That's So Gay | Crooked Media
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March 02, 2023
Dare We Say
That's So Gay

In This Episode

These gays, they’re trying to murder me! Josie, Alycia and Yasmine get a little fruity this week, talking about their queer journeys, LGBTQ+ representation in Hollywood, and fighting for the gay agenda in a world that loves to hate the alphabet people. Plus, a few of their friends chime in to answer some crucial questions, like: what straight celebrities — besides Natasha Lyonne — should be gay?

Show Notes

High Wycombe woman with cancer chooses party over funeral (BBC)
Dwyane Wade’s trans daughter Zaya granted legal name, gender change (Page Six)
Britney Spears – Break The Ice (Official HD Video) (YouTube)
WE’RE ABOUT TO GET A TEEN ROMCOM STARRING A BLACK TRANS GIRL (MIC)

 

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

 

[AD BREAK] [music break]

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well. Good morning. Hi. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hi. 

 

Josie Totah: Hi. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Hi. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: One, two, three. 

 

[spoken together] Hi. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, gosh. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Oh, okay. Um. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well, welcome back. Welcome back to the show. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I’m Yasmine. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m Alycia. 

 

Josie Totah: Josie. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh. 

 

Josie Totah: Is me. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: It felt like the Miss Universe calls. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, It’s like– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yasmine! Lebanon! 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Alycia! Dominican Republic! 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah! 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Now you go.

 

Josie Totah: I’m from Palestine and Lebanon. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: You’re whispering that? 

 

Josie Totah: In case I– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You made top three.

 

Josie Totah: –this is a controversial room, then I’m Italian. [laughter]

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, no, that’s nothing to be um controversial with being Palestinian. And that’s that. Um. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Free Palestine. Go.

 

Yasmine Hamady: Exactly. So I read something this week. So on the BBC there is this woman. She was 76 years old. She’s from the UK and she unfortunately has terminal cancer. And instead of um planning her funeral, she planned a full themed party with all of her friends. And the theme was 1940s, like World War Two. Like planes. Everyone dressed like they were coming back from combat. Um. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But she said, I’ve never been to a good funeral. They’re miserable things. So I decided I want to celebrate my life. How incredible is that? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think that’s so beautiful. 

 

Josie Totah: That’s amazing. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I don’t know about the 1940s theme, but like– 

 

Josie Totah: I’m a little concerned about World War Two and why she– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well– 

 

Josie Totah: –wants to celebrate World War Two. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, it wasn’t exactly World War Two, but, like, these were the photos. 

 

Josie Totah: Can you describe what we’re looking at? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: So the photos are a bunch of them in like pilot gear in front of planes. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Like, very much like the, you know, the U.S. woman that’s like, come to the Army. You know that one. Um. That was the theme. 

 

Josie Totah: [indistinct] 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well, you know what? Maybe those were her happy times and good for her–

 

Yasmine Hamady: And do you know what? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –for celebrating them. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: These were the photos. [pause] [laughter] And that’s Alycia’s face. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. [?]. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But any, what are your thoughts on people, I kind of like that because if you know you’re gonna die, celebrate, have a party instead of a funeral. What are your thoughts on that? 

 

Josie Totah: My like great aunt had fried chicken at her funeral and it was iconic. And everyone wore the glasses that she wore, were these big like gaudy– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Ah! 

 

Josie Totah: –glasses– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: In honor of her. Um. I’m pretty sure it was KFC because she–

 

Yasmine Hamady: You’re lying. 

 

Josie Totah: –loved KFC and I thought that was iconic. So I support it. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I support it. I say it all the time. When I pass, you guys better be twerking and eating like platanos and stuff and celebrating life. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, good thing that’s not going to happen anytime soon. Yeah, let’s switch the topic. [banter]. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [?] switch the topic.

 

Josie Totah: I’m no longer a licensed driver as of yesterday morning. And Yasmine forgot her keys in Palo Alto. So Alycia–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I got into a really bad car accident this weekend. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. So Alycia had to drive us to work today. And we were all scared for our lives. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: First of all– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ah. Be nice. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: You were great. I just feel like usually Josie and I, we we are the parents and like Alycia. Well, Alycia is the– 

 

Josie Totah: I was silent today, I but– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Drive, please. [laugther] We live, drive please. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay well– 

 

Josie Totah: I I–

 

Yasmine Hamady: You were you were in the wrong for– 

 

Josie Totah: You were in the wrong. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –cause you were in the middle of the street. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [?] in the wrong. 

 

Josie Totah: You were in the middle of the street. And you weren’t gonna move–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was waiting. That car was going to hit me. 

 

Josie Totah: Baby. The red was turning light right the light was– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Change topics. 

 

Josie Totah: –turning red. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: So anyways, we all left our keys at home. Or our license are our license are expired. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Or I have no front bumper. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Or there’s no front bumper.

 

Josie Totah: I just want to clarify. I didn’t get my license taken away by a police officer and or under the penalty of a DUI. I got my license uh not even revoked. It just ran out two years ago. So–

 

Yasmine Hamady: And then and then. And then the police officer who stopped you last time was like, I just genuinely can’t stand you, so I’m gonna give you three more months to figure that out. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. Well I went into the DMV and I had to take a test, and um the woman was so convinced that I was going to fail the written test that she gave me a temporary license for three months. So, anyway, my three months have expired, and I have to learn again, like I’m 16 again and I have to go in there. It’s kind of chic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It’s camp to get your license revoked. I don’t know about that. 

 

Josie Totah: I mean I still have it. You know why? Because I at the airport yesterday, they were like, your license is expired, you can’t fly. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And then how did you get in? How did you get into the plane? 

 

Josie Totah: I had my passport. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh [?] smart. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Shit, see I that’s the thing I have clear. So all I have to do is just show– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The eye thing. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –my eyes, the eye thing. 

 

Josie Totah: Wait, you don’t have to give your I.D.. 

 

[spoken by Alycia and Yasmine] No. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Clear is one of the biggest blessings from God. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Clear is– 

 

Josie Totah: How does Clear do eyes? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: This has now become an ad for Clear. You literally just stand in front of it and it’s the retina thing– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s like zzz zzz zzz zz zzz.

