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Ira, Louis, and guest co-host Adam Rippon discuss Pope Leo XIV and their favorite Catholic films, RuPaul’s Drag Race All Stars, You’s final season, Netflix’s Madonna series, Cynthia Erivo’s Dracula, and Cooper Koch’s Calvin Klein ad. Rosie O’Donnell joins to discuss her new documentary Unleashing Hope, moving to Ireland, why she’s such a fan of pop culture, and more.

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TRANSCRIPT

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back for an all-new episode of Keep It in a chic New York studio, which I’ve just discovered exists today.

 

Louis Virtel Unmasked, Keep It.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel. I am sitting with Ira Madison which as you know is a rarity on this show. And also if you can’t see us, we’re at a situation where there’s a table in between us. I feel like I’m on the Dick Havett show. I’m Katherine Hepburn with my slack up. I sit like this and then storm out when you ask me about my gardening habit.

 

Ira Madison III This is how they record the podcast now, baby. You gotta have the video, you gotta have The Fern, you have your coffee, your sunnies. Got my iPhone here.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. And then also, of course, the actual tension of an in-person interview, it’s giving Oprah and Meghan Markle. Yeah. I don’t know which one is which.

 

Ira Madison III I can be Meghan.

 

Louis Virtel You think so? Why?

 

Ira Madison III I love Ginger.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. And the area of Montecito.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, and I would, you know, I think I’m more likely to be staying at Tyler Perry’s house.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Against your will? Who knows? And also, we have a guest host today, but not just any guest host, a Keep It returner. And also I think just one of the best people that pop culture has produced in the past few years. He’s an Olympic medalist. And also, again, I’ve said this before about Adam. He is a naturally funny, a gifted, funny person. And I hate when somebody is funny and that’s not their job, because that’s supposed to be our job. But he’s here today. Welcome, Adam Rippon.

 

Adam Rippon You guys, thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor. And I really do love the setup. I love everything about it. I love the TV on wheels. I love the noisy chairs. I love it.

 

Ira Madison III It’s very Jetsons.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, quite. And then there’s some paneling behind us too. Like we’re in like a rec room and I’m wearing little shorts.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Uh, so there’s a lot going.

 

Adam Rippon Next season. I think.

 

Yeah. There’s a lot going on in the world, but Adam, what’s going on with you? Like what’s the tea? That’s what they say.

 

Adam Rippon What’s the tea? That is what they say. Ira, you know, not too much is going on. You know, we have a new pope. My brother got married last weekend, so I was at his wedding.

 

Ira Madison III Where was it?

 

Adam Rippon It was great. It was in Brooklyn.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, OK. We love a Brooklyn wedding.

 

Adam Rippon Yeah, it was at your studio, actually, with the fern. That’s where we had it.

 

Louis Virtel The Maid of Honor sat in this swivel chair.

 

Ira Madison III This is Midtown, baby, okay? Brooklyn would have exposed brick and someone would be DJing in the back.

 

Louis Virtel I just want to say, so we’re in Bryant Park right now. And I’m still such a New York Pollyanna, I see the words Bryant Park, and I’m like, and Tim Gunn is going to greet me there, and he’s going to talk about my asymmetrical hemline.

 

Ira Madison III I love Bryant Park. I used to frequent Bryant Park when I first moved here in like 07, because I worked for briefly. I worked with Us Weekly and, or people- Wow. Well, I did work for people too, but Us Weekly, I think it was Us Weekly or In Touch Weekly I think. They would throw you out like a red carpet? I had no, I had to do the, back before it was just Instagram, right? And people would just comment. I had to do the pulls that were in the magazine. Like out asking the real people in the street in Bryant Park. That’s what I was saying. That’s what I was saying.

 

Adam Rippon Oh, wow. Oh, so you were the one going and asking the tough questions and getting the data together.

 

Ira Madison III Pre-TikTok man on the street. It’d be like, what are you… What do you think of Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey on blah, blah, blah, you know, and that eventually, baby, I just started making that shit up.

 

Louis Virtel Also, by the way, it doesn’t surprise me. I would kill to be asked about Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey. Can someone please, at any time of the night, at any warehouse party, please just come up and what do you think of the song with you? And the answer is. Six out of ten?

 

Ira Madison III Six outta ten?

 

Adam Rippon I loved with you. I mean, I really love Jessica Simpson as a person in the zeitgeist. There’s a video of Ashley and Jessica performing together. I can’t remember when it was or where it was. It honestly doesn’t matter and it’s irrelevant to this video. But they are just yelling at each other. And it is… It’s incredible. It’s like they… I love those Simpson sisters so much. And they’re both billionaires, aren’t they?

 

Louis Virtel At least Jessica is, certainly.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Ashley’s in the Ross dynasty now, so she has access to billions.

 

Louis Virtel Right, correct, correct. No, they have like a playful contentiousness that reminds me of when you see footage of Melanie Griffith with Dakota Johnson, like they’ll just snip it up at each other, those ladies.

 

Ira Madison III Mother daughter.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. But I also want to say about Jessica Simpson that once upon a time, it was my belief and a little bit still is, that among the main four pop girls of that time, Britney, Christina, Mandy, Jessica, Jessica had my two favorite songs, which were, I Think I’m In Love With You and A Public Affair. Now, am I mentally ill?

 

Ira Madison III Those are iconic songs. Was she the best of the best? If you’re ranking of her in the four, who’s the fourth girl? Mandy. Jessica is fourth, but I do love her. I mean, first of all, I think on my on repeat currently on Spotify is the Irresistible Hex Hector remix. Jam, I love throwing that on a party because people are like, what is this? The beat? And then they start hearing the. He’s irresistible, and they’re like, oh, you gagged us. That’s the one where she’s in a waterfall, right? Yeah, I think so. She’s in the futuristic like, she’s on the roof. Right, right, right. And then there’s the Bow Wow remix. There’s a lot going on in that song.

 

Louis Virtel She loved a low cut jean, please.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, she did.

 

Louis Virtel If you were, if you were witnessing like hourglassy obliques,

 

Adam Rippon Those were Jessica’s in 2005. I’m so sorry that I have to interject about Ashley Simpson for a second.

 

Ira Madison III No, my diva.

 

Adam Rippon Because I really feel like she was having vocal troubles at SNL.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Adam Rippon We’ve all been there when we needed vocal rest. And that second album that she did, there’s this like single on it out of my head. It was so good.

 

Ira Madison III That’s the third album.

 

Adam Rippon Oh my God, well, you know.

 

Louis Virtel The second one is I Am Me, right?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Right, because that has boyfriend on it, which is amazing. The third was Bitter Street World. Yes, which was exactly where she was. My God. By the way, Adam, I want to say on that front, yeah, well, it’s sort of like when Milli Vanilli got caught lip syncing and like the tape skipped famously and then they had to like run off stage. To me, it always remains shocking that that’s what outed them as phonies or whatever, because everybody lip-synched. Like, I’m just like, whatever, Janet Jackson could have had a tape that lip-skipped or something, and nobody would have been like, well, she hasn’t recorded a single note. Like, i still don’t really get why they were exposed.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Milli Vanilli, you know what? I would watch that series.

 

Louis Virtel Like, we need the real Milli Vanilli tea, you know? Like a biopic, because that was the reason behind the music came to be. I believe that was the first episode of Behind the Music. Do you understand what I’m saying?

 

Ira Madison III Milli Vanilli came into the studio and we played the record for them. They’d never heard the music. A quote from the great Nicole Scherzinger. But it could apply to Millie. It could apply too the diva who was the lead in black box because she was not singing them songs. Oh, really? It was Martha singing them songs from ton of fun.

 

Louis Virtel I thought you were talking about C&C Music Factory.

 

Ira Madison III No, I think it was Black Box too. She also sang on a few of those songs too. They were sued.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay, got it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, from Tons of Fun Slap, Tons Of Fun Come, Weather Girls.

 

Louis Virtel We could just educate you about Martha Walsh this whole episode, but we actually do have topics to discuss today.

 

Ira Madison III Although, well, first, though, I want to get to wash board abs because we have another homosexual here and we have to talk about Cooper Koch and Calvin Klein looking hot as hell.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Finally, like out of, you know, the, I thought he was hot in the murder series, the Menendez ones. And we actually talk about the Menendez brothers this week. Oh, we do, yes. Our guest this week, by the way, is Rosie O’Donnell, icon, and we talk about her connection to the Menendez brothers, which is crazy.

 

Louis Virtel Which led her to make the documentary she did, which we’ll get into. But yes, Cooper Koch is in a new Calvin Klein underwear ad. I guess we get one of these about every six months now. And to me, Taylor’s A Car Perez is still the peak in this genre. I do believe that Cooper Koch sort of has sea crest complexion and should remain clean shaven because of that. So I, yes, I felt that that was a mistake, but.

 

Ira Madison III Ryan Seacrest also famously, loves beards.

 

Adam Rippon No, wait, can you go back? What’s Ryan Seacrest’s complexion? Just, you know, that kind of like…

 

Louis Virtel Adobe colored, it just, it shouldn’t have any hair on it. It’s just like, depilated and pristine and tawny. Uh-huh. Terracotta. Yes, that’s the one. You enter a pottery barn, you will find him.

 

Ira Madison III But you brought up a peculiar thing about Cooper Koch, which is that she doesn’t have any projects coming up.

 

Louis Virtel I thought he was amazing on that Menendez show. And then also, this is completely random. I was on a plane this week. And the two people next to me just say, well, first of all, this how you get people to talk to you on a plan. They look at me reading old Jeopardy games. And they’re like, are you reading old jeopardy games? And we struck up a conversation and they go, oh yeah, we grew up with the Koch brothers and he’s doing so great now. And he has this brother who’s an editor. Maybe you guys could meet. This has paid no dividends to me. No Koch brother has turned up in my DMs. Wow, that’s sad. Yeah.

 

Adam Rippon Aren’t they are both of them not on Instagram or is like what the the twin is on Instagram Cooper’s correct

 

Louis Virtel I think Cooper has a private account. Okay, well, yeah, I think most of the Koch business, if you will, is conducted through his brother, Peyton, on Instagram. But, yeah. Is Peyton just as hot? I’m looking him up. Yeah, he’s an editor. I gotta see, editor where? Like on television series, like The Bear and stuff.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, like a TV editor. I was thinking like, I was thinking print. Yeah, right. You know, I was thinking someone was thinking New York Times. Yeah, moving and shaking the culture. You ever seen the post? Yeah, that was about Peyton Potch. I thought he was moving and shaking the culture, but he’s just editing the TV shows with Jeremy Allen White, like the bear. Is that how Cooper got? The Calvin Klein? You’re like a detective. It’s like Jessica Fletcher. I looked for evidence. I actually was looking for evidence in that Instagram post of the Calvin Klein ad because he looked like he has a lot of evidence.

 

Louis Virtel That’s true. Oh, if you will. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III He was packing it.

 

Louis Virtel Exhibits A through Z.

 

Ira Madison III Conceal and carry. Okay? He’s a man with a gun in his hand. Oh, Madonna, sooner or later. Yeah, I brought up Madonna first, because believe it or not, Lewis is going to talk about Madonna again this episode. In the keep it section.

