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In This Episode
The Queen my lord is dead, but the online takes live on! Also it was 9/11, also also Alycia came face to face with the Succession cast, it’s been a week! Josie, Alycia and Yasmine talk about the fallout of the Queen’s death, celebrity death culture, and the nuance of mourning problematic favs. Plus, we celebrate Latin Heritage Month!
TRANSCRIPT
Josie Totah: And. We are back. I’m Josanna Perkins. Otherwise known as Josie Totah.
Yasmine Hamady: And I’m Josanna Perkins’ sidekick, um best friend, mom, guardian angel, Yasmine–
Josie Totah: Rupert Murdoch.
Yasmine Hamady: Hamady. I’m not Rupert Murdoch.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh.
Yasmine Hamady: I’m Yasmine Hamady.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait a minute.
Yasmine Hamady: I’d rather die.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m over here on an island, missing my girls. I’m Alycia Pascual-Peña.
Josie Totah: Bitch. You’re in the valley.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And this is Dare We Say.
Josie Totah: I’m in Scotland.
Yasmine Hamady: And this is Dare We Say. She’s on an island called [indistinct].
Josie Totah: You’re in North Hollywood, I’m in Scotland right now.
Yasmine Hamady: So technically Josie’s on an island.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, technically you’re on an island.
Yasmine Hamady: Before we get to the Queen’s perishing, I have–
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh.
Yasmine Hamady: A small little story I want to share.
Josie Totah: Okay.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Please do.
Yasmine Hamady: So, yesterday.
Josie Totah: Do tell.
Yasmine Hamady: I swear to. So I can’t make this stuff up. Some things that happen in my life, I’m like, yeah, this is not an A24 coming of age film. Timothée Chalamet is not the protagonist in this. It is me, but I’m also the antagonist. I am my own worst nightmare and my greatest fantasy. I went to Sephora so everyone knows when I get anxious or stressed, I go to Sephora. This is not a paid ad from Sephora. There’s something about the lights that make me feel like I’m at a hospital.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s your safe haven. I don’t understand.
Yasmine Hamady: It is my safe haven. I don’t know why hospitals just calm me weirdly.
Josie Totah: Oh, my God. I love hospitals. I tell people that all the time, my favorite my favorite government place or like a place like when you think of a church or a bank or like if you’re building a town. I love hospitals because you know why? Nothing can go wrong in a hospital.
Yasmine Hamady: Well, that’s what they say.
Josie Totah: I mean, everything can but then.
Yasmine Hamady: Everything. I feel like everything– [banter]
Josie Totah: 100%. Everything can go wrong in a hospital. But the thing is, nothing can go wrong when everything’s going wrong because everything is there to support you. You know, power goes out. They have generators.
Yasmine Hamady: Tea.
Josie Totah: You throw up, they have anti nausea medication. You need surgery.
Yasmine Hamady: [indistinct]
Josie Totah: They do surgery. You. It’s like kind of like I’ve always talked about the sexual relationship with like your nurses. There’s like [gasp] that kind of flirty thing there. But, because of HIPAA–
Yasmine Hamady: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Josie Totah: –you never do anything about it.
Yasmine Hamady: There’s something so hot that’s like–
Josie Totah: Anyway.
Yasmine Hamady: –do you want your saltines? Yes, I want my crackers, like.
Josie Totah: And then they like–
Yasmine Hamady: Do you need some gel–.
Josie Totah: –you do the cracker when you’re like feeble. And then you can get–
Yasmine Hamady: And they feed you the crackers and those socks, the socks with like the rubber things on the bottom so you can’t slip.
Josie Totah: Oh my god, the best anyways. [banter] Back to Sephora.
Yasmine Hamady: Okay, so I’m at Sephora. Love it or leave it. Great show. So I was checking out and the cashier was like, okay, so your change is $9.11 and [pause] and we just looked at each other. And we’re like, so she, I was like, who’s going to say at first, who’s going to say it first? And she’s like, yeah, today is um September 11th. And I said, it is 9/11. And how crazy is it that my exact change was a $5 bill, four one’s, one ten cents, and a cent.
Josie Totah: Sorry.
Yasmine Hamady: The exact change.
Josie Totah: Do you, babe. It’s a dime. One ten cents is called a dime.
Yasmine Hamady: I barely use coins anymore honey.
Josie Totah: That’s so true.
Yasmine Hamady: I just use quarters to do my laundry but it’s it’s the way that it was 9/11.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Do you actually?
Yasmine Hamady: I use quarters for my laundry. I’m just like any other bitch.
Josie Totah: It is astonishing that I have not seen so humble. It’s astonishing that I have not seen that building of yours that you reside in and we’re best friends and sisters.
Yasmine Hamady: Your dog has been in my apartment. Your dad has been in my. Your your dad’s been in my apartment. Omar’s been in my apartment.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: [indistinct]
Josie Totah: The stories of my dad in my friends’ apartments are the best. [laughter]
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yas. I have to tell you, you. I kept thinking about you because I was at an Emmys pre-party and the entire cast of Succession was here. Uh there.
Yasmine Hamady: Don’t fucking say. [gasp]
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that guy–
Yasmine Hamady: I just got goosebumps.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: –you’re obsessed with. He was wearing the hat and he passed by me–
Yasmine Hamady: I’m shaking.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: –with a drink in his hand and the hat and I was like, I wish I could take–
Yasmine Hamady: Jeremy Strong.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: A mental picture for Yas.
