In This Episode
Parenting is hard and even harder when two parents are not seeing eye to eye. Are you struggling with protecting your peace while you co parent with your ex? The ladies of Imani State of Mind are helping you find ways to co-parent without losing your mind.
Tell us what’s on your mind and email us at AskDrImani@crooked.com with all your questions and comments or head to our website go.crooked.com/isom
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Imani Walker: This show is for general information and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to provide specific health care or medical advice and should not be construed as providing health care or medical advice. Please consult your physician with any questions related to your own health. [music break] Hey, everybody. Welcome to Imani State Of Mind. Hey, everybody, let’s all get down, because guess what? Me and Meg are in the same town. We both in L.A. right now. Yay! Woo! Woo!
MegScoop Thomas: Yes, girl, it is so I miss this sunshine. Okay, I miss this beautiful place.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, I’m sure. I mean, I don’t know if you, you know, are loving the sweater weather that has embarked upon–
MegScoop Thomas: Oooh yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: –L.A., I’m not mad. I’m I’m ready for boot. I definitely will admit that. I’m ready for it. I’m ready for a boot. And I know that in L.A. it starts to get a little cooler once um Halloween um creeps up on us. And Halloween is next week. So I’m really excited. Um. I mean, I’m excited for Halloween.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s, I mean, are you–
MegScoop Thomas: Are you?
Dr. Imani Walker: I mean.
MegScoop Thomas: Are you are you one of those people?
Dr. Imani Walker: No, I’m not. I’m lying. I mean I don’t care. [laughter] I don’t care. Um, I.
MegScoop Thomas: Well, I grew up. I wasn’t allowed I wasn’t allowed to celebrate Halloween growing up like I had to go to Hallelujah night at church.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mmm?
MegScoop Thomas: So, like, celebrate. Girl. It’s like, it’s like the ch– or the harvest festival they called it at church–
Dr. Imani Walker: Harvest Festival. Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Basically, it’s like Halloween for the little church kids. Like you get to go to church, you can’t dress as anything scary, you can’t be no witch or demon, you have to be like Mary or Joseph or something happy.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: And then and then you play games. You get a lot of candy, which is actually fun. It was fun.
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay.
MegScoop Thomas: But now I think about it. I was like, I didn’t really have like the whole Halloween, you know.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I didn’t understand the fun of Halloween until I got to college and everybody was like, we dressing up.
Dr. Imani Walker: But yeah, I mean, but that’s, that’s like that’s Black folks in general. I mean, I–
MegScoop Thomas: Right, right.
Dr. Imani Walker: I had one costume, I had a witch hat and I had a little witch cape that probably was a Dracula cape. And that’s what I wore [laughter] every Halloween. Every Halloween, that was me. I was just like, mmm put, like, like it was business because I used to, like I took the I took the bartering of the candy like, really, seriously, like you go get all your candy and then at the end of the night–
MegScoop Thomas: Uh huh.
Dr. Imani Walker: –You’d be like, okay, what you got, what you got? And I really [laughter] don’t like candy like that. I just like caramel. So anything caramel or like uh what you call it, tootsie rolls like I lo– and I like candy corn. I don’t care what nobody say, I like candy corn.
MegScoop Thomas: I do too! But I eat, I do eat–
Dr. Imani Walker: You do! You, yay.
MegScoop Thomas: –like um I do well, but I eat it like a psychopath though. [laughter] Um and I’m using that term loosely.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yes.
MegScoop Thomas: Understanding what that term means because I’m assuming that this is the way a psychopath would eat it, which is, you know, how like on the tip of the candy corn, it looks like a yellow kernel of corn.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, I love that.
MegScoop Thomas: So I bite it all down so that they all resemble little yellow pieces of kernel. And I, like, put them in a pile [laughter] and then I eat, I don’t know why I [?] [laughing]
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, that is craziness.
MegScoop Thomas: I like it.
Dr. Imani Walker: That is craziness.
MegScoop Thomas: I don’t know. I just like the way it looks like, oooh, I got corn. Haha it’s not. [laughter]
Dr. Imani Walker: Did you know, did you know that like, why it’s called candy corn. I was like, I wish I could show you this, like this, this link, but, or this photo. So basically what, so if you take candy corn and you look at it and it’s kind of shaped like a cylindrical like triangle, right? The little tip–
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Part, like the narrow tip is supposed to like be on the cob. So when you pull, so like let’s–.
MegScoop Thomas: What?
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. So like if you imagine like, you know, like a corncob and then you stick the little super pointy parts like towards the cob, it’ll actually like, like make like, you know, like a, like a like a piece of corn. And then when you pull the little, like the widest part out, like, that’s why the tips are yellow. Like, or the little flat piece is yellow.
MegScoop Thomas: What?
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Like, I wish I could show you. I’m sure people out there, like, I don’t really understand what you’re saying, but if you Google it, like, why does can– like why is it called candy corn? Like, I don’t understand the corn part, I saw this like a few years ago on Twitter or something and I was like, oh shit it do look like corn. Like, if you arrange it with all the pointy pieces towards–
MegScoop Thomas: Oh
Dr. Imani Walker: Towards the middle.
MegScoop Thomas: Oh.
Dr. Imani Walker: I was like oh.
MegScoop Thomas: I see. Oh, well, you know what? I like my um. I like my way of doing it better okay. [laugh] Biting it down to the little yellow piece.
Dr. Imani Walker: Your–
MegScoop Thomas: That. That’s why it looks like corn.
Dr. Imani Walker: You’re well true, your way of doing it is a little bit uh it’s a little odd. I will uh. I will–.
MegScoop Thomas: It is.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Give you that.
MegScoop Thomas: It is.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. Speaking of odd. Oh, God, I girl. I try. I try every week. I try. I’m like, we not gonna talk about him. We not. We not gonna talk about him. We not–
MegScoop Thomas: I know.
Dr. Imani Walker: –gonna talk about Kanye [groan] [pause] West. We not. We not. We not going to talk about him. But they’re just–
MegScoop Thomas: I just–
Dr. Imani Walker: He manic and he when it’s, when it I mean, this is such evidence of his mania when it comes to mania, it’s it’s can’t stop won’t stop. It’s every hour is something new, everything new. Everything new.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. I’m sure you’re aware. First of all first of all, let me let me start from the very beginning, or at least what I became aware of. So Saturday, Saturday, Kanye West decided that he was going to, I guess, tell somebody, one of his people, to bring white lives matter shirts to Skid Row in Los Angeles. Now, I don’t know–
MegScoop Thomas: Wow.
Dr. Imani Walker: If I mean, you can kind of imagine Skid Row. You don’t you don’t need to have been on Skid Row or have gone to Skid Row. I used to work on Skid Row, so I’m pretty familiar with Skid Row.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: And um I mean, it’s I’ve never seen anything like that in an industrialized nation before in my entire life. Like I’ve seen that when I’ve gone to other countries, like third world countries, I’ve never–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Seen the amount of just squalor that exists. And it’s literally two blocks away from like Little Tokyo, which is like this bustling area of L.A. and people go and eat and there’s all these little shops. It’s really cute. And then you walk two blocks over and you like, oh no, please help me. Um. But Kanye West decided he was going to send his people down to Skid Row and give out these white lives matter shirts. And people were not pleased. They I saw an interview um that was done out here um from the–
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: –CBS affiliate out here in L.A. and this one woman said, fuck, Kanye West. Um. This is not a uh good idea. She said–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –You know, this is very divisive uh language. And she was like, this is stupid. Well, let me see. What does this say? This says some residents said the T-shirts are already causing trouble. Quote, “Ever since my girl got the shirt, she’s been getting threats, telling her not to wear the shirt or she’s gonna beat, get or she’s gonna get beat up, stuff like that” end quote. So yeah, I don’t.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: I don’t–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –I don’t purport to understand. Now, Sunday, one day later, what happens? One day later, the KKK, I guess a KKK group out here in L.A. decided they were going to unfurl a banner on the 405, saying Kanye was right. And–
MegScoop Thomas: What?