 

Louis Virtel I think if you’re paying attention to the news recently, you’re almost certain to know what the topic is. But as we said before, Rosie O’Donnell is our guest today. We have the lovely Adam Rippon with us. Additionally, we’ll be talking about religion as it appears in popular culture and media we consume because everybody cared about the Pope this week. And I took a second to step back and ask why. Father, son, house of Leo. Oh, here we are. Okay. Adam, your sign.

 

Ira Madison III I’m a Scorpio. Okay, moving on. Just like my mother.

 

Adam Rippon Yeah, well I did it because of her

 

Louis Virtel And then also we’ll get into the new season of Drag Race All-Stars, and just who our favorite queens are of all time, because we haven’t really discussed that on this show, I don’t think. We have not. It’s time to rank them. And I have the feeling Adam’s picks- Have you not? I have a feeling Adam picks are controversial in this arena.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we haven’t really, you know, sometimes we talk about the show, but, you know, we’re in the, we were in the like second era of drag race dumb, you know, like we would have had a lot more to say pre 2018 precisely.

 

Adam Rippon Well, me too. I’m not like the most well-versed on everybody now, but I knew everything from the earlier seasons. That was really my jam.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no, you’re it’s like you’re suggesting that this is the new the real world where I kept up with it for a while And then suddenly I realized I was ten seasons behind and all my favorites were like 48 years old

 

Adam Rippon That’s exactly what I’m suggesting, this is the real world.

 

Ira Madison III This is the real world. Like if you did like Drag Race Denver, like the real-world, like just like, just move the show to different cities.

 

Adam Rippon Honestly, yes. Why not? That’s a fantastic idea. Just Denver girls.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, and then they all know each other and then there’s already like, you know, embedded drama, etc. Anyway, more brilliant ideas to come this episode.

 

Ira Madison III Call me World of Wonder.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll be right back.

 

Ira Madison III Call me, Ishmael.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel Last week, the new Pope, Pope Leo XIV, which I’ve not memorized yet, was the name on everyone’s lips, spurring a wave of memes and conclave re-watches or first time watches for some losers. So in honor of our first American Pope, we’re going to get into all of the fanfare around his holiness and some of our favorite religious moments on screen. I’m just going to begin by saying that an American Pope is deeply unglamorous to me. Like watching his brother give interviews and he’s like, oh yeah, he’s a big White Sox fan. Do you know what it reminds me of? When somebody wins the lottery, that kind of press circuit they get, you know, where it’s like oh yeah. I used to know him in third grade, except this time it’s the Pope. So I just, unfortunately, the level of gravitas has gone up in white smoke, if you will.

 

Ira Madison III Well, he is a Leo by name. I don’t know his actual birthday. I’m going to look it up and we’ll find out if he’s actually a Leo, but he is Negro. Meaning? Meaning he has Creole roots. Okay? Baby, hold on. John Prevost confirmed records showing the maternal side of Pope Leo XIV’s family can be traced back to at least the 1840s Free people of color in New Orleans, though he clarified his family does not identify as black, which makes him very Creole. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, he’s from the bayou of Lake Michigan.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, honey, he was told by Jari C. Honora, a genealogist with the historic New Orleans collection that Leo’s maternal grandparents were people of color, no doubt about it, his ancestral ties to Creole and Haitian families, baby. He’s a brother. Okay. I started out estimating. One drop rule. Like, the Ku Klux would be after him, which means…

 

Louis Virtel He’s a black pope. I also didn’t know we were calling them the Clu Clux.

 

Ira Madison III Well, you know, KKK is so like, you know, like old hat, you know, cool clocks, that’s very, but not.

 

Adam Rippon CLEAR!

 

Ira Madison III You know, no, like just two K’s now. You know it’s very. You know, it’s very chic.

 

Adam Rippon I love that you’ve done the rebranding for them.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you. Well, you know, um, I joined recently, so, um. Big move for you. You know what? It’s just, it’s, you, members clubs are really in right now. And I was like, why not join one of the oldest institutions? Yeah, community.

 

Louis Virtel Adam, do you have a deep religious background? As a figure skater, I assume you’re overcoming traumas of so many kinds.

 

Adam Rippon I honestly am, yes, but I did go to Catholic school and so I, it was always a really big Okay, so you get it. The uniforms, the, I mean, when Pope John Paul II died, this was like a really big… I remember, like in the 90s when I was in school, we had a lot of really big famous deaths. We had Princess Diana. We had Mother Teresa, huge celebrity at my Our Lady of Peace Catholic School in Clark Screen, Pennsylvania, and Pope John Paul II. So these were really big.

 

Louis Virtel When did he die again? Okay, yes.

 

Adam Rippon I think it was right before I went to college. I could be wrong.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Adam Rippon Yeah, so 2005, and then we had Pope Benedict, who I, like, for me, I always didn’t like that he resigned, because I was like, that’s such weakness in the face of me and my Catholic school friends. I don’t like that he resigned. So Francis, that was fun, and I like the Pope Leo.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a long ass gig. But it’s giving when somebody quits Survivor or something. It’s like so many people wanted this.

 

Adam Rippon That’s right. And you knew it was long. You could have said no in the conclave. You know, I didn’t think you had it in you. That’s the Olympian in me.

 

Ira Madison III Should’ve expected that though, you know, because like, have you ever had eggs Benedict? Oh, right, you gotta have it the first 10 minutes. Right, it’s a great fucking breakfast food, but if you let that linger, they taste disgusting.

 

Louis Virtel It doesn’t last for Holland days, it lasts for Holland minutes, okay?

 

Ira Madison III I was raised Baptist and religion was like a little bit part of my life. But then yes, I went to Marquette University High School in Milwaukee, which was a Jesuit high school. And then I went Loyola University, Chicago, which is also a Jesuits college. So yeah, I was entrenched and yeah, the whole, you know, Pope thing was very serious to all of them.

 

Louis Virtel Well, excuse me, I grew up as an altar boy. Oh, I did that from grades. Wow. Like the off-Broadway musical? That’s the same. Yes, just as rowdy of humor too. Did that through eighth grade and then I was a reader, which is the way you can contribute most gaily to the church in plain sight of everybody. First of all, you stand up at the podium with the long mic, so it’s already giving vintage Jeopardy.

 

Ira Madison III Mm-hmm.

 

Louis Virtel Secondly, you’re standing there reading and like it’s about stage presence, et cetera. Now I did drama club and stuff, so I wasn’t completely in denial about gay things. But there was something about like reading like the word of the Lord, like it so nasty. It’s so saucy in a gay way. I can’t explain it.

 

Ira Madison III To give it. Yeah.

 

Adam Rippon Yeah, it’s about performance in a way. Well, I mean, the whole performance of getting up to the altar to that long mic and the creaking of setting it to the right place, like everything about it is show business.

 

Louis Virtel It’s incredible. You just identified something very specific, the moving the mic, like the getting it down to my level so I can do my little velvet fog whispering into it so that everybody can observe me. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Okay, so, Pope Leo is a…

 

Louis Virtel Ugh, September, who’s doing anything in that month besides earth, wind, and fire? You know, it’s going back to school. Yeah, right. Yeah. The worst season. As you guys know, fall is.

 

Ira Madison III Maybe that’s a sign that Pope Leo is going to be like taking us back to school, you know, Pop Crave, Pope Crave whatever was going on there, our nation’s reporters now. I can’t wait for the post movie, but about Pop Craves.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. And also because what is it? We still don’t know if it’s like one person or like 100 people, right?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, but they were like we’re gonna force the Pope to be woke and I’m like, I really don’t care if the Pope is woke No, every time the Pope does a thing where it’s like gay people They’re allowed to hold hands, right? Yeah

 

Louis Virtel I’m like, who gives a fuck? No, it is mysterious because I was whipped up in the kind of celebrity moment of this, even though I don’t really know why. And I truly find every time the Pope releases a statement about everything to be kind of annoying. Like somebody is actually taking this as actual insight when you could ask anybody else.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s like, okay, the Vatican streets are talking. Yeah. I prefer it when people were leaking. I prefer when the streets were actually talking, leaking shit about the Pope saying like, faggot. That was one of the greatest moments.

 

Adam Rippon That was the best. And then to say it weeks later, it was like the cherry on top. It was like the cherry on top.

 

Ira Madison III He was like, yeah, I said it. Let me double down. Yeah, I set it.

 

Louis Virtel He’s like, that’s the Old Testament and the New Testament.

 

Ira Madison III That’s the pope I want, okay? Like, throw the faggots around, okay, and he’s black, so you know what else he could be saying.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me, I just want to say if you’re from Chicago as he is and you’re a White Sox fan, that is not what you want to be here.

 

Ira Madison III Okay, listen, there are two white people here this week, so I won’t say it, if it was just Louis. But you all know what word. Milano. Yeah, oh my gosh, Nirvana’s favorite word. Religious movies.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Oh, no, we want to talk because it’s something that occurred to me recently was first of all, you used to get your religious imagery fix from music videos and that is a dead art form now. Once upon a time it was like you got the Madonna videos or George Michael or Prince or I like losing my religion by REM. And to me, why those spoke to me and this is all of course biblical imagery generally speaking It was like going to church because you were constantly surrounded by imagery, and it was up to you to decide why it should be centralized in your life. And yet it was just completely dogmatic. Like everything around you was like a crazy illustrated biblical story, and you were left to wonder.

 

Ira Madison III What it all meant. And the girls were always pressed. Like you see across in a music video and like Mary Beth was firing up the letter to her local news station.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right. No, they were never not pissed about it. I remember I had a priest growing up, and again, I grew up Catholic, who said, and this is like the one thing I ever remember from my Catholic upbringing. He goes, I might listen to a Madonna or Sinead O’Connor song on the radio, but I would never give money to them. At that point, I knew, and I had no concept of gayness at that time. I am sprinting out of the church. Bring me to Sineade.

 

Ira Madison III So, what are some of your favorite religious movies? We’ve got the Conclave right now, and the girls are watching Conclave, re-watching Conclave. But what else should the girls be watching? Well, Adam, you first.

 

Adam Rippon Okay, I mean, I really do believe everybody should be watching Conclave. I watched it before the Pope died and I loved it. You know, I’d really love any time like Stanley Tucci is kind of in the running to win an award. In that movie, obviously, the award is Pope. And so I was a big fan of it. But I have to also agree that like growing up, I loved all of like the religious imagery that you’d see like everywhere. But I think because it was like so in the pop cultures like guys that like that’s why you know I feel like with these like Republicans now They saw it and it took years for them to like kind of adjust to it and now it becomes their performative art

 

Louis Virtel Mm-hmm

 

Adam Rippon Precisely. That’s what I feel like. It is interesting.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like the Bible was once upon a time like real pop culture like you would just hear those names like I mean For example, like it would come up in trivia way more often too Like you would be kind of expected to know it in a way But now I feel if you ask the average person on the street, would they know like Bible stories? No, we don’t even talk about Ruth

 

Ira Madison III anymore, okay, like, we don’t even need babe roofs. No, right, who is he? Baby roof, great candy bar. I would say mid-tier, but okay. Okay, okay controversial, we’ll get to that next week. Okay. We probably won’t. What are your favorite religious movies? I’m curious. I have a little list here. Oh, how nice of you. Yeah, you know, I was like, let me prepare this week, why not? Okay, first, if we’re talking about. Movies that really upset people. We got to talk about Scorsese, Martin Scorsesi, The Last Temptation of Christ.

