Futurama S11, Invincible: Atom Eve, & Picketing w/ Cody Ziglar | Crooked Media
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August 02, 2023
X-Ray Vision
Futurama S11, Invincible: Atom Eve, & Picketing w/ Cody Ziglar

In This Episode

On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight talk picketing with Cody Ziglar! In the Previously On (4:13), Jason, Rosie, and Zig discuss the new Loki season 2 trailer. In the Airlock (13:11) they dive deep (deeep) into Zig’s experience working on the new Futurama reboot on Hulu as well as discussing the Atom Eve special episode of Invincible on Amazon Prime. Then in Nerd Out (45:32) a listener question about manga.


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Jason Concepcion Warning. This podcast contains light spoilers for Futurama first couple of episodes. And some heavier spoilers for the Atom Eve special episode of Invincible. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion.


Rosie Knight And I’m Rosie Knight.


Jason Concepcion And welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked Media podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.


Rosie Knight In this episode and the Previously On, we are talking about Loki Season two trailer from the struck Disney Corporation.


Jason Concepcion Save us, Loki Season two, You’re our only hope.


Rosie Knight You’re our only hope. In The Airlock, it’s animated TV time, including the surprise Invincible Season two zero episode about Atom Eve, which was delightful. And the amazing Futurama Season 11 with Cody’s Zig Ziglar.


Jason Concepcion Futurama’s back.


Rosie Knight It’s back baby. In Nerd Out,  a comics recommendation question. And as I mentioned, we are joined today by Cody Zig Ziglar.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Aye.


Jason Concepcion Aye. Zig, how are you?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I am good. I am fresh off of picketting the struck company Disney this afternoon. And even though the humidity is out, everyone is also still out. It was the first time I’ve been there since SAG has joined the fold. Not unlike the rest of the Avengers are joining Captain America.


Rosie Knight On your left. On your left.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah. I am so glad that new blood is out there because I was so drained after only being there for like 40 minutes in the heat. So it is definitely nice seeing some like young, enthusiastic faces. Also, I forget how many children are actually in SAG, so I was out there, like man them.


Jason Concepcion Like there are a lot of kids.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I was like I forget that there are legitimately a lot of children in this union because I was like, Man, these people really brought out their children out. Then I’m like, Oh wait, these are actual union members of of SAG. So that explains why they like eight year olds on the line. That makes a lot more sense.


Rosie Knight Dude, how evil do you have to be as in a corporation that you have an eight year old picketting you. That’s so sick. And the children of the future, baby.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, yeah. Bring them down, baby.


Jason Concepcion Let me just say, I was at I was picketing Universal last week in the heat in the in the extreme heat of the valley for the event was just a normal picketing, but it was all comics writers. Our friends Zep Wells was there, our friend Andrew T was there, other people were there. Lots of folks. But one thing I found out at this particular picket on Lankershim Boulevard in the Valley is that SAG is not allowed to picket there because it’s literally too dangerous.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Really?


Jason Concepcion They were afraid that like a node, some notable actor could get smushed. And it’s true because you’re crossing a lot of roads also. They’ve like, done you know this is the place where they cut the trees and it’s also the place where they forgot to do this. They had to do some construction on the sidewalk. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to walk in the street.


Rosie Knight Yeah. I think I just saw today. I think somebody shared that maybe they’ve made they’ve now made a new gate to make it safe for people to pick it there, which is something SAG has been asking for for a long time because as you mentioned, like with the cut trees, which was done against the city regulations, they’ve definitely been making that as hard a place as possible for people to picket.


Jason Concepcion Just been nuts. It’s also the place where.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I do.


Jason Concepcion Apparently people have been intentionally hit by cars.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, I’ve heard that.


Jason Concepcion They hit people over there.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I think it’s also funny that like, they were like, all right, you know, this is the comic creators can go. They went in them there and they all go, don’t go fall on the grenade.


Rosie Knight They just they don’t have a union, You know, what they’re going to do about it? Like.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Does the world need another Wally West story? We don’t know. Send them there, you know.


Jason Concepcion Well, let’s get into it. Coming up next, Previously On First up in the Previously On, the Loki Season two trailer, which came out today. The taping was on a monday and the trailer appeared this morning with a wonderful surprise, the appearance of Ke Huy Qwan as Ouroboros. And folks, let’s hope that this is the is the show that can swing things back to good feelings for the MCU on television because it looked fun and it was great to be to spend time with some old favorites. Your thoughts?


Rosie Knight Yeah, I, I think it’s very interesting. I think they’re in a tough situation because it is very Kang focused. As much as they kind of only.


Jason Concepcion He only appears, his face only appears for like half a second. It feels like there’s a lot of the.


Rosie Knight But he is the threat in the movie. I will. I will say I have a piece coming out, which was my theory all along, which I’m sticking to now, which is I hope there is an easy fix for this entire situation, which is Ravonna Renslayer was Kang in the comics during the.


Jason Concepcion . I think that’s right.


Rosie Knight During the Terminatrix Objective and it would be really easy to just make Ravonna Kang and let Googoo have her moment in the sun.


Jason Concepcion That is my guess what they’re doing.


Rosie Knight I think it. I think it’s really smart. Yeah, it looks fun. Disney pay your writers. Pay some actors too. Like, sounds like they’re also stringing. Interesting, I didn’t know It was like co-directed by Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead, who are like, really weird indie horror guys who’ve made a lot of, like, cosmic horror. So that was interesting when I found that out.


