Ira and Louis discuss the 82nd annual Golden Globes, Oscar predictions, Beyoncé appearing in I Love the ‘80s, Cher’s memoir, and Selling the City. Marianne Jean-Baptiste joins to discuss her role in Mike Leigh’s Hard Truths, memories of her ‘97 Oscar nomination, and more.

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TRANSCRIPT

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I am soon-to-be published author Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel That should have given a chill to everybody in the audience that people just like you can put words on the pages and then we staple them and then they’re sold. It’s sad and scary. I’m Louis Virtel. Yes, You are writing a book and it is coming out. And actually, we’re commemorating this with a strange live occasion. Is that not true?

 

Ira Madison III Yes, we are. Last year, in the ye old days of 2024, I announced my book tour for my book, Pure Innocent Fun, and the Boston Date on February 7th is going to be a live Keep it at WBUR city space in Boston.

 

Louis Virtel That means you and I will be speaking there at live Keep It as a live experience. I mean it’s not really like you know Coachella. I don’t know really why you would seek it out. But yeah, I will be there. You will be there. My brother used to live in Boston for years, and I said to myself, Maybe I’ll visit you sometime. And guess what? I didn’t. He moved to Copenhagen to get actually even further from me, and now is my chance to get back to Boston. I’m actually really, really looking forward to it.

 

Ira Madison III Ben Affleck is going to join us.

 

Louis Virtel Oh good. There was such a lovely Ben Affleck joke in the Golden Globes this week, which we’ll get into. Actually, our entire episode is about the Golden Globes. Can I just say, every time we come back from this long break, the first thing we do when we come back is talk about the Golden Globes. In fact, I believe our first episode of Keep It was talking about the Golden Globes, like we started in January. And it is so the best way to start off a year because it is just some bullshit. It is truly a room full of people standing around receiving awards and then as they receive it, it dawns on them, Why am I receiving this and who voted on it? Because I believe it’s 11 Eurovision finalists. Who else is voting on this?

 

Ira Madison III If you want tickets to our live show, you can go to our Instagram account at Keep It Show. There’ll be a link there. You can also visit iramadison.com for my other tour dates.

 

Louis Virtel Did you just say that salaciously? Oh my God.

 

Ira Madison III You know, logging on like Sandra Bullock in the Nanny.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, the vibe was giving. And there’s a guestbook.

 

Ira Madison III Wow. Remember, guest books.

 

Louis Virtel Remember Geocities? I spent a lot of time on there, and I was like, You need to come to my website where I’ve ranked my 100 favorite songs for nobody. Why would I do that?

 

Ira Madison III Where was Aimee Mann on that list?

 

Louis Virtel Do you think she didn’t have 9 to 11 entries? So you would think I spent my break productively and maybe I did. In some ways, I caught up with certain movies, but I mostly ended up on YouTube watching. I love the 80s, which is a topic that comes up a lot on this podcast and how you and I should restart it and not include any of our friends. It’s just us making the comments and that’s it. But do you know what people do not say about I love the 80s and this also includes I love the 80s Strikes Back, I believe. I actually don’t know what additions I’m talking about specifically. Beyonce is on it. And so you’ll be watching like, you know, Rachel Harris and Michael Ian Black and how Sparks give their commentary on Rubik’s Cube or whatever. And then out of nowhere, Beyoncé will just be there giving an interview about whatever. Lisa Turtle And Saved by the Bell. It’s so jarring because we never get interviews with her. So it’s like, amusing writer comment, amusing writer comment. Loss, dead sea scroll. Like what? It’s so crazy to see her just be there talking freely back.

 

Ira Madison III When VH one could actually get people into the studio.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah I believe they had a studio. Is what was going on there? Yes.

 

Ira Madison III What’s going on with VH one these days?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know. Are there still wives of basketball?

 

Ira Madison III To the merry wives of Bastille.

 

Louis Virtel You would think they would just churn out stuff like that all the time because it’s got to be so cheap. Like, these writers come in, they do like an hour of spiel and then they, you know, walk on. It’s like that show after midnight that’s on. It’s just the comedians for the Night on After Midnight will just be three of my friends, like just people who are around.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I feel like we need that again, if only because Tick tock is not reputable. Where are people getting their information these days?

 

Louis Virtel I hate finding this stuff on TikTok. It’s just not the same thing at all. People are way too self-aware to like that. They think they’re too cute talking about this stuff.

 

Ira Madison III I also have questions about I mean, I love to talk. I’m always on it, but there are always people doing videos in their car. And I’m just wondering if one people actually, like feel like an impromptu need to give, you know, a speech while they’re in their car.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Or if people just go specifically into their car to, you know, record a take their speech. Like, yeah, that’s where you do it now. Well, yeah, it’s is it because people just do that now? Is it like a general setting or is it for some people, the only quiet place to record?

 

Louis Virtel Right. That could be it. That could be either way. I’m not sensing authority on behalf of these people, and they probably shouldn’t be monologuing at us. But anyway.

 

Ira Madison III You know, if Tik Tok was around in the 90s, Joel would have killed.

 

Louis Virtel And why is that?

 

Ira Madison III Recording from her car.

 

Louis Virtel Oh. That’s true. It was a van, first of all. Second of all, he would be plenty of room. She could do multiple installments of different parts of the van.

 

Ira Madison III My last comment about vans, because over the break I was watching the challenge 40 I it.

 

Louis Virtel How old can I feel that there are 40 challenges? How challenged can we be?

 

Ira Madison III This was Battle of the eras so they brought back people from era one. No God brought people from.

 

Louis Virtel So that like a diplodocus is just out there. What? Yeah, like.

 

Ira Madison III Like you had like Tina. Rachel. Mark. Derek is competing. I want to give a shout out to Rachel who came back after not being on the show in years and is fucking dominating and is in the finals. The second part of the finals, I believe, airs this week. And also Derek, who you know, hadn’t been on the show in like 16 years.

 

Louis Virtel Is Derek Blond the ugh.

 

Ira Madison III No he’s like this maybe Latino gay guy.

 

Louis Virtel I remember him. Yes, yes, yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, yes. He was on Ryan was also on another gay who was on the show. He made it pretty far, but got cut just before the finals. But Derek is in the finals and just honestly emerged as this amazing dark horse of the game and competing against people like Corey, Johnny Bananas, Jordan and Kylan, who’s doing great on the challenge now after being on Big Brother. So I think it was just it’s just great. This season feels like it’s for the girls in the games.

 

Louis Virtel I just cannot believe you said the words Johnny Bananas to me. I mean, it’s like when does he get a Kennedy Center honors? It’s been like a hundred years.

 

Ira Madison III I love that man. And he went out early this season and Johnny Bananas is in the finals. And I feel like that is the sort of the karmic retribution or, you know, just the payoff for making it so far. And traders. Right. And Johnny Bananas cruelly being cut in the first episode of this season.

 

Louis Virtel That’s well that’s also like the weird thing about traders is it’s it’s basically random who loses and who wins. Like it’s not really skill ultimately. So I can’t say I support the game of it, even though it is a very entertaining show and UK season three to start it I hear it’s great.

 

Ira Madison III It is. I watched the first three episodes.

 

Louis Virtel I will be on that momentarily and then we’re about to get us season three also, which means we get more Alan Cumming in his his gear screaming at us.

 

Ira Madison III I want to say that it is sort of random who wins and who loses. And I feel like would you try to amass a way to win traders? It’s so difficult because you have to one, be a big enough personality so that people think you’re a trader. Yes. But you also can’t have enough people thinking you’re a trader because otherwise you’ll get banished. You can’t be a person who makes it seem like you’ll never get banished because everyone loves you and thinks you’re faithful because then the traitors will murder you.

 

Louis Virtel Right now, the skill set is extremely nebulous, and I don’t know if it’s even admirable. Like if you win the show, I’m like, Did you do it? Like, good job. I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III So really, it’s just about the drama that’s created while watching the show. It’s just chaos.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a we’ve now given Trishelle prize money. I mean, it’s a strange place. It’s a strange place.

 

Ira Madison III Don’t remind me of that. I’m surprised she wasn’t on the challenge. 40.

 

Louis Virtel What’s happening? On today’s episode? I seem to notice we have one of the great actors.

 

Ira Madison III We have one of the great fucking actors. We have Mary Jean Baptiste with us this week.

