In This Episode
This week, Louis is joined by comedian Brendan Scannell to discuss Taylor Swift’s new album, The Life of a Showgirl, as well as The Rock’s A24 debut in The Smashing Machine. Jesse Williams also joins to discuss his new Amazon series, Hotel Costiera, his experience with Steve Martin, Martin Short and Meryl Streep on Only Murders in the Building, as well as his memories of the late Richard Greenberg and his the Tony-winning play, Take Me Out.
TRANSCRIPT
Louis Virtel [AD]
Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all-new episode of Keep It. I remain Louis Virtel, and I know why you’re here, to learn about The Life of a Show Girl. And girl, am I gonna give it to you. But before that, I have one of my very, very dear friends here, and one of the funniest people I have ever met on stage or off. It is the delicious stand-up comedian, Brendan Scannell.
Brendan Scannell Louis, it is so good to be visiting you at work today.
Louis Virtel Thank you so much. I’ve known this bastard for…a decade now.
Brendan Scannell Over ten years, yeah.
Louis Virtel We’re in a giant friend group, and we’re both deeply midwestern.
Brendan Scannell Mm-hmm. I would say we’re kind, kind members of the group, and you’re actually, your listeners might think you are some cold-hearted man, but you’re very, very sweet.
Louis Virtel I’m one of the sweetest women I’ve ever met.
Brendan Scannell Louis has such a gushy inside.
Louis Virtel Oh, thank you. They knew that. They knew. They were familiar. Brendan, before we move on, first of all, you have a play you’re in this weekend at the Elysian Theater, Big Bear. Tell us about that.
Brendan Scannell This is a play. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the theater. Oh.
Louis Virtel Oh, I love a straight play. Honey, no cloward. That’s me.
Brendan Scannell Well, it is a play it’s called Big Bear. It’s original it’s new it’s running one weekend and you can get tickets in my Instagram bio It’s written by Patrick McDonald great cast kind of a young ish group of performers It’s sort of like the show friends, but me in it
Louis Virtel Oh, okay. Yes. Do you identify with any of the friends in particular just in your day-to-day life? Friend.
Brendan Scannell Um, the more I, the older I get, the more I realize that like the true engine of friends is Ross and as a kid, you’re like Ross is annoying and the older you get, you like, God, all my friends are fucking Ross. So I do, I like Ross a lot. You believe in the patriarchy.
Louis Virtel And also, no, honestly, he does bring a specific kind of humanity. It sort of can seem samey over time, but it also is hilarious.
Brendan Scannell Oh, he’s so funny great physical comedian. Listen, is this is this just a podcast about the show, Friends?
Louis Virtel Yes! PLEASE. Sell it.
Brendan Scannell Coming out of the gate so basic, sorry. Sorry.
Louis Virtel I know neither of our styles. Well, by the way, if you thought that was basic, wait till you hear what we’re talking about today. We’re going to get into Taylor Swift, we’re going get into The Rock’s new movie. We also have an interview with Jesse Williams coming up, Grey’s Anatomy vet. He’s in a new show that is extremely decadent. We’ll talk more about that. But also something that is a signature Brendan Scannell attribute is that you were a survivor
Brendan Scannell big time, and actually, as we famously played in a game of Friend Survivor and made it to Final Tribal.
Louis Virtel This is something that I don’t think we have ever really discussed on the show, how gay men will take reality show concepts and then play them themselves because we want to experience the viciousness among our own literal friends.
Brendan Scannell To be betrayed by your friend and then have to hang out with them for the rest of the night is really painful. My main memory is that we obviously aligned with each other very quickly, and my boyfriend was also playing, so it did have an unfair advantage. But then when we made it to final tribal, we’re sitting there, and I’m making overtures, telling my friends how much I care about them. And you, Challenge Beast, literally went I’M THE ONE WHO KNEW DIANE LADD!
Louis Virtel And by the way, I did.
Brendan Scannell You did.
Louis Virtel There was a challenge in which you had to win with trivia, like at the end of a physical challenge, and he said who was nominated for best supporting actress in 90 and 91, and I sat there like Alan Turing in the invitation game, and I was like, Diane Ladd, and and I won that challenge. And by the way, it must be said, Brendan ended up winning the whole Survivor thing, even though I had, you know, these incredible insights.
Brendan Scannell No challenge beast. I think I had played the social game a little bit stronger.
Louis Virtel I literally called myself a villain immediately.
Brendan Scannell Yes, I think you were it was also like we were coming out of covid socially. Everyone was really I would say deranged
Louis Virtel It was one of the tensest social situations I’ve ever been a part of. And of course, we have a new season of Survivor upon us. There are no members of the Crooked Media staff in the show this year that I can root for or against. I’m not gonna say what happened, but could you entice me into this season?
Brendan Scannell Well, we’re only two episodes in, and this is season 49, so it’s the season right before season 50, where everyone’s gonna come back. So it’s kind of like your first chance to jump in with an all new, your last chance to jump in with like an all-new cast before they start bringing people back, probably through like the 50s and 60s. And it’s a good cast. We’re just starting to get to know them. There’s like a gay guy with a really maniacal laugh, which I always like. Oh, good. And he-
Louis Virtel It’s not Guy Branagh.
Brendan Scannell It’s not guy, I love guys laugh. Whenever I’m doing a set and guys in the audience and I’m not hearing the laugh, I am aware of that. It’s literally like some part of the building to shut off. And there’s this one guy on the show who sort of looks like he’s in this mashing machine and it looks like his steroids have like, you know, like gay guys who have stopped doing steroids.
Louis Virtel They still got the extended belly, but they’re ripped.
Brendan Scannell And he seems really invested in having a bromance, like he’s just invented the word bromance. He’s like, it’s a bromence, it a bromace. And he’s very confident, and I love watching a very confident player fall from grace. That’s what I’m looking forward to.
Louis Virtel I also love when you can tell what got someone on the show, like he definitely said the word bromance 20 times during his audition, he’s like, I’m going to stick with it.
Brendan Scannell Well, we have a much better casting situation recently. There were a couple of seasons where people were like, I’m actually gonna pull myself out of the game and I’m so proud of getting on the show and doing this and I am just proud of myself. And I’m like, who, keep on the the show! No, what is that? What is that, what in the loser dumb, you’re quitting the show?
Louis Virtel There’s a million dollars on the line. No, right, also it’s like you’ve done none of the mental homework of what it would take to be there and you’re just like immediately taking yourself out. No, it’s just saddening. By the way, casting should be able to suss that out.
Brendan Scannell I feel like as friend groups, you know what you should organize for us? The Mole. I love the Mole. You do love the mole.
Louis Virtel The mole takes a lot of preparation because you have to come up with games and clues about who the mole is, and the mole has to commit to not being found out while also trying to sabotage the games. That is an extremely hard job. It’s a hard job, and I think that I would be a good mole. Oh, you would be amazing. You’d be a horrible mole, I’m sorry. I think I would garner suspicion immediately, and for that reason, I think could be a good mole because then I would deflect it. Oh, that’s true.
Brendan Scannell You know because you also kind of want to figure out who the mole is and then keep them around correct Sort of like in the traders a way to play the game is figure out how the traders are and then stay close to them So they don’t eliminate you
Louis Virtel Right, well the traders is the weird case of you actually have no stake in getting rid of them, really. Like, you want them to stick around because you want to know who they are so you can vote for them at the end. Right, because…
Brendan Scannell Because they’re always gonna get rid of somebody every night in the turret. So it’s, you kinda just want them to still like you.
Louis Virtel A broken game in that way. They should figure out a way where like you’re actually up against the people who are voting you out, you know.
Brendan Scannell Yeah, but anyway, um, I think competition’s great. It’s great to be a like a little toxically competitive. I love sports Yeah, no you do. You will watch basketball. I sports and I love athletes being like I’m the fucking best and I think we need more of that
Louis Virtel That’s why I like tennis, because it’s all persona, you know what I mean? Like they are, and then they’re actively doing the persona on the court and you can see their full face when they’re doing it. Have you ever read Andre Agassi’s book? No. Oh, it’s so-
Brendan Scannell Oh, good. And he’s the one who had the thing for a time with- Brooke Shields. Yes, of course. Not to bring it back to Friends, but when Brooke Shield was on Friends and she kisses Matt LeBlanc in an episode, Andre Agassi in the audience, studio audience, walked out. Wow. He said, I couldn’t. And he goes, I walked right out of the studio, got in my car and drove back to Las Vegas. Also, it’s like it’s friends and she’s Brooke Shields. She’s gonna kiss one of the friends. No drama. He is also doing meth. He’s, I mean, it is a great story. Wow. And now he’s coaching the Labor Cup. Love you, Andre. If you’re listening, you’re not.