Yasmine Hamady: His name is Jeremy Strong. He is, yeah. That’s him.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: So wait wait wait wait.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: The entire cast of Ted Lasso, the entire cast of Abbott Elementary, the entire cast.
Yasmine Hamady: Mmm.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like all these. We saw.
Josie Totah: So bougie.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I saw Josie and I’s mother, um Amy Poehler. Like it was a great thing, but I didn’t know this until last night. So it’s an Emmys pre-party, right? So everyone and their mother is there. And we learn really quickly that there were waves of people invited to this. Like 50 Cent and like Jeremih and all of these people performed.
Yasmine Hamady: No.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: So if like you were A-list, A-list, A-list. You got an 8 p.m. invite. And then if you were like below that, you got a 9 p.m. invite.
Josie Totah: It’s giving exclusive.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, so it was so funny. And I was like, That makes sense, I guess like logistically to control the crowd. But I was like, they don’t care. Like PR wanted you to know that you weren’t a part of the caliber of people that they wanted to initially invite. But you know what? We’re here for a good time, not a long time. So I was still happy to be there and it was cool to like have conversations with people that I’m inspired by. But I was like, only in L.A. would there be four different invites to the exact same party. And we all know that. And I’m coming in with the last wave and we’re like watching like the head of NBC and like cast people walk out and they’re like, wait, why weren’t you here for the performances? And you then have to explain to them.
Yasmine Hamady: Uh and you’re like.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like.
Yasmine Hamady: Um.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Our invite said that this started at ten um and we’re learning very intentionally. Um. So that was really fun. But Yas and Josie, you guys were with me in spirit and I wish I could have taken mental pictures for you Yas.
Yasmine Hamady: I wish you did, too. I just want to circle back to the most important thing that’s happened in this episode so far. So what drink was Jeremy Strong holding?
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, I have no idea. He looked really cool. He had a hat on. He looked like–
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah he did.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: –he’s kind of his character, but thank god.
Yasmine Hamady: Ugh god.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: A much better energy. Um. The redhead was like on the dance floor. I apologize–
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah she was.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: –for not knowing her name.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah she was.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’ve watched the entire show. It’s phenomenal.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, she was.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. But yeah, it was. I was like, this is very L.A.. This is this is this is L.A. This is humbling. They’re like, we want you to know your place. And you know what? I ain’t even mad at it. You feel me? I ain’t mad at it. Okay. Speaking about celebrities and celebrity events and all that is Hollywood and people that you look up to or are inspired by. Today specifically. We are going to be talking about celebrity deaths and um in the light of Queen Elizabeth’s passing and all of the hot takes and sometimes very morbid things that people have to say that have also resulted in some very interesting memes that we have all seen. And then I’ll talk to you all about my people, mi gente, which I’m very excited about because it’s Latin Heritage Month, people. Woo! [rolling tongue]
Yasmine Hamady: Yes, it is.
Josie Totah: Yay.
Yasmine Hamady: Hey, don’t forget to follow us at @darewesay on Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube.com/darewesay. We’ll be right back. [music break]
Josie Totah: So I am a little out of breath. I’m a little exhausted and I’m a little warm because I just came from watching the Queen of England. May she rest in peace. Um. Her casket, I literally watched her casket from 25 feet away being taken down the royal mile from Holly Hollywood Castle, I think it’s called from Balmoral Castle to Hollywood Castle.
Yasmine Hamady: There’s a place called Hollywood Castle?
Josie Totah: I think so in Scotland.
Yasmine Hamady: That’s insane.
Josie Totah: Wait wait wait. Am I mentally ill? Oh Holyrood.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: LOL.
Yasmine Hamady: If we were talking about Hollywood and celebrity deaths and we’re like Hollywood Castle.
Josie Totah: Not me thinking that. I’m so LA that I thought there was a Hollywood castle. Okay anyways. So she died at Balmoral, which the queen always knew that that’s where she wanted to pass. So when the Queen died, this it’s like very um common knowledge that for every royal’s death, there’s a plan of attack. For they’re. Not of attack, but there’s a plan of motions and this. This plan is called. Op. It’s called. Um. They say London Bridge is falling. So when the queen dies, the secretary of the queen calls basically everyone in order of most importance, to least importance to announce that the London bridge is falling and that means that the queen has died. So first they call the primary countries that the Queen presides over and then the rest of the territories that she presides over. They let them know, they let the family know. They let the family come to the queen and then they announce to the rest of the world. And the specific operation that happens and that is conducted in Scotland, which is where I am right now, is called none other than how camp. How chic. Operation Unicorn.
Yasmine Hamady: Shut the fuck up.
Josie Totah: Yeah, it’s literally called Operation Unicorn.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: No way.
Yasmine Hamady: Why?
Josie Totah: I don’t know.
Yasmine Hamady: Whoa, that is camp. That’s a slay. Wait. Not that she’d passed away. It’s only a slay that it is called Operation Unicorn.
Josie Totah: So.
Yasmine Hamady: To be clear.
Josie Totah: Basically, Operation Unicorn means that she’s taken from Balmoral Castle to, I think, Holyrood Castle to St Giles Cathedral, which is where there’s like a little mass. And I, being in Edinburgh, I was like, I am not going to miss this iconic moment in history, despite the problematicness of the institution and the monarch as a whole, which we don’t even need to get into because that is a whole nother episode in and of itself. It is like a very iconic thing to obviously witness. Um. So me and my two cast mates, Immy and Aubri marched the streets of Edinburgh and we went to where we thought was the place to um start lining up. Turns out it was a queue. It was a wait that people had been in since four in the morning. So he was like, there’s no chance that you guys are going to see it like. Sorry, bros like don’t really know what to say. He was like.
