Ira, Louis, and guest host Drew Afualo discuss the Jake Paul and Mike Tyson fight, People’s Sexiest Man Alive, Wicked and their favorite movie musicals, and new music from Gwen Stefani and Flo. Pablo Larraín joins to discuss his new film Maria, how he’d make a Madonna biopic, and more.

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TRANSCRIPT

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel, wearing my Thanksgiving sweater since we won’t be here next week. I wanted to give you a little bit of a harvest, as you know. I care deeply about this season, Ira.

 

Ira Madison III You love a turtleneck.

 

Louis Virtel I do. If I can look like a mean German person. You know, like. Like. Like. Like an architect who’s building something nefarious. I’m going to do it.

 

Ira Madison III It’s apt you bring up the Germans, you know, And I don’t mean because, you know, we’re sliding into 1940s, Germany and America. I mean, our dear. Our guest this week, Pablo Larrain, is here to talk about the fantastic film Maria with us. And he brings up, you know, some German cinema. He’s a great director. It’s a great interview. I, like watched his entire Criterion Top ten list that he made when Jackie came out as a woman under her influence in it. Fantastic movies.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, anybody who cares that deeply about Jackie Kennedy has an opinion, I’m going to dial into it. That’s just the way it is.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel But wait a minute.

 

Ira Madison III Another straight man who cares about divas.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Thank you. Thank you God.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Now, speaking of divas.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III We have a returning diva to keep it this week. The one and only Drew Afualo is here.

 

Drew Afualo I’m here. I’m back.

 

Ira Madison III Hello, Drew. Listen, last time you were here, you were promoting your book.

 

Drew Afualo Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And now it’s out in the world.

 

Drew Afualo It sure is girl.

 

Ira Madison III It was a success. How are you doing?

 

Drew Afualo I’m good. I haven’t slept all year. I love that. But I’m happy to be back. Y’all can’t get rid of me. And clearly.

 

Louis Virtel We love elevating a standout guest to, you know, guest host roles. You know, it’s like very SNL. You were a recurring player and now you have like your signature characters you do with us.

 

Drew Afualo Right. When I come on the set, everyone cheers like they remember me from previous episodes.

 

Drew Afualo You know?

 

Ira Madison III Now, you were teasing us a bit before because you are the only one on this podcast currently who has seen Wicked already. Right.

 

Drew Afualo I had to bring it up. Obviously, Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I’m dying to see this film.

 

Drew Afualo I can’t wait for you all to see it. I was just telling both y’all that I was gagged to my core. It was so unbelievable. I’ve loved musical theater for so long. I love Broadway, so I thought they were fantastic. I thought they were perfectly cast. The entire thing. Love it.

 

Louis Virtel It also is blowing my mind. Several people have said that it really does feel like a complete movie, even though we are going to get a whole other chapter of Wicked next year. Did it feel like a complete enterprise to you?

 

Drew Afualo Absolutely. And it flew by like 2.5 hours. Like you’d think like at some point you’re kind of like you’re dragging, like, let’s get to the good stuff. The entire time I couldn’t believe it. And there were certain parts like I was emotional throughout the entire thing, obviously, because it’s wicked. But there were certain parts where I was crying so hard in the things I thought I was gonna have to excuse myself if I was having a nervous breakdown was like, I think I need to go collect myself. Because it’s just not good. It’s just. It’s so unbelievable. Like, truly blown away. Loved it. I can’t wait to see it a million more times. When I say.

 

Louis Virtel I resisted the idea that Ariana Grande would be an Oscar nominee coming up for a while because I feel like we’ve had a glut of singers who like, like get to the silver screen and then we just allowed them to have an Oscar nomination. I’m looking at you, Mary J. Blige. But honestly.

 

Ira Madison III It was in the mud, okay? She was down and dirty, was bound to my back.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel But honestly, we don’t have a ton of prestige movies this Oscar season. And if Ariana is going to get reviews like that, she belongs in the category. So it sounds like she really nailed it.

 

Drew Afualo No, she was in my humble, like, uneducated, stupid little brain opinion. I think she was fantastic. I thought she was like, unbelievable. But truly, like Cynthia Erivo shine so incredibly bright. They’re like, they’re such a perfect pairing. Like, they they really nailed it, like, genuinely. And I thought Ariana’s Glinda was very different. Like, it’s very, you know, even Garland and Elphaba over the years, like people have been like, I like this one more. I like this one more for very specific reasons. But I feel like the two of them brought something completely different to both roles, and that’s why it was so fun and entertaining. And so, God, I can’t wait. I will entertain. No slander. I thought it was perfect.

 

Ira Madison III I haven’t heard any.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. Neither.

 

Ira Madison III I shockingly have not heard any slander. And they have I have not seen a screening in New York yet and I don’t know who I have to kill, but it’s finalizing on a Thursday, so whatever. But I like Broadway Gay bitches. I’ve seen this film, okay? And they’ve come away loving it.

 

Louis Virtel The meanest people. The rudest people. Yeah.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III The rudest ass people, okay? And they love it.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. Especially something like Wicked. They’re so protective over that specific musical and those two roles. Fantastic. And I’ve loved their arrival forever, and I was just telling you all, I’m sad. I’m so happy that other people are giving her her flowers and people are saying how fantastic she is. I’m sad because I felt like I was gatekeeping Loki for a while and she was my secrets. And now everybody knows about her, which I’m happy about. She deserves it. She’s fantastic.

 

Ira Madison III She’s here.

 

Drew Afualo Right?

 

Louis Virtel I still can’t get over when she performs that song. And there’s that clip of somebody. She’s getting to the high note, and before she gets there, you just hear somebody yell, It’s yours. It’s so funny.

 

Drew Afualo Take it. Right. So it was so good. And I will say to Ariana Grande, like, you can’t really tell. It’s Ariana Grande back in the movie. I know. Everybody was really worried about that, like it was going to, it’s just Ariana Grande, you know? But I thought she was fantastic. They were both just I’m nothing bad to say about it. And it makes me sound so predictable. I don’t care. It was fantastic. Can we just say in a million more times.

 

Louis Virtel I missed it because I was wondering if I was going to miss the Chenoweth component because like, people know, she’s a brilliant singer, but Kristin Chenoweth also always funny. Like we had her on the podcast one time. IRA and I were dying. It was like fully standup. Like, she’s like she’s like really a tried and true comedian. So the idea that Arianna can live up to that is fabulous, right?

 

Drew Afualo And it’s like and it’s one of those where it’s obviously it’s not like the OG. It’s completely different. And that’s what I think people needed. Like they needed something completely different. I think it was trying too hard to be Kristin Chenoweth. I think people would have hated it, Yeah, but I think she made her own lane and she nailed it.

 

Louis Virtel What was the last musical? I mean, I know I liked Amelia Perez, and you didn’t really like it either, but what was the last musical you like were into.

 

Drew Afualo Where I just watched Emilia Perez. I did watch that two days ago. Okay. I loved the story. The music. You know, they’ll.

 

Ira Madison III Say, say a girl. Say a girl.

 

Drew Afualo Okay, okay, okay. No for sure for sure. I just feel like the storyline itself was so strong. Don’t need the rest of it. Don’t need the rest of it.

 

Louis Virtel It definitely is not. You don’t hum the songs when you leave that theater. But to me, my explanation is I felt like the music was just monologues the characters were giving. So I don’t think of them as sort of like breakout pop singles. It’s not like you’re it’s not like The Sound of Music in that way or something.

 

Drew Afualo That’s true. I will say, like one part of me was like, Well, at least they’re not very long. Like if they went on for a very long time, I would be like, turn it off. But I wanted to see how it ended. I thought Zoe Saldana was unbelievable.

 

Louis Virtel She is that bitch. She said she’s going to wipe out the Oscars this year.

 

Drew Afualo I think truly, I thought she was fantastic. I thought the storyline was unbelievable. I thought the actress who played Amelia Perez was unbelievable, too. Like, I thought the chemistry was so great. That’s why I was like, Why is it music? Why does it have music?

 

Ira Madison III Well, I think the last two good movie musicals, I mean, and I would actually say that they’re both stunning. One of them is my favorite to come out this decade is Steven Spielberg’s West Side Story, which is very underrated somehow.

 

Louis Virtel Even though it has an Oscar winning performance in it. Yeah, I.

 

Drew Afualo Know.

 

Ira Madison III And tick, tick, boom.

 

Louis Virtel Fucking love. Tick, tick, tick, boom.

 

Drew Afualo I’ve never seen that one.

 

Do you know what I like about Tick Tick Boom?

 

Ira Madison III Netflix, baby?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, It’s Andrew Garfield as Jonathan Larson. And I have to say, because it is reverential to him as a creator of rent, but at the same time, it does not like hide away from Mike. Also, you got to be a little bit of a D bag to run musicals in this world, and like, he gets into that too. So I just feel like that’s a very complete character.

