Ms. Marvel Premiere + Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep 4, Jurassic World Reactions & The Boys S3 Premiere | Crooked Media
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June 10, 2022
X-Ray Vision
Ms. Marvel Premiere + Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep 4, Jurassic World Reactions & The Boys S3 Premiere

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight go to AvengersCon! First in Previously On (2:31), Jason and Rosie discuss trailers for both Netflix’s Sandman and Black Adam, then give their thoughts on Jurassic World: Dominion and The Boys season 3 premiere. In the Airlock (35:17), Jason and Rosie dive deep (deeeep) into the premiere of Ms. Marvel – recapping episode one as well as giving their initial thoughts on the series; then they dive deep (deeeeep) into the murky depths of Nur to recap and discuss Part 4 of Obi-Wan Kenobi (1:04:42), pondering the Empire’s toxic workplaces, Reva’s possible background, and why the relationship between Leia and Obi-Wan continues to delight and enthrall.


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Listener’s Guide to X-Ray Vision

Stardust (1998) – written by Neil Gaiman; available wherever books are sold.


New 52 – A 2011 DC comics event that marked the relaunch of DC’s entire lineup with 52 new series all beginning with issue #1.


Marvel / Shazam Family – Confusing to say the least, this double name stems from the fact that DC’s Shazam was formerly known as Captain Marvel before Marvel comics trademarked that name; in 2012, DC officially changed their Captain Marvel’s name to Shazam.


Darth Vader (2017) – by Charles Soule, Giuseppe Camuncoli, Daniele Orlandini, Joe Caramagna, & David Curiel, as well as others. 



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Jason Concepcion: Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for episode four of Obi-Wan Kenobi, plus spoilers for episode one of Ms. Marvel and yeah like there’s some spoilers for stuff that happens in the first three episodes of Boys Season three. We do talk about Jurassic World Dominion, but that is in a completely spoiler free fashion. You have now been warned. Be careful. There are spoilers here.


Jason Concepcion: Hello. My name is Jason Concepcion. Welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked Podcast where we dive deep down into the waters of Nur all the way down to the seabed, to the floor of your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. In today’s episode on Previously On, we’ve got some news, including the trailer for Netflix’s Sandman, the trailer for the new Black Adam movie starring The Rock, Dwayne Johnson. Some some Jurassic World Dominion talk, some The Boys season three talk, and then we’ll move on to the Airlock where we discuss the premiere of the delightful Ms. Marvel and as well as episode four of the ongoing great television show, Obi-Wan Kenobi. And, of course, if you want to jump around, check out the timestamps in our show notes. I’ll have detailed notes in there about all the things we talk about. And to help me talk about all that stuff is The Walking Comics Encyclopedia, the number one Godzilla storyteller, you know her, you love her. She is Rosie Knight.


Rosie Knight: Wooooooo. How’s it going?


Jason Concepcion: It’s going good. How are you? How are you feeling? What’s going on?


Rosie Knight: I’m feeling good. I’m feeling tired. I was at the Black Adam launch event yesterday at Warner Brothers and then covering it and making sure that it was all out there. Saw Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson in real life and making sure all the pieces got out there and stuff. I’m feeling tired, I’m feeling excited. There’s a lot of good stuff to talk about.


Jason Concepcion: That movie’s going to make a lot of money. That is my prediction money.


Rosie Knight: It’s going to make, so much money. And when we talk about it, I will tell you the most interesting thing that has come out.


Jason Concepcion: Let’s get it, let’s get to Previously On then. In the News, NetflixSandman trailer has beens released. It was next Netflix Geeked Week this past week. Their coverage in that vein continues as Netflix stamps its flag down on its geek properties with a bunch of geek centric marketing. And that includes the release of the trailer of Neil Gaiman’s iconic Vertigo Series, limited series Sandman, which, as I have said before on this very podcast, if you traveled back to to a dorm room between, say, like 1995 and 2005, the five graphic novels that you would have seen on some student shelf were Batman, The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Batman Year One, probably like some other weird Frank Miller thing, like 300 or something like that. And then Sandman by Neil Gaiman.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely.


Jason Concepcion: This is the trailer looks very Sandman-esque, is developed by Neil Gaiman himself David David S Goyer who’s got you know as much experience in adapting comic book material for the screen as anyone. And Alan Heinberg is starring Tom Sturridge as Morpheus. The great Gwendoline Christie is Lucifer.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I can’t wait to see Gwendoline. That casting is like, there’s two castings is one show.


Jason Concepcion: Chef’s kiss.


Rosie Knight: That is one of them. And then skipping ahead, but also iconic character that we need and everyone cares about seeing. And what is the best thing about the trailer? My opinion is Kirby Howell-Baptiste as Death. Yes, that to me is like that’s like goth royalty and I’m very excited.


Jason Concepcion: Your thoughts on the trailer?


Rosie Knight: Very Sandmanny.


Jason Concepcion: Very, very, very Sandmanny.


Rosie Knight: Very Sandmanny. Hats to Kira North, that I wasn’t expecting.


Jason Concepcion: I was…yeah it was  Great.


Rosie Knight: In front of the explosion and I have a complex relationship with Sandman as I do with.


Jason Concepcion: Okay, okay.


Rosie Knight: It’s not negative. It’s just like,.


Jason Concepcion: Sure.


Rosie Knight: I feel like a lot of these comics that are held up as like the best comic that was ever made that like you said, there’s five of them. You know, for a long time that was the only comic you could read. But I love Sandman’s place in history.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: Not just because like the but we mentioned Neil Gaiman obviously best seller a famous guy but this had some wild artists like this is coming out in 1989.


Jason Concepcion: Incredible collection of artists.


Rosie Knight: Sam Keith, Jill Thompson.


Jason Concepcion: McManus, Mark.


Rosie Knight: And Dave McKean, obviously with those iconic like collage covers. Yeah. McManus, Mike Dringenberg, like. And my favorite thing about Sandman is that they did an advert in Rolling Stone for Sandman to sell the trade collection. And that is generally seen as the book that launched graphic novels in that kind of unbelievable popularity because of the adverts. I really love it as a historical piece. I’m also like a goth, so obviously I loved it when I was a kid. I loved death, you know.


Jason Concepcion: The dark fantasy kind of like in a comic.


Rosie Knight: Dark fantasy. I actually love a lot of what came out of Sandman. Like the weird spin off characters and the stranger stuff. You know, something I found really interesting about the trailer that I had to, like, kind of double check myself on. There’s a brilliant actress from Doctor Who, who somehow I had kind of missed that she was like a major casting in this, which is Jenna Coleman, and she is so great. And she’s playing a character. And I was like, Is that? That’s Joanna Constantine. And obviously, John Constantine, we know, is like this DC magic character. In the Sandman comics, Joanna Constantine was like a Neil Gaiman homage to Alan Moore. And she was like in the past and a kind of an ancestor of John Constantine. So I’m really excited to see them bring that character to the forefront and to the future like that, the choices they’re making. Oh, yeah, Mason Alexander Park as Desire. Like, they’re making a lot of choices that make me want to watch this. But also, I do think you summed up when it’s like the trailer is very Sandmanny. Like, like if you like the Sandman. You’re probably going to be like, this is this is great. This is looking great to me.


Jason Concepcion: You said something very important, which is that, you know, comic books were not respected as a form of literature. They may not even be now, but they certainly were not in the nineties.


Rosie Knight: They’re moving to that space.


Jason Concepcion: They were moving to that space until it was really Watchmen and Sandman together that made the graphic novel kind of a respectable thing that like a serious college student could have on their bookshelf.


Rosie Knight: Bookshops as well. I think he’s like a big.


Jason Concepcion: That’s said to be 100% it. Listen, we all we all like stuff. We’re all fans of stuff, but some people don’t like everything. And I have listened. I’ve read a ton of Neil Gaiman, not just his comics work, but like his his his literary work. And I don’t know what it is. You know, I read American Gods, Graveyard Book, Good Omens. I’ve read a bunch, you know, but I don’t know what it is but Neil Gaiman just doesn’t grab me. I’m not sure what it is in it. Well, in his in his book writing, I actually you know, I like the story American Gods. It’s something about his prose. I don’t know. I can’t explain it. All of which is to say Sandman was. We did. It was like, I’m excited for the adaptation. But at the time it was one of those like, this is too British for me or something. I don’t know what it was.


Rosie Knight: See. I’m glad. We are once again the proof of why we are the perfect kind of on the same page. This is not like Sandman is so important and it means so much to so many people.


Jason Concepcion: It’s a very, very important piece of work.


Rosie Knight: And it it was so groundbreaking. But you know what? It’s also the blessing of comics is there’s so many different things for so many different people. And for me, my favorite Neil Gaiman book, I read all of them too, and I had a similar feel. The one I really love is Stardust because yeah, it has that. It has that kind of evocative, strange quality of like it could be for kids, it could be for adults. It feels very timeless, but otherwise I feel similar. And I think that the most the coolest thing about Sandman is all the people it inspired and all the stuff that came out of it and all the brilliance. And again, this is a very interesting bit of comic book history because that’s what Sandman’s all about. Sandman came out through Vertigo, which is owned by DC Comics, and there are a few comics by Vertigo that are creator owned, and Neil’s a kind of control and a over arching kind of connection to Sandman makes people think that. But Sandman was an already existing character who he had to re-imagine completely different character, basically. And that means that this is it’s essentially like an IP, probably with a cool royalties deal. But I always find that really interesting because this is one of those books to me where like when we, where we described it, Neil Gaiman. Sandman So the idea that it’s like a DC comic, it kind of blows my mind and I think it will blow a lot of people’s minds to see this different vision of like what a DC comic can be.


Jason Concepcion: I will say I am not at all dissuaded by the fact that I didn’t like, love Sandman and I’m not the biggest Neil Gaiman guy. We’ve talked about this and I’ve talked about this other places, but The Boys, the comics, I absolutely I found it literally appalling.


Rosie Knight: It’s appalling. It’s absolutely appalling.


Jason Concepcion: Like I read I read two issues of it. And I could I couldn’t go any further. And the show I absolutely love. So like I am, I am very excited to watch this adaptation and hopefully this will be my entry point into the Sandman verse. Okay, Black Adam starring Dwayne Johnson as Teth-Adam.


Rosie Knight: It’s been a long time.


Jason Concepcion: A.k.a Black Adam. Lots of fun DC characters in this, including Aldis Hodge as Hawkman. Hawkman is here. Hawkman.


Rosie Knight: Such good casting. I can’t even I can’t even believe it took them this long. To cast a black person as Katar Hol like that to me is just mind blowing. And all this is so fantastic and he looks so good and so hench. And he’s got his golden suit. And I love. This is a very interesting trailer to me because it like balances the wacky out there fun of like Hawkman’s costume with what is obviously more of like a serious take. Yeah. So tonally, I’m like, I’m very interested, but yeah. Hawkman I’m like, yelling Atom Smasher. Running through the screen, giant sized.


Jason Concepcion: Noah Centineo as the actor. I will say in terms of Hawkman, the the 1989 Hawk World Limited Series three issue Limited series was kind of like one of my entry points into like DC is is fun to read which was it was kind of like an origin story for Hawkman. Noah Centineo is Atom Smasher, Pierce Brosnan is Dr. Fate.