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You don’t need ID, you don’t need shit. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And you literally just– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Unless you are– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, actually– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: That’s funny because– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Unless you’re like a person of color. Because sometimes they be extra. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well I got, I got stopped– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Because I said I was Arab. And then it randomly said it just popped out and it said um random check–

 

Josie Totah: You said you were Arab to the machine? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: To the lady. I was like being an Arab, blah, blah. And within–

 

Josie Totah: What how far into this TSA conversation did you get to saying, being an Arab and talking about the complexities– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I feel like there’s three– 

 

Josie Totah: –of your identiy. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –things that I talk about within myself. It’s I’m bisexual, I’m an Arab, and I have a fat ass. 

 

Josie Totah: But, you just said– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Those are three– 

 

Josie Totah: –hi, I’m an Arab? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No, we were just talking about something because she was talking about like I had the Lebanon flag um necklace on. I don’t have that on right now, but I had the Lebanon flag and she was like, what country is that? And I was like, Oh, it’s Lebanon, blah, blah. And she’s like, oh, no way where is that? I was like, oh, it’s in the it’s in the Middle East blah blah blah. And then it– 

 

Josie Totah: [indistinct] 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –literally came up and it said um uh, requires authentic identification. 

 

Josie Totah: She like pressed the button like, terrorist. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Terrorist, literally she’s like not another plane crash. And then after that, I had to give my I.D., I had to put my fingerprints in, and then I had to answer a couple questions. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But it was just weird. But anyways, you look gay and you look bisexual. Can I say that? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You can say that. I’m told that once a week. So thank you. I appreciate it. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I feel like that’s very un theme for today’s topic actually, because– 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Today we are talking about all things– 

 

[spoken together] Queer. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: One, two, three. 

 

[spoken together] Queer. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: We’re talking about things queer. And here we go. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Clear and queer rhyme. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: We’ve been wanting to have this conversation for a while. 

 

Josie Totah: We have been. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And– 

 

Josie Totah: And not only because as time has gone on, every single one of our friends has come out as something or like are we turning everyone some gay except for Alycia, um but everyone else has, you know, publicly told us at dinner table that they are who they are. And um yeah, we’re so proud of them. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. I feel like, believe it or not, it’s not a trend. Believe it or not, being queer is not a trend. And I feel like so often with like the don’t say gay bills and the anti-trans laws that are happening throughout the country, I feel like you really have to step into your authentication. Um. Authentication? Huh. 

 

Josie Totah: Authentic self? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Huh? Yeah. It’s just I feel like if you’re not going to live and be honest with yourself, then what’s the point of living? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Um. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: But I also. I also think that you know, like so many other things that are popular, like Blackness, like certain moments in pop culture. I think people have really started to commodify queerness. And I think that that makes me really uncomfortable because I feel like that hinders progress, you know, for the– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –queer community. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: A hundred percent. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So I think it’s really important to, like, have nuanced conversations. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, I also feel like growing up I never really had or listened to people who I could see myself and talk about queerness and talk about the nuance of it all and like how you don’t need to know all the time. And it’s not black and white that people think as what how people think it is. And I wish I had that growing up. So if we can be that for you then that’s all we really want, so let’s get into it. How’d you know you were queer? 

 

Josie Totah: Uh, well. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well. 

 

Josie Totah: Uh, was it when I was seven years old and I went up to, like, this 80 year old woman at a restaurant and told her that her brows were overdone and she needed to get them waxed? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Amazing. 

 

Josie Totah: Or was it when I was performing in the ensemble cast of Mulan and I kicked my shoe in the audience? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah! [laughing] 

 

Josie Totah: And I was escorted off stage. I also was wearing a skirt. Um. I, the list goes on and on honestly. I feel also like [?] was my role model. And I just feel like, that’s pretty telling. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Um. So I’ve always been a little [rolls tongue] fruity, if you will, um never gay. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Period. 

 

Josie Totah: But– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 

 

Josie Totah: I was always cause I’m trans. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: [gasp] 

 

Josie Totah: So, I mean, ever since I was little, I think, like, I wasn’t, I didn’t ever grow up with queer people. In fact, I think I was homophobic growing up. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Whoa. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah, because I was like, I didn’t want to be associated with being gay because in my town that was really fucking bad if you were gay, like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And where’d you grow up again? 

 

Josie Totah: I grew up in Davis, California. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm. 

 

Josie Totah: And also San Francisco. I didn’t grow up in San Francisco but we always had a home there. We’d go there on the weekends and that’s where I would feel safe. In the Castro is where I was born, my soul, but physically was born in Sacramento, California, with Gavin Newsom. Anyway [laughter] um it was like really bad to be gay where I was from, and so I never wanted to come off as gay even though I was came off as very gay because I would literally sing like um Hairspray songs and I would pretend like the playground was like my stage and I would like slap people and like, pretend to be like, dramatic. And then I’d get detention. Anyway. I’d always be like, I’m breaking up with you and someone’s like, I’m not gay you fag. And then um and then he would like try to hit me. But anyway, so like I always did [laughter] gay shit growing up, but I never wanted to like, be seen as gay. So I didn’t have any gay friends until I met my first queer friend. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 

 

Josie Totah: When I was in fourth grade and I moved to L.A. Jake [?] and little did I know I’d be attracted to this person energetically because they are also queer. And at the time I think they may have identified as bi or gay and I think now they um they’re not that and um anyway, love the kid. And meeting Jacob, I felt like for the first time I had someone that I could just like connect to and not have to like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: You didn’t feel alone. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah, I didn’t have to like, explain anything to and– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

 

Josie Totah: It was just like, even though we, we weren’t talking about our, like, oppression and our deep rooted issues at that age. It was just like it felt camaraderie– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes yes. 