 

Drew Afualo Love Yeah. I saw West Side Story. West Side Story is one of my favorite Broadway musicals of all time. I loved I’ve loved West Side Story forever, too. I thought Rachel Ziegler was unbelievable in that. So I love West Side Story, too. I also love The Color Purple. I thought that one was Fan Wolf, so I’m like, Yeah, I know. I love The Color Purple, but I also love, I think part of me, my biases work against me because The Color Purple is one of my favorite Broadway musicals. That’s actually how I found Cynthia Erivo and actually was through purple. So I think my bias has worked a little bit against me and that I loved. I loved that one too. But yeah, I’ve never seen tick, tick, boom. I have to get into it.

 

Ira Madison III It’s fantastic to go and see it. And I you know, the last thing I’ll say about musicals is I did see Death Becomes Hard this week. Really?

 

Louis Virtel I wanted to go for it.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Honestly, the musical is hilarious. Megan Hilty, Jennifer Simard, Christopher Sieber. They are fantastic. Christopher is amazing. Jennifer is amazing. I think that the characterizations in this film sort of take the movie and make it modern and elevated. It’s funny, the best part about it is the stunts really. Stunts are they replicate Madeline Ashton’s fall Down the stairs and it is the director, Christopher Gately, was a choreographer first, and now he directed and choreographed this. And so everything about that is fantastic. Like the missing the head stuff is great, like illusions done on stage. Everything is great. And the fight scenes, they, you know, put in stunt doubles and sort of like a nod to Dynasty almost, where there are men fighting in dresses. So I think it’s very funny. And unfortunately, Michelle Williams is just a singer.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Well, I mean, it’s not really much of an acting role. I will say, though, you know what? This the.

 

Ira Madison III They gave her more to do in this.

 

Louis Virtel One. Really? Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Because it’s a star.

 

Louis Virtel So the scuttlebutt around this musical actually reminds me a little bit about Xanadu, which is it’s a movie that had a fan base in a campy way, but it sounds like the musical really takes the great elements and pulls them out and draws them into into a production. You don’t have to like. Ironically, because I’m not that big of course it of the movie, which makes me unpopular among humans.

 

Ira Madison III Really? Yeah. Xanadu, I will say, is a better musical than that becomes her because Xanadu, or at least the songs that are I mean, they’re yellow as well. And then there are original songs to the songs are just better. I would say the only legend maybe becomes are the songs are hilarious, but I don’t know if they’re iconic musical theater canon, but there’s a few that are great. I had a great fucking time and I would see it again, to be honest.

 

Drew Afualo I love that every time I go to New York, I try to see another show, like a show I haven’t seen before. So obviously I’ve seen Wicked on Broadway. I’ve seen six. Like I thought six was fantastic. I well, I always recommend six if people are going like they want to see a show, but they have people with them that don’t really like Broadway and they’re not really big, you know, theater fans. I always suggest six because there’s no there is acting in it, but it’s mostly just vocals. Like it’s just a crazy vocalists kind of show and their vocals are on. Believable. They don’t change costumes. They very rarely switch like sets and they are so funny, like the acting.

 

Ira Madison III It’s shorter than an episode of Gray’s Anatomy.

 

Drew Afualo Exactly and I love I loved it. I was so thoroughly entertained. Like I took my whole family to go see six and like half of my family really doesn’t like musicals. The other half does. And we all had a great time.

 

Louis Virtel I would say.

 

Drew Afualo We had.

 

Louis Virtel Six for that reason. And also, Omari, the play is good to take people to if they’re not theater because it’s just 80 minutes like six. It’s like you’re done before. Like Celebrity Apprentice was longer than that.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, exactly. That’s actually tea. The attention spans important a factor too. So. Yeah, yeah. I love that. We all love musicals. Love that for us.

 

Ira Madison III Of course, that little tidbit Nicole Scherzinger was supposed to play the Michelle Williams part. Initially, she was in the readings. She was in the initial readings for Death Becomes in the musical playing that part. And having seen Nicole in Sunset Boulevard, she the comic timing, she has a Nat she would have been fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel I agree. She would be amazing. And she is shockingly funny on Sunset Boulevard. I mean, not that if you watch the original movie with Gloria Swanson, there are funny moments, but kind of not drawn out the way Nicole draws them out. It’s it’s a different kind of comedy. You know.

 

Ira Madison III The funniest thing about Gloria Swanson is Sally Field’s joke in subtext.

 

Louis Virtel Which, by the way, if people have not seen some of this, please go that and come back to keep it and then. Your invite has been revoked. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Right. So getting along with our episode of Keep It, as we said, we have the fantastic Pablo Larraín here to talk to Louis and I. But Drew, we are going to get into the hot topics of the day. What are them doing, people sexiest man alive. This payola scheme is still occurring every year. So let’s talk about that. And then also the fight of the century, right? I mean, the Thrilla in Vanilla Jake Paul beat Mike Tyson said this weekend.

 

Louis Virtel And everyone cared like everyone tuned in

 

Drew Afualo Yeah for real.

 

Ira Madison III Everyone cared. I had friends who I didn’t even know were into boxing, having viewing parties or talking about who was winning when I was at a birthday party that night. So yeah, we’ll get into all of that period.

 

Drew Afualo And would you believe I watched the fight after I watched a million pros, the duality of men and I just clicked on over. I might as.

 

Louis Virtel Well. Your multitudes are disgusting. How do you have all this?

 

Drew Afualo You’re saying like, there are certain parts of me that, like, that’s the most straight guy part of my brain. And it was watching that fight. And then the rest of me, I’m like, I’m not going to your us. Like, that’s like, that’s most of me.

 

Drew Afualo Okay. Well, you know.

 

Ira Madison III Well, it was a musical, too.

 

Drew Afualo Right? That’s exactly. Right. A lot of choreography in it.

 

Ira Madison III We will be right back with more. Keep it.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III Last week, people announced John Krasinski as this year’s Sexiest Man Alive and in a World with Glenn Powell, Paul Mescal, Zendaya’s, two little white boys from Challengers in choosing a man we’ve barely thought about in five years left everyone confused. It came out and it was a quiet place for me. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. You really have a little stand up today. Okay.

 

Drew Afualo You’re worshopping some new material.

 

Ira Madison III I should have put on my comedy suspenders today.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, please. Your lady zoot suit. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like we go through this every year with people Sexiest man alive. And at this point, it feels like they want to pick someone off kilter off the beaten path because it gets them, you know, the clicks and the controversy. If it were Glen Powell, would anybody care?

 

Louis Virtel That’s interesting, though, because I feel like what usually happens is all these people turn it down. It’s just not the same institution it once was. There’s like a bit too much hubris to it now. Once upon a time, if you were like, I don’t know, Richard Gere or something, it felt like the honor was just bestowed upon you. And then it was something that, you know, your mom got to look at on a newsstand shelf, and that was nice. Now, when this is announced, it immediately goes to the Internet to be regurgitated and spit back out at you. So I feel like it’s just way less savory an accolade accolade in quotes nowadays.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, that’s so teen. That’s actually such a good point. Like now they have the power to deny it. And if and if there’s risk of them being made fun of, they’re like, Yeah, I’m good. You don’t need to know. It’s all right. Don’t put me on there. So I when you said Paul mescal, I thought for sure that that would that would make more sense to me just because he’s kind of having his moment, kind of like Pedro Pascal, like last year. It’s kind of like. You would think you would pick, like, the eight ball.

 

Ira Madison III Joe turned it down. Pedro and Glen Powell were allegedly begged to be people sexiest man alive before they were crowds.

 

Drew Afualo You know what’s funny about Glen Powell is like, I have no ill will towards him. I do feel like he’s being shoved down my throat everywhere I look. But like, I mean, who.

 

Ira Madison III Is going to shove them down my throat?

 

Louis Virtel Okay, moving on.

 

Drew Afualo I mean, literally.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, Drew was going to actually call the police. Thanks so much.

 

Drew Afualo I made the silliest jokes about Glen Powell. Like the silliest. Like they’re not they’re harmless. I mean, the silliest jokes about him. And then sometimes when I do interviews, they’re like, give me your controversial opinion, and they’ll show me a picture of Glen Powell. I’m like, I don’t have any problem with him. I just like I joked about him a couple times and now people think I hate him. I don’t I just think he’s the new like Matthew McConaughey, you know, like when Matthew McConaughey was like just in rom coms for years and everyone was like, who should we pick someone who’s like, relatable, funny, good looking people like him? Okay. You know, I feel like that’s kind of his vibe right now. More power to you. I did watch that movie with him and Sidney Sweeney, though. I mean, I feel.

 

Ira Madison III And it wouldn’t be you, anyone.

 

Drew Afualo But you. Right? And I feel like I’m owed compensation for my time spent watching it. But, you know, some people liked it. Some people liked that. Some people enjoyed it. Cool. I had fun watching it because it was so terrible. But like, I’m happy for them. They don’t, you know, happy for you if you like.

 

Louis Virtel It is a wild runaway success for a movie that is basically a bland romcom, you know what I mean? Like, they the couple of wild stunts, things happen to them otherwise. But you’re right, it does feel like the universe just agreed on Glen Powell. Like we have to see him every like for like once a quadrant now in some blockbuster, right? Like it had to be him in twisters. It had to be him and Top Gun, maverick, whatever. Right. I do like watching whenever he’s forced to do like a GQ video where he’s like, did you know that I shake ropes to get in shape or whatever he fucking does because he seems like he seems like he works really hard. So that’s nice. But it does feel like we’ve decided there’s one sexy man newer than whoever. The last person we cared about was.