Louis Virtel I wonder how he handled suddenly Susan.
Brendan Scannell Which, by the way, sometimes I still rewatch. I think he does talk about suddenly Susan. He also became really good. He’s writing. I’m sure he’s not writing. This is how people write books.
Louis Virtel Yes, you’re picturing him like Hemingway, by the way, the typewriter?
Brendan Scannell And he’s like, and then I went to a little show a friend brought me to and he brought me backstage and I met my new best friend, Barbara Streisand.
Louis Virtel That’s what I was gonna bring up his
Brendan Scannell Barbara quotient. He literally they are like two gal pals
Louis Virtel They are very, that’s always been a very mysterious parent. I also just love age differences where the woman is older, where like Dinah Shore, Burt Reynolds. I love that shit.
Brendan Scannell That too. I think everyone needs like a prestige woman in their life to just help them through it.
Louis Virtel Did you see there was a movie a few years ago called Film Stars Don’t Die in Liverpool, and it’s Annette Bening as this actress, Gloria Graham, and then Jamie Bell plays the son of her husband who they have an affair. Ooh, I like that. It’s kind of a creepy story, but she is amazing in it, and he is one of those people, he’s in the category of should have been nominated for an Oscar at some point, and it hasn’t happened yet. Jamie Bell? Yes. Billy Elliot.
Brendan Scannell I’m a poof. That’s him. Yeah.
Louis Virtel Oh, so good his best performance and now he’s with Kate Mara who is herself a little poof
Brendan Scannell Even littler. Those Mara girls are tiny, and I love that. Here they are in this plan.
Louis Virtel One plan. That’s right. Okay, as we stated earlier, we will be talking about the new Taylor Swift album, The Life of a Showgirl Today. I have to say, it is deeply funny that Brendan is here to do this because there was a moment in time when the album Folklore came out and our friends were obsessed with it where we could not stop texting about how we didn’t get it.
Brendan Scannell I, the older I get, I’m more trying to like miss mass culture, like I’m doing my best to stay uninformed, and I will say that if I wasn’t doing this podcast, I probably would not have listened to this album, but that’s mostly because I’m, I am doing a lot of like listening to audiobooks about shipwrecks right now. Oh, okay. Well, you’re turning into somebody’s 60-something father. Oh, I think because America is kind of a shipwreck, and in shipwretches, sometimes people survive and I’m trying to figure out what the secret is.
Louis Virtel Wow, unsinkable Brendan Scannell, as played by Kathy Bates.
Brendan Scannell Oh, of course.
Louis Virtel Yes. So we will get into the Taylor Swift album. We will also get into, the new movie, The Smashing Machine, which is the prestige effort from The Rock, and the adorable Emily Blunt. It’s based on a real story, sort of the beginnings of UFC, way before the UFC explosion.
Brendan Scannell Something we both love.
Louis Virtel Oh my god, can’t stop talking about it. Did you know it’s ultimate fighting? Not just normal fighting. Okay. They really step it up. So we’ll get into that. And then of course we have an interview with Jesse Williams coming up later. But in the meantime, that’s Keep It. We’ll see you after the break.
[AD]
Louis Virtel After months of waiting, Taylor Swift’s 12th studio album, The Life of a Showgirl is finally here. Now I often get a lot of heat from my thoughts on Taylor, but Brendan, you’re also not a Swiftie. Did you go into this album with an open mind and heart or had you already turned against her?
Brendan Scannell I went into this album with such an open heart as I tried to approach the world. And I hadn’t read any reviews and I gave it a listen yesterday as I was making juice in my juicer. And yeah, I made it all the way through and I’m so happy for her. From afar. From very far. And getting farther. Right. Getting further. I do feel like some of the music would work better. The stuff about Travis, right, how do you feel about like an artist, us knowing so much about their personal life and so much being read in between the lines? Sometimes it makes me feel further away from the music because I’m just thinking about the media around it. Like I do, I was trying to picture each song about Travis as her singing about Santa. Right, that’s a natural instinct. Well, some of it does sound like Christmas music. Yeah. And you’re like, if this music had songs, had lyrics about Santa, then it would be better for me.
Louis Virtel Yeah, well, I do feel like a lot of the time she’s responding to an idea about her or a narrative about her as opposed to just telling you what she thinks like I don’t think it really gives you insight into their relationship.
Brendan Scannell No, it does feel like she’s trying to build herself up. This is what athletes do, they take micro-slites and they turn them into massive slides. Yes. And it’s a way to motivate you on the field to vanquish your opponents, but music is different. And so when she’s tying to attack people, that said, I love Reputation. Interesting, I did not know this about you. Oh my God, Reputation’s so good. That’s the album where she revealed herself to be a perturbed white rapper. It’s the one where she was just like, I’m going to be, and it also came out right around the Trump administration. So it was very out of touch in terms of like the zeitgeist. But in retrospect, when you look back at it, you’re like, reputation’s great. It’s kind of pissed off. And I like pissed off music. This music, I do feel like some of it does resonate with me and you, eldest daughter. That’s how I feel, father figure, you to me.
Louis Virtel Dang, right, that’s our entire dynamic right there. Well, it’s interesting you bring up reputation because I think the reason this album has not been received that warmly by fans or critics, I think it’s her lowest pitchfork rating so far, she’s got like a 5.9 on it, is that people expected a successful stylistic shift like she did with reputation, like she with folklore, for example. Because the title, The Life of a Showgirl, says whiz-bang, right? You call an album Life of Showgirl. I want Cheetah Rivera to fly out of the album sleeve when I open it. Has anyone ever said whizbang? Oh, no. I live in the 1920s. Did I not mention that? Oh, gee! Oh! The bee’s knees. And what they actually got was an album they kind of have already heard from Taylor Swift, but not as exciting. You know, like a lot of the things she does on this album, the romanticness of it, the diss track. The callback to literature you have only read in the first half of high school, which is what she remembers. I feel like it all is very familiar to her fans. But honestly, I could go through all the things about Taylor Swift as a songwriter that I find a little annoying or just not quote unquote for me, but I think all those things are not relevant. The reason this album does not work as well is because the production is boring. I feel this is music that wants to have 1989 turbos underneath it, propelling it along, making them into big pop songs. And instead what you get is kind of pedestrian pace music, even like the lead single, The Fate of Ophelia, which has a fabulous video, by the way, like really high concept, expensive looking and all the showgirl regalia you actually want. It just feels mid-tempo. Like it kind of could belong to anybody, not particularly even her. And it needs more kind of angst and drive. And I want to be clear about her. She does want to have drama in her songs. Like when you call a song father figure or when you have this like uh… Actually romantic this district that allegedly aimed at charlie xx she wants to like and but up she wants it to be like a a throwdown and instead it’s like max martin and shove at the producers on this album who she’s worked with before opted to do something all little less attention grabby which is crazy when the album is a showgirl feet
Brendan Scannell Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would agree with that and I think lyrically, you know, I’m I have depression so I am looking always like For those like Lana Del Rey type lyrics that are like I’m sucking dick by the docks and it felt good But at least and I feel empty but at least I feel something for once. Yeah come hits my throat Can I say that’s beautiful? Yes, that’s sort of like loose Lana lyricism and a fortune cookie. I got last week And Taylor Swift, just ultimately, her audience is younger girls, and so it can’t really capture that angst in that way for me. Yeah. I kind of want to know, would you walk into the river with rocks in your pockets? And I don’t think she’ll ever reach that level of clinical depression. So she just doesn’t resonate with me on like a wave, on like a vibratory wavelength. So if the music isn’t like catching or grabbing or like she’s trying something completely new, I’m like, Oh, well, I’ll wait for the next one where she is trying something completely new or where she’s doing what she does really well at her top level, you know?