 

Josie Totah: You know it felt– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Community. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Community. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. Exactly. And so I loved that. And then the older that I got and the more that I stepped into myself, the more I felt closer having friendships with queer people and wanted that because I realized one of our good friends Austin Crute, he told me he was like, literally, all your friends are cis, straight, like women, and that’s amazing. But like, you need to have more queer friends. And uh it’s so true because I think when you’re around more people that you can relate to and share experience with, you feel less alone. Like, obviously I love all my cis friends and my straight friends, like they’re iconic, but like there is something special about having that so– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. 

 

Josie Totah: –only recently have I made the effort like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –the past three years and now like some of my best friends in the entire world are gay people. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: [laugh] I sound like a Trump supporter. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Ah. The gays. No I– 

 

Josie Totah: Do you know what I mean? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I promise they’re my friends. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes I do, no well–

 

Josie Totah: Some of my best friends– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –in the entire world are gay people. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Are gay guys and–

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. Also– 

 

Josie Totah: –girls.

 

Yasmine Hamady: –queer people. Because I feel like also it does take time for people to step into their queerness. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Like I know for myself, it took me like, well, first of all, thank you for sharing all of that. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And like, I feel like growing up, there’s so much pressure to not be yourself and to be like to fit the cookie cutter of what, like being straight or cis– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –or what not is. And I feel like that has to do a lot with environment. And how did your family take that? 

 

Josie Totah: Um. My family, I I’m so privileged because I’ve always had the most supportive family and that is something that I struggled with speaking about when I was younger um in the industry because I know how rare that is and I don’t want to discourage the millions of kids who don’t have parents that support them and love them in that same way. But I never doubted my parent’s acceptance of me, and I think that is probably the greatest privilege of my life. And just having um a mom who was like just on the ground a warrior for me and a dad who I just have never questioned the way he sees me. And I’ve never questioned any time I’ve ever had a conversation with him about me and being trans. I don’t even remember coming out to my parents. I don’t even think I did. I can’t even remember telling my dad, Dad, I’m like, I’m trans for the first time. He’s just always known that and always been accepting and like, I’ll never forget the first time. Like he I came home and he was like, I just I love you. I’m proud of you, my baby girl. And I think I was like 13 years old or something. And like, that’s just how I view my dad and I am so grateful for that. But it’s also so disheartening because I know so many people, so many of my close friends don’t have that same support with their parents. And like, I think that it’s just disgusting and disheartening. And I was talking to my mom about this the other day. It’s like I view it as a mental illness. Like um Gabrielle Union and her husband um were speaking at the NAACP Image Awards– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes. I know that whole, for Zaya. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: And he shouted out Zaya Wade, and he said something to the effect of you’re not supposed to, like, prescribe um your child’s story or lead them to where they need to be. You just had to be the facilitator of where they lead you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: And I thought that was so powerful. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: That was such a good speech too. 

 

Josie Totah: And I feel like my parents share those sentiments, but it’s just disgusting and awful that that’s just very unheard of. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s also– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: In this country.

 

Yasmine Hamady: –very rare specifically within Middle Eastern parents as well. May I add. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And I feel like your parents are there’s such a joy and that is a privilege. But also, like you get to have that and you’re allowed to feel that joy– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And feel that. Sure. Yes, it’s a privilege majorly, but also, like, you deserve that. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah:  Thank you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I think it gives people hope. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: As well. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It does. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think you give people hope on a lot of standpoints, but specifically just the love that your family has for you has inspired me. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think it’s made me a different person the way that you guys love each other and the way that you’re able to be honest and present with each other in the way that you are. Um. Yeah, and it’s one of the reasons I call them parents because of–

 

Yasmine Hamady: They’re family. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –how they support you and you deserve that. And honestly like–

 

Josie Totah: They love you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love them. 

 

Josie Totah: They’d love you more if you were queer, but they love you. [laughter]

 

Yasmine Hamady: We– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m working on it. Um. But no, like even. Yeah, like– 

 

Josie Totah: I was going to ask you because you also have Arab parents. My dad is like, barely first generation, like, grew up in a um dresser drawer um as a baby. But so, like. But your dad wasn’t born here, um your mom was. But how is that having parents that are from– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: So– 

 

Josie Totah: –far away? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, I think it’s also well, first and foremost, like, I’m just calling myself queer. Like literally– 

 

Josie Totah: We talked about this other day. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: We talked about this–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –the other day. And I want to get into our conversation about that because, yeah, later in the conversation. But for so long I refused to call myself queer. When they would call me queer, I’d be like, I’m not queer I’m bisexual. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. We we had a few moments. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It there was a few moments where I would get physically uncomfortable and be like, can you stop calling me queer? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Genuinely. And there was such a long time that and I’ll get into my parents in a second. But there was such a long time where I would say, I am bisexual, I’m sexually attracted to women and other non-gender conforming people. But I’m not romantically. I’m only romantically and sexually attracted to men. And that is it. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Obviously doesn’t have to be cis men, but any type of man. And then here I am, fast forward, I’m in a full relationship with another woman. Like, I’m in a, like it’s it’s I’ve never felt this love before. And, you know, it’s great. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You obviously have spoken with us about being in your first relationship with a woman. What has that been like? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Mmmm. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: What’s like new about it? What are you enjoying? 

 

Josie Totah: And you’re not just in a relationship. You’re not just a queer person, but you’re in a queer relationship. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Which I think is really interesting. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s my first one, and it’s crazy. It’s very much. No, being in love with a woman is like being in love with your best friend. It’s like. It’s like this person’s smile literally brightens your day, and I’m excited to, like, wake up in the morning and see her face. And I think Portia de Rossi said this in her autobiography, and by no means am I saying the Portia de Rossi is a reliable source. But like you’ll, you’re like going through the motions with your best friend, and, like, she she’s like my confidant. You know what I mean? Like, you’re forever young together, and joy is always there. And it’s fun because you’re living through this stigma together, and it’s it’s less lonely, um especially when you have that partner. You know, I’ve never felt so safe intimately with someone. And I think obviously it’s because it is her, but also because in queer relationships, I feel like you’re more likely to feel understood with your body. And it’s not like and I feel like we’re so conditioned to think that sex ends when the man finishes. Like, that’s it. That’s all I was ever, like, taught or learned growing up. And now it’s more of like an intimate time of just pleasure rather than the feeling of, okay, so who’s going to come first? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: So then like her and I talked about it, we were on face time and we were just like, well, let’s walk it through together. And I’ve never had someone like take the time and like really look at me and be like, how does this feel? What does that feel like? Oh, you don’t like that? Okay, great. Noted. What do you like here? And I feel like with a man, I’ve tried to have these conversations. I’m not saying that men don’t do that because there are a lot of I believe in not all men. So there are some good men in this world. I will say that, but the majority are quite shite. Um. But it was just such an intimate part that I never knew growing up, but coming out to my parents and like they always knew that I was bi. They always knew that. I mean, like when I used to like, rewatch the Britney Spears break the ice music video over and over and over again when I was like nine years old, like, I think that had to say something. I think that spoke volumes. Baby, break the ice. And it was a cartoon too. 

