"The Dark Horse Riseboroughs" w. Xosha Roquemore | Crooked Media
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February 01, 2023
Keep It
"The Dark Horse Riseboroughs" w. Xosha Roquemore

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss the Oscars controversy surrounding Andrea Riseborough’s nomination, the recent gay episode of The Last of Us, Ava Max’s new album of gay anthems, Julia Roberts and Jennifer Aniston hitting the big screen together, and Sam Smith’s new sound and aesthetic. Plus, Xosha Roquemore joins to discuss her new film Who Invited Charlie? and more.





Louis Virtel Welcome back. You’re listening to. Keep It. I’m the only host of the show, as far as I’m concerned, Louis Virtel. But I do have someone here with me. Say your name.


Ira Madison III I’m Ira Madison, the third. You really leaned into your Sirius XM voice.


Louis Virtel Yes. Well, I’m trying to blend in. Sometimes I forget that. That’s my coworkers. I just ask the people on the street. I’m like, can I go to, like, Sirius headquarters and hang out with, like, Nina Blackwood and the Eighties, MTV VJs and stuff? No one will tell me anything.


Ira Madison III They said, No, no, girl.


Louis Virtel They’re like, You stay in your 2000 TRL block. Queen


Ira Madison III They  said, Doesn’t Serena Altschul still have a restraining order against you?


Louis Virtel Oh, God. God, that fills me with endorphins to hear that name of all those people. If you say Gideon Yego, I’m yelping.


Ira Madison III So I was thinking about you yesterday because I know that you typically love dystopian dramas like The Last of US, which.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah, I’m always watching those things. Yes.


Ira Madison III Everyone is talking about which we’ve been harassed and harangued to discuss. But the key thing that happened in this past episode of a series I’m enjoying, by the way, I really like it, there was the Linda Ronstadt song which was a focal point and we’re not going to like spoil things, but also it’s a dystopian drama. And the episode was just about the lives of these two gay men who were in a relationship throughout the 20 years that the infection took over from 2003 to our current time, 2023. And let me say first. This infection apparently hit like September 26, 2003. And what a time.


Louis Virtel I would say, first of all, I came out November 23, so that is a very potent time for me. Like, I’m exactly right there. Like, I can hear Crazy in Love playing.  Like, you know.


Ira Madison III Yeah, Crazy in Love is there. And the movies that came out that weekend were Duplex.


Ira Madison III That’s what you lead with. Wow. Duplex, a movie I have absolutely not thought of. Is that Drew Barrymore?


Ira Madison III That’s Drew Barrymore and Ben Stiller.


Louis Virtel Right. Which that feels like a pairing. I would have said to you, they should do a movie sometime. Then we forget. Oh, yeah, they did Duplex, a movie that we dared to call Duplex.


Ira Madison III I mean, shout out to Drew Barrymore for really sort of revitalizing her career several times over now.


Louis Virtel And by the way, I just want to say, every time I watch a clip of her, like I saw that clip of her as Megan scurrying around Allison Williams. Drew Barrymore is on this planet to prove she is the most demented first grade teacher of all time. And she’s getting away from the lesson plan and she’s getting into the medicine cabinet.


Ira Madison III I think that Bolu Babalola, former guest host, she described it as benevolent Tyra.


Louis Virtel Why, yes. Oh, my god. I love that description. That’s so true.


Ira Madison III Like, there’s nothing malicious about it. Like, she’s she’s not going to harass Beyonce with inane questions. I don’t think even Drew would go that far.


Louis Virtel That’s very good. Very good. It’s also she’s more closely related to like a Kelly Clarkson or something in that like Goofball energy. But Kelly Clarkson, I feel like, is smoking in the teacher’s lounge. Whereas Drew Barrymore is doing glue stick projects and the teacher’s lounge, she was really committed to being a first grade teacher. She’s very.


Ira Madison III She’s Janine Tiegs.


Louis Virtel In Billy Madison, she’s Miss Lippy. That’s her. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Billy Madison. Okay. I was thinking of. I was thinking of Jet.


Louis Virtel Oh, Why were you doing that?


Ira Madison III Jennifer Lopez.


Louis Virtel Francis Ford Coppola. I’m sorry you were invoked.


Ira Madison III I love someone who discovered that he directed that movie online the other week, and they were startled.


Louis Virtel Again, when you look at Francis Ford Coppola seventies works, and then he moves into the eighties. Now the Cotton Club we love, but it really starts to fucking fall apart then One for From the Heart or whatever with Terry Gar. Anyway, moving on.


Ira Madison III She had debts.


Louis Virtel I guess she started and she’s about to get more at this megalopolis set.


Ira Madison III So The Last of US.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III This episode and actually what I kind of really loved about this episode is it introduced a different element to the series, right? It’s the idea that you are going to be getting other stories of what happened during that 20 year gap.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Like, you know, it’s very lost sort of in that respect. It’s just sort of like any episode can be about anything. And you’re also still going to be following the main story.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III And this story was about Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett in a relationship for 20 years.


Louis Virtel One of the fuzziest gay couples ever to be on television. I mean, it was fuzzy wuzzy. Fuzzy wuzzy was he was here. Yes


Ira Madison III Yeah, it was. Honestly, I felt like it was justice for Looking’s cancellation.


Louis Virtel It sure was. It sure was. It was very sweet in a way. I almost felt too prepared for it. Like people had told me online, there was like a gay storylines and based on the intense reaction, I knew it would be like sensitive and loving and stuff. That said, once I finally watched it and by the way, this is not a show.


Ira Madison III That’s for you.


Louis Virtel I’m attracted to, you know, like I’d like nothing about zombie-fication or dystopian. Anything. Like my favorite dystopian movie is Testament with Jane Alexander, which is from the eighties. I’ve talked about it a thousand times. Go watch it. But that is very rare for me to watch. But in this episode, yeah, it was sweet, you know, it reminded me of? Have you seen the movie Bill Nye is nominated for at the Oscars, Living?


Ira Madison III I have not, but I will need to.


Louis Virtel It’s one of these movies where he finds out he’s dying. This is not a spoiler. And it’s about like finding, like the dignity in the end of life or whatever. And that is sort of the sentiment here. And I appreciate that. I just personally, for me, disagree. If I’m near the end of my life and things are going awry. I mean, to borrow a term that Beyonce did bring back to the mainstream, I’d be going apeshit. I’d be doing crazier things. It wouldn’t be about dying. Well, you know what I mean.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I thought the episode overall very sweet. You know, it was someone described it as gay men’s Sandra Pedro.


Louis Virtel Right? Right. Yes, yes, yes. Which what wasn’t awesome. I think I like San Jude Apparel a little better, actually.


Ira Madison III I mean, I do love this trend of we only get lovely, sweet moving gay stars as one offs in sci fi series.


Louis Virtel Or even, um, it reminds me of the Versace show. There was the episode with This is not the same vein, but it’s like the the Judith Light episode. You know, you get these kind of pull out stories that fit into this larger, grislier context and make them sweeter somehow.


Ira Madison III Which is sort of maybe a backdoor way of telling these stories, since . Mthe regular ones get canceled.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes, you’re right. It’s subversive. And it also it’s all the more sweeter because you aren’t expecting them at all. Nothing about this episode was foretold and the one before it or the one before that.


Ira Madison III Right. And there were some reviews where people thought, you know, it was a bit manipulative and I might get that. For one thing, like drama was manipulative anyway, and it was a bit saccharine, but I will say that I enjoyed it nonetheless, you know.


Louis Virtel Yeah, no, saccharin is good. Every once in a while my friend who is obsessed with video games, J.M Encina told me it differs from the video game a lot where I guess one of the characters is such a dick that the other one kills himself. So they found a completely new track for these people. Like a new, sensitive, not harrowing track for them. But regarding Linda Ronstadt, yeah, so there’s a song of hers featured in the episode A Long, Long Time, which great song to pick out immediately when you hear that Her voice is so amazing, the melody is so memorable. And I’m not saying this will lead to a full Linda renaissance ala Kate Bush. That said, if you dig in even slightly, if you just get the greatest hits of Linda Ronstadt banger after banger, the one thing I always thought she was kind of lacking in her career was like enough signature songs, like she did great versions of standards and like eventually she went into all sorts of different other types of music that she mastered. But in terms of like songs that are just for Linda Ronstadt, it always felt like she had like ten less than she should. But if you get that greatest hits package, you will be super satisfied. I think people miss music sounding that pure, personally.


Ira Madison III They do. I mean, I went back last night to one of my favorites of hers, which was her cover of Your No Good Dee Dee Warwick’s original.


Louis Virtel Oh, Signature. Yes. Yeah.


Ira Madison III It’s a great voice. It’s sad that she doesn’t have it anymore.


Louis Virtel It’s incredibly sad. I mean, like just an astonishing career, but somebody who was like, God, I’m so bored. What if I picked a completely different genre that no one would ever expect me to do? And then she would go and master that, too. I mean, she’s like one of these wizard people.


Ira Madison III But it brings to mind, you know, if mentioning San Jude Apel, you know, I think that all these episodes too, and what a good TV show or what moment does like this right. Is it takes a song, sort of a nostalgic song, but not one that we it helps if it’s not one that’s overplayed.


Louis Virtel Totally. Yes.


