The REALationship With Your Friends | Crooked Media
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July 29, 2022
The REALationship With Your Friends

In This Episode

Like the 80s hip hop group, Whodini, once said…Friends. How many of us have them? The ladies of Imani State of Mind’s besties are joining the conversation to take a deeper look on what it takes to make a friendship last and what role friendships play in your mental health. 

We would love to hear from you! Please email us at with all your questions and comments!



[sponsor note] 


Dr. Imani Walker: Welcome to Imani State of Mind, a podcast about mental health, culture and politics. If it’s on your mind, we’re probably going to talk about it. I’m Dr. Imani Walker. You may know me from Married to Medicine: Los Angeles, or my YouTube series, Mother and Daughter with my Mom. I’m a working psychiatrist in the city of Los Angeles, but most importantly, I’m a mother and a Black woman living in America. The current state of the world can be scary, and I know we are all searching for ways to protect our mental health during these times. So I want this show to be the answers, mental break and healing you are looking for as you navigate your mental health journey. So let’s take a deep breath and let’s get into an Imani State of Mind. And because everything in life is more fun with a partner. I want to introduce all of you to my co-host and copilot on the podcast, Megan Thomas. What’s up, Meg? 


MegScoop Thomas: Hey, girl, I’m over here taking a deep breath with you. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh. 


MegScoop Thomas: Because my household has COVID. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh no! 


MegScoop Thomas: So I need a break. And you are my break. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, you know what? Listen, I won’t say, like, my house is actually, like, really, like, pretty peaceful. Like, everything has been, like, really good. I think I told you, I’ve been, like, redoing my backyard, so, like, we’re almost done, so I’m really happy about that. But I was just super excited about this podcast today because we’re going to have our best friends on. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yay! 


Dr. Imani Walker: And um I know and I love my best friend and of course, I know you love your best friend too, but I’m just happy that they get to be a part of our show. So I’m super excited. 


MegScoop Thomas: Wait, hold on. I got to ask you just real quick. Is your best friend a guy or a girl? 


Dr. Imani Walker: My best friend is a girl. 


MegScoop Thomas: Do you think it’s possible to be best, like, really good friends with the opposite sex? Just friends. 


Dr. Imani Walker: So, yeah, absolutely. I will say I definitely will say that when I was younger, like, you know, like little. So when I was, I think my first first best friend in life um when I lived in like Syracuse, New York, was this little, this little girl who lived uh next door to me. And then I moved to Texas, to Arlington, Texas. And then my best friend was like, uh, this dude. Um. His name was Hasan. And he was two doors down from me. And we were like, best, best, best friends. I actually had, like, a good run of male best friends pretty much all the way until. Yeah, even through high school. Like, even, like one of my like best friends from high school um lives out here in L.A. and um and we’re we’re I mean, we’ve been best friends pretty much since, I guess I was probably like 14 or 15. So yeah, I definitely think that people of the opposite sex can be best friends. I mean, my, my mom has best friends who are men. And, you know, it was always platonic and it was never you know, it was never weird like that. I know that um I saw somewhere that Steve Harvey, like he wrote he wrote that book. And I was like, first of all, I don’t even know who asked you to write a book about relationships. I think because he had that talk show a while ago and people will go on air and ask him, I was like, Stop asking Steve. Stop asking Steve Harvey um questions about your relationship. First of all, his suits are too big. His suits were way too big back then, and he has a caterpillar on his face. Don’t ask that, man no um, don’t ask that man no uh advice about your relationship, girl. But he wrote a book and basically was like, well, men and women can’t be best friends, I’m sure, because the sex would get involved. But I mean, I just feel like it’s those types of arguments that kind of feed into this, you know, dominant patriarchal culture of, you know, ooo girls, you, you know, you can’t wear that outside because, you know, men don’t have any control over over their uh sex drive. And if you wear a miniskirt, he gonna go and rape you. It’s like, what are you talking about? Like, that’s– 


MegScoop Thomas: Well wait hold on, I will have to say this. I do. I agree with you. However, I also will say I have to put a little caveat here. I don’t think men and women can be friends unless the relationship is like a brother, sister relationship or platonic. And I say that because if they’re halfway handsome or halfway beautiful, like it’s easy to be attracted to somebody that you have so much in common with. Think about it like any of your best friends in life, like it’s easy to be attracted to them. But if you look at them like a brother or sister. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Then to me it’s like, okay, well then yeah, we for sure can be friends, but it got to be that kind of relationship. Because I’ll be honest, any woman that ain’t looking at my man like her brother, I don’t. I got to look at their relationship like what you what you over here talking to him for. That’s just me. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: I’m just that old school.


Dr. Imani Walker: I mean. Yes, I mean, I’ll even say. I’ll even freely admit that I’ve been I have really good friends that are male and I was in relationships with them like a long time ago. And a lot of that is because I was terrible at relationships back way back when like in college, let’s say, and we kind of in a way like grew up together. I have a really good friend from college and you know, I’ve talked to his wife and I even gave her advice. I was like, Girl, let me tell you about him, okay? He’s going to be this way and that way. And I’m just telling you that, you know, look out for it. And she was like, you know what, you absolutely right. And I was like, yeah, like I I’m like, listen, I have no and I told her I was like, just in case he has not said this and I’m sure he has we are not that way any any more. We haven’t been for years. And he and I are still really good friends. I know it’s not possible with everyone, um but there just comes a certain point where like, I don’t know, like I’ve stopped being in a relationship with somebody. And then I moved on and then I just stopped thinking about, you know, what’s going on in their groin area. I’m like, I don’t care. Like, that’s your business, you know? Like, I like I’m just like, I like our relationship wasn’t just sex. And we talked about a lot of different stuff and um, you know, I’m not saying we talk every day or like even like once a week, but, you know um, I, I will consider I would consider some of the people that I dated in the past and I mean a long time ago, like still friends of mine. So I think it depends. I don’t think that it’s something that most people can do, but I can I’m just like, well, I’m done with you so. 


MegScoop Thomas: [laugh] Right. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Like, you know. 


MegScoop Thomas: And you know, I’ve had I have um some guy friends, but to me, the reason why we work so well as friends, we’ve always been friends like from day one is because it was like a brother sister relationship and any new relationship that I got in, my guy friend like knew my man, like I introduced them. They’re frien– like they’re friends too, like they’re, not like they would hang out, but they’re cool to where we could all go out somewhere and they could go off in a corner, go grab a drink. I could be open, you know what I’m saying? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right, right, right. 