Yasmine Hamady: Did they, Did they say it like that? Sorry bro.
Josie Totah: Yeah well.
Yasmine Hamady: I just don’t really know to say.
Josie Totah: The Scottish people don’t really like the institution, they don’t like the royals at all. They’re like anti royalist. So he was like, I don’t even know why people are here. Um. But we were like, yeah, same. But like we still want to be like in the know.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: A part of it. Yeah.
Josie Totah: Um. So anyway, we were like–
Yasmine Hamady: As an American I want to be in the know.
Josie Totah: Exactly. So I was like, but I also need my grandchildren to be able to tell the story that I witnessed this happen. So we just go on a little stroll and we’re walking and we see a gaggle of people lined up. It is as if Childish Gambino is the headliner of Coachella and there is like hundreds of people just like packed in this one area just to see the queen pass by like this, I would say like maybe like 60 foot um space. And we couldn’t see past all these people. But I looked up and in the building above me, to the side of me, I saw a bunch of girls with their heads out the window and I just straight up asked them like screamed from the bottom floor. I was like, can we come up? Can my friends and I come up? And they were like, yeah, sure, we’re like–
Yasmine Hamady: Love that love that.
Josie Totah: We’re number 11. And so anyway, we went to the top of the building and we had the best view. I mean, we were like 70 feet above the ground and we saw the Queen’s casket pass down the royal mile and it was pretty wild. Um. But shout out to those girls.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, there is something to say like that regardless, because we can all acknowledge, like what you said earlier about the monarch as a whole and the institution. I do have to say, I think there is room to say that we are never going to see another queen in our lifetime.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: We are not. And I think like that’s a really crazy, because it’s now Charles. Then it’s William, and then it’s George.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Our entire lifetime. For them, it’s been a woman, like it’s been a matriarch.
Yasmine Hamady: And we won’t see that ever. And, like. I mean, should there even be monarchs in the first place.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ugh yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: That’s a whole other conversation. But I do think there is something to say that like, have you watched The Crown? Every bitch ever is now like we need to watch The Crown because they talk about her like coming to this role of that’s only been men for so long and like, taking over. It’s very it’s very wild.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Jeez.
Yasmine Hamady: Um.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: But that’s a really good segue in to like deaths in society when we put them on a pedestal, aka celebrity deaths.
Josie Totah: It is crazy. I mean, even just being in the UK, I think it’s a very different vibe than being in America when like when the Queen died for instance, like how important she was to people, not even people that I know who are like not royalists at all. It’s just like she was like a grandma to people. But anyway, so how do you guys feel about the queen’s passing or like, what is the consensus in America? Because I’m, you know, being fucking flooded by the Scottish air. And so it’s different here.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Let me preface this by saying. Death is innately somber and unfortunate and difficult, um and I will never celebrate the death of another human being. That is not my make up. I.
Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think that that is not okay. So, you know. Um. Miss Queen, uh may she rest in peace. I hope I send peace and love–
Josie Totah: She’s like a drag queen.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: To her family.
Josie Totah: Miss Queen.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah Miss Queen.
Josie Totah: She was on drag race.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Señora Queen. Um. You know, like she was somebody’s auntie. She was somebody abuela like I that, you know, like she was a human. And um but it’s really difficult because, you know, as a Caribbean girl, myself, um being from the Dominican Republic, obviously a lot of my peers are Caribbean, a lot of my peers are African, um whether it be from Kenya or Trinidad and Tobago and places like that. And let’s just say the sentiment that people were sharing on their social medias was um very joyous, very, very joyous. I have never seen uh this quick of a production in regards to memes. I have never seen this eclectic a videos about a death in my life. Black Twitter is having a field day, a field day with a barbecue stand and a kickback where people are dancing. It’s kind of insane, but in all all sincerity. Um. Not that posting matters right. Whatever well like it does. But not that posting, doesn’t encompasses everyone’s life and like.
Yasmine Hamady: Sure.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: All of their perspectives.
Yasmine Hamady: Sure.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: But what I will say is I personally did not post at all about the queen’s death. Um. I think it is unfortunate that she passed, but the reason that I personally did that um or chose not to was because of, I think, what she represented. And um I don’t think that I can look at the face of my Black peers and Indigenous peers and people who have been colonized and still living under the implications of the imperialism and the genocide and colonization of the royal family. And tell them that they should be mourning, then they naturally feel like they should, if that makes any sense.
Yasmine Hamady: Alycia. That’s interesting you say that because I saw like Cardi B posted and she was like, I’m not, I’m going to keep my mouth shut with this one because I’m not going to hell with the rest of you.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop.
Yasmine Hamady: Like the–
Alycia Pascual-Peña: No because people–
Yasmine Hamady: She said that and I was like this is–
Alycia Pascual-Peña: –are really getting crazy.
Yasmine Hamady: People were going. And I was like, to an extent, I was like, Just give it a beat, like someone did pass away. We can’t. Both can live at the exact same time. There is duality.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: And like honoring like what she represented, but also critiquing and also saying what she represented was colonialism.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: And imperialism.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like.
Yasmine Hamady: And like.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And the con– that’s the thing. I’m just like, I’m sorry, I cannot sit here and wipe away the fact that she represented a colonial empire that legitimized and perpetuated racism and classism and genocide and slavery and colonialism.