Ira Madison III And it sort of like hooks you. I mean, I’m actually shocked that Sergio Perez total Eclipse of the Heart was so meaningful because I feel like you hear that song all the time.


Louis Virtel I mean, Bonnie Tyler Trends, every time there’s an eclipse, she points out herself. She’s like, why am I touched? She’s like, I’m just waking up. What’s going on? Everyone’s talking about me. Oh, it must be the fucking supermoon or whatever. I know nothing about astronomy.


Ira Madison III By the way, I was a Flaming Saddles in New York this past weekend. R.I.P. the L.A. one.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III The BPM on Holding Out for a Hero.


Louis Virtel Oh yeah.


Ira Madison III Goes off.


Louis Virtel Coke Eighties is a distinct playlist. Yes.


Ira Madison III It’s really faster than anything that was on the radio.


Louis Virtel Gloria by Laura Branigan is the definitive Cokey eighties lady pop song. But Holding Out for a Hero. I mean, you can work out to that.


Ira Madison III So that, Running Up that Hill, obviously from Stranger Things. But also I was sort of re hooked back on that song when it appeared in the first season of Pose too, when it was ah.


Louis Virtel Oh, oh, I love how they used it on the show. It became the signature song that when Indya Moore appeared for Evan Peters. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. What song would you pick in a devastating queer love story? I’ve got my mine.


Louis Virtel Ooh, that should come back, let’s see. Well, you know somebody I think that still could use a real renaissance is Tracy Chapman.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel Because I think when you hear her, immediately you have to stop and you have to listen.


Ira Madison III She did other things besides hang out in that car.


Louis Virtel I mean, you obviously had Give Me One Reason, but when she performed Talking About a Revolution on Seth Meyers, I think it was right by the Biden election.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel I mean, I would love to hear that. I mean, she has lots of great songs. Telling Stories.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, you mentioned the Tori Amos’ songs online.


Louis Virtel Please. Oh, I mean, where do you even begin? I mean, Tori Amos is one of these people are here. Okay. Among all her feeds. One of my favorite things about Tori Amos. Do you remember when VH1 used to have the show Storytellers?


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel Okay. So you would go on and you’d perform your hits and this sort of environment where you’re sitting on like a quote unquote ethnic peer one carpet. And people are gathered around you and you answer what your songs are about. Tori Amos I mean, this is I’m paraphrasing, but some would be like, Oh, God, what is, you know, Cornflake Girl about she’d be like a little old woman was sitting on a bench chomping on an.Apple and it’s like, no, she wasn’t. Like, she just went so, like, fucking bonkers. Like, she’s she’s so one of a kind.


Ira Madison III That’s like, Did I ever tell you about how I went to the Grammy Museum and saw Ava Max perform? And she described how the song Kings and Queens came about. And she’s like, because she’s on a date with this guy who’s this like, L.A. douche bag guy who’s like, taking her to this restaurant, like, trying to show how much money he has, like, whatever you want on the menu. I’ll get it for you. Anything you want. She’s like, I’m not really that hungry. Like, just a salad, some fries or something. He’s like, Anything you want, anything you want. And then she was like, And then I realize I’m no damsel in distress. Don’t need to save me. And I’m like, you did not get that song from that bitch. Come on.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah, that does seem a bit far fetched. There are only a couple of stories and, like, pop history where I really believe the origin story because that person clearly wrote the entire song. Like that story of, like, Michael Jackson being in the car and it’s on fire because he’s thinking about the baseline of Billie Jean, and he gets home and realize like.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel He’s in danger, basically. But like, right, that’s somebody who would have written that part of the song and then immediately shared it with Quincy Jones. Not to say Ava, Max doesn’t write any of her lyrics, but it’s like the sentiment isn’t so original that you had to come up with it arguing for a salad.


Ira Madison III Do I believe that Beyonce wrote the.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Lyrics to Bootylicious on a plane?


Louis Virtel That’s exactly what I’m talking about.


Ira Madison III I do.


Louis Virtel You need too. It’s like Santa Claus.


Ira Madison III Because I because I believe I don’t know she got the bass later and found the sample later. I feel like she probably found the sample later, but I definitely believe that she’s like my body so bootylicious for you babe.  That, I, like that is something you would scribble on a napkin. You know.


Louis Virtel I want to know like, well she listening to like a Discman of Stevie Nicks or was it like hit clips? I mean, the years like 2001, You know what I mean?


Ira Madison III You know who I would pick for mine? I would pick like, Breathe Again by Toni Braxton.


Louis Virtel Oh, Toni Braxton. I mean, I mean, like again when He Wasn’t Man Enough comes on, that’s people underestimate we’re in the middle of this Miley Miley Cyrus flowers moment when you get like a mid-tempo thing that hits just right. Like that’s sexuality in a pop song. I mean, I think people that, that’s forever.


Ira Madison III Gays of our specific generation. This song will always be famous at a pre-game and afters. When you’re out, when you have YouTube on, you will always see He Wasn’t Man Enough


Louis Virtel Oh, at least at mine. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. But I think she’s due for a run. It’s because we sort of had Tamar. Tamar got her moment.


Louis Virtel Yes. And Grammy nominations. Yes. Underrated Grammy nominated sister duo there.


Ira Madison III Yeah, she got she got her big moment after being, you know, sort of in Tony’s shadow for a bit. But I think that now we’re sort of really redo for like a Toni renaissance and also Aaliyah’s uncle still has Libra under lock.


Louis Virtel Does she really? Does he really?


Ira Madison III Yeah. That album was on Blackground records.


Louis Virtel Right right, right.


Ira Madison III It’s locked up.


Louis Virtel Wow. I mean, like in this age where we’re getting this weirdo Amy Winehouse biopic, I mean, like, the Aaliyah one’s got to be coming.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, and not a Lifetime one, right.


Louis Virtel I mean, I watched those, too, but I mean, I mean, did something significant here.


Ira Madison III I mean, not to delve too much into, you know, the like creepy like R.Kelly out of it all, right, but like wouldn’t Aaliyah like during the arc Howie Barry’s like fit just like right into his sort of oeuvre.


Louis Virtel Claustrophobic lost in a big house thing he loves to do.


Ira Madison III Yeah. You just like, hauntingly here, like Age Ain’t Nothing but a Number playing on stereos in separate rooms that every time she goes into a room that it’s not playing right. Haunting.


Louis Virtel And she clings to the Romeo must die script. This will get me out of here. Aaliyah, not much of an actress. That’s like my take. Sorry about that. Great. Otherwise.


Ira Madison III Speaking ill of the dead.


Louis Virtel Talk about a Queen of the Damned. Anyway.


Ira Madison III All right, so we have a very fun episode this week. We are, Louis and I are going to go head to head over the Andrea Riseborough scandal that has erupted after the Oscar nominations.


Louis Virtel I mean, it’s the only real Oscar scandal to occur. Well, I guess Will Smith did slap somebody last year, but like since like the La La Land, Moonlight thing where there’s like some debate to be had about it. I’m thrilled.


Ira Madison III I love it. I mean, this is what cinema needs.


Louis Virtel Yeah. And also that it’s Andrea in the middle of it where people are like, who? And she’s like propelled to the fore, former Keep It guest, Anddrea Riseborough.


Ira Madison III And then we will get into a slew of new music releases, Ava Max’s Diamonds and Dance Floors. We’re going to finally decide.


Louis Virtel Great.


Ira Madison III What her fans are called. You will hear it here. And then I feel like there’s always uproar over Sam Smith, But currently there’s uproar over Sam Smith and their new music video. Not Here to Make Friends. And also their album, Gloria is out. So we’re going to dig into that whole thing as well and a lot more. Plus, one of my dear friends, Xosha Roquemore joins us on Keep It this week.


Louis Virtel Born star Xhosha Roquemore. I met her once at Akhbar. Like eight years ago and I’m. Do you have to, like, clutch your chest ,like, oh, my God. Here it is. Hollywood.


Ira Madison III Born star and borned name for a star.


Louis Virtel Yes. Ask me a goth. As the letter.


Ira Madison III She stole her movie. All right. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.




Ira Madison III So after what is essentially the wildest Oscars campaign since Consider.


Louis Virtel Right. Which was a pretty significant one, if you remember.


Ira Madison III The Academy is investigating whether Andrea Riseborough was campaign was fair play, though, to be honest, if Gwyneth Paltrow was involved. I’m already a bit suspicious.


Louis Virtel Rick Caruso is also nominated for best Actress. Isn’t that too bad?


Ira Madison III Louis, explain this controversy for listeners.


Louis Virtel Sure. So Andrea Riseborough, who was on the show promoting the movie To Leslie, which when I went to see it, I didn’t know what it was about. And then I saw it and I was clutching my face like the painting, The Scream. Could not believe what I was seeing. She’s that amazing. She routinely is. If you’ve seen, I think she’s the only amazing part of death of Stalin. She gave us an A-plus performance in the movie W.E., which, as you know, Madonna directed and then inflicted on the public.


Ira Madison III I mean, listen, I know Angelina Jolie is Evelyn Salt, but I you will never recognize Andrea Riseborough in any movie she’s in.


Louis Virtel No, never. She’s in Battle of the Sexes. She’s in Birdman. I mean, she’s like kind of serpentined and her way through cinema.


Ira Madison III You see Mirren Ireland in a film and think it’s her.


