Succession S4 Ep 4 + Yellowjackets S2 Ep 4 | Crooked Media
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April 19, 2023
X-Ray Vision
Succession S4 Ep 4 + Yellowjackets S2 Ep 4

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight wrangle a dead moose! In Market Moves (1:07) Jason and Rosie speedcap and analyze the latest in the Roy family saga in Succession season 4 episode 4. In the Airlock (35:13), they dive deep (deeep) into season 2 episode 4 of Yellowjackets, recapping and discussing Shauna and Callie, Walter and Misty, and many theories. Then in Nerd Out (1:13:10) they discuss a listener theory from Yellowjackets on Shauna’s baby.


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Nerd Out Submission Instructions!

Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it? If you’re sending a theory, feel free to send only a summary of your theory (no audio needed) for Jason and Rosie to react to on air.


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The Listener’s Guide to all things X-Ray Vision!

From Hell (1989-98) – A graphic novel by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell.


Jacob’s Ladder (1990) – Psychological horror film directed by Adrian Lyne and written by Bruce Joel Rubin. One of X-Ray’s newest sister podcasts – Ruined with Alison Leiby and Halle Kiefer, dedicated to all things horror – just covered the film. Check that episode out here






Jason Concepcion Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for season four Episode four of Succession on HBO, aka Max. Plus, Season two Episode four of Yellowjackets on the beleaguered Showtime Network. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion.


Rosie Knight And I’m Rosie Knight.


Jason Concepcion And welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked Media podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.


Rosie Knight In this episode, Market Moves, Baby.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight And the markets moving. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Sell, sell, sell, buy, buy, buy. Kendall the killer is back. It’s all going down. Succession Season four Episode four In The Airlock, stepping into that icy wilderness for Yellowjackets. Season two Episode four Shocking things are occurring as always, and in Nerd Out, a Yellowjackets theory from listener Cornelius.


Jason Concepcion Oh, you love to hear it. Up next, Market Moves. And so we’ve come to the end of the low. Good night, cannot read your note. Is Ken’s name crossed out? Is it underlined? This is Market Moves. That’s right. It’s Market Moves. Your number one source for economic success and coverage of Succession Season four Episode four titled Honeymoon States, directed by Lorene SCAFARIA, director of Hustlers and written by Jesse Armstrong, creator of the show, and Lucy Prebble. We open, Rosie.


Rosie Knight Whew.


Jason Concepcion On the day after Logan’s death due to pulmonary embolism, suffered whilst fishing his iPhone out of an airplane toilet, which means it is now.


Rosie Knight Classy.


Jason Concepcion What a classy way to go. For a classy guy. Which means it’s now time to scramble over the skeletal remains of his empire, end so up his outstanding affairs. The kids are dealing with this loss in different ways. Roman is fine. Just brush his teeth. Ken is is quietly shattered. Shiv, we learn, is pregnant. And unreal, which is unrelated to what is is going on in this in the current plot. But that’s obviously still a lot to deal with on top of everything else, Prop number one. First of all, shoutout to our good friend Haitch, over co-host of Doom Pod. His partner basically called that Shiv was pregnant. So a big we were right to Haitch and Haitch’s partner.


Rosie Knight We were right.


Jason Concepcion First prompt. It’s two parter. Prompt A: buy or sell the father of Shiv’s child. Is it Tom, her current husband? Soon to be ex-husband, we think. Is it Nate, her ex? She had an ongoing affair with while she was married to Tom. Is it the random guy she met at the bar after Willa’s disastrous Broadway play debut? Or literally, anybody could be anybody else. Remember, she pitched Tom on an open marriage on the night of their wedding. Rosie, I ask you, who is the father?


Rosie Knight Okay. I think it’s 50/50, Tom. That makes the most sense to me, especially because there might be some kind of IVF situation. Frozen embryos. They’ve had that conversation or. 50% that it’s like a donor that Shiv chose because she wants to a baby for Succession reasons and doesn’t want Tom involved. Let’s be real. Tom has been trying to climb the ladder of the Roy family, escape to absolute. He’s still trying very desperately. He would love. To have a Roy heir. So I don’t know if Shiv would want to make that choice. But like you said, this is a lot to deal with. And this I think this adds an interesting twist to the argument of Succession, because Kendall always seemed like a good guest simply because he had kids. So that continues the line. But Shiv now is pregnant, so that adds a little bit of competition there for the ongoing Roy line. Very interesting stuff. I did not see this one coming, but as you said, Haitch and his partner absolutely did.


Jason Concepcion A Roy of the blood is stirring in the womb of Shivon Roy. I will say I’m going to buy Tom is the father. I think it is the father. I think it’s a little too late to introduce some rando, although, you know, I did enjoy Nate’s slimey offerings to the delivery. And here is part part B of the prompt. So she was on the floor. Is Shiv sick? That’s the prompt. And here is the evidence to lay out for. Is Shiv on? Well, she’s on that call. And on that call to open the episode She she’s not finding out she was pregnant on this episode she appears to be finding out that something did not affect her current pregnancy. Her she’s still carrying the baby and therefore, whatever the call is about did not adversely affect her, her pregnancy. And then later in the episode, we see her trip and fall in a way that feels. Not just an opportunity to kind of add to her humiliation of being cut out of co-CEO. So I ask you now, is Shiv well? Do we think Shiv is well?


Rosie Knight I think Shiv is sick. I think your read on this is right. I couldn’t tell if the call she was getting was about them testing to see if the IVF or the embryos had worked. But on second watch, it definitely seems more like something didn’t negatively affect the baby. And she said, you know, it’s positive. The bait, the baby seems okay. I’m very interested to know, is Shiv sick? Is it something that is an ongoing illness, like an M.S.?


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Or something like that, or is it cancer? Shiv Definitely, there’s a lot of things she does during this episode that I think hint that she is sick and she’s trying to get what she can even in a really shitty situation. Yeah, so I’m very interested to see where this goes, especially as I think it was super producer Chris was talking about how Brian Cox did an interview where he said every episode of the rest of the season is just a day. So how much are we going to find out? And that makes sense. After we watched this yesterday, you know, one day later. So with, you know, six episodes left. So essentially a week. Yeah. What can we find out? But yeah, ship falling over they were definitely playing into. The men in those spaces are going to think she’s frail. But we know that’s absolutely not ship’s M.O. So that happening. It’s very much goes against the shell and the armor that she usually puts up in those spaces. So yeah, I think Shiv is sick sadly, I do not believe she as well.


Jason Concepcion Everyone gathers at Logan’s former Manhattan palazzo for the settling of the affairs. Plus, the board vote for interim CEO. The attendees include various conservative luminaries Colin Logan’s body Man in jeans, much to the shock of the children, a man who certainly looks a lot like former national security adviser under Donald Trump, John Bolton. He of the Let’s just bomb Iran right now statements GOP presidential candidate Mencken, who is a Nazi but we don’t actually see him but certainly is a Secret Service. Security shows up. Sandy Elder. Sandy the elder Sandy, the younger and Stewie and of course, Sandy the elder who we have not seen since he suffered a stroke. I believe it was a health setback that has left him that has either left him with a smile on his face or he is just so happy to be here at Logan’s wake. Sort of.


Rosie Knight He can’t believe he outlived him.


Jason Concepcion He cannot believe it. Also there, Marcia, Logan’s last official partner is there.


Rosie Knight That’s a big surprise.


Jason Concepcion Huge surprise. She is there. Of course, she would not miss this event. She casually drops that her and Logan have been phone sexing every evening.


Rosie Knight And talking every morning. He checks every plan over. This is such a shocking power play. It makes a lot of sense because why wouldn’t she turn up? But she turns up. She very, you know, conveniently reveals this secret that only she and Logan would know. And now Logan is dead. She’s in a house that she owns. Now that Logan is dead and she is just stone fucking cold.


