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Jane Coaston: It’s Wednesday, November 19th. I’m Jane Coaston and this is What a Day, the show just noting President Donald Trump’s comments when speaking to a female journalist asking a question about convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein’s emails on Air Force One on Friday. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Quiet, quiet piggy.

Jane Coaston: The President of the United States of America. [music break] On today’s show, Education Secretary and former WWE CEO Linda McMahon body slams the Department of Education. And we’re one step closer to maybe finally seeing the Epstein files. But let’s start with two big stories about President Trump’s besties, Jeffrey Epstein and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. On Tuesday, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved a bill to compel the Department of Justice to release its files on Epstein. A bill President Trump opposed up until, oh, Sunday evening. That bill then headed to the Senate, which declared the legislation deemed as passed, sending it directly to the White House. We’ll get into more about the vote later in the show. But as a person who definitely doesn’t care about the release of the Epstein files, Trump still got very, very heated in the Oval Office when asked a very simple question as to why he didn’t just have the DOJ release the files himself. 

[clip of ABC’s Mary Bruce] Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now? 

[clip of President Donald Trump] You know it’s not the question that I mind, it’s your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It’s the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who’s highly respected, asking him a horrible, insubordinate and and just a terrible question and you could even ask that same exact question nicely. You’re all psyched up somebody psyches you over at ABC, they’re gonna psyche uh. You’re a terrible person and a terrible reporter. As far as the Epstein files is, I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. I threw him out of my club many years ago because I thought he was a sick pervert. But and I guess I turned out to be right. 

Jane Coaston: And he kept going. With one of his favorite words besides groceries. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] It’s a hoax. Now, I just got a little report and I put it in my pocket of all the money that he’s given to democrats. He gave me none, zero, no money to me. But he gave money to Democrats and people are wise to your hoax. And ABC is your your company, your crappy company is one of the the perpetrators. And I’ll tell you something. I’ll tell you something. 

[clip of ABC’s Mary Bruce] [?] So why not just sign it now?

[clip of President Donald Trump] I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it’s so wrong and we have a great commissioner, the chairman, who should look at that. 

Jane Coaston: Normal and cool. Definitely doesn’t raise any additional questions. All of that was in the midst of a fun visit from his good friend Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, also known as MBS. The meeting was intended to center on Saudi investments in the United States in exchange for military equipment and possible access to nuclear technology, as the US and Saudi Arabia become closer partners than ever before. And the visit was apparently super fun, the most fun anyone can have with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. 

[clip of Mohammed bin Salman] [?] Mr. President. 

Jane Coaston: If you can’t see that clip, it’s of Trump and MBS enjoying a handshake with a level of frivolity typically seen in sports bars. Which might explain why Trump responded to a question about the 2018 murder of Saudi dissident and journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a murder US intelligence alleged was ordered by MBS himself, like he was defending his very good friend who may have had a man murdered and carved up with a bone saw, because you know, things happen. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] You’re mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn’t like that gentleman that you’re talking about. Whether you like him or didn’t like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. 

Jane Coaston: By the way, the same journalist, ABC News’ Mary Bruce, asked Trump about Epstein and Khashoggi, and she should be credited with asking great questions that caused the president to dissemble completely. Before Trump’s meeting with MBS, What a Day’s Matt Berg spoke with the widow of Jamal Khashoggi, Hanan Elatr Khashoggi. She told Berg that she’s fine with the US having close ties to Saudi Arabia, but she’s still looking for financial compensation from the country’s government. And while MBS has said that as leader of Saudi Arabia, he takes responsibility for Khashoggi’s murder, his widow says she’s still waiting for an official apology. 

[clip of Hanan Elatr Khashoggi] He did take a responsibility in the sixty minutes interview in 2019, but nothing happened behind the after this. And since okay, he took responsibility but there is no real justice come through.

Jane Coaston: So for more on Trump’s minimization of the murder of Khashoggi and what MBS’s very friendly visit means for US Saudi relations, I spoke with Pod Save the World co-host Tommy Vietor. Tommy, welcome back to What a Day. 