Louis Virtel It makes sense to me that you prefer reputation, then, because I think of a lot of what she does here, and in general, and something that I don’t particularly vibe with, is that she is always playing up a kind of fairy tale. It’s about a kind bliss, even the way she sings, it’s like a cooing storybook kind of vibe, which is different from, I think you and I are both huge fans of Amy Mann, where it’s the vibe is sardonic, but straightforward. And I feel like when somebody is doing all of this breathy I don’t want to say infantilizing, but just kind of fairy tale oriented vibing. It doesn’t really feel like she’s talking to fellow peers. It feels like it’s kind of meant for people younger than her. And she is the master of that sometime. I still think one of her best songs is 15, which is from Fearless, and talks to you about being 15 when she was like 20. Brilliant.
Brendan Scannell Even the song um, it’s like, love story? Marry me, Juliet, never want to be alone. That song’s great.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Brendan Scannell And it feels like that tailor who wrote that was really connected to that like teen girl who was about and, but now I’m like, girl, you’re in like your mid thirties. Like you’re writing a song that’s specifically about prom. And then the guy you’re asking died. It’s very leader of the pack.
Louis Virtel Do not bring up the Shangri-La’s right now.
Brendan Scannell Varoom varoom. I’m listening to it and I’m like she’s not gonna kill this guy is she she’s like it and i’m like the leader of the pack
Louis Virtel That’s also kind of a weird song. This is Ruin the Friendship. By the way, that’s my favorite lyric on the album is always ruin the friendship. Like that, okay, that an insight. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you have a crush on somebody and you’re walking on eggshells with them and she’s like, it’s not worth it if you don’t go for it.
Brendan Scannell Ruin the friendship? My first love of my life was my friend and then we hooked up and it ruined the friendship but we fell in love. I love that idea. Shouts out.
Louis Virtel No, but like that straightforwardness I love and I feel like a lot of her writing is now based in these kind of, I’m going to call them attempts at wordplay or like twisting a cliche, which can work. Amy Man does a lot that, but it’s just, it’s layered. She does that so many times in a row where she gets caught up in the wordplay and gets away from any actual sentiment. Like, you know, it I think the writing on fearless is better than her writing from the past five years, because it’s just straightforward and, you know, letting the the feeling of the music and the directness of the lyrics gel together. Whereas here, it’s like you’re supposed to kind of be, she’s a little toothasaurus.com. Too many adjectives rhyming, too much car rhymes with bar rhymes with star.
Brendan Scannell Because she can be a great lyricist, I mean, typically on each of her albums there will be like two songs where I’m like, ooh, I love that album, and my boyfriend is a hater, you know, he’s like, Beyonce’s back in it! That’s a direct impression of my boyfriend, and I just don’t have that much skin in the game, and so there’s usually two songs, like I love the song Dress, you know like I bought this dress to take off. I just brought it to take off in front of you, like, I’m like, oh, I love that, sexy. And yeah, maybe on another list and I’ll find a song that I resonate with more. I listened to it because I’m doing this podcast. I mostly try to steer clear of culture in general.
Louis Virtel Right. Thank you for that. Well, also, I think going back to the idea that this is something that her fans have heard before and maybe a little bit more supercharged in other formats, I do feel like things that just seem familiar to fans upon first listen, once she has a couple more albums behind her belt, this I think will sit better because it’s not like it’s offensive really. It’s pleasant to listen to. If we’re comparing it to another album this year that was not well received, I you’re familiar with the Katy Perry album 143. Which it came out. She had an album come out. That’s exactly the sentiment everybody had. The problem with that album was it felt like it could have been written by anybody. Like it didn’t have any of Katie’s signature, whatever she brings. And it was written by Dr. Luke, right? There’s a lot of that going on too. There’s one good song on it, Lifetimes, great song.
Brendan Scannell Oh, I like Lifetime.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Brendan Scannell LIFETIMES!
Louis Virtel That’s the one. That’s it, right? That was such a Drew Droege comic move.
Brendan Scannell Drew Droge in a play in New York. Go see it.
Louis Virtel It sounds like it’s amazing. But the problem with that album was, it felt like you type pop album into Chatchie BT and just whatever came out, came out. On this album, I almost feel like this hits worse for fans because not only were they expecting a stylistic shift from where she’s been before… It’s like you can tell she wrote it, but it feels almost like a parody of what she would write. You know, like the song where she complains about meme culture and being online. You know it’s like, it still feels like the really popular girl claiming that someone somewhere doesn’t like what she does. And it’s, like, wouldn’t it be weird if everyone liked you? That would be bizarre.
Brendan Scannell Are you even following people on Instagram like I am not sure what’s going on with Taylor’s Instagram But I imagine it’s one of those like following zeros. Yes, so it’s like what do you see it? Yeah, no, no Like are you seeing like reposts that are like get ice out of Chicago like are you’re seeing what we’re seeing? Are you seeing the things that matter or are you only seeing stuff about yourself and?
Louis Virtel And I think that’s, you’re now indicating what I think is the reason it’s really hard for me to get into her as a phenomenon. She’s interested in so little. It’s always about being in a romantic relationship, being the victim in a relationship, or feeling like the target of haters. And that’s kind of it, you know, it’s like, there’s never just like, here’s an album where I’m really into a character study of somebody who has nothing to do with me.
Brendan Scannell Or even like if she read a book about a shipwreck. Exactly. What if she was just like, I’m gonna write all about the shipwrecks that I read about. That’d be an interesting departure. Right. There’s too much money on the line. Here’s the thing is for someone like her who is an employer of probably like thousands of people and has a certain lifestyle she’s looking to continue to lead and generationally, there’s just too much on the lines to do something risky, it feels like. Although I guess folklore and evermore were like sort of like she like ate Suvian Stevens for lunch.
Louis Virtel Yes, and also, she deserves credit for nobody expected those albums to come out. Nobody expected them. You know, so that is pretty rad. And by the way, I also like, whenever Taylor Swift does anything or an album’s about to come, you hear a flurry of people being like, well, whatever she does, everybody has to have an opinion. I like that everybody has to have a opinion about one female singer-songwriter. That has never been the case ever. Oh, sure. You know what I mean? Like even like Alanis Morissette, she had her gigantic moment when she exploded. And then sort of disappeared into Canadiana, and we let her. Yeah, one, two great albums. Yes, I love supposed to form an infatuation junkie, yes. But like the idea that it’s, and it’s not just that you have an opinion about her the way you once would be forced to have an opinion about Madonna, where people would just look at a tabloid rack and scream slut or whatever the common opinion was.
Brendan Scannell Is that what you were screaming?
Louis Virtel No.
Brendan Scannell See that’s what Louis screams at me.
Louis Virtel To get your attention because you’re a slave.
Brendan Scannell 2015 I’m walking through West Hollywood and I just hear, slut! And that’s how we met.
Louis Virtel That’s right. You’re like, my father?
Brendan Scannell Mother?
Louis Virtel Whereas with her, it’s like not only does everybody have to have an opinion, it kind of means you have to listen to the music. So I’m supportive of that. If that’s the only female artist certain people hear an entire year, that’s an extremely rad accomplishment, I think. I mean, I’m not saying they’re valuable opinions these people will have.
Brendan Scannell What is your favorite album of this year so far?
Louis Virtel This year. Oh, God. I do love the new Jade album. Top to bottom really good. And I love the new Doja Cat album, which just came out last week too.
Brendan Scannell I gotta listen to that one.
Louis Virtel She was just on SNL and killed it.
Brendan Scannell Okay, great. I gotta watch that too. I’m telling you, I truly… I mostly sit in my house and look at my plants. I’m a great co-host of a culture podcast.
Louis Virtel Well, we can just investigate what your plants were saying to you. You know?
Brendan Scannell You’re so fucking sexy. I love you.
Louis Virtel Oh, they’re horny.
Brendan Scannell Oh, yeah.
Louis Virtel I didn’t understand.
Brendan Scannell Feed me.
Louis Virtel Now, so you say Reputation is your favorite Taylor Swift album. I think so. Yeah. If I had to pick my five favorite Taylor swift albums, okay, I’m going to go number one for me is 1989.
Brendan Scannell Oh, so good.
Louis Virtel I remember when that album occurred. First of all, that’s over a decade ago and that was already a time when you had to have an opinion about Taylor Swift.