 

Josie Totah: Was that your queer awakening? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes, it was my queer awakening. So coming out to my parents, like, I remember like I was in Paris this year um and I told my on my mom’s birthday and my sib like, my brother and sister have been so like, they’re just so supportive. And I’ve grown up with queer people my entire life. I can confidently say like my unc my mom’s brother, like all my parents friends were queer. All of their friends are queer growing up, like, I remember like I used to see like gay men kiss all the time when I was, like, six years old. And I remember I asked my dad, like, when I was so young, I was like, why do those two men kiss? And he’s like, because they’re gay. They two, when two men love each other. That’s just as much as your mom and I love each other. And I feel like that’s how it should be. It’s not a big deal. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It shouldn’t. Why are we making this such a big like, ah there’s this whole thing, and, like, I that’s how I wanted to make my coming out. I didn’t want to make it a deal. I’m not going to do a coming out post. I’m not going to post on social media about it. I feel like you see me out, you see me out. If you see me out with my girlfriend, you see me out with my girlfriend. If you saw me a couple like not ten months ago with a guy, you saw me out with a guy. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: None of your business who I’m out with. You know what I mean? And so when I told my mom, my dad in Paris, I was like, listen, like, yeah, I have this person in my life. She’s great. She makes me really happy. And he’s like, are you happy? And I was like, I well I just said, I’m happy. And he’s like, well, that’s all I could ever ask for as a father. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But he said, am I scared for you? Yeah, a little. Because the world is a dangerous place and I have concerns about how people will treat you. And as a father, I want to protect you. And I understand that as a daughter, especially like being Arab, because in the Middle East, like it is very conservative still. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But at the same time, like and this is a privilege to say. I’m going to keep doing me and in the Middle East, like, I want to bring my girlfriend. I want to I want to go– 

 

Josie Totah: And when parents say that it really like boils my blood. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Oh go on. 

 

Josie Totah: Because I’m just like, you’re so concerned for how people will treat your daughter or your son or your child, and that’s your fear instead of the fear of your child never being able to live in their own truth. And be happy– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: There it is. 

 

Josie Totah: — in the skin– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Okay. 

 

Josie Totah: –that they were born into like that should be your fear. Your fear should be the fact that your kid doesn’t want to be here. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I love that. 

 

Josie Totah: On this earth without getting to be who they are. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Josie. 

 

Josie Totah: And so instead of like accepting the notion that they may not be accepted in a society that is fucked up as ours for many reasons, not just because of queerness, but racism and classism, literally every every fucking thing. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Everything. Yes yes yes yup yup. 

 

Josie Totah: Maybe you should just lead with love first. And I think a lot of people don’t do that. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And I think both can exist at the same time of wanting to make sure that I mean that what you said is the most important thing. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. 

 

Josie Totah: I think that should be your first thought. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I agree.

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That that’s my thing. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Completely. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because like I’ve had to explain it with a lot of family members of mine, um because obviously they’re some of my best friends are queer, I have family members who are queer. And I’m like, it’s about life and death. Like, I don’t I’m not going to explain it to you in any other way because that is how high the stakes are. They’re individuals that don’t want to be here, and if you are in the home, going to be oppressing someone or not loving them simply for being who they are, I will not take part in that. And I will let you know that you are in the wrong every single time. Every single time. And that is the least that I can do. That is the bare minimum, because we should be respecting each other’s lives and truths. Um. But yeah, I’ve had to explain it like that to like a lot of family members and friends. I’m like, it’s about life or death and I have no interest in in codifying you or making somebody else truth more palatable because you have an issue with it that’s more of a reflection on your poor character–

 

Yasmine Hamady: A hundred percent. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Then it does with them. So I’m a stay over here. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And you could keep on being a bigot and discriminatory and very problematic. And I’m not going to like for politeness or for kindness at a dinner table, not say anything different. And I just I couldn’t second like what Josie says even more. Like our biggest concern is how do we love this person. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: [indistinct] 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And how do we show up for them? And it’s going to look different for each person right? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Of course. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like y’all’s journeys were, thank you for sharing, were distinctly different on the conversations and the moments that you had with your family. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, I remember and you guys are going to laugh at this. I remember when I was I was going to my dyslexia school because a girl’s got dyslexia and my–

 

Josie Totah: So does she. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No way. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Did you not know that? 

 

Josie Totah: Oh sorry. Was that a secret? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Most people don’t. But I do.

 

Yasmine Hamady: We just outed you. 

 

Josie Totah: Wait did you not want to say that publicly? I’m sorry.

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No I can say it publicly, I don’t care. I just don’t really talk about it. But I do have dyslexia. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Oh, my god. 

 

Josie Totah: How did you not know that she your best friend [indistinct]– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I don’t talk about it. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I didn’t know that my best friend has dyslexia. Hey, but I remember my mom was planning her– 

 

Josie Totah: I don’t. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –pre her old best friend who is a lesbians birthday party with her partner. And I and I didn’t know this person in my life who raised me was a lesbian. And I said to my mom, is she a lesbian? And my mom said, yeah, she is. And I started sobbing. I started sobbing. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yas has to be the moment like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I have to make it about me somehow. But I was like, why? I literally said, why? Because I was– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But I think it was my inner misogyny and inner homophobia both playing at the same time because– 

 

Josie Totah: External.