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me. I was there in 1996 when she was out for Secrets and Lies, and Juliette Binoche, whom we also love, keep a Guest won that Oscar. Marianne was up for Secrets and Lies. She is back with Mike Lee, another Mike Lee movie called Hard Truths, which I feel like is folded under the radar in terms of audience reception. But critics are obsessed with that and her performance in it. This woman is unbelievable in this movie. IRA and I both like it, love it, and I’m so glad she’s here. This woman is so rad.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we’re going to talk to her. And we’re also going to talk about the Golden Globes, the entire episode, because there’s a lot to get into.

 

Louis Virtel All I want to do when I come back from break is to talk about a fucking award show. Thank you. It’s like. It’s like. I mean, let’s just be candid. It’s like I’m rolling. It’s like I’m rolling. So.

 

Ira Madison III All right, when we’re back, the Golden Globes.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III The 80s Golden Globes premiered on Sunday, giving us a glimpse into the minds of Oscar voters. Or at least that’s what they say to keep us watching. Amelia Perez So Gardner and Nikki Glaser won big, while Nora and whoever was running the teleprompter fell short, Right. But there’s much, much more to discuss, so let’s get into it.

 

Louis Virtel Well, we should begin with Nikki Glaser, who I think everybody would agree is exactly, exactly the right fit for this ceremony. Like just the right amount of irreverence. And yet you also knew that she would care about knowing the movies and not being better than like, any of the movies and like, the whole vibe with Joe Koy. Last year was one that he didn’t prepare at all into. Hadn’t seen any movies, just not 1%. Did he belong in that stage, in that room? And with Nikki Glaser, you got the sense that she had a sensibility about all the movies, all the stars in the room. And if anything, I if I could complain about anything, I almost wish she went a little harder. But I think maybe she didn’t want to sound like Joe Koy. She didn’t want to sound so dismissive that she was relying on kind of a shtick of condescending condescension in order to sell her jokes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I feel like the only Joe Koy-esque thing was her joke about Dune, where she told Zendaya, “You were great. I woke up for all of your scenes.”

 

Louis Virtel Great joke, but yes, love it. Definitely dragged Dune. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it works. It works because it plays on the fact that everyone talked about how long that movie was.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. I guess the thing that kind of sucks when it comes to hosting an award show is the monologues themselves have gotten so short that you basically can only hit a few talking points that are required. Like you, you’re going to hit, you know, the biggest stars in the room. You’re going to make a joke about the difference between TV stars and movie stars. So in a way, it felt like she had to kind of, you know, go through the motions before she could say anything individual or really spicy that would make the monologue stand out. But you know what else is fucking bizarre? She is the first ever female solo host of the Golden Globes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Tina and Amy, you know, and then the time they had the number two ladies detective agency host.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And Ricky Gervais is host of Seven Time. Man talk about something I do not miss, Wolf. Do not bring me back to those times. No, I think almost inevitably, Nikki Glaser will be back for more, especially since there aren’t too many names that come to mind when it comes to who should be hosting these things. I don’t know. It’s like we’re filtering out of comedians whose whole thing is knowing about celebrity. You know, like that feels like a very Joan Rivers era kind of take on popular culture. And believe me, I fucking miss it. Like, that’s who I am. That’s who you are.

 

Ira Madison III So, yeah, I mean, that and the whole era of Kathy Griffin doing stand up and everything. You know, it was we really had comedians who commented on celebrity, commented on pop culture. That’s why we had I love the fucking 80s, you know, And Nikki Glaser would be front and center in and I love the 80s or I love the 90s if it were airing right now.

 

Louis Virtel Which by the way, also calls to mind. You would think Kathy Griffin would have hosted one of these awards shows by now. I mean, I understand she goes through it with like public perceptions and stuff, but like not won Golden Globes. She’s exactly right for it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Speaking of spicy, though, what did you think of the Diddy joke?

 

Louis Virtel Well, first of all, again, another thing where you knew you were getting a dirty joke like that was the celebrity story of the year. You knew something was going to happen with oil. And I have to say it once she said the word Stanley Tucci. I was like, here comes something with Virgin. Extra virgin olive oil. I know it. I liked it. I liked it. What do you think the sushi is?

 

Ira Madison III The sushi part made it funny for me.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. You thought it was a bit crass?

 

Ira Madison III I don’t think it was crass. I think it was just. It’s. It’s a weird joke to make, If only because no one in the room is technically a victim of Jerry’s. Right? You know the way. Like with Harvey Weinstein.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah. You know.

 

Ira Madison III It’s a it’s a Hollywood. It’s a Hollywood scandal. But the victims are all, you know. Poor people who are like trafficked.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. I mean, it was a bit it was in the style of her kind of roast comedy where it’s like, yeah, you you recoil for a second before you laugh.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But no, I fucking loved her. I thought she was fantastic. And honestly, the one bit that I really loved too, and wanted more of what she was doing. The popular joke, the mixture.

 

Louis Virtel The whole song.

 

Ira Madison III  The wicked do the whole song.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I wanted it. She started doing this thing where she put on a pope hat and sang Popular and the style of Wicked, and then she cut it short and was on the phone with somebody who was telling her, Wait, this bit sucks. Which is also a funny way to end a bit. But at the same time, when she was about to actually sing a song, it’s like, Man, we really don’t get that at award shows anymore. I thought we were about to get a soup, sort of, you know, the old Billy Crystal magic. Now, I’m not saying if you watch those Billy Crystal musical Oscars, you’re going to be in love with them. I watch some of those. And the jokes are, you know, deeply dated. But at the same time, you like the risk taking of somebody like that. You know, go out there and sing. And then truly, like with the widest emoji grin. Ask people to love you and maybe they don’t. You know, I think that’s fun.

 

Ira Madison III I like it when someone sings at an awards show with Ariana. Abandon, you know the band.

 

Louis Virtel Because we need to get you away from the OED. That is not going away.

 

Ira Madison III It’s my fifth day of Prozac, Lewis. Just I’m everywhere today.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Ariana’s, though, Ariana Grande, who of course, has been an Oscars favorite for Wicked Lost to Zoe Saldana for Amelia Perez. Now, I am not one of these hard liners about category fraud. It just doesn’t generally speaking, doesn’t mean that much to me.

 

Ira Madison III This is a scam.

 

Louis Virtel Zoe is the lead of that movie. She is undoubtedly the biggest part of that movie and she is amazing in it. And from the jump, I feel like every line she delivers in that movie is fantastic. But I do have to say, I guess Emilia Perez could still go all the way, like be a best picture candidate or winner, potentially. This may top green book as like the most hated best picture winner of the past 15 years or something. And I’m a fan of it. I know you don’t like it, but it’s weird that it still has legs, given that it is very polarizing all of the time.

 

Ira Madison III You know what? This is less green book for me and more giving La la Land. Because I feel like there’s people who aggressively just like it. And then there’s also people who love it.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And it’s also like a musical. But at the same time, not really the classic musical you expect. Like, as I said, when we were fighting about it, the musical moments of this are kind of just like monologues set to music. And in La La Land, obviously, there are 1 or 2 big musical moments, but it is this kind of drowsy in-between dialog and musical movie.

 

Ira Madison III And Zoe’s rapping. But it ain’t Miranda. Let’s say let’s just say that I have actually eased up on, you know, hating the movie. I don’t hate it. I think it is silly.

 

Louis Virtel It is a very silly movie. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I think that I think when you remember that a French man directed this Almodovar for brain injuries film, that it makes a lot more sense.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I compare it to the skin I live in, which is also a psychotic film, but it has more finesse and class. And this is just sort of just like colors outside the lines and it’s a little messy, like a little sloppy. That’s what I feel about the movie, ultimately. But, you know, I don’t hate the fact that there’s a queer film with a trans actor at the center getting all of this acclaim. You know, I think that Jeremy or Harris brought this up on Instagram and Billy Eichner shared it just about the fact that when a queer film comes out or like a black, there are, etc., you know, it’s always like black or queer media who sort of like attacks it. This was coming from the fact that a review from them, which sort of slammed Amelia Perez and said that it’s horrible and we need to talk about it. And, you know, I think that I can appreciate what the movie is doing. You know, I think we maybe have to come to a point critically where we discuss the merits of a film. If it’s a film that is a part of our community. You know, I hate that. But I think we’re just at such a point in the industry now where they’re barely making any fucking thing post Covid and strike. You know? So like, if we’re getting something, we should not try and drag it to hell.

