On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight share biscuits! In the Airlock (1:56), they dive deep (deeep) into season 3 episode 3 of The Mandalorian, recapping and discussing theories for the season, the Andor quality of the episode, and the politics of the New Republic. Then in Nerd Out (1:03:18) Jason and Rosie discuss a listener theory about raiding the mines of Mandalore for that sweet, sweet beskar.

 

Note: Imprecise timestamps are an unfortunate side effect of a new ads system. Thank you for your patience as we work to resolve this issue.

 

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Nerd Out Submission Instructions!

Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to xray@crooked.com that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it? If you’re sending a theory, feel free to send only a summary of your theory (no audio needed) for Jason and Rosie to react to on air.

 

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TRANSCRIPT

 

Jason Concepcion [AD]

 

Jason Concepcion Warning This podcast contains spoilers for Season three Episode three of The Mandalorian.  Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion.

 

Rosie Knight And I’m Rosie Knight.

 

Jason Concepcion And welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked Media podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

 

Rosie Knight In this episode, we are stepping out of The Airlock and into an unexpectedly diverted episode of The Mandalorian.

 

Jason Concepcion Andorian, and one might say.

 

Rosie Knight It was very Andorian. In season three episode of The Mandalorian, though there was very little Mandalorian and even less baby.

 

Jason Concepcion Boo.

 

Rosie Knight But it’s a good episode. In Nerd Out, our listener has thoughts about The Mandalorian Season three Episode two from last week.

 

Jason Concepcion And as always, if you want to jump around, check the shownotes for the time. Since we understand there have been some issues with the timestamps and their accuracy. We’re working on it, but it’s somewhat out of our hands. Just bear with us. Up next, The Airlock. Stepping out of The Airlock and back on to the beautifully constructed surface of Coruscant.

 

Rosie Knight It’s thriving.

 

Jason Concepcion The jewel of the Galaxy for season three Episode three of The Mandalorian on Disney plus. Chapter 19 The Convert, written by Noah Kluger and Jon Favreau, directed by Academy Award nominee Lee Isaac Chung. Folks, let’s get into it. So we open up. Right after we ended the previous episode by the living waters under the minds of Mandalore. Din wakes up beside Bo-Katan, who just saved his life. Grogu is very cutely standing over him, looking concerned, and Din’s very, very first thought. First thing on his lips I am redeemed.

 

Rosie Knight He’s just in. He’s like, I’m redeemed.

 

Jason Concepcion He’s ready.

 

Rosie Knight I’m ready, baby. I woke up. I know it’s happened.

 

Jason Concepcion Bo agrees. And she’s like, Yes, you did it. You bathed in the living waters. And it’s very clear that din passed out before the mythosaur. And so Bo is just ready to get out of there because she’s really processing what she saw. She says, Can we leave? Dinh wisely takes a vial of the water as proof. Wisely, I say, Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight Especially as we just wouldn’t have gone. So he really made it worth wild. He made it. Well, if you’re going to go, get the proof. Also, this will be a recurring question this episode. But Bo-Katan, why keep in that mythosaur safe? Why keep it a secret? I want to know.

 

Jason Concepcion It’s very, very interesting to me. More on that in a bit. Bo then quizzes Den a little further. You know, like, did you see anything at all? Are you sure you didn’t see anything before you, you know, like before you pass out? He’s like, No, not at all. And then he says, Well, I did see like a chasm. It was so deep. It was so deep down. And she says, Well, maybe the imperial bombs, you know, during the purge, they must have opened a fissure or something like that. Anything alive. Really? Nope. Okay. Really? They head back to Kalevala to get Mando’s ship. Din thanks Bo. And they both give, you know, the the cursory. This is the ways. And just then grow. Who says something in a very kind of cute or as always, but serious tone as well. And then right then the ship comes under attack from TIE interceptors the kind of upgraded the TIE fighters.

 

Rosie Knight At this stage in the timeline. We know that those are probably connected to Moff Gideon or his little, you know, cult. This is not like an more empire attack.

 

Jason Concepcion There’s a lot of mention of Imperial warlords, these kind of, like, remnants of the empire that splintered off to kind of, like, do their own thing. And the idea is, you know, I think, you know, at least the idea that that Bo and dinner probably dealing with is maybe this is something like that or Moff Gideon. Mando gets on the guns, Bo stays on the stick, the really cool sequence where Bo brings the ship screaming over her castle and Mando drops out of a door of the ship using its jets so it can get in the end. One super cool. Grogu who, you know, flipping the the cover of his little pod closed. And then we get a really great dogfight, great for everyone except for R-5. And the TIE themselves R-5 is like not ready for this level of stress.

 

Rosie Knight He is an anxious boy.

 

Jason Concepcion We get a trademark Star Wars canyon run. Is it even a Star Wars dog fight?

 

Rosie Knight There’s no canyon run. I don’t think so. I feel like the guys at ILM, who are really showing their skills here. Yeah. This is another episode where I’m like I feel it the way they’re diverting money to the MCU and to Star Wars is not making sense. But I’m happy with how good the Mandalorian looks. It also might be because ILM is like probably doing a lot of this work in-house, or at least designing it there. This shit looked so good.

 

Jason Concepcion It looked fucking amazing.

 

Rosie Knight If you watched it on IMAX, you would be like, This is fucking unbelievable. Like, is the trademark really Star Wars action. It doesn’t look too CG.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. Not any drop of quality. Yes.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, it’s this is epic. And I love I imagine that there’s like a little board I ILM, and they’re like Canyon Run. Like if there has to be a canyon run, like.

 

Jason Concepcion I mean, it would not shock me. I’m sure somebody with more technical skills could do this, but I’m sure they have templates for like seven different canyon runs, sitting shot computer animation files, and they just go ahead, put another canyon around, put another, just reskin it differently and then put it in. Anyway, it looks great. They fall into a really easy chemistry, Bo, and Mando. Bo leads the ties while Mando comes up behind them to pick them off one by one, then finally to take out the last. When Bo pulls, it hits the brakes, pulls A180 takes out The last TIE fighter , R-5 completely just blacks out from stress.

 

Rosie Knight Better for him. It’s like though you know those videos.

 

Jason Concepcion I think so.

 

Rosie Knight Of people who go on those catapults at carnivals.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight Or they just go on roller coasters and they just pass out. That’s R-5 in this moment. He’s like not.

 

Jason Concepcion Certainly he would not have wanted to see the next thing, which is Bo’s castle, get completely wiped out by a further squadron of TIEs. Bo is at first I was like, Bo’s going to be mad about like the people that live and work in her house. But she’s and she was really just more mad about the house.

 

Rosie Knight She’s not about the house. And like, the funny thing is, like, and like, let’s put it in inverted commas, defense. Like we’ve only seen droids in there. I would be sad about the droids. Bo You should be sad like we haven’t seen before. But she just cares, she’s like, That was my castle. Do you know how hard it is to come across a castle in the galaxy when all your people have left you and you are an apostate? But I had a castle. It’s gone. And this is like, this is a big mirage. Like, this is.

 

Jason Concepcion I mean, they they sent a lot of bombs blowing it up.

 

Rosie Knight This is the first hint. And I think the biggest direct kind of connection to what this episode is really about, which is what we’re going to skip to in a minute. Because like as they point out, they say, like, that’s a lot of ships for an imperial warlord. And you got to think like, who has that many ships and who would waste that many bombs on this?

 

Jason Concepcion And it certainly seems like something beyond Moff. Gideon Hey, great. Bo is furious. She wants to take out the ties that bombed her house. But, you know, there’s a whole hornet’s nest worth of tires coming at them. And so Mando sends Bo some coordinates and they jumped hyperspace to go somewhere. We go to…dun dun dun….Coruscant. We see our good friend.

 

Rosie Knight And mortal enemy.