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, girl. Like.
MegScoop Thomas: I did not hear about this.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, so that was Sunday, which prompted the D.A. of L.A. to tweet basically like, you know, we do not condone this. L.A. is, you know, multi, multi, ethnic. And, you know, we stand with the Jews and, you know, all this other stuff. Um. And I was like, yeah, that’s great. I even got a email from my the dean at my son’s school um basically saying, like, we–
MegScoop Thomas: Wow.
Dr. Imani Walker: –we condone anti-Semitism. Okay, fine. And then up until let me see, what’s today? The 25th? Up until today, Kanye West uh has been officially dropped from all of his sponsors. So first it was–
MegScoop Thomas: Yup.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Balenciaga. And the last I heard, it might have been Adidas. The Gap stopped um. The Gap stopped uh having his things in stores or online. Um, I’m sure there’s some other some other sponsors I’m not thinking of right now but–
MegScoop Thomas: Oh his music label, also Def Jam dropped him from his music or dropped Good Music, which is his music label from their their roster basically.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. I mean, yes. And great. This is great. But. [sigh] I mean, we were talking a little bit before the show. I mean, I have some thoughts about it. I know you have some thoughts about it. It’s it’s I mean. Yes. Yes. Yes. Definitely. Like what he did was bad. But I also, as a Black person, feel some kind of a way. I don’t know.
MegScoop Thomas: I mean. I think this just goes to show like this is the thing that we’ve all learned as young Black children, which is we don’t get we don’t get held to the same standard as white people. And I think when you become rich, you forget that because you think the only color people see is green.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: And while for the most part that’s true, for the most part, they’re still this is just showing you that it doesn’t matter what color you are. I mean, it doesn’t matter that you’re Black. He’s a billionaire. Do you think these people care? No.
Dr. Imani Walker: No.
MegScoop Thomas: They’re treating him like a Black man. The things that he’s saying, some of the things he’s saying is true, that people just don’t want to hear. Some of the other things, I can’t get down with.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: But either way, he’s a Black man saying these things. Do you think they are going to help you? No.
Dr. Imani Walker: No.
MegScoop Thomas: Especially when you talk about Jews, because think about it, Mel Gibson is a known anti-Semite. And guess what?
Dr. Imani Walker: Known!
MegScoop Thomas: He, they nobody cancel– Nobody cancelled him like that.
Dr. Imani Walker: Nobody.
MegScoop Thomas: Maybe for a minute, maybe for like a couple of days a week, whatever. But for the most part, Mel Gibson has not been cancelled for talking about Jewish people. Why? Because people are forgiving of him, A.) Because apparently he did it under. Under while he was drunk, while he was under the influence. So people don’t have as much grace for mental health as they do with substance abuse. Right?
Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly, yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: That’s number one. And number two, he’s white.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: He’s white.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: So that to them means like, okay, how, you can’t really hate Jews that much because you’re white. But apparently it’s worse for for Kanye?
Dr. Imani Walker: Right. You can’t like first of all, I mean, the proof. The proof is there. You’re manic. You’re–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Well, I was going to say you’re a billionaire. But now with Adidas dropping him, he’s no longer a billionaire. I was mentioning this–
MegScoop Thomas: True.
Dr. Imani Walker: –To somebody the other day. I mean, unfortunately, when it comes to these types of situations, when it comes to mental mental health, don’t get me wrong, most of the patients I see have no money. Like they they get supported by the state or. Yeah, they get supported by the state or they they get Social Security disability. Someone like Kanye, who’s still a millionaire, there really aren’t going to be any changes, I believe, on his part to apologize or even show any type of remorse until he’s broke. And, you know–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Given that impulsivity is a symptom of bipolar disorder, which he has. I mean, I’m not saying I don’t want I don’t want to see anybody crash and burn like that. But I think this is really going to be, you know, one of the ways that he may be able to have some sort of a reckoning, um because I don’t I mean, I don’t know how he’s going to come back, but I could be wrong because remember when he ran up on stage with a bottle of Hennessy and, you know, cuts all up in his hair, talking about–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: You know, um talking about uh what’s your name? Taylor Swift.
MegScoop Thomas: Taylor Swift.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl sorry.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: For all y’all Taylor Swift people. The only way I can remember her is that uh some um somebody says she shaped like a crab leg. Sorry. But.
MegScoop Thomas: Stop. Oh my gosh. [laughing]
Dr. Imani Walker: But. [laughing] But I was like, uh Tyler um she shaped like a crab leg. Um. Oh, Taylor Swift. Sorry y’all. Um. But in any case. That’s honestly like he came back from that. He came back from black. Uh. Not black. George Bush don’t care about Black people. He came back from a lot of other things. So I think that it’s possible. You know, I don’t I can’t really call it. I but but but I do completely understand your point. Like, first of all, Black people have been, you know, telling Kanye, like, you need to calm down. The problem is that media really never took him to task about it until now.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: But, you know, Ka– I mean, I’m not saying that Kanye– What Kanye said was wrong, but Kanye has also been–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Talking about and it’s not just Kanye, Kanye’s been talking about and other people have said, you know, un– incorrectly, that the Jews run media. But now we kind of see it come full circle, like he said things about he said things about Black people for years that were completely inappropriate–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –And wrong. And he said something about Jewish people and everything got shut down. It’s just it is it’s it’s it’s kind of like it’s it’s unfortunate but fortunate. It’s kind of like, you know, Al Capone going to prison over tax evasion. Like we know what he–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Was doing. Like he was a mobster, like he was selling drugs, but like–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, we got him but like. All right. Like what? Like, what’s what’s the real impetus behind it? And so, you know, as a Black person, as Black people, me and you are definitely like I mean, all right. It’s, I guess it’s a win like we’ll take it. But it’s it’s um it’s it’s a wind that’s kind of steeped in like back handedness, I guess, is what I see a lot–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Of Black people, um you know express so. I don’t know. But but here’s the thing, Kanye. He’s on one. He gone be on one for a while. I hope this is the last time–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –That, you know, he really says something. I just, out there and then please Kanye for the sake of this podcast, please stop doing things. I’m so tired of talking about you.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. But–
MegScoop Thomas: For the sake of your kids, I mean, cause think about it. His kids got to see all this one day.
Dr. Imani Walker: All of it.
MegScoop Thomas: You know what I mean. [laughing]
Dr. Imani Walker: All of it. And I mean it is genetic–
MegScoop Thomas: So for them just stop bro. Just stop.
Dr. Imani Walker: It is genetic. And I really hope–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –That his kids, you know, don’t end up with mental illness. And if they do that, it’s not as severe as his. So I don’t know. But but here. Okay, so so current events, current events. Did you okay, wait, did you hear did you hear about um because this this kind of touches on our topic we’re going to be speaking of today. Did you hear about Kenan Thompson from SNL? His ex-wife is dating–
MegScoop Thomas: No. Tell me girl.
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So his ex-wife–
MegScoop Thomas: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Her name is Christina Evangeline. She cute. So his ex-wife, I didn’t even know–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –They was divorced. She’s dating Chris Redd, who used to be on SNL. The other Black dude.
