HBO's The Last of Us Ep. 4 | Crooked Media
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February 08, 2023
X-Ray Vision
HBO's The Last of Us Ep. 4

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight take a road trip! First in Previously On (1:12) Jason and Rosie continue their discussion of the new DCU slate, focusing on how the announcements from James Gunn led to a ton of DC comics rapidly selling out. In the Airlock (7:36), they dive deep (deeep) into episode 4 of HBO’s The Last of Us, recapping and discussing Joel’s ethics, Ellie’s gun, and more. Then in Nerd Out (53:06) they read and discuss a listener theory on how Deadpool may make it into the MCU.


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Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it? If you’re sending a theory, feel free to send only a summary of your theory (no audio needed) for Jason and Rosie to react to on air.


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Jason Concepcion [AD]


Jason Concepcion Warning This podcast contains spoilers for the Last of US Episode four.  Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion.


Rosie Knight And I’m Rosie Knight.


Jason Concepcion And welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked Media podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.


Rosie Knight In this episode on Previously On, we’re going to be talking about the buzz from the DC Slate announcement.


Jason Concepcion The buzz.


Rosie Knight The buzz.


Jason Concepcion And how much buzz, baby.


Rosie Knight How it may have been affecting some comic book sales in a potentially positive way. In the airlock we are going to be talking about episode four of The Last of US on HBO Max, which sees a favor of Oz enter the fray. And in that we have a theory about Deadpool entering the MCU, which, you know, we’re excited about because we love theories.


Jason Concepcion And of course, if you want to jump around, check the show notes for timestamps coming up. Previously On. First Up, DC more DC news reaction to the DC news of last week when James Gunn and Peter Safran unveiled their much awaited DC slate. And folks, it’s a hit.


Rosie Knight People loving it.


Jason Concepcion Buzz is very positive. I mean, like, you know, we were very excited by it. Every DC comic fan, every comic fan I know was super, super excited about it. I know about a friend of mine who is a TV writer was like, I’m trying, talking to my agents, trying to get that booster gold.


Rosie Knight You know it. I’m saying, like, I know that they are, this is not the only stuff that they’re trying to adapt. Like James said, this is the chart stuff. So I’m like, It’s time to be going to DC. I will a pitch. I don’t know. Yeah, I got a little plan for a certain little comic, you know, I think a lot of people do. So I think it’s an exciting time. Yeah. And one of the big news bumps was kind of this like. James Gunn did something that a lot of people in this industry do not do. James Gunn directly shouted out the comics that would be influencing these movies. And that tweet went off and everyone was like, More people need to do this. Marvel You need to do that. And and he specified, you know, as we said, it was Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison. Frank Quitely, we had that Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow.


Jason Concepcion All Star Superman


Rosie Knight All Star Superman Batman. We were right, by the way. We were. We were right. And like, basically what happened was a lot of people decided they wanted to buy these books. Now, I know from anecdotal evidence this is true. My comic shop, Pulp Fiction in Long Beach, they had a lot of people coming in to buy those books. And then James Gunn did a tweet where he basically. Kind of reported, shared some reporting about how some of these books were selling out on Amazon. Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow was one of them. Now, look, the comic book selling industry is very messy.


Jason Concepcion It’s inefficient and inefficient. It’s always been inefficient.


Rosie Knight If you remember, we were talking about it when Hawkeye was coming out. Hawkeye, the collection by Matt Fraction and David Aja,  had actually been out of print for a long time and they didn’t get it back in stores when Invincible came out.


Jason Concepcion There’s only like two printing houses. I’m going to get this wrong, but there’s very few printers that actually do this. Work, so there’s a huge bottleneck.


Rosie Knight Very few distributors. So so when they say, Oh, you know, Supergirl, Woman of Tomorrow has sold out on Amazon, that means they don’t have that many any left in their warehouse that they’re stocking from. But you can go to your comic shop and try and buy them. But this is great news because it’s always good to see comics selling and this is the impact that it can have to actually say, this is the comic we’re basing it on. If you think about Marvel, it is very rare to hear them say that even when something like Captain America, when Soldier was directly based on a comic, yeah, they were not out there promoting that. So this is very cool. I love to see comics selling. I think it’s very buzzy and kind of like an interesting technique, But if it basically bullies marvel into shouting out comics creators and comics, I’ll be happy. I’m like, James Gunn, you’re doing good work.


Jason Concepcion I wonder if that will happen more now. You know, they do kind of obliquely gesture and look at the arcs and the creators, both with thanks in the movies and kind of like.


Rosie Knight And like tightly closed off.


Jason Concepcion Who they invite to to the premiere and stuff. But this is yeah this is the most overt kind of like here are the comics. This is coming from kind of statement we’ve seen in this space. But I will say also that it’s really cool that that we’re seeing the comics sell out. I think whether or not that’s accurate, the buzz around it.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion It’s a great it’s a great look. And secondarily, like James Gunn directly shouting at the comics, I also think is on the one hand he should do it. And it’s the thing to do from a more cynical point of view. It’s also the way that James necessarily gestures to the, you know, the DC fan base that’s been there, have been active been helping for this kind of statement for years as a way of saying, hey, we know what we’re doing. We know where this stuff comes from.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion I’ve read this stuff. I know about it. I’m deeply versed in it, you know? How many times have we heard James in that statement and other times say like, Oh, DC means a lot to me. You know, I’ve been in that universe since I was a kid. And so this is more of that. And.


Rosie Knight You know, it’s very clever, good.


Jason Concepcion The rising tide of interest hopefully will lift all boats.


Rosie Knight I totally agree also. And I mean, you can even see, I think the thing that’s going to appeal to Marvel Disney other places about this is like whatever the reality of selling out, which is such an exciting kind of terminology, is the Amazon top comics bestseller list is reflecting people’s interest in these books. And everybody loves to make money, whose a corporation. I will say James Gunn, this is so cool. I’m so glad you’re doing it. Like everyone, I would, my, the next step of this is like, make sure you’re just shouting out those artists. The comics don’t exist without the eyes. Bilquis Everly also made Woman of Tomorrow. You know, Frank Quitely made All-Star, Superman, Batman and Robin. Like, that’s the one thing is I think we’re still stuck in that idea of like Tom King’s Woman of Tomorrow or Grant Morrison’s, you know, All-Star Superman. But we need let’s do I’m not expecting a full creative credit. You don’t have to shout out that as much as I would love that. But let’s just let’s just get to the point where when we share those comics, we’re shouting out the artists, too, because this medium doesn’t exist without them. But yeah.


Jason Concepcion That’s right.