 

Louis Virtel Well, also something I want to rail against is that this movie is like people on Twitter, etc. take scenes from it and then just post and be like, Well, this is trash. And it’s like, guys, the musical scene where they say the words like penis and vagina is meant to be jarring. And also it’s like, that’s also not what the entire movie is like. Like, for the most part, it’s this violent thriller, and then it sidesteps that and becomes this weirdo musical for a second. So it’s supposed to be uncomfortable and it’s supposed to be strange. Another situation like that in past years involving Oscars movies that people got up in arms about. Do you remember that movie The Good Nurse with Jessica Chastain and Eddie Redmayne? And people posted a scene with Eddie Redmayne freaking out and they’re like, This is the kind of movie that’s nominated for Oscars, when the fact is, that scene where he freaks out is the only time that character has any expression whatsoever. Like it’s a completely different character than what is advertised in that scene. And it’s like, Guys, how about you just go and see the fucking movie as opposed to like pulling little moments from it and pretending like, I’ve exposed how cringeworthy it is. Again, this this all comes back to my favorite word cringe, which, as you know, I’m like becoming like Mr. Wilson from Dennis the Menace screaming at this fucking word all the time.

 

Ira Madison III That can work in the reverse, by the way, because remember last year, all those clips from Saltburn making people think it was an interesting movie.

 

Louis Virtel Saltburn was really a case of Nobody can Die. It was entertaining throughout. And then just the ending wasn’t as good as the rest of the movie. So I think people felt like they were, you know, didn’t get their money’s worth ultimately. I thought there was a lot that was fun about that movie. I love Jacob Elordi, by the way. What are we doing with him as well?

 

Ira Madison III Jacob Elordi is he’s not starring in American Psycho, even though he was having those conversations with Luca Guadagnino when he was supposedly going to direct the shards of Bret Easton Ellis’s novel from last year. Now, Luca has switched to doing American Psycho, and he cast Austin Butler.

 

Louis Virtel Which I kind of see more than Jacob Elordi is not giving me Psycho.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Also Austin Butler sort of gives that vibe. And that period, if you remember The Carrie Diaries.

 

Louis Virtel My God. He was on that.

 

Ira Madison III He was the romantic lead.

 

Louis Virtel My God. All I know is that, like, that little mini me Kim Cattrall person looked way too much like Kim Cattrall. That was like the first instance of I had ever seen.

 

Ira Madison III Can we can answer it and just like that and so on.

 

Louis Virtel Or have they been sent to Guantanamo Bay?

 

Ira Madison III Chad has to go. But can we please just have that little trial show up? And then Samantha’s just like, wow, I visited this doctor and he de-aged me.

 

Louis Virtel Actually, your impression is too good. It’s too good.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you. I’ve been working on it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. What else happened at those Golden Globes? I did love the bit when they showed the leaderboard in terms of who had been mentioned during speeches, and they said, God, our internal creator, zero. I thought that was so funny.

 

Ira Madison III Well, there weren’t that many black winners.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah. This wasn’t exactly a Mary J. Blige at the Grammys situation.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. And you had Zoe Saldana up there wedding, But she was honestly, I loved her win. I’m like, very happy for her. I don’t need her to win the Oscar.

 

Louis Virtel Who do you need to win the Oscar? Tell me about your needs.

 

Ira Madison III Well, first of all, she’s in supporting, so I know. I don’t know, you know, because I keep I keep confusing her category. I was telling a friend that she won lead actor because I just know that she’s the lead in that fucking movie. So she would be up against. Well, let’s talk about the categories right now, like the women’s race and what the Golden Globes means for these women.

 

Louis Virtel So at the Oscars this year, Zoe Saldana will probably be up for Amelia Perez. She will almost certainly be up against Ariana Grande and Wicked, probably Felicity Jones and the Brutalist guys. I have still not seen this movie and you have to set aside like a day and a half to do it. Like you have to call it like free lunches and stuff.

 

Ira Madison III I’m seeing it this week.

 

Louis Virtel I cannot wait. My friends are obsessed with it. Margaret Qualley in the substance. I don’t think she’ll get it. She was just nominated. That’s a very Globe nomination. And then, of course, Isabella Rossellini in conclave, who, as you know, printed a couple of documents.

 

Ira Madison III You were about cloud setting.

 

Louis Virtel It’s so upsetting. And then people are like defensive about her online. Like you’ll I posted a joke about her. I was like, does anybody like how the Golden Globes keeps coming back to Isabella Rossellini every 50 minutes because then you’re going to love conclave. And somebody responded with, good. I love her bitch who doesn’t love Isabella Rossellini? She’s barely in this movie. It’s so crazy to give her an Oscar nomination. She’s been on this podcast. I interviewed her for NPR. We love her. She likes animals a lot. Great. Doesn’t deserve an Oscar nomination for this movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, supporting actor. I definitely think that Ariana Grande is going to shift back to being a frontrunner.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s okay. We’re going to get back into Ariana Grande day weekend. The line readings were good. I laughed every time. I would argue it was a similar line reading most of the time. And I would also argue she was acting the part of a character actress and not being a character actress. She was playing at Kristin Chenoweth, not being Kristin Chenoweth. That’s what I have to say about that.

 

Ira Madison III So who do you think is going to be supporting? In the Oscars race possibly that was not nominated for a globe.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I’m this is utterly wishful thinking. I don’t think it’s going to happen. I still am holding out hope for fucking Danielle Deadwyler. I mean, it’s like I was like, put on earth to, like, represent this woman. I feel like a lawyer or something. I feel like she’s so amazing in Piano Lesson, a movie that has not been talked about for even a second movie is okay. I mean, I don’t love John David Washington’s performance in it. Maybe that’s what’s turning people away. I don’t know her. I loved Aunjanue Ellis, Taylor and Nicole boys. Did you see that?

 

Ira Madison III Yes, I did. And I mean, I can’t wait to talk to Mary Ellen about her conversation with Aunjanue. For the Wrap, They did sort of an actors on actors conversation, and it was gorgeous.

 

Louis Virtel Well, Angela is this talent freak. She can do anything. Her roles have nothing to do with each other. She’s amazing in that movie and others, shocking.

 

Ira Madison III Shocked too, that that was her, to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. No, it doesn’t remind me of origin at all. It doesn’t really have King Richard at all.

 

Ira Madison III Would love a nomination for her. But you know, it is the Oscars.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. I’m feeling a bit dire about the Oscar nominations. I feel like it’s just the movies that have stuck around, quote unquote, in the conversation and like, the critical darlings are going away.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, to continue with actresses, then, you know, the Golden Globes divide the categories into drama and then also musical or comedy. So I’m not sure who is actually going to end up with an Oscar nomination. But Demi Moore, who won for best performance in a musical or comedy, I think she sort of clinched her Oscar nomination with this win.

 

Louis Virtel Well, also, first of all, if anybody ever looked like a winner in awards history, it was Demi Moore dressed absolutely like a statuette. And if you ever read the blog, Tom and Lorenzo, they’ll tell you if you want an Oscar, you have to dress like one. And she in this perfect sterling sheath. And her speech was absolutely flawless. And you know what was great about the speech she gave? It was planned to the 10th. The idea that you’re supposed to get up there and be extemporaneous or, you know, not know what you’re going to say or stumble into what you’re going to say. She had every word of that plan, and it was great for that reason. I really recommend people take Demi Moore’s hint and just not waste people’s time. It was such a it was such a great speech. And I think people now want to see even more of that speech. So it feels like she is a shoo in to get an Oscar nomination. I will say when I watch that movie and I like that movie less than other people do. To me, it was not screaming out for awards attention in the acting, even though they both do a good job. Margaret Qualley and Demi Moore. What I will say about that movie, what I like about it is it’s like a fairy tale, but the original version of the fairy tale, like, you know how if I’m just making this up, if you look up Cinderella, it’s like, in the original version, she got her hands chopped off or whatever. Like, it’s like dark secretly. That’s what this movie feels like. It’s a simple the.

 

Ira Madison III Sisters dance to death. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely.

 

Ira Madison III You’re not in a hot metal shoes.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, precisely. So it’s a cool movie on that front. And also, it is an unusual movie in the Oscars conversation and they have to embrace those conversational moments.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, also, if you have not read Demi Moore’s memoir, Jesus, we talked we talked about it on the show. Yeah, it is fantastic. I just love her.

 

Louis Virtel She is just prepared for this moment. She seems very like, you know what? At this moment, it’s me and I’m going to make it happen. And here comes amazing speeches.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, also in her category, the rest of the nominees. I do not think we’ll see. Amy Adams not nominated for an Oscar for Night Bets.