MegScoop Thomas: You can’t see you can’t smash the homies.
Dr. Imani Walker: I’m like damn girl like of all the people in the world girl, of all the people. All the people.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: And I mean–
MegScoop Thomas: And then on top of that, like, you it ain’t even that many Black people on there.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: So for you to like–
Dr. Imani Walker: Like, what are you doing?
MegScoop Thomas: Like. Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: What are you doing? But I I say that because they have a couple kids. I don’t know exactly how this is all going to pan out as far as, you know, whether Evangeline and Chris Redd are going to end up, you know, like together, together like that. But I’m only bringing this up because today on Imani State of Mind, we’re going to be talking about and taking a deep dive uh into protecting your peace while you co-parent with an ex. Oh, my God. I know a lot about this. I’m intimately familiar with this. Um. So, [laughing] we’re going to we’re going to I mean, I don’t know if y’all can see my face. You can’t, but I’m just like, ugh, [laughter] but we’re we’re going to we’re going to talk about it today. So before we get started.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: I just want to let all you guys out there listening know that if you are loving the show, please let us know by rating the show on your favorite podcast app. Okay, so I saw a couple new reviews out there, I’m a shout y’all out at the end of the show. Um. So, so obviously we have so much to talk about, so we better get this show started. [music break] Okay. So it’s time for Ask Dr.Imani anything, we want to know what’s on your mind? What you struggling with? We love giving our professional and not so professional advice.
MegScoop Thomas: And that is right. And it’s time for Ask Dr. Imani anything. Our first letter today comes from Penn, and here is what she had to say. Dear Dr. Imani and Meg, I have a coworker who thinks I am her therapist and psychiatrist. Initially, you wrote this letter? In here Imani?
Dr. Imani Walker: No. [laughing]
MegScoop Thomas: You try to, you trying to–
Dr. Imani Walker: No no but please.
MegScoop Thomas: You trying to disguise yourself, it’s okay girl.
Dr. Imani Walker: I’ve been there.
MegScoop Thomas: I will give you some adv–
Dr. Imani Walker: I’ve been there though.
MegScoop Thomas: We’ll give you some advice, Imani. I mean, Penn. Okay. [laughing] Okay. Let me get back to the letter. She is starting to drain me. Oh, I forgot to mention this coworker is my supervisor.
Dr. Imani Walker: Ooh no.
MegScoop Thomas: I know way more than I should about this woman’s sex life, her poor mental health, and finances. I’m the kind of person that takes on people’s problems and energy as my own. So when she is complaining about her husband, I unintentionally go home and start arguments with my husband. Ooh girl. I started eating my lunch in my car so she can’t come vent to me about her life. But now she starts waiting for me in my office when I get in to vent instead, and recently started texting me, venting about all her problems. I can’t keep running or trying to avoid her. I need to get this relationship back on a professional level for my mental state, but I have no clue how to do that without making it weird. I admit I have a problem with avoiding confrontation of any kind. Ladies, please help me help myself.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, my God, Penn girl. Okay, okay. Look, [laughing] look, I had to. I was literally, like, holding, like, my mouth, so I wouldn’t say anything while Meg was reading, because I was like, girl, girl, girl. No, no, and no. Okay, Penn, look, if you a listener of this show, you know how much I love what? Boundaries. I love boundaries. Boundaries are great. They’re they’re necessary. And a lot of people think that boundaries are mainly for people who like you guys, like like friends or someone that you have like a, let’s say, a lateral type relationship with where the person isn’t over you, in a way. This is your supervisor. So, first of all, let let me just say, I have worked with people. I have had supervisors who have had terribly poor boundaries. And oftentimes I didn’t find myself working there for very long because just because we’re at work and we’re cool and you cool and I’m cool, there still has to be a delineation of responsibility. And just in terms of reporting.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like like I’m not here to kick it with you. Like, first of all, first of all, let me let me back up.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Let me back up. You said this. This woman, I’m guessing. Yeah. This is a woman. This woman comes to vent for you about her life and starts waiting for you in your office when you get in. Like, so anyway, Penn, you also wrote. I have no clue how to how to basically get your relationship back on track on a professional level without making a weird. It’s going to have to be weird because this because your supervisor made it has already made it super duper weird. So the–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Weirdness is going to be that you’re going to have to say, listen, here’s the thing um I really love, have loved getting to know you very well. But what I need when I’m here is to really just focus on my work. And I’m sure you understand that because you my supervisor, and I would say, listen, if you you know, if you need like a sounding board or if you need, you know, someone to talk to, you might want to, you know, seriously consider like maybe like [?] like getting a therapist or something else. But I would say it in that way. I mean, it’s going to be weird, but your sanity is really at stake, especially because you said that you unintentionally go home and start arguments with your husband because you’re the kind of person–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –That takes on people’s problems and energy as your own. So let me give you kind of like a well, let me give you some advice. I am a psychiatrist, as you know. And when I’m at work, I’m at work. A lot of a lot of that has to do with when I go to work, I dress differently. I have on my work clothes when I go to work, especially in my line of work, I have to have keys. So I have to like open the door and then like close it back. Like there’s definitely like a there are there are clear cut boundaries, not just with what I wear, but also with like architecturally, right? Like I’m now in a locked situation with these patients and other staff. When I turn that key and leave, whatever was at work stays at work and I’m off on my own. Like, I’m, I’m, I’m out doing my own thing because life is, it’s your life and things get hectic and things get a little crazy, but you need to be able to really establish the boundary of your professional life and your personal life. And also, you need to be able to tell your supervisor that she that she needs to respect your boundaries just as a person. Um. It’s I mean, it’s it’s I’m sure your supervisor thinks it’s really cute and it’s great that you guys, you know, have become friendly but y’all, you know, y’all ain’t friends like that and–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –You really shouldn’t be like I mean, me and my me and my boss, we we laugh and stuff and kiki and send each other memes and stuff sometimes. But I don’t know about his sex life, and nor do I want to know. And I don’t tell him about mine.
MegScoop Thomas: Right right.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like that’s, and I don’t know about his finances. Like, that’s a lot of this stuff, unfortunately. Like some of this stuff. I mean, I definitely know even my best friends, you know, stuff about her sex life and her finances, but I don’t know all of it like it’s, this is too much.
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: It’s too much. So I, you know, I said what I had to say, Meg, what do you say?
MegScoop Thomas: I say quick change your phone number.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: I’m just playing. [laughter] It may get to that point. But as of–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: –Right now I think it’s going to be weird. And I always say lean into the discomfort, which means you’re just going to have to accept that for a while. It’s it might be a little weird, um but what I think, you know, two things. If you actually think, you know, you care about your supervisor as a person, like, you know, I, I really do care about her and I hope she gets her situation taken care of. Then do this, which is be honest with her and tell her that, hey, you know, I I’m glad you chose to come to me to tell your problems to, you know, I’m glad you think you can trust me like that. However, I am a person that takes other people’s problems as my own. And I’m now having problems with my husband because you have problems with yours.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: And that’s not okay or I’m not getting work done because you’re in you’re talking to me and I want to do a good job here. If those if you’re if you care about her, say those things and then also say, hey, I do think it’s important that you talk to somebody because I feel like there’s a lot going on here. So there’s here’s a therapist suggestion, or maybe you should go to therapy or, you know, I’ve even gone to a therapist um you should look into it because it’s really helped me. You can do that now. She may receive that. She may not. So you have to be prepared for the consequences, which is if she doesn’t receive that, then you may have to get another job. That she might or you might have to talk to HR, because she might just decide like, oh, you’re doing me like that. Cool. I got you. And then just start treating you weird when it comes to the professional stuff. So there’s one route. Now if you don’t care about her, and you really just like girl, I come here to do my job and leave. Then I would just tell her, like, okay, well, I think I would, I wouldn’t be as nice about it. I would just probably say, okay, so I’m not getting any work done, so you should probably go back to your office or just hey I can’t talk about it today, I’ve got my own stuff going on and just continue to keep saying that and then she’ll eventually get the hint. Once she starts talking, you just be like eh eh eh.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: Can’t do it today. Got a lot going on. She might again. She may receive that. She may not. And then worst case scenario, just as soon as she starts talking to you about her life, you be like, oh, girl so, let me tell you about what happened to me. Okay? [laugh]
Dr. Imani Walker: True.