Rosie Knight I love to see it. Also, I was very happy because after the Swamp Thing announcement where they were like it’s going to be a dark horror story directed by James Mangold, we can now pretty finally say he’s in talks about it. They then shared the Alamo Swamp Thing first volume and said this is what it’s based on, which is like a sexy, weird, like romance book. So I’m okay. I’m happy about it. I’m happy about it. It’s going to be great.


Jason Concepcion Up next, the airlock.




Jason Concepcion Well, we’re stepping out of the airlock and into a piece of shit Chevy pickup truck.


Rosie Knight That feels like a spaceship.


Jason Concepcion This feels, feels like a spaceship. As we rode Trip West into episode four of HBO’s The Last of US. This episode titled Please Hold to My Hand, written by Craig Mazin, directed by Jeremy Webb. And we open with Ellie pointing a gun into a mirror at herself and basically doing chat to. Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? She’s got her gun. She’s making a pew pew sound. She pops the mag, checks the rounds. She is so excited to have her weapon.


Rosie Knight Let’s say congratulations to Ellie. She is a. She. She manifested this. She wanted a gun. She asked for a gun. She found a gun. She made it happen. And guess what? She was actually right. She does need a gun. And we’re going to find out why. Very soon.


Jason Concepcion Ellie got a gun. She’s practicing with the gun, making little pew pew sounds. She pops the mag and checks the rounds, and then she returns to Joel. They are at a rest stop. Joel is siphoning fuel, and he’s telling Ellie both why they need to do this so often. Because gas, as I have been railing about in the Discord, gas breaks down over time. Like if you just leave it in the tank, it’ll break down over time, get less effective. And so Joel is having to do this a lot, and then he’s explaining the physics behind how siphoning works. And Ellie is roasting him because clearly he doesn’t actually know how it works. And then things take a turn for really the dangerous, the tragic. Ellie pulls out a book of puns.


Rosie Knight Dun, dun, dun.


Jason Concepcion That’s right folks. It’s time for jokes. She says. What did the mermaid wear to her math class? An algae bra. And Joel is like, Fuck this shit.


Rosie Knight Yes, he’s done.


Jason Concepcion He’s absolutely fed up with it. They continue on the road in this part of what is officially the Midwest is just littered with vehicles. Ellie is like, Oh, I want to see a tank. I hope I see a tank congeals like you will. There’ll be a tank out here because the military was all around and very active in those days. And you will definitely see a tank. Ellie shows Joel a bunch of stuff that she scavenged from Bill and Frank’s in that all too short a time that they spent.


Rosie Knight Far too short. Big mistake. They’re going to regret it.


Jason Concepcion First one, Hank Williams cassette. Okay.


Rosie Knight Joel’s kind of into it. She shades him a bit. She’s like, you’re old, do you like this? And he’s like, No, that’s before my time. But actually it’s a banger. So put it on.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, put it on. And then next up, a Bareskin magazine.


Rosie Knight Dun, dun, dun


Jason Concepcion A little porno mag action. And this makes Joel tremendously uncomfortable, which Ellie loves. And then Ellie says, gosh, in a in a by the way, in exchange direct ripped from the the video game as much of this episode actually was she says well why are the pages stuck together? And Joel is like, Oh.


Rosie Knight And she’s like, Now I’m fucking with you.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, I’m fucking with you. And then she throws it out the window, Which I have to say, this is a mistake laden episode.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion Our characters make a ton of mistakes this episode, and I would argue, and I’m dead serious. I think this is one of them. I’m not, like that has value to somebody.


Rosie Knight Dude, I’m saying, in a bartering, trading world, how much gay porn is there left in this world? I don’t know, but frankly.


Jason Concepcion Not a lot.


Rosie Knight Not a lot. And this is a physical magazine also. Base level. Base level. You could use it for fuel. You could burn it. Do you know what I mean?


Jason Concepcion Good point.


Rosie Knight Like, they are not survivalists. They’re is getting a bit comfortable.


Jason Concepcion Yeah


Rosie Knight As we will see multiple times in this episode.


Jason Concepcion Taking a lighter. The two lighters or something, You know what I’m saying?


Rosie Knight Like, there’s probably someone who will give you like one ration card or just even just like some information or just like making a friend, you know, like a and Joe’s not really a friend guy. So an alliance, it seems silly. Also, I will say I was very happy to see Ellie’s bad jokes making it into the show because that’s again, like another key where this episode is just like straight from the game. But yeah, as soon as she threw it out the window, I was like, bro.


Jason Concepcion Hey, don’t do that.


Rosie Knight Don’t do that. Like, What are you thinking?


Jason Concepcion Yeah, they drive on, and at dusk, Joel pulls off the road. They make camp at a clearing in some woods. And for dinner, 20 year old Chef Boyardee. That guy is good, Ellie says.


Rosie Knight I’m going to say, just. Just want to say scientific. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve seen people open 20 year old kinds of stuff. It doesn’t go that well, but I like the intention. And you know what? I like that her and Joel agree on this. Chef Boyardee is good.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Did they have that in England?


Rosie Knight They don’t.


Jason Concepcion Did the chef make it over there?


Rosie Knight They don’t have. He never made it there with his Michelin starred canned restaurant. He was like, he was like, it’s too far. But they do have they have like, very, very similar. Hines actually makes, like, very similar situations in England.


Jason Concepcion Okay. So, Joel, they’re making camp. They’re eating and and talking about the trip ahead. Joel figures, okay, if we get out of here by first flight, we should make Wyoming by the day after, which is a good time. Ellie asks if they can light a fire, she’s cold. Joel says no. And not because, as you might expect, because there are zombies out here. That’s the infected her. I guess this is too sparsely populated an area for there to be a pressing danger of infected, which I would still be like, fuck that. No.


Rosie Knight Yeah, like, eh.


Jason Concepcion But because of people, people might see the light, People might see what’s going on. I would, as people in our Discord were saying, Why wouldn’t you sleep in the bed of the truck? I would sleep under the truck like.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I don’t like tell me I like that.


Jason Concepcion I don’t care. You tell me that there’s no infected out here. I’m still like.


Rosie Knight I’m sleeping, like under the chair in the front, under some tarps, like I’m hiding.


Jason Concepcion 100%.


Rosie Knight Joel’s very comfortable guy. He’s very chill. Too comfortable


Jason Concepcion He’s way. We will get to Joel being way, way too comfortable. Very soon. They lay down to sleep, and then Ellie has a very, very serious question for Joel. She says Joel. She turns on her light. First of all, Joel. Why did the Scarecrow get an award? And Joel, after a beat, says because he was outstanding in his field. You dick. Did you read this? And we get the first real smile crack of a smile.


Rosie Knight It’s like it’s a little it’s a little edge.


