Live at South by Southwest: X-Ray Vision Talks Multiverses + Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight Trailer Reactions | Crooked Media
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March 18, 2022
X-Ray Vision
Live at South by Southwest: X-Ray Vision Talks Multiverses + Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight Trailer Reactions

In This Episode

Live from Austin, it’s X-Ray Vision! On this episode, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight perform a live show at South by Southwest! First in Previously On (1:29), Jason and Rosie discuss the upcoming Moon Knight series and the newly released trailer for Marvel Studios’ Ms. Marvel. Then in the Airlock (37:05) Jason and Rosie rank and reason out their top three Multiverses while exploring the historical and narrative importance of the multiverse device across fiction and comics. And finally, Jason and Rosie answer questions from the mailbag and from their live SXSW audience (55:44).


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Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it?


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The Listener’s Guide for all things X-Ray Vision!

Ms. Marvel (2014) Created by editors Sana Amanat and Stephen Wacker, writer G. Willow Wilson, and artists Adrian Alphona and Jamie McKelvie – Khan made her first appearance in Captain Marvel #14 (August 2013) before going on to star in the solo series Ms. Marvel, which debuted in February 2014.

Days of Future Past (1981) Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Terry Austin – a storyline in Uncanny X-Men issues #141–142.

Cube + Cube film series (Canadian series: 1997, 2002, 2004, Japanese remake: 2021) original directed by Vincenzo Natali.

Into the Spider-Verse (2018) – sequels coming in October 2022 & 2023.

DC Crisis on Infinite Earths (1985) by Marv Wolfman & George Perez – followed by Infinite Crisis (2005–2006) and Final Crisis (2008–2009).

Secret Wars (2015) by Jonathan Hickman, Esad Ribic – The storyline involves the destruction of the Marvel Universe and various other alternate universes.





Jason Concepcion: Warning this podcast contains spoilers, we’re going to be at South by Southwest, talking about the multiverse and its depictions in pop culture and comics and movies and TV and such. If you don’t want to be spoiled, be careful and beware when you enter here.


Rosie Knight: Say hello, like you usually do. Hello.


Jason Concepcion: Hello, south by. My name’s Jason Concepcion. This is Rosie Knight.  Welcome to X Ray Vision, the Crooked podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, pop culture. We’re here live at South by Southwest. Yeah. I’ve got so much coffee in my bloodstream right now, and we’re going to talk about a bunch of MCU stuff. We’re here to talk about multiverses and then we’re here to answer some questions and listener questions, audience questions and stuff like that. Rosie, how are you? How’s your Austin experience been thus far?


Rosie Knight: It’s been lovely. This is my first time in Austin, my first time at South By. I have a lot of green tea streaming through my veins.


Jason Concepcion: We’re heavily armed now. It’s wonderful to be here. OK, let’s talk about let’s go to the news previously on. Shall we play the trailer first or should we just talk about it first?


Rosie Knight: Let’s do play it first so people can get a.


Jason Concepcion: OK, let’s play. Can we play the latest trailer of Disney Plus’ Moon Knight series and I’m going to watch it as we play it.


Rosie Knight: Thanks Chris.


Jason Concepcion: Thank you.


Rosie Knight: It sounds dramatic.


Clip: The fun of Moonlight is getting introduced to a new superhero in a new world. It’s a real, legitimate character study. I can’t tell the difference between my weakness and dreams. Moon Knight is a spectacular character who’s got an incredibly unique visual look. Our job was to kind of put a lens on the things that had the most dramatic juice and ultimately take the mental health aspect incredibly seriously. I am Stephen. The way we’re tackling the story, we learn about Stephen and then learn about Mark. What’s wrong with you, Mark? Why did you call me, Mark? And they’re the same person.


Jason Concepcion: Ethan Hawke, one of the elite hat guys.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. Always, always has a brilliant hat.


Jason Concepcion: Umm of our times. So Disney recently shared a press release for this series, Moon Knight, in which they stressed that they’re going to make sure to accurately and responsibly depict dissociative identity disorder, which. We’ve been saying it’s important that’s important to do.


Rosie Knight: It’s really important to do, I’m very interested that they are sticking with the use of this terminology. I have had some very interesting conversations with people who have DID. And it is a very specific mental health ill, syndrome that is very much based in your childhood and the trauma.


Jason Concepcion: Generated by trauma


Rosie Knight: Generated by traumatic childhood. So I I will be interested to see the route they go. I am glad that they want to treat it respectfully and


Jason Concepcion: Which they have explored it recently in the comics as like explore the events that created.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Mark’s DID. That he witnessed something terrible, and this caused his consciousness to be traumatized. And this is the result of this. How this interacts with the supernatural aspects I think will be


Rosie Knight: That’s really the key


Jason Concepcion: Will be really important. And also so this is also they’ve they keep saying this is a standalone series. Which I think translates to “we don’t have Oscar Isaacs locked down for like numerous movies.” So it’ll be interesting to see how this interacts with the rest of MCU’s stuff.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I like the terminology of standalone is very loaded slash meaningless in the MCU. It could mean that they don’t have a good contract. It could mean that they’re not sure how it’s going to be received. But I kind of like it in the terms of the mental health aspect, because if they really want to commit to exploring that in a meaningful way, that brings a kind of representation we haven’t seen before, then they don’t need to worry about deeply connecting it to the rest of it. But I also think this is we’ve talked about this a little bit, but definitely seems like an inroad for Marvel horror.


Jason Concepcion: Yes. So Moon Knight’s first appearance was in the 70s series Werewolf by Night, starring the incredibly named Jack Russell, who was, yeah, who is it was a werewolf, the werewolf by night, as they say, and a moon knight. In his first incarnation, that incarnation was just like a mercenary who was kind of like boondoggled.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: Into fighting. The Werewolf by night was given a costume by some mysterious, shadowy rich guys who were like, Hey, put on this costume, go fight this werewolf. And then that turned out to be that was later retconned into part of Mark Spector’s backstory, which also included him, you know, being contacted by Con Shoe during his time as a mercenary in the Sudan, committing various ethnic cleansings.


Rosie Knight: Yes. Horrible stuff.


Jason Concepcion: He didn’t want to do, but he did. But he also was like taking part of.


Rosie Knight: I think, yeah, we’ve kind of talked about this a lot, but the comics are varied at best in quality and taste. So this is a very interesting. This is definitely, I think, to look to M’baku in Black Panther and the way that they reimagined that character and brought so much incredible heft and humor and complexity. Much of that thanks to Winston Duke. I think that is really the basis of what they’re going to need to do with this character to avoid a lot of that, the problematic stuff. And also as well, like I just want to say, the creator of Werewolf by Night has often said that they did not know Jack Russell was a dog breed and it was just a coincidence. t


Jason Concepcion: C’mon. Don’t. See thats like there’s also there’s also the you know, the creator Moon Knight is also said like, Oh, the Batman parallels. That was like, we didn’t, you know, like, yes, he uses layered boomerangs. Similarly, is like a weird, rich guy who dresses that, you know, like in a very specific costume. It’s but it’s why


Rosie Knight: it’s why it’s


Jason Concepcion: not. And then he fights criminals, punches him in the face, but it’s like, Come on and say,


Rosie Knight: I know, well, I’ve been thinking about this.


Jason Concepcion: Jack Russell is a very famous dog breed.


Rosie Knight: And and yeah, and that kind of the werewolf by night thing is particularly resonant right now because we know that the Halloween special, which is allegedly going to star Gael Garcia Bernal as a werewolf that is apparently in the working title of Werewolf by night, but that will likely be changed by the time it hits screens. Going to be directed by Michael Giacchino, who just did the incredible score for The Batman. So that is very likely that whatever happens in midnight here will be continued in this Marvel Halloween special that will kind of establish more of the horror that has kind of been introduced basically since the end of Eternals. My favorite movie, everyone else’s last movie


Jason Concepcion: Not worst.


Rosie Knight: Thank you for that support.


Jason Concepcion: I would go out and I’ll say that I don’t actually think the MCU is ever made a truly bad


Rosie Knight: I know. I love that.