 

Drew Afualo Like, I don’t even remember.

 

Louis Virtel He’s the only, like, hot person we’ve allowed into the monoculture in two years.

 

Drew Afualo Right. That’s that’s true. That is very true. Have you watched anyone but you?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, of course. Were you all shocked at how many, like, fingers up the butts there were throughout the entire movie? I was shocked. I was like, it was like a running bet. They would like she would stick her little on vanilla pizzazz to be funny. Hey, what’s going on? Hey, team. Team. What’s going on? Can someone explain that joke to me? I was shocked. I laughed every time that movie.

 

Louis Virtel It definitely had the vibe of, like, the Deadpool movies. How they’re like. They like the humor in it is always like one step further than the mainstream kind of usually goes. The types of dirtiness that’s like this little cards against humanity quotient of naughty that they’re summoning, you know, where it’s like real extra naughty to some people. But, you know, the three of us were like, Ben, there’s a finger on my ass right now.

 

Drew Afualo Moving on. Yeah, I’ll put my own finger up my ass.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I’m a fan of the director. Will Gluck’s previous film, More Than Louis is Easy. He directed. That as well. But if. But if you, you know, take easy, And you take this bell, you know, the finger up the butt humor. It is sort of the humor of a straight man who’s sort of, ha, ha, some gay things are funny. I’m thinking particularly of the joke at the end of Easy A where the gay kid runs away with the black guy.

 

Drew Afualo Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, you’re right. That’s true. And it feels a little lazy. But I. I like Isaiah a lot more than I liked anyone but you. But, I mean, I get why people like him, I guess, is my point. I understand why people are attracted to him. This is like a fun fact about me. I don’t know if I brought this up last time, but, like, I never have celebrity crushes, literally, ever. And that’s not because I think I’m better than other people. It’s truly because and I’ve said this before, like I just truly believe I could get anybody I want so I don’t have crushes.

 

Louis Virtel I see.

 

Drew Afualo I’m like, If you give me ten minutes, they’ll fall in love with me and I’ll have to be like, Sorry, I’m taken, Sorry. Sorry. I can’t do it. I’m taken.

 

Louis Virtel What a nice problem to have. Okay, great. Yeah.

 

Drew Afualo It’s delusion and it works because who’s going to prove me wrong? You know what I mean? But I feel like with the sexiest man alive thing, it’s like my opinion is kind of like. I think he should just pick who’s most popular, but it makes me laugh that they’re like, I’m good. No, thank you.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, also, the thing about John Krasinski is I feel like he’s for like 9 or 10 years, but on this tour of Did you know I go to the gym now? So it’s like it’s just like a realization I’ve had a long time ago that you’re a, you know, a handsome man. Do I think you’re even the sexiest person in that marriage? Not really, But, Well, Emily Blunt, if she got the honor, that would be something. Let’s see. Let’s see her step up and accept that.

 

Drew Afualo Right.

 

Ira Madison III Well, what’s interesting, too, is, as you know, you’re talking about like giving the giving the honor to Emily Blunt. Right? It is. We’re the we still have the sexiest man alive going on when even GQ now has oddly, like just thrown in women, too, into Man of the Year. Right? Right. Like Nicole Kidman was one of them. And I believe Kim Kardashian was one of the first. And it’s I get it. But it’s also if you’re if you’re going to be, you know, committed to the bit, then just commit to the bit, you know? Right.

 

Drew Afualo Right. But they lack the follow through. I feel that that’s why I’m like the sexiest man, like John Krasinski. It was a little strange because I just feel like, well, we haven’t heard from him in a while. You don’t know him. Yeah, okay. But maybe. Maybe that’s what it is. Like what you were saying earlier, where it used to be something that, you know, your mom would be like, you know, and maybe that’s what they’re targeting. Like, they’re like, well, the older women like her and there’s millennials like older millennials, Gen X women are super like, ooh, John Krasinski. So maybe they’re trying to revive an old audience. I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel It’s also interesting because John Krasinski is known for mastering like knowing looks to the audience. And in the pictures here, he looks under confident, like you’re not getting the signature office sardonic. Know how that you usually get from him here. And I find that to be it makes me a little crestfallen, to be honest. But but I have to say, there aren’t too many candidates springing to mind for me for like, who’s I mean, we said Glen Powell, etc.. If I had if it were my personal magazine and I think he was one of the other honorees this year, Taylor Zakhar Perez. Okay. Well, if I did sit through that movie and it was because he looked like something I draw an art one class while I’m suppressing my sexuality.

 

Drew Afualo Wait is that the guy is that the guy from. It ends with us. Is that him?

 

Louis Virtel Taylor is a hard presence in the red, white and whatever that was about. This.

 

Drew Afualo Yes, yes, yes, This is. Yes. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I can’t even remember the name of that. I’m somebody who knows the titles of things. I really.

 

Ira Madison III Like white and royal.

 

Drew Afualo Blue oil.

 

Drew Afualo But I was going to say.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s a classic. Louis, Come.

 

Louis Virtel On. I know as a as a red blooded American, I really should have had that one down. Ira, who is your choice in this domain if you had to pick for this year?

 

Ira Madison III You know, I would have picked someone like Lucien Laviscount from Emily in Paris.

 

Louis Virtel Manny Jacinto, by the way, also in this issue. Another good answer. Okay. Yeah. Drew, do you have I know you don’t like celebrities or think they’re attractive and they actually all want to fuck you in a row, but you have to pick one.

 

Drew Afualo It’s my cross to bear, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Who would you pick?

 

Drew Afualo I probably would have said like someone like Paul Mescal because I feel like he’s has like his new moment. Jonathan Bailey I think would have been a great one because he’s I think everybody likes him. Only straight and straight women are like so get tagged that he’s gay. Like, it’s actually shocking how many straight women love him. Who else? I don’t know. I always like I like picking minority people, too. So, like, maybe like someone like Charles Melton or something. Like me trying to think of, like, not white guys that women like. Like.

 

Louis Virtel I would love for him to have a renaissance really quickly. I’ve forgotten what a whole he love since May-December didn’t really turn into an Oscar Boon or anything. Yeah, well, Jonathan Bailey is interesting because I don’t believe a gay person is ever one. That’s correct. First of all. And then secondly,.

 

Ira Madison III Not not won.

 

Louis Virtel Say that again.

 

Ira Madison III Not. Not won.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Drew Afualo And then.

 

Louis Virtel But I also I enjoy his fashion choices. More often than not, he has dressed like a character in the First Wives Club almost all the time. It can be anyone from Diane to Goldie, even into SJP.

 

Drew Afualo True. So true you give him a pair of wire framed glasses and it’s good.

 

Ira Madison III He loves a tented sunglasses, too indoors. He loves a tinted sunglass.

 

Drew Afualo He does. He does. I’m like, Yeah. I don’t know. I probably would have picked someone gay, honestly. I want to pick someone that’s like everybody’s super attracted to. But wasn’t Matt Bomber the sexiest man alive once?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know that he ever want it. I mean, that’s somebody who would have been an obvious candidate. Yeah, right. And speaking of him, Jonathan Bailey, of course. And accepting some award for fellow travelers motion or thanked Matt Bomer in the audience and he said, we win this award together. And if you’ve seen fellow travelers, you know, we come together. Gross Jonathan Bailey, like he’s just his impishly. Gross Sense of humor is also so there’s no other word for impressive. Like, we don’t have people who like go there on that scale.

 

Drew Afualo Right? Seriously

 

Ira Madison III That’s also why you need more just right out gay celebrities playing like gay roles. I mean, I loved the moment, too, where he was on the wicked red carpet and signing autographs for fans and he signed a photo of himself sucking Matt Ballmer’s toes and fellow travelers. And he was so excited he held it up to the camera like he loved that he played that part, you know, because he’s actually gay. He’s not embarrassed by this role.

 

Drew Afualo I love it. I think that’s fantastic. Like, I think we should have more of that. Yeah, exactly. Give it to Jonathan Bailey. Send it from John Krasinski and give it to Jonathan Bailey.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. John Krasinski. You didn’t need this. You’ll be making those Quiet place movies forever or like those like, don’t you really Crash helicopters and war movies and stuff, too? Moving on

 

Ira Madison III Jack Ryan. Jack Ryan ended.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III No, but I’m pretty sure there’s other hot men in, like, Yellowstone or something that is getting red blooded America hot, right?

 

Drew Afualo I think you should pick someone that’s so off the mark. Like, what’s the name? What’s that guy’s name? From the George House of the Dragon.

 

Ira Madison III Yes.

 

Drew Afualo Okay. Right. Okay. The guy. The guy. The guy with the eyepatch. I forget his name. Someone who is so, like, interesting when you look at his face. Not a bad way. It’s just like he’s so interesting to look at someone like that. I think I.