Jason Concepcion I let, you love to see it. I was just laughing about, okay, we’re not going to build a fire because what if people see wood? Like, how bad would it be to get killed by Raiders because they saw you light your flashlight to read a book of puns?


Rosie Knight I know, I know. Seriously, I get it. Like the thing I love about and we’re obviously, like, ragging. The show’s amazing. The episode’s amazing.


Jason Concepcion We love it


Rosie Knight The point is like the point of the whole story, as we saw the last episode, is we kind of get to see stories about finding joy and those moments being worth that risk. But in the moment when you’re watching it, you’re like, Guys, don’t get your head chopped off by a guy with a machete to read a joke. Like, Please.


Jason Concepcion It is very good that they feel less fear. Because they live in this world. They are, you know, Ellie was born in this world.


Rosie Knight Ellie. Exactly.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, She’s just, you know, as a kid would, doesn’t necessarily feel the danger around her, but it’s like if you airdrop me into this into 2023 of, of, you know, plus 20 years of an outbreak of, of fungal zombies. I would be a mess. All the time.


Rosie Knight If I survived, I would be stressed. I would be the most that I’d be more of a Bill, pre pre meeting Frank. Like I would be like locked in my house. But you know what I do love I think something about this episode is after the power of episode three, this could maybe feel a bit like a lead in episode or kind of an intro episode. But actually I do think there is so much small, nuanced time that we get to spend with Joel and Ellie here that you’re really getting to see that bonding and the kind of part of the comfortable, the too comfortable situation they’re in is because they’re getting comfortable around each other and they’re starting to feel like there’s someone.


Jason Concepcion You love to love to see.


Rosie Knight Yeah, you love to see it. It’s going to end badly currently, but I love it. I do love to see it.


Jason Concepcion The next morning, Ellie sees coffee for the first time. She is confounded by it. It stinks. Joel is like just slurping it up in the car, making fun of her for thinking it’s gross. To which I was saying this in The Discord. You know, they’re just rippin ass in that car. Oh, yeah, right. Like, there’s no modesty.


Rosie Knight No, it’s not like, you know.


Jason Concepcion You’re not hiding it.


Rosie Knight Not in this world.


Jason Concepcion Just ate a can of 20 year old Chef Boyardee and chased it with 20 year old coffee. Absolutely. There are big time farts being ripped in that car.


Rosie Knight It’s happening, and it’s. And they’re just, like, going with it. But the truth is that you’re probably going to see someone turn into, like, an evil fungal monster at some point. So it’s like if you just be farting like, Oh, well.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Ellie’s like so tell me, where are you going again? And Joel is like, So we’re going to, to my brother Tommy. The last time I heard from him. *fart noises* Excuse me. So last time I heard from Tommy. He was close to Cody, Wyoming. And Ellie’s like, Yeah, let me just check the map. Yeah, that’s way up there. So that’s very, very far out. And then Joel opening up now because of call, it was not that long ago that Joel was like, hard rule. Don’t ask me about my history. And I want to ask you now, all of a sudden, Joel is telling Ellie about Tommy. He says, Tommy is what you call a joiner, dreamed of becoming a hero. So he joined the Army right out of high school. Few months later, they shipped off to Desert Storm. 12 years later, outbreak happens, and he convinces me to join a group making their way up to Boston. And Joel basically says he did to keep an eye on Tommy, keep him out of trouble. And that’s where he met test some point after Tommy fell in with Marlene in the fireflies. And Joel says of that same mistake he made when he was 18, He wants to save the world. And last Joel heard, Tommy had quit the fireflies and now he’s, I guess, floating around on his own somewhere out in Wyoming doing who knows what? Ellie asks Joel. A very important question, which is how does he keep going without any hope that the world can be better? Like, how do you just do that? And Joel says, basically, you don’t understand what what you haven’t seen the things you haven’t been out here. I’ve been out here. I understand what the world is like. You see this hopeless existence that I’m living. I’m living a realistic existence. You don’t understand that. And then he tells her, you keep going for family. That’s about it. Ellie is like, Oh, like me. And he’s like, No, not like you. I made a promise to Tess.


Rosie Knight Yeah he’s like.


Jason Concepcion That’s who I’m doing this for.


Rosie Knight You are cargo.


Jason Concepcion Your cargo flat out.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Which also.


Jason Concepcion I’m with the puns.


Rosie Knight I think you. I think you actually make a really good point. I actually think this is more of, like, a defense mechanism, because, like you said, Joel had said, Oh, don’t talk to me about my family. Don’t talk to me about this. And then suddenly he’s like, opening up. He’s talking about this person that he also doesn’t even really talk to Tess about, like Joel, like Tommy is like, off limits because of that argument and that beef about the fireflies. But then he’s just telling this girl. So it’s that moment when she’s like, So am I family? And he’s got to be like, No, no, you’re cargo. You don’t mean anything because. Yeah, it’s such.


Jason Concepcion He has  to do that.


Rosie Knight An iconic moment and it’s like you’re just cargo is like sure, bro.


Jason Concepcion Not to mention. Not to mention the you know, there’s going to be more moments that that call to mind Sarah. And particularly their last night but like here’s Joel in the truck with a teenage girl in the apocalypse.


Rosie Knight And Tommy’s still in the conversation. So it’s al most like the.


Jason Concepcion Still in the conversation, you know, like it’s happening again.


Rosie Knight Actually, that’s such a good point, because also, when Sarah and Joel first escape out of the car, all Sarah’s doing is asking about Tommy. Where’s Tommy? How do we get back down to Uncle Tommy? We can’t leave him behind. So even that conversation coming from a different place with Ellie, who just wants to have more context, she’s also still asking, Where’s Tommy? Like, it’s just. That’s such a great point.


Jason Concepcion So Ellie nods off, and then he says about Tommy, you know, Ellie asks, How can you be sure you can find him? And Joel says, I think the one most important thing about him as a character, I’m persistent. Joel.


Rosie Knight Mm hmm.


Jason Concepcion As we are going to see in this episode very shortly, when Joel gets an idea in his head. You can’t get it out. You’re not going to get it out of his head. He’s not going to change his mind


Rosie Knight For better or for worse.


Jason Concepcion For better, often for worse and hopefully for better. Ellie nods off when she wakes up. The truck is on a highway entrance to Kansas City, and the way through is, as one would expect, blocked. And it’s and it looks very suspiciously blocked.


Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it’s like purposefully blocked.


Jason Concepcion It’s purposefully blocked.


Rosie Knight And if you’re a game guy here and you’re like, oh, this has been very close to the game, now we’re diverging. You can basically just. Kansas City is standing in it for Pittsburgh. We don’t know why the the exact choice but this was the this is basically the chapter in the game that was Pittsburgh and you will recognize that as soon as you see the blocked street.