Yasmine Hamady: Which I think is something to acknowledge. And I like, I feel like you can also honor that, um you know, she was a woman in um a male dominated monarchy back in that time. But um I’m pretty sure her crown–
Josie Totah: Male dominated industry. Royalty.
Yasmine Hamady: A male [?] the queen, was dominated by a male dominated industry.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: But like. Oh, my gosh. I really had to get off Twitter because. [pause] Like, Did you guys see the memes that people made of her at the gates of hell?
Yasmine Hamady: No. And Diana, Our Lady Di.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Frederick Joseph tweeted um and said, Only if the world had showed this much empathy for the communities that the queen and monarchy colonized and ravaged. And I’m like. Kind of tea like pinkies up and tea like.
Josie Totah: Here’s a response to what you just said. Because you can’t tell a community that has been oppressed how to react to things that are triggering and obviously things that are affecting them in their oppression. However, I’m not the most educated person on the Royals. I mean, I literally like I have like a like a tiny little like a sperm cell of knowledge about it in just the past few days on TikTok and just reading. But I think that a lot of people confuse the queen and um the people uh that are royals with the institution itself. And I think that you can separate the queen from the institution. And like, yes, of course, she’s done some like fucked up things, but she also did things that apparently were good. And she literally lasted through, you know, like over ten presidents and, you know, things like 9/11. Like she reigned for such a long time and was mostly a positive person in a lot of people’s lives. So I could see why people still care about her being dead. But I’m also just like. It’s just it doesn’t make sense to me. And maybe she is a symbol of all the problems. And that’s why I just. I could never understand why anyone would be happy that someone’s dead.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Here, here’s my thing. I will never take joy in anyone’s death. I’m sorry. I think just morality. That’s not okay. But in my opinion, I understand people mourning her because she represented the country. I understand having pride in the country, but I don’t think that you can separate lil mamma from. Oh, I apologize. I don’t want to be disrespectful. I, it was an endearing little mama, but I don’t think that we can separate the queen from the institution at all. Like the Queen wasn’t just complicit in UK’s racist history. She took part in it, like supported British torture of the anti colonization activist in Cyprus in 1995 and in Yemen in 1963, she expanded the British Navy, enhanced an economic framework that like exploited POC labor in the global south. Hid behind, um you know, like the statutes of the infrastructure that she was a part of. She was the face of an institution. I understand, like as a royal, I understand how the system works. She she didn’t choose to be a royal woman and she took on the position. But it doesn’t change the fact that she stands for an infrastructure, that people are still very much dealing with the implicit– implications, the ramifications of colonization.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: That she ruled under. So I think–
Josie Totah: I think you’re right.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I don’t think we can separate her, but I chose to say nothing. I mourn her death and I honestly send love and prayers to her family. But I chose to say nothing like I wasn’t going to be like, what a queen. I like. I saw a lot of people posting out of um respect and saying that they were inspired by her and stuff. And I just don’t share that. But I will never police someone’s language in regards to their hurt um dealing with oppression. But at the same time, I will never police someone’s language in regards to like how they mourn a life as well. Like people should do what they see fit. Um.
Yasmine Hamady: Sure. Um. I do have to say, before I ask you guys this question. Get the corgis out of Andrew’s fucking hands.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: What.
Yasmine Hamady: That’s what I will say.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: What.
Yasmine Hamady: They gave her, they gave all of the Queen’s Corgis to Prince Andrew, her son, the Epstein guy.
Josie Totah: The royals? They’re. Yeah. I’m like, we should just. I hope this is the end of the monarchy in general.
Yasmine Hamady: It’s not going to be.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Agreed.
Josie Totah: I hope it’s the end. I hope it’s the end of all the royals. Um not their–
Yasmine Hamady: It won’t be. But.
Josie Totah: –Lives. Let them live on. But.
Yasmine Hamady: Do you–
Josie Totah: No, I do think people are saying that they think that the queen held it together so much that they actually think that it might be going away or whatever. But.
Yasmine Hamady: If there was a celebrity or a public figure in our lives that have passed away, I feel like even though we’ve might have not ever met them, I feel like we, at least for me, I like I broke down when Kobe Bryant passed away.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hm.
Yasmine Hamady: And like, I think my heart literally broke in half. Was there like a celebrity that you guys, like, couldn’t get over? Like, it was like, actually a shock, like it was like as if a family member died?
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oooh, um I think up there for me is Michael and definitely Whitney. Like, till this day, I don’t know what it is.
Yasmine Hamady: Mmm.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I watch any Whitney video, and I get emotional or I cry. Um.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because it felt like she was an auntie. I also, like, just really resonated with her music. I think that she was like one of the best voices of our generation. You know, she came from a gospel background. Like. But. But it’s interesting because it’s like. People do this really weird thing when celebrities die.
Josie Totah: The way that people the way that people literally literally find every fucking excuse and reason to like when a celebrity dies. To, like, claim ownership over knowing them or like a relationship. You could have, like Lisa fucking Richardson. I hope that’s not a real person. Could have passed Michael Jackson on the street. And when she, he died, she, like posted on Instagram and was like, God rest his soul. When we met on the street and we shared air the way that he looked at me, I enjoyed that moment. I was happy–
Yasmine Hamady: No.
