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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Thursday, October 2nd, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show saying goodbye to the great Jane Goodall, who passed away Wednesday at the age of 91. The legendary conservationist expanded our knowledge and understanding of chimpanzees and of ourselves, too. As a Jane, I can say that there are not a lot of famous Janes. I mean, let’s be real. There are like two good songs about Janes, and there’s one very bad album about a Jane. Jane Goodall was not my name sake. But I have always taken a lot of inspiration from a woman committed to learning about and understanding our world better. So from one Jane to another, thank you. [music break] On today’s show, in a confusing turn of events, federal officials say they plan to reopen an Obama-era immigration program. And Israel tries to intercept yet another flotilla attempting to carry humanitarian aid to Gaza. But let’s start with the government shutdown as we start day two. Though I’d like to note that despite the government closing shop, House Republicans have been on vacation since last week, while House Democrats have been showing up to work. Here’s Massachusetts Democratic Representative Katherine Clark speaking on Wednesday. 

[clip of Representative Katherine Clark] I’ve had one question for my Republican House colleagues this week, where the heck are you? Where the heck are you? You’ve cut people’s health care. You’re giving their hard earned tax dollars to billionaires in the form of tax breaks. And then you don’t even show up to defend your own policies, your own bills? 

Jane Coaston: But Vice President J.D. Vance told members of the press Wednesday that the real bad guys in the shutdown fight are Democrats. Specifically, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. Because according to Vance, it’s Schumer standing in the way of low-income Americans getting much-needed health care assistance. Assistance which Republicans cut a bunch of in President Donald Trump’s stupid one big beautiful bill. 

[clip of Vice President J.D. Vance] Air traffic controllers need to make sure that people are flying safely and on time. We need low-income people to be able to access the food services that are provided by the federal government. There are critical things that need to be saved. We’re going to do everything that we can over the coming weeks, if the shutdown lasts that long, to ensure that people get the essential services that they need despite the fact that Chuck Schumer has shut down the federal government. 

Jane Coaston: Sure. Both Democrats and Republicans have dug in their heels on this shutdown. Democrats want Affordable Care Act subsidies extended and Medicaid cuts reversed. And Republicans are fine with the government being closed and want to fire thousands of federal employees. So to talk more about the shutdown, its impact on everyday Americans, and what comes next, I spoke to New Jersey Democratic Senator Andy Kim. Senator Kim, welcome to What a Day. 

Andy Kim: Yeah, thanks for having me on. 

Jane Coaston: So the government shut down at 12:01 Eastern Time on Wednesday morning. And what we’re hearing from Senate Majority Leader John Thune and Congressional Republicans all week is that Democrats did this. Democrats are shutting down the government to pay for the health care of, quote, “illegal immigrants.” What’s your response to that? 

Andy Kim: Well look, they’re just lying to the American people because it’s already against federal law to have undocumented immigrants getting health care through federal dollars. You know that is not something that’s allowed right now. So what they’re saying just isn’t even possible. Speaker Johnson is just blatantly lying to the American people being deceptive about this. And you know why? Because he doesn’t have really anything to stand on here when he knows that so many Americans are facing a health care crisis right now. 

Jane Coaston: Vice President J.D. Vance is also calling this Chuck Schumer’s shutdown from the podium of the White House press briefing room, which is kind of funny because there’d been a lot of talk among Republicans about how Chuck Schumer is just going to lie down and this wouldn’t even happen in the first place. But is this Chuck Schumer’s fault? 

Andy Kim: No, I mean, this is clearly the Republicans’ fault, Trump’s fault. I mean they have the White House. They have the majorities in the Senate and the House of Representatives. And so they are the ones that are in charge and they have let this happen. They refuse to engage in any negotiations. You know, Speaker Johnson gave House Republicans a vacation. They’re getting paid right now. Even they didn’t even bother to show up. Like how am I supposed to negotiate when not only do I not have them in the same room as me, but they’re just not even the same building or even the same town. It’s clearly their fault. 