 

Ira Madison III Know it when Mitchell. He plays demons on the show. Yeah, I don’t. I watch House of the Dragon, but I have to tell you, just like with Game of Thrones, I remember any of these Day on People’s Night.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Like my house of the dragon is Mommie Dearest. Okay.

 

Drew Afualo All right.

 

Louis Virtel Talk about fire breathing. Wake up.

 

Drew Afualo Right.

 

Ira Madison III The only dragon I know is this guy. All right.

 

Louis Virtel My God. He was the dragon once upon a time. It was that album called Enter the Dragon.

 

Ira Madison III It was called Into the Dragon and I believe Unleashed the Dragon as well. Unleash the.

 

Louis Virtel Dragon.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. At least the Dragon was on the album. But yeah, he had a whole dragon thing going on.

 

Drew Afualo Right.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Drew Afualo I think someone like him. I think that. I think. I think they should make us the council of who picks next time.

 

Louis Virtel All right. Yeah. I would love to be up for that, I think. I think I’ve done the work in my life.

 

Drew Afualo Right. It’d be like the Academy. How they. How they, like, pick. They just pick their favorites. That’s what we should do. We should reject and just pick who we want.

 

Louis Virtel And what you would get for me is like a bunch of conventional picks. And then also like, and Vivien Leigh, for some reason is one of the sexiest man alive winners. How did that happen?

 

Drew Afualo Just throw in a random one. Yeah, right. Shake. Shake the table a little bit. I think that’s fun.

 

Ira Madison III You know, is what I really used to care about it. It wasn’t just because I was like, gay and trying to seem straight. Like I genuinely did enjoy reading Maxim magazine. And I love the Maxim Hot 100.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I’ll say this. I kind of did dig that once upon a time because it sort of told you like, okay, who’s the woman everybody cares about? Until one year out of nowhere, the number one was Rosie Huntington-whiteley. The girl who took over for Megan Fox in the Transformers movie Baby. The movie had not come out yet. Let’s talk. Baby. I know she was not number one. She walked in there like Pia Zadora and stole that. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III This 13 year vendetta against Rosie Huntington-whiteley. Also wish you bed.

 

Louis Virtel Would love to know. Is it accounting? I have no idea.

 

Ira Madison III Wait. She’s engaged to Jason Statham.

 

Louis Virtel That’s a pretty hot couple. I do have to say.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Drew Afualo They have a baby together. I think they’ve been together for a while.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III I think there were. I think there were also articles recently about how that is one of the few age gap relationships no one really cares about because they’re so hot.

 

Drew Afualo Right. Right.

 

Ira Madison III Evenly matched.

 

Drew Afualo I didn’t even know they were that far apart in age.

 

Ira Madison III She’s she’s 30s. She’s 37 and he is 57.

 

Drew Afualo Goddamn.

 

Louis Virtel Jason Statham is 57? Holy shit.

 

Ira Madison III And still falling out of buildings.

 

Drew Afualo And so he’s one of those people that’s like he plays Jason Statham in every movie. Right. It’s like, well, he plays Jason Statham, so obviously he’s Jason Statham. Like it’s hard to see him as anybody else. Kind of like the rock, right? Like the rock plays the rock in most things. Or Jason Momoa plays Jason Momoa in most things.

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s like you’re never going to see Jason Statham and like, a Truman Capote biopic.

 

Drew Afualo No, never. And I and you know what? I have a lot of respect for actors like that who are kind of just like, Well, I’m going to play myself. Like, I have a lot of respect for people who are kind of like, I know I’m not going to win an Oscar. I’m just going to do these these movies where I play me.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah. The diesel effect, we call it. Yes.

 

Drew Afualo Right, Exactly.

 

Ira Madison III And some people like Tom Cruise plays Tom Cruise and Ethan Hunt of all these two different people. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel A gamut of emotions from A to B as Dorothy Parker. One second.

 

Drew Afualo What’s that?

 

Ira Madison III All right, we are back. Lewis and I are going to chat with Pablo Larrain about the new film Maria. I promise not to bring up the movie Salt.

 

Louis Virtel One of the nicest things you’ve ever said. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And then after that. Drew joins us again. I would describe this guess as an auteur of unconventional biopics. He has delivered one accidental trilogy on Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet’s regime. With the stunning films Tony Manero, Post Mortem. And Now And Now, he’s delivered a second accidental trilogy of history’s most iconic women, which began with the films Jackie and Spenser. Today, he’s here to discuss the final film in this trilogy. Maria So please welcome to Keep It The Man Who Delivered My Queen, Angelina Jolie, Back to the silver screen. It’s Pablo Larraín.

 

Pablo Larraín Hello, guys. Well, what an intro. Thank you.

 

Louis Virtel Man, it’s so exciting to have you here. Namely because I just watched a Q&A with you where you began by saying, We’re talking about this movie. Maria, you said I had to figure out whether or not it was even possible to make because you made a deduction I had never even thought about, which is there are no movies about opera. So I was just thinking, what can you just explain what your theory and what this chasm is between movies and opera and why they seemingly never meet onscreen other than like that time share goes to the opera and Moonstruck?

 

Pablo Larraín I don’t know. I don’t know. And every time that I’ve been with a cinephile. So this is a question for you guys to I, I just make the question and nobody has an answer. It’s incredible because obviously when you you know, if you’re going to make a movie about any subject, the first thing you do is to see what what has been done around it. And and by doing so, I just found very few. And, and I had to say that in lieu of any of them I was when we talk about movies about opera is I guess is where opera is the main theme and and likely that the character it’s it’s a singer or someone really related to and it’s just an excess that given that is so much in common between opera and cinema and it was scary at the beginning because at that.

 

Louis Virtel And there are plenty of movies that are operatic. You know, I think of like like Tilda Swinton in I Am Love, for example. These movies with heightened emotions, but like never specifically about the act itself. It is really bewildering. So I guess I have to thank you for putting an entry in the canon at all.

 

Pablo Larraín Well, we try and we try it. I think there’s some it might be a reasonable argument on on the technology used. I mean, that someone said that to me. And for the singing aspects. And the crazy thing is that we use note technology. I mean, we used to have a regular mixing process. There’s no weird air here or like or a c g on her miles or you name it. It’s nothing like that. It’s just very straightforward. And and basically we did it with a very long training process from her. And then with people like I named that one hers to a dedicated his life to, you know, to actors singing movies. But none of them have done opera before. So it was a new kind of process. But it’s really the only way to do it is is to have the actor, in this case, Angelina, to really sing it in front of us. And then we mix it as a very old school kind of mixing.

 

Ira Madison III That’s fantastic. I bet I heard you talk about her singing and that she was able to do that is a marvel. I want to ask you about making a biopic in general. I guess every time you’ve made one particular. I remember when you gave interviews about Spencer and about Jackie, you said that you don’t like conventional biopics, you know, and yet you seem to be drawn to them. But I also love how you do the one thing that biopics sort of should do is they pick an important part of a person’s story and then just tell that instead of attempting to tell someone’s entire life. So what is it about, I guess, the genre that draws you to it? And sort of what do you try to do in your films that are biopics that you think other people do poorly in biopics?

 

Pablo Larraín I think I think my my idea and my relationship to the idea of a biopic has evolved a little bit. I say this because I really think that a biopic is only a cultural fantasy. I don’t think you can actually make a movie and portray someone’s life and go out to the world and say, Look, this is who she was in this case. That’s not it’s not possible. And and and I think like the exercise that Madonna wants to do now, for example, keep thinking about it to make a biopic while she’s alive. I like to see that, you know, I don’t know. How’s that going to go? Because, you know, because there’s there’s even like, look, I in this case, in this movie, I did a very long research. I read many biographies. I’ve been listening to her music for 40 years. I saw every documentary, everything. I don’t think I know who she was. So it’s really a very particular and I do think that me and millions of people in the world can be fascinated with certain people and can be fascinated with certain events that that that were real and and can be fascinated to combine certain elements for reality as much as we can and, and create a fable out of it. You know, I think it’s it’s possible and and and look, I’ve been called by certain price or reviewers or whatever that, that I have been reverential with Maria and at I’ve heard that I read that before with whether it was Spencer or Jackie. And I’m like, yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I made the movie. I don’t have any problems to be called reverential, if that’s what you think it is. Because I do it with a lot of respect and love for the figure. But that doesn’t mean that there won’t be a huge crisis on the character, and that doesn’t mean that we’re going to put her in a big conflict. So I think it’s it’s really a combination of things that fascinated me, fascinated culture and gives you the opportunity to to, you know, to make a movie that could have a heart and could just like deal and approach somehow to who they were.

 

Louis Virtel Unfortunately, you brought up this Madonna project. So now this has spurred me to ask you the following question. If you were forced right now to make a biopic about any part of Madonna’s career, is there something that would be most fascinating to you or something that you think would make for the most kind of maybe compelling era or moment in her career?

 

Pablo Larraín If I will be forced.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And I might be the one to. I’m just saying.

