• We are just 39 days away from President-elect Donald Trump’s inauguration. But Democrats are still trying to figure out what went wrong in 2024, and how to fix it before 2026. Wisconsin Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin breaks down why she thinks she won re-election in a swing state, in which Trump also won, and how Democrats are approaching the president-elect’s cabinet picks.
• Later in the show, Politico senior defense correspondent Conner O’Brien explains what’s actually in the big defense bill House lawmakers passed Wednesday.
• And in headlines: FBI Director Christopher Wray says he will resign when President Joe Biden leaves office in January, Grocery store chain Albertsons called off its merger with fellow mega grocer Kroger, and a federal judge in Texas put a stop to the sale of Alex Jones’s Infowars to the Onion.

• Check out Connor’s reporting – politico.com/staff/connor-obrien
• Subscribe to the What A Day Newsletter – https://tinyurl.com/3kk4nyz8
• What A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcast

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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Thursday, December 12th. I’m Jane Coaston. This is What a Day, the show that did not fake its Spotify wrapped list to show a bunch of songs by Bruce Springsteen. Unlike New Jersey Representative Josh Gottheimer, my Spotify wrapped just perfect and real and contains no Bruce Springsteen because I am not a sportswriter in my late 50s. [music break] On today’s show, Dr. Phil? Yes. Dr. Phil talks immigration policy with the incoming borders czar. And the sale of Infowars is going back to the drawing board. Let’s get into it. We are just 39 days away from President elect Donald Trump’s inauguration, and I am not excited about it, and probably neither are you. So it makes sense that Democrats are still trying to figure out what went wrong in 2024 and how to fix it before 2026, when midterm elections could flip the House and maybe, just maybe, the Senate. Clearly, something went wrong. How can we get it right? Did we lose because we moved too far to the center? Too far to the left? Were there too many groups? Was it Gaza? Inflation? Anti-incumbency? Not enough press conferences? Too many press conferences? Podcasts, social media, misogyny, racism, not enough dudes? Trump’s weird celebrity? Should Democrats just sound more like Republicans? Okay, not that. But seriously, what was it? I don’t think we can learn much from cable news pundits. Trust me, I’ve been a cable news pundit. But I do think that someone who might have some ideas on what can work to win elections and what doesn’t is someone who won a tough Senate race in a critical swing state that Donald Trump won, so I called up Wisconsin Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin. We talked about what she learned from her race that could help the next generation of Democrats. And we chatted about Trump’s cabinet picks and what she and other Democrats are trying to get done before the holiday recess. Senator Baldwin, welcome back to What a Day. 

Tammy Baldwin: It’s great to be back. 

Jane Coaston: So you have about a week left before Congress breaks for the holidays. And when you come back, a new class and a Republican majority will be sworn in. What are the three things you want to tackle before returning to Wisconsin? 

Tammy Baldwin: Well, uh we want to keep the government open. We want to fund the government. So we have that to do before all is said and done. Um. I want to get as many uh Biden nominated judges on the federal bench as absolutely possible. We think we can get a few more across the finish line. There’s a couple of vacancies on important boards and commissions that we want to make sure we follow through with before we lose President Biden. And um so lots of work in front of us in the remaining week and a couple of days. 

Jane Coaston: I don’t know if you know this, but Donald Trump has nominated a lot of um unorthodox people for really important jobs in the government. Democrats don’t have the power to sink them on their own. So what can the party do to push back on some of these picks? 

Tammy Baldwin: Well, I think what we can do is make sure that we’re insisting on full vetting, including FBI background checks. And when we convene in January, these nominees are going to come before the committees. And I think being really prepared to highlight when these nominees are not in line with our values. You know, I look at all of these folks with an eye towards fighting for the people of my state. And so I’m going to, you know, first, are they qualified? But secondly, are we going to be able to work together to make sure, say, in the event of Health and Human services, that Wisconsin children have access to vaccines? We don’t want mumps and measle outbreaks. These are the type of priorities that I and then the lens through which I’m going to look at these nominees, uh the ones especially that come before my committee. 