Tommy Vietor: Great to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Jane Coaston: President Joe Biden got plenty of criticism for fist bumping Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in 2022. How would you compare that fist bump to the treatment MBS got from President Donald Trump on Tuesday? 

Tommy Vietor: I mean it’s it’s a state visit in everything but name, you know, because the the MBS’s father is technically the head of state, so you can’t have a state visit, but he got like the black tie event with all the business leaders. 

Jane Coaston: The Marines on on horseback. 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah, he got like the the Oval Office spray, the meeting. They all yelled at journalists together. So I think MBS got everything he wanted and more. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, he seemed like he was really happy. I I was I follow someone who’s like a longtime MBS watcher and was like, this is the most comfortable I’ve ever seen him and I was like, yeah, you could yeah. 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: You know, he was surrounded by gold and being basically [?] by the president. 

Tommy Vietor: Exactly. And and you know, and Donald Trump was basically yelling at journalists, like, how dare you ask this man about butchering a journalist? 

Jane Coaston: In addition to saying things happen, when asked about the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, as you just referenced, Trump also said that MBS quote, “knew nothing about it and we can leave it at that.” But a 2021 US intelligence report concluded that MBS did order the killing of Khashoggi. You might recall that also another report from the CIA from 2018 when Trump was president the first time concluded the same thing. What did you make of Trump’s complete dismissal of those findings? 

Tommy Vietor: He just does not care. He he he will side with MBS over his own intelligence community if it means the Trump family organization gets some sweet, sweet real estate deals in Riyadh, which it sounds like is what’s happening behind the scenes. We don’t know what other financial ties might be getting cooked up in these one on one meetings, but Trump could care less about human rights. It is completely off the table. He is all in with MBS. Um. And MBS has been completely rehabilitated since twenty 2018. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, it’s also interesting that um you know what else hasn’t really gotten mentioned? 9/11. 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: And uh it’s funny how, you know, that that Saudi Arabia’s role in 9/11, which actually came up. I think MBS said something about like Osama bin Laden was getting in the way of our relationship and I’m like okay. 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: Well. Okay. 

Tommy Vietor: That was an interesting moment. So this um ABC News reporter named Mary Bruce asked– 

Jane Coaston: Who was a baller today, like in that press conference. 

Tommy Vietor: Good for her. She asked a series of tough questions to both of them, like what about Khashoggi? What about 9/11 families that are mad that–

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Tommy Vietor: –MBS is here? What about your– 

Jane Coaston: What about the Epstein? Yeah, like– 

Tommy Vietor: What about Epstein, what about your family’s business interest in the Saudis and [?]?

Jane Coaston: And he dissembled like a pack of cards. 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah, and and honestly, like Trump’s reaction was so angry and over the top and he started screaming at her that he made Mohammed bin Salman, a man who apparently fired a machine gun at the ceiling when he got in a fight with his own mother, look calm and reasonable in comparison. Yeah, and MBS went on this weird rant about how um Osama bin Laden’s did 9/11 with Saudi hijackers because he wanted to divide the US and Saudi Arabia. And it’s like maybe he had some sort of motive there, but that’s not really what the question is. The question is about like Saudi financing for Al Qaeda and other maybe high level connections. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Tommy Vietor: And he just sort of ducked that part. 

Jane Coaston: To the point about business ties, President Trump also downplayed the ties between his family business and Saudi Arabia, saying, quote, “They’ve done very little with Saudi Arabia. Actually, I’m sure they could do a lot.” Can we get a quick fact check on that? Like how much business is the Trump organization doing in Saudi Arabia? 