Jason Concepcion: They’re all like good.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, and well, the end of that movie. Spoiler alert, a certain character Kit Harington, played by Kit Harington, his name’s Dane Whitman in the comics, is known as Black Night. He finds a magical sword that’s evil and will turn anyone into a killer very artifact heavy, which we’ll get into the importance of artifacts in our next trailer. And at the end, Blade Misha Mahershala Ali is there, and he says, You know, you’re not ready for that. And I think that Moon Knight will connect to that. You see him and he’s in the British Museum slash National Gallery. The Dane Whitman character works in another museum in London, and Werewolf by night will likely continue this kind of Midnight Sons Marvel Knights Horror Team Up Expansion.


Jason Concepcion: Let’s let’s go to Ms. Marvel. The Ms. Marvel Trailer and get a little bit more upbeat.


Rosie Knight: Its lovely.


Jason Concepcion: Cue the next trailer, ugh please.


Rosie Knight: Thank you.


Jason Concepcion: Interesting choice to have The Weekend is the soundtrack is a very cocaine heavy.


Rosie Knight: I know I thought that too.


Jason Concepcion: Artist first for a for a story about a coming of age story.


Rosie Knight: I was like, totally, it fits very well, but ehhh the connotations are strange


Jason Concepcion: This was a wonderful trailer. I’m excited


Rosie Knight: Yeah, it’s so lovely.


Clip: OK, so first off, I just want to say, I get it. You get what high school? Kamala? Another Avengers shirt? Cute. She thinks I’m some kind of weird o. You are a weirdo. Boys. Excuse me. Yeah. You’re kind on my shirt. Sorry. But you’re staring out the window in your little fantasy land? Kamala, hey. All righty. Really? Do I have to figure out my whole future before llunch first like? Did something happen to you?,No, why did you hear something? Kamala? What does it feel like? Cosmic. I always thought I wanted this kind of life. But I never imagined any of this. Do you know what you are? I’m a superhero.


Jason Concepcion: Oh, OK, so much to unpack.


Rosie Knight: I love her.


Jason Concepcion: I love her, too. Iman Vellani is the title character, Ms. Marvel. Created by Bisha K Ali, who’s written for Sex Education, a really, really funny British sitcom, Loki, Four Weddings and a Funeral. OK, so in the comics, Ms. Marvel gets her powers because of the explosion of a terrigen bomb which contain the terrigen mist, which is how in humans powers are unleashed in that particular alien race. She is putting some bracelets on which we think are the quantum bands


Rosie Knight: Slash nega-bands


Jason Concepcion: Slash nega bands, probably some sort of amalgamation of the two, which is a Kree artifact.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I think that something that’s really telling in listening to this trailer along with you guys that you luckily got to watch is when when somebody asks her how it feels, she says, cosmic. And the quantum bands are a cosmic artifact that Eon this kind of ancient space creature in his daughter Epoch would bestow among people that they felt worthy to protect the universe. And in the quantum band form, they take energy and manifest energy from the quantum zone, which in the MCU exists as the quantum realm, which we’ve seen in Ant-Man and the Wasp, and will likely play into the, you know, easily to remember name Ant-Man Quantumania. Quantum Quantum Quantum. So, yeah, I think that is very much what we’re seeing here, and it allows her to manipulate matter, it seems. So she still has. If you’ve read those comics, you probably recognize that the end the brilliant Jamie McCorvey cover from Issue five, where she sang on the lamp.


Jason Concepcion: With the embigoned.


Rosie Knight: And and you see the embigoned hand. That’s her big thing.


Jason Concepcion: Embigoned hand.


Rosie Knight: Embigoned from Simpsons, you know, the famous Jedidiah Springfield episode. And that’s what she says, she says embigoned and her hand gets really big and and so they had to bring that aspect in in a different way that isn’t too close to Reed Richards from the Fantastic Four. Mr. Fantastic. He’s got those elastic kind of powers in the comics. How how is a very similar? And so I think this is their way of doing something is a little bit different, a little bit more unique and a little bit more like Kamala.


Jason Concepcion: Heres. So theory about where these bands come from, we saw and you were talking in the green room about how the ten rings, it was like this ancient artifact turned out. It was like alien shit. But. And I think it’s going to be similar here.


Rosie Knight: Maybe from the Eternals, maybe .


Jason Concepcion: I think this is I think it’s going to be a similar thing here where it’s like a Richard Ryder type figure escapes the destruction of a planet and


Rosie Knight: The Anhilists kind of


Jason Concepcion: Something like that, right? It contains the power and wisdom of this alien society. And somehow it was just like they thought they were like cool bracelets or something. And some said it’s been in her family or it’s been.




It was like kept by some people because they thought they were just cool and and she discovers them somehow.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. So something that we talk about a lot on just in general as friends and on the show is Marvel and DC like love to rip each other off,.


Jason Concepcion: Love to do.


Rosie Knight: Get one over on each other.


Jason Concepcion: Never. They never stop doing it.


Rosie Knight: Thanos is obviously the biggest example ripped off from Dark Side.


Jason Concepcion: By Moon Knight Batman.


Rosie Knight: And you know, and and and Marvel did something incredibly smart and savvy and losing. They lost most of their characters because of licensing deals, and they made Thanos their cinematic bad guy before dark side. So by the time DarkSide showed up in DC, it looked derivative, right? So there is a big chance that they’re essentially going to Green Lantern Kamala Khan here. Right? And in Green Lantern, you’re chosen by the alien Hal Jordan’s chosen because he’s worthy of the phrase


Jason Concepcion: famously embigoned his hand and


Rosie Knight: loves being and in big in hand. While he’s making a hand, he’s making a hammer. Yeah. Imagination, but is always just the giant hands he loves every time, like. So I think that this I think you’re right. I think this is going to be something where Kamala is worthy to have the bands it’s she could be chosen herself or something that I think could be really nice. We see in this trailer had sort of looking she’s either hiding them in a box or finding them in a box in her attic. And a lot of the comic, which was created by Sanomat Stephen Wacka, you know the brilliant G Big Lie Wilson. Adrian Alfonzo was the first series artist, and Jamie McCorvey designed that costume. So like that, it’s a really incredible stuff. And in those comics, a lot of the conflict comes from Kamala and the legacy of being a superhero and the legacy of being a Muslim teenager. And I would love to see this kind of maybe these bands have been in her family. Maybe her grandma was someone that the alien trusted to have them, but she didn’t know what they were or she she wasn’t interested in pursuing that. I think there’s a really interesting potential of building a legacy and because they. Made they designed these bracelets to match Kamala’s costume, which is a kind of like very Muslim inspired outfit, and I think there’s something really interesting that we could see with that.


Jason Concepcion: I think that I think that you’re right and that she will be chosen by whatever is in the bands like that clearly. They weren’t just thinking other people must have worn these. So why didn’t they access the powers? OK, so this is there are scenes in this trailer of, you know, black SUVs pulling up and what we, you would imagine, are some sort of like government agency that is


Rosie Knight: we saw damage control


Jason Concepcion: hunting, hunting for these weapons or they damage control or there’s someone else. And then we see appearing through the mist, these four figures, very cheeky. So recall the comics version Come on, laycon, it’s unleashed. Her powers are unleashed by the terrigen mist. Here we have these four figures appearing out of a mist. Are they Inhumans or someone else? I think that there’s going to be two groups chasing, Yeah, Miss Con. It’s going to be some governmental group, be it damage control or someone. Now this is again, this is how this is cheating. But I looked at the IMDb and there’s an act of blessing. This is cheating and we don’t usually do this. But so there’s a character who is called a nice agent and I see now recent Disney Plus strategy has been to take like a minor, minor, minor, minor like sub henchman of a minor villain and kind of blow them up a little bit. So there is a character named Mister Nice. Yeah, who is like a henchman of Arcade, who is famously an X-Men villain? Yes. So theory Mister Nice or that or nice is a group that is like damage control. Yeah, is out here trying to find power up stuff, mystical stuff, ancient artifacts that contain who knows what and is trying to cobble those together for the purposes of evil shit. And then later, we will discover that the director of Nice is this arcade figure.