Louis Virtel Right. She’s one of those people where she could be somebody else, too. So there’s that confusion involved. But anyway, she managed to get an Oscar nomination. And basically this nomination came about because, first of all, the wife of the person who directed To Leslie is the actress Mary McCormack. And she was the beginning of this campaign where she emailed people being like, this performance is really good. You know, she happens to be a very connected person, knows a lot of famous people. So that picked up quickly a bunch of very similarly worded tweets. And I mean, the exact same tweet was shared by people like Mia Farrow. Several other actors, Frances Fisher. Frances Fisher, Yes.


Ira Madison III She was the most vocal, by the way, because Frances Fisher was like responding to people on Twitter, too, just like she was. She was in the trenches for Andrea. Right.


Louis Virtel And also, this network picked it up and eventually Andrea got the Oscars nomination, which upset certain people because, for example, Danielle Deadwyler until didn’t get a nomination. I personally believe most of the consternation about this issue is from people like publicists and flacks who are on the payroll to get movies like The Woman King nominations. And they failed because Mary McCormack sent out an email. That’s how it feels to me. It sucks that Danielle Deadwyler is not among the top five. I would personally say indisputably, she is among the best five performances of the year. That said, people acting like anybody is quote unquote owed an Oscar nomination, that is not true. So I felt like there’s a little bit of bad faith about that part of the story because Andrea Riseborough is fucking amazing. You would never say she didn’t deserve or quote unquote, deserve an Oscar nomination. But it is funny that Frances Fisher, who is, you know, just famous for playing a white lady in Titanic, is at the heart of this scandal because she did the one thing I consider a running a foul, which is in her recommendation that people vote for To Leslie, she said, and you don’t need to vote for this person, this person and this person because their Oscar nominations are assured. Well, if you’re telling people to vote for one other person, that means they’re inevitably going to kick somebody out. So I think that’s like really nasty to be like this person deserves it and then these people don’t. And then putting it under the guise of mathematical reasons when it’s just you’re depriving them of an Oscar’s nomination.


Ira Madison III Also, the idea that Viola Davis was a lock already for an Oscar nomination. Like, have you met the Oscars?


Louis Virtel Yeah. Right. There’s reason not to vote for that. Also, I will say about that movie, which I thought was really good and Bale was really good in it, I would describe it as a movie star performance in a above average action movie that felt a little Disney afterwards. So I don’t know that it screamed Oscars to me.


Ira Madison III Yeah and listen, people have compared it to like Braveheart and other things. And, you know, if she was a man doing this performance, I’m sure she would have gotten nominated, to be honest.


Louis Virtel But like those also slip through the cracks like like a Tom Hardy in Mad Max, for example. You know what I mean?


Ira Madison III That’s fair. But I will also say that like a man being this big, like the movie wouldn’t have ended on it’s like tender moment either.


Louis Virtel Correct. Yeah.


Ira Madison III You know, and the awards really still go to like where we look at like best director things, right? Like the awards really still go to like a certain kind of masculine director with the sort of sensibility that’s still left over from the, like, seventies.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right. But that’s harder. Means more serious, which usually means more men. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yes. But a specific kind, you know like when Cronenberg isn’t nominated.


Louis Virtel Right. Well, you can’t be too weird. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Not not too weird.


Louis Virtel I can’t be sitting around wondering what’s wrong with you as I watched the movie. We can’t vote for that.


Ira Madison III He did almost slip in with his non weird movie, though. A History of Violence.


Louis Virtel Yes, right. Which, woof, do I not need to see that again?


Ira Madison III Yeah, that was dark. That was bleak.


Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s almost as dark as it can go in that kind of prestige filmmaking.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Listen, I would say about the Andrea Riseborough controversy for me. There are two things at play. One, yes, like the Hollywood machine is upset because they put millions into campaigning films and like for dinners and screenings, etc.. You know, when like, all they had to do was get emails sent out and like, Kate Winslet, like, hosted it, like a screening too, you know, like this is this was grassroots as grassroots as you can sort of get, you know, with big stars involved. And it’s sort of like, why didn’t anyone else think to just like email some people? You know, I will say the one argument against that, it’s sort of like if a bunch of like black people were doing this for like a viral or for like Danielle, right, like, would people in the industry see it as sort of like a race thing?


Louis Virtel Interesting.


Ira Madison III Like all these black people supporting this black actor, it’s like we’re doing it because they’re like a black actor, you know?


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. That’s interesting. Now, I wanted to see it. I want that to happen next year.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I feel like it will happen. I feel like if you are a voting acting member of the academy, your email next year is going to be like dodging Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi emails. Okay, just chip in $10.


Louis Virtel To talk about the nature of the To Leslie campaign. I think people really detected that this was out of the ordinary, that people weren’t just doing this to like this is their way of participating in the Oscars this year. It’s like they were moving mountains because of this one performance. This was kind of like a not once in a lifetime thing, but like, they felt really behooved to do it. So I feel like future campaigns that act in this regard are going to have to suffer in comparison to that because there is a surprise factor about what was happening there.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Campaign finance reform.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III Let’s talk about it again.


Louis Virtel It’s Daniel Deadwyler’s performance. I hope more people see. I mean, like, I think the deal with that movie is it was marketed poorly.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Personally, you know, I can’t think of anybody who heard that that performance was amazing, which it is. I mean, we can’t stop talking about how great that performance was. And yet I don’t feel like I’m hearing people say, like, and you have to see that movie still.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And that’s sort of like I feel like the marketing that also goes along with, you know, black films and actresses. And there was a a great report, you know, on black actors and directors and everything and just sort of like the dearth of nominations that they’ve had, particularly because if this feels a lot like Clemency all over again, you know?


Louis Virtel Right, right, right.


Ira Madison III Same director, too.


Louis Virtel Oh, no, not a pattern.


Ira Madison III She just can’t get booked.


Louis Virtel Yeah. This Alfre Woodard moment will come.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel We’ve done her dirty too long, but.


Ira Madison III This is also the thing of, you know, sort of like, do women and do women of color, you know, sort of like divest from the Oscars with their own sort of ceremony. And my thing is, one, I would love it. But my caveat is, yes, we have awards like the BET awards. You know, we have, you know, the GLAAD awards. You know, like other communities have things that aren’t, you know, specifically just catered to like, you know, the white industry, but.


Louis Virtel Mm hmm.


Ira Madison III I would love another awards thing that has a bit of taste, though, shade. But, you know, like a GLAAD award. A BET Award, even Image Award, you know, like, it all feels a little, you know, like there’s room for everyone.


Louis Virtel Right, Right. And awards, the best of awards is choosey. Like, the reason we care about the Oscars is they leave people out. I mean, that’s what makes it good, you know?


Ira Madison III Yeah. And creates this controversy. So, you know, I’m like, sure. I love like a black award show that’s, you know, sort of like an elegant and ritzy. It’s sort of like rewards, like the best of the best, you know. But that also means that, like, some people are going to be left out, right, Because not everyone’s the best.


Louis Virtel And I think within that, not I mean, not just for the sake of leaving people out, but illustrates a point of view is what you’re saying. You know, like.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel Here’s what we think is awesome. And it it differs from, you know, this mainstream vision of what success is. And we celebrate that too.


Ira Madison III You look at the GLAAD awards or something, right? You know, it’s like mainstream films especially. It’s like just because like there’s some gay shit in it.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, Right. Mm Hmm.


Ira Madison III You know, it’s like you look at this category and be like, there’s no point of view here. There’s no, like, are all these the same quality?


Louis Virtel Right, Right. Well, even if you look at, like, best picture, like one thing that I think is great this year is that there’s really no overlap subject wise among the best pictures. But it also feels like those movies all got nominated because they’re just hitting different sectors as opposed to were evaluating based on quality alone. Like does anybody really think Elvis is like a 90 plus on Metacritic? I mean, I personally don’t. I think that movie’s a mess.


Ira Madison III I loved Elvis, though.


Louis Virtel Okay. You have clinical issues then. May Lisa Marie rest because I’m getting angry.


Ira Madison III I feel like that tends to happen to me with Baz Luhrmann films. I’m always like, I love this one and but I’m always like, his past movies are. I start to reevaluate the past ones I make, but I love this one. It’s bombastic and it’s fun. And I’m sure by the next time this next movie comes out, I’ll be like, Oh, maybe this kind of stuff.


Louis Virtel Oh, that’s interesting. Do you think things they get kind of worse in retrospect? That’s the opposite of how I feel about Madonna. New projects. Remember music coming out and being like, Oh, this is so hokey. What’s this cowboy shit? Five years later, I’m like, Oh, that was pretty rad, you know? Anyway, I don’t know why I had to bring up Madonna right there, but.


Ira Madison III I mean, listen, we because you wouldn’t be Keep It up, unless you bring up Madonna.


Louis Virtel I’m just being me.


Ira Madison III Where’s that Boot Camp footage?


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. I can’t. Well, first of all, I can’t believe we fucking threw that movie away. Because. Because, you know, imagine watching that movie. That’s how I feel. But. But, man, the prep that Julia Garner went through, I’m sure she has, like, one large sinewy muscle right now.


Ira Madison III Uh, The stories that would have gotten from set, though.


Louis Virtel If they got out, I think that would have been in like a gulag.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Wow. So we’ll never get a Madonna auto biopic?