Jason Concepcion Yeah. Any thoughts, Zig?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar You know, I will say it. I did watch the trailer today. I will say the thing that I’ve always been drawn to most about the Loki series is that it seems like the most outside of Guardians of the Galaxy, the most tapped into. Like, how fun. The cosmic side of, like, Marvel can be.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar And like, even with this trailer, like, it seemed fine. It seemed like the most comic booky. It seems like it’s the most. It’s the series that gels together the most. I think consistently, like I think like with Wanda Vision, like those first six or seven episodes when it was just a TV episode from a different decade. Like, they sort of, like lean into like the medium, which is like, this is like a fun like, almost like Quantum Leap, Rick and Morty type of way.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar TV show. And like, I’m going to be optimistic. Like, I enjoyed the trailer. Owen Wilson looks like he’s having a lot of fun and.


Rosie Knight Love to see him.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah. So, like, I’m remaining optimistic and I am very curious to see, like, how the Kang of it all is going to sort of, like, sort itself out.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Yes, that is the question.


Rosie Knight That’s the big question.


Jason Concepcion I think. Here is my well, I guess this is a prediction. I think you’re right, Rosie in that they’ll, there was probably some last minute tweaking, but they will, I’m assuming, let this series run as it was intended to run and that most this they’ll move on from this. And certainly Jonathan Majors is Kang and maybe Kang in general is like the the focus. But I also feel like The Flash probably gave them some cover, weirdly, and in a terrible way to think about it. No, no, no. Like, well, forget The Flash got away with it, just keep running.


Rosie Knight I think that was in I think that was definitely influential. I think because The Flash didn’t make a lot of money. That also probably impacted the way they decided to go forward. Like it was released, but it wasn’t a hit. You know, so I’m interested to see how that influences them. Also, I do need to say something I find very interesting about this is like so that this is very like you’re saying, Zig, like the Rick and Morty of it. So low key seems to be in this situation where he’s like times slipping, they call it where he kind of can’t control where he’s going. Yeah, that’s very similar to the conceit of the Marvel’s where they keep switching between time and space. I am unsure whether that is going to be connected or whether it’s just that total coincidence, because I would have before been like, this is obviously there’s some kind of cosmic entanglement. Did it, Did it. But nowadays I’m just interested to see how that plays out because it seems very similar, but it looks fun. I like that kind of stuff.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, Yeah, I like that also. You know, the conceit of Marvel is that they’re not afraid to recast anyone, no matter how many movies they’ve been in.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Also, with the added benefit of, like, you know, there’s an infinite number of Kangs or like, you know, all of a sudden we’re going to go to a Kang.


Rosie Knight Exactly.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Number 37 QB is like, looks a little different than, than maybe the other Kangs we’ve seen, like.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And there was also.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Work out.


Rosie Knight There’s time. There’s times in the comics where Kang is, like, more of a mantle. Yeah. Like that. Different people from different time. You know, so I think, yeah, there’s lots of space that will be very interesting. Only six episodes. So that will be interesting to see how it goes down. Yeah, I think. What is it, October?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar October sixth, I believe.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Some good chillin time from now to then and hopefully you can come in with a bang and hopefully everyone who worked on it got paid on time. We know that didn’t happen with some of the Secret Invasion folks, as we had Katt Basco saying on the picket line. So.


Jason Concepcion Oh, my God.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Wait, hold on. Let’s talk about this one. Oh, okay.


Rosie Knight Okay. So essentially, Kat Basco, who was a co-producer, I believe, and a writer on Secret Invasion, said that Disney thought that if they paid people on time to work on MCU shows, they wouldn’t be as eager to, like, work hard.


Jason Concepcion I’m going to read the quote. I’m going to read the quote. Here it is. So this is again from Kat Basco, as told to The Wrap. And here is the quote, quote, Their explanation was, and this is about writers getting paid on time, which is a continual issue, whether it’s the WGA, SAG, getting your money is a multi week, multi month process. There are there are things in the contracts that say that stipulate you have to be paid according to a certain timetable. And honestly, the aim in the studio is just ignore it and ignore it brazenly. And they’ve always said.


Rosie Knight They’re going to keep ignoring it. They’ve been quite honest about it.


Jason Concepcion They’re going to keep ignoring it. Yeah, they’ve been very, very, very straightforward about the fact that they are not going to adhere to any kind of payment deadlines anyway. Here is Katt Basco to The Wrap quote there explanation the AMPTP was then we wouldn’t be incentivized to work as hard. It’s insulting to hear with the amount of work that we’re already that we already do for free. So Kat essentially saying that what she got from a conversation, one would one would surmise from some Disney exec was that the reason we can’t pay you is because then you guys are just going to go and play Fortnite and.


Rosie Knight She’s going to buy some food and be relaxing on her sofa.


Jason Concepcion Hungry for the rent money. Yeah. And listen, I’m sure that if you.


Rosie Knight Deranged.


Jason Concepcion I’m sure that if you could get this exec on the record is it was not what I meant at all. I just meant that. Yeah, I didn’t mean that. But why don’t you tell him? I didn’t mean that


Rosie Knight Taken out of context.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, that’s not what I’m talking about. Yeah, I was trying to say I understand how much the writers love the work. They do it for the passion of the work in standing there with the creativity.


Rosie Knight Like David Zaslav said, we all love it. That’s why we’ll get back to work for the love of making things.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I love being in a room for 8 to 10 hours a day not getting paid.


Rosie Knight It’s great.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s great.


Jason Concepcion I love wondering where the money’s coming from, saying you’re emailing your reps saying, Hey, can you bug them again? Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Hey, it’s been a month.


Rosie Knight Can I pay my rent. Dude, that. I’m like, This is this is one of the reasons I was happy to see the comic book writers picket because like, this is a similar thing in comics. I, I love to write a script to a specific commission and then be told that the commission has changed and have to rewrite it for free. And that happens a lot. Oh, actually, now this character can’t be involved or this character can’t do that. So can you rewrite it and know your your contract that you signed? Does not a work by contract give you money for rewrites like the amount of free work people are already doing and creative industries is like people don’t even realize how much of what you do is free.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, yeah.