MegScoop Thomas: Like it always that kind of easy–


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Going-ness. And I think unless you had, if you don’t have that, then there’s something that’s going on. You got to question like what is the issue? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. Now, that’s that that’s absolutely true. But I’m really excited to get I’m really excited for this particular episode because like I said, our best friends are on and we’re still in our REALationship series. So let’s get this mental party started. [music break] Let’s kick off the show with a fun segment we like to call, ask Dr. Imani anything. This is the moment in the show we get to connect with you, and you can literally ask me anything. Tell us what’s on your mind, and we will give you our solicited and unsolicited advice. For those of you who are new to the crew. Let me tell you how to get in touch with us. Submit your questions around mental health, life, or any problems preventing you from achieving a healthy mindset to our email address: 


MegScoop Thomas: And since we love options on this show, people can also text or leave us a voicemail at 818-252-9462. Now that we have the technical stuff out the way, let’s get into this letter. And today’s letter comes from Shervonne. And here is what she had to say. Dr. Imani I need your help with a longtime friend of mine. We are basically sisters and have been friends for over 14 years. However, I have been feeling guilty for not wanting to be around her. Ever since the start of the pandemic, she has been extremely negative. I feel bad that I start to get tense or roll my eyes when I see her calling me. Lately I’ve been avoiding even hanging out together. When she calls me, I hang up feeling depressed and drained. All she ever wants to do is talk about people, politics, and the world ending. We recently had a huge fight and we never fight because she started complaining about me. She feels that I don’t care about her or our friendship anymore. She had the nerve to say that I am the one that changed. She proceeded to list off years of problems she had with me, and I hung up that call in tears. We haven’t talked in two weeks. And Dr. Imani, can I tell you it has been the happiest and most peaceful two weeks. I don’t want to throw away 14 years of friendship, but I don’t want to be drained of all my energy when I am around her. Can long lasting friendships have an expiration date? She is so toxic now. I keep telling myself she is just depressed and I need to be there for her. But should it be at the cost of my own peace of mind? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So, Shervonne, first of all, thank you for your letter. And uh let me just read to you what you wrote to us. We haven’t talked in two weeks. And Dr. Imani, can I tell you, it has been the happiest and most peaceful two weeks. Okay. So that really is to me at the crux of your question, like I say this all the time when we have listener letters, but a lot of times you guys answer the question in your own letters. And I think that’s really, you know, at the root of it. So. I don’t want for you Shervonne to think that you’re throwing away 14 years of friendship. So I you know, I will say I’ve been in relationships where, you know, whether they be romantic or like, you know, best friend situations. I’m a very loyal person and I will stick it out for years and years. But there will come a day when I just wake up and I’m like, yeah, this isn’t working for me. And then I have to like, you know, tell the person like, yo, you know, I’m a I’m a, you know, I’m very, I’m very pragmatic and I’m like, okay. So I made a spreadsheet about um, you know, so compared to when I first met you, these are all the qualities I liked about you. But compared to now, like, these are the qualities that are really, you know, impeding, you know, our relationship from moving forward. And because of that, like, you know, I need to walk away. I don’t want for you to think that you’re throwing away 14 years of friendship because during those 14 years you grew into who you are now, and this person grew into who they are now. And maybe, you know, look, maybe this person is depressed like you hypothesized. Maybe she’s going through some other things that you’re not aware of. But I will say this, whether this person whether your, you know, best friend is depressed or not, if it’s not serving you, then you need to walk away. And if you have had happy and peaceful, you know, two weeks, you know, since you stopped talking to this person, then, you know, I always tell myself, like, you know, I’m very selfish when it comes to my, you know, well-being. And if I don’t feel right about it, then, you know, I’ll walk away. When I was younger, I literally would just walk away and like, I would just ghost people all the time. But, you know, now that I’m older and I realized that’s just a terrible way to end a friendship, I will have a conversation like yo let me tell you, you know, like, this is why I can’t fuck with you, you know, moving forward. And actually, this this kind of happened to me. I had a best friend since high school, since ninth grade. And in the middle of college, you know, like we we just changed. And she was going through some things. And the way she handled it, I just didn’t agree with. I didn’t tell her at the time. And I just basically ghosted her. And I want to say, maybe a couple of years ago, um you know, we reconnected through social media and she wrote me this really long letter and she was like, yo, you know, I’m really sorry about how things ended and this, that, and the third. And I told her I was like, yo, it was, you know, I don’t want you to put the blame on yourself. But, you know, I did not handle the situation. We obviously grew into different people and there’s nothing wrong with that. And it sounds like you’ve grown Shervonne into who you are, but your friend has grown into a different version than the person that you initially met, or maybe the person that, you know, you thought you knew, you know, up until like a year, a couple of years ago. You know, you can always you know, my advice to you would be to say, you know, listen, it sounds like you’re going through a lot. And of course, everyone’s going through a lot during this time. You know, it might be you might want to investigate, maybe, you know, talking to somebody at the very least, um you know, getting your help just to get your mentals together. But uh, you know, for right now, I need to take a break from this because I just feel better when I actually don’t have communication with you. And of course, you know, she gonna be hurt and be like, how dare you? Or however, you know, she responds. But like I said, when it comes to your well-being, I always choose the route of being selfish for myself because I don’t I don’t like to invite bad energy into my life. So. So, Meg, what what do you think? 


MegScoop Thomas: I want to say you can love people from afar. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: And it doesn’t mean that you don’t love them. You just need to take some space. I mean, I’ve had that happen a couple of times in my mind, you know, in my life, like I was the depressed friend, you know what I’m saying? And I was the one that was like, and one of my best friends was just like, yo, we don’t really talk that much. And like she and she’s, and the reason why we ended up not being friends for a while was because she was like, I love you so much as my friend. Like, I can’t continue to see you go through what you’re going through and then like, I can’t do anything about it. You’re not going to do anything about it. Like, I can’t be that person that– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Just listens to your your depressive talk and that’s just it. So, you know, and we weren’t friends for a couple of years and then we just recently reconnected and like, we’re back to being besties, love her, but you know, she, she had to kind of tell me about myself. And so it’s okay cause sometimes maybe she is going through something, but you just tell her like, hey, I’ll be here, you know, once you get through what you’re going through. But this is bringing me down. We can’t both be in the mud. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: I mean we can’t both be, one of us got to be able to lift the other one up. So when you’re ready for that, let your girl know. And then the other part is, sometimes you got to remember and I heard this in church a long time ago and I, it has stuck with me. There are different circles of friends in your life and you need to recognize who goes where. The closest inner circle that you have. Maybe you only get one or two people in that circle in a lifetime and they’re usually there for your entire life. But that’s like one or two people. And then you’ve got the circle outside of that. And those are friends that, you know, they’re, they might be cool a couple of years, couple months. They come and go and then outside of that is like associates. They’re not really your friends like that, but you know, y’all are cool cordial. So I always keep that in mind because everybody doesn’t deserve to be in that space of like my friend forever, like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yup. 


