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Ira and Louis discuss the legacies of Christine McVie and Irene Cara, the more complicated legacy of Kirstie Alley, Sight & Sounds’ latest 100 Greatest Films of All Time list, Glass Onion’s frustratingly brief theatrical run, and everyone’s obsession with AI filters. Plus, Jim Parsons joins to discuss his new film Spoiler Alert and his other queer roles in cinema.

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison the third.

 

Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel, and I literally was worried about being out of practice. It has been simply a long time since I’ve spoken at all. I’m like Holly Hunter on the piano. Not a peep has come out of me since last episode.

 

Ira Madison III It has been a significant amount of time since we’ve been on the air, which is which is wild. Because I remember when we never took a day off ever.

 

Louis Virtel No. In fact, we used to do multiple episodes a week. I definitely did not have more thoughts to compensate for how much more time we spent on the air. So I don’t know what I said or what went down. By the way, you know what else I’ve been thinking about? When I set up my laptop for this because we film the episodes every week. I use some books to put my laptop on, and we always I always use this book that we got because Antoni from Queer Eye was here his like dinner recipes book, and I barely glanced at the title when I use it. And the name of the book is Antoni Let’s Do Dinner. But the let’s do is in such a small font that it looks just like nothing. It looks like it says at. So I always assumed the book was called Antoni at Dinner, which I think is very lovely. I think he should have called it that. He’s like, Beatrice.

 

Ira Madison III Um I, you know, I’d almost forgotten about that era where we did two episodes a week ago.

 

Louis Virtel Again I would love to know what we said or what nerve we had.

 

Ira Madison III That was definitely a journey.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, we’re back. And a lot has occurred. A lot has occurred. We have, unfortunately, we’ll get to that in a minute. But I have an early keep it gripe most because I spent Thanksgiving in Europe. But for the first time ever, my luggage was lost and this has truly never happened to me before, ever. And so like I was always like, oh, I’m one of those people who is going to be able to avoid it. But I had no luggage for like a week wandering the streets of Prague, which really felt like I was embracing the Bohemian experience.

 

Louis Virtel Right no, getting very literal about being bohemian. And also this feels like the beginning of like a rom com somebody pitches, right, like no luggage in Prague starring Jude Law or whomever.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. But the actual title, No Luggage in Prague sounds a porn.

 

Louis Virtel And I would watch that too.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, it was it was dealt with. But I have a bone to pick with Delta, so.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my God, you sound like you sound like a 9th place drag queen complaining about Delta Airlines right now. I’m really excited. Half of Twitter is drag queens yelling at Delta, if you didn’t know.

 

Ira Madison III But this is this is actually just going to turn to the Delta Work’s podcast where she complains about things.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right. That’s a that’s a good living for her. I’ve been proud of Delta Work ever since she went viral for all that ranting and stuff.

 

Ira Madison III Plus, it reminded me of  so I was recently rewatching these two clips of one Barbara on The View and another of Don Lemon on CNN. And I miss the era of anchors complaining publicly about people who’ve aggrieved them, because Barbara complains on this episode of The View that Lindsay Lohan canceled an interview with her and then instead decided to skip out and go to Jay Leno and Don Lemon’s that same week was him complaining about an interaction he’d had with Jonah Hill that he said was Jonah Hill was rude to him and thought he was the help at a hotel.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, I know exactly what you mean. First of all, that has always been something that Kathy Griffin was in on the ground floor about, like pointing out the weird things about Barbara Walters, because she was really like we treated Barbara Walters like she was some ivory tower academic for like 30 years. And she really is like a petty dame, like somebody who’s like, oh, I remember what whomever Fidel Castro said to me that one night in 1979, I’ll never forgive him for it. She’s somebody who keeps score, if you will. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, that’s just what’s been on my mind as I’ve been thinking angrily about Delta Airlines. So we have, unfortunately, a sad episode this week partly. I am. I don’t know when this show became like the Dead Celebrity Club.

 

Louis Virtel I know I kind of didn’t want it to be. But at the same time, the celebrities keep dying, who I believe we specifically have talked about in depth. So it feels like, yeah, well, you have to say something, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Um, no, I mean, now we’re going to talk about Christine McVie this week. And truly, when I found out the news, I was at a dinner and a friend told me about it. But within their second breath, they were like, “have you checked in on Louis?”

 

Louis Virtel Also, I have to say, when this happened, first of all, the way I found out was somebody messaged me on Instagram. We’re going to need to help. You’re going to need to help us with the passing of Christine McVie. So immediately I was out. I was already supposed to know and I was behind. I think I was in rehearsal at Carmel, so I like found out on the sly. But, I mean, before we get to this conversation, I just want to say many, many people have reached out to me about it. And it was incredibly touching and just I don’t know what to say about it. I can’t stop listening to Christine McVie this past week. We’ll talk about her music and Fleetwood Mac and stuff. But I feel as much as we talk about dead celebrities on the show, I can’t think of somebody that close to, like, my, my, my, like, inner most celebrity love layer that has died. You know, like but the last one would be someone like Madeline Kahn, like that’s 1999, you know. So actually it was a bit of a shocking phenomenon to me, even though the thought occurred to me that Christine McVie was sick because she just had this large estate sale. Like I was going through her writing stuff she was selling, and I was like, This isn’t even that expensive. I’ll buy like a Christine McVie Sheen rosary and table for 100 bucks. But it was on my mind.

 

Ira Madison III I would probably say the last one that really sort of hit me. But I guess I don’t know if I can really include, like, Prince. Yeah. Whitney Houston. Mostly because they’re such mega celebrites.

 

Louis Virtel Right. They belong to everybody.

 

Ira Madison III They touched everybody.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Mm hmm.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Unless you’re like Hilton Als, you know, who just broke his, like novela on Prince, you know, like, unless, you know, like, or I think of stuff like a writer like Nicole Parker, you know, like someone who, like Prince is very much part of their identity, but those people belong to everyone. And so, yeah, we’ll talk about Christine. We’re going to talk about Irene Cara.

 

Louis Virtel Depressing. When I heard that, I was like, I just don’t want to hear this. Like, she’s not that old and it’s very annoying. In addition to devastating.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Also, Kirstie Alley passed away truly last night.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III So that that managed to not be like everyone online who’s R.I.P. to Kirstie Alley. Every single one starts with politics aside, dot dot dot and I’m like girl we get it.

 

Louis Virtel And also, by the way, that is beyond generous to say it was only politics. That was her problem. The woman was fucking unhinged. I’m sorry. It remains the same in death.

 

Ira Madison III Is that legacy motive for a different class president? Yeah, right. Like there was a lot. There’s a lot going on with Miss Kirstie Alley. So we’ll talk about that. And then Sight and sound released, their 100 greatest films list. And it caused controversy all throughout the film industry. And truly, I actually love when film critics get upset about names. That’ll be fun to talk about.

 

Louis Virtel No, I love I love the the the sound of wounded man. It just that’s what the Internet is, you know what I mean? So it’s really embracing its identity by squealing that whatever was that psycho are not psycho. But Vertigo wasn’t number one or Citizen Kane wasn’t number one.

 

Ira Madison III And you famously hate Vertigo.

 

Louis Virtel You know what? I it’s I just what I don’t like about Vertigo is the creepiness of Alfred Hitchcock that I feel is onscreen in the movie. Again, when you listen to an interview with Tippi Hedren talking about her experience with Alfred Hitchcock, I feel like the feel of Vertigo is forever altered in your mind afterwards.

 

Ira Madison III And then aside from that, we have the very delightful Jim Parsons on the show this week to talk about his new film, Spoiler Alert, which is not about Marvel phase four.

 

Louis Virtel Or yeah, White Lotus and what’s going to happen the next week. My God. And I really have to avoid Twitter at all times because of these what people think about White Lotus and routinely they are extremely wrong.

 

Ira Madison III Not even just Twitter. Instagram like the minute the episode drops. There are screenshots of dialog and important moments, just like in everybody’s Instagram stories. So it’s like, it’s like truly a minefield after an episode airs, right? Which by the way, the finale airs this Sunday. So you can assume that we will be talking about White Lotus next week and whether we like season one or season two better, I already know which way I’m leaning.