 

Pablo Larraín I would. I would. I’ve never thought about it. But just to give you a quick answer, I could regret this, but I would probably focus on on the week that she realizes, she realized that her work was going to have an impact in the history of music. How do you deal with that? How do you what if when you find out that whatever you’re doing, what if you did it? It has such a universality that has changed the history of pop music, at least for sure. And how do you sleep with that? How do you deal with that?

 

Louis Virtel Do you think that follows a particular moment in her career, like getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or something?

 

Pablo Larraín No, no, no, no. I think. I think probably what she I don’t know. She did a couple of records, and at some point it might not happen from one day to another. But at some point she realized that she could, I don’t know, do a world tour and feel, you know, every single stadium on the planet if you want it. How do you deal with that? And I’d say it’s an interesting conflict. On fame and her work. I think that’s what I would focus. So it’s like, you know, universal cosmic pops figure. And I wonder. How’s that transformation? I would be interested to see that. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Sounds like virgin era. It sounds like we’re getting into the the beginning of the phenomenon here. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I love that concept of approaching a biopic that way, I guess, because I feel like that avoids, you know, sort of the tabloid splashy stuff of Madonna’s career. And I feel like you did that as well with Spencer. You know, you think you’re going to get a biopic on Diana and you’re like, okay, is that going to be the car crash? Is it going to be the marriage, etc.? And, you know, I loved that it was this setting at Christmas.

 

Pablo Larraín Well, yeah, it’s it’s I think what I think it’s very beautiful to me and interesting is to I know that people in movies talk about conflict. I like to use the word crisis. It fits better how I approach the characters. And and I think that and once you settle a very specific time and and you can put that character in a huge crisis that could eventually define who they are in a more internal way. You call it existential, internal or private, you know, you name it. But once once you have that setting, I think very interesting things could have happened. And and it always required in every case for a phenomenal actress and and someone that was really, really facing a huge challenge because and whatever is not expressed, it’s likely to be the most important thing and and that’s what they carry. And that’s that’s I think I’ve been blessed to be able to to work with such a wonderful actress. I do think that and in the case, luckily if you think about Maria, there’s something fascinating is it’s not it’s not what what Angelina only gave us to understand and to to deal with is, is what what confuses us is what she’s not expressing. And then the movie becomes very different from for for each of us. And we completely through our own biography and our own eyes and that it’s an active audience. And that’s I think what we all we are looking for, you know, to have an intelligence audience that I know they are and a sensitive audience and I know they are. And I want to, you know, have a conversation with them through the movie.

 

Louis Virtel It was interesting to me that you asked Angelina if she wanted to play Maria Callas. And then the script was written. Yes. Which to me says you knew it was going to be her from the moment you conceived of this project. And I was wondering what movie she has done previously or what is it about her that so immediately connected her to this project for you? Because honestly, she really hasn’t played something like this before and and she’s a perfect fit for it. Like the camera wants her. I want to believe she is an operatic superstar. When I look at her on this on the screen in this movie. So what was it about her?

 

Pablo Larraín Well, I think I would have referred to a specific movie. I think there. What what I what I see in the way that I approach the performance of of people of actors in general is likely to be in fragments of what they do. It’s never it’s never just a movie. It’s just like, like, like you sit there and think that you could probably think that accommodate. But, but I think more importantly is that I, I met Angelina and before in the past 2 or 3 times for other things that never you know, never became movies. And and when I did that, I, I went to her house and I just, you know, spent time with her. And and that’s where I, I start thinking that there was something I didn’t have the character yet, something related to a form of magnetism and a form of of mystery that I think she has that that I really hooked up with. And that was the thing because I, I don’t repeat it, but I really believe that there’s something that she carries that is very hard to describe. And what I think is fascinating is that when I met her, I thought I knew certain things about her because of who she is and how exposed you’ve been for a number of reasons to to the media, to all of us. But once you’re with her and you settle down and you look at her, especially in the silences and and with this, nothing really happening and it’s just just undescribable, you know. And I think Maria Callas was like that, too. And there was something that, like, I don’t know, like a marriage of the characters in my imagination when when I decided to make this movie and it was the first call I did. You write I, I just called her. And when she accepted after, you know, some conversations, I can’t sleep at night, I invited him to, to write the script. I gave him the idea, the concept awake the end of the night. And then he went on and wrote this beautiful script. But it’s really about about what they don’t say and what they carry. And and that is what I think the audience can be sucked to in the film and in a way that I think is very enigmatic. And that’s beautiful.

 

Ira Madison III I love how you described sort of doing the same to when you had Natalie in mind immediately for Jackie. And I want to know, I know that one of your favorite films is A Woman Under the Influence because of that is. And Gena Rowlands is in that. And I guess that then makes me just wonder, are there actors who you love, who, you know, might have passed, you know, before you became a filmmaker who you are sort of drawn to and you wish that you could have made a role for them.

 

Pablo Larraín Well, so many. Of course, now that I know all sorts of things about his life, I don’t know if he would have been a great choice, but. But Klaus Kinski, someone that impacted me as I grew up, an older gentleman movies. And it’s a long story that I had access to the through the Getty Institute here in Santiago in Chile. They would rent physical copies of 16 millimeter. And it was like a like a video club where you would just become a member and they would just rent you the whole print. And and for obvious reasons, they had, you know, Fritz Lang. And then there is Herzog and and Fassbinder and and so that was the my key formation and education and film. And so I guess Klaus Kinski was someone that just took me, took me, you know, for many years. And I think if there’s something that I could say about his performance, it’s something that I seek in any other actor, is that I you know, again, I think just that guy is completely undescribable. And and and and somehow it’s so unpredictable. So that is a good, good, beautiful combination, I think, for an actor. And obviously Gena Rowlands, who passed away not long ago, was someone that I really, really admire. And and I would say that the only time that I ever cried when naming an actual celebrity unknown person past with when Philip Seymour Hoffman died and I. Yeah I, I thought that the cosmos was going to give me the opportunity to work with him and it didn’t happen. And that was very, very, very sad. So yeah, some, some of them.

 

Louis Virtel Getting back to Maria, something that I feel like is gone understated about this movie and actually quite a few of your movies, namely in the biopics, is that it’s also very funny. Like I’m laughing several times at what Angelina does as Maria Callas. And then I remember like there are funny moments and Spencer, too, and like Jackie. And I guess my question is, is it important for you to have, like, humorous movie humorous moments in these movies that are otherwise crises?

 

Pablo Larraín Yeah, I think so too. Thank you for. For noticing it. I care about it. And I think you want to do it in a way that doesn’t become off of something that that takes the movie out of balance and what it is and it was proposing by the get it be some absurdity if you wanted to say I think that’s what it is. It’s a little bit absurd and and the characters might be slightly conscious of that and and they don’t they don’t acknowledge it for, for the audience we played seriously of course. But then, you know, the audience can have a half a smile and an eye when there’s a very large audience. You could hear laughs. But but it’s like, you know, the kind of thing that it’s not a full smiles and a laugh, but it’s like a half smile that that relaxes a little bit. The the, the the air, right. It clears the air, as you say a little bit. But but also thing you that knowledge is that none of us take this stuff seriously and and we go back to our duty of of making a movie and and and and being able to to have fun and such and things and and of course when there’s a a diva playing a diva, there are a number of things that quickly become funny and, and, and I think AG played really well and it was fantastic and and obviously Steve wrote it and those things are written that you can tell that it’s not a joke as is Richard but once you Western was, you go to do it, then you say you’re right. Of course he’s making fun of all of us, including me, and we’re going to accept it and embrace it.

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of another particular genre that I feel like you dabble in is Spencer was so much of a ghost story. And then I loved Alcon as well, which you see not just a vampire, but also, you know, says a lot about chili and sort of your feelings about the country. What does a horror, I guess, mean to you as a genre? Was it something that you grew up on or are you drawn to sort of these disturbing sort of terrifying stories and you find a way to incorporate them into your more human films?

 

Pablo Larraín Yeah, I I’m not very into I’m not someone that actively see horror movies. I have an enormous respect for, for for for the people who does it and who does it well. And and I never intended to do something that scary but it’s if there’s any horror element, it’s more psychological and something that hits you as you see them maybe afterwards. I think there’s there’s like horror because we are we humans can do horrible things. And and when you when you portray that and you find a drone to do that, you could eventually, you know, think, well you’re thinking that there’s there’s a horror element in it. It’s not what I’m chasing. And if it happens, I embrace it and I’m very happy and, but, but I to think that that there’s there are elements where we’re where we need to put things on boxes. Right. And that’s how we communicate to each other. Is this a comedy? Is this a drama? Is this horror or is this a general? This is this is action, whatever. And sometimes movies are a little bit of a you know, they have their spicy and they have different spices from different sources. And and I think that in the case of all gone, the the aim was to to make a black comedy of satire a farce out of this character. And obviously there are horrible, horrible things in there. And we didn’t we didn’t shy away from it.