 

Jason Concepcion And mortal enemy. I use that. I use that phrase, you know, sarcastically. Yeah. Our friend Dr. Pershing, former imperial collaborator, former we’ll put in air quotes, is speaking before a large audience at the Opera House from the Revenge of the Sith. He is free and able to give these public talks that are very, very well attended thanks to the amnesty program that the New Republic runs, which allows those who co-operated with the Empire and its remnants to join New Republic Society. Dr. Pershing says there were many of us who had no choice. None, I say, in working for the Empire. But now The New Republic has given us a second chance.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, I would just say, just in case you don’t immediately recognize him. You last saw him, he was doing dangerous tests.

 

Jason Concepcion On a baby.

 

Rosie Knight On the baby at the.

 

Jason Concepcion Baby.

 

Rosie Knight At the behest of Werner Herzog. So this is not like this is not like a stormtrooper who was like, kidnaped or drafted in or something. This is a scientist who is using his science to test on the world’s cutest baby, the galaxy’s cutest baby. But, you know, he wants a second chance. This is very interesting to learn about this amnesty. And I think this episode has some quite interesting.

 

Jason Concepcion I really like that.

 

Rosie Knight Me too. I also think this episode has some interesting parallels with our other Pedro show that we just said goodbye to The Last of US when it looks at like.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight The way that people take over and change from like fascistic regimes, there’s lots of interesting and all kinds of Andor comparisons in this episode.

 

Jason Concepcion This is an episode that is a lot about bureaucracy.

 

Rosie Knight Mm hmm. Everyone’s favorite Star Wars topic, definitely George Lucas’s favorite topic. It’s feeling very prequels, baby.

 

Jason Concepcion Pershing admits that his former research was cruel, or at least was employed for cruel means in cruel ways. And he lays all the responsibility for that on, quote, someone intent on using cloning technology to scare more power for himself. Probably talking about Moff Gideon, but who knows?

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, And also let’s let’s remember the last time in the Star Wars canon that we saw somebody return via a cloning technique.

 

Jason Concepcion Let’s more on that in a bit. Let’s put a pin on that for now. But I think a good a good thing to be thinking about. Dr. Pershing then continues it. You know, he hopes that he’d be able to use his skills as a genetic scientist to help the New Republic. And he talks about in a very Elizabeth Holmes Ian moment, he talks about the loss of his mother and how her organ cloning. You know, if only I could have cloned a new heart for her, could have saved her life. Pershing’s work, which is, you know, built on the foundation, laid by the Camino in researchers who, of course, produced and delivered the Clone Soldiers.

 

Rosie Knight Prequel siren going off again.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. It is all about splicing the DNA. Dun dun dun. Of numerous individuals together to create a single stronger genetic sequence in one individual.

 

Rosie Knight Sound familiar?

 

Jason Concepcion Sound familiar? We’ll go into that in more detail quite soon. After the speech, Pershing hobnobs with some of the New Republic elites. They are feeding him. They think it’s wonderful what he’s talking about. However, these are like the most cynical politicians imaginable. They were politicians under the Republic, under the Empire, and now under the New Republic, to the point where one of these these elites can’t even remember, like events.

 

Rosie Knight Which one was which.

 

Jason Concepcion Which one was which. His wife has to be like, No, no, no, honey, that was the republic. Oh, yeah. Who can even who can even.

 

Rosie Knight They will live in life. They will live in the high life no matter who was in charge. That’s right. And they’re still living now.

 

Jason Concepcion That’s correct. And they see in pushing something, a river of a reflection of maybe a lesser evolved version of themselves, survivors who just want to do what they do and don’t really care who’s paying the bills as long as they keep getting to do it, whether it’s acquiring wealth or getting to, you know, attend fancy talks in your house or in the case of Pershing performing grotesque genetic experiments on very, very cute babies. How dare Pershing lives at Amnesty House, which is kind of a halfway house. He he arrives home late that night and he he gets to meet some of the fellow former Imperials who also live there. Everyone has to wear like, a kind of, like, dumbed down version of their old uniforms, intercut with these special red pins that identify them as ex Imperials. They invite hit Pershing for a drink, and Pershing recognizes one of them, G 68 from Moff Gideon ship. They used to work together. The mention of Gideon kind of changes the mood. We learn that he was on trial for war crimes, for crimes against the galaxy. But as either escaped or that’s a cover story for him dying while being mine  slade. No one really knows. G 68 Then makes all the right, you know, makes all the right kind of notions about integrating with The New Republic and how important that is to her. But she does it in a very kind of robotic way. It makes you think, like, does she really want to integrate with the rebels?

 

Rosie Knight Yeah.

 

Jason Concepcion And then they then toast to The New Republic.

 

Rosie Knight Kate O’Brien is so great in this role. She played Jarella in Ant-Man and the WASP: Quantumania. She’s so good. She’s so menacing. I just want to say something. I’m not trying to get back on a Marlene style hype against The New Republic. But I will say, if you want to instill loyalty and give people a feeling of a some kind of redemption or part of being able to be part of society, properly like let them use their names and don’t give them stormtrooper esque like numerical kind of.

 

Jason Concepcion I think that that.

 

Rosie Knight I understand this is early days so the point is this is all bureaucratic, right? And everyone’s trying stuff out. So this is like you’ve got so many people, they even make a point about that. But like G-68 you could just be like, you’re not part of the empire,  now you get a name like, you know,.

 

Jason Concepcion What’s your name?

 

Rosie Knight What’s your name? I feel like there’s many interesting. This is a this is very Andorian because there’s a lot of stuff in this that is about the republic trying its best, but still making some of the same mistakes as the empire. And I think that they’re much smaller mistakes. But I found this to be a very interesting one, especially the arc that the characters go on this episode.

 

Jason Concepcion I’m going to stick up for The New Republic here. I do agree that this is it’s dehumanizing and it’s unnecessarily so. But even but as the Imperials themselves note, if this had been in the Empire in charge, all the Republic soldiers would have just been thrown into a sarlacc pit and, you know, executed en masse in their millions and billions probably.

 

Rosie Knight This is a very good point.

 

Jason Concepcion So, yeah, this is actually like not a you know, like, okay, it’s a miss here with the with the numerical names, but they are working to integrate them into the New Republic Society. And you have to you have to hand it to them.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah. You absolutely have to hand it to them where you do not absolutely have to hand it to. Well, I will know. And it’s the Republic work Republic, but I will let you hand it to them. But also I will say this scene is so good. Ten out of ten, all these actors, they bring such an interesting, like, depth. It’s very quiet, it’s very Andorian, and it’s very much in this kind of morally gray area of there, as you can see, like Pershing and G-68, as we will call her.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight They were quite high up but it seems from the others that you might have some like stormtroopers here, some grunt, some people who really probably didn’t want to be in that situation. And there’s this kind of like real grounded honesty to this scene. I was just really this was when the switch between what we usually expect from the Mandalorian to this did this this kind of seem really sold it to me.

 

Jason Concepcion X-ray vision will be back. And we’re back. They all start reminiscing about stuff they miss from the empire, and they’re careful to be like, not that not the Destroying Planet Stone segment where they are killing kids.

 

Rosie Knight Don’t seem to like the testing a baby.

 

Jason Concepcion Socks.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, those. The gray socks, the gray special hospital socks.

 

Jason Concepcion Hey, the hot water pressure was really, really good on this story.

 

Rosie Knight It’s like it’s really. I actually thought that was a really great moment as well, to highlight this, like, weird, complex situation that The New Republic has got themselves into, because immediately Pershing is like, well, you know, I just loved, and it’s like no, no, no. Don’t say anything about it,  stop talking about like you loved having the science to test on a baby. Like they’re like.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, you don’t talk about it.

 

Rosie Knight Like, we don’t want to erase your experience, but also, like, don’t talk about genocide. Just be like.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight That mundane day to day things, you know, that you missed.

 

Jason Concepcion Living under the Empire.

 

Rosie Knight Living under a fascistic empire.

 

Jason Concepcion And yeah. The Empire had a box at the pod races and they like get to go.