 

Louis Virtel Interesting. I actually haven’t decided yet. So stay tuned.

 

Ira Madison III All right. We will be right back. With more Keep It.

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III The world just lost two incredible performers and all around legends recently with the passing of Irene Wood. But we’re going to give them their flowers in a minute. I feel like we should just address Kirstie Alley first.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, sure. I mean, let’s start with, like the things that are truly amazing about her, which is replacing Diane Chambers on Cheers is the tallest order in TV history and that she not only did it well, but never copied her for a second, never copied Shelley Long for a second, and then additionally won an Emmy for it. Rebecca Howe was like an awesome character her like she had a, a withering, sarcastic quality that made you trust her, which that quality right there is what is so vexing about Kirstie Alley because in all of her comedy performances, whether she was playing it really loud and crazy, like in Deconstructing Harry or, you know, like on Cheers, where she got to be a little bit more deadpan as Rebecca. How you there was a groundedness to her that made you believe her. So when she then turned into this conspiracy spewing very pro Scientology, you know, otherwise harmful and toxic Twitter presence, it just fucking sucked. Like, it’s it’s the kind of person who’s, like, catnip for young gay men. You know, I want that, you know, funny Lauren Bacall look and lady to be the best. And then she absolutely wasn’t the best, even though in about 2011, she went on a queer Twitter spree and followed a whole bunch of us. So I can say that a part of my life was occasionally receiving DMS from Kirstie Alley, and I know there are a bunch of other gays out there who feel the same way. And that was also like completely strange. Like what? Like you’re like a Scientologist. What? You’re talking to me. What? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III She was trying to collect and get rid of ya’ll.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I had to look out the window. I’m like, who are these people on my porch? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III What’s weird, too, is that, like, I feel like people like my mom’s generation or even slightly older people than us were fans of our just because, like, she was, you know, like Berkeley was around TV, you know, so like and especially like a sitcom like that. Like I do like a lot of like people had like one for Kirstie Alley from the Cheers era and then, you know, she had her own sitcom again, totally, you know, Veronica’s Closet. And I think Veronica’s Closet was hilarious, to be honest. I think it was. It was three seasons?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right? It’s very in the Caroline in the city era where it’s like, did it last two seasons or seven? Who knows? But they were all extremely well watch seasons since it was during that period of time where hundreds of millions watched every show every week and they were all canceled if they didn’t get 700 million.

 

Ira Madison III hahaha.

 

Louis Virtel 600 million was a no go.

 

Ira Madison III Specifically from that era where things were, I felt like they were immediately put into syndication just because the number of ratings they had before they would even get to like the 100 episodes that you needed for syndication. And so I thought like this I was always on.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, totally.

 

Ira Madison III I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring up that actress, too.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my. Fat actress. Is that bitch. What an underrated show that really showcased what she could do. You know, it’s sort of in that like lost era of pseudo prestige TV in the mid 2000s where, you know, you either had to buy it on DVD or something, you know, it’s not something you would see in syndication, for example. So definitely go back and check that out. And also, of course, the many movies in which she was hilarious, like the Look Who’s Talking movies are drop dead gorgeous, you know, lots of options.

 

Ira Madison III Like, I have no idea what she ever did, you know, like recently, like, like the day to day. But I will always remember the Stephen Hawking tweet.

 

Louis Virtel Which should be repeated here. It is one of the most surprising and hilarious and I can’t tell how intentionally funny she was being. I guess she was going for like righteous tribute. But when Stephen Hawking died. That’s right. Stephen Hawking. Kirstie Alley tweeted, “you had a good go at it. Thanks for your input.” Whatever that means. You’re just like she she assessed all his data. Yeah, we’ll deal with that later. You know.

 

Ira Madison III Some of our listeners might remember our heroing that scene was in Theory of Everything though.

 

Louis Virtel But when Felicity Jones is yelling at Kirstie Alley, she’ll lay off. All right. And getting into legacies that are far less checkered. Christine McVie passed away. Christine McVie, one of the most hitmaking songwriters for Fleetwood Mac, the keyboardist for Fleetwood Mac. She was in several versions of the band way back when it was a blues outfit in the early seventies. She moved with them through their most kind of famous period, where they produced their second self-titled album and rumors. And she left the band after they were inaugurated into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the late nineties. But she came back in the 2000 and. First of all, we can just talk about the vocals, which is to say she was this weird combination of very bluesy and traditional pop. Like she had a Carole King sensibility, which, by the way, already is a pretty shocking thing to thrust forward into a rock and roll band. But it was always interesting that somebody who had a kind of unassuming presence got to be in this larger than life outfit. You know, her her kind of simple, plain spoken sentimentality really had extra reverb thanks to, like, what Lindsay gave to it. Or, you know, it just was an interesting juxtaposition, the way she fit into the group specifically. Also, there’s something about Fleetwood Mac that I think is is just doesn’t get talked about a lot or seems obvious to those people who are fans. But like we don’t end up saying it, which is not only did this band have three great songwriters, it also had three unmistakable and very unrelated characters in it. So you’d have the Lindsey Buckingham songs, and he’s this like brooding, kind of wounded, uber masculine guy. You had Stevie Nicks, where she’s constantly lost in the throes of emotions. You know, everything that happens to Stevie Nicks is a meteorological phenomenon. You know, everything is storms, everything is a landslide. Everything is a bad day. On a weather map is what happens. And then you had Christine, who I think the magic thing about her for me and we’ve expressed this in certain ways on this podcast, but is that she really expressed the dignity and all these deep emotions, like even if you had your heart broken, it’s not like you had to wail to express that. You could you could sort of just live in it and have like a sort of sophisticated and an a respectful take about your own emotions. And I can’t even really pick a favorite song, but I will say you make loving fun is to me the Heart of the Rumors album, because as much as that’s a tumultuous album, you know, it’s about fighting with each other. It’s about these band members confronting and tearing themselves apart. To me, that song expresses why the fighting is all worth it, which is to say, at the end of the day, love, when we get it is fucking rad. And we get to like, you know, you have sex is incredible and you know, you know, when we’re experiencing these big emotions together and we find it, it’s such a fucking relief. There’s such relief in that love song. And that is always why it’ll be one of my favorite songs of all time.

 

Ira Madison III Isn’t that the one that’s not even about John, her husband at the time, right?

 

Louis Virtel Yes. They’re breaking up and the story goes. He was very curious why she was writing a jubilant love song. And she, you know, not creating drama, which is the Christine McVie way. She said, oh, it’s about the dog. And it was really about the lighting, too. It was really about their lighting director who she was having an affair with. And by the way, that lighting director stayed with them through 2019. So that just a part of the Fleetwood Mac lore.

 

Ira Madison III I loved it as a band. And I truly think that, like, you know, there’s there’s so many different areas of the world where you can sort of be like, this is my favorite area, but I feel like it means so much to different people for different sounds like, you know, I would say that Stevie is the first point that brought me into even like initially, you know, and then I really started making the Christine songs a lot. I mean, you know, little lies everywhere. I like those. That is, I’m just so enamored with like Take One Tonight as an album that seems so late in their discography. Like two decades went after Christine. Even Jordan is just like someone writing the best music of their career. The best music on Fleetwood Mac’s career. Like on What Is It like album 14.

 

Louis Virtel All right. I mean, it’s like way deep into that, you know? And they’ve done so many weird things by that point, you know, that’s well after Tusk to go after just all the iterations of Fleetwood Mac, really. But yes, on that album in particular I’ve brought up, I’m Obsessed. I am with Isn’t It Midnight, which is a Christine written song that sounds really like a Pat Benatar jam and the verve of it. To me, that’s my number one driving song. In fact, it was my number one Spotify rap song of the past year because I listen to it every time I’m driving. And that was also the day I found out Christine McVie died. So it was, like, doubly cruel. But yes, great song Everywhere is amazing. By the way, I finally broke regarding Christine McVie, like, actually had the moment where I, like, cried a bit when I got sent a cover of Everywhere That Was Live. And I want to know if you know what I’m talking about.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t actually. Who sang it?