Jason Concepcion Always.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I think, I think it. I think it took me a month to get my first She-Hulk paycheck. Now that I think about it, like I just went back to my emails to look when my start date was when my first actual check was and it was 30 days to the actual time that I started. So, you know, the tradition continues.


Jason Concepcion Yes. Up next, Futurama , Atom Eve.


Speaker 1 <AD>


Jason Concepcion Let’s talk about something much more fun, and that is Futurama on Hulu, or at least on the struck company, Hulu, that is owned by multiple struck companies. But one of one of the writers on that particular series is Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar, who has once again managed to sneak himself into a frame of a television program.


Rosie Knight Making yourself canon in every series.


Jason Concepcion Yes. Zig, Tell us about Futurama returning to the screen.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s a I’m sure, like most people actually, I’m sure, like both of you are huge fans of The Simpsons and Futurama.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah. When I, you know, got the call that I was coming back and I could be a part of it, it was a dream come true. I am a huge fan of that series and The Simpsons like, you know, I probably have seen every episode of The Simpsons from season one to at least nine at least five times. If I had to guess. Yeah. And, you know, as someone, you know, you guys are sort of been with me as a majority of my career has continued on from when, you know, She-Hulk to Rick and Morty to this. So like I can look at my resume and see what kind of stuff I’m into, which is like the sci fi stuff of it all. Mm hmm. But like, one thing that I thought really sort of stuck out with the Futurama writers in particular. Sharon by David Cohen. Super, super, super funny, talented guy, is that they really are like a nerds nerd. Like, it’s the only show I’ve worked on where like multiple people in the room had PhDs and they would spend 30 to 40 minutes a day trying to make a joke about a very specific math theorem that would be on the back of a chalkboard that I just couldn’t understand. But they they were really passionate about.


Rosie Knight This is like you in the She-Hulk Room.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yes.


Rosie Knight Telling people about dead panels and they’re doing it about like quantum physics.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, exactly. This is me pulling out my Daredevil comic, but it’s them talking about like what? How many angles are in an actual triangle? But that triangle now is going to be whatever that there’s a very specific geometry joke in the first episode that, yeah, they spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how exactly this shape would form. And that was very much every episode of that show was like the two or three PhD guys, you know, trying to get their very, very nice jokes while everyone else is like, Yeah, but would have been disrupting like a space, space banana, like stuff like that. It was.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It was very fun. And it also it was just so cool, you know, seeing how the soup is made, how the sauce is made for this type of show.  Like, you know, we were lucky in that half the room was had like these old, old school, OG guys and like the other half were people our age. So like, you know, we get we got to I mean and as you’ll see in later episodes really add like sort of our perspective on things and seeing how, you know, sort of like it’s such a fun mash mash thing, like here’s a reference to like a sixties, like bubblegum commercial and now we’re going to have a reference to Black Mirror. Like, that’s basically what the shows would be. Yeah, Scary Mirror. There’s a lot of fun stuff like that.


Rosie Knight One of the things that I found really interesting about this and She-Hulk and obviously Rick and Morty is in this space too, but like, you know, the She-Hulk finale and then the opening of Futurama, it’s like Super Mario TV about TV and TV writing. What is it about those? Like, you’re always kind of in that space and in that mindset and it’s like a very new no. A lot of TV is doing it, even though Futurama and Simpsons have always been self-referential. So could you talk a little bit about that? Because I thought it was crazy, like just how many them I can like. Humor similarities it shared with the She-Hulk finale.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Oh, that’s funny. I haven’t actually thought about that, but I think, you know, I think all that stuff can sort of be traced back to even like The Simpsons. Like that was the first time I ever remember as a kid watching a show being like, Oh, people write this like, yeah, like, not even like just one person, like multiple people. Like, I just, I think there’s actually like an early Simpsons episode where Bart and Lisa become like a writing team and they, they write for like Itchy and Scratchy and they make Grandpa’s Grandpa Simpson be the actual adult. But like, there’s even, like a running riff in that between like Harvard writers and like, yellow writers and like a beep. And I, you know, the thing that existed. So, like, I definitely think that was like sort of the early, like the early, like genesis of that is like seeing these sort of behind the scenes very, very, very niche jokes for like a very, you know, for a job for a job where even now there are only like what, 10,000 members of the WGA?


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar So looking like get like that as a joke for not a lot of people, but like that’s the first, that was the first show I remember watching being like, Oh, writers are like things that exist. And also The Simpsons make a point of like at least once a season making fun of television writers.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar You know, Yeah, Futurama was, was lucky in that we had, you know, Patrick Verrone who was who was like the previous WGA president. So like, he’s the one that actually has a line in the show that, like, I died, I died doing what I hated like. I think that’s just like a time honored tradition that I was lucky enough to stumble on to, you know?


Jason Concepcion How like how far into the process would you be before you start to see, like, visuals? You start to see any kind of generated stuff to let you know, like what the scenes might be looking like.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar This is, I will say, future, first of all, is all we had. So we had a cast and crew screening like maybe two weeks ago, and one of the animation directors gave a really lovely speech. But at the end of it he was like, Our job is to see a script and be like, This is impossible. And then I had a conversation with David going to be like, Is it that impossible? And then we have to make it possible. So yeah, we, we, we honestly saw no visuals. It was pretty much everything we wrote was like basically what would make it into it? And there was another running joke that that they would always have. It was like the four worst words you never want to hear, which is we need signed jokes. So like anytime you see like a product or like a sign or a billboard, we would spend half a day making like 15 different art of what that joke could be. And then we emailed them and then they would pick the best one. So like it truly was like you’d read a script in like they would be like, there’s a tumbleweed that blows by. And on the background there’s a sign that says, like this. So, like it truly is like you see how much work the writers put into it, but then also how it’s sort of hand in hand with like the animation team roughhouse a rough draft with the animation studio. And they did. They’ve been the animation studio for Futurama for forever. But like a lot of it is just like off the Dome from like that writers and then you’ll sort of get like some more fun stuff when you get like animatics back, like you’ll see sort of like the art, the artistry that the artist bring to it as far as, like, jokes, like. Mm hmm. Well, this episode hasn’t come out, so I can’t say it, but, like, there’s just some some stuff that they add to it that that’s like you never. It was not a joke, but that was written down. But they added like a nice, fun visual joke. So it was. It was. It was really it was really cool seeing the stages from like the animatics, like the colored version to like the stick visual versions and seeing like it actually come back a full fledged thing and now watching it on, on, you know, on the company Hulu who want to pay the writers decent wages but they should.


