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October 25, 2023
Keep It
"Fo Shizz By Us" w. Josh Sharp & Aaron Jackson

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss Britney’s memoir The Woman In Me, Martin Scorsese’s Killers of the Flower Moon, Halloween costumes, Ryan Reynolds films, and more. Aaron Jackson and Josh Sharp join to discuss their new film Dicks: The Musical.




Ira Madison III And we are back for an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Irdison, the Fourth.


Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel, still the first. Now, why are you the fourth today?


Ira Madison III I just feel like, you know, a new era.


Louis Virtel Oh, I see. I have to tell you, if I hear the word era one more time, I am going to go on a murder rampage. Did you know that?


Ira Madison III Is it not even Taylor related? People are just saying era a lot.


Louis Virtel I mean, it’s always that. But I have to say, the Taylor era thing, they just aren’t very distinct eras to me. I mean, are we talking about like album covers, basically. I don’t know if those are really eras.


Ira Madison III Hmm. Well, I know who you want to mention right now, and let’s not.


Louis Virtel She’ll come up again. Don’t worry about that.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Not if I can help it this week. I feel like everyone has always been just like I’m in a new era. I’m doing this. A new era. Let me tell you something about the Eras tour. We’re going to be discussing Killers of the Flower Moon.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III This week. Did I need to hear that heffainging while I’m trying to watch my movie?


Louis Virtel Oh, I know.


Ira Madison III AMC 19th Street, East six. I’m calling you out. We need to get some soundproofing. And it’s not even just soundproofing. I was. I ran to the. I did take a bathroom break during the film. Three and a half hours.


Louis Virtel Right. Okay. I’ll allow it.


Ira Madison III When I returned, there was when I turned from my very quick bathroom break, the door to the theater across from me was open, and I tried to close it, but they had the door stop there, and it was just too difficult. And I was like, I’m going to miss more of the movie if I don’t run back. But it’s just this this bitch blaring through the hallways. And I was like, Well, maybe if someone closed the door.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. That does feel like an easy choice to make. I’m sure it’s a fire hazard or something. I don’t know what, but the by the way, when people have said this, I don’t think I’ve ever heard another movie bleed through the walls before when I watched a movie. So I’m not particularly sorry that that’s happening to people.


Ira Madison III I feel like for most of the theaters that I visited, like if you saw it at The Grove or somewhere else, and the AMC I usually go to is maybe like Lincoln Square, like if I’m in the IMAX or something, you’re not going to hear it. Emirates more insulate it. But the AMC on 90th Street that’s constructed by paper.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right, right. I just saw the movie, Nyad, yesterday, which has Annette Bening and Jodie Foster, and I expected it to be well, I expected it to be basically Adult Dolphin Tale, like, oh, we’re going to it’s going to be a tale of perseverance. It’s going to be cute or whatever. And guess what it was. And by the way, Annette Bening in this movie plays just like a, you know, a real life person, Diana Nyad, who is a celebrity, basically, she would be on like Johnny Carson and stuff, and they show it in the movie. She did all these swimming feats and then in her sixties, eventually swam from Cuba to Florida. And, you know, it was this incredible triumph. Some of her claims and achievements are disputed. And that’s an ongoing conversation that I’m seeing online. But anyway, in this movie, Annette Bening, who of course, still does not have an Oscar, plays somebody who I think everybody in their lives knows, like a like a staunch, obstinate, butch. Gym teacher vibe. And yet, weirdly, we don’t see that a lot in movies, particularly with women playing them. I feel like this is going to be a secretly very relatable movie and it’s going to get it’s going to gain.


Ira Madison III Matilda.


Louis Virtel Who in Matilda? The Trunchbull?


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III Okay. I’m sure that she was many young girls Lesbian awakening.


Louis Virtel Oh, sure. First of all, the fit. Let’s talk about that. That’s how  ahigh misses dresses. Okay.


Ira Madison III And the chokey, that is. That is where you’re putting heterosexuality.


Louis Virtel The Chokey is one of the great words of all time. Even though Roald Dahl is so fucking sick, it’s wrong. Truly, children. I always say Roald Dahl’s the first time a kid says the words, What the fuck to himself? Half the shit in those books is just like, unspeakably shitty.


Ira Madison III Yeah. The BFG was a real. Experience as a child writing that book. So. But he is friendly.


Louis Virtel For now. Right.


Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, Halloween is coming up.


Louis Virtel Right. It’s on my mind.


Ira Madison III And it is it on your mind because you wear the same costume every two years. You recycle them.


Louis Virtel Well, let me tell you something about the costume I have coming up is a variation on that theme. And I’m concerned because I realize that even videogame characters in their cartoony outfits can be considered cultural appropriation. So I had to find a version of this outfit that is not that I got the the, well, to give it away, the Streetfighter Alpha version where Chun-li wears the jumpsuit and not the version where she wears the Chinese dress. Right. Let’s call that Chung Sam. And I’m I’m realizing like, Oh, yeah, that is pretty. You have to watch out for that. It’s just like, No, I don’t want to go out there being like, I’m wearing a Chinese dress. Can you believe it? You know.


Ira Madison III I mean, I feel like I’m always chun-li because I love being the bad guy.


Louis Virtel Okay, You know, you’re taunting me again. You know, I hate box. She’s a good guy. You can. She’s a player. She’s a playable character, to put it in the parlance of Gen Z. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Okay. I like Chun-li for you. This is. This is a switch up.


Louis Virtel Right? Well, it’s also just like she’s the character I actually played as growing up. I was never Gale or Ryu. I was once upon a time. Imagine choosing those characters. They’re slow and mean.


Ira Madison III That’s fair. You know, people always say that the gays gravitate towards Chun-li and I did always gravitate towards strongly. But there were some men that I loved. I loved Vega.


Louis Virtel Well, no, Vega.


Ira Madison III Very queer quoted.


Louis Virtel Excuse me. Now, that is a performer. That is a delicious young lady. That is a salacious young woman. Yes. He wore the mask, he had the braid and yet was like slick and fast. Very queer coded. Very queer coded.


Ira Madison III And who is that? Who’s that Hulk character with the bad hair?


Louis Virtel Blanca The green one.


Ira Madison III Blanca. Yes. Okay. We love Blanca. I loved the African with the long legs. Very racist.


Louis Virtel Hold on. You’re not talking about D.J., the Jamaican character. You’re. Are you talking about Dhalsim, Who is from India.


Ira Madison III Dhalsim. Yes. Yeah. I’m sorry, Indian. Never mind.


Louis Virtel Wwith the skull necklaces, a little dicey. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Street Fighter was very culturally.


Louis Virtel Questionable.


Ira Madison III All over the place.


Louis Virtel And yet it’s also the reason some of us know any geography whatsoever. So I have to think that. Ultimately.


Ira Madison III Street Fighter and Where in the World Is Carmen Santiago, saved my life in school.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Now, this is interesting because SAG has new rules about what you can if you’re in SAG, what Halloween costumes, you can dress as technically because you don’t want to be promoting struc material.


Ira Madison III Yeah. So SAG-AFTRA posted a flier with guidelines for observing the holiday without undermining the ongoing strike, which, of course, hit its 100th day on Friday.


Louis Virtel Wow. Coming right up on the Writers Guild members, I’m kind of surprised and yet. Okay, fine.


Ira Madison III The union instructed members to avoid dressing up as characters from strut content and instead opt for generalized characters and figures like ghosts, zombies and spiders. They also demanded that its members refrain from posting costumes from content on social media. That means Barbie, Wednesday Addams, Spider-Man, etc..


Louis Virtel All things George Santos has claim to be. This is me using my late night writing comedy brain. Sorry. Sorry.


Ira Madison III He’s back, baby. Yeah.


Louis Virtel That guy’s finally, like going to court. It’s so crazy how long these things take. Anyway.


Ira Madison III I want. I’m going to save that for my Keep It, actually. So. Okay, now I’m going to say it now.


Louis Virtel Oh, all right.


Ira Madison III Speaking of George Santos, so there was some one tweeting that gays are part of the problem by, you know, celebrating him online. Okay. And this this is government and this is real life. And, you know, you’re like, if he had abs, there was a tweet about how if he had abs, it would be even worse because we’d be hanging out with George Santos, etc.. No one is hanging out with George Santos. He’s going to prison. Yeah.


Louis Virtel What? What a take. Also it’s like you’re like, okay, I understand. Like, it’s serious that he is given any power whatsoever and he’s like a complete fraud, But at the same time, who is celebrating him? I mean, he’s like, buffoonish. And so imagine actually, he’s the only time I’ve used the word buffoon in the past year.


Ira Madison III Well, speaking of buffoons, he went on Meghan McCain’s new podcast.


Louis Virtel Oh, we love.


Ira Madison III Meghan McCain Has Entered The Chat. What a long ass stupid name for podcast. One, two. The only time you want to listen to Meghan McCain is when Whoopi Goldberg or Joy Behar are telling her to shut the fuck up and.


Louis Virtel Like, chasing her with a feather duster or whatever happens on The View. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yes. Using the art of using the cane from the Apollo Theater to get her off stage.


Louis Virtel A little shuffling of Meghan McCain. Also, if Meghan McCain is entering the chat, the room is empty. I’m sorry. So she’s going to be left to wanted.


Ira Madison III It’s like it’s like when chat rooms used to exist on AOL and you’d enter them wondering if someone’s in there to chat and you’re the only person in there.


Louis Virtel You’re like, okay, I’ll just wait around. I’m taking up the modem time on my home computer. This is annoying.


Ira Madison III I really want to talk about this week’s Judging Amy, you know, So, I mean, I’m hoping someone joins the Judging Amy chat.


Louis Virtel The idea that you would need to build a community with judging Amy watchers.


Ira Madison III There was a lot to discuss each week. Okay.


Louis Virtel Oh, short. No, I bet. I bet. I’m sure I was preoccupied with Ally McBeal at the time. Yes.


Ira Madison III How did she get her four C hair to look so good each week?


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III I have a questions. What was the hair care?


Louis Virtel No, I mean, she looked fabulous. I still love her to this day.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Honestly, George Santos Toes would probably be quite a few George Santos for Halloween this year.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Though he has been around longer than a year. I guess he’s still in the news. So I was worried for a while that there wouldn’t be Barbie costumes because we hit that note so fucking hard over the summer. Like, do we really need to see Barbie costumes again? And it turns out people have a short memory and they’re like, Well, I still have this Barbie costume, so why not wear it? Apparently, it’s the most popular costume of the year.


Ira Madison III Louis We went to 16 Barbie parties on Fire Island in one weekend. No. Right. Like the people are not moving on.


Louis Virtel Right. Also, it’s just so easy to dress as. It’s like if you have anything pink at all, it counts, you know.


Ira Madison III So I also think that there is a bit of weirdness in this with the whole dressing up a struck characters thing because are you really promoting Spider-Man if you dress as Spider-Man?


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Also, I mean, like who? What’s the police agency that’s going to, like, report you or to, you know, the feds? Because you, you know, dressed as Bugs Bunny or whatever, and he’s a scab.


Speaker 3 So there you have it.