 

Rosie Knight And be like, yeah. Sitting out and looking out at the galaxy in the mess hall, like those are the kind of things they’re looking for. And hilariously, I guess it turns out they weren’t actually many good things about the empire, just one. And they all agreed.

 

Jason Concepcion Jist one. And Pershing brings it up. It’s the biscuits, the travel biscuits in your little meal ration kit. Apparently. Quite good.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah. One of them’s like, I don’t want it.

 

Jason Concepcion I don’t want it.

 

Rosie Knight The other one’s like, these were banging.

 

Jason Concepcion They mostly agree. Later that night Pershing is like reading up on the culture and society. Of course, I’m just trying to get acclimated. You know, the big city. She spent so much time kind of ensconced on a ship that in a lot of a lot of ways is like a small city that flies through the space, you know? But like, now he’s on this huge, vast planet sized city and he’s feeling out of place and he’s reading about it when there’s a ring of his doorbell and he goes outside, he finds the travel biscuits laying there. We get to see a little bit of Pershing’s work life. He works doing data entry in the archives, and we later learned that what he’s doing is. Cataloging Imperial hardware that has been captured, decommissioned weapons, ships, all the things that are on the ships, and he’s cataloging them and so they can eventually be destroyed.

 

Rosie Knight I just want to jump in here. New Republic. Nick, she’s back at it. I don’t like the Empire. Just need to specify that not only am I glad the Empire’s gone, but I found one thing. Don’t get rid of all that stuff that stupid. You don’t have anything. Keep that stuff. Repurpose it. That would be better. On. On a less logical point, but a more of, like, a thing that I thought was really powerful about this episode. I kind of like how Pershing’s job and the tone of it and the vibe of his like it feels very similar to Cyril Khan, like it seems like The New Republic, some of the stuff that they could take home from the Empire, the kind of data entry and the day to day mundanity of the lower level people is just still there in the same. And that’s not necessarily a judgment on them. It’s just something I found really interesting and I thought was smart because it’s true for a lot of people. Your life on the lowest level of society probably wouldn’t like materially change immediately. And I thought it was really interesting that you had this kind of mind numbingly boring job where he mostly just interacted with droids. It really reminded me of Cyril early on.

 

Jason Concepcion I think that’s a good call. I will once again lightly stick up for this time in that when we eventually go to the shipyard, a lot of the stuff is torn out of it. So stuff has been scavenged out of there. But now I will criticize the New Republic and say. I mean, this guy’s got to have supervision. You can’t let.

 

Rosie Knight Feels like he shouldn’t be the one doing this job.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. Like ex empire people cannot be the people who are like, you know, like writing the catalog of history here without anybody looking over his shoulder. I just, like.

 

Rosie Knight Also, you know, specifically this man, like, I feel like there’s probably a lot of people in the empire who would do, like, different kinds of jobs, who that is kind of a punishment in itself because very mundane. It’s in the office. This man gets what he needs to do his work. Very specific imperial technology. Guess what you are giving him access to at all times the knowledge of a very specific imperial technology.

 

Jason Concepcion I mean, this guy should be this guy should be like sweeping the streets of Coruscant. Like, I’m not even bullshitting

 

Rosie Knight He would probably be happier. He’s very.

 

Jason Concepcion He’s a war criminal. Come on.

 

Rosie Knight And he’s very, like conflicted in his kind of space. I think the best thing to do is take him out of anywhere where he could be thinking about doing tests on babies for dodgy Nazi science. Like, No, just like sweep a street. He can’t help it.

 

Jason Concepcion He keeps saying stuff like, well, you know, under the right circumstances, this kind of research could be good. It’s like, Yeah, I mean, like you can throw a child, like, out of an airplane and see what happens and you can probably get some  good data from that but why the fuck would you want to do that?

 

Rosie Knight This is really great writing on this episode because he, as we will see as the episode goes on, that mindset that he has ends up becoming like his undoing and this really brutal way. And I love again, that comparison of like, No, actually sometimes there isn’t something good that can come out of a bad thing. It’s always bad no matter who uses it, it’s always bad.

 

Jason Concepcion Sometimes the ends and the means are both so terrible that there’s no reason.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah.

 

Jason Concepcion You know, the means can be so terrible that whatever ends you end up at are not worth it. Pershing later on has some ice cream cones with G68 to explore Coruscant.

 

Rosie Knight On lovely, delightful, glowing ice cream cones.

 

Jason Concepcion She has been on planet before. During her academy days. She’s like, We thought we were doing good. Pershing agrees. He also was like, Yeah. I thought when I was experimenting on that baby, that cute little baby with those cute little eyes, I thought I was doing the right thing.

 

Rosie Knight And I was like, And everyone who is coming and all these different people trying to stop me, who seem like they were on the other side of history, they were definitely in the wrong. I was. I was doing the right thing. And I definitely wasn’t testing this baby’s Midi-chlorians to see if they could somehow used to give someone else Midi-chlorians This was all good things. All good.

 

Jason Concepcion So G when we were like blowing up whole planets, that was.

 

Rosie Knight Alderon.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. Anyway, Pershing is like, you know, we were close to some really, really cool breakthroughs when they shut us down, and he says, Again, in the right hands, our discoveries could have helped a lot of people. And G’s like, Well, why don’t you keep doing it? You know, just like as a hobby, just like.At home.

 

Rosie Knight She’s like, You’re with the Republic, New Republic now you can do that, right? There’s no reason you could.

 

Jason Concepcion Just get some babies.

 

Rosie Knight You’re on the right side.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, up in your apartment and just, like, run some tests on him. Like, what would you need to make that happen? And Pershing’s like. Well, like, unfortunately, the New Republic considers it horrifying to experiment on children. Like, unfortunately, he’s.

 

Rosie Knight sorry.

 

Jason Concepcion Slice their toes together.

 

Rosie Knight Also, like New Republic, kind of like, very aligned with the Jedi. And that whole, like, force thing’s probably not.Going to go well to be tested on Midi-chlorian babies.

 

Jason Concepcion And G is like, well, you know, you were just following orders and just following orders, even if it’s coming from The New Republic. Just kind of like how we become the Empire. Wasn’t that isn’t that kind of the same thing? He’s like, that makes a lot of sense. And she says, you know, sometimes you just got to trust your gut. And if your gut telling you experiment on babies, you got to do it.

 

Rosie Knight Dude, I have to say that these two are having the most unhinged conversations, yeah.

 

Jason Concepcion It’s so crazy.

 

Rosie Knight I just have to say the performances by Katie O’Brien and then Ahmed Abdi, who plays Dr. Pershing like. I cannot tell you how well they cast this chemistry.

 

Jason Concepcion Like I will say.

 

Rosie Knight You believe that she can convince him and you believe that he is like morally weak enough to kind of believe that he would be doing the right thing when really, you know, he just wants to keep doing it. But there’s just.

 

Jason Concepcion He just wants to keep experimenting on babies.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah. It’s just it’s so believable and, like, so bleak.

 

Jason Concepcion Moreover, I think that this is actually a really. Important concept, and it’s one that I think about all the time, which is how very often people’s political and philosophical beliefs are backfilled to support the thing that they want to do. Dr. Pershing is like, I’m a good person. Yes, I want to experiment on babies. But when I was doing that before, I was forced to, and now that I want to do it again. I want to do it because something good can happen that wasn’t allowed to happen last time. And and he’s created this and is in the in the process of creating this entire like ideology around. I just want to do horrible genetic experiments. How can I continue to do it? Oh, here’s this political philosophy that says if you want to do good, then you are doing good. Mm That allows me to do it. And that’s really, I think that a lot of people fall under this where they create their, their politics around what they really.

 

Rosie Knight Are defending that. Yeah. And also I think as well there’s something really interesting in the notion of like this is the only thing he knows how to do and rather than actually like putting in the work to become valuable in another way to the empire, he’s clearly incredibly intelligent. He has some kind. Instead of being like, Oh, the New Republic, like, what do you need from me? Like, how can I help you? And now you can walk up to that. But he has some ideas. He’s just like, but they, they don’t know it. But what they really need is someone who does genetic testing on babies, 53 year old babies.