 

Louis Virtel It’s just a movie that doesn’t work, unfortunately. They had this high concept of like, layering on this feral quality to the repression that happens when you’re raising a kid and it just doesn’t work. And I think she’s the wrong actress to sort of act that out.

 

Ira Madison III I watched it last week, and honestly, I respect it more. The concept of what you give up when you’re an artist. Yes, I wish it would have dug into that a bit more. But my main problem with it was one her grad school artist friends seem like assholes and like parodies of artists. So I wasn’t really sure what world she wanted to get back to. And then at the end, when, you know, she was inspired by, you know, her night bitch era to create art, part of me was like, Well, maybe you weren’t an artist because you didn’t have anything to say.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no. If this is now what it took to make that art and also that’s so hard. Like when an artist passed to produce something in order to, like, fulfill the needs of the narrative. Because now we’re sitting as the audience judging the art and we’re like, Well, that’s fucking mediocre. It’s all about that.

 

Ira Madison III Unlike big eyes.

 

Louis Virtel My God. She’s done this before.

 

Ira Madison III You’re right. Yeah. That she played a better artist.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, that’s true. Though that movie ending and I guess it’s taken from real life with Christoph Waltz in that courtroom running up to the witness stand and then questioning himself. I mean, it was giving Fawlty Towers or something. I had never seen any sort of they were just running around over there.

 

Ira Madison III I’m also remembering this incorrectly or whatever, but I believe there was a joke back in the day when that movie came out. That call was called. Yes. Something about like you paint them big eyes.

 

Louis Virtel The joke is, I’m sorry. My friends quote this all the time. It comes up because Gore said about bad guys being the queen. Judith Kean, I forget what her name is as her. I painted those eyes big and I don’t regret a thing. Anyway. Very funny.

 

Ira Madison III Cynthia Erivo, I’m sure, will still get a nomination.

 

Louis Virtel She’s on the bubble for me, though, because I feel like Wicked is also sort of not lapsing out of the conversation, but not as central to the conversation as people once promised it would be.

 

Ira Madison III I think people are also just cognizant of the fact that we are getting wicked part too, and we’re going to do this shit all over again. That’s so.

 

Louis Virtel True.

 

Ira Madison III Why bother to laud Cynthia Erivo right now? Especially when you know that Wicked Part two is a bogus movie.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And more emotionally searing, really, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I hope Carla Sophia does not drop out. But I could see it happening.

 

Louis Virtel That was very smart of the director to let Carlos Sophia Gascon give the speech when Amelia Perez won the.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Musical or comedy Golden Globe, because we hadn’t heard from her. And actually, throughout the ceremony, she had kind of like an unreadable grimace on her face. I didn’t know what was going on there. And then she gave this appreciative, very cool speech. So it really it was a nice sort of narrative arc for her over the evening.

 

Ira Madison III It was nice to give her something to say, nice to put her front and center to and remind people that if they are planning to award Amelia Perez for the Oscars, which is your choice, Oscar voters, then they should not forget the trans woman at the center of it. Speaking of people dropping out of the conversation, I’m very sad for Michael Madison. Like, what’s going on here?

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Because once upon a time, because we were all about this performance and she definitely dominates that movie. Like the second that character comes on the screen, you’re like, this is her movie. It’s called The Nora for a Reason. Very amusing. Emotional, rough. Just it’s a complicated role. It’s also she just dominates every frame she’s in. I can’t imagine any other actors playing the part, which I don’t know if I can say that about. Like, I feel like I could see other people play Demi’s role in the substance, whereas the Nora is purely Mikey Madison.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I don’t see Zendaya getting a nomination for Challengers.

 

Louis Virtel Do I? The. I mean, I guess we have to just hope for the score situation with that movie, even though I believe. Yes, I had heard that Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross there putting forth the Challenger soundtrack, not the queer soundtrack, which also has some interesting music on it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I did see the movie. Honestly, the music I enjoyed better than the film.

 

Louis Virtel Well, some of the needle drops in that movie are like. Girl, What? I’m sorry. When they meet and this is a movie that takes place in the 1950s. And come as you are by Nirvana plays. I had friends be like, I like that choice, bitch. Why? It makes no sense. You’re just like any old song because you like that song. They play Jeremy by Pearl Jam.

 

Ira Madison III They play espresso. Would you love that? Would you love that Fagots?

 

Louis Virtel Oh. We are pigs.

 

Ira Madison III When we’re back, more Golden Globes.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back. So the actress race was a shock. Fernando Torres won for I’m Still Here.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Which I still need to see.

 

Louis Virtel Me, too. I feel bad about that. Let me just say this about Fernando Torres. So this was mentioned in the ceremony the last time a Brazilian actress was nominated for this award. It was her own mother, Fernanda Montenegro, who still with us. I believe she’s the oldest living best actress nominee. Take that, Joanne Woodward. And she’s also in this movie. I’m still here. I’m so excited to see this, especially because so my friend Jon, who’s Brazilian, I’ve never met a person more determined to prove that stereotypes about Brazil are true. He he’s like, Look at this footage of people in Brazil celebrating when Fernando Torres won the Golden Globe. Girl People are like waving hankies out a window. Said they were obsessed.

 

Ira Madison III Too bad the Golden Globes didn’t happen during New Year’s when all the games were there.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No kidding.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Really would have got up for Fernando. I am excited for her getting into the race. Although someone pointed out that the majority of Golden Globe voters are Brazilian.

 

Louis Virtel Right? It does feel a bit. Well, it’s like like Isabelle Huppert won that award a couple of years ago. And obviously she is clearly a genius and was amazing in L.A. but she was never even really considered a factor for the win here. That year, she lost to Emma Stone in La la land, you know, so. And also, let’s just say I don’t think the Golden Globes have ever had less relevance. Just who is real? I like things like the SAGs and the Critics Choice Awards have taken the place of what we once thought the Golden Globes were.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Shout out to Pamela Anderson for the last showgirl, which I have not seen. I don’t think she’ll get the Oscar nomination.

 

Louis Virtel Absolutely not.

 

Ira Madison III Angelina Jolie and Nicole Kidman are icons who we love. But both of them I feel like I’m on the fence for whether or not they’ll get nominated. I think that they’re both amazing in two movies that I didn’t particularly love.

 

Louis Virtel Well, that’s interesting. I want to get into that for a second. First of all, there’s Maria, which is a genre of movie I like, which is, as you know, two hour DeBeers commercial. And she’s just wandering into frame like like blowing kisses at us and then walking on. But yeah, I’m kind of ready for her to exit this conversation. I think she was good in the movie, but the movie isn’t good enough to sort of fit in that category. Nicole, meanwhile, I think is amazing and it should be nominated. I just think that movie and I think we’ve discussed this before is too traditionally an affair movie. It’s like it can’t figure out what to do with itself once the the jig is up.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Adrian? Len, where are you?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And the patron saint of Keep It. We love this man.

 

Ira Madison III I think that Tilda Swinton, another movie that I haven’t seen, but I’m seeing it Friday, the next day. Yes, I’m having a Almodovar afternoon date with my friend Juan, who’s been on the show before. We are going to see the Room next Door. Finally, it’s playing at the Angelika. I’ve been waiting for this fucking movie to be playing forever and I’m excited to see it, mostly because the reactions to it have been very divided. People have either loved it or they’ve been like, This is one of those words films ever.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I mean, it’s a Tilda Swinton, Julianne Moore, Pedro Almodovar movie. I think it was hardly going to be like, what an easy swallow this one was. You know, like, the like the the difficult choices people of all time.

 

Ira Madison III Now, what do you think about Ms.. Kate Winslet being nominated for that is one.

 

Louis Virtel Of the worst fucking movies I’ve ever seen her lead.

 

Ira Madison III That’s my middle name.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. She plays a photographer and it’s like an interesting story. Like this woman was like, got a picture in, like, Hitler’s bathroom or something, and she staged it and she got in the bath. Anyway, though, it feels like they were just recreating, like, Wikipedia paragraphs and turning it into one chronological movie. And at the end, the gimmick you find out where she’s talking to her son. And it turned out she’s been dead for years and they never had a relationship. I wanted to throw like heavy machinery at the TV.

 

Ira Madison III Andy Samberg, though.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. He got to be prestigious Nephilim, which I’ve never seen done before.