Rosie Knight: And he is like primo like obviously a much bigger part of this movie than I would have necessarily expected. Pierce Brosnan somehow hasn’t been in a superhero movie before, which seems mind blowing, but his voiceover is the big voiceover for this. He’s kind of talking to Adam, trying to convince him to come on side, and it seems like it’s going to be two timelines. The definition 5000 years ago, dark timeline, which was the DC Comics kind of Egyptian analog where Black Adam came from originally, and then the modern timeline where Doctor Fate is establishing the JSA.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, we see some shots of the JSA in action. This is this is going to be fun. This appears to come out of some storylines from the new 52 DC’s line wide relaunch from a few years back called the new 52, which is actually for anybody looking to get into DC is if I had to put it in school terms, I’m probably like not even in middle school for DC yet, but I found that a really great place to get on and and and read about a bunch of different like I got on to Suicide Squad during that time. I got to Action Comics during that time it was Justice League. It was a great time to get on.


Rosie Knight: It was an unbelievably controversial but like powerful, very.


Jason Concepcion: Controversial, very controversial.


Rosie Knight: They reset the entire timeline and relaunched with 52 books only. And that was the idea anyway. But yeah, there’s definitely when I was looking at the trailer to write it out, there’s a lot of stuff here that seems to come from. So that the origin that we see for Black Adam here is he was a slave who dies and then he gets brought back as a God with the powers of Shazam. That is very new 52.  Also, there’s this moment where he’s like, My son sacrificed his life to save me. And during this is really bleak. But the movie, the show, the movie looks like it’s not scared to go there during the new 52 Shazam relaunch, which is really great, which introduced like this kind of new Marvel family and everything. Google that if it sounds confusing.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: And in that story, they had back ups that told the back story of Black Adam. And part of it was that his nephew got the powers of Shazam and Black Adam essentially killed him because he wouldn’t use them for revenge and he took the powers for himself. I don’t know if they’re going to go that deep into it, but it seems like they’re definitely taken from that era, which I find really interesting, because to me that feels very fresh. But when I think about it, it’s like 11 years ago.


Jason Concepcion: So that’s honestly it’s really nuts to think like, oh my God, was like New 52 and Marvel now like, really like 10 years ago? Like, just put me on an ice float and let me go. Let me float away into the ocean. I can’t believe it.


Rosie Knight: And there’s some other really fun stuff. Like there’s like a wacky nature to this, like in the comics. The reason some of the trailer opens and there’s like a spaceship and Black Adam is on it. And in the comics, Black Adam is banished to space by Shazam, and he takes him 5000 years to get back. So we can assume that something similar happened. And it’s kind of fun because in the original first issue where he appears, which is the Marvel family number one from 1945, they call him an alien. So they’re playing like Dwayne knows his stuff. Like at this event I went to yesterday, like the passion that these guys have for making this movie is really, really clear.


Jason Concepcion: That’s really cool.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: That’s super cool.


Rosie Knight: It’s. It’s absolutely. The enthusiasm like rubs off on you. Like in this movie. Dwayne Johnson was first connected to this movie in 2007, so it’s 15 years. 2007, which is just unbelievable. And he was going to be the villain in Shazam, and then they decided to make their own movie. But what kind of blew my mind that I had not realized or heard about? Near the end of the Q&A, he basically talked about the Black Adam universe and how he was like 100% committed to this long term plan of expanding what he was calling the Black Adam universe and and building out that world. And I just thought that was so interesting because I feel like that has not been talked about anywhere officially. This could be.


Jason Concepcion: I haven’t heard that at all? Yeah.


Rosie Knight: But like you said, I think you you you hit the nail on the head. That movie’s going to make a lot of money.


Jason Concepcion: It’s going to make a lot of money. It’s the rock in a DC movie. It’s going to make a lot of it’s going to like make a lot of money. And one of the lessons, one of the criticisms that I think people have levied at DC is like, how do you create a shared universe out of the kind of disparate tones? From Batman to the Flash to Aquaman that all these characters have when it seems like over and over again, Warner Brothers DC is gravitates to this kind of Batman dark tone that doesn’t necessarily translate to Superman as a super hopeful character. This gives them a chance to to to lay another peg that they can kind of hang stuff on. So I think that’s really exciting and that’s really cool. We haven’t heard that before. Next up, we saw Jurassic World Dominion. Here’s here’s your review. It’s got the dinosaurs in it.


Rosie Knight: This is unhinged.


Jason Concepcion: They’re breaking stuff. They’re eating stuff. It’s unhinged dinosaur action. Here’s a funny.


Rosie Knight: So many dinosaurs.


Jason Concepcion: Here’s a funny. Here’s something funny. So this is, of course, the the follow up, the end of the trilogy that was that began with Jurassic World in 2015 continued in Jurassic World, Fallen Kingdom in 2018, and now is culminating in Jurassic World Dominion. I had not seen Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom, but I thought I did. For some reason I thought I did. And so when we saw this movie, I’m like, Wait, there’s a clone in blue as a baby. Wait.


Rosie Knight: You literally texted me and said, it’s like I feel like they were introducing so many characters. I feel like I missed the movie. And I was like, Yeah, I think that’s interesting because like, I love I’m like a Fallen Kingdom apologist, even though a lot of people don’t like it. It’s like me and Richard Newby at the Hollywood Reporter are like the two people who love it. And and I was like, this is they. And and Jason’s like, you know. And then the text came. I didn’t see it.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. I absolutely missed the movie, which I have now rented. I’m going to watch, but I’ll just say this. I loved it. I had a great time. Listen, I’m a sucker for the dinosaurs. I love a hey, we should wonder if these corporations are bad kind of theme.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: I love whenever there’s an evil and evil big business billionaire who I know at some point, this is not a spoiler, will probably get his comeuppance at the mouth of a dinosaur or several. I just love that shit. I love it. And that’s a that’s a theme of of Jurassic Park going all the way back to the novel, to that Michael Crichton novels, and I greatly enjoyed it. How did you feel about it?


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I’m the same like I was. They suckered me in like immediately because I mean, I love dinosaurs, obviously.


Jason Concepcion: I love them.


Rosie Knight: And like, I as soon as, that the movie opens and I guess this person had been cast. So it’s not a spoiler, but the movie opens and they say this certain name of this character from the original Jurassic Park movie. And I didn’t know he was going to be like a key character in the movie. So from then I was like, Whoa! I was like, This is going back to the old school. And then they bring in like obviously the classic trilogy who we knew were going to come back, who are still as charming and charismatic as ever. And, and, yeah, and like, I really like that they bring in a lot of cool stuff from the Michael Crichton books? Like they go a little bit more back to that. And honestly, like I think I love the dinosaur action. Like we see the stuff you see in the trailer.


Jason Concepcion: Crazy Dinosaur.


Rosie Knight: It’s like a tease. They literally having a 15 minute scene in Malta where it’s like you’re watching it taken or like when I think he’s actually being chased by Raptor.


Jason Concepcion: It was like it was like, I’m watching a 007 movie only so only  it’s with raptors.


Rosie Knight: You will see I can’t believe it because this was one of the moments I think a lot of people like didn’t love and Fallen Kingdom. There is a really famous moment and Fallen Kingdom and you will text me when you see it, cause you will know it.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, yeah.


Rosie Knight: That is like they basically put a dinosaur into like a classic like Bruce Willis kind of action beat and it is so great and out there. And I was like, That, that is ridiculous. And I love it. And they’re never going to do that again. And then this whole movie was just that. It was like, What if we did like an action movie? But instead of being chased by like mobsters or like villains or whatever, they’re just being chased by dinosaurs through like Malta or like some wild kind of park situation. So yeah, I mean, I came out of it, I was just like, Woo! Jurasic World.


Jason Concepcion: Here’s another thing I really enjoyed about it. There is an actual when we catch up again with Dr. Ian Malcolm, the charming Dr. Ian Malcolm, played by Jeff Goldblum, the man who made nerd sexy. He at a certain point goes on. He makes a speech about.


Rosie Knight: Oh my god.


Jason Concepcion: About how? About how corporations corrupt your ideals.


Rosie Knight: Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion: You know, you you come into to your life as a as a conscious adult, thinking about all the ways that you want to change the world and all the ways that the world is has gone wrong and is. And the different ways that big business is like damaging the environment and making us hate each other, etc., etc. and you figure I can change it from the inside. And then he goes on to layout how these how big business, how capitalism basically undercuts you as you try to change it. And it’s actually like really great. And I couldn’t believe that that’s in the movie.


Rosie Knight: It’s incredibly real, and I think it actually speaks to like the rich. So the first Jurassic World movie, a lot of the criticism was people being like, there is so much product placement like this is really feels very like corporate and like shiny. And then Colin Trevorrow, the director, he he did a bunch of interviews where he was like the original script was like a searing anti-capitalist satire about these places in the way that they become sanitized and corporate sponsored. And obviously some of the edges got shaved off. And, and so I think that was a really nice way for him to do that moment. It’s brutal..


Jason Concepcion: I mean, Ian’s speech is, is very, very trenchant and extremely searing. And it is an absolute anti-capitalist, anti-corporatist tirade. I couldn’t believe that I was watching it in a Jurassic World movie coming out this week, June 10th, this Friday, June 10th. Okay, let’s quickly talk about The Boys, which is now in its third season. There are three episodes up right now on Amazon Prime. There is, well, first of all, we’re going to do a deeper dive. We’re going to do a deeper dive into The Boys at a later date, probably not next episode, but probably the episode after where we’ll just like catch up on what The Boys is doing. I want to first of all, like. I think that. First of all, Homelander is among the most terrifying TV villains that I have ever watched. Like he’s like King Joffrey. But if King Joffrey was like. Actually, instead of instead of being at the head of the power of a kingdom, had invested all the power of the kingdom like inside his own body, like was was was that powerful.  He is so fucking scary. And we’re in we’re in episode three right now and I know you haven’t caught up all the way, but like, he is so unbelievably unhinged and we are not halfway through the season, that I honestly don’t know how things don’t come to a head and he either kills everyone or they kill him kind of soon. Now I know that in that in the in the comics, many and many people have told me this, because again, I have not read them past the second issue, that Homelander basically sticks around throughout the whole thing. So but, but again, the show has changed a lot of stuff significantly and it’s those changes that made me love the, the, The Boys the show. But man Homelander is unbelievably scary. And much like what we just said about Jurassic World Dominion, there are critiques in here that are not so off.


Rosie Knight: Oh my God.


Jason Concepcion: Okay, about corporations, about the way power accumulates towards the powerful, towards those who are powerful, about how the underclass can fight back against that, about class distinctions, about racial divides, etc.. And again, they’re not they’re not subtle, but I find them like tremendously powerful told in this medium that is, you know, superhero stories are like I don’t think not even arguably are the most popular form of storytelling right now. And so to to like talk about these kind of themes in the context of superheroes, in a way that takes the Superman myth and makes it more real, turns it on its head, is super thought provoking. And this is happening in a show in which like a, you know, the termite crawls into a man’s urethra and then grows to adult size again and then, like, blows his dick up. Like, you know whatI mean Like I can’t believe I’m saying like I am. I find this thought provoking, but I really do.