Ira Madison III Jesse Plemons is going to come in and he is he is going to be investigating. I want to actually see the baby. I mean, it sounds like I’m writing an SNL sketch at this point. Right. But, you know, the Celebrity Halloween Task force.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, there are some.


Ira Madison III Shots of J-Lo’s house.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. There’s so many glaring moments in celebrity history regarding Halloween. I mean, like, I don’t have to bring up what’s her name from Julianne Hough. I mean, like, I’m still getting over that where she played. It was Crazy Eyes from.


Ira Madison III Crazy Eyes.


Louis Virtel Orange is the New Black, right? Woof, okay, Life is short. And that’s still one of the things on my on my mind. I can’t believe it.


Ira Madison III Well, this year I was planning to go as the amazing chan from the amazing Chan and the Chan clan. Do you think that’ll be recent?


Louis Virtel You know what I think? If you dig deep, it definitely will be.


Ira Madison III I bought some tape this morning.


Louis Virtel I need to leave. What if I just leave before we get into the eopisode? What are we talking about today?


Ira Madison III We are talking about the two biggest events of the week.


Louis Virtel Yes. Which are?


Ira Madison III Killers of the Flower Moon.


Louis Virtel Mm hmm. A movie.


Ira Madison III Now? Yeah. Martin Scorsese’s new film. I can’t wait to talk about this film with you. I feel like you have some thoughts.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I do.


Ira Madison III I feel like. I feel like they don’t match mine.


Louis Virtel Oh, interesting. We’ll see. We’ll see.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And then also this week, Britney Spears released her new memoir, The Woman in Me.


Louis Virtel And I just want to be clear. This book came out milliseconds ago. Like, we made the decision, okay, we’re going to find a PDF, okay? We’re going to comb through it. We’re going to comb Twitter. I’m going to start listening to the audiobook, which is readt, of course, by Michelle Williams.


Ira Madison III White Michelle Williams.


Louis Virtel Yes. Important distinction, because, by the way, the other Michelle Williams does come up in this episode. Just be aware of that. But it’s a pretty juicy and pretty angry book, so there’s a lot to discuss there. I’m excited about it. I do have to say before we get into it, I’m still mad that the book is called The Woman in Me. I know it’s a song lyric of hers, but it’s like it’s like if Pink Floyd came out with an album and they’re like, And it’s called Led Zeppelin Four. No, that’s a title that belongs to somebody else. Her name is Shania Twain.


Ira Madison III Hmm. You think it should have been another song lyric? I got your crazy that.


Louis Virtel This is why you write a book. This is why you’re in publishing. I got your crazy ass. So it. Wow.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Did you see the Sherri Shepherd called her crazy this week on Watch What Happens Live? And Issa Rae sitting next to her, and she is like, Oh. Okay, girl. Why am I in it?


Louis Virtel That Sherri Shepherd is the weirdest combination of, like, benign in an actressy way, and yet also kind of a wild card. Like, I don’t know what I’m going to get from her on that Wendy Williams show because she’s obviously filling the shoes of Wendy Williams, who was, you know, purposely incendiary all the time.


Ira Madison III But now it’s just Sherri.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Right in. Yes. Exactly.


Ira Madison III Where she famously talked to Shirley Ralph about like, fucking her son. No, she didn’t talk to her about it. She simulated fucking Sheryl Lee Ralph some on the floor while talking about him.


Louis Virtel They never did that on Carson. Really weird. Times have changed.


Ira Madison III You know, he would just ask about women’s vaginas.


Louis Virtel No, he was just.


Ira Madison III How’s it doing tpday?


Louis Virtel To, like, Dr. Joyce brothers, right? Exactly.


Ira Madison III Yes. Yeah, I miss her.


Louis Virtel Oh, I know. When she would just be on, She. I just saw her. I rewatched The King of Comedy, another Martin Scorsese movie. And of course, like everything else from that time period, she just appears, like she’s just allowed to be there. She was a smart looking woman with a kind of Hitchcock blond Eva marie Saint haircut. And we just were like, Of course, you get to do pieces all the time, be on every sitcom and a guest role, even though you’re not a personality. So weird. Such a weird anomaly.


Ira Madison III Dr. Ruth. Always up here. Everywhere. Yeah. Honestly, I feel like we’ve talked about Gen Z. We talked about sexuality. I think you know what we really need to bring back? We need to bring back sex spurts. Oh, okay. Yeah, we need we need all smart people. You see women not like a Dr. Drew type. That’s when we got a little too salacious. We need women who are old just on TV talking about intercourse.


Louis Virtel Right. And being like it wasn’t lubricated enough, like making it not sexy at all. Just like you’re on a hot line dealing with a dispatcher.


Ira Madison III Yeah, that was sex ed for a lot of people, you know?


Louis Virtel Right? No, I mean, like, I think back all the time about how I didn’t know anything until. But I was like, that was the beginning of it. Like before you got to sex ed in high school, you know.


Ira Madison III Now Gen Z has Tiffany Haddish throwing a grapefruit.


Louis Virtel Right. Right on every channel at all time. You can. You can never not see that movie. It’s on every channel all the time.


Ira Madison III Okay, my last non sequitur. Okay, before we start this show, I saw Kim Petras last week at the Brooklyn Mirage and then I went to her after party, though she had a Zero Bond. Why was Tiffany Haddish there?


Louis Virtel She is just everywhere.


Ira Madison III I think she’s just just cavorting around and just just pointing their fingers out. Do it very like. Like a like a white woman listening to Motown in the Big Chill. It was very. What’s going on here? You know.


Louis Virtel What I think it.


Ira Madison III Is like people looked over. They were like, What are you doing here?


Louis Virtel But I think the deal is she has a single out now with Lil Jon, so maybe it’s about associating with other musicians. And I did listen to the song and, you know, sometimes things don’t really end up sounding like a song, even though you want to record a song. They’re not song like. And that was, I would say, one of them.


Ira Madison III You know, I don’t really foresee a Jamie Foxx style music career from her. Like how he went from comedy to Blame It on the Alcohol and Unforgettable. Like, his music era was pretty good. Yeah.


Louis Virtel No, he had a number one hit. He’s like one of those Oscar anomaly people who has an acting Oscar and a number one hit like Cher, Barbra Streisand, etc.. So.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And also Meryl.


Speaker 3 Yeah.


Ira Madison III Ricky. Ricky got a number one hit, right?


Louis Virtel That’s right. And also, yeah, she. She’s got song on The Giver soundtrack. As you know, It was a dystopia. I think The Giver, by the way, is the worst Meryl Streep movie. If I if I had to pick a number one. And by the way, of course, she’s on my mind because she turns out she’s secretly divorced or separated from Don Gummer or whatever. And I’m like, We need a famous actress married to, like, a sometime sculptor. I’m sorry. It upsets me that they’re not together.


Ira Madison III You know, I would say that one of her worst films is I mean, I know Lady is pretty bad.


Louis Virtel It is terrible.


Ira Madison III And so is The Prom.


Louis Virtel I forgot she was in that. The Prom, the product, like, started out good. And then. Well, I mean, it’s the Ryan Murphy thing. It starts out good. You’re like, wow, whiz bang, good old school musical chops. And then it kind of gets lost in a story that’s really soupy.


Ira Madison III Remember when we had to pretend to like that in an interview?


Louis Virtel Oh, I do. I do. I remember I was thinking back, it was like, Who’s in that movie? Oh, no, I remember. Yeah.


Ira Madison III The prob honestly, the Nicole Kidman scene was memorable.


Louis Virtel Oh, Jesus. Please, I still have that. I was diagnosed with XYZ last week. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah. But of course, Meryl Streep did her whole Will and Jada thing that that also happened this way. It happened so quickly, though. It was buried on a Friday night.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, Right.


Ira Madison III Like she buried the fuck out of that news. And I feel like everyone was just on their phones telling each other. Wait. Meryl Streep has been separated from her husband for, like, six, seven years. What?


Louis Virtel Yeah. No, it’s crazy.


Ira Madison III Who else is secretly separated in Hollywood? Yeah, that’s what I want to know.


Louis Virtel Stand up, be counted.


Ira Madison III All right. We have Josh Sharp and Aaron Jackson here this week to talk about their new film, Dicks the Musical.


Louis Virtel The last time I saw them, I was in Fire Island, so I’m wearing my naughty Fire Island meat shirt in their honor. I hope you all enjoy it.


Ira Madison III We’ll be right back with more Keep It.




Ira Madison III Martin Scorsese. He is back, and this time he’s brought his two favorite muses, Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro for the Western crime drama Killers of the Flower Moon. But before we dive into the film itself, Louis, huh? Pop quiz.


Louis Virtel All right.


Ira Madison III What were the other two movies? Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro starred in together.


Louis Virtel Oh, Jesus. This should be easy. Come on, Louis. I’m sorry. I’m, like, good at knowing these things, and it’s not coming to mind immediately. You’ll have to tell me. What is it?


Ira Madison III This Boy’s Life.


Louis Virtel Wow. Okay. I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I had to dig. Okay, Go ahead.


Ira Madison III And Marvin’s Room.


Louis Virtel They are both in that. That’s the rare movie where they are. But well, like Robert DeNiro was very much in a supporting role and it’s because Diane Keaton is nominated for that. And then Meryl Streep is also a star of it, but less flashy than the Diane Keaton role who cast this. It’s so shocking. And then Leonardo DiCaprio is sort of like an arms folded angsty teen, if I remember correctly. And that’s the year before Titanic.


Ira Madison III Gwen Vernon’s in it, too. It’s I actually have not seen this film and I wonder if it if it holds up.


Louis Virtel It has that nineties kind of Miramax vibe. I don’t think it’s a miramax movie.


Ira Madison III But I don’t know if I want to watch a nineties movie about leukemia.


Louis Virtel Yeah. It’s very in the What’s that? Renee Zellweger One true thing also with Meryl Streep.


Ira Madison III Meryl was just doing shit in the nineties now.


Louis Virtel Right? She’s like, I got to get out of the house. I have too many kids with the last name Gummer. I’m sick about.


Ira Madison III What was her what was her comeback from doing schlocky nineties things?


Louis Virtel I mean, like she I mean, like Mamma mia is when she was in like The Hours adaptation, you know.


Ira Madison III Mm. Okay. I feel like it was around the late nineties 2000.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Because yeah, she had a nineties streak that was like, like Dancing at Lunesta movie, movies like that. That’s how you pronounce that word where it was like prestige but sort of falling under the radar.


Ira Madison III Dancing at Lunesta, which I’ve never seen.


Louis Virtel Imagine having seen it happen. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Well I’ve never seen it because it at Loyola Chicago one year we did the play and okay, sitting through the play I was like, I’m never watching this fucking movie. I’ll tell you that Irish woman sitting around a kitchen.


Speaker 3 Yeah, right, right.


Ira Madison III Dancing at Luna. So at that, maybe they’re at the Blarney Stop.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Winking that Divine was my Irish movie from that time that I watched. That was a little cuter, a little quaint.


Ira Madison III Her mine was Colin Farrell sex tape.