MegScoop Thomas: With one or two people. And that can be interchangeable. So if this girl is is your one or two people, but she acting up. Well, then just know she got to move out to one of the circles on the outside of that. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. She can demote her to an associate. She can be demoted. Yeah. It don’t mean she can’t come back inside the inner circle, but like, for right now, she just it’s like, hey, you know what? I’m a take a break, um you know. Do you and you know, like Meg said, like when you ready, you know, let me know. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Let me know. But–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah and you don’t get you may not, you know. And that hurt me too, because my friend, that was not my friend for a while. I thought she was my inner circle friend forever. We were soul mates or best friends, whatever. And then we ended up not being friends. And then I was like, what am I supposed to do? Cause I thought this was like, there was no expiration date on this friendship. I thought we was going to make it to the end of our life. And it was a break. And I didn’t know that at the time, but it was like a two year break for us. So maybe that’s what y’all got to go through. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s not, it’s honestly, isn’t it, it’s not the end of the world, but it could definitely be the beginning for you, Shervonne, to just, you know, have some peace, like you said. Like it’s I definitely have been um like you, Megan. I definitely have been the person to just kind of like, oh, um you know, just complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain. And, you know, I didn’t real– when I was younger and I didn’t realize how toxic that could really be, you know, to the person. Like, it’s not really fair to, you know, the other, the people that I was calling and talking to. And it made, you know, it made everyone think that I was just a drama queen. And I had to, you know, my my friend told me that. She was like, well, yeah, you’re like a drama queen. And I was like, Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold up, hold up. I was like, I don’t want to be a drama queen. Like, I need to check myself. Um. And I did. And I was really happy that, you know, she was able to tell me so, you know. So Shervonne, I hope that was helpful for you. Thank you again for submitting your question and I hope our advice was helpful. So Shervonne’s letter is right on target for today’s REALationship as we continue to seek out the relationships that shape who we are, how we think and affect our mental health. The next relationship we want to examine is the one with our friends. Our friends are the people we feel understand us the most, the people you trust without any questions. But sometimes, like Shervonne’s situation, they can be tricky or emotional. Breaking up with a friend can hurt worse than a significant other. That’s true. So that’s what Meg and I are going to talk about today. The dynamics, energy, and relationships with our friends. What does your circle of friends say about you? What is your relationship with your besties? So hold that thought, because we are diving in after the break. 




Dr. Imani Walker: Welcome back. I’m not going to lie. This month has been mad real. All month long we’ve been taking a deep dive into how our relationships shape our mental states. I’m hoping with this series we all create self-awareness, evaluate the relationships we’ve built or the ones we need to restructure. I am so excited for today’s topic. The REALationship we are going to examine today is all about the relationships we have with our friends. Our friends are often the family we get to choose and often play a big influence on our day to day. So it’s interesting because when it comes to my friends, I actually recently hosted a Zoom call where all of my friends got to basically meet each other. Uh. This would include like my friends from medical school, um my my best friend Chezik, who you guys are about to meet and hear from a couple of my friends that I’ve met, like during, you know, like the online experience. So I would say over the past like 15, 16 years. And it was interesting because all of them either I’m sorry, two of them knew each other or already, Chezik and Davita, but the rest of them actually ended up knowing each other either by like knowing each other directly or were separated by like one degree of separation. So it was really wild, it was really, really awesome. And I was really, really happy about that. No, it was dope. Now, I will freely admit I don’t talk to my friend circle as much as I need to, because I do tend to kind of like be a little bit more isolative. And then I’m like, I’m a [?] with my own problem, and then all of a sudden I’ll call my best friend or I’ll text her and she’ll be like, Oh my God, what’s wrong? And I’m like, Everything is stupid. And I should’ve said something earlier. And, and oh my God. And she’s like, okay, so we’re just going to breathe it out and we’re going to be fine. So, you know, my, my friend circle is, you know, I don’t tend to utilize them as often, but they mean everything to me. Meg, how does your friend circle like how like what what’s your relationship with them? And, and, you know, how how did they play into your day to day in your life in general? 


MegScoop Thomas: Girl. Everything. Okay? Because, like, to me, your girlfriends are the ones that you can like. You know, you they say you should share everything with your partner, but I feel like there’s just some things. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: That I just want to tell my homegirl, you know what I’m saying? Like, you know, when– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –Me and you’ll hear from my, one of my great friends, Marisa, we’ll, we’ll talk about like our guys in our life we’ll talk about like, you know, our experience being moms saying things that we don’t think other people like that’s politically correct to say to other people. But we like, we gon say it to each other, like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: –That’s what your friends do to you. There’s a whole you can put that wall away when it comes to your friends. You can just honestly be yourself. And to me, we need that, especially when you’re Black and you got to you know, you got to put that mask on when– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yup. 


MegScoop Thomas: –you’re around certain people. You can really just, ain’t no code switching. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: There’s no code switching. Right.


Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 


MegScoop Thomas: You just, you just are who you are with your friends. So important and it’s so freeing.


Dr. Imani Walker: No it is. It is. And it’s it’s it’s actually been like so much better for me to be able to rely on my bestie, especially during the pandemic, because during this whole situation, this, this pandemonium, if you will, um she actually ended up like getting a house um out here in L.A. So she’s been like, actually, she’s going to come this weekend, which is really which I’m really excited about. So so I’ll get to see her. So I see her all the time now, which is awesome. So enough about talking about our BFFs. You guys are going to meet our BFFs because we felt that it only made sense to invite our BFFs, our besties, to join the conversation today. So, everybody, I would like for you to meet my best, bestest best friend in the whole wide world, Chezik. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Yay! Hi, everybody! 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yay! 


MegScoop Thomas: Hi Chezik. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: You know, I really like your name. Where– What is that? What’s the origin? 


Chezik Tsunoda: It’s a long, it’s a long, long story. I tell you, I used to get into any Uber or any cab and someone will tell you that it’s from their you know their place of origin so– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Country. Yeah.


Chezik Tsunoda: It’s like Egypt and it’s Russian, you know, you name it. But– 


MegScoop Thomas: Ambiguous. 


Chezik Tsunoda: –my dad just found it in a magazine, an Egyptian model. So there you go. 


MegScoop Thomas: Boom. There you go. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Nice. 


MegScoop Thomas: And I want to introduce you guys to one of my best friends in the whole world. We have a mommy podcast together as well. Marisa. Hi Marisa. 


Marisa Johnson: Hi! This feels weird. I’m like, is this our podcast? This is not our podcast. [laughter] 


MegScoop Thomas: I know we’re like switching gears. We’re like, which podcast are we on today? 


Marisa Johnson: As a guest. How’s everyone doing good? [laughing]. 


MegScoop Thomas: Good. Good. [indistinct]


Dr. Imani Walker: Good good, hi Marisa. 


Marisa Johnson: Hi. 


MegScoop Thomas: Okay I have to hear this origin story, Imani and Chezik. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, my God, oh, my God. So Chezik, let me. Okay wait, I’ll start. And then we can kind of like go back and forth because one of the things I wanted to touch on today is like how to deal with a toxic friendship. Okay? So and that’s kind of part of our origin story. 


MegScoop Thomas: [laugh] I got to hear that. I got to hear this. Okay.


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So I met Chezik, I want to say 20 some odd years ago. What year are we in 2022? Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: We don’t need to be specific. 20 plus. 


Dr. Imani Walker: 20 plus years ago. No, because remember, we were going to have our our 20 year like anniversary party, which we still can have. And honestly, I think it’s this year. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Is it?