Rosie Knight: I think the smartest thing about The Boys and the thing that is going to make it so vital for like the next three decades, right, is they took an underground, like, edgy comic, which neither of us are fans of, and they repurposed it. And in the first season they were like, Yeah, this is like edgy. And it’s kind of a, it’s about corporations and oh, can you see the similarities here between like Disney and Vore and know by season two they were just straight up telling you like, this is how it would be. And also we’re almost half there with these fake superheroes in the way that they used. We don’t even need them in real life, the things that these icons can represent or can be used to sell. I mean, I will never forget I think it’s the third episode of the second season where they do this press conference for Stormfront, who spoiler alert, if you haven’t seen Season 2,  is a Nazi like a legitimate like 120 year old like real Nazi, you know, like one of one of the original.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. One of the first 15 Nazis like.


Rosie Knight: And if you and I think like most people knew before the show came out, so it wasn’t kind of a big reveal, but they do a press conference for her and these two other heroes. And the. And the way that is done, this saccharine pink feminist like girls get it done that says.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: It is. It spoke so deeply to the way that that stuff can be posed and the way that they try and use that to control the narrative about, yeah, self-empowerment. And when really you’re promoting something so horrific, you know, it’s so clever. And all I’ve heard about Season three is that that element has been even more honed.


Jason Concepcion: Oh, It’s amped up. It’s amped up.


Rosie Knight: And sharper. And I love to hear that about Homelander, too, because I think by the end of season two, he is already up there in the pantheon and he is.


Jason Concepcion: He is crazy.


Rosie Knight: So the promo that was done before this where they showed his face on the screen telling the story of how Stormfront tricked him and he was just a guy who fell in love with the wrong woman. And they kind of blew it up and showed that he was saying the same thing that was so chilling. And that was like a social promo. I’m like, I also.


Jason Concepcion: Have you seen that? Have you seen that? And Amazon PR not to. Here we are like this is.


Rosie Knight: I know it’s Amazon.


Jason Concepcion: This shows you where I mean just this is just listen.


Rosie Knight: That’s the point.


Jason Concepcion: You can critique. This is it’s like it’s like the meme, you know, the cartoon of like,.


Rosie Knight: Oh, yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Hey, I’d like to I’d like to fix society a little bit. Oh, interesting. You take part in society right? There’s no escape from it, right? So this is this is anti-corporate ist anti-capitalist show that that takes place within a corporate a massive corporate entity. There’s no escaping from those kind of things. That said, I think that the show is really hitting on all cylinders for me right now. I’m super enjoying it. I can’t wait to talk in a deeper way about it. I guess we should say that there is a scene in the Season three premiere that has been directly inspired by and this is confirmed by showrunner Eric Kripke, the famous medium, which said that which of course you recall it was this idea that like if they wanted to stop Thanos earlier, what they should have done is have Scott Lang shrink down, crawl into Thanos’ butt and then grow to human size, because of course, he’s going to be softer on the inside. And then we see this in in the premiere, in the scene in which termite shrinks down, crawls into a man’s urethra, and then, you know, it’s coming right away. He sneezes, grows back to human size and kills the guy. It is. Horrific. But also, you just like understood that it was going to happen. And it made me think of, you know, back when I was doing Binge Mode Marvel, somebody, we had like a mailbag and somebody asked, okay, so what side would you have been on in the Civil War? Would you be pro registration or anti registration? And here’s that answer in the Marvel Universe, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which I love. The heroes are heroic, they’re good. So placing power in their hands is actually, like, a very comfortable thing to do. Like in the fiction, in the fictional reality of the Marvel Universe, I’m anti registration because Shield was fucking Hydra and I just trust Captain America and. And Tony Stark and Natasha and all those people more. And and T’Challa. I trust them way more than the government. Now, flip it. If this is the real world and there’s a billionaire out there with like $1,000,000,000,000 suit of armor, he can fly around and there’s a super soldier who was created by a military program, and he’s doing, like, stuff that nobody knows about. And then there’s like a brainwashed half brainwashed, like former Russian agent with a bionic arm. And then there’s like a physicist who turns into, like, a huge rage monster who can destroy whole cities. Yeah, I want them registered like that in the real world. I want them registered. And so The Boys does that. Part of what makes The Boys hit so hard is it is more realistic about how it would probably go down if superheroes actually existed in our world. They would be huge celebrities. They would be corporate sponsorships, brand sponsorships, be involved and.


Rosie Knight: Maybe made by corporations.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, they’d be involved with their curating. There’d be a lot of cover ups. They’d be immensely powerful. The government wouldn’t know how to regulate them, etc., etc., etc..


Rosie Knight: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think something that’s really funny is like and depressing. But like The Boys is much it feels much more real. The MCU like to say it’s an idealistic place, right? I mean.


Jason Concepcion: Which is why I love is. Which is why I love.


Rosie Knight: The heroes.


Jason Concepcion: Taking part in it.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. And the heroes in the MCU are literally so infallible that they had to have like, obviously, everything is written in, it’s fictional, but they had to write in Wanda, like killing the thousands of people accidentally in Lagos to make the registration seem like that was an argument for it, you know, so, so like I totally agree with you the, the, I mean, now I think you could argue that the registration in the MCU post, the Post West View, you’d probably be for it, but I’m never for registering anyone. I’m like, keep him, Charles. You keep them safe in the X school. Don’t. Don’t let the government get them, baby.


Jason Concepcion: All right. Up next, we go into the Airlock to discuss Ms. Marvel episode one Generation Y and big, big, big dive into Obi Wan Kenobi, part four.


Jason Concepcion: <A.D.>.


Jason Concepcion: We’re back stepping out of the Airlock to talk about Ms. Marvel. The debut of Ms. Marvel, which will be diving into as more as the series progresses. And part four of Obi-Wan Kenobi, both out of Disney Plus. First up, Ms. Marvel Episode one, Generation Y. We open to the dulcet cocaine sounds of the Weeknd’s Blinding Lights, wonderful poppy synth pop song about cocaine and going out clubbing. And it’s the perfect soundtrack for a show about a high school teenager. And we watch that high school teenager, high school student, Jersey City resident Kamala Khan as she is uploading the last chapter of her history of The Avengers, which she has done in very, very creative paper animation, just like in the comics. And and we learn through this that one, Kamala is a super, super fan of Captain Marvel, and particularly in all things, superheroes in general. She even listens to Scott Lang’s podcast, Big, Big Me, Little Me on the This Our Life Podcast Network. And furthermore, Captain Marvel is just Kamala’s absolute favorite. Yes, Captain Marvel is currently off world doing stuff that no one is really sure what she’s doing. And some people are criticizing her for like abandonning Earth. But as Kamala says, can a woman just live? Plus, call what Captain Marvel said in Endgame when Natasha is like, So are you coming back here? Are you coming back to help us out with stuff? And she’s like, Listen, stuff that happened on Earth also happened like all across the universe and there’s thousands of world out here that need help. So I got to be dealing with that. So she’s dealing with a lot of stuff right now. Kamala signs off and teases her theory, one that Thor is a gamer. True. Correct. Tells her she tells her subs to two total subs on her YouTube channel that she’ll be at Avengers Con this weekend cosplaying as who else? Captain Marvel. We then meet Kamala’s family. Her mother, Muneeba, Father Yusef, older brother Amir. Kamala heads off to her driving test, which is a smash hit, in the sense that she smashes into her driving teacher’s actual car and then we go smash cutting into the title sequence of the show. All of this is really done in a super poppy,  really fun.


Rosie Knight: Oh its so fun.


Energetic, like lots of movement of the camera. Really exciting cuts like.


Rosie Knight: The art direction of like in Kamala’s art into the walls.


Jason Concepcion: So appealing the way text messages come up like in comic books like like they are just so created with the lettering. Texts will come up like on the street, like as part of.


Rosie Knight: In neon lights.


Jason Concepcion: In neon lights like on a window as they walk by. It’s super fun and creative.


Rosie Knight: It’s unlike. It is. I know people say this a lot and like, but this really does feel different from any Marvel show, not just because of the tone and the charming kind of kid friendliness of it all, but that visual esthetic and camerawork is like very unique.


Jason Concepcion: It’s really, really, really fun. Like, visually speaking, it’s easily the most interesting of the Marvel Disney. I’m just like.


Rosie Knight: Unquestionably.


Jason Concepcion: Super fun. Okay. In the hallway at school, we see Kamala, you know, walking through her school and we see that she is basically like a classic nerd, kind of an outsider character, though she does have her friend group that includes her best friend, Bruno, who is just a genius level inventor, and then Nakia, who is just like a super cool girl at school. Really, really fun, supportive friend group. Kamala somehow can’t walk the hallways without bumping literally into every one.


Rosie Knight: Very John Cues, its like.


Jason Concepcion: Is like she’s knocking into everyone, having to apologize to everyone, and finally she knocks into Jersey City cool girl influencer Zoe who as I think they said, like 8000 followers on some social media platform. That is not named.


Rosie Knight: Is I think it’s like I think it’s like hundreds of thousands.


Jason Concepcion: I think they said 100,000, but it’s less I think that they might have thought.


Rosie Knight: Maybe she gets to 100,000 later.


Jason Concepcion: I think she gets to it. But whatever the case, Zoe is super, super cool and Kamala bumps into her and then Kamala tries to compliment Zoe, but it goes very awkwardly. And then all of a sudden the P.A. comes to life and it’s Mr. Wilson, Kamala’s guidance counselor, is like Kamala Khan. Please come to the principal’s office. You’re in big trouble. Just kidding. Which is, like, so embarrassing. Don’t do this if you’re a guidance counselor, don’t like. And please don’t do that.


Rosie Knight: When you’re, when you’re, like, our age, you’re like, this is so charming. Like, I love this guy. If you’re a teenager, you’re like I hate him.


Jason Concepcion: This is the last day of my life. Like, I don’t want to go on anymore. Mr. Wilson Oh, sorry.  Go on.


Rosie Knight: And I was going to say you hear the name, Mr. Wilson, and you think, oh, that must be a reference to G. Willow Wilson Yeah. Co-creator. And it is because when you go in his office where we get to next, there is a name on his table and it says G.W. Wilson. And that’s really nice.


Jason Concepcion: The it that. So Mr. Wilson is a really, really cool guy. He is quite dedicated to helping his students succeed. And he’s spending a lot of energy trying to connect emotionally and intellectually with Kamala, and try to get her to stop daydreaming as much. But it and to care about like college admissions is a big year you got to think about that kind of stuff. But all of this like info dump triggers, Kamala’s like anxiety. She shuts down, she starts daydreaming. She’s clearly got A.D.D. and Mr. Wilson, Mr. Wilson is like, listen, you got to you got to put your feet on the ground at some point. Later after school, Kamala’s kvetching to Bruno about Avengers Con and how it’s going to be. How is she going to convince her parents to let her go? And by the way, this is the first Avengers Con ever so this is a very historic event. You want to be there for the first one ever. And they’ve been working on Kamala’s Captain Marvel cosplay. And this is all going to be for nothing. And so then Bruno has a plan and it’s this brilliant, very, very sophisticated plan of just ask your parents, we go and which is great. And by the way, like pause here. As a child of immigrants, this all of this stuff hit like the cultural differences, trying to bridge the gap between like the people you’re growing up around and what your parents expect and the things that they expected from you when they came here. All the hopes and dreams that they had and that the culture that they come from and trying to explain like all these weird things to them that they have no basis for understanding all of that stuff, all of the home scenes, just it felt like. It was like, man, I know what this is. I’ve I’ve I’ve had this conversation. I know what this is. Back home, Kamala is watching Felicity when her mom comes home carrying a box of old stuff from Kamala’s grandmother, who’s been just basically offloading a bunch of stuff as she gets older. In many of us words, she probably just wants to get rid of all this stuff before she dies in. There is a bunch of jewelries and pictures and stuff, and then this very ornate bracelet, which Kamala is immediately drawn to and then which Muneeba snatches in a way that suggests that, there is a story there. She doesn’t like this thing. For whatever reason. That’s junk. She says the bracelet goes back in the box, back goes into the attic, and Kamala goes off to accompany mom on a bunch of errands. On the excursion again, we get a feel for Kamala’s experience as a child of immigrants, and all the family stuff is like, Great, great.