MegScoop Thomas: Taking over the conversation. She may she may just be like. Okay, well, I didn’t come here to listen to your problems or she may take that and love it and be like, yes, now we’re both sharing. I don’t know, girl.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know.
MegScoop Thomas: It depends on what kind of person she is. I just I do think you need to be you do need to say something because having this affect your life and your personal life is a no go.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: And then here’s the other part.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: I would say there’s another layer to this. You need to ask yourself why you have a problem um with confrontation, why you avoid it.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yes.
MegScoop Thomas: Because if you avoid confrontation with your boss nine times out of ten, you’re avoiding confrontation elsewhere in your life. So probably spend some time with that. And that may help you with figuring out boundaries with not only her, but other people.
Dr. Imani Walker: Well, that’s a really good point, because she may be unintentionally, quote unquote, “starting arguments with her husband” at the house because she is not a well, Penn is not able to really communicate her needs. Like I feel–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Like there’s a lot there’s like it’s really kind of murky. But I think what we’re both–.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Saying, Penn, is that you need to lean into the weird and it sounds like you may need some therapy just just to just to learn how to set these boundaries and also just to learn–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –You know, just just like confrontation is not not like a four letter word. Like it’s it’s really not. Like.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Sometimes you have to confront things and it’s not a it’s not a bad thing, but it is about people being able to respect your wishes and respect you just as a person.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: So I hope, you know, I hope that helped you. Um. And, you know, please let us know, like let us know what happens because I’m I’m really I’m really interested. Like I can I mean, I wasn’t gonna say this, but quite honestly, when I’ve had jobs where my supervisor was, you know, just had really bad boundaries, like, I quit, I was like, this is, this is stupid. Like, I can’t I’m not I’m not doing this with you. Um. But in any case, in any case we have we have another letter.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes. The next letter comes from Brittany. She says, Dr. Imani and Meg, my father and husband, had a big falling out back in August and are still not speaking to each other. Both are passive aggressive and stubborn. It’s causing me so much stress not all hanging as a family anymore. The holidays are coming up and I need them to make up already because I want us all to be together for the holidays. I don’t know how to get both of them to sit down and talk to each other. They’re both acting like the other doesn’t exist. We go by my dad’s house, my husband won’t get out of the car and my dad won’t even come to my house anymore. How do I get them to just end this feud? I’m devastated about this ladies.
Dr. Imani Walker: Hoooo. Okay, um let me just say that I’ve actually been in this position. Um.
MegScoop Thomas: Ooh.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, yeah, I’ve been in this position for sure, because my parents don’t like anybody, um but my parents really love um my partner now, which is so awesome and I’m so happy.
MegScoop Thomas: Yay!
Dr. Imani Walker: Yay, I know, right? Like, like, it’s really, really great, but Peter’s a really, really awesome person. Anyway. All right, so let me let me address this Brittany. It is very stressful, and I’m I feel really bad for you because it it’s not a fun place to be because you really want everybody to get along. And these are two people that you love very, very deeply. I mean, this is your husband and your dad. You say that you need for them to make up already because you want them all to be together for the holidays. But here’s the thing, you need them to make up because you want for all of y’all to kick it for the holidays. But that probably isn’t very realistic. I don’t know.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: You didn’t mention what the falling out was about, and quite honestly, the falling out may be justified. Maybe, I don’t. I’m making this up. Maybe your dad said something completely just disrespectful to your husband and vice versa. You know, these things take time and sometimes you’re not going to like, it’s it may not ever be like it was before, but it could mean that potentially your husband and your dad could at least come to some sort of middle ground and some sort of compromise. Like we will respect each other. Like, like, I will come in the house, I will be around you, but I won’t necessarily, like, interact with you in the same way. And honestly, I can say that, you know, time does heal all wounds, not all of them, but time can definitely heal some wounds. My dad did become a little more friendly to my ex-husband, but at the end of the day, he was like, when when I was like, yeah, we splittin up. He was like, yay. Um. So. [laughter] And I mean, you know, like, it’s it was hard for me at the time to see just how wack of a person my um my ex-husband was. And I guess all I’m saying is you, I know that you want to really, like, mend the fences, but it may be something that you kind of have to stay out of for now because–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –This is really it’s not it’s it’s you’re you’re stuck in the middle because you both love these two people. But unless it has to do explicitly with you as far as this feud, I would kind of I would leave it alone because at some point–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –These two men are they’re going to be around each other. And at some point, you know, they’re going to the conversation is going to be had or at least touched upon. So I would I would kind of stay out of it. Like, I mean, it sounds like I’m not going to sit here and say, Brittany, that you’re being selfish, but I know what you want. You want things like they were before, but they just not going to be like they were before.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: And you just going to have to–
MegScoop Thomas: Agreed.
Dr. Imani Walker: You know, you’re just going to have to accept that and just stay out of it and, you know, maybe like nudge your dad or nudge your your husband. And, you know, I mean, you know, just because I know, like, I don’t know Brittany if you have kids, but I know that when it comes to these types of family feuds, it’s really the kids who kind of lose out the most because–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: They want to be around their, you know, all their family. Like they want to be around their dad and they want their grandpa to be there. And so, um yeah, I would I would kind of stay out of it and just, you know, kind of give it time. Um. But, but I wouldn’t freak out and be like, Oh my God, with time it’s only going to make things fester. It’s if this isn’t any it this has nothing to do with you. I would leave it alone. So.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. Unfortunately, this is not up to you. They’re are two adult men and, you know, if they don’t want to talk to each other, you can’t force them to. And I know that sucks because I’m sure your family dynamic is different. As you said, holidays are coming up. Your husband don’t want to get out the car, your dad won’t come to your house. So you’re just going to have to see them separately. And I think if both of them love you, which I’m assuming they do, they’ll eventually see how much it hurts you. And then they hopefully they will go, okay, well, even though I don’t want to talk to the other one, I’ll at least come around. I’ll be cordial because I’ve seen that happen um in my family and other families where it’s just like, you know, over time it’s like, okay, well, I don’t like this person in the family, but I’ll still come around. I just won’t really have too much interaction with them. And if it becomes too much for me, I’ll leave. Like I’ve seen that happen. So hopefully you’ll at least get to that place. But you can’t push them, you know, you just kind of have to let them work it out on their own. And then you have to just go ahead and accept that it’s going to look like this for a while, if not forever. And so take your grieving moment, take your mourning moment, to be like, alright you know, this is not what I envisioned for us. However, you know, I’m going to still be a part of both of their lives, even if it doesn’t look like it did before.
