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TRANSCRIPT

Erin Ryan: It’s Thursday, June 4th. I’m Erin Ryan, in for Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, reminiscing on how Bari Weiss’s infamously panned New York Times column, We’re All Fascists Now, might actually have made some salient points. [music break] Today, Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin goes before Congress and gets apoplectic when a congressman asks if he’s racist. Calm down Markwayne, no need to get emotional. And some House Republicans are finally brave enough to stand up to President Donald Trump’s war in Iran. But let’s start with drama and departures in the media world. CBS News continues to devolve into chaos under the leadership of Bari Weiss. Since Weiss took over in the fall, there have been a series of brutal and seemingly arbitrary cuts that look suspiciously like catering to the president. In her latest move, picking magazine writer Nick Bilton, who has no TV news experience, to run 60 Minutes was a bridge too far for many who remained. And so this week, CBS News has once again found itself where no real journalist wants to be, showbiz gossip columns. Here to talk about what happens when you hand over control of a legacy TV news department to neo-reactionary dorks with no proper experience, is Jeremy Barr, media and power reporter for The Guardian U.S. Jeremy and I spoke on Wednesday afternoon. Jeremy, welcome to What a Day. 

Jeremy Barr: Thanks for having me, appreciate it. 

Erin Ryan: On Tuesday, veteran 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley was fired following a heated back-and-forth with the show’s new EP at a staff meeting. So what happened at that meeting on Monday? 

Jeremy Barr: Yeah, so it was supposed to be the first chance for Nick Bilton, who was hired as EP last Thursday, to meet the whole staff. And it basically very quickly became a confrontation between Scott Pelley and Bilton. Where Pelley kind of unloaded on him and asked him basically to explain all of the firings last Thursday which included Cecilia Vega, Sharyn Alfonsi, Tanya Simon, who is the executive producer. Executive editor and basically sort of you know grilled him on it as if he was grilling an interview subject that didn’t really want to answer the questions. So it was supposed to be a more casual get to know you and Pelley obviously saw it as a chance to ask all of his toughest questions honed by decades of experience in journalism. At one point an executive asked, basically told him that he was being rude and asked him sort of to stop. And Pelley responded that the way that CBS News had treated Tanya Simon was really the rude thing. So the meeting ended pretty quickly. And um I mean, I think it was a pretty shocking experience for everybody who was there, but I had heard that there were many shows of support for Pelley and that as it was ending, there was a round of applause. And it sounds a bit like kind of like a West Wing moment. Um. It was maybe like a west wing television news moment, but Pelley was obviously channeling a lot of the concerns people had about the way that they handled 60 Minutes and the idea of getting rid of the executive producer and getting rid of two of the seven correspondents. Um. You know, it was just a huge change for the show, just a massive amount of turnover and you know kind of one of these situations where it’s like, you know, if it’s not broke, why fix it? The show is super successful. You know, everybody writes every day about how viewers are fleeing television, but still, 9.1 million people watched the show last season. 

Erin Ryan: Can you kind of give us a little bit of background of what led to the meeting, like what was going on at CBS News before that? 

Jeremy Barr: I mean things have been destabilized for maybe a year and a half now. I mean in October 2024 is when Trump sued the network and he sued the network a few months after they had agreed to sell it to Skydance, which is owned by David Ellison. Essentially, people started resigning in the spring of 2025 uh because they were worried that CBS was going to settle the Trump lawsuit. They ultimately did settle it that summer and then the FCC you know, which is run by Brendan Carr, obviously a big Trump champion approved the merger. Uh, and then in October, Barri Weiss is appointed editor-in-chief after Paramount’s Skydance buys The Free Press, her site, for a reported $150 million. And so the six, seven months of Bari Weiss’ tenure have been, I guess, you know, rocky, uh, controversial. Uh, I mean, there have certainly been some good moments. Everybody has a learning curve here, but there’s just been an incredible amount of attention on her and her stewardship of the network. Um. And you know there have been other changes at CBS News. She you know put Tony Dokoupil in charge of the evening news show, but the 60 Minutes overhaul was really the first massive thing that she did, um that really you know that I think raised the bar and raised uh the stakes for her tenure. Because the show is seen as such like an institution in American broadcasting. 

Erin Ryan: Right, right like as you mentioned, it’s a ratings juggernaut for the network. Like those are some Love Island USA numbers that it puts up. 

Jeremy Barr: Right. Yeah.

Erin Ryan: Every Sunday. Um, but you know, and you mentioned Bari Weiss’s background is sort of, she was like an opinion columnist who ran an opinion based sub stack. Um, and she doesn’t have any TV experience, you know? Which is, which is one of the complaints that, you know, I’ve read about in your, in your pieces and most media reporters that are covering this talk about that. So, is Bari Weiss doing what she was brought in to do, or does she just suck at running a TV network? 

