In This Episode
This week, Louis Virtel is joined by comic Jay Jurden to discuss Paul Thomas Anderson’s One Battle After Another, new albums from Mariah Carey and Doja Cat, Nicki Minaj’s Twitter rampage, Nicole Kidman’s break-up, and the Riyadh comedy festival. Gillian Anderson also joins Louis to discuss Tron Ares, The X-Files, and A Streetcar Named Desire.
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TRANSCRIPT
Louis Virtel [AD]
Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. And where the hell are we? I’m Louis Virtel, I’ll explain. I’m in Brooklyn this week with the show Jimmy Kimmel Live, which is still on the air due to get this rights. But we’re here now. I’m recording this week with our special guest who’s been on the show before.
Jay Jurden Never with me. Never. Is it personal? No, I think whenever you had something to do, I would filling for you.
Louis Virtel Right, they actually kind of thought it would be too much to have the both of us. It could only be one or the other. It’s Jay Jurden, the fabulous comedian.
Jay Jurden Thank you for having me. Hello, Keep It fam once again. Yeah, thank you for have me, Louis.
Louis Virtel I also want to say you weren’t positive you’d be on camera and yet you look like the slickest member of West Side Story.
Jay Jurden Listen, and once again, as a shark, as a sharp, not a jet, I didn’t know I was going to be fully on camera. So the pants, they might’ve not been as cute, but you know, I had a little time.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Jay Jurden Yeah, I gave you the full look. You’re welcome.
Louis Virtel Yes, thank you, thank, no, we try to do full glamor here, except no one even cares. I’m happy.
Jay Jurden I’m happy that you’re here in Brooklyn with the TV show that is still on the air. I am dazzled to be employed. How’s…
Louis Virtel How’s the past two weeks or week been for you? Well, my takeaway is the first five hours, we didn’t have a show, it felt crazy. And then afterwards, the blowback was so intense. I’m like, I know how this works. We’re going to get back on the air. So everybody else got to be like astounded and like really root for the Rudy comeback story of our show. But I saw the ending, you know, halfway through. I was Roger Ebert about it. I’ve seen this movie before.
Jay Jurden I was amazed that certain people didn’t speak out instantly. Oh, yeah. I was one of the comics in New York who was like, this is bullshit. And instantly was like please, everyone say something, anyone. And there were people who waited a week. I believe Joe Rogan said he was on an elk hunting trip. And that’s why he didn’t, he didn’s speak out, which I was talking to Rosebud Baker. She was like that sounds like a joke you would submit about Joe Rogan. That he was… Yeah, right. On this elk hunting tripping. He didn’t have any service and he didn’t know this had happened.
Louis Virtel How long does it take to find an elk? Yeah, they’re big. Like is that a six day thing? Like they don’t strike me as the fastest of the animals.
Jay Jurden No, they’re a huge deer, but I don’t know why he was so kind of like, I don’t know why you waited so long to say.
Louis Virtel It did take a while, that was kind of surprising. Now, you are a comic and yet you are not in the city of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia right now. How do you feel about that?
Jay Jurden From one loud queer to another, I’m good, I am good. Being a loud gay will really keep you out of places that don’t like loud gays, except for one comic on the lineup. I think there is, and Wayne Brady’s going…
Louis Virtel I was just gonna bring up Wayne Brady as a part of it and I believe he’s pansexual.
Jay Jurden Yeah, yeah, he’s pansexual.
Louis Virtel If you don’t know, Riyadh Saudi Arabia is throwing this high octane comedy festival, they’re paying American comics more money than they’ve ever paid for any other single gig, certainly. And I’m sure lots of people have been offered who like cautiously turned it down, but a lot of people didn’t turn it down. And as you know, Saudi Arabia is shall we say not like here. So it’s a curious gig to take.
Jay Jurden Well, no, they are like here last week when you didn’t have a show. Ah, yes. They are like, here. I think that if you’re a comic who accepted performing at this festival and for the print specifically, let other comics give you a little shit. Let other comics make fun of you. You will be a bigger and better person for it. I’ve already seen, Stavros made fun of, I want to say Krista Stefano, Mark Norman, and Sam Morel to their face in person. And that’s what’s going to happen. If you accepted the Saudi money, we are going to make fun of you. I don’t know if it’s going to destroy some friendships, might destroy some hands, but we are gonna make fun of you people are going to laugh at you for a little bit. And just take those lumps. You’re walking away with, I don’t know, an extra 200 to $500,000. Take your friends making fun of.
Louis Virtel Now, here’s my whole problem with the situation. The indecent proposal aspect of it actually doesn’t really interest me. Like I’m like, okay, some people are going to be dubious, some people won’t be, fine. My question is, what is the comedy you do for a Riyadh audience? Because I’m just saying, I’m thinking, if I’m a standup, relatability is kind of a key part of like conveying humor. And I can’t think of a single meeting point we have, pop culturally, day-to-day activities wise.
Jay Jurden I think there’s a, I think, there’s some crossover. I think it’s some, I think I have some crossover when it comes to mass appeal pop culture. There’s a whole push for having more entertainment in Riyadh, WWE, more football matches, more boxing matches. So there is a push to make it seem like this is a new destination spot for kind of like top line, high level entertainment. The problem with comedy is that it does come with all these rules. With the WWE, WWE female entertainers, the female wrestlers, they can’t wear their traditional in-ring gear because of modesty rules there. So they have like these specific outfits they have to wear when they do a show in Saudi Arabia. And I think comics are also, there, Atsuko posted a list of rules and kind of no-gos that they aren’t allowed to do if they want to get paid. And I guess if they wanna leave with their passports.
Louis Virtel Atsuko, I believe turned it down, correct? But I’m sure she thought it was like a formidable amount of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jay Jurden She made sure to redact the amount of money that was in the offer on the contract. And that’s, I think that’s another part of it. Sometimes I think they are throwing this huge, kind of backing up the Brinks truck for people. But I don’t know if that’s the case for everyone. I know Tim Dillon, he had an offer and then it was rescinded because I think maybe he said some stuff about the Saudi government. Who knows? No, he has.
Louis Virtel But like, if I dropped you off in Riyadh right now, could you do five minutes and just crush it?
Jay Jurden Oh yeah, I have a lot of material about slavery.
Louis Virtel You just start with that.
Jay Jurden Yeah, yeah.
Louis Virtel Wow, okay, going right for the jugular. Yeah. No, and I thought Wayne Brady was the only queer person on the lineup, is that right?
Jay Jurden No, Jess Kirsten is also a queer, she’s a lesbian. Oh, yes, okay. Yeah, and you know.
Louis Virtel The idea that they went for diversity is amazing.
Jay Jurden I know that I was not offered, let me just go in regular and say it did not come my way. I don’t know if I would have gone. I do not think I would’ve said yes. There’s a fear there for me.
Louis Virtel Certainly, no, there’s great unknowns. I mean, I don’t know what the accommodations are, who you run into, whatever, I completely concur.
Jay Jurden Yeah, yeah, also, hey, guess what? You can smoke hookah here. I don’t know if you’ve been to Harlem, I don’t know if been to the Bronx. Eric Adams is smoking hookah right now.
Louis Virtel That’s what you’re concerned about? The hookah quotient of Saudi Arabia? Okay, we have a stacked episode here in Brooklyn today. First of all, we’re gonna be talking about the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie, One Battle After Another. I believe this is his 10th movie. At this point, he’s the kind of filmmaker where you have to rank all of his movies. It’s like, what your favorite is says a lot about you, and so we’ll do that, Jay and I, we’ve both seen the movie. And it starts, I call it the Tiana Taylor movie. I guess there are other actors in it.
Jay Jurden Okay, I call it the Sean Penn movie.
Louis Virtel Oh, okay, oh you do. Sean Penn. Now he’s an up-and-comer. I remember him from the film Shanghai Surprise.
Jay Jurden Sean Penn, I think the physicality that he sort of makes sure comes across in the character, oh my gosh, from the beginning, there’s a stance both with his legs and with his jaw, where the military character, Lockjaw, that he’s kind of portraying in this film. From the first scene I see him in, I’m like, this is gonna be a good performance from him. So I was really impressed. I was impressed with Tiana Taylor, but I was blown away by Sean Penn.