 

Ira Madison III That’s always fun when our SNL people turn up in something serious. Like, remember when Tina Fey did Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, right?

 

Louis Virtel No. Do you know what I just thought of? When Nick Kroll is in the movie Loving? What the fuck?

 

Ira Madison III He pops up in the weirdest shit actually.

 

Louis Virtel No. It’s also like whenever an SNL person is in a movie like this, I’m like, Did you do this over your summer? Like, this is how you spent your summer? Okay.

 

Ira Madison III We could move on to the actor race.

 

Louis Virtel I guess Brody winning. I feel like that’s the only. Sure. Yeah, I think that’s the only sure thing this year. Adrien Brody is almost certainly going to pick up his second Oscar. That was also, I think, my favorite joke of the night from Nikki Glaser, two time Holocaust survivor.

 

Ira Madison III That was. That was fucking hilarious.

 

Louis Virtel Come on. Rolls right off the tongue.

 

Ira Madison III Adrien Brody, we’ve already talked about how we both need to see the brutal words, but I thought his speech was sort of a good version of that extemporaneous thing, you know, sort of off the cuff. He didn’t really have something planned, but I’m sure he had an idea of what he wanted to say. And I think this was more shock that the Brutalist was winning a bunch of shit because I feel like everyone thought that the Brutalist was sort of not in the conversation early on.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Yeah. No, also, I was worried about that speech when it started because he was saying things like, I have a lot to say. And then of course, he stopped talking and I was like, Well, sounds like you’re not getting to it. But he kept it clipped and kept it moving.

 

Ira Madison III So Timothy Chalamet, do we think he is going to get an Oscar nomination?

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Though I feel like this is dead in the water. There’s no way he’s going to win. It is like a pretty is great. I think he’s great as Bob Dylan. I will say it is jarring, though. He looks exactly like Billie Joe Armstrong throughout the movie. I was like, this is a green day vibe, you’re wrong.

 

Ira Madison III American Idiot Next.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, I. I don’t not see it for him. I also think the movie is like, I don’t know if it’s just I’m entertained in like, that era, but to me, it was never putting on airs. It was never like, you’re supposed to think of this man as a god. You’re supposed to just think, yeah, he came on the scene, he was well-respected. And then he made this one decision that actually people hate it. I didn’t find it to be like it didn’t find it to be exalting him in a way that I think these movies often annoyingly do.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And I think what helps was that James Mangold directed the film. You know, I think he sort of did the same thing with what are the best X-Men movies that ever exist? Logan. And I think he’s also great with Girl Interrupted, Obviously, Our Queen Angelina. And Ford versus Ferrari is a film.

 

Louis Virtel Ford versus Ferrari, I believe, a Best Picture nominee.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Who’s going to win the Ford or the Ferrari? I am so stoked to learn.

 

Ira Madison III Sebastian Stan.

 

Louis Virtel What a good night for him. What a good night for him.

 

Ira Madison III He won for a different man, which has been one of my favorite fucking movies of the past year, and I’m so glad that it won best film at the New York Critics. And then him winning for lead actor in This was a shock for me. Like, I feel like every time I bring this movie up to people, no one has seen it or even heard of it.

 

Louis Virtel Well, first of all, it’s an interesting movie this year because first of all, it’s kind of substance coded. Like what happens in the movie is about one artifice and replacing it with another youthful kind. But the movie is actually a lot weirder than even the premise Lights on. And what the movie is ultimately about, the humor of it, the strangeness of it, the bleakness of it. And I mean, it’s also just formerly a comedy. All the actors in it are doing a lot of really funny work. My God. Renata Ryan’s far from the worst person in the world is the actress in this movie. This movie. This woman is amazing. It is a hilarious and a weirdo performance.

 

Ira Madison III This movie is as funny as any early fucking Simpsons episode, to be honest. Yeah. When the movie starts getting more absurd and farcical, I don’t want to ruin it for people, but the last maybe 30 40 minutes of this movie are completely bonkers.

 

Louis Virtel It’s. It’s so shocking. It’s so not what you expect. It really is a one of a kind movie. As in as I was watching it, I was almost upset at the choices it was making. And then afterwards, I was I had to acknowledge it was bold.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So he was also nominated for The Apprentice. I don’t think he’ll be nominated for that, obviously for the Oscars, but I’m hoping for a different man. There’s Daniel Craig, Colman Domingo. And Ray finds I think Colman is still pretty much secured for a nomination for this thing.

 

Louis Virtel Saying it would be really bizarre if he didn’t get nominated. Also, by the way, I just want to say I loved him in Ruston, his last nomination, that was like he he created an F word for the ages. That was a game man.

 

Ira Madison III Daniel Craig.

 

Louis Virtel He, I think, unfortunately, is falling out of the conversation because you and I are the only people who have seen the movie where that’s a.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And conclave, obviously, refunds didn’t do as much as Isabella Rossellini in the film.

 

Louis Virtel Well, he didn’t have any documents to print. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I think that we also have Jesse Eisenberg, Hugh Grant, Gabriel about Jesse Plemons, Glen Powell. I don’t really see any of them popping up.

 

Louis Virtel No, no. Hugh Grant That would be a pretty inspired choice because I think everybody loves him in that movie, Heretic. And also I just love him now more than ever. We’ve talked about how I think he’s risen to be one of my favorite actors, not just because of what you expect from him in, like Four Weddings and a Funeral. I love. I love all the weirdo choices he makes, like Paddington. I loved him in that. We were talking with Kat Cohen about that of a very British scandal. That was such a good show, too.

 

Ira Madison III Kieran Culkin was.

 

Louis Virtel Steamrolling to.

 

Ira Madison III Victory. Good in a real pain to a movie. I love that movie, actually. It’s so funny and it’s so uncomfortable to watch, but it’s really funny. And on a second watch, I watched it again. It was a lot easier to sort of take. I think it’s a movie that you you sort of don’t know where it’s going when you’re watching it and you’re afraid that it’s maybe going to drive off the cliff. But once you know that, you know, you’re in good hands with Jesse Eisenberg and you’ve seen it, it’s a great rewatch.

 

Louis Virtel Kieran Culkin is really good. And if you haven’t seen this movie, it’s about these cousins reuniting and they go on this tour of the Holocaust, basically. And Kieran Culkin plays somebody who is abrasive and strange and makes uncomfortable social choices. But at the same time, people are endeared to him. And this really vexes Jesse Eisenberg, who is more, quote unquote, normally behaved person. It’s a very relatable experience when you think you’re with somebody who is humiliating you at every turn, and yet somehow he’s playing better with others than you are. And it’s just like, I think, a universally relatable situation. I’ve heard people say it’s a little too close to his character in succession that, like, why is he like, steamrolling to victory? But I think it’s actually a pretty heavy responsibility. He makes the whole movie occur. He makes the action of the movie believable and the tension of the movie believable. And if anything, the problem is he is the clear lead of this movie. And this is another example of category fraud.

 

Ira Madison III Damn. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a scam also. I don’t see him as his character from succession at all. I see him as he’s much more human and relatable in A Real Pain, to be honest.

 

Louis Virtel Honestly, the problem with A Real Pain and we had Jennifer Gray here. We loved her in the movie Great Performance. Is the title A Real Pain? Because you realize, he’s a real pain. And also he has a real pain. And I’m falling on a sword.

 

Ira Madison III But then it’s funny when you discover that it’s water on the knee operation.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And lastly, I just. I need my daddy, Denzel Washington, to still get nominated.

 

Louis Virtel It is again, my problem with that performance is he’s the only very interesting part of that movie to me. And I think he could have a deaf ear. He could have been he could have been running more bath houses and stuff. I wanted to see him really getting into it.

 

Ira Madison III I rewatched the film and it’s I enjoyed it less this time. It really is Denzel’s movie. I was actually more annoyed that there’s moments where he’s like, What? He’s laughing and doing jokes and interacting with people. You cut right to a next scene so quickly. I wish his scenes. I wish you lived in some of the scenes more.

 

Louis Virtel Nothing about that movie was you’re living there. Everything was chop, chop, chop. You’re exactly right. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III When that and it’s weird to say about a movie that’s so fucking long, but it really is just like, here we go. Next plot point.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right. Precisely.

 

Ira Madison III Do we think that anything in the best director conversation is going to change from the Globes? Obviously, Brady Corby won for the Brutalist. By the way, I loved his speech. I love him from from his acting days, too. If you have not seen Mysterious skin, watch that movie.