Jason Concepcion That’s exactly right. So they’re stopped at this roadblock. Joe gets out to briefly kind of examine it, comes back. Ali’s got the map. They look and they’re trying to figure out, okay, like how far back do we have to go before we can get around this? And then the answer must be too far. And Joel, thinking about, you know, much like Bill, thinking about resource management, how many times can siphon gas, how many times they going to siphon gas here? Do I want to do that? And he decides, no, Instead, I’m going to Leeroy Jenkins, this fucking roadblock, and we’re just going to cut through the city and find a way through. That’s it. We’ll be back on the road in a minute, tops, he says.


Rosie Knight It’s not Escape from New York, bro. This is a bad idea. Like, just like you just go back.


Jason Concepcion Horror movie 101. Don’t do this. And he literally does it. .


Rosie Knight They literally just came from my area where it was so uninfected and so like, just no one there that they could sleep outside. Like, just go back and find a different way around. Do not go through the City. Especially, this is especially dumb because as Joel is about to reveal, he has also been on the other side of this.


Jason Concepcion He’s done ambushes before. So what happens? They get an ambush, almost like.


Rosie Knight Shocking.


Jason Concepcion They’re driving past what what turns out to be the abandoned QZ. Something has happened to the QZ where it’s the doors are flung open.


Rosie Knight It’s just gone.


Jason Concepcion They’ve been, FEDRA has been either overrun or overthrown. And as soon as they see that they see a guy down the road who appears is, appears to be injured and he’s calling for help. Joel immediately sniffs out that this is an ambush. He floors it, but next thing you know, a cinderblock is crashing through the windshield. Next thing you know, the truck is running over a board studded with nails. Next thing you know, the truck is getting shot at.


Rosie Knight Joel really flunked this one. It was just a bad idea.d he should have reversed as soon as he saw the guy.


Jason Concepcion And next thing you know, the truck is crashing into a garage. Now.


Rosie Knight Bill’s nice tuck after all this time.


Jason Concepcion I’ll point out a couple of things. One, the batting average of riding in a truck with Joel is bad.


Rosie Knight Odds are against you. Odds are not in your favor.


Jason Concepcion Number two. I will point out that immediately, Joel is like, are you hurt? Are you okay?


Rosie Knight Yes


Jason Concepcion Because why? Because.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Here it is. It’s happening again. He’s riding in a truck, running from danger.


Rosie Knight And his stubborness.


Jason Concepcion With a teenage girl. And immediately the.


Rosie Knight Causes the problem again, because.


Jason Concepcion His stubbornness caused it.


Rosie Knight Because with Joel and Tommy is this. It’s this same thing. When then opening night with Sarah is like he’s convinced they have to just keep going through. They have to keep going through. And he makes that same mistake here again. He could have reversed. They could have gone a different way around. They could have gone a different route. America is a big country.


Jason Concepcion He knows that he fucked up


Rosie Knight He knows he fucked up. And here again is a teenage girl who’s in his care who suddenly has to deal with. It’s not just a car crash. This time it’s an ambush. These are not infected. It’s like we’re getting to that play. This is that important, pivotal episode that we’ve kind of been hinting towards and talking about in all zombie lore. And yes, the infected are not undead. They the quadriceps cannot bring the dead back to life. But zombie is a catch all you know, it’s the ghouls. It’s the it’s the cordycepts infected. But you know, they are not the real threat. The real threat is the people. That’s always the way all of these stories, whether it’s the road, whether it’s, you know, Night of the Living Dead, the real threat is humans and the brutality that they will enact to protect themselves. Or, you know, think about the Walking Dead. You got cannibals, you got all kinds of different spaces and people who will do whatever they need to do to survive. And Joel just realizes he’s put Ellie into that very situation that he’s allegedly been trying to kind of avoid and protect her from.


Jason Concepcion And so here is Joel. It’s his mistake and he knows it. He may have just consigned a girl in his care to death, just as happened just as happened years ago. He’s freaking out about it. Are you okay? He immediately this gunfight is going on. He immediately sends her to safety through like a hole in the wall to, like, hang out on the other side of the wall. He takes out two of the attackers with his gun. Loses sight of a third who sneaks up behind him, gets the drop on him. And now it’s one of those famous smash square button fights where Joel is trying to hold off this guy that’s on top of him.


Rosie Knight And the guy is like choking him with a gun.


Jason Concepcion Ellie is watching this happen and she realizes, oh, I have a gun. She gets her gun out of the knapsack, walks up, shoots the guy in the back, and it’s now it is this really, I thought, affecting moment where it reminded me of the kind of the death at the end of Saving Private Ryan, where like I forget the name of the character who’s just like, as the Nazi is about to plunge the knife into his chest is like, Oh, no, no, no, no. Like, time out, time out, You know, like, now this this guy who is very young, a young man.


Rosie Knight Yeah. You realize he’s basically a kid.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. It’s like, Oh, no, no, we’re not fighting anymore.


Rosie Knight We’re friends. We’re friends. I didn’t understand that. We didn’t need to do this. Take my knife. This is a good knife.


Jason Concepcion My mom is close by. You could take me to her, begging for his life, pleading for his life in a way that honestly felt like. This is what I would do. I would beg for my fucking life.


Rosie Knight And it’s so sad because it shows that the way the disassociated nature of what people are having to do in this world. He was ready to kill Joel and Ellie like a little kid. He was just ready to do it. But the moment that he realized that he was on the other side of it, he suddenly has this human realization of, Oh, my God, I don’t want to die.


Jason Concepcion It was a wise I think it was so affecting and I think important to do because this is a story based on a game in which in the course of carrying out the story, you, as Joel, will likely kill 300 or 400 people.


Rosie Knight At least.


Jason Concepcion Like some large amount of people. And so here is a really important moment where that taking of a life is brought home. The importance. The impact of it and, you know, was brought into the story.


Rosie Knight That’s such a great point because I think something that’s always dangerous and I’m someone who I love action movies, like I love John Wick, you know, a gun fu movie where you’re constantly seeing people being shot. But something about gaming and like first person shooter games and games where you can’t always killing people, you can lose the impact of death. And instead here, instead of showing Tess and Joel killing hundreds of people, blah, blah, blah. Here, what you see instead is this incredibly intimate reality of what it’s like to take a life. And it is such a responsible, heartbreaking interest.


Jason Concepcion I’m glad they did it this way.


Rosie Knight Me too instead of him just like sniping someone out of a window, which you do in the game, you know, those kind of things like the or shooting someone from afar with a gun. There’s so much emotion here. And then there’s this really like, scary, sad, kind of horrible, dread inducing moment where Joel tells Ellie, Go back, go back through the hole in the wall.


Jason Concepcion Go around the wall.