Louis Virtel Yeah, we’ll get into the Sean Penn of it all. And I just want to say before we move on, his jaw structure, we have that upcoming Bruce Springsteen biopic, huge for those of us in the underbite community, huge. We’ll get to that momentarily. Also, my interview today, which was recorded back in Los Angeles, is with, hold on to both arms of your chair, Gillian Anderson. She’s in the new movie, Tron Aries. Is your mind not blown? Oh my.
Jay Jurden Lesbians, get ready.
Louis Virtel Right. And also, she’s more soft spoken than ever. So lean in to the AirPods this time when you’re listening. And then we’ll also get into the new album from Mariah Carey. Oh my God, it feels so good to say that. Yes. So psyched. And also the new Album from Doja Cat. A lot of people claim to be 80s inspired. This queen fucking did it. So we’ll talk about that too. But other than that, that’s our episode and we’ll be back with more keeping. Paul Thomas Anderson’s new film, One Battle After Another is here. Let me just go through the cast first of all. It’s Leonardo DiCaprio, Sean Penn, Tiana Taylor, Regina Hall, Chase Infinity. And I want to say about Sean Penn. And this is just the copy I have to read. Might have the worst case of jungle fever we’ve ever seen. My producer put that in the feed for me, Louis, to read it. Anyway, Jay and I both saw. With me as a guest. Yes, right. Jay’s over here. Jay and both saw the movie this weekend. It’s time to get into it. Jay, what are your initial reactions to One Battle After.
Jay Jurden My initial reaction is, wow. So heavy handed on the nose, as far as like the time we’re living in right now. And still a good movie. Still a good move. Very, there’s a part of me that was watching it and I went. It’s just not going to be what I think it is. And it was, truly. But it still was a good movie. With a couple of really fun twists. And I was truly impressed by so many people in the cast.
Louis Virtel I kind of thought at this point, I would be a little bit sick of Leonardo DiCaprio sort of being like a bumbling Fargo type criminal. Like, you know, stuck in chase sequences, like dog, like stupider than he should be, et cetera. He was hilarious at times during this movie. And I kind forgot he was capable of that. My all time favorite Leonardo Di Caprio performance is Django Unchained. Okay, yes. Where it’s like, because he’s a little like Tom Cruise to me, where it’s, I would prefer you just to be full delirious.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel You know, full creepy. You know like, that’s like, to me, like the height of his powers in a way. But in this movie, I was shocked at the comic. And you saw some of that, of course, in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. But at the same time, that was the most surprising part of this movie to me how funny it ended up being.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel But this movie starts out, and it’s about Leonardo DiCaprio and Tiana Taylor are this activist. Revolutionary. Yeah, revolutionary couple, who then are quickly on the run. If you’ve ever seen the movie Running on Empty from the 80s, I believe they were, Paul Thomas Anderson was slightly inspired by that movie too. Anyway, Tiana tailor, who is unbelievable in this movie, gets caught quite early. And she is basically cast away from the movie. And years later, Leonardo DiCaprio and his daughter,
Jay Jurden Played by Chase Infinity, who is great in this movie.
Louis Virtel Yes, and by the way, I mean, like everybody else in this movie has 175 credits. So for her to stack up against these people was really shocking. But I will say about this movie, it starts out and you kind of think it’s gonna be more about the politics involved with being a revolutionary. And as the movie goes on, it is just a thriller.
Jay Jurden It’s just a thriller, but like you said, tons of comedy. There are I think two or three slapstick moments in the movie that are just pure pratfalls. And it’s kind of funny.
Louis Virtel No, real like Ruth Buzzi stuff. Yeah.
Jay Jurden Like falling down. And a theater full of people laughing at that. You do look around and go, oh yeah, this is a great movie. This is a good movie going experience.
Louis Virtel Which by the way, it’s a two hour and 40 minute movie. And I was just preaching recently about the fact that a movie can be a hundred minutes long or 90 minutes long and still be too long. This fills every single moment. It almost is like a David Lynch movie and how little time is wasted.
Jay Jurden Yeah, it does not feel long. It feels like there’s always a threat. As a thriller, as a sort of like movie that moves with you, you’re never bored, which is beautiful. And I think when you think about like a story like this, specifically on the run, who’s gonna, are they gonna get caught? Who’s gonna get called? Are you gonna be able to like save the girl? Sometimes those, they have these like weird moments in between where you go away from that action and you go, hey, no, no get back to saving this girl. They never do it.
Louis Virtel As you said, Sean Penn in this movie plays this sort of villain character who also, I don’t wanna give away the movie to anybody who doesn’t wanna see it.
Jay Jurden But no, he plays this military, this evil military guy who’s in the pursuit of both Leo and Leo’s daughter because of his infatuation and kind of like obsession with black women, I think is the easiest way to kind of put it. And he does a very good job of making this character both stupid, evil, and a little funny.
Louis Virtel Yes, I think the combination is, he does feel like a hardened military veteran for real sometimes. And then also he feels like Fire Marshal Bill from In Living Color. You know, just that kind of like, the neck is always a little jolted, he’s a little extra stiff, like walking like an actual GI Joe. And by the way, Sean Penn in this movie has never been more ripped in his entire life.
Jay Jurden Is it CGI? What’s happening? Never takes his shirt off. No, you know this, and I also know this just based on Visits to the Pines. There is a level of ripped that happens with older gay men where because the collagen is gone, the vascularity really comes to the front of the arms. So he’s ripped, but he’s older man ripped. Just truly, he looks like he could be like in a Centrum Silver commercial.
Louis Virtel Oh, precisely. Or I’m sorry, what’s the show on Nickelodeon where it was like not claymation, but action figures who were ripped? The Action League Now segment of the show Kablam, always the last block of SNCC if you were brave enough to stay up late.
Jay Jurden I had the little scuba figurine. That was a real GI Joe figurine they were able to use somehow.
Louis Virtel Right, it was like if the toys at Sid’s house and Toy Story got their own show.
Jay Jurden And they made them French, correct? Yes. Yes, God, they served us some fucked up shit. Then they were like, just have fun kids.
Louis Virtel What the hell was that? Anyway.
Jay Jurden Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and not for nothing, I think there are two moments in this movie. First, it’s Jungle Pussy in the Jungle Pussie line in the movie that some people online like don’t understand. I just thought it was very funny. It turns out the actress has a rap alter ego called Jungle Pussey, which was very fun. But the entire movie is about it’s about race. It’s about the military. It’s a about a racial reckoning and a revolution. It’s also said in an America that’s not this America, but is this America.
Louis Virtel Well, also, it almost feels like a movie like Marathon Man to me where it is kind of going from one set piece to the next, like, oh, here comes the big scene on the road. Here comes this big explosion in this place. But unlike a lot of those movies where it just seems like they’re setting up a giant explosion, what connects them is equally as fascinating. And I can’t say I’ve seen many movies where that is the case. Now, if I have to name a flaw of the film.
Jay Jurden Name a flaw.
Louis Virtel I do think the movie is begging for more Tiana Taylor. Yes. There’s something about her. And it’s her. It begins with her resting expression. But I mean, like, I, you know, a layman would just call it a don’t fuck with me face.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel But there’s just something like she’s so immovable that you can only lean into it. And it’s almost like you’re craving vulnerability from her.
Jay Jurden You want to see a break. You want see some sort of, like, tell from this kind of forever bad bitch. And it is, to me, it is also, like if you know anything about Tiana Taylor, to go from My Sweet 16 to this, that is an arc. That is, I want to her act more. And she’s stunning, but she’s scary. She’s sweet, but he’s so toxic.
Louis Virtel Did you see the movie 1001 she did? No, I haven’t. You will not believe this performance. The second she’s on the screen, it’s like, oh, an Oscar someday. If not for this, then someday. The movie is staggering. And she brings the, also, when this movie begins, her relationship with Leo is not only are they these relentless revolutionaries, they are also hyper sexualized.
Jay Jurden Like they start.
Louis Virtel Like they start like humping in the middle of like a big gambit, a big move. So it sort of sets up the hybrid of comedy and thriller you’re going to get throughout. But at the same time, I kind of thought the movie was teasing a little bit more intense of a character inspection than we got. It kind of ended up just being like a bunch of pawns racing around each other in a cool way.
Jay Jurden I think if we would have got one moment later in the film about what she is going through or what it’s like to kind of have to leave all of this and be in Mexico wherever she is after she leaves, I think that would have helped us. Sometimes you just get one scene with the character who made it out and they’re kind of solemn and they understand they gave up a lot to be able to have this freedom. I think we sort of get that when we see her leaving, but just to have like one of those moments, maybe after. And spoiler alert, the letter at the end, that would have kind of given you that moment.