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. So, Brittany, I hope that was helpful. I mean, I don’t know if you want to write us back and tell us, you know, what the big falling out was because I’m I’m just being nosy. I’m curious but if you don’t. If you don’t, that’s fine, too. That’s–
MegScoop Thomas: You could always tell your husband and your dad that you like dad, I’m getting another dad, husband I’m getting another husabnd. I’m not dealing with this. Then maybe see what happens then. I’m just playing girl. [laughter]
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl please. I wish. I mean, not that I wish I could have done that, but I was. It was very stressful for me and my mom and–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: But. But it’s over now, so. Whatever. Um. Anyway, [laugher] anyway, Penn and Brittany, thank you so much for submitting your questions and I hope that we were able to help you guys.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes. And if anyone has a question or a problem centered around your mental health and you want our professional and not so professional advice, please send your emails to AskDrImani@crooked.com and you can also text or leave us a voicemail at 818-252-9462. Hit us up!
Dr. Imani Walker: As some of you guys know, I’ve been really vocal on this show about my journey of co-parenting with my son’s dad, and we’ve gotten a lot of feedback from you listeners out there trying to keep your sanity while dealing with co-parenting with an ex. So we figured, let’s take a deep dive on how to protect your peace as you co-parent with your ex.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes, and I have a few guy and girlfriends that are tuning into this specific topic, so let’s get to it right after the break.
[AD BREAK]
Dr. Imani Walker: Okay y’all, it’s time to get into this deep dive about co-parenting with an ex. How do you keep that peace while trying to co-parent with an ex? Can you co-parent if you can’t stand your ex? [sigh] Um. I’ll talk about my journey. I don’t know. I mean, you can. Like, I’ll that’s what I’m saying. I’ll talk about my experience.
MegScoop Thomas: You kidding?
Dr. Imani Walker: My son um his dad. We were never really together. We tried to be together, but it just, you know, like, I mean, I’ve said this before, um basically, this was somebody that, you know, we were just like kind of, you know, hooking up. And it just so happened that I got pregnant this one time, and um and this was really the only time–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –In my life that I’ve ever been pregnant. I was 30. I gave myself the age of 30 um I told myself, listen, if you have, if you get pregnant um at 30 or over, like, you know, you got to, you know, take care of this child. And I only say that because by that point, pretty much up until that point in my life, I was always in school or training. And at that point, I was a resident um in in psychiatry. I wasn’t making a lot of money at all, but um I was like, you know what? I’m a work this out. So. Long story short, my son’s dad and I, uh we didn’t work out. We do not get along. We are cordial to each other. But here’s the great thing that I got really lucky in the in the in the sense that my mother decided after after it became abundantly clear that I was like, I’m going to kill him if I see him in person. [laughter] Like, that’s what’s going to happen. I can’t like I can’t. There was domestic violence situation that happened. It was it was a whole thing. I was like, I’m a kill I’m like, but I was like, I’m a kill this nigga if I see him, like like in person.
MegScoop Thomas: Wait hold on. Like you. Like you was trying to hit this man? Or [indistinct]
Dr. Imani Walker: No. I was–
MegScoop Thomas: [indistinct] when you say domestic violence.
Dr. Imani Walker: So I was I was. Well here, okay, here’s what I’ll say.
MegScoop Thomas: You were the aggressor?
Dr. Imani Walker: I, I had–
MegScoop Thomas: [indistinct]
Dr. Imani Walker: I had been the aggressor initially and then the very like so it was like one, two, that was me. And then the third time it was him. And it, you know, it just, it just got like way out of hand. And um so we had to we, you know, I had to get a restraining order and all this other shit. And it was just it was just a lot. And that was obviously well not obviously this happened when my son was like one and a half. And then ever since then, we just have not been on good terms. Um. He doesn’t live in Los Angeles anymore. He was actually living in New York where he still lives. And um, you know, we have our separate lives. Um. But like I was saying, my mother was like, you know what? Let me just be the go between in between y’all. Because even when I would see him, like, texting me, I was like, I’m a I was like, I’m a kill this nigga. I’m a kill him. I’m a kill him. [laughter] Like, I just. I was like, I just can’t. I was like, I just can’t. I can’t. So my mom has been the go between. But but the good thing is that, you know, as my son has gotten older, he’s 15 now. He’s actually about to be 16 soon. He has his own relationship with his dad. And so they communicate and they speak. So so as far as like arranging trips and stuff like that, like sometimes my son will go out to New York. My mom has gone with him on those trips and I’ll probably–
MegScoop Thomas: Okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Go with my son on um, you know, on a trip in the future. And I do understand that he has told me like he has my son has talked to his dad about it. Like he’s like, you know, my dad, he does acknowledge what he did wrong. And um he is a different person now. And and, you know, he’s he’s doing his thing. He’s married. He’s, you know, living his life. And I think that’s great. I you know, I think I think the main thing is that I personally just needed just a lot of time away from my ex. And what also has helped is the fact that my son can speak to him directly without–
MegScoop Thomas: Mm hmm.
Dr. Imani Walker: You know, without like my ex, my, my son’s dad calling my phone and then handing it to my son or texting me about, you know, trips or visits or whatever. So it did get easier. But I will tell you, the number one thing that has helped or or did help is the fact that we got everything in writing. So like we went to court, I lawyered up.
MegScoop Thomas: Mm okay.
Dr. Imani Walker: Like, I don’t I don’t quite understand how people can do it without that. I know that a lot of people do. And I understand why I mean, if you a Black or a Brown person, you really not trying to have the law in your business, especially when it comes to your kids–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: And your family. So I get it. I get it.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: But for me, I was just like, I’m not I’m not I’m not doing this like I like I will go like I will go to jail and I don’t want to go to jail. I got to raise–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –This child. Let me just lawyer up and get this thing taken care of. Now, we have so we do have a custody agreement. I have full custody. He has visitation um until my son is 18. It took it took a while for him to sign everything. And that’s par for the course because he was like, well, you know, I don’t agree with this and I don’t agree with that. I was like, well, listen, unless you counter with something, you know, like I don’t.
MegScoop Thomas: [laughing] Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: I don’t I don’t know what to tell you. Like this shit needs to be signed. It took a while um, but he signed it–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Years ago. And honestly, to tell you the honest truth it’s not even like he really abides by it because now he’s out of the state. So I mean, but hones–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: But I think when it comes to co-parenting, you always have to remember to put your kids first. And you always–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: –you know if you if you want sanity like legit, just like go to court. Go to court, you know, just like–
MegScoop Thomas: You know and yeah, I was going to say that makes it in some situations that’s the best thing because you have two people who just can’t come to an agreement. Um. I’ll say for my fiance, when I met him, he had two children, um one had just gone to college at the time. The other one was starting like ninth grade, eighth grade, ninth grade.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh okay.
MegScoop Thomas: And I remember just like, yeah, this was kind of I was kind of like, uh okay, what’s the situation here? Because I’m stepping into, you know, you got two children. Like, what’s the situation? Am I going to get ambushed by this lady, your ex-wife or what? And, you know, he had let me know, like, hey, we worked this out years ago because it had been a while since they were married. And and basically, like, I looked at his co-parenting situation and I’m like, I love it. I’m like, wow, if I was ever to be in a situation where you and I had children, because this was before we had kids, if you and I had children and you know, something didn’t work out with us. I would love for it to be like that. I think that’s one of the reasons why I did like him at the very beginning.
Dr. Imani Walker: Aww.
MegScoop Thomas: Because of how he handled–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: –His co-parenting situation. They they don’t have an agreement. They have always just you know been very respectful of each other and each other’s wishes to the point where when he and I started to get serious, he was like, hey, my ex-wife wants to meet you, you know, because he had his son part time. And you know, and that’s like understandable, right? I’m going to be around I’m going to be around when her son’s there so like if I was a mom, at the time I was like, I would want to do the same thing. So when I met her, I was like, I don’t know what to expect. Am I going to have to catch these hands? [laugh] Am I going to have to throw hands? Like, I’m thinking, like, what is this situation? And I met her. And I will tell you, I think my fiance’s ex-wife is a wonderful woman, like to the point where–
Dr. Imani Walker: Aww.