Rosie Knight: I think you are onto something here because so, so one of the things that the Ms. Marvel comic did really well and a lot of comics at this time, which was the Marvel now imprint, they did this really ground level storytelling that brought to life kind of real issues. So there’s a great Miss Marvel arc about gentrification, but really, the gentrification is being done by Hydra, and it’s this kind of evil scheme, right?


Jason Concepcion: Doctort Strange had the same issue, but it was like demons that were trying to buy his by the sanctum and turn it into like, I think, a Walgreens.


Rosie Knight: I think that it would be one of those really beautiful ones like the CVS in Hollywood they’re like a giant old, beautiful building. But I think that the nice agents, if that is a thing, it would be a really good if if if it would be a really good play on a current issue that America is having with ice and taking ice and all night in the comics arcade in certain stuff like the Mike Carey Age of X I love Mike Carey is one of my favorite writers in that arcade runs a prison where he’s putting people with who are mutants, and in that it’s very extreme. It’s a dystopian world where Charles never existed. Charles Xavier Cyclops is killing people with laser eyes like they make him kill his brother. It’s very brutal, but a more grounded version of that that would fit into your theory would be if the nice agents were establishing something that we know the MCU has to have going into the future if they want to introduce the X-Men, which is if the nice agents are trying to capture and stop people who have powers right, then we can start building to that idea that people with powers are oppressed. People with powers are in danger, and that’s when you have the rise of Jazzi de Vil, the rise of someone like Magneto. So I think the nice agency is a very good theory. And also, I think there’s a chance that. There’s some kind of alien, there’s going to be some kind of aliens who want the bands back.


Jason Concepcion: Right now, I think for our four figures who appear out of the mist, I think that that is, ah, whether they’re Kree or someone else. I think those are four aliens who are like, Oh, the bands are activated.


Rosie Knight: Exactly.


Jason Concepcion: We gps located it to Jersey City. Let’s go get them back. And I think those are going to be the people who, you know, teach Ms. Khan about the lineage of these bands and help her find her place as a hero in this in this firmament. But who are they? Are they humans? Are they Kree?


Rosie Knight: Are the allies? Are they enemies? Like also, I think something we kind of haven’t really. Impressed upon enough is like if these are quantum bands on egg bands and are directly connected to the Kree, it’s really nice because in the comics and in the show, as you can see, like Kamal, Kamala’s biggest hero is Carol Danvers, who is Kree. So it adds a really nice layer and connection to the kind of hero who made her want to be a hero.


Jason Concepcion: What are the chances that that this is how they introduce Inhumans? Like, not the ABC version of the Inhumans? This is the MCU Inhumans with good wigs


Rosie Knight: Ahh the wigs don’t. Don’t give me the trauma.


Jason Concepcion: Wig budget folks.


Rosie Knight: You have a show with Medusa and she has her hair they shaved her hair off in the first episode.


Jason Concepcion: I understand that this space is changing quickly and that the budgets are not like the budget numbers. It’s not like what people are used to, but you just have to spend a lot of money on wigs if you want


Rosie Knight: you have to.


Jason Concepcion: You have to do it.


Rosie Knight: I do think I would have been of the mind for a long time that we wouldn’t see an inhuman. I don’t think they’re going to make Kamala an inhuman. I think that’s out of the picture.


Jason Concepcion: I think it’s out of the picture too.


Rosie Knight: But we have seen that Kevin Feige is not afraid of taking things that have been in those ABC shows the dark cold, you know, and reintroducing them in a way that is carried into the MCU. That kind of says this could be the same thing, but also might not. And I think that is quite likely with a version of the Inhumans.


Jason Concepcion: So with if? If the, our nice agent, is related to Arcade. Here again, we’re seeing the kind of sprinkling of like X-Men stuff into this universe, which raises a question like how do the X-Men appear? Which and then you had a really?


Rosie Knight: Isn’t that the biggest question?


Jason Concepcion: That is the huge question, like, is it going to be? And the question basically breaks down to two sub questions, which is, is it going to be all at once like quickly? We’re going to see them soon. They’re just going to like pop in or are they going to lay the groundwork where you understand about meeting oppression? We understand about like, you know, Weapon X, they reckon the Super Soldier Program and to some sort of offshoot of weapon acts and actually like people have been experimented on brutally, not just Isaiah Bradley for a long time. Logan is somewhere like in a subdivision in Canada, like right now being experimented on.


Rosie Knight: Even the Logan Canon of the movie, just titled Logan, where they have the kids in the Weapon X program that feels very MCU ish that feels like it could really be existing.


Jason Concepcion: Or. Do they do the Wanda mashing up of world?


Rosie Knight: So I wonder if I have seen recently a theory online. I cannot take credit. It’s too good. I’m sad. I can’t take credit because I love a wild theory. I’ve seen a theory online that claims that the MCU, as we know it is actually just a house of M style projection that Wanda created to make a world without mutants. So once that shatters, you would just have mutants existing in the world. That’s very cool. It would absolutely shake up the MCU, but I don’t know if Kevin Feige is ready to do that.


Jason Concepcion: Is Kevin Feige ready to say all of this didn’t matter, but here’s


Rosie Knight: All of this isn’t real.


Jason Concepcion: But here’s the thing. Hasn’t the TVA already established that it’s not real, right?


Rosie Knight: Exactly.


Jason Concepcion: Like the introduction of the TVA already kind of said all of this has happened before we’ve been doing this endgame, the time heist, all that stuff has happened multiple times. It’s just happening in cycles and in very controlled way. And so all of it kind of didn’t.


Rosie Knight: Exist,.


Jason Concepcion: Sort of exist or matter.


Rosie Knight: I think the most telling thing is like, so no way home was kind of this unbelievable cultural phenomenon where they somehow managed to recreate the anticipation and energy of endgame just a few years later without 10 years lead in right. I think that the fact that they’re already trying to replicate that with Dr. Strange, Oh look, it’s Patrick Stewart. Like, who else could be in the Illuminati? I think they really want, you said a really good thing where you were like, they’re making that, forcing the team up movies because they don’t have the teams. And I think that aspect where they want to have that moment, spoiler alert where Charlie Cox catches the the brick and you know, that’s daredevil. And they won’t be able to scream and and you want to say you want to see someone being like, I want to see Charles Xavier and then he walks through, they want those moments. And that makes me think as much as for a long time. I thought, Kang, Jonathan Majors, I love you. I love you. Like, I’m ready for that. I thought that meant we were getting five years of Fantastic Four Galactus, so that’s


Jason Concepcion: Five years is a long time, especially in the current climate where, you know, World War three.


Rosie Knight: Ehhh..


Jason Concepcion: You never know. It could happened.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, I think that I thought that that Fantastic Four and then maybe you’d get the X-Men in five years and, you know, we’d get a little San Diego Comic-Con. They’d play like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo and it’ll be, you know? Now I actually think like I think.


Jason Concepcion: Fast. I think it might be fast. Yea


Rosie Knight: I think Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness could just shake up everything, and we could ban that MCU as a projection. Or we could suddenly we could have that moment that a lot of fans have thought. Let there be mutants like, let there be people with powers instead of no more mutants.


Jason Concepcion: I am coming around to that too. Because I, you know, I was firmly during, you know, Falcon and the Winter Soldier era, which feels like a million years ago. But I think it was only like 10 12 months ago.


Rosie Knight: Some months ago.


Jason Concepcion: I was pretty convinced, OK, they’re going to like they’re going to they’re going to kind of lay this, you know, lay the groundwork, make us understand that like after, you know, Civil War and the Accords and all end and the blip that people are like, actually, maybe powered people are really bad. Yeah. And everything has been really shitty since they appeared and like and public opinion will turn against them. And then you will have a government program against powered people, et cetera. And then you will have the X-Men appear in that in that context. And now I think we don’t we don’t really have the team up movie. You know, it’s like they’ve they’ve made the various standalone movies into teen movies now. They’ve been doing that for a while with like Captain America Civil War, but they’re really doing it now with with no way home, with quantumania, with Doctor Strange all going to be team up movies. But where is the actual team? We don’t have an Avengers team. Fantastic Four on the horizon, but I feel like they will introduce the X-Men sooner than we think.