Josie Totah: That I could be there for him. And for that reason, I’m so sad. #mourning, #sendlove like bitch. You did not fucking know him.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Josie Totah: The amount of people that claim to have known people, or they always post. I’ve never understood if I even met a celebrity once, I wouldn’t post unless they meant so much to me personally, unless they meant so much to me or my community or.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: You know, they’ve saved me personally. If it’s just a celebrity that I happen to have a photo with that I have no connection to.
Yasmine Hamady: No.
Josie Totah: I know what you’re going to say Alycia. And I remember that.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Fuck. It just hit me and I’ll cry. Oh, I now cry.
Josie Totah: I know.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: It just hit me. No no.
Josie Totah: The way that I know Alycia so well.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, I cannot cry again on this show. Ugh.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. Two episodes in a row. She’s crying.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop.
Yasmine Hamady: Who?
Josie Totah: I think that when it comes to celebrity death, I think what sometimes hurts more is obviously not the person, not just the person and their personal life, which is already sad in and of itself and is worth mourning. But what they stood for and the work that they did for their community and I think that we can all relate to people that we looked up to who represented us and we’ve all had that.
Yasmine Hamady: Alycia, are you okay?
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m okay. I just. And Josie, I think that I forgot it because I can be so emotionally unavailable that I don’t like once again being vulnerable. Eew. But I’m working on it. Let’s all be vulnerable. But um Josie saw it, read on my face. Josie actually was the one who told me that Chadwick Boseman had died of cancer. Um. And why am I crying like it’s it’s this ridiculous notion? Because you didn’t know them, right? And I agree with Josie because it’s like. Yes. Mourn people, uplift people, give people their flowers, but honestly, give people their flowers while they’re here. But give people their flowers. Like I posted about Chadwick passing. Um. Not only because he wasn’t just an artist for us, like I think for Black people, he stood for so much more. He played so many historical figures, the first Black superhero. And he also died of cancer silently. Um. And personally a lot of people don’t know this about me, but my mother fought cancer um and she is still alive and being the baddest and most amazing woman I’ve ever met. But um.
Yasmine Hamady: We love you, Cami.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: We love you, Camilia. Pero a Mommy. But seeing her go through cancer and um behind closed doors as well, like, I just. My heart broke. And I’ve never cried like that over someone.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um passing. And Josie knew the effect that it was going to have on me. And still. Still to this day, I don’t know how you knew I was going to be that sad, um but yeah, it was Chadwick for me. But it’s just this interesting conversation, right, um about how we react to death, because it also makes me really sad. That even in his death. And I think this is a conversation that I want I’m gonna, leads me to ask you guys a question. There’s something that us as people do is also like we lack humanity in people’s death, like it, it seems like people fall on opposite sides of the spectrum. Like, you either are like, oh, my god. Like you try to fabricate that you knew that more than you did. Or you want to like mourn with them like you actually personally knew them, which is weird and like cloudy. And it talks like our obsession with celebrity culture. But then, on the other hand, like even and Chadwick’s death and Amy’s death and Michael Jackson’s death and Whitney’s death, people were like making fun of them. And like, there were memes of the way that Chadwick looked within his last like two years because he looked very sickly and people would make fun of him, like on the red carpet, not knowing that he was battling with cancer.
Josie Totah: Yeah. I remember being with you and um seeing your reaction. And we were also not to get too personal, but we were also Facetiming a grown man and see and I only say grown man because I want to emphasize how I’ve never seen this man get emotional in this way and to see him cry.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: We were. Yeah.
Josie Totah: Was was for me, you know, not to make it about me in the moment, but watching that, I was like, wow. Like this man stood for so much more than just making movies. He stood for a community.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. I think like a conversation that you and I had had that day was the fact that like. Um. Unfortunately, black people have had to become very accustomed to losing people early. Our culture does have like this obsession with death. Like, I’ll be honest, like Michael was a really hard death, like, because obviously for Black people, once again, King of pop, soul, all that stuff. But the way that people acted after, it made me uncomfortable. I found it eerie, like the way that people were like, I don’t want to be here anymore. Um. And people, people really and I understand someone having like a strong impact in your life, but it just it’s this conversation of like, why do we deal with celebrity deaths, like in a very unhealthy way? A lot of times. Like there is this obsession, there’s like this infatuation. Um. And also, let’s not even talk about the news cycle and how they become like vultures. Like, I will never I will never forgive this country in the way that they have publicized some of these deaths with just a complete lack of empathy. Like, for example, we saw Pop Smoke’s video dying.
Josie Totah: Yeah like TMZ.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And all of all of the media companies.
Josie Totah: Leaking all of that.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: All the media companies shared it.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And it was disgusting. And it makes us destigmatized to death and we forget like, they weren’t just celebrities. They weren’t just on a pedestal. They were humans with families. This whole Kobe Bryant thing, his wife, who just won a lawsuit because she had to see this on a television and she was finding out nuances about the death of her child and her husband.
Yasmine Hamady: I have goose bumps.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Through TMZ and stuff like that. That is insane to me. And I think that has to do with–
Josie Totah: The fact that people feel like they have the rights.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes.
Josie Totah: The rights, is it’s abhorrent and it’s disgusting. And it’s that also just a touches on like relationships that celebrities have with people in general and people feeling like they have the right to their privacy and the right um to like their information being disclosed. That is literally so disgusting. But I mean, I feel like it is it is crazy. I mean, remember, speaking of Kobe, wild tidbit that I don’t think a lot of people know.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh yeah.
