New Thor: Love & Thunder Trailer Reactions + Obi-Wan Kenobi Theories | Crooked Media
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May 27, 2022
X-Ray Vision
New Thor: Love & Thunder Trailer Reactions + Obi-Wan Kenobi Theories

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight ride the Goat Boat! First in Previously On (3:45), Jason and Rosie discuss the possibilities of the new MCU Daredevil show on Disney+, as reported by Variety, talk about Kathleen Kennedy’s comments in Vanity Fair regarding recasting legacy Star Wars characters (including a HOT TAKE on remaking the prequels), then analyze and theorize about what to expect from the Obi-Wan Kenobi series based on the Disney+UK watchlist (we’ll be diving deeeep into Kenobi itself next episode!). In the Airlock (40:13), Jason and Rosie dive deep (deeeep) into the latest Thor: Love and Thunder trailer – offering reactions, easter eggs, a whole host of theories, AND an explainer on some of the most mystifying cosmic Marvel lore there is. PLUS, since Jason and Rosie love you, they give their initial NON-SPOILER reactions to the upcoming Ms. Marvel series, landing on June 8 on Disney+.


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Listener’s Guide to X-Ray Vision

Princess of Alderaan – Written by Claudia Gray, published in 2017, about a young Leia Organa.


Eric Masterson aka Thunderstrike – Debuted in Thor #391; took on Thunderstrike mantle in Mighty Thor #459. An eponymous series, written by Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz, with art by Frenz and Al Milgrom, colors by Mike Rockwitz, and letters by Rick Parker, was released starting in 1993. Thunderstrike perished in issue #24.


Beta Ray Bill – Created by Walt Simonson; debuted in Thor #337 in 1983, featuring pencils and inks by Simonson, colors by George Roussos, letters by John Workman, and edited by the incomparable Mark Gruenwald (whose name comes up a lot!).


Thor #378 – Written by Walt Simonson, pencils & inks by Sal Buscema, colors by Max Scheele, letters by John Workman, & edited by Ralph Macchio. When Thor gets that new battle armor.


Infinity – Created by Stan Lee & John Buscema; first full appearance in Quasar #24 in 1991, which was written by Mark Gruenwald, penciled by Greg Capullo, inked by Keith Williams, colored by Paul Becton, & lettered by Janice Chiang.


NOTE: You can find all of our Jason Aaron / Esad Ribic Thor run recommendations in the Listener’s Guide to our WandaVision revisit episode!


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Jason Concepcion: Kids, adults, fans of all ages. This podcast episode contains spoilers for the Star Wars prequels, various Clone Wars animated show episodes, various Thor arcs from the comics. Although we don’t spoil them heavy, but we do give details from them. We’re careful not to spoil them heavy because we think it’s great if you go back and read those and we’re giving you a lot of theories for Obi-Wan Kenobi and Thor Love and Thunder in particular. And if any of those are right, number one, we told you. Number two, they might be spoilers. So take those with a grain of salt, but hopefully they won’t be. But hopefully we are also right.


Jason Concepcion: Hello. My name is Jason Concepcion and I am at approximately 98% of full health. And welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture today. On today’s episode on Previously On, we’re going to talk about a bunch of news, including an announcement of a new Daredevil show on Disney Plus. Kathleen Kennedy’s recent comments about her helming the Star Wars IP. Plus a primer and watch list from Obi-Wan Kenobi, which drops the day this podcast comes out, which means we have not been able to see it because we didn’t get screeners. Nobody did. In the airlock will be diving deep into everything that we see in the new Thor Love and Thunder trailer and a primer on a bunch of cosmic deities from Marvel that we think are going to be germane to this particular conversation. And of course, if you want to jump around, check out the timestamps in the show notes that those will help you with that. And joining me now is the best, the greatest, the number one, the smartest, the most wise, the number one comics encyclopedia in the world. Our co-host, Rosie Knight. Rosie, how are you? How are you feeling?


Rosie Knight: I’m feeling so much better. I’m still I feel like I’m still recovering, but I’m I’m feeling better. It’s nice to see you here with both of us. Not in the in the throes of a pandemic.


Jason Concepcion: That was very bad. I too feel like better for sure. There’s some lingering like it now during the middle of the day, I will just need to take, like, an hour and a half nap. Yep. Like, my head will become, like, so heavy. And my eyelids will feel like they’re made of lead. And I’ll just need to sleep. And I’ve got this cough that won’t go away, but I do feel better. It’s great that you’re feeling better as well. I would advise everyone out here to wear a mask and not get this version of the novel coronavirus COVID 19. Don’t do it.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I feel you. I literally. I’ve been sleeping every day till, like, 10:30. I just can’t stop. My body’s like, I’m just. You’re sleeping babe. Like, if you want to get ready, you’re sleeping.


Jason Concepcion: I wake up. I wake up to my alarm and I’m just like, I did not get any sleep. And then at night, when I’m going to sleep, I’m like, Turn everything off right now. I need to go to sleep immediately, right this moment. And then I need to drink like two cups of coffee to, like, jump start the engine. So hopefully this ends soon. But. But we’re better. Thank you, everyone, for your kind words. Yes, thank you. We’re better. And we’re back. Let’s get into the news. New Daredevil show. According to Variety, there is a new Daredevil series moving forward at Disney. Plus, with Variety having exclusively learned from sources that Matt Korman and Chris Ward are attached to write and EP. Basically what we have to say about this is we were right. We’re right. We we were right.


Rosie Knight: It’s nice to be right.


Jason Concepcion: It’s nice to be right. Not all of our predictions are correct. And in particular, we were predicting that we would see we’re going to see Matt Murdock in She-Hulk. And I think that was and that’s not confirmed. But I’m almost sure now that we’re going to see him in She-Hulk and we’re right, we were right that, that, that the series was going to happen. No news on whether the rest of the cast, most notably Vincent D’Onofrio as Kingpin, is also going appear. But we can certainly assume that that that’s going to happen. And for those of you, I’ve had a lot of people being like, Oh, man, I hope they don’t. I hope they don’t Disneyfy the tone, you know, the Netflix series was so violent and dark and gritty and like, I don’t want them to ruin, I think a good I think a good roadmap for how they’re going to treat it is Kingpin’s appearance in Hawkeye. Right? Like all of a sudden he showed up, he was wearing he was wearing comics, accurate wardrobe, and he’s taking like RPG projectiles to the chest and they’re bouncing off his big kingpin belly in the in the super fun Marvel style. And he’s and I think that that’s what we’re going to we’re going to see more. Comic book level action, despite the fact that he is a street level hero. That’s a guess. What are your thoughts on this?


Rosie Knight: No, I think you’re right. I think that we’ll see. I think we’re going to see Karen and Foggy come back. I think that Disney is aware of how beloved these characters are. And I think it’s less that they’re going to Disneyfy anything and more that they’re going to find a way to fit them into this space. Which, like you said, I mean, that show still ended with Kingpin with a gun to his head and somebody getting shot. Like there is a level of darkness, as many people liked about Moon Knight that was very brutal. That was a real tone shift there. So I don’t think they’re going to be afraid to deal with dark stuff. But I think, like you said, that violence is going to be more comic booky. Like we might see a Matt who spends less time shirtless and bruised on the couch of beautiful women, which was one of the best things about the Netflix show, but more of a more of a like superpowered man doing his thing. You know, it means in great relief for me that we likely will not see the Karen storyline that is really famous from the Frank Miller stuff, which is just really great. Yeah, right. I think that we’re going to do. A streamlined version of these characters that fits into Disney Plus World, especially She-Hulk, I think is going to basically kind of be like what we think. Echo is also going to act as which is a way to bring these two worlds together. The big question is, will that also translate for someone like Jessica Jones?