 

Yasmine Hamady: External. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah I was like–

 

Yasmine Hamady: I I didn’t harm anyone else, but I was– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You just cried at the at the word lesbian. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. And then I, I said to my mom– 

 

Josie Totah: Dead at that. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –but now thinking back because I was okay with gay men. But I wonder and I now like, rea– no, this is something– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No but this is your truth. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I’ve had to work–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m glad. Talk about it. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –through in therapy. Where like, now I’m like, why was I so anti-lesbian at this moment, not anti but like so shocked and appalled. But like and here I am fully having a girlfriend. 

 

Josie Totah: You sound like Trisha. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Like, I just, I sound like Trisha Paytas? [laughter] Do I sound like Trisha Paytas? Or do I sound like that girl on TikTok [spoken really fast] where like, you should be fucking little tattletale rat? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh my god. 

 

Josie Totah: She’s actually homophobic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No, she’s transphobic, homophobic–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Scares me.

 

Yasmine Hamady: –everything. She’s awful. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Why does she have an account? Okay, back on topic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Anyway, so I remember I was crying– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You were homophobic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And I was just like– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [indistinct]. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I was homophobic and I was like. [pause] Oh, my God. And then, like, years later, I was in theater and everyone was gay. And, like, I remember my best friend came out to me and I was like, I’m an ally. I will stand with you. I will never– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ally! 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –cry when someone tells me they’re a lesbian ever again.

 

Josie Totah: I’m sure you made that the [?] this is my impression impression of Yasmine. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah go on. Go on.

 

Josie Totah: Hearing that someone’s gay– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 

 

Josie Totah: –in in middle school theater. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait wait tell her tell her.

 

Yasmine Hamady: High school theater. 

 

Josie Totah: High school theater. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh tell her okay? [banter] Wait.

 

Josie Totah: I’ll be Yasmine, okay. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay, three two one. Action.

 

Josie Totah: Uh. Can we get a dress rehearsal in five guys? Guys dress, dress rehearsal in five. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I was a I was the primary actor but we go on–. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: My best friends are insane. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Um. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I Yasmine– 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah, yeah. What’s going on? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I. I’m gay. 

 

Josie Totah: Mm. Mm. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Mm. What? 

 

Josie Totah: Mm. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: What’s wrong? What’s wrong? 

 

Josie Totah: Hmm. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: What’s going on? 

 

Josie Totah: Mmm. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Why are you making that? 

 

Josie Totah: I’m honored that you told me that– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [whispered] That is something Yasmine would say. 

 

Josie Totah: Because I, I am someone that would be told that, wouldn’t I? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yas would say that. 

 

Josie Totah: And I am grateful that I’m here. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The I. [laughter]

 

Josie Totah: For you. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: The amount of I’s. [laughing]

 

Josie Totah: Should we get to rehearsing? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yay. 

 

Josie Totah: Um. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: We’ll get back to this later. 

 

Josie Totah: I love you. What was your name? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I’m your best friend. 

 

Josie Totah: Tim. Tim. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Tim [?]? 

 

Josie Totah: Tim. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I don’t know a Timothy, but we’ll go with– 

 

Josie Totah: Tim. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Ron. 

 

Josie Totah: Ron? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Ron. 

 

Josie Totah: Love you, Ron. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I don’t know Ron. 

 

Josie Totah: Okay. Let’s go. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: But uh. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That was beautiful guys. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And scene. Incredible acting, may I say. 

 

Josie Totah: Oh was that you? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, that that was me. Well, no actually–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You should think about that as your career. [banter indistinct]

 

Yasmine Hamady: No I was just more– 

 

Josie Totah: –so much less supportive. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I was just like, alright, I’m here for you. Let’s do the damn thing. I love you. 

 

Josie Totah: It was getting better help ad.

 

Yasmine Hamady: It was giving a better help ad. No I’ve like always been very supportive, and I pride myself in that. [music break]. 

 

[AD BREAK]

 

Yasmine Hamady: So growing up, I know like we grew up in like the height of the media and like social media on the Internet. What led you or what led you to feel seen in the media, whether that’s TV shows, YouTube videos and whatnot? 

 

Josie Totah: Well, luck like luck be a lady. Like most of my life, filled with so much juxtaposition. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Ooh. 

 

Josie Totah: My biggest inspirations were also my biggest perpetuations of my own oppression. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: What do you mean by that? 

 

Josie Totah: And [laugh] should we just go to spoken word? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s why I snapped. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: That was crazy.

 

Josie Totah: Um. Because I love comedy. Like grew up being obsessed with comedy. I would go to bed every single night. I slept with my parents until I was 14 years old. Is that a problem I should address in therapy? Maybe, but we’re not going to do it today. And I– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: That’s a Better Help. 

 

Josie Totah: –would literally go to bed every night in between my mom and my dad watching Amy and Seth um on Weekend Update. And just like comedy was so a part of my life. So Martin Lawrence was like my biggest inspiration, The Wayans brothers. Like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Any film that they did, I was obsessed with. So as much as I was learning from things and was loving things like Big Momma’s House, one, two and motherfucking three. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Period. 

 

Josie Totah: And also White Chicks, I was also feeling validated by these things and Mrs. Doubtfire by Robin Williams, because it was the first time I’ve seen like someone go from boy to girl. At the same time, it was it’s some of the most problematic pieces of media– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: In our culture because it perpetuates the idea that trans women are just men in dresses. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 

 

Josie Totah: So I remember watching this one episode of Sweet Life of Zack and Cody. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm. 

 

Josie Totah: When the Sprouse twins dressed up as like a girl or whatever. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Right for the play. 

 

Josie Totah: For it was a fashion show. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Fashion show. 