 

Louis Virtel Paramore. Amy Williams did a version of it live and it looks like they’re on a boat or something, but this girl crushed it. Her choice to like, you know, and in the chorus to everywhere, you know. There’s the heart. That part. What Kaylee Williams chooses to do instead is so exciting and so hit the joy of Christine McVie and Fleetwood Mac on the head. I really recommend it. It’s a fabulous performance.

 

Ira Madison III All right. Well, you know me, Paramore stan, I’ve probably seen it before, but I’m not recollecting it. But I mean, I love Amy Williams’ voice. And I think that’s that’s another person who has that Christine quality. Because when you listen to Paramore or you like, a lot of people think of misery business, you know that like one big like Rawkus, like, you know, like I’m stealing your man song, you know. But there are so many songs that really sort of, I think, go to what you were saying about Christine. You know, they’re sort of like running away from drama. A lot of songs are more like playing God or Brick by Brick by Brick are just really sort of about calling out like men who are sort of self-serious and creating drama around our relationship. And I feel like they have sort of the same sort of like chill, bluesy quality. One of my favorite Christine songs is one of her early ones. I’d Rather Go Blind, which you did with Chicken Shack and then rerecorded for her debut album. But like covering Etta James and sounding that fucking like she has this. I mean, I’m sure she wasn’t prepared, but so, you know, I’m sure they were all chain smoking and doing all sorts of cocaine and everything. She even had that interview where she was like, Ah, cocaine and champagne maybe performed better, but like to have such a heroic, smoky voice at that age is just sound so beautiful. And when I think about rumors, too, and everyone’s always sort of like, I want a rumors movie, I want a Rumors TV show, and I hope to God we get one and that Ryan Murphy stays away from it. But I would also say I heard you forget how old they were. They were like late twenties, making rumors. And I know, I think just something about rock stars from the seventies or that sort of era, like being our age. Now, when we look back on them, like you can only really think of them as like older or sort of like our parents and stuff. And it’s just weird remembering like, no, they were the age of like, you know, the youngest people like in pop music right now making music.

 

Louis Virtel And we almost did get a Christine McVie biopic Once Upon a time. It was supposed to be Aaron Eckhart as Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys, whom Christine dated for a while. And then Vera Farmiga was supposed to play Christine McVie. This is a very 2011 cast list. I would have loved to see it at the time, and I hope we get some version of that. It’s a very interesting pairing, Christine, by the way. It’s so interesting how she’s just casually one of those people who she really seem to hang around with guys like her whole like the way she got into Fleetwood Mac. Like she was a big fan of the band Fleetwood Mac before she even joined when it was the Peter Green outfit. She just has that casual, like one of the guys quality. But it was also like her point of view within the band was so feminine. It’s like there was an act of subversion about her, how how she propelled these sentiments through this band.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, there was like this interview that was going around two of them, you know, it was like her and Lindsey and Stevie, you know, asking about like, you know, it was sort of a sexist interview, obviously, because it wasn’t seventies, but it was talking about women being in the band and, you know, like it really is. It’s interesting to think about not just a woman in a rock band like that at that time, but like two women who were basically like Starr under the bed, like in the interview, seriously perceived and said, you know what? Like the difference with other rock bands, you know, where they put like a girl in it, you know, it’s like if me or Christina said we would matter, then go on.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III People are coming to see us.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, totally. Also, it just. It should be acknowledged. It’s completely strange that there are two women in a giant rock band. You know, it’s like besides the Mamas and the Papas, when did that really happen? In the sixties and stuff. I mean, like we got eventually into like the Go-Go’s and the Runaways and things like that. But the way they were part of the dynamic in this band that was men and women. It just we don’t have another band like that. Abba comes to mind, but that’s like, you know, the women weren’t the songwriters in that band, you know? So that’s like a little bit different, too.

 

Ira Madison III Two things I want to bring up, though. You mentioned Dennis Wilson and another one, my favorite songs from Christine is on another one of my favorite albums, Memories, um, which has my favorite song actually, which is Gypsy and that’s by Stevie B But I’m Only Over You, which was written about Dennis Wilson is such a gorgeous song and I think it has that same quality. I’m not to say quality. I think it has that opposite quality of life when you make love and bond, because that was, you know, about, you know, falling in love with someone else, you know, when there’s all this torment going on in your life. And this was really sort of like I believe the song came out like right around the end of Dennis’s life, too. And like, he was a drug addict at the time. And, you know, he had gotten fucked up by, like, his involvement with the Manson family. And I think, like people said, that he really sort of blames himself for becoming friends with Charles Manson and sort of introducing him to Hollywood in the music industry. And so that sort of sent him down a dark path. But that song is really just sort of like summing up their relationship and the good parts about it and just sort of how there’s always things that are beautiful that you remember about people who were with you. So I think that’s a gorgeous song.

 

Louis Virtel I love that song. Yeah. I want to point out just a couple of maybe underrated songs. People don’t know of Christie movies. You don’t know Sky’s the limit. Love Shines is a great song by her. Save Me. She really did a great job of, like, adding an adult quality to the raucous, celebratory vibe we already know about rock and roll. That’s, I think, what was her strong suit.

 

Ira Madison III And we associate Stevie so much with her relationship with Lindsey Buckingham. But I want to say underrated for me, Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie. That joint album that they did in 2017 is so good.

 

Louis Virtel Buckingham McKee. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III So good.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s that Will. Now, Christine is actually nominated for a Grammy this year for a collection she just did called Songbird. But that, I think, will go down as like, you know, right up until the end, she was creating this, like, really splendid music that feels very true to both her and Lindsey. There’s some video of them recording this in the in the booth. And when they’re done recording it, the two of them share this hug that goes on so long. You can feel the years and the years of the history of their of of how thankful they are that the both of them like that. You know, Lindsey really interprets something about Christine and Christine can really interpret something about Lindsey. And you can sense that dynamic there and how just grateful they are that they have each other. And after all these years, after all the time, after all the continued fighting that happens in that band, you know, all the members always said that Christine was a bomb in the group, but the energy was better when she was in the group. But I think in general, they you know, that the magic of that band is they found a way to come back together and make loving fun, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, it’s her last albums to recorded before she died. And so it is you should listen to it if you haven’t listened to it. Mostly because she also talks about I like, you know years later she it helped her rediscover her love of music, you know.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And this is somebody who spent all these years out of Fleetwood Mac because she had a deathly flight fear. She, like, moved to the country, did nothing. It had nothing to do with music for a long time, sort of just succumbed to phobias for a while and triumphantly came out of it. So she should be applauded for that, too.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And then it’s also sort of a sad segue to Irene Cara. We were talking about sort of where Toby lives. I think there was a story today just about how in her later years she sort of took a song from society. It would just sort of wait at home, you know, and just interacting with people. But talk about Irene Cara, that music is phenomenal. It is so that I mean, that is why that is why people remember the Beatles song is why people remember Bam. Hot Lunch is why people remember say, okay, those are those are like eighties anthem and then be able to do that again for like Last Dance and win the Oscar for it.

 

Louis Virtel Fantastic total. I mean I mean, more Oscar trivia people know that Irene Kerr was the first black woman. She’s a African, Puerto Rican and Cuban first black woman to win an Oscar in a non acting category, which is among the most damning statistics in Oscar history. I want to be clear, this is 1983 that this finally happened. But when you look at the history of the best original song Oscar, there are a lot of good songs. You know, you have your Over the Rainbows, you have your moon rivers. But there are so many that make you think like, yes, this song and that movie. And I think Flashdance, what a feeling, is a definitive winner. And by the way, she wrote the lyrics to that song just in the taxi on the way to go and record it. So I guess an Oscar can happen to all of us in an Uber. I have no idea. But like it’s.

 

Ira Madison III That’s such a New York story. By the way

 

Louis Virtel I know, I know.