Rosie Knight And the guy is begging Ellie, like, don’t go because he’s not going to do it. If you’re here. And Ellie just turns around and walks away and the guy starts and you realize that Joel’s going to kill him.


Jason Concepcion So Joel finishes the man off with his knife, and and Joel and Ellie come back together. They now have to hide. They have to run from that. The reinforcements that they know are coming. And this is incredible acting by Bella, because here Ellie is she just killed somebody. I know she didn’t finish them off, but she, for all intents and purposes, just killed a guy and watched him beg for his life. And she is trying to play it off like she’s fine. So, yeah, I packed my gun up and let’s. We should. I saw a tall building over there. We should probably get into vantage point. I’m good, by the way. I’m fine. Don’t worry about me.


Rosie Knight And this is where Joel, his his paternal instinct start coming out, because to him, this is some news. This is something Sarah never had to do. And for some reason in Joel’s, like, very blurry moral compass. The idea that a kid has to kill someone is really horrific. And he keeps saying really terrible. Shouldn’t have to do that at your age. Are you okay? And at least like, I’m fine. I’m fine. Let’s just go. Like, I’m fine, you know, and you start to get some of that gameplay where you’re hiding through the streets, kind of trying to you got to stealth your way through avoiding these. You know, they don’t name them this, but we we know from the game that this is some kind of representation of the hunters and people who are part of that that Hunter community. I think Neil Druckman actually spoke about this in an interview saying that like this is going to be they’re going to serve a different purpose in the game that direct antagonists without much more expansion. But as we see from this episode and the arrival of one of our favorite actresses who’s about to turn up soon, Melanie Lynskey, this is going to be a more complex and probably play a far bigger part than they did in the game.


Jason Concepcion Agreed. X-ray vision, we’ll be back. And we’re back. Joel and Ellie head off. They’re dodging armed patrols. They’re looking for a hiding spot. And we go elsewhere in the city where we find Kathleen, played by Melanie Lynskey in what used to be a FEDRA facility and surely is not now a FEDRA jail cell. She is interrogating a prisoner who will soon come to find out as a doctor, and she’s reading a list of names, clearly dissidents who are in hiding from her group. And I think the thing that we can kind of pieced together from this and other conversations is Kathleen, whose family was unjustly wronged by FEDRA.  Her brother, apparently beaten to death in these very same interrogation cells. Kathleen sparked, led, whatever, a rebellion against FEDRA, which she now is continuing to lead. And what is happening now is a mop up operation. Where she is is kind of organizing the hunt for FEDRA collaborators so that they can we can only assume, be put to death. Right.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And I and I think as well, there’s this implication here in the game, the hunters, anyone who crosses their path, they call them tourists and they just kill them. And I think there is this implication where even if you, maybe weren’t connected to FEDRA, if you show up and you came from another QZ, you’re a FEDRA collaborator. Like, there is no question here. This is just an assumption they make and they will kill you.


Jason Concepcion So Kathleen is is saying it tells this doctor, Hey. You know, my my brother was killed in these cells, like, you know, what about that? And the doctors saying you wronged. I’m sorry, but this has to stop. Whatever this rebellion that Kathleen is says fomented. And she says, I think something that, you know, really, honestly is pretty authoritative, if you I disagree with her methods, but I think this is pretty strong. She says this is this has to stop now. You mean when you’re in the cell? And she points out that now that this person who was protected and felt secure, now that he’s put in danger, now that he’s skin and is in the game all of a sudden, oh, no, we got to put a stop to this. But previously, when the regime that he was supporting was doing the very same things that they are now doing, it was had very, very little.


Rosie Knight And we know FEDRA was literally like hanging people in the street. Like they, they were brutal.


Jason Concepcion So the man points out that, well, while I was doing that under duress, I had a gun to my head. So she pulls out a gun and says, okay, what about now? Where are the people I’m looking for? And she seems she is particularly interested in finding a man named Henry Burrell, who apparently put the finger on Kathleen’s brother or perhaps the rest of her family to FEDRA and is now in hiding somewhere in the city. Kathleen knows and she desperately.


Rosie Knight She’s she’s like obsessed with him. And she kind of has this paranoid feeling that he’s kind of planning something. This is his work, whatever. She sees him as this almost like overarching puppet master of anything that has gone wrong in her life.


Jason Concepcion The interrogation is interrupted by the arrival of a patrol that is bringing back the bodies of the ambushers that Joel did away with. In Kathleen’s mind is, as you mentioned, Rosie, this is Henry’s work.


Rosie Knight Yeah, she’s  sure of it.


Jason Concepcion He has a radio. He might have called in reinforcements, and this is them. And then in a rage at this loss of life.


Rosie Knight Yeah, She says


Jason Concepcion She goes back in.


Rosie Knight There’s. There’s a great line where she goes, Can you save him? And they’re like, No. And she’s like, What if I had a doctor? And they’re like, It’s useless.


Jason Concepcion It’s too late.


Rosie Knight And she justs.


Jason Concepcion She goes back in and executes him. This doctor, by the way, who at one point in the interrogation says, I delivered you. This is like the intimate bonds torn apart here. A really notable. And she says then to her gathered militia, she said, This is Henry’s work and he won’t stop until we stop him, find every collaborator and kill them all. And then Kathleen’s people head off into the city and they just kind of like knock down random doors and drag people off, apparently to be killed. Like with proof. I don’t know.


Rosie Knight Doesn’t seem like.


Jason Concepcion It doesn’t seem like it. Joel and Ellie are watching all of this from a hiding spot. And this is exactly what Joel meant when he said people need to watch over This is it. Well, watch this. And Ellie continuing again to pretend like she’s fine is has noticed a tall building a few blocks over. And Joel is like, yeah, I saw it, too. This is where we’re going to go. We’re going to go there so he can get a vantage point and find a path out of the city. And this is the moment where Joel kind of sensing this shield that Ellie has put up around herself, wants to basically take the burden off of her shoulders and put it on his because he understands that he fucked up. He says, you’re just a kid. You shouldn’t know what it means to you know, it’s not like you killed them. And Joel continues, you know, saying, basically, I know how hard it is the first time you kill someone or you hurt them badly. It can be it can be bad. And Joel also is doing this because, you know, he’s apologizing. He’s saying this is my fault. Now, he says it’s his fault because he didn’t hear the guy sneak up on him. Joel, of course, has his hearing has been damaged from years of shooting at people, but he’s out.


Rosie Knight It’s also hilarious because in the game, Joel has like super hearing that.


Jason Concepcion Super hearing


Rosie Knight You can like you can make it through the.Walls like you’re in Spider-Man or Batman or any of those other kind of games. So that’s like a good a good reconsideration of like grounding him in the real world a little bit more.