 

Josie Totah: And I remember I was I asked my mom I was like, can we watch this again? And she was like, girl, why? And it was because I had never seen something like that before in my life. I mean, how crazy is that? I had never seen a boy want to be a girl. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Like I had never heard of that. I hadn’t seen Gigi Gorgeous. I hadn’t seen any of those people who I’m now grateful to, like, know at least peripherally and love and still admire. But like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 

 

Josie Totah: I think that was really interesting growing up because, like everything that taught me, like how to act and how to be funny also was telling me that I was like, ugly and I was just, you know, a man in a woman’s– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –outfit or whatever. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: And I think that is it’s disheartening, but it also is like inspiring at the same time because I was like, I want to be that person. And that can like show people that like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –who we are is not that. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: And it’s like sad too, because some incredible performances like Eddie, Eddie Redmayne.

 

Yasmine Hamady: Eddie Redmayne in um what is it– 

 

Josie Totah: Danish Girl. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 

 

Josie Totah: Um, so amazing, or Jared, Jared Leto and Dallas Buyers Club. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: But then these men these you know, I think they are cis men are now winning awards for these roles that are– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 

 

Josie Totah: –perpetuating– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 

 

Josie Totah: –these ideas. And it’s just furthering the conversation and the stereotype and the myth that these aren’t trans women don’t exist and that the reality of them don’t exist. So as much as those were the things that I watched growing up and was inspired by. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: It was also invigorated me in a negative way as well. But– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: A hundred percent. 

 

Josie Totah: That’s part of the reason why I’m here. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, and I feel, and going going after that, what are some things now that make you feel euphoric in your identity? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Are there representations like that you’re you’re proud of? Is that what you’re saying?

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah are there representations today that you feel euphoric, and inspired by seeing. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Other than yourself because you’re a trailblazer. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes that, yup yup. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: It has to be said. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup yup. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: I mean I look up to so many people like Hunter Schafer, Laverne Cox, Isis King, MJ Rodriguez– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup 

 

Josie Totah: Indya Moore, Janet Mock. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes, yes. 

 

Josie Totah: Like, I mean, the list goes on and on. Like Miss Eva Reign. She just starred in the first ever trans rom com, directed by Billy Porter. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I know who you’re talking about. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. Simone is in it, but yeah, look up her name. 

 

Josie Totah: So, I mean, there are so many people now, which makes me so happy. But I mean, we’re still not seeing– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No. 

 

Josie Totah: The representation– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –that we need to be seeing or the roles are just trans roles specifically about their identity, and it’s about– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 

 

Josie Totah: –associated with trauma and all of that stuff and not necessarily letting trans people play anybody. Like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 

 

Josie Totah: –in my new show coming out on Apple TV very soon. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yay. 

 

Josie Totah: But I. I’m excited and I’m hopeful. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: And sorry I didn’t mean to make that all about me.

 

Yasmine Hamady: No, well, you can. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, we wanted– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I think you should. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –you to. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I feel like, [laugh] I feel like–

 

Josie Totah: Because I wanted to ask you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. What are your representations? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: We’re we’re going to get there in a segment, I want to just like Alycia said, you are a trailblazer. 

 

Josie Totah: Oh gosh. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: You are. No. And I think I can confidently say that. And you should be so proud of the woman that you are today and like as your best friends. We are so fucking proud of you and we love you. 

 

Josie Totah: Thank you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And we’ll stand by you. Anyone who ever comes for anyone in specifically in this community, I’ll fucking have their neck on a platter. But–. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Thank you so much. I love you. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I love you. 

 

Josie Totah: Head on a lamppost. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Head on a lampost. [laugh]

 

Josie Totah: But what about you? What are queer things that you saw growing up that made you be like, I’m queer? [pause]

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, like even today, I feel like I look at, like, TV shows and I see like a really hot man. And I’m like, mm hmm. And then all of a sudden I’ll see a really hot woman and I’m like, Mm hmm. And once again, to truths can exist at the same time. Um.

 

Josie Totah: Like bi panic.

 

Yasmine Hamady: Bi panic. Literally bi panic well I realized I came to my bi panic in the pandemic just like every other bitch on TikTok. 

 

Josie Totah: Bi pandemic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Bi pandemic, we should coin that. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Bi pandemic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Um. And I remember just being like, why is everyone like doing thirst traps on TikTok and why am I finding it hot? Um. I want to do some. 

 

Josie Totah: I do feel like the lesbians came out during the pandemic. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: The lesbians and the bisexuals and the toxic lesbians. 

 

Josie Totah: The mass–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was just going to say. 

 

Josie Totah: The mass lezzos. [banter]

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The messiness that’s happening–

 

Yasmine Hamady: Leztopia. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –on TikTok right now. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It’s so toxic. And can I just say, though, I also feel like um Wizards of Waverly Place was a big one for me– 

 

Josie Totah: Really? Jennifer Stone? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No um.

 

Josie Totah: Selena? 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Selena? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No. Bridgit Mendler when she was the werewolf. And– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh what? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –David Henry. And David Henry at the same time– 

 

Josie Totah: You know they dated? I think they dated in real life. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No way. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Whoa. That’s Disney tea. But, like, just growing up there was that and, like, also cheaper by the dozen. Oh, my God. No. Twilight. Are you kidding? Taylor Lautner and then also Roslyn, like the older sister, like– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: –both of them at the same time. I was like, oh, my God, these people. And I feel like a lot of times, like I’ve had people in my family ask me, you have to pick, you have to choose. And I know bisexuals, we are the most annoying ones in the community. Let’s just say it. We are the most annoying, we’re the most– 

 

Josie Totah: Mmm. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: No we are we’re the most problematic and the most annoying. But there is an erasure aspect to us. And I feel like everyone thinks that you have to pick. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: You have to pick and choose when like queerness– 

 

Josie Totah: Or I’ve heard people be like, oh, he said that he’s bi but really– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: But he’s really– 

 

Josie Totah: –he’s probably just gay. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And that’s a lot with men too. They think if a man is bi that he’s just gay. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: That’s exactly what I just said. [pause] [laughter]

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Well, biphobia is a real thing. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Biphobia is a real thing. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like I’ll never forget one of my favorite episodes of Insecure is when um Issa’s best friend, played by Yvonne Orji. Phenomenal episode, because literally up until three years ago, I had never seen a Black show talk about Biphobia and it exists. I’ve heard the conversations behind closed doors. I have been disgusted by them because it really starts like full on battles. Um. But essentially in the episode Issa’s like, so you love this guy, you’re attracted to this guy, but you have an issue that he’s been with men? 