Louis Virtel Oh. Lots of character development in that, I do have to say.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, this film, Marty, is like 80. Yeah, He’s been making movies since his twenties, so he is he is really packing them out there. And I have to say, I love this movie.


Louis Virtel I my experience with really liked, but I really liked the movie, which is crazy. I’m not somebody who thinks movies need to be short or anything, but three and a half hours is a bit of an ask. If I had a criticism, I would say I do think it could be a half hour shorter. That said, you’re never despairing at the length because it’s giving. It’s such a here’s a word I hate that fucking movie critics use, but I’m going to have and use that sumptuous like it’s such an immersive movie. I would actually say maybe for Martin Scorsese. I hope this doesn’t sound too glib. It’s a little bit like what Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was for Quentin Tarantino and that. Tone wise, it’s softer than what they usually do. And it’s I think it almost feels like you’re wearing a VR headset and just exploring this world a little bit, but it’s not hitting you over the head with stage design either. It’s it’s just an awesome, believable universe. And then you get you understand really quickly the historical dynamic at play. But I’ll let you go first. Tell me what you liked about it.


Ira Madison III I kind of loved it. I feel like obviously the movie is long. I took a quick bathroom break, but I really felt that the big the beginning of the film, the first two acts, were really what sold it for me. That’s the part that I loved. I would say I liked the third act. If I’m letterboxing, it is getting four stars in that vibe. It’s not. I liked The Irishman better, actually. I think that’s.


Louis Virtel Crazy. I definitely think this is better than The Irishman. But I agree. It’s a four. This is a four star movie out of five for me. Killers of the Flower Moon.


Ira Madison III The Irishman would have probably a four and a half. I feel like The Irishman for me felt more staggering and that it felt like that was from that year where we were getting Once Upon A Time in Hollywood, we were also getting Pain and Glory from Almodovar. It felt like the directors that we’d been growing up with, I mean, directors were making films before we were born, obviously were sort of aging, and they were making films about aging and they were about their careers, and they felt more assured. It felt like they were really talking about aging in their lives, and they almost felt like they were memoirs. Yeah, in a sense, you know, like sort of like romantic clefs of their life. And this film for me felt great when it was first. Just felt like we were learning about the the people in Oklahoma. We were learning about the tribe, We were learning about Leonardo DiCaprio. It was all folding together into a story. I wasn’t sure where it was going at first, and then once it hooked in with Robert De Niro being, you know, basically this sort of mob character who was controlling this town and murdering Native Americans for their money that felt wicked and evil. And it was fun and it hooked me and I was along for the ride. I feel like when I got to the point of liking it and not loving it was once Leonardo DiCaprio was arrested, You know.


Louis Virtel Totally. That’s exactly.


Ira Madison III The courtroom trial. And I felt then we basically just started rehashing points of the film that we’d already seen. And I don’t love a courtroom drama that much, which is weird because I’ve established that one of my favorite TV procedurals are legal dramas. But I feel like when you’re hooked in there for a stupid procedural, that’s fine. You’re going to be along for that ride. And if you’re watching something like The Good Wife or something, they’re giving you something different each time. With the trial, right? This felt like nothing new was being added with the courtroom stuff.


Louis Virtel And also, it’s just like at that point in the movie, like Leonardo DiCaprio is just straight up glowering for an hour, you know, like. Right. And also, that’s something that’s interesting about this movie is something I appreciate is that I didn’t feel like it was chock full of huge acting moments, like it was really telling a story and it wasn’t about any one actor being like the greatest or most dramatic or, you know, you really were just absorbing the way these characters live. And so it made it seem more realistic that there wasn’t there weren’t too many outburst scenes, even though I think I think Robert De Niro was probably a frontrunner for the supporting actor Oscar in this movie. I don’t think Leo is going to win.


Ira Madison III Now as well. You know, he’ll get nominated, of course. Yeah. Leo Right. But I feel I want Lily Gladstone to be nominated. She’s fantastic as Molly. But my other problem with the film is she completely drops out in the third out.


Louis Virtel The movie gets away from her, and in a way that surprises you because something about the way they introduce her character and just the way she presents herself, there’s like a she’s kind of serene, but also cerebral. Like you don’t really know the full story going on in her head at any given time. She voices suspicions about her husband and white people in general, But it sets an interesting tone early in the movie. And then for her to kind of just go away and then appear in one final moment in a confrontation with him, that did really surprised me.


Ira Madison III And that is where I get back to the conflict that is surrounding the discussion of this film, obviously, is should Scorsese have made this film? It’s centers, Ernest. It centers Leonardo DiCaprio’s white character, and it basically shows them systematically murdering Native Americans. Until it gets to the endpoint where it’s the system is evil, white people are evil, etc., It works from that perspective because at the end you have to have Lily Gladstone sort of come to this realization about who her husband is, this idea that maybe he. Participated in evil. But did he loved me, what he hurt me, etc.. Which means that you have to have her basically drop out of parts of the film so that you can get that scene at the end. But I’m not so invested in that scene that I didn’t want her coming to her own realizations about her family or what was being done with her. And, you know, I think the scene where she goes to D.C. and asks the president to send someone to help her people is something that was invented for the film. So they gave her a bit of agency there in that scene. But it’s just one brief scene. I need it. I need to know more of her interiority. And I think that Scorsese is very good at that with directing. There are so many scenes where you see her walking through town and just the faces of white people staring at her. And so you feel her loss as well. And there’s each time someone in her family dies, just like the guttural screams that she lets out are like, They’re still with me right now. But yeah, I really was just missing some more from her. And I get that. Listen, this is an important story to be told, and it’s one of those things where it feels like. You know, Spielberg making the Color Purple. There was no black director who was going to be allowed to make that film at that time. Right. There’s no indigenous director who’s going to be allowed to make this film right now except for Taika Waititi and nobody trying to see that. So.


Louis Virtel Interesting choice. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Right. Someone tweeted about that. There was a tweet from someone about how there should have been an indigenous director to do it like Taika Waititi, except it probably would have been more funny. And I was like, It would have been something.


Louis Virtel I mean.


Ira Madison III We saw Jojo Rabbit.


Louis Virtel He’s got my mind racing. I don’t know. No, I think also though, there is like a narrative benefit to not placing her and her family at the absolute center of the movie, because as I saw somebody tweet, I believe I think I saw this in history. I don’t think it was an article I read. Then the audience would then probably identify with those characters and sort of be like, Oh, I would behave this way when it’s not about identifying with them. It’s about saying, you know, you’re the white people like you here. Here’s like banality takes over and you you think you have these complex emotions, but ultimately you end up doing the evil thing. You know, just because it ends up being more convenient and advantageous for you. So I think and also this is something that is wrapped up at the end of the movie, which is also a sort of surprising take from Martin Scorsese. At the end of the movie. It takes it turns into the the visual world and goes away, and we’re suddenly on stage at a radio drama where people are acting out the atrocities towards the Osage. And you just you’re hearing these like pleasant sounds, you know, like the way radio dramas work, like you hear come the footsteps and stuff and people are on stage and actors are playing these roles and we know they’re actors. And I think that’s Martin Scorsese is saying, Yeah, the entire film that precedes this is also a similar scrum. It’s also, you know, I’m white director of some advantage putting on an entertainment not you know. There are there are there are reasons this is problematic that I’m telling the story. But ultimately, through this illusion, we can draw some conclusions. And I thought that was a pretty smart way to end the film. And then, of course, he says, the final lines.


Ira Madison III Of the first scene. I thought that even more of an indictment, too, of history, particularly because a lot of the impersonations in that scene of people were kind of racist. Yeah, And there’s obviously the radio drama, The Light. I laugh the hardest that in the movie I was because I hide behind them on the curtain. There’s a big lucky Strike Cigaret bar and then someone says, let me light myself a lucky strike cigaret or something to that effect. Yeah, it was like of course.


Louis Virtel An advertisement.


Ira Madison III It’s an advertisement. And I think that was more also an indictment of like true crime, podcasting or tech talks. And as you know, Scorsese, he is an avid tick tock participant thanks to his daughter.


Louis Virtel He does good work on it. Yes.


Ira Madison III And so I don’t know. It was interesting him using I feel like almost a modern element in this film. That was period. And yeah, just the fact that this evil atrocity sort of happened. But then it’s just packaged into entertainment for people the same way that the entertainment. Of people dying do like the Tulsa massacre or other atrocities were being watched on screen by people within the movie, Robert De Niro’s character in entertainment. You know, one of the wildest scenes, I think, of indicting. The characters in this movie, which is how the KKK is just sort of there.


Louis Virtel Oh, hanging out there in the parade by the other flowers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Right there.


Ira Madison III Just I think it was I think it’s a very good movie. I think he had this itch to scratch, and I’m glad that he was able to do it. I think that for a white director to make this film, he is one of the ones you’re more okay with doing it, I mean, he has his world Cinema initiative. This is a man who loves cinema, loves world cinema, loves cultures, and has worked to preserve other film cultures for decades, you know, so that these films can continue to live on and sort of be seen by other audiences. So in that respect, I respect what he’s done in the film. Yeah, I think that I would love to see in the future a film about this story or another similar story from someone else. But, you know, it it felt very felt very Tony Hillerman novel. Yes, I remember those. Yes. So, yes, I was obsessed with those as a kid, mostly because my grandmother loved crime dramas. She would listen I perro and radio things on the car and she would read novels to Stephen King and other mysteries. And when I first found a Tony Hillerman, I was pulled into just the the covers. The covers were always so interesting. So I read through all of our Tony Hillerman novels and then went to get more at the library as a kid. And I guess I never realized that he was just a white man.


Louis Virtel Right, right.


Ira Madison III As a kid. But, you know, had also lived on a reservation and gotten to know Native Americans when he was writing the story. And I actually I don’t know. I love to actually hear from listeners who maybe have read those or maybe indigenous people, if that’s if those books are marred in some sort of interesting appropriation or thing, because I don’t think we really even talk about those books anymore now.


Louis Virtel Also, speaking of spooky things, so Jesse Plemons shows up in this movie at some point. There really is something about I was sure there was something about this actor.


Ira Madison III I didn’t know he was in it.


Louis Virtel He should always just show up because there’s something so bracing about him. Like, it’s like the same feeling you get when he shows up in game night, Right? And it’s just like something about him being at your door and just looking at you is like totally turns a movie on its head. It’s a completely correct.


Ira Madison III He turned it into a A24 movie. Yeah. It’s scary.


Louis Virtel Right? Right. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Jesse Plemons. Yeah.


Louis Virtel And and he never and the like, guys never gives way. There’s just something impenetrable about what he brings to a movie.


Ira Madison III I will say that the FBI stuff, it was great when they arrived to and there’s obviously an indictment of the FBI too and J. Edgar Hoover because you think he’s coming to save these people. And like we know historically, the FBI has never saved anybody’s life, but usually they’re responsible for murdering people. But there was the one Native American character who was part of the FBI, I guess they were undercover or something. And I felt like that subplot was very, very loose. Yeah. So I didn’t he just sort of appeared and I was thinking it was going to be one thing and then it wasn’t. And then he was just sort of there. And he also wasn’t fully developed as a character. So that felt a little bit by the wayside too, right, overall. Really damn good movie. I lit up, I lit up a cigaret when I left the theater.