Jason Concepcion Agreed. Now, I would point out, and I think the character also knows that it’s not his fault because the guy snuck up on him. It’s his fault because he decided to drive through this fucking city.


Rosie Knight And crash the car.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, that was going to obviously be occupied in some form or fashion. Like, why did you fucking do that? So, you know, he’s apologizing, but in a very dad like fashion, this is this actually, like, resonates. If anybody has ever had a parent apologize to them. I don’t know about like your personal experience, but it’s never really they always obliquely do it and never truly come clean on the thing.


Rosie Knight Sorry you felt that way, kind of apology.


Jason Concepcion So here’s Joel not apologizing, but also kind of like not apologizing for the thing that he actually did. And then Ellie says something important, which is that it wasn’t her first time hurting somebody, but she refuses. Now it’s her turn to close the doors and not expound on what that means. Joel then decides, you know what, We didn’t stay at Bill and Frank’s, where I could have taught Ellie how to shoot in safety. But you know what? Fuck it. I’m going to do it now. He takes. He has Ellie take a gun out. He shows her how to hold it. He. Now, Honestly, that’s about it. He just shows her how he’s just glad. Puts the mag back in and he hands it to her. We go back to Kathleen, where Kathleen’s lieutenant, who I’m calling, saw Old Gray Man Skyrim. He looks exactly.


Rosie Knight Like he really does.


Jason Concepcion He looks exactly like the blacksmith of of White Run. He has some intel on Henry. Apparently, they found the the recent hiding place of Henry, and he leads Kathleen there. It’s a attic somewhere in a building. Somewhere. There’s cans of food there. And notably child’s drawings of, like, Superman.


Rosie Knight Saving some. Yeah. This is like a huge moment because I think they do a really interesting job. Kathleen is created for the show, and I think they do a really interesting job of like, she’s incredibly brutal and she kills someone in a fit of rage. But there’s some kind of notion here of a revolution, of a community that she’s protecting. It’s more so far, it’s been more morally gray than obviously evil. But then when you find out that whoever Henry is and if you if you know, you know who he is, if you’ve played the game. But if you don’t.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight He’s helping protect a kid and that’s the person that she wants to destroy and kill. And it’s a very smart bit of visual storytelling.


Jason Concepcion I agree this resonates, too, because, you know, oftentimes we tell ourselves that we’re doing something because of ideals, in this case Kathleen supporting the revolution and, you know, bringing to justice the collaborators who are trying to try to bring down our more just society after we’ve overthrown FEDRA, yada, yada, yada. But really.


Rosie Knight It’s vengence.


Jason Concepcion Of this that there’s something personal on top of this kind of political, you know, scaffolding that she’s erected. There is something deeply personal about her chasing Henry. Is this kid her child? We don’t know, but it’s clearly personal. They leave there. And then Kathleen’s Lieutenant, Thor Gray  is like, Oh, yeah, there’s something else I have to show you. So they go to like a basement or a garage, and there they see the concrete floor is cracked. And it is it is slowly sagging down. And as it sags down, it’s also like bubbling up, like something is pressing against the floor beneath there. Is it for those who have played the game, is this bootloaders?


Rosie Knight It feels like that’s what they’re hinting at.


Jason Concepcion Some kind of fungal balloon, like a bubble that will pop of fungus, but it feels like we’re going to see bloaders or some kind of infected break into the city. Thor Old Gray Man is like, Should we tell the others? When do we tell them? And Kathleen’s like, Not yet. He’s like, Wait.


Rosie Knight Classic bad leader situation. It’s going to go badly for you, babe.


Jason Concepcion Classic bad leadership. She’s like, Hey, let’s take care of this absolutely insane and meaningless hunt.


Rosie Knight Paranoia that I have.


Jason Concepcion Two fucking people. One is like a guy, in other words, a child. Rather than deal with the obviously pressing issue of what appears to be infected.


Rosie Knight And one of the worst kind of infected.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Anyway, Joel and Ellie make their way to the tall building. We get some wonderful co-op kind of adaptation from the gameplay where Joel is scooting Ellie up into a hole in the wall, a thing you do, a booster thing you do time and time and time again in the games, and they head up. Now, this 40 plus flights of stairs to the top of this building, they’ll go essentially as far as Joel’s 56 year old bones will allow them to go on the way up. Ellie asks Joel, How do you know we’re getting ambush? And Joel makes a very important admission here. He says that he’s been on, quote, both sides of this, meaning he’s ambushed people. He’s he’s he says further that he, Tommy and Tess, the group that they were running with when they were going up to Boston, quote, did what they had to do to survive. To which Ellie asks, Did you ever hurt innocent? You ever kill anybody innocent? And Joel doesn’t answer, which I think clearly means yes. Yes.


Rosie Knight And I actually thought of you.


Jason Concepcion That’s a yes or no question by the way, Joel.


Rosie Knight Literally I thought of you here because I think this is setting something up really interesting. So you talked about how the Bill and Frank relationship is this kind of like it’s like a mirror for Joel of like, what if he let people in and loved them in the way they wanted to be loved and respected their agency? I think this establishes another reflection of Joel, which is probably going to be Kathleen as we get more into the story, and that what if you never learned that you shouldn’t do that? Or what if you never put anything above vengeance or survival? What if you did the most brutal version of it? And I think that is going to be a very important tipping point for Joel to reconsider his any means necessary mindset, which is obviously going to lead to like the the finale of the show.


Jason Concepcion And it’s. I love post-apocalyptic zombie stories, genre stories like this, but there’s always been also like an aversion I have to them. And the thing is this that inherent in this kind of like setup is the idea that, hey, you’re going to have to do what you have to do. Yeah, And there’s something about, listen, if you’re looking for excuses to hurt and kill innocent people, you’re get you’re going to have an endless supply of them. Yeah. In this store, in this kind of world, in this kind of story. And here’s Joel. Joel. Hey, we had to do what we had to do. Survive. That may have been true in the moment. It may not have been true in the morning.


Rosie Knight And also, you probably didn’t have to do it as regularly as you did it. That was probably the times when you really needed to survive. Then there was the times that you wanted a truck or you wanted something other people had, or you killed a family who didn’t have anything or, you know, we know Joel’s the kind of person who would leave a family with a kid at the side of the road if it meant protecting what was his. So we know we can assume from this interaction that he’s done some pretty terrible stuff.


Jason Concepcion And at least. He feels bad. It’s very clear that whatever those things were, they weigh on him. He’s not particularly proud of them. Or else he would have said, Yeah, I did. What do you mean? Yeah, he had to. Joel and Ellie make camp on one of the higher floors here. Joel Then does the the Ethan Hunt trick the Mission Impossible one, where he breaks the. He breaks some glass, and he’s trying.