Jeremy Barr: I mean, I’ve never run a television network, so I don’t really, it’s hard for me to say how hard it is, or not hard it, is. From what I understand, television is incredibly hard to produce, it’s incredibly hard to get the dynamics right, it’s incredibly hard to make news and to make an impact, to get people to watch, and you have to have everything perfect and you to have the right charisma and the right you jknow experience and the resources to pay for it. And 60 Minutes for a long time kind of existed a little bit separate from CBS News. It was across the street. Um. They kind of had a lot of uh room to to operate separately a bit. They were sort of protected by their success, I think. And I think that was one of the concerns when Bari Weiss was appointed is that um she might start to sort of, I guess people would say, people who are critical of her would say meddle. I think you know the first tangible uh sign of that was this whole controversy last December, where Sharyn Alfonsi, a veteran correspondent, accused her of shelving her story about the CECOT prison for political purposes. And so I guess her first um intervention was viewed very negatively and became this big public controversy. I remember it happened, I was I was in Missouri uh for Christmas break and hoping the news would quiet down. And it normally does quiet down before Christmas, But then it just kind of exploded all of a sudden. And things have been kind of exploding since then, but then the biggest of the explosions was obviously last Thursday. And then with the firing of Scott Pelley um on Tuesday night, uh you know where we were able to see the actual letter that went to Scott Pelley telling him he was fired for cause and telling him basically that he was being a jerk uh and why he was being fired. I mean, I’ve never seen that before, covering media, to actually see the full letter. And, you know, people have pointed out that the language in it was a bit legalistic and using terms like cause and like trying to lay out a case for why he was fired. Um. I don’t know what happens here in terms of whether there’s legal action, but uh even though we kind of expected that Pelley would probably not stick around, I mean, the sources I talked to um who were aware of what happened in the meeting basically saw the meeting as a kind of resignation of sorts or a kind of dare for them to fire him um because he was obviously pushing back against management in a way that’s not normally accepted in industry uh or any industry. 

Erin Ryan: I mean, another question I had was like, you know, if Pelley meant to leave in the first place, you know, Pelley was eventually realizing that it was he was going to have to leave. Um. It seems like his departure was exactly he couldn’t have scripted it better for himself. Like he looks like the hero. He’s getting the applause. He is, you know, he’s he’s emerging as this like you know, je suis Scott Pelley type figure in in like the popular imagination. My question about Bari Weiss sucking about like running a network was not meant to be glib. I just I wonder if what the Ellisons wanted to do was destroy CBS News, if they could have found somebody who knew how to destroy it in a way that also didn’t embarrass them. 

Jeremy Barr: I think that the ultimate long game is the thing that no one quite knows for sure. And you can kind of like piece together everything. I mean, I worked at the Washington Post for five years. People had a lot of questions about what the ultimate goal was. Or was Jeff Bezos trying to weaken the Post to help Trump? Was he trying to, you know, was he worrying about his businesses? Kind of the machinations of media billionaires and what their long game is, is very hard to truly understand. I think we have to generally presume that you’re not trying to tank a business you’ve acquired for a lot of money. I mean, I think I’m not like, you know, a business school graduate, but like generally speaking, destroying the value of an asset, I think is supposed to be bad. 

Erin Ryan: Yeah. 

Jeremy Barr: So.

Erin Ryan: You you’re basically a business school graduate. [laugh]

Jeremy Barr: The Post is worth less, you know, than right now, than what it was before Bezos kind of shifted everything to the right on the opinion side. And obviously CBS News uh is a bit distressed in that regard as well. Um. But I mean, in terms of whether he’s doing it to appease Trump, to make Trump happy, I think what we can go off of is these, you know, these conversations between Ellison and his father, Larry Ellison, with White House officials about changes they might make at CNN. So that’s the next step, obviously, is whether the Trump administration approves the merger of Paramount and Warner Brothers Discovery, which would give David Ellison control of CNN. And then the question from there was whether Bari Weiss would be brought in to lead CNN in some capacity. And they have kind of not addressed that at all. But um you know I think Pelley’s argument and the argument of other correspondents who’ve been fired is that there was a deliberate attempt to soften coverage of the administration um and to kind of weaken the show uh in a way that would help Trump. I mean, Pelley said in a statement yesterday that you know there were efforts to insert kind of political bias into his stories. We don’t really have more details about that yet, but um there’s been some pretty big accusations made about political bias. I think that you know these are these are very experienced, serious correspondents that don’t normally speak out unless they feel strongly about something. I mean, Sharyn Alfonsi, Cecilia Vega, Scott Pelley, they’re not people that are popping off on a regular basis on Twitter. These are people that are super experienced. You know, I’ve I’ve met Scott Pelley last December after an event and he shook my hand and said hi, but he was not gonna chat about CBS News and gossip about Bari Weiss. That’s kind of not his game. So for him to to have this big blow up and then to release this statement and then another statement on Wednesday um is a big deal. 