Louis Virtel Yeah, right. But in a way, I guess I’m proud of the movie for defying the expectation that she would come back. Because another thing they set up that doesn’t pay off in an interesting way is Chase Infinity doing martial arts.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel And then you think, oh, well, later in the movie, she’s obviously gonna break somebody in half.
Jay Jurden It does have two very, very specific scenes where you see her practicing and you’re like, okay, she’s gonna kick a couple of dudes’ asses. And no, but she, there is, I mean, she does, she has her moment to shine, but it’s not with martial arts, it’s with a gun.
Louis Virtel Yes, right. No, it’s strange in a way. Now, how do you feel about Paul Thomas Anderson in general? Where does this movie stack up in its filmography?
Jay Jurden Well, Paul Thomas Anderson, or as black people call him, my husband, you know, PTA member, I…
Louis Virtel You’re a member of the Harbor Valley PTA, yes.
Jay Jurden Member of the Harbor Valley PTA, I, you know, as a millennial of a certain age, you’re told Boogie Nights is this movie that you have to watch. And first it’s for these kind of like weird horny teenager reasons. And then it’s like, if you like movies. And so I loved it. It’s not, it didn’t feel very Paul Thomas Anderson. And I think that’s a good thing. People are saying it feels… Spielberg feels Coen Brothers. And I like that I wasn’t able to say, oh, this is exactly what he always does. I loved it. No, I feel the same way. The scene with the cars, the chase scene with cars going up, the three cars. I loved that. I loved the entire sequence.
Louis Virtel Also what you’re talking about, there’s a sequence where Chase Infinity is in a car and being pursued. And we don’t know what it’s leading up to because it’s this slow up and down hills. It almost looks like in Vertigo when he’s following Kim Novak through San Francisco and you’re just going up and downhill. But you realize it’s setting up her, getting one over on him in a fun way using the car. It’s really impressive. But I wanted to say, I don’t if you saw the Austin Butler movie recently, Caught Stealing. Yes, it is. That was Darren Aronofsky. And I had a similar reaction, which is why is this Darren Aronofsky? There’s usually some sort of psychological turmoil going on in his movies. And that’s just basically a straight thriller. All the trauma is external. And in this movie, not one thing reminded me of another Paul Thomas Anderson movie. And I feel like Phantom Thread was a similar thing. We saw that we’re like, are we sure it’s Paul?
Jay Jurden That’s great. As a person who wants to see artists and directors and screenwriters grow, that’s a really cool feeling to go, what’s this?
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Jay Jurden Go for it.
Louis Virtel I think it’s doubly surprising because the last movie, Liquorish Pizza, does remind me of Boogie Night. The setting, you know? I mean, like the kinds of types that are sort of lingering on the outside. The weird one scene, great performances you get, things like that, things that are standard for his movies. The only way this movie reminds me of other Paul Thomas Anderson movies is that no character is left behind. Everybody is a little bit fascinating. Like he refuses to bore you with anyone on screen. Like nobody in the movie is obligatory.
Jay Jurden Even the skateboarders are fascinating.
Louis Virtel Yes.
Jay Jurden I want to know more about these guys.
Louis Virtel These people appear for two seconds and you’re like, what the hell is going on? And they’re like fascinating and they’re gone. Yeah. You know? But truly, the entire cast is flawless in this. We haven’t even brought up Benicio del Toro.
Jay Jurden Benicio del Toro, also hilarious. Yes. Hilarious, cool, calm, and collected. The entire movie runs a dojo. Oh, the other thing I want to say about this film, it is going to piss off so many people. And the people who get mad at this movie are telling on themselves in a way that I, I think the election also told on them. The people who are going to be like, I hated this movie. I’m going to say, well, why? And if it’s just because of the race mixing and because of message about Latino people and about immigration, it’s going to really have a sharp divide amongst some people. Especially, I think some center-right cinephiles who are going to be like, well, I didn’t like this movie because it made the revolutionaries look like good people.
Louis Virtel I will say the critical reaction, though, has been extraordinary. I mean, like it has something like a 95 or 96. Yeah, people are saying movie of the year.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel Jesus Christ. How do we feel about the fact that Sean Penn will likely beat Cate Blanchett to having three Oscars? Because I prayed on it.
Jay Jurden I think if I close my eyes, I don’t know how Sean Penn is also Steve Lockjaw and Harvey Milk, so give him the Oscar. That is true. If I go, wait, what? Give it to him.
Louis Virtel I don’t know that I’ve ever actually done the emotional debriefing with myself about how good he was as Harvey Milk. It just, first of all, he looks so much like him that it’s like, of course it could only be him. And then he was amazing.
Jay Jurden Yeah, yeah, and played faggy, but not in a way that I was mad about.
Louis Virtel Right, and then the story on set about how he texted Madonna when he had his first male on male kiss and her response was congratulations. I didn’t know that. So good.
Jay Jurden That’s awesome. Yeah, as far as my, yeah, favorite straight gay people, Sean Penn, Jean-Marie Cosa Racy. That’s where.
Louis Virtel No, I always say there’s three in conclave, which are Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and Ray Fiennes.
Jay Jurden The Stanley Tucci of it all. I mean, if we talk, once again, sidebar. Easy A Stanley Tucci. Oh, sure. My God. Is it with Lisa Kudrow? No, who’s his wife? His wife, oh my gosh. Oh, shit, shit shit. It’s not Lisa Koudrow. I’m blanking because they have that adopted black son and they have the hilarious line of, I’m adopted.
Louis Virtel Allow me, Patricia Clarkson. Patricia Clarksons. Sorry, Patricia Clarkson, pieces of April’s own.
Jay Jurden Yes, Patricia Clarkson. One, I mean him, there’s that scene that always pops up on my Twitter of him in that Henley and people are like, listen, he was higher than Penn Badgley in this movie.
Louis Virtel No kidding. Well, he used to do like literal guest commercials and stuff.
Jay Jurden Yeah, oh, oh the tank top, the tanktop and the jeans.
Louis Virtel And also, you of course saw him at whatever that fashion show was this weekend with Meryl Streep for the Devil Wears Prada 2, looking like some divorced parents going to see their gay son in Oklahoma. Ugh, I cannot wait for that. Anyway, if I had to rank this among his films, I think I’d probably put it maybe, I’m gonna go third. Because I love Phantom Thread. I’m sorry, I can’t, like Daniel Day-Louis getting Oscar nominated for playing basically a meaner Tim Gunn. Like if I had a hope chest, you better be, I would be there like making wishes about it.
Jay Jurden A meaner Tim Gunn.
Louis Virtel And then I think I would put Boogie Night Second. Magnolia, I wish I could say is up there, but I think the movie is like a slog and I just love the music.
Jay Jurden Oh, then what’s number one for you? You said third?
Louis Virtel Yeah, Phantom Thread, Boogie Nights, and then one battle after another. How about you?
Jay Jurden Uh, I’m gonna argue, it’s, it might be top two now for me, just because it’s the one I have most enjoyed. It’s the that I was like blown away by. It’s one that I’m seeing all of my friends agree with me on. It’s also, yeah, a Phantom Thread for me. The first time I saw it, I did have to be like, oh, okay, this is. You know, this isn’t my type of movie, but it is beautiful. It’s been a very meticulous movie. I put it top two, Boogie Nights is gonna be number one for me, because it’s one of those movies where I was like.
Louis Virtel Julianne, come on now.
Jay Jurden Who knew? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it’s one of those movies where you go, this is a grownup movie. Yes. I’m watching a grown up movie right now. Do you know what my first one of those was?
Louis Virtel Starship Troopers. Wow. I was at a friend’s house and the dad was just like, let’s put this on. And I went and watched it. I was like, my world is changing. The shower scene is zany. Wow.
Jay Jurden Well, okay, that’s another. Did people not understand, the people who won’t understand the message behind this, they probably also didn’t understand the message of behind Starship Troopers.
Louis Virtel Oh, no, don’t look for the allegory in the boobs movie. Please. Don’t tell America to do that. Anyway, no. I mean, if you haven’t seen it, you have to. I think it’s gonna sweep the Oscars this year. Nothing seems to be even. Chloe Zhao, you’ve got your work cut out for you. I cannot wait to see that movie.
Jay Jurden The thing about here, they only put out two movies a year now. I know. I know.