 

Louis Virtel I know. I completely forgot that he’s in that movie. That was one of my formative queer viewing experiences, Mysterious skin stars. Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I think we talked about this with Joseph Gordon-Levitt with his on the show, great queer film from the 2000s, very low budget. Very. It’s a harrowing movie. It’s a movie about drama, too. But Brady Kirby is excellent in that movie. And he created he also directed the movie Vox Lux, starring Natalie Portman, which I’m kind of I have mixed opinions about that. The movie starts with a very realistic school shooting and then follows up with the Like Dummies story about a pop star, which.

 

Ira Madison III The girls love it.

 

Louis Virtel It’s provocative art. It’s provocative. I just I don’t like I don’t like the provocation necessarily.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Obviously, I think that Sean Baker will probably get a nomination as well.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Though I think Brady is going to walk away with best director. Yes. During his speech at the Globes, he was talking about randomly how directors deserve final cut, say it was very like inside baseball in a strange way that I liked him voting for. At the same time, it is pretty funny him being like, Yeah, auteurs need more ground to do whatever they fucking want. Like as my friend Devin Field said, he goes, Who will stand up for the Tarantino’s? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You know what? I think maybe one of the first times I’ve heard the phrase final cut it was in Scream three, right?

 

Louis Virtel Of course. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Word with Robert kills the director. He’s like, I’ll give you anything final cut. And then he’s like, I have it. And he slit his throat.

 

Louis Virtel You know that movie, That franchise really has it together even during its lowest moments?

 

Ira Madison III You mean the upcoming design is version of it that everyone is coming back for now, By the way.

 

Louis Virtel So weird.

 

Ira Madison III Courteney Cox has signed on for it, Never signed on for it. They just said, well, you’ve all forgot about that girl. Right?

 

Louis Virtel That is such a strange situation. Anyway.

 

Ira Madison III Lastly, I will just say that obviously I think that there will be more to come for Wicked once which Wicked part two comes out. But man, it was low. Well seeing Wicked when box office achievement presented by Vin Diesel.

 

Louis Virtel my God. Who looked like Winnie the Pooh for Armani baby Kim coming out and addressing the rock. What the fuck was that choice about? Like they have a feud or something so weird. And also Jon Chu having to give that speech was sort of confused because I think it’s a very confusing award. It’s like, wow, you did a commercial thing and we’re turning this into an award. Very The Billboard Music Awards.

 

Ira Madison III It was. And I listened. It sounded like he’d been party at the Oscars ballroom. And I well, that’s true. He’s been on this show. I adore that bad. But it was very much giving. I have to get this speech out because I’m never going to be on the stage again.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, I mean.

 

Ira Madison III Because Wicked, I don’t think is going to get any sort of other nominations besides Ariana and some technical ones and song, obviously. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like Cynthia’s not getting in the way. Like Margot Robbie didn’t get in for Barbie, you know, just. Yeah, ultimately the thing people will reward about it is something else.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. Actually not song because there’s no original song in this one, but there are, I believe, two new original songs in Wicked Part two. So once again, there’s nominations to come for Wicked next year.

 

Louis Virtel I would love for that category to matter again, so that’ll be okay.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I think my parting thought on the Globes is last night I watched Viola Davis’s Cecil Beads of Mill Award speech and I am pissed that it was not in the ceremony.

 

Louis Virtel Well, first of all, she’s like the speech team captain of all time. She shows up with a book. She has all her.

 

Ira Madison III Speeches put.

 

Louis Virtel Put your monologue from our town away because she is going to fucking clock your ass. She’ll do the whole August Wilson songbook the whole time play cycle.

 

Ira Madison III She’s giving good fucking speeches, but this one was really theatrical and maybe it’s because it wasn’t for the ceremony actually, is why she leaned in so much. Because it’s 16 minutes.

 

Louis Virtel Hell, yeah. And yeah come on, Greer Garson, get up there.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And when she gives this just speech, she talks about how, you know, life is like an old fat man who’s dropping gold coins on people who don’t deserve it. And he’s falling over on people indiscriminately and talking about how she grew up in poverty, seeing rats and they didn’t have a toilet that flushes. She wet the bed and she was weird and people didn’t call her pretty. And then that leads into taking roles for money and meeting her. Husband and finding like the magic and acting. I was just like, God damn. Like she would win an Oscar for that speech if it were in a movie.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, she is one of a kind. I mean, like, she’s a frightening Yale grad, and just you put her in anything and she’s so game 100%. I kind of am ready for her to do, like, a really hard comedy, because I think she also, as much as she is like serious speech team woman. I think she also loves like, you’re going to fucking lay you lay you out like so she’ll agree to bitch to filth.

 

Ira Madison III We love to laugh. Chow.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III We love a good laugh put out of sleep. And this was also the last time I sort of want to hear the joke about how they said, You’re going to be the next Meryl, because that’s in every speech. I feel like a runner. Can we just put them in a fucking comedy together? Give us fuck gig. But I want you know, I have mixed thoughts about the overall movie, mostly Roseanne’s performance in it. But if we could get she double Meryl and Viola.

 

Louis Virtel I chemically could not watch only murders in the building, but it sounds like Meryl is getting that kind of performance on that show. So I think this is available to us.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we are back, we will be joined by the words can’t even describe how amazing this woman is. Marianne Jean-Baptiste.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Ira Madison III You know this week’s guests from Secrets and Lies and Without a Trace. But she also gave one of Louis and A’s favorite performances of the year and Mike Leigh’s Hard Truths. The film offers a spectacularly layered look at mental health, family ties and how the two intersect in humorous and heartbreaking ways. You’ve heard the National Society of Film Critics of War, the New York Film Critics Circle and the L.A. Film Critics Association. We are wanting that Oscar for you. Please welcome to Keep It. It’s Marianne Jean-Baptiste.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Thank you. Thank you.

 

Louis Virtel My God. I mean, it’s so staggering to even bring up this movie because it’s about such an unusual character. This is basically a woman who gets into a hostile confrontation every time she leaves the house. It might just even be with herself. It can be with anybody. And you’re sort of figuring out what’s with her. And then the movie doesn’t give you any easy solutions. And then when you read about making this movie and the months and months and months of character work that went into creating it, it’s extra staggering. I mean, there’s probably nobody on the planet who knows a single character better than, you know, this person.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste No, that’s right. Yeah, because we. We create them from scratch, basically. You know, we whenever you work with Mike Lee, you know, the instructions are. I don’t know what it’s about. I don’t know what you’ll be doing in it. And but we’re going to have a good time and we’re going to go on a journey of discovery. And that’s what happens.

 

Ira Madison III And so I listen to this beautiful conversation that you had with Angela Ellis about your roles in this and Hard Truth and hers and Nicole boys. And you talked a bit about creating this character. And I guess you said that Mike tells you to come in with, you know, sort of five people you imagine, and then you’re sort of creating a character from, you know, an amalgam of these people. But, you know, sort of who did you come in with when you started this? You know, what was your what was on your mind? I’m working with Mike again. He’s asking me to bring something in. Like what? What did you just sort of think about bringing to the table?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Well, you know, with my you as you previously mentioned, it’s not my first rodeo. I actually went with I actually went in with a list of over 100 people.

 

Ira Madison III Oh Wow.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Yeah. And so we sit down and you discuss all of the characters and whittle them down. And we landed on about five people. I’m really sorry. The bloody. The tease arrives.

 

Ira Madison III Please get the tea.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste You know, I ended up with about five people. But that is just to root the character in reality. Because at that point, if we do these exercises, which he called trade secrets and too much, the characters, which are both physical and, you know, lots of discussion, and then you start again from scratch, you say, okay, do you feel this person? You get a sense of who they are. And you go, Yeah, I do. Or you kind of go, God, you know, I’m not sure. And you start from first memory. Okay. Then you work up all the way through going to school, teachers, friends or not having friends in some people’s cases. And then when they get to a certain age, you might go into rehearsal room and somebody else will be sat there. Like, in my case, it was Michelle Austin. And he’d say, okay, these two characters are going to be playing sisters. And of course, she would have gone through the same process in isolation with em. And then you start again, you know, parents these three years older than Shantelle. So what was it like when she came home from the hospital? Blah, blah, blah. Then you start making a history together.