Jason Concepcion She is a cold killer. She shouts to Willa for standing up for herself. So.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Jason Concepcion So Marcia makes this very pointed, like, look at how high you look at how far you’ve come, you know, referencing her, her marriage to to Connor. And of course she is a former escort and will defend herself is like, look, look at both of us. Look at how how far both of us have come. Good for you, Willa. In the meantime, Marsha manages to run Carrie over with a fucking bulldozer. Just drops her in a grave nearby. Logan Certainly not close enough that that she could see that she was buried with him, but only in the area. And then also manages with incredible haste to sell the Palazzo to Connor for some $63 million. Over the course of this day, two power centers emerge. There are the old folks, Karl, Frank and Jerry and the kids. The music has essentially stopped on this game of musical chairs, and everyone without a seat has various levels of fucked. That includes Tom, that includes Greg, that certainly includes Kerry, who is chased out of the building through the back door like weeping with stuff falling out of her back, saying, well, Logan  was going to make arrangements for me. Will somebody please check on it? And she is  fucked.


Rosie Knight Also basically telling Roman like we were going to get married.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Like this was going to happen. I need to find the proof. I need you, Roman, you know. Such a complex character, but in that scene has so much heart and empathy for Carrie.


Jason Concepcion He’s the one who who does why he really is. He’s a terrible human being, as they all are. But he is the one who he can’t. When he sees someone like in genuine distress, it offends him. He doesn’t like confrontation or conflict in it, and it really bothers him. He wants to see that everyone’s kind of like, okay. And it’s a really interesting side to to Roman. So Tom then pitches.


Rosie Knight He’s going to everyone like a car dealer. To every single person to try to sell himself.


Jason Concepcion He needs, he needs a, he needs a safe space. And so he pitches the old folks on himself as interim CEO. He it doesn’t go that well. Greg is out there kissing every cheek possible in order to find a safe place for him to be. And then, meanwhile, of course, the Gojo deal is hanging over everything. And Luke’s Maxson appears to be kind of steamed at the kids after they left him on dial. Basically, while they kind of figured out it was a power move. But then they went on to say it wasn’t a power move.


Rosie Knight That was the stupidest and probably most impactful decision. This episode of many stupid and impactful decisions instead of just letting Roman pick up the phone.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Connor Oh, Kendall No, no, no. We don’t need to just. Just let it ring out. And then they’re in this kind of hilarious farce now where they’re going to have to prove to Madison that they need to. And, you know, they talk about they got to be there in 24 hours for that retreat. So I’m assuming we’re going to get to see that next episode, which I would absolutely love, because Madison is high.


Jason Concepcion He Oh.


Rosie Knight He’s just wild.


Jason Concepcion Prompt number two, real recognize real estate. How much of Connor’s wealth is left after buying this house? Willa seemed a little concerned at the price tag. And recall, we have seen Connor, the child of Logan’s first wife, not his more beloved second wife, where, you know, Shiv, Ken and Roman come from. And it has been intimated before that he doesn’t have as much of a stake in the family business or maybe any stake in the family business like the other kids. And also, we’ve seen him in the past, most notably during Will, as a Broadway play begging for money from Logan. How much money does Connor have left after spending $63 million on the plot? He was also very worried about the taxes, which I get. I guess I get.


Rosie Knight I don’t think he has enough money to buy the house.


Jason Concepcion At all.


Rosie Knight I think he needs to GoJo deal to go through. Do you remember at karaoke how fucking scared he was that the deal wasn’t going to go through?


Jason Concepcion Oh that’s true.


Rosie Knight And then he called Logan and he snitched on them.


Jason Concepcion That’s right.


Rosie Knight And one, nobody needs 63 million for house. Two, that house is ugly as fuck.


Jason Concepcion It is.


Rosie Knight Three, I understand why Conor wants it. Because it’s an ultimate fuck you to Logan.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Four, Marcia is a true G because she she did not. She was not going to get that money from anywhere else right now in the housing market.


Jason Concepcion She wasted zero time. She’s like, I’m going to be looking for 60 to 70 million for it. And he’s like 63 and she’s like, good. Done spits on her hand and is like, let’s go.


Rosie Knight So I think this would either wipe Conor out or he actually might not have the liquidity to do it. And he’s going to be become very interested in the deal.


Jason Concepcion He’s got to sell stuff like he’s got to sell the cars, he’s got to sell the hyper decanting machine, he’s got to sell Napoleon’s a dick. He’s got to sell like the Josephine letter.


Rosie Knight It’s a Connor yard sale is going to be happening outside the Palazzo.


Jason Concepcion I absolutely agree. I think Connor. I’m going to say that Connor is worth 50 million and that he needs and I’m an illiquid 50 million and that he’s got to move stuff around. Plus get that Gogo money to go through in order for him to truly and finally and irrevocably purchase this Palazzo Manhattan palazzo that Willa is going to tear up the second they get into it. Whatever the game plan is here on this day is swiftly thrown into chaos when Frank, the executor of Logan’s estate, discovers an undated piece of paper at Logan’s private safe, now indicating that at one time Logan wanted Ken to be CEO. And then. At some other time, he either underlined can. Or crossed his name out. What do we do here, folks? The old folks, Karl and Frank briefly discuss. Hey, we could just. You know, something could just happen to it. This piece of paper. What if it got lost?


Rosie Knight I’m with Karl on that. I have  to say.


Jason Concepcion I think it would be terrible if it was lost. But what if it was all of a sudden?


Rosie Knight He’s like, what if your hand just slipped?


Jason Concepcion What if it shook? And then a gust of wind took it and it flew away? And then Jerry comes in is like, What are you guys up to in there? Like, we were just kind of like, happily discussing this piece of paper that here says that can either is or isn’t Logan’s final wish as CEO. And we were wondering like, gosh, what if this paper just fell in the toilet? And then she says, Oh, that’s very funny. P.S. I’m general counsel, so I can’t play games like this. Prompt number three.  How would you, Rosie Knight, speculating in a comic mode, a humorous vein. Suggest getting rid of important legal documents. How would you do it in a in a funny way. Pitch me on. Let’s get rid of these papers that are very, very important and germane to the conversation that are ongoing and relate to that very, very strongly relate to Ken’s interest in something. And how do we get rid of these papers? You pitch me on it. We got to get rid of them.


Rosie Knight I would love to have seen. I’m with Karl on this one. I have to say, this is just a hot mess. I think you just ignore this. I would have loved Cal is already. He’s flipped over it, Tom. He’s at the end of his tether. His chill nature is leaving. He’s always had a good, cool front. But it’s going. He wants his fucking golden parachute.


Jason Concepcion He needs his money because he.


Rosie Knight He needs his money.


Jason Concepcion Buying a Greek island with his brother in law and he need money.


Rosie Knight Come on. This is reliable troubles. So what I would have loved to see. I would have loved to see him just rip it in half and just start eating it. Him and Frank, just eating it.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. So.


Rosie Knight I mean, how funny  would that have been? How good.


Jason Concepcion So, Rosie, it’s you and me, and we’re standing there and we’ve got the paper. What would you say to me? You want me to get rid of the paper? You you certainly don’t want to do it yourself. You want me to make the decision to eat the paper? How would you tell me to do it?


Rosie Knight I think I would. I would actually just. I’d take a little bit of a corner to see if you were feeling like I. Terranova offered me and, like, give you the eyebrows. Like the wiggle eyebrows.


Jason Concepcion Like, what about this?


Rosie Knight And and then, you know, it’s all about the money. I just say, look, if these don’t if this paper doesn’t exist, we’re in a much better state. And I don’t I mean, I think this is the biggest argument that they failed on here is like these kids are fucking idiots like Tom says, Tom is the only one who’s real. You don’t want them involved. Yeah, the paper is gone in my opinion. I’m on Karl’s side. I’m all for getting rid of the paper. It’s time the kids idiots. What would you do?