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, I think it’s this year. So. So we’ve been best friends for 20, 20 years. I met Chezik because we’re not going to name name the person. But I had a friend. She and I both lived in Harlem and we went to this party. She was like, oh, my friend Chezik is havi– throwing this party. And this was back when like, you know, Brooklyn in Fort Greene was like the place, like if you were Black and you were like, you know, with it and you, you know, was in the know, like you would be in Fort Greene all the time. And I definitely can say that I was. So we went to this party. I remember meeting Chezik and I remember like for some reason I was like, okay, I can’t tell if I like her or not. Like I either don’t like this person or I really do like this person. But I didn’t really get a chance to engage with her very much. But I was happy that she was very organized during the party and that she did have uh gift bags and I forgot what it was for, and I swear to God I forgot the name of the restaurant. Cause– 


Chezik Tsunoda: Called Buttercup. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Buttercup. Yes. Oh, my God. It was right off of DeKalb Avenue. I forget what the party was for, but I did have a good time. Um. And so myself and Chezik shared this– we had a mutual friend, and then we started, like, the three of us. Excuse me. I’m sorry. Chezik you go ahead. You you– 


Chezik Tsunoda: No it’s okay I’m just like. So, yeah, we all started hanging out. It was beautiful. It was like. 


Dr. Imani Walker: It was fun. 


Chezik Tsunoda: I secretly wanted us to be Sex in the City. So I brought in, like, another friend because I was like, [laughter] hey. Let’s be like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: That’s right. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Let’s be the four like, cute Black girls, like, running New York, you know? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And so it was at actually that dinner um when our other friend, our mutual friend was going out of town. And so I was like, oh, my gosh, Imani. Like, by the way, our maiden names are both Walker. So I was like, we’re secret sisters. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yes. Yeah. [laughing]


Chezik Tsunoda: Um. I was like, so hype up on that, too. And then basically I was like getting her number because it was always, you know. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. We always had to go through our mutual friends. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And so I was like, oh my gosh, so what are you doing this weekend? Like, let’s do something. And she was like, you are my friend, you are my friend. You two are not friends. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Which of course meant, which of course meant. I was like, oh, oh is this what we’re doing? Like, are you really trying to control my life? So that, of course, meant that I was like, now we, me and Chezik is best friends. 


Chezik Tsunoda: But what– 


MegScoop Thomas: Why do people do that? That’s crazy, like y’all can’t be friends. What?


Chezik Tsunoda: Well, listen. Listen. Let’s keep it really real now. It’s hard to find good friends. It’s hard to–


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: –find best friends. And so when you do have someone, there is potentially this fear. That’s why polyamory is not a thing, right, with marriage, because you’re like you my boo. I don’t want anybody to, you know what I mean? So it’s like a similar jealousy or potential jealousy when you’re like, wait a minute, y’all gonna do something without me. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


Chezik Tsunoda: So here’s what I will say. We did continue like she got over the hump. We did continue. And then one year I did a birthday party in New York and I did a birthday party in L.A. and it was just us, actually, because they had both moved. They both left me.


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, we both moved to L.A. and that was the trip when I was like, Chezik. You should stay with me. Because I was staying at my parents house and we and I had a bunch of room and my parents were out of town. I was like, Chezik, you should stay with me. And you were like, no, it’s cool. I’m a stay with her. Okay, go ahead. [laughter]


Chezik Tsunoda: We had like some initial, like, cool stuff going on and we were out to dinner and we were hanging and it was my birthday weekend. So I was like, yo, let’s get a bunch of people like rah rah. She was not having it. She literally kicked me out of the car in L.A.. 


Dr. Imani Walker: At night, like in the middle of the night. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And I was like, you’re joking, right? And she was like, get out of the car. Like she wasn’t moving. So it was this whole thing because for whatever reason, I don’t know how old I was turning, but it was like my driver’s license was expired and so I couldn’t rent a car like it was this– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: –Whole thing. And then the last straw. The last, last straw, which that should have been the last straw. But I’m like a forgive and forget and I know you’re going through shit, you know? And then the last straw was Imani was in my wedding and she was planning to come to the wedding, but then she saw that Imani was in the wedding. And so that was, that was it. I don’t want to spend too much time on her. Bottom line, Imani, shablew we’ve been through it. We’ve fought for this. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


Chezik Tsunoda: We fought for this. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah we’ve been. Yeah we’ve been through throughiggity through it. If I were Das EFX that’s what I would say. 


Chezik Tsunoda: We got divorced together. We did all of it together. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, we did it. Yeah, we did it all together. 


Chezik Tsunoda: We been it. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Look at that. Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: So, yeah. Y’all go. Y’all go. Meg and Marisa. Y’all go.


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, so we met at church okay. Me and Marisa. We had like a very thriving young adult like group at church. And I had just moved to L.A. and Marisa was in there and I was just her vibe. Like I just liked her, I was like, something about her is really cool. Like, I could tell she was not churchy, churchy because I grew up churchy churchy and I was like, I don’t want none of that. And so I didn’t want to hang with people that were just, like, super churchy. And she just was like, cool. Like, it’s like, okay, you love God, but you not over here at church like eight days a week. So I appreciate that. [laughter] And then so we, you know, we hit it off. We were really cool. Then Marisa left, she moved away. And next thing you know, I see she’s getting married. And I was like, wait, what? Like, Marisa, you had a whole boyfriend? Like, what is this? I thought I knew you a little bit better than that. Like you just up and got married. But she ended up marrying, like, a longtime friend. And it was. It happened really quick. She moved back to L.A., and I was so happy because then, like, I was like, okay, I’m getting to experience you. Experience you in a different light in our life. She ended up uh her and her husband had their first child, and then I had my child like a year after that. So we were both experiencing mommy hood at the same time, but we were both kind of like in postpartum depression, which now I just say it was a lack of support that we had um in different areas, but we both were just going through it. We would call each other and be like, is the poop supposed to look like this or like. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: I really I don’t really want to do this today. Like, can I just drop my kid off somewhere and just, like, go drink? Like, so we were both saying things that we didn’t feel was safe to say in public because we might lose our kids to CPS. Right. But but she and I just kind of bonded over that and out of it grew our our mommy podcast. Mommy Needs a Break where we literally just talk about like experiences being moms. And we got really close doing that to the point where, you know, now that I don’t live in L.A., but I’m always in L.A. when I come to L.A. it’s only there’s two people that I stop by and see. And Marisa is one of them, and I usually be like, let me get that uh, that guestroom. And now she’s got two babies. I got two babies. I be in there doing their hair like those are my babies too. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh nice. That’s so sweet. 


Marisa Johnson: And you were there and you were magically there when I gave birth to the second one. 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh, my gosh. Yes. 


Marisa Johnson: You were the first person she met. Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: That’s right. Yeah, her daughter. And we have this little bond, her two year old, that’s me and her because I was there. Yes, I was in L.A. 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: When she was born. I came by the hospital, I was like she waited for me, she’s here. 


Chezik Tsunoda: That’s so special. 