 

Louis Virtel Well, Martin Scorsese, he gets you whipped up in the exoticism of Catholicism. If you want it to feel exciting, you gotta get like it’s starting with Mean Streets and onward into that and even Silence, which was good for one third of it.

 

Ira Madison III Last Temptation of Christ began his sort of trilogy about religion, you know? And that one, of course, stars Willem Dafoe as Jesus, Harvey Keitel as Judas. And it was, it got people upset because Jesus was imagining having sex. He wasn’t actually having sex, by the way. He was imagining it. And I guess even your imagination is controversial. It was, you know, when this came out in 1988. And I also believe that Jesus knew Barbara Hershey. So I really signed on to that, okay.

 

Adam Rippon I learned about that at church.

 

Louis Virtel The book of Hershey.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I like that. Coon Dune is also a part of the trilogy and it’s about the dog.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely, yes. I’m sure all had the somewhat traumatic moment of watching Passion of the Christ in theaters. Did we not?

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, it was kind of giving in some parts, but then I was just exhausted.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah, cuz it literally was just here comes the marathon of things he endured, basically kind of free of perspective.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it was torture porn. It was giving Eli Roth, to be honest. I much preferred Mel Gibson’s police tape.

 

Adam Rippon That’s when he peaked. Me too, his best performance.

 

Ira Madison III A lot of twists, a lot of turns, you know, a lot of pathos in that, actually.

 

Louis Virtel And verse, really, like he was going off. Passion of the Christ in theaters. I don’t know how this happened. So I went to a public school, but I somehow ended up in a row of people I know who are also religious, also Catholic, but like- The rosary beads were out. Yes, precisely, yeah, going one at a time. And I didn’t know they were obsessed with Catholicism until we were sitting there in the theater and they were weeping so hard next to me. And I was full at that moment. When I see people cry like that, I become like Daria.

 

Ira Madison III I do not. That’s literally the seed of her in the opening credits in the basketball game and that you’re standing on my neck is playing as you’re watching.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. And then I just remember thinking also that Jim Caviezel was good-looking, and I looked him up recently, and he is the world’s craziest celebrity.

 

Ira Madison III No, baby, he’s, he really gets into it, okay? Like you think Marion Cotillard, 9-11 conspiracy theories, no, Jim Caviezel. You’re right. Just Google him, he jumped out the window.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, and in a religious way, like he was well cast for this movie. It’s not- I don’t think he’s gonna be in part two, is he? Or is he- And also, what’s the nature of part two?

 

Ira Madison III Jesus Rises.

 

Louis Virtel There’s a party.

 

Adam Rippon Passion of the Christ, too. Are they really going to, like, stretch that day out, aren’t they?

 

Louis Virtel No, we were talking last week about how when the inevitable Madonna biopic happens, they’re going to turn her meeting of Michael Jackson, which was one day, into a huge part of it. And I think this is the same thing. It’s going to be like my week with Marilyn where like a three day stretch.

 

Ira Madison III Focusing on the three days between Jesus’s crucifixion and resurrection. Mel Gibson is returning as director, praise him, and Jim Caviezel is returning as Jesus. It’s expected to explore Jesus’s descent into hell, his resurrection, and the events that follow, including his appearance to the disciples. I kind of am waiting just for the moment where Judas is gooped and gagged. Oh, yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. Also, Jesus’ descent into hell. I hope he uses literal stairs like he has a lantern. The escalators broke down.

 

Ira Madison III Broken, stares, and that I hope the devil looks like him from the Powerpuff Girls.

 

Louis Virtel Man, by the way, that’s another thing that is always hilarious to me. Interest in and fear of the devil. Not only do you believe in whatever’s out there, there’s an actual villain waiting for you. I enjoy when he appears in the movies, and I guess this is why Rosemary’s baby must come up in this conversation. Because religion is ultimately a lot about fear and what can happen to you. And think that’s the movie that best realizes where our paranoia is leading us. Religiously in our head, like what could possibly happen to you? And of course, it was just Mia Farrow, Tony nominee, still one of her best performances. I love her in that movie.

 

Ira Madison III I also love the Pedro Almodovar film, Dark Habits, which is about Yolanda, my mother’s name, a cabaret singer who gives her friend heroin, the friend overdoses, and so she runs from the police and joins this, joins the nuns. Oh. She joins the Nuns and like there’s a bunch of them are shooting up drugs, you know, having sex. It’s a kooky, emotivar film, and it’s really fun. And now you’ve brought up nuns, which is its own genre of film. I mean, Sister Act, I love people on the run from the police or the mob, and they join, they become a nun. They throw on.

 

Louis Virtel And also, it’s the rare, like, if you said that was your favorite Maggie Smith performance, I would be okay with it. She really is amazing at it and a very kind of minor role for her.

 

Ira Madison III What’s the place called when the nuns go, I kept like not saying it. I’m not saying it.

 

Louis Virtel A con vent, yes. You could have said nunnery too, a la Shakespeare.

 

Ira Madison III Get thee, two way. If you will. What else do you love in the religious world, Adam?

 

Adam Rippon I’m so glad that you brought me here for this, because I am sort of just like a religious nut. And you need God. I do need God, and you know, I think one thing, this is not a movie, but I don’t know if you’ve ever been to church and you ever had to watch like a first grade adaptation of the Stations of the Cross where, oh God, it was so good. I did play, not a disciple, I played sort of a village person taunting Jesus in my first grade adaption, which I was very good at.

 

Ira Madison III What were these taunts?

 

Adam Rippon We just had to yell, like, um, sinner, like that’s what they really wanted us to like kind of yell out like sinner. And so it’s while we had like Jesus who was played by this kid in my class named Charles dragging the giant cross across like they what they did in our version of it was drag it up the aisle, the back of the aisle back down. Wow. So then we had all of the stations of the cross. That’s a workout. Completely. Oh, yeah. Charles was jacked for first grade. OK, yeah, yeah it was Cooper Cush, the Calvin Klein.

 

Louis Virtel The Stations of the Cross are like these 14 kind of iconographic photos really that like illustrate Jesus is moving to the cross, et cetera. But it feels like a comic book. And so during the, whatever that is, is that Holy Thursday? When they act these out, first of all, it takes forever. But second of all it’s so dramatic. It’s so like everybody posing like people, like Jesus is truly, this is not an exaggeration, voguing his way to the Cross. Yeah, it’s the only way to go to the crossing. No, I mean, if you’re gonna go. Duck walk it. Yeah.

 

Adam Rippon It’s the original way to go to it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, you know, I also really love the movie saved Certainly but with the aforementioned Mandy Moore. Yes, Mandy Moore is in it. Jenna Malone is in. It. She plays a Teenager who discovers that her boyfriend is gay and she tries to save him But you know fucking the gay out of them. Yeah, she gets pregnant

 

Louis Virtel Mm-hmm. Oh, too bad. Very The Next Best Thing. Which if you haven’t seen that recently, Madonna’s 30th mention this episode. I actually don’t think I’ve seen The Next best thing. It is so bad, but I love Rupert Everett and the two of them are there and they end up being a platonic couple and she wants to have a baby with her. The angry gay, right?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, he’s angry and gay, that’s Rupert Everett.

 

Louis Virtel And she’s a yoga teacher in LA with the world’s biggest house.

 

Ira Madison III It makes no sense. That was the like invention of yoga though, right? People were probably charging a lot for yoga then.

 

Louis Virtel I got, yeah, it was like a really great idea. And of course, Madonna was like the primary yogist then also. I want to bring up a movie before I forget from the fifties called The Nun Story. I think I’ve brought it up before on the podcast. It’s a long movie. It’s slow in a great way. And it’s Audrey Hepburn as a nun, Oscar nominated performance, joining the church and you slowly watch her reconsider her decision as she like meets with everybody and goes through the rituals and like is sent on a mission and stuff. It’s one of the rare movies, I think, that does the really hard thing of letting you watch somebody think and having that be interesting.

 

Ira Madison III I think that is a little relatable too, especially for maybe for you, Adam, for someone who went to like a Catholic school. Do you have friends who were considering like joining priesthood or like becoming a nun or something and then didn’t? I have a cousin.

 

Adam Rippon That was on his way to becoming a priest and then…

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I have a friend who literally did that from high school. I remember he did that. I was at an after party in New York recently and met someone named Ken who was like, you know, studying to become a Jesuit. And weirdly enough, he went to, he was in that program with a Jesuit who was my high school English teacher. Frightening. Yes, who I write about in my book about being like. Attracted to. Like I like compared to like Carmella Soprano and the priest and I asked him I was like Okay, was he given like gay vibes to you and he was like, oh definitely probably

 

Louis Virtel Oh my gosh. Well, that also, that just called to mind Hot Priest from Fleabag, which now that was Andrew Scott’s big entrance into pop culture, but that character, that was such an interesting romance between the two of them. And I think it spoke to the fact that we really, even if we’re not religious people, kind of imbue priests with the magical quality. Like we think they know something we don’t. I just bizarrely actually, my grandmother’s brother who is 97 years old and a priest in Rome and worked with Mother Teresa to kind of spread her word. I forget the name of the organization she founded, but he was a big part of it. And I still think of this man as like touched by someone.

 

Adam Rippon Was it the Little Sisters of the Poor?

 

Louis Virtel It’s something like that. I consider myself one of those just anyway.

 

Adam Rippon But me too, that’s why I’m unplugging it actually.

 

Ira Madison III This is why you’re here. They never laughed though, because you know, broke people should never laugh. No, no, it’s too risky. Nicki Minaj.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I see. Yeah. But I truly do think that even if you’re a cynical person, you still kind of think or have been trained to think that priests are in touch with something you’re not in a kind of Miss Cleo way. I don’t know. I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III They’re usually in touch with something I’m not. I’ve seen Spotlight. Oh my God.

 

Louis Virtel You doing it in a tight five today? Fucking Shecky Green over here?

 

Ira Madison III Spotlight’s a religious movie, too, which is, I, baby, girl, Spotlight came out when we were at school, shook the table.

 

Louis Virtel First of all, it did not come out when we were in school. It came out in 2015.

 

Ira Madison III It did, oh, sorry, it shook my school because people were talking about it on Facebook or whatever. Oh, I see. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. And then I believe it was like the report about it was included like at least one person from our school, one priest.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, no, you get the feeling like everything’s tentacle connected in that universe. It is a great movie. Also, that’s a movie where like there’s nine great performances, not just the ones that were nominated. No offense to Rachel McAdams, who’s also in Are You There, God, It’s Me, Margaret, which has the family going to church in it. And I kind of appreciated seeing that because I guess it’s now an only retro movies, movies set in the past that you would see families even going to church? That’s just something I’ve completely lost from pop culture and was like a part of my upbringing. So I feel like you almost have to still teach people through movies that we used to do this. It was just like.