MegScoop Thomas: –if I didn’t even know my fiance. I think me and her would be like homegirls like kicking it in these streets.
Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, nice.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, she’s that cool. Yeah. And she, you know, when she met me, she was like, hey, I just, you know, I heard a lot about you. And, you know, my son said you’re great. And I just, you know, as long as you treat him with respect, you love him like you’re good with me. And that was it. And I was like, you know what? I, I can get down–
Dr. Imani Walker: That’s what’s up.
MegScoop Thomas: –With that because think at the end of the day, you you just want somebody to treat your child the way you would, right?
Dr. Imani Walker: Mmm.
MegScoop Thomas: You want them to love on them. You want them to be kind. And and if that’s the case, then why should you be mad about anything? And so it was cool that she stepped to me like that. And then when I saw how her and my fiance ex- my fiance, his ex and I’m sorry, my fiance and his ex were together how they speak to each other and how they communicate about their child. I was like, oh, this is beautiful. Like, y’all are real cool. They’re very respectful. Like, I love it. I dig it. And I it takes a whole lot of, to me it takes a whole lot of respect to do that.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, no exactly. Exactly like. [sigh] I, you know. Do I respect my son’s dad? No. Like, you know, [laughter] I don’t I don’t fuck with him. Like, I don’t I don’t fuck with him. Do I respect my son? Yes. Do I respect the love that I, my son has for his dad? Yes. Because here’s the thing. I’m also the the product of divorce. And when my parents split up, my dad just broke out. My mom didn’t have any co-parenting. There was no other like my there was no other parent for her to co-parent with. But she did–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Understand that like, you know, even to this day, I know that what my dad did was super fucked up, but I still love my dad because that’s my dad.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Um. And it’s–
MegScoop Thomas: Right.
Dr. Imani Walker: –Okay to love someone that hard, but also hold them accountable. My son knew what had happened between him and him and his dad as far as the domestic violence situation. I had told him and he was like, you know, for now I will say this for a good six months, he didn’t talk to his dad. He was like, I can’t fuck with you. Like, this is way too much for me to deal with. And he was pretty young, I want to say he was maybe like 11 or 12, Um, as he got older. Yeah. When he went to New York, he was like, I’m a talk to my dad about it. And he was able to talk to his dad about it a little bit, not as much as he wanted to. Um. The situation wasn’t favorable for them to talk in that in that particular um environment. But but that being said, I have to respect the fact that he loves his dad like he he look he, my son love his raggedy dad. Okay? And that’s all I really can. [laugh] That’s like like that’s like I just I have to I have to respect that because I I get it. Yeah I get it, still.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah and you know, at the end of the day, as long as the other parent is like not harming them physically, emotionally, like you kind of just got to let everything go, right, because. Because at the end, you guys are going to always parent differently. You’re different people. You grew up different. You have different view values in the world. But I think all of that put together is what makes our children great, right? Our experience–
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: –And then the other parents experience. As long as there’s no abuse involved. So because–
Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly.
MegScoop Thomas: I don’t, even though me and my fiance are together and I look at our children and he does stuff and I’ll be like, okay, I’m not really down with that. I have to–
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: –Also go. Okay. Megan, is this harming our kids? No, it’s just–
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: –Not how I would choose to do it. And that’s okay–
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: –Because that, you know, that gives your children more experiences and makes them more well-rounded to me.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I’ve actually always really admired I mean, at least what we know of and it seems to be pretty positive. I’ve always really admired like Jada Pinkett and um Will Smith’s ex Sheree Zampino. Um. I’ve really always respected their relationship because I believe wait was Will. I don’t think Will was married to Sheree, was she?
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, they were married.
Dr. Imani Walker: They were married. Okay. Okay. Yeah, not for long but but I’ve always really appreciated like they’re like you would see them, you know, in pictures. This was before the gram and social media. But you would see like Will and Jada and like all their kids together, um you know, you would, you know, when, when social media came out, you would see them together like they would, you know, take little photos and stuff. And it was obvious that, like, they had a really good relationship. I loved when I think there was like an awards ceremony or something and it was like Sheree was always there. Always there. And I just thought that that was really, really dope. And just like how you were speaking about Meg, about your fiancee, like, actually really like having like not more love for him, but just really being like, oh my God, like, you’re such an awesome person knowing that he still had respect and treated his ex, you know, with respect and and because they just had love for their kids. I mean, it’s really it just it kind of tips you from, oh, I think this guy is, like, really cool and like, he’s so cute. And like, you know, I think I love him to like, oh, my God, like, like you it. You know, like, that’s it’s it’s really it’s really beau– a beautiful thing to see. Now, you know, let’s switch gears to Kim and Kanye, that’s a different situation because Kanye is mentally unstable and admits it and you know it’s it’s I don’t I don’t quite know how to co-parent with someone who’s mentally unstable um because they really have to work on themselves first. So, I mean, unfortunately, I have seen I have friends, um even my mom’s parents when she was young, they they did not get along and they eventually divorced and they had to go to court. And it was a whole thing. But unfortunately, I’ve seen more people in, like have kids and in relationships or in relationships with their with their ex where it was difficult to co-parent because you deal with a lot of vindictiveness and, you know, people want like retribution for feeling wronged and then god forbid you get with somebody new. And but I always say I’m like, listen, if y’all want if you want this to just be knocked out and just have this thing be as smooth as possible, I’m like, go to court. Go to court.
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Imani Walker: Go to court. Yeah. It’s just. It’s easier. Like, it’s just. It makes it because, listen, even after I had. Even after me and my my son’s dad got our custody agreement it like he would still be asking me stuff. I’m like, that’s not in the agreement. Look at the agreement. No, you. No, no, no. You cannot do that. No, you can’t do that. And I also will say, you know, when when there’s a situation where the parents are trying to co-parent, but they have a toxic relationship. I mean, you know, sometimes you can’t help it. Sometimes, you know, you try your best. Like, let’s say you’re the, you know, parent who’s trying really, really hard, but your ex just is too upset or too mad at you or you moved on and they’re just you know, they’re just out for blood. What what you end up creating is is is someone like me, like you, basically you. It’s not a terrible thing. But you know how to satisfy your mom. You know how to satisfy your dad. You know, like what to talk about in the presence of your mom. You know what not to talk about in the presence of your mom and vice, and you know, and in front of your dad. And and it it I will say that it has helped me. You guys all know that I love boundaries. It definitely has helped me in establishing boundaries as far as like I can talk to you about this, but I can’t talk to you about this. Um. I don’t think that it’s necessarily, you know, like, oh, it’s awful. And if you guys don’t get along completely, then your kid is doomed. No, I just think that, you know, your you will have a child who will be able to effectively be able to, like, switch it up. And that’s not bad. That’s not bad. But but I mean, like Megan said, unless, you know, you’re concerned about your ex harming your child emotionally, physically, then, you know, I just say, you know, because I mean, listen, there’s things that my son be like, oh, me and my dad did this. And I’m just like, Good Lord. But I’m like, you know, you have fun, you not dead so what can I say? I wouldn’t have done it, but I mean, what am I going to say? So, I mean, I think I think the take home is, you know, if you can’t if the relationship is too toxic, go to court. Um. And if you guys can, you know, reach a amicable and if you guys can reach an amicable point in your relationship and you guys can respect each other and, you know, you can just walk away from your relationship, but also maintain that your a semblance of your relationship for your child. And I don’t mean just, you know, like smashing on the low. I mean, actually, not that, I mean, actually being friends and being friends for the sake of your of your kids, then do that. Do that. But I think it’s great. I think it’s great that your fiance and his ex-wife, like, don’t need an agreement. I think that’s awesome. I wish that were the case with me. But girl, you know, how people be. So. So no, that’s that’s not that’s not what we can do. But you know what? Um. I hope that this was helpful for you guys. And that’s all the time we have for our deep dive conversation for today.