Marisa Johnson: And I think like uh what you said was super important. Like we would say things that we didn’t think were politically or acceptable. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Marisa Johnson: And I think that we had each other in those moments, you know, through like motherhood, through new relationships, because we’re both like fair– in new, rel– new situations. And I think the podcast helped us kind of like get out of that, like not be afraid of like how we feel, like how we say things like I feel like it broke us out of our shells when it comes to just being unapologetically like moms, entrepreneurs, having significant others, you know, it just helped. Our friendship to me like has really helped us kind of blossom into like– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Marisa Johnson: –What we are today for sure. 


Dr. Imani Walker: That’s so awesome. I know. I love that. No. I really love that. I’m just wondering. So we’re in the middle of this pandemic and I know that for me and Chezik like she mentioned, like we both went through like divorces together. Um. 


Chezik Tsunoda: During the pandemic. 


Dr. Imani Walker: During the pandemic. 


Marisa Johnson: Oh wow. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Which I mean, really was just proof that we didn’t need to be with the people that we were with. Not not I’m I’m not saying like we shouldn’t have ever been with them, but the pandemic really just kind of like stripped everything away and just made, you know, each of us, I guess, see who the other person was like, for real, for real, like we knew. But then it was like, oh, hold hold up? Uh uh. Like, I don’t need this. I don’t I don’t want to deal with this no more. And that definitely was, that definitely. I mean, we’ve bonded over I mean, I, so much stuff, but I think that was one of the things that, like I had, I had actually started the divorce process the one month before the pandemic started and Chezik was in the middle of it. Um. I think, you started it. Was it after the pandemic or right before? 


Chezik Tsunoda: It was dur– I mean, yeah, regardless, but yes. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Right around the same– 


Marisa Johnson: Like it happened. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: I don’t want to get into dates. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right, right. Yeah. But, but I think, but I think now, I mean, thinking about, you know, where we are now versus where we were back then, I mean, Chezik is out here in these streets flourishing and thriving and I’m so happy. And the other day I was like, I’m so proud of you. Like, look at all the stuff you did over the past year and like you out here. And she she made a movie and she made a documentary, and she’s been showing in film festivals. And and it’s been if you want to go and plug your movie real quick. But yeah, like, I’m just I’m just so like. Like Chezik’s. The relationship I have with Chezik is one that like, like I have friends that I’ve had for, you know, even longer than I’ve known Chezik, but I don’t know. But like, I think something about me and her. Like, we just, like there’s times when I’m like, maybe we was married in the past or like, or something. Like, I just feel like we just like when we met, like it was just like, oh, my God, like we soulmates. Like we, like we like we best friends forever. And we had the same last name. I was like, Oh, my God, I stop. [laughter]


Chezik Tsunoda: I do. Yeah. I think that there’s like, an ener– like there was definitely an immediate energy, but I do also think that like when you go through things like y’all doing the, the, like parenting thing together, like when you go through hard stuff with someone and they really feel you on a different level that just like, deepens, you know, like it’s been amazing how we’ve been able to be there for each other. Like we put everything down, you know, even kind of in the middle of like Imani filming her show. I had a tragic loss and she left the taping and called me and was there, you know what I mean? And so. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh yeah, I was like bye. 


Chezik Tsunoda: When you have people like that that you know, you can legit count on for whatever whenever it’s you know that’s true blue real and yes there’s been a past life. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Legit, you know. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah well Chezik, you you be in to psychics. So did did you ask your psychic if we was like soul mates before? [pause] [laugh] Chezik got like ten seconds. [laughter]


Chezik Tsunoda: No! I will now I just really go to like, I have one psychic and I do like um basically a quarterly situation, you know, um and every now and then–


Dr. Imani Walker: A quarterly psychic check in, I feel that.


Marisa Johnson: Megan, remember the psychic you sent me? That girl’s good too. 


MegScoop Thomas: I know. Oh, yeah, we got somebody and that girl be on point. Okay. And I was like, okay, well, I got to pray before this, so then tell me what happened. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Please send me her number. Please send me. Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Oh we got you girl. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And it’s not even like, it’s not even trying to read the future. It’s just like, Am I okay? You know what I mean? 


MegScoop Thomas: Mmm hmm. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And I’ll keep it real that sometimes like, I just do that with Imani, literally last week we had a conversation where I was like, Am I okay? Like somebody told me– 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: –My work life is really great, but my personal life is not so great. And I was like, Imani. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Girl, I got so mad. Listen, you okay? Let me tell you something. We had this conversation right the other day, and I didn’t ask who it was like, I’m not going to ask now because we’re obviously taping. But I was like I was like uh uh I was like, who? Who is out here trying to talk shit about my best friend? I was like, First of all, your personal life is not in shambles. Who said that? Who like, who said it so? So I can find the person like, you know, whose pers– your personal life is in shambles, bitch. Don’t be out here talking about my best friend like that. She out here making movies ho. You you have done not one thing like that so get out of my face I was so mad– girl I was so mad. I was so– 


Chezik Tsunoda: But you need though, right? That’s what you need. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Chezik Tsunoda: As honestly, there is a bit of truth to that and I need to like reflect on that moment. But I–


Dr. Imani Walker: No. 


Chezik Tsunoda: But I also need somebody that’s got my back so hard that it’s like, yo, you’re doing a good job, because sometimes that’s all we need, right? We need the reassurance. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And we know if we go to our best friend and tell them all the joints that we need to tell them. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


Chezik Tsunoda: And then she’ll be like, Yo, I still love you. You still doing good. Like, keep it moving. You know? 


MegScoop Thomas: Damn. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: That’s exactly why I love Marisa. Marisa has done that. 


Marisa Johnson: Megan. Megan. [laugh]


MegScoop Thomas: She’s [laugh] she’s so non-judgmental and she’s just like, okay, let’s, you know, until it gets to the point where she, like, girl you got to go, you got to stop, or you got, you know, she’s like, you know, she’s really true with it. And then when it hits a certain point, she will tell me the honest to God truth to the point where even for our mommy podcasts, I was doing too much. You know. I was like eight months pregnant, trying to shoot in person. Like. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Mm mm girl. 


MegScoop Thomas: How many? Like ten episodes in person. And it took, over a two days span. 


Dr. Imani Walker: No! 


MegScoop Thomas: That takes a lot of coordination. Right. And so in my head, I could do all this. Right? I was like, I got to get this done before the baby comes. She was like, Absolutely not. Stop. She told our social media team she’d aleady was like, No, we’re not doing this. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: Megan no. And we’re going to take a hiatus until TBD. I was like, really? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Why? Like, I can do it. And then I thought about it. 


Marisa Johnson: We’re still on a hiatus. 


MegScoop Thomas: I was like oh my gosh you’re so right. We’re still on a hiatus, we’re gonna be on high for a while, okay? And I’m so appreciative for her doing that because there was no way that I was going to be able to get all of that done you know. But she was just like, You doing too much girl, sit down. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: That’s it. And we accept it from our friends, right? Because if my mom– 


Marisa Johnson: Absolutely. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Told me that, I would have been like, um– 


Marisa Johnson: Yes. 