 

Louis Virtel My last question about Angelina Jolie. I heard you say before that you just she brought a stoicism to the role that you didn’t expect her to bring, but you basically you kept it in the movie. Also, you know who she reminds me of as much as she’s an action star here in the States. She’s also got like a Liv Ullmann quality. It’s like she’s are like American born foreign actress. I can’t explain it. But anyway, it sounds like that stoicism is something I kind of associate with. Liv Ullmann Did you have a favorite moment of discovery while making the movie that Angelina brought to the screen?

 

Pablo Larraín Yeah, well, it it’s something that she brought up when I. Because what I do in what I’ve done in the in the three cases I’m in Jackie and Spencer and and a number I see that you can quickly understand that I like in my case I have all these limitations. So I wish the character and and I and I don’t mean to say this in a in a, you know, not like a woke kind of angle. I really don’t think I have all the tools to completely embrace and understand a character that is so complex like that. That is a woman that is played by a very intelligent woman in three cases. So knowing that what I what I do is that I have I have in my head what that character should be like. And then I talk to the actors I have. I’ve never rehearsed, I’ve never done it. And then once we’re in production, I try to, you know, discuss and conduct the the formation of the character up to a point that is very early and say that it’s, you know, two weeks in the production of 8 or 9 where I just just let her go. It all started like capturing what she’s doing and and in that, in the formation of the character while we were shooting, Angelina brought that sense of stoicism that she could still be fragile and vulnerable and exposed. But she would always keep the posture and the posture in the way that she behaves and talks. So it was a way to not only to protect the character, but it’s a way to understand it in the in the in the dimension that Maria Callas really was at that point in life. And I didn’t entirely expected to be completely honest, but I did embrace that. I struggle a little bit at the beginning, and Danny was, of course, we keep joking that he was like, but it was a little bit more in the physicality of of the of of the of what we were doing. Let the choreography at the scene. And I would work often way more with the other actors than her and and also what happens is that I lately I’ve been operating the camera which is quite unusual and and and there I often had the camera very close to the actors. So it becomes something that I don’t I’m never in the monitor like with headphones and so play it again. No, I never do that. I just I just see what what is going on through the you find there with one eye. I feel it because it’s very close and at some point with Angelina, it was just the way we will look at each other and we’ll just. Okay, let’s do it again. We we understood what we were doing. And I think that that sense of stoicism, it’s something that that that makes the character very beautiful because I under a very natural contrast when she is alone, that stoicism becomes invisible and that is the gate to the character. And unlike when she’s with others. So that’s how I did. I said, okay, let’s do that, play like that. And then I improvised and I include. I asked the crew to include time to shoot moments with herself along with nobody else. So that gave a different dimension of the character than I. And I think we found a beautiful balance thanks to her initiative.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you so much for this film. I mean, it’s very gorgeous. And I also couldn’t let you go without telling you how much I loved the film now, which I rewatched before we spoke, and I just forgot how much that film sort of feels just very much about every thing we’re living through in the current moment of.

 

Pablo Larraín Let’s be strong guys. I, you know, I’m a monster in the US, but I, I travel back and I, I, I don’t know and it’s just, it’s so confusing. I think we’re going through very, very confusing times and I hope it settles and things don’t go bad because it smells bad.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s exactly. Well, yeah. Yes. Also, I just want to say before we let you go, you were in a room that can only be described as Jackie Pink. Right now that color belongs to no one else.

 

Pablo Larraín But there you go. Thank you. So connected, amigo.

 

Drew Afualo All right.

 

Pablo Larraín It’s like you.

 

Louis Virtel Two.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you so much. And when we’re back, we get into the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight with Drew. On Friday, 60 million people tuned in to Netflix to watch Mike Tyson and Jake Paul face off in the ring leading up to the fight. People talked about who would win or if Mike Tyson still had it. And by had it, they meant Evander Holyfield’s ear.

 

Louis Virtel Right. We want it back.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. He should have spit it at Jake during the fight. Okay. Then maybe he would have won. Yeah.

 

Drew Afualo This time.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, so sports is the furthest thing from Lewis and I’s wheelhouse. Not all sports. I mean, but boxers, Olympic.

 

Louis Virtel Badminton, you can come right to me.

 

Ira Madison III We’re asking Drew, our resident sports expert, why people care about this and also why two of the most kind of.

 

Drew Afualo A horrible people.

 

Ira Madison III Are at the center of one of the biggest sporting events of the year.

 

Drew Afualo Right. Well, first of all, me being your sports analyst. Hilarious. I love that. I love that. Us, I think. Well, here’s what I will say. The art of boxing has been lost over years because it has increasingly become more capitalistic in its nature. Right. So a lot of the fights are rigged. A lot of them are. They’re unfairly judged. All that kind of show. Unfortunately, Jake Paul has reinvigorated boxing. Not because he’s a good person, not because he’s a great boxer. It’s literally just because he’s Jake Paul. So he gets a lot of eyes on it. He’s a master marketer, a master shit talker, like a shit starter. That’s why he has kind of like pumped a life back into boxing and has made it more interesting because I think more people have gravitated away from boxing on more towards like UFC. So he’s kind of brought attention back to boxing, which is unfortunate but true. And so all the fights he has done, he fights people in retirement pretty frequently. So it’s like, yeah, he’s going to win because a lot of times he’ll pay them a lot of money to lose or get knocked out. And if they’re old retired boxers, they’re not going to say no to a fat check. If it’s just, I like you, let me hit you and knock you out. You know what I’m saying? Obviously, I think the only one he fought, someone named Tommy Fury. I think it was something Fury. Of course it is. Boxer. So that guy, he tried to, I think, to pay off, like, hey, like let me beat you. But he’s an actual boxer who does really well, legitimately. And so he’s like, No, I’m not going to. So that’s the only loss, one of the only losses he has against a legitimate fighter this year. Why did he do it? I don’t fucking know. Mike Tyson is in his 60. So it’s just elderly abuse at that point.

 

Ira Madison III He’s 56. Ten Sha.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III He’s he’s Shah beating up on the elderly and he’s 57. But all than punches to the head. Lewis Like you have to be like 112.

 

Drew Afualo No. Really?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I don’t like to think about it. It is mind blowing. I mean, what’s in it? You’re. You’re right that once upon a time, like. Like long time ago, like in the 50s or whatever. Boxing is something that everyone talked about, like you to. Like everybody knew the name Ingemar Johanson. You know, when Muhammad Ali came on the scene, like everybody knew his personality could quote him, whatever. And it was like one of the few male sports where personalities emerged like you were familiar with, like the like the verbal stylings of everybody. And also just like, you know, how how much they were like the old style of boxing or if they were at the Great Leap forward. And Mike Tyson specifically was somebody that everybody knew and became one of the greatest video games of all time. Punch out on Nintendo. And my tie to Mike Tyson is two things. One, I’ve won, I fucking stand. Robin Givens and I stand, first of all, head of the class, which she was his model girlfriend at the time, who then has told harrowing stories of her time married to Mike Tyson, including once to Barbara Walters while she was sitting next to Mike Tyson. Isn’t it unbelievable? And she also hosted the talk show, forgive Her, Forget, which I read. I talk about routinely, which is a show where people would come on, begged to be forgiven by some member of their lives, whether it be a friend or a family member or whatever. And then they would go to a literal door and Robin would point them there, okay, go to the door, open it. And sometimes they would be standing behind the door and sometimes they wouldn’t be. And it would be so humiliating for them. Every time Me laughing as an eight year old like adults are the worst.

 

Ira Madison III Second host, by the way, she hosted her mother Louse and yes, yeah, Mother Love started off the series in 1997. And

 

Drew Afualo Look at these invisible.

 

Ira Madison III Strikes you.

 

Drew Afualo Guys have. You guys have the strength. So Mike Tyson, I remember that for us.

 

Louis Virtel And also an additional asterisk on the video game world of Mike Tyson. He inspired the street fighter character and bison, who was originally a boxer in the Japan version of the game. And then to avoid copyright problems, they changed his name to Balrog here in the States. And then and Bass then became a completely unrelated character who doesn’t look like Mike Tyson. So we can thank Mike Tyson for two of the greatest fighting games of all time. Sincerely.

 

Drew Afualo Right. Exactly. And he’s he historically has been a household name in boxing. Obviously, he’s the youngest heavyweight champion ever. So it’s he does have obviously a lot of accolades as an athlete. He is a bad person, as he has shown. I think a lot of that. Two, I’m sure has to do with CTE from the fight being especially back in the day, this whole fight as shockingly, I did watch it.

 

Ira Madison III I did, to be honest.

 

Drew Afualo Right. I thought it was real. It’s drag like that is drag moment like you guys are getting paid. And also, while I was watching it, I was telling my friend was over and my fiance, we were all watching it together and I was telling him this is the most like box stands a whole is the most grossly animalistic, like straight guys shit ever like to ever exist. Is grown men getting fired up, watching other grown men beat the shit out of each other Like that is so like, animalistic Neanderthal to me. Like the fact that they’re like, Yeah, yeah. And I’m again and again. You bitches are weird. But I appreciate the pageantry of it. It’s kind of like WWE, but to me is like, is Broadway for straight people, right? In my opinion. So that’s arts, right? Drag again. Drag. And so I feel like there was a fight right before the main fight, which was two women that fight. It was like Katie Taylor and Amanda. I forget her last name, but that fight was nuts. Fight was crazy. I really enjoyed that one because it’s like two actual boxers who are actual athletes and they’re fighting for real. And I’m just like, This is the main fight. Like, this should have been the real fight because the other one, there’s a lot of pageantry. Like, did you all watch Jake Paul’s entrance that.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, yes.