MegScoop Thomas: That was such a good discussion. But let’s move on to our favorite segment of pop culture diagnosis. [music break]
Dr. Imani Walker: Hey, everybody. We will be mentioning rape and suicide in this segment. So if these are triggers for you, this is the time to tune out. Okay. Let’s get right into our pop culture diagnosis for this week because this show is crazy. Okay. So, Meg, can you please give listeners a quick synopsis of the Peacock original series, A Friend of the Family, Girl and who we are going to diagnose today?
MegScoop Thomas: Yes, this show is wild because it’s based on a true story um about the Broberg family in the seventies. Now, their daughter Jan got kidnapped not once but twice by their family friend, Robert Berchtold. It’s crazy to me how like how on earth did that happen? So we’re going to diagnose Robert because this is, this man is a [groan] master manipulator.
Dr. Imani Walker: This man. Okay. And you hit it right on the head. He’s a master manipulator. Honestly. We’re going to play a little quiz. Okay, before I even get into it. If you describe somebody as a master manipulator, what do you think their diagnosis is?
MegScoop Thomas: Oooh, girl, don’t tell me, um a psychopath.
Dr. Imani Walker: So, Robert Berchtold. Yes. Robert Berchtold or affectionately known as Brother B, Brother B um on this show. And I guess in these people’s lives, the Brobergs. Brother B, [laugh] this man. Okay, let me let me let me back up. When the show first begins, the actual like real life Jan, real life Jan Broberg introduces the show. So this is the before the first episode starts and she was like, listen, like this is like I’m paraphrasing. She was like, listen, I know that this is going to seem crazy, but you got to remember, this was a different time, girl. It was 1973, okay? It was not that different. Now, I don’t. Okay. Let me let me also say these were white people in Idaho. Ida– Yeah, I think Idaho. Yeah, Idaho. And they’re Mormons. So they’re Mormons. Now, um quick, like quick, quick mental note. Remember, do you also remember who was up in Idaho and were Mormons that we talked about recently as far as pop culture diagnosis?
MegScoop Thomas: Yes, that Vallow.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yes. Lori Vallow. So Idaho, I don’t know what’s up with y’all, I don’t know what’s up with you and the Mormon population up there, but y’all, y’all be. Listen, I know y’all be like I ain’t trying to go to no major city because it’s wild over there. I don’t want to go to Idaho right now. Okay. I’m kind of cool on Idaho. I don’t know what is going on over there between y’all killing y’all’s spouses and y’all kids. And then this happened back in the seventies. So when Jan when when real Jan comes on the show and was like, I want to introduce this show and be and you know, it was, I just want to remind y’all, it was a different time. I was like, girl, it wasn’t a different time that was just Idaho. Idaho was wild. Okay. Like, I just I cannot with Idaho? Anyway, so long story short, Robert Berchtold. So let me just let me just also say that there’s two Roberts. There’s Robert Broberg, who is Jan, the girl who was kidnapped twice, her dad. So Robert Broberg. And then there’s Robert Berchtold, right. They call him Bob. Then there’s Robert Berchtold, who everyone calls Brother B, okay? So there’s two Bob, Bob B.’s. There’s Brother B who’s bad B, Bad Bob, and then there’s Bob Broberg, who’s the good Bob. Anyway, long story short, Robert Berchtold or Brother B starts pretty early on grooming the family. And when I say the family, I’m not talking about the family for the sake of yes eventually he kidnaps Jan, their daughter, one of their daughters. I mean, he groomed the family girl did–
MegScoop Thomas: Yeah. [indistinct] Like he befriended them. He just made his way into the family like–
Dr. Imani Walker: He made his–
MegScoop Thomas: He became their uncle.
Dr. Imani Walker: He made his way. And they were this family was so trusting, obviously, to a fault, like out like like there was one particular and now that this is what was at least dramatized in the series. In the show. That’s that’s still on Peacock right now. It’s not finished. At one point, Brother B, Bad Bob goes up to the mom and he was like, they and they and then in um they in the mom’s crib, they in Jan mom’s crib. And so he was like, Yeah, you know, I figured I would help you out because, you know, you got all these kids and I got all these kids cause we mormans and stuff girl. So, like, what if I take your kids and my kids to school in the morning? And so Jan’s mom is like, well, actually, I’m okay with the kids walking to school because it’s warm outside. It’s going to be warm soon. And he was like, Girl, that’s cool. Don’t even trip. Um. I hear you. And, you know, basically he was like, All right, you know, I hear what you’re saying. Girl the next day, this fool show up like, okay, I’m ready to take the kids to school. And she was like, well um, this is kind of weird, but okay, like they just the naivete that they displayed. I mean, yes, I understand people going to be like, well, Imani, you know, it’s always real easy to say that, you know, you can say that and because hindsight’s 2020, if I told no. The answer is no. Brother B, the answer is no. Okay. Like you can. You know what? Thank you. You can get right back in your car and drive your own kids to school. My kids are going to be walking to work. I mean, not to work, [laughter] my kids are going to be walking to school.
MegScoop Thomas: But I do get that, though, the fact that she because think about it, in the seventies, though, cause you know, this is before people were speaking out about sexual abuse and about predators, pedophiles like back then it just kind of you just didn’t think it existed for anyone you knew. Cause it just wasn’t talked about like that. Right?
Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, I guess, I had a Black mom. I don’t I mean, she was like, no. I said no.
MegScoop Thomas: Like, I know now I would never I would never let anybody do that right now, I have a little girl like I am suspicious of everybody, but it’s also because of–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: –The day and age. So maybe that’s part of it.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. No, I’m like I said, I said no. I said no. The answer’s no. I don’t even know like why like why are you here, like go take your kids to school, no. So [sigh] how do I? Okay, I want to get to like like the stu– like and now, granted, the crazy part of the story is that Jan gets kidnapped twice. The first time she gets kidnapped, he took her to Mexico and married her. She was 12. Okay.
MegScoop Thomas: He told her some story about, story about he needed to marry her, about aliens or something. He didn’t want uh she needed to have a baby with him to keep the aliens away.
Dr. Imani Walker: Something, girl I was just like, come on, man. I’m like, this is even to the point, girl. Even in the point, there’s so so the the uh the D.A. who’s trying to prosecute Brother B after he had kidnapped Jan and then married her in Mexico, um the D.A. So it’s the D.A., Jan’s parents, and the FBI agent who’s been working with the parents to get bring Jan home. Now, Jan’s home. So they’re going to you know, they’re trying to they’re going to put Brother B on trial. And so the parents leave. And the FBI agent says to the D.A., he was like, well, I mean, you know, like, you know, they they Mormons like, you know, they kind of naive and the the D.A. was like, bitch, I’m a mormon. I’m a mormon. So don’t even don’t try to use that as like, oh, they naive. He was like, I’m a mormon and you don’t see my kids getting kidnapped. So please stop. Like I don’t know what was going on with this family, but here’s the thing, girl. Here’s the craziest part. The craziest part isn’t even about Jan. The crazy part is that Brother B has sex with the mom and the dad separately.