Louis Virtel And I keep thinking about this movie in regards to the Oscar conversation because the only best picture winner, Martin Scorsese you had is The Departed. You know, everything else has passed terminal several Oscar wins and acting. Of course, you’ve got your Ellen Burstyn and Alice doesn’t live here anymore. You’ve got Raging Bull, Robert De Niro, Cate Blanchett in The Aviator. Lots and lots of things like that. But I feel like this is the movie that could push them into a second best picture when I just it feels very hard to deny there’s so much in addition to history being told it’s so much movie. I mean, again, you used the word cinematic before, but it’s like it really takes somebody of his caliber to bring the amount of detail and just like I’ll call it watch ability to something that epic, you know?


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Although I will say. Fourth favorite. Collaboration with Leo.


Louis Virtel And you’re first, are you? I think Gangs of New York is your favorite, is it not?


Ira Madison III Gangs in New York is my favorite. But Wolf of Wall Street is right up there with that. Yes. I mean, that’s a fucking spectacular film that I actually have not rewatched lately. And I haven’t rewatched Gangs of New York lately. So if I rewatch those, maybe those two could shift. Those are sort of scream, scream two for me. It can go either way, both of those. And third, I would put The departed. I love the department.


Louis Virtel I enjoy the departed. It is just crazy to me that Mark Wahlberg is the one who got the acting nomination for that movie because he is playing it too. Like what? What bleachers is he playing too? And that movie, it’s just like, So you’re the loudest as what’s going on here.


Ira Madison III And then Shutter Island and then The Aviator obviously is at the bottom.


Louis Virtel I think The Aviator is okay. It’s just a movie that needs to be edited. It’s just like there’s parts that aren’t as good. I feel that way about The Wolf of Wall Street, too. I rewatched my favorite Scorsese movie over the weekend, The King of Comedy with Robert De Niro. First of all, Robert De Niro in this movie, it just needs to be said, looks exactly like Mike Lindell. I know that’s not a name on anybody’s mind. Recently, I work at Jimmy Kimmel where this name comes up every day. But anyway, for a movie I love so much, it is not pleasant for a single moment. So get something about human nature, right? About how some, I’ll say, driven people can’t be driven like everything in their life is leading up to the next moment, and it just gets more and more relevant. Sandra Bernhard is crazy in that movie. Diane Abbott, former Robert’s new paramour, gives a really good performance in it too. And Jerry Louis, that would have been an inspired supporting nomination we didn’t get. If you haven’t seen the King of Comedy, watch it. You will you will start the movie with chills and end the movie with Charles.


Ira Madison III His seventies films up until the early eighties. I believe that’s about 1982.


Louis Virtel 83. Yeah.


Ira Madison III It is. Those those are his, like, bleak films. Those are his New York City is cruel. New York City is unforgiving. The nasty Alice doesn’t Live here anymore is is sort of not within that genre, except once he gets together with Kris Kristofferson and then he’s just sort of like controlling and weird and but then she is sort of ruined. There’s always that also become sort of a depressing film. It’s not really until after hours and like 85 where he’s like, I’m having fun making movies now.


Louis Virtel Yeah, that movie is a guy to scamper around me and the craziest people I’ve ever met. I don’t love that movie, but I do sort of appreciate that. That’s good. Terry Guard performance.


Ira Madison III Yeah, the After Hours is more of a film I appreciate than a film where I’m like, This is one of Scorsese’s best films. It is. It is just fun that he made that movie between King of Comedy and then that’s his Kogarah.


Speaker 3 Set.


Ira Madison III Up where he followed that up with.


Louis Virtel Last Temptation of Christ.


Ira Madison III I believe you’re with the color of money.


Louis Virtel Oh, of course, yes. 86.


Ira Madison III Like, I’m just going to make a I’ve just got to make a sequel to The Hustler.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. And that’s a weird best actor win. Not that Paul Newman is bad in it, but he’s given so many better performances. I do love Mary Elizabeth Master Antonio in that movie. And my theory about her as she would have would have had a much bigger career. But then Julia Roberts came along and had the exact same silhouette, and we couldn’t have two of them.


Ira Madison III And, you know, my you know, my man’s in that movie.


Louis Virtel Mr. T Yes. Mr. Tom Cruise. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Mr. T, Mr. Tom Cruise. All right. When we’re back, we are joined by Josh and Aaron of Dicks. Our guests today are gay culture. They’ve adapted their off-Broadway musical Fucking Identical Twins into the Wild and hilarious new film Dicks The Musical. We are delighted to welcome to Keep It the writers and stars of Dicks, Josh Sharp and Aaron Jackson.


Louis Virtel I also want to hear from these gentlemen by saying they are also very nice guys and very funny. And also in this movie.


Aaron Jackson Fuck. Why would you do that?


Louis Virtel I know. I’m sorry to ruin everything for you.


Josh Sharp You can’t say that into a microphone. He says that.


Louis Virtel There is something so amazing about watching this very, very crazy movie. And like, you guys playing these broad, broad characters and yet your actual personality still shine through. Like there was something like, I can’t believe you pulled that off, actually. Are you do you do you actually see yourselves in the movie when you watch this, even though it’s so wild?


Aaron Jackson I think definitely because we’ve been doing it for so long because as Ira said, it was it was a UCB show to call it off.


Ira Madison III That’s Off Broadway.


Aaron Jackson Is a very, very interesting contract and site. We did it for negative dollars, but we were doing that in 2014 and 2015. So I don’t know, like we’ve just been doing these characters for so long. They’re they’re a part of us. Well, and also, as you saw in the film, Larry was really big on like trying to keep the performance aspect alive and have it feel like you’re watching us, like put on a show for you to sort of Everyone is like playing a character Like Nathan Lane is Nathan Lane, you know, and like, Right, right. Megan Thee stallion is making a stallion. So it was very much like the veneer should be thin.


Ira Madison III I forgot that it was because I never saw the UCB show, the off-Broadway show, and so I had forgotten that that was its inception. You know, you had some clips from the original show at the end during the credits, but it all came to me sort of as you’re watching the film, as it’s the jokes are unfolding as it gets wilder. And then especially at the end, I was like, of course, this was birthed like on a comedy stage in New York because it is truly one of the wildest films I’ve seen.


Josh Sharp I do think that’s the fun part about it. Taking like almost a decade and starting as a UCB shows. That meant we got to do a lot of things that if it had just been a movie, they’d be like, You can’t do this. But they were like Roots and this thing where a lot of like jokes and bits would sneak through and they’d be like, But it worked. Then we might as well try it in a movie I like. If it had been a normal development process, you would have gotten a lot more of like, No fucking way, can you do this?.


Aaron Jackson Yeah, people are always like, How did you pitch this? And it was like we just kind of we had a video of this show, so people either saw the show or if they didn’t, you could send the video with the script and they’re like, Oh, okay, I get it. But if you’re just trying to pitch, I don’t know how you would do it. We open on.


Louis Virtel Yeah. That’s interesting because I heard that once upon a time you were actually considering giving this project to like big Hollywood straight actors to play.


Josh Sharp Well, at first got sold to Fox as a script, Right. And I should be honest that, like, Train did not get out of the station. They’re like, they just we wrote it as a script and then they read it and they were like, God is a fagot. Okay, So it’s a no. No. No casting was done. But certainly when they were like really preliminary talks, they were like, Well, so probably Channing Tatum or something like things like that were said or we were like.


Aaron Jackson Just done.


Josh Sharp Hail, Caesar.


Aaron Jackson Yeah, Hail Caesar. So he’d just done a song and dance. Everyone was like, Oh, Channing Tatum would be perfect for this. And we were like, I think people would hate it if he was playing like, this toxic fucking guy, double like Lindsay Lohan. It would have been, Yeah.


Louis Virtel We should establish that this movie is about two people who don’t look anything alike and they come together and they’re both these, like, high octane asshole business guys in New York. And then they the revelation somehow is that they are fucking identical twins, which is the name of the original show. And this entire comedy ensues about them talking about their upbringing and bringing their parents back together, played by Nathan Lane and Megan Mullally. Anyway, it’s just nothing you would pitch to a random, I don’t know, straight actor, really, Honestly, It’s too weird, too crazy to grow. So it’s shocking that like people in the in the vein of like Ryan Reynolds might have been interested once upon a time.


Aaron Jackson And never want it to happen. Never would have happened, I think.


Ira Madison III But I’m sure Paul Mescal would have done it.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Aaron Jackson Yeah. With Andrew Scott, maybe. Oh, yeah. The closest we got to pitching, like once it was set up at A24, we did like a meeting to talk about it. And one point we were like, We want it to be the hereditary of comedies. And that was like fully a joke. But they were like, Oh, there’s something to that. Yeah. As if that phrase makes any sense at all or means anything, you know.


Louis Virtel Hereditary. Pretty funny on its own. I have to say, when you look back, like legitimately, when that girl puts her head up and down, I’m laughing.


Josh Sharp Yeah, I laugh at.


Aaron Jackson Hereditary is very gay coded.


Louis Virtel Oh, for sure. Certainly. Anything with.


Ira Madison III Toni Collette?


Josh Sharp Yeah. Yeah. You know.


Ira Madison III I am your mother.


Louis Virtel And dad. Of course.


Aaron Jackson Little girl doing tongue pops, you know.


Josh Sharp Aaron and I often quote that scene where Ann Dowd sees Toni Collette in, like, the craft store parking lot, and she does like a 40 foot cross. She got to do marches for, like 40 feet and goes like Annie, Annie, Annie, Annie. Takes like 30 seconds for her to cross it. All, she says, will.


Aaron Jackson So good.


Josh Sharp I’ve been meaning to talk to you. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Jesus Christ. That’s funny.


Ira Madison III So were there elements of, you know, this show that you really did want to be in the movie that didn’t make it to the film? Or were you pretty much just satisfied with everything that you translated from the stage to the screen?


Aaron Jackson We’re pretty lucky that Larry Charles is the director and he loved the stage show. So he would he was very defensive of that and wanted to get all of it in. So I think. What. Right, Josh? Yeah, I didn’t like it cut from the stage show. We we wanted to cut because it was only 30 minutes. So there’s a lot of like plot compression jokes and a lot of like, oh, it’s taking me a long time to change my costume because we also played the parents in that. So like those jokes, you didn’t, you did. I was happy to let those go because yeah.


Josh Sharp It was only like stuff that was just like, This won’t work as a movie. Larry was very big about being like, We have to push it crazier. There was never anyone being like, This is too crazy for the movie. Larry was always like, Were there doubts itself for one second the audience will sniff out.


Aaron Jackson So yeah, they’ll turn on it.


Josh Sharp Everybody was on board for that. There were just like mostly things where you’re like, This is not a movie. This is a two man show, you know?


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Maybe Then were there elements that you found that when you first did this show as fucking identical twins, I guess. How did that show then morph to become the final stage show that you then were pitching? Because I have to assume you.


