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Jane Coaston: It’s Wednesday, February 11th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that stands with the left-leaning magazine The Nation, which has formally nominated the city of Minneapolis and its people for the 2026 Nobel Peace Prize. As the editors of the magazine write, quote, “the people of Minneapolis, and their elected leaders have demonstrated an extraordinary and sustained commitment to human dignity and to the protection of vulnerable communities.” Indeed. [music break] On today’s show, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick admits to lunching with his kids on Epstein Island, but says he doesn’t recall why. And Department of Homeland Security officials testify before Congress about the agency’s unprecedented wave of immigration enforcement. Will they take responsibility for their officers’ violence against American citizens? Of course not. But let’s start with the environment. President Donald Trump isn’t a fan of the environment, I mean. Or anything that would potentially help us not destroy it. Case in point, Trump is doing everything he can to stymie wind energy because he hates windmills. Like, really hates wind mills. Here he is at the National Prayer Breakfast last week, ranting about them. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] We haven’t improved anything in wind, right Doug? Nothing, because it’s you know just it’s a quick way to losing money, losing beauty, losing your fields, killing your birds. And other than that, it doesn’t work. 

Jane Coaston: He really covered a lot of ground at the National Prayer Breakfast. Do we even need the State of the Union? What else could there be to say? But the Trump administration is not just against windmills. Over the past year, it’s been eliminating policies aimed at stopping or even just slowing down climate change, and now it may go even further. This week, the Environmental Protection Agency plans to repeal the endangerment finding that has been the basis of rules limiting greenhouse gas emissions since 2009. According to the Wall Street Journal, that repeal will largely eliminate compliance programs and reporting obligations for industries that formerly had to abide by greenhouse gas emission standards. So, to talk more about this endangerment finding and where the fight against climate change goes from here, I spoke to Leah Stokes. She’s an associate professor at UC Santa Barbara, where she works on climate and clean energy policy. She’s also co-host of the climate podcast, A Matter of Degrees. Leah, welcome to What a Day! 

Leah Stokes: Oh, thanks so much for having me on. 

This thing that Trump is taking on, it’s called an endangerment finding. The EPA issued it back in 2009 during the Obama administration. What does it say and what role does it play in US climate policy right now? 

Leah Stokes: Yeah. So it’s a bit of a complicated story. Way back in the early ’60s, the United States passed the Clean Air Act, and then it was, you know, expanded over time. And eventually, Massachusetts decided to sue the EPA and say, hey, greenhouse gasses are also an air pollutant, and you should regulate them under the Clean Air Act as a pollutant. The Supreme Court agreed with Massachusetts, and so when Obama was president in his first term, he issued an endangerment finding. It basically says, yes, greenhouse gasses are an air pollutant that endangers Americans’ lives. And they’ve used that as the basis of doing a bunch of different regulations over time. Of course, every time Trump becomes president, which is hopefully the last time now, uh he repeals all of those policies. And so what he’s doing now is getting rid of the underlying ability to set those regulations in the first place. 

Jane Coaston: The endangerment finding was based on a study? What did that science say? 

Leah Stokes: Well, the science said what you would expect it to say, that pollution, greenhouse gas pollution, is bad. It causes climate change, which does all sorts of terrible things like fires and droughts. It’s terrible for humanity. It’s certainly terrible for everyday Americans. 

Jane Coaston: The Trump administration has been dismantling a ton of the country’s environmental protections for reasons. And you mentioned this, his taking on of the endangerment finding is a little bit different because it’s not a policy, it’s the legal grounds used to make the policy. So what does it mean in practice if this is repealed as expected? 

Leah Stokes: Yeah, so it’s basically taking on the science. And you’ve seen that Trump has appointed these bunk scientists to question all sorts of climate science. And it’s been sort of amazing to watch the outside scientists line by line critique all their BS that they try to put out. So this is just another way of saying, climate change isn’t real. It doesn’t endanger Americans. And I think most Americans have seen the fires in LA. They’ve seen heat waves killing people. They’ve seen flooding and drought and they know that the climate crisis is happening. So whether or not he believes in the science or has a bunch of climate deniers in key offices, climate change is happening now and I think most Americans can see it. 

Jane Coaston: How do these plans to repeal the endangerment finding fit into the Trump administration’s overall push to basically repeal all of climate policy? 