Brendan Scannell That’s blank space, right? Honestly her best music video for me, too.
Louis Virtel I think so. And also, Taylor at her funniest, which I think is a crucial problem she has. Like, I think a lot of these songs about heartbreak, et cetera, would be great if they had one turn of phrase that was hilarious. Then I’d be like, oh, that’s my girl. But instead it’s like just dubious wordplay. But anyway, 1989, the sonics of it, the fact that it’s, it really isn’t throwback at all. It was very of the moment music, I think, but top to bottom, not a word wasted. You know, it’s not a verbose album. It’s just perfect hooks and sentiments that you remember thereafter. And I love how the album ends. I love the song Clean. Ooh, I love Clean. Yeah, great song. Clean! I know all that. I’ve never heard any song ever. I’m just pretending. Yeah. My second favorite album is Fearless because as we said, it says it’s an album of innocence and embarking on romance. But it’s so well expressed. It’s like the ultimate album of Innocence, I think, especially now compared to the rest of the albums she gave us.
Brendan Scannell And I was probably in high school when that came out, and you were what, 43, 44?
Louis Virtel That’s right. Ready to die.
Brendan Scannell You had just gotten divorced.
Louis Virtel Yes, right. For the third time. I was like, I’m getting my Realtors license. I’m going to figure this out. My third favorite is Red because she meshes pop stylings with singer-songwriter stylings. That’s a universe in which I live. Thereafter, I would go with Folklore because she pulled off the stylistic shift. And then my fifth favorite, I will say Reputation because you’re right, it’s a rowdy album and it’s the only time she was ever rowdy.
Brendan Scannell It’s rowdy. I also was at the VMAs that she performed that year that Katy Perry hosted. Love you, Katy. And yeah, it was great. She was dancing.
Louis Virtel Oh yeah, I just watched footage of her performing. Look what you made me do. Oh, Shake It Off on Jimmy Kimmel, which is one of my least favorite songs of hers, given the fact that it’s on 1989. Yeah, that’s a song that doesn’t belong on that album, which is very strange.
Brendan Scannell What’s me on? ME!
Louis Virtel Lover. Yeah.
Brendan Scannell I, yeah, okay.
Louis Virtel That’s another transition album of hers. I would compare Life of a Showgirl to that, where it’s like, oh, here’s like a familiar sound for you that sort of feels like a comma between albums.
Brendan Scannell B-sides.
Louis Virtel If you will.
Brendan Scannell She, you gotta release something every year or two. There’s so much money on the line. So just release the songs that you wrote that didn’t go on the first album. That’s kind of what this one feels like to me.
Louis Virtel Yeah, I also feel like every experienced like veteran artist has albums like that and it’s okay, you know I mean like I’m obsessed with PJ Harvey. I don’t find the album. Uh-huh her as gratifying as any of her other albums
Brendan Scannell And you’re the first person to say that in the year 2025.
Louis Virtel I have, shall we say, Gen X angst.
Brendan Scannell Of course.
Louis Virtel You know, again, I will say about this album, when I first listened to it, I thought it was unlistenably boring. The second, third, and fourth listens. I was singing along with some of the songs and I think the fate of Ophelia, and again, she has only heard of ever five books.
Brendan Scannell Heard of Ophelia.
Louis Virtel Yes, right. It felt like her grasp on the story was limited.
Brendan Scannell She’s in water.
Louis Virtel Yes. It’s about water. Yes. And there’s men. Yeah. All right. That’s our take on Taylor Swift for now. Jump in the comments in case you’re a Taylor Swift fan who needs to be instructed to go into the comments. I doubt that’s the case. We’ll be right back with more Keep It, but before that, some quick housekeeping. [AD] All right, when we’re back, my conversation with Jesse Williams.
Speaker 2 [AD]
Louis Virtel Today’s guest is the ultimate leading man among men. You know him from Grey’s Anatomy, of course, but also Only Murders in the Building and his Tony nominated work in Broadway’s Take Me Out. Now he’s shipping his talents to the Amalfi Coast and oh my God is it scenic in Prime Video’s new series, Hotel Costiera. Please welcome to Keep It, it’s Jesse Williams.
Jesse Williams Thank you. Good to be here.
Louis Virtel Watching this show, I mean you’re so taken first of all with the environs before you get into the actual intrigue and the overarching mystery and the mini mysteries on this show. What are the perks and also the like disadvantages of filming in such a scenic location? Like are you up against anything specific when you’re in such beautiful place filming a show?
Jesse Williams Well, there’s two, one practical and one kind of more, maybe spiritual. First of all, it’s a very, it looks like this, you know, it is this grand, beautiful place, but it’s actually one road in, one road out. It’s a ten-end. If there’s 2 cars, 2 trucks facing each other, one’s got to back up. Like, getting things in and out, there’s easily a lot of… kind of obstructions and roadblocks, figuratively and literally, that can slow production down, etc. That’s less interesting. One thing though, as somebody who lives now in Los Angeles, no longer in New York, we are nine hours ahead in the Amalfi Coast. So a hardship, to mangle the term, is that when I’m awake, they’re asleep. When they’re asleep, I’m awake, you’re totally detached from, you know, I would have to set my alarm at 3 a.m. To wake up and speak to my kids after school. You know? Like I’d have to, you’re kind of all over the place. Soon as you’re going to sleep, LA is waking up and New York’s waking up, and you’re firing off emails and blah blah blah. So it really messes with your sleep. But that’s also the gift, is that I could really be present there on my work day. My phone’s not blowing up because everybody’s asleep. Once I go to work, like I really am present on that coast, and especially as a producer because I’m. Involved in every aspect of the show. So I’ve got irons in the fire and I’m working and I’m really here. My phone, I don’t have to knock this email out. I don’t have to get back to this person. I have my space. And I really came to value that. I’m somebody who likes to be really present on set. I like guests on set, I like friends or family or loved ones There I like to be with you when I’m working and then home when I am home.
Louis Virtel Also, you’re the only American actor on this show too, which I assume contributed to the sort of escapism that viewers enjoy from the show, but does that also make it difficult for you being the only America actor on the show?
Jesse Williams You said two things that I don’t know that I’ve really thought about in that way before. Yes, I’m the only American, and I guess that does contribute to the escapism because it feels more authentic. You really are somewhere else, and the viewer, American viewers, are kind of aligned with me as a fish out of water, so to speak. I don t know, man. I think that it actually was great. I wasn’t, you know, our director, our showrunner, Adam Bernstein of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Fargo, genius. Um was was there and he speaks italian our entire crew is italian this is entirely italian production um so i had somebody with in terms of like cultural references and asides but i think it really contributed to the character work you know like if i had five buddies from chicago and detroit and you know and we’re visiting i’d feel more like we’re just we just took we packed up our show and brought it somewhere else instead of really being embedded. Because I really was embedded. I think it contributed to the work I was able to do and just kind of grounding everything.
Louis Virtel Also, I was reading your green flags for what makes you choose a part. And one of them was that you like choosing things you’ve never really done before. That’s, I mean, like there’s so much going on here that I don’t think I’ve ever seen you do before, but what were the specific things about this project that made you say, not only can I lock into this, but it will activate me and I’ll be good at the part.
Jesse Williams You know, to be honest, I think coming out of, you know, I was on a show for a decade, which was really my most, pretty much all the acting I’ve done. I just didn’t start acting till I was almost 30 years old. I was a public school teacher for God’s sake. And then I got on this monster show and that show shoots 10 months a year. So I was really only doing that show. So while I got a ton of valuable hours of work, it was one way. So since then, I’ve been trying to just do different things. And in this case, you now, I wanna do some action. I want to whip a speedboat and drive a motorcycle and kick some guys in the face and live out my 12-year-old fantasy of, you know, from action movies. I want do comedy. I love comedy. It’s who I am. It’s what I grew up on. It’s is what inspires me. So getting to be able to do comedy and kind of be in funny situations and action were the two things that were kind of on my board, you that I wanted to, I romanticized but I wanted to actually do and to be able to kind of design and And also, I think there was a little something about, we have two great British actors on the show. I grew up with a lot of British comedy, Monty Python and such. So like the comedic styling and timing from doing it with guys from other, from people from other countries was like an interesting workshop. I think those were the primarily the two, but also it was getting the hell out of the United States for a little bit. I thought that was important. I thought it’s a big world out there. What we do is a global thing. I think I learned a lot of that from Grey’s. It’s a global, you know, top five show in like 200 territories still. And there’s an interesting world out and there’s a wider audience to serve. And I think that America’s appetite, I started to see that America is appetite for subtitles and different cultures was finally cracking open. With some other shows, Money Heist and Griselda and Squid Game and stuff, like, okay, Americans will read a little bit and they can see something outside of their environment. So those were all factors, I think, that made me go, you know what, let’s try this and I got to learn Italian, which was a little scary.