Rosie Knight: Something I really loved. And this was like, the visual is is there for everything. But something I thought was so cool that we don’t really see in stories like this are about, like, immigrant families. They don’t try and make it like this is like a gritty, real look, like the heart is what gives it the authenticity.


Jason Concepcion: It’s a big heart. Yeah.


Rosie Knight: Everything is so stylized in the funnest way, like that montage of when they go to like the jazzy cities like South Asian neighborhood. It’s just so beautiful, and edgaging, and vibrant.  And and they do that in this show a lot where it’s like this is a story about like a young Muslim girl who gets to be in this vibrant, kind of fantastical, hyper real space. But it’s always grounded with that like family story that feels really specific, which is powerful, but incredibly universal. I got so many texts from people that’s the same place saying like, This was my parents. They say now they acted.


Jason Concepcion: That’s absolutely right. I mean, you you come to a place when you read enough stories and you watch enough TV and you try to create enough stories where you realize that. Every family, no matter what culture they’re from, basically has the same kind of drives and incentives. They’re all they all want the best for their kids while their kids that go to school get an education, you know, they want them to meet the right person. Like all all that’s why, like, sitcoms translate. That’s why these stories very often translate from place to place. And this is a prime example of that. It’s like, yes, Kamala’s family is from a different culture maybe than like the standard Scots, Irish, Protestant, white culture or, you know, but the things that they go through, the things that they talk are the same as any family, anywhere or any place. So back home, we see that Bruno is very comfortable at the Kamala houehold.


Rosie Knight: He is beloved.


Jason Concepcion: He is beloved over there. He’s over there giving Mr. Kahn a a walk through on his custom built, voice activated Zuzu system, which is like a custom made Alexa, which can it can turn off the lights. It monitors various security cameras. It controls all the smart home stuff in the home, which also Bruno has designed. And the cool part about it is he has programed it to understand Urdu so the Khan family can speak to it in their in their native language and feel very comfortable doing so. Bruno then needles Kamala on his way out. It’s like, Did you ask your parents about Avengers Con?  You got to do it. And then she does. Framing it is really it. Again, this is like as a child of immigrants, this is exactly the way you do it. You do it by saying, Hey, my friends want to do this. It’s really more a thing that they want to do that I want.


Rosie Knight: And you like them, so.


Jason Concepcion: You like them. So Kamala frames it as, really this is a Bruno thing so, Avengers Con and like he wants to go and, you know, it’s like, I guess I want to go along with him. And of course, your parents have various problems with this, including the presence of boys, the potential presence of alcohol, the question of how late she’s going to be out.


Rosie Knight: Yeah and they think it’s a party. They don’t know that this is the first Avengers Con. There’s not really any context. Like is this a party? Is she going to be late, yeah, and it’s really cute.


Jason Concepcion: And then there’s the question of what are you going to wear? What are you wearing? My Captain Marvel costume suits too tight to medium. It’s too tight. It is too tight, too revealing. This whole thing is haram. Kamala complains that as and again this is like a very like yeah if you’ve ever had a chance or if you were the child, maybe you’ve seen a version of this conversation. Kamala then complains, Listen, Amir can go out to do anything he wants, and I can’t do anything. I can’t go anywhere. I can’t wear anything. I have to ask permission to do everything. And she storms off. Amir comes to talk to her later in her room, and he basically agrees. Listen, I’ll lobby the parental units on your behalf. And she then texts Bruno. That’s bad news. My parents said no. Next day Kamala is putting on her and she’s she’s in a room. She’s putting on her Captain Marvel costume. She’s experimenting with a sash to maybe. Make it, make the silhouette look a little less form fitting to make it a little bit more palatable for her parents, maybe. And then Muneeba comes in to announce that, guess what, you can go to the Con, but there are conditions, what mainly those conditions are. You have to dress in a baggy Hulk costume. And also your dad is also dressed as the Hulk and he’s going to go and he’s got green make in the whole thing. There’s two Hulks. You can be two Hulks together at the Avengers. Con..


Rosie Knight: I just want to say. Yeah, I need to get this in context, because this scene broke my heart. Kamala’s mom made her a costume. Made a full costume. She felt was haram, and her dad comes into the room and he’s like, Oh, and he’s dressed as the Hulk and he’s painted green. Kamala very understandably is like, No, this is terrible. But I know I’m old because that scene, like, broke my heart and I was ready to, like, ground her. I was like, Do you know what it’s like?


Jason Concepcion: I felt so bad for her mom.. Yeah.


Rosie Knight: I was like, Do you know how rare it is to have parents who would support you and love you in something that they completely don’t understand? That to me was like so real and so heartbreaking. And I think like, they did a really great job of presenting just how supportive her parents are in that moment, even if it’s in their own way.


Jason Concepcion: I mean, Yusef comes in full makeup roaring like the Hulk.


Rosie Knight: And he does the Hulk’s smash hand.


Jason Concepcion: Hulk. Smashing Kamala is like hard no. Absolutely no. Hard, no. Immediately no. And the parents are crestfallen. They are heartbroken at this.


Rosie Knight: Their dad is like crying.


Jason Concepcion: He’s literally crying. Later on, Bruno and Kamla meet on the roof of the apartment building to just talk over what what are they going to do? Bruno, we see, is a super supportive friend and  would love it if it would go maybe beyond friendship, but it’s also fine if it doesn’t like. Is that going to hurt a little bit? You get the sense like Bruno would be probably dinged in the heart place a little bit if it doesn’t go into beyond on friendship. But he’s happy where it is. He just loves hanging out with his friend Kamala and he tells her, listen, just because there hasn’t been a superhero who is a brown girl named Kamala who saves the world doesn’t mean that it won’t happen yet. It doesn’t mean that it won’t happen one day and that it wouldn’t be you. And then he gives her his new invention for her costume, which is these photon gloves, these like these really cool, like light up gloves that will simulate Captain Marvel’s ability to project energy from her hands. Totally, totally cool. After school, Kamala sees Dad fighting with the Zuzu, which gives her an idea which she then shares with Bruno the following day. And it’s your classic Ferris Bueller’s Day Off rouse, but with 2020 technology and Bruno’s, you know, incredible genius level, know how. Kamala will sneak out, they will then head off by bike to Avengers Con and then take the bus to. And we’ll come back to this Camp Lehigh is the place where Avengers Con is taking  place, which is wild. Okay. And then Bruno’s and then Bruno’s Smart home system will allow them to monitor what the parents are doing and also to cover for Kamala’s absence by, you know, projecting, allowing Kamala to speak through a speaker which is in her room and she’ll be like, I’m getting changed if someone tries to come to the door. It can work. They then they then will go to Avengers Con. Kamala will win the contest. They will sneak back. And no one will ever be the wiser. It’ll be perfect. Now, Kamala just has to finish her costume, and Bruno suggests, Listen, why don’t you put a personal touch on it? Kamala goes to the attic, she grabs the bracelet. Avengers Con, the next day. Bruno and Kamala put the plan into motion, and it goes off with several hitches. But it does go off. Many hitches. Okay, like a lot of hitches.


Rosie Knight: I love it. Can I just also say, like, okay, you know what? They just happen and then they arrive at Camp Lehigh. Let’s talk about that.


Jason Concepcion: Okay. So the number one hitch, the branch that Kamala uses to get in and out of her second floor window breaks she lands on her back, is uninjured. So already I’m very impressed with Kamala’s sturdiness.


Rosie Knight: There is an implication in this episode.


Jason Concepcion: I agree.


Rosie Knight: That there is a legacy or a inherited superheroic power that is there.


Jason Concepcion: She lands and it should be a hard landing and she’s not hurt. So think about that then if she loses her bike when they get on the bus, but whatever it’s time to go, they then arrive at Camp Lehigh for the Con. And by the way, the place looks great. You might remember Camp Lehigh.


Rosie Knight: What is Camp Lehigh, if people don’t know.


Jason Concepcion: Camp Lehigh is the place where Steve Rogers first trained to become Captain America as part of the larger Captain America training program, including all the other cadets who he beat out to get the super soldier serum. And then later, years later, around 2014, the events of the Winter Soldier Crisis. It is the place where Arnim Zola I am Zola. I am Swiss. And the cruise missile is on the way, Captain. It’s the place where Art of Zola launches the cruise missile at Natasha and Steve, who are who have just found his hard drives that he is on and the place blows up and now it looks great looking great. Cape Lehigh looks great now.


Rosie Knight: Not just,  it just doesn’t I mean just only look great, but this is like the best comic convention that has ever existed. I know it’s not technically about comics, but it’s the best superhero convention.


Jason Concepcion: It really is super, super fun comic convention.


Rosie Knight: It is magical. Like if you’ve ever been to I’ve been to many conventions and they’re all magical in their own way. But they are all whether you’re a San Diego or whether as Zim Fest, they are all really a giant room that has lots of tables with people displaying stuff. And if it’s DC Comics, it’s just a bigger table. And then you have your halls where you can see stuff. But this is another thing about the production design and the world that they create for Kamala to go into. I love that she is going to live in a dreamlike world where it’s like, This is in your head what you imagine San Diego Comic-Con will look like.


Jason Concepcion: The displays are amazing. They have a huge Mjolnir. They have like a big like.


Rosie Knight: They have a giant Antman.


Jason Concepcion: They have it. Yeah, they have a Scott Lang giant man display. They have like really cool T-shirts and including like an America’s ass t shirt.


Rosie Knight: Like, oh yeah, if you like Ester eggs.


Jason Concepcion: Like all of the merch is amazing.


Rosie Knight: You are going to love this action.


Jason Concepcion: It’s so, so fun. Oh, and also, we should add, Camp Lehigh is also the place where back in the seventies cap. Oh yeah. And Tony Stark as part of the time heist went back and stole the Infinity Stone. Which one is it? The space stone. Right. Stole the space stone so that they could then, you know, defeat Thanos. Anyway, place looks great. Now it’s time for the Captain Marvel cosplay contest. But disaster has struck. Zoe is there in the 1970s Carol Danvers costume like that with the shorts and the high boots and the little sash. And she’s not even a Captain Marvel fan, but there she is. And now Kamala is like, Fuck, I’m going to lose. But like, Bruno is like, listen, don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it. Just get just get suited up. Kamala goes into the bathroom, she suits up, but she forgets Bruno’s photon gloves. She rushes out, slips the bracelet on Bruno Bruno’s like, Where’s the gloves? She’s like, I don’t know. And he’s like, Don’t worry about it. Just get the bracelet on. He she gets the bracelet on. And immediately there’s like a corona of really interesting energy that is just like surrounding her body that nobody else notices but her. She takes the stage, everybody’s looking at her, her anxiety builds, her nervousness peaks, and all of a sudden, accidentally, she has triggered this blast of energy. Kind of like a solid crystallized light thing from the bracelet, she accidentally blasts the head off. That’s the aforementioned Scott Lang giant man statue, causing it to fall off, go rolling dangerously across the Con floor. Much like the Boulder in Indiana Jones. Zoe’s like, Holy shit, I’m impressed. But meanwhile, the entire con is falling apart. And Zoe being impressed quickly ceases when she is struck by the giant size Mjolnir near her that sends her sailing into a wall of fake clouds. Kamala catches her making a hand out of the energy from her bracelet, which looks.