Aaron Jackson Never did this. That’s what I mean, we were doing it as this half hour show for like a year and a half. Never fucking once thinking it would be a movie. We thought it best we’d get a general meeting at Comedy Central. Yeah, like. as it was wrapping up, this producer was like, Would you want to pitch it as a movie? And we were like, Funny story. It’s based on a movie where ripping off the Parent Trap and that’s what led to the Fox script. So like once it got in script plan, we like killed it as a live show basically. So it never got the like sort of normal. Like how do you develop it into a two hour stage show that becomes a movie? It was like, nope, it was very proof of concept. The old show.


Louis Virtel Also, there’s something about this movie like, I’m not saying we’re in a universe really of gay respectability politics anymore, but like, you know, like things like heart stopper in the air that are very like, pleasing and palatable and like, the colors are like very Crayola and, you know, you can take it in easily. This movie is so often puerile and like, in-your-face and like, like gross and but like, hilarious in a way that I can only associate with certain like comics I grew up with, like movies, like Jim Carrey movies and things like that. Yeah. Was that like something you felt you had to push? Like you wanted to make it grosser and you wanted to make it? You know, I don’t know. Like, because there’s something is defiant about that. I think still.


Aaron Jackson We grew up on all those movies, those nineties movies like Austin Powers, all but Jim Carrey’s like Zoolander. And even as we’re a bit older about like Anchorman and all that, and we loved those movies versus like it is broad. We are playing characters like, no, no one is like saying, Oh, this could really happen. I mean, it’s all very, very elevated and stylized, but those are all like very straight and you don’t really have a lot of like a gay. There’s never been like that many gay POV versions of that. So while we love those things like Heart Stopper and Love Simon’s and all of these more like palatable gay stories, it’s like, Well, what about this disgusting aspect of being gay that’s really bad and just like sort of reveling and filth and and to play in that silly kind of joke line world that.


Josh Sharp I think, like John Waters laid the track for the rainbow, but then then like to get to do almost the South Park version, which is like that’s rooted in a much more, I feel like libertarian sensibility. But when you get there, rooted in a very queer sensibility, that’s like, you already think I’m grosser, so I might as well be grosser. You know, I could be like, it was like, fun to play with that. But everything is like, well, it’s all John Waters. It’s just John Waters with maybe more jokes, you know? But like.


Louis Virtel Because when it comes to those nineties movies like Austin Powers, etc., I feel like the one thing about them that usually ends up being extremely dated is if they make a gay joke or, you know.


Aaron Jackson Like, Oh yeah.


Louis Virtel There’s some subplot where like, oh my are like an Ace Ventura or whatever, you know, it’s just like.


Aaron Jackson Yeah, that one.


Louis Virtel So it’s particularly like, I think like incredible to make it extremely gay because we never got that right when it came to broadness. You know.


Josh Sharp It is funny that gross out comedies have really been the providence of straight men. It’s very rare that we’ve let queers do, like fold gross out comedies.


Aaron Jackson And Bridesmaids is like, I love Bridesmaids and there’s the diarrhea scene, but that’s kind of the only, like gross out moment of Bridesmaids. The rest of it is just so fucking funny. But like, and that’s a little more rooted in reality. Bridesmaids It’s not full, right? Like MacGruber that Chris Christie wigs also and like that, which is not reality.


Josh Sharp Yeah also Aaron and I just like jokes and we end up talking a lot about the like really outrageous offensive stuff, but we’re like, there’s just as much in the movie that’s like stupid or silly or absurd or campy. It’s just like the idea that you could push jokes like 100 directions is what’s fun to us. And so part of that is like the gross out stuff, but it’s also like there’s a minute and a half of Megan Mullally improvising, just pointing at the wrong thing. And that’s like, not for us at all, you know what I mean? So it’s like there’s like a lot of just like, how can we milk a joke out of everything?


Ira Madison III The whole concept of running in the sewer was really by the thing. I love the mouse, even climbing into the sewer so that comedy works Real.


Louis Virtel Scooby Doo shit. Yeah. Yeah.


Josh Sharp Aaron tell them what your mom said on set that day.


Aaron Jackson My mom came to visit set, and it was the day we were shooting the sewer. But I was kind of showing her around. The second she sees the sewers, she’s like, Oh, because you were obsessed with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a little boy. And I was like, Oh, my God. Like, she’s just like, peeled into my brain. I was like, You’re right. And it never was like, Look. Honor the Ninja Turtles. But I was like, Oh, my God. She would see me, like, coming at you from the influence.


Louis Virtel Your mom acting like a TV psychic, Just like putting her hand out, saying like, I know what this is.


Josh Sharp But yeah, I got I love, like, we love filth. And we just thought it was so funny to, like, go under the city for the climax of the movie. Also, the Sewer Boys are just so far. It was like, we have to.


Aaron Jackson We have to save them.


Josh Sharp We have to go on a chase scene with them.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. We should explain that the sewer boys are. I’m going to call them a pair of pets that Nathan Lane, the estranged dad character, possesses. And they are, I believe. Are they are they generated with puppets? If I saw the end sequence correct correctly, that you will not believe these creatures or what they do.


Josh Sharp The breakout stars of the film, they really are.


Ira Madison III Jim Henson could never have.


Aaron Jackson We could never afford it. Yeah.


Josh Sharp That’s right. Correct.


Louis Virtel Can you talk about the development of this as a concept? Because, you know, it’s just again, so gross, I can’t believe it, which is a motif running through this movie.


Aaron Jackson In the in the stage show. They were just kind of a throwaway joke because that the dad character is a man in his sixties and he’s just coming out. And Josh and I, we’re kind of like having fun with that idea of like misunderstanding gay code. Like this character is like, I’m gay and fabulous, but then it’s like, nothing you’re doing is gay. This is horrible. So we just thought it would be funny, like, how do you really heighten that? And we’re like, Well, instead of what if instead of cute little corgis, what if he had these, like, disgusting monsters and thinks that they’re gay culture? And then when we had a little bit more money for the movie, we got to actualize them. And then you just sort of we were just having so much fun. They just kept that. And always executives would be like, So their little boys that he fucks and were like, No, no, no. They’re little monsters he keeps in a cage. Why can’t you understand? But yeah, we just enjoyed it, enjoyed that world.


Josh Sharp But I do love all those, like, gremlins and labrinth and yeah, like, and even like Jurassic Park, like the practical parts are my favorite parts. So we were always like passing puppets. There’s a brief time they were like, they wanted it to be Cirque du Soleil performers. And we were like, No, no, no.


Aaron Jackson We were like, That would be scary then. I mean, that would be like that. You feel unease, that will feel like you fucking that. Like now it’s very clear he’s not fucking them. They’re just monsters in a cage.


Louis Virtel I just thought of this right now. It reminds me of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles when they do their origin story and like you see the Turtles being born and stuff, that’s the kind of gross like vibe you got from.


Josh Sharp Aaron’s mother. Those movies I love to wear that. They were all really practical, The Turtles and the Bad guys and, you know, those Nineties Turtles movies with Vanilla Ice and everything.


Aaron Jackson So you all know this is, you know, experts in culture. But practical always ages better like CGI looks job like the next Friday CGI looks bad whereas puppets always look right even when they’re wrong, they like look right. They make sense in the piece.


Louis Virtel It’s yeah, like Star Wars and stuff, you know, like the original things. Yeah. E.T. or.


Aaron Jackson Looks good. E. T. still looks good.


Ira Madison III I mean, you mentioned Jurassic Park, even the birth of that scene, it looks real. The T-Rex looks real. It’s still a terrifying movie.


Aaron Jackson The little car and it’s a big puppet. That’s the scariest part. It’s like all the CGI running doesn’t do anything for me, you know?


Ira Madison III I want to ask about Meghan, who I know. You know, you. You DM the stallion and you were like, Will you be in this movie? And she said, Yeah, sure. And then she did it. What was it like having Meghan? Just on set. And also, did she read the entire script?


Aaron Jackson Shocking. And not really like she. She definitely. She had this song. She had to record it. But there certainly were parts of her character like, we have a moment where because like in the office we don’t sell Roombas. We sell only the parts of Roombas, like the wires and the gears and the teeny tiny brushes. And so she was like, Sorry, what do we sell? And we explained it to her and we had to explain it again. And she was like, okay, so it’s stupid, huh? And we were like, Yes, ma’am, it’s stupid. And she was like, I can do stupid. I can do stupid.


Josh Sharp She was so great. I mean, like, she came. She’s such a pro and I mean that kind of person. It’s just like a charisma. They’re like a they’re like a star that the things orbit around. It is crazy. You’re just like. You are so charismatic, so cool, so beautiful. I don’t know. She was great. It sounds pat, but it’s like, I mean, she’s so fabulous at what she does. And then she also is like, sneaky, very funny. So given all of that, we were like, she could be a total nightmare to work with and it’d be worth it. But she was the best. She’s like, like they’re calling cut and she’s staying on set playing tic tac toe with the dancers, like goofing around, you know? I mean, it was like, she is like, wonderful in a way that you would not expect of superstars, you know? Oh, yeah.


Aaron Jackson She gets there and the choreographers showed her her number, but they were like, they put a stand in and then they’re like, You can do any of this. You can do none of this. Like we can choreograph around you. We just want to show you this is an offering of what you could do. And she just sat there and watched the whole thing and then she stopped. And they’re like, What do you think? If she’s like, I’m going to need different shoes. And then she just stood up and started learning it and learned every single step.


Josh Sharp Like, I want to learn the whole thing. I’ll do it better, get me better shoes so I can learn this. This girl like, like. Works like she’s a hard worker. She’s cool.


Louis Virtel I know how cool it must be said also. So Nathan Lane and Megan Mullally in this movie are playing. I associate them with being kooky or strange, you know, like they’re all like they’ll get a laugh for whatever way suits them or whatever. But I have to imagine for the both of them, this was new territory. I mean, like this, they are bubbling at the mouth crazy in this film. I mean.


Aaron Jackson I think Mullally, she felt very much at home because she like she like, wants to do this shit and I think doesn’t always get the chance to. Nathan definitely was the one who, like, as he tells it, like read the script and was like, it was the funniest thing I’d ever read. I wasn’t sure I should be the one to do it, but, you know, so I think he was more a little bit like, This is too crazy, right? But then he got so good at like once he’s and he’s and it goes like 120% and like gives more than you’d ever expect. And he did get it. I think he just needed to like meet all of us and be sure of the tone and the people he was working with. Mullally’s down to clown. She’s she’ll do fucking anything. She is so funny and wild. She tells it.


Josh Sharp She told us the story of when she’s on, when she’s on Parks and Recreation. She got a pass as Nick Offerman is like ex-wife. And the first her first shot was like Nick and her had, like, rekindled their sexual dynamic and were like, pulling into a parking lot and then going into a hotel motel to fuck. And she just chose to, like, rip off her shirt and be completely topless and run in. And and they were all like, I guess that she did that. That was her first shot. And they’re like, Wow, Megan, welcome to SAS. So she’s pretty wild. She’s like, She’s a true clown. Like, she’s ready.