Louis Virtel Well, also I know people who just watch English shows with subtitles now, like truly like reading has accidentally happened on screens to everybody. I don’t know what that shift is or why. Maybe TikTok’s a part of it. I have no idea.
Jesse Williams My daughter’s who’s in seventh grade is like, I want it subtitles, but it’s, I mean, I’m not mad that you’re reading, but I also, as a performer, I want you to watch the performance. Yeah. Like look up here, watch what they’re doing. It’s the only time I’m ever conflicted about my child reading.
Louis Virtel No, I’m like, this is good. Maybe I don’t know. Yeah, we had the actress Danielle Deadwiler on here.
Jesse Williams Incredible actor.
Louis Virtel I called her a psycho to her face. She’s like something is wrong with how talented she is. And she talked about, I mean, she’s obviously an incredible, a cerebral intense actor, but she talked to taking that movie, Carry On, she goes, I wanted to drive that car. And I’m like, it’s interesting to me that somebody who is that intense and, you know, kind of theatrical and cerebral actor still wants the action component. What is it about that that you wanted?
Jesse Williams You know what I think part of it is, all actors have to suffer through auditions. Auditions suck. I know one of the reasons auditions are hard is because they’re fake. I’m in a playing room pretending to be in some environment and responding to that environment and you kind of feel like you’re on a candid camera show. You know and it’s that falseness when you can replace it by really being in the car with the wind really in your hair and the person really there, it just allows you to use your full self. And so something that is physical and jostling and that requires your attention, it gives you business as a kind of an actor term. I have business to do. I’m talking to you, but I’m also making a sandwich. That grounds it. So physicality, whether it’s actual action like fighting, which requires choreography and other things, I think the actor’s brain is like… Four or five brains at a time where I’m having an internal monologue, I’m thinking about my mom, I’m thinkin’ about pickin’ up my kids from school, I’m talkin’ to you, do I have the lines right, should I start over in the audition, did I mess that up, is she paying attention? There’s a lot going on, so if we can have tactile things to engage with, I think for some of us, everybody’s process is different. That just is fun, and also what we do is we play. It’s an adventure. I might as well do something different than I do normally.
Louis Virtel Totally. No, I imagine that Grey’s Anatomy was the holy grail for having business to do. Like when you’re on set, like you’re never not holding a tube or like reaching for something or running towards something.
Jesse Williams My god. And speaking, I mean, speaking in a different kind of foreign language. It’s one thing to memorize four pages of words. It is another thing to do it with words you have never heard or said before in your life that are all polysyllabic, three to six syllables. You know, like that was a real boot camp. You’re absolutely right about that.
Louis Virtel I also learned that you learned about directing on the set of that show, specifically through the tutelage of Chandra Wilson and Debbie Allen.
Jesse Williams Instrumental.
Louis Virtel Which to me sounds like the dream. Like two of my favorite people, period.
Jesse Williams Yeah.
Louis Virtel There’s a viral clip going around now of Debbie Allen and Phylicia Rashad exchanging some words at the beginning of an interview where they are being so saucy with each other in a friendly, but like, well, those ladies are dishing it, kind of way. So I’m interested in what you got from those two people as mentors.
Jesse Williams Yeah, those sisters. I don’t know that I could think of two more powerful siblings. Yeah, Chandra Wilson I think was first in my life and kind of letting me shadow her literally and just giving me, sharing her wisdom, imparting her wisdom. Challenging me as a director. You know, I shied away frankly from, I was given the opportunity to direct a little bit earlier on that show and I didn’t, It didn’t appeal to me because it didn’t feel like a director’s medium. That show is a machine that goes on its own. They know what they’re doing. I kind of felt like a directors just going to visit and try not to fuck it up. Some changes were made and Chandra had a really interesting take and that was really helpful and then Debbie came on as kind of our directing producer, like our on the ground and she added a lot more creative freedom to the experience. And and that opened it up for me. Both of them continue to be. I just saw them not too long ago, a couple of weeks ago. They have a huge place in my heart, as mentors, as friends, and as artists, for sure.
Louis Virtel Your turn in Take Me Out, your Tony-nominated turn, your own co-star won the Tony for that, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, a play written by Richard Greenberg, a baseball play. I think first of all, one of the few sports plays that has like stood the test of time, but what are your memories from being in that fabulously received show?
Jesse Williams You know, it’s funny timing. I just landed back from New York at about one in the morning for Richard Greenberg’s funeral in New York. So rejoined with the cast, obviously not ideal circumstances, but it was my first time seeing a lot of my buddies in the flesh in a while. In the flesh, nice choice of words there. Right, people know the lore. Yes, go ahead. Yeah, but I love. I think you say my company is the theater term. I, you know, my, my partner is there, um, really transformative experience in my life. I had never done theater before, right? Yeah. I had, so that was my school and graduate school and the material is so incredible. It’s an incredible play. I encourage anybody just to read it. It’s a, you, it’s, it, it really dense and poignant. You can actually go to Lincoln Center, if you’re ever in New York, in their library, they archive, they put us in the National Archives there, so you can actually watch the play. It’s, yeah, a transformative experience, and I miss it. I miss being there, it’s incredibly grueling, it’s really exhausting work, but so damn thrilling, and it feels like a different level of sport than film and TV, and that’s why theater actors hold it in such high regard, and I was really honored to be welcomed into that community.
Louis Virtel You also have been a part of two ensembles that are so stacked with legends. I can only wonder what being in the company of these people congregated together for them is like. One is Only Murders in the Building, of course, which is like legendsonly.com. And then also Lee Daniels the butler, which if every single person in that movie is like the most accomplished actor of all time, were those two experiences at all similar based on just the sheer kind of company you kept.
Jesse Williams Yeah, that’s a deep cut. That’s a good reference. I think a difference would be, and this is true a lot in films maybe more so than TV, the butler, all these incredible actors, but I didn’t necessarily work with or even see.
Louis Virtel Right, yes.
Jesse Williams A good percentage of them, right? And I can work with Forrest Whitaker and Colman Domingo had a part in that before he took over the world and they’re just incredible actors. And… But I didn’t work with most of them. Only murders, I really hit a great season. I got Meryl Streep, Paul Rudd, you know, and I grew up, Steve Martin and Martin Short were everything, but I was on set with them. I got to sit in holding with them and just talk shit and just hang out and hear their stories. I actually met Steve and Marty for the first time because they came to take me out before we ever shot a frame. They came to me out and then took me to dinner. So I got sit with them at dinner and I’m just I don’t know where I am. And they’re on. They’re just so damn funny without trying to be. And I just couldn’t, I felt like I was in a dream. I had, you know, you laugh so hard, the muscles in the back of your head start to hurt. That was my experience on set with those guys. Just watching, doing off-camera work with Martin Short, just watching him, I was cheesing like a kid who just met Mickey Mouse. It was really wild. Um, I kind of had a like a theater themed year. I finished that year on Broadway, went right into Only Murders in the Building in New York while still doing the play. I was doing both for a time. There was some overlap. Then I went from there straight to shoot The Great Lillian Hall, where I play a Broadway director with Jesse DeLay and Kathy Bates as president. So everything was theater-themed for a good 18 months. Yeah, I mean, I’m just hitting the greats. It was really. It’s really a great trip.
Louis Virtel No, but when you’re actually like on the ground floor with people like Steve Martin and Martin Short and they have and they themselves are a well-oiled machine, does getting that close to it and being conversational with them actually help what you do or would it actually help you to be more apart from them and to just operate the way you normally do and sort of pretend, you know, you’re.