Jason Concepcion Here’s me pitching. I would also. I mean. The thing is, if you get rid of it, you can never speak of it again. And it has to be gone forever gone. And it’s a risk. Of course it’s a risk. Legally, you’d be exposed like the lawsuits stemming from this would be just it would cripple you. I don’t care how rich you are. And certainly Frank and Karl are not cut from the same cloth. Despite the fact that Karl is buying an island. He’s co buying an island. It comes from the name. Yeah. Cut from the same wealth cloth as the kids. So I would heavily lean towards getting rid of it, but I wouldn’t want to get rid of it myself. And if you were holding the paper as the executor of Logan’s will, here is how I would I would picture I’d say, Rosie, it’s a very interesting piece of paper. Let’s look at it over here by the window in the light. Oh, gosh. It’s a windy day. What if you. What if you. What if you just. What if your hands just suddenly got weak? You know, the wind is blowing so strongly up here on the seventh or eighth or 10th or whatever floor of this gigantic mansion on the Upper East Side. And we all know how the the canyons of New York create these wind tunnels. What do you what if you just let go of it now? What if you just let go of that paper and it just flew away? It would be it would be obviously, I think, a tragedy and it would and it would rob the the Roy siblings of some of the context of their father’s wishes in his final weeks, months date. It’s undated. Once again, we have to say that it’s undated but but yeah, but and that would be a tragedy. But to be What if it happened? It could happen.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion That’s how I would do it.


Rosie Knight I think you’re on the right track because once it leaves that room, like if somebody did find it.


Jason Concepcion What does it even mean? It doesn’t mean anything.


Rosie Knight It’s nothing. Oh, somebody just made that, you know, But that Internet cafe, no one’s going to care. I like that. I also think, you know, the old. Oh, no, I put it here next to my ashtray with my cigar in it. You know, burn that shit. Oh, no. And it’s gone basically many inventive ways and I think they went about this the worst possible way, but the best possible way for unnecessary drama, which is what absolutely instills.


Jason Concepcion Well, the paper is then revealed and chaos immediately ensues. First of all, can the kids are like, well, I wonder if this changes anything. And certainly Ken says, Well, I think it does because my name is on on the paper. And she was like, Yeah, but is it crossed out or is what is she closing it out? Is the underlining like I’m not saying it to be a jerk, but like legitimately the line goes through your name kind of for at least 40% of your name, you know, space wise, Ken and Roman eventually coalesce around a structure that they think makes sense. Now. They were both cc0o at one time, and that is kind of like the necessary, according to the bylaws, the next person up for interim CEO. And in the event that something happens to the CEO, so be weird. They both say if if we didn’t both step up as co interim CEO and you know with this paper in hand certainly it seems like we have our father is okay to go ahead and do that. Now, Shiv is like, well, what about me? What a what if we do a triarchy? We do three of us. And they’re like, Oh, that feels kind of weird, doesn’t it? Like three people feels a little too much. But I’ll say, but and honestly, I do think they have a point in that she was never work there. Now she okay, now I did do such and such project for Dad when I came in briefly and blah blah blah. But that as Ken notes pointedly but I think fairly was make Daddy was like me busy work for Daddy and it wasn’t really working there as Ken and Roman both had. And so they both decide that Shiv is officially out but will be unofficially in as in everything that they decide she will be involved in. This of course is absolute bullshit and they’re going to get out at the earliest possible can mean she will be shoved over but her and her unborn child, we walk down the Ganga like she will go into the waters and sink below the waters and never be seen again. The board then votes. And guess what? Ken and Roman ascend the mountaintop for the interim as co-CEO. He though and Carolina then raise the issue now that the two boys are in the in the driver’s seat of a statement. And here’s the two options. We go positive. We burnish Logan’s, you know, Coffin and his reputation. And we say what a legend he was and how his empire is in safe hands with the Roy Boys who are going to do just exactly what Logan wanted to do and would have done had he been alive or, you know, not in a not in a mean way, but maybe we go negative and we say, Hey, Logan was fucking his assistant. He was a piece of shit. He covered up all the crews, sexual assaults, all that kind of stuff. He was slipping, peed his pants, couldn’t walk back to the house when we were over in Montauk pitching. What’s his name? It was slipping, you know, various health concerns. And therefore, here is a new vital age with youth and vigor and strength at the helm. And we’re going to chart a brand new course. What do you say The kids basically say, let’s not piss on our father’s memory and let’s go positive. Then Ken goes over to Hugo by himself, pulls Hugo aside and says, Hey, remember that thing in the cold open where I walk past you? And I heard you arguing with a person that turned out to be your daughter, Juliet. And what occurred was you leaked the news that Logan was dead to your daughter, who you say you never speak to, but apparently you spoke to on this day. And then she went and did some insider trading selling Waystar stock before the news broke, thereby avoiding losing a bunch of money. What if I go to the FCC with that? Or you could go negative and you’re not going to tell Roman. You’re not going to tell Caroline that you’re just going to do it on your own and you’re just going to fucking eat that shit. And Hugo’s like, I guess I will. Prompt number four, Rosie, the Ken document underlined or crossed out?


Rosie Knight It’s crossed out. I’m a full, crossed out believer. Look, we know how Logan felt. I love this choice and I love what they’ve done with this season, which is basically just taking us back four years, taking us back to the beginning. As Frank says, Logan did want Kendall to succeed him at some point.


Jason Concepcion At certain points.


Rosie Knight Certain points it’s happened. It was kind of like that in the first season. That’s what we thought. That’s what Kendall thought. But I believe that was crossed out 100%. Whoever wrote that line on that paper. Give them the award.


Jason Concepcion It’s so good.


Rosie Knight Because it is so well done. But yeah, I am a crossed out believer. I think that ironically, Logan would be incredibly happy with the way that Kendall is behaving in all of this. And though Kendall has basically become the monster that Logan always wanted him to be.


Jason Concepcion I agree with you. I think that when Ken says it’s what Dad would have done, he’s won, Right? It’s exactly what Logan would have done. And too, he’s also. He’s also, you know, separating himself from the actual decision in a way that allows him to kind of like soothe his own guilt over this really shitty thing. These in. Well, dad would have done it, therefore, it’s okay, because who can blame me? Because my dad would’ve done the same thing. And and he is right. But again, I think that he probably feels significantly guilty about this. And I think you’re absolutely right. And I think can on a certain level, despite his bluster. Probably suspects that it was a cross out. I mean. Again.


Rosie Knight We see him looking at it on the phone.


Jason Concepcion Doesn’t go through the whole name, but it goes through like three or four letters of the like.


Rosie Knight It goes through enough of it.


Jason Concepcion And comes up at it. Yeah. Like certainly like looks like a quick cross out that goes that partially goes under the name. Now, that’s why when you’re really cross it out, you really just scribble and you just go for it.


Rosie Knight But if you’re going to underline it, you start lower. So this doesn’t happen.


Jason Concepcion But listen, I think we’ve seen this. We know enough about Logan to know that though he was a very tough guy, though. He was a very you know, he was a dictator. And when he made a decision, he was going to double down, triple down, quadruple down on the decision. He also. You know. You know, very strangely changed his mind a lot and particularly about CEO. He did want Ken to run it for a period of time, although he didn’t think Ken was necessarily tough enough and put Ken through the ringer. He wanted Roman to run it and said that for for a while and put Roman through his paces and even put him on the early rungs of the ladder to run it, he told Shiv flat out. I want it to be you. It’s you. I want you to run to the point that Shiv said, you know, Is this real? Is this real? Because, you know, that’s Logan’s way. He dangles something. He pulls it away, I think, at And when he drafted the document, the original document, I think he probably did want Ken to be CEO. And I think when he crossed it out, he didn’t want to be CEO.


Rosie Knight Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. Let me ask you one more question, because I think when do you think the document is from? I think it’s. From the first season. Because one of the.


Jason Concepcion I think it’s from the first seasons.


Rosie Knight One of my favorite things about it is on the document he just wrote Greg question mark. Now, Greg was like, oh, this, this is because he wants me to be Kendall’s number two, whatever. Everyone’s like, Nice try. I like to think it right. Greg just just showed that.


Jason Concepcion Frank just laughed at that.


Rosie Knight Good job. Yeah, Nice try. I like to think that Logan wrote that like in the, the timeline of the first episode where he he’s just like Greg like who the fuck is that? Because he just hired.


Jason Concepcion Greg. Question Mark Who?


Rosie Knight Who?


Jason Concepcion I think that that’s probably right. And I think that when he crossed it out, I also think it’s a cross out. I think he crossed it out.


Rosie Knight Hm mm.


Jason Concepcion And I think he crossed it. I think he crossed it out when Ken killed the guy. When Ken killed the waiter.


Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


Jason Concepcion Like, well, I killed the waiter.