Jason Concepcion: Great question. And with the She-Hulk of it all, the She-Hulk in the comics being such a close ally of of Hellcat and Hellcat, of course, making her debut in Jessica Jones. Will we get some of those characters as well? I’ll say this. Here’s another thing that I think is emerging from these suite of Disney Plus Marvel shows that are coming out is I think that Disney Plus is where you’re going to get, you know, the Marvel Comics version of New York City, where it’s superheroes walking down the street all the time. And you can run into Dr. Strange at the coffee shop. And, you know, Matt Murdock is your neighborhood lawyer. All of that stuff, I think, is what they’re building out at Disney Plus. And I’m basing that in part from having watched the first two episodes of Miss Marvel, that feels very much like the kind of tone is like, yeah, that New York City, the New York metro area, this is where all your superheroes live.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I think that’s really true. And I think that that tone of that comic book feeling that there’s so many superheroes that you could just bump into them is something they’re going to be putting into this phase. Because when they were shooting Ant-Man in San Pedro, which obviously that’s not going to be set in New York, but the scene that they were shooting was him at a coffee shop, walking down the street, like to jaunty music and everyone’s like looking at him and waving at him and saying hi. So I think that what we’re going to see in the next phase, which could be really interesting, especially because we know what has to happen before the X-Men come in, I think we might see a kind of acceptance of superheroes first, where you get this generation, okay, of Kamala, these kids who grew up with the heroes who see them as these celebrities, and you feel the closeness to them and feel like they’re not that far away from being able to be them. And then we will likely see something terrible happen once that has been established, that will change the way people see superheroes.


Jason Concepcion: Up next, huge Anthony Breznican feature in Vanity Fair on Star Wars and Disney Plus’s Star Wars Properties. Big cover feature, beautiful, sumptuous cover of the issue. This is the June issue of Vanity Fair. And it’s really it’s a great article. You read it online if you wish. Not a lot there, obviously, in terms of details, but a lot of good color and feel from the people involved about their particular excitement of being part of this. And also, you know, the kind of hoops you have to go through in order to maintain the secrecy of this. But I think the the comments that the part of the article that made the most impact on the Internet were comments by Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy about her experiences making solo and recasting characters. She says, in part, there should be moments along the way where you learn things. Now, it does seem so abundantly clear that we can’t do that. That being recasting characters, this seeming to suggest that we’re going to see a lot more of of deep thinking, classic legacy Star Wars characters if they should happen to appear in future Star Wars shows and or Star Wars features. You know, I think the season finale of Of The Mandalorian and the most recent season where we saw Mark Hamill’s face from the return of the Jedi days grafted onto another actor’s body. Your thoughts on this, Rosie? This is interesting. As as our producer Chris said, pretty interesting considering that the recasting of Obi-Wan for the prequels was is one of the most lauded and now just simply accepted recasts maybe in the history of movies, you know.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I think it’s a. I’m I’m actually like a big fan of Kathleen Kennedy, in general, and the choices she’s made. And a lot of this to me felt like an odd statement when you’re talking about it in the context of a show which features a character who was so popular when you recast him that you can now do a spin off show 20 years later, and that is Ewan McGregor is Obi-Wan Kenobi. I am an avowed believer that there are actually a ton of great stories that could be told with recast characters. I’m a huge fan of the Star Wars books. I was a big expanded Universe fan before and before that became, you know, legends. And I love the new stuff. And there, especially like Claudia Gray writes these really brilliant books about Star Wars, and there’s a wonderful book called Leia Princess of Alderaan about teenage Princess Leia. And she’s going on this kind of she has to complete this series of challenges before she can take on the role of princess. And that to me is just like I would love to see a teenager in that role making that show. And so this is kind of like a bummer to me, but I also understand where it comes from. I also think that in the case of Solo one, a movie I actually think is quite fun. And I think Alden did a great job. And but the truth is, nobody needed to see a young Han Solo movie because that already existed in the original movies. So I think it’s more of a problem of that specific movie and this specific notion of making that story than it actually being about people’s responses to to recasting. Like to me, I would love to see who they’d cast as Luke Skywalker. If they want to see him in The Mandalorian, you know, that to me is actually to me, it’s exciting to imagine new people taking on those roles, but I know that’s not how all fans feel. And I feel like I feel like it’s interesting and controversial because I feel like generally the Deepfake stuff is not beloved as good as it can get. I feel like there’s not a great contingent of fans who are like, Wow, that’s so cool.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, it’s one of those things where no matter how good it is and it is pretty good at times or even even really good at times, there’s never a moment, at least for me, where it doesn’t take you out of it a little bit.


Rosie Knight: It’s uncanny valley.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. It’s just something about the way the light hits the skin or whatever it is. Just feels, it feels weird in particular, now that they’re using the volume that kind of like live action set in which the background is a high res LCD screen so that they can actually put the actors in a physical space surrounded by the CG and stuff. It just creates this like a cacophony of light and reflection that feels discordant in some way. And I’ll say this for Solo, I actually think first of all, Solo is a better movie. I’ve said this for years. It’s a better movie than you remember. If you go back and watch it. It’s fun. Good. Yeah, it’s a fun film. I like it. I think Alden Ehrenreich is fine in it. I think mostly the issue that happened is, one, they change directors, right? Phil Lord and Chris Miller exited the project, Lord and Miller. And considering listen, judging by, oh, I don’t know Into the Spider-verse, I think we all would have loved to see what their version of a solo movie would have been had they been left alone. But whatever the issues were were that Ron Howard then took the reins, and then at a certain point during production there was that leak, I think it was in The Hollywood Reporter. That story about the production of Solo, where it was, where it was stated that, you know, production, they weren’t happy with what Ehrenreich was doing and that they had brought him in an acting coach. And I think one of the snippets from the story is like hiring a coach is not unusual. Hiring one late this late in production is I think that when that appeared that cut Alden’s legs out from under that that like negated any potential that that movie had or he had to like, have a blank slate in which to to perform and be taken on his own merits. I think that really, really damaged the movie significantly. I think he’s fine. I don’t think it’s like a terrible movie by any means. And I think furthermore, I think that and I would hope that. Star Wars, like Star Wars, it seems, learns a lesson every time they release a movie. You know what I mean? Whether it’s like what segment of the fandom to not amplify and listen to and how not to respond to, to criticism and etc.. But I, I would hope that if they did decide to recast, they would just do things in a much more and a much more thoughtful way and also not allow stories about acting coaches to get out. Because, you know, it makes perfect sense that if you’re portraying an iconic character, you know, that you maybe would want some help with it.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I’ve seen Hail, Caesar, which Alden is like so, which is the Coen brothers movie, and Alden is so good a that.


Jason Concepcion: Would that it were so, would that it were so simple would that it would.


Rosie Knight: I quoted that so much of my house like he’s a really brilliant actor I truly believe like I said, I think you’re absolutely right. And I also believe it’s to do with like what stories we need to see. We have seen 20 something Han Solo. It’s in the original movies. Yeah, but when it comes to recasting, it’s like, how are you going to tell? How is it going to be additive, you know? So yeah, I hope that the future of Star Wars is one, new stories. We have so many brilliant ones with all the books and everything. Two, I hope that there is a maybe after the success of Obi Wan, fingers crossed, there will be a reconsideration of that, seeing as we’ll have to recast characters in Hayden and Ewan. So yeah, fingers crossed. I thought it was interesting. But you know what? Those Vanity Fair articles are always full of very beautiful Annie Liebowitz photography. And that’s I still have My Force Awakens one I there’s always a nice a nice little distraction.


Jason Concepcion: Up next, Disney Plus has released a watch list for Kenobi.


Rosie Knight: Shocking.


Jason Concepcion: Which you know, again, that the Obi-Wan Kenobi is coming out Friday, May 27th with the same exact day that this episode is coming out. We haven’t seen it, but the the the watch list is super interesting. It is as follows The Phantom Menace.