Jesse Williams Yeah, you know, it helped. It helped, it’s kind of, you know, there’s a course probably going to be, and I don’t recall any in this case, but it would be totally natural to have some nervous energy. It’s kind of like, I love if I’m playing baseball and I’m playing catch and then, you, know, an absolute great comes out on the field and I get to play catch with them and throw it back and forth. You’re a little nervous for us, but then after the two throws, now you’re really whizzing it back, and forth, and you feel electrified, you feel invigorated, you’re part of it. It’s not. It’s not about ego or anything like that, it’s just we’re doing it, we’re plugged in. So yeah, I think it just kind of, it just put a battery in your back in that way. And also to be able to, this is a small, big detail, to be just able to hang with them and chat between takes. Like so you don’t, everything doesn’t hang in a balance of one take, like oh shit, am I good? Are they judged like? If you’re relaxed, if they’re welcoming, and that is a credit to them. They were all so generous and open. And I think doing a Broadway play helped them see me as their peers, if I’m being honest. So there was that. Yeah, I’m so glad to have done it. I wouldn’t want to be at some remove from them.
Louis Virtel I have a dream that if I were on set with Meryl Streep, she would just start doing like her Yale-type pratfalls and stuff for us, like showing us all her tricks.
Jesse Williams Yeah, yeah, that’d be great. Just the toolbar.
Louis Virtel What is she like on set, but did you sort of glean anything from her?
Jesse Williams She’s, like, astonishingly regular, you know, like she’s really… Which is so upsetting. Please just be extraordinary at all times. There’s no diva. There’s not diva, she’s just… And I mean regular as like humble. Yeah. Just chilling, having… Asking me how to text with her daughter, you learn something about, you, know, voice. I was telling them I’m a big voice note guy. I voice note all my friends. I don’t really text. I just leave a long, meandering three-minute, 37-second voice note that could have been 40 seconds. And And I think her daughter was doing that back or she wanted to write something. And I was like, let’s try a voice note because it’ll give the context. So you don’t feel like a meddling mom or whatever it was. And so you’re talking about normal stuff with them. And then having Marty and Steve there just makes everything 10 times funnier than you thought was possible. But yeah, she was really, really chill. And we talked a lot about theater. We had some people in common. So there was um It was pretty wild. It’s one thing to meet some of your heroes, but to kind of have common denominators with them is a little bizarre.
Louis Virtel Well, if you wanna see Jesse Williams in some of the most beautiful vistas you will ever see on television, you must now watch Hostel Costiera, which is on Amazon Prime Video now. Thank you so much for being here. It’s been such a pleasure.
Jesse Williams Thanks so much for having me, I really do appreciate it. Love the show, guys. Thank you.
Louis Virtel Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Jesse Williams. When we’re back, it’s more Keep It.
[AD]
Louis Virtel It’s Hollywood law that we can’t go a year without a pain portrayal of a fighter punching their way through life. And this time it’s Dwayne the Rock Johnson’s turn. He stars alongside Emily Blunt in Benny Safdie’s new film, The Smashing Machine, which follows three pivotal years in the life of MMA fighter Mark Kerr. Now, usually the Rock’s movies aren’t my speed, but I was shocked by his performance here. Brendan, would you say you’re a big Rock fan?
Brendan Scannell I did go see this film yesterday. I have to tell you, I got a spray tan in West Hollywood. So you’re fitting right into MMA culture. Right, exactly, in honor of him. And I brought my own towel and I walked into the AMC Grove and I put the towel down because I didn’t want to get my spray tan all over that chair and impact somebody else’s life. This is so vivid and disgusting, go ahead. I am going insane. Yeah, I’ve been in this city too long and and I watched this film I actually felt like there was some transformative acting here being done that I was not expecting, but I haven’t seen a lot of The Rock’s work, like I’ve never seen a Fast and the Furious.
Louis Virtel You’ve never escaped to Witch Mountain?
Brendan Scannell Is he in that?
Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s right.
Brendan Scannell Well, maybe I’ll check that one out, I love a witch…
Louis Virtel I’ve never seen it. I hopefully he puts a big flag down on witch mountain like letters from Iwo Jima style.
Brendan Scannell Is he trying to get away from Witch Mountain, or I was confused if they were trying to go to Witch Mountain or come back to Witch mountain.
Louis Virtel I’m sick of Witch Mountain. I want to go home!
Brendan Scannell Which mountain?
Louis Virtel That’s him on the cover.
Brendan Scannell Who’s on which mountain.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Brendan Scannell Yeah, that’s pretty good. That’s good. Where’s my Notebook this sorry. This is my hair gel. My hair gel.
Louis Virtel Your UCB level four shit. Shut the fuck up.
Brendan Scannell Oh Golly, um, I This what I also Emily Blunt great American accent.
Louis Virtel Yes, the only thing that’s confused to me about her in this movie is how old is she supposed to be?
Brendan Scannell How old are either of them supposed to be?
Louis Virtel It is a little bit confusing. They’re a married couple. He is this guy who was a
Brendan Scannell They’re not even married, they’re girlfriends.
Louis Virtel Yes. They’re girlfriends. She’s his girlfriend. They, of course, have been in other movies together. They were in Jungle Cruise, Old Time Friends. But I will say this about any movie about a fighter, it has a long way to go to prove it is doing anything new, because not only is this an old genre of sports film, it’s basically the oldest. We were full of boxing movies by the end of the 30s. And it’s the same thing. Babyface. Yes. Precisely. You know, we had like Golden Boy with William Holden, you have The Champ with Wallace Beery as one of the first best actor wins. But it’s kind of always the same thing. The fighter character is this dogged guy, quote unquote down on his luck. And they’re always sympathetic and unsympathetic in familiar ways. They’re always like, you know, they’re unsypathetic in that they have a bad temper like this character does in this movie. Sympathic in that he’s trying to get his life together. And so there’s like an internal battle there. So for the first… Like hour of this movie, I was pretty annoyed by how expected it was. Even though Dwayne The Rock Johnson is great. You can tell this is a passion movie project of his and it is, he’s the one who brought this all together. The point of the movie is that at the end, one kind of twisty thing occurs that is not the norm for a boxing movie. Like he expects one outcome and gets another. And I just don’t know that that’s enough to rest the movie on.
Brendan Scannell No. I, first off, I love the way this movie, I really struggle with fighting movies because of the violence. There’s a moment where Dwayne is like talking to a woman and she’s like, that’s too violent for me. And I’m like, oh, me, I represented on the screen. And it was really Carol Channing. Who was that? Yes, he’s talking to this older woman in a doctor’s office. And then the movie sort of becomes like an addiction movie, which I’m interested in. I love rehab films, 28 Days, Sandra Bullock. I went to rehab. We watched rehab movies in rehab. And so, but then that wasn’t necessarily what the movie was about. And then, the movie ultimately was about him going to Japan and trying to win this fight. And so… Yeah, I kind of was enjoying the hair and the ride and the way it looked on film. Like, I hate the look of digital and so I loved the way this looked. I like Benny Safdie a lot. But yeah, and I liked the performance from the other MMA fighter. He was great and he was a legit fighter. So grounded, like easy, believable. But yeah I don’t find the world that compelling because I don’t quite understand it and I- I think that they were trying to rest it on like the idea that nothing feels better than when you’re dominating another man in the ring and trying to grapple with like that, the addiction to that feeling. But yeah, ultimately then like his girlfriend’s kind of annoying and there’s a moment where I thought. It was gonna end a different way and I was like this guy literally I’m in an empty theater at the AMC Grove It with my spray tan laying on my towel and I go But then she I’m sorry to spike the mic, but then it ended up not being that.
Louis Virtel Yes. Like that. Also, yeah, Emily Blunt in this movie turns into a character where she’s so ridiculous with him that you’re like, why is this relationship still going on? She’s doing nothing but quote unquote distracting him and making him feel bad and it just becomes an abusive relationship. Well, women are.
Brendan Scannell Well, women are a distraction, and I’ve been saying this.