Rosie Knight: I think so too, especially because our next team is probably going to be the Young Avengers in whatever guise, whether they call them the West Coast Avengers, what they call them the Young Avengers. But that could be in Disney Plus TV. That could be in a movie, maybe. But I think the broadness of it is probably Fantastic Four and X-Men at the same time and some kind of x slash vs. Avengers all situation or secret wars, which we we’ve been saying could happen for a long time.


Jason Concepcion: Like, that’s the big.


Rosie Knight: And if you bring Fantastic Four and then you can do secret was really easy.


Jason Concepcion: I’ll just say that as a as a comic fan, this has been a fantastic period of my life to go to the movies.


Rosie Knight: Seriously.


Jason Concepcion: It’s been really great, but and I’ve loved every second of it. But if when they bring in the X-Men, I will lose my shit.


Rosie Knight: I know.


Jason Concepcion: I’ll lose it.


Rosie Knight: It’s hard to think about it. It’s hard to conceive it


Jason Concepcion: I’l truly lose it. l’ll lose it.


Rosie Knight: I know this is going to make a lot of people in here feel really old, old, really young. Dude that X-Men movie came out twenty two years ago.


Jason Concepcion: Its truly crazy.


Rosie Knight: That shit is old! That feels to me like that feels to me still like a recent. It’s like, Oh, that’s when superhero movies start at Sam Raimi Spider-Man, you know, I mean, that’s two decades ago. Like that there is time for a new X-Men movie and.


Jason Concepcion: I’ll truly lose it.


Rosie Knight: It’s going to be the casting the moment that we is going to see.


Jason Concepcion: It’s going to incredible.


Rosie Knight: I know we’re going on an X-Men tangent, but we both love the X-Men, so it’s fine. What do you think? OK, so when the MCU comes, do you think it’s going to be, my choice. I know my choice is giant size. But do you think they’re going to do classic five or giant size?


Jason Concepcion: Well, I think it has to be. I think you have to have. Cyclops, I think you have to have Storm,


Rosie Knight: so you’re, its Giant Size basically right. I agree


Jason Concepcion: I think you have to have Wolverine, right Because I think he’s going to be. A very important character that ties in a lot of like the super soldier program like actually grounds it in a lot of the stuff that has already happened. Like we’ll find out that actually there were offshoots to the Super Soldier program and Logan is part of that, but also a mutant. And I think you have to have obviously Charles Magneto’s got to be in there as like the foil and then I don’t. Who who do you think?


Rosie Knight: No, I think you’re right. I just to me, I think that’s the way.


Jason Concepcion: Jubilee.


Rosie Knight: Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: I don’t know.


Rosie Knight: I love, I think, and I think the most realistic version is a melding of giant sized.


Jason Concepcion: Right.


Rosie Knight: And of 92, because that is the key problem I think with. I also think that if we look at how the MCU is now, there is a space to have multiple iterations like you can have a younger class who is in Charles’s school or storm school. Maybe Storm will be the headmistress. We don’t know what introducing Charles and specifically Magneto in this timeline with this lightning timeline is a very complex. Proposition, and they’re going to have to work really hard to work out how to make it work. So there’s I think there’s a lot of different ways where we could see different generations of them. I think Storm might actually be the first X-Men that they introduce because they have she has such a deep connection to Black Panther. I do not want Stone to get married to Black Panther, by the way. I was not a fan of that storyline. I don’t think that’s how it should be done. But she has a brilliant connection to a condo. And that would be such a great space to introduce and welcome kind of forever where we’re going to be potentially going to the savage land. We’re going to potentially be making Nemo. I think Storm is such an iconic character and such a beloved X-Men and also a beloved hero in our own right. I think she could be our our first major X-Men that we meet.


Jason Concepcion: I agree with you. This was a really fun segment, and now we should move on because I think how much time do we have left God?


Rosie Knight: The half of it, half of it was just talking, but the both of those things are relative to the multiverse so its all good.


Jason Concepcion: I agree. When we’re back, more multiverse.




Jason Concepcion:  OK, so let’s talk about multiverses, then let’s talk about multiverses, parallel universes. All this stuff that is happening. And first of all, let’s talk about our favorite multiverse is the multiverse is really a it’s a fascinating construct in that it is a way to basically cheat and includes, like every iteration of every character that you want. You can have them fight against each other. Both DC and Marvel have their versions of the multiverse. I think diseases is fascinating in that it’s an outgrowth of just the way the comics industry existed at the time. You had all these different creators creating comics at a super, super fast clip. Like every few weeks to a month


Rosie Knight: So many comics coming out every week, there are so many different creators. There was no cohesive.


Jason Concepcion: There was no like overarching like editor. And so you had like a Superman over here doing this and then you had a younger Superman,


Rosie Knight: ANd then you had Superman and Lois Lane, Superman’s girlfriend. And you had and then you had Dark Knight, Batman. You know, you had all these different versions of the characters, and DC created the multiverse as a way to explain it away.


Jason Concepcion: Right. And so then you have crisis.


Rosie Knight: And I love that.


Jason Concepcion: You have Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is DC’s attempt to be like, OK, we got to like tame this somehow by creating like this massive multiverse of war


Rosie Knight: So we can streamline it into one timeline where we can control what, what is going on.


Jason Concepcion: So let’s talk about it. What are our favorite favorite multiverse? Would you like to start? I will.


Rosie Knight: I will start just because it’s on the topic of what my I love the Marvel Multiverse because the Marvel Multiverse in the comics is one of my absolute favorite things, which is something that is almost entirely defined by fans. Fans were the people who created the Earth designations. You know you’ve had of six on stage. You’ve got the Earth where there’s zombie marvel stuff happen. You’ve got that. And these were actually fans who were like this. We’re going to call it this, like the first mention of six one six, which we know we use as a offhand term for the main Marvel Universe. That’s kind of controversial in the comics, but has been used as a joke in the movies. That was actually from an Alan Moore comic like a Captain Britain thing. It was an offhand mention and fans latched onto it and they were like, That’s the main Marvel universe. And to me, that constant conversation between fans and creators is what makes this stuff exciting. So I love that Marvel had this messy world where there’s so many different versions of their characters, and all these different teams and fans just started organizing it for them to the point where Marvel was like, Oh yeah, that’s right. They were like, Molly, that’s right. Yes.


Jason Concepcion: Six Yeah, that’s what it’s called and were


Rosie Knight: so hard to create all these different answers for you. You’re so lucky. Yeah, yeah. And I think that is just so cool. And also, I love that because of that, we get stories that actually play into the multiverse. We talk a lot about secret wars like the Jason Tower and Assad Rubik make big stuff and like that is so fun. I’ll never forget that spoiler alert. The story is like that they’re trying to get. They’re trying to make everything part of this main universe, so they’re going to destroy all these other worlds, right? And the way that they showed at the end, what they really wanted to do was bring Miles Morales into the main Marvel universe because he’s brilliant and they knew. So what they did was they on the final page, 10 Miles wakes up. He’s in that universe, and they changed the lettering style. That’s all it was. It went from mixed case to taps, which is what they do in the Marvel Universe. And I remember reading that and being like, Oh my God, like, I know that he is in this world now, and I kind of love the way that it gives creators control over like this was really cool, and it was meant to just be this doorway thing or is meant to only exist in the ultimate universe. But I love it. So actually, they jump to remote multiverse, a portal. And guess what? Now they’re in the main MCU like that to me, is very powerful and fun.