Rosie Knight: Of course.


Jason Concepcion: Attack of the Clones. The Clone Wars movie. Parentheses, the lowest rated Star Wars property on Rotten Tomatoes at 18% of all time. The Clone Wars Season two, episodes 12 to 16. The Clone Wars Season four, episodes 15 to 18. The Clone Wars Season five, episodes 14 to 16. Revenge of the Sith. And then, of course, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Super interesting list. Very Mandalore. Heavy. Your thoughts?


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I think we were both so we’d, we thought that we would try and do some kind of primer, right?  And this definitely wouldn’t have been the stuff that I would have selected. Not because it’s bad. I mean, these are really good. I was rewatching this list before the podcast, but it’s really dense, bureaucratic Attack of the Clones style prequels like it’s Obi-Wan and Mandalore and politics.


Jason Concepcion: It’s a lot of politics.


Rosie Knight: Of the Galaxy and I found that really interesting and there is a very heavy focus on Satine who in the show is established as Obi-Wan is kind of like star crossed one true love and then Canon is is the only person that he’s kind of had that those feelings for.


Jason Concepcion: They absolutely yeah they absolutely fucked at some point in time.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely. No question.


Jason Concepcion: 100 million, billion percent. But yes, that happened.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, like it’s obvious. And yeah, I found it really interesting. My my gut feeling says, watch these episodes. I mean, honestly, if I know it’s you’re going to be listening to this when the episode is out. But if you have not watched Clone Wars and you have not watched Rebels, they are so worthwhile and they are so fun. And Clone Wars especially is so key to why Obi-Wan even exists. Because it built out the character so much and it built out his relationship with Anakin and that kind of passion that fans have for that pairing, whether it’s as a ship or whether it’s as a friendship, really, a lot of it comes from this show. So I thought these were really interesting choices. You should definitely watch them because how rare is it that Disney usually this is stuff that we cobble together ourselves, whether it’s Easter eggs or theories or watch lists. It’s very rare for Disney or any of these places to put out a list and say, this is what you need to know. So I think it’s really interesting and I think that from watching them again today, these are going to be more like touch points and references that may shape where we meet Obi-Wan in the show.


Jason Concepcion: Here’s what I was surprised by. Obviously, like Clone Wars went on for eight seasons, you know, 20 plus episodes per season. They could have picked any arc of Obi-Wan stuff and they picked the stuff, specifically dealing for the most part with his relationship with the the dutchess, Satine, the peacenik leader of Mandalore, in their post kind of like warrior days who is trying to maintain this this neutrality for the planet and was resisted the whole way by the terrorist organization deathwatch and their supporters and the separatist movement most most notably Count Dooku. And I was surprised, for one, that there wasn’t like no Darth Maul death scene from rebels. No Maul. Like Maul is such was like such a foil for Obi-Wan and, and to not get a lot of that I think it tells us a lot. I think it makes sense when you think about it that we already have The Mandalorian show. And so, hmm, I did expect to see a little bit more Maul content. We do see Maul towards the end of that that Mandalore arc where R.I.P. spoiler. He does kill the Duchess Satine, but I expected to see more of him. I expected to see. I was kind of a little surprised that we didn’t see Rebels Season three Episode 20 something where again, Splinter was a kid. Obi-Wan Kenobi kills Darth Maul. Mm hmm. And of course, you know, it was been through The Mandalorian show. We came to understand that the covert was essentially like an offshoot of Death Watch, like it was the fanatics of Death Watch that, like, helped preserve, like, Mandalorian culture. So, like, getting a story from the other side of that, from the more from the, from the forces that were trying to pull Mandalore into a more peaceful mode of, of existence is, I think, really interesting. I think clearly this show is a big emotional generator of this show is going to be Obi-Wan still carrying a flame for the Duchess Satine. The whole Mandalorian aspect of it, I think is going to be really is going to be really interesting. That’s the part of it that really stood out to me.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I kind of somehow, I guess because of the. The massive relevance of the prequels and the kind of cultural space that they hold, both as the way that they were responded to when they came out and how that kind of revered now and the whole generation who grew up with them. I sort of hadn’t really even comprehended in my mind that this, like every other live action Star Wars show so far, would be built around or so heavily connected to The Mandalorian. And this is the first thing that has given me that realization of like, Oh, I don’t think this is going to be. They keep saying it’s the most cinematic, it’s the most like a movie, it’s the least serialized. The Mandalorian we’ve always shot at Book of Boba Fett, same thing they do that great serialized storytelling, the kind of storytelling that influenced Star Wars and George Lucas. But this is the cinematic one, and I thought that would mean that it would maybe be separate and it was going to be really focused on this Obi-Wan’s journey. Obi-Wan as a solo kind of, you know, lost soul, like keeping an eye on Luke dealing with his past. But I think it’s actually going to be way more connected to The Mandalorian and kind of those we’ve met that, like you said, we’ve essentially met The Death Watch. Like these are not coincidences that these are here. And I think you’re really right. I also think that something that’s going to be really key in the Obi-Wan and Anakin relationship, whatever that looks like in this series, is going to be that fact that Obi-Wan was in love with Satine and he was the one who told Anakin, You can’t do this, it’s going to end everything Jedis can’t love. I think that after seeing this list, I think that is going to be an extra layer of complexity.


Jason Concepcion: I like that a lot.


Rosie Knight: Anguish between them.


Jason Concepcion: I think that that’s a great that’s a great point, that Obi-Wan’s own guilt about selling this line, about, you know, remaining detached and, you know, the Jedi way of like, pushing all emotion and attachment aside that he’s, and rightfully so, would probably feel pretty guilty about saying that to Anakin, considering that he’s was carrying this torch for Satine for his whole life and then, you know, like that’s a great part of I think it’s episodes 12 and 16 from season two, which is here on this list, is that moment where I think they’re in there on I believe it’s when they’re transporting Satine back to Coruscant because she’s going to make the peace speech, right. And they’re in the elevator. And then it’s so funny whenever Satine and Obi-Wan are together because they’re just like bickering, like old lovers. They truly are like, well, look at you. You’re you’re do you you preach peace, but you’re actually a warrior and you’re involved in war. Yeah, well, I’m trying to stop the war. And then just like doing this back and forth and back and forth and Anakin like having watched this realizes like, oh, my God, hold on a second. You’re in love with Satine, aren’t you? It’s a great moment, and I think that that’s a great pull. Like that would make a lot of sense. If I’m Obi-Wan, I would feel terrible about that. And here I am preaching this thing that I can’t even hold myself up to.


Rosie Knight: And I think something that makes The Clone Wars so effective. And the thing that definitely convinced me really to get into it was catching like a random episode that really dealt with this stuff is like the getting to learn the interior motivations and emotional strife behind Anakin’s existence and kind of how he could turn to the dark side. And this notion of of destiny and free will is so deep. Like there are episodes of The Clone Wars where you’re like, this is a kid’s show and there’s episodes when you watch it and you’re just like, I am going to die. Like, this is heartbreaking.


Jason Concepcion: It is tremendously sad how everyone in Anakin’s life essentially fails him at every turn. The Jedi fail him at every turn. Obi-Wan, despite Obi-Wan’s like best intentions and and and real wisdom absolutely fails. And again, at every turn, they completely miss the manipulation by Palpatine. They miss, like, everything. And the whole time, like, here again is Obi-Wan deeply in love with this really remarkable woman who is risking her life every day to try and bring her people out of its warlike past. And here he is, like completely, obviously, to anyone who is looking at them in love with her. And yet he’s telling his pat on, hey, yeah, you we’ve got to detach. You can’t do you like that? You know, you can’t you can’t have it in your life. You need to push it away. P.S. I’m a I’m, you know, part of the security detail for my for my lifelong love. I’m traveling with her back to Coruscant.