 

Adam Rippon People did it. That was just you did like it was part of like you had to go to the grocery store every Sunday you had, to go, to church it was just like part of what people did in their schedule.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like it was also just part of how in film and TV, you were just sort of depicting what, you know, American culture was supposed to be, you now, I remember like the Simpsons used to depict church. Oh, and like there was controversial how they depicted it, but then people started to like it because the stories were actually really authentic. But you know that was also a show that was criticized by president Bush for how it depicted the nuclear family, you know? And so I think that around that time is when we started shifting away from nuclear family and depictions of people just going to church, et cetera.

 

Louis Virtel Right, and you know, a genre where you always see people at church is in old westerns. That’s sort of referenced in sinners recently, because it starts out at a church. Kill Bill 2, which I just rewatched recently. Right, right, right. But I think that’s, I think how filmmakers in those movies often established that we were talking about salt of the earth people. A little indicating. Good people.

 

Ira Madison III The people who go to church. And what other religious things am I really?

 

Louis Virtel Did you know that there are other religions do.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, yeah, but you know, we’re talking about Catholicism. Oh, okay. The Pope, you know. Right, what did the Like A Prayer video do you? I don’t think that the Pope respects the law, respect to Allah. Pope Leo isn’t saying that, you now.

 

Louis Virtel I haven’t heard the word Allah come out of his mouth yet, I have to say. He’s not woke. The Like a Prayer video. That was, I think still to this date, as naughty as it got when it came to referencing the imagery of Catholicism. She was horny. Yeah. Yeah, and I-

 

Ira Madison III And she had dark care.

 

Louis Virtel So she looked amazing.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Jezebel. Jezebell hair. Yes. Yeah, and was it Jesus Black in it? Yeah, Leon, played by the model Leon. Yes, oh, we love Leon. Cynthia Bailey’s ex who birthed her daughter. Wait, was he on Gray’s Anatomy? No, Leon was on Cynthia Bailey, Real Housewife of Atlanta.

 

Louis Virtel Nevermind. What is her name on that show? Dr. Bailey or whatever. Dr. Bayley.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, the Nazi remember they used to call her that really on Gray’s Anatomy. Oh, no

 

Louis Virtel Oh, cuz she ran out like the Navy. Okay, yes, right.

 

Adam Rippon I never watched Gray’s Anatomy. I know that that’s… Yeah, I don’t know how that happened to me. It seems your culture. Hospital? It’s like totally at my alley.

 

Ira Madison III Catherine Heigl seems your culture.

 

Adam Rippon I mean, she totally is. And you’re, like, everything about it seems like it would be such a fit, but somehow it just, it passed me by, even though it’s still ongoing. I don’t know how that happened to me.

 

Louis Virtel I would describe medical dramas though as like a vape, like I would just skip it altogether. But if I do it once, oh, now I have to keep doing this forever. You know, like you, you get into a storyline or whatever. And that like, I didn’t think I would like the pit and then I watched the whole thing in two days. So.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think you would love Gray’s Anatomy. I think he should get into it.

 

Adam Rippon See, they’re on like season 30?

 

Ira Madison III To be honest, it’s unacceptable, but yes. I think those are our movie. Honestly, one less movie, Regina Hall, icon, honk for Jesus, save your soul.

 

Louis Virtel Never seen it. And I love her.

 

Ira Madison III And I love her. Yeah, it came out like a couple of years ago at something and it had black actor. He’s in the show with Mandy Moore. This is us, Sterling K Brown. Yeah, Sterly K Brown, okay. Louis getting a black actor before me. What is happening this week? That’s tough, that’s tough. Two white people are here. So it’s like, the brain is- You’re thrown off. The brain is frying. Yes. Yeah, so. People should watch that. And congrats for one last Mandy Moore mention. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we will be right back with more Keep It, but before that, some quick housekeeping. Stacey Abrams and Rachel Maddow, name a more iconic duo. Well, Ira and Louis Fretel, but they’re iconic women. And on the latest Assembly Required, they dug into what the first 100 days of Trump 2.0 could look like and how we beat fascism before. Spoiler, it wasn’t by politely waiting it out. It’s history, resistance, and a blueprint for fighting back with receipts. Watch Assembly Required on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. All right, when we’re back, we’re joined by Rosie O’Donnell.

 

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Ira Madison III Every now and then we’re blessed with a true legend on this podcast, and today is one of those days. This week’s guest is an Emmy-winning comedian, actress, philanthropist, and so much more. She’s one of my and Louis’s favorite TV hosts ever to do it, and today she’s here to tell us about her new documentary, Unleashing Hope, The Power of Service Dogs for Children with Autism. Please welcome to keep it, Rosie O’Donnell.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Hello boys, how are you?

 

Ira Madison III Fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel Could not be better. We were just, Ira and I were just saying, we were watching years and years of footage of you, just for the hell of it anyway, and then to prepare for this. And my God is it, you are the greatest talker ever. You’re the greatest talked ever.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Thank you, you know, I was a kid, I got in trouble for talking too much, and so everyone’s like, what are you going to do, be a talk show host? I’m like, as a matter of fact, that’s what I’m going to be.

 

Ira Madison III Hahaha

 

Louis Virtel So this new documentary, it’s called Unleashing Hope, and it’s about how service dogs help autistic kids. You are the mother of an autistic child. Why did you think a documentary was the best format for this? Why did think seeing this would sell the message best?

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, I wasn’t aware that there were service dogs for autism, and I’m one of those Google-obsessed mothers in terms of autism theories and practices and therapies and treatments and ways to help assist your autistic child. I didn’t even know about it, and thought if I don’t know about, imagine how many other families who could benefit don’t about it. And I went to them a few weeks after Kuma was home with Clay and I. And I said, I’d like to help you guys make this more known. And who are the other celebrities that you have given dogs to? And they said, you’re the first. And I was like, are you kidding? And they’re like, no. I’m like, no other celebrity with an autistic child has ever gotten a service dog from you? And they say no. I’m, like, well, then let me make a documentary. And their first answer was, we don’t know anything about that. I said well, guess what? I didn’t know about. How to train a dog. So why don’t you keep doing what you do and let me do what I do and let’s make this really quickly and put a turnaround for Autism Awareness Month, which was April, which is when it premiered on Hulu and it’s still available to stream now.

 

Ira Madison III So it’s fantastic, I guess, that you made this so quickly, that you learned this information. What was the process of creating the documentary?

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, I called these producing team in New York of Hillary Esty McLaughlin and Terrence Noonan who were producers on my show all those years ago. And they really understand me and my heart and what’s important to me. And I said, I’d like to make a doc, a short doc on this to get the info out there. And, you know, we had to raise the money initially and we got some sponsors from, you know, dog products and. And different people helping us, and we just did it on our own. You know, we hired this guy Zeb, who I had seen a doc that he had made, and really loved it, and he had won awards for it, and Karen said, why don’t we try this guy? And I told him what I wanted, and he listened, and had a wonderful DP, and so it looks beautiful. And you know, we edited it, and took the parts that were heartwarming, in. Even some difficult parts, you know, I mean, autism is not easy and it’s a challenge for most families. And some people have much more difficulty taking care of their autistic child. And you know it’s very wide spectrum. It goes from nonverbal kids who can’t communicate very well to Albert Einstein and the hyperverbal and every child is different. So I knew I wanted to put Clay in my experience in the dock. And then we searched for the family and we found Caleb and his family with the help of Guide Dogs of America and through the producers and Zab, the director. And, you know, what we found was gold and they would send me the outtakes and I would be like, yes, put this in, put this and put that in. You know, and I was very hesitant to put in the part about Lyle Menendez. I didn’t want it to be like an exploitive thing or people think that I was doing it for any ulterior motives. I became friendly with him about three years ago right before I got the dog or before we applied for the dog. In fact, I met the dogs first at his prison when I went to visit him when he did a presentation. And afterwards the man from Guide Dogs of America, Russ, came over me and said, would you like to meet our dogs? And I thought, how can they have dogs in prison? Doesn’t seem legal. And then I went and met all these men, lifers, who were… The trainers of the dog and was so moved by them and their stories and their tears and their love for these animals and for the people that they’re helping. I mean, imagine how hard it is to be in prison and to train a puppy for a year or two and then have to give that puppy away. And they do it over and over and again. And the recidivism rate for these men is zero. You know, none of them come back to prison. Some of them get out, the trainers, you know. Some of them are serving very long terms, but most of the men are lifers. But some men with life without the possibility of parole end up getting out in some way after good behavior and rehabilitation, and none of those men have re-offended. So it’s a beautiful program and it’s absolutely free to veterans, to blind people, and to autistic children under the age of 12. And we applied and we got through and I went there and was met with an astonishing group of 30 people each getting a dog. Some parents of autistic children, some veterans who had served in the Gulf War and were near the burn pits and now had ambulatory issues and PTSD and a whole group of blind people, which I have to say never hung out with 30 blind people before. And it was really spectacular and wonderful to be amongst a group of people that I had never really known much about, how they lived or what their life was like. And we watched the football game together, the playoffs, and me and four blind men were watching the playoffs in the rec room together. And it a beautiful experience. It was so emotional. It was very cathartic. And I knew at the end of it that I was gonna dedicate my life to this cause. When my child was diagnosed with autism when she was two, and they’re now 12, I knew that this was going to change the trajectory of my life in every way, and it has. And it’s mostly beautiful ways, I have to say. And I’m very sick and upset about how autism gets represented in the media. I’m horrified by RFK Jr. And what he’s saying and doing right now and telling all these people these absurd conspiracy theories and implying that vaccines. Cause autism and it’s just ridiculous. It’s been scientifically proven that it’s genetic and he doesn’t have a degree in medical anything or science anything. He’s just like a fraudster, like his president.

 

Louis Virtel I was wondering if you were heartened in any way by, over the past few years, there’s been at least some documentaries, docu-series with autistic people in them. I was obsessed a couple of years ago, there was a Rubik’s cube documentary called The Cubers, where like, it’s so lovely. I was wanting if you had kind of favorites in that genre that kind of humanize autism for people.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, I actually did a documentary. I was a producer of A Mother’s Courage. And it was about a woman from Iceland who had a non-verbal child named Keely who was stimming and had trouble walking. And the doctors told her that he would never progress past the age of two. And he was 16 when I met her and she was traveling around the world trying to find help for her child. And she took her child to Austin, Texas to a woman from India. Who had an autistic son, and she did the pointing to the letters. And she took Keely into the room and took out the board and said to him, “‘Show me, Keely, tell me, show me. “‘What do you want, Keily? “‘What you want your mother to know?’ And he wrote, “‘I want an iPad and a computer.'” And they thought he had the IQ of a two-year-old, and here he was. This musical genius all trapped inside. And it was this woman from India in Austin, Texas that changed his world and her life. And someone sent me that doc when they were trying to get funding. And I called Sheila Nevins at HBO, who is the most decorated documentarian in the world and more awards than anyone. And she said, yes, we’ll do it. So that was my introduction to docs about autism. There have been many that have come out recently that are very beautiful. I love Love on the Spectrum. I loved getting to see Tanner and all of these people and Abby and David and, you know, any time that we can feature a minority that doesn’t get enough press, it’s beneficial for the whole nation. I believe in diversity and inclusion and compassion and understanding. And I believe that’s what our country is about, and I believe that’s we have to remember as a nation when it comes to people who are different.