Josie Totah: Or that it’s that important at all because.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: Obviously we are the least of important when it comes to this legend’s um passing.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Josie Totah: And his daughter’s passing. But we actually were supposed to film with Kobe, the two days um after he died. We were supposed to film a scene with him. He was going to be on our show and I don’t think anyone knows that.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Josie Totah: And so.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: People don’t.
Josie Totah: That.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: He was going to be on Saved by the Bell for our pilot.
Josie Totah: Which was so surreal. And I remember the costume girls had gotten his sizes from his stylist and like he fully was on the call sheet and and all and all of that. And I remember, I think like people in our school had known that. And so when Yasmine and I were with some of our friends from school and they found out that he died, they, like a girl came up to me, she was like, are do you need to go home? Like, do you need to like take some time away and like rest because like you, this guy died like, you know, Kobe and like. And I was like, what? Absolute–Like, I was like, I did not know him like that. I was like, I am, we need to mourn him for who he is and mourn him for his family and for the people that actually knew him.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Josie Totah: Like, why do people think that they can just pretend like they know someone? But even though it was very weird.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: It was interesting because finishing the pilot, which I don’t even think Josie and I have talked about, just because we were like. Um. You know, we want to respect the sentiments that everyone is like dealing with it in their own way. But like the energy on set had shifted greatly.
Josie Totah: Mm hmm.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. While we were finishing–
Josie Totah: Mm yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: –The pilot of the show. And. I remember learning that he had passed through my, through one of our best friends, Angelica Washington, um whom we love. And she called me specifically because she knew that I’d been talking about it for a month with her, that I was so excited to meet Kobe on set that I can’t believe that he was origin– like originally a fan of the um first Saved by the Bell and that he was excited to be on our show like our EP told us that. Um. And it was just insane because it’s, it’s also, I think. It’s really like beautiful and eye opening to see how like one person can change and bring joy to so many people like and you.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And it’s unfortunate that unfortunate, like some people live their entire lives never even seeing the fully full impact they had on the world. Until they passed. You know what I mean? Like. Um.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think thankfully, hopefully Kobe was given his flowers. But I think that there’s so many artists and so many celebrities that weren’t really respected for their true artistry. Until they leave, you know what I mean? Like leave this earth. And so like specifically with Kobe, it was insane to see L.A. come out the way they came out. And just like the whole world, like that man was so loved and so respected. In L.A.. you felt it. You felt the energy in the air change. And I was just like, Wow. The fact that one human can have that affect on so many people is so powerful.
Josie Totah: Something that I think is difficult for most people when people die is how immediately, especially if they were a mostly good human being, how they’re revered and respected and loved and given the graces that they deserved for all the good things that they did, but also how complicated it is when those people have troubled pasts and even like learning about Michael Jackson’s past post his death was wild. And how do we as people reconcile with someone’s problematic um past and also, you know, how they affected us in a positive way and how do we celebrate them while not silencing the people that may have been affected or victimized by these people?
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. I mean, I really, I don’t I, I don’t have an answer for that. I feel like what that makes me think of for the example of XXXTentacion um.
Josie Totah: Mmm.
Yasmine Hamady: The rapper singer songwriter who um publicly like he he beat his girlfriend, you know, like that. That’s a whole that’s a confirmed thing. And I always believe the survivor, the victim. Um. But it’s it’s very interesting because I was watching his documentary and like he’s talking about like his demons inside and like sometimes, like he he just couldn’t stop himself. But he loved her so much. And I’m like, it was in this documentary, you see how the world kind of just publicized his death. Like, there’s videos of him dead in his car and it’s just circling around the Internet. And that’s when he really blew up, was when he died. And then you see, you acknowledge and also realize like he beat a person, he beat a girl.
Josie Totah: Right.
Yasmine Hamady: He beat a woman. You know what I mean? And like in the documentary, his mom and this girl, like had a huge conversation about it. And you saw the pain with both of them.
Josie Totah: It is wild. I mean, it’s wild. I remember, you know, seeing reading all that about him and then um also hearing from someone like my friend Sky who was friends with him and how amazing of a friend he was to her.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: And like hearing the contrast between that and obviously the stories that I saw and I think the what my message would be to people or my message would be to myself is like, we shouldn’t feel guilty for mourning the loss of someone who did bad things for how they’ve affected us, if they’ve affected us in a positive way. But I think as people in general, it’s our responsibility as human beings to recognize people in their fullness. And it’s not always just keeping all the good things they did and also, you know, doing enough research for your own self to realize, like, you know, who they did affect and who they did victimize. And I think if you’re including that in the conversation, then I don’t think you’re a bad person for, you know.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: Revering Michael Jackson or revering people who may have been accused of things or someone like X who obviously has a very problematic past and has done some awful things. Um I just think it’s more nuanced than, oh, this was an awful person and now we can’t listen to their music or now we can’t enjoy it anymore. But like I said before, you can’t tell a group um that has been oppressed or victimized by any one person how to respond to that and if it is never listening to their music again and never wanting to speak about them again and um not wanting to be in spaces where they’re celebrated or they’re revered, then I respect that and I can not tell that person otherwise.