Rosie Knight: Which looks a lot like her comic book power, the embiggened  hand.


Jason Concepcion: The embiggen hand. Much like in the comic books. It’s a very cool moment. And then, Bruno, come on, like, we got to get the fuck out here. What is happening? I don’t know what is happening. It is, of course, a dream come true. This is what she’s been daydreaming about for years, ever since the emergency Avengers. She has powers, but they’re very scary. She has no idea what’s going on. She doesn’t know how to use them or.


Rosie Knight: Or how she got them.


Jason Concepcion: Or how she got them. And right now, at this moment, what she’s got to do is get back in her house. Bruno is like, don’t worry, I’m not going to tell anyone. This is incredible development, of course, but I’m not going to tell you when secret’s safe with me. P.S.I love you. Back in her room, Kamala finds bad news. Your mom is there. And by the way, this is. This is just anybody who’s ever snuck out.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, she’s sitting in the classic mom position.


Jason Concepcion: This is a fucking nightmare.


Rosie Knight: And the funniest. This is another really great bit of visual storytelling they show. Like the time when Kamala climbs back in the window and it’s like 8:40. Oh, yeah. It’s like she’s a teenager, but it’s. And the mom’s there, and she’s waiting, like, every mom in every real house and every teen movie house and every TV show house. She’s waiting in the dark. She’s in your room and she knows you aren’t there.


Jason Concepcion: Now, mom is very, very upset. And in this conversation, we, again get these kind of hints that. That Kamala’s nanny, her grandmother. It was potentially definitely owned this bracelet and probably whatever it is that Kamala is experiencing now because of these, we’re just going to call them the quantum bands, that her grandparent was wielding them as well, and that whatever that experience was like for the rest of the family, her mom is scared and doesn’t like it. And of course, beyond that, Muneeba is just bitterly disappointed in her daughter, who has lied to her and tricked her and has rejected their help and etc., etc., all these hopes and dreams that they had for her. And here is Kamala being this secretive, lying person who’s going to these parties that she shouldn’t be going to, etc., etc., etc.. And she poses the question, Do you want to be our daughter? Do you want to be like a normal person, good student, or do you want to be like this daydreamer cosmic powers person was your head’s up in the air with your head in the clouds. She leaves Kamala’s in bed, her hand glowing with this newfound power. And then she says, Of course, cosmic. She wants a cosmic choice. And then we go to the stinger. We get some credits. We go to the stinger and the offices of the Department of Damage Control. Agent Deaver is showing our old friend, Agent Cleary, a video of the most recent happenings at Avengers Con saying, I’ve never seen powers like this. We got powered people popping up all the time. But this is a this is a new one. Bring her in, Cleary says. And it’s pretty cool that damage control is going to be, I would imagine, a big a big part of this series. And we’re on to we’re on to episode two next week. Now, I thought again, I thought this was really fun and that it’s clear that these are the quantum bands or something like the quantum bands. But my question is this. Where’s the other one?


Rosie Knight: Okay, so this I think something that I thought was so well seeded here. When Muneeba is in that conversation with Kamala, she says, you know, don’t get stuck in these fantasies like that is dangerous. Yeah. And she talks about Nani. And I think there’s this really interesting thing that they’re positioning here, which is this idea that Nani had the powers that she had, the quantum bands, and nobody in her family believed her.


Jason Concepcion: Right.


Rosie Knight: And they said she was crazy and.


Jason Concepcion: She’s this protector of the universe.


Rosie Knight: And they’re like, sure.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, whatever.


Rosie Knight: And it’s like, what, 1920s or something, you know? Like, I think that is really powerful. And I think even though like we’ve had all our theories about the the power changes, I love the way they did it. And I think the official Marvel line is like it aligns her more with the Marvel’s who are going to kind of be to me I just thought it was really cool looking but this theory and this kind of story about it being a family legacy, that really speaks to me. I think that the other band is somewhere already in Kamala’s home and they had been split up to keep them apart and maybe the mom had been because I’m assuming if this is a legacy situation. I would assume that at some point Nani had tried to share that power with Kamala’s mom. And that wasn’t something she did.


Jason Concepcion: She rejected it.


Rosie Knight: So I wouldn’t be surprised if the other band is closer than we think because it’s been there to be to keep them separate. And now they’re both. In the space of Kamala. And I just I thought this was so cool. I loved the show. I loved the way it used comic art. And like, yeah, sure, she makes animated videos, but she’s obviously a cartoonist. It pays homage to the stuff before they had a little wall plaque that shouted out all the people who’ve worked on Ms. Marvel like G. Willow Wilson again, you know, Jamie Mckelvie, all these great people Agent Alfonar. I like I love the way that they’re paying homage to the artform. And I’m really excited. Like, I cannot wait to see.


Jason Concepcion: This has been super fun. It’s a super fun show. And as we learn more about the what we again assumed to be the quantum bands. We’ll do it. We’ll do a deep dive into just what those are in the in the comics version. Up next, Obi-Wan Kenobi, part four.


Jason Concepcion: <A.D.>


Jason Concepcion: Obi-Wan Kenobi, part four. We open on the ship to Jabiim. Our good friend Ben is he’s he’s hurt real bad. He’s in agony. His right arm and shoulder look like bad pizza. Tala plunks Obi in the back of a tank. And as he’s marinating in there, he has visions of Vader their duel. These memories play again and again and in Ben’s pain addled mind. And then when Obi finally emerges, guess what? You’re there. We’re here. We’re on Jabiim. Where’s Leia? He asks. Guess where she is? Real bad place. She’s at Fortress Iinquisitorius on the underwater world Nur, which is a moon in the Mustafar system, a.k.a. Darth Vader’s backyard. Reva is beginning the process of interrogating Leia in order to discover what she knows about The Path, what she knows just about Jedi, in general. Leia resists, insisting that Obi-Wan, my friend Obi-Wan, is going to come, going to come rescue me. And then Reva tells the young princess, Hi, your friend and guardian is Ben is dead. Nobody’s coming for you. And this is a good reminder to all of you out there that on on Fortress Inquisitorius and here on Earth, the cops are legally allowed to lie to you. So they say,.


Rosie Knight: Eactly. And they an just lie.


Jason Concepcion: And they can just lie. They can lie and don’t talk without your lawyer. Here is Reva at it  again. She’s lying.


Rosie Knight: Be like Leia. Don’t say nothing.


Jason Concepcion: Don’t say nothing until you’re.


Rosie Knight: Leia is a true G Throughout the show. She’s saying nothing.


Jason Concepcion: No, speak until my lawyer arrives on Jabiim, which which we learn is a hub of this kind of like nascent rebellion. It’s a hub on The Past. It’s a major stop on The Path. Tala introduces Ben to Rokan, played by O’Shea Jackson. Rokan is like, Ben, get this fucking guy out of here. Get this Jedi on the run out of here. It’s obviously dangerous. He’s got Darth Vader looking for him. He’s got the Inquisitors looking for him and we. And if they come here, there’s no way we can stop them and we’ll all die. You got to get him out of here. Ben is like, no, but Leia, you know, like, I got to find the girl, etc., etc., etc.. And then from. And then we learned that Rokan clearly knows very clearly who Obi-Wan Kenobi is. He says, General, that’s not my problem, which suggests that Rokan was like somehow in the know during the era of the Clone Wars, like click knew what Obi-Wan Kenobi was up to during that time, Tala insists, like, this rescue is important. Leia knows too much about our operation. Get her out of there. Ben tells Rokan then, hey, you have you have no idea what the empire is capable of. And obviously ridiculous statements.


Rosie Knight: Ben has been hiding in that game, he didn’t even know Darth Vader existed.


Jason Concepcion: He’s in a lot of pain, and he’s just been he’s just come out of his absence, so I will cut him some slack, give him a little grace. But it is a ridiculous thing to say to a guy who is like helping to manage a escape route for dissident force sensitives and others and is clearly like at great peril from the imperial forces like day, morning, noon and night. Like, of course he knows like what the empire is capable of. And then Rokan proceeds to tell Ben, like, Listen, the, my wife and here he suggests that she was a force sensitive person. He says something to the effect of, like my wife, I knew what she was. She knew what she was. We tried to hide it. But the Empire found her and. And they. And they took her. But. And then they killed her. But did they? Here’s. Let’s pause and stop here. Is. Is Reva Rokan’s wife?


Rosie Knight: Oh, my God. Could you imagine? That would be unbelievable.


Jason Concepcion: Is thi? Is this why the other Inquisitors are like, you’re. It’s like really a piece of shit you like you’re scum. You’re, you know. Because she was more. Even more tightly tied to this kind of like, dissident, this fomenting rebellion movement than we previously knew of. Is it that?


Rosie Knight: Yeah. We had actually spoken pretty extensively about why they don’t like her. And it felt very real to us. That part of that reason would be because she had climbed higher in the Jedi or become closer to a rebellion. Now, if now, Reva would really be having bad luck if she was one of those opening padawans and then had managed to find love with someone who wasn’t rejecting her. And then been captured.


Jason Concepcion: Captured by the Inquisitors.


Rosie Knight: Captured by the Inquisitors, by the Inquisitors. But you know what? It’s tough times living in Star Wars. It could happen.


Jason Concepcion: Now it would be a young couple to get married, as you know. But that being said, that happens all the time in Star Wars. Owen and Beru were very young, like, and Anakin, Anakin and Padme were very young. Like.


Rosie Knight: Especially Anakin.


Jason Concepcion: Yes. Especially Anakin. In the reality of Star Wars. Couples get together, they fall in love.


Rosie Knight: Life expectancy is very short.


Jason Concepcion: And that’s it. There is not a lot of dating around Han Solo accepted, even though all we know of is like two people in Han Solo’s romantic life.


Rosie Knight: And then they expanded universe. I think like he was, there was a time when Leia was going to get married to someone else, so that he had to go and get her. So there’s like lots of marriage drama and it happens young. I believe. I love this idea.


Jason Concepcion: All of which is to say, you know, pay attention to the way Reva. Is that the arguments Reva uses on Leia as the interrogation continues, your friends, they’ve abandoned you. I’m the only one that cares, yadda, yadda. And you can if Reva is Rokan’s one time partner, you could see that very argument being used on her in conjunction with brutal torture to turn her into a person who on some level believes that her friends and her loved ones abandoned her to her fate with the Empire.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, she sounds like someone who was brainwashed. And she is. Moses Ingram is doing a very good job of selling this, like constantly on the brink of knowing what you’re doing is terrible.


Jason Concepcion: Right.


Rosie Knight: But needing it to all mean something.


Jason Concepcion: So Rokan agrees to help. And so Rokan flanked by Wade and and Sully played by Maya Erskine. Maya Erskine is not Dr. Aphra?


Rosie Knight: But this isn’t just a cover story.