 

Josie Totah: She’s like, yes. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. And she’s like, yes. 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So I stopped talking to him. 

 

Josie Totah: That’s exactly what it is. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And fun fact. She loses him because of it and she’s broken up about it because he’s like, you didn’t like me because of like my past, which is just disgusting. We should just love people for loving people. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. And even– 

 

Josie Totah: Such a good episode. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Even in my own, such a good episode of Insecure, I think it’s one of my favorite shows of all time. But even in my own experience, um I, I was involved with someone who was bi and I was very grateful that they shared that truth about themselves with me. And um they hadn’t expressed that to other people. And I definitely had someone in my life who I was closer with at the time, have an opinion about it, um and I was really disappointed in them and I like had to hold the people in my life accountable because I was like, I just think that we should create a no tolerance space for anything like that, for biphobia, for the erasure of any type of queerness. And I think people like to sweep it under the rug and it’s not okay. But I did adore that Insecure episode. It was like imprinted on my brain because I think still to this day it it’s not really talked about in Black shows, especially with men, because that’s a whole other conversation that we could get into. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: That’s– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because when a woman is experiencing queerness or like fluidity or whatever– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: That’s–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –it may be, I think unfortunately, just because of people over sexualizing women, men or certain communities may have more of an acceptance, whereas men are completely like, you know. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, that’s that’s exactly what I was going to say. Is specifically in TikTok in the queer community, I felt you can’t fucking win. Like in the public eye because if you’re a woman, try uh uh exploring your sexuality, you’re just dabbling in it, but then you’re going to end up with a man when that’s actually not the case. With men you are if you’re bisexual, you have to either be gay or straight. And then also within the queer comm–

 

Josie Totah: Notice how it all has to do with ending up with a man. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The patriarchy. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: The patriarchy. That is it because it’s all about them constantly. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And also going back to the patriarchy within the queer community, specifically with um women, there’s so much toxic masculinity, there’s so much toxic masculinity within the queer women community– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Internalized misogyny. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s just even like with the hey mamas. And also like, there’s this whole thing about being the baby gay. Like if you’re new, new, newly queer, like, you come out and you’re like, oh, welcome to the group. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Well, there’s so much drama. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Like there’s so–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Also like, please correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like a lot of conversations and environments pander to like, white male gays. Like, like they are now dictating the culture and like, at least from my queer Black friends. They’ve said that they haven’t felt safe in queer spaces. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Oh literally because of white male gays. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Instead of male gaze. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. No, no. I we– 

 

Josie Totah: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –mean g-a-y-s this time. 

 

Josie Totah: We were talking about that the other day when she was like, what’s the difference between saying that– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: You’re queer and then bisexual. 

 

Josie Totah: You’re queer and bisexual. And I was talking about how um like queerness. And this idea of queerness has come about in spite of not all white gays, but the concept of being of so much privilege and having this one part of you that makes you gay versus queerness, which speaks on a larger conversation– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 

 

Josie Totah: –about intersectionality and how things can be different for everybody depending on the variations of your identity, such as race, class, and ethnicity and such. And saying that you’re queer is speaking to a much larger– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Agreed. 

 

Josie Totah: –topic and I feel like ensues more layers. And yeah, there’s the idea of this like white gay who doesn’t identify with the queer community because they think that they’re different or that the queer communities like to quote unquote, and I don’t use this word but they use it, “woke” and that they’re sort of forcing them out or they don’t even want to be a part of it. And I think that it’s a very interesting conversation to have. And I’m not a gay person. I’m not a gay man, so I might not be the best person to have that conversation. But I think it is very it’s one that is very real and one that I think many people of color, many gay people of color feel like they’ve been excluded– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –or harmed and or hurt by these white people who are gay. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: By an infrastructure that is obviously individuals within their community, but still oppressing them because they don’t fit a certain standard or like ideas of ways that things were done in the past, which I find is really interesting, that like within a community, it’s this is why we have to emphasize intersectionality. You know, like– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It’s the most important thing. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: It is the most–

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like any minority community, like. You know. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Um. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was going to say not all skinfolk is kinfolk, but within like queerness. Just because someone is queer doesn’t mean that they can speak identically to your experience. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: A hundred percent. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And just in today like y’alls experiences–

 

Yasmine Hamady: Is vastly different. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –are distinctly different, and I’m learning from each one, and I’m always so grateful each time you share your stories, because I think that there’s power in that. 

 

Josie Totah: Thank you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I think that you empower other people and hopefully feel– 

 

Josie Totah: And obviously very different stories because– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: I don’t think we need to clarify that there is a very distinct difference between your sexuality– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah yeah yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: –and your gender identity. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That that’s yeah.

 

Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 

 

Josie Totah: What like for people listening, if you are unaware. Your sexuality is who you want to go to bed with, and your gender identity is who you go to bed as. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Period. 

 

Josie Totah: There’s a very– 

 

Yasmine Hamady: There it is. 

 

Josie Totah: There’s a very big difference. I did not come up with that. Do not quote me on that. [laugh] Um.

 

Yasmine Hamady: But that was incredible. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: Well, it was not my quote, but that is the distinction. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Don’t get it twisted. 

 

Josie Totah: I think that no matter who you are or what your background is, we can all relate to the same patterns of oppression and experience, even if we might not know exactly what we experience. So there’s beauty and camaraderie and community, and I’m happy that we’re having this conversation. And also we reached out to some of our best friends who are in the queer community, and we have a few questions for them that we want to ask them. So should we see what they say? 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Let’s see what they say. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes! What was your queer awakening? 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 1] There’s a lot of things that like run through my head, but the one thing that really gets me going is Christian Bale as the fucking batman. He’s so hot. He’s so sleek and sexy and [making kiss sounds] hot. 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 2] My first queer awakening, I would say when I was a kid was Kim Possible? And Shego, obviously. And um when I was a little bit older, I think I was 12. It was watching the um Marina and the Diamonds, How to Be a Heartbreaker music video. 

