. [laughing] Cracked me up.

Kaya Henderson: You wait. You mean it ain’t going to be, it’s not going to be Tim Scott? Because he loves Trump.

Myles E. Johnson: Listen, I’m if I’m being honest with you, I haven’t given it a whole lot of thought because it feels like the I kind of think the opposite when I think of the Democratic Party, I think that whoever’s the vice president so important because people are thinking about that oh if Biden can’t do it, Kamala can do it. Uh. Like I’m still kind of on it. Like I haven’t really been sold that this isn’t–

Kaya Henderson: Yup.

Myles E. Johnson: –like a total revitalizing moment.

Kaya Henderson: I hear you, I hear you.

Myles E. Johnson: That like, I think that the left needs to be even more prepared for, like, I hear what everybody’s saying around what’s happening on the internet and and people in the middle and frenetic energy. I really, really, really do get it. But maybe it’s because I spent a lot of my time in suburban rural Georgia growing up, and I still know, you know, I got people on the right. I’m like, I don’t know, this, this, this, this felt like a super PAC battery to um, to the to to it’s back. And I and I think that what Trump is creating kind of transcends who’s the vice president or all this other stuff. I feel like it doesn’t matter for, for a huge group of people, as long as he’s on the ballot, that’s who they’re voting for, because God so said so. And look, even the enemy’s bullet got swayed. God is breaking the world of physics in order to make this man the president. I’m like, how do you beat that narrative?

Kaya Henderson: It is true.

Myles E. Johnson: They should do a commercial where they take everything God and the Bible said don’t do and totally attach it to something that Trump has done or said, and just do that. To me, that is the kind of narrative we need because I don’t something about the I was watching Midsommar over the weekend. I’m thinking about cults. I’m thinking about I’m thinking about Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is has the cults of the um, of the of the Manson family. I’m really thinking about the counter-narrative to–

Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: –this supernatural narrative. But that counter-narrative to a supernatural being appointing you and then other people seeing that.

Kaya Henderson: Yup.

Myles E. Johnson: Who maybe were in that church but weren’t Trump fans and we’re like, oh, y’all are tripping now those people are not. They’re like, oh, that’s wild. Like, I, I, I think underestimating that for me feels wild. And those people who feel like that don’t always have Wi-Fi connections.

Kaya Henderson: Well, I think I think that’s right. I also think it is a battle of like hearts versus minds. Right?

Myles E. Johnson: Mm hmm.

Kaya Henderson: And I think the Dems want to come with their data and their spreadsheets and their policies and whatnot. And I think that the right is speaking to people’s hearts. They are you know, it’s not a it’s not a surprise that at a time where people are experiencing loneliness and don’t feel like they belong to anything, that this kind of movement is happening. I went to this panel, um at the Aspen Ideas Festival, two weeks ago called something like The Making of an Insurrectionist. And uh, it was a documentary filmmaker who has interviewed a lot of the January 6th folks and um, a woman who I think works for the FBI doing counterintelligence around domestic terrorists. And what they both sort of said is for many of these people, it’s not even that they are like true believers in the ideology. They are lonely people on the internet, and people reach out to them and are like, hey, how are you? What are you up to? Why don’t you come do this thing, come hang out with us, come blah blah blah. And then, like lots of them, really did end up just in DC on January the 6th, not with a super clear view of what exactly they were doing, but kind of swept up in the emotion because they were with the people who they have been belonging to recently. Right. And so you can’t you can’t counter a crisis of belonging with facts and figures. You got to speak to people where they are.

Myles E. Johnson: That, that’s that’s, that’s amazing. Like that illuminated me. I definitely think that the parasocial relationship is so significant. I think, you know, everybody on the internet who’s a creator or whatever, um who, like celebrities knows about the parasocial relationship. And at the end of the day, Trump is somebody’s crazy uncle for a lot of people, which is still family, and–

Kaya Henderson: Yup.

Myles E. Johnson: –Biden is our president.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: And when I think about Obama and I’ll just speak for myself, Obama didn’t necessarily feel like somebody in my family who I knew. But I was interested para socially in having Obama as a president. I liked being able to walk down the street and when I thought about my president, thinking of Obama, which I’m sure people felt like JFK, that parasocial relationship was enough. But [?]–

Kaya Henderson: Yes.

Myles E. Johnson: But but Joe Biden needs to be somebody’s grandpa.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: Joe Biden needs to be. Kamala needs to be somebody’s aunt. Like you actually have to br– you have to break those political benders because we don’t we’re not as fascinated with symbolically having y’all parasocially as vice president. Like it would make sense, you know what I mean? Like, oh, a Black woman vice president or a Black woman president or Biden who’s doing all this stuff for you, people want a sense of family and connection in their politicians.