Ira Madison III I have to imagine working on this, you know, project for years. And then it being the film that you made and this being, you know, your turn to take a page from The Parent Trap, which is based on, you know, the credits of that movie says and introducing Lindsay Lohan, you know, like this is introducing Aaron and George to the world. So like, where do you even go next? Like what? What is it that you. Are there other stage shows that you’ve done? Is there just something else that you’re like, We want to continue working on projects together or things separately?


Josh Sharp Let me say real quick, Ira, we did also want to do and introducing Aaron and Josh in the movie as a joke because they were like, it’s like we’re little girls and we’re in our mid 30s. And of course when we pitched that, they’re a joke. It’s like a whole contractual thing. Like, Well, you know, Nathan certainly got the width and bones, got the like, you know, that’s all contracts. Wow. Mean that like lawyers had to let us be allowed to say an interview.


Aaron Jackson Like, it’s funny.


Josh Sharp Funny, Like we’re not even doing it for the credits. It’s just funny to advertise us like we are. Hayley Mills.


Josh Sharp Yeah.


Aaron Jackson Fully in our mid thirties.


Josh Sharp But no, I think we just want to keep making crazy weird stuff. We have like other another script set up with A24 that we hope we shoot next year. But you know the bills. But I think like broadly speaking, we just like love that this process allowed us to make something that shouldn’t have been made. So the more that we can like keep making these wacky, weird little singular projects, I think we’re happy.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm.


Louis Virtel It must be said also that you guys have an insane musical brain. Quickly. I remember the first time I saw you. I was in New York for three months when I worked on Billy on the Street. And you did a show, and you combine these songs, if I’m remembering correctly, like this by Kelly Rowland with Michelle Williams is When Jesus Say Yes Song and I did.


Josh Sharp So close, Kisses Down Low.


Louis Virtel Kisses down It was kisses download.


Aaron Jackson When Jesus Say Yes.


Louis Virtel Okay. I mean, I hope more of that is to come. That’s all I can say.


Aaron Jackson Yeah. We’re just very vaudevillian types. So we hosted this standup show for years, but we were always like, Well, let’s sing of course, and have a full band. And like, I like we just love, I don’t know, like, and not a show, but not a show. Very our human Muppets, really. And that’s like, I think, style, sensibility. It’s sort of all of it.


Ira Madison III I love that because we, you know, we had Jinx and BenDeLaCreme on the show last week.


Josh Sharp Oh my God. The best.


Ira Madison III And we they were talking specifically about how they love, you know, vaudeville, but they also love actors of actors of yor, you know, Louis repertoire because they were people who had to be. Yeah. People they’d have people who had to be triple threat. You know, there were singers, there were dancers. They could act as well. And I found that particularly gay comedy. Now, you know, there’s also there’s U2, there’s Matt Rogers and stuff as well. I find that gay comedy now leans so much into being musical as well. It’s not just I’m gay and I’m a standup. It’s also I’m doing a lot on stage because I’m making sure that I’m keeping the audience entertained for this entire thing, you know? How did you find your way to that?


Louis Virtel Well, I just.


Josh Sharp I was like a theater kid, but then got into comedy because I was like, I don’t really know that I want to do this anymore. But you still, like, love that. I always when I would go see standup shows, I was just like, This is so boring. It’s just like even when it’s funny, it’s like and now like, also like gay people and women will, like, dress, but it’s like you just go see people in like jeans and an ugly shirt standing in an ugly room. I was like, Where’s the show? You know. Give me a show.


Aaron Jackson What did I $8 for?


Josh Sharp Yeah, yeah. So there’s that. But Judy Garland has this quote where someone was interviewing her about her concerts and how, like crazy she has that she just is like, I like to go out there and give them 2 hours of POW.


Aaron Jackson And that’s that’s just sometimes how I feel. I want to give them pow.


Louis Virtel She only died of 2 hours of POW.


Josh Sharp I guess maybe more than two. Yeah, Ira, you’re right. But also like Nathan Lane is like.


Aaron Jackson And Megan.


Josh Sharp Such a prime. Yeah, both of them. Yeah. Cause Megan can fucking sing, but it’s always Nathan feel so vaudevillian in a way that to me, that’s like, this shouldn’t work in the modern era, and yet it absolutely does in a way that’s, like, so sublime. And Meghan, too, she’s a, she’s a she likes to put on a show, you know? Yeah, it’s fun. I wish there was more of that. So maybe. Maybe if we queers can do it, it’ll come back. But it is. It is like a corner of entertainment I miss. In a way.


Louis Virtel It must be said, this is just a one of a kind movie. So if you want to see a movie like this, you can’t see another one. You have to go see Dicks the Musical. Thank you guys both for being here. You’re obviously dreams, and I can’t believe this is your first time on the show. A fucking thank you for being here.


Josh Sharp Thank you for having us. It’s an honor.


Ira Madison III Oops, she did it again. Britney Spears is back with another book, this time a tell all memoir where she’s dropping stories from the bottom of her broken heart, including some scathing revelations about a certain toxic ex-boyfriend. A bit of a womanizer, if you will.


Louis Virtel Anything else? Go on?


Ira Madison III Well, all I can say is, baby, give me more.


Louis Virtel Okay. And you had it. From The Bottom Of My Broken Heart video, by the way. Very cute. A very winning Britney Spears performance.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Never looked back, he said. But perfect song.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, Right. I for a minute I thought that was the one directed by her. But it’s the video. That’s not that. That’s. Don’t Let Me Be The Last to Know. Also a good video. Anyway.


Ira Madison III I mean, the man in that video.


Louis Virtel Jesus. No, it’s painful. You can’t even bring it up. Stop it. Okay. Anyway.


Ira Madison III She used to have the hottest men in her music video.


Louis Virtel Definitely. Sometimes.


Ira Madison III But the girls aren’t doing it like her.


Louis Virtel No, no, no, no. Okay, so this book obviously just came out, so we’re skimming the surface of it. The first excerpt that has hit Twitter, she recounts a moment hanging out with Justin. And apparently he’s just he’s discovering what I’ll call the vernacular.


Ira Madison III We’re talking a A.A.V.E.


Louis Virtel Yes. He’s that’s not extra virgin olive oil, by the way. He runs into literally Genuine on the street. And he.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel He greets him with yo, yo, yo or whatever, and then.


Ira Madison III Fo shiz, fo shiz.


Louis Virtel Remember the era of fo shiz? You would just be saying that?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Fo shizzle my nizzle was an era. Living in Milwaukee, hearing white people say that constantly was was stressful to my soul.


Louis Virtel I bet.


Ira Madison III And that is from Justin’s era of I’ve worn a couple, you know, on the show before because I’m very into vintage FUBU shirts now. But that was the era where Justin was wearing FUBU as well. Justin was wearing Nautica. He was wearing do rags. Yeah, right.


Louis Virtel Like when he said, for us, by us, we don’t mean the residents of Celebration, Florida or wherever you’re fucking from.


Ira Madison III Justin was carrying in the early 2000. There was there was a period where he was obviously Britney points out, too, that NSYNC was more. Into hip hop and R&B.


Louis Virtel She says that we agree with that because I feel like the Backstreet Boys were very like like their debut singles We’ve Got It Going On, which I think is very I don’t want to call it hip hop, but, you know. A hat tip, a fedora tip to hip hop, if you will.


Ira Madison III I feel like they were more R&B laden in their first album, but I feel like once you got to. Millennium, and then you got to.


Louis Virtel Yeah, that’s pretty pop.


Ira Madison III They were pretty pop and pretty much ready made for easy listening radio.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Uh huh.


Ira Madison III N’SYNC leaned harder into They worked with Kandi Burruss, you know, they worked with Timberland, Nelly. I think they were really geared more toward.


Louis Virtel That is kind of true.That is kind of true


Ira Madison III You know, the youth market with hip hop. And they dressed the part, too.


Louis Virtel By the way. So obviously the audiobook of this memoir is also out. Michelle Williams, five time Oscar nominee, Dawson’s Creek alumna, is the one reading.


Ira Madison III Hearing  her say fo shiz, fo shiz, that is, can she win an Oscar for that?


Louis Virtel She got to win it for something.


Ira Madison III She’s got to get a Grammy, at least for this, it’ll be nominated.


Louis Virtel Did I voice my theory about why she got picked for this?


Ira Madison III No, please do.


Louis Virtel My thing is, I think the last time Britney Spears really, really paid attention to pop culture was in the late nineties. And she was you know, she was somebody I remember she made a reference to Lauryn Hill on The X Factor once, and it was like not appropriate. It was like, that’s just the last time she remembers music anyway. And I feel like she was probably a huge Dawson’s Creek person, so she probably members Michelle Williams from that and also remembers her playing Marilyn Monroe. So that combination probably got her the gig. That said, listening to Michelle Williams read this audiobook, she does a good job with it. Like she doesn’t overplay any of it. It’s it’s not like character work on her part. That said, it is she has such a refined and actorly tone that it is a little funny all the time. That’s all I have to say.


Ira Madison III It is, you know. It feels like it feels like Britney is is dead. And we’re reading like I’m listening to a Masterpiece Theater rendition of her life.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right.


Ira Madison III It doesn’t doesn’t feel and maybe that’s I get that Britney starts out with it’s too raw to read and that’s why she passed it off after the intro. I’m sure that’s 100% the reason why she did not do this audiobook. I’m sure that is absolutely 100% the reason. And not that she just didn’t want to sit in there recording an audiobook. By the way, though, you.


Louis Virtel Know, she does give you the first like 3 minutes of the book or whatever an introduction before she hands it off to Michelle Williams. I forget that even though she is on Instagram and posts videos of herself, I don’t know that I really hear her voice all that often. I am kind of loving her, like extremely scratchy. She’s like this like Harvey Fire’s Britney voice I got.


Ira Madison III Yeah. So obviously I downloaded it. And right there in the library next to it is Mariah Carey’s audiobook, and which, by the way, this audiobook is 5 Hours. I saw that Mariah Carey’s audiobook is 12 hours. That was a long ass audiobook, but that was so riveting and so glad it came out during quarantine because I was listening at home, driving around. I’m just going on drives and back in L.A. to listen to it. Just because I wanted to listen to it and get out of the house, you know? So I do wish that Britney had been able to do the whole thing because it would have been fun to hear her voice and hear her sort of maybe do some character work, especially because we just got a. Released video of her audition tape for The Notebook, and everyone has been so shocked that she was good at reading these lines. I was like, Well, first of all, she was good in Crossroads.


Louis Virtel I would say her performance in it reminds me of Crossroads. It’s not dissimilar to, you know.


Ira Madison III I think I think it was a great audition tape, too. It’s not like she was Oscar winning or anything, but she would have been entirely appropriate for many romantic comedies of that ilk in the 2000s if she had so chosen. And she also revealed that she was offered a role in Chicago in the cellblock Tango, but she had turned it down, and she wishes that she had been more ballsy and made more weirder choices back then.