Louis Virtel No, the Oscars are just gonna be the five movies we put out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like Minions Nine.
Jay Jurden Which definitely helps with marketing, but how do you feel this recent kind of naked and explicit kind of less is more approach to movie marketing? And I think that’s because everything can come out on streaming now. We know tons of movies are made, but now it’s kind of like, hey, the minute it’s spring, they go this Christmas. You go, wait, what? Right. Is there anything coming out this summer? They go, yeah, Superman.
Louis Virtel I guess in a way, I’m just in a weigh heartened that the campaigning, that people care to make Oscar campaigns. I don’t know. I guess that’s probably gonna go away at some point, but the fact that it’s still so heated feels like the one thing in the world that is lightly catered to me entertainment-wise. Yeah. You know? And so I’m believing in the illusion that I belong. You know what I’m saying? You know what I’m saying?
Jay Jurden It also makes you, it makes your job easier because you don’t have to talk about all these movies. You go, okay, let’s be honest. These are the three movies.
Louis Virtel Oh, certainly. No, watch me not go and use all my AMC passes. Precisely. Okay, we’ll be right back with Herdiver, Gillian Anderson.
[AD]
Louis Virtel This week’s guest is an Emmy and Golden Globe winner known for her unforgettable performances in The X-Files, The Crown, The Fabulous, The Fall, Sex Education and much, much more, which we’ll get into. And now she’s tapping back into her sci-fi roots in Tron Aries, which hits theaters this weekend. Please welcome to Keep It the fab Gillian Anderson.
Gillian Anderson Hi.
Louis Virtel Hi.
Gillian Anderson Well, hello.
Louis Virtel Well, I just said so in the intro, but you’re primarily associated with sci-fi, but honestly you haven’t done much other sci-fis since The X-Files. So did you regain a skillset in coming back or coming into this world?
Gillian Anderson Um, it has been a while. I feel like there was something else that I did that maybe went straight to video or something, but yeah, this feels like it’s the first foray in a gosh, a really long time, really long-time, but it’s fine. I mean, being invited to be a part of that particular franchise is, you know, an honor. And I’m happy to say that it’s a really good ride.
Louis Virtel Also, you, so you are the mother of Evan Peters character in this, who I find to be a very mysterious fun actor in whatever he’s in because he can play anything, kind of like you, like you don’t have a type. And so I was wondering what was interacting with him in this like, because I feel like he can burst with any sort of character at any moment.
Gillian Anderson Yeah, you know what? I think you’re right. I think he really can. I think is incredibly talented. He, you a huge film like this that has the kind of budget that this had for Disney, you know, with humongous practical sets and the, you the room that we mostly… Worked together and was the size of an airplane hanger and was pretty much empty because it was blue screen and later got filled with other things. But, you know, his character is, is intense and he completely fills that space from the very second we begin. And you get a sense of his, you know, the mental state that he is in and Well, just the stakes, I guess, because of, because of his intensity, you really get a sense of the stakes not just for the company, my company, as his mom, he’s now running the Dillinger company, but also potentially for the state of humanity because he’s creating something that is the equivalent of an AI warlord. In a sense.
Louis Virtel Pretty timely, yeah. Is it easy to be cowed sometimes by being on a gigantic set? Do you often feel like you have to kind of find yourself again or center yourself if you’re placed in this utter gymnasium of a place?
Gillian Anderson It is, it’s intimidating. And very often, which was the case with this because the space is so big, even if we’re having an intimate conversation. We were quite far from each other and having to throw, you know what I mean? We had to stand quite far from each another in this space in order to have this intimate conversation. And so just the practical logistics of that are something to wrestle with. But, you it’s actually turned into one of my favorite scenes because there’s so much that. That had to fill the history of our relationship and the relationship of the company all in that one first scene without that much exposition. And so it actually, it holds quite a lot of juice.
Louis Virtel No, this also just has a fabulous ensemble. But I feel like in a lot of ensemble films, you don’t actually get to meet, it feels like the actors don’t get to all meet each other since they’re all filming at different times. Did you actually like get to know these people or are they all, you know, like just on a call sheet somewhere next to you?
Gillian Anderson On a call sheet. I didn’t get to work with Greta Lee at all. She’s absolutely phenomenal in this and everything. Or Archero. It was mostly me and Evan, but you know, he’s. As with a lot of actors, I mean, I wouldn’t say that he’s method in the way that Jared works, but you know, you stay in your intensity sometimes very often if you’re needing to keep up. A vibration, you know. So there’s not much chit chat and goofing around between takes, but he’s great. And he really feels, he absolutely steps up to the plate with this character. He’s, yeah, he’s very intense.
Louis Virtel Because you’re also in one of my favorite ensemble movies of, I think it’s now over 25 years old, Playing by Heart, where you spend most of your time with Jon Stewart. But I was wondering about that ensemble, just because you got Jenna Rollins in that movie and Ellen Burstyn and Jay Morris so good in that.
Gillian Anderson And Angelina Jolie.
Louis Virtel Angelina Jolie, oh yes. I remember her Raver character days, yes.
Gillian Anderson Yeah, yeah, it was quite a cast for that. Oh my God, I need to see that again. I haven’t seen that in a few centuries.
Louis Virtel What was working with Jon Stewart, right? Right, like the second before he took The Daily Show.
Gillian Anderson I know, it was funny. We became friends at that point and we had quite a few conversations about should he, shouldn’t he, should he should he? Should he, and he did. And that’s, you know, it was fun, I mean, it really was. It was way, you now, it was way before in a sense, he became that guy. And it was so clear when talking with him. At that time about why he was thinking about it. It was so clear that the way that he understood government and culture and conglomerates and the way the society works in terms of the compromises and… He understood it on such a different level for me. I felt like he was talking in other language when we were talking about it. And so he was the perfect, the perfect guy for that job.
Louis Virtel Speaking of stars and their specific gifts, I think one of my favorite things about you as a performer is just the level of interiority of a character you can convey by looking somewhere. Like I feel like I can always watching your characters, I can watch them think. And one show where I felt like that was always the case was The Fall. Like to me, the compelling thing about that show was we would watch you, you know, be on the serial killers, following them around. But it was also about like… This woman was so self-possessed and you were like just wanting to know where she was coming from and like everything was a clue to her. And I really enjoyed that. But you must’ve had a lot of faith in yourself just to sort of exist on camera and have things about this character sort of feel conveyed without saying anything.
Gillian Anderson Interesting.
Louis Virtel How did you go about like making this character feel so full, seemingly without doing much in certain scenes?
Gillian Anderson Yeah, I mean, when I first got that script, it felt like such a gift in that moment. And I was stunned by how little was on the page. And yet you understood entirely who these characters were without hardly any descriptives. It came out in… How they spoke to each other and how the… I don’t know, there was something it was almost, I’ve said before that it almost felt alchemic. And so I think because of that and because of how the show was approached, it felt like, you know, I’d been used to doing shows where you’re just… You’re just having to move really, really fast and make really fast decisions. And there’s so much to get done in a day. And you know, for X-Files, for instance, it was, you know we did 24 episodes a year, which is…
Louis Virtel It feels unfathomable and you would not have a soul afterwards.
Gillian Anderson I did not have a soul for a while. And so there was a freedom to take time with scenes and to breathe. And so I think I really kind of latched on to the freedom of that. And so it’s interesting that you say that because it was a very different experience than I’d had before. And I think I just, I took advantage of it, I guess. I remember too, many years ago, working on House of Myrth. And that was also… In which you are fabulous.
Louis Virtel In which you are fabulous, by the way. If people have not seen this House of Myrth, you are stunning in it.
Gillian Anderson Thank you. It was one of the first features that I ever did. And you know, again, it was right in the middle of doing X-Files. And we had, and I remember Terrence Davies saying, you know not to rush and that it was okay to just sit and be as the character in certain moments and allow the camera to sit, you know with me and us. And it was, I almost panicked, I think. I didn’t know how to do that anymore because I was used to just, you know, having to work so speedily. So when you do have the freedom or you’re directed into that space, it’s nice to be able to take advantage of it and feel like you can fill it with the presence of that character.
Louis Virtel That was also a strength of his. That movie was Cynthia Nixon, A Quiet Passion, where she played Emily Dickinson. You get to sit with the character, you know. She wasn’t illustrating that she was Emily Dickenson at every given moment, you now.
Gillian Anderson Right, right.