Rosie Knight: It’s a that sounds familiar to you, Anakin? Is something you can relate to?


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. As soon as we arrived, you know, on Mandalore, we went on a walk through the park together. P.S. You have to detach from every. It’s like, come on, man.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. I mean, I always like, this is not on their list, right? But I think about this episode so much and I feel like if they can bring even the tiniest bit of the gravitas and like heartbreak, it’s the 17th episode of the third season, which is called Ghosts of Mortis. And it’s where the Jedi is, like, stranded on Mortis and Anakin like, sees his future as Darth Vader and he’s, like, broken by it. And the son, it’s the, it’s the son and the father and and. And then he essentially has his memory wiped and he has to go back to living, not knowing. And I think about that all the time. And that was the episode where I was like, I randomly caught it on TV and I was like, okay, I need to watch this show. This is like gut punch TV, especially if you care about these characters. And I really hope, with The Clone Wars being something that they’re pointing people towards, I just really hope that they’re going to be able to bring that kind of emotional heft to their show, because that’s one of the great things about longer format storytelling and TV is you can kind of have these, these these explorations of these characters who are often just very archetypal, like, you know, Darth Vader. Yeah. And and Anakin. You know, we didn’t get, we got to know a little bit about him in the prequels, but not so much. A lot of what people love comes from these expanded shows, from the books, from, you know, the kind of fan love that keeps these characters alive. Even Dave Filoni, he’s a fan. You know, that’s that’s how this stuff gets made.


Jason Concepcion: So I pitched this in Pre-Pro and now I’m going to say it here. With the caveat, knowing that this will never happen, I think that they should reboot the prequels. I think that they should do that.


Rosie Knight: I love this idea.


Jason Concepcion: I think they should do them again. You take all the emotional depth explored in Clone Wars and Rebels. You take all those lessons learned and all the extra Star Wars stuff that has come out in the intervening years that adds to the richness of the characters of Anakin and Obi-Wan and even Yoda and everybody else in Palpatine. But you take out all the racist stuff, right?


Rosie Knight: Well, the anti-Semitism is gone.


Jason Concepcion: All the anti-Semitism, all the fucking trade federation shit, all that stuff you throw that you did, the Jar Jar Binks awfulness, you keep him as a character if you want. But like but throw out the kind of, like the really terrible racist stuff, right. You have massive advances in CGI technology have taken place in the in the intervening three decades. Right. And and and you reboot them and you do them again. I think it’s like, listen, it won’t happen, but it would be fucking great. Like they would be. I think you could make them legitimately great. They are of course, these prequels are beloved because for a lot of people.


Rosie Knight: That was their Star Wars.


Jason Concepcion: That was their Star Wars. Right. And they’re beloved in a very interesting way. And certainly the Clone Wars helped with that. But I think you can make them like legitimately, heartbreakingly, like a real Star Wars space tragedy. That’s great storytelling. Like, I think it could really be great if they did it.


Rosie Knight: If you’d have told most people ten years ago, maybe five years ago, yeah, probably ten years ago that they were going to be making an Obi-Wan, Anakin show with Hayden and Ewan McGregor, most people wouldn’t have believed you. We’re in the new


Jason Concepcion: They would have been like this is a joke. Yeah this is a joke.


Rosie Knight: This is untrue. This is not going to happen. So I don’t think we’re that far off. I think that these stories and this era is is very ripe for the picking. And we know how much familiarity breeds, like corporate excitement when it comes to IP. So I don’t think we’re that far off. I mean, I love this era. I think it’s like. It’s almost like George Lucas at his most, un….like his least rained in like he was just allowed to do whatever he wanted. And in some places that was really bad, like the aforementioned racism and anti-Semitism that we want to see gone. But like, I will never stop respecting the man for just, like, being, like, I love bureaucracy. Like, yes, I’m like space bureaucracy. And honestly.


Jason Concepcion: Like, yeah.


Rosie Knight: You know what that is? Has become a very big part of the law. We know him, prestige TV as well. Think about a Game of Thrones. There’s a lot of bureaucracy in Game of Thrones.


Jason Concepcion: I gotta say the death of democracy, whether in space, you know, like many, many, many, many, many millennia ago or in a fantasy universe is pretty germane right now. So I would love to see that. And I think it would be a I think it’d be so fun if they do it again. Okay. Up next, The Airlock.




Jason Concepcion: All aboard, the Goat Boat folks, get aboard. Tooth and Asher is here. Tooth Grinder is here and today we will diving into the Thor Love and Thunder trailer, priming you for what to expect as we enter, as we fly deeper into cosmic Marvel territory. Cosmic god territory. And and of course, we’ll be talking about some of those cosmic characters that are that are referenced in the trailer. And plus, since we’re we’re in a fantastic mood, seeing as we are almost all the way back from our tussle with the novel coronavirus, COVID 19. Rosie and I are going to give you our reactions on the first two episodes of Miss Marvel in a completely non spoiler fashion. First Love and Thunder. The trailer.


Kids get the popcorn now. Let me tell you the story of the Space Viking Thor Odinson. He was no ordinary man. He was a god. After saving planet Earth for the 500th time, Thor set off on a new journey when he got in shape, he went from dad bod to god-bod. And after all that year, he reclaimed his title as the one and only Thor. Oh, spoke too soon, Jane.


Jason Concepcion: Okay. So first off, what did you think of the trailer before we dive into the kind of some of the details of the stuff that we that we see  their in.


Rosie Knight: I love this trailer. I’m like I’m like a Thor Ragnarok superstan. That to me is


Jason Concepcion: Yes.


Rosie Knight: One of the best recontextualizing of a character ever. One of the best outrageous, the sequel in a franchise that just somehow, like, completely reinvigorates the character. I and I, I love how much this kind of leans into the van art of it all. Like, it’s, you know, the the dulcet tones of, like, orchestral, sweet child of mine are in the background, and he’s wearing his he’s wearing his strongest avenger, you know, trucker cap while he’s exercising with Souter’s chains. Like I, I just the vibes are immaculate.


Jason Concepcion: Let’s go through it. So we open with Thor meditating and you can see, like to the two humanoid creatures like in, in in profiling shadow, like walking up to his little meditation tree. Korg is there with a bunch of locals. Now, this is probably The Planet, the movie version of the Planet Indigarr, which is the planet that we open on in Thor, God of Thunder. Jason Aaron’s opening to this arc in the comics. They are a planet of really like almost innocent aliens who worship these gods the Sky Lords and I don’t know how Thor comes here or why Korg is with him, but it feels like that’s what this is. This is like an opening of  God of Thunder.


Rosie Knight: And it seems like in a moment in the trailer that kind of comes up quite quickly. He throws his duster off on this planet and he seems to be with the guardians and it looks like it’s the same planet. So I think this is going to be


Jason Concepcion: Yes, I agree.


Rosie Knight: They probably arrive with the guardians or he goes there with the guardians and Korg meets him there. And it kind of this trailer hints to me that the Guardians will be the opening part of this movie.


Jason Concepcion: I agree. I completely agree with you. I think it’s going to be. I think it’s going to be 5 minutes or so. And then we leave the Guardians. Something is going to happen. Thor’s going to find something. Probably, you know, murder gods. Right. And then he’s going to say, I’ve got to go back to New Asgard, I’ve got to go back to Earth to, you know, check in there. I’ve been away for however long that senior’s talking about, so I think we’re probably still on Indigarr. You see, the he’s fighting with the Guardians is all sorts of like laser shots coming in. So they’re not fighting Gorr at this point in time.


Rosie Knight: I think they’re kind of like


Jason Concepcion: What do you do you think they’re fighting?


Rosie Knight: You know, I think that kind of like a heroes  for hire, like cosmic Ghostbusters. I think they are they’re less


Jason Concepcion: A-Team, A-Team in space, kind of like thing.