Jason Concepcion: Maya Erskine is somehow named is somehow a sci fi character named Sully, as if this was a sequel to The Town starring Ben Affleck.


Rosie Knight: Or it’s just like a reboot of that, the Tom Hanks pilot movie. That’s right.


Jason Concepcion: So Rokan then runs Ben and Tala through a PowerPoint of Fortress Inquisitorius. So good news. Vader is probably not on Mustafar or Nur. And he is likely on his ship. However, the ship is in the area of Mustafar apparently. Now, I’m going to stop here. This raises an interesting question. How the fuck does Rokan know? Like, who are his sources? This network is is very, very fasacinating.


Rosie Knight: Very legit. And I do.


Jason Concepcion: How do they have eyes on Vader’s ship that they can have intelligence on that? This is actually really interesting to think about.


Rosie Knight: That’s why, I wonder. I think something I mean, I think something they did that was really smart was introducing Indra Varma’s character and having showing that there are high level people in the Empire who left.


Jason Concepcion: Yes.


Rosie Knight: So but what I want to know, we know that there’s not, like, so many cool people in the empire just want to do a rebellion. Yeah. I wonder if those sources of people who want to take down Vader and stop his obsession with Obi-Wan more than they want to help the rebels? Do you know what I mean? Like that balance of political.


Jason Concepcion: We know from the particularly from the Darth Vader series, in particular the the Charles Sewell series, which is the 2017 Darth Vader. So Darth Vader 2015 is Darth Vader after the Battle of Yavin. 2017 Darth Vader is Darth Vader in the first like year onward of him putting on the seat how he makes wow it’s incredible how he how he corrupts the kyber crystal to get the red blade, all the stuff, how he makes his, how he tweaks his suit is battle with Momin, etc. Like how he builds Fortress Vader on Mustafar all of that stuff. And then the current ongoing, which I think began in 2020, which is, is Vader after the events of Empire Strikes Back. So. All of which is to say we know from the 2017 series that. The Empire in general. The shot callers within the Empire. Are very, very distrustful slash jealous of the pull Vader has at his position to his closeness to the emperor. And there’s just a lot of forces that are constantly looking to either undercut Vader or maybe assassinate him, get him out of the way to get closer to the emperor so they can be closer to that font of power. So that would not surprise me. What you said, if there is if there are other imperial forces that are there are machinations going on that other people looking to conspire against Vader for reasons that aren’t necessarily. We want to help the rebellion, you know?


Rosie Knight: Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion: We find out that Fortress Inquisitorius is juts out of the surface of Nur’s vast sea. And no one knows how far down it goes. No one knows, really, what’s in the base itself. The the base is unshielded, which is in part because, as Rokan says, no one no one is dumb enough to go there. And it’s unshielded because, you know, let’s it makes it easier for our friends to get in there. Yeah. Which I appreciate.


Rosie Knight: This is absolute classical Star Wars all day.


Jason Concepcion: Classic Star Wars.


Rosie Knight: There is always a ridiculous flaw in any security, and it is narratively often explained away by the arrogance of the Sith, of the Empire of Vader. But it is also it’s just classic ever. There’s always an easy way, a trash chute. You know, there’s a secret. There’s a guess what in this giant space station. There’s this one particular bit where if you shoot it, the whole thing will blow up. Seems like that was bad. But you know what? That’s what happened with the Death Star, so. And they do it again. So I think that this is I actually thought this was like a very fun tradition nod, you know, this like you can’t have good security. But what this show does really well is they build it in a place that looks terrifying, that looks ominous, that is in the middle of an ocean. So it’s like it’s an Alcatraz-y type situation. You could understand what they were thinking.


Jason Concepcion: But I want to take a moment, since you mentioned there the Death Star to to to tip, tip our cap to Galen Erso, Jyn Erso and the rest of the the heroes of the Battle of Scarif for all of their all of their important for their important and crucial sacrifice in obtaining the the Death Star plans. Okay. So they see the schematics, you know, all the information that they have for Fortress Inquisitorius. And so, like Ben starts pitching ideas. Okay. What about we go in at night T- 47 speeders. We speed in, boom, we’re in the I- 47. Very interestingly and this is again, this is like pre Rebel Alliance stuff. So the T-47 at this time is just used to haul sewage and trash much like much like the Mon Calamari battleships during the Rebel Alliance days where previously just, you know, ships that flew cargo from place to place like they would later be outfitted for military purposes. But this time, they they’re not that. So, you know, Sully is like, wait a sec. You know, we’re not soldiers. We’re not outfitted for like military raids, but Ben, of course, won’t take no for an answer. He is going in whether they help him or not. And Tala is like, listen, as an imperial officer, let me go in. I will be your person on the inside. On Tala’s ship, which by the way, let me read this first and then we’ll unpack this. So on Tala’s ship her millet, her imperial military craft. Tala and Ben are talking about how much Leia means to Ben already. And and and it’s clear that he’s in a weakened state with regards to the force. He can barely move small objects around, but he is fiercely determined to do this. Now, let me talk about this ship. So on Mapuzo, the plan was we get out, we’re going to meet somebody who’s going to fly us to Jabiim, right? But then, you know, Ben stopped to draw Vader, Tala went to help him. And then Leia got to the end of the tunnel and it was Reva there, not the pilot. And then they went off. But then Tala gets Ben out on her imperial ship. Why? Why weren’t we just flying everybody out on the ship before?


Rosie Knight: Or was this a ship that they stole?


Jason Concepcion: Now, now, here’s the thing. You can say that. Okay, well, that’s her imperial ship. And then they would know. But, like, she gets to Fortress Inquisitorial. So nobody’s like, hey, there’s actually no security.


Rosie Knight: Literally no security.They’re just like, Oh, yeah. Good to see you. I mean, it’s, again, classic Star Wars lore. Can you, like, do a funny voice over a radio thing? Hello? No transit. I have, like, a really important. Like, space delivery. Okay. Oh, come on in.


Jason Concepcion: I listen, I understand. It was stressful. Darth Vader was there. We were all super scared, but, like, Tala let’s just take. Just take the ship off. Jump. Like, don’t. Yeah, take that right away.


Rosie Knight: You could have just taken Leia.


Jason Concepcion: Meanwhile, Reva’s interrogation of Leia continues. She is now bearing down hard on the question of The Path. What is it? Who is taking The Path? What do you know about it? Leia asks. You know, trying to buy time, how did Ben die and Reva lies again. He burned to death on Mapuzo. I remind you the cops can lie to you. And then she continues with this pitch. Clearly, that’s the same type of argument that was used on her. Hey, the people who I’m looking for, left your friend Ben Kenobi there to die. I’m your friend now. I am the one who’s here to support you. All you need to do is tell me what you know and you can go home. That’s it. You don’t do that. You just go home. Don’t worry about it. And. But Leia is not a snitch. She’s not a snitch. Now, she will be a snitch during a new hope. Never find, Reva says, and as she begins to tug the gloves off her hands. Meanwhile, Tala has dropped Ben somewhere in the sea of Nur. She lands at Fortress Inquisitorius. Yes. No problem. Landing gear. She manages to bluff her way through security, despite being like in the wrong system, the wrong sector not supposed to be on this planet. She says, listen, I’m carrying crucial classified intelligence. You want to be the one to tell the Grand Inquisitor or whoever else that you stopped important intelligence from getting to them like I wouldn’t want to be you. And so they let her in. Tala finds an empty seat at a control terminal, goes to work. Everybody’s just like, Fine, I guess. But this is actually like when you work in an extremely toxic and scary workplace where like, people can just force choke you at any time because you made a mistake or not even that you didn’t even make a mistake. Just something happened. I would imagine that a lot of people are just like, Man, I’m just going to put my head down and I’m not going to if I see a weird thing, it’s none of my business. I’m just working.


Rosie Knight: Also, I feel like this is like a law of the new era of Star Wars has done this. There’s a great moment in the Last Jedi that I think about a lot. This feels like one of those things that connects to kind of how fans think and talk about this stuff. And that is because fans are making it at this stage, you know? But like a lot of what we think about when we make jokes about Star Wars or things that, you know, think about that SNL sketch with like Kylo Ren, right that from Undercover Boss. A lot of the stuff we’ve always talked about is like, what is it to just be like a worker and start?


Jason Concepcion: Terrible.


Rosie Knight: Why didn’t they put why didn’t they put rails next to where the ships fly out, you know?


Jason Concepcion: There’s no ocean in space.


Rosie Knight: Exactly. And in this way, I feel like this kind of ties into that in and something I think is really interesting is we’re like watching like that. Yeah, sure. It’s been a long time, but it’s still the early ish days of like this organization. And I love the idea that it’s just kind of like a terrible office job that’s always been like, really, really funny. And one of my at that moment I was thinking about from The Last Jedi is like when Kylo Ren’s like, going like bat shit with the lightsaber smashing everything up and the two stormtroopers and then that I know.


Jason Concepcion: But I’m just listen, I’m just trying to get I’m just waiting until my direct deposit drops and I can take my PTO and just relax because this place is fucking scary.


Rosie Knight: Exactly.


Jason Concepcion: So at her, a new workstation Tala guides Obi-Wan into the base and we see Ben under the water. And let me tell you that breaststroke, which we first saw.


Rosie Knight: Strong.


Jason Concepcion: From during the clone war days on the in the oceans and lakes of Naboo on the way to Gunga City hasn’t lost a stroke a step whatever you want to say he is still a very very strong swimmer gets inside easily. Once inside Ben starts taking out guards, Tala’s guiding him towards Leia. Meanwhile, the interrogation continues. Reva is now mind probing the young princess. However, Leia, as we know, Reva does not know. But we know Leia is strong with the force and though she doesn’t know exactly how to use it, it’s clear that Reva is not getting any traction this way, even though it’s taking some amount of exertion from Leia to defend her off. But she is fending her off.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. This is like a very interesting moment because I think, you know, a lot of the jokes we were crackin about the first three episodes and like the their conversations on the Internet were like, is Leia showing force sensitivity? Is that how she’s running away with her little short legs like and actually this is proof like she is this this person here we saw Reva mind read Kamel’s character like in a second she knew everything. She knew where they were going. She knew the plan. Leia’s just chillin given she’s like, Is this a staring contest? And Avery’s like, Oh, you’re strong.


Jason Concepcion: It’s tough. That she’s tough. That was very, very tough stuff. Lola, Leia’s courageous little droid, flies out to defend Leia, but Reva easily catches Lola and gives her a little insight into her upbringing. Her past says, You know, I had a Droid once, but like everything else, it was taken from me. At her workstation, Tala is poring over the fortress’s schematics, and she finds a massive, massive, secure room. Deep, deep down in Fortress Inquisitorius. What the hell is down there? Tala, meanwhile, continues to steer Obi toward Leia, but the route is just very, very guarded. An imperial officer comes over and is like, Who are you and what the fuck are you doing? Come over here and talk to me.