Louis Virtel Now, speaking of characters you’ve played where I think you had sort of an opposite situation when you were in A Streetcar Named Desire, that’s obviously all on the page. I could not believe that performance. I saw, I believe, an early, one of your first performances in it in New York. I can’t believe that’s almost 10 years ago now. And now I think that character, Blanche Dubois, stands alone as someone who not just haunts the people who watch it, but haunts the people who play it and just the sheer. The heft of what she goes through. I mean, the trauma is an understatement. She’s utterly destroyed by that play and to do it that often. I actually can’t, I can’t intellectualize what that would do to the performer playing it every night.
Gillian Anderson It takes its toll. There was a period during the New York run. You know, just for my own, I felt, I haven’t thought about this for a while, but I felt so vulnerable, you know, holding that vulnerability that I felt that I needed to do. I literally couldn’t go to the corner store in between shows. I had a very small life when I was here because I just felt like I was existing for the play. And. And I guess the toll is, it’s funny, someone came, I’ve known for a long time who said. You know, with this particular production, especially because it was so raw that she could feel the audience not wanting to deal with the actions that were happening and with the intensity of what was happening on stage. So she could almost feel the whole audience, like, you know, pushing back their experience back onto me. Like, I don’t want this shit, you take it back. And so almost like I was carrying. Not just, you know, Blanche’s experience, but also the night after night that, and I started to, I was having almost, at the time almost at first, it felt almost like a spiritual experience because I felt so in it, particularly during a couple of monologs that I. It was, you know, I remember Corey Johnson coming to me after a couple of performances, you now, and saying, what’s happening? It’s a man like, you like, oh, and it kind of felt like that until it didn’t anymore. And all of a sudden I thought, I don’t know whether I can come back from this. Like I gotta tether myself. And so I needed, you I needed to find ways to ground myself throughout it, or I could just almost, you know, when. Blanche spends a lot of time in the bathtub. A lot of people are doing scenes, but those were moments where I could actually remember that I was an actor and I’m doing this play and I am not Blanche, and I can, you know, and then get back into it by the time I step beyond the shower curtain. So then that really made the difference. So yeah, I know I’ve, it’s, but I don’t know. I mean, I’m always fascinated by that. Like what makes the difference? Why is it that there are certain. Pieces that are so, that really get under your skin. I mean, obviously she goes on an intense journey, but there is something specific to her journey and that play and the complexity of the play. And I don’t know what Tennessee did. You know, that made it so, so many layers thick that if you start to excavate, you, it feels like you are taking on, you’re taking on more than just your experience. It’s almost like you’re taking on the history of everyone’s experience. Who’s ever done it. And you feel like you join a club almost that if you’ve, you know, if you’d done that play, you’ve joined that club of the Tennessee Williams club.
Louis Virtel I feel like also the way that play ends or the way you guys staged it, like when you’re nearer to the audience, that to me feels particularly brutal. Like after that, like you having to, I assume look in the faces of the people who have just watched this show.
Gillian Anderson Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, so it was in the rounds and it was also a revolving stage. And, and at the end actually, when in that production, when the doctor and the nurse come and they take Blanche away, she’s wearing this yellow sequined dress. She’s just come, you know, she’s wet. She’s been in the shower and the bathtub and her makeup is a mess and her hair is wet. She thinks, you know, she’s behaving as if that’s not the case and she’s getting dressed and she puts her jacket on this wet dress and carries her purse. And her gentleman caller has come, the doctor has come to take her to the asylum. And we do, we did a couple of rotations around the stage, like right in front of the audience. We walked around a couple of times as the. As the stage continued to revolve to a cat power song, which was such a great song for that, for that journey or the end of the journey for her. And yes, looked dead in the eyes of the audience sitting there. And so many of them, you know, put their hands, they were weeping, weeping. Okay.
Louis Virtel My friend Jordan was crying next to me, like literally holding his face, just as you said, it’s like, I cannot be an actor having to look at a man crying. I’m sorry, I can’t imagine it. But speaking of cat power, I was gonna ask about one of her contemporaries on the all about Eve stage production you worked on, PJ Harvey did the music for it. And you sang a song of hers. And that to me is a dream collaboration. Tell me about working with somebody who I consider one of the few like geniuses in popular music.
Gillian Anderson A production in London with Lily James and she too had a song and we both, for PJ who was gonna put out an album with the songs on it, we went in the studio and actually recorded our songs. But yeah, I don’t sing.
Louis Virtel Yeah, I’m gonna say this seemed to be a new skillset.
Gillian Anderson I really don’t say, and I’m not sure whether that is an example of singing at all. So, but it was, there was enough that I could kind of latch onto in it that it, yeah. But yeah, it’s out there.
Louis Virtel I love the music to it, by the way. I wanna speak on Gillian’s behalf here. Obviously you are known for your collaboration with David Duchovny, but I was wondering if you had other scene partners who have sort of stuck with you as in like the way there’s a sort of confrontational nature to it or what that person brought out of you or what you brought out them surprised you any particular sort of tete-a-tete that come to mind.
Gillian Anderson Oh, interesting. Actually, I just did a film, a Jane Showenbrunn film with Hannah Einbender. Whom we love, yes, yes. Whom I love and really felt like she’s, you know, incredibly talented young actress and felt like we, she definitely brought some stuff out of me that I haven’t. Accessed before necessarily. And oh, and also, you know, I did something that’s coming out later this year, which is in the UK, a Channel 4 series based on a novel called Trespasses, which is a love story that takes place during the troubles. And another young actress, Lola Pettigrew, plays my daughter and I play her. Alcoholic mother. And that was a really enjoyable experience and felt like she, something about that dynamic as well. Yeah, it’s interesting because you say goodbye to these people, you know, you get so, you have these intense relationships for such. Short periods of time where you give so much of yourself to each other. And then, you know, and then you never see him again until you start a press store because you both get busy or you know whatever. It’s an odd thing about our industry. Yeah, I’m trying to think of any of any co-labs. I mean, you know, showing up for three seasons to Hannibal with meds or. Yeah, ASA, I guess in sex education, you know. Reuniting with people that you’ve shared that kind of vulnerability with, I guess, for extended periods of time. You don’t have to see each other necessarily in between but you’ve got that, you know, that real intimacy that happens.
Louis Virtel My last question pertaining to sex education is you compiled a book of sexual fantasies submitted to you anonymously, which is a sequel to a much older book basically from the 50s called My Secret Garden. This was called Want. And now that that’s been out for a while, what are the lasting impressions of that experience to you because I feel like if I read all those things, if I was picking all those passages just like. I don’t know. I feel like I would still be thinking about it. I would be like, I need to know these women, you know.
Gillian Anderson Well, it’s had, you know, an extended life. So the book came out a couple years ago that the soft cover has just launched and you know we’ve been, at least in the UK, I think we’ve 10 weeks on the number one on the Sunday Times bestseller list which means that people are still, you know they’re still wanting to spend time with it and wanting to, you now. Have that in their mind. So it’s women who wrote in from around the world to me with their sexual fantasies. And you know, in the process of having that conversation during press and talking about the book and it was really interesting talking to women journalists and. What comes up? Not just when you’re reading the fantasies but when you are contemplating. You can’t help but do is to ask yourself, you know, if I were to write one, if I was to submit one or even do I have a fantasy? And if I have fantasy, have I ever shared it with anybody? If I haven’t, why? You know, the book is called Want and it encourages women in a way to ask whether they actually. Get what they want. You know, whether it’s connected to the fantasy or not but do they get what they wants in the bedroom? Do they, if they don’t, why? Are they, is it a shame? Which seems to surface quite a lot even in 2025. Is it nerves about asking one’s partner to satisfy something? And if so, is that because one’s nervous about, you know, hurting their feelings or that they might think that they’re not performing or maybe it’s too uncomfortable? And if, so why, if it could equate to a certain degree of pleasure? So it can’t but open up all of those questions for oneself and then ultimately leads to, you know, if I don’t, how am I? How am I complicit actually in not getting what I want? How am i complicit in not getting what i want outside the bedroom? How am getting in my own way? And so it starts some really, really big profound questions. And we are in the process of collecting more letters. But we collected letters, we’re putting them together right now for the second book. And. We’ve done a couple of events in the UK. There was a very, a big event that I held to raise money for War Child at the Barbican in London that was a fantastic evening full of wonderful women and reading letters from the book and. Women particularly feeling seen and heard even though they are anonymous but feeling that they recognize themselves in this book. And actually there was a woman who showed up for the event who came and talked to me backstage afterwards because her letter was actually read that evening by Olivia Wild. And which was surprising for her but she had fantasized about. About she was married in a hetero relationship but had fantasized about a woman who lived down the street. But she actually came that night with that woman because she is now in a relationship.