 

Jason Concepcion And after she says sometimes you have to trust your gut. G makes it very, very clear that she is part of some sort of group of ex Imperials who want to continue doing imperial stuff. But this time for the good. And it’s very, I think, very notable with all the connections that we have mentioned to the latest trilogies that. While they’re at this, you know, outdoor, you know, walking park, you hear in kind of like carnival form the John Williams masterpiece I think. Mhm. I agree. Force Awakens March of the Resistance. You know when Poe Dameron and the rest come screaming over the water bomb bomb. But atom bomb. But Adam so a lot of, a lot of very conscious ties.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah. Like this is I think one of the interesting things about this episode is it as we will talk about more. It really feels like Favreau and Filoni are doing what they do best and coming in to kind of fill in these gaps in Star Wars lore. But they’re also doing the things that they love, which is referencing the prequels and trying to build this kind of holistic world with the prequels and now as we’re seeing the sequel trilogy. So it’s very interesting. I love that much of the resistance catch to like what a great song.

 

Jason Concepcion Well, I think, you know, as we were talking about off mic, I think this is very, very much in the Filoni wheelhouse, which is you build. Out the context around. Something from Star Wars. And if you do it in a compelling enough way, as he did with Clone Wars, it lifts up the original story.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah.

 

Jason Concepcion You know, with Clone Wars, obviously it was the prequels in this case, perhaps. I think we would both argue this is an attempt to lift up the latest, the most recent trilogy.

 

And specifically, I would say The Rise of Skywalker, like the final entry kind of building this.

 

Jason Concepcion The Rise of Skywalker.

 

Rosie Knight Building this context around as we will get to how this genetic testing may or may have not been involved in the iconic moment where Oscar Isaac delivered the line, Somehow Palpatine has returned.

 

Jason Concepcion Yes, And I think I think I think that’s where this is going. Very clear.

 

Rosie Knight And I think as well.

 

Jason Concepcion Very clearly.

 

Rosie Knight The coolest thing is like that is such a maligned moment, our forever. Obviously, we love Oscar Isaac in this pod, in this house, in this like community, but like I will forever love him for being our in character in that moment. I want to deliver that line. The way he put it across, and if you can turn something like that where even the actor was disappointed with the route, the film went into a nuanced, interesting look at the conversations. We’re talking about science, the ethics of genetic testing. This is obviously alluding to and built on like the fact that a lot of contemporary science that we have now is based on Nazi science. You know, like this is like a real world analogous thing that Star Wars does so well. And they’re bringing that in to potentially, as we are guessing. And I think we are right, especially by the time we get to the end of the episode to bring gravitas and context to what was essentially a throwaway line to do, like fan service. And I just think that is like really really cool. And like you say, that is the power of what Filoni does and has done. That is the reason that the prequels are so beloved now. That is the reason why Hayden used to come back.

 

Jason Concepcion For sure.

 

Rosie Knight He is a huge part of it. Obviously it’s the fans and the people who love this stuff. But Clone Wars gave people who loved Anakin and wanted to see more of him, who had grown up on those movies and felt like they were really special to them. And and there was something there. Even if they didn’t see it come to life the way they did. And it gave people who didn’t like them something to grab onto and then revisit the prequels and say, Oh, well, this matters to me now because I know what was going on in between. So I just I think it’s really cool. And I have to say, when The Mandalorian first came out, I definitely thought as soon as they mentioned the baby’s Midi-chlorians, that this was where we were going to go. But it doesn’t really.

 

Jason Concepcion Here we are.

 

Rosie Knight Seem like we got here till today. So if this episode feels different to that fun creature, heavy adventure that we’ve all been loving, this is why this is actually important. This is not an unnecessary diversion. This is probably the major thesis of The Mandalorian as an arc.

 

Jason Concepcion I completely agree. Pershing attends regularly debrief with a therapy droid who is there essentially to make sure that his integration is going smoothly.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, like therapy droid slash, like, spy. Like, does he really? He just wants to know, like, are you going to be an imperial again?

 

Jason Concepcion Also, Although it’s like the honor system, Like he’s not hooked up to machines. The Droid is not.

 

Rosie Knight Oh, no. It is therapy.

 

Jason Concepcion Is not attnuated to, is not attenuated at all to, like, pick up any stress in his voice or anything. Like whatever he tells this droid, the Droid is like, okay, he walks away. So, you know, he’s asked where these questions about how is integration is going. Does he have any, you know, any resentments towards the New Republic? And at the end of this, he says, hey, quick question. What would happen if I was to, you know, just like as a hobby while in.

 

Rosie Knight Private citizen.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, private city, just like a person. Start pursuing my genetic research on babies, one more time, you know, just by myself.

 

Rosie Knight Also likely be one baby. Like, there’s only really one that could happen. So, I mean, I’m going to have to hunt down a baby, kidnap it and then do it. How would that go?

 

Jason Concepcion And the Droid is like, that’s a hard no, cloning is illegal under the Coruscant accords. And, you know, that is the treaty which ended the Civil War and brought peace to the galaxy, which.

 

Rosie Knight Important.

 

Jason Concepcion I am a little shocked that Pershing didn’t realize. He didn’t realize.

 

Rosie Knight Deep in the empire.

 

Jason Concepcion That he was hard nose evil.

 

Rosie Knight I know it’s really you can really see how like brainwashed or like in the empire he was in the was because he’s like clowning just like fully illegal huh. Like I’m like fully you know, I’m like, you know how in every Star Wars movie, whether it’s we saw it with R-5 last episode. Like you know you can just always download what is on a droid and like give that information to someone else. I’m like, Why are you even asking a New Republic droid about cloning? If you are trying to do it like this is a bad idea, you’re basically snitching on yourself. But I love he was just like, he really didn’t know. Like he really thought I should just be okay.

 

Jason Concepcion By that token also, it did it. It does show that on some level, Pershing, I think it feels like he’s really making an honest effort of integrating two new republics. I think he feels like, you know what, I’m really trying.

 

Rosie Knight He doesn’t.

 

Jason Concepcion But now they’re wrong about this. And so I have to go my own way.

 

Rosie Knight Also let’s be real, he is being, like, fully manipulated by G-68. Like, she is like, I think that he wanted to do it, but I do think she is like I think he’s kind of like a weak enough person that if she hadn’t been there, he probably would have just kept doing his imperial jobs. And I think that.

 

Jason Concepcion I don’t diagree. Actually, I don’t I don’t actually fully disagree. I will get back to that more in a second. So. Later, after this therapy session, Pershing is like, okay, the new public are fucked. What the hell he finds G-68. He’s like, Yeah. He’s like, You know what? I want to go back to work. We’re going to do it again. And you know what? When the New Republic sees the value of my work, I think they’ll come around. And G’s like, I love it. What do you need to what do you need to start splicing baby genes? He says that. And she’s like, Wait, I can get you, you know, whatever you need. It would just mean just so you know, I mean, sneaking out of Amnesty house and breaking some other rules. Pershing’s like, Well, I don’t want to go back to the Integration Institute, which is clearly some other like if this is a halfway house to be like a quarter house, that’s like one step away from being jail. And so he’s like, no, I’m not. I’m not going to  go.

 

Rosie Knight See that to me is the moment where I feel like this is not necessarily a moral strength in him that wouldn’t have made him do this. I just think he’s easily led. So I think if she wasn’t.

 

Jason Concepcion I think that is the case.

 

Rosie Knight Offerring him these options, he probably would have not done this till somebody else did it. But he’s not going to say no. He doesn’t have like the moral core to understand what he’s doing is wrong.