Chezik Tsunoda: No. But if– 


MegScoop Thomas: Like you don’t know Sister Thomas. 


Marisa Johnson: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: Don’t. You don’t know my life, Mom. 


Chezik Tsunoda: That’s right. 


Marisa Johnson: That’s fine, that was personal. 


Chezik Tsunoda: But if like your best friend tells you that, like I know you got my back like that, you know? 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, honestly, I think I was just thinking about, like, I was like, have we ever had an argument? Like, I don’t know if we’ve ever had an argument. I know that, like, I get really defensive when it comes to Chezik, like okay, I’m a give you an example because we actually never talked about. So Chezik had um with her with her film. She had a screening in Santa Barbara. So um, so me and my boyfriend, we drove uh to Santa Barbara and it was, it was great. Like, I mean, I was like, oh my God, my best friend did this, even when. So Chezik also used to be a producer of VH1 back in the day. And I remember, like, watching her shows and like waiting for her name to pop up and just and, like, just screaming in the house and be like, Oh, my God, my best friend did that shit y’all. Like, I was so excited. But so, so we go to the premiere and then afterwards, like, I, like we were at a dinner and it’s, it’s so funny because I’m, I guess, you know, like I am possessive of her, but I don’t necessarily like, you know, I wasn’t going to show it. I knew that she had to move around the crowd and stuff like that. And I, I appreciated when she came over and she gave me like a really good hug and she like kissed me on my cheek because I know that she felt like, you know, like I knew this was work for her and I couldn’t really, like, you know, get a chance to really talk to her. But but when it comes to, Chezik, I’m just like, okay, first of all, like, I need for everybody to, like, be, be be right around me. Okay. Like. Like I need for you to speak in a proper tone when you around me and Chezik because somebody can get slapped, I don’t, like. I think that. That when it comes to Chezik, I definitely get more hype then then maybe I should, because I just feel like, you know, she just needs to be– like I just feel like I need to protect her. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Aww. 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. 


Dr. Imani Walker: And I’m just like. I’m like, first of all, who the fuck is that? Okay. I don’t know. I don’t know this person. And and I know that I need to calm down. So a lot of times I don’t really say anything. 


Marisa Johnson: Has that ever, like, gone wrong? And I ask this because I feel like I’ve been kind of, possessive isn’t the word, over like a friend, but like it’s like– 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


Marisa Johnson: –going too far, where it’s like I’m like, okay, this is my business, not yours. Like, not for you, but for me. Like, been in situations where say my best friend’s going through something and they confide in me and then like I take it out on the person they told me. And then they go back to the person and you’re like, But wait a minute. Like, you know, you just overstep that boundary sometimes. Where I’ve had to learn to like take a step back. This is not– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. 


Marisa Johnson: –My situation. This is not about me. She just confided in me. This is my girl. I love her, but I have to like love from kind of a distance in a sense. 


Chezik Tsunoda: I’m all up in her stuff. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Do we have boundaries? I don’t think we really have boundaries. 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: I’m all up in her stuff, and I think what it. I don’t. I don’t really know why it it hasn’t crossed the line because we probably have like, you know, we tell each other everything. And I definitely have emotions and feelings about people or things, but I’m also, for whatever the reason, I am able to create that boundary for myself in a sense, which is kind of what you’re saying, where I don’t I don’t take it out on the person because I want it to be good for Imani. So if anything, I might be like killing a person with kindness on the other end so that it comes back around in a way. Or I might, you know, I’ve never crossed the line and said, you know, you should do this with Iman–, you know? Well? No.


Dr. Imani Walker: No. 


Chezik Tsunoda: [?] But I will just be like I say things out loud. I’m very comfortable um in saying things out loud when when it needs to be said out loud. You know what I mean like? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


Chezik Tsunoda: To protect her. We are, in a weird way, we protect each other. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Yeah. I think um, you know, one of the I mean, as our relationship has progressed, like, you know, not to get, you know, super like, you know, metaphysical with it if that’s even the word. But like so I’m a Capricorn and my like rising sign or something is cancer and Chezik is a triple cancer. So Chezik, is like just one big, like, feeling sponge. Like, she either is like beaming. Like she’s just like a care bear to me. I see either beaming feelings out or she’s like, taking in feelings and, um, and, and I definitely can get emotional, but I also have this, like, hard candy shell. Um. So I think, like, in the way that Chezik that like she, she will say her feelings like I will hold them and then I’ll be like, okay, we need to have a conversation and I’m a tell you a bunch of stuff and you know, this is how I feel about it. And then she’ll be like, Okay, you know what? Like, I hear you, and we’ll just, you know, we’ll just kind of kind of work it out. But yeah, I can’t really sit here and say that like we’ve had an argument. Yeah, we’ve never had an argument. It’s yeah, we just. I don’t know, like, we just kind of like, vibrate on a certain frequency. I feel like. Like there’s there have even been times I remember when Chezik like, I want to say, maybe you first got married, which made sense. Like, I had, I would I had I maybe went like months without talking to Chezik and then like I, I, I’m not going to sit here and say that I knew something was up. But, you know, when she, you know, did talk to me about like, you know, like I’m going through some things and I was like, okay, that makes sense because, you know, I, I wasn’t going to press because she just got married and, you know, you want like, you know, like that’s your spouse and ya’ll just, you know, building your relationship and being married is completely different than being engaged or being boyfriend/girlfriend. But when it was time to really talk about stuff like, you know, we we will sit down and talk about some stuff like, you know, like who whoever may be in the room. 


MegScoop Thomas: See, I know, see. That’s why. The same thing. Marisa, we’re like, Marissa, there’s been so many times I was like, I’m out of here. I am leaving my fiancee. I’m leaving these kids. I am gone, all right. Like 100%. 


Marisa Johnson: I’m like, what did I say? 


MegScoop Thomas: And she and sometimes she’d should be like, okay, go, girl. Like, All right, okay. But think about it like this. [laughter] Or there’s been times where I’m just like. No. You know, like telling her a situation and not seeing what it really is. And she’s like, ma’am. You need to–


Dr. Imani Walker: That sounds like Chezik. 


MegScoop Thomas: You. Like, you not seeing the writing’s on the wall. You know what I’m saying? She’s I do love you for that Marisa, talking me off the ledge. 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah I mean I think– 


MegScoop Thomas: Plenty of times, or telling me to get on the ledge because sometimes–


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: –you got to jump. 


Marisa Johnson: Yeah. No, I think for me it’s always like it’s not about the other people involved. Obviously the kids are the first interest, but it’s more about like making sure Megan has the right perspective that like what what’s going to what is going to be the best situation for you. Like, it doesn’t really matter what parties are involved. It’s always I’m just more concerned about, Megan. Like what what’s going to be best for you? That’s it. If it’s leave, stay, go. Come home. Whatever that is like. That’s all I’m concerned about. Like– 


MegScoop Thomas: I love you. 


Marisa Johnson: –It’s never like– [laughing] 


Dr. Imani Walker: No. That sounds– 


Chezik Tsunoda: I think that’s the–


Dr. Imani Walker: That sounds like Chezik. 