Tommy Vietor: Tons, like billions of dollars worth of business. There’s like a couple Trump towers. There’s like a Trump kind of resort being developed. There’s lots of licensing deals. Um. There is a Saudi-linked business that’s doing like licensing and branding deals for the Trump organization throughout the Middle East. So there’s a ton of business being done. Uh. And that the Trump family is profiting handsomely from the presidency. And Trump, you know, went on this self-righteous rant about how there’s no connection between him and his family business. Remember the uh the quote unquote “peace summit” in Sharm El Sheikh a few months back? We all heard through a hot mic, the president of Indonesia asked President Trump, I have a question. Should I call Don? Should I call Eric? And Trump said, call Eric. He’s a good boy. Clearly, this was about setting up some sort of business deal. I think maybe like a resort in Bali. So like these things are completely overlapping. And what is getting left out here is what’s in the US interest. Like, what are we getting out of this visit? I still have no idea. 

Jane Coaston: Well, MBS said during his Oval Office visit Tuesday that Saudi Arabia will be investing one trillion dollars in the United States. Um. One, that number just keeps expanding. Like–

Tommy Vietor: Yeah. 

Jane Coaston: Not to sound like an elderly millennial, but this was real Austin Powers vibes of like the number just keeps going up. Is there any world in which that is possible? 

Tommy Vietor: It seems– 

Jane Coaston: Like first of all, do they have actually one trillion dollars? Cause I think like the you know, the Saudi Arabian royal family, very wealthy, but like how much actual liquid cash could they actually put into the actual United States? 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah, I think the value of the Saudi sovereign wealth fund is like a little over a trillion. So I’m not I don’t think they’re gonna push all they’re not going all in. I mean, yeah, I think the number started at six hundred billion. Um. Trump was like joking around with MBS that he was gonna keep pushing them up and up. I mean, look, I I I think that MBS and a lot of other leaders have figured out that Trump just wants a good headline. And if you tell him you’re gonna invest eleventy trillion dollars, like he’ll be happy. I would not hold your breath uh and wait for that to actually happen. It seems like a bunch of bullshit. Um. But I guess we’ll find out. 

Jane Coaston: A major goal of President Trump’s has been to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. It does not seem like that is going to happen. 

Tommy Vietor: Nope. 

Jane Coaston: But uh what’s your take? 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah. So the the deal that was on the table for a long time was the US would offer Saudi Arabia some sort of NATO like security guarantee in exchange for the Saudis normalizing relations with Israel. The the second half of that deal just didn’t come up at this meeting. And it seems like what Trump is going to do is give the Saudis like a security guarantee via executive order, like he did with Qatar, which means it won’t be ratified by Congress. And that’s in part because Congress would demand this Israel piece of the deal to come through as well. Um. It seems like normalization between the Saudis and Israel is off the table because of the war in Gaza and because the Israelis refused to uh begin the process even of creating a Palestinian state, and that’s a non starter for MBS. So um interesting that the Saudis just got what they want without giving up anything. 

Jane Coaston: I mean, to that point, how significant are the Trump administration’s plans to sell F 35 jets to Saudi Arabia? 

Tommy Vietor: That’s a big deal. I mean, that is like top of the line technology. The concern um in the US intelligence community, according to a bunch of articles based on leaks, is that the Saudis could then transfer that technology over to China and all of a sudden they have our like fifth generation fighter jets in their um in their possession, and there’s a real security risk there. So this this is a big deal. I mean, it’s something the Israelis would have to sign off on because they want what’s called a qualitative military edge in the Middle East so that they can sort of defeat defeat any other military in the region that might threaten them. Um. But yeah, I mean, that was a pretty big gift to the Saudis. I guess again, we’ll see if it actually happens. 

Jane Coaston: Right. Especially, you know, there were also hints about potentially sharing nuclear technology, which was a, a lot’s happened in the US Saudi relationship over the last twenty five years. That’s all I’ll say on that. 

Tommy Vietor: You know, it makes total sense to me that the country with the second largest oil reserves on the planet needs a civilian nuclear capability. That seems like no downside there. 

Jane Coaston: I, but what what could possibly go wrong? But um to that point, President Biden may not have been as friendly with MBS because literally no one ever has been, including members of MBS’s own actual family. 

Tommy Vietor: Yeah. Yeah. Some–

Jane Coaston: Famously. 