 

Ira Madison III Just in the taxi. And like, it feels so Fame.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like she was living in Fame. After the movie Fame came out, by the way. But the thing about that song where it’s like, one, it makes you think of the movie. Two, it makes the movie better. And then three, it stands on its own. So it really has the essential ingredients in a great. When I watched a performance of Irene’s on the old David Letterman show in the early eighties, she performed Out Here On My Own from Fame, which was also Academy Award nominated and written by Lesley Gore of It’s My Party Fame. And nobody here dislikes Lesley Gore and her brother Michael Gore. And he won the Oscar for writing the title song from Fame. So he was nominated for two Oscars that year in addition to score, I believe so three.

 

Ira Madison III Out here on my own, also iconic cover by Mariah Carey, which I believe is in Glitter.

 

Louis Virtel Fame is such a mariah ish movie. You know, she was obsessed with that growing up.

 

Ira Madison III Ummm my grandmother was obsessed with watching Fame, too. It’s just, like, intense. There’s no way that that that you weren’t obsessed with fame. If you are if you’re a musician, a star, a performer, sort of from that era, you know, if you were a team, a native, like, you’re obsessed with that. And I won’t go back to that Oscar ceremony, by the way, because I was like, I’m sure these are all things that, you know, but I was just looking around the 83 Academy Awards because I’d seen of her with these people. He was the presenter, right, the best song that year along with Jennifer Beals. And that had been looking at the presenters and performers for 83. 83 was also the Terms of Endearment winning year. And these presenters are so whole areas to me, but it’s also giving Star, you know, it’s like Timothy Hutton and Mary Tyler Moore presenting best supporting actor Kevin Bacon and Daryl Hannah doing sound effects. Joan Collins and Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Academy of Scientific and Technical Awards.

 

Louis Virtel These like Hirschfeld drawings of celebrities just like major, like insane celebrities.

 

Ira Madison III Mel Gibson and Sissy Spacek doing best screenplay. Rock Hudson and Liza Minelli did Best Actress

 

Louis Virtel Oh, right. Oh, my God. Yeah. Rock Hudson. I mean, that would have been very near the end for Rock Hudson. But Mel Gibson. Yeah. Would have been that year and the Year of Living Dangerously. Linda Hunt won Best Supporting Actress that year.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, yeah, that’s right. So, you know, and.

 

Louis Virtel He was believably hot in that movie anyway.

 

Ira Madison III Frank Capra presented Best Picture that year.

 

Louis Virtel How could he still be alive around that time? This is dominated the 1930s. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And and lastly, Dolly Parton and Sylvester Stallone presented the award for best actor.

 

Louis Virtel And of course, they are the stars of Rhinestone, which, you know, not really Oscar Cannon But somebody’s canon.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. The other thing about Irene I want to say is that she got her start in Sparkle.

 

Louis Virtel Which the soundtrack to Sparkle I love. It has it’s Aretha Franklin and she does the song Jump on that is a particularly spicy song. I love spicy Aretha, you know, like Rock Steady, etc..

 

Ira Madison III It’s a night to remember those songs as the Beginning was about Flashdance and, you know, like her solo stuff was, was full of like hits that I feel like could be played at, like a high speed disco or something, and someone would be sit down and be like, What is this song? It’s great.

 

Louis Virtel And I hope that’s the case. I hope people are Shazam If You Don’t Know Why me by Irene Cara Great eighties supercharged banger.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, when we are back, we will be joined by Jim Parsons to talk about his new film, Spoiler Alert.

 

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III You obviously know him from his most famous role in the Big Bang Theory, but as well as The Normal Heart, Hollywood, The Boys in the Band and now his new film, Spoiler Alert. We’re thrilled to welcome to Keep It the delightful Jim Parsons.

 

Jim Parsons Hello.

 

Ira Madison III Hi.

 

Jim Parsons Well. Well, I, oh, God, I hope that’s not true. Um, but

 

Ira Madison III *laughs*

 

Jim Parsons I will say I was talking to somebody recently and I was and I said, you know, when I first started working, I the fear was being well, the fear was being found out as gay. I was. I was I’m old enough that that was true to a certain degree. And then the second fear was being always, always cast as gay and not allowed to play straight. And and I still think that’s a real thing. But I will say that I have been I really it has been such a blessing to play these gay characters and and the types of characters and the depth of the depth of story and humanity in those things that I was doing. That end has been a self awakening and journey unlike any I would have gotten if I had not played them. So in that way, it’s it’s just really funny to hear you say it like that because I didn’t know anybody else in the world would would pick up on that or could pick up on that the way I had for myself, which was that it has changed it has changed my life in a way to play those different gay characters and explore, explore the differences in and one major similarity, you know.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And I mean, even in this film, spoiler alert, which is based on, of course, Michael Ausiello book, spoiler alert the hero dies at the end. You it seems it’s while that I was watching it and was like, oh, it obviously plays the tropes of, you know, like a gay rom com, but it’s also about Michael’s partner dying of cancer. And so you’ve also tapped into now maybe the first like gay fault in our Stars, almost like it’s a genre. Like I feel like we haven’t seen. And it’s if normally it would be like my partner’s dying of AIDS, but.

 

Jim Parsons That’s. That’s right. That’s right. Well, and what you say there is is true. And also the opposite is true, which is that it is a genre we’ve seen all of our lives, but we’ve not really watched it with two men or two people of the same sex going through it. And I know for me, for all the ways in which I connected with the material and wanted to make the movie, that it had to do with specific ways in which I did relate to it as a as a gay man in a long term relationship, more than any of it or as much as that was the universality of the story and the way it did, it did line up with stories that I had grown up with, loving and being moved by. It was just a little bit extra powerful for me because now it was that much easier to put myself in their shoes. But I do think that’s one of my favorite things I know it is one of my favorite things about this film is that in one way of looking at it, Gay Love Story is really not the headline. It really is just love story. And then they happen to be gay. You know, it really is just family and humanity. And they also happen to be gay. And that that’s that was thrilling and is thrilling to be a part of.

 

Louis Virtel There’s something specific about Michael Ausiello that is explored in this movie that I find interesting, which is that his relationship to all of his emotions and to life is filtered through pop culture. There are an awesome scene where his partner discovers that Michael Ausiello has a room full of Smurfs stuff. There’s there are several scenes in the movie where he imagines his childhood as a rom com with all these, like, harrowing moments in it. And I was wondering if you related to that at all, if you sort of look to pop culture growing up as a way to explain yourself or find yourself in life?

 

Jim Parsons It’s interesting. I don’t see any way that I didn’t I don’t see it. I don’t think it’s possible for me to have grown up in the time I’ve been in our country. And not. And to many degrees. Still do. Still still learning lessons, right or wrong? From. From a kind of pop culture, whatever that may or may not actually work for you in your own personal, real life storyline. But I definitely I feel like for me, the biggest thing was when we came across the idea to frame Michael’s childhood through the lens of an eighties sitcom. And that that really felt powerful to me when when we talked about that, because I thought I just thought it was very moving and relatable. The idea of he went through some real hardships with his family before and death in the family before the whole kid story. And it would make such sense to me that he would find a way to put it in the framework of a comforting, laugh track filled, you know, buoyancy. That was the way to to be able to look at it as clearly as he could and as safely for himself as he could. But all of these points really did jump off in one way or another, back to the way Michael wrote his book, which was also framed in an episodic TV type way. You know, next week on or previously on or things like that. And so he really was the impetus for where this creative train went from the beginning.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, was speaking of, you know, the sitcom flashbacks, you know, you spent so much of your life and career on The Big Bang Theory. You know what you have. I feel like you have so many different sort of acting muscles that you’ve had to work out. You know, I feel like you started in theater in Houston and then you did a sitcom and now you’re doing more dramatic roles, sort of what does each sort of take out of you? Or do you find that they’re sort of similar in doing all three things?