Leah Stokes: Yeah, I don’t want to get people bummed out because I’m not that bummed-out, but Trump is terrible for the planet. He’s terrible for the American people. This is just one in a large series of steps that they’ve taken over the last year to roll back climate policy. So of course, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act got rid of a bunch of incentives for heat pumps and solar and electric vehicles. Trump is having an all-out war on any solar or wind project across the country, trying to block it in a thousand different ways. You know, he’s been rolling back car standards. So this is just yet another move in the direction of big polluters because they profit on every year that we delay action. The more time that we have to keep burning fossil fuels, the more fossil fuel executives make money. And you can see this really clearly in Michigan where he is keeping open a coal plant that nobody needs to remain open. It’s of course poisoning the community and it costs $600,000 a day to keep open. He doesn’t need to keep this open. So who is profiting off of that? Who benefits? It’s certainly not the rate payers watching their electricity bills go up, and it’s not everyday people breathing in dirty air. So this is really the Trump administration’s MO. In my opinion, it’s a very corrupt administration that’s a sort of pay to play, and the fossil fuel industry is sort of the number one player when it comes to quid pro quo with the Trump admin. 

Jane Coaston: To that point, we know this move is not great for humans, climate policy, the world. But what would repealing this endangerment finding mean for US businesses? Because obviously fossil fuel companies would be thrilled about this, but something I’ve noticed is how there’s been some reticence actually from a lot of corporations to say start drilling in the Arctic or using a lot of the open doors the Trump administration is trying to give because they also wanna look good to us. And people, in general, are not a huge fan of pollution.

Leah Stokes: Yeah, look, I think the fossil fuel industry’s days are numbered. So they’re not drilling just because Trump has been giving them a green light, because the economics aren’t necessarily there. The fossil fuel industry is not having a great time. Oil prices are not that high. It’s not really economic. And as we move more towards electric vehicles and heat pumps and renewable energy like solar and wind, we don’t need as much of these fossil fuels. And so they are really just trying to hang on for dear life here. And I think what the endangerment finding repeal does is it sends a signal across all of society that like, hey, you don’t need to worry about this very much. You don’t to start moving in the right direction. And that’s what really concerns me. It’s that when we have a signal from our federal government, like this is the direction we’re going in, then a lot of people can you know follow along with that. And unfortunately with Trump, he has no directionality. He’s just like up and down and sideways and all over the place. And so we just don’t have that kind of clear message to say it’s time to move away from fossil fuels. 

Jane Coaston: Here’s a question for you. Is there any climate policy the Trump administration has not touched? 

Leah Stokes: Yeah, so there are still solar and battery incentives. They’re more on the corporate side than for everyday Americans. And so, especially with big growth in data centers and AI, we are gonna have to keep building solar and batteries. I think that’s some good news. They also didn’t repeal the everyday rebates to help people get a heat pump in their home. So there’s still all these programs in the States to help People do that. So I think there’s still some things happening. It’s easy to kind of say everything is terrible. And certainly, you know, this is not a good administration for the planet or for everyday people’s pocketbooks, but there are still signs of progress happening on climate policy. 

Jane Coaston: To what you were just saying. We’ve got this moment in which clearly Trump hates wind because he has a thing about windmills. You’ve got fossil fuel executives who are lining their pockets, but you also have an American populace that is very interested still in solar, very interested in electric vehicles. You even kind of have that weird MAHA crossover where they’re very interested in environmentally friendly practices while also supporting this administration. Look, I don’t get that. But where do you expect the Trump administration to go from here on these issues? 

Leah Stokes: Yeah I have a neighbor who’s really into the birds and is a big Trumper and I’m like you know he’s not good for the birds. Um. I don’t know if she missed that memo. Look I think that everyday people can continue to make action here. I’m in a house right now that’s running on clean solar energy. I’ve got heat pumps, electric vehicles, electric bikes. The future is here now and we’re seeing so many countries around the world continue to make progress. If you’re feeling sad go look at the price of solar panels in Pakistan. Because they are cheaper than wood. Go look at the deployment rate of electric mopeds in Nepal. The world is really moving in this direction. And you’ve seen, for example, Canada, with all these horrible tariffs and economic warfare that Trump is doing, they decided to partner with South Korea to start making electric vehicles in Canada. So this is the movement, and there’s still so many Americans, you know hundreds of millions of Americans who get it, who are buying electric cars, who are putting solar on their roof, and we can still keep making progress. 

Jane Coaston: Leah, thank you so much for joining me. 

Leah Stokes: Oh, thank you so much for having me on. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Leah Stokes, associate professor at UC Santa Barbara and co-host of the climate podcast, A Matter of Degrees. We’ll link to her podcast in the show notes. It’s nice to remember that we all play an important role in saving the country and oh, I don’t know, the world from bad climate policies. And if you like the show, you can play an importance role for us too. Please subscribe. Leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and most importantly, share with your friends. It helps us find passionate, thoughtful listeners like you. We’ll be back after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Representative Timothy Kennedy] Will you commit, yes or no, to immediately unmasking every agent conducting immigration enforcement and requiring them to wear standard uniforms with identifiable badges? 