Louis Virtel Oh, get out. Yeah. Oh, that’s amazing.
Gillian Anderson Isn’t that amazing?
Louis Virtel I would say if it sounds like the sequel or the next book you make will be amazing anyway. I would like some of the same people to follow up. Do they still have the fantasy or has it changed or whatever? So very fascinating. Gillian Anderson, thank you so much for being here.
Gillian Anderson Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Louis Virtel What a pleasure, thank you. Thank you to Gillian Anderson, Tron Aries hits theaters next weekend. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.
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Louis Virtel Christmas has apparently come early because after a seven year hiatus, I can’t believe it’s been that long. Mariah Carey is back with her new album, Here For It All. I personally am here for most of it, but Jay might try to convince me otherwise. So we’ll try to get into that. And then also Doja Cat’s new album Vi. So Jay, are you a big Mariah Carrey fan or are you bad person?
Jay Jurden Huge Mariah Carey fan, card carrying lamb. Mariah Carrey or her staff, but I’m choosing to assume Mariah Carry commented on a TikTok I had. I posted TikTok when I was on Fire Island. A tear is like falling from my face. I posted a TikTok when was on fire Island, basically talking about how much I love Breakdown from the album Butterfly. Breakdown, one of the.
Louis Virtel Truly, if you’re in the lambily, I think breakdown is one of the essentials. It’s like what deeper and deeper is from adoption.
Jay Jurden Okay, so Breakdown is one of those songs that made me go, what is she doing with this layering? This is such a complex, it was one of my first, I think it was, Butterfly was one my first CDs where I was like listening to it constantly by myself. And so I did a breakdown of Breakdown. I basically made a joke. I was Mariah Carey’s having this emotional breakdown and the bone thugs are just humming in the background, help that woman, please, crazy. So she commented that like, you get it. And I was like. So then when Here For It All came out, I was so excited. I really liked this album and here’s why. I’m a queer of a certain age. This album feels like when you go to a lounge and you’re excited because there are lots of seats. Right? Okay, it feels, it’s auntie music, but it’s still sexy, it still elevated. Mariah, every now and then Mariah does want to remind you. That she never had a problem embracing being a diva. Mariah kind of was one of those people who never thought that diva was a bad word. She was like, it’s an app description for me. And very much in her Ms. Piggy like, call me, I’m a divas, that should be. What’s wrong with that?
Louis Virtel Yeah, she’s like Peggy Lee or something.
Jay Jurden Yeah, truly. And so like, I really like this album. I like this because it seems like it would be wonderful live. A lot of the production on it feels like it would translate to a live performance effortlessly in a way that sometimes there are parts of caution that I was like, how are you going to do this one live? But I really, really liked this album, I think Pitchfork gave it a seven. I give it, I think it’s like, I think its 8.5 territory for me. I’m, you know, I’m a lamb though, so it’s hard for me to get mad at her, but I really like this album.
Louis Virtel I also think it has a number of Mariah Touchstones in it. She’s still giving you all the adverbs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of long six-syllable words that end in ly.
Jay Jurden The thesaurus? Carrie?
Louis Virtel Yeah. She loves a long word. And also, like, even during the loungiest song, she’ll still slide in, like a little bit of a kiss-off, some sassiness. Enjoy your Chick-fil-A. I was going to bring up the enjoy your Chick fil-A line. She refuses to be unfunny. And I feel like that’s something that, like keeps me coming back to her. It’s like, you know, even in an interview, you know there are times when just Mariah sometimes feels like she has less, shall we say, effervescence than she used to. But then when it gets into the funny and she just drops into, like, a one-liner, it’s like, that’s what I love.
Jay Jurden Yeah, not only is that what we want, I think that she is so self-aware. She’s been in the public eye for so long. She’s had so many different iterations of Mariah. She’s said so many very public, not L’s, but just things where you go, okay, what are we going to do? How do we, you know, how do we pivot this narrative? How do you tell this story? She gets the Video Vanguard Award, goes up and says, MTV, what took you so long? Perfect. That’s exactly what you do. You go, MTV. This took way too long. It’s her doing the tiniest amount of dancing when she has to do the honey choreography. It’s making sure she has a drag queen play Bianca in the Heartbreaker live version so she can do some very, very, very silly stage fight choreography with that Bianca. She is a funny lady. I love that she embraces that.
Louis Virtel Yes, I also, as you said regarding Breakdown, I love that she stands her own deep cuts. Oh, yeah. Like a lot of artists don’t, like a lot, it’s like, oh, well, that didn’t take off. And so it’s almost like a point of contention when you bring up things like that. But she really, you know, she’s a songwriter. She wrote these songs.
Jay Jurden She wrote them. Of course she’s going to love them.
Louis Virtel So there’s a pride there.
Jay Jurden Yeah, and now she’s like, she did the interview with SZA, who’s on Dosha’s album. She did an interview with Sza where she, like, played snippets live of the Grunge album, Somebody’s Ugly Daughter.
Louis Virtel This is an album that didn’t come out that she recorded kind of as a gag in the 90s.
Jay Jurden And I love that about her. She, she really is, she’s a rare talent who has been with us for a very long time. She’s been so many different types of Mariah that I’m just happy that we still have her. And once again, Kristen’s going to come around and she going to play the hits. Right. That’s the, and she gives so many people opportunities. Kelly Price, the Price sisters, the background singers, she made sure we saw the power in Kelly Price. So I do love that.
Louis Virtel We also must talk about a collaborator I didn’t know she had even met before, and that is Jesus Christ. Excuse me. I did not know they were acquainted. And I don’t know if you know this.
Jay Jurden MC to JC. Yeah.
Louis Virtel Yes. They know each other. She has a song. What’s the name of the song? Jesus.
Jay Jurden Yeah, at the very end.
Louis Virtel Yes, with the Price sisters. Yeah, I think it’s the second, no, with the Clark sisters. Clark sisters, second to last song. Anyway, Jesus has brought up several times. He rarely collaborates.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel Last time I believe he was on the track was that Michelle Williams solo song.
Jay Jurden And he said yes.
Louis Virtel Yes, when Jesus say yes.
Jay Jurden No one can say no.
Louis Virtel You can tell Jesus wrote that one.
Jay Jurden Mariah’s both celebration of, I don’t want to say gospel roots, but her being celebrated through gospel. It comes through on the Christmas album. The Christmas album has two gospel, gospel songs. Like Jesus, Oh, What a Wonderful Child is a song that like, in that song, if you haven’t called, listen, I don’t t go to church as much as I need to, but I catch the Holy Ghost in that songs. So she, I think Jesus has, Mariah,
Louis Virtel Jesus, they speak. That’s just, I underestimate the Christmas connection because when you listen to like a Carpenter’s Christmas album, there are two tracks deep in there where it gets real holy. Yeah, it’s like, so you guys are at church?
Jay Jurden Yes.
Louis Virtel Is this like a little bit like indoctrination? Like I don’t actually know what’s happening, but Mariah’s festiveness has always been so jingle bell Christmas that I underestimate that Christ could be a part of it too.
Jay Jurden Yes, and Mariah also with this album, and it’s tied to the Doja album and tied to One Battle After Another. Mariah, Mariah has never had to be this little mixed girl who doesn’t love her blackness. Mariah loves her black. When you see Mariah like in pictures with the locks in 1998, when she put Bad Boys on the track, when she did songs with Jadakiss, when she does songs with Cam, Mariah when she, you know, when she… Was in love with Nick Cannon. Mariah loves her blackness and celebrates her blackiness in a way that comes across in celebrating gospel, in celebrating other black singers, and in kind of like want to have little rappy punch lines. I always argue Mariah is a person who out rapped Eminem when it came to Obsessed. Eminem put out Superman, which is about Mariah and kind of making fun of her and whatever situation they had. And then she put out Obsessed, and then she out an Obsessed remix with Gucci Mane and kind a… Out rapped Eminem and put him in his place.
Louis Virtel I also, I mean like this is boilerplate information about Mariah Carey that everybody knows. I just love that she’ll put out a pop song or whatever, an R&B song, and then later you get some remix version of it that advances on it, turns it into something else, adds like entire other layers and messages to it. Just like it’s so exciting.