 

Ira Madison III And you’ve recently relocated with Clay to Ireland. And how has that culture shift been for you? How has it been for Clay? How has been just adjusting to living in a new area?

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, I have to tell you that I’m shocked at how well Clay has done. I did not know, and it was my biggest fear about moving, even though I was certain that I had to do it. It wasn’t something that I vacillated about. When I saw that he won the election, I knew I would implement the plan that my therapist and I had come up with to be out of the country before the inauguration. I’ve had a terse history with him, and starting in 2007, when I told the truth about who he is. As a man and what a fraud he is. This is when he was doing Celebrity Apprentice, a show that was produced by Mark Burnett, who I blame for a lot of this Trumpism bullshit because he took this show that was supposed to be realism and he made a lie, fiction, and he sold it as fact, and people believed it. And had not been for that show, he would not have the reach and the power that he has. And for some reason, The Fourth Estate. Crumbled under his presence and never called him out on his lives. And still, you know, when Terry Moran actually called him out, it was like he fell apart. You challenge a narcissist, a liar, a fake, a fraud, a rapist, a criminal, and they don’t know how to stand up to you. But no one challenges him enough. No one challenges them. And Terry Morand did it. And anyone who considers themselves a journalist must be like Terry, because he showed everyone. How to do that. But being in Ireland has been very healing for me emotionally. I am brought back to memories of my childhood. I’m 100% Irish and my grandparents are from Ireland. I knew that I had birthright citizenship. My brothers have their Irish citizenship. I just never applied because I never imagined moving. You know, I’m not a person who likes to travel out of the country. I like to be near my children. I like to be able to speak the language. And when I knew I had to leave because of the danger to my non-binary child who is autistic and to myself as a gay woman who he considers one of his enemies, that it would not be safe for us right at this time. And so we made the move and it’s been nothing but positive. The only thing I miss, my friends and my family, my older children are still in the United States? And they’re grown, they’re between 22 and 30 and have their lives. And the little one I took with me. So I’m thankful to the people who have welcomed me here and to a country that feels so much like home.

 

Louis Virtel I wanna move on from Trump in a second, but you actually said something I’ve never considered, which is, because he was such a huge celebrity even in the eighties and nineties. I was re-watching the Madonna Blonde Ambition Tour, where she makes a joke about him divorcing Ivana even in 1990, like the biggest concert in the world. But the idea that the apprentice was essential and where he got eventually, like it gave him some authority he didn’t have before. You think that changed the perception of him.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Yes. They were told that he had a big board room and a big office. No, he had a family grifting business. He is a logo slapper. He is not a builder. He didn’t build Trump Tower. He didn’t built… His buildings are historically falling apart and horrifically made and they don’t hold their value. He literally goes from one grift to another as he’s doing now in the Oval Office despite breaking all kinds of laws and Constitutional truths, no one seems to know how to stop him. And I blame the fact that he had this lie of a program and Mark Burnett sold the lie and taught him how to sell the lie as a truth. And he believes his lies now. We’ve created a monster and he’s a mentally unstable man and we’re all in danger with him in that office.

 

Louis Virtel I want to go back to kids for a second. Something that has always blown my mind about you, because it’s so not true for other talk show hosts specifically. You were always like, your fan base was always adults and kids and you never were pandering to one or the other. It’s just like, it’s, it so happened that way and you could communicate to like the youngest person and the oldest person. I was watching an interview you did with Sarah Jessica Parker where you actually head of sides for a second. Of in-jokes about the movie, whatever happened to baby Jane, and you don’t even say what the movie is, just like a couple, it’s like your mom’s friends hanging out, talking about their favorite movies. Have you always known that your fan base would be that wide, that you would be appealing to the youngest people as well as people your age?

 

Rosie O’Donnell You know, I never think about people as fans. I know there are friends of mine who are celebrities who say, oh, my fans, and I don’t ever use the word. I think it’s a very derogatory term, and even though I’m the biggest fan of people, especially, you know, Streisand, as everyone knows, who I would not have been an entertainer if there had not been a Barbra Streisande because she was it, the North Star for me, and she remains that now at 83 years old. I’m 63, she’s 20 years, one month, and three days older than me. I know everything about her, and I think she’s the greatest star that’s ever lived. But I understand why she has fans, but I don’t think of the people who enjoy me in the same way. I always love children more than any other group, you know? Kids are my favorite people. Going to weddings, I wanted to sit at the kid table, even if I was in my 30s. And when I was able to have my own, to adopt my own starting at 33, my whole life changed and opened up. And as many of my friends say, you took a big bite out of the mothering bagel. And I adopted five kids and had two foster kids. And still to this day, I was 50 years old when I got a phone call about a baby that needed a home. And my oldest was 12, the age that Clay is now. And I was in the IKEA with my assistant, Frankie, and I was looking at every baby and stopping, talking to the mothers. And he said, do you want another one? I said, you know, I’m 63. It doesn’t seem fair. However, if that mother told me that she couldn’t do it and would I take her baby? I would. If that mother in IKEA looked at me and said, I have a sick terminal disease and. I don’t have the ability to take care. Will you raise this child in the light? My answer is always yes, you know? So last time I had a 12 year old, I adopted a newborn. So let’s hope it doesn’t happen this time because what am I gonna be? Like, you now having a brand new baby at 82, I probably would do it.

 

Ira Madison III It’s interesting, you always refer to yourself as the biggest fan, and that was always so much fun watching the Rosie O’Donnell show, just seeing how you would interact with people like you. I think it’s one of the big sort of inspirations for how Lewis and I approached the podcast. Being fans of people’s work, you’re not having to watch someone’s work because they’re coming on, you’ve already seen it, you love these people.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Yes, exactly.

 

Ira Madison III I want to ask about switching then from hosting just your show where you got to be a fan and then being on like a show like The View, which was like a news show, you know, did you find that the way you consumed culture change when you went to that show or was it different, you know talking about pop culture in that form being on a panel?

 

Rosie O’Donnell It was much more difficult than I ever anticipated. And you know, when you come from hosting your own show and being the executive producer and being, the person who makes all the decisions to an ensemble cast, it’s very different. And I was used to saying, no, this is how we should do that segment. And this is, and you know it wasn’t my house and I went in and tried to rearrange the furniture and they didn’t like it. I didn’t do it out of rudeness or out of ego. I did it out, well, I know how to do this. Let me see if I can help this show. You know, that’s what my thinking was. But it didn’t go over well, needless to say. Every time that I tried to go back and do it again, because I’d like to be a team player and somebody who can do it. On movie sets, I love being in a cast and an ensemble, but it’s not speaking your political opinions where people on your team disagree with you and perhaps put you in an awkward position. Like I always thought, being an athlete all through my high school years, if somebody’s on your team, you don’t trip them as they’re running towards the basket, you know? And that’s what it felt like, I got tripped a lot, or maybe tripped myself up, I don’t know. So it wasn’t the best fit for me, and I don’ really like shows like that, necessarily, where people argue, it’s like, I never wanted to be on Crossfire, I wanna do uplifting stuff. I don’t want to talk down to my audience and do thinner thighs in 30 days. I want to respect the women and the mothers who are home watching daytime. And, you know, I had a different attitude going in. And I think that we all learned that it’s not the best fit for me, you now.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, you also just made, I feel like, your guests comfortable on your show. I think fans of this podcast and people who’ve read my essay collection know that I love Tom Cruise. I wrote an essay about him. And I think that I fell in love with him from watching your show, to be honest. I think you think of him as a person, and I’m obsessed with the Mission Impossible movies now, too, but you think about him as person and there’s… There’s always so much to think about Tom Cruise, you know? But when he would sit on your couch, he seemed so comfortable just chatting with you and just also playing along with all the bits that you had with him.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, you know, I think he felt the love, and the love was real. And some people have said, oh, you were trying to pretend that you were straight. I’m like, I was not. I never said I wanted to have sex with him. I only said I want him to mow my lawn and bring me a lemonade, you now? I mean, I have to say that I saw, yeah, I saw a picture of him yesterday from the new Mission Impossible where he’s in like tidy black shorts and his body is ripped. And I was like, I looked at it and I went, oh my God, this man still does something to me. You know, and I don’t know how to explain it. I don’ know, I am a lesbian. I don’t want him naked in my bed. But there’s something about him that I’m very drawn to. And you know, people often say, well, don’t you have problem with his Scientology? We don’t have the kind of relationship where we’ve ever discussed that. You know I love and admire him. I would never want to hurt him or put him in an awkward place. I think everyone’s spiritual journey is their own. Do I approve of Scientology? I don’t. But do I have to approve of everything all my friends believe in? Would I be happy if he was freed from that? Yes. But whose decision is that? His. And you know, love doesn’t work like judgment. Love works like I feel about him, you know? And… You know, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. So I think the reason he always felt so comfortable is he didn’t feel under attack. And I think like that Matt Lauer interview, he felt under attack, and I think Oprah, you know, he fell under attack he didn’ feel adored and admired. And I really did adore and admire him on the show. And I adore and I admire him now. I mean, literally it was last night I saw it and I was like, Oh, jeez. You know, look at that guy!

 

Ira Madison III He even talks about jumping out. I mean, we see Mission Impossible now, and we’re like, oh my God, these crazy stunts. But on your episode, in like 98, he’s talking about Eyes Wide Shut, he talks about going skiing by jumping out of a helicopter. And he’s just always been into the rush.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Yeah. Now, we’ve only like had dinner three times in the whole time I’ve known him and he has never forgotten my birthday. He has never in 30 years forgotten to send me flowers on my birthday or sent me a cake on Christmas. He is the most kind and loving guy to me and that’s all that I can go by is how he treats me and how I feel when I’m around him and everyone else has their own experience and I’m not really here to judge, I’m just here to tell my truth and to love people.

 

Louis Virtel Before we go, I have to ask. So you mentioned Barbra Streisand. Are there any of your lesser known fandoms you’d like to shout out? I remember you talking once about, I think it was when Ellen and you had that quote unquote Lebanese conversation on your couch. And you in talking about it, you quoted a Tory Amos song. I was like, Whoa, like Rosie O’Donnell is like a Tory Amos person too.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Never was a cornflake, girl.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. See, right? Who knows this, Rosie O’Donnell? This is so exciting. Do you have lesser-known fandoms?

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, people who know me well know that Joni Mitchell lyrics are the Bible of my life. There’s never a big emotional moment that happens to me that I don’t quote and sing in my head a song of hers. There’s a time where I’m distraught or uneasy or worried or anxious that I put on her music and cry. She was on my show and it was some of my favorite episodes was when she was on. It was with her Both Sides Now album, and it was pretty amazing, truthfully. But there are so many people that I love in a way that is very surprising to others. But I would say the two most important influences in my life artistically were Barbra Streisand and Jodie Mitchell. But I love music, I love wonderful lyrics, I love poetry. I love amazing authors and writers that, you know, there are some writers that I read their book and I have to stop and take a deep breath and I get my highlighter out and put that sentence that I can’t believe they were able to come up with. Every book I have is full of underlines and I admire artists and I really consume a tremendous amount of art. And I think that’s how we learn. To feel and to know ourselves.