 

Jim Parsons I feel similar in that I rarely, if ever, consciously approach any job with like now I’m trying a whole new game plan. I’m going to I’m going to this is different than this. I’m going to tackle it in this different way. I have never I have never consciously done that. Obviously, as I’ve grown and changed as a person. Just inherently my approach probably changes. But I will say that, you know, in this sort of gets back to what we were talking about at the very beginning, the very the various different types of gay men I’ve played in the past 5 to 10 years or whatever. A lot of the roles in the last ten years of my adult life have, have, and maybe it’s just where I am in my own life, but they have affected my life outside of the work in a way that I don’t know I was aware of for the first 20, 30 years of working or whatever of, well, I’m back in school, but you know what I’m saying? But again, I don’t know if that speaks to the work. It probably does to some degree, but a lot of it also speaks to me in an eagerness to find new things and things like that. And yeah, it’s also different to be at this point in career and life and making or trying to make more conscious choices about what I’m doing. Whereas, you know, for so many years it was I just wanted to work, you know, and I was very fortunate. The things that I did end up working on were very rewarding and I got so much out of them and I feel like I was able to give so much to them. But but so much of it was not choice. You know, it’s this is a fairly new development in my life of like, does this sound interesting to you? And before, like I say, interesting was like, does it pay rent? You know, is that a different way? And I think that has something to do with with the way things are affecting me now and what I’m getting to do.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I mean, something I’m fascinated by you about is you have several roles. And I’m thinking of in Ryan Murphy’s Hollywood, which I thought you were fabulous in in hidden figures where and and actually a little bit and boys in the band where I would describe you as scary. I mean like it’s just there’s a quality in these characters where like there’s a taken a bad quality by how whether they’re self-loathing or just destructive. It’s not something I would have guessed you had in you really, you know, as like a kind of bubbly, effervescent sitcom star. And is it a pleasure to be scary in on screen?

 

Jim Parsons It’s it’s a pleasure to explore. It’s a pleasure to explore my best guess and working through of the reasons why those men are doing some of the things they’re doing that are scary, less palatable. You know, hidden figure Hollywood and playing that agent who was so predatory. Was really a major moment for me as an actor. I know I’m not saying the way it was received or whatever, but I mean, just going through that process. The one thing there was this glorious book and now I’m forgetting the author’s name, but it’s a biography about Henry Wilson and it’s called The Man The Man Who Created Rock Hudson. And that was the first time I had played a character that I had kind of a a literal Bible verse to go by about his history and what made him up and the way he worked. And that was very powerful for me. It gave me so much information that gave reasons for why he was doing what he was doing, but also gave me as an actor such a beautiful, just psychological foundation of where I was coming from. And. And Michael’s book is not dissimilar, not that Michael in spoiler, but does create scary things like that. But it was it was the same situation with like having a Bible for a character like that that I could go back to and always kind of place it to this deeper human place I could find. But but then. Which is what connects to the scary part I do enjoy finding. I think a lot of actors do enjoy finding that what is the humanity in them? That in order to either protect themselves or try and find what’s best for them, they’re trying to be happy. They want to be happy people, but do so. What is it that detours off into this scary land? And yeah, I guess in the name of like humanistic puzzles that there’s there’s nothing finer, there’s nothing more enjoyable. Not that it’s easy to play nice people necessarily. I think a lot of actors I’ve watched over the years get overlooked when they play like a really well-done every man and a good guy. I don’t think it says, Look, is hard, and I think that’s complete nonsense. I think it’s just as hard, if not harder.

 

Ira Madison III Some of your recent work has been, you know, with Ryan Murphy. And I feel like we know so much about him throughout his career and how he got to be able to tell the stories that he wants to tell. But what’s interesting to me is, you know, we worked on Big Bang Theory with Chuck Lorre and I feel like as a television icon and we know his work, obviously, Dharma and Greg, you know, we know eyeball grace under fire. But, you know, I don’t feel like we know much about him as sort of like a storyteller, the way that we do like a Norman Lear or like an Aaron Spelling, like was there something about working with him for so many years that sort of like showed you like why this person has created so many successful set cards or like something you learned being on the show early on that sort of like told you like this is how this show is going to keep going.

 

Jim Parsons Yeah, there were two major things and they’re certainly related. The first the reason this is just my opinion, but I think the reason that Chuck has been as successful as he’s been with these shows is that he has an incredible sense of rhythm and musicality. And I think I think that’s valuable in a lot of these art forms, be it theater or movies or television. But it’s especially valuable when you’re talking about these half hour sitcoms. And like I always said, I feel like he’s a master at being able to hear an episode of TV, almost play like a good pop song. It’s something you can listen to again and again. It goes by at a certain beat. You can dance to it, as it were, or laugh to it. And and that affects his overall view. It certainly did for our show every single episode. I said this, too. I said, if you watch any episode of our show, there’s always this moment at the end where it’ll almost always wear the black. The blackout with his name appearing comes just almost a half too soon. It almost kind of gets you on the edge of your seat in a way. And it’s I always thought it was genius. I was just like that. It just gives you that sensation of, Oh, it’s over and like, you want more. And I don’t think it’s trickery, but I think it’s a good ear and a good rhythm. The second thing, though, that got him to where he is, is that it’s it’s very important. It can be very important to have one major. I won major voice. Running a show. And even though plenty of other people rose up, especially like a Steve Miller was really our showrunner by then, but even that was under the Chuck umbrella. And until you have a lot of power or until you create that power for yourself, it can be hard. And a lot of other opinions can dilute the product, as it were. And and when we were with him, he was he was the the top guy and the where the buck stopped from day one. And that allowed us to really execute this vision. It just happened to resonate with people, thank goodness. But but the vision was never in question as far as like, oh, god, a bunch of opinions from other executives and stuff. They were like, no, they just trusted Chuck. He trusted himself. And that’s where we went forward. And that that’s enormous. There’s you know, that’s a lot of there’s that’s a confident groundwork to be coming from now.

 

Louis Virtel Obviously, some of that musicality would come in the editing, but I imagine acting in the show, you must be playing to, you know, this Lydia Tarr type person sense of rhythm when you’re creating a show. And I imagine that can be super daunting. Ah to pick up initially, is that something you had to kind of find over time?

 

Jim Parsons Um, no, actually, which didn’t mean it wasn’t daunting, but it was how I felt immediately that I didn’t know if they would end up casting me, but I felt that it was a really good part for me and I thought, I can. I believe this could happen. We’ll see. But I had everything to do with that. There was something that they had written and the way he was talking and the way their scenes went. And I just I felt that I could hear it. I thought I could hear what they were going for. But what’s funny is that it is a double edged sword. There is there is such joy in in getting that. For me, there was such joy in feeling like I was getting those rhythms right and getting within what they wanted. And there were other times that there were, you know, and I’ve experienced that a lot more lately with some single camera work. You do different takes, you do different takes, different ways or whatever. And it’s it’s it’s a different set of muscles because there was it’s not a rigidity that we had that I felt I had in the sitcom. But I, I did feel I was the I was serving the the idea of the rhythm. And I was and and it’s different in other work. It’s it is different in this movie. It’s different in the play I’m doing right now or whatever. It’s just, it’s, I don’t want to say it’s exactly I’m free, but it’s just another way of exploring. But that being said, in that rigidity, in that maze that they set up, there is a great freedom because you know what point you have to hit. And in that it can be really, really fun. It was really fun. It was always really fun in that way. Yeah, but they’re different.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. It feels like even like the syllables of what you’re saying are blocked to a certain extent on things like that.

 

Jim Parsons And now without a doubt, you know, and I beat myself up one side and the other, getting those lines down as much as I could, because I was like, I don’t have there was no space for or. Hmm. I mean, it was just didn’t exist, you know, I didn’t know what to say next. We just had to stop. And then I could start over. But trying to, like, sigh and humanize your way through it was never going to work. I did crave that at a certain point. It’s like, Oh God, please just let me roll my eyes or something for a minute. And it’s fine, you know.

 

Ira Madison III You’re currently also in, I think you said a play right now is that that’s Terrence Malick now is a man of no importance. Was Terence’s work something that you were obviously heavily familiar with while you were, you know, doing theater in Houston? And was this sort of like a joy to be able to act in one of his plays, you know, so soon after his death?