Rosie Knight He’s a Brian dePalma fan. A Brian dePalma fan.


Jason Concepcion So that if somebody sneaks up on them, you know, the glass will crunch and they will hear something. Why not also barricade the door? Don’t worry about it.


Rosie Knight He’s like, we’re high up.


Jason Concepcion Joel’s slipping. Well, here’s the thing. He is 56.


Rosie Knight He’s tired. Ellie had to, like, bully him up  the stairs.


Jason Concepcion Really did, like called him an old man.


Rosie Knight I also think we’re going to see something really interesting here, which is like, this is Joel without Tess. And I don’t think he’s really realized that she’s not that, you know he knows.


Jason Concepcion She’s not at that level.


Rosie Knight He he used to have this person who would always have his back, who would always be honest. It’s like, blah, blah, blah. He’s she’s that age test is probably setting up some crazy trap test issue in someone if you’re taking asleep. Like there was a level of comfort to the life they had in the quarantine zone. And Joel kind of seems to be a little bit stuck in that, even outside in this totally new city and this totally new place. Why didn’t you barricade the door? Why didn’t you? You know, there’s there’s many things that you could ask about what Joel didn’t do in this situation. But you know what? He’s trying his best. I believe that. I believe he’s trying.


Jason Concepcion No, I think that I think that all of this I pointed out not to criticize Joel, but to say this is like really good character. This is an older this is a guy who’s slippin.


Rosie Knight Exactly.


Jason Concepcion 56 years old. And it’s not like a 56 in a modern first world kind of context. This is a guy who’s been living by his wits, living hand to mouth for 20 fucking very, very hard years.


Rosie Knight Horrible years where he’s done terrible things and lost everybody that he loves.


Jason Concepcion And he’s just doesn’t necessarily have his fastball right now. And I think he knows it. As they’re falling asleep, Joel asks what Ellie meant by not her first time and again Ellie.


Rosie Knight She doesn’t want to talk about it.


Jason Concepcion Willing not willing to expound on that. But Ellie asks, I think, an important question, which is, does it somehow like you get older, you kill more people, does it get easier? And Joel says, Not really. Which is not good.


Rosie Knight Not what you want to hear, especially when you’re like 14. But it’s true.


Jason Concepcion Right. But it’s also a thing I think you want to hear from Joel, because the last thing you want to hear is, Oh, yeah, I fucking I’m just like. Like in the game.


Rosie Knight Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s a great point. You know, we’re just, like, running through people, Ellie. But good for Ellie.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, but. And good for Joel, because at least you know that his heart is still beating somewhere in there. And then. Ellie tells Joel, Hey, I noticed you didn’t. You don’t hear so well. Joel says it’s because of the shooting. All the shooting like you wanted a gun. Now you got one. I’ll tell you. Maybe you want to rely on the knife. Which if the star of the show is anything like the game, Ellie definitely will. Yes. And then Ellie has a really, really important thing to ask Joel, and she says, Joel. You know, diarrhea as hereditary. It runs. It runs in your genes. And we get a really great laugh from Joel. Now, the two of them laughing. It’s a wonderful moment. It made me smile.


Rosie Knight And they and they it starts when he’s like he laughs and then he kind of tries to stop laughing and he’s like, That is so fucking dumb. And then the two of them just lose it. And they’re like, You are losing it. You’re losing it. And they’re just giggling. It’s the first time we’ve seen Joel happy ever in the show, actually. Even pre.


Jason Concepcion Ever.


Rosie Knight Even pre outbreak. But post outbreak, it’s like his first smile It’s proper smile it’s his first laugh. And this is obviously a huge moment for the pair of them.


Jason Concepcion They go to sleep and Joel is awoken by Ellie’s panic voice, Joel. And when he wakes up, he finds two people standing up, man and a child, young boy standing over them, guns pointed in their faces. And we can only assume that this is Henry and saying.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Jason Concepcion The people who Kathleen has been looking for. Dun dun dun.


Rosie Knight Dun dun. Dun. And when the credits confirm it, this is Henry and Sam. And if you are a game player, this is when your heart breaks into. Just after you slightly sewed it back together after episode three.


Jason Concepcion A shorter episode. 45 minutes. I think necessarily so considering like kind of heft that they gave us in episode three, but also an episode that really, I think deals with. I think is again, just reiterate, I think, a really smart and necessary thing which is deal with the violence inherent in the game in a way that makes it feel weighty.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion And real like I think that’s.


Rosie Knight Really true.


Jason Concepcion Taking out that ambusher who is just pathetically begging for their life in a way that he feels like, Wouldn’t you do this? You would do this right if you thought it was all going to be over, right now.


Rosie Knight It takes away.


Jason Concepcion And it just hit so hard.


Rosie Knight And it takes away that kind of like the aspect that anything like this can have that like lone wolf, like your the good guy with the gun, like it takes away that element and adds so much more nuance and and an impact. And also, I think it’s really interesting to have that compared with the quickness and severity that Kathleen kills the doctor with. She walks in, she kills him. It’s done. Compared to that kind of horrific time that we spend, it shows us kind of the sacrifice of taking somebody’s life. Yeah. And also you got that then compare and you balance that with Joel and Ellie bonding over these puns, these kind of quiet moments. Him telling her about Tommy, I think is like a really impactful episode. I reckon as well as probably going to this will probably be a big rewatch episode, I reckon, especially when you talk about the revolution and looking at the seeds of that, because at first it seems like Kathleen is just. Rageful for no reason. And then you start to put together the seeds and you think like, Oh, okay, there’s this some kind of revolution that she’s a part of. Who was helping her, who wasn’t helping her. These Fed drug coconspirators also. Then you want to know why do people want to help Phaedra? Like what version of life is that, like you said, is it? Are they all under duress? And then to introduce these, like, huge fan favorite characters in the last moments of the episode and then after episode three, I feel like we’re all kind of asking like, are we going to get Henry and Sam episode that is on a level with Bill and Frank, this kind of bottle episode that gives us more time with them, or is this going to be a journey we see them on with Joel and Allie? I’m very interested to see by just just another great episode and the writing on the show is just like so fucking good.


Jason Concepcion It’s really well done. Thoughts on what’s under the floor?


Rosie Knight I think it’s going to be a bloater. I think I think it’s going to be a blow to I think, you know, we’ve seen click because we’ve had that really terrifying reveal. I think this is very interesting that the show is not leaning heavily into the horror right now. Yeah. And it’s kind of more these moments of teasing and these momentary big reveals like in episode two. But I think I think once you get to that episode five, you’re over halfway through the season. I think that we’re going to start ramping that up. I think we’re going to see more infected. I think we’re probably going to get a couple more brutal deaths. You know, the old like head on the broken glass move from the game, the kind of the Molotov cocktail situation. I feel like that they’re building in a lot of gameplay in this episode. And I feel like they might take that to the next level and bring a little bit more violence and horror as we get to that final kind of trail to the end.