Jason Concepcion You posted two screenshots recently on your account on the social media platform now called X and we see from these screenshots that you’ve done it again, you’ve managed to get yourself into a frame of Futurama much as you appeared on screen in the She-Hulk television program. How how do you do it? How do you keep doing it and how did you do it this time?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I completely lucked out in that, you know, the finale for She-Hulk, you know, she comes to the writers room and Jessica Gao, the showrunner, was like, Hey, do you want to come on set? You can come on set because we’re in the middle of COVID, you gotta be an extra. I was like, Yeah, I can see in the background is like, who I got to play is like, You’ve got to play yourself. I was like, Well, I can do that all day long. So it’s great. But for this, like the pilot episode originally, like they go to the writers room and it’s Patrick and there’s another guy ahead and Aja, his name is Eric. He’s like another old school writer. But that was really it. And then, you know, we were like, we had we had got like an animatic version in like, which is like the black and white version. And then they, it was like, Hey, new writers, can you just, like, send a couple of pictures of yourself to the staff If you guys want to be in the TV show? If not, you’ll have to like immediately. I made like a folder with like all my stuff. Like, if you notice, like if you I’m sure Jason  has seen it. But like the blue sweatshirt I have is just my L.A. sweatshirt that I wear all the time. Like there’s a gold chain. Like that’s my it’s like people at home can see it, but it’s my Black Panther chains, exact same chain I wear. And she whole episode, like, is truly just like, Hey, just send a bunch of pictures and like, we’ll make a Simpsons last Futurama version of you, which is like, honestly, like, that was the dream. Like, I’ve always wanted to be like, in, like one of these cartoons. So like getting that, shooting that off in, like, like a month later I got back, like a little picture of me next to Fry is like a scale thing and like, my know was like, Can you make me taller than Fry? That’s all. That’s the only thing that I can. So, like, I would like to get a three peat way after the after the strike instead of and were paid some livable wages. Like I would love to continue the the trend of sneaking , of weaseling my way into a cameo into a show that I’m working on.


Rosie Knight Yeah, that’s also, are you now ready to be killed off in a future show? Because that’s the joy of I always think about Grant Morrison, who obviously famously put themselves into Animal Man. And then like as someone in DC Universe, we’re just like, We’re killing him. Yeah, Grant exists in this universe, so now we think they’re a character. So are you ready for your likeness to be used in nefarious ways?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar And welcome, Welcome. I welcome my animated death. Please let it be a swift death. I would love nothing more than to be, like, blown up by, like, Bender and like an episode of Futurama.


Jason Concepcion So you have managed to slip yourself in through the fourth wall into the scenes of both She-Hulk and Futurama and. I can’t help but notice as a as a reader of your fine work in the comic book pages, that it appears that you’ve also slipped your good friend, Jessica Gao, into the pages of Miles Morales as a police officer, as the police police officer, Agent Gal who’s out here just trying to rein in Miles Morales is shine given an opportunity, trying to, you know, is is always like one inch from bringing him in in cuffs.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, it becomes like a running joke at this point where she’s always like, I’m about to bust your ass, but somehow she gets out of it. You know, it really wasn’t too dissimilar from our relationship in the shock room. Like I’m about to. I need to keep on the straight, narrow Ziglar. And I would weasel my way out of it. You know, I need. I need this outline now. Yeah, totally got to do it. And I get to do like a daily like, yeah, I have a fun running theme here. Like, I like to put my friends in my comic books and it’s got to be what better way to, like, have a nice insult jab at my good friend Jessica Gavin, making her a cop as trying to take down the hero of the book. And it’s constantly going to be a thorn in the side.


Rosie Knight That extremely shady. That’s an incredibly good friend shade. And what was like this to me? We’ve been talking a lot about like struck companies and the strikes and how you’re picking and stuff. What’s it like to work on a show like this that’s basically like a dream gig or something that you love and then launch it and then have it come out like during the strike? What’s that kind of duality been like?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s a very I don’t know. I don’t know if. Jason I know if you had another I remember your showok came out Pre Strike. Yeah


Rosie Knight No, Primo cameout,  when it came ou, WGA strike was on.