Louis Virtel No, I’m telling we you know, Ryan Murphy is going to get there. And I’ve expressed my actual cautious optimism about that. I think he will do it well.


Ira Madison III But, you know, I think that would be good, though. I called it auto biopic before because I think that the idea of an autobiography as a book is fine. You’re telling your story, I think an auto biopic, you directing your own story is a bit. All right.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III You know, because there’s there’s there’s a little bit more final going on here than with, like an editor or something else that’s in a book where you’re also a bit more expansive and really can dig in the things. I’m like, who knows what this Madonna story would have been from her eyes, right?


Louis Virtel I just don’t picture her having the shorthand of someone like Bob Fosse doing all that jazz where it’s like, Oh, you picked up a fuckin zany angle on your own life. And it is self-indulgent, but it is also one of a kind.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. It’s also an indictment of himself.


Louis Virtel Right. Right.


Ira Madison III In ways. And I do wonder, like, what? What what brains, what brains soup is happening in Madonna’s head right now. Like, how does she remember the nineties?


Louis Virtel Right. No again, I really think it’s. She’s way too interested in the people she knew once upon a time.


Ira Madison III She’s right. Whatever. She’s like, Oh, I do. Tupac, You know.


Louis Virtel The movie should be called I Knew Tupac. Wait, wait for him to be in this movie, Wait Forever. Back to Andrea Riseborough, the star of Madonna’s W.E.. People who don’t talk to me about movies normally are coming up to me and saying they loved To Leslie. I mean, again, something special is happening with that movie specifically. So honestly, in a way, I think she’s a contender for the win because there’s such a weird fire beneath that performance now. And Cate Blanchett is now sort of shirking the moment. She gave a speech at the Critics Choice Awards where she’s like called the whole awards process patriarchal. Like it felt like a kind of a buzzkill. So I don’t know how people are going to respond to that. It sort of feels like Andrea is on the up and up. Obviously, Michelle Yeoh is still in the picture, too.


Ira Madison III Oh, well. To Leslie, thanks for everything.


Louis Virtel And to Lesley Ann Warren. Thanks for everything. What are you doing right now? I loved her on Desperate Housewives and, of course, Victor Victoria.


Ira Madison III Uh. Ah, now you bring that up, by the way. I was tweeting recently about, like, how much I miss Desperate Housewives and how much I miss, like, episodic soap operas.


Louis Virtel Sure. I just by the way, I saw the first two episodes for the first time. So I’m finally on the Ira track here.


Ira Madison III Of Desperate Housewives?


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III What do you think?


Louis Virtel Do you know who I thought was fucking amazing in it? Marcia Cross.


Ira Madison III She’s great.


Louis Virtel She’s the perfect casting for that. Like the slightly, like alien look. She gives everything. It was, like, constantly funny.


Ira Madison III It’s, like, really good. And I love the I missed that era of just like, there’s a long continuing story, but they each have, like, a different story each week. Very Sex of the City is to like. Yeah. I was just thinking about that a lot because I just started Poker Face, which I think is amazing too.


Louis Virtel Like I haven’t started it yet. I need to. I need to.


Ira Madison III But it’s great that it’s just, you know, it’s Ryan Johnson who’s fucking brain, you know, and he the genre shit that he loves. It starts out with this big story that Natasha Lyonne is wrapped up in, and then she’s on the run, but then solving cases around people that she meets, you know? But it’s never like, Oh, there’s this big conspiracy that’s happening where it’s going to like, unfold in each episode. No, that’s just like, that’s just the conceit for the series.


Louis Virtel Oh, it’s very like Veronica Mars. Like, you get back to the big mystery at the end.


Ira Madison III But even that now there’s no big mystery. It’s just a case of the Week series.


Louis Virtel Oh, I see. It’s just episodic. Yeah. No, he’s calling back to, like, Columbo or Mannix. Yeah. Out of those shows. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah, It’s like they have a big origin story. But other than that, like, it’s Case of the week.


Louis Virtel I kind of get into that.


Ira Madison III Which is so much fun and that and also because it’s Peacock and it’s Ryan Johnson and it’s elevated. That means you get guest stars like Laurel, Hong Child, you know, and Benjamin Bratt and Adrien Brody. You know, Dacha Polanco, like there are like there are big guest stars who will do like the one episode of this TV show. And it feels like an old, you know, like those old Columbo, like the other crime shows when you would see like, big like movie stars or something, like appearing in like one episode of this crime show.


Louis Virtel And it’s it’s really fun guest star appearances. Like, I feel like the idea of guest star on a drama turned into SVU, where it’s just that there are cross-eyed pedophile and they’re out here to get a Emmy. But in that case, it like it really featured them and they got to be, you know, really pop and have fun and be sinister.


Ira Madison III Right. It should be fun for your, Friends and Law and Order ruined guest stars on TV.


Louis Virtel Totally. Totally. To say nothing of Cynthia Nixon’s deserved second Emmy or an Margaret’s Emmy. But no, no, I’m very excited to see this. Also, again, it’s just obviously, everybody knows this about Ryan Johnson, but just that we have somebody that is so honoring an obsession with particular and kind of bygone genres of the past and finding a way to update them. I mean, it’s just awesome. It’s like I’m so thankful for that.


Ira Madison III Yeah. All right. When we’re back, we’ll be joined by Xosha Roquemore, to discuss her latest film, Who Invited Charlie?




Ira Madison III Our guest today is always the funniest person in the room. You know her from stealing every scene in The Mindy Project, I’m Dying Up Here and Black Monday. And now you can catch her in the touching pandemic comedy, Who Invited Charlie? Please welcome to Keep It Xhosha Roquemore.


Xosha Roquemore Hey.


Ira Madison III Hi, How are you? I feel like I haven’t seen you in a minute.


Xosha Roquemore In a minute. I know. I think probably the last time I saw you might have been the Sorry to Bother You premier?.


Ira Madison III Yes. Yeah. The premiere.


Xosha Roquemore We used to see each other so much more before, I was like a mom, and we were just like, go to brunch and just do fun things.


Ira Madison III I know, but, you know, motherhood.


Xosha Roquemore And motherhood and robs you free time.


Louis Virtel I keep losing friends to this. Like I never thought it would happen to me, honestly. Like a lot of people, Like, I got to my mid-thirties and now people are doing it like, because it didn’t happen in my twenties, I just was in denial that it would ever occur.


Xosha Roquemore Right. And now they’re dropping like flies.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I’m all alone over here. You know what I’m saying?


Ira Madison III But no, it’s all. It’s always exciting to see you add something too, because I always feel like, you know, I know you personally, and I just feel like you are so funny. And I feel like that really just sort of translates to your presence on screen, you know? And I just sort of like, want to know, like, what is it about when you take on like a character that just sort of allows you to be like, just feel like yourself really, but also different at every role. But it really just sort of takes on this sort of just like sweet, like funny, welcoming quality to you.


Xosha Roquemore Oh gosh. Thank you. You know, that kind of stuff. Honestly, just, I guess, still learning about myself as a performer, like when I, like, read a little review or just the more work I do on starting to be able to identify what it is that I specifically bring up the like early in your career, you’re just trying to get in where you fit in and, you know, just trying to be booking. And so like you just have to do whatever. But like I go in and I’ve gotten like offers the thing. I’m like, Oh, you know, I think I’m authentic. I think that’s going to be I think it’s the audience is me. I’m a Sagittarius Sohn in writing. So like, I’m just authentic to my word, but I think that is usually what I try to bring to characters in the role. And I think that that is usually the through line or the characters that I think that authenticity is what shines through.


Louis Virtel In this movie. Who Invited Charlie? You’re with a bunch of people who every time I see them, I one, they’re so funny. And two, they’re like you. I feel like you could just put them in any movie. And I’m like, Oh, thank God they’re there. They like, I immediately identify with them. They bring it. Super watchable and super grounded. All of these people are really good. It’s Adam Pally, It’s Reid Scott. How did you feel working with this ensemble of people?


Xosha Roquemore Oh my gosh, I’m so excited. Honestly, all of my fans are just with Ali, so I’m just like, I’m happy to be in a movie with a lot of people, but I only got to work with them and I’m so excited about that because he’s so good. He’s so funny. I learned so much from him when I was on The Mindy Project with him. Just about might not be afraid to like, take up space and do your thing. And yeah, he’s a master improviser and a cool man, so I was really happy to be there and get to, like, act with him in some. Hmm.


Ira Madison III That is funny because I sort of like forgot that he was on the Mindy Project for a bit. And then it also reminds you of like, I met you, like when you were doing The Mindy Project. And what do you think has been your take away from the show now as part of your career? Just because it’s so interesting that everybody’s been talking about it again now since it dropped on Netflix and then when you were doing it before, but it was like on Fox, so like people were watching it before it went over to Hulu. So like, what is your take away of like that character? Like, have people had like weird responses to it now that they’ve been able to revisit it?