Jason Concepcion: I love secret war. Secret war is you, said Ruby. Yeah. Version of Secret Wars because it’s basically like the Illuminati. This collection of dudes in the Marvel, you know, dudes power dudes of the Marvel Universe. We’re like, OK. Nobody can know what’s happening with these incursion, like various parallel universes are crashing into ours. How do we fix this? I know we did. We kill everyone. We totally destroyed in reality, but we don’t. We can’t tell anybody we’re doing this because they’ll be mad at us. Captain America, understandably, will be super mad, so we’re just going to do it. And this results in the secret war. And it’s basically like this entire crossover was just like the power dudes of the MCU fucked up.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, and you end up with like God and produce, which is like the most bad ass name villain of all time. But I just I think that I love the Marvel one is kind of as. Much created by random create is making all these different stories in an age where comics were coming out, you know, hundreds of thousands of comics every year, and it was sort of shaped by fans being like, Well, we need this to make sense. And Marvel is just like, Yeah, that’s what we meant to do. Like that to me, is so cool about what’s one of your faves.


Jason Concepcion: Into the Spider-Verse was just like,


Rosie Knight: I mean, it’s


Jason Concepcion: just a adrenaline shot of a movie that is so, so so, so fun. They did the multiverse before the MCU managed to do it, which is great.


Rosie Knight: They likely introduced the multiverse to mass audiences. That is, most people’s understanding of the multiverse is through


Rosie Knight: that beautifully made movie.


Jason Concepcion: It’s a it’s a heart wrenching movie that hits your that hits your feelings when you least expect it to do that. It is a adrenaline shot of a movie with like some of the most insane action. And I mean, when Miles does his leap, it is like you want to erupt out of the out of your seat. It’s so, so fun.


Rosie Knight: It also did one of the things that I think these kind of stories can do so well where like error is a random kind of comparison. But in New X-Men, the Grant Morrison Frank Quitely book, they they introduced this different vision of Cyclops, who’s kind of flawed. And that was the first time I liked Cyclops, and I thought that was it. And I think he’s too much of much of a good boy for me. But like, I like the I like the flawed like he’s having a psychic effect, and I think that something Spider-Verse does that is so brilliant, is it? It takes the, you know, we’ve always seen Peter Parker. He’s emotional, he’s this ground level hero. You can relate to him. Anyone can be like him, but he still has this kind of sheen of of a young boy who doesn’t really. He doesn’t really make mistakes, but he’s always putting his family at risk. But I loved the version of Peter Parker, where you actually got to see what does it do to you when you have always put your family at risk and you’ve always, like, sacrificed your life and it just doesn’t work out like that was one of the most unexpectedly like hilarious but also like heart wrenching things that they introduced in that movie.


Jason Concepcion: The other thing I love about multiverses is just like, we’ve talked about it in a little bit here, but how much? Marvel and DC just rip each other off shamelessly all the time. It’s like part of the dynamic of liking this stuff is just being OK with the fact that


Rosie Knight: like like, you know, I’m not going to say it’s one of my favorites, right? Because it’s it’s not necessarily something I go back to all the time the way I did. But like, I will say that in the fun of the ripping off conversation, that most of the reason that anyone who just randomly watches TV or isn’t really into comics knows what a multiverse is is because of the CW shows which you’ve been doing guys for like 10 years. And now Marvel came in and they’re like, Hey, we’re doing a multiverse. And I was like, Oh my god, wow. And I’m just like, You guys are so cheeky. Make The CW has literally been seeding this stuff with like moms who love Green Arrow and and people who don’t necessarily read comics. They had a Crisis on Infinite Earths event where they naturally 80 whatever you want. I mean, and then when they did the TV version, they literally had people from the movies coming to the TV, and that was like so groundbreaking. Even if you know it’s a little bit corny, it’s it’s it’s it’s its own world. But like, I just think it’s so interesting that how these kind of things feed off of each other because so many people that understanding of that is probably because, oh yeah, I remember that one episode of that of Arrow. I mean, they had stuff in The CW. I think one of the most interesting things that DC has always done, they the only thing that we used to say. Marvel movies terrible in the 90s, you know, it was Captain America, I love that bad Captain America movie like DC, the Captain America captain makes these daredevil in the Hulk special or even, you know, even the Fox, you know, Daredevil Elektra bring me to life on the best scenes of a movie of all time. No. Five, Right? No, for the right reason. But like we say, the Marvel movies, those are bad. Yeah, but the DC animated movies, that’s what superhero movies should be. And because of that, and because DC knew the quality of those, they have always basically aligned. Those movies can exist in a multivessel space next to that other stuff. And with the CW stuff, something I found really interesting was they actually had characters and storylines that they were doing an animated stuff that would enter into the CW live action shows and the canon of the cartoons would be in there. So I just think it’s really interesting how this kind of stuff is really experimental and it’s becoming really mainstream, but it is something that’s been in the conversation for a really long time, really, really


Jason Concepcion: long time. What’s your next favorite multiverse?


Rosie Knight: My next favorite multiverse? Oh, there’s so many. There’s a multiverse of multiverse is I’m going to bring up one. It’s so silly. But we were talking about yesterday, and I love talking about like bad movies. So I when I was a kid, I watched Cube, and it’s a weird horror movie about these people stuck in a torture cube. But what? It’s very terrifying. It was. It was a big influence on like soul, for example, because it’s all filmed a moment. But one of the sequels, Cube Zero, is a string theory film about multiverse is where every cube is living alongside each other in a different universe of its own. And it’s absolutely mind blowing and just completely ridiculous. But that’s one of my favorites because I’m like, That’s the most horrific version of a multiverse. Y’know, multiverse is this? Oh, here’s a different version of this character we love, and in this one, they’re a bit silly or they wear a different costume. And in this one, it’s like in every multiverse, in every universe, you are just stuck in a torture cube. It’s just horrible.


Jason Concepcion: I’m going to pick DC Crisis on Infinite Earths just because this is the classic. And it’s interesting because like when you think about the big crossover events of that era between Marvel and DC, it’s like so emblematic about like the cultures of those two companies. DC Crisis on Infinite Earths was all about we’ve got all this crazy canon that doesn’t make sense. We just need to like, actually go in and garden and like, make it all makes sense because


Rosie Knight: of what creative team marvel from George Press. That’s like the that’s the stuff.


Jason Concepcion: And then and then you had secret wars, which was literally just like, How do we OK, cash grab time. Let’s go. Marvel’s Secret Wars, which I loved as a kid in REC and then in retrospect, was not it’s a toy.


Rosie Knight: It was to sell toys. There’s actually toys that went along with it. Where are really cool. Like, it’s like Spider-Man. He has this weird wheel toy. It’s like a vehicle that he would be in in each of the issues. That stuff that I have a secret was coloring book, which one of my prized possessions lots of can coloring in there. So actually, that’s a very it’s a cash grab, but it’s now a relevant cash grab.


Jason Concepcion: You know, it’s it is quite irrelevant. We’re not to DeRay list, but Kang, like, where is he? He’s everywhere. Where is where are we going? It’s interesting because it’s like Thanos. You kind of understood where he would appear.


Rosie Knight: It’s hard because like you feel like, where was Kang in no way home, right? It it seems like he would have been there. So I think I think he’s got to be somewhere pulling some strings, maybe having a Thanos style end credits scene in Multiverse of Madness because it feels like if that is a multiverse or story, and we’re talking about these timelines being out of control or Steven messing things up as he always does. Kang is probably somewhere like this lucky guy again. Like, what the fuck is wrong with him? Like, he just can’t stay his fancy boujee New York apartment and behave himself.


Jason Concepcion: If you can’t rearrange reality. With a kid talking to you, don’t do it.


Rosie Knight: It’s not hard, like if you say, you know what? He’s not Sorcerer Supreme.


Jason Concepcion: If you can’t do it while someone’s saying stuff to you, then just stop and don’t mess with it.


Rosie Knight: That’s yeah. Just don’t know what I’m


Jason Concepcion: saying, Stephen, you’re classic. You know the hubris of this man. It’s it’s he’s


Rosie Knight: he’s a king of hubris. That’s the problem. You’re next. OK, I’m a go for I can’t believe neither of us said it yet. Actually, days of future past. Yeah.