Rosie Knight: I think that that I think that Thor’s presence has probably made them a little less criminally inclined and also post the kind of carnage and then second chance of Endgame. I think that the Guardians will kind of be going around, and I think that we will have the term Asgardians of the Galaxy, which was kind of the comic books joke of Thor joining them. And I think like we will probably see him and them in a montage probably to some hair metal and they’re like kind of helping different people. Thor is get going from, as they call it in the trailer dad bod to God bod and he’s doing his training. I think we’ll see some kind of montage and it will end with them on this planet that could be in Indigarr and that will kind of be where the the meat of the story actually begins.


Jason Concepcion: I should add that that that during those opening Indigarr scenes, when Thor throws off his jacket, he’s wearing like the Erik Masterson Thor, like he’s sick. Yeah. What certainly appears to be the Thunderstrike outfit. And we mentioned him before, Erik Thunderstrike is Erik Masterson, who’s like an architect, a New York based architect. He was also blonde and also very tall, also buff


Rosie Knight: Yeah


Jason Concepcion: Who, it turned out was worthy of lifting the oniers and so wielded the power of Thor for a certain part of time during Roger Stern’s run on The Avengers. And it’s meant every I’d mentioned this before, but every issue is really funny of The Avengers during this time, because it’s like there’s always that thought bubble where, you know, Rochester needs to remind the audience, like, you know, somebody will say, Oh, Thor, remember that time back on Asgard? And then there would be this little thought bubble where Thunderstrike is like “they all think I’m Thor, but really, I’m Erik Masterson, mild mannered architect”, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Rosie Knight: And he first debuts Liz like Thunderstrike in Thor 391, which was in 1988. But I will say the character design, it’s Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz. And Ron Frenz character design is so extremely nineties like he was so ahead of the cuff and they are really leaning into that here like something I think is really interesting that I don’t even think we’ve talked about because we’ve talked about Thor, God of Thunder, a lot as I was reading it. And we know that Gorr, the God Butcher, is is a big part of that. But something that’s really interesting in that story that I feel like comes across in this trailer in a kind of unexpected way. In that story, we learn that there’s three different versions of Thor, and they’re all fighting Gorr, the God Butcher, in their own timeline kind of thing, right?


Jason Concepcion: King, King Thor, regular Thor. And then the young, impetuous Thor.


Rosie Knight: And something I think is really interesting is that in these trailers we have seen different versions of Thor. Now it’s all the same timeline.


Jason Concepcion: Ive’ noticed that too as well.


Rosie Knight: But we are seeing yeah, we are seeing an Eric Masterson style Thor. We see him in his battle armor, which we get to see his mask for for the first time. We’re also seeing Jane as Thor, and I hope that we’ll probably see like a Beta Ray Bill, who’s a cosmic alien who helped Maul, you know, I think that there’s something to this notion of even in this trailer that Korg’s voiceover you know he says he got his God bod back and he was going to reclaim Mjolnir and his place is the one and only Thor. And then he goes, spoke too soon and Jane is there. So I think that while we’re not going to see necessarily three. Odin sons. I think that we are. This is all about the notion of like who is Thor and different versions of Thor, whether it’s Jane, whether it’s maybe Valkyrie, maybe it’s Beta Ray, Bill, maybe it’s this Erik Masterson iteration. I think the notion of many different Thors and the idea of who Thor is and what Thor is is going to really play into this movie in a way that kind of leans into that.


Jason Concepcion: Now, you mentioned that Thor armor from the comics. I forget. I want to say it’s like it’s like 400 or three something. Yeah. So that actually the Thor battle armor, Thor had to wear that and it is very ninties.


Rosie Knight: 378. Very impressive.


Jason Concepcion: 378. So he had to wear that because Hela had like cursed him and his bones became like super, super brittle.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, baby.


Jason Concepcion: Like, you could just like, hit him and then he’d break his bones. And so he was like, always in pain. So he had to have this armor forged so that he could hold that in. It’ll be interesting to see if that is part of it. I might. My thought is that Thor is like had to has to go to some. Yeah. I wonder why he forges it, but it’ll be interesting to see. I wonder if it’s like he has to go to some kind of ceremony. Some, like, special because. Because he has to go back to new Asgard. And there is a scene in there where it seems like they’re at either a museum opening or some kind of ceremony with a bunch of other humans around. And I wonder. And he’s wearing the armor. Yes. I wonder if it’s like somewhat ceremonial.


Rosie Knight: So I think this is this is out there. I don’t know if it’s going to be true, but one thing we know about the MCU is they love to tie something back to Tony. Right? They love that guy, Robert Downey, Jr. MCU wouldn’t exist without him. Tony Stark. MCU wouldn’t exist without him. In the comics, Thor gets the idea to build the armor because Tony makes him like a cast when his arm breaks. And the battle armor is kind of inspired by slash similar to, and I wonder if, you know, Thor has the hat that says, you know, Strongest Avenger and his his dream was to like be taken seriously by Tony and for Tony to see him as this kind of important part of the team. I wonder if part of his journey will be finding that Tony made him a prototype armor. I feel like that. I would love it to be something more cosmic, but I feel like there’s there’s some the fact that Tony is connected to it in the comics and the MCU loves Tony and everyone’s kind of have that Tony journey. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least part of it is connected back to or Tony was the one who found it. And we also see we see what looks like, a kind of like dead star. So I do wonder if we’ll maybe go back to the to the the the heart of the star where he forged Stormbreaker, at some point as well. I think those are the kind of big bits.


Jason Concepcion: So after that kind of opening battle scene with that with the Guardians, we go to New Asgard and it’s clear New Asgard is doing great. It’s doing fucking great. There’s a golf course, there’s three like the Viking cruise line ships are docked there and it’s very clear that like New Asgard is for whatever else has been going on, of course that the people have been through, through some real tragedies in recent MCU movies. But now, despite that being the case, they are clearly making a lot of money from tourism.


Rosie Knight: King Valkyrie’s killing it?


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, absolutely killing it. We get that clip that you mentioned with Thor, with the strongest Avenger, like knock off hat. Yeah, training with the chains. Now, here’s a thing that’s out there. You mentioned that maybe that Surtur, there is like an Internet rumor going out there that it could be a watcher. Like maybe that’s that’s it.


Rosie Knight: The definitely the the the I assume that because of Marvel and Easter eggs, it’s probably Surtur’s chains. But I do think that the dead body that we see does not look like him. And it has a very different shaped face. And that would be really interesting if it was a watcher. There’s a lot I think that can be a watcher. We can lose a few.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, we can lose it. There are many, many watchers. I wonder if do you think that that person because when I see like chains and torture, I think Gorr’s victims. I wonder if it’s like Thor’s found this, and.


Rosie Knight: Maybe that’s what inspires him.


Jason Concepcion: This is one of Gorr’s early victims. Yeah, it either inspires him or he later realizes, Oh, that’s what that was.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: I think that Gorr has been at this a while.


Rosie Knight: I think you’re right. I think maybe the moment that we saw in the first trailer that was so impactful, that was taken from inside Rubix. Ah, directly. Maybe that’s the moment when Thor starts putting it together that this isn’t a one off thing, but in the moment that’s more of like a funny. He’s just training and yeah, there’s skeletons because you know, in the beginning of Ragnarok he’s just chillin with a skeleton, like that’s just what it is. And then he starts putting that together. I think that’s really clever.