 

[clip of Austin Crute] My first queer awakening was The Little Rascals. I was about five years old, and Alfalfa just, I don’t know, did something for me. Listen, I grew up in Georgia. I grew up in a really conservative space, uh and he just kind of felt like my best friend. And now if we’re talking about more grown Austin. Middle School High school, my queer awakening was Kick-ass. I love superheroes. I love powers, action, and Aaron Johnson was literally he still is so cute, but he was so cute to me. And in the movie he pretends to be gay and I was pretending to be straight. So we both was playing roles. 

 

[clip of unspecifed friend number 3] Okay. I would say in Hannah Montana, the Jesse Miley Jake love triangle. I was definitely a Jesse girl. And if you were a Jake girl, I have nothing to say to you. 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 4] Everyone’s going to say the same fucking shit. Everyone’s going to say Shego or whatever. Like, clearly, obviously. However, mine is miss random girl who broke a candle at the Bath and Body works in Rancho Cucamonga, Victoria Gardens. She changed my life forever. Jaw dropped, eyes open, heart bursting, changed my life. 

 

Josie Totah: What would you say is like the truest queer stereotype? 

 

[clip of Austin Crute] Some accurate queer stereotypes for you. The sibilant s. I feel like queer people just they do. They got it. They got the s on them. I mean, they s’s could scratch glass, the talking inflections, making everything sound like it’s a question. I feel like that’s an accurate queer stereotype and ya’ll be fighting it. If you’re not doing it. They always got a look. They always know what they’re doing esthetically, they always are a little bit more pretty than the average. If you’re talking with your hands a lot, that’s a queer stereotype. Pop culture. Referencing pop culture, digesting pop culture, especially more specifically the divas and the pop girls. Britney Spears, uh Beyoncé, Gaga, Madonna. Um. The list goes on and on. I feel like we have an affinity to pay attention to the process, be inspired by progress, pop culture in that way. And I feel like that’s like an accurate queer stereotype. 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 2] That all lesbians stay best friends with their ex and then end up dating them again. Um. I know for a fact that that’s accurate because I did exactly that. Um. With my current girlfriend. We are still dating. 

 

[clip of unspecifed friend number 3] That like everybody knows everybody. And if you want to see if someone is gay or queer, bi whatever, if you have certain mutuals with them, then you know that they play for the same team as you. 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 4] Queer people love. They love so hard, They’re so creative, so beautiful, so pretty. Horny, very, very horny, um but very expressive. And I love that about us. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Who’s a straight celebrity who honestly, truly should be queer. I know. We’re all thinking it. Natasha Lyonne. Yep.

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 1] Chris fucking Jenner hits all the marks. Momager, hair, wig, mug. And she needs to be part of this community. Can I get a gaymen up in here? 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 2] Taylor Swift, for the why? Listen to the entirety of Evermore and then get back to me. If you have any more questions. And Stanley Tucci, his entire film career. Like it just it only makes sense. And I feel like gay people were owed that. 

 

Austin Crute: Jalen Hurts should be queer because he is so cute and amazing. Aaron Johnson. Aaron Johnson should be queer if he’s not queer already. Harry Styles should be queer because he’s over here queer baiting. Just kidding. [fake laugh] Pedro Pascal. I think that he’s so cute and he’s Daddy. 

 

[clip of unspecifed friend number 3] The Butler and the Nanny from the Parent Trap. Jesse and Martin, they were both gay. Come on? Nancy Meyers, who are we kidding? 

 

[clip of unspecified friend number 4] My mother. Truly hands down. My mother should be queer. Honestly. She had her moment. She had me. So God bless that she’s straight for sometimes. But honestly, at the end of the day, that woman needs to be queer. She needs to find a woman that will love her right. [sigh] And a man just isn’t going to do it. 

 

Josie Totah: Well, thank you guys so much for listening to today’s episode and for bearing with us when we’re being serious. But um [laughter] I had so much fun. I love you Yasmine. I love you, Alycia. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [kiss sound] I love you guys. 

 

Josie Totah: I love you. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m proud of you guys. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: I love you both so much. I mean, like, we’re family. It’s just. It’s as simple as that. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 

 

Josie Totah: And we are proud of all of you guys. And let this be a little [clicks tongue] push to stepping into your truth a little bit more. Even if you’re not gay. Maybe you fucking should be. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Tea. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: So– 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Here’s to the queer agenda. I’m here for it. 

 

Josie Totah: Amazing. Have a good day. 

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Bye. 

 

Josie Totah: See you on Fox News. Bye.

 

Yasmine Hamady: Listen. Listen to me. Right now. I’m underground and I can’t get out. And the only way for me to get out [making nervous breaths] is if you download Dare We Say on iTunes, Stitcher, or Spotify or download on YouTube. I can’t make this shit up you guys. I’m tired. If you don’t fucking download this. [puts on a fake Scottish accent] If you don’t fucking download and give us five fucking stars. Love us, rate us. We love you. See you next week. 

 

Josie Totah: Dare We Say is a Crooked Media production. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: Caroline Reston is our showrunner, producer and Mommy and Ari Schwartz is our producer and show daddy. Fiona Pestana is our associate producer and Sandy Girard is the Almighty executive producer. 

 

Josie Totah: It’s hosted and produced by me, Josie Totah. 

 

Yasmine Hamady: And me, Yasmine Hamady.

 

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And me, Alycia Pascual-Peña. Our engineer and editor is Jordan Cantor. And Brian Vasquez is our theme music composer. Our video producers are Matt DeGroot, Narineh Melkonian and Delon Villanueva and Mia Kellman. 

 

Josie Totah: Lastly, thank you to Jordan Silver, Gabriela Leverette, Jesse McLean, Caroline Heywood, Shaina Hortsmann, Deisi Cruz, Danielle Jensen and Ewa Okulate for marketing the show and making us look so damn good.