Louis Virtel Universally as a species, they’re all together. I do want to say, like, it is cool to watch The Rock be dropped in. Like, there’s not a moment in this movie where I feel like it’s a stretch or it’s going for excess sympathy. In a way, I think in a way that contributed to me being bored early on because he was so just being on screen, being realistic, that I was caught up in what is cliche about the movie in a But I do feel like, as a sports movie, it doesn’t give me enough novelty. And then it got me thinking about what I actually want from sports movies. But guess what? The other Safdie Brothers about to come out with that movie Marty Supreme, which is the ping pong movie starring Timothy Chalamet and Winnet Tashow. And people are fucking obsessed with it. Apparently it just aired last night, or screened last night and people are all about it. And I, if there’s something I want from a sports movie. It is the return of Gwyneth Paltrow. I was just gonna-
Brendan Scannell I was just gonna say that when I saw her in that trailer. I was like Gwyneth? Goop? My Uber Eats Queen?
Louis Virtel Excuse me, people don’t understand that Goop Kitchen…lays it down.
Brendan Scannell Goop Kitchen lays it down, Goop kitchen, it’s a licensing deal.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Brendan Scannell She’s making so much money off Goop Kitchen and it’s all from me.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Brendan Scannell To get back to this film.
Louis Virtel Please do.
Brendan Scannell The movie’s about fighting and I love a sports movie. Sports movies can feel so euphoric. A movie I love about fighting, The Fighter.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Brendan Scannell Melissa Leo.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Brendan Scannell I felt like this character for me, he kind of appears out of thin air. In the beginning, and then he’s sort of rudderless, and not rudder, he has no context.
Louis Virtel He sort of just dropped into the story.
Brendan Scannell He used to be a wrestler and now he’s got this girlfriend, but I’m like, who’s his family? Like what made him wanna be a fighter? What’s he fighting for other than like kind of a fair amount of money? Just can he have no other job? We’ve seen the wrestler, the Mickey Rourke film, where it’s like, he’s basically all he can do. And I’m, like, this guy actually has kind of nice life in Arizona. Couldn’t he like be a commentator?
Louis Virtel No, precisely. Also, you just put your finger on something like, I don’t know that I was obsessed with the movie The Fighter when it came out, other than I love Amy Adams in it. Ah, she’s so good. Take that nasty hair right out of your fucking head or whatever, she goes, so good, but that’s the rare movie about a fighter where other characters are as fascinating. You know, like even like Raging Bull, like Joe Pesci is good, Cathy Moriarty is good but it’s about Jake LaMotta. Like it’s centered around that person. Like, Rocky only really has Rocky, Adrian doesn’t get much to do. So I appreciated that about that movie, but I feel like we are still due for another great fighter movie. Creed is about as close as we came in the past 10 years, I think.
Brendan Scannell Aren’t we about to get a Sydney Sweeney fighting movie?
Louis Virtel Yes, we are and I feel like she’s gonna be good and the movie is gonna be a D plus
Brendan Scannell I’m, yeah, Jury’s Out. Yes. I mean, what’s the main, the Hillary Swank film?
Louis Virtel Oh, Million Dollar Baby, yes.
Brendan Scannell Million Dollar baby, that’s a great fighting movie. I really struggle watching women get hit like that.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Brendan Scannell Even the men in this film, you know, and it’s like ultimate fighting is the most violent one ever, we’re being told. And it felt like, oh, this is kind of like the same level of violence as Roadhouse. Yeah, right. In terms of like people having their faces smashed in.
Louis Virtel Yes. I also think this movie ends very light, like they tie it up like showing you the real life guy and in a way like he literally waves at the camera. I’m like, it’s like it’s like you just took the prestige out of this movie.
Brendan Scannell Yeah, the ending is strange for me. There is a moment where The Rock has this great wig on. The wigs are doing great work in this film. Emily Blunt has hair. And thank you A24. So The Rock had this wig, this jerry-curl situation that he used to have, and then halfway through, three quarters of the way, he shaves his head, and I went, oh, The Rock! Right. So then they give him a little goatee, and you’re like, oh he’s the character again.
Louis Virtel Yeah, there are qualities about him that he seems weirdly unrecognizable, even though it could be nobody else but The Rock in this movie.
Brendan Scannell I love that guy. Also, clothes on him, he does look like a little toddler. Yeah. Because the clothes are all clearly custom made and too big in strange ways because he’s so buff. Yeah, the clothes. I’m thinking the whole time about how the tailoring is working. Yeah. And even just the way he walks is a little bit…
Louis Virtel Like a kid trying to be serious. You work out a lot, right? Everyone’s a mom.
Brendan Scannell If you could look like that, would you want to? No.
Louis Virtel I like having my sinewy hard Sigourney body.
Brendan Scannell Okay. I don’t know if listeners are on your Close Friends, but if you’re not on Louis Virtel’s Close Friends you’re only getting half the story.
Louis Virtel This bitch. This bitch outing me?
Brendan Scannell I feel like I’m your aunt on their close friends, like you are posting great body pics and I’m just like, that’s my nephew and he’s fucking hot. You can cut that if you want, or don’t.
Louis Virtel I am the smashing machine, ultimately.
Brendan Scannell Smash me, daddy.
Louis Virtel It’s been a time with, my good friend, Brendan. I feel like this is a movie that’s gonna fade before Oscar season, though. I think the only chance it had would have been maybe an Emily Blunt supporting nomination, but ultimately, the character isn’t given enough to do it. It has one dramatic moment, ultimately, for her.
Brendan Scannell It does that uncut gem safty thing for me where I am stressed the whole time that something horrible is going to happen to this man. And I obviously don’t know anything about Mark Kerr. I’ll love to Mark. I just didn’t follow it when I was that age. So I was like, something bad’s gonna happen. Something bad’s going to happen. And then ultimately that stress kind of dissipates.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, you know what a recent movie about fighting that I did think deserved a little bit more love was? Did you see The Iron Claw with Zac Efron? I did not. Kind of for a similar reason, I struggle with these fighting films. And well, that was grim. That I heard was very grim. That has a sense of foreboding about it and boy does it live up to it. And then you also give Maura Tierney giving an enigmatic and memorable performance as an aloof mother, which hits me right in the core. I should check that out. Yeah. Zac Efran’s really good in it though. I felt bad that he didn’t get more kind of prestige clout from that. I’m still waiting for another great sports movie, but maybe Martis Supreme is it. We will see. Anyway, when we’re back, Brendan and I will get into our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. And now it’s time for our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Brendan, I have to say, this has never happened in the history of the show. You brought an affidavit or paper. Actually, you do need to sign this and we can’t be friends anymore. I- You brought, you have a very specific Keep It and I want you to get into it.
Brendan Scannell Okay, yeah, so I did write something because ultimately I am a straight-A student and that’s my trauma. This is going to be something you think you don’t care about, but you’re going to care about. It is a great time of year to be a sports fan. The WNBA finals are going, the MLB baseball is going, and the NBA is about to start. Hi, Luca! And it’s also football or whatever. And it is a good time for me as a gay guy who connects with his dad through sports to text my dad things like, Notre Dame is looking good this week! I love you! However, there is trouble in River City and it starts with G and it ends with online sports betting. In the past few years, the proliferation of sports betting has moved gambling from a taboo sideshow to the main event. Online sports betting is that they’re now partners with pro sports leagues sponsors of major sports podcasts and news, and huge revenue sources for media companies through apps like ESPN Bet. Since the 2018 Supreme Court case, Murphy versus the NCAA, paved the way for states to legalize sports betting, the number of states with sports books has grown from one, Nevada, or Nevada if you’re nasty, to 38 in 2014, and 94% of this betting is happening online. To play sports bets, you used to have to go to a casino or have a friend who looked like Sebastian Maniscalco, or best, Billy Zane. Hi Billy. And now you can do it from your toilet. And if you’re saying, oh, Brendan, you’re such a no-fun school mom, sports betting is just a little gag to spice up my Sundays. Well, sorry, that character. A study from the University of California San Diego’s Qualcomm Institute and School of Medicine revealed a dramatic increase in sports betting and gambling addiction help seekers since 2018. And the main target, you’re going to feel this deeply, straight men ages 18 to 35, which I know makes up 0% of your audience. Right. They’ve never heard of me. This is a straight guy PSA. Dudes are being inundated with advertisements daily, telling them that sports betting is a fun way to amp up the experience and connect with friends. Their Instagram ads are pushing gambling with promos like how mine push athletic shorts with photos of bulges. Is that what yours is? Oh, dang. What is that about? I know. And sometimes they’re AI, which is so depressing. And I’m like, I don’t want the shorts. I’m just looking at the bulge. Yeah. They got me. And then I’ll see friends in those shorts and I’ll be like, you saw the sports the shorts had, didn’t you? I didn’t yet. Our men, our straight guys are being sucked into the underworld, and this is a Taylor Swift thing. We need to Orpheus their Eurydice butts before it’s too late. And ladies, if you’re listening and you’re like, I don’t care about sports betting, that has nothing to do with me. Truth bomb, hitting them with a truth bomb. Your man is losing more money on sports betting than he’s telling you. If he has the DraftKings app on his phone, he’s not just putting $20 here or there. He’s opening up another credit card that’s going into that account. And because of that, he is throwing money down the drain that could be going towards your mortgage, your kid’s education, or a couple’s trip to Cabo where you meet a fun, wacky couple from Milwaukee and become lifelong swingers. And gay guys, if you’re like, this has nothing to do with me, sports betting, calling into question the fairness of everything from the Super Bowl to our Super Bowl, the 2026 Women’s Olympic Figure Skating Championships. Picture this, it’s 2026 and world champion, Alyssa Liu nails a perfect routine, gold medal coming home to America. When the scores come in, a few tenths of a point have been shaved off by the judge from Italy, a judge who has a million dollars on the line secretly through online sports betting. And who can blame him? He’s making way more money than I am. Gambling than he would judging this competition and as Fergie would say be Italian
Louis Virtel She’s always saying that, even outside that movie.