 

Drew Afualo 45 minutes, by the way.

 

Louis Virtel So he’s like fully color walking in the of arena. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Two in the air tonight which I did appreciate the troll right using the Phil Collins song because Mike Tyson of course popularized that song right. When he sang it in The Hangover.

 

Drew Afualo Right.

 

Ira Madison III But did anyone notice when he and his brother Logan were coming in and saying, you know, everyone does the drum part and in the air tonight, they completely missed the drums. They were off.

 

Louis Virtel What the fuck is that?

 

Drew Afualo No rhythm from two awful white guys. It does seem like. Like. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III So on the what was the last thing I want to say about Mike Tyson, though, is if you have not read his interview in Interview magazine with Rosie Perez. You need to read this interview because it is one of the wildest things I have ever seen in my life. Just two two quotes from it. She asks him, you know, about, you know, being remembered, you know, about like how things are going to affect his legacy, like how this fight is going to be. You know, because Tyson says he has more fans in the champions, He has more fans than everybody but me. And Perez says, how do you think it’s going to affect your legacy? What do I care about my legacy? I never knew what a legacy was, and people started throwing that word around so loosely. A legacy says like ego to me, I’m going to be dead soon. Who cares what somebody is going to think about me when I’m dead? We don’t talk about Charles Manson. We don’t. No one cares about nobody when they’re dead and gone. And Rosie Perez says, weird comparison, but I’ll take it.

 

Louis Virtel Also, why him? Yeah, that is very, very strange. She. He also gave an interview to, like, a little girl where he said the same thing. He goes, Legacy just means ego. I’m just going to be dead. And I don’t know how that child was supposed to receive that news, but I think it hit her like a fan.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. Real, real power moment in her development.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Also, while this quote is at the end where he thanked her for the interview and says, I won’t let you down, and she says, I know you want we both made it out because, you know, they both made it out of their respective places that they were born. And that’s how they’ve known each other for years. And Mike Tyson says, hey, life isn’t over yet. We’re still fighting. We only make it out on the day of our death. There’s no way I should be here talking to you right now. All my friends are dead. They did. They had Aids. Me and my friends both had sex with this girl at the same time. And they both died of Aids. Not me. I didn’t catch a I didn’t catch Aids. Raw two a Rosie Perez says that’s crazy. You have a spirit hovering over you.

 

Drew Afualo That’s what scares me. We can. Let’s rewind. Can. Can I. Can I on around for a second? Like, what are you talking about? And you know what’s funny is my fiance, he told me he asked me, have you seen any of the interviews he’s done this week before? We watched the fight. And he’s like, he has this, like, kind of ominous, like, nihilistic attitude. So that would freak me out if I was going to fight him because, like, there’s nothing more dangerous than a man like that with nothing to lose. Like, you know what I’m saying? Like, that would have freaked me out if I was fighting him just because he’s like, Well, we’re going to be dead, so.

 

Louis Virtel Right. But that also could mean he, like, kind of takes a dive easily, you know what I mean? So one way or the other, you know.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, but that’s. You’re right.

 

Louis Virtel It made him more of a wild card than he even was previously. I do have to.

 

Drew Afualo Say, that’s probably Exactly. And I was like, I don’t know if you’re just trying to keep people on their toes or if you just, like, genuinely feel that way. Like, how did you work Aids into the conversation about legacy?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It seems like the only thing that really paid off with this whole thing was the. The way in where, like, they got in each other’s faces, which I feel like is half the. Half the fun of boxing to people is just like we are dropping total dragged costuming, whatever. Yeah. Where he literally slaps the poor person. I literally forget which one it is. Is it Jake Logan? Zeppo. Chico. Groucho. Which one is that?

 

Drew Afualo Right.

 

Louis Virtel And that I sort of do think is a little bit amusing. Also just slapping in general, if we could get in like a more formal sport. And I know that there is a version of this that exists. I think that is funny.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, the big slap. You want to know something funny about that slapping competition thing that is held in Vegas? The only reason I know what that it’s called The slap or something. And it’s because they have invited me to come watch, too. Which I’m like me like, I’m okay. I’m happy for you, though. Like they go found a sport you love.

 

Louis Virtel But Drew, I have bad news for you as our sports correspondent. I do think you have to go. I think you have a lot to learn through you about.

 

Drew Afualo That’s true. We have to go. We have to cover the sports that no one’s willing to talk about, like slapping.

 

Ira Madison III The only slot we’ve seen is the Zachary Quinto Show.

 

Louis Virtel Was he on that?

 

Ira Madison III Yes, he was, baby.

 

Louis Virtel I just know the concept of that show.

 

Drew Afualo Yes. Okay. I have no concept of that show. Yeah, that’s like that one in Will Smith slapping Chris Rock at the Oscars.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Drew Afualo That could contend for a best slap, too.

 

Louis Virtel I salute you, God. Of course. And of course, the entire world of Dynasty and Drag Race. There’s a lot there’s a lot to consider here. We’ll get that together one year.

 

Drew Afualo Right? Yeah. I think the way in thing and him slapping houses based on what was nice that was that was enjoyable to watch him hitting him. Sure. I feel like it ended exactly the way I thought it was, honestly quite boring. Like the fight itself. I thought it was very like, well, yeah, he’s a senior citizen and you’re hitting him. So. And honestly, it was more so I think he just got tired, like because again, he’s a senior citizen, so his salmon is not quite what it used to be.

 

Louis Virtel I also think like. People took this seriously in the way it’s like if they took seriously when Andy Kaufman used to challenge women to wrestling matches. I don’t know if you remember this, but like Andy Kaufman, the famous comedian from the 70s on Taxi into the 80s and then died quite young. He would do these.

 

Ira Madison III Like he’s still.

 

Louis Virtel Alive. He’s very among people who are still alive in Mexico. I think Andy Kaufman is way above Tupac IV, feels very stunt oriented. He would like body slam women in rings and then they call them all week and stuff. It was it was all like a trolling exercise or whatever that people really upset. I wish I had just accepted it on that level.

 

Drew Afualo I agree. You know, if you look at the people they picked to like host the fight itself like two commentator It felt like a real random, like spinning wheel. And they’re like, Yeah, let’s see what they’re up to. Let’s ask them if they want to come. Like, it’s so sad. Well, when they were showing celebrities in the crowd, I’m like. What? What are they doing there? Like, what are you doing? They’re like, you know, this isn’t something that I would like ever move my schedule around to attend in person. So it was kind of shocking to see people there where I was like, I hope they’re getting paid to be there because otherwise this is strange. And I think anything straight men inherently love, I hate. So that’s probably why it works because anything statement or like, yeah, I’m like, it’s probably.

 

Louis Virtel Awful. No.

 

Drew Afualo We think it’s probably yeah, that’s what gives me a real sinister energy, I feel like. And also Jake Paul, this is unrelated to the fight. Balding. Horribly. Someone should check on that. He’s made a lot of money out of the fight. Go get hair plugs, queen.

 

Louis Virtel He really does feel like a Jersey Shore cast member who was thrown in the slammer for like four years and now has returned to both party and irritate.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. I mean. People obviously know he’s a terrible person, but people often forget, like, what? A little dorky little white YouTuber kid he was for ever. That’s how I know him. So watching him try to like big body, someone like Mike Tyson, just an energy. Yeah, I’m not buying into it. Sorry, King. I know who you really are. You know, I mean, like.

 

Ira Madison III I think we can all agree that, you know, boxing lost its luster when Celebrity Deathmatch went off.

 

Louis Virtel Your lips to God’s ears when we used to have Jewel and L.A. Morissette face off, and then L.A. would be barefoot or no, Jewel would be barefoot. I forgot one of them was deemed too earthy to exist. I forget.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But, you know Gen-z would not like pitting celebrity women against each other the way I used to watch that happen on MTV. Okay. But I would watch Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo. Celebrity Deathmatch. Play bass and fight. Come on.

 

Drew Afualo Right. I’ve been Wojo. I’ve been offered to, like, Celebrity Box, and that’s very loose because I’m not a celebrity. Boxing mentioned another influencer before, which is, like. No way. When I got. The. No, I’m not doing that.

 

Louis Virtel It’s an extremely advanced skill set. It’s not something you can do on the fly.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, right, exactly. Well, and also, like, I don’t want to do that. I don’t I don’t want to get in a ring and like my cronies in my bra and be like, fight like, you know what I’m saying? Like, I. I’m almost 30, so I’m good. No, I’m okay. Thank you, though.

 

Ira Madison III You should try to talk to a girl, though.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, I’m watching out for Jake Paul. I was like, there are people that I would be like, Celebrity boxing match. And they’re not people like Mike Tyson. You know what I’m saying? Like, there are other people that I would do that to. Like. One time on an interview, I said I would fight Ronald Reagan. Like if Ronald Reagan was alive, I would get in the cage with that bitch easily. Bare knuckle boxing guy. You know.