 

Ira Madison III Well, thank you so much for joining us, Rosie. I mean, it’s really been just an honor to chat with you.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Well, thank you. It’s very nice to meet you both and I’m going to listen to the podcast because I only heard about this the other day and I’d like to listen to them. And you’re so lovely, both of you. I’m gonna do that, so I’m gonna go subscribe.

 

Louis Virtel And also just in general, what you have contributed in general to, like, entertainment is heroic. Nothing short of heroic. You are amazing. Thank you so much.

 

Rosie O’Donnell Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate it.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you to Rosie O’Donnell. Unleashing Hope is streaming now on Hulu and Disney Plus. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

[AD]

 

Louis Virtel Drag Race All Stars is back for season 10 and the show has yet again reinvented itself. This time, it’s a cutthroat tournament featuring the franchise’s fiercest queens that were available. We’re going to get into the new format, the old queens and some of our famous drag race moments. Famous and favorite. I just want to say, my first question is what quality, single quality do you most value in a drag race contestant?

 

Adam Rippon Mm. Stupidity. Ha ha ha ha. Easily. Delusion. Like I need somebody who really is like not in on themselves at all. And that makes me all in on them.

 

Louis Virtel That’s an increasingly rare quality though, because like all these reality shows, namely a survivor, which I just said, people become so aware of what is a recipe for success that they repeat that. And that includes like their personality and like the way they joke around and stuff. But you’re talking about someone like, and she’s not stupid, but this is her vibe, Alyssa Edwards.

 

Adam Rippon I mean, even on All Stars right now, I have, I love Phoenix, like, and I don’t think Phoenix is stupid, but like when you watch like the clips that they show from her season, and they’re doing that like acting challenge, what I love, it’s like if she doesn’t have any lines, she’s taking a break. She’s like resting. She’s a moments away from going into like our like REM sleep. I would.

 

Ira Madison III I would argue she is stupid, though, you know, this feud with Ice Spice is very silly. You know, Phoenix has a feud with I-Spice?

 

Louis Virtel Well, I spice was the guest judge on the most recent episode, and she was fine, a fine judge, but she didn’t like Phoenix.

 

Ira Madison III She said, she said, I hear you’re supposed to be this legendary icon, but you were, you’re sort of nervous. You weren’t giving that. And I guess Phoenix’s response online was, I am a legendary icon. You should know me, okay? Like I’m that bitch, Yovanna from Clark. And Ice Spice was like, I still don’t remember who you are. Ice Spices has too many beefs to be worrying about.

 

Louis Virtel Track queen. Yeah, right. Come on. Also, Phoenix wasn’t giving. That was the worst performance of the episode, I have to say.

 

Ira Madison III The two people who don’t give clashing against one another, it’s like, you know, it’s an empty tides. You know, there’s nothing in the tray.

 

Louis Virtel Stupidity is a good answer. I think I ultimately do prefer the opposite, which is I need the quick wit. I need somebody who is going to contend with RuPaul and Michelle during the judge’s deliberations, give a one-liner. I like the alertness. I think also it can be unendearing when somebody seems a little too prepared and a little to whip smart. But I like the writing that line. I still think to this day, the funniest contestant in Drag Race history is Willem. Is the stand-up comedian level always has been. I’m not sure about this. In A Star Is Born, when he uses the phrase bus driver wig, did he improvise that? Like add that to the script? Cause it doesn’t sound like Bradley Cooper wrote it. Well, doesn’t it? Who knows what he’s aware of. But it sounds like his humor and it’s like, that is ace humor. It’s like comedian funny.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think what I need in a drag queen, especially one performing on RuPaul’s Drag Race, is generosity, generosity in the sense of, I’ve always said this about reality TV, it’s not just you performing, you know? Like you’re also part of an ensemble, I say this for like a face and a heel, like in wrestling, right? Like the face is the good person, the heel is the villain, you see this in real housewives, et cetera. Like if you are the heel, if you’re the villain. You can’t be then angry that you’re being perceived as the villain, you have to accept your role and sort of like give and take with the rest of the ensemble, right? I like generosity in a Drag Race queen where it’s like, if you are the villain on the show, you’re sort of stepping into that role, you allow other people to spar with you, you’re not constantly being like, I’m not mean, you know, instead of like, lean into it. But then if you’re also like a good person, Playing like back and forth with the rest of the cast, not just making it you, I just feel like there’s people who really work well in an ensemble.

 

Louis Virtel So a villain who accepts their villain status, it sounds like you are describing Gia Gunn.

 

Ira Madison III Like, come on, everything about her, and I think she’s one of my favorite Drag Race queens, just because… The nastiness. The nastiest, but it’s also like… Truly. The reads are so fun, and they’re sort of real nasty allowing you to respond, you know? It’s like, well, right, but what you wanna do is, you know, what you want to do is not exactly what you’re gonna do.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, this is a place for legends or whatever she says, just like the elitism.

 

Ira Madison III For everyone. Let’s just say that.

 

Louis Virtel No, you’re right. Accepting your role, though I think it’s fair not to really know what your role is at first, cuz you don’t know how it’s gonna be edited, etc. But you’re right, once you do- do just like be that.

 

Ira Madison III One of my favorite quotes ever comes from Gia Gunn, which people use all the time now, which is, you know, the club basement in New York. And it was, it’ll end like around like between seven and like nine AM most times. It’s her walking out. And I think, I don’t think Candy Muse is with her. Someone is with here, but she’s walking out, there’s a video of her walking out because you can’t record videos inside. And they’re like, how was basement? And she just says, it was a T. Everyone uses, it was a T now.

 

Louis Virtel Like, it’s so funny. Also, in a generic way, when the episode started, one of the two that aired in the premiere of RuPaul’s Drug Race All Stars 10. I hate those, by the way. I’m tired of the 2-part premieres. Oh, I know. Right, right. Yeah, but the first joke whatever they said they’re like There’s only one word that can be used to describe the talent level this season gaping. I love That kind of innuendo like even if I if I go away from Drag Race for a couple seasons and come back that kind of ribbled Gross humor. There’s no that it’s like you don’t get that on any other TV show Like that still has not been duplicated popular though. The show is And I can only be really thankful for that because that just makes me realize, oh, this show actually is for me, that you would be this disgusting on on camera.

 

Ira Madison III Okay, well, you’re clearly not watching the young Sheldon spinoff, but…

 

Louis Virtel Which, by the way, I only know about this.

 

Ira Madison III About this week, somebody and somebody’s first wedding or marriage.

 

Louis Virtel George and Maddie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, girl, this universe is, they’re going to keep going until they get to Big Bang Theory.

 

Louis Virtel No, right. It’s like, no, it’s like we’re out like it’s like the road to Bridgerton TV shows like it never fucking stops. Yeah. Who’s your favorite grade this season?

 

Adam Rippon Ah, who’s my favorite queen?

 

Louis Virtel You said Phoenix.

 

Adam Rippon Well, I love Phoenix. You know, it’s hard because we’ve only seen like the first part so far. But another one of my favorites is I have always loved Irene. Me too. I love Aja, but like Irene, I loved her when she got kicked off in that first episode in her season, I actually really liked the ice water talent.

 

Louis Virtel I thought it was funny. And also it’s like, it was supposed to just be a joke. You can say that the joke failed, but it’s they didn’t acknowledge what she was trying to do, that it was in fact a complete bit with a beginning, a middle, an end. Anyway, no, this episode, I was thrilled with Irene. They had to do a challenge that was hard rock themed and they lip synced to tracks they wrote themselves or verses they wrote themself. I have to say, you can tell that this person has a theater degree. Yeah. It was an actual tribute to the hilarity really of hard rock face acting. Yeah. I’m talking about like Motley Crue era, like Warren. She’s been to the drama book shop. If she would, yes, precisely. And then in the acting challenge later, which was themed kind of like RuPaul played a Hercule Poirot like figure, and she interviewed all of the queens as if they suspects. Her acting then when she put on like the suspect voice, really, really funny. And I actually sort of am mad at them for not acknowledging that her acting level was so far advanced from the rest of the crew. Yeah. I love Bosco, of course. I love the Bosco. Bosco is hilarious in the very challenge with the eye patch.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, and giving like so much more now that they’ve transitioned. Yes. Loving Bosco. And within the cast, I mean, I love Carrie Colby. She’s so gorgeous. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and just really that girl, just sweet.

 

Louis Virtel She’s that girl. They’re also, I am sympathetic to the supermodel girls because now that feels like a throwback, you know? Just we don’t like value the Naomi Campbell evangelista thing as much as we-

 

Ira Madison III We don’t really have supermodels, by the way. I was talking about this with the Frederickists, we don’t have that. Like, when you think about it, you know, I think also like you have, you have like the Gigi Hadid, you know you have these Atlas Consonnis, but like, are they giving supermodel? You know, supermodal to me means, right? And supermodals to me, means, who was the George Michael who would assemble these women and put them in the Freedom 90 video, okay? Who’s our current George Michael?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, like the queen who’s obsessed with supermodels? The closest we get is kind of like Ryan Murphy. He’s at least lady-oriented, but it’s not bad. We need a singer.

 

Ira Madison III You know, yeah, Troy, get away from the pop divas and start hanging out with Supermodel.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And I feel like the vestments of George Michael appeal to Troye Sivan. He would have the earring, he would have this leather jacket.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I think that when Troy came out at Coachella for Charlie XCX’s set, he was actually giving George Michael to me. I said that to someone. He had like leather pants, he had like a white tank cut off. And he was like, the first time he was really giving like man to me, and I know the joke is always him saying, I’m a tot, not a bottom, remember? Like he was giving tot. Yeah, with his sexy mealworm dancing.

 

Adam Rippon I think that he just needs like 10 more years and 20 more pounds and you’re gonna get the models out there. Yeah, he’s a little too young. I believe that.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I believe that yeah, no, but he’s in the ectomorph universe like me That’s gonna be a hard fought 20 pounds and the music is getting better. He started

 

Ira Madison III twink music and now it’s a little it’s like sexy you know it’s very it’s like it’s it’s Fire Island music and I think I think he’s getting there

 

Louis Virtel Now, I also want to say about Drag Race that I think a part of watching it, namely if you’re a gay guy, is a part if you kind of wonders if you could compete on it, if you like put your all into it, where do you think you would most excel, Adam?

 

Adam Rippon I think I’d excel on the show in general and then I would really not excel as soon as I got back. Because I do think that I would go, okay, now I got to do this full time. I am afraid of the person I would become as soon I get like the professional makeup done. So I don’t know. I feel like, you know, because I am, why do I love the stupidity of the drag queens? You know, you look in the mirror, you see what you want right back at you. So I am thinking that like, I would. Be amazing, I’d be incredible to my downfall, you know, that I’m saying, I do think I’d be good on the show, get back home. It’s a rough life. It’s rough next 20.