Rosie Knight He’s, like a fucking. Yeah, he’s at that point, he’s just a reckless risk for your business.


Jason Concepcion I found the the scene. You know, any time with these characters, they’re like spiders in a jar with nothing to eat but each other. And so whenever there’s, like, a moment of kindness or gratitude, it. Is you just see it and you notice it and it lands. With incredible strength and power. And there was that moment where, you know, like Ken has betrayed slash, backstabbed, slash, undercut, slash left Stewie, his former college friend, like, hanging a million times. Now, formally recall, Stu is going to back Ken for a hostile takeover, the the infamous bear hug to take over the company and they were going to seize power from Logan. But then, because Ken killed the guy. He couldn’t do any more because as he says to to Stewie in this scene, he says there was no card he was going to play against me. AKA My dad was basically going to tell the world that I killed the guy and that I was going to be screwed. But then they so they have this back and forth and Stewie makes it very funny. Stewie kind of burne about how, Oh, I heard Logan died when he saw your he died choking when he saw your business plan. Pierce But then they, then they embrace and it’s like, you know, you could tell they can really needed it. That was such a such a strong moment.


Rosie Knight Yeah. This. They’ve been doing a great job of that this season. There’s also the moment that really stood out to me, this episode, which is like extra heartbreaking because of what goes on to happen once the paper is found. But when Ken, Rome, and Shiv are reading the obits about their dad and they’re like translating what it means to they’ll be like a man of his era and they’re like, he was a racist.


Jason Concepcion Racist.


Rosie Knight And then there’s this, like, absolute bonding and love and kind of laughter and lightness. That we never get to see them share. And it’s that moment of solidarity of what they’ve done, how they kind of beat Logan in the end, how he died. And then obviously, Logan manages to fuck it up beyond the grave with some doodles. But I love that. Yeah, those two moments really stood out to me because when same with Rome being nice to Carrie.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. That was such a


Rosie Knight Slight.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Kind of. Also, Rome was very upset by the PR plan to like shit on, you know, Logan.


Jason Concepcion He hated it. He does not like conflict.


Rosie Knight He doesn’t like it. Which is ironic because he has arguably more reason him and Connor, I would say, are up there for like, people that Logan treated the worst.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight I wonder if that softness and that kind of emotionality that we see with Kerry that we see there in that moment, how is that going to affect him? And can I actually think Shiv is better off not being involved because I think Kendall is going to absolutely destroy Roman in pursuit for this power.


Jason Concepcion I agree with you. I think what we’re seeing is much like a Sith Lord rule of the rule of two. I think we’re seeing Ken step into the cape of his evil father here, especially with the moves he made at the end in the way he just instinctively cuts Roman and of course shiv out of this decision towards the end. I will say that one thing, you know, thinking about again, that that moment with Roman and Carrie. He reminds me of, you know, one of my other favorite shows, Mad Men, Pete Campbell from Mad Men, who was a piece of shit, you know, sexual assault or was out like hitting on teenage nannies that his neighbor had but was also like, strangely, the guy who would, like, go at his coworkers for being racist about stuff. Mhm. And you know, got absolutely up in arms when someone said something disparaging about Martin Luther King and didn’t understand why nobody wanted to sell products to the black market. Very, very, very conflicting guy. And I know that with Roman the way it’s like he’s conflict averse, but also like an absolutely horrendous person whose politics probably hew pretty closely to Mencken the Nazi.


Rosie Knight Mhm. Yeah. But there’s some kind of moral compass, like a fucked up moral compass he has.


Jason Concepcion On like a 1 to 1 basis. But then he’s also the guy who like offered like a child like $1,000,000. Remember, like if the kid during the softball game at the very first episode of the show. So he’s just a very, very strange guy. What an incredible season of Succession this fools. I wish we had another. I wish there was another season. I wish I wish it was not ending. Stay tuned for more Market Moves in your podcast feed. Do you want to be wealthy like us? Do you want to? Yeah. You want to get ahead like us? Do you want to be successful like us? Do you want to be climbing a ladder made of the skulls of the people who dared bet against you in life, in your personal life, in your in your career? All of it. Do you want to just like, be ripping spines of your enemies out and then eating their eyeballs out? And all the while commas and end and digits are just increasing in your bank accounts all the time. Listen to  Market Moves.


Rosie Knight Stock stocks, stocks.


Jason Concepcion Stocks, bonds, trading. Listen to it all Market Moves every Wednesday. Up next, Yellowjackets.


Speaker 1 <AD>


Rosie Knight We’re stepping out of The Airlock and into Yellowjackets. Season two Episode four.


Jason Concepcion Let’s go.


Rosie Knight Almost halfway through the season, then things are getting absolutely wild. This episode is called Old Wounds was directed by Scott Winant and written by Julia Bicknell and Liz Fang in the nineties wilderness. It’s chilly, it’s cold.


Jason Concepcion It’s cold.


Rosie Knight It’s snowy, and Tai and Van are out in the woods. Seems like a bad idea, but sure, they have a mission. They are marketing the trees. That Nighttime Tai has been leading them to. Van wants Tai to tell Lottie she’s still on that kind of trip. She wants her to tell Lottie so the lawyer can work out what Tai’s supernatural connection to the forest is. But Tai is having none of it. She’s still very firmly on team logic at this point. Probably should have listened to Van because in the modern day we see that Tai is watching Nighttime Tai go through other things. She’s in a strange kind of pseudo comatose state where she can’t stop Nighttime Tai, but she’s seeing her, and then boom, she wakes up. She’s out of gas in a car or her assistant’s car, I actually believe, in a rural roadside space next to a forest. And all that she has in the car is a file next to her that says Yellowjackets.


Jason Concepcion Dun, dun, dun.


Rosie Knight Dun, dun dun. Things are not going well for Tai basically. Get help, babe.


Jason Concepcion I, we, I. Seek help expeditiously. I beg you. You cannot go another half day like this. You’re losing time every two or 3 hours. This is not tenable. It’s not. It’s not good. You better not keep doing this.


Rosie Knight The only time I’ve ever seen this happen, someone on a fictional TV show was Hannibal. And Hannibal Lecter was literally manipulating Will Graham to make this happen to him. So the fact this is happening without Hannibal Lecter doing it, it’s going badly for you. Also going badly. Shauna and Jeff, they’re arguing because.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight You know, as we know, Callie told the cops that her mom was having an affair with Adam. They don’t know it was Callie yet, but we do. And Jeff’s not happy about it. Nat is having a rather good time at the wellness camp. It’s strange. She wants to. She wants to find out Lottie’s secrets and discover what’s happening with Travis, what she did to him. But she is bonding with Lisa, who was the young girl that we met who was.


Jason Concepcion This is a nice little pairing.


Rosie Knight I’m a fan.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight There is a there is a true kindness here. And Lisa has a lot of empathy for Natalie. So that going on, they’re going to go on a road trip today. Lots of road tripping going on this episode. Speaking of road trips, Misty, she is still very worried about Nat. And basically all of her friends have forgotten about her. Shaun is wrapped up in, you know, doing a murder. Tai is, has multiple personalities, one of whom only wakes up at nighttime and Natalie has been kidnaped and is a Colt. So Misty really wants to find out what’s going on. And she’s teaming up with Walter to go on the second road trip this episode so that she can find out where Nat is and follow the purple people to what we will what we know is Lottie’s compound. But she is still trying to work walk out. Misty’s calling everyone up. Her sociopathic tendencies are coming out. She’s calling everyone. She’s leaving them voice notes. But Walter, who is forever positive, is like, well it’s pretty rare to have a friend who relentlessly has your back.


Jason Concepcion He loves her. He loves her.


Rosie Knight You are lucky he loves her. Then he’s like, Why don’t we put on some music? And all he has is musicals. And Misty freaks out. She’s like, Fuck you. You are a stalker. You love the Yellowjackets. I’m your favorite. I’m flattered, but, like, why are you doing this? I have no time for this. I’m out. And he’s like, No, no, I just love musicals. I actually don’t care about Yellowjackets.


Jason Concepcion I.


Rosie Knight Or the crash.


