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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Tuesday, May 12th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that has learned it is very sick, via President Donald Trump on Monday. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] They’ve got serious Trump derangement syndrome, which actually is a disease. I’m hearing it is actually a disease, it’s an honor. 

Jane Coaston: Good news! Under Health and Human Services Secretary R.F.K. Junior, Trump Derangement Syndrome, like a bunch of other diseases, is safer than ever before. [music break] On today’s show, Dr. Mehmet Oz explains what it means to be under-babyed. And President Trump says a ceasefire with Iran is barely hanging on. Spoiler, both of these comments came during the same event. Welcome to America. But let’s start with Jeffrey Epstein. The devastating impact of the convicted sex offender’s many crimes has been felt in so many places, from the halls of Congress to the royal families of Britain and Norway. But it’s taken the work of student journalists to uncover the worrying details about Epstein’s hidden relationship with another important institution, Harvard University. Epstein didn’t go to Harvard. Actually, he didn’t graduate from college at all. But he worked tirelessly to ingratiate himself with academics at elite institutions, including Columbia University, MIT, and yes, Harvard. Back in 2020, Harvard released a report aiming to detail its relationship with Epstein. Including the millions of dollars he donated to the university over a decade. But as journalist Pablo Torre and the Harvard Crimson discovered, Harvard was actually keeping a lot of secrets about its relationship with the convicted sex offender. And what they kept out of public view says a lot about how Epstein was able to accumulate influence and power at one of the world’s best universities. Pablo Torre is the host of the podcast Pablo Torre Finds Out. We spoke about his investigation and what he wants Harvard to do now. Pablo Torre, welcome to What a Day! 

Pablo Torre: Jane, it’s been too long. Thank you for having me on your esteemed program. 

Jane Coaston: Thank you, so let’s go back in time. In May of 2020, Harvard published a report, a report concerning Jeffrey E. Epstein’s connections to Harvard University, which is a report I’m sure they did not ever want to have to do. The results of the report were supposedly a, quote, “full review” of Epstein’s connections to Harvard. But recently, you, in partnership with the Harvard Crimson, shout out student journalists. 

Pablo Torre: Yes. 

Jane Coaston: Uncovered university documents that showed the report did not include everything. What did you learn from these new files? 

Pablo Torre: So this began as a sports story, Jane. You know, I love how sports is a portal into lots of things that people in sports are like terrified to touch. Um. We found the Jeffrey E. Epstein Fund for Women’s Athletics, which on letterhead really does have the impact–

Jane Coaston: None of those words are–

Pablo Torre: –that I hoped. 

Jane Coaston: –in the Bible. None of them. Mm mm. 