Jane Coaston: In March, the Senate passed a spending bill just hours before the deadline. You also opposed that bill. But at the time, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, whom we’ve been talking about, said it would be much more dangerous to close the government because it would give the president free reign to run the government however he wants. Only reopening the departments he wants, letting Elon Musk run even more rampant. This time, the Trump administration has said that they might fire, not furlough, federal workers in areas of the government that aren’t, quote, “consistent with the president’s priorities.” And the president even came out on Tuesday saying basically like we want to fire Democrats, which is bad. Why was that a gamble you and your fellow Democrats were willing to take? 

Andy Kim: Yeah, I mean, look what Trump’s trying to do in terms of firing Democrats. I mean that’s not just bad, it’s illegal. I mean and look, Trump will do that regardless of whether we’re in the shutdown or not. You know, when you have Russell Vought as director of the OMB, I mean I really do believe that Russell Vought and Stephen Miller are the two most dangerous people in this administration, they so clearly have an agenda that they’re pushing to be able to reorient and take our democracy away from the Constitution. So yes, we need to make a stand and we need to say, you know, that this is not how our country should be working. That this is not the way we should be operating and that this governance that we’re seeing is so clearly broken. Otherwise, I think the Republicans will just continue to believe that they can just have their way and I think we need to be able to step against them. 

Jane Coaston: Why is the shutdown necessary to make that stand? 

Andy Kim: Well look, it’s not necessary, but it was necessary because of what the Trump administration did in terms of just how intransigent they are and how determined they are to subvert our Constitution. You know I would have hoped that we could find off-ramps to this in terms of being able to provide support for people’s health care. But when you see, for instance, Speaker Johnson say, oh he’s acting in good faith here. No, he’s not. Speaker Johnson, Leader Thune, they’re basically just cabinet members in Trump’s White House and his administration. Now they’re not actually leaders of a separate and equal branch of government that is running its own checks and balances and that’s the dangers that we’re in right now is we do not have three functioning credible branches of government in this country right now. 

Jane Coaston: Shutdowns are typically something that Republicans do. Um. I remember back in Trump’s first term or even going back to 2013. So you were talking about needing to take a stand, needing to make a stand. Is this the Democrats version of kind of fighting fire with fire? And is this the kind of politics you think Democrats need to be using more broadly? Like we can’t treat this as a normal situation. 

Andy Kim: Well, it’s definitely not a normal situation. I mean, we’re in a constitutional crisis. You know, as I told you, we don’t have three functioning branches of government. We have one branch of government that’s trying to consume the other two branches and be able to have them do whatever he wants them to do. That is something we should all be furious about. What’s important though is that this is not just some political tug of war. You know I don’t want this to be seen as just you know two parties just trying to duke it out and trying to line up for the midterm elections and be able to galvanize base. No, that would be absolutely disastrous. This is about responding to people’s concerns, their worries, their fears, their anxieties. It always has to go back to the people, the people that just feel like government’s not even thinking about them. You know, the fact that the President of the United States and all members of Congress continue to get their paycheck. You know, as our troops and our civil servants aren’t getting paid right now, that the American people see that. They’re like, these people, they’re just completely out of touch and that they’re playing with other people’s chips. And that’s what causes the deep distrust in our government and reinforces that. And that’s what’s causing space and oxygen for the erosion of trust that is undermining our democracy. 

Jane Coaston: You actually announced on Tuesday that you are rejecting your paycheck as long as the government is closed. Why was that important for you to do? 