 

Jason Concepcion I don’t necessarily disagree. At the same time, there is something fucked up in this guy. You know what I mean? And at the very least, he should not be doing the jobs that he’s doing and be given as much free rein as he’s doing. But I agree with you that she is pulling him in for sure. The next day at work, Pershing sees that he’s being ordered to destroy a bunch of imperial files which contain technical documents, other perhaps valuable information. He’s like, Hey, can I access these to find if there’s anything useful here? And that’s a no from his boss. He says, Listen, we’re really busy, actually. Like, his boss is like, we’re really busy. Like, just do. Is your.

 

Rosie Knight There’s a backlog.

 

Jason Concepcion The really? Yeah. When really the real answer is, hey, former Imperial guy, we’re not going to have you, like accessing imperial technology, so why don’t you shut the fuck up and, like, go to jail?

 

Rosie Knight His boss is, like, very kind and, like, definitely wants to be his friend.

 

Jason Concepcion I agree

 

Rosie Knight Like, his boss is, like, trying to check in on him also. This is the other thing is like this man. I do not know why he got such gall. Because when we saw him with Werner Hazog, Werner Herzog was always telling him, No, no, no, do your job. Go back in there. No, no. He never at any point, like had someone who he could tell what to do. Like, so I’m just like, was he just always like this? Like.

 

Jason Concepcion You don’t understand. And I think it’s hard if you’ve never had a passion for experimenting on babies. I’ve got to really understand how it drives you out. Because all kids are you.

 

Rosie Knight If you have once taken the blood without consent of a baby full of Midi-chlorians.

 

Jason Concepcion You just just splice it, you know, with other DNA. Like the rush of it is just amazing. So after this, this, like, run in with his boss in a very, very subtle metaphor. He then takes a big bite out of the Imperial Biscuit.

 

Rosie Knight He’s feeling nostalgic and those biscuits.

 

Jason Concepcion Feeling like I’m.

 

Rosie Knight Are going to become.

 

Jason Concepcion Taste of Empire.

 

Rosie Knight They’re going to become a very subtle theme. Throughout the episode he had earlier, someone mysteriously dropped them off outside of his room, and it’s obviously G, but now he’s like snacking, he’s feeling nostalgic saying it. Well, I wish I was back working for the Empire where I could just experiment on a baby all the time while eating some delicious biscuits.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight Also, he has a lot of questions about how G got those biscuits because I’m saying.

 

Jason Concepcion No, no. Well, he doesn’t fully know it’s her, even though I’m sure he says.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, like, who? Because really, who would have access to Imperial Biscuits other than an Imperial? Just say it.

 

Jason Concepcion Just another person, another person with a sweet tooth. For very sweet tooth. At his therapy session is next one. He then lies that he doesn’t feel any anger or resentment towards the New Republic, and it’s very obvious that he’s mad, but the joy doesn’t catch it. And then he goes straight to G’s apartment. It’s like, Let’s go, let’s fucking do this.

 

Rosie Knight Oh, yeah. And there’s like, I just wanted to say there’s a moment. I love him because this shows again, like, about his like his the way he’s just constantly convincing himself. He’s not doing it because he wants to do it. He’s doing it because it’s good for the New Republic. Because he says.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, you  don’t understand.

 

Rosie Knight Even afterwards, he’s like our role as New Republic. Like people in the New Republic is it to do what is best for the New Republic no matter what? And the Droid’s like, Yeah bro. And he’s like okay, I’m going to test the baby and he just reaches out. Hey, I’m like.

 

Jason Concepcion Hey, my therapy droid just gave me the okay.

 

Rosie Knight They just told you like you can’t do this. But he’s like, he’s like in his head. He’s Korea. He’s turning it into a moral crusade when as we can see, it’s more of like an addiction.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, it’s like also, it’s illegal.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah. Ot’s illegal bro.

 

Jason Concepcion X-ray vision will be back. And we’re back. G and Pershing sneak out of amnesty housing. They go down by train to the disciples yards where much of the equipment and files he’s been cataloging are held in these decommissioned imperial ships. And G’s like imperial ships have mobile labs. Right? Pershing is like, I don’t really what? I don’t want to do this, but really, he does. You can tell He really, really.

 

Rosie Knight I’m like, guess what bro? You could a turn around at any point.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. He learns now absolutely definitively that it was G who got the case of biscuits. And this is how she did it. By sneaking into the yards. They have to jump between train cars and inter in order to avoid the Detroit conductors. Pershing is like getting a real rush out of this. We get this little mini heist feeling. They’re skulking through the decommissioned imperial craft and looking for lab stuff. G setting the hook for Dr. Pershing, like, even deeper now is like, You know what? I’m sorry. I never introduced myself to you back on Moff Gideon. Isn’ that crazy to think we just walk by each other all the time. Like.

 

Rosie Knight Isn’t it weird?

 

Jason Concepcion Like, you’re in the bathroom. I’m in the cafeteria next door, and then we never talk to each. Now we’re breaking into ships together. I’m Elia Kane, communication officer, and he’s like Dr. Penn Pershing, scientist.

 

Rosie Knight And it feels huge.

 

Jason Concepcion I experiment on babies.

 

Rosie Knight Experiment on babies and it feels. Yeah. She was the communication officer for fascists, but like it does speak to the. To the like success and skill of the show makers and the creatives behind it. Like it feels like a huge moment because not only were they nameless underneath the Empire, but they’re now nameless under The New Republic. And here is a moment where they can kind of like being who is, even if it’s to get stuff to experiment on babies. And this idea of sharing the name and the power of a name is a really great way for her to get the hook. That’s it. Because it feels big. It feels like a trust moment. Also kind of talking about this, it makes me think how much a layer is kind of like one that’s a classic star name. She’s lying to you. Her name’s a liar. I love that. That’s just like the best, silliest Paul Pierce thing, but also like. I love how much she’s almost like a cool kid at school because, like, at no point should has he been given any reason to trust her. He just met her. She was almost Gideon ship. He’s not considering for a moment that this might be someone who betrays you.

 

Jason Concepcion She gave him biscuits.

 

Rosie Knight At every point. She’s like she’s given him a little bit. She’s being nice to him. She’s like, when he doesn’t want to go, she’s like, Nah, nah, it will be cool, I promise. Is this very interesting? Kind of weird, delayed like adolescence that they never got to have being in the empire. But passion is just he’s. He’s ridiculous. He’s not good. He’s not good at this.

 

Jason Concepcion He’s not absolutely falling for it. They eventually find the stuff, lab stuff. Cushing is absolutely stoked. He’s reminiscing now about the first time he walked into it like a really high tech professional lab to experiment on, you know, babies and what a rush it was and how he always wanted to be a scientist. And Leia, for her part, is never got to think about what she wanted to be, which is like an interesting comment that she makes and suddenly very white noise. Yeah, very weighted. Suddenly there’s noise and they see flashlights bobbing and the Doc and G run for it. They’re immediately arrested outside the ship. The cops know exactly who Pershing is and what he’s here for. It was a setup, and we realize that G sold them out.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, I think this is a great twist, because to me, the way it was going, I felt like she was going to sell him out to the Empire and some kind of, like Empire Group, not for any real reason. Just because she would be like, Well, now we’ve got the stuff. But I love that when they turn up, it’s New Republic and she’s obviously rising up these ranks quickly.

 

Jason Concepcion I will say put a pin in that because I do. I think she’s playing the loner.

 

Rosie Knight She is. She is. But this moment, this little reveal. Yeah. She sells him out to The New Republic. Felt like a great twist on what I expected. But then, yeah, by the time we get to the end of the episode, her aims are clear, and it’s really great because she is play in the New Republic like a fucking fiddle.

 

Jason Concepcion Now, here’s where I will say. Good idea. New Republic. I don’t feel bad at all like it was Pershing and trapped on a certain level. Yes, absolutely. Should the New Republic, who are showing incredible generosity and largesse in allowing these Nazi Imperials to reintegrate with society at a high level, give them jobs, etc.? Shouldn’t they have some sort of security measures just to make sure nobody’s out here? Like trying to do empire stuff? Not to mention, we should say the Empire, well-known for using mind programing techniques, very serious mind programing techniques. And so if you’re going to be generous to these people, not just like line them up against a wall as the empire would have done, you do have to put in measures to make sure that programing is broken, that the imperial mindset is not there. And even when there wasn’t this kind of like, you know, heavy, heavy mind preparation as there were for the start, for the stormtroopers and others, there was, you know, an unbelievable level of propaganda. You know, they lived inside their own imperial communications bubble, like so piercing that I think is important. And so while I definitely would quibble with the morality of some of the stuff that you know, Leia’s doing here in entrapping Doctor Penn, I think overall it’s a good idea, which usually the Imperials are not up to nefarious, even.