MegScoop Thomas: Yes.
Dr. Imani Walker: I mean.
MegScoop Thomas: And and as much as Jan tries to say that there’s nothing wrong with her parents, like her parents were loving to her, they didn’t know, you know, they were just manipulated as well.
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: There’s clearly something wrong with her parents. The fact that both of them succumbed to this man’s manipulation sexually and her father was like, I’m not gay, but, you know, I allowed myself to do some homosexual things and that like the fact that that happened tells me there’s something going on with both of your parents that they were not in their right mind because they let this man do things to them that they said that that wasn’t, they didn’t want him to do.
Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, you know, how we were talking about like, you know, the potential of parents being bad to their kids. I mean, usually it’s because the parents are actually doing something to the kids. Right, or that’s how we think of it. This was literally they were abusing their child because they really were not, it’s like they almost weren’t like adults. You know, it was almost like they didn’t really understand how the world works. I’m like, I’m like, why are you giving Brother B a handjob? What is it like? You don’t have to do that. And also, Jan’s mom, why are you having a full on affair? Listen, with Brother B after he took your child and you know he married her in Mexico. I can’t, I was like, I can’t do this. I can’t do this. After, after, after after the trial. After the trial where Brother B, you know, like after the trial, I was just like, this is insanity. So I feel like I not only have to diagnose Brother B, but I also need to diagnose the parents. The parents? I don’t know, like I. I don’t know. Were they codependent? I don’t know. Did they have, like, dependent personality disorder? I don’t you know what I mean? Like, I it’s it’s kind of difficult because I don’t know. I only know as much about them as I’ve seen on the documentary on Netflix about this same topic and also this show. You know, I think they’re nai– I think it definitely naivete but definitely like past the point of naivete in like I feel like they were just codependent or there’s some codependency or some dependent personality disorder traits. I know that, you know, they were very, very involved in the Mormon Church and Brother B was a part of the Mormon Church as well. He was kind of a late convert and had found, you know, had found had come to Mormonism later. But I mean, it was, this show, the fact that it’s real is crazy. Now, we’ve already diagnosed Brother B as being a psychopath. Let me tell you, the bitch assness about of Brother B, okay? Not only did he assault another little girl after Jan, okay, but when he was finally, finally brought like brought to justice, basically when he was about to go on trial um for simple assault, disorderly conduct, and criminal trespassing. And this was years after stalking Jan for after he abducted her. This motherfucker killed himself. Right. He killed himself right before the trial was start, was supposed to start. I was like, damn you a ho. You, I’m like you like, that shit is so infuriating to me. I’m just like, you know what you did? You know what you did? And it’s like, ugh I can’t take it. I mean, yes, I’m not even going to say RIP to Brother B, I just like yes, when people when people commit suicide, it’s always very sad. This this to me is not sad, I’m like well then. I’m like, honestly, you were never fit to roam the earth, you got to go like you’re you’re a monster. You are a monster. So.
MegScoop Thomas: And then he also, wasn’t he married? He was married and had kids, too right?
Dr. Imani Walker: He was married to this woman. Who, this bitch listen. This bitch went, at least in the show, went to the parents, went to Jan’s parents and was like, well, I suggest that you get with um with our attorney, because if this goes to trial, he’s going to reveal some things about the both of y’all and especially your husband. Talking to Jan’s parents. And so then Jan’s dad, um Bob uh Bob Broberg, had to tell his wife, well, yeah, I gave Brother B a handjob in a car. So all this was used at trial. Like well isn’t your isn’t you know, Jan is, you know, your dad is homosexual or what? Like, it was just and he was like, I’m not homosexual. I just gave him a handjob like damn like, leave me alone. It’s this it’s it’s so, like, I’ll put it to you like this. I love true crime stuff. This this is so infuriating to me. Like, I don’t even know if I can finish watching the series because I’m just like, this is absurd. Like, this is just absurd. I just I’m like, I can’t do this. [laughing]
MegScoop Thomas: I feel I feel bad for the real Jan Broberg. But, you know, she seems to be like pretty normal despite all of the craziness that’s happened to her. But I will tell you there is–
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah.
MegScoop Thomas: Like, there’s no way there’s I don’t–
Dr. Imani Walker: There’s no way.
MegScoop Thomas: –[indistinct] I’m a firm believer that you can heal from anything. But this is hard to tell me that you’ve healed from this. Knowing what happened to your parents, knowing what happened like this what this man did to you. Brainwashed you. You know, he kidnapped you at 12 and raped you. And multiple times and had you thinking that was correct. He, you know, you–
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: –Ran away and he kidnapped you again at 14. It’s just I don’t know how you, and she says, I was watching like um like a Dateline type of interview with her. And she was saying how he like she really was in love with him. And I’m like–
Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm.
MegScoop Thomas: That is obsc–
Dr. Imani Walker: Girl.
MegScoop Thomas: Like at 13, 14?
Dr. Imani Walker: But the story, the story that like that Bob Berchtold told this girl about the aliens and if if if we don’t have sex and have a baby, then they planet is going to die. I mean, ugh I’ve been 13 before, too. I’ve been 12 before, too. And they’re just I mean, I don’t know, like, [indistinct].
MegScoop Thomas: No but wait, hold on. Because you was New York twelve. New York twelve is like Idaho nineteen.
Dr. Imani Walker: [laughter] I mean, I mean, yeah. I mean, to a to a degree, I was still pretty naive, but it was like, I’m sorry what? Aliens? Bitch get outta my face. Please leave me alone. Stranger danger, get out of here. No, I mean, I just. No, no, I’m. It’s just, I’m. I definitely empathize with Jan, and what happened to her is awful. I definitely I’m not blaming her, but I’m just like, girl, come on, now. Come on, come on, y’all. I know, I know it was a different time, but I was born in 1975, too. And I had some Black ass parents and shit was not going down like that. So come on now.
MegScoop Thomas: See that, keyword Black ass, Black ass parents.
Dr. Imani Walker: Right.
MegScoop Thomas: That is–
Dr. Imani Walker: Black ass parents right.
MegScoop Thomas: [indistinct] that’s something that tells you everything you need to know.
Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, I was like, no, uh uh we not going to do this so in any case, that is Friend of the Family. It is now streaming on Peacock. You know, don’t don’t say that we didn’t warn you. It’s it is. It is it is out of control. It’s out of control. Um. And you know what? Bob Berchtold you exactly where you need to be, dead. And not, not walking this earth so. Oh, God, that’s it y’all. That’s it for Pop Culture Diagnosis. I’m spent. Um. [laughing] We’re going to have another fun character to analyze next week. If you guys have suggestions for fictional characters out there that you would like for me to diagnose, hit me up on Twitter at @doctor_Imani, hit Meg up on Instagram at @MegScoop and email the show at AskDrImaniAnything@Crooked.com. And again, if you are enjoying the show, don’t forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast apps. And that includes, hold on, let me find it. That includes Meg Owls 13 or Migals13 up on um Apple Podcasts. I’m glad that you love quote “this little podcast”. I really, really I really love that comment. Uh. Please keep listening. And if you leave a comment and I see it, I’m a shout you out on uh on next on upcoming shows. So thank you as always for listening to Imani State of Mind. Thank you to Meg for co-hosting. And we will be back for an all new episode next week. [music break] This is a Crooked Media production. Our executive producer is Sandy Girard. Our producer is Lesley Martin. Music from Vasilis Fotopoulos, edited by Veronica Simonetti and special thanks to Brandon Williams, Gabi Leverette, Mellani Johnson and Matt DeGroot for promotional support.