 

Louis Virtel I have bad news for you. Nancy’s going to jump right over his shoulders and kick you.

 

Drew Afualo Because if I bother them, yeah, I’ll fight. But both of them are. So if I don’t.

 

Louis Virtel I’m telling you, she’s going to throw the chain. I like ninja stars. And you will be. You will be decapitated. I’m worried.

 

Drew Afualo Right? And then they’re going to arrest me. They’re going to call the cops on me.

 

Ira Madison III They call the Rock Hudson. Okay. They’ll kill you anyway.

 

Drew Afualo My God. Wait.

 

Ira Madison III We’re back. Our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It There. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Cupid. Louis?

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III What are you mad at this week?

 

Louis Virtel I am going to say keep it a reluctant keep it as have a few might bend recently to the Gwen Stefani album book, which is Let me say something. When you’re in your mid-fifties and making music, go hard on adult contemporary, please. This entire album is themed around flowers. Every song is about flowers in a certain way, or like if not, then words like pretty are thrown around so that it’s also still kind of flowery. All right. That is so Dawkins dying. So I’m, you know, I’m slowing down in my life and just want to slow down and smell the flowers. Okay, great. It feels like something. Exactly Kathie Lee Gifford would have given us in 2000. But the lead single on this album, Some. But he Alyssa’s great song for her. I don’t know if you know the song yet, IRA, but it’s sort of like if Gwen Stefani just delivered a full Avril Lavigne song, and those energies, I think, coalesced pretty well, actually. They’re sort of similar. She’s she is a little bit like if Avril Levine acted like a Marilyn Monroe themed phone sex operator. That is what Gwen Stefani to me is altogether. And she delivers that on that song. Great pop hook. Otherwise, though, the thing that really makes this a keep it for me is that the lyrics of these songs are just too bad. For instance, on this song Pretty by Gwen Stefani. The chorus is I Never Felt Pretty Until You Love Me. I always felt pretty, pretty, pretty unlucky. I never felt pretty until you love me. And now I feel pretty, pretty, pretty lucky. You can hear that. That’s unacceptable. You can hear that. That doesn’t belong in a song that we humans, people listen to. I will say about this album, this is not actually a diss. As IRA and I both praise this album. It’s kind of her one for three and that it’s all about the sincerity. The like I’m settling down with a nice man, Blake Shelton, who looks like he belongs in a dog food commercial. That’s just what he does. But it’s like nice sentiments. And she does give that kind of like pop balladeer angst. I think she’s always been good at the mix songs like Cool Really Good or Four in the Morning or even, you know, Don’t Speak, Don’t Speak is like a great song because she brings that balladeer angst to it. So you get some good moments from her on that front here. But otherwise the songwriting is just not good enough.

 

Drew Afualo K. T. Okay. I think. I think I’m ready for mine.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Drew Afualo Okay. Okay. I’m going to hurt you. It’s not going to be nearly as strong, I don’t think. I think unless I’m going to watch a man get the shit kicked out of him. Keep it. I don’t want to hear about it. I don’t care. I don’t care to know. I don’t care to learn. And I don’t care any ago. So I think celebrity boxing match in general. Let’s keep that away for yet.

 

Louis Virtel It does feel very 2000s to like once upon a time like turn on the TV and look who’s fighting today. It’s Tonya Harding.

 

Drew Afualo And that I would watch. So that’s different. But I think lady.

 

Louis Virtel Boxing is acceptable. It’s the male boxing where it gets a little dicey, I think.

 

Drew Afualo Well, specifically men. Men. I will say this like men who are inherently awful start in the world of celebrity as influencers transitioning to becoming an athlete specifically. Keep it even. I don’t want to hear it. I don’t. And if you do, do it. Don’t tell me about it. I don’t want to hear about it.

 

Louis Virtel But I do have to say I’m thankful that the world of the Pauls like they exist. I mean, I guess they do count as mono cultural celebrities in a way, but I still don’t feel really obligated to know anything about them. There is like a chasm between them and like, I don’t know, legit talents, for example. So I like, I, I sort of think like, I feel like this is as high as he can possibly rise in terms of sheer visibility. That said, I am worried he will become president of the United States.

 

Drew Afualo And, you know, at this point, it’s a viable option. And that’s upsetting.

 

Louis Virtel Right. He may be more centrist, actually.

 

Ira Madison III So I’m more actually, Yeah. I could see them both being president, our first joint president of the United States.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, one does like Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. Thursday. Well, there’s that in the Constitution.

 

Ira Madison III Could two people run at the same time for the same position?

 

Louis Virtel That sounds like the foundation of a rom com I would watch. It says here that Sandra and whomever can do it at the same time.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. Red, white and royal blue. Yeah. There you go.

 

Louis Virtel Even royal error.

 

Ira Madison III Imagine them changing it for them so they can run. But then Donald Trump is still alive is like 101. And he’s like, I’m running with one of you.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. He’s going to have someone bring a Ouija board into the Oval Office and call him back from the underworld. And then he’s going to come back as a spirit.

 

Louis Virtel Her name is Armageddon. Yeah.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t trust the barricades. I would buy that. They would elect Trump’s ghost.

 

Drew Afualo I mean, to please at this point, especially.

 

Louis Virtel IRA, what is your keep at this point?

 

Ira Madison III My keep it this week is ghost to anyone who is not currently listening to the new album from Flo.

 

Louis Virtel You have to explain what this is, so you have to explain what’s not Nightingale or Poe.

 

Ira Madison III No, no. They do not care about acting and they do not care about saving lives. But they’ve saved mine. They saved my. This is an R&B girl group in the vein of Dusty’s child and Evie the sugar Babes. They’re British. The album’s produced by Ebony K, a fantastic musician and producer, and the. Their debut just came out. You know, you might have heard the single cardboard box out of.

 

Drew Afualo The background cardboard box. I that’s how I found them was cardboard box a couple of years ago. Love that.

 

Ira Madison III So their debut album, Access All Areas, came out this weekend and it is fantastic. It’s great. R&B music is great. Girl group music. They can all sing live. Mind you, because they’ve done a bunch of the Vivo live performances of their songs previously and they sound great. The harmonies are on point. The dancing is on point. They’ve even shown videos of them rehearsing while working out in the Mathew Knowles van.

 

Louis Virtel I see. Is there a song in the girl group canon that most reminds you of them that will perhaps entice me to listen to flow?

 

Ira Madison III You know what the vibe is very destiny fulfilled. It’s very. It’s very girl. It’s very girl vibe. You know.

 

Louis Virtel The song.

 

Ira Madison III Girl? Very Girl T-shirt. It’s very like slinky, sexy R&B.

 

Louis Virtel I have come to realize that my favorite Destiny’s Child single is soldier. I think it’s a new Remains their horniest song. They literally said, Can you be in the military and hang? Thank you. We’re clocking out. Thank you.

 

Drew Afualo Really? That’s really it. That’s all I’m looking for.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t think those were the kind of soldiers they were talking about. Laura. Yes.

 

Drew Afualo And tell me if I’m wrong.

 

Louis Virtel Jay-Z, not a military man. So it didn’t really work.

 

Ira Madison III You’ve heard a sister soldier. I think they were looking for a brother soldier.

 

Drew Afualo Yeah. Right.

 

Ira Madison III The coldest winter ever. They were trying to get warm right then.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, well, I will listen to Flo literally as I leave the studio. So I will report back next week on what I think of whatever IRA considers tasteful. We’ll see how it goes.

 

Drew Afualo I love Flo. I cosign the flow.

 

Louis Virtel All right. All right.

 

Ira Madison III Argument there. Fantastic. Soft and Nocturnal are two of the best songs on the album. And also their song Caught Up, which was a single interpolating Cole Porter’s Night and day.

 

Louis Virtel What the fuck? Louis just woke up.

 

Drew Afualo First of all.

 

Louis Virtel A find Cary Grant movie. Second of all, if you haven’t seen The Lovely with Calvin Klein underrated Calvin Klein performance and Alanis Morissette performance of Let’s Do It, Let’s Fall In Love by Cole Porter. Wow. That is very cool.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, you know, a great album. So go on, listen to it, and we’ll talk about it next week.

 

Louis Virtel Very good. Very good. Drew. Thank you for being radiant. You were a radiant addition to the podcast and you will be back here again. I don’t mean to sentence you to anything you don’t want to do, but you will be summoned.

 

Drew Afualo Don’t threaten me with a good time. I’ll be here. I love. I love gabbing with the girls. I love it. Thank you so much for having me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And thank you to Pablo Larrain for joining us. This is Keep It. We’ll see you in two weeks because next week is Thanksgiving and I’ve.

 

Louis Virtel Got a tryptophan haze to be living under. Read more. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel You can also subscribe to keep it on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Chris Lord and Kennedy Hill. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, Louis Virtel and Kendra James.

 

Louis Virtel Our digital team is Megan Patsel, Claudia Shang and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.