 

Louis Virtel And that history is very apparent on screen. Like you watched this family interact and it just feels like there’s a lot of shared history there. But also staggering about this movie is just the amount of like silences among the family here. Like this is a movie that you kind of think is going to be all hard conversations. Then it really turns a corner to something totally different. Which also brings to mind something else that’s crazy about this situation. You have no script. When you start with Mike Lee, you have no idea what’s going to happen or basically even how big your part is going to be. So when you’re making this movie, are you just putting all your trust in him or do you feel like you just throw your hands up and say, I have no idea what I’m giving? I hope it’s enough?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Yeah, literally. I mean, you do, because I should mention as well that he makes it very clear from the beginning you will only know what your character knows. So in a lot of the sections, when we’re working together, for example, like, you know, patterns in his memory of Shantelle coming home from the hospital, Michelle would have to pop out of the room because she wouldn’t know what Pansy thought about her coming home from the hospital. So it kind of keeps everything honest. You cannot sort of like preplan anything. I’m going to react to like this. So, you know, that’s going to happen because you don’t know what’s going to happen. It’s like like, you know, we can make assumptions about things, but we don’t know for sure.

 

Louis Virtel Do you ever think to yourself, Mike Lee, can you please just be normal? Can you please just make this easier for me? I’m in here for months making this damn movie with you.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste There are times where you just. I mean, I’d go home from rehearsals, especially when you’re working with him in isolation, and it’s just you and him talking all day. And I’d just be like, I don’t want to talk to anyone. I do not want to be asked another question in life, you know? Yeah. You want to stress what I mean? When he killed off Pearl, who is Shawn telling his mother? We were. We wanted to kill him. We were just like. We were so attached to her. And we went out and had a drink together to commiserate after rehearsals because we were like, What? Who could play power? What actress is he going to bring in? And we were getting really excited about it. Then he killed her off and it was like, Damn.

 

Ira Madison III So my question, I guess is a next question is about the technical aspects of your rehearsing, your improvising. At what point do you sort of solidify a scene? Is it then transcribed? Or, you know, how can you get sort of the script there so that the other parts of the film can sort of come into play?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Right. So what happens is like we work 2014 weeks. The majority of those 14 weeks are spent building the worlds, building all the characters, the history, you know, relationships going right up until where the film starts. At that point, we move into location. And he likes to say scene by scene, location, location, sequence by sequence. We improvise and those improvizations are repeated and honed and. A very, very sort of like locked in. So by the time we shoot anything, nothing is improvised on camera. Everybody knows exactly what they’re going to do. You know what their motivation is and all that sort of stuff.

 

Ira Madison III I love that process. And I think it. During your conversation with Angela, you also talked about how your first work with Mike Lee was in 93 on a play. And I was trying to look up more information on that. It was called a Grape. It’s a great big shame. But what was it like doing, I guess, theater with Mike Lee and it being your first time getting to work with him?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste My. It was crazy. It was. I mean, when you’re in drama school, you do all these exercises, you explore and all that sort of stuff. And so you come out of drama school and then you go into the traditional way of doing things. But so going back to work with him again was like going back to school. You know, you get to use your imagination, you sit there and you go, okay, what, for example, with the hard truths, you know, what does Pansy like? And the list would be tiny, but we’d sit there for ages. And of course she doesn’t like Kiwi. She doesn’t like say, why us? And I say, because they’re hairy. And what about peaches? I She hates peaches. And I mean, it’s like, you know, you sit there and you know you are. I mean, it’s just a wonderful experience because you’re like a kid. You know, and he encourages so much curiosity. You just kind of remember, like, God, yeah. This is what it’s like to be curious, to want to sort of seek the particular in certain situations and find the nuances and you have the time to do it, which is great.

 

Louis Virtel I want to say also about this character of Pansy. Not only I’m sure when people come up to you and talk about this movie, they’re telling you about somebody it reminds them of and they would never tell that person. She reminds them of her. Like, this is a character who is, like toxic in every way. And yet also, like, reminds you of real people. So you’re like thinking of somebody who, like, treats the waiter that way or treats the person at the furniture store it that way. Have you found yourself like, being entrusted with secrets about people’s personal lives and the people they’re dealing with all the time?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Yeah. I mean, I got I mean, after one of the few days, a guy walked up to me and said, because I’d explained about the list of people, he goes, my mother in law was probably on that list.

 

Louis Virtel Oh Jesus, Yeah.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste And he I kind of gave him a very dirty look. But I’ve had mothers, aunties, mother in laws, grandmothers. I mean, everybody’s got a pansy. Everyone. Some people have even professed to being pansies. And I’m like, No, no, you’re too self-aware. There’s no way you could be a pansy.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Which reminds me, by the way, I think when I when I met you a few weeks ago at that dinner, you had said that it’s actually sort of comfortable for you to watch yourself in this role because it’s so unlike you that you don’t for a second think, I’m watching myself on the screen. That’s nothing like me up there.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Yeah, it’s great because I remember the wrap party. They were just showing little clips, you know, because none of us could see we don’t see the film until we see the film. So we don’t know what it’s about in its entirety. And I looked up and I saw Pansy, and I was like, my God. Like, don’t look like that, do I? And we showed that. No, no, you don’t. You don’t you don’t you smile a lot more. You’re happier. That’s not you. Because it was. Yeah, it just looks like somebody else. She looks. It’s wonderful, actually. It’s like my dream to transform as an actor, you know, and be unrecognizable. So it’s a really, you know, it’s a really great thing to kind of go, Wow, that’s her that. Yeah, that’s not me.

 

Ira Madison III Switching gears a little bit, just speaking to about you sort of transforming in a role I recently got to finally see Peter Strickland’s In Fabric, and that is just this like crazy, you know, giallo inspired, like sort of horror movie about a killer dressed as sort of I just want to know that seems like something so unlike the other work that you’ve done before. So, you know, what was it like preparing for that? Is are those the kind of movies that you enjoy, or did you have to immerse yourself into that sort of genre before you worked on the film?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Right. I think that was, well, not a turning point, but it was. I kind of made a decision that I wanted to kind of go back. Where I started didn’t doing the type of work that I found interesting that was going to be challenging and that I would have an experience with. And this script arrived and my agent at the time sort of said, this is a script is bonkers, but I love it. I think you should give it a read. And I said, okay. And then I get another message saying, Don’t read it. Watch this film for you and then you’ll get an idea. And I was like, is to like, I’ve read it and it’s great.

 

*Laughs*

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste And he sent me Barbarian Sound Studio. And yeah, about 15 to 20 minutes. And I emailed him back and I was like, man, I just want to I just wanted the experience of working with this guy because he seems out there. I want to see how he sees the world. I just want to know, you know? So that was that was great. I had a really good time on that getting into her. Sheila.

 

Louis Virtel Before we let you go, I have to ask one thing since we want you on the path to Oscars glory. If you have any awesome memories from your time being nominated in the mid-nineties for a movie that I read, I frankly can’t shut up about secrets, and we’re.

 

Ira Madison III Bringing up a great time.

 

Louis Virtel One of the great best picture nominees of the 90s, a staggering film, a very emotional film where everybody is amazing. Every actor is fabulous. Do you have a particular favorite moment from that time?

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste From the Oscar time. Gosh, It was so surreal. We didn’t. I mean, I was at the gym. I was doing a film called Mr. Jealousy, which is a Noah Baumbach film at the time. And I was in the gym on the treadmill and coming from south east London. The Oscars was something that happened far, far away in sunny Los Angeles, and we had no inkling that we were going to be like even talked about in that space. So I remember being on the treadmill and there were these attendees up and people were sort of chatting and then nudging and poking and pointing. And this guy came up to me and he said, You’ve been nominated. And I was like, What? What? And he cuts like, Yeah, Lord. And I nearly fell off. It was just like, my gosh. And I got off and I didn’t. I mean, I’ve done I’ve had to go back to the gym, to the locker to get my stuff because I just went back to the apartment I was staying in to phone home and sort of go on W and of course everybody else attacked. I was kind of the last one to know. I remember that.

 

Louis Virtel I was like, my God, that’s amazing. Wow. I’ve never gotten good news at the gym before. How exciting.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste It was very, very good.

 

Ira Madison III Also, if our listeners have not seen it, Mr. Jealousy, that is like early. Noah Baumbach, I believe, is right after kicking and screaming and such a such a beautiful small film from him.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste So yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Marianne, thank you so much for joining us this week. I mean, you are truly phenomenal in this movie and I just love your collaborations with Mike Lee. Like I write, I hope you get to do another one. You know, it’s something.