Jason Concepcion: And now if that is a watcher. It also caused, you know, just the fact that we’re dealing with a movie where Jane Foster, as Thor, calls into mind original sin, which I think we’ve mentioned before, which is that the whodunit kind of Marvel Comics arc from five or six years back where the watcher is murdered and no one knows who done it. I’m not going to spoil whodunit, but at the end of that arc, there is another mystery in which something is whispered into Thor’s ear, and all of a sudden that whatever that is, that secret, it makes Thor unworthy. And he can’t he can’t hold Mjolnir near any more. And that’s essentially how Jane comes into possession of it. So that could be interesting to see then. Okay. So then we have a scene of Jane riding either Valkyrie’s horse or maybe she gets one now. Maybe she has her own Valkyrie horse now, which I think in the comics is called Mr. Horse. I forget what.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: And then she crashes through the, the ceiling of a temple on some, some world somewhere. And you have a theory on what this world could possibly be. And then in that kind of like secret chamber, we see statues of several cosmic deeds. We see.


Rosie Knight: Yes.


Jason Concepcion: A watcher, probably Uatu. We could guess it’s Uatu, the watcher. We see the three headed, three faced rather living tribunal. We see the Mistress Death, who is of course, Thanos’ girlfriend.


Rosie Knight: Yeah that’s a that’s a big like to see death in a MCU thing that one is like that’s huge for for fans of the Jim Starlin, Thanos, stuff and also just like for Thanos fans in general death is that’s the major change that they they made in the in the Infinity War saga.


Jason Concepcion: And then Infinity on the end and then either Ian or Eternity next to Infinity, you know. If it’s Eternity, it makes sense because Eternity and  Infinity are brother and sister. And if it’s Ian. It kind of makes sense because Ian, you know, is a huge, very ancient cosmic deity who is directly related to Quasar and


Rosie Knight: Yeah and he.


Jason Concepcion: The quantum bands and current Ms. Marvel.


Rosie Knight: He created the quantum bands so that would make sense to have it be Ian or Epoch. Both of them have this kind of like Epoch is his door and and he created yeah, he created the quantum bands and Epoch was the one who was took over and was able to bestow it upon the, you know, the protectors of the universe. So it would be interest. This is a very interesting collection of characters.


Jason Concepcion: Let’s discuss these cosmic deities. So we’ve been dealing a lot with whether it’s, you know, Moon Knight, previously previous Thor films. We’ve been dealing a lot with Marvel Gods. Marvel deities, cosmic deities are like the gods of the gods. Mm hmm. That kind of. So you have Uatu who is not really a god is just kind of like a cosmic peeper whose job it is.


Rosie Knight: Cosmic voyeur.


Jason Concepcion: to cosmic voyeur, whose job is to, like, watch everything that happens in their particular realm of of the galaxy and the universe. The Living Tribunal. Very interesting cosmic deity. It basically judges.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, he’s a judge. He’s a judgey guy. Just be judging, judging at all times.


Jason Concepcion: He’s judging, you know, whether something is in balance or not and should be part of the cosmos.


Rosie Knight: That to me seems like a really interesting inclusion because at the end of everyone’s favorite Marvel movie, Eternals, the yes, the Arishem, you know, the Celestials, they kind of like warned the humans. They warned the Eternals that somebody was judgment was coming, that somebody cosmic was coming to judge Earth to see whether or not it was worth them killing a Celestial and saving humanity. I think that the Living Tribunal would be a very choice option for that. There’s also the notion that that could be a way of introducing like a Galactus or something like that as basically a punishment or a judgment on humans. But yeah, but the fact that these characters are here is it feels like more than an Easter egg.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, Mistress Death, of course, was iconic. And if you think back to our original Avengers movie, the stinger of that is the reveal that, you know, Thanos is behind all of this and Thanos is. Lackey says, you know, to the humans they are powerful. But, you know, to attempt to go against them is to court death. And that was the court death line was our signal that, oh, shit, this is Thanos. Because in the comics, everything Thanos does, he does because he is being brutally friendzoned by death, and he’s just trying to impress her all the time.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, he wants to impress her. And how better to impress Death and to kill half of the living creatures. That’s the thing in the comics. This is not like, oh, it’s not like a weird eco fascist like that. Everyone will survive if we kill half of the world. No, this is no like. Oh, couldn’t he just use the reality gem to make some more potatoes? No, he just did it because he loves Death. He loves Death doesn’t kill a lot of people. So Death will be impressed. Alas, she is rarely ever impressed.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, she’s rarely, rarely, ever. And then finally, either Ian, Eternity or Infinity. Eternity and Infinity are the easiest. They’re brother and sister. And they’re just basically like the manifestations of different kinds of Infinity. Eternity is basically everything in the universe, as a person.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, like time, space, matter, energy, like everything. And. And it’s really. These are really like abstract.


Jason Concepcion: It’s incredibly abstract. And don’t worry of it’s weird, folks, because believe me, it is weird. And when they appear in the comics, it’s always like. A drizzle of them, because if you think too hard about it, you’re like, This is super weird.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, this is more like this. Is that stuff where comics can be so fantastical and where a lot of this stuff is not really codified in like Canon or anything. It’s more just like these are weird things that these is sprinkled in to make writing these comics every single week more exciting for them, more strange, more experimental. And so a lot of times when we’re talking about this stuff, we’re talking about characters who have appeared in a few things or who’s whose canon kind of stretches and changes and is absolutely abstract. And yeah, so and in the comics like Infinity is really interesting. Google them because this is an or this is an audio experience, but Infinity has like an outrageously sick character design and really weird but in some versions like the the quantum bands actually like tap into Infinity. So there’s kind of all these different. It feels like it’s not a coincidence that this trailer has this really big cinematic shot of these cosmic entities, which is, I believe, what they in the comics, they usually call them cosmic beings. But I think that the collector at some point calls them cosmic entities in the MCU. So it’s kind of the Infinity Gems, vases, Infinity Stones. So I don’t think it’s a I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’re seeing these cosmic entities. In a movie that is essentially going to come out a month after Miss Marvel debuts.


Jason Concepcion: I agree with you.


Rosie Knight: And we know that just from the trailers and what we’ve seen so far of the powers that we’ve discussed before, that she has these kind of gantlets that seem like they could be related to or inspired by the quantum bands and and in the trailer she even say say how does it feel? And she says cosmic. So, you know, this notion of the Marvel cosmic is is becoming more and more interesting. The question is, in the context of seeing this in the Thor trailer and knowing that Gorr, the God Butcher, who we meet for the first time in this trailer and is terrifying. Yeah. Are these other statues of these deities because their dead? Has Gorr killed them? Are these, are these deities who existed so long ago that other gods now worship them? Like, that’s what I find really interesting.


Jason Concepcion: Well, I found myself wondering, like, where this place that Jane finds herself is. Because, you know, if you had texted us that. Maybe it’s cronuts, which is this like hidden realm beyond space, beyond time. That is like the it’s basically like the temple of the origin of like the universe.


Rosie Knight: And it’s in Thor, God of Thunder, our favorite referring to arc Jason Aron and Esad again. Esad Rubic  and it plays a major part in that. But that would be like if if that’s what this is, it would be. It would be an expansion and different vision because in there the generic kind of time gods live there and they get killed by Gorr. And then he uses their blood to travel to a different timeline to build this weapon, the god bomb.


Jason Concepcion: The god bomb.


Rosie Knight: So, so in that version. Yeah. I think if this was the MCU adapting that and maybe that’s why Jane is there, then it could be something along the lines of kind of like a situation where it’s like. The time gods may be worshiped the cosmic deities. And that’s why they’re there.


Jason Concepcion: I like that.


Rosie Knight: You know, something like that.


Jason Concepcion: So, yeah.


Rosie Knight: So we’re like, Taika has done a great job of establishing through production design, the existence of characters that he obviously really cares about. So like in Thor Ragnarok on the Planet, where that was essentially like the the kind of World War Hulk, like Planet. Yeah. The Sakaar on that planet, there was this huge kind of totem. And one of the faces that was translated there that had been, like kind of sculpted was Beta Ray Bill. So in that way, I really like the notion that you can kind of introduce these characters into existence by being like other people worship them. And then whether or not we get to truly explore who they are I mean, I think that Death being here is a big deal because I am truly a believer that they’re going to resurrect Thanos and if they do it, Death being a part of it, Death resurrecting him potentially. I think it just makes so much sense, especially with Adam Warlock about to appear. This is going to be the most cosmic phase of the MCU.