Jane Coaston: But can you enforce a full vetting process on these nominees? What can Democrats do if the Trump team, which has been intimidating Republicans for the last three weeks, won’t do it? And if you can’t force that, what recourse will you have? 

Tammy Baldwin: Yeah, well, we have folks that are trying to do independent vetting from the public record. They don’t have access to the same things that the FBI does. But if they are obstructing that process and not allowing the FBI to do a full review, we also have to point that out and, you know, just make sure that the record is entirely clear. And then I’m also reaching across the aisle as we get more and more information about these nominees. Um. You know, I’m going to talk to some of my Republican colleagues who I think might have some of the same doubts about these nominees as we’re talking about publicly. 

Jane Coaston: Who have you been reaching out to? 

Tammy Baldwin: Well, I’m going to wait until until January. But I’ve been listening to some of the conversations that have been going on behind the scenes. Of course, they want to keep their powder dry on the Republican side before the confirmation hearings actually start. But I know folks who have been expressing doubts and I certainly want to connect with some of them moving forward. 

Jane Coaston: Are you meeting with or do you plan to meet with any of Trump’s cabinet picks? 

Tammy Baldwin: I want to meet with as many of them as I can. And in fact, I will be meeting with Sean Duffy, who’s a former Wisconsin congressman who’s been nominated to run the Department of Transportation. I’m looking forward to the to the meeting. And having worked with him across the party aisle on some Wisconsin transportation issues in the past. I think it’s going to be an interesting discussion. 

Jane Coaston: I know it’s early. I know. Do you plan to vote in favor for any of Trump’s nominees? 

Tammy Baldwin: I think there’s a good chance with somebody like Sean Duffy, who I think would be serious about the role of running the Transportation Department. But there are many who I am very concerned about and very skeptical that they’ll be able to earn my vote based on what I know so far. 

Jane Coaston: Who are those nominees that you’re most worried about? 

Tammy Baldwin: Well, I would say Mr. Hegseth and Kash Patel. Those are two right off the bat that I’m extremely concerned about. 

Jane Coaston: So far, Democrats seem to be letting Republicans kind of cannibalize themselves over these nominees, which I won’t lie. It seems to have worked. But as we head into the actual confirmation hearings next year, how do you see the Democrats strategy changing to combat some of Trump’s more problematic picks? 

Tammy Baldwin: So I think we have to use the process that we have to um uh to really make the record and pin down these nominees on critical issues and make it very difficult for some of our Republican colleagues to cast a vote in support to confirm some of these folks that have very troublesome records, have said very troublesome things about politicizing their departments and especially those who are embracing elements of Project 2025. We need to we need to bring that out. 

Jane Coaston: Are there areas where you think you can work with the Trump administration? 

Tammy Baldwin: You know, I’ve been through a Trump administration. And um and so, you know, there were a handful of issues, sadly, not too many, but a handful of issues on which I did work with the administration. I considered myself a big champion of buy America rules. And Trump talked a lot about Buy America provisions. Um. He didn’t do a lot of follow through, but I reached out a lot to say, You know, this bill would be a really good opportunity to add some Buy America rules. There’s a couple of other issues. You know, he always claimed that he wanted to close the carried interest loophole. I’d love to see that closed. I’d work with the administration on that particular provision. But there are you know the issues are few and far between. But yeah, I’m going to try to seize any one that I can, especially when it helps me fight for my state. 

Jane Coaston: Now, Democrats are still working through why Vice President Kamala Harris lost the election in every swing state. You’re in an interesting position because there are a host of voters in Wisconsin who voted for Donald Trump and you. So what’s your theory of the case? Because your state, Wisconsin, was one of those swing states and you won. 

Tammy Baldwin: Right. So, you know, I can tell you what I did that I think was helpful in leading to my victory. And that is that I have a strategy of trying to get everywhere around the state and to listen, deeply listen and then deliver for the people of my state. And I’ve had a period of time now to do that. Kamala Harris had 107 days to do that. And she did come to Wisconsin very frequently. And it was super, super close. And the other thing that’s said about this election is that it was a change election that people really, really are worried about the cost of things and um frustrated and concerned about the direction the country is going in. So it’s not surprising from that perspective that they would vote against the incumbent party in the White House. And I think one of the reasons why I escaped those heavy headwinds was, again, because I built relationships across the state over many years. 