Jason Concepcion I don’t. I think that there’s something going on, obviously, and I think. He does. As we said in the previous episode, I think he doth protest a little too much. That said, the I’m skipping ahead a little bit, but when they that side by side sequence where we see Misty and Walter kind of both going through their same OCD paranoia routines of like checking their hotel room for bugs and and using a black line, doing all the stuff, unscrewing the lamps. Everything led me to feel like. I think you only do that if there is something while he is hiding something. I think I think there is something innocent ish about what he’s doing.


Rosie Knight I think he’s looking for a kindred spirit. And I did believe this could just be Elijah Wood’s incredible acting. He’s so good in this role. But I did believe him when he said he didn’t care. He was like, that was 30 years ago. He didn’t even get the number right. He’s like, That’s irrelevant to me. I care about new crimes and really, I just want to work with you because you’re a famous true crime detective on the red wards. So, you know, those two, they’re doing nothing. Interestingly, we get this. They put on, you know, a musical number, and then we jump back to the nineties and we see Crystal and Misty singing that same song.


Jason Concepcion Mm hmm.


Rosie Knight And those two are obviously just getting incredibly close. It’s very cute. It’s very positive for Misty. Shauna is not feeling positive. She’s accusing the crew of stealing meat. Mari is then like, well, it was probably Coach Ben. And Coach Ben’s like, well you know.


Jason Concepcion Alarming.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Yeah. I always thought he was like, Fuck you. Like, what would you do about it? Like, he’s trying to get. He’s really trying to become dinner. I truly believe it.


Jason Concepcion But also, like, I think he makes a great point, which is like, what am I going to hobble out to the meat shed and carry the like, I’m on crutches. I have I have one leg. How am I going to carry the meat? But like, how am I going to do all that?


Rosie Knight He makes that good point. But then he does follow up by saying like, What are you going to do, eat me?


Jason Concepcion I mean, it’s a it’s a pressing concern. And I. I do wonder if they won’t eat him.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I think they’re going to eat him. He’s he’s on my. If I was if I was doing a ranking list of most likely to be snacked on in Yellowjackets, he would be number one. Nat tries to cool it down and sort of says look I’m I’m just trying to help everyone survive. Mari turns on Nat and is like you are the reason this is all a problem because you won’t drink Lottie’s blood tea. You won’t let her bless you. And Nat says very pointedly and very truthfully, like me and Travis, are the only one who actually do any hunting.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Everything that’s happened with Lottie is just a coincidence. They don’t believe it. And in one of the stupidest choices in the situation, but one of the smartest and most realistic teenage narrative choices they make in this, they decide that they’re going to do a game where Nat is going to go out and hunt Lottie’s going to go out without a gun, without.


Jason Concepcion She’s just going to wander around.


Rosie Knight She doesn’t need it. And it’s a very interesting set up because we kind of see how Lottie is almost she is not the leader that we kind of thought she was. She’s almost unintentionally being pushed into this position because of these visions that she’s had, because of these things that she’s seen. And the girls are putting her on this pedestal. And not only that, but they’re not giving her equal footing. So she heads off. Nat has a gun and Lottie has nothing other than, you know, blood magic.


Jason Concepcion If I was Nat, I would be like, Am I going insane?


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion We’re the ones who go out with the gun and shoot the thing and come back. Lottie is just sitting here. Even.


Rosie Knight I would be so pissed.


Jason Concepcion I would be so mad. I’d be like, You guys are fucking insane. You do it. Then you go fucking. You go get some rest. Why don’t you have Lottie bless you, and then you go out and find some meat then if she makes it so easy, it’s all about Lottie.


Rosie Knight She’s like, Look, you all just sit in here on your asses all day doing nothing. And me and Travis are out there hunting like it’s ridiculous. I will say very interesting because we kind of see Nat’s logical team. Gaining a little bit of ground as the episode goes on and it feels like, oh, maybe they’re going back to reality and then we get this kind of bonkers final 5 minutes that totally turns things upside down. So Natalie and her new friend Lisa are off on another road trip. They’re heading off to sell some honey that the cult makes. Remember from those bloody beehives where Lottie thought that she all her bees were murdered. And we had a spooky voice that said. He wants blood, in French. Very scary stuff. No blood in this, honey, but they’re going off to sell it back. It’s very interesting because Natalie, the rebel that she is, she really wants to help Lisa and she’s trying to scope out whether or not there is something dodgy going on here. Lisa claims there’s not rules and you can do whatever you want. But when Lisa goes with other members of the wellness community, she’s not allowed to see her family. Sounds like a cult to me.


Jason Concepcion I mean, it sounds very explicitly like a cult.


Rosie Knight Is explicitly like a cult. So Nat says we’re going to see your mom. They go see the mom and Lisa claims it’s because she wants to see how fish she is called the 14th ghillie. And he’s very cute. But there’s clearly some underlying issues here. And Natalie can’t help but get a little bit involved.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, the mom sucks quite a bit.


Rosie Knight Mom sucks.


Jason Concepcion The mom sucks, really sucks.


Rosie Knight And I think they do a great twist because you when you go there, she seems to be supportive, but as the conversation goes on, she starts doing some really explicitly horrible things, especially for people who have mental health issues. While Lottie told Nat and Lisa, Well, I can’t come with you. I’ve got to go to the bank. She’s actually at the psychiatrist. Asking her meds because she doesn’t want to have the visions, which I think is very telling. Yes, it proves that whatever is going on with her wellness community, at least as far as we know and as she seems to know, and that she has a nighttime Lottie type situation going on. The visions are not involved in the cult. She doesn’t want them. She wants them to go away and she’s willing to up her meds to do so. Her normal psychiatrist is not there. I think if you want to play into that, is there a bigger cult situation going on? The other people are controlling. You could make a lot of argument for this. But I like her new doctor. Her new doctor has an idea. She says, what if you just stop trying to repress these visions?


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight And actually ask what they might be telling you?


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight This is actual therapy. She’s like, yes, maybe the fact that you’ve been institutionalized since you were a kid, since this really traumatic thing happened with you and they’ve drugged you to stop you thinking about this, maybe you should have a conversation about what the visions are and what’s going on before we up your dosage and what it’s like. Well, what could they tell me? They’re not real.


Jason Concepcion That was.


Rosie Knight I think that’s a really interesting moment.


Jason Concepcion That was the moment where I realized that. They’ve done something very interesting, which is set up, Lottie, to be a lot more ominous figure and then subverted that and let you know that whatever is going lady is. A victim of it as well, a passenger to it. Yes, he is. Some, at some point in the past come to the realization that her visions. Perhaps because there’s too troubling or too violent or whatever are not. Messages are not prophecies are not real. And she just really just wants them at this point to stop. But has also somehow managed to kind of parlay the mystique around. Yeah. To having. I mean, I’ll just still I’m still calling it a cult. And to be able to kind of like attract people to her. And form this cult like organization.


Rosie Knight And you’re right, she definitely is using the notoriety of what happened. I mean, she has these they make honey. People. The fact that Natalie knows her. We haven’t had anyone who’s explicitly asked Nat about their past, but the fact that Nat knows her makes her notorious in the group like there’s almost a celebrity to it. And I doubt that there’s anyone there who doesn’t know what Lottie went through. So I think that’s a really good read. It’s like she’s someone who’s been in a shit situation who’s kind of parlayed it. Into stability and success and wealth. But is it at the cost of other people in this kind of dangerous cult sector?


Jason Concepcion X-ray vision will be back.


Speaker 4 <AD>


Jason Concepcion And we’re back.


Rosie Knight Shauna, Shauna, Shauna.


Jason Concepcion This, this and this. This moment is. Listen, I’m all for telling the truth. I’m all for telling your family per se what’s going on with you and letting them in and letting them into your anxieties and. But this choice that Shauna makes, you could not get this out of me. By waterboarding. There’s no way. Any way.


Rosie Knight Doesn’t matter. Torture. Never going to happen.


Jason Concepcion No.