Jason Concepcion You know, like a week before the WGA strike really hit. And yeah, we couldn’t go to our premiere, for instance, because the action had started. Yeah. Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar So, I mean, I’m sure you sort of felt a similar way where like you put. Yeah, for me, literally like 56 weeks a year plus worth of work into a project. So like, you know, we were supposed to have to just go to Comic-Con for like a big launch where I saw pictures that seemed like the launch was still there. We obviously couldn’t go. It it it’s sort of twofold. One, it’s a bummer that, like, I can’t post more and share more, but also like, you know, I not sharing a tweet or a text or a or  a IG post is like small potatoes compared to like what you’re actually fighting for. Like and also the WGA where they did carve out like, yes, you can post up, but you can’t do it directly under the right of the permission of yeah, a struck company which is like a way could like post those things or come on this show like I wasn’t asked by like Disney to come on or anything like that but it you know it sucks for like, especially like the actors and stuff who like, you know.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar They came back after 20 years to do this stuff, but they can’t promote it and they didn’t. Fantastic work. Like the cast and crew who you know for their unions like they can’t post about it like it definitely definitely is like a huge bummer because like you know again, we did have a premiere. We had like a cast and crew screening, which was, you know, definitely more intimate. It was cool in that regard. But like, you know, for for, for She-Hulk, they had like, you know, the fucking beta roped out in there like cameras everywhere and like, Oh, I understand why these things exist. Like, yes, this to, like, roll out this big thing and like, blah, blah, blah, but also to celebrate their celebration. The hundreds and sometimes thousands of people that work on these projects. So, you know, it’s it’s bittersweet. Like I’m bummed that we can’t enjoy it more. But I also you know, I that’s part of the the the handshake agreement when you enter to an union is that like for solidarity, like we can’t do these things. So like, that’s why me and Jason are out here on the lines that 90 degree, 80%, 80 40% humidity, you know yeah.


Jason Concepcion With Primo you know it’s it’s easy for you know amongst the writers to just not tweet not. Yeah that’s that’s fine.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah. Also the writers aren’t really putting butts in seats you know no one’s come in.


Jason Concepcion You are not really putting butts in seats.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Execs like what’s Cody Ziglar got to say about Futurama.


Jason Concepcion You know and with Primo is interesting because you know the writers went on strike and SAG was still negotiating at that time. So the writers got to do the promo. But who I really felt bad for was Shea, who created the show, and it’s based on his life and he put a ton of heart into it. Not to mention, you know, it’s his family members are represented there in the show. And then so to not be able to promote it, I felt bad for him that was that that I felt badly about because so much work and heart went into that. And to not be able to be like, hey, we really we really brought you something here. We really tried to to make something special and to not be able to do that when you know you’re so attached to it, created it, etc.. I that made me feel badly. But otherwise, it’s been very easy to not tweet about stuff.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And also the critically acclaimed Primo. Like the reviews themselves, their reviews have been promoting the show.


Jason Concepcion I’ve been very fortunate that way.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, I guess to echo Jason’s it’s and as it’s it’s never been an easier time not to want to use Twitter than the past thirteen weeks, so


Jason Concepcion It’s very easy.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Sort of came at the perfect time.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Elon. Something you never say, but I appreciate you making it easy.


Jason Concepcion And I just know right now that Wendy Boscarino, who was recently in Los Angeles doing like a charm offensive and all the big agencies trying to get, you know, celebs to ask about X or to say anything about X would be like, X is so cool. You just know that Linda was talking to to whoever would be able to give them, allow them to say X going to give it to you and use a snippet of the song.


Rosie Knight They wish.


Jason Concepcion To promote. They wish. You just know that that was how can we get X going to give it to you as part of our promo for the social media platform? X For me, yeah.


Rosie Knight I think people would have butned the headquarters down if they did it. Like the love for that is that you just couldn’t do it. Like, you know, I’m very glad that she failed that that I mean does anyone even call X? I don’t have a Twitter account anymore, so I don’t know. But are people still calling it Twitter? I’d be proud if they are.


Jason Concepcion I believe it’s still it’s still early days, but let the brand with you can.


Rosie Knight Give you a chance.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, let’s give it a chance and let it cook, folks. Give it a shot.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I mean, I mean this is not I’m sure someone plenty people have had this take already, but like, it just seems it’s so comic. Like, it’s just like, where is Charles Xavier? I like this is like.


Rosie Knight Literally.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s such an easy 1 to 1 with like, comic book and like, like the reality of like this does not make sense in like, reality, like naming a company actually seems so cartoonishly nefarious that it’s hard to, like, defy the sort.


Rosie Knight SEO’s must be so bad. I can’t even imagine how much money they had to pay on the SEO to make that come up on the first page of Google.


Jason Concepcion Well, yeah, when you when you search when you search Twitter X comes up. So they’ve somehow.


Rosie Knight They paid a lot of money.


Jason Concepcion To figure it out. But listen, this is why you and I are not business geniuses. When you have a brand that is instantly recognizable to billions, what you want to do actually is you want to change it, to change it to something completely different that’s.


Rosie Knight Not at all synonymous with what you do.


Jason Concepcion Right? And you want to just switch it up that way and you will never understand. I will never understand that.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar 3-D, 4-D Chess baby.


Rosie Knight 4-Ds. So many 5-D Chess. Five Double D Chess.


Jason Concepcion Solve for x. How about that? You can use that.


Rosie Knight Use that one for free.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, use that one for free. Solve for x. Can you solve for x? I can see it on the bus stop right now.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar X marks the spot and it’s like a little pirate’s. Oh, you can have that one for free, Musky


Rosie Knight Guys, Guys, guys. You’re meant to be. You’re meant to be on strike. Oh, yeah. We freed three great gems. Guys, don’t be giving away free gems.


Jason Concepcion X ray Vision will be back.


Speaker 1 <AD>


Jason Concepcion And we’re back. Let’s talk about the surprise drop of the Invincible Season two episode Atom Eve Special episode Prequel episode. The the origin story of Atom Eve on the struck Amazon Prime.


Rosie Knight Struck, struck, struck.


Jason Concepcion Network. I was shocked to see this pop up in my in my feed. I immediately watched it and I got to tell you, folks. Invincible still got it.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s still slaps.


Rosie Knight The way that the animation team make this show.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah.


Rosie Knight Look instantly familiar to people who watch, like, anime. Yeah, but also, like, completely different. Like that fight scene with Atom Eve and the kind of the big fight. And so I won’t spoil kind of who she’s fighting with, but like, yes, the way they use camera movement in that it feels like a game changer. Like it’s like so different.


Jason Concepcion It’s very very animated.