Pablo Torre: Certainly not. And it’s also not a thing that Harvard disclosed or ever wanted to disclose, but it existed. And, it wasn’t just that. It was that in that self-report, that 2020 report, which was done by Harvard’s lawyers, there was lots of other information that was basically attesting to the fact that really two presidents of Harvard, Larry Summers, former U.S. Treasury secretary under Bill Clinton and also the president of Harvard when I was there. Uh, was of course intertwined with Jeffrey Epstein in ways that Harvard could see in their fundraising database, the files of which we obtained long before he had to resign more recently because of the Epstein files. They sort of knew how intertwined Summers and Epstein were from a pure, just like donor and university president relationship perspective. And in fact, the Jeffrey Epstein fund for Women’s athletics was a Larry Summers joint. The rugby players, the female rugby players had no idea Jeffrey E. Epstein was the guy backing this. They only knew this because Larry Summers had presented it to them after they were wondering, why does the men’s club rugby team have all of this money and this support from the university? And they were told to keep this fund from the university via Larry Summers quiet. But then on and on and on you get to the idea of, okay, wait a minute. Before that donation was made for the women’s athletics fund, Larry Summers flew on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane. That was in the documentation inside of the Harvard database that we obtained. Harvard knew that when they were investigating in 2020. 2019 and 2020, didn’t disclose it. And it proceeds from there. Then the other one, there is a guy named Henry Rosovsky. And Henry Rosovsky, from any sort of Epstein files perspective is a fascinating character, but you should know for these purposes, he was a former acting president of Harvard, a university professor, the first guy to be on the Harvard corporations board. A really esteemed guy. And he was one of the first points of contact that Epstein had with Harvard. That is also in the contact reports. So really, this is a story about fundraising inside of a place like Harvard and what they keep in terms of detail, which was exhaustive. And Rosovsky, by the way, also known as the guy who had the page after Donald Trump’s illustration in the Jeffrey Epstein birthday book. He had, it was an illustration that was boobs. That’s also in there. So the whole thing of we cut off contact after 2008, which was the party line that Harvard tried to walk. We also saw that they actually sent him invitations and updates every year till 2018, keeping him in the loop on what his money at Harvard was doing. And so they knew it, they didn’t disclose it. The question we have, of course, is why not? 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, and I mean, I have a lot of additional questions. Um. And I think one of them for you is Jeffrey Epstein did not go to Harvard. Jeffrey Epstein did not graduate from college at all. And yet he loved being photographed wearing a Harvard hoodie. Um. Some of the reporting from the student journalists at the Harvard Crimson, shows how people would talk about him as having this like brilliant mind and being so great. And like, you know, I’ve dug into his emails. I’m not seeing it. So how did Epstein ingratiate himself with Larry Summers and other professors and all of these people at an institution that is way older, way bigger and far more respectable than he ever was? 

Pablo Torre: I think one of the big picture questions, before I go micro is, when is it enough for Harvard University to have the biggest endowment in the history of the planet, right? They didn’t need Jeffrey Epstein’s approximately, you know single digit millions of dollars that was not gonna make or break their budget, right? And so the question you ask is a good one. And I think the question is answered by the fact that, yes, Epstein gave to Harvard more than he gave to any other academic institution. It’s also true though, that when you see the relationships he had with Rosovsky with Summers, with the professors at Harvard, Martin Novak who had to resign. And he’s also all over the Epstein files. He was like basically, I would say the target that Harvard internally felt most comfortable putting out there in that 2020 report. You see that Epstein was catering to an image of what it means to be elite. That really is sort of like a child’s idea of success. He was surrounding himself with these young female assistants who would accompany him on his many trips to Harvard. He had a key to the building, one of the buildings I should say, on campus in which, and this program was very on the nose in being, the acronym was PED, PED. [laughter] It was a program for evolutionary dynamics. 

Jane Coaston: Of course it was. 

Pablo Torre: How dare you laugh at that. This is a very innocent project. Um. That, right? He had a key to it. He decorated the office. He brought his, again, these women around. He was sitting in classes. This is all while I was also on campus somewhere. He was their friend, Larry Summers, Jane. Larry Summers honeymooned on Epstein Island. He gets married and he takes his wife, fellow Harvard professor, Elisa New. They go and do a stopover on Epstein Island for their honeymoon. And also separately, this isn’t even in the episode, but you can also find in the Epstein files, Elisa New directly soliciting funds from Jeffrey Epstein for her various projects. So it is money, but it’s also the ability to feel like you have a patron who’s just not going to get in the way of what you want to do. And the question of course, that did not get asked nearly enough is at what cost, right? At what due diligence did you allow this guy to be everywhere? Or at least wherever he wanted to be, seemingly. 

Jane Coaston: Something that really struck me was that this all came out of its accountability report from 2020, where they’re basically like, we are so sorry, this was terrible, let me just, let us just lay all of our cards on the table. And your reporting and the reporting of the Harvey Crimson shows that they did not do any of that. They did not lay their cards on the table, they gave up some sacrificial lambs and said, we’re very sorry, please give us more money, additional people. And we really haven’t seen any people or institutions in the U.S. face consequences for their personal or professional relationships with Epstein, including Harvard. In fact, when you brought them the results of your reporting, Harvard declined to comment multiple times. So where is the actual accountability? What would it take to hold Harvard accountable? 