Kaya Henderson: Connection. Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: And that way, when they see you, um having a hard time finishing sentences or moving slower, there’s this empathy for you too. And again, I’m not trying to make Trump sound like he’s a genius. I think that I’m just seeing that there is like a thread of, of, of intelligence that is happening through the chaotic stupidity that I’m like, just follow this Democrat Democrats.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: All the and I’m sure they’re doing it by accident, just throwing everything at the wall. But this is what’s continuously working in the chaos, and it’s the fact that people do feel connected. So I definitely agree. Thank you for bringing that, bringing that to my mind because I didn’t necessarily think about it like that but that I was like that’s it.

Kaya Henderson: It’s just it’s just the riff off of your like they are, they are having a supernatural conversation and we are not. Right. It’s the–

Myles E. Johnson: We’re talk about policy. I’m like no–

Kaya Henderson: It’s the same disconnection. Right.

Myles E. Johnson: They said God said vote.

Kaya Henderson: Yes. That’s right. That is, it is a huge disconnect.

Myles E. Johnson: You’re telling me a leftist TikToker said vote? That’s not the same. [laugh] We need–

Kaya Henderson: That’s right. That is right.

Myles E. Johnson: We need the bigger, better narrative.

Kaya Henderson: A couple other things happened. So one, did you see that Elon Musk endorsed Trump? Now, right after the assassination attempt?

Myles E. Johnson: I did not see that. That was right uh following it?

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. Immediately following, you know, he had said he would support GOP candidates, but he hadn’t made a presidential endorsement. And as soon as I mean, maybe he feels like God did it too. [laugh] As soon as the shooting happened, he came out and endorsed Trump which um, which was interesting. But the other the big thing that happened um, was the federal judge, Aileen Cannon, who was a Trump appointee and who was uh presiding over the classified documents case in Florida, threw the case out. Um. And this was one of the strongest criminal cases against Trump. But she threw the case out, and she threw it out on what is really like a set of not sturdy. Like, I really wish De’Ara was here today. Not sturdy le– legal thinking. Um. She she says basically that um the appointment of the special counsel, Jack Smith was unconstitutional, that the way his office is funded is unlawful, that he doesn’t have stature, statutory authorization. The truth of the matter is, if she believed all of that, she could have threw it out right at the beginning. Right. But I find it–

Myles E. Johnson: Right.

Kaya Henderson: The timing of it really, really interesting. And um, the, the legal folks, at least in the media, say that like, this is a long shot legal theory and, like other judges, have rejected the arguments that special counsels are unconstitutional. And so this will likely go to appeal and it will likely be turned over by on appeal. But it seems like people are pulling out every single stop just to delay all of the criminal stuff until after the election. Um. And because it’ll take the appeals process to, like, work through and that will push the case back and, and whatnot. And so I thought that that was fascinating that again, like she did this today. What was she what was she doing last Friday? What was she doing–

Myles E. Johnson: Right, right.

Kaya Henderson: –two weeks ago? [laugh]

Myles E. Johnson: Which, which to me and always down to be wrong. But but to me that sounds like there is some type of poll or litmus test or political advisers that are saying, if you’re going to get Trump off of something, let him get away with something, let him intro– if you want to endorse him, this is the time. He’s favorable.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: He’s as favorable as he’s going to ever be right now. Unless something else miraculously and tragic happens that you’re like, how did you how did you how did you fly off a private jet and without a parachute and land on your feet? Like, unless something like that happens, they’re like, come on, go what, what whatever you got allegedly. I don’t know this, but also it sounds like there’s like some paper like money to be to be followed. It’s [laugh] it’s it’s how it–

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: –it sounds. It sounds like that too.

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. I just think people are pulling out every single stop to try to maximize this moment and this time leading up to the election. Um. It’ll be interesting to, to watch the RNC coverage this evening and see what happened there today and and to see how this continues to unfold really.

Myles E. Johnson: Listen, before we get off of here, what kind of wine are you going to have watching the um [laughter]–

Kaya Henderson: I, I, I, I it’ll be–

Myles E. Johnson: That is just nothing this is nothing for us to do sober.

Kaya Henderson: It’ll be it’ll be something light, like a Pinot Grigio or something like that while I watch as–

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

Kaya Henderson: –America unravels. Um. But can I say–

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

Kaya Henderson: –two shout outs before we, what kind of wine are you having? Tell me what kind of wine are you having?

Myles E. Johnson: Um. It’s going to be a sticky type of wine. Um and indica. Um. [laughter] [clapping] It’s going to be a um, a nice sticky indica.