 

Marianne Jean-Baptiste Yeah, me too. But, you know, yeah, he doesn’t sort of it takes me maybe 28 years.

 

*Laughs*

 

Louis Virtel Keep the record going. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III When we’re back. Keep it. And we are back for our favorite segment of the episode. It is. Keep it, Louis.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III What’s on your mind.

 

Louis Virtel My Keep It this week is to the Cher memoir, which came out. I got it as a Christmas gift because I asked for it angrily. And.

 

Ira Madison III I would just give that to you in general.

 

Louis Virtel Now, I’m sure if you work in Barnes and Noble, like, I better get this for Louis, just in case he doesn’t have it. I’m excited to read it. I haven’t even started yet, but I just learned that Cher does not do the full audiobook for her own memoir. Because she is.

 

Ira Madison III Excuse me.

 

Louis Virtel She is. Excuse you. She is incredibly dyslexic and she’s not going to stand there and read the entire audiobook. So Stephanie J. Black, who won a Tony for playing Cher in The Cher Show, is reading it Cher Bitch, Unacceptable. Can you stand at the mic and just make up a memoir and say it into the microphone. Thank you. Just tell me what you remember about Sonny. Tell me what you remember about, I don’t know, Johnny Carson being a dick to you or whatever’s going on in the 60s and 70s. Tell me about. I Got you, babe. Tell me about Turn back time. Tell me about believe. Tell me about Auto-Tune. Tell me about Chaz. Whatever. Just it can be a 15 minute audio book. Great. I just want to hear those things. And you saying it, being self-deprecating, maybe you know what she should have done? She should have had stood at a mic, you know, the way like Fran Lebowitz does and just taking questions and then then responded to those. In fact, the question should have been only from me. It should just be me and her speaking. Remember when you were in come back to the five and dime. Jimmy Dean. Jimmy Dean, Sharon. She’s like, I sure do. You know that I’d be great.

 

Ira Madison III I would. And you could finally get to the bottom of why she erased it from her filmography.

 

Louis Virtel When she won that Oscar. Yes, she won an Oscar. And she said to Meryl Streep, You were in my first movie with me, which is not true. That was Silkwood, which is after Come back to the Five. And I’m Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean and Chastity from the 60s. I’m like a movie detective.

 

Ira Madison III I’d love to see that series.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Please, let me get to the bottom.

 

Ira Madison III Detective.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, let me get to the bottom of something that nobody is wondering about. Great.

 

Ira Madison III It would be, like, bored to death.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. My God. Remember that show, Zach Galifianakis? What are we doing with you?

 

Ira Madison III He’s behind, like, a couple of phones or something. Like, got one more?

 

Louis Virtel He’s. He’s behind it. More friends.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I am shocked that the book was not written, just in a way where she spoke and they transcribed everything that she said. Yeah, because then you could have just used that for the audio book, you know, if you knew that was going to be the problem, I would have attacked it head on from the beginning. Because you want a you want a Barbra Streisand, you want a Mariah Carey moment from her doing the audio book, By the way, what I meant any party these days and holiday season, it was that many. You could just find me in a corner telling a gay man that he needs to listen to the meaning of Mariah, the audiobook, because please, best thing I’ve ever listened to.

 

Louis Virtel No, it’s that and the Barbra Streisand memoir again. I literally remember where I was listening to different parts of that book. I’m like, my God, It was in Puerto Vallarta when I got up. What’s up, Doc? And all this stuff. Audiobook stick with you. It’s like a pretty underrated medium, even though it’s a cheap fucking way to get a Grammy. And I’m looking at you.

 

Ira Madison III Helen Hayes Well, as you know, I am also in the midst of recording my audiobook.

 

Louis Virtel my God, I hate you. Being Grammy eligible. Takes a fucking village over here. Fuck you.

 

Ira Madison III Either I will be Grammy nominated or I can say that I’m, you know, like Nicki Minaj.

 

Louis Virtel Just nothing at all. Not on the board, shall we say?

 

Ira Madison III I can. I can rail against the Grammys when I’m not nominated. And a Nicki for that in a Nicki style rant.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Okay. Well, I look forward to that Queen radio moment for you, IRA, what is your key about?

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of Queens, my keep it goes to a diva on the new series Selling the City, which as you could imagine, is the New York version of Selling Sunset. Okay. This one takes place at Douglas Elliman, the real estate company, instead of the Oppenheimer Group, which is in Los Angeles and then also in Orange County for selling The O.C.. The show is fun, you know, it’s not as good as the other two series I just mentioned, but I love just spending time with women bickering while they’re selling real estate.

 

Louis Virtel Sure. Yeah. Real estate TV, unfortunately, is always good. I love that million dollar listing show with those true douchebags.

 

Ira Madison III But there is a woman on the show named Jordan Taylor. Whose big thing is that? She used to date Trevor Noah.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, sure. I’m sure several people have.

 

Ira Madison III Had at one point in the series. She says they she talks about how they met. She says that they met on Twitter. And first of all, I’d like to see those interactions.

 

Louis Virtel Okay.

 

Ira Madison III They met on Twitter and she says that she was the funny one in their relationship and that he often stole her material and she would see it on The Daily Show.

 

Louis Virtel What on earth were they talking about all the time? What kind of geopolitical things were they just babbling about? And he was like, Allow me to take this to the television.

 

Ira Madison III Obviously, delusion is a big part of being a good reality star. You know, you want someone to be delusional. But this. We’re jumping out the window here, ma’am. I do not think that Trevor Noah was going into The Daily Show every day and repeating your jokes to the writing staff.

 

Louis Virtel And then saying, and we have to put them in, you know, these can be punched up. Well, also, it’s like it’s very much like when you say something like that. You have to give me an example. You know what I mean? Like, say the thing you actually said that ended up on the show because it’s just so unlikely. Like, like dress for shows like that go through like 7 or 8 iterations before they actually make it to air and they’re pared down, etc.. So for her, it just seemed it seems very unlikely that someone she that’s something she would say at random would end up on the show.

 

Ira Madison III And multiple times.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III You know, like this isn’t a big eyes situation here.

 

Louis Virtel Because apparently our favorite movie. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Also but I do want to say something about that just in the sense of if you’re dating like a comedian or a writer or something, obviously they draw from their real life and you draw from conversations that you have with people naturally funny shit that you say with your friends will end up in your comedy. But when it goes through, as you said, drafts in a writer’s room or even just if you’re a standup, working on jokes and doing punch jobs, or just finding out what works in a room and what doesn’t. No one is lifting your comedy girl.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right. It doesn’t feel diabolical. Like, I just can’t picture a version where she’s being screwed over to that degree. That said, I’m going to investigate myself. I want to see with this. How is she funny?

 

Ira Madison III She’s. She’s. She’s kind of funny. She’s got it. She’s kind of like a light bitch. Not as much as this girl Jade, who was a full on hater. Like old school, hater. Okay. She is a bitch and is constantly attacking this girl, Eleanor. And yet on the show, people keep saying I thought they were friends. And when they’re not in the same scene as each other, they’re always like, Well, you know, she’s my good friend, but she’s really pissing me off.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. They’re really at it. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But anyway, Jordan, she’s fine. I just want to say that lastly, she does not want to be known mostly for having dated Trevor Noah. She wants to make a name for herself in real estate. Right. But then they’re talking about selling a condo to Michael B Jordan, and she wants to handle it because, as you know, I’m good with celebrities.

 

Louis Virtel Is that what that means? But also, they’re like a species. Michael Jordan, Trevor Noah have very little in common to me.

 

Ira Madison III Well, they have one thing.

 

Louis Virtel Go ahead.

 

Ira Madison III Apartheid.

 

Louis Virtel What? I put in the fruit and Fruitvale Station. Did I mention.

 

Ira Madison III All right, that’s our show.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you to the glorious Marianne Jean-Baptiste for being here. I pray to God she gets an Oscar nomination for giving our favorite performance of the year.

 

Ira Madison III She does not. We’ll have to take those hard truths.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Another hard truth. It’s right in the title.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. All right. We will see you next week with more. Keep it and make sure you go and get tickets to our live show at WB your city space in Boston. You can get tickets on our Instagram at keep it show you can go to the WB your city spaces website or IRA Madison TikTok. Wrap up. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel You can also subscribe to keep it on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Chris Lord and Kennedy Hill. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, Louis Virtel and Kendra James.

 

Louis Virtel Our digital team is Megan Patsel, Claudia Sheng and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.

 

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