Rosie Knight Shauna, after a great kind of suburban mom interaction that I think most of all parents probably had, where she thanks the friend of Callie’s, you know, the parent of Callie’s friend. And she says, oh, thanks for having Callie over. I should stop paying you because she’s there so much. And the friend’s mom says, oh, no, Callie hasn’t been there. And it all starts to click into place. Callie’s lying to Shauna. Shauna decides she’s going to investigate Callie’s room. Callie is truly her mom’s daughter because she just left Adam’s burn license in her dresser, not hidden, not worried about it. And in a truly extreme Shauna moment that I loved because I really did not like, Bless Melanie Lynskey, I did not know which route she was going to go. I mean, Shauna just picks up her daughter, drives her into a fucking cornfield, like she’s going to do a mob hit on her. But then, as you alluded to, confesses everything and.


Jason Concepcion Confesses flat out murder to her daughter who is actively speaking to the police right now.


Rosie Knight Like literally she is dating and texting a cop who is still pretending not to be a cop, which I think probably makes most of this in inadmissible. But there’s probably some kind of blurry lines there. But also, Callie is cursed.


Jason Concepcion If you’re a cop you have to tell me that’s the rule.


Rosie Knight Yeah. If you if you’re a cop, you have to tell me why didn’t Callie ask him. You may know the rule, but like Callie, at what point has she ever proven to you that she is loyal, has solidarity, or any sense of smarts? Like, what made you do this?


Jason Concepcion I’ll tell you what made, what made her do this. It is that thing that we talked about in a previous episode, which is that Shauna her the driving.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Jason Concepcion Force of her personality is that she wants to destroy her life. She.


Rosie Knight I absolutely thought of you when I watched this.


Jason Concepcion She doesn’t like what her life is. She’s bored by it. She finds it unexciting. She wants something else. She wants something more dangerous. And she will actively work against her own interests to destroy her life bit by bit. And so here she’s doing again.


Rosie Knight Yeah, you know, it’s the new blow up my life.


Jason Concepcion It’s a new. It’s just like another risk to take. Here’s an so I’ve already committed a murder and I’ve covered it up and then I, and then I went and destroyed evidence. Kind of. Not really. And also, while I was there, destroying evidence, I had sex with my husband there, leaving certainly more trace evidence that any medical examiner could find. And now, because that’s not enough risk to fully destroy my life, because now my husband and I are kind of getting along now. What I need to do now is confess to my daughter, who is actively in a relationship with a cop that I killed, the guy that they’re looking for, that they’re trying to solve his murder. Shauna.


Rosie Knight Go do it.


Jason Concepcion I mean, it makes sense in this most in a demented way, but it’s also, like, so crazy.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Also, like it shows how disconnected Shauna is from reality at this point. Because she just tries to play it off so casual. And Callie’s just, like, freaking. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I did it. And Callie’s like, What the fuck you mad at someone? And Shauna is like, Well, yeah. And she’s like, I knew Dad didn’t have anything to do with this. And she’s like, Well, your dad was the blackmailer at the time of the reason this happens. And as Jeff will rightfully point out, like, say, you just made your daughter a murder accomplice, so.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Just terrible.


Rosie Knight Yep. Yeah, just suburban psychopaths, those two. So speaking of people with sociopathic tendencies, Misty and Walter make it clear some useful info from a diner worker who tells them that the cult do not tip well. Boo, to that cult because they have a lot of money now and more money. She tells them why they sell honey at a farmers market. You can head over there and in what I like to call a very Game of Thrones moment, they go to the farmer’s market and you’re like, Wow, they she’s going to find Natalie. But obviously Natalie and Lisa never made it. And you’re sort of like, Oh no. Why would that happen? Sorry to Misty. She’s very upset. In the wilderness, things are going badly. Mari is hearing our Lady Macbeth dripping. Lottie decides the only way she can find some meat is to commit blood Magic cutting open her hand, not actually finds that giant white moose in a lake. Is it the moose from last episode that was maybe not real Is real Was a ghost of this moose?


Jason Concepcion Yeah, something like that.


Rosie Knight Unclear. There’s a big stag, and Lottie ends up becoming completely disoriented. Stumbles across. And this is a big shock. The lost fans out there were surely screaming when this occurred.


Jason Concepcion Oh, it was very this felt like they have you know, they had they know that they have to know that they’re referencing.


Rosie Knight Yeah, Yeah. I hink that she I think they’re trying to troll people like a lot of people in our Discord, like in a friendly way. I a lot of people in our Discord had seen this on the what’s coming next. And they kind of felt like it was going to be that lost moment. So she finds more leads plane. The plane that we saw get destroyed in season one that exploded over the lake it is not destroyed and inside is a teddy bear. And not only that, but under the teddy bears seat is a tunnel that leads into the ground. And that tunnel leads to an elevator and Lottie comes out of the elevator into a nineties mall where her team mates are eating in a food court and a Florence and The Machine cover of the No Return theme song is playing eerily. Weird vibes.


Jason Concepcion I mean, more and more I’m thinking this is some sort of multiverse thing crossed with a final destination thing. The final? Certainly.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Certainly Lottie’s final scene in the present makes me feel like they’re. They stole from death or something like that. And now they’re. And everything that’s happening is because they owe some kind of cosmic debt to something.


Rosie Knight I think that we get a lot of hints this time that either there’s some kind of multiversal situation or some kind of timey y me two universe is string theory existing at the same time. The kids in the nineties and the adults now are all living in the same time, but separated by like a veil. It’s all very interesting and another unique discovery. I will say this is a good classic horror trope here. Van maps out all the creepy symbol trees. That Tai has been visiting.


Jason Concepcion I love it.


Rosie Knight Late at night and shock, horror. If you connect them, they make the creepy cult symbol.


Jason Concepcion I love it.


Rosie Knight It’s so good. It’s so pleasing, it’s so enjoyable, it’s so silly. And Tai makes a very good point. You know, this is something that’s been used in history, in horror, in, you know, Alan Moore’s from hell. They have something along these lines. And Tai makes a good point. You could just connect them in any shape, right?


Jason Concepcion It doesn’t have to be that way.


Rosie Knight Doesn’t have give be that shape, I guess. And Van’s argument is, well, this is the order you found them. So there’s some kind of order there. But I’m on Tai’s side with this.


Jason Concepcion I am as well.


Rosie Knight Van, Van says, look, if if I’m right. And these. Trees mean something. There will be another tree in this specific location and we’ll be able to find it. We’ll have the symbol, and that will prove that this is something rather than nothing. Back in the present day. Nat. In a moment. This indeared me to her so much. Nat has had enough of Lisa’s shitty mom. Lisa’s shitty mom crosses the line and basically Lisa has history of suicidal ideation and her mom starts describing very viscerally a way that Lisa could kill herself. So one of the worst things you can do.


Jason Concepcion It’s really, really fucked up thing to do.


Rosie Knight Horribe.


Jason Concepcion Really, truly a fucked up thing to do.


Rosie Knight Extremely fucked up and dangerous and Nat just totally freaks out, yells at Lisa’s mom, gets Lisa out the house and very sweet moment and classic weird Juliette Lewis/Nat energy here, steals Lisa’s goldfish the 14th ghillie by just putting it in her mouth in a mouthful of water and then spits out into a walk up and is like, Hey, you go and their bond here is kind of cemented. This is now a two way friendship. This is someone this is not showing, Lisa, that she cares about her two. And then we get to and this was you you mentioned this moment already. It’s one of my favorite moments in the series. So well done. It’s so fun. It leans so much into what’s great about Misty. We get this great side by side montage of Misty and Walter, you know, booking themselves into this Bambi. Walter wants them to share a room. Misty says no. And then we basically see that they’re sort of they’re two peas in a pod.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight They don’t know they’re separated by a wall. But we see them. They both look for listening devices all over the room. They cover they put the remote control in a little plastic Ziploc bag that they carry with them. Everything they do, they do. They are kindred spirits. And they can almost sense it as they go to bed. They sort of can’t really get comfortable because they can almost feel this closeness between them. It’s very sweet. And I truly am rooting for this weirdo couple. Misty deserves some love. She’s always been single. It’s time. Maybe Walter is the guy we’ll see. In the mystery mall Lottie is freaking out. She’s sitting at the table and her friends are kind of ragging on her, and she wants to eat the food, but she’s also really cold. And she’s starting to realize that the mole is not real Sorry to the lost fans. It’s a hallucination. And of course, she’s actually freezing in the middle of the forest and the friends are just figments of her imagination trying to help her keep safe. And it seems like Lottie may finally have lost her hold on the group because Nat has enlisted the rest of the survivors to go and get the frozen moose out of the lake. But and I will say this. I knew this was going to happen. They did not call a big enough hole for that moose.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, I mean, Moose, I’m watching this. And what does the moose weigh? 2,000 pounds.