Andy Kim: Ah. You know, look, I was a public servant. I was a [?] government employee. I worked my way up from the photocopy room at the State Department. Like I was a young kid that wanted to serve my country and I had to I remember what it was like going through, I went through two shutdowns and I remember it was hard. I had to show up to work. I wasn’t getting paid. I didn’t know whether or not I’d be able to make rent. I didn’t have any savings at the time. Um. It was really hard. And you know I got sworn in. You might remember actually it was under Trump in his first time that we had the longest shutdown in American history. I came into Congress during that time and that’s when I learned that the President and members of Congress are the only people in the government that get paid during a shutdown. And I was so angry. Um. So I immediately just like, I refuse. I cannot, I cannot do this because it’s wrong. It is the opposite of leadership. It is something that is offensive to think about. How we’re asking people to do something that we ourselves are not willing to do which is show up to work even if we’re not getting paid. And like I said even the House Republicans they don’t even bother to show up to work and they’re still getting paid today. Like that is offensive. So I wanted to show you know the federal workers in my state and around this country I stand with them. And in the same way that I stood with them when Musk and everybody else was trying to fire them and call them criminals, call them deep state. This is probably the year public servants have been most denigrated and most attacked at least certainly in my lifetime. And they need to see that there are some of us that stand with them. 

Jane Coaston: As someone who lived in DC for a long time I appreciate one a good GS reference and two I remember how hard it was for folks who I knew who were federal employees during those shutdowns because it would be like the first couple of days people would be like okay you know it’s fine there are bar specials and then it stops being fun. Because you’re basically employed but without the benefits of being employed. It’s a really ridiculous situation. 

Andy Kim: Yeah and then and like I just remember like sitting there at work and you know you would just see the back and forth and it just it all seemed so performative and it really felt like that the negotiations they were happening without real sincere consideration of what other Americans are going through. And that’s why I said it’s so important that we show people and convey that we’re fighting for them. 

Jane Coaston: As you mentioned, the longest shutdown in history was just a few years ago in 2018 when Democrats and Republicans were at odds overfunding Trump’s border wall. That shutdown lasted for 34 days and in the end the party forcing the shutdown didn’t get what they wanted. So how long do you think Democrats are willing to go and where is the line? 

Andy Kim: So many Americans they’re getting their news today and in the coming days about the increases of of health care costs that they’re going to have to deal with. Open enrollment starts on November 1st which is why we need to do this now. You know this is not something where we can kick the can down the road like where the Republicans want to do this between Thanksgiving and Christmas or whatnot. Um. That’s not going to work. People are making up their minds right now this month in terms of it. So we’re pushing through and we really want to make sure that we can deliver for people get them the relief. And look I’ve talked to Republicans in the Senate like a number of them feel somewhat similarly. They’re hearing from their constituents and I think that this shutdown is shining an even brighter light on this. So I cannot tell you for certain you know exactly when or how this is going to develop and unfold. That is the uncertainty that comes with a shutdown. But what I do know is that a lot of Americans are going to be in a lot more pain and a lot more difficult circumstance unless we change our trajectory as a country right now and and provide the support. And I think that they will see that here when it comes to this shutdown. 

Jane Coaston: Senator Kim, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for taking the time. 

Andy Kim: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with New Jersey Democratic Senator Andy Kim. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment but if you like the show make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of David Adler] That’s fucking scary. We just got, we’re just surrounded by boats here. 

Jane Coaston: Activists on board a flotilla sailing toward Gaza to deliver aid to Palestinians said the Israeli Navy began intercepting their vessels on Wednesday night in international waters north of Egypt. Members of the flotila, made up of about 50 boats and 500 people, told the Associated Press that Israeli warships aggressively approached the boats overnight, circling them and jamming communications, including the live cameras on board. Multiple ships were stopped and some of the activists on board were detained. Crooked Media’s Matt Berg spoke to David Adler, one of the people on board the flotilla, and asked him if the activists had heard directly from Israel. 

[clip of David Adler] Their claim is that we were entering into a war zone. We need to turn around, which of course is um, you know, a totally fictitious, rogue, imposition by the state of Israel that they somehow control the international waters. 

Jane Coaston: According to maritime law, states don’t have the right to seize ships in international waters unless they’re engaged in armed conflict. Israel’s government has accused some of the flotilla members of being linked to Hamas, but has provided little evidence to support that claim. Here’s Adler again. 

[clip of David Adler] We’re undeterred in terms of the mission that we came to do. Which is set up a permanent humanitarian corridor at sea to reach the people of Gaza, where Israel has frustrated humanitarian attempts to provide aid and land. 