Tommy Vietor: Some of whom he imprisoned. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah um but his administration didn’t exactly hold Saudi Arabia accountable. 

Tommy Vietor: No. 

Jane Coaston: For its human rights record either. What do you think a sensible US policy towards Saudi Arabia would look like? 

Tommy Vietor: I mean, I think, yeah, you’re right. The tail of the tape is in2018, remember, MBS came to the United States and he had a three week long visit where he met with like business leaders. He went to Harvard, he went to MIT, he went to Washington. Everyone wrote about what a great reformer he was and how it was this like sea change.

Jane Coaston: Women can drive. 

Tommy Vietor: Women can drive. And then by the way, he threw those women in jail. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Tommy Vietor: Then he murdered Jamal Khashoggi. 

Jane Coaston: Right. 

Tommy Vietor: And so there was this kind of nadir in 2019 where the business community kind of backed off for a minute, but eventually they were like, well, he’s got a sovereign wealth fund with a trillion dollars. So they moved back in. Joe Biden ran saying he would turn Saudi Arabia into a pariah state. And then when he got into office, gas prices were really high. And he needed the Saudis to convince OPEC to release or drill for more oil and get prices down. So he went over to Saudi Arabia and he did the infamous fist bump. I think like a reasonable um US Saudi relationship would be one that is just a little more rational. Like we should have human rights as part of the component. Um. If you want to push for Saudi normalization with Israel, that’s okay. But I don’t think that’s like the end all be all. Like I’m not really sure what that gets the United States. There can be a military to military relationship. We don’t want the Saudis completely abandoning us as a partner and you know getting everything from the Chinese, but that doesn’t mean we have to give them everything. They don’t need F 35s or top-of-the-line AI chips or whatever kind of, you know, high value thing we have to offer these days. So I think it’s just sort of like viewing them as a partner in the region, but one with some guardrails around it. So we care about human rights and like US values. We don’t have to just abandon them. 

Jane Coaston: I mean that Donald Trump doesn’t have any values. So like– 

Tommy Vietor: He does not care at all, he just cares about Don and Eric getting deals. 

Jane Coaston: Exactly. Tommy, as always, thanks for joining me. 

Tommy Vietor: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Pod Save the World co-host Tommy Vietor. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Congressman Thomas Massie] We fought the president, the attorney general, the FBI director, the speaker of the house, and the vice president to get this win. But they never they’re on our side today though. So let’s give them some credit as well. 

Jane Coaston: Kentucky Republican Congressman Thomas Massie spoke in front of the Capitol moments before the House voted overwhelmingly in favor of a bill Tuesday to force the Justice Department to publicly release its files on the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The bill passed the House 427 to one, with the only no-vote coming from a Louisiana Republican and contender for a not a great look-of-the-year award, Clay Higgins. A fervent supporter of Trump, Higgins released a statement on Twitter opposing the bill on privacy grounds. Yikes. The bill then passed the Senate by unanimous consent and will head to President Trump’s desk. Both President Trump and his little house speaker Mike Johnson failed in their efforts to prevent the vote, with Trump ultimately bowing to the mountain of pressure behind the bill. So after months of Republicans stalling and wailing and waffling from Trump, the bill passed both houses of Congress within a matter of hours, which seems odd for a quote, “radical Democrat hoax.” In a two-to-one ruling, a panel of federal judges in Texas struck down the now infamous newly drawn state congressional maps, engineered to make five districts more favorable to Republicans. The court ruled that the new maps appeared to be drawn at the behest of the Trump administration. The 160-page opinion explains that the court found, quote, “substantial evidence shows that Texas racially gerrymandered the 2025 map.” Furthermore, it ordered that the 2026 election in the state, quote, “shall proceed under the map that the Texas legislature enacted in 2021.” In a press release, Republican Texas Governor Greg Abbott said he will appeal the case to the Supreme Court. The ruling is a major blow to Trump’s nationwide redistricting push. Texas’s map was, we might say, Trump’s crown jewel of his electoral hijinks. And in a classic, play stupid games, win stupid prizes twist, it may cost him and Republicans more than they could have imagined. Since Texas passed its map in August, Democrats have fired back with their own aggressive redraw in California, with Virginia and possibly others preparing to follow suit. California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom initially said the state’s map would take effect only if Texas moved forward with its gerrymander, but lawmakers quietly removed that condition days before the final vote. If the Texas ruling stands, Democrats may actually come out ahead in the redistricting arms race, though Republicans have already sued to block California’s new map. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] I said why do we why do we just pay this money directly to the people of our country and let them buy their own health insurance? And you know I made that statement and I made it a little bit cavalierly, but it sounded good. 