Jason Concepcion: So I’m going to take that as the


Rosie Knight: next one is Days of Future Past. One of my favorite things about this is a incredible story arc. You know, this thing changes the Marvel Universe in like two issues.


Jason Concepcion: It’s two issues like if that was today, they’d be like a ten issue limited


Rosie Knight: series and it was like multiple seven spinoffs.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, like, you know, like and they’d have like a point five issue that was


Rosie Knight: like zero zero zero. She’s like, No, I love that stuff. I mean, unbelievable like iconic creative team Chris Claremont, John Bambu, Tomato Tomato, Terry Austin,like um, but just like unbelievable stuff there and


Jason Concepcion: created a blog and he ruined it for


Rosie Knight: everyone, for everyone anyway.


Jason Concepcion: Sometimes bad opinions. That’s got that bad vibes.


Rosie Knight: But those two issues are so great and I love, you know, that famous cover where it’s like they’re all dead and in everyone’s dead. I spoke to Louise Simonsson, whose iconic X-Men create the Super Mario X-Men edit, and she had just randomly thought that was like a funny joke to put on. She was like, That would be great when I’d be a great design. And I think that’s one of the coolest things. It sums up one of the best things that book was not made to create a multiverse that was just a cool time travel story. But the impact of the story led to other creators saying, Oh, well, what? With the other versions of this be, what would have happened because of these two issues? And that, I think, is the summation of what makes the multiverse so cool. It’s a cool idea for these things that are seen as disposable, that printed on the cheapest paper that are bought by kids and are meant to be forgotten. But their impact is so much longer. And then something like Days of Future Past can become like a key moment in all of Marvel history because everyone else is like, Wait, I want to know, like what happens to the people in that timeline, like? And then you get so many different characters from that. I just I just think it’s brilliant.


Jason Concepcion: We should probably move on because we’re like against the clock. But I think so. Those are our top three. But I will say this one thing that I will a soft prediction they’ll do in Age of Ultron. Ultron is we’ll come


Rosie Knight: back at some point. I think I call, I’m calling it already.


Jason Concepcion: Ultron is in space. He uploaded his consciousness into whatever some like massive machine.


Rosie Knight: We see those Ultron esque bots, locomotives, the madness trailer, which I would say if we imagine that Killmonger is one of the Illuminati who we see or one of the group we see in the trailer, then those are probably his Ultron. But bring back James Spader. Bring back James Spader. I love James Spader. I love James Spader as Ultron. I will be happy to hear his dulcet tones once again telling us the internet destroyed the


Jason Concepcion: world when we’re back more of our live show at South by Southwest. X-ray vision is brought to you by keeps bad news. Two out of three men will experience some form of hair loss by the time they’re thirty five. You’re in the prime of your life. Peak physical condition You’ve never been stronger, smarter or better looking, except you bald. Now, more than 50 million men in the U.S. suffer from male pattern baldness. Keeps has more five star reviews than any of its competitors, and there are only two FDA approved medications that can prevent hair loss. And they are both in keeps baby heaps, offers simple, affordable and stress free way to keep your hair. How? With convenient virtual consultations with doctors and medications delivered straight to your door every three months so you don’t have to leave your home to do any of that stuff. 24-7. Seven Care and support keeps us a network of expert medical advisers, prescribers and care specialists to support you in making your hair goals a reality. And you can talk to them 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That is wild, and it’s affordable treatment started just over ten dollars a month and keeps offers generic versions of the two FDA approved medications to prevent hair loss. Treatment plans, as I said, are very affordable. Typically, half the cost of pharmacy prices keep says everything your hair needs delivered straight to your door with discreet packaging and proven results. Remember, prevention is key. Treatments can take four to six months to see results, so act now when it comes to your hair, save more. Spend less. If you’re ready to receive action and prevent hair loss, go to keep slash x ray to receive the first months of free treatments for free. That’s keeps dot com slash x ray to get your first month free. Keeps dot com slash x ray. This episode of X-ray Vision is brought to you by our friends at underdog fantasy. If you’re putting together your ultimate team of six multiverse variants. Who would you use? I would do Loki one, Loki two, Loki 57, Loki 175, Loki 616 and Loki eight thousand seven hundred thirty two. Underdog fantasy lets you draft your dream squad like multiverse all variants of Loki’s. But for sports every night you can draft an NBA team of six players playing that night to win cash prizes, playing against your friends for a small prize, or go for the big money in nightly tournaments, Underdog makes it easy to get started with their super clean interface. Download underdog fantasy from the App Store Use Code X Ray When you sign up, an underdog will match your initial deposit with up to $100 in bonus cash. I want to tell you about the easiest, most fun way to spice up your season its underdog fantasy in their brand new pick em game. Just pick over under on your favorite or least favorite player stats, and you can win up to 20 times your money in a single night. Underdog keeps it super simple with their easy to use website and mobile apps. Pick between two and five players, and you can take home some cold, hard cash use code X Ray and get your first deposit doubled by underdog. OK, let’s go to some mailbag questions, this is from Jamie, after watching the Doctor Strange trailer and thinking about WandaVision Loki, what if in no way home, I’m just confused about the origin of the MCU multiverse? Perfect first question for this one. I had assumed that it all began with Silvey, but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between that. And no way home do you think we’ll see any kind of connections drawn in Multiverse of Madness between all of the multiverse pieces we’ve seen so far? Are they connected somehow or did three people, Wanda Silly Strange, just happened to mess with it at the same time? Also wondering how the watcher in the TVA can exist? Great question.


Rosie Knight: Well, this is the biggest question right of the Marvel moment, because it seems like no way home would be the place where you would feel the ramifications of Loki, right? And yes, oh, well, he’s watching this, but they seem to close it. And my understanding is from reports that no way home was originally meant to come out of the Doctor Strange. So I think that that changed the storyline of what was meant to happen, where I’m assuming that whatever happened in Doctor Strange was meant to lead right to that multivessel kind of explosion in no way home. I think it does all start with Silvie and the TVA because we know that what if only exists and we know what if even that people thought it wasn’t going to play much of a big part? We can see now that they were seeding a lot of big stuff in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness


Jason Concepcion: that unleashed the true multiverse. It was like, think of it as like a bonsai tree previously.


Rosie Knight: Right? But it was in a loop before and now it’s right


Jason Concepcion: in the in the pre Silvie pre Loki fashion. It was like very constrained in this very curated kind of fashion. And now it’s just like wildly.


Rosie Knight: Yeah, and and what we see in everything we see and what f is coming from those trees, right? That kind of swirl of what I’m really interested to see it kind of what I want answered in along with Jamea in kind of Doctor Strange too, is so like, is he in trouble for what he did? In no way home is he in trouble because a different universe version of him messed around with the timeline to try and bring back Christine, and he’s having to pay for it. Like, I think, hopefully Multiverse of Madness is going to give us those answers of how this kind of all coalesces because also kind of like what we’re saying about Days of Future Past. I think part of it is they kind of throw stuff at the wall and see what’s there. Yeah. What did people most Loki and Sylvia, the ones that people really gravitated to? So it’s probably them.


Jason Concepcion: And listen to classic classic Doctor Strange DNA is he gets very, very powerful and he fucks something up and then they have to power him, and he has to learn his lesson. And then he does it again.


Rosie Knight: Like, that’s why we go.


Jason Concepcion: And I think that’s exactly where we’re going. It’s like, you know, like, listen, he’s not the Sorcerer Supreme anymore, which I think is a great choice.


Rosie Knight: Yes, Wong is always meant to be sold by


Jason Concepcion: Stephen, a wild guy. But I think as we saw, you know, with with Spider-Man, here he is messing with the multiverses. He shouldn’t


Rosie Knight: be doing it, getting to college right to


Jason Concepcion: help. It could get into college.


Rosie Knight: It’s not college admissions scandal, Steven.


Jason Concepcion: And again, what I think is brilliant about like the characterization here is it was ostensibly to get a kid into college, but really it was because like Stephen, Strange wanted to do it


Rosie Knight: as an egomaniac. He was like, I can do it.


Jason Concepcion: Oh, that sounds really cool. Alter reality? Yes.