Yasmine Hamady: 100%. So I feel like if we could give you any piece of advice and this is advice that I feel like we would give ourselves. Um. When a celebrity when a public figure dies, um there’s an obviously with death, there’s not one right way to mourn. There’s not one right way to go about something that’s so traumatic like death. I think um. Taking a beat and just processing. And you don’t have to go straight to social media. You don’t have to um. Some in the like, nicest way possible. Don’t make it about yourself. Um.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: In the nicest way possible. Don’t make it about yourself. And also in regards I feel like to the people who are here and are struggling. Um. When I think of like younger deaths, like Amy Winehouse, when you think of the almost overdose of Demi Lovato, give people their flowers while they’re still here.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: Make people feel loved and supported while they’re still here. You don’t need to listen to their songs when they’re dead. You can do that while they’re alive, too. Um. I feel like that’s I feel like I feel like that’s a good place to just leave that there. Death is a very hard conversation. Um. Today’s episode.
Josie Totah: You should navigate it in whatever way feels most natural to you and–
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: –What feels most healing for you and whether that is posting or not? Um. I just would say to take a beat, like you said.
Yasmine Hamady: Take a beat. There’s not one right way to go about it. Um. This was a very interesting conver– to be honest for us three because death is a, we each individually have a very um interesting relationship with death, as one does. So I’m grateful that I got to talk to you three, uh to you three, to you two about this. Um.
Josie Totah: Do you tune in the voice in your head? [laugh]
Yasmine Hamady: Literally. [music break]
Josie Totah: We are going to segue right now to Alycia, who has a little bit of an announcement for us. Alycia, what month is it right now?
Alycia Pascual-Peña: It is Latine/ Latinx Heritage Month wooo! Wooo! September.
Yasmine Hamady: Ally!
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yay Ally.
Yasmine Hamady: Yay Ally!
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Are you guys allies? Um.
Josie Totah: Ally.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: This month, starting on September 15th, it is Latin Heritage Month, and I. Can I just be real with ya’ll?
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Can I just get something off my chest?
Yasmine Hamady: Get it off your chest babe.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: In this Latin Heritage Month, even though it is about celebration and empowering our community. Like I just had um the privilege of attending the NHMC Impact Awards, which is which is just a room of amazing people um in different organizations and different actors and artists um uplifting the Latino community, so it’s a beautiful month, but I just want to get off my chest how frustrated I have been um as not only a person who like [?] a part of the media, but just as genuinely a person living in America and wanting to be represented in the lack of Latino voices being supported in shows and being supported in as directors and writers. And fun little fact. Just less than a month ago, um a slew of Latino shows were cancelled. Batwoman, which was going to be led by an Afro-Latina, was canned. And it seems to be this trend and this phenomenon that, like Latino shows, rarely make it to their third season, rarely get to actually tell our stories in film and features. And, you know, we saw One Day at a Time, Diary of Future Presidents, Saved by the Bell, Batwoman, Gordita Chronicles. All of these shows cancelled being led by Latino people. In 2021, the Hollywood diversity report from UCLA said that even though we make up at least 60 million people in America, we are less than 8% of the people on screen. I think the exact number is around 7.1 people onscreen seen, which is insane.
Yasmine Hamady: That is insane to me.
Josie Totah: Deplorable.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then like.
Josie Totah: Horrible.
Yasmine Hamady: Holy shit.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: What’s really frustrating is as an Afro-Latina artist, I am always told like progress is being made right and things are changing. Aren’t you so happy? But it’s like I am still probably one of five employed Afro-Latina actresses like on or who was on a show as a series regular. When you look at the 2021 Emmy nominations, there was not one Latino nominated in an acting category. That’s insane. One in five people in America are Latino. But mind you.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: We’re not seeing ourselves in the media and not reflected that way. And as we already know, as we already talk about, like seeing ourselves helps empower us, helps not only us understand what we’re capable of um and when Hollywood chooses to not engage in Latino narratives. It does not only our community a a disservice, but it does the world because media drives perspectives and the way that we’re perceived.
Josie Totah: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And it’s just really frustrating, frankly, and I’m tired of it. And Latinos need to be seen more. Hollywood needs to invest in our stories and our projects, not only actors, but directors and writers. And also they need to market our stories because now our stories are being told. But they’re not marketed. They’re not publicized. They’re not given the respect nor the support that white or non-Latino projects are given.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um.
Josie Totah: And also.
Yasmine Hamady: But Alycia, I have a question for you.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: And so, like, as someone who’s not Latina, what can we do as a society, as um allies to support you, uplift you?
Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think it’s important that we’re all a part of this conversation. Thank you for asking. I will answer as a Latina, but I think you guys are a part of the conversation, too. And I want to hear from you guys.
Yasmine Hamady: Yup.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: How do you guys feel like you’re going to celebrate this month? That is going to be the question, how are we are going to celebrate? Um. For me, I’m going to celebrate Latine/ Latinx Heritage Month by continuing to live boldly as an Afro-Latina um and really engaging with the art from my community and seeking out things that um may not be popular right now. Like, um.
Yasmine Hamady: Mm.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know, I want to see indies from Dominican Republic. I want to see short films from Venezuela, Venezuela, Colombia, different places in the world. Um. So, yeah, I am going to engage with my art. I’m going to see how I can be supportive to my other Latine members and also see how I can share my culture with the people around me. I’m very excited. This week, our friend group actually has a party to celebrate Latine Heritage Month, which I just think is really beautiful because–
Josie Totah: I love that it’s at my house and I’m not–
Yasmine Hamady: It’s at Josie’s house.
Josie Totah: –even there.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: And she’s not there. I was going to say, as an ally, I’m going to a Latinx party on Saturday. I’m kidding.