Jason Concepcion: I agree with you on that. Okay. So then we get some battle scene on the streets of New Asgard. We get to see Jane and Thor back together. Very interesting note here. He’s like. She’s like, How long’s it been? And clearly, like, Thor has been out in space, like, doing stuff for for years. She’s like, it’s always been like some, like, three years. And he’s like, No, it’s been eight and a half. Five year difference, suggesting Jane, Jane was blipped. Right. Right. That’s like that’s the only way it makes sense. Okay. So I agree with that. Then we get the scene of what is either Olympus or like Omnipotence City from from Jason Aaron’s run on Thor. Omnipotence City is this like a meeting place in the cosmos where like all the gods, like, come and hang out and they talk about stuff that’s happening.


Rosie Knight: And we do see a bit later on in the final, like kind of stinger, which has like a comedic, great comedic moment that we’ll get to. We do see there, that it looks like. There are seats for multiple different gods, whether or not that’s different gods from different spaces or if it’s just the pantheon of Greek gods. It’s interesting to kind of know. I think you could really be on to something there.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Now, this is a staple of Thor comics. Throughout the years, this like Council of God heads where all of different gods from all the different world cultures get together, talk about shit. I would imagine if there is like a mad alien butcher running around with a nuclear sword killing gods all through the timeline that the gods would need to get together and talk it out. So that’s probably what that is. Yeah. You know.


Rosie Knight: I actually, you know what I think as well, like, so we kind of see that the Greek, the Zeus, at least in this is kind of a comedic figure, which is very realistic to the mythology. But also like I want we saw in Empire magazine, I believe, released an image of Jane Foster, Valkyrie and a woman who looked like Bast sitting in front. Yeah. I wonder if they go to the gods, to the infinite embassy, to the omnipotent space, and in the hopes of finding that serious council. And I wonder if their too bachanal and too kind of like lax like they want to do a series. And I wonder if we see. My gut says Zeus is not long for this world. I think that there is going to be a God massacre. And I wonder if Jane and Valkyrae and Bast have to create their own more serious. We’re going to do something about it version.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, I think however they arrived there on the, you know, on the Goat Boat, it’s not exactly planned because they crashed through like the ceiling of it. Yeah, I think you’re right, Zeus is, at the end of Fight, where we see Valkyrie, Jane and Thor fighting Gorr. Valkyrie is like wielding what look like Zeus’ lightning, his lightning spear and his like like lightning weaponry. The only thing that I can draw from that Zeus is dead. He is gone, because he’s. I can’t imagine Zeus being the type of guy we like to take my spear. Yeah. Have fun with that.


Rosie Knight: Oh, yeah. So something that we haven’t really talked about, but like we do get is so in all the the trailers and the promo images, we said, like, you can’t bring it up. This is a villain who doesn’t appear in the trailers, but this is a very Gorr heavy trailer.


Jason Concepcion: Yes.


Rosie Knight: So what did you think when you saw him?


Jason Concepcion: I loved it. I loved the design. I loved that you could see his face. Mm hmm. Maybe that is like from the early days of Gorr and that he evolves into this more like demonic thing. But I thought it was really chilling. We got a view of the necro sword, which was amazing for those of you who maybe haven’t heard us talk about this before. So the necro sword is is Gorr’s weapon. It is in Marvel canon, like the original symbiote, like venom came from this. Like, this is the thing that created venom. That created the creatures that would go on to be come carnage, etc., etc., etc.. And. I thought I thought he looked super scary.


Rosie Knight: He looks so scary and, like, really gross.


Jason Concepcion: Really gross which I like.


Rosie Knight: Something that people often say about Marvel movies and have said pretty much since the beginning is it’s hard to make like a great Marvel villain. And obviously I think Thanos is that is the contradiction to that bit that kind of gets the role like I think people but generally, you know, like I like the cartoony ness of a lot of the villains like Ultron and I even like Iron Man two. I love, you know, there is a I’m not a whiplash hater, but like this is a very different vibe like and Christian Bale is playing it Shakespearean like, yeah, you can show of him looking at the camera saying like, all gods must die. And it’s like chilling. And something that I think is really cool that I can’t I cannot wait to see how this translates. It feels so comicbooky, is it  looks like whenever Gorr kills a planet or he has a space that is entirely grayscale and everything there is black and white and that just looks so cool. And depending on when we see him fighting other people, sometimes they are also black and white, or sometimes they are in color and he is in black and white. And I’m really excited to see how that how that kind of comes across. And also something and I know I’m sorry, it’s always going back to the Eternals, but I didn’t I I’m sorry. It has to happen. I love this movie. Came back. I’m sorry. It is in the MCU. Guys, I’m sorry. Is it is likely that it could play a part, but something that I was when I was reading up on All Black The Necro Sword, the first symbiote. That was actually created by Knull, another character that we’ve talked about who’s like been very big in Marvel in the last couple of years. But they tempered the sword using like the that the power that came off of a dying celestial. So I just think that there is a version where the Celeste the death of the celestial at the end of Eternals could have been how Gorr suddenly has this sword. You know.


Jason Concepcion: I have a similar theory. I love this kind of. Sort of. So at the end of this trailer, we see this battle taking place on this like dead, desolate moon. Right? That’s either Kronux or some other place where, you know, in the comics, as you mentioned, like Gorr goes and enslaves a bunch of gods to build this God bomb, which is then going to set off who’s going to kill all the gods. We see it in the midst of this fight like Gorr shoved the necro sword down into that into the surface of this moon. I think the moon could be the God bomb. I think it’s the moon.


Rosie Knight: Oh, that is so sick. I love that.


Jason Concepcion: I think. I think it’s. Listen, this feels like another thing where I feel like probably going to be wrong. But I do wonder if the I think the moon could be the God bomb is that.


Rosie Knight: I love that because if you think about it as well just on like a basic scientific level and the number one way to decimate like a solar system and specifically a planet is to fuck with the moon, let alone if you actually make it into a legitimate weapon. That also could be really interesting because I think Uatu lives on the moon or a moon at some point. So maybe there is something that connected to like the death of a watcher and the moon. I mean, this is just so exciting. Like, how often do we get a trailer that has this much stuff that you can just break it down? Like it’s it’s so fun and that’s before. Like, there’s so much action in this trailer and so many fun nods and moments that you don’t even really like. We haven’t even really touched on just how good the character beats are, like Thor, seeing Jane and also like it could be a misdirect, but the, the trailer and one of the last things that we see in the trailer is Gorr says, you know, he’s looking really gross and he’s like got black stuff, like out his mouth. And he’s like, oh, you’re not like the other gods I’ve killed. You know, you have something worth fighting for. And we see what looks like Jane and Thor connecting like Pinky fingers.


Jason Concepcion: And that that actually like that. That. I felt a swell in my heart when I saw that. I’m like, yes.


Rosie Knight: I would love to see this have a romantic element to it or have that kind of at least the notion of like love being this really important part in a lot of comics. You know, love does save the day. Like that’s a big part of young Avengers like that can happen. And I would, Taika is the kind of person who I think, especially after watching like Our Flag Means Death. And and I think that he’s the kind of person who isn’t afraid to bring that element to these stories. And I think that Jane and Thor is a pairing that a lot of Marvel fans have really loved for a really long time. So it could be cool to see it go in that direction. But who knows? Maybe they’re just totem fingers because they’re friends. And Jane in Valkyrie will be gay, or maybe it’ll be a throuple. Who knows? Taika’s a wild man. I beleive in him.