Jane Coaston: Tale as old as time. In a full stream of consciousness ramble Monday, President Trump walked us through his policy-making process. I blurted something out, it’s unrealistic, but the crowd liked it, and now I guess it’s my plan. House Republicans, meanwhile, are now only beginning real talks on how to tackle skyrocketing health insurance premiums, a debate they successfully dodged through the entire 43-day shutdown. At the center of the fight, whether to extend the Enhanced Affordable Care Act tax credits set to expire at the end of the year. GOP House leaders held their first full conference discussion Tuesday on whether to negotiate with Democrats on ACA extensions or push a conservative healthcare overhaul on their own. The problem? Senate Republicans are already weeks ahead, sketching out proposals that align with President Trump’s vision of sending health funds, quote, “directly to the people,” leaving GOP House members panicked about getting boxed into whatever the Senate cooks up. Democrats, for their part, along with a handful of vulnerable Republicans, are trying to force bipartisan negotiations to push for a clean extension of the subsidies. But some conservative Republicans are calling the tax credits, quote, “handouts” and threatening to blow up any package that doesn’t include GOP priorities like expanded health savings accounts or new out-of-pocket requirements for ACA plans. Even if Republicans can unify around a set policy in the House, they would need at least eight Democratic votes in the Senate to advance any bill. And the clock is ticking. Senate leaders promised Democrats a vote on the subsidy extension by mid December. 

[clip of Linda McMahon] The announcement really follows the plan that President Trump has had since day one, and that is returning education to the states. He fully believes, as do I, the best education is that that’s closest to the child and not run from a bureaucracy in Washington DC. 

Jane Coaston: Education Secretary Linda McMahon went on Fox News and touted the Trump administration’s latest effort to dismantle the Department of Education. How? By handing off some of its responsibilities to other federal agencies. In a press release, the Education Department announced six interagency agreements to quote, “break up the federal education bureaucracy” and quote, “streamline federal education activities on the legally required programs, reduce administrative burdens, and refocus programs and activities.” So what does this mean? Let’s see if the former CEO of the WWE can clarify for us. 

[clip of Linda McMahon] That is that we procure the services of other agencies. It’s kind of a bit of a test run. We want to move on a temporary basis some of those programs to different agencies. The funding still comes from the Department of Education. The management of those programs, the oversight of those programs is still at the department. But we want to see if what we think to be true is that they will function much more in a streamlined fashion and much more efficiently if we relocate those programs into other agencies. And so if we do that, I call it the proof of concept. 

Jane Coaston: What? The new partnerships effectively move billions of dollars in grant programs from the Education Department to the Departments of Labor, Interior, Health and Human Services, and state. One agreement puts the Labor Department in charge of some of the largest federal funding streams for K-12 schools. That includes money for schools serving low-income communities. And the Interior Department? It will now help administer the Office of Indian Education. McMahon says after this test run, they’ll present the results to Congress with the hopes that she can put herself out of a job. And that’s the news. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, wonder at Nicki Minaj’s headlining role at the United Nations, and tell your friends to listen. And if you are into reading, and not just about how the rapper joined US Ambassador to the United Nations Mike Waltz on Tuesday, to draw attention to religious violence in Nigeria, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and honestly, after all of the people we’ve talked about on today’s episode, Nicki Minaj can do whatever she wants. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Fohr and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Caitlin Plummer, Tyler Hill, and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of News and Politics is Adriene Hill. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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