Chezik Tsunoda: I think that’s the key of being a best friend is like acknowledging and having a deeper understanding of your person. Like, I know Imani. Imani knows me, like, on a different level and understanding how much they can even hear about advice. Like, sometimes you’re just not even in the space to hear advice and you just need that you know person to listen and or maybe just in a little insert of Oh, can you well, what about this? You know, that kind of thing. So I do just think um it’s beautiful knowing our people like we know our people and being able to support each other, you know, in that in that special. It’s a special way. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. I mean, I also think, you know, one of the things that’s been really great about me and Chezik relation me and Chezik’s relationship is that, you know, people grow and they change. And it’s been great knowing that we’ve been able to change and grow and morph into something, you know, into like our own versions of ourselves, but also our relationship, you know, got to grow and morph and change, you know, with our personal changes that of course, are inevitably going to happen because we’re older now. Even to the point, even like one of my other really good friends um, Davita, like Chezik and Davita are like hella cool and they chat and I love that, I always was the person where I felt like if I have a friend and and I have another friend, like I want everybody to, like, vibe with each other. Like that’s what I want. I’m not really like I’m possessive of Chezik, but I also am open to her being able to, you know, like, and maybe eventually love friends that I have because that’s like, like she’s she is like my I can’t even like describe it, like my sister my like I don’t I can’t really like our relationship is a bunch of like different relationships in one. But I just want for, you know, my bestie to be able to, you know, love other people that I love too. 


Marisa Johnson: Yes. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Do you remember? The last thing I have to say really quick is do you remember we I was always like, we’re going to live together like one day. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yes [laughing] 


Chezik Tsunoda: And, you know, like, deep down, I’m still, like, maybe we gonna live together [indistinct]. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Girl, me too. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Many years from now, you know, that’s how much it’s like having that relationship without it is like a partner relationship without the sexual aspect. Even though sometimes I be like damn Imani is so beautiful. [indistinct] [laughing]


MegScoop Thomas: I was going to say, I think y’all in love. Y’all in love. Y’all in love. 


Dr. Imani Walker: We are in love with each other. We are in love with each other. 


MegScoop Thomas: That’s beautiful. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, no, we are in love with each other. No I, like like the people like next to me. They um they they sold their house. And so there’s another family in there. And I was like, damn, like, Chezik should buy that house. And then we can knock these bushes down, and then we can live together, girl. We can live together forever. Like, that’s really like that’s I’m I’m still I’m still about that life. 


MegScoop Thomas: Actually that, you know what. Marisa, we were talking about that with like, kids, like all you need is your friend. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Mmm. 


MegScoop Thomas: Really. You need your [indistinct] [laughing] to help raise your kids, you know, like make sure they– 


Marisa Johnson: That’s like another episode. Like your partner, like what a partner contributes. So. 


MegScoop Thomas: Right. 


Marisa Johnson: What you need from that partner? You know. 


Chezik Tsunoda: Exactly. 


Marisa Johnson: Because a lot of stuff we could do by ourselves. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, no it’s true. 


Marisa Johnson: By ourselves. [whispering]


Dr. Imani Walker: It’s true. 


Chezik Tsunoda: This has been so fun, it’s been so nice– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. 


Chezik Tsunoda: –To like meet you two as well. And see your– 


Marisa Johnson: Yes nice meeting you. 


MegScoop Thomas: We got to hang out. 


Chezik Tsunoda: –best friendness. Yeah well, I’m in LA– 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes! 


Marisa Johnson: No way. I’m in L.A.. I’m in Inglewood right now. 


Dr. Imani Walker: That was super fun. Meg, as always, thank you for being my copilot and a special thank you to our besties, Chezik Tsunoda and Marisa Johnson for dropping by to join the conversation. We’re going to take a quick break, but when we’re back, let’s get into my favorite segment of the show, Pop Culture Diagnosis. [music break] We’re back. This is pop culture diagnosis, a segment where we take a person or a character from a TV show or movie and assess their mental state or, as we say on this show, figure out what the hell is going on with them. Today’s diagnosis is coming from the iconic reboot of Sex and the City. Meg, can you give listeners a quick synopsis of the show and gist like that? 


MegScoop Thomas: Yes, I love it. Okay. So the women of Sex and the City transition from their friendships that they had in their thirties to a more complicated reality of life and friendship now that they’re in their fifties. Sarah Jessica Parker, Cynthia Nixon and Kristin Davis return as Carrie, Miranda, and Charlotte, respectively, uh whereas Samantha has moved to London. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, so which cast member are we diagnosing today? 


MegScoop Thomas: I think we need to diagnose my girl Charlotte. She has a lot going on this season. I actually, to be honest with you. Who would you say you were in the Sex and the City, if you had to pick?


Dr. Imani Walker: Then or now? Like when they first came out? Or now? 


MegScoop Thomas: Both. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So when Sex and the City first came on back in, what was that, the late nineties or whenever? Early 2000s? Um, I was a Samantha mixed with a Carrie. So I was I was definitely kind of like all over the place. I would say that now I’m more like Miranda was back in the day, like back then because Miranda now on this show, is she, I don’t know. She’s not she’s she’s definitely not somebody that I would want to be friends with. Like, she just I don’t know. Miranda, is she it’s it seems like Miranda kind of like really, really settled into her, like, just like hardness and uh. Yeah, I wouldn’t consider myself a Miranda now. I, honestly, I don’t. I really don’t. I really don’t identify with any of uh the cast members that are on the show now. But if I had to pick somebody now, I would say that I’m old school Miranda. So what about what about you? Who were you back then? And who are you now? 


MegScoop Thomas: I would say back then I thought of myself as like Carrie because she was like young, carefree. This is based, you know, most of the season she wasn’t married. She just was living her life, dating different dudes, um doing well in her career. So I always felt like I was Carrie-ish. And then now, And just like that, the new series, I’m sad to say, I kind of feel like Charlotte. Ugh. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: I don’t know if that’s a good thing. Well, because she, Charlotte is, like, very like she’s always kind of been about her family, very homely, taking care of you know the kids. So in that respect, I’m like that because now that’s very much what my life is like. But I also still am very like big in my career and I, I do a lot when it comes to working multiple jobs. Um. So in that, in that essence, I would say maybe Miranda you know, so. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: A little bit a little mixed. But let’s talk about Charlotte. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 


MegScoop Thomas: Um. And what she has going on. If, you know, if you watched Sex and the City back in the day, Charlotte is like the homemaker. She’s always prim and proper. She’s like a square. I feel like she’s still–


Dr. Imani Walker: Very upper East Side. Very.


MegScoop Thomas: Very upper East Side. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: She’s still like that. But it’s a little bit different because now, you know, her kids are grown uh or grown in the sense of like highschool. 


Dr. Imani Walker: They’re like teenagers. Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. Teenagers. Um. So you see her transition to a mom of teenagers. And what that’s like. Teenagers in this day and age, teenagers in New York, because I feel like in the South, teenagers ain’t really like that. 