Jane Coaston: Now, our listeners are like me, anxious about Trump’s return to the White House and just anxious in general, honestly. So what’s your message to my listeners over the next four years? 

Tammy Baldwin: Okay. Breathe. Seriously. Um. I understand that anxiety is real, and for some, it’s sleepless nights even. So we do have to take care of ourselves so that we’re strong to fight. Um. We also have to work as hard as we can in the midterm elections to flip the House back to Democratic control. We’re so close uh right now in terms of the spread between the two. And we also have to try to do the same with the U.S. Senate. It’s a little more complicated because only a third of the Senate is up every um every two years. But we also have to lay the foundation of proving to the American voters whose side we are on and reminding them that Donald Trump is betraying them. He said he was for the working person. Wait until you see his tax proposal. Wait until you see him take money out of the pockets of hard working people to give them to the very rich and big corporations. We got to make sure that everyone is crystal clear. That he promised a lot of things in this last election and he is breaking his word. And we know this is coming. 

Jane Coaston: Senator Baldwin, as always, thank you so much for being here. 

Tammy Baldwin: Jane, thank you so much for having me on. It’s great to see you and be with your listeners. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Wisconsin Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: And now the news. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Tom Homan] Those three rails will start the first day. Number one we’ll secure the border. Number two, we’ll run the deportation operation. And number three, now look, with these 300,000 kids we’ll find them too. 

Jane Coaston: Tom Homan, the incoming White House border czar went on Dr. Phil Primetime on Dr. Phil’s network, also known as Merit TV, to talk about Trump’s mass deportation plan. Reminder Homan led ICE during the first Trump administration’s zero tolerance policy, which separated thousands of kids from their parents. Those are the missing kids he mentions in the clip. In the multi-part interview this week, Homan told Dr. Phil exactly what he wants to do starting January 21st, 2025. 

[clip of Tom Homan] Day one, we’re going to be looking for these public safety threats, arresting them, detaining them and deporting them. And if these sanctuary city mayors don’t want to help, then get the hell out of the way because we’re coming and we’re doing it. 

Jane Coaston: Homan also mentioned that there will be a citizen phone number he hopes people use to report their undocumented neighbors to ICE. I’m sure that will go just as they expect. Texas Land Commissioner Dawn Buckingham was a guest at one of the live recordings. She spoke with Homan and Dr. Phil about her offer to build deportation facilities on 1400 acres of state land. 

[clip of Dawn Buckingham] If there’s a way to help get these violent criminals off of our soil who are raping and murdering our sons and daughters, we want to be a part of that. 

[clip of Dr. Phil] Yeah. Is there a plan to utilize that? 

[clip of Tom Homan] I’m writing the plan as we speak. I was working on it last night. Matter of fact. 

Jane Coaston: The role of border czar does not require Senate confirmation. That may explain why Homan has done at least 20 interviews in the past month promoting Trump’s plans for mass deportations. FBI Director Christopher Wray says he will resign when President Joe Biden leaves office in January. He told bureau workers at a town hall on Wednesday. Wray’s decision means he will be leaving what’s usually a ten year term early. Trump appointed him back in 2017 after he fired the previous director, James Comey. But Wray’s early departure also isn’t a surprise. Trump made it pretty clear he wanted someone else to head the FBI in his second term. After he nominated loyalist Kash Patel for the job last week. Trump also complained about Wray during his interview Sunday on Meet the Press. 

[clip of President elect Donald Trump] I can’t say I’m thrilled with him. He invaded my home. I’m suing the country over it. He invaded Mar-a-Lago. Um. I’m very unhappy with the things he has done. 