 

Jim Parsons Yes, it definitely was. I had grown up, obviously, hearing the name Terrence McNally my entire life. Some theater and whatever. All the plays he had written and in the last eight years or so appearance his life, we have been in slight communication over trying to get something going, either revival of something or whatever, and it never worked out. And when he passed away, you know, I don’t think Terrence took it as a is a regret to his grave but I thought regretful as I’m I feel I regret that that didn’t happen. And so when I got this notice about this play, I did not know it. It was it’s a man I’ve known for, and it’s also a musical. I had never heard it. I had never seen it. I did not. Terrence had written it. All I knew was that John Doyle was directing it. And I don’t know if you know John Doyle’s work, but like he did the Sweeney Todd on Broadway and company on Broadway. They’re just phenomenal.

 

Ira Madison III The instrumental ones. Yes, yeah, yeah.

 

Jim Parsons And I want to work with John, you know, and then I opened up the play to read it, and I was like, Oh my God, Terrence wrote the book for this. And then I found out one of my closest friends is director Joe Mantello, and he had directed the original production. And then I found out that the ARRI was being asked to do was originated by Roger Reese, who had passed away several years ago, and I’d worked with him at the Old Globe and it was just like it was one of those moments of going, You’re going to do this. Everything is just killing. You just do it. So, so here I am. And it’s been a wonderful, life changing experience. It really has.

 

Louis Virtel Have you ever read Love, Valor, Compassion? I was a late comer to that play and over the pandemic, several friends and I read it over Zoom. And it’s like for as a gay guy, it’s weird sometimes to read like lines that you would actually say, like, I would make that same joke about who I am, whomever, Barbara Stanwyck or whatever. You know, it’s like it’s weird to feel that scene, you know?

 

Jim Parsons It is, it is. And it is. It’s it’s such a beautifully written play. And I have a very deep connection with it because when I was 20, 21, kind of coming out of the closet in Houston, you know and this is in the early nineties were not AIDS is still a very scary I mean I still think it is but it was it was very scary as a young gay man to start feeling out your sexuality and aids hovering there. And I remember seeing a production at the Alley Theater in Houston of Love, Valor, Compassion, and I both loved it. And it scared the shit out of me because it dealt so frankly with someone dealing with that, with all of them as a group dealing with that. And my palms sweat a little bit just talking about it with you. Like I’m remembering sitting in there and going, I love this and I am I’m a little scared being confronted with this. But anyway, this just speaks to the impact Terrence had.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And a Joe also directed my favorite Terrence play the Ritz. I saw that the revival with Rosie Perez in it back in 2008.

 

Jim Parsons Yeah, I’ve seen it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. It’s fantastic. As someone who grew up in, you know, working in theater so much. And now obviously I would assume, you know, you have the ability to sort of work with roles that interest you now than baby pick, even a play that you would want to separate to off-Broadway or Broadway. Are there any roles that you have played before that you are really excited to maybe do again or a play that you’ve like? I’ve always wanted to play this, but I hope I get the opportunity to.

 

Jim Parsons Honestly, not so much. I’ve never been. I’ve never been very good at that. It’s not that nothing’s ever interested me, but. The few times it has. And I brought it up to somebody, it it rarely seems to go anywhere. You know? No. No new material. Spoiler alert is a great example. That was something that me and my company got the rights to, and it turned into this. But it’s something like you say, like a role that I’ve always wanted to play or whatever I have. I feel like a couple of times I brought it up to people I trusted or whatever, and it’s just never it’s never taken off for some reason. And I think there’s just something about the way I work or who I am and the way people work with me, that it needs to be a much more collaborative decision. There’s something there’s something slightly inorganic about me. I know a lot of people do it, but for whatever reason, something slightly inorganic about me saying, no, I want to play this and I want you to direct it. And I think part of it is that I really want to feel everyone is on board from a very deep place and interested in it. I’m I would be not as comfortable knowing somebody who’s doing something even if they wanted to. Part of it was because they knew they were doing it for me, because I wanted them to do it with me. And maybe I’ll keep growing and changing and I’ll develop that more. But. But I do love entering a room, knowing everybody’s there for some, maybe even slightly mysterious personal reason. Like you can never know for sure what it is exactly they connected to about this. But to be in this room. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I think you’re if you’re firm and you just say, look, it’s me, Jim Parsons, I’m going to be playing Amanda Wingfield in The Glass Menagerie all after acceptance. And that’s that. I think people will just jump on board.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know what you’re so self-conscious about.

 

Jim Parsons You think that’s a different vibe? I think that it would be willing to make that thought going, God damn it, we’re new. Of course, there’s never been a problem.

 

Ira Madison III It’s the nuance.

 

Jim Parsons I get, you know, touchy feely.

 

Ira Madison III I guess. Maybe. Last question. Obviously, in this film, you get to work with the iconic Sally Field. You know, how was how was that like being on set with our Lewis that I now have met Sally because we’re friends with her son Sam. But to be able to act with her.

 

Jim Parsons Yeah, it was breathtaking, to be honest with you. And not because she was doing things right. And then you’re like, look at her go. But it was just it was it comes with a history, you know, it comes with a very if you’re an actor, especially, I think it comes with a very powerful history. She’s someone that you’ve not only grown up with, but she’s top tier of actors you admire and and aim strive to bring your version of that kind of power and passion that she’s always brought to her things and and breathtaking in the normalcy of sitting there off set with her and talking about life scenes, the dog, whatever and and that kind of thing and how, you know, it’s one of those moments where it’s shocking and also a huge relief to realize that somebody that you’ve admired so much is just an actor and and as well as gifted as she is, she’s just going through the same rigmarole that we all are. And she’s doing it and for some overlapping, similar reasons, a desire to storyteller, desire to experiment and play with these other emotional aspects of being human. And and then, you know, she’s just she’s just her. But few people bring the kind of gravity to any scene she walks into that she does. I’ll say that it’s just it’s instantaneous. And and and I think it’s probably thing she’s always done, but it’s simply something she’s multiplied in intensity, I imagine, over the years from working so much. And I’m just so damn grateful she did the movie. I mean, it adds her mere presence in it. And I don’t mean name wise, although there’s certainly that. But just her mere presence as an actor in this film elevates it and and and again, lends a depth of humanity to it that some aspect would not be there as much if it weren’t her doing it. You know.

 

Louis Virtel There is just an extraordinary normalcy quality. To Sally Field, two time Oscar winner. I’m just saying, if you sat down with Glenda Jackson, she’s going to be a little bit hair raising with you. You know what I mean? Whereas, like Sally just immediately locks.

 

Jim Parsons You know, is just like everyone’s mother, Sally Field and and it’s funny because I feel that and there is truth to that. But I if I’m allowed to say this and say what a sexpot. I mean, you go back to like in the band or whatever, it’s like it’s nobody’s mother that. She is just. So she’s, you know and but I think that to all goes in this whole capsule of like she’s worked long enough and done so many different things and done them so deeply and so well that she is a human and a woman who she kind of brings all of that with her. And that’s part of the power is, you know, all of that’s there. She’s not simply this, she’s not simply that. She is a very layered human being. And, you know, yeah, any idiot could have told you that but I just did it for you.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you so much for being here, Jim.

 

Jim Parsons Thank you for having me. It’s really been a pleasure.

 

Louis Virtel What a pleasure. Yes, thanks. Come on back any time with or without Sally.

 

Jim Parsons Thank you.

 

Ira Madison III [AD].

 

Ira Madison III  As 2022 comes to a close. It’s time for everyone’s favorite end of the year tradition. Getting mad at a list someone posted online.

 

Louis Virtel I love it so much. It’s the least productive anger ever. I love it. Yes

 

Ira Madison III Ugh Sight and Sound has released the definitive, greatest films of all time. And the reactions have been mixed. And some of them have been wild. We can say that, you know, looks and most of the reactions are coming from the fact that there’s a new number one on the list. This is sort of their longest running critics poll. And they sort of do it like every decade and people get to submit their own top ten lists this year Chantal Ackerman’s Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce 1080 Bruxelles took the top spot. It’s the first film from a female director to achieve the honor since the poll began in 1952. And the girls are tussling.