Jason Concepcion: He is a wild man. And I got to say, I’m a little. I don’t want to put this bad juju out there, but I’m a little bit bad. And there’s going to be there’s gonna be a lot of guys that die. I’m a little worried about Valkyrie surviving this movie. A tiny bit.


Rosie Knight: I, I feel your fear. And you know what I have to say? I made shock horror. Before the Eternals came out. I made a ranking of the Eternals of who was going to survive. Right? And I was mostly absolutely wrong. And I. That movie changed my, the amount of trust that I put into these movies to keep characters alive, especially queer characters and people of color. So I’m hoping that Valkyrie does survive. She’s one of my all time fave characters. I was actually going to wear my Valkyrie t shirt, but it’s like a kids t shirt and it doesn’t really fit me. It’s really uncomfortable. I need to turn it into like a cool jacket patch. They made the romance between Thor and Jane. Seems so cute, and I am worried that that will be the tragic romance because of the nature of how Jane gets her powers in the comics and the the cancer storyline.


Jason Concepcion: I didn’t want to bring that into it, but I agree with you. That is also troubling also the fact that she’s riding the Valkyrie horse, which shouldn’t happen if it is Valkyrie’s horse. So there’s a lot of stuff. Yeah. That I’m concerned about. I hope it’s fine.


Rosie Knight: I want them all to survive. Don’t hurt my children, my good gay Marvel children. I’m sorry.


Jason Concepcion: I agree. Okay, let’s go quickly to we’ve now we got screeners for the first two episodes of Miss Marvel and we’ve watched them. And now we’re going to give our non spoiler, non spoiler, non spoilers zero spoilers just vibe, gut check, emotional reaction to this. Rosie, you go first.


Rosie Knight: I thought this show was so lovely. It reinvigorated my excitement in kind of new Marvel stuff. I thought the production and set design was spectacular. The cast is super funny and I loved the element of Kamala’s fans that they built in and the way they use it, I think it is they’ve teased it in the trailers, but the way they use it in the show is so engaging and it feels like a love letter to comics and how this stuff is. Even this stuff only exists because artists made beautiful artwork and comic books and then it could be adapted. So having a kind of artist at the center of this show.


Jason Concepcion: I love that too.


Rosie Knight: Oh, it was. I just thought it was so lovely and I’m really excited to see it feels very different. I know people say that about every Marvel show, but this to me feels decidedly different and I’ll be very interested to see how it lands.


Jason Concepcion: I love that too. I thought that creativity in the service, as you said, of fleshing out Kamala’s character is so fun and great. There is a tremendous energy here that feels youthful in a way that is of course natural to the character. And I thought that it just felt like I mean, this is going to sound hokey, but this is like I think this is going to be my favorite Disney Plus Marvel show. And and it just made me feel like, man, this is what I love about this is this energy, right here, is what I love about comics and the comic book stuff. That’s how I felt about it, you know? Because, like, you know. I never respond to the like MCU, DC Comics movies are for babies like discourse that’s out there like a lot, particularly from like the the cinephile like corners of the internet. But, this show made me reconnect in it, you know, like rediscover or find again, that feeling that I have when I really like I’m into a comic that I like, you know, like I think that, I think that running from the fact that like, comics are very often something you find like as a youth, as a youth, you know, as a young person. And the fact that like many people are still into it, despite the fact that they’ve grown into adulthood, I think like running from that part of it or framing it is like a negative to me is actually like really shitty because you know, as I think I’ve said, I’ve said numerous times like in different ways, like I feel like the lessons, the reason that people find comics often is like because they feel like about, like they are outside of their, the, the people that are growing up around , the neighborhood, they’re growing up around and they’re looking for a place in the world that comics gives them that. And I also feel like, you know, a lot of the questions that young people confront often through comics but in just in their lives, like it’s do people love me? Do I have friends? Like, am I good? Like, this show is going to be a lot about Kamala discovering if she’s good at anything and wondering, like, am I good and is there anything I’m good at? Like, that is such an important question that I think people carry with them through their entire life. Yeah. And this show, like, dives right into those really existential questions that people have when they’re young. That they continue to have and don’t admit throughout their entire life. And that’s what I loved about it was only two episodes, but it just had a tremendous energy and heart that I loved. And like the visual style is so appealing.


Rosie Knight: So appealing, and like the jewel tones, like everything about the palette is that the tone is in between like it feels very authentically young and cute, but also absolutely stylized and cool. And I just want to live in that world. And I think something that’s really nice about this, I feel like that will also really appeal to people who loved Hawk-Eye, even though I have to say it feels so different, which I thought that would be the one it’s most similar in tone to. But something I think people will really love is in the same way that Kate is a fan of, of the heroes and of Hawkeye. Kamala is even more of a fan of all different kinds of heroes. And so if you grew up with the MCU and if you love the MCU, even if you if you love the comics, amazing. But if you are a MCU fan, this is definitely a show that’s going to speak to you on that level. And I think that’s really lovely. I think there’s a lot of love for the comics in that, too. Not really to me. But I love the notion that people who love the MCU will be able to watch this and have that as like a relatable part of it. There’s I’m so excited to talk about this show properly when it comes out, because there’s just so much stuff our listeners are going to love.


Jason Concepcion: Well, that’s it for our show today. A big thank you to the number one co-host, Rosie Knight. Rosie, it was so great to do the show with you. What do you have to plug? Give us the plugs. What do you plugging? What do you got?


Rosie Knight: I okay. So you can find me writing articles at Nerdist, IGN, Polygon all those good places. I am on Instagram. Rosie Marx. That’s my only social media. M A R X. And this week I’m just going to it’s been a tough week. I love that we’ve been able to talk about all this amazing stuff. So I’m just going to plug the amazing notion and feeling and action of doing mutual aid. I would say, like, I live in the area where I live in an L.A. county. There are so many brilliant mutual aid organizations of neighbors who do brilliant things like filling up community fridges and.


Jason Concepcion: L.A. community fridges. Yeah, the best one of those.


Rosie Knight: Homemade meals where you can essentially like cook meals, and then you can either drop them off to somebody to take out to your homeless neighbors or you can drop them off yourself. And I follow some brilliant people on Instagram who if you follow me on there, you’ll be able to see them who do park lunches for unhoused people in L.A. And no matter where you live, whatever city, if you just search mutual aid, if you search on Instagram, you will find someone who is doing this work and you can either venmo them if you don’t have the energy or the scope or the time to go out or you can get involved. Our amazing friend and co-host SIG does mutual aid posted on his Instagram says another great resource. And I just think in these times when stuff is really tough yes it feels like you can’t do anything but actually doing something really small and making a difference to like one person or one or two people in your community is a really great way of making a much bigger difference than you realize. So that’s like that’s something that’s gotten me through the hard times and I feel really lucky that there’s so many amazing people doing that. And I’m sure that no matter where you live, there will be people in your area who are doing that, who need support, who would love to have you involved.


Jason Concepcion: Well said. Folks for everything that we do here. Check out our videos on Uncultured on the Uncultured YouTube channel. Of course, if you want to get a better idea of the things that we talk about, the references we make, etc., check the show notes in our listeners guide to X-ray Vision, where we provide more details on those things. Don’t forget to email us at to just tell us things that we should be watching. To give us Nerd Out pitches. To just talk to us about whatever thoughts you have, concerns you have, things you like, things you don’t like, etc. We love hearing from you. Don’t forget, catch the next episode on June 3rd. And we’ll see you next time. And oh, yeah, one more thing. Five star ratings. We want the five stars.


Rosie Knight: Five stars.


Jason Concepcion: If you count as many stars you want to give us on your hand. And there’s a finger left on the one hand or two fingers left. God forbid. That’s not enough. It’s got to be the whole hand worth of stars needs to be filled up in the five star ratings we love on folks. X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by the Vasilis Photopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video production support. Alex Reliford handles social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music. See you next time. Bye bye.