Xosha Roquemore Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, I’ve learned that it’s like a lot of people’s comfort zone, like younger people. I feel like it was yesterday, but I know somebody who’s like 25 currently, and like grew up on that show or whatever, so I grew up on those I nothing in my life like that, the one that people were like watching all the episodes and loving it. So I was people a part of my family and just honestly, that is like the number one thing to people. Like how many brothers and people come up to me and like, I love your work, they’re usually talking about that. So that’s really cool. And I learned so much. I mean, I learned everything over there. I’ve learned all lot stuff since the like. I learned what all the positions are like in the crew on satellite. What different like what a line producer is versus like a like a creative producer and writer producer. I learned that you can write your own show and it’s like I just, you know, maybe himself an expanded to see what she was doing. Everybody on there was a writer and I was like, on that one person, people usually want to hear what you have to say. So there’s like a naval pipeline to being one person and a writer. That was something I learned there. I learned so much. And then also just how to again, take up space as a comedian or just about like Ike and Pally and Mindy and stuff. And they just were not afraid to interact, which is like not always the easiest thing to do when I’m showing up on set, you know, just not the same line. But like since we were so comfortable there and there was this chance and everybody was so amazing, I want to just go off on these rooms and rant and they will be funny and they won’t end up in the show. And so like every something I do, not everybody’s I’m always improvising. Like if I’m not that like I mean, like I’m, you know, I’m reading Aaron Sorkin or something.


Louis Virtel I think he could use the improv more than anybody. You should keep in case he ever comes calling.


Xosha Roquemore Yeah, right. Yeah. That’s one reason I wouldn’t be so loud when it comes to other things, especially audition tape, because my hair is a one woman job, you know, on my own on the day. It might be different, but yeah, I learn that the how to being in my mirrors on maybe it was like grad school to me. I was like.


Louis Virtel But one of my favorite questions is just so why are you funny? Do you feel you’ve been funny your entire life or do you feel like you know something happened? You realize, Oh, there’s, there’s some value to being funny and then you developed it. Or were you always funny?


Xosha Roquemore I always remember being funny. My mom being little. My yeah, I don’t know. Truthful. Well, I think that woman wasn’t funny at all. Even like, if my family thinks stupid or a fool, like, since I remember your mom’s like her goofy. Yeah. And I always definitely love to get a response out of people, so I think that put into it too.


Ira Madison III One of my also favorite interactions with you too was, um, we were at this R.I.P., this Mexican restaurant. I don’t even remember the name of it. Carmen’s or something on the East side.


Xosha Roquemore Oh yeah.


Ira Madison III Yes. But I remember we were there and you had introduced me to Donald Glover that night because he happened to be there. Yes. And then you were in Atlanta as well. Ah, you know, so like, what was doing your comedy like in Atlanta or even like, ah, Black Monday where, you know, like you’re getting to act, you know, opposite, you know, like you have Donald here or we got Regina, you know, Don Cheadle. They’re, you know, like this is like a different kind of comedy that, you know, like with black folks doing like a newer thing than opposed to, you know, like a network sitcom.


Xosha Roquemore Right.  Well, Atlanta was so fun and cool. We were literally in Paris. Like, honestly, I mean, I didn’t even like the stuff I had to say was definitely funny, but that show was so nuts, all I had to do was just truthfully respond to like what was happening because I was always like that. Everything was so Atlanta. Atlanta is Atlanta every so often. And Donald directed it for like, exactly clear of you wouldn’t want it. And yeah, we had to respond because everything was fucking crazy. I would just like respond truthfully. Yeah, Black Monday was so fun and cool. We’re kind of like the people who the showrunners and the producers are, So they’re comedy people. They’re like, No, I mean, they see like at the end of the day, I’m kind of like the Black Monday. Not a network show, but like. Their whole their comedy lines are kind of like similar to the comedy that I was used to, you know, like they went to the show if they wanted to have fun. They want you to bring your own thing to it. So I have to, like, you know, take me rather while working with Don Cheadle, because he’s literally a legend. One of my favorite actors in Iconic period. But he’s another masterful improviser and same original, like, so kind of like all the stuff I had done on me was kind of shown on the air, but this was a different kind of dialog.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Xosha Roquemore You know, like longer chunks, more FBI. A little more wordy. But it was literally, like, discerning why they’re having fun. People trying things. And we all share the common comedy. You know, like everybody, they’re waiting for you to be offensive. It was pretty. It was more similar than I thought it would be.


Louis Virtel Does working all the time change your appetite for what you watch in your spare time? Like, do you find you watch things you would you would maybe never be in awe? Like what actually occupies this part of your brain that like, just just consuming this stuff anyway.


Xosha Roquemore Oh, my God. I love that you think I’m working all the time. I got hung up there. We’re I remember getting.


Louis Virtel It sort fucking looks like and I’m looking down your credits. I’m like, This woman has not taken a break in seven years. Oh, my God.


Xosha Roquemore I’m. I’m always going to break. That’s why I love to on that. Yeah, I’m always working on it. I just, like, kind of. I mean, not really. I don’t watch TV. I usually watch everything that everyone watches because I love to be a part of the conversation. So like, I’m definitely going to watch anything that people are tweeting about, unless it’s just like a hard no for me. The only time I watch way more TV than movies. Like I feel like I’m such a Gen Z, because I’m like, uh, a movie like, rather like 500 hours, probably so. But yeah, no, I was at the start of May and the time I was, I just watched what everyone else watches usually just like and I’d be like in the Twitter conversation.


Ira Madison III Has motherhood changed like some of like what you watch thoough? Like what shows do you watch? You’re like, I guess I’m watching this for my kid.


Xosha Roquemore Oh, child. Her own shows. Oh, my God, she watches the, no offense she watches these crazy shows. She loves., there’s this show called Masha and the Bear, it’s like a Russian cartoon, like on Netflix. There’s like eight seasons of it. She’s obsessed. It’s like a little bad Russian girl who lives  with a bear in the woods, and she’s just bad. And always getting in trouble. And the bear is like, Oh, she like, always doing all this stuff. Like, my daughter loves that. She’s starting to like more like, now that she’s five , she’s fiveand a half, she’s like, starting to enjoy, like, legit Disney movies and stuff. Because when they’re like, in that fishbowl age, they like be like, Cocomelon.  Like these shows that are singing like The Wheels on the Bus. It’s like slow, weird animation. But now see, like, she loves Milan. There’s this little short film on Disney. It’s called Bao. It’s so cute. It’s like a mother.


Louis Virtel Oh, yes.


Xosha Roquemore She was seven, Bao right now. But I mean, and I don’t like it because it’s 7 minutes long. Because when I turn the TV on, I got to do stuff, so when it’s over, I have to come back And do I do I don’t like these Disney Plus shorts, they’re too short. I need the TV so I can do my thing. So, yeah, we’ve been fighting about that this morning. She’s like I like shorts. You only need like so many. Like, she loves that. She’s in her Disney Plus flare right now, for sure.


Louis Virtel You’ve actually done, like most genres already. Is there something you haven’t done yet that you’re waiting to do?


Xosha Roquemore I mean, I’m like TV, film drama, comedy. What a week.


Ira Madison III Have we done horror?


Xosha Roquemore Horror?No, I haven’t. Oh, man. I love horror movie. But, I, I have another theory. I mean.


Ira Madison III Is that is that something that you find that even like when you talk about things, you get offered stuff like have people reach out to you for those? Are you just it hasn’t been the right project Or like, do you feel like people see you for like comedy things mostly.


Xosha Roquemore I haven’t been offered any horror films because I will be all over that, I mean, especially what type. But I audition for a lot of them and not gotten them, but they’re like, Man, I could be in that. I auditioned for M3gan.


Ira Madison III Oh you did?


Xosha Roquemore Low key. Well, I want to play the lead role or somebody like that. No shade. They love to play like somebody going to be black. No it ain’t. THat’s my favorite game. God bless because, look, if  I would have been the black. But not everybody, you know, now it’s a black movie. Megan black. The the idea because.


Ira Madison III It changes so much if the Allison Williams character, isn’t just this white woman. Well, because if you were her that then, who would.


Xosha Roquemore It changes so much


Ira Madison III I’m imagining M3gan being like a black doll now, which is weird.


Louis Virtel I don’t hate the idea. I mean, I don’t hate it.


Xosha Roquemore Yeah, me neither.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III That’s now that’s a that’s M3gan three in the hood.


Xosha Roquemore Right? Oh, my God. Same choreography now, because I was like, I did a lot of like that, and I auditioned for and I’m like, No, you know, that wasn’t going to be black. But we are doing Tell me what I’m in it. I do like with White Lotus, I just like that White Lotus to be it. I don’t know none of the characters. I’m like, Well, I’m not going to be named to be the other couple who was with the be the white.


Louis Virtel Megan Fahy. Yes.


Xosha Roquemore Oh, yeah. Oh my god, who was so good. I love her. And I was like. Why? Well, maybe in some alternate universe, but she’s great in that. And I love that. I loved White Lotus so much, season two. But yeah, I just be looking at the survival vision for some time will come out and I’ll be like, Oh, my God. But, you know, she was so good at it and so pretty involved.


Ira Madison III Yeah. No, I mean, Meghan Fahy is like, really great. I just feel I feel like that is an interesting thing, too. Just the idea of when everyone’s invited to audition for things. And then there’s the idea of, is this really just the casting director, right? Casting a wide net so they can say we cast a wide net, or are they actually going to be like, Well, let me put somebody up in this, because, you know, I’ve been on the other side too, of like castings for like shows and stuff, and you hear them talking about it and I’m like, you you’re not casting with like because in the room they’ve been like, this is a meg Ryan type, you know? So why are you looking at Alfie Woodard.