 

Louis Virtel It’s also also the only the fourth movie ever to be ranked number one. Previously, Vertigo had gotten it Citizen Kane and Bicycle Thieves. I mean, it does feel completely out of nowhere to me. As much as everybody loves the director sons, Chantal Ackerman. And also it’s a very the movie is very interesting, even just the description of it before you get into how insular and like bracing it is as a film, but it’s a woman who’s a widow and her life is extremely regimented. Like everything down to the hour occurs the same every day. And after her husband dies, she maintains she’s a prostitute from 5 to 530 every day. And certain things start to slip up there, like things in the routine. That change in the movie is about what happens when, you know, she’s these slip ups continue to occur. I won’t spoil it beyond that. To me, what’s always the most fascinating about this poll is what falls off the list, because seemingly for no reason, people just get sick of, you know, ballyhoo ing certain movies like I guess, you know, like what fell off like The Godfather two fell off the list. Really interesting. Y you know, it just people got sick of sticking up for it or what, you know, Fanny and Alexander the great Bergman, that third thing, Chinatown, Nashville. In fact, I think someone said there’s no Altman on the list at all, which is, for me, bone chilling.

 

Ira Madison III I think what really happens to me, you know, there is people who are very upset about it, like Paul Schrader, who I adore. So I’m not going to drag him on this show, but I did really hate him being like this was an example of like what’s going to work? Because I hate when people use that, you know, like you so much to Ron DeSantis from one and to it’s it makes sense because you know it’s we finally have more critics of color and like female critics and obviously they’re going to champion the films that they care about. And Jenny Johnson has really sort of become this like cult classic, you know, among a certain set of critics at a certain point. And like, it makes sense that that would jump up. You know, is it still going to be at number one in ten years? I doubt it. You know, but something else probably will. And I do want to say that and I think because she did this, like if you don’t think that some of the best films ever are currently being made now, then like what are we even doing here? You know, right out of way. Jenny Diamond is, you know, from seventies 1975. But, you know, like there are people mad that like portrait of a lady on fire was like up there on the list, you know? And it was like fraudulently empire moonlight, you know. It’s like, yeah, we, we every year we should be striving to make some of the best films that I’ve ever been made. And like, if a film comes out and it’s fucking amazing and it’s 20, 22, you know, lists are arbitrary anyway, but it’s like, I’m not going to fight about whether or not, you know, like Blue Mike’s buried in Chinatown, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Not right. Also, by the way, just that entire vibe. First of all, if you’re a fan of Paul Schrader, I recommend not reading his Facebook just ever. But secondly, like the whole, like, idea that like, oh, you’re really killing the vibe by bringing in these new movies or whatever or you’re full of shit or whatever. It’s like what you’re saying is it’s just no fun for you to, like, be into a movie that’s, for example, about women or about people of color. You know, it’s like.

 

Ira Madison III Or queer people.

 

Louis Virtel Because like, by the way, there are so many films in this list that you’re going to necessarily disagree with and just say like, Oh, I don’t really like that one as much as I like this other one. Why are these the sticking point? Like, can we take 2 seconds to think about why it’s really like, you know, you can’t get over these two. It’s just really annoying and I think transparent.

 

Ira Madison III It’s also just like I know someone who comes from like theater to, you know, it’s like they’re constantly new players. Being there are fucking amazing. And like the whole point of being an artist and a writer and a director is to say something about the human condition. And I would just have to think that a film being made now, so it’s a bit more about the human condition than Raging Bull. Right. Right. It’s a amazing film. But like, you know, like we have Blue Pass are we thought about society and about how we thought about mad then everything else like from like the seventies, you know, like you should expect that newer films are going to pop up on the list. You are going to expect that also, like we’re going to start talking about certain films as time passes and it doesn’t mean they’re not great anymore. And like I said, like it’s a fucking arbitrary list, but at a certain point, like, you can’t quote every film that’s ever made on a website, you know, it’s not like you have to start like moving with what people are interested in watching. I’m sure, you know, people making films in the seventies, you know, like those films before they were considered cult classics or, you know, just sort of like AFI’s best films, you know, like I’m sure people were like, Oh, this is them Bicycle Thieves.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I think something that also sticks with me is like I so I grew up on these, like, official lists of the hundred greatest movies. Which are they? They did one in the nineties and then did an update of it in the 2000s, and they largely resembled each other. But something that has always stuck with me is that like, you know, for instance, like The Godfather is always near the top, or Lawrence of Arabia is always near the top, not on the sight and sound list. By the way, Lawrence of Arabia fell off, but I think something that sticks out.

 

Ira Madison III Not on Julie Dash’s list.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Ira Madison III Julie Dash was like, Lawrence of Arabia.

 

Louis Virtel I think something that sticks out to me is that. Even though nobody would argue that like The Godfather isn’t artful or whatever. It’s also like men are interested in themselves and so they get to then mistake that for having taste. Then it’s like if The Godfather were about women, I’m not saying I need that movie. I’m not saying like I want the Ocean’s Eight of Godfather, but it’s like you just wouldn’t be as interested in it, even if it were the same amount of artfulness within the film. So I think when I look at a lot of these lists of old movies, it’s like men choosing to believe their own stories, namely white men. Choosing other white men is the best. It’s like touting whiteness. I mean, I think that’s what it’s about. And touting being a white man.

 

Ira Madison III I love The Godfather, but I’m also like, if we’re talking about a compelling film, you know, I’m like, Where’s Peggy Sue.

 

Louis Virtel Please? I mean, now we’re speaking my language. My God, what a great performance from Kathleen Turner. But again, I think men being interested in themselves, conflated with prestige, has always happened thanks to these lists. And I feel like interrupting that is something that’s kind of rat. Like, I’m sort of thrilled to hear like other things break through the ranks and people have to actually consider, you know, the points of view that don’t fit into that column.

 

Ira Madison III To quote Glass Onion, we’re the disrupters.

 

Louis Virtel By the Glass Onion I liked better than the first Knives Out. I saw that over the break.

 

Ira Madison III I did too. I did too. I was like, I would I’m going to talk about that more later, that episode. But like, I fucking love Glass Onion. And I think that is a thing about what movies do for you, by the way, because with Knives Out came out you know I was obsessed with that movie. I loved it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It took Knives Out 2, Glass Onion for me to see Rian Johnson improve on what he did in Knives Out. And now I enjoyed that one so much better. And it makes my opinion of Knives Out, which I do still a lot like lower a bit because I’m like, this movie is better than it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Which egotistically you can handle. That’s nice to see you. Love that. Wow. Set an example for the sight and sound people.

 

Ira Madison III But you know, I feel like direct, you know, like each director, a movie that they make, you know, should be like improved. You know, if it’s not improving on what they did before, it should have something different to say. And I think, you know, mentioning Peggy Sue got married, like I said, or, you know, like even the films that are on this, you know, like I love Alice doesn’t live here anymore, you know? And I think that what we’re seeing now is especially it was coming from someone who went to NYU for film school. You know, I think that you get tired of not just violence. You get tired of being in film school and hearing constantly. People tell you that best movies are and those have never changed. Someone is always mentioning the same. Top ten is always seemed the fucking same. You could write out a list, you know, with your highest quote, you know, and you can guess what the list would be. I think that’s also why people were dragging Ty West’s list. Ty West, director of Pearl and X, and his list was very just sort of basic.

 

Louis Virtel The kind like like down the line, like famous movies, like, what was it, Psycho?

 

Ira Madison III Mhm. Hold on. It was it was ugh it was Psycho Citizen Kane, Godfather, 2001, Twilight or Apocalypse Now, Sunset Boulevard, Chinatown, Jaws, Taxi Driver, Easy Rider, like. Sure.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. We’ve all seen those. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Which is, which is so funny.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way people don’t dislike those movies like it is just weird to see them all immediately chosen though. It’s like funny.