Pablo Torre: That’s something that I wanted Harvard to answer. And the no comments I thought said a lot. There were just no good answers to you knew about this. The Harvard Medical School, by the way, generated in 2015, right? So long after it’s already established, this dude is a pedophile. This dude is in headlines. Harvard Medical school generated a new donor rating based on a Forbes article that examined him as a potential donor again, you know? And so, and he was estimated to have around $75 million as his net worth, that was what he was pegged at. And so they wanted the money, they were and are ever desperate to get more of it even as they shatter every record for, again, endowment largesse, the answer to like what kind of accountability should there be? I think it’s really worth putting this in a larger context of Jeffrey Epstein used Harvard to launder his image among respectable people, among politicians, media figures, the elites, in ways that don’t excuse those people necessarily for being fooled, I suppose, by what Epstein wanted them to believe. But Harvard was such an enormous part of it, and they were used willingly in exchange for money. And so for me it really is like a truth and reconciliation thing. I want everything. I want every thing at once. And my fear, Jane, is that what Harvard is gonna do, because they did the 2020 report and they tried to do it piecemeal and hoped it would all go away. And my view of their strategy here and not commenting is they will not volunteer anything resembling their version of everything. They may piecemeal release things, but in that strategy of being piecemeal, they are going to, of course, decide what to not disclose. And I think the answer must be, we want everything. Because this is not a thing of like, we’re going to hide it over here, be distracted over here and hope that this feels like enough. I mean, look, we say this in the episode, but I’m talking to all of these rugby players. And I’m talking to a source inside of the university who was working with the fundraising system, who saw from the inside, who pointed out this was very easy to see from the inside. This was not hidden. It was not like a secret folder inside a folder inside a folder. You could just search Epstein and all of it was there. Everything I published, all that was there for them to see. The thing they point to is the fact that look, the motto of the school is veritas. And I’m not somebody who is so naive as to think, well, truth must be, of course, always at the forefront of Harvard’s thinking, I am more cynical than that. But in terms of a betrayal of what that premise even is, this is about as serious a challenge to their own sincerity as an academic institution as anything, and it should be taken with the severity of you enabled him. And so how are you going to frankly disclose what it is that you knew and when that you knew it?

Jane Coaston: Pablo, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. 

Pablo Torre: Jane, I love talking to you about sports. So anytime. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Pablo Torre, host of the podcast, Pablo Torre Finds Out. We’ll link to it in the show notes. By the way, I want to shout out the student journalists at the Harvard Crimson who helped break that story. Journalism is a calling and I’m so glad so many people are answering. If you like what we’re doing here and want to support our work, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines.

[clip of unnamed news reporter] For the time being, the ceasefire remains in place?

[clip of President Donald Trump] You know, it’s unbelievably weak, I would say. I would call it the weakest right now. After reading that piece of garbage they sent us, I didn’t even finish reading it. I said, I’m not going to waste my time reading it, I would say it’s one of the weakest. Right now, it’s on life support. They understand these are all medical people. Dr. Oz, life support is not a good thing, you agree? 

[clip of Dr. Mehmet Oz] [?]

[clip of President Donald Trump] I would say the ceasefire is on massive life support where the doctor walks in and says, sir, your loved one has approximately a 1% chance of living. 

Jane Coaston: Is Trump my doctor? Because if so, I am even more worried. President Trump on Monday talked about the Iran ceasefire after rejecting Tehran’s latest proposal, which officials said included some nuclear concessions. Trump also proposed suspending the federal gas tax to help with higher fuel prices caused by the war. The stalled diplomacy follows recent exchanges of fire between the two countries, while Iran’s chokehold on the Strait of Hormuz and the U.S. blockade of Iranian ports remain in place. But the most interesting part of all of this? Trump’s comments came during a maternal healthcare event in the Oval Office. Yes, you heard that right. During the event, Trump promoted a website called moms.gov. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] I encourage every mom to visit this new page where they will find helpful information about addressing clinical care, pregnancy resources, nutrition tips, Trump Rx, and Trump accounts. 