Dr. Imani Walker: No, no it’s different.


MegScoop Thomas: So [laughing] it’s a little bit different. But, you know, she’s she has her arguments with Miranda. She has you know, she’s teaching her daughters, I guess, about womanhood, which is like, oooh, that’s different. She deals with a child who is gender non-binary. You know. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 


MegScoop Thomas: So she’s dealing with like the the identity of a child who, you know, she doesn’t understand any of this. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 


MegScoop Thomas: Being a prim and proper Charlotte that she is. Um. She also meets a Black woman played by uh Nicole Ari Parker, who is basically the the same version of her but Black. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Exactly. I know. Exactly. It was it was it was so wild um to see. It was so wild to see this one scene that we’ll talk about it in a little bit, but I honestly, I miss freaky Charlotte. Remember freaky Charlotte, remember when Charlotte was was gay when she was almost gay? And of that episode like way back when and um I forgot who it was. One of the characters was like, listen, if you not gonna go down on a woman like, you can’t, you can’t, like, you know, kick it with us no more. Like, you can’t be, like, fake gay girl like you can’t like, yes, it is very nice to be in the company of all these, like, great, accomplished women. But if you ain’t gonna do the deed, like, you know, you can’t just be, like, up in here. So I thought, like, I thought that was really funny. I remember like back, do you remember back when Charlotte was engaged to her fiance at the time was um a doctor and he girl he was like, I mean, just perfect for Charlotte, like, super uptight. But I remember he had, like, an issue, like, with, like he couldn’t, like, ejaculate or he couldn’t like, like, maintain an erection. And it was his whole thing. Um. Yes, I do. I do miss freaky Charlotte a little bit. But but I definitely will say Charlotte is someone who I’ve always believed had anxiety. Like, she she wants things to be the same all the time. And that is definitely indicative of someone who, you know, may have potentially experienced, like trauma because you want you don’t want things to change too much if you’ve ever experienced trauma, because trauma is such an a it’s such a experience that causes a lot of upheaval in your life cause you didn’t see it coming. And so that’s where that’s why after a traumatic event, uh a lot of people will start to uh exhibit behaviors that are like, okay, I want everything to be orderly. I want everything to be the way that I need for them to be, because that control is what they feel they lost when they experience a traumatic, traumatic incident. So. Charlotte, at one point, Miranda and Charlotte are arguing because Miranda disclosed to Charlotte and Kerry that she had like a little like, you know, little affair situation with a with someone that they both know. And Charlotte was so mad and Charlotte said said something to the effect of, well, I don’t understand why everybody just can’t stay the same all the time. And I was like, Charlotte girl. Okay. And that to me is so emblematic of Charlotte and she just wants like throughout And Just Like That, Charlotte just wants everybody to be the same. And I’m like, Charlotte, Carrie’s husband, Big is dead, so, like, things can’t be the same. Um.


MegScoop Thomas: Yes. Samantha’s gone. She’s not talking to you all for real. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Like, Samantha was like, bitch, bye. Like. Like she. [laughing]  Like she was like, uh uh I do not want to be involved in the show, but yeah, I’m just like Charlotte, like, people change even down to her, one of her daughters, like you said, um wanting to be gender non-binary. And Charlotte finds out through the moms at her school that her daughter has decided to change her name to Rock. And when that occurs, like Charlotte is just like, what is happ– like? She’s like, what is happening? Like she really wants her daughter or what she believes is her daughter to, you know, prete– like be be a woman and be, you know, like Charlotte and be like sophisticated and, you know, proper and a bit uptight and very Upper East Side and participate in her like bat mitzvah. And, you know, she’s like, nah, I don’t want to do that. Like, that’s that’s not who I am. And, you know, Charlotte is just. [laughing] Charlotte is just– 


MegScoop Thomas: Loses it. She’s like–


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah she– 


–what? How could you’re my daughter? Like, why could you, why would you do all this stuff? 


Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, she she just resistant. She she just resisted to everything. When Miranda was talking about the person uh that she ended up having, like a little affair situation with, um Miranda had correctly used this person’s, you know, proper pronouns. Which are they/them? And Charlotte was like, Charlotte was like, who are you talking about? Like who, like who, who? And she. And so Carrie was like, no, this is like this person is gender non-binary, and this person goes by they/them. And Charlotte, you could see her, she was flustered like [sigh] and she was like, I don’t understand why everybody just can’t say the same. And I was like, Charlotte, girl, you got to you got to roll with the flow. You got to get with it like like you don’t want the world to pass you by. And then you’re going to be seen as like this curmudgeon and, you know, this, you know just– 


MegScoop Thomas: I love that word. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Curmudgeon. I know I love that word too. I call myself a curmudgeon all the time just like I want everybody to leave me alone. Uh. But yeah, like I like I mean, Charlotte, she’s sweet and she means well, but she just. I mean, I just want Charlotte to have a. I just want her to go to therapy so bad and I think something about her WASPy Upper East Side type of ways are preventing her from like going to a therapist. But I really like Charlotte, almost said Charlotte girl if you out there like she a real person. But, but I really want Charlotte to go to therapy. I really, I really, really do. 


MegScoop Thomas: And definitely get more Black friends. Like real Black friends. 


Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, yeah. Okay, so that that was a thing. Thank you for reminding me. So, yeah, Charlotte and uh and her husband go to uh Nicole Ari Parker’s house and Nicole Ari Parker, you know, has like her friends over and stuff. And Charlotte was like, Oh, hey, hey, girl. How are you doing? Um. You know um, I know you from from Dalton, this private school in New York or something like that. And and a woman was like, well, I’m not her, but I do know who you’re talking about. And I could just feel Charlotte’s whole soul. Just, like, just. Just, like, implode into herself, like, oh, my God. 


MegScoop Thomas: Say it. Look, Black people don’t all look alike. Okay. 


Dr. Imani Walker: I know. I was like, Oh, no Char– I was like, Oh, Charlotte girl. I was like, Oh, no. But I mean Charlotte look, um you know, to whoever writes for the show, if you guys are going to have another season, just, you know, I want to see Charlotte progress a little bit. Um. You know, I I I love Charlotte. Like, you know, she is one of my real friends and Charlotte you you need to, I need for you to get with the times a little bit better. Girl okay? So, yeah, that’s so so my diagnosis for Charlotte is that Charlotte definitely has some anxiety, and she needs to go to therapy. So at the very least. 


MegScoop Thomas: Therapy. Therapy. 


Dr. Imani Walker: At the very least. So thank you, Meg, for bringing Charlotte to the show. Um. And that’s it for pop culture diagnosis. We’ll have another fun character to analyze next week. If you have suggestions for fictional characters out there, you want for me to diagnose, hit me up on Twitter at @doctor_Imani or email the show at Thanks for listening to Imani State of Mind. Thank you, Meg, for co-hosting and thank you to our two best friends, Marisa and Chezik. Uh. This was such a fun episode. We will be back for an all new episode next week. And let’s keep the conversation going. Follow the show on Instagram at @ImaniState ofMind. And again, email us at