Jay Jurden Yeah, and she would do that with her with her club mixes too. Yeah. All of her club mixes, she would re-record and she was say, oh, I want this, I want to do a different arrangement on this. I want make sure this is for this audience. I love her artistry in that regard.
Louis Virtel No, and on these remixes, you know what I just love? Is it the Heartbreaker remix where at the beginning she just goes, just play the record. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really like comedic delivery. She can’t be stopped. She will always be. Again, that’s something that always kind of keeps me coming back to Nicki Minaj is like, well, unfortunately the woman is hilarious.
Jay Jurden Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Louis Virtel She will assassinate somebody and I’ll feel bad for saying that, but yeah.
Jay Jurden Yeah, I’m sorry about her cousin’s balls, by the way. Still.
Louis Virtel Still, yes, to this day. Now, speaking of pretty funny. Okay. Doja Cat has a new album called Bye. Yes. Okay. I love this album. Okay. Yeah. I, to me, it’s like.
Jay Jurden Dripping incense. Yes. Dripping Incense.
Louis Virtel Well, it just, as I said before, it makes me mad at people who claim to be 80s inspired because this album has songs that remind me of like cameo. You know, like word up cameo or back and forth cameo, you know, Jeffrey Osborne, people like that. And it’s like danceable 80s. Normally, I feel like when people evoke the 80s, it’s sort of always a little Depeche mode. You know what I mean? Like there’s moodiness and there’s electronic sounding things. This is danceable. It’s very serious, XM the groove.
Jay Jurden Yeah. You know why? It’s because she found the power in 80s synth and 80s sax. The amount of saxophone on this album. Go off, Doja. I’m very happy for it. I mean, when everyone was like, oh, Jack Antonoff is going to be like very much involved in this. I was like okay, we’ll see what it, but it’s great. I really like it. She also, I think she is another person who really prides herself on writing all of her lyrics, both rap and song. I think that she loves popping and locking. Mariah and Doja both had really great VMAs. Mariah, because she was celebrating and kind of like finally got her flowers. But Doja, because Tate McCray said she wanted to dance. And Doja said, not on my show. If you can put a clip in and post, Doja dances her ass off in the dance break for, I think, jealous type. And it’s insane. She’s a breaker. And she’s like a very trained break dancer. But she dances circles around her backup dancers. And I mean, I’ll dance Tate McCray, in my opinion. And I know y’all like Tate. I like her too, but.
Louis Virtel We’re in an intense dance moment. Like people are dancing, as I used to say about Sierra, faster than ever. Like they can’t be stopped. It’s not just her and it’s not just Tate McCray, like Doja will get on stage. I’m like, Jesus Christ, what is happening?
Jay Jurden Listen, I’m gonna say, oh, those little girls in Cat’s Eye, they can dance. No gap notice. They’ll like put them in denim. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They made it. Part of it is TikTok. But people are learning choreography in a way that I haven’t seen since 99. People are learning choreography.
Louis Virtel I would almost call it like gamifying it in a way. How can we make it more intense? There’s like this real like competition to edge out each other with choreography.
Jay Jurden And keep doing it. Every now and then we see a hot boy in L.A. With abs doing it, shirtless in the studio. Keep sending them to me.
Louis Virtel I didn’t realize you were getting just like a special delivery.
Jay Jurden Oh, every now and then someone will be like, have you seen this? It’s like, I don’t care about the dancing. Who is this boy?
Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, it’s a delightful album. I know you said you hadn’t listened to the Jade album yet. I haven’t. Also very impressive. And I didn’t realize there is such a huge demand for this person in concert. Okay. Yes. Also, I have to root for people who come out of a girl group and want to make it. And on this album, she specifically samples Stop in the Name of Love by my favorite song on the album. Okay. I’m feeling that Diana Ross energy for her. I think she will sing in Central Park in The Freezing Rain. She’s got power. I’m safe for her
Jay Jurden That’s what makes a Diana Ross. If you come out of a girl group and you do that. That’s right.
Louis Virtel Those are all the steps and one acting Oscar nomination.
Jay Jurden Okay, yeah, we kind of forgot about that.
Louis Virtel You know, yeah, right. By the way, speaking of playing Billie Holiday on screen. What is Andra Day doing right now?
Jay Jurden I don’t know. Andra Day. She’s in something. She’s been something recently.
Louis Virtel Okay, well, she was in that movie with Glenn Close, where she says nappy. Yeah. What was that?
Jay Jurden Lee Daniels.
Louis Virtel It was called Lee Daniels, the nappy.
Jay Jurden Lee Daniels, the nappy pussy.
Louis Virtel The Deliverance is the name.
Jay Jurden Here’s the wild part. So this is all is all connected. Okay, biracial Mariah biracial Doja Cat one battle after another Jade the Deliverance. Listen, I don’t want to this shouldn’t be the swirl episode, but it does feel like a lot of artists right now are kind of answering the question of what does this mean for America? What is it? Because these two. Very popular, very talented biracial women and Doja. Once again, we know like the there’s been some like back and forth about how she views her rap audience and what she wants and like her frustrations as a performer. But I think these are really cool examples of like not living up or playing into like the tragic mulatto stereotypes like they’re really kind of like showcasing their own and both incorporating and embracing. Their blackness in their artistry and I do like that from both of them and the Paul Thomas Anderson movie was about blackness. It was about female blackness at its core. So that was also interest very interesting to watch. It’s I mean, I take it as a love letter to his wife and to his daughter. You’re right.
Louis Virtel Well, you actually are onto something also when it just comes to I think all these people are both diving into a genre and exploding it. Yeah, you know, so it’s like you’re getting what you expect from the genre and then also like so much more and like you realize like oh, yeah, why would boundaries keep you in like a pop album can be so much more than just, you know one mode.
Jay Jurden Yeah, and it’s a pop album, but it’s an is about Doja. It’s a Pop album, but like a love letter to the 80s, but still a fun rap album. She raps on a lot of the tracks and the song with SZA is very good.
Louis Virtel I also there are times in this album when Doja Cat not only is harkening back to the 80s. She’s harking back to artists who harken back to the 80s there’s a song called silly fun where she sounds just like Gwen Stefani in a way. I enjoy love Angel music baby era.
Jay Jurden She’s very and I mean this in the best way there are moments where I go. Oh, you really love Janet. Yeah on this. I go you love Janet Jackson.
Louis Virtel I feel like also cultural appreciation for her is only going to deepen because her music weirdly might be the most timeless of any music in the 80s and 90s.
Jay Jurden Oh, oh my God. I mean velvet Rope is I get so lonely could play right now. That’s my favorite song of this year.
Louis Virtel Yeah.
Jay Jurden Did this come out this year? It’s an insanely good song.
Louis Virtel And also of course the 21-second interludes that are called like like my dripping ass or whatever.
Jay Jurden I mean Escapade is amazing. But then like on there will be like just every now and then you’ll be like Janet is the most soft-spoken slut. Yes, I’ve ever met. Right every Janet interview is like. And then the minute she’s on stage, she’s timing up and making them come hands free.
Louis Virtel Muttering under her breath about it. All right. Anyway, lots of music that you should listen. Yeah, listen. I don’t hate any of it. We’ll be back with our favorite segment of the episode Keep It.
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Louis Virtel And now we’ve come to my favorite segment of the episode. It’s keep it. Jay, I know you came riled with some topic or another. Hit me.
Jay Jurden We teased it. Nicki Minaj Twitter keep it stop like get off of Twitter. Nicki Nicki last night. She tweeted at Cardi. Not again. Yeah, she was saying a bunch of shady shit about Cardi’s album sales and listen on an episode where we talk about Mariah Carey where we talked about Doja where now we talk about Cardi. You can’t beef with everybody and be in the right. You have a legacy. You have a family you ran rap for close to 10 years. I don’t see why you have to act like this and not for nothing. If you make fun of someone and your brother has the criminal history he has they’re going to bring it up like it’s being this kind of cantankerous and honoree. It just makes you look so mean and so old and for what that one song y’all beefing because that one Migos song still I just don’t I don’t get it. It makes me so sad because I love Nicki Minaj so much and it once again a person who is very funny. Yeah a person who is always funny a person who like really sort of like made a lot of queer men and women go I’m gonna listen to more rap totally guess what we can do this too. It just really breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. So these Nicki tweets keep it this beef with Cardi get rid do do anything else.