Jane Coaston: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Dr. Mehmet Oz, Administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, were on hand for the event. And as usual, things took a weird turn. Here are some clips. No, I will not be explaining. 

[clip of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.] The fertility crisis for women began in 2007. For men in 1970, men had twice the sperm count as our teenagers do today. This is an existential crisis for our country. 

[clip of Dr. Mehmet Oz] Let me speak a little bit about the reality that one in three Americans are under-babyed. What does under-babied mean? That means that you either don’t have any children or you have less children than you would normally want to have. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] Uh. If we go to Congress to get something approved, which we get, but you can say that we’re going to reduce drug prices by 80 percent, and we won’t get one Democrat vote. I don’t know how they get away with it. That’s why we call them the Dumbocrats. We have a new name, the Dumbocrats, because they’re dumb. They’re dumb people, and and uh and they just they just can’t do it. 

Jane Coaston: I’m sorry. I blacked out for about two minutes there and just came back to see that Trump has lost his name calling juice. Sad. In other reproductive rights news, the U.S. Supreme Court is leaving access to a widely used abortion pill untouched until at least Thursday. During that time, the justices will consider whether to allow restrictions on the drug, Mifepristone, to take effect. Justice Samuel Alito’s order on Monday allows patients to continue obtaining the pill at pharmacies or through the mail without an in-person visit to a doctor. It prevents restrictions on Mifepristone imposed by a federal appeals court from taking effect for the time being. The man accused of storming the White House Correspondents Association dinner appeared in federal court on Monday. An attorney entered a not guilty plea on his behalf. The man was charged with attempting to kill President Trump and firing a shotgun at a Secret Service officer. And because this is 2026 and we love polls, the Washington Post reported that according to new polling from NewsGuard, one in four Americans, that’s one in three Democrats and one in eight Republicans, believe that the assassination attempt at the White House Correspondent’s dinner was staged. Which is not great. And with all that Trump has going on these days, a war in Iran, soaring gas prices, tanking popularity, he remains super focused on his favorite thing in the world, Trumpifying beautiful historic American sites. Take, for example, the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool. Apparently the pool isn’t esthetically pleasing enough to Trump, so he hired a Virginia-based firm to paint the bottom quote, “American flag blue,” in time for the country’s 250th anniversary on July 4th. Last week, a reporter asked Trump why he’s focusing on renovations right now while the war continues. And Trump did not like that question very much at all. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] They had to take 11 or 12 truckloads of garbage out of that lake, out of that water. And it sat there for years like that. And that’s not what our country is about. Our country is about beauty, cleanliness, safety, great people, not a filthy capital. It’s such a stupid question, if you ask. We’re fixing up the reflecting pond to the Lincoln Memorial, the Washington Monument. And you say, why are you fixing it up? Because you can understand dirt maybe better than I can, but I don’t allow it. 

Jane Coaston: Esthetics aside, the pool project is becoming fishy. Trump picked his pool guy and said the renovation would cost $1.8 million. Now, federal records show that the cost ballooned to $13.1 million. A non-profit is suing to stop the Trump administration’s renovation of the reflecting pool, arguing that Trump’s team didn’t follow the proper review process before painting the basin blue. And that’s the news. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, remember those gold Trump phones we were supposed to be getting? And tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how back in June of 2025, Trump’s eldest sons launched Trump Mobile and announced that you’d be able to buy an American-made Trump-themed cell phone by August of 2025, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston. And as of May 1st, 2026, there has been no Trump-themed cell phone released, no scheduled release date, and the updated Terms and Service Agreement says that the $100 deposit for a phone is actually, quote, “a conditional opportunity if Trump Mobile later elects in its sole discretion to offer the device for sale.” TLDR, you’re not getting that phone. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Caitlin Plummer, Emily Fohr, Erica Morrison, and Adriene Hilt. Our team includes Hayley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Case, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.