Rosie Knight Yeah. LIke a two tons.


Jason Concepcion Why don’t you try to look how heavy is. There is no way like eight young people.


Rosie Knight Starving people.


Jason Concepcion Standing on ice are going to get a fucking great a moose out of the water. No way.


Rosie Knight No, they. Well, they had what they should have done.  Water is like a flotation. If they’d have cut around the whole moose, maybe the most would have risen a little bit. Instead, they tie a thing around its neck. They try and pull out this tiny hole. Lo and behold, sorry to that. Those survivors, the moose is gone down into the depths. Was the moose even real? There’s still kind of.


Jason Concepcion I thikn it was real. I think it was. I think too many of them saw it. I think it was real. Yeah. Here’s what I say. You do. You tie the rope around the moose neck, you tie the other end to a tree. Now you cut the hole. Okay.


Rosie Knight That’s smart.


Jason Concepcion Now you cut the hole because.


Rosie Knight The ice would. The ice was that was keeping it up. So if you’re tied to the tree.


Jason Concepcion And you just try and slowly pull it up as much as you can re tying on the tree so that at least there’s an anchor and you’re not there holding on to the other end of a two ton animal that’s drag you into the water.


Rosie Knight Yeah, that’s a good point. And it is truly. This is one of those moments where you just know it’s like a game changer moment because if they’d of actually got that moose as Nat points out, there was probably enough meat to keep them going until spring.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Now they don’t have that. We know what meat they get at time to more than likely.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight And it’s just bad times. Shaunna, she’s continuing the Jason trademarked, blowing up her life by telling Jeff that she told Callie about Adam. But the best thing is.


Jason Concepcion Radical honesty.


Rosie Knight Dude. She’s just like, I think we’re all going to be fine. And he’s like, What do you want? All of us? What do you mean, all of us? And she’s like, Well, I told Callie that we that we, you know, I killed Adam and we covered it up, and he’s like, What the fuck is wrong with you? He’s like, As parents. We’re meant to just, like, not fuck up our kids. We’re supposed to throw ourselves in the way of danger. And Shauna, you’re right. Radical. Honestly, She’s like, I’m sick of lying to everyone. I don’t. I’m lying to every single person in my day to day life. I don’t want to lie to my daughter.


Jason Concepcion Well, what about the cops? Everybody was like radical honesty for everybody except the police.


Rosie Knight But the cops. And hilariously, I don’t know if she’s playing a game. I don’t know if she’s endeared by the fact that her mom kind of alluded to the horrors of the forest and how much it affected her. But Callie shows up.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight And Jeff’s like, Oh, aren’t you going to your friend’s house tonight? And she was like, Oh, well, I actually haven’t. She’s been honest. She’s like, I’m staying at my friend’s house. I’ve been going to the park. I’m sure there are better places to do, but going to the park and hanging out with a boy and I’m not going to do that anymore. So how can I help you? And suddenly that play and happy families, because these three are the most fucked up people in the show. I truly believe that. Like the way they can just be in denial. It’s just they are just on it and they are playing happy families. Good for them. As we mentioned, you know, the moose in the wilderness did not. Come to the fruit. It did not come to fruition in the way that Natalie had hoped. She sort of ended up freezing in the water. She’s in that very luxurious spa. It’s just it’s a tin bath. And I guess that heating water from the snow on the fire seems like it would take them a long time to fill that up. I have to fill up a bath with boiling water. But, you know, they did it. They committed and everyone is feeling down. But also I feel like a little bit grounded. It seems like team logic has a little bit more argument on its side now. That really was me. Natalie almost caught it. Where is locked? He doesn’t have anything locked up. Mari and Nekila come back and they have Lottie. Lottie doesn’t have any food, but he does have hypothermia. And Nat is like, you know, get get into this top and we’re going to bond. We’re going to kind of fake shit talk each other. And while we didn’t get any me, at least we are now kind of on bad times and things seem to be going okay.


Jason Concepcion One thing that I, I think this is a wonderful it’s a wonderful gesture. And of course, like this is obviously Lottie is in real treacherous straits, you know, but I, I when Natalie said this is my fault, I completely disagree.


Rosie Knight I disagree.


Jason Concepcion No, it’s fucking not.


Rosie Knight It’s not.


Jason Concepcion Everybody else who is suggesting that Lottie is somehow actually like actively getting everybody food when she doesn’t ever leave. And it’s not necessarily Lottie’s fault, but she also could have stood up and been like, Hey, let’s big hand for Nat, who is going there in the cold every day to go get us fucking food.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, she could have also just said something.Along the lines of like, you know what? The reason that Nat and Travis haven’t gotten enough food at the moment is because it’s winter. But I think if we all come together, we can like, do we each have a part to play and she can keep making them the blood. T She didn’t have to go along with the game. I agree with you. I do not believe that it’s Natalie’s for Also, Natalie was happy for them to split the gun or to flip a coin and, you know, have Lottie perhaps have the gun. But yeah, I disagree. It is not Natalie’s fault. Natalie is truly one of the realest and smartest people left in that forest.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Absolutely.


Rosie Knight Lottie is definitely in a bit of like a dissociative state. I think at that point where she’s just letting things happen to her and she is reentering that place. I feel like in the present she’s going through affirmation cards, I suppose that people have written from the wellness group and she starts to see ominous cards, say things like, I’m grateful for my friends. And then she sees a queen of hearts playing card. And it’s all getting, I think.


Jason Concepcion With the eyes crossed out.


Rosie Knight Eyes  crossed out. It’s very creepy, very horror. And she decides she’s going to get her trusty knife that, by the way, she could have taken a knife into that forest just say in the nineties. But she gets I don’t know if she goes back to the blood magic ways and she cuts her hand over a strange stump that looks very similar to the stump that everyone is obsessed with in the nineties, the warm stump. Now this I think is our biggest multiversal slash timey wimey like weird. String theory. Ask him because she cuts her hand open. And bleeds onto the stump and she says something along the lines of Right, kill us just enough, which I think, like you said, it alludes to this final destination theory. And as she does it, Tai and Van find the stump in the past. And obviously that’s just good adding probably, but it feels like there’s something important there. Like the magic that Lottie’s doing in the future is actually affecting things in the past rather than in the present day. And that becomes even more of an intriguing theory when they see someone running through the woods. Immediately after discovering the weird melting snow stump and they chase him down. And in a shocking twist that will surely upend everything. They find that the mysterious wintery figure is none other than Harvey.


Jason Concepcion Dun. Dun. Dun.


Rosie Knight He’s alive. He’s alive. How did he stay alive? This is the big question going forward. Two months.


Jason Concepcion Well.


Rosie Knight At least.


Jason Concepcion I think he must be. It’s got to be some multiversal thing. And he is in that pocket dimension, that place or something.


Rosie Knight And I like  that.


Jason Concepcion Whether it was the blood that called him out or whatever. I that’s the only thing that makes sense to me.


Rosie Knight But yeah, there’s a hatch. There’s a real hatch. All because they covered a lot of ground. They really searched for him. And so no surprises. They take he’ll be back. And Team Supernatural is just going absolutely wild. Nat can’t believe it. She is fucked cause she.


Jason Concepcion I think you can. I mean well, I did find the pants and I thought.


Rosie Knight Yeah, that’s what it was. I, I would agree that that is the route she should take. But as some eagle eyed X-ray Vision listeners pointed out, she did technically fake Harvey’s death with a with a pair of bloody shorts that she planted in the woods because she wanted Travis to get over and still spend all his time.


Jason Concepcion She could still say and just say, These are not your shorts, honey. Oh, yeah, I, I just I did find them.