Jane Coaston: Never mind that Trump brought this on himself when he didn’t turn over thousands of federal documents. While Wray’s departure clears the way for Patel to take over, the FBI, he’ll still need to be confirmed by the Senate. And given his penchant for conspiracy theories, election denialism, his vows to seek retribution against Trump’s enemies and his weird children’s books, it’s still an open question whether enough Senate Republicans will get in line and vote for him. Albertsons, the parent company of grocery store chains like Safeway and Vons in the U.S., called off its merger with fellow grocery store operator Kroger on Wednesday. That’s after a federal judge blocked the deal. The merger, valued at $25 billion, was proposed two years ago. It would have been the largest grocery store merger in U.S. history and put control of nearly every major supermarket in the hands of one company. But earlier this year, the Federal Trade Commission filed a lawsuit to block it, arguing that the deal would raise prices for customers. And a federal court ruled in favor of the government on Tuesday. Instead of fighting to save the merger, Albertsons backed out and sued Kroger on Wednesday. Albertsons blamed Kroger for the deal’s failure. Kroger responded by saying it was actually Albertsons fault. There’s lots of beef here and sadly, not the tasty kind. A federal judge in Texas put a stop to the sale of conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’s Infowars to The Onion at auction on Wednesday. The sale was a result of Jones’s bankruptcy after a defamation lawsuit brought by the families of Sandy Hook victims. Jones responded in his signature levelheaded, very normal, totally understated style. 

[clip of Alex Jones] It’s our choice to be slaves or be free humans. It’s our choice to join Team Satan or join Team Humanity. It is Wednesday, December 11th, 2024. And we are still in the Infowars studios, surviving. 

Jane Coaston: Tell me more about Team Satan. Anyway, the judge said the auction process didn’t result in the Sandy Hook families getting enough money. Both The Onion and the victims families have expressed disappointment with the decision. A court appointed trustee will decide what happens next. And that’s the news. [music break] One more thing. The House voted to pass a nearly $900 billion national defense spending bill on Wednesday. This is one of the big things on lawmakers to do list before the new Congress is sworn in next month. It was a bipartisan vote. It usually is every year since both chambers need to approve this thing on a tight deadline. But this year, more than 100 Democrats voted against the measure because it includes a bunch of bullshit. For starters, there’s a ban on gender affirming care for trans kids in military families. The bill specifically bans military health care insurance from covering treatments like hormone replacement therapy and puberty blockers if the treatment could result in sterilization. Of course, cis kids in military families would be able to access the same care if they needed it. Because, as a wise man once said, cruelty is the point. Democratic Representative Adam Smith, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, spoke out against the provision this week. In a statement, he said that he would not support the bill because it puts the lives of trans kids at risk and forces their parents to choose between their service and their children. The bill also bans the military from teaching critical race theory because when a third of the military comes from a nonwhite background. It’s important that you absolutely don’t discuss how race functions in our politics and culture. Remind me again, why did the armed services need to be desegregated in 1948? Hmm. Now, you’re probably wondering, how did culture war nonsense get thrown into our budget for national defense? Why are elected officials asking other elected officials to decide between pay raises and new equipment for our soldiers and support for kids and their families? So am I. So to break down what’s actually happening in this bill, I called up Conner O’Brien. He’s a senior defense correspondent for Politico. Conner, welcome to What A Day. 

Conner O’Brien: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: So before we get to the transphobia of it all, tell me what’s in this bill that actually relates to national defense with regard to our military and foreign policy?

Conner O’Brien: Well we’re talking about, the National Defense Authorization Act, is a pretty sprawling bill, pretty all encompassing. It has passed each year for over 60 years. It doesn’t actually like spend money, that needs to be done separately in an actual spending bill. But it kind of gives you the broad outlines of the Pentagon budget. So it does um a number of things like prescribes the number of ships the Navy should put on contract, the number of aircraft that the Air Force can buy or what systems the Pentagon can retire. It lays out the military pay raise each year. This year was a lot of provisions for military quality of life, which um includes an expansion of pay and benefits. There’s a 4.5% military pay raise for the entire force. But then for the junior enlisted members, um there’s a 14.5% pay raise. And that’s that’s been the focus of a lot of the work. 