Rosie Knight And there’s all this this camera movement, the sweeps, like the action in this show is just unreal. And it’s nice to see them. You know, she still has a very invincible back story, very depressing and violent, because that’s the nature of invincible. But it’s nice to see her get a little bit of character work. Like I could see them do this for most of the characters. Invincible. Yeah, Invincible. And I would love to see it.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah. I kept thinking that, like, I could just watch a series of just these off characters that, yeah, I guess Adam. Atom Eve gets a little bit. She gets more work than a lot of them, but like, I could watch, like, a Monster Girl. Like.


Rosie Knight Exactly.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar A movie or whatever, You know, I could watch Rex Blue’s like, origins to really watch any of those, or even, like, I don’t want to spoil it, but like, you know, the yeah, the, like I’m really excited to see like, for those who have read the Invincible comics, like, yeah, for me, for my money, like the ending coda for like the ending like 2030 pages of Invincible or like to me is like probably the best ending to any superhero comic I’ve ever read. Ever. Yeah. And like, I could fully just watch.


Jason Concepcion The best Kirkman It’s.


Rosie Knight So, yeah, it’s absolutely the best. .


Jason Concepcion The absolute best Kirkman.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s like you just like you can’t be like I could watch fully just 2 hours of that code. Like I could just watch that and forever.


Rosie Knight But I think that one, yeah, it’s like one of the craziest things too, is like, you know, you have to iconic. You have Corey Walker, you have Ryan Notly.


Jason Concepcion Yeah.


Rosie Knight And like the way that they translate like this looks like an Invincible comic.


Jason Concepcion They capture the look.


Rosie Knight Doesn’t like but it also looks like the best of the DCEU, but it also looks like anime or like especially it’s so visually pleasing. Like I understand why when they surprise drop this like everyone lost their shit because it also is like it still has all the things people like about Invincible is dead. By the time you get to the end. There’s some really horrific shit going down. Yeah, like, and they really do some grotesque stuff. But it has that ha has that punch. And then you get this really fun. Like what’s Mark been up to Stinger and that also somehow manages to really hit even though it’s just like it’s mostly a bit. But the end has this like little heft. Yeah, I just thought this was so good and obviously surprised dropping it probably because of the strike just to bring it up again. Like Gillespie really couldn’t have people out there promoting this, but like, it, it was really good and I hope people got paid. I’m really glad that first Invincible season blew my mind because if I’m not mistaken, that was Amazon and Skybound essentially creating like an animation studio. I think. I think that it was like more like produced by them. And the idea was to keep making other animated stuff and it’s just like, so it’s one of good usually like there’s no one else right now is making superhero animation that compares to this. Yeah.


Jason Concepcion It does something really great, which is and The Boys does this too. And I think, you know, whether consciously or unconsciously struck company, Amazon Prime Studios has kind of backed into a brand with regards to its superhero stuff, which is this kind of deconstruction of Superman of superheroes. And the great thing about Invincible, what I loved about season one, and it’s right there front and center and the Atom Eve prequel, is that on the one hand, they are deconstructing the myths, right? And and showing you the kind of like brutality and the very creaky, like moral standing of superheroes. But also they’re giving you the magic of what is great about like capes in general.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Also like it’s like, I mean, this prequel is all about. A girl wanting to be special, wanting to find that thing that is special about her. And then that classic comic book thing of you get the thing that makes you special and then you are rejected for it. Yeah, yeah.


Rosie Knight And yeah. It;s very Peter Parker.


Jason Concepcion It is. And it is endlessly, emotionally impactful, at least for me. That is the thing that keeps me coming back to comics. Like when I get a whiff of that, when I get like a hint of that kind of friction, that emotional impact in a story, I’m like, Oh, yeah, this is this is what I felt like, you know, originally reading comics as a kid. And this prequel does it and it does it on multiple levels, too. It’s not just like Atom Eve getting rejected when she shows a friend like what is special? Sorry to spoil.


Rosie Knight It’s a light spoiler.


Jason Concepcion Light spoiler. But then you also get that that that dichotomy of of. What happens when the the power the hero is esthetically beautiful as compared to the kind of more monstrous villain. And what happens when that villain is warped by the fact that they are rejected by society because they don’t look like everybody else. It’s just really good, just really good comic book stuff, even though they are tearing it simultaneously, like tearing apart the troops of comic book stuff, they’re also giving you the tropes in in equal measure, and it just is really good.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I think something they did really well in the first season that they echo here in like a different way is kind of like the relationship between like Mark and his dad is revealed to be like a very abusive relationship in its own way. And that was really interestingly done in the first season. But the way they dealt with that here with like Eve, Atom’a dad and the way he’s like kind of emotionally abusive and neglectful, there are like these moments that just absolutely broke me. Like there’s a moment where she’s late for her own birthday and he’s already eaten a slice of cake. And now, just like she just says, she’s like, You ate my cake. And she and it just it says so much. And they do such a good job of bothering to add nuance and detail and emotional backstory in a way that a lot of other superhero TV doesn’t get the time to. But we do get the time to do in comics. Like Invincible is so big, it went on for so long, so there’s lots of space for nuance and conversation about emotions. We often don’t get that when you’re stripping it down for TV, but I feel like in this special especially, they expanded on something they were already doing really well in the first season with these tiny moments that just hit like super hard.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, this show’s really cracked the balance between the superhero big punching people through wall stuff, but like, you really care about the family dynamics. Like any time you go, you see an exterior of a house and you go on your side, you know you’re about to have your fucking heart ripped open.


Jason Concepcion That’s a great point. It is not. You would think, Oh, I just watched someone get their head torn off in a crazy fight scene. And now we’re heading to the to the, you know, a scene of of domestic quietude. That’s not it. Like I almost clench up more when I see the exterior of that house. Yeah, You just know it’s going to be an emotional battlefield in there


Rosie Knight Absolutely.