Rosie Knight Someone’s shorts out here. So, like, yeah, that’s how I think that’s the way she should play it. Yeah. Not looking good for her, but Lottie now obviously, she is also now fact because Mari and everyone else starts going, Oh, Lottie was right. She said Harvey was alive. It’s happenning. And Van, she cannot keep her excitement under wraps anymore. She promised Tai that the two of them would kind of keep Tai’s connection and sleep walking to themselves. But she bursts out and she says, Well, no, Lottie knew he was alive, but Tai knew where to find him. Tai was the one who took us there who has this connection to the forest. And we’re going to work out what it is.


Jason Concepcion Dun Dun Dun.


Rosie Knight Dun dun dun. And that is not the only shocking return because Tai, in the present day, after hitchhiking very dangerously across Pennsylvania with a trucker who she buys a wonderful naked woman pen from, she gets there safely. Good for her. Because honestly, I think going into his go.


Jason Concepcion He’s one of her constituents.


Rosie Knight He’s one of her constituents. Yeah. You know, good. Good for him. He voted for her, so she survives. That’s huge. And she ends up in a small town. She gets out the car, she heads towards a VHS video store with a pride flag outside.


Jason Concepcion I knew it was coming.


Rosie Knight You had to. You see the pride flag. You see the cool VHS. You go inside and there’s a beautiful ginger woman wearing flannel. Played by Lauren Ambrose. It’s adult man. She is, it’s happenning, and she’s standing in front of a board with different tapes that she recommends, all of which are absolutely just me and my friends.


Jason Concepcion A really great taste, really great movies.


Rosie Knight And also definite allusions to the things that we see happen in Yellowjackets and the kind of first season. So yeah, the immortal lesbians they’re back, hopefully Van can help Tai we’re going to be very close to that halfway mark. Next week is the halfway mark of this season, and we still have absolutely no idea what’s going on. But it’s a joy. It’s a joyous ride.


Jason Concepcion Joy. It is really a joy. Yeah. I start, I think more and more that you’re kind of right about the present affecting somehow the past.


Rosie Knight Some kind of loop of rules. Like, you know, some kind of time travel connected.


Jason Concepcion There’s a there’s something like that occurring where this show we I don’t know necessarily how it would work yet but. What if? You know, we think this show is being edited together. Cut. We’re cutting backward. We’re we’re coming back to the present. We’re flashing back. But what it’s like is somehow this is linear. Somehow this is happening linearly.


Rosie Knight I wonder that, too, if we’re going to go. If we’re imagining, hypothetically, Tin foiling it, going for lost. There is a version where everything they’re experiencing is actually happening at the same time, where they’re either experiencing a vision of what their future could be. They’re in some kind of strange space. You know, we’ve talked about, I think, in the Discord of the idea that you floated about some kind of nuclear army base is very popular. There could always be some kind of hell mouth element to that or something. Stranger things, you know, where you have a creature or a space where timelines blur. It’s going to be very interesting. I’m still just blown away by how intriguing they’ve kept the mystery.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight But also how long can you keep it going?


Jason Concepcion Question I do think that this back half of the season is. You know, to use Lost again as a kind of model. They made it. Now, those were different television watching times, right?


Rosie Knight They were different era.


Jason Concepcion Just a different TV watching culture at the time. But. They got to think about as far as you could go without any kind of concrete. Here’s what’s going on. And I do think the back half of the season, we’re going to have to start to really understand what’s going on. Or else. Even if it’s the only way, the only way to. Yeah, the only way to kind of avoid that is shit gets way crazier. And I think that that’s also a possibility is that shit just gets way crazy. But I think now with Lauren Ambrose here, adult man here, it feels like there’s some momentum now to start letting us in on what the fuck is happening.


Rosie Knight And we have basically our core cast now existing as adults and young people for the first time. So how that all comes together is going to be really exciting to see.


Jason Concepcion Yes, I can’t wait. Up next, Nerd Out.


Rosie Knight In today’s Nerd Out where you tell us what you love and why, or a theory that you’re excited to share. Cornelius shares a very eerie and I think very likely Yellowjackets theory.


Jason Concepcion This is crazy. Hey, Rosy. Hey, Jason. Long time. First time I had a thought. What if Shauna’s wilderness, baby Daddy isn’t Jeff?


Rosie Knight Dun, dun, dun.


Jason Concepcion But the creepy wilderness spirit slash man with no eyes slash dead hunter guy. What if the reason Shauna’s baby isn’t a thing or even reference to the present is because it was a creepy melisandre style smoke baby or something? Then the quote he inside of Shauna wanting blood, etc. makes more sense. Love you guys. Have a great day. You know, there might be something to this.


Rosie Knight I think so. I think we’re getting to the point now where the baby and the fate of the baby is going to be a huge touch point for whatever goes forward. And I think if we’re talking about strange, spiritual, ghostly situations that we are now seeing alluded to as if they are really happening rather than just visions. I would absolutely see this as a theory, and I think I like this specific idea of the kind of melisandre smoke baby. I think that kind of horror trope of like, Oh, the baby is disfigured or the baby is, you know, something wrong with it, It can go quite it can become quite a blessed or like weird. And this show’s very thoughtful. So I think the smoke baby scary kind of notion of the baby almost not existing and only being able to exist in the forest because Shauna really only knew she was pregnant in the forest when she messed up, period, when everyone else is linked up. So I think there’s something very interesting here, especially because I think the two most likely scenarios are something like this, or they eat the baby. And are they really going to eat the baby? That’s the big question I have.


Jason Concepcion I’m just going to leave you with this theory that feels too hacky and obvious, but is it Jacob’s Ladder? What if they’re dead?


Rosie Knight I think it’s. I think it’s very likely. I think it’s very likely Purgatory lost. I still think that they might be trying to do that ultimate impossible to do trope. I think it’s likely in the breakdown of the credits, I did it at IGN and we spoke it about here. When you pause it, there is one scene, one flash of the plane completely borne out with van or burn up on the plane. And I still I still think I don’t think that’s crazy.


Jason Concepcion For those of you who haven’t seen it, who want to watch a really freaky psychological horror movie, Jacob’s Ladder. Nice. Thanks, Cornelius. If you have series or passions you want to share, hit us up at As always, instructions are in the show notes. Well, that’s it for us. Rosie, what have you to plug plug, plug, plug, plug, plug plug plug.


Rosie Knight I’m covering Yellowjackets at IGN if you want to read all these kind of theories and thoughts that we have here, but in a even deeper textual way, you can find me RosieMarx at Instagram and Letterbox’d. I think I should hopefully have something very exciting to announce soon. Fingers crossed. And yeah here. Twice a week. Good times.


Jason Concepcion I am plugging Primo on Amazon Freevee slash Amazon Prime. It’s currently available to add to your watch list. Here’s what you do. You go to your Amazon Prime or you go to your Freevee app. You search Primo Shae. S-H-E-A-. You see the show. It shows a family sitting on orange couch. You hit the plus symbol to add it to your watch list. You log on May 19 and watch. Catch the next episode of X-ray Vision Friday, April 21st for the season finale of the wonderful Mandalorian Television Program with our good friend Jason Mantzoukas.


Rosie Knight Whew.


Jason Concepcion And that’s going to be super fun. Important Programing Note X-ray vision will be taking off next week. That’s both episodes. Next week we will be going dark. That means no, no new episodes of the Pod on Wednesday, April 26th, and Friday, April 28th.


Rosie Knight And if you miss us, make sure to subscribe on YouTube where you can watch full episodes of the show. Plus follow us @XRVPod on Twitter for all the cool updates, retweet some fun news, and check out our Discord to meet and hang with tons of amazing fans. That thing is just popping off at all times with the wildest theories, the funniest chatter and things even outside of what we talk about, sports, Survivor. There’s a channel for everyone. Crafts, art, everything. You’ll love it.


Jason Concepcion Five star ratings. Five star reviews. We need them. You gotta give them to us. Here is one from M.J.. It makes me happy. X-ray vision will always get five stars from your podcast. Insightful, informative, fun and funny. I love everything that Jason Rosie do. Twice a week. I look forward to hearing your show. Your show makes me happy. Thank you so much. We’re delighted that we could do that for you. X-ray vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroote provide video production support. Alex Reliford handles social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme Music. See you next time, folks.


Rosie Knight Bye.