Erin Ryan: Yeah, he is, he’s pretty mad. Um. And as you mentioned, the Ellisons are now trying to own CNN. Um. And how does this consolidation, what is it, how does it bode for the future of establishment journalism?

Jeremy Barr: I mean, I think media has been consolidating for a long time. I mean I’ve covered media since 2014, which feels like 30 years, but I guess is 12 years, but like I’ve been covering layoffs and buyouts and contractions and mergers and everything is getting smaller, certainly. You know, the obvious result will be less people employed by CBS and CNN just by nature of a merger but kind of what it means for CNN long-term is we’re just kind of speculating on that at this point. But um because the first seven or so months, eight months of Bari Weiss’s tenure at CBS have been tricky, I would say um I think there’s obviously a concern that some of those issues will transfer to CNN. The ratings are not particularly good right now, but the brand is still good. And it’s in like airports in Hong Kong and everybody knows it. So I think whenever there is an American media brand that is at risk of spoilage, which that’s not the right word for it, but damage, I don’t know, this happened with the Post as well. I mean, people get very, very focused on it and are very concerned about it. And then you get lots of articles and lots of interest about it. 

Erin Ryan: Mm hm. And you have a Christmas vacation that is interrupted over and over and over again and will be forever. 

Jeremy Barr: Right. I think that’s the life of a media reporter in the Trump administration. 

Erin Ryan: All right, Jeremy, thank you so much for joining me. 

Jeremy Barr: Yup. Thank you for having me, appreciate it. 

Erin Ryan: That was my conversation with Jeremy Barr, media and power reporter for The Guardian US. We’ll link to his work in the show notes. Remember, the revolution will not be televised, but it will be secretly recorded and leaked to media reporters. If you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Erin Ryan: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines.

[clip of unnamed Congressperson] On this vote, the yeas are 215 and the nays are 208. The concurrent resolution is adopted. [sound of cheers]

Erin Ryan: Listen to those cheers, that’s the liveliest I’ve seen Congress since the last time their per diem was increased. The House approved a War Powers Resolution for the first time on Wednesday that would halt the U.S. Military action against Iran. A handful of Republicans defied President Trump and joined with Democrats to end the three-month-long conflict that has reordered politics at home and abroad. The resolution next goes to the Senate, but Trump would likely reject any measure from Congress to limit his Commander-in-Chief authority. Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin was back on Capitol Hill Wednesday to testify in front of the House Committee on Homeland Security. Mullin discussed some of the latest security concerns, including those at the upcoming World Cup games across the U.S. 

[clip of Markwayne Mullin] I feel very comfortable where we’re at, and we feel like we have a zero-fail mission, but it’s going to be complicated. We have seven, five to seven million visitors coming in. We have some very complicated countries that are going to be playing each other, that have a tremendous amount of dislike against each other. 

Erin Ryan: Oh, it’s Markwayne Mullin, the soccer knower. Mullin said DHS is ready to help protect security at the games, but still has, quote, “a lot of work to do” ahead of the first U.S. based game in Los Angeles on June 12th. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] We are restoring law and order to America. Now we’re taking our next big step to defend public safety in America. At my direction, the Department of Justice is beginning what we’re calling the Model Cities Initiative to slash violent crime in major metropolitan areas all across our country. 

Erin Ryan: In a video message to the American people Wednesday, President Trump announced a new $300 million initiative in an obvious effort to distract from all the chaos he’s causing abroad. According to the DOJ, up to four cities will be chosen to quote, “receive awards supporting the implementation of comprehensive and innovative strategies to reduce crime, restore law and order and enhance public safety. Oh, we wanna we wanna reduce crime and enhance public safety? What a great idea. Why didn’t anybody think about that in any of these cities? Qualifying cities can apply to take part in the program within the next 90 days. On today’s segment of questions I really don’t want answered, but someone answered them anyway, we have just how rich is Elon Musk? Well, the Wall Street Journal crunched the numbers and found that on average, Musk has made $3.6 million every hour for 31 years. That equates to $59,492 per minute. That’s a teacher’s salary. $85.7 million per day. $602 million per week, $2.6 billion per month, and $31.3 billion per year. And yet somehow he’s still able to find time for racist and misogynistic posts on Twitter. And that’s the news. [music break] 

[AD BREAK]

Erin Ryan: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, brush up on your Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles lore, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading and not just comments correcting me when I confused the supervillain Shredder with Master Splinter on yesterday’s show, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Erin Ryan and cowabunga, dude! [music break]

Jane Coaston: What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Caitlin Plummer, Emily Fohr, Erica Morrison, and Adriene Hill. Our team includes Hayley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Case, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]