Brendan Scannell Have you met Fergie?
Louis Virtel Right.
Brendan Scannell I sat behind her in a Moschino show, and we had such a good connection, she and I. As Big Bat is turning casual fans into degenerate gamblers, online abuse directed at athletes has grown. According to Jeff Bezos’ Washington Post, college athletes are facing significant abuse amid a surge in harassment unleashed by America’s gambling boom. Students are subject to death threats, harassment, and demands of money. As if losers. Sports betting is negatively impacting athletes. It’s negatively impacting viewers of the show who are developing gambling addictions, and it’s negatively impacting the competition itself. The only people coming out on top are the stakeholders who are doing everything in their power to separate Americans from their money. In 2024, combined revenue from casino games, sports betting, and iGaming hit $66.52 billion. A 10% jump from the previous year’s record, and politicians are sitting back and raking in the contributions. The House always wins, and we’re getting fucked! Most soberingly, when a professional football team loses a game unexpectedly, studies show domestic violence rates can increase by 10% in the team’s home market. New research has found that this effect is amplified by 10 percentage point in states where sports betting is legalized. The opportunity cost of someone you love becoming a closet gambling addict can be your whole future. And people inside sports can’t say anything about this because now it’s their paycheck. Athletes can’t anything because they’re of what their employers would lose if they were to come out against sports betting. And so it falls on me, a gay guy who yeah doesn’t know what a parlay is and I’ll never find out. So sports betting online you can keep it.
Louis Virtel Oh my god, first of all, we thought Guy Branum last week was the definitive Keep It of all time. Who the fuck is Guy Branum? That was fabulously done. And also so treacherous. How could it be undone.
Brendan Scannell It’s really treacherous. I have so much addiction in my family, Irish Catholic mental illness, and the idea that they’re making this seem like a fun thing breaks my heart. And I love straight men. I love you so much. I care for you. I’ve been to three straight bachelor parties, and all of them. I had to stay at Circa, which is off strip, and it has the largest swim up sports book in the world. And I had to stay there. What this is impacting.
Louis Virtel Me personally and my vacations. You know, I have to say, I did sort of think the ongoing obsession with sports was ultimately pretty pure. You know that like people are, you know, like still little leaguers at heart and like still going out there and just wanting to see like the best people. But you’re right. It’s like this completely tainted, cynical and strange experience, a warped experience.
Brendan Scannell It’s taking something that really can connect you to your boys or your girls or your lesbians. Lesbians, are you sports gambling? Have I got news for you? It can connect to you two people. You know, I text my dad, Notre Dame’s doing great, Illinois is doing great. We’re talking about our teams. It can take something pure as a way for typically men to connect and men most often can’t connect with each other and taint it because it’s actually making you lose money. That makes me really sad.
Louis Virtel It is sad and very provocative. And, you know, you’re right, there’s just a whole web of corporate-ness in it and stakes for everybody involved. The idea that the players are tainted by it, it’s like…
Brendan Scannell Oh yeah, Pete Rose, famously, was banned from baseball for life for gambling. Players are gambling on every game they’re in, and there’s more investigations into players gambling. Malik Beasley was investigated for gambling, he was exonerated, somebody signed Malik. But yeah, it’s definitely going to impact the fairness of the game. And picture this, you’re like an Olympic rower, and you make… $10,000 a year rowing, and then on the side you work at Groupon and you’re salaried. You go to the rowing competition and you throw it, and you bet against yourself, and, and you make more money than you would ever make rowing.
Louis Virtel It’s fucked up. No, it’s like there’s a little Riyadh comedy festival lodged in every single-
Brendan Scannell Every single one of our phones, it’s fucked up, and nobody’s doing anything about it, and so it’s fallen on me, and Crooked Media.
Louis Virtel That’s right. Thank you so much for that. I am going to do a very short keep it. I’m sorry that was so long. It was fabulous. Please. No. Oh my God. No, I have something to think about, which as you know, I often don’t. My keep it this week goes to whatever the fuck is going on with Dolly Parton’s health. She released a statement about this. She canceled the residency she had coming up and she said, I want the fans in public to hear directly from me that unfortunately, I will need to postpone my upcoming Las Vegas concerts. As many of you know, I’ve been dealing with some health challenges. I did not know that. And my doctors tell me that I must have a few procedures. As I joke with them, it must be time for my 100,000 mile checkup. Although it’s not the usual trip to see my plastic surgeon. In all seriousness, given this, I am not going to be able to rehearse and put the show together that I want you to see and the show that you deserve to see. You pay good money to see me perform. I want to be at my best for you. The fuck is going on? What are a few procedures? I know she generally is pretty cagey with audiences. If she tells you what’s going on with her, it’s always sprinkled in with a few one-liners, you know, which is like her general showgirl, showbiz attitude.
Brendan Scannell Talk about someone whose personal life we don’t know about.
Louis Virtel Oh, no, excuse me, if I ever have children, they’re going to be raised in a progressive household where they know the tooth theory isn’t real and Dolly Parton’s husband isn’t real. Okay? That’s what’s happening. So the fact that she is being this upfront to me says something really is the matter. And it just is deeply frightening. I know she is a hardcore, maybe the most beloved entertainer we have. I still can’t shake the notion that she’s underrated for how much she has written for herself. You know, like. It seems like all people know is Jolene or I Will Always Love You, maybe they know Nine to Five. There are so many fabulous songs beyond that. So they’re so touching, like Bargain Store and Joshua and Here I Go Again. Here I go. Oh, one of the great songs, written by Cynthia Weil and Barry Mann, one the rare songs that she didn’t write for herself.
Brendan Scannell I love your brain.
Louis Virtel Yeah, the trio album with the trio albums with Emmylou Harris and Linda Ronstadt and go on and on and her fabulous performances in movies Even like the bad ones like best little whorehouse in Texas or rhinestone She’s great in nine to five one of the great films. Oh my god. Everybody is flawless in those movies The one-liners are popping. I got a movie that gets wacky. Yes Brendan, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for that fabulous keep but truly one for the books Where can people find you this weekend?
Brendan Scannell You can find me in a play called Big Bear at the Elysian Theater in Los Angeles. You can follow me on Instagram at Bscan. I’m also dabbling in TikTok at Brendan Scannell.
Louis Virtel I wonder if that will happen for me. I’ve avoided it so long and I feel like I do want to get on there and talk about old Hollywood but at the same time I know they’ve got that covered. So I’m exhausted already.
Brendan Scannell I could listen to you do anything.
Louis Virtel Oh ok.
Brendan Scannell And I think your fans could as well.
Louis Virtel All right, thank you. How nice of you. That’s our show. Thank you to the fabulous Jesse Williams for joining us today. And we’ll see you next week with more Keep It. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gajeski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