Louis Virtel The problem also with being cantankerous is that you have so much real time in life to be old like say that. For when you’re truly in your late 50s go which is not even that old older than that like go ahead and be pissed at everybody younger than you then but it’s like now these are like still your peers.
Jay Jurden And at that point people will go let her do it right. What’s your body if you’re mean and 70 they go she should be let her be me. Yeah, it’s it doesn’t make any sense to me. There’s also this like. Whenever it makes her feel older. I mean at one point lotto famously called her super freaky grandma because because she’s a super freak but also now she’s acting like a mean old lady and I know the barbers gonna get mad at me. Hey, first of all y’all need to be in school. Y’all y’alls need to be in school right now. Secondly, ya’ll agree with me. Nicki stop this.
Louis Virtel But I. I always say what I love about Nicki Minaj fans is like Madonna fans. We have been put through it and nobody nobody is under the illusion that she deserves 100 percent of the defense all the time like we all have kind of a bone to pick with her but it’s what you’re saying it’s like like Dionne Warwick’s Twitter like no one’s mad at her when she like like says something mean to chance the rapper whatever you know it’s like oh now it’s amusing.
Jay Jurden Oh my God, I forgot about Dionne Warwick.
Louis Virtel And you know we’re getting a Dionne Warwick biopic with Tiana Taylor.
Jay Jurden Oh, I was going to say we’re going well done, but okay.
Louis Virtel Ego Norton by the way has a sick body.
Jay Jurden Oh my goodness. I always say she’s a brilliant model who happened to be insanely good at sketch comedy.
Louis Virtel No, the woman she should be teaching me like boot camp. Yeah, yeah, crazy. Okay, my keep it today. I can’t believe that celebrity couples can still ruin my day. Oh, yesterday. Wow, I heard. Okay, and everybody did in the Kimmel room and I was the only one that gasped loudly. Can you believe it? I know that’s shocking.
Jay Jurden You’re in bereavement right now.
Louis Virtel Why am I not? Yeah, like like a character in Heathers or something. Keith Urban and Nicole Kidman are allegedly separated. One of the headlines said it was Keith’s decision. I didn’t need to hear that. They don’t tell me that.
Jay Jurden He packed up his flat iron and said I’m out.
Louis Virtel Precisely. Okay, my initial takeaway is that I believe he was preventing her from being the most employed person in entertainment history. She’s like I. She’s like I need I literally if all Nicole Kidman did was the television she does she would be one of the greatest television stars of all time. She never stops doing TV let alone all the baby girling and everything else she throws in. So I don’t know what’s happening there. But second of all, okay, let’s look at her marriage history. Yeah, it started with Tom Cruise. Yes. And then she said I want the same silhouette in beige and she picked Keith Urban. He has the haircut that I call the Peppermint Patty. Imagine if Peppermint Patty worked at Pacific Somewhere. You have Keith Urban.
Jay Jurden Now.
Louis Virtel I think she’s going to go for it again. Okay. In another shade. Right. I thought I had it. Yeah. I thought I had. Yeah. Australian. You want somebody who’s kind of a calming presence. Yes. But you want the hair. I immediately thought the guy from Silver Chair Daniel Johns. Okay. Do you remember him? No. Very attractive man. A little young for Nicole but like born in the 70s and he was married to Natalie Imbrulia for a time. So there’s a glamor quotient there. So I’m thinking she could hit that up. I just know she needs like a wonderful man with lank hair to calm down with.
Jay Jurden I mean I don’t want to make this about race mixing but this is why Aussies and Kiwis should never marry. Sure. Yeah. This is it’s too close. They’re going through all of this in Nashville by the way. Right. Which that’s funny. That’s funny in and of itself. The fact that this is happening not in Hollywood but in Nashville.
Louis Virtel I also am always amused when like Australians end up in the country community because they have an affinity for it. Yeah. Like there’s a whole controversy in the 70s where Olivia Newton-John was the hottest country star and would sing about growing up in Nashville. It’s like honey we have the encyclopedia we know from Australia.
Jay Jurden I think the outback and the Australian kind of rugged exterior of it all does make them sort of be like yeah we’re cowboys in a sense. Yeah right. I get that but yeah this happening in country fried Nashville a suburb of Nashville is very funny to me.
Louis Virtel Right now I think you can travel through the wormhole in the ozone layer and go between Nashville and Australia. It’s like the secret passageways in Glow.
Jay Jurden It’s basically hidden as a jump gate like for any space travel. Are you a Nicole Kidman stan? I love Nicole Kidman. I think she is so I think you’re so talented. I also think she is once again. I love divas. I love anyone who understands their power and like rest in it. My favorite Nicole Kidman kind of interaction and this isn’t a plug for me but whenever she to Fallon and was like Jimmy I was trying to fuck you and you wanted to play video games and Jimmy Fallon who is fun on his show was like no way he’s like on camera but in his I think in the darkest corner of his brain he was like what the fuck did I know?
Louis Virtel Right and also and it’s always I mean even from a silhouette side like it’s funny to watch her with him because she’s like 11-4. Yeah, she like put points down at him. Yeah, like she’s God in a Monty Python movie.
Jay Jurden Yeah, and he and I don’t know the image of this is before baby girl. This is before baby girl, but the image of Nicole Kidman sitting on Jimmy Fallon’s bed or couch while he plays video games just kind of waiting for him to make a move. It’s so funny to me.
Louis Virtel I actually refused to picture it so I won’t. I love it. Speaking of Nicole Kidman and One Battle After Another did you know that Chase Infinity is named after two things one Chase Meridian Nicole Kidmans character in Batman Forever and two to Infinity and Beyond from Toy Story. Excuse me her parents were extremely inspired by the box office pull of 1995.
Jay Jurden That’s why I don’t know being your name being tied that strongly to the year you were conceived. I guess is interesting.
Louis Virtel No, it’s like if I were named take my breath.
Jay Jurden Look it up. Yeah, I’m trying to think what came out in my year. I think it’s like if I was named like candy by cameo.
Louis Virtel Ain’t nothing wrong with that. I always think of you as candy by cameo. How interesting.
Jay Jurden Wired up good cameo pressure. I have a good came out Lauren. I have a great can I that was one of the things I was like.
Louis Virtel We’re just talking about how they need a new cameo.
Jay Jurden If you need it, I can do it like down there.
Louis Virtel Oh, the way you did. That was so amazing.
Jay Jurden Yeah, we got we have skills. We have talent.
Louis Virtel Jay, thank you so much for being here and thank you for being on my podcast with me.
Jay Jurden Thank you for having me. Louis. Once again, we’re squashing the J and Louis beef. Everyone remember and keep it fam. Look we crooked. We like each other. We get along.
Louis Virtel We’ll fight for money. Yeah, but like as it pertains to the show.
Jay Jurden Listen, you there are so many speedos to go around right both. We’re fine.
Louis Virtel No, Jay, you perform comedy. Where are you going to be doing it coming up?
Jay Jurden I’m going to be in so many places. I’m gonna be in Los Angeles at dynasty typewriter on October 29th. I’m Going to be at the Brea improv on October 30th. I’m gonna be at The Crocodile in Seattle on I want to say November 8th and I’m Going to be at the helium in Portland on November 9th tons of opportunities to see me all over the country. I’m on a new tour called nothing special. It’s nothing special and that’s all I’ll say.
Louis Virtel I’m excited to hear more about that and in person. I can’t wait to see you in LA. I also just want to say you’re a brilliant stand-up comic. You could just go up on stage with nothing prepared and kill a positive. No, that’s not true.
Jay Jurden I’m not Mrs. Maisel.
Louis Virtel She really has it.
Jay Jurden Yeah.
Louis Virtel She’s going to knock 1961 right out of the park.
Jay Jurden Yeah, I’ve never gone up and performed in my Teddy. The pilot episode she goes up in lingerie and a house coat.
Louis Virtel Really scandalizing the nineteen fifty five. She was like Elvis.
Jay Jurden My boobs are out though. Come see me. I’m in a tank.
Louis Virtel So please go see Jay on tour and then we’ll be back next week with more Keep It way back in Los Angeles. We’ll see you then. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter and Tik Tok. You can also subscribe to keep it on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are consider dropping us a review. Keep it is a Crooked media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath. Our associate producer is Kennedy Hill and our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison the third and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng and Rachel Gajewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jarek Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