Jason Concepcion This scene where we’re Eve. It shows her powers to her friend and then her friend is just like so freaked out. Was just so sad to be so sad that it’s just like they’ve done it again, folks. They’ve really done it again. And then the action is unbelievable.


Rosie Knight Like, that’s the wildest thing to have, like action that feels groundbreaking and different for Western animation, but also to have emotional heft to actually make you care about the characters is very impressive.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah, Yeah. The fight scene between them, they call the Guardians of the Globe, is that that the invincible.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, the Guardians of the Globe in the end the Lizard Squadron.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar The Lizard Squadron. And like, you know, that scene is like, I’ve seen that fight a thousand times in, like, more and in like the animated version of Superman and all that stuff. But like, even having the added edge of, like, in any moment, OMNI-MAN could just fucking snap, whoever.


Jason Concepcion Oh, my God.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar This queen, lizard, whoever. Tatiana Tatiana Maslany plays a character like any moment he could, like just snapper it half and like, seeing that subdued, like, quiet rage, knowing that he could do that at any moment. And it’s such an extra texture of like fear and like stakes to these fights when normally you’d be like, Yeah, right. We caught the robbers, we saved the day. But like having that little bit of edge that the invincible universe brings, I think also adds like a sort of like subtle tension to all these fight scenes.


Rosie Knight Now, that’s such a good point because like, by the end of Invincible season one, you know the truth about Omni-man. But when we start this because it’s a prequel, he is still in that like Superman esque role. Yeah, So you have that dramatic irony of knowing who he really is, but seeing him positioned as like the hero in this fight and then learning that he is directly connected to the the origins of Artemis, even some strange ways, Like it’s really smartly done. And you’re right, it does add this level of like fear as you, the viewer, knowing what he can really do. Mm hmm. Whereas the one that’s agreed or thinks he’s, you know, the hero.


Jason Concepcion Just an incredible and absolutely terrifying villain. Omni-man. Yeah. And I will say, you know, in our in our Discord, there is kind of a conversation going last couple of days about. Why can’t people get Superman right? Why can’t they figure out the tone and just listening to this conversation right now? I think part of it is that if you’re not a fan of Superman and you’re not reading the Superman comics on the daily, it is a lot easier to engage with this with the potential scariness of a Superman figure.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Through Omni-Man. Through The Boys, right, of this character’s insanely powerful. But like, you’re wondering, what if you just decides to not be a good guy?


Rosie Knight Yeah, well, this is does anymore.


Jason Concepcion Yeah, I mean, this is the. This is the genesis of so many DC stories.


Rosie Knight In the James Gunn movi, Brightburn. That’s like Superman was evil, you know?


Jason Concepcion And with Superman, there’s never even that question. Well, you never. That’s the thing about Superman is no one ever wonders. Oh, fuck. What if he. What if he goes bad? Because you just. He would never happen with him. But I think that’s what makes it kind of hard, is that in we’re just primed, like as a culture now to be like, there’s got to be something else with that guy. There’s got to be a dark side, you know, with a character like that with. And that’s what makes Omni-man so fucking scary, is he seems like the perfect dad, the perfect hero, the hero that Earth needs. And really he’s like a fucking genocidal mass murderer. Yeah. And is just barely keeping his rage under control. Yeah, it’s terrifying. Shit. Terrifying.


Rosie Knight Yeah. I think you make such a good point, too. It’s almost like the 80, you know, the eight decade plus of, like, Superman stories and super stories. We are living with all of the ripple effects of all the different versions. So for every, like, all star Superman, you have that dark fear version or the Elseworlds version or the what if another he landed in another country, you know, like the Red Sun version, Like there’s all these different ideas of the fear of him. But I do think you’re right. I, I still truly believe like Superman, he has a good mom, a good dad. They raised him right. They loved him. And he’s just a really good person because of that. And also, can we give Malkin the props that she deserves because she is comics most powerful graphic designer. She designed National House and that became like the iconography. Know the world, you know, like, I know, I know. It means hope. It’s from Krypton, sure, But I believe Mark Kent is the world’s greatest graphic designer.


Jason Concepcion I’ll agree with you.


Rosie Knight That, to me, is like I hope that whatever version of Superman we get understands that because his inherent goodness is actually the most exciting thing. Yeah, but I think that’s because it’s like grim.


Jason Concepcion Becomes subversive now. Yeah, to have a character that’s  that good. Yeah.


Rosie Knight Yeah, I would love to see it. Well.


Jason Concepcion Blown away. Can’t wait for the next season of Invincible. Up next, Nerd Out.


Rosie Knight In today’s Nerd Out, where you tell us what you love and why, a theory you are excited to share, or a quick question we can answer. Andrew asked for a little comic book rec, and I believe that this is the perfect time for Zig to be on the call. Like, if we can finally try and promote our manga and anime agenda onto Jason again. So Andrew asks. Hi, Jason and Rosie, and I will add Zig, I am a big fan of your podcast, currently burning through your stuff to get up to most recent episodes. As a newbie to comics, do you have a comic or two that you would recommend me? And then he says this. I’m a big fan of anime if it helps color my palate. Most recently I’ve been into Demon Slayer, Haiku and the slice of life anime. Katara lives alone based on those. Is there a comic you would recommend? I will say yes, because I you are not my enemy, which means that based on manga and comic manga is one of the longest running forms of comics in the whole world. And I would say I love Maison Ikkoku by Rumiko Takahashi, viz, is doing like an unbelievable rerelease of those right now. It’s one of the best slice of life comics ever. It’s much funnier than Kotara Lives Alone, which is incredible, but very sad. It’s very wacky. It’s quite raunchy because that was Rumico’s whole vibe. And it’s about a woman who is a young widow who takes over a boarding house, and it’s about her and like her eclectic group of friends. I love that. I would also say, like, if you like haiku, probably you should be reading ping pong, which is like one of the greatest manga series of all time by Taiyo Matsumoto, who’s like, really great. And the title will give you a hint of what it’s about, but it’s about like a table tennis league in high school and it’s so good and it’s like one of the best sports manga I’ve ever read. So I would say those are like the two that I would really go for of those.