Xosha Roquemore I’m dead.and it has to make sense for the story. Once I watcedh season two, I’m like, That wouldn’t have made sense. That man is not married to a to a “me” black woman. Like, yeah, like I’m in the world that they’re in what they were they were talking about the way that they said that, you know, that they were like, oh, there are like token white presenting ethnic one couple white with that. None of that would work like with the actual story that was on the page. So sometimes I maybe they didn’t really want to give everyone the positive side.


Louis Virtel Well, that’s fascinating. I really have never considered that like, Oh, you would go in for like a giant role and then, you know, something else is going on or like, this isn’t feasible or whatever.


Xosha Roquemore I’m more on that and I could talk all day about what I want.


Louis Virtel By the way, an underrated ensemble you’re a part of is the show I’m dying up here, including because Melissa Leo is one of the fascinating actors who Beverly live. She came up already this episode because we’re talking about strange Oscar campaigns. What was it like working on that show, which, by the way, was chockablock with guest stars.


Xosha Roquemore Right. Oh, my God. It was so fun. I actually was working on that right after I had my baby. She wasn’t even born yet. It was like I had a baby. I was not working. It was so bad because The Mindy Project in the 2000 freed up to do a lot of stuff, But I had so much fun on that because it was like about comedians, but it was a drama like move, like hourlong drama show in 7070s and the ensemble was so cool. I loved working on that, honestly, I loved getting to play a standup comedian like The Secret to my well, getting to like, you know, have a big set, perform it in the seventies, hair was bomb on that show. Well, yeah, I loved everything about it and the whole cast was so awesome.


Ira Madison III What was it like even performing like a guess you would call it like a fake standup set? Because I feel like the thing whenever you watch standup things and not I’m dying out here, which I thought was great. But like there are so many things where you watch it, like you see the person doing standup and you’re watching it and you’re like, Well, that’s not actually funny. So you know, the audience laughing at it. It’s like, What are we doing here? But what’s it like? Like shooting a fake standup set? And then the reactions to it and like, were you working with like the comedy or stuff with the creators, but then I also feel like it’s seventies, it’s period. So it’s not like, you know, like that’s more like Miss Basil, you know, that opposed to, like you doing like a current show where you’re a stand up, right?


Xosha Roquemore No, I thought I mean, honestly, on the show, I think I had one moment of like my introductory episode of me where I got to do my bit and then otherwise she’s doing the same act, obviously, like as a comedian does, same material. But I thought it was so funny that actually the audition material, do I have like do the set exactly like that was the audition and I was like, this is so funny. Like for the 70s episode. But she’s a cutting edge comedian. Her background and like, yeah, I thought it was great, but that show wasn’t collaborative in that way. Like they were very open to listening to what all the actors had to say. If we had like, scenes, you know, where they’re like, Who’s actually with me? And I was like, We would help. And like once they got like everyone was allowed to like. Contribute in a way. But honestly, I don’t think I had even changed anything in mind. It was it was good at work. They were just performing. It was so fine. I was like nervous, though, doing stand up because of all of the extras. I’m like, I fucked a bum today. But it was so great. I loved it. It was like almost the end of the country. We were Sudan.


Louis Virtel And good Lord, was it more convincing than still the definitive stand up movie, which is Punch Line with Tom Hanks and Sally Field, just as an anthropological experiment. Watch this movie and you will simply not believe that it exists.


Xosha Roquemore I’m there. I’ve never even seen that I’m a big fan that went were like they’re written onto or been of obviously, Chase Comedy Concert, from And Just Like That like the last one scene of like big man that one right.


Louis Virtel Yeah I guess like the ah the opening of certain Seinfeld episodes etc., you know.


Xosha Roquemore Oh yeah. Well. But obviously that’s going to be He’s probably writing those.


Louis Virtel Right, Right.


Xosha Roquemore That was the right way to go.


Ira Madison III You know, I’ll say one of my favorite fake standup scenes is and it’s so stupid. It is still the, ah, women be shopping in Nutty Professor.


Xosha Roquemore Oh yeah. That disaster is spooky on of the from the whole you’re like an evil roast comic.


Ira Madison III Yes that was really just like that era too where like like you did not want to like go into standup comedy because if they see you, it was like it was like a shark with blood. The water, it’s like that era. I’m just like, I’m going to roast people in the room was I’m glad I did not live through that era of standup comedy.


Xosha Roquemore And I would not have made it in LA, man. Look at him. You know, the father would. Oh, my God. I mean, isn’t it very sad? They were humiliated overall, like stressful.


Ira Madison III Uh, Xosha,It is so good to see you.


Xosha Roquemore Yeah, you too.


Louis Virtel What a blast.


Speaker 2 <AD>


Ira Madison III Louis, I kind of feel like we are part of the Ava Max Fan club. Like we have official pens.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. And my sash, which I wear.


Ira Madison III Yeah. With your other artist pens next to the Carpenters and Tori Amos and Aimee Mann.


Louis Virtel Yes. Well, there’s nothing left to know about me, actually. You’ve said all it.


Ira Madison III Uh, Ava Max finally released her long awaited album, Diamonds and Dance Floors. And I say long awaited because this is supposed to come out like last year. And then it got hella delayed.


Louis Virtel Like every album. I don’t think a single album has come out on time since roughly The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill.


Ira Madison III Which is shocking.


Louis Virtel Yes. And by the way, then that was the last one she put out, so that didn’t make her.


Ira Madison III So what do we think of the album?


Louis Virtel Now, a lot of people will say that Ava Max feels like an A.I. generated pop star, that she’s the neon outline of a pop star and not, you know, a person and that her name, you know, looks like a capcha and that there’s not much identity going on there. Don’t need identity when you’ve got the BOPs girls. One at a time, each one of these me in the car, I mean, truly, I should be pulled over because it’s such a good time. The new song Ghost on this album.


Ira Madison III Yes. Produced by MNEK.


Louis Virtel Hitting for me, who is like reigning over music. We were just talking about MNEK with an upcoming guest that will be able to pimp soon. But I fucking love this album. I love the last one too. Born to the Night on that album was fabulous.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I really think that. Like, she’s an artist who, I don’t know. You know, I think that she’s really exciting. Obviously, the gays go up for her. I’m just sort of like, What’s that tipping point moment for her where, you know, people realize that, like, this is massive pop music, that that’s fun. You know, I think the entire album truly it’s a no skip album for me.


Louis Virtel I feel the same way. I think that’s her whole kind of mantra, you know, just like, put out like fun music and that’s it. You’re not getting a moment like even Carly Rae Jepsen from time to time has a ballad or something. You’re not getting that from Ava Max At least this time around. She did have one soupy song or two the last time. But no, this time it’s pure. I mean, Baby, You’re the Problem, get me on an elliptical right now.


Ira Madison III And I’m just also wondering, like, what the thing is about her that’s not connecting with people because I played Baby, You’re the Problem for a straight friend of mine, the only straight friend I have, and he loved, he was like, Who the hell is this?


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III And then like, puts it on at parties all the time. And I was like, Where was the connective tissue that didn’t involve, you know, like me proselytizing, gave them access to people. You know, I was like, where was the marketing and promotion that would get that song to him.


Louis Virtel First, right? And just like, was Carly Rae Jepsen straight man in particular do like serious, like good bubblegum pop music? You know, it’s not something that you have to, like, trick them into liking or whatever, you know, it’s like a pure adrenaline job. Why wouldn’t they like it?


Ira Madison III We learned that in high school when straight people were talking about Toxic more than gays because we were closeted.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III So they were there was openly talking about Toxic. They were like, this is so fucking good. I think I love a Britney Spears song.


Louis Virtel I’m still getting over the awkward convergence of gays and straights ever Since You’ve Been Gone like.


Ira Madison III That, too.


Louis Virtel We all agree on this, huh? All right, fine. You’re allowed to stay.


Ira Madison III But I also think it’s just because, like Kelly Clarkson and Britney and like, in those respects had identities in culture.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III And I sort of don’t know what Ava Max’s identity is now.


Louis Virtel And I don’t think we’ve scratched the surface because who knows if there’s a surface there, it feels like a hologram. But yeah, I don’t know, because interestingly enough, she just, like, hosted something at Rocco’s, which is a bar in West Hollywood that Lance Bass owns just in the middle of the day on Saturday, like during brunch.


Ira Madison III Even that sentence.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III By the way.


Louis Virtel But it’s like, so that’s where you are, huh?


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel She feels right now in that kind of Kim Petras space of everybody. I know , aka gay people, know you have songs out, but you are mysteriously available, and I can watch you perform at that ATM. So I don’t know what’s happening right now.


Ira Madison III Except Kim Petras has David elevated thanks to Sam Smith and also Meghan Trainor. But we’ll get to that at a moment. Yeah. Yeah, I sort of feel like that’s the thing, You know, when I was what I was describing that story earlier in the episode about, you know, the invention of her song, right? There’s also that thing that she used to tell people about how her asymmetric hair Bob thing?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Like that was weird. Was that was that supposed to be like a connecting tissue to people to get them to chat about you?


Louis Virtel Yeah. Remember the shape of my hair? Now speak about me. Yeah. She’s always seemed like a Sims avatar. Somebody in the livin large expansion pack who shows up for your big party along with the fortuneteller or whoever else is in that game.