 

Speaker 2 If it’s not like imperial shit. It’s like, Bro, you just joined. Like just, just don’t be breaking these rules of go in and sneaking onto imperial ships. It looks she looks shifty is what I will say as well. Alia using a a true, timeworn informant technique of snitching on other people and setting them up to be informants. When you are the informant, it’s a really common real life technique that has. Yeah, it happened in real life. And I thought that was really interesting space that she’s in. Also, this maybe seems like this is her job within the Empire or.

 

Jason Concepcion It did seem like that.

 

Rosie Knight Within the New Republic, but like, she tests out.

 

Jason Concepcion It did seem like it’s kind of her job.

 

Rosie Knight The new the new recruits. But yeah, I thought this was really interesting. It was not what I was expecting. I agree with you. There should be some kind of way that they’re checking in on these ex Nazis who are now living within their word, though I will say what happens next. I again, I’m not a fan of what The New Republic choose to do.

 

Jason Concepcion I’m not a fan. I’m not a fan of what happens next. So what happens next is they hook Pershing up to a mind flayer.

 

Rosie Knight Sounds like a mistake.

 

Jason Concepcion Hold on, Hold on. Before you say anything. The Mon Calamari technician says to Pershing, who’s like, this is a ming flayer. No, no, no, no. We lowered the voltage.

 

Rosie Knight This is a classic.

 

Jason Concepcion The New Republic ones operate at a much lower voltage. It will give you relief from your imperial programing and it will wipe, you know, the kind of like, troubled imperial memories and and preconceived consciousness sectors from your mind. And it will feel great. And it’s not mind flaying. I promise you, it’s not mind flaying. You’re going to love the way it flays you. Trust me,.

 

Rosie Knight I’ve actually done it.

 

Jason Concepcion I’ve had it done myself and I love it.

 

Rosie Knight But I will say this again. Just blew me away. This. This felt to me very Andorian. It’s this idea of how like the New Republic. They need to do some stuff, but they’re getting rid of all this empire technology. But they kept the mind flayer. And not just that.

 

Jason Concepcion But it’s at a lower voltage.

 

Rosie Knight They’re arguing essentially like that. Basically, these are the things that they used to say about giving women electric shock therapy that they still do say about using it on people, you know. I just I thought this was it was this great balance and this is so good in the writing. It’s hilarious because of the way the Mon Calamari delivers it. But it’s really chilling. And even though you’re, like gushing, what the fuck, bro? You like this really deep, really quickly. This like wrong direction where you’re just like mind flayers. You’re like, guys, literally listen to the name. Don’t do it. Do whatever else you need to do.

 

Jason Concepcion Again, we’ve lowered the voltage and we prefer to call them mind scratchers.

 

Rosie Knight Mind scratchers.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, we’re not, we’re not quite flaying. There is a little bit of a  kind of textural. Yeah, that’s what it is.

 

Rosie Knight I will say he looked very chill when they first start. Like he doesn’t like you enjoying.

 

Jason Concepcion At first. Yeah. So Pershing is then arguing. Hey, wait. First of all, before you turn the flayer on, like I was entrapped, it was Elia. He then says very funnily to the Man Calamari. It was a trap.

 

Rosie Knight Perfect. Ten out of ten whoever put that in the script.

 

Jason Concepcion Absolutely Wonderful statement. We see Elia watching from the other side of the window, which is weird. You shouldn’t be allowed to do this.

 

Rosie Knight You just entrapped him. This is a sadistic choice.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. Also, like, this is just bad tradecraft from the chorus. Aren’t police like you shouldn’t let your informer. You should arrest your informer as well and be like you’re both taken into custody. Like the person has no idea who ratted him out.

 

Rosie Knight This is a great.

 

Jason Concepcion You shouldn’t do it like this. This is how you burn your informant.

 

Rosie Knight You make a great point. And I think this, again, showcases what we were talking about, about the early days of the New Republic and where they are in this kind of like bureaucratic space, because the other cop who’s in there with those kind of the mind flayer technician, he’s just like them. Right.

 

Jason Concepcion What do you what do you do, honey? How is work day of mind flaying?

 

Rosie Knight Flayed ten minds? You know, I accidentally nudged it when I was reaching for my coffee and flayed it, and instead of jostling it.

 

Jason Concepcion Woops. I flayed a guy today.

 

Rosie Knight Flayed ten guys. Oh dear. Like he’s literally just in there, like, you’re incredible. This is the shit. Like, this is you’re so good at what you do. This is why you’re here. He’s like, For every failure, like this man in front of us, there is a success. And you are that success in informing on these people. And I’m just like these, these guys that as they’re sometimes they are as silly as Pershing for not seeing what is clearly going on here.

 

Jason Concepcion Yes, I completely agree. So. Elia is like, Man, this is crazy to watch this. You know.

 

Rosie Knight She’s definitely seen a mind be flayed before. I do not believe this for a moment.

 

Jason Concepcion The technician is like, hey, you can leave. You don’t have to stay here. And now she’s like, No, no, I got it. You know, if you want to take a restroom break, I will watch.

 

Rosie Knight She’s like, He’s my friend. I need to watch him be flayed, you know.

 

Jason Concepcion Like he was wrong, but, like, there is a connection there, and I just. I want to be here for him. The tech then leaves her alone, which is like, what the fuck are you doing?

 

Rosie Knight And so does everyone else. The Mon Calamari. Why is everyone just leaving?

 

Jason Concepcion Don’t. This is like don’t leave a candle on in an  unattended in a room. Don’t leave someone hooked up to a mind flayer and walk away. Someone needs to be there the whole tim.

 

Rosie Knight If we are. If we are, as we have been saying, that you should be keeping an eye on a better eye on the holistic existence of ex-Imperials in your space, don’t just leave an ex-imperial with the mind flayer, bro. That’s a bad idea. Like the mind flayer has one of the most ominous names of all time. Don’t do it. Just don’t do it.

 

Jason Concepcion Like so soon as the tech leaves. As soon as the tech leaves, G cranks up the voltage to full mind flayer.

 

Rosie Knight She flaying

 

Jason Concepcion Potential. All the way flaying. And as she’s flaying, she cracks open one of those delicious a tin of delicious biscuits, Imperial biscuits.

 

Rosie Knight In case you wondered which side she was on.

 

Jason Concepcion That’s right. That’s not the force choking you. That’s the dryness of the biscuit. And she and she just cranks one down. And what again is a it is a very, very overt in your face.

 

Rosie Knight Yes. She is part of the Imperial.

 

Jason Concepcion From wherer she stands.

 

Rosie Knight Reamins and also as we kind of like, we kind of touched on it but when she informs on a Pershing and he gets caught she is so trusted by the New Republic that she takes away the box of imperial tools that he stole. So arguably, she and whoever she is working for think that that’s now have what they need to start testing on babies and build in a Palpatine.

 

Jason Concepcion I think what I think what she is trying to do here is to say look at how they treated you. They’re no better than them, in fact, aren’t they? They’re just the same. Look what they did. They said they were going to mind flavor and then they flayed you.

 

Rosie Knight Oh, that’s really slick.

 

Jason Concepcion You should just do you know, you’re trying to help.

 

Rosie Knight If he survives.

 

Jason Concepcion They don’t realize it. Yeah. I mean, this is this is almost directly from the Palpatine playbook, which is like my see what they’re trying to do? They’re trying to stop us from doing good. They’re the same as the bad guys. Aren’t they Anakin? Aren’t they?