 

Ira Madison III It is. It’s like you are constantly working and you’re constantly booking gigs, you know, and it’s just like, it’s not an easy life like people would assume, you

 

Louis Virtel And it’s not always like a wrapped audience either, you know, like who the bars you end up at or whatever. Like it’s, it’s always like the fawning crowds at RuPaul’s Drag Race or even just like the incredible feedback you get from judges. I’m sure they miss that once they’re off the show. I’m sorry. Like how?

 

Ira Madison III Many guests, you know, now, it’s sort of changed culture, too, where they sort of are like, I don’t want to go to this bar if there’s going to be a drag show. They just want to a club, they want to party. Right, right.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And that drag kind of feels like an interruption of like a dance party. I was just at Queen in Chicago, which is their rowdy Sunday night thing, you know? And there was a drag performance. That was good. But at the same time, I’m like, let me wipe the sweat from my face to be able to see you. Like, I feel bad that I’m the audience right now. I have lizard pupils. Who are your favorite queens? Great question. I mean, like I do love Willem, but Alaska, I think is an all-timer for me. And I have to say jinx monsoon because. Not only does she deliver on every level, like an incredible vocalist, obviously tearing up Broadway right now. The vastness of her interest is what I love. It’s not just beauty or it’s not just vaudevillian humor or whatever. She brings it all together and then all of the humor is always on point. It is not just silly or kind of frivolous. Like she can be pointed. Like she can read somebody too. And I think the fact that she has so much in her arsenal keeps are surprising to me as well.

 

Ira Madison III Mm-hmm. I love, well, I mean, I’m friends with Harusbin, so I feel like I have to say her by gunpoint, but I do really love Aquaria. Oh, she’s great, and I love running into her. Yes, fantastic, funny. Another queen who I feel like people love Aqualia, and she’s so talented, and she so funny, and see how much work she puts into her shows and everything, but also seems like a person who… Like she hasn’t gone back and done All-Stars, you know? So like, All-Star sort of gives you that boost of like being back in like the TV sphere, et cetera. But also I think that like some queens shouldn’t have to go back to All-stars. Right.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, again, it is this sort of, I mean again, it feels like Ryan Murphy. He builds like, RuPaul builds this like network of people and you can expect to see them again at some point generally, but it’s about a game you have to choose to play. So, I mean I can understand winning the show and not wanting to go back. And I also have to mention.

 

Ira Madison III Always wins. If you win the show, you come back, like, baby, the blackjack table will not be kind to you. Right, right.

 

Louis Virtel I have to bring up Simone also, who at the minute Simone premiered and gave that performance of Pleasure Principle. Yeah. Yeah. Diva. As my friends and I were unpacking her performance afterwards, we literally had to sit and figure out why we liked it so much. Not only was she, all of her choices funny, but she found things in the music that other people wouldn’t have even paid attention to and turned those into character moments. You realize when you watch lip syncing sometimes, I’ll actually say quite a bit the time. It’s a lot of tricks that we’ve seen a lot, and it’s easy to be unenthused with the lip sync because you feel like you’re just going to get a string of cliches. I feel like Simone never.

 

Ira Madison III Interpret the song. A lot of people are giving the pleasure, Dean of Students. She was giving pleasure, Prince of Ball, okay? She might be the provost. She runs this district. I also love, Monet is just so funny. Yeah, funny. Funny, Monet and Bob are fantastic. I love their podcast. And also Bob did an amazing job opening for Madonna. If you’re at home. I hope you’re not taking shots every time Lewis mentions Madonna.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, no. No, you’re like in a leaving Las Vegas place if you’re drinking that much.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, those are queens.

 

Adam Rippon Like, I think I have my, like, favorite queens who I just, like love as stand-alones. Like, you’re right, like I love Alaska, I love Alyssa, I love Violet Chachki. I think she’s so funny.

 

Ira Madison III Of Violet sharing a Fire Island house this year.

 

Louis Virtel She also is a sharply critical person.

 

Ira Madison III Yes!

 

Louis Virtel Which I love. Yes, no, I love it.

 

Adam Rippon I love it. But one of my real favorites is Coco Montrese. Yeah. That is somebody who’s bought into their own fantasy. Like, it’s so fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel This on this past episode where a Bosco won the lip sync and was doing the dress choreography that took me back to CoCo Montrese doing that Paula Abdul cold hearted lip sync.

 

Adam Rippon Pointing to the lips, not missing a word, that’s incredible.

 

Ira Madison III By the way, put through that into pop culture, because how many gays like do that now when they’re like playing, when a song’s playing? It’s like, I do know the words. That’s you with Lil’ Kim, the jump off. Oh, right, my karaoke song.

 

Louis Virtel To this day, which by the way worries everybody in the audience. But if you listen to the Paula Abdul cold hearted rap, a lot of it is doublespeak. That’s like the recording is played twice basically. So it’s not like she’s actually saying it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel So it’s really hard to do. It was a really impressive athletic feat, I’ll say, for the lip.

 

Ira Madison III More people should be doing a lip sync. If they love doing that song, they should be a lip-sync of Mariah Carey’s Prisoner, which I always throw on for people, and their shop that has a rap breakdown at the end. From Mariah.

 

Louis Virtel I bet she’s a good rapper.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, she is. What album is that? That’s the first one, self-titled Mariah Carey. Which a lot of that is underrated now, like girls don’t know love takes time. Sent From Up Above, All Alone In Love, that is one of my favorite fucking albums. She came out the gate mad as hell.

 

Louis Virtel Right. When she was like 19. Yeah. She like still the Tommy Matola mixtape in her hand. Mm-hm. Yeah, fantastic album. Yeah we also are friends with the Vixen, who brought great angst to the show.

 

Ira Madison III The Vixen era was so, I caught it. Also, those are like productive little fights. Yes, real dramatic fights too. And we also don’t really get those anymore. I just sort of don’t love untucked anymore. I feel like it’s always- It comes and goes. You can’t predict where it’ll be going. Here’s the celebrity coming backstage. I know, but stick them in a room, make them open a box, answer some questions. The questions that have now gone over to like real housewives. You know, like. Who do you trust the least at this table? Give us that shit, okay?

 

Louis Virtel Which by the way, I still think do you guys remember that show that was Canadian but aired here on like logo? Like one girl five gays or whatever. Yes, baby that did you ever see this Adam was no I ever I didn’t but I remember

 

Adam Rippon I didn’t, but I remember it, but I never saw an episode. It was so good. Why isn’t that like-

 

Louis Virtel a huge franchise. Like I would sit and watch every episode of these queens talking about like. What’s the premise? Literally just a girl would sit there and ask a question to five gay guys and it would be like, it could be sexual or it could completely impersonal and cute, like something about food, whatever. But it was people just gabbing and it was really good TV. I should do this. I should buy this whole.

 

Ira Madison III Operation. Yeah, bring it back. Yeah. No, just one, you know one one gay one gay five dolls Dang. Oh, that’s the next iteration

 

Louis Virtel In fact, that’ll be the next Queer Eye iteration. Doll eye for the cis something. Yeah, hide your drugs.

 

Ira Madison III All right, well, when we’re back. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Adam, as our guest of honor, you get to go first. Thank you so much.

 

Adam Rippon Um, you know, my keep it this week is, uh, the Netflix series, You. And specifically, Penn Badgley. So my husband and I, we started to, we were going to start watching the new season. But it made me remember that You is like so chaotic. So as soon as it started and they did that one recap, I had no idea what was going on. So we looked at each other and we did the most reasonable thing that we could do. We had to start at not the beginning. Because, you know, they really kind of let season one come and go. Season two, we had to start from season two. Really, I did not think I was ever going to like you and for me when when JP was going to play it for me I knew that this would sort of be like the background show and I’d be on my phone, but it sucked me totally in So I think you is my keep it and because pen I think that he looks like a million different people in the show. Sometimes I look at him I’m like you’re so hot and then I look him and I’m That’s not the hot guy from five minutes ago

 

Ira Madison III Well, famously, I’m in season two.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, Ira had a cameo in season two. And as you know, the phone’s been off the hook ever since. You can’t stop acting.

 

Ira Madison III That’s, I came here to ask you about that. Yes, yes. Booked more than Cooper Koch, okay?

 

Louis Virtel I love, first of all, I think Penn Badgley is a really good actor. And then secondly, the girl on season two who I was fawning over at the time, Victoria Pedretti, she was amazing on that show. Where’s she at? She’s in kind of everything though. I feel like she pops up all over the place. She was in like haunting of Hill House, right? Really good actress.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I love you. I need to catch up. A lot happened in the previous season. And I was just like, there’s a lot going on. They were hunting people in the house and everything. It was in London too.

 

Louis Virtel Too much, yeah. Louis, what is your key fit? Okay, so as you may have heard, speaking of Netflix, there is the plan to do a limited series about the life of Madonna, which is apart from the concept of a biopic that was gonna have Julia Garner in it. Apparently that’s still existent in some way, but she still may star in this anyway. There may be a Madonna limited series on Netflix. I can’t imagine she will seed enough power to make that happen. But her collaborator on this, and of course, before we had speculated that maybe she would work with Brian Murphy, who I’m sure is a gigantic Madonna fan and I think would service the material that is her life really well. Instead, she is making it with Sean Levy, who she knows because she lent like a prayer to his movie, Deadpool and Wolverine, which I’ll just say it was not, which was not a monumental moment in queer cinema for me. Um, or cinema the in sync song in that movie was queerer. Yes. No have I talked to you about totally My girlfriend’s kids only know That song from that movie. So they think it’s kind of like a macho Anthem and like the boys all play it together Meanwhile, if you played that and you were 13 if you were ironized age in 1999 Violent behavior hate crime. Yes, right By your teacher. Yes But Sean Levy’s other works include Night at the Museum, Secret of the Tomb, The Internship, okay. Real Steel, Date Night, not one of Tina’s best. The Pink Panther, Cheaper by the Dozen, Steve Martin’s Seen Better Days. I loved it. Wait, The Internship.

 

Ira Madison III You’re thinking of the intern. Sorry, I was wrong. Internship is a Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson joint.

 

Louis Virtel And excuse me, Vince Vaughn, if you are, that’s an additional key, but he’s in some movie called Nana’s about old ladies who make Italian food. And Susan Sarandon got roped into it. Is Straka in it? No, Miss Nona did not show up. Damn it! She kept the rolling pin at home. Wow. Okay, well then I don’t want to see it. I know, I know. I just am very uninspired so far by this collaboration, especially since I want this to exist. I don’ want RuPaul’s Drag Race to have to educate people about the career of Madonna and how it’s different from every pop career that followed.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I mean, I’m looking at Sean Levy’s filmography at the moment. And I think, you know, date night is the good one.