Louis Virtel I do have to say. So watching the audition clip and she’s like, you know, palpably emotional and believable in a certain way, it stops there. I would say. Like people are kind of like flying off the deep end, being like, Oh, she’s so good. She’s so much better than she has to be. No, she is not nearly as good as Rachel McAdams. I mean, like, it would be crazy if they didn’t cast her in this film. I just want to say that. But it is you just forget that she would have been even up for something like that or that would have been interesting to her in a way. So it’s like already there are like I mean.


Ira Madison III From that era of Beyoncé when she was back in like Pink Panther or.


Louis Virtel Like the Fighting Temptation.


Ira Madison III Fighting Temptation that you forget that you forget that one, they’re about the same age. Yeah. And so they were both in that era of they were those stars coming out like Usher as well, and Christina Aguilera. And they were being offered roles then. And I just think that it’s interesting because now I feel like we don’t see as much of that of our current pop stars being offered roles like that or anything. Maybe it’s also because the current younger pop stars are like Olivia Rodrigo or Miley Cyrus or. Ariana Grande. I guess they started in entertainment as actors and then they got away from it.


Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.


Ira Madison III And we haven’t had big blow out stars who’ve been. Oh, well, now let’s see if they can act.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. Yeah. Because it’s all mixed in there. Are we starting out doing 50 things like these Disney Channel kids are stuck in a fucking bubble chamber doing all that shit.


Ira Madison III And does it even mean anything anymore with the box office and with streaming and everything? Does it mean anything for a huge mega pop star to be in a fucking movie anymore? Unless they really want. Unless they’re Lady Gaga and they really want to be an actor. But does it even make sense?


Louis Virtel You’re right. No, it’s a good question. That said, I don’t think we should forget. I think somebody who has the potential to be a really good actor. And I don’t know if she’s auditioning or what, but she’s conquered so much of the entertainment industry already. Billie Eilish on Swarm was better than good. She was really, really fucking good. And so I hope that happens for also to something about her in general is like it’s rare that you see someone you’re like, I am positive you are wise and she is one of those people.


Ira Madison III I thought you were going to say Miss Bailey.


Louis Virtel No, No. Yes.


Ira Madison III But they’re already acting. Both of those sisters.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. No, no. Who would. Who would have doubted that she could act? Right, right, right.


Ira Madison III Yeah. No, I love Billie Eilish and that. Let’s get her in. Let’s get her in a horror movie.


Louis Virtel Yes, That would be awesome.


Ira Madison III She could be. She has a very Nev Campbell esque quality to her.


Louis Virtel By the way. Could be a villain, too. Well, in in swarms, she has this sort of bewitching quality. Like, are we? We don’t know what we’re getting from her. Is she good? Is she bad? I mean, it all comes out, but it was fascinating. I didn’t expect to be fascinated by her as an actor. You know, like watching Lady Gaga in A Star is Born. I thought she was successfully, quote unquote, stripped down. But I don’t know that I was fascinated with what I was seeing on screen. Whereas Billie Eilish, something intriguing there.


Ira Madison III Went until The Joker Two.


Louis Virtel My God, what do we get? That is the answer ever, because it’s already been years.


Ira Madison III Comes out next year.


Louis Virtel And also Joaquin is already in that Napoleon movie that looks baffling, but. All right. The rise of Vanessa Kirby, I’ll allow it.


Ira Madison III I saw a trailer for that and I was like, okay. Ridley Scott.


Louis Virtel Right. You know, it’s just giving you.


Ira Madison III He just makes movies, doesn’t he?


Louis Virtel He’s like, It looks like a movie and somebody’s got to make a Napoleon movie. May as well be me.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And with the last couple of films, he pretty much just sets up the camera and says, Go ahead


Louis Virtel You have fun now. Christopher Plummer, go, go hm.


Ira Madison III All right, so.


Louis Virtel All right, back to back to Britney Spears. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Well, I mean, Ridley Scott and For The Love Of Money. Michelle Williams.


Louis Virtel Right. It all comes back this year. And Will and Mark Wahlberg, of course. Yeah. No. Also, I just want to say I brought this up at the beginning of the podcast. It is interesting just to hear the sustained anger of this book like Britney Spears talks about, like.


Ira Madison III She’s mad.


Louis Virtel The things in her upbringing that made her happy and continue to make her happy. But it really is it feels like a a therapeutic release for her. And I think her fans are constantly hoping she gets that and maybe have assumed she already did have that. But I feel like there’s like a tone in this book that is like surprisingly commanding. You know, like, you can’t look away. You know, she talks about like the alcoholism in her family, how her grandmother killed herself. So there’s like it’s like it goes hard pretty immediately, too.


Ira Madison III It places her specifically in a place and time and positions her family dynamic in a way that you really start to see who Britney is in a new light. Yes. And I also loved hearing about her, her grandmother, who was from London and sort of had been brought here by her grandfather. And she hated New Orleans. But the grandfather was like clearly what she thought, that her grandfather would never let her grandmother go back to London because she might never come back. Something like that. But wow, she describes how she used to love impersonating her grandmother’s British accent, which makes so much sense when you think about.


Louis Virtel You are so right.


Ira Madison III Those paparazzi videos where she would impersonate the British accent all the time. It was her disappearing back into her childhood to get out of all of that.


Louis Virtel Also, don’t forget about Scream and Shout. That’s a that’s a British accent on the record.


Ira Madison III Don’t call the Governor.


Louis Virtel No, wait. That’s Work, Bitch.


Ira Madison III Oh, that’s right. Scream and shout. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Are are Scream and Shout is one of my favorite like.


Ira Madison III Will.I.Am.


Louis Virtel It’s like a half step above baby shark and I am in. It’s like baby shark for horny adults. Yeah.


Ira Madison III But otherwise I’m having a great time reading this book so far. I got up this morning and read about several chapters of it and skimmed through some others. And people have been sharing audio book clips online. And I’m going to switch to the audiobook now so I can really take all of Michelle Williams in, but so many fun anecdotes.


Louis Virtel I have to say, I think the audiobook is the definitive experience of this. I think it should be listened to. Ultimately, before we tie this up, pick your all time favorite Britney Spears song.


Ira Madison III All time favorite?


Louis Virtel Yeah. Only one. I don’t want to hear. Well, it’s between this, this and this. No, no, no. This is a this is an urgent situation. You can only pick one.


Ira Madison III I think it’s Slave For You.


Louis Virtel A turn in her. I would say a Slave For You. I’m a Slave For You is what is what? What’s My Name was for Rihanna where it bridges the old idea of her and the new. You know, it’s like it had the pop in it and then it became the R&B, real sexy or music.


Ira Madison III I think just the lure of that song, too, if you recall that that debuted at the VMAs. Yes. So that was one of the first times a megastar like that. We there was no lead up to it. There was no playing it on the radio. It it dropped at the VMAs. They teased it. They teased it in rehearsal. There were clips, sketches of her rehearsing for the VMAs because Jamie Foxx was hosting that year of her in a studio. And you would hear the opening sort of beat of it, and he was pretending to dance with her. I remember all of this, and that was teasing the song. And then you heard the song for the first time, and then the song also leaked the audio version from the show with the whip in it, the live version. And I was so disappointed when The Whip wasn’t on the album, but that song never went to number one.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III And it’s also because if you recall, those VMAs were one week before 911.


Louis Virtel Yes, yes, yes, yes. The old will the four defense. I would have been bigger. That 911 not happened. Yes, yes, yes. If I had to pick a favorite.


Ira Madison III I’m A Slave For You, obviously for you was big, but I felt like it could have been bigger and had more promotion if the week after wasn’t.


Louis Virtel It’s an incredible song. I


Ira Madison III Covered up by our government.


Louis Virtel I have to go with sometimes ultimately because I think the innocence of the record is just well conveyed by her. You I mean also just that era like when she emerged. She was so fun and so like she come on TRL and there’s something just so pacifying the giddy about her at the time I just I will never forget like being in middle school when she came out feeling like, oh, she’s like a big middle schooler, you know, like I, I just concurred with who she was.


Ira Madison III And she looked cool. She dress cool. She felt like you wanted to be friends with her.


Louis Virtel Approachable.


Ira Madison III Lyrics that sometimes are. Bring back fun pop songs like that. I mean, you still listen to sometimes and it conveys everything that you would feel falling in love with someone, having a crush on someone not wanting them to know.


Louis Virtel Like a summer crush. Yeah. Very adorable song.


Ira Madison III And that video on the pier, the shot in L.A., that is is so. It’s so cute.


Louis Virtel Yes. No, it’s it’s I think it’s the cutest music video of all time. I would be interested to hear what other nominees in this in this racket.


Ira Madison III Sometimes I run, sometimes I hide. Sometimes I’m scared of you. That is. That is cute personified, right?


Louis Virtel No, I mean, like Sandra Dee could never. You know what I’m saying?


Ira Madison III That hussy. All right. All right. When we’re back Keep It.


Louis Virtel And we’re back with the most esteemed segment of the episode. Its Keep It the titular team. And we’re here with it.


Ira Madison III You sound like Michelle.


Louis Virtel Thank you. For shiz.  Ira, you’re going to go first this week. What is your Keep It about?


Ira Madison III Okay. So going back to the SAG after a Halloween guidelines. Ryan Reynolds made a joke about it, which I thought was kind of amusing.


Louis Virtel He spends a lot of his time on Twitter making little quips. Right? Sort of what he does. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Him and Nick Liman. Yeah.


Louis Virtel You know. Nick Liman is your reference? Gay guy, look him up. Yeah.


Ira Madison III He’s the gay Ryan Reynolds.


Louis Virtel I’ll think about that sometime. Okay. Moving on.


Ira Madison III I could see Blake Lively marrying Nick.


Louis Virtel Interesting choice for her. Actually, we can talk about Blake Lively’s acting career sometime. Remember, she played a blind woman in something called All I See is you look it up. She was good. Anyway.


Ira Madison III What was the Kylie song the theme of the movie?


Louis Virtel And now. Oh, my God, that would be so good. I love that fucking song from the album Ex. Yeah.


Ira Madison III She doesn’t have enough days on her team to do something fun like that.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right, right. And gays loved in that fucking Anna Kendrick.


Ira Madison III Super simple.


Louis Virtel Simple Favor. Yeah. So anyway, get on that. Anyway, Ira, go ahead.


Ira Madison III All right. So he made a comment. I look forward to screaming scab at my eight year old all night. She’s not in the union, but she needs to learn what is funny. Yeah. Yeah, but then someone quote, tweeted this when No. Ryan Reynolds is the world’s greatest movie star and that he’s more famous than God but hasn’t starred in anything you could call good. And let me tell you something. What we’re not going to do is cover Ray Rice’s acting career. Oh, okay. Okay. First of all, smoking, aces, erasure. Okay.


Louis Virtel I think that movie sucks ass, but. Okay.


Ira Madison III What the fuck is wrong with you?


Louis Virtel Oh, honey. Excuse me. I was a R.A. in a dorm full of boys, and I put on movie nights, and I’m like, All right, kids, pick something. And Grandpa put it on the VCR for you. And they were like, We love Smokin Aces, Louis. And I was like, All right, that doesn’t sound like, you know, Rear Window to me, but I’ll give it a shot. Put it the fuck on. Girl is Alicia Keys and that movie for 2 seconds.