 

Rosie Knight Look, isn’t this going to hurt you and everyone around you? And in this case you’re going to get your mind flayed.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah, I think that that’s exactly what her play is.

 

Rosie Knight I think she definitely was always going to crankier. I’m interested to know if when he basically started being like, no, it was her, she, like, entrapped me. Like that’s when she was like, Maybe I’ll cry. I get a bit high, I’ll see what I can get him to forget.

 

Jason Concepcion Just make sure we get all of the mind flayed. We go back to the the titular character.

 

Rosie Knight Remember?

 

Jason Concepcion In his show.

 

Rosie Knight The Mandalorian.

 

Jason Concepcion Mando and Bo. He’s taking her to the culvert, his culvert. And he’s like, Listen, I know I don’t need to say this, but you’re they go by the old ways. And I know that you’ve not been so far. You’ve been kind of openly critical, honestly, of the old ways, not to mention hanging out like in your castle in front of everybody.

 

Rosie Knight Just taking  your helmet off.

 

Jason Concepcion So please, please, please. Okay. Leave your helmet on. Also, a crocodile could come out of that water any time you need to be ready. They land pods. Vizsla is like, Hey, what are you doing here? Apostate Din Djarin the mandalorian who’s been cast out because he took your helmet off. Din is like, bitch, I’m redeemed.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, and Din is like, it’s me, Armor Wars. You are not redeemed. Please leave. Like it’s not happening for you. He’s like, actually they are two apostates. Fuck you.

 

Jason Concepcion Listen, I’ve. I’ve been redeemed. And this is how I went to our home planet. I went to the. I went to Mandalore. And guess what? It’s all lies about how they say it’s polluted. It’s not. You can live there and you can go there. And I went and I bathed in the fucking living waters. And Beau is like, Yep, that’s true. We have been to the living waters and then Din pulls out the vile in case anybody dares to question him. The Armorer.

 

Rosie Knight Paz Vizsla is like fuck off.

 

Jason Concepcion Fuck this shit. The Armorer then runs a test on the waters.

 

Rosie Knight Very scientific test.

 

Jason Concepcion And she’s pouring it into some other water that does something. And she’s like, You know what? That’s Mandalorian Living water, folks. And Din Djarin. You are redeemed. This is the way, babe. And by the way, Bo, who do we have a lot of political disagreements with you, but you have also not remove your helmet in like 30 minutes. But it’s the 30 minutes since you bathed in the living waters, therefore. You are redeemed as well. As long as you stay domed up, You can stay with us. And Bo, it’s the physical acting.

 

Rosie Knight Oh, my god.

 

Jason Concepcion Whoever is in either, you know, played Bo.

 

Rosie Knight My gut says it’s Katie. My gut says.

 

Jason Concepcion I think it might be both.

 

Rosie Knight I feel like it’s Katie. I feel like she’s in that suit because she is Bo.

 

Jason Concepcion But I think it’s Katie and Pedro most of the time. But whoever it is, the physical acting here is amazing because.

 

Rosie Knight It’s all helmet acting.

 

Jason Concepcion Without being able to see her face, you can tell that, Bo. While she doesn’t want to admit it, feels like feels the weight of that acceptance and feels like on some level like she is home.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah. And I kind of I love this as well because it’s really funny because they kind of go, Oh, you know, you haven’t taken off your helmet, right? And she’s like, no, like casually. And she acts surprised and you get these great shoulder movements. And they said, But look, this is Bo. This bitch takes off I helmet everywhere. And guess what? They knew it was safe in the mines. They knew it was safe on that planet. But after she came out of that war, at least subconsciously, she kept it on. You know, I feel like deep down, she kind of in the back of her mind, like when you do when you’re a kid or or when you’re just kind of daydreaming, you’re like, imagine if this happened like it seems, Brad. But I think in her mind, she she had probably played out like, what if I went back and they were just like, Well, you went in the war too, so you’re a demon? Yeah, I think it’s a really great moment as well, because I think this shows a shift in how the armorer sees the mandalorians. Like they need more people. And I love this kind of it’s very different to anything we’ve seen. I do. She’s usually very hard core, but the fact that she says to both, she’s like, Look, you can leave whenever you want. She’s like, If you want to take the helmet off, you can go. But if you keep it on, you welcome here. That seems to me like that widening of kind of who and what a mandalorian can be. And I think that’s going to be an interesting next step.

 

Jason Concepcion Let me ask you this. Why hasn’t Beau mentioned anything about the mythosaur?

 

Rosie Knight That’s why I want to know.

 

Jason Concepcion With me. I have a theory, and you tell me if this tracks with you. I think a lot of it is. You know, we’ve seen over the course of these last few episodes how disconnected it feels. And I think for a lot of good reasons, you know, she’s had her heart broken numerous times with regards to the internal politics of Mandalore, her own connection to Mandalorian identity, the genocide of her people, etc., you know, the inability to do anything about it, all of these things. And I think it’s only natural that that would lead you to wonder, like, are we doing something wrong? Like, why can’t we defend ourselves even when our whole ethos is supposed to be about ours in battle? Like, what is it about our philosophy that is weakening us? I think that she. Is has been, you know, so divorced from Mandalorian culture to the point where, you know, she’s been openly critical of it. And I think she’s taken the apostate identity in some way to heart. And and yet. This incredible revelation has been delivered to her. The Mrs. Sort is read and it must be a very lonely feeling because not only does it do all these people, her people view her as an outsider, an identity that she kind of was coming, you know, some ways towards embracing. But now she has this incredible news for them that they are going to be blown away like they are going to take it very emotionally, spiritually, It’s going to mean a lot. It’s this is a historic moment in the annals of the Mandalorian people. And here is this person who doesn’t believe in any of them anymore. And that information has been given to her. Yeah, it must it just must be such a weird, strange and discomfiting feeling. And I’m sure she just. With regards to her not saying anything. She just doesn’t know how to say it or. How it will be received.

 

Rosie Knight Exactly.

 

Jason Concepcion Really scared about like what will happen when I see this thing to them. What? Like it would be heartbreaking on a certain level for her to say, Look, guys, the mythosaur is real. I saw it. And for them to go, get the fuck out of here.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, exactly. And why would they believe it? I think you summed it up.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah.

 

Rosie Knight So succinctly. I think she’s. I think there’s two levels to it. And you basically eloquently put it across in the perfect way. But I would say overwhelmed and shocked, like she’s in shock. This thing exists. She saw it and she has already worked out very quickly that she is the only one who saw it. She has no back up. She has no one to, you know, collaborate her story. And I just think it’s like like you said, is that it’s kind of incredible narrative storytelling that the one person who doesn’t believe is given this burden of truth, you know, And then like you said, I mean, this is obviously in a way super heavily on her because the episode ends with her looking at the Mick, the saw on the wall, the kind of logo of The Mandalorian and not telling people. Also, I think another added layer is you get she turns up, Paz Vizsla doesn’t believe them doesn’t want to hear about it that cements in her mind. Oh well they’re not going to believe me then she’s welcomed into the fold and there’s this incredible moment of kind of camaraderie at the end when everyone says this is the way and they kind of welcome them in and they hug them and stuff. And then she’s like, Well, fuck, like now I found this kind of like acceptance and home. And I got to tell these people, there’s a myth. So and then she is also someone who has wielded the darksaber arguably, I believe she could have taken it back after having it last episode. I think that’s like an interesting thing that but she knows what it is to be a legendary Mandalorian who wields the legendary thing and what is the legend of the mythosaur? Mandalorians ride them. So then does that set up this kind of conflict between her and whoever else does? The fact that she saw it mean she is the one who’s going to ride it, or will she end up being pushed aside? So Din or another Mandalorian can ride it. There’s so many interesting layers. But let’s just say this. I think what we can say is we’re going to be going back to Mandalore this season. That is my prediction.

 

Jason Concepcion Oh, I think that that’s absolute.

 

Rosie Knight Even if she only tells Din.