Kaya Henderson: It don’t have to be a wine, a gummy? Right.

Myles E. Johnson: A nice little a nice little. No I’m going to do it old school I’m going to I’m going to smoke it out of a pipe.

Kaya Henderson: Uh huh.

Myles E. Johnson: And I’m gonna do it I’m going to do it just like that. That’s what that’s weed.

Kaya Henderson: Okay.

Myles E. Johnson: Unless. Unless–

Kaya Henderson: Alright.

Myles E. Johnson: Unless Crooked finds us some sponsors, some some great THC CBD sponsors. [laughter]

Kaya Henderson: Um. Two two shout outs. One one not a shout out, but one recognition check on your ’80s and ’90s babies. This was a hard weekend for us. Uh. We lost Doctor Ruth, who literally changed the way we talk about, you know, sex in this country. Um. A pioneering, you know, I guess, psychologist. Um. And just. I mean, she broke all the barriers. We lost Richard Simmons. Oh, my gosh.

Myles E. Johnson: Whoa.

Kaya Henderson: Who, you know, changed the exercise world as we know it. Um. And we lost Shannen Doherty from 90210, which was, you know, all of our teen angst stuff that we saw playing out. Um. She lost her battle with cancer.

Myles E. Johnson: That was a low riding chariot. Um. [?]

Kaya Henderson: Yeah, yeah. [laugh] Scooping up scooping up quite a few people. Uh huh.

Myles E. Johnson: Yes. [laugh]

Kaya Henderson: So check on your ’80s and ’90s babies child.

Myles E. Johnson: Before we end too, I also want to pay respects to Shelley Duvall, who was known–

Kaya Henderson: Oh yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: –for being in The Shining. Um. I’m a huge Stanley Kubrick fan, even though, you know, and I love watching Stephen King talk about Stanley Kubrick’s take on his story and and watching all that stuff. But she is um an icon for that role and really just being that kind of awkward uh, quirky beauty. And I know that um, since those roles that she um uh screamed into our hearts with, she’s battled a lot of mental health issues. So I’m also just paying respects, but also just, you know, just sending out–

Kaya Henderson: Raising the issue.

Myles E. Johnson: –good vibes for her her soul being at–

Kaya Henderson: Yeah.

Myles E. Johnson: –and her soul and her mind being at peace. So that was a that was, that was–

Kaya Henderson: And–

Myles E. Johnson: That was four.

Kaya Henderson: And for those of us, for those of us who were too little or scared to watch The Shining. She was Olive Oyl in the Popeye movie, which like–

Myles E. Johnson: Wait with um.

Kaya Henderson: –was, with Robin Williams.

Myles E. Johnson: With Robin Williams. You know, I’ve never seen that. I never actually seen that.

Kaya Henderson: What?

Myles E. Johnson: I have never seen–

Kaya Henderson: Are you kidding me?

Myles E. Johnson: I’ve never seen it. I only see it like in other movie retrospectives where people are–

Kaya Henderson: Oh no. No.

Myles E. Johnson: –trying to say what a flub that was.

Kaya Henderson: No, no, that was like uh.

Myles E. Johnson: That was it?

Kaya Henderson: That was like a it was a movie of my childhood for sure.

Myles E. Johnson: Okay, okay. Oh well The Shining for some, Popeye for [laughing] because I was I was like I was like I was looking at her. I’m like, she is weird and scary.

Kaya Henderson: Mmm. The other thing that I want to shout out is a long awaited victory. And that is uh, DeRay McKesson winning his court case that went all the way to the Supreme Court and came back. But basically that said that he is not responsible for violence that other people commit at the protest that he is at.

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

Kaya Henderson: Um.

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

Kaya Henderson: And that that was a long battle and a hard battle. And, um and so we just want to wish our colleague congratulations and all the love and cheer on the ACLU for protecting our right to protest, which, you know, all many of our, our rights to expression are under attack. But um, shout out to, to that victory. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

DeRay Mckesson, narrating: Well that’s it. Thanks so much for tuning in to Pod Save the People this week. Don’t forget to follow us Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. And if you enjoyed this episode of Pod Save the People, consider dropping us a review on your favorite podcast app. And we’ll see you next week. Pod Save the People was a production of Crooked Media. It’s produced by AJ Moultrié and mixed by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Executive produced by me and special thanks to our weekly contributors Kaya Henderson, De’Ara Balenger and Myles E. Johnson. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Share This Podcast

Listen

In This Episode

Latest Episodes

Related Articles

Subscribe to our nightly newsletter

Cookie Notice