Ira Madison III And I think maybe that’s sort of the problem. And maybe we’re more attuned to it, because having lived in L.A., you know, like when you’re just around sort of like the music industry or people, you know, they’ll be performing, you know, like at the bars we go to to sort of get their name out there, etc.. You know, there is this thing of just, you know. We’re making this pop music and as loud as dancing is for the gays, etc., and then it’s just like. So what else is going on? You know?


Louis Virtel Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, it’s weird because it’s it’s a kind of music that doesn’t demand, you know, everything about their identity. You know, it’s not confessional. Really? Mm hmm. So in a way, it feels like, well, she’s not super obligated to, like, make that much of an impact on the person up front. But at the same time.


Ira Madison III Kylie does, though.


Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s interesting. There’s a sweetness to Kylie, and I feel like there’s a sweetness to Carly Rae Jepsen that people remember that. It’s like there’s that’s just like a slight element of a soul there.


Ira Madison III Because the argument against Kylie has always been like, you know, non confession. Right.


Louis Virtel Right, right. Yeah. I don’t really know anything about her. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Like secrecy on the dance floor.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Is actually Kylie.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III The one thing we know about her, she is always mad at a man who is not dancing.


Louis Virtel Right. That is a consistent theme. Yes.


Ira Madison III It’s like every other. It’s always like, Get out of my way. Or, you know, I’m like, Do you see me over here dancing? And it’s like, that is what her vibe generally is. I truly remember the reviews that came out after X, which I think is a wonderful album and an underrated Kylie album to, I would say.


Louis Virtel Has has stood the test of time.


Ira Madison III I would say, Yeah, yeah, there were critiques just because it was after her cancer recovery, you know, and once it was in remission. And I think she has like one song that’s sort of about it, which is Cosmic, which is a fucking gorgeous song.


Louis Virtel Yeah, but, and that’s still in a kind of it doesn’t sound like, for example, Tracy Chapman or something. There’s not there’s not like a seriousness to it.


Ira Madison III But you like listen to the lyrics and of you know that about her, you know, like then it will like tug at your, like heartstrings and like, I’ve cried listening to it when it first came out. Other than that, like, there’s no confession, you know, as opposed to what she’s always compared to Madonna. You know, like Madonna would sometimes give us too much information.


Louis Virtel Every day I wake up, you know, I have to throw the phone down. I don’t want to see that. Yeah.


Ira Madison III And about now, it’s more because she has a phone and there’s social media. I mean, we probably do a little bit less on the dollar because she had to what she had to call up Page Six in like 97 or something like.


Louis Virtel Oh no, she had fucking Liz Smith on the dial. Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III Well this is what I’m doing. Yeah. This is like I’m, I’m not in today.


Louis Virtel Yeah, but at the same time it’s like, I would say like we all love Kylie Minogue, but I don’t think, you know, for instance, like the rest of my straight family or whatever knows anything really about Kylie Minogue other than like that song of hers from 20 years ago. So like gays can tap into that a little bit.


Ira Madison III They discovered her again during the pandemic with Magic.


Louis Virtel Right. Which, which I feel that to me sounds like cruise ship music. I’m surprised people like that song that much.


Ira Madison III Well, you know, I don’t fucking like Dancin’.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Well, that wasn’t great either. Yeah.


Ira Madison III You’re the only one who’s listened to that album all the way through.


Louis Virtel Oh, come on Sincerely Yours was a banger, Shelby 68. Love that song.


Ira Madison III But speaking of someone who I feel like we know maybe way too much about is Sam Smith.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Who, as we said, you know, elevated a similar artist and sort of admires Kim Petras with Unholy. And that’s but I also feel like that’s how things like that happen in the industry, you know, Kim being featured on Unholy and that it’s number one and it’s on the charts for so long now, people are starting to know who Kim Petras is.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III But Sam, what’s so interesting about Sam Smith is we’re not that far removed from the era where. Sam was doing a lot of really weird interviews and saying a lot of like random things and just about coming out, not liking Michael Jackson and other random things. And people were just sort of like, Who are you?


Louis Virtel It was like a combination of they were seemingly very honest, also a little half baked. You felt like you weren’t quite getting a fully thought out quote from Sam Smith anyway.


Ira Madison III Yeah. So that is still in people’s recent memory. And now you have Gloria, the new album, which I would say for me is just kind of there.


Louis Virtel Sure. Well, I will say this about Sam Smith. I think something that’s strange about the Sam Smith story is the music is happening. What you would intuitively think like you’re getting the dance stuff now and you got the really awards grabby dramatic stuff before. It’s like, who? Who’s ever done it in that order before? You know, usually you just do the pop radio stuff and then that, you know, accelerates you into being able to get the, you know, the Celine style stuff that really gets a lot of Grammys and and an Oscar in this case.


Ira Madison III But and what I would also say is that. The dancey stuff sort of like unfortunately is compared to their best dance stuff, which they did with Disclosure.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Because none of this is meeting like, you know, Latch.


Louis Virtel Correct. The song Sam did with Normani, that’s the best Sam Smith song. Yeah.


Ira Madison III That too.


Louis Virtel Mm hmm.


Ira Madison III I fucking love that song. So I wish Normani had played in that field a bit more.


Louis Virtel That meditative disco space. I love that. That’s so specific.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Meanwhile, she’s just lost in a cornfield. Probably wasn’t there by the kid from Twilight Zone. Never to return. All right. When we’re back. Keep It. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. But first of all, I realize we did not actually even fulfill what I said in the intro.


Louis Virtel Which was?


Ira Madison III Ava Max stans. What are they called? Because there was this weird interview with her on the radio where she was like, Some of my fans are calling themselves Maxi pads. And I’m like, I don’t think that’s real. I think that’s like Selena Gomez stans, like just making fun of Ava Max stans.


Louis Virtel Right. Also, just because you heard it one time doesn’t mean it should be repeated out loud. So definitely not Maxi pads. I am absolutely fine with Maxinistas.100%. I am fine with that.


Ira Madison III I need her to hear Maxinistas thougL and like, you know, like really, really tap into it. Okay?


Louis Virtel She needs to maximize the max. It needs to.


Ira Madison III Okay. Like we tried so hard to get Little Mix to acknowledge her fans as Mixologists.


Louis Virtel Which is cute.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it didn’t work, but I guess you know what? A lot of them were underage so shouldn’t be drinking. Don’t drink kids.


Louis Virtel We’re your Dare officers now.


Ira Madison III To our under 21 let’s stay in school. Louis, what’s your Keep It?


Louis Virtel I think my Keep It is to the fact that we were due for a new body swap comedy just I feel like the time is now. It’s been a few years. The definitive ones are now like, 20 years old. You know, 17 again, didn’t really stick. But now the one we’re getting is a body swap comedy, and it involves Julia Roberts and Jennifer Aniston. Now, I am not seeing the cinematic value in watching those two people switch bodies, much as I love them both. And if we’re going to put Julia Roberts in a new movie, I’m sorry, there’s one mode in which I appreciate Julia Roberts most, and I hope you’ll pardon my French. As you know, I’m not a profane person, but Julia Roberts needs to be playing a fucking cunt. Because she is deliciously cunty and her best movies as of the past 15 years, including August Osage County. I want her to be intimidating, mean and absolutely obliterating people with one liners like Erin Brockovich. That should have been just the beginning of that segment of her career.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. My Best Friend’s Wedding. I do. I will honestly say that is the problem with Ticket to Paradise. She’s not enough of a bitch.


Louis Virtel Right. Please.


Ira Madison III It’s sort of like he’s the asshole and they sort of hate each other. But I also feel like that movie never really commits to the idea that these two hate each other.


Louis Virtel Right. There was so much potential there for them to be, like, really vicious with one another. But the movie was very neither here nor there. Like, I don’t remember almost a thing about it.


Ira Madison III But it was successful. And I feel like this idea now that we’re going to be getting because I’ve seen this from like the deadline articles for the Body Swap comedy is that studios are looking for two handers now.


Louis Virtel Yes. Which I respect that.


Ira Madison III They’re looking for like two stars. I love that era of cinema. Like we just brought up Punchline. Right? Like, give us two stars. Put them in a movie together. That can be really fun. But yeah, a body swap, unless it’s a mom and a daughter like Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Curtis, iconic remake of Freaky Friday.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III You need something that’s going to be like a little different. And I guess like Julia Roberts could play a bitch on this. Jennifer Aniston could be like, sweet, like the good girl.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III As she was in The Good Girl.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. I remember


Ira Madison III Mike White, but there’s really not that much of a difference between, like, it’s just two white women.


Louis Virtel Right. Which that’s my own screenplay in the door, Two White Women. So you can’t have that. So Stand Back.


Ira Madison III Is the easiest sequel potential for you in those movies. By the way, it’s three white women.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Four white women. White women. Four white women in a funeral.


Louis Virtel Well, that sounds like a great time. But I am looking forward to like a Jennifer Aniston cinematic renaissance. I think she has fun when she does a movie, even when she was in that like Adam Sandler murder mystery boat thing, I thought she was fun in that


Ira Madison III I love a Murder Mystery. And I saw that they’re making Murder Mystery Two. And now I’m like, do I need to watch Murder Mystery one? Would I enjoy it?