Rosie Knight: Yeah. Yeah. I brainwash everyone on a show


Jason Concepcion: that sounds like a very, very responsible thing that I can do. And and this caused all of this. So what about the final question the watcher? Can the watcher and the TVA coexist?


Rosie Knight: Yes. Yeah, they can coexist. I think the idea of the Watcher. So I guess I think the Watcher is very intriguing to people because like in the show, he has this really clearly defined omnipotent, omnipotent kind of space. But in the comics, again, just a funny like narrative device that used to introduce these different comics and then has come on to have more of a person kind of persona. So I think he can exist because the idea is he actually exists outside of space and time. The Watcher is almost a god in that way. It doesn’t. The TVA can exist and be pruning watches, just watching and being like, Oh, they shouldn’t be pruning, but he doesn’t do anything. He’s not like, That’s a bad idea!


Jason Concepcion: Sarah asks. “I was listening to a recent interview with Anita Hill, where she mentioned that she was a fan of Stan Lee and always wanted him to make a superhero character based on her. And honestly, who deserves to be memorialized as a superhero more than Anita Hill? It made me wonder whether Marvel or comics generally ever did depict real historical people or events all the time.


Rosie Knight: Yeah , love to do that.


Jason Concepcion: They love to do that, like President Jimmy Carter is in so many like Marvel comics of the era


Rosie Knight: They did a lot of like Obama when Obama got in, they made like a bunch of Obama covers and stuff.


Jason Concepcion: There were some really, really in retrospect, cringe worthy like reactions to 911 in comics


Rosie Knight: That’s like a very famous Marvel did a very famous anthology about that. That is touch and go.


Jason Concepcion: Maybe, maybe, maybe let this sit. Maybe, maybe maybe a let it sit and marinate a while before we just like jump into this.Ugh .


Rosie Knight: But yeah, I mean, they were really into that. And there’s even like there’s even kind of precedent for comics throughout history where publishers have just done comics that are like biographical comic issues about famous people. So yes, that’s a good question. And it is true. And now that you know it’s true, you’ll probably notice it. When you’re going through a back issue, then you’ll be like, LOL, why is this person in here?


Jason Concepcion: Let’s see. One morning we’ll go to the audience. If you had infinity gantlet control over the MCU.


Rosie Knight: And it would be dangerous.


Jason Concepcion: One thing casting story effects, etc. What would that be for y’all if X-Men Dark Phenix took place in 1992? And we assume that since the original X-Men came out in 2000, it must have taken place roughly at the same timeframe. What do you think could have caused Xavier and Magneto to age so much Josie?


Rosie Knight: The big question


Jason Concepcion: OK, so if you had infinity gantlet control over the MCU and can change one


Rosie Knight: thing, OK, so would it be? I have like my real answer on like a very small like could happen would probably be like I think Emily Blunt was originally meant to place Black Widow, right? And I think that would have been very cool. But if I had real infinity gantlet thing, they mentioned the word effects. If I could click, I would make every effect in the MCU practical. That would be my thing. I’d be like,


Jason Concepcion: Oh, in-camera


Rosie Knight: things in in-camera. Build a set I want to see. I want to see no green screen, right? Don’t be surprised.


Jason Concepcion: Actual silly string come out of


Rosie Knight: like I’d like it. Honestly, I want to see Kevin Feige in an alternate universe. He’s like, I didn’t know he could do CG instead of saying I didn’t know we could shoot on location. So I’m like, Yeah, I want everything to be in camera. That’s that practical. That’s the way to go. That’s the MCU.


Jason Concepcion: I wish I don’t even know. Gosh, what would I do? I would probably if I had MCU, I would bring. I would find a way to get the X-Men in like earlier, and I would have more like Weapon X, which is the program that created Wolverine. I would have more clues about that. I would more I would tie it directly to the Super Bowl is


Rosie Knight: such a foundational part of introducing like heroes and mutants to the


Jason Concepcion: world. And I would have I would have like him a picture of Logan, like hanging in some flashback of the Super Soldier program, where it’s like, Oh yeah, the Canadian version of Captain America. It never really worked out. He went psychotic and we had to lock him in a cell somewhere after we’d bonded.


Rosie Knight: And Goldsby,


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, and so that’s what I would do because that is I can’t I just can’t wait for the X-Men to come to the Marvel Universe. OK, let’s go to does anybody have


Rosie Knight: you have a question? You can stand behind the microphone if you have to ask. Thank you. Thank you. So brave, question asked.


Audience Member: So I’m going to age myself a little bit. My dad was a fan of the 92 X-Men cartoon, and


Rosie Knight: there’s a great great parenting.


Audience Member: Yeah, I’m watching it for the first time. And especially with the X-Men Ninety two announcement, I’m trying to ask like every person on TikTok or Black in the comic space. What do you think the like continuity or implications of the 92 reboot or remake or whatever? What’s what’s the canon city? What’s that going to do to the MCU, especially with also the Doctor Strange rumor that he’s going to be in, like the chair


Rosie Knight: from the professor, professor in the chair? So my understanding of the show is that it’s going to directly continue from where ninety two and down here, right? So I think that I love that question because I would hope. Mm hmm. I think that canon wise, I don’t necessarily know that the MCU wants to get into like animation being canon. But I do think that the reason they’re doing this show right now is to reintroduce the act. They’re laying the ground to a new audience that maybe didn’t grow up with it. And two, yeah, exactly. You’re there. You’re the target. And and basically. To something that me and Jason have talked about a lot about why we think that show works, why the Spider-Man animated series works, why Batman the animated series works. They basically condense these really famous arcs into


Jason Concepcion: one episode of any two minute


Rosie Knight: episode of Sentinels. Suddenly, that’s 22 minutes, you know, is this really condensed form of storytelling where you can do a lot of exposition and introduction? So I think that what we see in X-Men 97, I think it’s going to be called. We should look to that as probably very telling about what’s going to be in the MCU X-Men movies.


Audience Member: Hi guys!


Jason Concepcion: Great to see you.


Audience Member: Hey, nice to be here. Nice to see you guys, too. I have just two quick questions the first one now that we’re getting further and further away from World War Two, which is anchored in time, but our culture is moving forward through time


Rosie Knight: A can of worms.


Jason Concepcion: Yea


Audience Member: Is it time when the X-Men come in to just rebuild that whole story? Take it away from that. Wolverine can obviously can be around forever, but you know, do should that all be reinterpreted the way they did in the ultimate universe? And then the second question I miss Cap and Tony in the MCU, and I like the idea of them being around for the long term. Do you guys like the idea of pulling a Rick and Morty like, go find out, you know, a new actor for Tony and for and for Cap from some other multiverse and bring them into the to the main one.


Rosie Knight: I honestly think we could do a whole episode about the Magneto question.


Jason Concepcion: Yes, the Magneto question is


Rosie Knight: Because Magneto is a Jewish hero anti-hero villain. A Holocaust survivor is so integral to his story


Jason Concepcion: and that came along. That was a retcon in and of itself which came along much, much later after his introduction as a very, very evil supervillain.


Rosie Knight: But as Matt points out, like this is we are living in the age of the sliding timeline.


Jason Concepcion: Right


Rosie Knight: Everyone in the comics now is, you know, let’s look to the even the Batman, you know, the new film he was in, he was like a kid in like 2001. He’s going to be Shrek with his mom and dad, you know, and then they died. Aw what a tragedy like, they just keep coming and they don’t stop coming. But like, I think it’s the this is something I think about a lot. It’s something I talk to Jason all about. A lot. I don’t know. How they do it, I think there are some very brilliant ways that you could reinterpret. I think that there’s an unbelievable spectrum of Jewish existence where you could have a Jewish character who’s also a Black character who was involved in the civil rights era stuff in the US. And that would be interesting, Magneto, but that whatever they do, I think there’s some modern war spaces that you could re-imagine in. But it is such a vital Jewish character, and it was created, you know, by two Jewish men and then was reckoned to be this huge Jewish icon. I think it’s I think it’s very it’s going to be the most complex thing they have to do.