Rosie Knight: The one guy who does this job.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, that. So Tala is forced to choke this guy out, which she does very ably. And meanwhile, on his personal journey, Ben, we see he’s getting stronger with the force. He is cornered, but he’s able to do those little force sound distractions to draw storm troopers away from him. Reva is now going with the carrot approach. Hey, only you can save yourself. So tell me where the insurgents are. Me and you are on the same side. Like, you know, like I understand what you’re going through. I can help you. Everybody else turn their backs on you. They don’t care about you. Ben’s gone. Nobody cares about you. I care about you. Leia is like, Okay, you know what? As long as you promise that no one’s going to get hurt and Reva’s, like, when you hear, no one’s going to get hurt. Totally. Totally. Okay, I will tell you what I know. Yeah, great. Okay. Okay, cool, cool. I just need to first clear it with my dad. Bail Organa of Alderaan, can I talk to him first? He’s kind of a big deal, you know, on Alderaan and like within the Senate, which has now been kind of neutered and had its legs cut out, but still like an important figure in the galaxy. And but, of course, like we’re all on this big imperial team, right? And it’d be no problem telling my dad where I’m at. And Reva’s like, Good try, kid. Now it’s time for the torture droids. Ben finds the secure sector that Tala was wondering over. And this is a huge revelation. It is like a tomb slash trophy room of Jedi who either were thought dead or disappeared during the event. The chaotic events of order 66 or survive. But then people lost track of. And let’s see who’s in there. There is  terroris Anibe trapped in an area. That’s the very first person that that Ben sees. And of course, we know him from the Clone Wars. There is Colman Kcaj, who was a fucking member of the Jedi Council back in the day. Like, that’s a crazy get for them. And there’s many others, including a young Padawan, still wearing his training helmet and a look of absolute fear on his face, which, I mean, I don’t the feeling here, at least for me, was like, wow, they got this kid on the night of Order 66.


Rosie Knight: Very. You’re meant to feel like that might have even been the first.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah.


Rosie Knight: The first trophy that was this great. The face is so scary. There was this Brandon Cronenberg, like Cronenberg’s son. He made this movie called Possessor recently. And the faces in that, it’s like this weird, like, mosque you wear over your real face. And this is what that looks like. Like, I was looking at the eyes. It’s it’s really grotesque and sad. And also to me implies that it’s older than the rest of them. Like, it hasn’t it hasn’t stayed up.


Jason Concepcion: Now.


Rosie Knight: It’s not like I’m healthy.


Jason Concepcion: Now, what could they be doing right? I listen, we know that Palpy, Daddy Palpy loves to clone this guy. Loves cloning. He absolutely loves a fucking clone. I think there’s some cloning shit going on down here.


Rosie Knight: Absolutely. And they are always, as always, you know, there’s medi-chlorians. That’s something you can test in the bloodstream, baby. They’re trying to see. They want to know. They’re like, what’s the force? How do you get it? How do you control how do you make clones that have the force? How can you make people that’d just be choking people out. This is really fun because they do a lot of like still shots. And there’s definitely I mean, they have one woman who’s got like long red hair and she’s in this fancy red dress. And I was like, Oh, my God, it’s Mara Jade. Like, it’s definitely not Mara Jade from the expanded universe, but they have a lot of fun with those visuals. But yeah, I agree. This is absolutely a kind of sick trophy room of people that probably Anakin.


Jason Concepcion: Help captures.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, Or does it he specifically target.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. And now they’re like.


Rosie Knight: It feels like Palpatine’s like you should do this for yourself. It will make you feel good and really Palpatine’s like sucking some blood out so that he can, like, re be reborn in a creepy tentacle machine in, like, 50 years.


Jason Concepcion: Reva. Is now booting up the torture system.


Rosie Knight: She went too far.


Jason Concepcion: You’re going to tell me what I want to know, etc., etc., etc. as the torture machine moves into position. And let me. Here’s a small note for the empire. I’m anti-torture, as I’m sure Rosie is, as I’m sure all our listeners are. It’s bad, it’s terrible. It should not be done. It’s barbaric, it’s medieval, etc. Empire, you got to your torture machines move too slow.


Rosie Knight: Too slow.


Jason Concepcion: Why does it take? Why does it take 15 minutes to boot up the fucking torture machine?


Rosie Knight: Nobody needs suspense.


Jason Concepcion: You’re going to tell me? I guess that’s it. But it’s like it takes forever. For the torture machine to warm up.


Rosie Knight: What about this, it’s because, like, Leia’s face is so small, because she’s a baby and usually it takes about 5 minutes, but it’s taking too long.


Jason Concepcion: Hey, get me, get me the booster seat for Leia.


Rosie Knight: Dude, they could.


Jason Concepcion: A normal person. I need a booster seat for the torture machine.


Rosie Knight: She puts her in this machine that’s like a huge torture MRI and Leia is so small in it. And she’s got these little handcuffs.


Jason Concepcion: This was awful.


Rosie Knight: On. She’s like please, Somebody help me. But she’s lost  in it. She doesn’t care. She’s she’s going to die. It’s going to go to the grave.


Jason Concepcion: Incredibly brave. This is where man, I got to tell you, if they’re going to do a turn back to the light with Reva, it can’t be a complete turn back because this is too far. I can’t watch you torture child Princess Leia, but I understand we didn’t get there. Okay.


Rosie Knight: No, we’ll. She’s going to do that.


Jason Concepcion: But, You are on the way. Yeah, you’re on the way to torture her.


Rosie Knight: I feel like our theory of the the turn is is likely because like so of course Obi-Wan overhears and he’s like oh my God, I need to help Leia, the little baby screaming in there. And so he’s like Tala, make a distraction and she goes and distracts Reva just as it’s about to be torture time. Yes, in the eyeballs. And I feel like Moses and the writers is there is a moment of relief from Reva when she presses the button.


Jason Concepcion: It is clear.


Rosie Knight: You can See that she knew she was about to cross.


Jason Concepcion:  She didn’t want to she didn’t want to do it but she was going to do it. Yeah, that this is she’s going to do it. More on this in a bit. So okay you mentioned that that it there Ben asks for a distraction he’s his force sensitivity is growing. He’s able to feel Leia’s distress and he knows now where she is in the complex. And he tells Tala to make a distraction. Tala does gets a message to Reva, hey, there’s important message for you out here. And I was told to give it to you directly and that you got to I understand that the torture machine is almost all the way booted up, but now you have to.


Rosie Knight: Definitely not a coincidence.


Jason Concepcion: Now, you have to power it down again. You have to power it all the way down here to come out here to talk to this person. So Reva goes out and she sees Tala and Tala is like, hey, great, you’re the person I’ve been waiting to talk to. I have this classified information. I came from Mapuzo. I know all the shit about this that’s going on with The Path they’re using. They’re on Florrum, they’re using a garbage salvage company as cover. So basically they’re like The Sopranos in space. Sounds really believable. Do you believe me?


Rosie Knight: I wasn’t watching this on my space TV recently .


Jason Concepcion: And then Tala is like, you know what else we should do? We should, like, strike at Florrum and just like. And she’s just like, by the root. Let’s do it. Let’s go now. Yeah, she was. Let’s go down to this torture room and let’s go do it now.


Rosie Knight: Everything she’s like, direct everything there. And I’m like, Babe, you oversold it. That was that moment where Reva was like.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Reva’s like.


Rosie Knight: I’ll go.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Reva’s like, You’re lying. Meanwhile, Ben has managed to take out the stormies. He’s guarding Leia, the stormtroopers and he  frees the princess. And Leia’s like, I knew Reva was lying about you being dead. I could feel it. And also, I didn’t say shit. And Ben is like, I love it. I love that you didn’t say shit. Oh,  you’re the best.


Rosie Knight: He’s like, she’s like, I didn’t say anything. And he’s like, I know it’s love. And also he’s like, he knows because guess what? She’s not a snitch. I’ll tell you who would have given up everyone in a second if he was in that torture chair? Obi-Wan Kenobi. This guy’s been hiding in a chair for ten years, and this ten year old was like, never going to happen. My dad taught me better than that. I will die.


Jason Concepcion: And it’s really Leia’s example that is bringing Ben back to the force.


Rosie Knight: And inspiring this rebellion. Like, I love that context that they’re adding here to their relationship and and to the impact that Leih had as a little girl to inspire these people, that then she would go on to lead.


Jason Concepcion: So they’re going they’re leaving. They’re leaving the torture room. And meanwhile, Reva is putting the screws to Tala. She’s like, I think it was you. I think it was you that helped Ben and Leia get off Mapuzo and Tala was like, Oh, okay. But like, I’m a spy, actually. Like, I’m a I’m one of these imperial spies, like top level, super secret shit. And I, like, tricked Obi-Wan Kenobi so that, like, I could come with him. And I’ve been working undercover all this time, and. And then Reva’s like, Great, let’s check the records to see if you’re really an imperial intelligence person on the records. Actually, that’s a psych, I’m psyching you out. Let’s just let’s go to the torture room. Torture the truth about you. Oh.


Rosie Knight: I love it so much. Like Tala has been going to like tattooing improv classes. She is just coming up with these stories. She’s like, you think I’m lying?. Well, guess what actually gets what? And then, yeah, she’s. She is doing like a filibuster, like a galactic filibuster to keep Reva busy.


Jason Concepcion: So in the sub levels now Ben is fighting with the security droids and boom Fortress Inquisitorius as the alarm bells go off. Stormtroopers running back and forth. Tala takes this opportunity to kill her guards. It’s like, I’m not going to the torture rooms. You guys are dead. Meanwhile, Ben is playing BLOCK the Blaster with the stormtroopers and the security droids. And it’s just like the old days. He’s just like bouncing blaster bolts back to their senders. And the bad guys, meanwhile, just can’t shoot. They still can’t shoot. Ben reflects a blaster shot, which cracks one of the windows lining the corridor. Now seawater is beginning to seep in. Meanwhile, the stormtroopers are everywhere. Ben and Leia are hemmed in. Ben manages to close a set of blast doors with a reflected blaster shot. Leia was like ,the window, Ben. And now Ben is using the force to to hold back the sea. The window, though, is hopelessly cracked. It’s crumbling under the pressure. Seawater is is rushing in. This was very cool. This is super cool. Tala arrives just in the nick of time. It’s inspiring to see how Ben, how much stronger Ben is getting with the force by the moment. Ben has Tala take Leia to safety while he continues to hold the window. And then once they’re clear, he lets it go. Runs into the other corridor. They close the blast door and everybody makes out in time. All the stormtroopers are drowning. Fifth brother, meanwhile, has been alerted by the alarms. He’s like, Wait, is something going on? What’s happened? Where the fuck have you been, bro?


Rosie Knight: He was just watching. He was watching The Sopranos. Like, on his little space TV..


Jason Concepcion: He’s just like an empire on empire slack, like, hey, Darth Vader. It’s crazy. Like, Hey, how are you, man?


Rosie Knight: Little meme. Like, this is fine. Meme is like, I. Things are going wrong, man.


Jason Concepcion: But as this chaos is unfolding, Fifth Brother is like, Aha, this is perfect. I’m going to pin this whole fucking mess on Reva and I’m going to grab that Grand Inquisitor job. Now, using the old kid in the coat trick.


Rosie Knight: Unbelievable.


Jason Concepcion: Ben with Tala takes Leia to the landing bay. But Reva is there, light saber out. She confronts him. She’s like, You’re a traitor, Tala. But just when all seems lost here come two speeders piloted by Wade and Sully, they scream into the landing bay strafe the Imperials with devastating effect that that allows Ben and Tala to shoot their way out. Ben, Tala, and Leia board Sully’s speeder while Wade continues to provide cover fire, they speed away. But then Reva uses the force to throw a crate at Wade’s speeder, destroys it. Wade’s dead and Fifth Brother looks at Reva is like, you’re in trouble, though because Leia and Ben and. And the Imperial Traitor got away. And I’m going to tell Darth Vader on you. And let me tell you something. Coach Vader has come in and he is fucking hot. He is mad. He is force choking the shit out of Reva.