Jane Coaston: It’s interesting because it sounds like there’s like real issues and real stuff getting hashed out in this bill. But there’s also like bullshit messaging. And when it comes to the gender affirming care ban. Can you tell me what trans kids have to do with national defense? How did Republicans sneak this in there in the first place and what is their argument for why this is necessary for national defense or ever? 

Conner O’Brien: That’s the interesting part of this. This was really a push by Mike Johnson. There’s not unanimity among Republicans about should this be in the defense bill, despite maybe a lot of Republicans agreeing on the actual policy. The House Armed Services Chairman Mike Rogers, who is a very conservative guy, basically said this didn’t come from us. The way this works is you know if there is something they believe could be a red line or a poison pill, it usually gets dropped because Democrats and Republicans want to get a bill done. They don’t want to be the first year that there isn’t a bill. Speaker Mike Johnson uh was really the driver behind this. He had a statement um talking up that and then a couple other uh provisions that were in there, like critical race theory. 

Jane Coaston: Right. 

Conner O’Brien: A couple of things on diversity, equity, and inclusion and saying basically the military is distracted by by these things. That’s been the argument against a lot–

Jane Coaston: Yeah. 

Conner O’Brien: –of these. 

Jane Coaston: I mean, it also sounds a little bit to me and please push back if I’m wrong, that it’s like if Democrats are like, we don’t want to vote for this, then Mike Johnson’s going to be like, so you hate our troops? 

Conner O’Brien: I think there are two aspects to this. Mike Johnson is doing a lot of things to keep conservatives happy because he does have a speaker election he needs to win in early January. He’s really trying to lock down the right flank, more so than trying to put Democrats in a in a tough spot. He’s also not going to cut a deal, it looks like, with Democrats to finish up spending for the year, instead going to punt it into next year when Donald Trump is president, when they have the majority in the Senate and can maybe get a better deal for conservatives. The argument from Republicans as to why this wasn’t needed is Donald Trump’s going to be president in you know six weeks and he can undo a lot of these. So I think I think perhaps a bigger issue is going to be, does he reinstate the the previous policy that he had in his administration, which was effectively a ban on transgender service. 

Jane Coaston: You mentioned the other provisions that ban the military from teaching critical race theory and DEI, I feel like to me, it seems like this is a thing that happens a lot. But I’m curious, is it typical for lawmakers to use the annual defense spending bill to, like, do culture war nonsense? 

Conner O’Brien: It is interesting to me that in the last couple of years, Republicans have really leaned into many of these culture war fights when they’ve brought a defense bill to the floor. Usually stuff kind of comes out um in the negotiations between the House and the Senate. They had language on abortion that did not make it through. They had broader language on transgender troops that didn’t didn’t make it through. But to me, this was pretty notable that it survived the process and really that it was insisted on by House leadership. This is not something they typically do. Um. So I think we’ll have to see what the implications are for kind of this process. Does this get built upon? Does this become a regular thing? I think we’re going to have to see how do senators handle this. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah, I was just about to ask. They’re expected to vote on the defense bill next week and proposed amendments. Could they block the bill altogether? 

Conner O’Brien: I mean, nothing’s impossible. Interestingly enough, this provision originated in the Senate despite it being a Democratic led Senate. In the Armed Services Committee, I was kind of surprised to see this, actually. But multiple provisions on um transgender and medical care were were included when they marked up their bill behind closed doors. It remains to be seen. I think maybe you could see it sway some people. But um I would assume we’re going to see a fairly bipartisan vote on it. 

Jane Coaston: Conner, this has been super informative. Thanks so much for joining us. 

Conner O’Brien: Thanks for having me. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Politico’s senior defense correspondent Conner O’Brien. The Senate will vote on the spending bill next week and it’s expected to pass. 

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a review. Make fun of the Ohio Republican who wants to make it illegal for opposing teams like the Michigan Wolverines to plant flags in the center of Ohio State Stadium after they win. And tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading and not just about how Ohio State had many opportunities to stop Michigan from planting a flag in their stadium by winning the game, but they didn’t like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston. And maybe just get better at football Ohio State. Then we won’t plant flags. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. 

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