Jason Concepcion Here’s my question. Do. The people in this world. Just Joel know about Bootloaders because in the game bootloaders are super rare, right? There’s very there’s not like it’s the rarest of the boss level infected. You don’t fight them that much. I wonder if this is a semi new device?


Rosie Knight I think so.


Jason Concepcion If anybody’s seen them yet.


Rosie Knight I think.


Jason Concepcion You know what I mean?


Rosie Knight Like, I think there’s a wild west, somebody who’s in Kansas City may have. But I think they’re going to be new to Joel. I think that’s going to be he’s been in the Kasi, the clickers, him in tests. That was the thing they were most scared of, in my opinion, from the performance is from the way they’d seen it. And I yeah, I think. That I think that you’re on the path to where we’re going to get like a What the fuck is that? Like, I don’t know.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Kind of reaction from Joel.


Jason Concepcion The show continues to be fucking great. We’re going to continue our coverage with it every week and look for coverage of the game. Also to come back shortly. Up next. A very entertaining Nerd Out.


Rosie Knight In today’s Nerd Out where you tell us what you love and why all share a theory which we’re lucky to have another great one. This week, Joe is going to pitch us on how the mark with the mouth Deadpool a real beloved character at this point in both the games and the films, thanks to the Fox movies. Joe’s got an idea of how he might turn up in the MCU. So, Jason, I’ll. I’ll hand it over to you.


Jason Concepcion Sure. Joe writes. After rewatching Deadpool one and two recently, The theory that I have is that at the end of Deadpool two, when Negasonic fixes the time slider or the good old Negasonic Teenage Warhead.


Rosie Knight I love Negasonic Teenage Warhead. Still one of my all time favorite inclusions and all time favorite casting. Bring her to the MCU next.


Jason Concepcion Love Negasonic Teenage Warhead after Negasonic fixes the time slider something in how she fixed it is part of what will ultimately allow Deadpool to travel into the MCU continuity between Deadpool two and the X-Men Days of Future Past movie. It’s made clear in the Fox X-Men universe continuity that time travel is strictly linear and changing event will directly affect everything else. However, when Waid uses a time slider and saves Vanessa, the linear effects would have avoided much of the story of Deadpool two. Yet in the MCU, it’s been made very clear that changing the timeline creates a splinter effect. Since Deadpool seems to be able to jump across the splinters now, I wonder if that’s how he’ll sneak into the MCU. I like this.


Rosie Knight I think that is really smart. And also think about it. When did we last see a Wolverine, a.k.a. Logan? He was dead. So you know what? He was Some kind of time travel situation would be very useful to getting Logan back into the MCU with a Deadpool. As we know the movie will be. Obviously, there’s a variant potential, but after hearing Joe’s theory, I’m thinking that the time slider time travel and the differences between time travel in the Fox universe and the MCU universe could really be a way to get Deadpool in there.


Jason Concepcion I agree. It feels like there’s something there. Not to mention that like I mean the pre. Marvel X-Men universe was just filled with time loophole.


Rosie Knight Oh my God.


Jason Concepcion And opportunity.


Rosie Knight Speaking of Logan.


Jason Concepcion Speaking of Logan, and opportunities to pull these characters from almost any time frame that their movies like took place in? I think that it feels like Joe’s on to something.


Rosie Knight I think so too.


Jason Concepcion Would not be surprised.


Rosie Knight Because on Newest Villain Kang the Conqueror, who we’re obviously getting, you know, and Ant-Man, and it seems like it will be the Conqueror iteration of Kang. That is a man who is obsessed with time. He can control time. He’s a time traveler. Now, we know in the MCU is also going to be this idea of multiverses. But in the newest Ant-Man Quantumania trailer, they have this line where Kang says, You know, every single thing that you see is life. I will burn out of time. So I think this idea of time travel and time being a malleable thing that’s going to become ever more important to the MCU. I think Joe is on to something. This could be a We were right for the Nerd Out.


Jason Concepcion Thank you, Joe. If you have theories or passions you want to share, it is at Instructions are in the show notes. That’s it for us, Rosie, Any plugs?


Rosie Knight You know where to find me: Rosie Marx on Instagram and Letterbox’d. And this week I’m plugging the newly created Crooked Union. I’m very happy about this. Shout out to our comrades for solidarity at the, with our Crooked Media.


Jason Concepcion We love the WGAE fans.


Rosie Knight This is great. Really happy that this is happening and just sending all our support to all of our amazing folks at Crooked who announced that union movement.


Jason Concepcion Catch the next episode on Friday for returns and remember to bring you two episodes a week every Wednesday and Friday on the podcast platform of your choice.


Rosie Knight You can pick and remember. You can also find us on YouTube. Subscribe. You can watch full episodes of the show now. Ones where we were on Zoom like this being very cool and virtual ones where we’re IRL in the same place at the Crooked’s studio. Follow us at XRVPod on Twitter where we’re always doing cool stuff. Sharing, answering questions, retweeting rad things, talking about tattoos, and check out our Discord. Me and Jason are there. Our super producer, Saul, been active in there talking about D and D. You never know who you’re going to find in that. We got loads of cool friends in the pod. The guy H from Doom Pod, is in there. And we got a bunch of cool listeners and fans just talking about all the stuff that we love. And we even recently did a really rad Last of US giveaway. So we’re going to be trying to do more stuff like that. So basically join the Discord. It’s great.


Jason Concepcion That giveaway. The winner of that will be announced on Friday’s show this week. We’ll be announcing that Friday and we’ll be doing, as Rosie mentioned, more giveaways like that in the future. So. Join the Discord. It’s fun. Five star reviews we love them. Got to have them


Rosie Knight Five, five, five.


Jason Concepcion Here’s one from AJ from P.A.. Love this pod. Thank you.


Rosie Knight I appreciate it.


Jason Concepcion Jason A Rosie are great team to discuss all things pop culture. Thank you. They have great insight. You can tell They truly love discussing and breaking down the content they are discussing. I especially enjoy how they relate the series they are covering to the source material. I only wish they would cover more shows because there is so much to enjoy in the various fandoms right now. Hey, you never know.


Rosie Knight Two episodes. We we, we we’re trying to.


Jason Concepcion We’re going to queue. We may we maybe we’ll keep going. You never know. Thank you so much AJ for the kind words. X-ray vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video Production support. Alex Reliford handles social Media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for a theme music. See all Friday.


Rosie Knight Bye