 

Jason Concepcion Lastly. It really feels like with the middle piece of this episode, we’re heading towards Snoke. We’re going to find out. That’s what it’s going to be. We’re going to find the origins of Snoke. That’s going to be Palpatine’s DNA, some of Grogu who’s horrifically some of Grogu’s DNA and who knows what else. But it feels like that’s where we’re going to have a connection to them.

 

Rosie Knight Towards Snoke. And I think, yeah, I think we’re heading towards how they resurrected Palpatine, which was this kind of this this amalgamation of blood from his bloodline, you know, mixed with probably baby Yoda’s blood. Poor, baby. I don’t like what it says for the baby, but I am very interested, I thought. I think if they lean into that Andorian, more politically nuanced, like in depth, then we had a lot of laughs talking about it because that’s just how we enjoy talking about this stuff. But there’s a lot there.  This is deep. It’s kind of up saying it’s really unsettling. I think that is the way to explore and add gravitas to what felt like, Oh, we just want to bring Palpatine back. And I would love to see that. I think great, cool. On on Snoke being our first stopping Gap. I think, you know, Jon Favreau’s talked about The Mandalorian. I don’t think he said he doesn’t really know how many seasons it’s going to go. So I think Palpatine would probably be Leia, but I think we can assume that we’re heading towards the sequel trilogy. Now what does that mean for who we will see or what we will hear about? That’s very interesting to me.

 

Jason Concepcion Well a really meaty episode. I was shocked when it came in at like 53 minutes.

 

Rosie Knight Yeah, longest longest one so far, I think.

 

Jason Concepcion And I can’t wait to see where this goes. Up next. Nerd Out.

 

Rosie Knight In today’s Nerd Out what you tell us, what you love and why, or a theory that you’re excited to share. Listener Ike brings an RPG’s mindset to the Mandalorian.

 

Jason Concepcion Hi gang. One strong thought I couldn’t stop having since seeing The Mandalorian Season three Episode two was about Beskar. They’ve already shown the metals incredibly rare, super useful, and can be reforged in the Creepy Monsters lair on Mandalore. They’re just heaps of helmets and armor and stuff laying around. If I’m Bo-Katan or Din or Din Djarin, I’d be filling my ship with that stuff. Be set for life. Maybe it’s the RPG gamer in me, but they need to be looting that dungeon. Not even a word about it. We’re just going to ignore piles of precious metal armor. Maybe there’s a worthy grid upgrade in there. Just look at it. It can’t hurt to try. Best Ike.

 

Rosie Knight This is a great point.

 

Jason Concepcion I mean, it is like a great point. There’s like a there’s billions of credits like Mandalorian.

 

Rosie Knight I would be smashing every jar, you know, every every pot to see what is hidden inside. I would assume that the plain answer is, people thought that Mandalore was poisoned, so they didn’t go there.

 

Jason Concepcion Yeah. I think that the the propaganda about the place has held and I and further. You know, it’s unclear to me that any, you know, other than this person who then. You know, intersected with the jawas. It’s not clear to me that very many people at all have ever even dared to go there. Like, it’s very possible that it was just whoever that one individual was. Yeah. So I think that it’s it might be that I’m sure that there’s a scientific reason for everybody to believe that the planet is poisoned. But I think that I think that probably most people just assume that it’s poison, which is why they haven’t gone there. But yeah, I agree with I agree with you. I think, like next things should be go there and get all the stuff that’s useful and get it out.

 

Rosie Knight The one person I will say should have been doing this earlier is Bo-Katan. Babe, you knew it wasn’t poisoned. You told them it wasn’t poisoned. You should have been in there with your crew. Right? And all that. Beskar. Maybe you will find out you did read some of it, but I think it would be interesting. I do think that this is likely going to be a plot point going forward, because if they’re trying to rebuild Mandalore and Beskar is incredibly rare. The fact that there is at least some in the minds gives them a reason to go even if they don’t believe Bo about the Mephisto. Also, I will say, I think because of Din’s obsession with being redeemed and that happening and then Bo seeing this legendary creature that she didn’t know or believe in, I think that they’re both guys probably at the back of their mind, even though they should absolutely be buried in the dungeon.

 

Jason Concepcion But this harebrained tinfoil hat theory.

 

Rosie Knight Dun, dun, dun.

 

Jason Concepcion Some, not all because I think the timelines don’t quite line up. Some of the materials used to build Starkiller base come from Mandalore.

 

Rosie Knight Oh, see, now you’re talking. I love this. I love imagining the connections. I mean, why not? They are taking.

 

Jason Concepcion All this material there. Metal of of, you know, incredibly strong metal, other types of metal.

 

Rosie Knight We also know that they.

 

Jason Concepcion Weapons of all kinds.

 

Rosie Knight We also know that the first order. Troopers were orphan babies and kids that they stole. Very likely that some of them would know of Mandalore. Maybe it had rumors of it or had family from there. It would not at all be. A stretch to imagine that may come into play, which would also be great because again, it adds more of that conflict between Mandalore and then those two sides of like the force and Mandalore and going against, you know, this kind of fascistic new force use. I love the idea.

 

Jason Concepcion Now, the timelines are a little fuzzy because the construction on Starkiller happened like way, way earlier than this, but maybe some of the material is in it to build a super weapon or something. I could imagine that happening. Anyway, great question, Ike. Thank you so much. If you have series or passions you want to share, hit us up at Xray@crooked.com. Instructions are in the show notes. Rosie, that is it for us. Plugs, plugs, plugs, plugs. What you have to plug?

 

Rosie Knight You can find me here twice a week with you, which is just the most fun talking about all this kind of stuff. I have called pieces recently at Polygon, IGN, and all kinds of fun places like that. I’ll be writing a lot about Yellow Jackets and you can find me @RosieMarx on social media and yeah. That’s it.

 

Jason Concepcion Catch the next episode Wednesday, March 22nd. And of course, remember, we bring you two episodes a week. That’s Wednesday and Fridays. X-ray vision wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Rosie Knight And you can also subscribe on YouTube where you can watch full episodes of the show sometimes. Well, at this, sometimes we’re in a fancy studio, so you never know what you’re going to get. And follow us @XRVPod on Twitter, where you can see all kinds of cool stuff that we’re up to. Nice retweets, fun re-imaginings of the account when we want to celebrate someone like Pedro Pascal. And join our Discord like we talk about a lot. It’s great. Everyone on the Discord feels like the Spider-Man meme whenever we mention the Discord on here. So you get that. And me and Jason are in there and we do cool watch parties and talk about all kinds of things. Even outside the realm of the stuff we talk about on X-ray Vision, it’s great.

 

Jason Concepcion Five star ratings, five star reviews. We need them. You got to have them. You got to give them to us. Here’s one from MaxPowers8810: Fantastic. Rosie and Jason are so much fun to listen to. Even with the properties I don’t follow, I still enjoy their recaps because they really give great insight. I recommend it all the time. Thank you man.

 

Rosie Knight Thanks Max Powers the famous Max Powers. Wow.

 

Jason Concepcion X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video Production support. Alex Reliford handles social Media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music. We will see you next time.

 

Rosie Knight Bye.

 

Jason Concepcion Hey, Mike, this Histoff from Mureen. I want to talk about. Listen, Mike, there’s no good way to say this. You know, I know there’s there’s a lot of complicated feelings about the Empire these days. They did. They made a lot of mistakes, Mike. I’m not going to say she didn’t make a lot of mistakes. Okay. You know, I did vote for him, but it was for tax purposes. But one thing nobody talks about, they always bring up Alderon. They bring up the kids at the Jedi 10. One thing nobody talks about, they never give him the credit for this is the biscuits, Mike, the travel biscuits. They’re amazingly they would change your life, Mike, if you ever get a chance to try them. I understand the biscuits are illegal under the Coruscant Accords right now, but if you ever, by hook or by crook, you get your hands on them, they will, Mike, change your life. They will change your life. Mike, I’ll take my answer off the air. Thank you.