Jason Concepcion: Yeah, I agree with that. And I also think like it comes down to the central question of are they are the mutants here now in hiding


Rosie Knight: and have they always been? Have they


Jason Concepcion: always been?


Rosie Knight: So let’s be real. We could just if you wanted to, it could just be 40. And guess what? He’s a Holocaust survivor, but his. I mean, the amazing at the age of 40, like you can write and if you want, you can figure out a way to always been there.


Jason Concepcion: And they they just give us the Eternals who secretly have been hiding like among the people of Earth for a long time. So they could do that with the with the X-Men. The school is so top secret that nobody knows that it’s been happening. Or do they use the multiverse all door and say we’re bringing them in from somewhere else? That’s kind of the central question that we don’t. Or is it a combination of those things where it’s the stuff we saw in Loki? Yeah, the stuff we saw in WandaVision, plus some sort of like melding of dimensions that gives us


Rosie Knight: Newton because for a long time when it came to like, what do you want to see from a Fantastic Four movie, right? A lot of our science would be like, Well, let’s do is Taika Waititi is fish out of water. It’s a 60s wild ride movie, and then they’re pulled into the modern age. Wouldn’t that be cool? So I guess using that same logic, if we’re talking about the multiverse, there is a version where you can pull a young, radicalized Holocaust survivor, Magneto, into a modern age where he still has that experience.


Jason Concepcion: But I think I would doubt, I don’t


Rosie Knight: think I don’t think there’s a way you can do it without question is, how do you what does that look like? And I think that’s going to be the hardest thing for them to do because it was, I mean, the reason to kind of answer go back to is a serious question. The reason that Magneto looks old in those first X-Men movies is because they needed him to be a Holocaust survivor. So that’s what aged him. It was just the narrative necessity. And as for you, I think about the Tony and Cap thing a lot because I think a lot of people want that. I am all for recasting. I think it’s the most exciting way to do it right. There is precedent in the comics of Teen Tony. It’s very hated. I don’t think Marvel is going to get back to that, but I do. I do think to me, that’s what I think is exciting. Artie J. Chris Evans. Brilliant. But if I see Tony Stark and I want to see, like 25 years, that’s what I want them to find a brilliant young actor who has that like arrogance and anger, and I want to see him against this pure minded, like idealistic cap like. So I think that I think if they do it, I think you’ve got a more diverse set pick some new acting think that’s


Jason Concepcion: what the figure is. It pretty. It seems pretty sure that Pfizer A. Reboot. Yes, we will just bring stuff in and figure out how to make it work within the timeline. And I think that


Rosie Knight: so far they haven’t gone to the other big Disney property you might have heard of. It’s called Star Wars. They they have a pension for doing a lot of de-aging and luckily we have the MCU that we don’t want to see that. And even when you had Chris Evans at the end of Endgame, he dated all people make up. Even then, it was it was practical. So I’m hoping that we’re going to stay in that realm of reality.


Jason Concepcion: Do we see old Chris Evans, old Captain America running around in our current


Rosie Knight: Joe Biden Captain America?


Jason Concepcion: He’s he’s that serum is still strong, like he could probably bench press needs to


Rosie Knight: come back and make up for all those atrocities he ignored while he was dancing with his misses like.


Audience Member: Yeah, so I’ve always wanted my brand. Sampson’s comic books adapted. I’m so curious. What are some things that have not been adapted for TV or movies that I would like to see what I was doing?


Rosie Knight: Oh, I have a God.


Jason Concepcion: We’re running out of stuff at this point.


Rosie Knight: But OK, so I have a white whale. But like many of us, I think it’s a dream. But also, I never want to see it adapted. So there is a comic book that I love. If you listen to podcast, I talk about a lot called Love and Rockets. Yeah, which is by the Hernandez brothers. And it is this slice. It’s a it’s a mix between a slice of life and a science fiction comic about the Teen X punks. Yeah, in like the 80s. And but the thing about the comics it’s amazing is over 40 years the comics have the characters have grown with the comics. There’s no sliding timeline. They get older and it’s this brilliant queer punk rock story. And I always wanted to know, like, it feels like the 90s like a reality bites. We’re kind of movie should have been the time for it to get made, so I don’t know how it exists now, but that’s the one where sometimes I’ll see a brilliant actress or or I’ll see like some kind of like brilliant queer fashion shoot and I’m like, Oh, love and rockets like it could exist, but do I really want it? I’d probably hate it. I’d probably be like crying every day, like watching it. Like, Why did they do this stuff?


Jason Concepcion: I that would be the one, because it’s kind of like the last giant indie comic that they


Rosie Knight: have really is that they


Jason Concepcion: haven’t adapted yet


Rosie Knight: because it’s really from the black and white boom era. We’ve had Ninja Turtles comics. You know, we’re having a soggy Yojimbo Netflix show like these comics that came out at the same time. A lot of them have been adapted and love and rockets is really that one where you’re just like. It’s it’s scary to take it on, but like the the early stuff, especially at home, I did like magic. The mechanics was this like very it’s what inspired Tank Girl. She’s like a badass like queer mechanic and she goes to like a world of dinosaurs. So I think if you’re going to do a movie, you could do the more sci fi. But I think HBO Max kind of prestige TV 10 episode, there’s a version of it, especially now where people are really interested in like expanding ideas of representation on TV and having authentic storytelling. I think there’s a space and you’re right, it’s really the last big indie comic


Jason Concepcion: I think mine would be. I mean, I think Saga, it will happen at some


Rosie Knight: point and what happens actually


Jason Concepcion: will happen at some point.


Rosie Knight: Just probably post paper girls, because that’s going to be for girls speaking.


Jason Concepcion: Yes, the Brian Kayvon extravaganza saga Fiona Staples art that is just like, so incredible and sumptuous. The best clothes my favorite clothes in a comic is is


Rosie Knight: every fashion is beautiful. I think that that I think that is actually so likely. I think I


Jason Concepcion: I don’t think that they made it so fantastical and imagined an imaginary that


Rosie Knight: they. So to me, that was I used to say that was alongside the unfilmable comics like Watchmen, you know, which is obviously never been filmed. Jazzi very unfilmable, but like because of that. But I think where we are now, you have a Lord of the Rings show being made by a billionaire company, and every episode costs $4 million and like to


Jason Concepcion: spend a quarter of a billion just to get


Rosie Knight: it. Yeah, and the billion dollar season, right? I think we’re living in a world where there’s too much. There’s just it’s unthinkable amounts of money. So in that sense, could Saga get made? Probably very beautifully. Yeah, I actually think it probably could now. The question is, who could helmet? Do they understand the vision and could it be weird enough? Also, it would have to be R-rated. That’s like a saucy good that that’s the way it should be good. But I think it would be. I think it would be hard in an age of superheroes for them to not want a PG 13 yet, because it’s so HBO Max Area X


Jason Concepcion: multiple seasons.


Rosie Knight: Also, with with the mindset of, yeah, I have a lot of moral and ethical issues with Watchmen ever being adapted because it was essentially stolen from the creators by DC with with dodgy contracting. But I will say, if you went into a saga with the mindset of the recent Watchmen TV show, where you’re constantly recontextualizing the source material to make it speak to now, I think that mindset with a budget for Saga could be absolutely groundbreaking. I agree. Yeah. Thank you, everyone who asked the question.


Jason Concepcion: We’ve come to the end of our time. Big thank you to everybody here. Thank you to on behalf of Rosie and myself. Everybody here at South by Southwest, please enjoy the rest of the festival. Check out x ray vision every Friday. Goodbye, everybody. Yeah. If you want to learn more about what we explore in each episode, check out our listeners guide to all things X-ray vision in the show. Notes are on our website. Next week, we’re back on Friday, March 25th and send your nerd out submissions to X-ray at instructions in the show notes. And don’t forget, five star ratings, five star ratings. Give us the five star ratings. X-ray vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Reuben shows executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Caroline Reston and Carlton Gillespie are consulting producers in our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulous. Big thanks to Brian Vasquez for our theme music. See you next time!