 

Louis Virtel And then he followed up with another not great TNFA joint, This Is Where I Leave You, which did have Jane Fonda playing a grandmother who has a sexual awakening that arrived. Actually, you know what? I did kind of like free guy. Never saw. With Ryan Reynolds? Right. Yeah, love him. Anybody who’s that close with Ryan Reynolds, do we need him dealing with the Madonna deal? I don’t know. Well, I’d let Blake Lively be involved in the Madonna project. I don’ hate that idea. By the way, I mean to congratulate you. I was talking with somebody. Last week where they were obsessive about the Justin Beldoni Blake Lively situation, and yet they said that was the only thing in pop culture they cared about. So I’m just listening. Yeah, letting them opine and opine. I’m realizing this is all kind of anti Blake, which okay, then the name Candice Owens comes up. I mean, oh, that’s how they’re getting fed this Candice. Owens is like serialized this Yeah, and turned it into like her. Like that’s her moneymaker.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, which by the way, I saw another simple favor. Oh. Abysmal, and I want to watch 10 more. Yeah. Truly horrible, but I loved it. Blake Lively, get back to the making bad movies joint. Yeah. Okay. I forgot all about the drama in this. And I was like, Blake, love you. Yeah. Okay. Like make another savages, okay? Make a Gossip Girl reboot. I just love Blake Lely and her acting.

 

Adam Rippon That’s where she shines. It is, okay. Like that’s where it, yeah, I’m so on your side.

 

Ira Madison III She was too front-facing, okay? She was trying to be America’s sweetheart. But you just need to be.

 

Louis Virtel Acting and also in that in if I remember correctly from simple favor. I haven’t seen the follow-up yet. She also is like Bitchy humor, you know, it’s it’s like but I like Julia Roberts had her best. It’s like, oh, I’m afraid of Julia cuz she’s mean to

 

Ira Madison III Yes, and you know what? Lean into being mean, play a bitch, okay? Like, we love bitches. We don’t like people who pretend not to be bitches. Right.

 

Louis Virtel Just be the bitch.

 

Ira Madison III Right. Yes, yes.

 

Adam Rippon You can only pretend for so long right before it comes creeping out

 

Louis Virtel Are you a good bitch or a bad bitch? And also, that’s the number one way to get gay people not to like you, because we’re the first to sniff that out. I’m sorry, I’m not saying we’re that talented, but we are the first to sniff it out.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s the only thing we look for evidence in, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Alright, and Ira?

 

Ira Madison III What is your keep it this week? This is a weary keep it.

 

Louis Virtel Oh god

 

Ira Madison III You went down like three decibel levels. So my Keep It This Week goes to Cynthia Erivo. Cynthia Erivo will be playing all 23 roles in A One Woman Dracula, which is running at the Noel Cowart Theater, February 4th to May 31st, 2026. Child, do we need to see this? Do I need to this? And where are we at currently in theater with this whole, I’m going to play all the parts. Gag, you know, it’s clearly the way for producers to be like, here’s a stunt. Yeah, game the Tonys. Here’s a start, game, the Tonies. It’s giving biopic in Hollywood, you now, game the Tony’s and then also let’s save money on a cast.

 

Louis Virtel Mm. Right. Let’s not pay people. Let’s talk about these supporting actresses who don’t get to be in these things. Right. If you’re not, if you’re making a play and there’s nothing for Jane Howdy Shell, now I’m angry. Okay. I know what she deserves.

 

Ira Madison III Now, the Sarah Snook picture of Dorian Gray is allegedly iconic. I do need to go and see it. Last week, some of our listeners were a little angry in the comments because we ignored Sarah We’re like, you guys hate Sarah Snok. First of all, I guess some Snookies just listened to that episode because they wanted to know if we were going to talk about Sarah Snuk. First of, all we love Sarah Snuck on this show. Okay? I love succession. Lewis. Enjoy Sarah Snook in Succession. And first of all, this podcast is a part of Sarah Snuck lore. If you recall, when Succession first came out, I ran into Sarah Snuk at a Hollywood reporter event or something, and I said, girl, I love you, and also we have the same birthday. And I was like, it’s July 28th. And she said, that’s actually not my birthday. Remember she kept trying to change it on Wikipedia. But it kept changing back even though it was her doing it. And so I mentioned her actual birthday and that conversation on the podcast and then someone changed it and cited our episode as the source. So this podcast is responsible for Sarah Snook’s real birthday being on Wikipedia. And you saved journalism. Yeah, so don’t you ever.

 

Louis Virtel Accused me of being anti snook and also I just love people who are secret Australians You know just like they they have no reason to use their accent in their work And we never hear it and they seem very convincing as Americans We had a conversation with Tony Collette one time about how it’s rare that people do that really well obviously she does She’s like the queen of that yeah, but Sarah snook amazing, and I’m seeing that play this

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of Australians, there was a conversation on a podcast or something recently, I can’t remember which one, but about how Gen Z, or maybe it was, no, it was on TikTok. It was Tell the Bees, I love this TikTok account, usually talks about housewives, but from a psychology degree, so he talks about it from that perspective, just talking about how gen Z has really has no idea who Naomi Watts is.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I mean, they would maybe know her from that Swan show. Yeah. What else?

 

Ira Madison III Nicole’s friend. Yeah, right. They don’t really they know the ring you bring it up, but like they’re not thinking about Naomi Watts You know, right? Yeah, though the ring would be I guess. Yes, but um or Kong

 

Louis Virtel And also she’s going to be in that new show All’s Fair with Kim Kardashian. Why does Ryan Murphy need us to see Kim Kardashian act? Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Okay, I think it’s giving nip-tuck tease and like the trailer is giving that level of optimism Well, that’s the net that’s that I love. Yeah, you know, I loved me see Nash Tiana Taylor You got Glenn close in it. You know, she’s gonna be giving us some patty

 

Louis Virtel Your lips to God’s ears. As you know, Patty Hughes is the greatest television performance of all time.

 

Ira Madison III Um, I just want to like circle back to the Cynthia Revo thing and say that obviously Sarah Snook is doing it and that you have, um, Andrew Scott. I still need to see his O’Vanya, but even that people are like, I’m going to see it for myself, but it’s just like, what are we doing here?

 

Louis Virtel Well, it’s just one of those things where I think it could seem overly annoying eventually. I’m not at that point yet. If we start getting these every year, I do think it will start to feel less special after a while.

 

Ira Madison III It’s just like, okay.

 

Louis Virtel Second stage after Vanity Project has hit the towers. And also, Cynthia Revo, we’re about to have another media blitz of hers, not just the second part of Wicked, but now there’s gonna be a live Wicked concert on network TV with Ariana. Yep, they just announced at the up-runs.

 

Adam Rippon Which we have. When is that happening?

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I would love to be in the audience. I was so upset when they did that Wicked anniversary concert a few years ago and Ariana sang the Wizard and I in it. And I was like, who are these Wicked fans who were selected to be on this? I love Wicked. So I’m fine with the press blitz. And it is always smart to be on a Broadway show when you’re having like a movie like press blits. Cause as we talked about with Darren Criss, right? You know, you can’t really be celebrate. Like, the movie is… A year ago or something. So when you win, there’s no way for like the audience to sort of, fans to celebrate you, et cetera. But the day you’re nominated for an Oscar, right? Or the Oscars are coming up and then you win et cetera, people can then applaud you in the theater. Adam, do you most stan any particular musical?

 

Adam Rippon I mean, for me, Pennsylvania, board and bread, obviously, I love. 42Nd Street. No, Annie, because I’m going to tell you why. There’s a real moment in my life where I went, I think show business is the life for me. And that’s when on the today show, they were showing like the competitive auditions of, uh, of Annie on Broadway. And I remember it so vividly. So many Irish Catholic looking redhead curly girls. And real orphans too. Straight from an Irish step dancing competition. Oh yeah, and orphans. It was just, it was unbelievable. And I just, that’s when I knew I was meant to be an orphan on the Today Show.

 

Ira Madison III And also, that’d be a fun show, by the way. A Daddy Warbucks going and picking some orphans, competing who’s gonna be my real-life Annie. Oh, you think it should be based in reality? Very Fox 2000s reality TV. That would be fun to watch.

 

Adam Rippon Like right before The Swan, which was one of my favorite shows.

 

Ira Madison III Exactly right and the orphans who don’t get picked they go back to ms. Hannigan and also the judge should be like should be

 

Louis Virtel Wallace smoking and being like, none of this next. If you don’t win, back to poverty.

 

Ira Madison III Then no parent.

 

Louis Virtel That could be the name of the show. Back to poverty. Finally, real stakes.

 

Ira Madison III That’s what we’re missing, I bring them back. I said 42nd Street, by the way, just because the lead, she leads Allentown. Right, yes, yes.

 

Adam Rippon Yeah, no, that’s well, Allentown is like one of the big cities for us.

 

Ira Madison III My ex-boyfriends from Allentown. That’s the only reason I know Allentound exists. That and 42nd Street. Fun show, I do like 42nd street. Yeah, what’s your favorite musical?

 

Louis Virtel Movie cabaret, so something I would like to see live. God, that’s such a good, and also Sound of Music is one of the few movie musicals where every song is good. Otherwise, I would, I, I would like see Victor Victoria live.

 

Ira Madison III Mmm, yeah, gorgeous musical. I think my favorite is, it’s always like back and forth because it’s like there’s Sondheim, where, you know, it’s Sweeney Todd, Little Shop of Horrors. Of course, yes. And then also Thoroughly Modern Millie. Oh, yes, crazy movie. Which I need to see live. I need see live

 

Adam Rippon That was the first Broadway show I ever saw live. Oh my god. Yes, so I am living your dream.

 

Ira Madison III Was it Sutton? I’m so jealous. My first ever Broadway show was Sweet Charity with Christina Applegate.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, lovely. Yeah. I think my first one, I didn’t get to New York until much later. I saw Hamilton. Hamilton, wow. It makes me seem like I’m nine years old. My first Broadway show was last week. You better believe I saw Ms. Goldsberry and that performance rattles inside me to this day. Her like heaving chest as she sings that song. What’s it called? Satisfied, Amazing. Renee Goldsbury is that girl. Yes. She’s that girl, that woman. Wonderful on Girls 5EVA as well. Adam, thank you so much for being here this week and for being a survivor of religion as we all are.

 

Adam Rippon Yeah, thank you for congratulating me on my surviving. And it’s been a pleasure as it is always. Thank you guys.

 

Ira Madison III One could say you skate it out of the church’s clutches. Oh my God. Thank you.

 

Adam Rippon I’m gonna steal that.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. From the church to the ice, okay?

 

Louis Virtel Title ice steeples as opposed to castles and also by the way thank you to

 

Ira Madison III for being here. Look at me in New York. Yeah. And thank you to Sirius for this studio, which I’ve never been in.

 

Louis Virtel No, right. And thank you to the glorious Rosie O’Donnell, whom I said has contributed heroically to entertainment. I cannot believe we got to speak to her. She was so lovely. Icon.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah out there and

 

Louis Virtel Right, a real Colleen.

 

Ira Madison III Baby, we might join you. Yeah, our time will come. Things go a little bit more south, keep it Ireland. All right, we will see you next week with more of this show that you love. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And, if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Louis Virtel Keep It is a Crooked Media Production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill. And our executive producers are Ira Madison III, Louis Virtel, and Kendra James.

 

Ira Madison III Our digital team is Delan Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.

 

Louis Virtel Our Head of Production is Matt DeGroot and Madeline Harringer is our Head of Programming. Our Production Staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

 

Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as filmed in front of a live studio audience.