Jane Coaston: Eventually, the Israeli military left. If undisturbed, the flotilla will reach the shores of Gaza by today, but those on board expect Israeli authorities to continue to do everything in their power to stop that from happening. The Supreme Court hit pause on one of Trump’s latest power grabs, ruling that he can’t just fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook while her case works its way through the courts. Trump had pushed to remove Cook before last month’s Fed meeting, but a judge said, sorry, that’s illegal, and a divided appeals court rejected the administration’s emergency appeal. Here is White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt reacting to the news at Wednesday’s press conference. 

[clip of Karoline Leavitt] Look, we have respect for the Supreme Court, but they’re going to hear the actual case and make a determination on the legal argument in January, and we look forward to that because we maintain um that she was fired well within the president’s legal authority to do so. She was removed from the board, and we look forward to that case being fully played out at the Supreme Court. 

Jane Coaston: We have respect for the Supreme Court, sure you do. Cook, the first bNlack woman to serve on the Fed’s board, has become a target for Trump as he seeks more control over independent regulators. He claimed a Justice Department inquiry alleging Cook committed mortgage fraud justified her removal, but Democrats blasted it as a brazen power grab to bend monetary policy to his will. And the DOJ has also yet to provide proof of said mortgage fraud. For now, she stays put. Meaning the Fed remains insulated from Trump’s ire until the justices decide whether presidents can purge regulators they just don’t like. Payroll provider ADP’s monthly employment data was released Wednesday and showed that private sector employers cut 32,000 jobs in September. But the Wall Street Journal reports that economists had been expecting to see an increase of 45,000 jobs. So yikes. Job loss is a signal the U.S. economy is actively slowing, but I definitely didn’t need ADP numbers to figure that out. ADP chief economist Nela Richardson said in a statement the data quote, “further validates what we’ve been seeing in the labor market.” Here’s Richardson on CNBC Wednesday. 

[clip of Nela Richardson] This is a statistical process. It’s really important, but what I want the viewers to understand is that the narrative remains the same. There has been a slowdown in the hiring momentum from the beginning of the year to where we are now. 

Jane Coaston: The ADP’s numbers don’t capture what’s happening at government agencies, but because of the government shutdown, the Bureau of Labor Statistics said Wednesday its services had been suspended. That means unless Democrats and Republicans randomly decide to get along, we most likely won’t be seeing the government’s monthly jobs report that was slated to come out Friday. The federal government is planning to reopen deferred action for childhood arrivals applications for the first time in four years in every state except Texas. A quick refresher, DACA is a program that gives immigrants who were brought to the U.S as children protection from deportation and permits to stay and work in the country legally. It was originally created in 2012 during then-president Barack Obama’s first term, when recipients were commonly known as dreamers. The Justice Department released the plans and a proposal this week. Applicants will have to prove they arrived in the U.S. before age 16, graduated from high school, and have no criminal record. In Texas, however, those who already have DACA status will still be protected against deportation, but they won’t be eligible for work permits anymore and will, quote, “not be considered lawfully present in the U S.” Some advocates are urging Texas recipients to leave the state and file a change of address before that happens so they don’t lose their work permits. But obviously, that’s easier said than done for people who have families and jobs and, you know, lives in the places they live. The proposal is currently pending final approval by a U.S. District Court judge in Texas, but according to the L.A. Times, that hasn’t stopped misinformation and confusion about the process from circulating on social media. And that’s the news. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate Chunk, the comeback king and winner of this year’s Fat Bear Week, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading and not just about how Chunk, a brown bear weighing in at more than 1,200 pounds managed to overcome a broken jaw to be the fattest bear at Cat May National Park and Preserve in Alaska, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscibe. I’m Jane Coaston and to quote Mike Fitz, founder of Fat Bear Week, Chunk certainly was resilient in his efforts to get fat this year. Iconic behavior. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Fohr and Chris Alport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Gina Pollack, and Caitlin Plummer. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. 

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