Jason Concepcion Zig?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar I want to say based off this, this is mainly coming from the demon slayer and the guitar lives at home. I think for us this is like more of this. Definitely an older, an older one. But I think if you’re looking for something in the line of Demon Slayer, I think definitely think the original Yu Yu Hakusho.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Manga. And even the anime would be a great a great throughline for that. Even maybe even Chainsaw Man. Like it’s not Demon Slayer, but it’s a bunch of fun, fun, high octane action and actually even Jujutsu Kaisen. Those are probably three that I would recommend if you’re looking for like supernatural stuff. I think some fun like, like sort of elevated slice of life stuff is a I think Spy Family is a very fun one to get in my family and Sakamoto Days is another fun like slice of life. Like a little bit of action added into it. Like, I think those like, were pretty good. Pretty good places to start.


Rosie Knight Yeah. And you know what? We always talk about this one. Like, we’ve talked about it a lot because it’s so great. But I think if you’re looking for something that’s like, not anime and manga in that space, we talk a lot about Fantasy Sports by Sam Bosma, which is like so amazing. Yeah, that’s definitely in that sports manga influence space, but it’s like a really different style and the comics are beautiful. That kind of huge.


Jason Concepcion Beautiful.


Rosie Knight Hardcover. Like they’re really nice to just have in your house. I will also say Akira, Dark Horse has rereleased them all. I’m rereading it from the beginning and that is just like every page. You’re just like, What the fuck was the turtle on? This is like one of the best. This is like one of the best things that’s ever been made. So yeah, lots and lots of recommendations. Jason Is anything immediately jump to mind?


Jason Concepcion I am just happy to be taking all of this in.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion I have just recently finished Akira, which I have in myself and I absolutely love it. I echo the Sam Basma drop and I’m just taking notes just like Andrew hopefully, I would imagine is Andrew What a what a perfect episode to have your question answered on.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Can I slide in one more liquidation?


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Jason Concepcion Yes, please.


Rosie Knight Always.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar This is a comic book that is very heavily influenced by manga, but Do A Powerbomb.


Rosie Knight YesDaniel Warren Johnson.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar It’s such a fun. It’s just it’s just like pro-wrestling and like another dimension. And everyone in that dimension doesn’t know that wrestling is fake on earth. So it’s just, it’s just that and it’s very very fun.


Rosie Knight And recent Eisner winner.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Yeah.


Rosie Knight Won the Eisner this year. I will say, Jason, you are probably one of only like 5% of people on earth who’ve actually read all of Akira. So congratulations to you. I’m hoping to speak now. I have all the books I’m rereading, and I never had the last 16 issues because I have all the collected, I have all the colored ones. So I’m like very excited to to finally be able to fully read it all in order. So well done to you. 5%. Thank you, Andrew, so much. If you have any theories, passions, or quick questions you want to share, hit us up at Xray@crooked.com. Instructions in the show notes.


Jason Concepcion That’s it for us. Rosie, Zig, any plugs?


Rosie Knight Zig, do you have anything to plug?


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar You know pay writers what they owe.


Jason Concepcion Yes.


Rosie Knight Yes.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar Keep striking those companies baby.


Rosie Knight Yeah.


Cody ‘Zig’ Ziglar That and  I guess if you see me on the picket line, say what’s up.


Rosie Knight Yeah. Nice. Remember we say every week, but you can go to the picket lines, you can follow WGA East or you can follow WGA West and you can see where the picket lines are. You can go in support, you can take people food and water, and you can donate to that entertainment community fund. Also, I will say I do have a book that you can preorder now. I did not write the whole book, but I wrote some entries in. It is called The Screen Traveler’s Guide, and it is very fun. It’s like a travel guide for people who love movies, and it features all different kinds of incredible facts and stories about movies that you love. I got to cover some of my all time favorite movies and the Dragon, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, North by Northwest. I also got paid for the first time to write about Twilight, so I’m incredibly proud of that and happy. But it covers everything from like Star Wars to superheroes to classic movies to like Prey. I wrote about like the Predator franchise and prey and where they film that. So it’s really cool. There’s a bunch of brilliant writers like Ty Gooden and involved, so that’s really fun. And if you love movies, they’ll probably be a great thing. So you can preorder that now.


Jason Concepcion Catch the next episode of X-ray Vision Friday, August 4th for a mailbag episode.


Rosie Knight Send those questions.


Jason Concepcion In and send us the questions.


Rosie Knight And you can watch full episodes of the podcast on YouTube. Also, check out our Twitter @XRVPod and our Discord to hang out with loads of cool fans and talk about cool stuff like how they could get Superman right.


Jason Concepcion Five star ratings. Five star reviews. We need them. We gotta havedd them. You got to give them to us. Here’s one from EW713L five stars for Jason and Rosie. I discovered Jason through the official House of the Dragon podcast and wanted more. This podcast has been such a delight. Jason and Rosie expertly follow and expand on and Complete so many of the TV series and movies that my family and I watch together. I love all the excitement and discussion they bring to each episode. Thank you so much EW713.


Rosie Knight Thank you.


Jason Concepcion X-ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin and executive produced by me, Jason Concepcion. Our editing and sound design is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Video production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaewski. Social Media by Ewa Okulate and Caroline Dunphy. Thank you to Brian Vasquez for our theme music. See you next time.


Rosie Knight Bye.