[clip of Todd Lyons] No. 

[clip of Representative Timothy Kennedy] Now that’s a sad response. Your answer is completely unacceptable. People who are proud of what they do aren’t hiding their identity. 

Jane Coaston: New York Democratic Representative Timothy Kennedy asked Acting Director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement Todd Lyons a fairly basic question during a House Homeland Security hearing on Tuesday and got, well, you heard his response. The oversight hearing was the first held since the shooting deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Good by federal immigration officers in Minnesota last month. And while Democrats had a lot of questions for Lyons and other top brass from DHS, they didn’t get very many answers. Instead, Lyons emphasized during his opening remarks that the real problem was the rhetoric of protesters and elected officials who oppose ICE’s violent and aggressive tactics. He said, quote, “Let me send a message to anyone who thinks they can intimidate us. You will fail,” adding, “We are only getting started.” Ominous. The hearing comes as Democrats and Republicans are at loggerheads on funding for the Department of Homeland Security. Democrats continue to demand reforms to federal immigration enforcement. If Congress doesn’t reach a deal this week, funding for the department, which also includes FEMA and the Coast Guard, will lapse on Saturday. The Trump administration has stopped flying a rainbow flag at the Stonewall National Monument in New York City. The monument is across the street from the Stonewell Inn, the gay bar where patrons rebellion against a police raid helped catalyze the modern LGBTQ plus rights movement. The flag was quietly removed in recent days from a flag pole at the site, which is run by the National Park Service. That last bit is a key detail in the flag’s disappearance. Why? Because the agency issued a memo last month that largely restricts the agency to flying the flags of the United States, the Department of the Interior, and the POW-MIA flag. The Park Service says it’s just complying with recent guidance, but LGBTQ plus activists aren’t having it. They see the change as a symbolic swipe at the country’s first national monument to their history. Because it is. 

[clip of unspecified subcommittee member] Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein’s private island? 

[clip of Howard Lutnick] I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me as were my four children and nannies. I had another couple with, they were there as well with their children and we had lunch on the island. That is true, for an hour and we left with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife all together. 

Jane Coaston: As opposed to what? Leaving them there? Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick testified before a Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Tuesday. And guess what? Lutnick acknowledged that he had met with Jeffrey Epstein after 2008, when the late financier had been convicted for soliciting prostitution from a child. That’s despite Lutnicks’ previous claim that he cut ties with Epstein after 2005. During the hearing, Lutnick tried to downplay his relationship with Epstein. At one point he said he had quote, “Nothing to hide,” despite, you know, the hiding. The secretary described his contact with Epstein as a handful of emails and a pair of meetings that were years apart, including that boat lunch, with the nannies. Democrats and some Republicans are directing more and more scrutiny at Lutnick, but the White House has his back. Here is White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt at a briefing Tuesday. 

[clip of unnamed news reporter] So does the White House stand behind Secretary Lutnick right now, or given what he has said today, has there been any shift in how the White House is viewing Secretary Lutnick’s performance? 

[clip of Karoline Leavitt] No, Secretary Luttnick remains a very important member of President Trump’s team. And the president fully supports the secretary. 

Jane Coaston: One thing is clear, guys who yacht together, stand together. An affidavit unsealed on Tuesday provides the first public justification for an FBI search at election offices in Fulton County, Georgia last month. The FBI seized boxes of voter ballots collected from the 2020 presidential election. You know, the one President Trump famously lost. The controversial search is part of a criminal investigation that basically circles around years-old claims of fraud and irregularities that didn’t convince state authorities or courts to side with Trump. Here’s the kicker. The affidavit reveals the criminal investigation originated from a referral by Kurt Olsen. That’s the very same Kurt Olsen who served as Trump’s 2020 campaign lawyer, and the very same Olsen who lost a Supreme Court case that challenged the election outcome. Huh, that didn’t stop Trump from making Olsen a temporary administration official, overseeing the attempt to investigate Trump’s loss. Can’t blame Trump for trying. I mean, Olsen’s got plenty of experience, just not a lot of it on the winning side. At least, so far. And that’s the news. 

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate the wonders of ski jumping, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how we should honor the athletes who stare down the Italian ski jumps and say, sure, I’ll leap off that, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and German Olympic ski jumper Philipp Raimund won gold on Monday, despite being afraid of heights. I am also afraid of heights and I will not be competing in ski jumping. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Fohr. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters and Matt Berg. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison. And our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]