Rosie Knight: He’s like, Remember when I told you I was going to kill you if you didn’t do this? It’s time.


Jason Concepcion: This is now It’s. This is it right now. Now it’s happening. And he and he’s like, What do you have to say for yourself? Actually, I don’t care because I’m going to choke you. But then Reva says, Guess what? Actually, I know this looks bad, but actually it’s great because I put a tracker on Obi-Wan Kenobi’s ship and I know where they’re going and they’re going to lead us to the entire rebel. I know we’re not using the word rebel yet, but I’m going to say rebel network. It’s the old tracker in the shit bit. That’s right. The very same trick that I guess Darth Vader will steal from Reva ten years from now.


Rosie Knight: Incredible.


Jason Concepcion: Tto track the Millennium Falcon after it leaves the Death Star. I cannot believe this is where Vader got the idea. And by the way, it must work out pretty well because Vader uses the trick. Right? Looks like, of course, later, when Vader does it, they do find the base on Yavin. But of course, crucially, they let the guy who then blows up the Death Star out of their clutches a thing that gets Vader in significantly hot water with the emperor. Now, again, this must I guess it must work here. Spoiler alert for the next episode, It has  to work because why else.


Rosie Knight: Why else would he copy it?


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, why else would he recycle this idea? So Darth Vader is like, okay, you know what? That’s. Pretty interesting. I’m going to stop choking you now. Good idea. I’m going to file that away for future notice. Fifth Brother is like. But. But, my lord, the piece was almost destroyed. And as we all know, Darth Vader probably should have listened to this little critique because much later, ten years later, his actual Death Star Base will indeed be destroyed. But then again for later, Vader doesn’t care about that. Now, what he cares about is the fact that they are about to get the location of of these Path rebels and of his old master, Obi-Wan Kenobi. And Vader is like, you’re sure, Reva? You’re sure that that tracker’s with Ben? And she’s like, You’re damn right I’m sure. We see the rebels arriving on their carrier. Ben, Leia and Tala, they. They arrive and they greet Rokan and they’re clearly distraught. They’re heartbroken. Rokan’s like, Where’s Wade? And Sully is like, Wade bought it. Sorry, Wade bought it. They’re really soldiers now, after all, Tala says Sully, in particular, is just completely distraught. Leia holds Ben’s hand and then the camera pans down and dun dun dun Lola is the beacon. That’s right. Reva had when Reva caught Lola and was playing around with her, she planted a beacon in that little droid. And this is, again, much like we learned in the Karen Gillan Star Wars series a few years back. This is exactly what Darth Vader does, that the homing beacon on the Millennium Falcon was indeed a Droid. It was a stowaway droid, much like it is now. Amazing developments all around. And did you think of the episode?


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I just I actually all the things that you’re kind of pointing out, this is what I feel like. This show is bringing so much additive value. Like, it’s hard to imagine this, but it’s true, right? When George Lucas made A New Hope, that movie was seen as such a risk that Fox allowed him to keep all the rights.


Jason Concepcion: I mean, that was the thing that made him super, super rich. The merchandizing, all that shit.


Rosie Knight: It’s how Alec Guinness’ family made a lot of money from a percentage of merchandizing, right? Like there was a time when these movies. These movies were like a risk. And even when they became popular, they were still like, this is just a movie and something is happening. And in that way, there’s there’s a slight ness to them. You know, this is like a space opera. It’s just kind of it’s it’s trope it and the this show in particular is building so much context and weight onto these moments by adding this history. I mean, the way that this episode builds up the moment, you know, Leia’s incredible speech, which ends with, you know, help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you’re my only hope. Of course, she would turn to him. She this is a man who, when she was a child, kept coming back, even when he was flawed, even when he bungled it, and was the reason she ended up in the torture machine anyway. He came back and he delivered. And even when he’d been in a cave for ten years, he came out of it to save her. So of course he is the one who she goes to. And I think that is really cool and exactly what these shows should be.


Jason Concepcion: I agree with you. A couple questions where. Spoiler alert for those of you who are not into Star Wars animation, but the Grand Inquisitor, who Reva stabbed through the guts with her light saber is in numerous other stories that happen years from now. He continues on in the role of Grand Inquisitor doesn’t lose his job, but also nobody seems to know that he’s where he is. Like he’s just dead according to Reva and everybody buys it. Obi-Wan killed the Grand Inquisitor and that’s it. And nobody is like, Where’s that? So where’s the fuck is she keeping him?.


Rosie Knight: I think there’s like this very interesting, drooling thing here because Tala says, Oh, you know, I’m going to see the Grand Inquisitor. So some people don’t even know he’s meant to be dead. There is like the base level, like grunt workers don’t know. She told Vader. She’s like, Man, he sucks. He was getting in the way of Obi Wan. He’s dead. I am assuming that maybe another member of the Inquisitorius though they’re not particularly loyal and we haven’t seen the other member this episode. I assume that one of them huddled him away to a back to tank slash Ming-Na Wen Thundercat-esque.


Jason Concepcion: Right.


Rosie Knight: Kind of.


Jason Concepcion: My body modifier or something.


Rosie Knight: Some kind of Darth Maul spider leg like situation, you know how it is in Star Wars. But I feel like and this is totally out there, this is just like a gut check guess, but like. That tomb is obviously the Jedi tomb is obviously somewhere where like no one goes. So I also wonder if he’s down there in like the depths of the Inquisitiorius or something like that would be a place where I think you could keep him without people finding out.


Jason Concepcion: Because she’s clearly keeping him under wraps somewhere. Okay. We talked we talked about it upfront. Reva. Rokan’s wife? Like, what do we think? It felt very pointed to me that Rokan would mention having a wife who is force sensitive.


Rosie Knight: Especially when as we know.


Jason Concepcion: Killed or Taken.


Rosie Knight: There is not meant to be that many force sensitive people depending on the law. I prefer the the Brian Johnson idea that there’s millions of force sensitive people and it’s like a Democratic idea. But that is not necessarily the the normal thing. And we know that force sensitive people are being rounded up, we know they’re meant to have been killed by order 66. So it feels very pointed. And also the way that he says, you know, she was taken, she was gone. Of course, I know what the empire can do. I mean, how much worse would it be if he knows she’s an inquisitor? Yeah, maybe that’s the reason she’s gone, you know? I mean, I would love to see I love O’Shea Jackson. I think he’s great. And he’s like really into this kind of stuff.


Jason Concepcion: He’s super into it. Yeah, he loves Star Wars.


Rosie Knight: He loves Star Wars.So to me, like, I’m always stoked to see him get a role like this. And it was really nice. I think playing like a rebel in Star Wars, one of the coolest roles you can get. So I’d love to see him and Sully kind of expanded on as we go into these last two episodes. I mean, also as well, that could be another thing that could help Reva  turn if she does have that personal connection or she.


Jason Concepcion: She sees him again.


Rosie Knight: Sees him. Helping Leia.


Jason Concepcion: They raid. Yeah, they raid Jabiim and there he is.


Rosie Knight: I think, I think you’re onto something. Yeah. Because if you think about it. Narratively. Why would they need to go to where The Path is? Like they had them there, but you’re leading them back to Rokan.


Jason Concepcion: Right.


Rosie Knight: And to have that interaction and that collision on that planet with that group of people, rather than just like them staying with the Inquisitorius or them ending up somewhere else. So I think you could really be on to something. I’m also really interested to see because I love a droid. It’s obviously going to work to a point. But is Lola going to be able to tell like Leia?


Jason Concepcion: Well, there’s also there’s also the issue of Lola’s eyes being like really red. Ruby red. Right.


Jason Concepcion: Like there’s there’s also that. But what point is it is Leia or anybody look at little Lola and go did she always have red eyes?


Rosie Knight: Leia is very force sensitive like I’m actually going to sense something. So I’m interested to see how they kind of play on that aspect because the relationship between humans and droids and and sentient creatures and their droids and stuff is just like a very cool space in Star Wars lore. And I feel like that’s kind of ripe for, for Lola trying to do something to help Leia in whatever form. But obviously it’s probably going to be after they get back because they definitely showing  down.


Jason Concepcion: Only two more episodes left. I’m loving the show. I can’t wait for more. This has been fantastic. Can’t wait to continue to talk about it with you, Rosie. Well, a big thank you to Rosie Knight, of course, for co-hosting this yet another fine episode of the X-ray Vision podcast. Rosie, what do you have to plug? What do you have to? What are you doing? Where you at? What’s going on?


Rosie Knight: I’m doing some things. Yes, I am Rosie Marx on Instagram and Letterbox. If you want to follow me socially, I am obviously here co-hosting, talking about all this cool stuff. If you want to read more about Black Adam. You can see some pieces that I wrote out on the Internet and I’m sure I will be writing more as well as I had a really cool interview that I did with with the most recent write out of Ms. Marvel, Samira Ahmed of the comic. And that’s going to be up on the net soon. So definitely keep an eye out for that. It’s really great pieci that goes along with with the show. So yeah, just the normal, the normal kind of cool stuff and just like wear a mask and be nice to each other.


Jason Concepcion: That’s it. Please be nice to each other. We need it right now. Folks. Check out our videos on the uncultured YouTube channel and check out our shownotes for the Listener’s Guide to X-ray Vision, where we provide more details on where to find the stuff that we talk about every episode. Catch the next episode, June 17th, where we will continue to dive deep into the seas of Nur as we continue to explore Obi-Wan Kenobi and the streets of Jersey City, where we will continue to talk about Ms. Marvel. Plus, deeper dive into The Boys and coming weeks. Don’t forget five stars rate and review as we want the five stars. Five, five stars, five of them, please. X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video production support. Alex Reliford handles Social Media. Thank you, Brian Vasquez for our theme music. See you next time.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah. Why am I out of my sector? Because I have classified information. How about that? You ever heard of that? Classified information, or just even me telling that to you is like, a big deal. So you better not delay me because you’re going to be in trouble. You’re going to be force choked, as I’m sure you’ve seen people be force choked before. What am I doing at this workstation? I. I needed to check my email and stuff. Does this go out? Does this go outside to the outside Internet? I’m sorry. I’m just a workaholic, you know, like I came here again to deliver some information. I can’t really tell you. I told the security out there, but I just also have other work to do. And I was just doing doing that work as well. I helped Ben and and Leia get off Mapuzo. I mean, what what did happen? What really did happen is that they were running away and he was like all injured from Darth Vader, I guess, I think. And they were like, we need to get out of here. And I was like, Oh, you guys are are Jedi or bad people. And I’m I’m going to trick you by helping you get off the planet. But then I’m going to give the information to inquisitors, which is what I am doing. I’m doing that right now.


Jon Lovett Hey, everybody, it’s Jon Lovett and.


Tre’vell Anderson Tre’vell Anderson.


Jon Lovett And we are so excited to team up to let you know what Crooked is up to this Pride month, we’re bringing you incredibly queer content across the entire Crooked network. That includes What A Day, Lovett or Leave It, Keep It, Strict Scrutiny and more.


Tre’vell Anderson Plus, we’re fundraising for Trans Lifeline, Equality Florida and Trans Education Network of Texas, all of whom are working tirelessly to support the queer and trans communities nationally and locally.


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