Louis Virtel I think it has its moments. I mean, like, she is so winning and also just that kind of star where you know exactly what you’re going to get. Even if she was in, like, a hard drama, there’s something about Jennifer Aniston that’s so dependable. She’s so like in her own skin. Just that thing that it’s a pleasure. I was never a Friends stan, so I can never kind of claim her as somebody I’m, you know, like a number one fan of. But I do like the fact that she was almost a Saturday Night Live cast member and turned it down for Friends like. That kind of tells you all you need to know. You know, she’s game for whatever whiz bang.


Ira Madison III I love that. Honestly, I love her in We’re the Millers, too. I thought she was fucking great. That movie deserves more. I’m always going to mention how much I found that movie hysterical. One thing I do find funny about this now is you think of Friends era, right? Is huge and popular as that era was. And she was like one of the highest fucking paid people on TV. Right?


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III You know, in the nineties, Julia Roberts would never do a movie with Jennifer Aniston.


Louis Virtel Oh, absolutely not.


Ira Madison III A TV star?


Louis Virtel Please. She was she would gag. She would just she would simply spit. Now, it does remind me of which there’s the I think there was a resentment in the nineties to how popular TV stars were getting. Do you remember when Julianna margulies was on our show and she was talking about how she did a movie with Glenn Close in Paradise Road and Cate Blanchett in that movie, and everybody recognized her when they were filming and not Glenn Close.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel I mean, something is wicked about that, something you make out of.


Ira Madison III But Jennifer Aniston is also one of those interesting people in that in her marriage to Brad Pitt, she then was elevated to the A-list circle without necessarily being A- list for roles.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III Like people would make drags about her, like still being like a TV actress when she would do movies. But like, she, for all intents and purposes, became A-list when she was with Brad Pitt.


Louis Virtel That happens sometimes again, but I unfortunately have already used my allotted Madonna reference this episode. But when she married Sean Penn, that is the moment when, like the superstardom thing occurred, like she had a number one hit before that. But there’s something about like a marriage that cements, namely a female star in people’s minds. I think that’s even true of Angelina Jolie, who had, you know, the Tomb Raider movies before she was with Brad Pitt and had an Oscar nominee. But then this is what like took her to the place of unavoidable Liz Taylor type star.


Ira Madison III Mm Hmm. Yeah. I mean, we talked about that before. Like the tabloids really push like, people. I mean, I don’t think there’s any as as messy as the whole Dunkin Donuts pandemic straws with Ben Affleck era of Ana de Armas as life was. I don’t think she’s nominated for Blonde, and we’re even talking about that much if that relationship hadn’t happened.


Louis Virtel Right. No, I think that’s true.


Ira Madison III Because now people know who she is.


Louis Virtel Right. She was obviously a knives out and she was great in the James Bond movie. But no, the Ben Affleck moment now cements her as somebody you just have to think about anyway. Has nothing to do necessarily with what movie she’s in. So that adds a certain gravitas to her as a person. Almost. Unfortunately, I would say.


Speaker 2 She was Selina Kyle working for Christopher Walken in Knives Out, okay with her little sweaters and, you know, being meek and the Ben Affleck relationship is what shoved try to the window and let the cat start licking her face.


Louis Virtel What kind of poem was that? Oh, my God.


Ira Madison III Do you think Batman returns as an anolgy.


Louis Virtel Yes. No, I was. I was envisioning it. Yes, I heard you. Ira, what’s your Keep It?


Ira Madison III My Keep It goes to the conversation surrounding Sam Smith and their body.


Louis Virtel Oh, and the outfits. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yes. So in the Not Here to Make Friends video, Sam Smith is wearing this corseted outfit. And of course, there’s been a lot of hate from the conservatives and the riot, you know like who are like homophobic, fat phobic. We’re not talking about that shit because they’re obviously wrong. Like, they’re obviously right. Who cares? Evil, disgusting. People are like, they’re not even part of the conversation.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III I’m talking about the defense of Sam Smith, which has now mounted into, well, when Harry Styles wears all these things, you know, everyone’s gagging for it. Or this muscle guy could be wearing this corset and you’d all love it. But Sam Smith doesn’t get that same fervor because they have a fat body. And my argument to that is, one, shut up because one stop comparing every queer person and what they dress like and what they wear and what their body looks like to fucking Harry Styles. I think it’s lazy. I’m tired of Harry Styles being in the conversation. And also we drag Harry Styles all the time.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III He’s drag for what he wears all the time, like up and down the timeline. There was a thread of someone with Sam compared to this other model who was wearing this black corset at a move glare show. People were dragging that model online to like it’s it’s being obtuse and ignoring recent history. And it also ignores the fact that all the images that you show in comparison with what Sam Smith is wearing in the video since Smith is wearing pasties, opera gloves, this Gloria Swanson turban. Okay. It’s it’s it looks a mess. Even the skinny, muscly dancers behind Sam Smith Look a mess. Everyone looks a mess in the video.


Louis Virtel It’s giving take off one thing before you leave the house. Yes


Ira Madison III Yes. Okay. Listen to the Nazi Coco Chanel. Okay. And I think that.


Louis Virtel The Nazi.


Ira Madison III Listen, I only love two, her and Eva.


Louis Virtel That’s right. Sonja Henie, figure skater. She had it going on, too.


Ira Madison III And that is the point. Sometimes you just call it bad outfit. A bad outfit. You know, and there’s some people online who like to jump in with their. Oh, I love a messy, queer punk look. I’m like, Is that what this is? Or are you just being contrary?


Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that intentional there? Or is it just. Yeah, a little slipshod.


Ira Madison III And if you do, you think you’re messy, queer? Or do you just shop at Big bad press?


Louis Virtel Also, by the way, are we done with the word messy yet? Uff. Kill me. It doesn’t mean anything. It just means what? Like something is an utterly pristine at all times. I hate people referring to themselves as messy gays. What does that mean? You tweet too much? Which, by the way, is also intentional, too. Like you’re obsessed with people talking about you or inserting yourself in a conversation. It’s not messy. It’s intentional. So Star.


Ira Madison III Gays tweet too damn much. Let me tell you something. And like I reel myself back and sometimes I have A.D.D. and that’s why I tweet so much sometimes. And I usually do it when I’m bored. Usually do it when I’m bored. You haven’t worked for me for five plus years and not know that. One thing I’ll say about a person who tweets so much is that the one time it really annoys me and this feels like another keep. It sure is. When someone tweet something that’s so funny, right? And you actually want to find the tweet again when you go to like their their tweets to their timeline to try to find it, they always end up being a person who tweets too much. So you’re scrolling through like.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III You’re scrolling through like 500 tweets and retweets and everything before you get to the one tweet that was from like yesterday.


Louis Virtel Right? I mean, here’s what I’ll say this about Twitter in general, and I’m sorry to do this like years into this podcast, this like super elementary conversation, when you tweet, you are saying it’s my turn. So when you’re tweeting, you’re you’re asking attention. There’s a whole bunch of people talking and it’s your turn again. Can you just make it good and not just lowercase babbling, can it, or talking about yourself in a way that’s adding nothing to a quote unquote conversation like it’s a like a lunch table? Speak up when you have something to contribute.


Ira Madison III You know, we played Survivor once at our lunch table.


Louis Virtel Me too. I won. Can you believe it? I didn’t think I had it in me.


Ira Madison III I think I got second place or I won. I cannot remember the end result. I do remember that we played it every day and the first few days were dark, because the people we voted out of, I was like, Maybe this is bullying.


Louis Virtel You know, Ira, I was about to say the same fucking thing. I remember who got like third to last place. Second the last place, first or last place, and they just weren’t as close as the rest of us, it is bullying. It was organized bullying.


Ira Madison III Or you were mad at some of that voice was like, we’re all voting for this person. And then I also remember what always happens invariably with these sort of things. It’s like once we got to the end, like everyone was kind of sick of playing.


Louis Virtel Right. And also there’s no point at the end like, Oh, you won this thing where we’re all just sitting here.


Ira Madison III Yeah, no you won it bullying. You want it blowing.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Enjoy your crown of thorns, asshole.


Ira Madison III By the way, when I try and think about how like MJ is now and everyone thinks that they’re a real housewife, etc., I was like, when we were younger, everyone thought that they were playing a reality competition show.


Louis Virtel Right. Which is the way it should have been. We’ve, you know, strayed from God.


Ira Madison III Yeah. We should be snuffing people’s torches out, not throwing drinks in their faces.


Louis Virtel Oh, God. Your lips to God’s ears. I miss it so much. Not that we have lost Survivor in any way, shape or form, but.


Ira Madison III I know. But you know, sometimes. What’s that like? Ultimate Girls Trip, that’s what the Traitors kind of is, I guess. But I kind of wish Ultimate Girls Trip was on Survivor. I want the Housewives voting each other out.


Louis Virtel Oh, I mean, that’s coming soon. I think you’ve wished it into existence. I think some of these franchises should morph into that.


Ira Madison III Yeah. All right. Well, that’s our show this week.


Louis Virtel Andrea Riseborough, we’re with you. I hope you’re feeling seen.


Ira Madison III Andrea Riseborough. I’ll dap you if I pass you on the street. But that’s about it. Thank you to Xhosha Roquemore for joining us, and we will see you next week. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. And our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third. That’s me. And Louis Virtel. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Matt deGroot, Nar Melkonian and Delon Villanueva for production support every week. And as always, Keep It is filmed in front of a live studio audience.