Josie Totah: Something that I am going to do as an ally and as someone who is not only a lover of beautiful Afro-Latina Queen, that is Alycia, but just of um like Latin culture and Latin media and the shows that I’ve watched that I’ve been obsessed with and I’ve um binge watched. I am going to take to social media and even though I have a following, I think anyone can do this because I think we have power in numbers. If we see a show that comes out like Diary of Future President, like One Day At a Time, like Saved By the Bell that has, you know, multi-dimensional Latina or Latino or Latine characters, that we are obsessed with, is to post about it.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: And to come together and to implore to the studios, you know, flood their Instagram comments. It really does make a difference. Social impact now matters more than ever. And we see so.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Josie Totah: So much stuff getting picked up just because, you know, a fan base cared about it.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: So I’d say, don’t be afraid to speak up. Don’t be afraid to comment. Don’t be. I feel like that one senator um telling people to like show up at Supreme Court Justice’s house and abuse them. But I’m not saying that. I’m saying flood, use their Instagram comments. DM them.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: You know, look up who are the executives, who are picking up stuff. DM them on Instagram, email them, call you know the front desk and let them not let you through because that’s not how that works. But still, like, I don’t know, I think there’s a power in your voices and I think we’re louder than we think that we are.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: And that in order to see real change like Alycia said, of course seeing the people on the screen matters, but the people making the decisions are what is really going to create systemic change and fundamental change to make representation not only exist, but be authentic, which is what is most important. And I’m so proud to know you and I’m so proud that you’ve allowed me to appreciate your culture in a way that I feel is so beautiful and I’m so grateful. And I hope every single Latina and Latino and Latine person is thriving right now. And if you have a friend that is in the community, maybe Venmo them, I don’t know, send them money because everyone deserves money.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Josie Totah: Unless um they’re a bad person. Then obviously like don’t send a bad person money. But anyway yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: But like yeah, we love reparations.
Yasmine Hamady: Um. Josie. That was perfect.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Josie. Thank you, my love. You are so phenomenal in so many ways, but I think [phone ding] that is an important note of this conversation as well. Like. Even though Latinos make up so much of the American population. Unfortunately, a lot of our projects are deemed as just for Latinos. They need to be supported by people that don’t look like us either. Like Latin stories can also just be about the human condition. Latino stories can have universal truths, and we need to stop categorizing as anything led by Latino as one thing that can’t be for the masses. Like as Josie said and as I know Yas does like, they enjoy things that are led by Latino people. So we need to show up more and honestly, because of the infrastructure in which we live under and white privilege when white people are supporting a Latin show that helps us. So we need that. We need allyship like people who aren’t Latine need to be a part of the conversation. And I think Latine people just need to be empowered in their own truth and their own voice and know that we’re capable.
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Even though that we’re not always respected. I think that a renaissance is happening, and hopefully, even if it’s in a minuscule way, I can be a part of that change. And I’m so proud of seeing what my peers and other Latino people are doing in the industry. But yeah, so much needs to change. I think the industry needs to do better and be better, but Yas-y boo?
Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, I feel like for Latine um Heritage Month I feel like the bare minimum you could do is post on social media and speak out and show solidarity there. That’s the bare minimum. What I do think um that people can do is go to the polls.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.
Yasmine Hamady: Go to your um local elections and vote for people whose agendas because everyone has an agenda, whether we like it or not, and vote for people and speak out for people. Public officials who are making change for for different marginalized communities, for a Latinx, you have to go to the polls. You have to vote. You have to speak up. Also, another like this is just in media. John Leguizamo um has a phenomenal play.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes!
Yasmine Hamady: Called Latin History for Morons. And if you have the opportunity to see it, I think it’s on Netflix.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: It is on Netflix and it’s amazing.
Yasmine Hamady: Please watch it. [music break]
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Thank you, guys. It’s it’s important to note, like touching upon what Yas said. You can’t say that you support a community, for example. You can’t say that you’re out here supporting the Latinx community, but then being complicit in our oppression um and discrimination. So show up at the polls, show up in your own life, and whatever that means to you, and que viva la raza!
Josie Totah: Yes.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: My people. Show and show up and show out for your Latino people. Listen to us, consume our art, respect us for our fullness and see the beauty in our culture this month and every other month. So feliz Latin Heritage month y’all.
Yasmine Hamady: Dare you guys to be bold? Dare you guys to live, laugh and love. Um. And also if you haven’t. Subscribe to our YouTube channel to watch us look fucking hot. Remember to rate our feet. We want to get on wiki feet and honestly just follow us. Follow. Just make us look sexy. Think we’re hot and um show up to the polls this coming November. Bye!
Alycia Pascual-Peña: Bye y’all! [music break]
Josie Totah: Dare We Say is a Crooked Media production.
Yasmine Hamady: Caroline Reston is our showrunner, producer and mommy and Ari Schwartz is our producer and show daddy. Fiona Pestana is our associate producer and Sandy Girard is the Almighty Executive Producer.
Josie Totah: It’s hosted and produced by me, Josie Totah.
Yasmine Hamady: And me Yasmine Hamady.
Alycia Pascual-Peña: And me, Alycia Pascual-Peña. Vasilis Fotopoulos and Charlotte Landes, they are both our engineers. Brian Vasquez is our editor and theme music composer. Our video producers are Matt DeGroot, Narineh Melkonian, and Delon Villanueva and Mia Kellman.
Josie Totah: Lastly, thank you to Jordan Silver, Gabriela Leverette, Jesse McLean, Caroline Heywood, Shaina Hortsmann, Deisi Cruz, Danielle Jensen, and Ewa Okulate for marketing the show and making us look so damn good.