Ira Madison III Alicia Keys, Taraji P Henson.


Louis Virtel They’re all failing. I’m sorry. I was watching this movie in despair. In despair I watched.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Ray Liotta.


Louis Virtel Okay, They did their best.


Ira Madison III Carmen While he can’t act. Yeah, I think that this is the Boondocks. Thanks.


Louis Virtel But it sure is. And they also watch that fucking piece of shit. Oh.


Ira Madison III Well, listen.


Louis Virtel I hope I painted a picture for everybody. If that was the cinematic universe, I was a wash and letting little boys feel fucking seen at the University of Iowa. Yeah.


Ira Madison III I’ve got to mention some other good things that he has been in.


Louis Virtel All right.


Ira Madison III Well, he doesn’t star in this, so we can’t count Dick. But that’s an amazing movie.


Louis Virtel Duh. Duh. That’s a great movie.


Ira Madison III Blade Trinity.


Louis Virtel All right, I’ll leave that to you.


Ira Madison III It’s good.


Louis Virtel Okay.


Ira Madison III It’s good. It’s good. Okay. And the trilogy is great. I will also say The Nines is a good movie.


Louis Virtel Never seen. I’m surprised you didn’t say Isn’t Waiting good? I remember watching that at the time. It’s kind of funny, but unpretentious.


Ira Madison III Yeah. The Proposal.


Louis Virtel There we go.


Ira Madison III Sandy Hook, that is. That is a classic, actually. Like Sandy was doing the damn thing with that movie.


Louis Virtel And of course, that was the beginning of the Betty White renaissance, too, which was surprisingly lasting.


Ira Madison III Yeah, up until last year. Mm hmm. Didn’t you die last year or this year?


Louis Virtel The end of the previous year.


Ira Madison III Hmm. Allegedly. Yeah.


Louis Virtel She’s just probably up and walking around right now playing super password by herself.


Ira Madison III She’s with Tupac


Louis Virtel You know what I have to say? Wakanda Forever.


Ira Madison III Wait, I did not mention this in the Scorsese the segment, but when they’re saying in the film, Wa-kan-ta?


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. I was like, I know. It’s like in Wakanda in here.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I was like, not Scorsese with his Marvel hatred, throwing, throwing this Easter egg in there.


Louis Virtel By the way, I know we’ve talked about this before, his interviews still so fucking good. I mean, just like he’s got such sharp memory for, like, every fucking movie. Like, he can’t stop talking about it. I love that shit. Love that shit. I am now going to give a shady Keep It to Martin Scorsese, if that’s okay.


Ira Madison III Hmm. Go ahead. I also just want to say that the movie Buried is quite good.


Louis Virtel Oh, right. The one where it’s all he’s in a. tomb


Ira Madison III He’s has the cell phone and he’s buried alive. Yeah. Yeah. So and lastly, Two guys, A girl, And A Pizza Place.


Louis Virtel I completely like origin story.


Ira Madison III I rest my case.


Louis Virtel Too proud.


Ira Madison III The defense rests. The defense rests.


Louis Virtel I love TV shows that go through a title change. So that’s so something of the past that would never happen anymore. Now comes my measly and persnickety Scorsese a bone to pick my Keep It to the fact that Marco says he has so many actors he uses again and again. And that’s a part of what we like about him. You’re like, Oh, eventually he’s going to come up with another Leonardo DiCaprio movie. Eventually he’s going to come out with another Robert De Niro movie. He has barely ever used an actress more than one time. Like, I don’t think Ellen Burstyn is in anything, but Alice doesn’t live here anymore. After winning the Oscar, Cate Blanchett never appeared again. I, if I remember correctly, Barbara Hershey is in both Boxcar Bertha from the early seventies, and she’s in The Last Temptation of Christ, too. But I mean, she’s not. That’s an interesting technicality. Well, Gibbs, he should have there should be Scorsese, the actresses he uses again and again. You know, where’s what’s up with Lorraine Bracco? What’s up with you know, I love Winona Ryder in Age of Innocence. Would have been lovely to see her again.


Ira Madison III Maybe they shouldn’t have been bitches on set, Louis.


Louis Virtel Now, these were originally Kathy Moriarity.


Ira Madison III Was a real cunt in Raging Bull. Okay. I’m kidding.


Louis Virtel One of the most.


Ira Madison III I would love for him to reuse some of these women, actually, because I feel like there’s always that thing online where people are talking about does he. Right. Make films for women? And, you know, people bring up the great roles he’s had for women. Sharon fucking Stone in Casino, which is, yes, which is up there is maybe maybe my second favorite Scorsese film after Gangs of New York. I’m I’m off kilter. Yeah. My favorite films of his but. I would love to see Jodie Foster again. I would love to see Winona Ryder again.


Louis Virtel By the way, it must be said, Jodie Foster is also in Nyad. Best performance she’s given in years. I’ll be honest, I’d kind of fallen out of love with Jodie Foster. Like I think I saw her be bad. Oh, yes. Do you remember that movie Carnage based off God of Carnage that Roman Polanski directed bad Jodie Foster performance? And I sort of was like, all right, She picked, you know, should brilliant child actress had a couple of dynamite adult roles and now, you know, she’s not as good anymore. No, she is back. She really grounded the movie. So I’m really excited. She’s good in this movie. Maybe a nomination.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, I just said Winona Ryder and Michelle Pfeiffer in fucking Age of Innocence. All right. And along with Daniel Day-Louis, too, I mean, he’s retired or whatever.


Louis Virtel But is he? Girl, you know, he’s sitting around reading, like, poetry and stuff. He’s got time. Come on back.


Ira Madison III Get Winona and Michelle back on screen together in a new Scorsese film. I would love that.


Louis Virtel By the way. And if he wants to adapt another like early 20th century novel or whatever, I think he’s like, really attuned to that kind of dialog.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, the Victorian era is sort of he’s. I feel like he’s made for that.


Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III I have, I have an adjacent Keep It. Speaking of Scorsese again, his women.


Louis Virtel Oh, go ahead.


Ira Madison III Obviously, Fran Lebowitz.


Louis Virtel I knew it was coming.


Ira Madison III And Fran Lebowitz.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III It’s funny, Josh and Aaron said, I was. We’re joking about how now that I record the show in New York, you always hear the sounds of New York in the background and joking that I’m Fran and you’re Marty, But. I have a Keep It about Fran Lebowitz interviews. Yeah, because you just did one with Interview magazine and. I’m a little bit tired of hearing about the fact that she doesn’t use the Internet.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III Can you put that out there? That she doesn’t use the Internet? She doesn’t have a phone. I feel like we know that about her already and I don’t find it interesting any more. I find that she doesn’t find it interesting to talk about anymore. It’s like, what else is going on?


Louis Virtel I have to say, it’s tricky to interview her because she you can almost predict what she’ll be dismissive about or what she’ll be kind of curt about. And you have to watch for those traps because she’s not going to she’s not going to help you out. You know what I mean? So when people ask these questions and they get kind of repetitive, it’s like you should have known. Should have known, she’ll just give you that sort of answer.


Ira Madison III I honestly feel like what I loved about the Interview magazine interview actually was she actually had a great quote where she said she was asked about what contemporary writers she loves and she says she loves a lot of writers. She reads a lot, but she’s not friends with a lot of writers because no one should be friends with too many writers.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III But. She said that if people bought books like she did, then books would still be making a shit ton of money. And I feel like I would love an interview about what she’s been reading, you know, And maybe she would have to agree to that, like what authors she’s been reading or like what books she loves, what culture she loves, because obviously. Not to say that the interview was bad at all. Like, she had some very I thought it was actually a really great interview with her. Unlike Interviews magazine with Britney Spears ex-husband, Sam.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III For some fucking reason. Thirsty for clicks they were this week. But I have to say that she loves culture, obviously, but she’s so tied into culture that’s pre-Internet. And I just would love to know what she’s read, what she loves, what movies she likes. I know Jeremy Harris told me that she was at a screening of Flowers of the Killer Moon and.


Louis Virtel Like Killers of the Flower Moon.


Ira Madison III Flowers of the Killer Moon is the sequel.


Louis Virtel Okay.


Ira Madison III You thought they were dead.


Louis Virtel But now they’re alive. No, no.


Ira Madison III But she was, like, leaning forward, like, the whole time, enraptured by this film. Like, I just want to hear her talk about some movies, some books, some shit, you know, that she loved.


Louis Virtel I completely agree. Because Fran Lebowitz is most interesting when talking about matters of taste and not just talking about like the things like nineties standups grouse about, like, I don’t like she’s like when she talks about like people walking slowly on a sidewalk, I’m like, Girl, we did this stand up in 1997. I don’t need to be hearing about that like this. Like get into like she talked about like going to like the ballet all the time. Like, yeah, let’s talk about that. She was funny with fucking Charles Mingus. Like, I love that shit. Talk about like, and like, talk about the people who actually made you change your mind because that is like, obviously the big trick with Fran Lebowitz. She’s immovable, but I don’t think that’s true.


Ira Madison III Yeah. And also, I’m tired of hearing about celebrities who don’t have to read email or have a cell phone anymore. I would. That’s that is actually the only thing. Not the only thing, but that is one of the biggest things I’m jealous of that comes with celebrity, Right? Because I would love to never read an email.


Louis Virtel No. Like Emma Stone, she’s like, Don’t even tell me what Instagram is. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Like big. Being in that realm of the world sounds beautiful.


Louis Virtel Yeah. No. Yeah. Pacific. You can go hide away.


Ira Madison III There was a Scorsese interview recently where he was like, email. Like, I don’t I don’t really read it. I was reading them recently and it’s it’s you look at the CC and there’s so many people on it. Who are these people are.


Louis Virtel Oh, that’s amazing. That’s so fun.


Ira Madison III That’s me with the Keep It email. Who are you?


Louis Virtel Who is that? Yeah.


Ira Madison III Anyway, that’s our show this week.


Louis Virtel I really enjoyed these topics. I got to get back into this memoir though.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m going to go on late. Some candles. Listen. Listen to this memoir. I hope my house doesn’t burn down like Brittany almost at that one time.


Louis Virtel Yes, right. I’ll put I’ll put how I roll. One of my favorite Britney B-sides on Let that simmer.


Ira Madison III You didn’t say your favorite, Britney? No.


Louis Virtel Sometimes.


Ira Madison III Sometimes.


Louis Virtel That’s right.


Ira Madison III Right, right, right. But How I Roll is a good second.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Good weirdo song from the album Femme Fatale, if I’m not mistaken.


Ira Madison III Femme Fatale, very underrated.


Louis Virtel Yes, yes, yes.


Ira Madison III Inside Out on that album, too. Great song. Perfect song. All right. Thanks to Josh and Aaron for being here. And we will see you next week.


Ira Madison III Keep It as a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord, and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, and Louis Virtel.


Louis Virtel This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Megan Patzel and Rachel Gaewski, and to Matt DeGroot and David Toles for production support every week.


Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It is recorded in front of a live studio audience.