 

Ira Madison III Well I think what’s, what’s actually funny about it and was funny your book is called zombies in general with those people were angry at the West because they felt it was basic and they felt that like it didn’t tell you anything about him as an artist, the films that he picked. Well, then, on the flipside, you can’t be angry if the list then doesn’t represent where art and criticism is now, because every individual critic picking a list is going to pick films that might represent their sensibilities.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, in a way, I guess it’s sort of admirable that he pulled himself out of it, I mean, and was quote unquote objective about what he chose. But of course, nobody’s objective anyway. This are fun to argue about.

 

Ira Madison III So I made a personal top ten list if you wanna argue about that.

 

Louis Virtel Are they actually like tiered? Is that like one means the most and ten means 10th best?

 

Ira Madison III Um, I would say actually, yes.

 

Louis Virtel All right. I’m ready to shoot this down.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. Mine mine actually is tiered. Number one is All About My Mother, Almodovar.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, you would think we saw a little bit more of him in these rankings. Yeah, he really is an astounding living artist. And I kind of like Penelope Cruz in Parallel Mothers last year. He, like, did it again. Like, he really comes back again and again with these, like. Juicy. I would call his movies succulent.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. That’s a perfect word for his movies, actually. So much. And I would say that him like, as you know, you are old guard at this point, but because it’s movies have so many women in them, because they’re so queer and because they’re just, you know, like, outwardly in-your-face with being, like, stag movies. Yeah. You know, men who make these other words, you know, like, don’t necessarily relate to Almodovar film.

 

Louis Virtel And I recommend they get on it because it’s a good time.

 

Ira Madison III Number two would be Eve’s Bayou by Kasi Lemmons.

 

Louis Virtel I knew, I absolutely knew Eve’s Bayou was coming up and I had my Journee Smoulett take already. She’s great in Eve’s Bayou.

 

Ira Madison III We know that’s a fucking Keep It classic we’re always talking about Eve’s Bayou. Another Keep It Classic is number three, Written on the Wind by Douglas Berg.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Where I think still the only movie where somebody is mambo-ed to death and you know, there should be an entire industry about that.

 

Ira Madison III Um four is Mildred Pierce by Michael Curtis.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, please. First of all, everybody in that movie, I mean, it’s famous for being Joan Crawford vehicle. But Eve Arden in that movie Ann Blythe, who is still with us, I think maybe it’s ever since Angela Lansbury died. That’s the person in the earliest nominated performance who’s still alive, Ann Blithe and Mildred Pierce.

 

Ira Madison III Well, is that the film that she was nominated for?

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Mhmm.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. Um. Five would be. And this was hard because I loved Hitchcock and it was like which one do I pick. I picked Psycho.

 

Louis Virtel Well, let me tell you, the last time I watch Psycho, I really am shocked by how many of the choices seem downright contemporary. Like the pacing of the scary moments is really feels really modern, which is I mean, you know, it’s this black and white movie from 1960 starring, you know, quintessentially 1960, people like Anthony Perkins and Martin Balsam and Janet Leigh, etc.. But it in a way different than all other Hitchcock movies. It stands out as full of modern choices.

 

Ira Madison III And because I think it’s so about the voyeurism of Norman Bates that it sort of fits into Hitchcock’s filmography, but it doesn’t feel gross, I guess, like you were saying before, like thinking about like how he treated Jimi Hendrix on set, you know, like the whole point of Psycho is that it’s exploitative.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. And he’s right. Obviously, the last 10 minutes of Psycho are somebody looking to camera and explaining why this person is deranged.

 

Ira Madison III And I think that’s fucking

 

Louis Virtel By the way.

 

Ira Madison III Is bonkers and a beautiful film choice. I fucking love it. It’s so bond. It’s so I mean it’s just like another number ten on the list actually does that too, but in a more modern way. But I will get to that. I’d say number number six is All About Eve by Mankiewicz.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. I mean, like, I’m never done loving All About Eve. I think. I think something that, like, makes a movie legendary to me is there are great lines I keep forgetting. You know, it’s not just the two great lines. There’s like 25 great lines and All About Eve and all of the characters get our specifically their own entities. You know, Celeste Holm is not like Margaret. Our Bette Davis was not like Thelma Ritter, etc., or and Baxter. But they all get these sophisticated moments to be witty and observant about other characters in the movie. It’s just it remains one of a kind so far. And of course, the wonderful George Sanders and his wonderful voice.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I think that, too, is why I love like mystery views or like even a film like Glass Onion, right? Like it’s part about ensemble pieces isn’t just each character getting to comment on the other characters in the film.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. Totally. I think that’s one of the thrills of like for like a movie like Clue. I think that’s one of the like Miss Scarlett, like, getting to, like, roll her eyes at Colonel Mustard or whatever. You know, there’s lots of interplay between the characters. I just want to say about Glass Onion, clearly a shout out to The Last of Sheila, the Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins written mystery from the seventies, where a millionaire invites his strange, suspicious friends on a like a puzzle caper that ends up going awry.

 

Ira Madison III Seven is a Spielberg film. Can you guess which one?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I bet I can. Hold on. Hmm. I don’t know that you would say E.T., but I’ll say E.T..

 

Ira Madison III Jurassic Park.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, interesting. I mean, we love it. Jurassic Park, I’d probably seen more than any other. Another about E.T. is the movie I’ve seen the most, but Jurassic Park is the one that would come on TV the most. Among the Spielberg movies.

 

Ira Madison III I would say E.T. came on TV a lot, but I was never in the E.T. the way I was locked into Jurassic Park. My grandmother always reminds me how obsessed I was with dinosaurs. I mean.

 

Louis Virtel It was unavoidable in that time. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I was taken just at a certain point, I was just dropped off at the movie theater in Milwaukee because I saw Jurassic Park every weekend.

 

Louis Virtel And that’s turned you into the person you are today. You’re actually dressed like, what’s the name of that movie? Ali Sackler. I assume your shirt is tied in the middle.

 

Ira Madison III Of also that, just like I feel like that just tells you about. Like, that’s why I’m excited to see the Fableman’s too. I just feel like that just is, like, such a symptom of Spielberg and movie magic. You just sit down and he wants to read that part, and it just. You feel like you’re watching a film and you’re transplanted to a world, right? That’s what made me love movies.

 

Louis Virtel I did not love the Fableman’s. And I have to say, I didn’t love Michelle Williams in it either. But we’ll get into that another week.

 

Ira Madison III I haven’t seen it yet, but it’s just it just opened up in theaters here. So I’m going to see it and then we can talk about it. So, um, number eight is West Side Story, the original.

 

Louis Virtel Mhm. I mean, if you watched West Side Story alone you might be fooled into thinking Natalie Wood is among the worst people we ever propelled to stardom. But she’s not. She’s great. Many movies. But of course. Rita moreno. Of course. George Chakiris. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Nine is Wong Kar Wai’s Happy Together.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s what you chose as opposed to any of the other Wong Kar Wai’s that usually dominate these list roundups.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, listen, I could have done with In the Mood for Love, I could have gone with Chungking Express. But you know what I’m like. I saw that movie only a few years ago, but it really just sort of like to me and I haven’t been able to get it out of my brain ever since. I think it’s a really beautiful love story, too. And it’s about two men. So it’s my In the Mood for Love.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, very good. In the mood for, our love.Yes

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we love a different way. We talk a different way. Happy together is an alien super star. Okay?

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And ten is the one that I said is a little bit like Psycho and that it explains everything at the end. But ten is Scream.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes. I, I think Scream remains one of the most pleasurable movies I’ve ever seen. And I feel that way every time I watch it. It’s it’s almost like if you only had the comedy in that movie, it would still be its own movie. If you only had the horror in that movie, that would still be its own. But it’s this mash of personalities and like very Gen-X cynicism and genuine scares, you know, just everybody is their a game. And I mean, like, I would die for Neve Campbell. Like, I don’t know that I would have ever said that in my lifetime. Neve Campbell is like absolutely essential.

 

Ira Madison III It reminds me of Ryan Johnson talking about Agatha Christie books. And he was I went to this talk that he had about glass. I’m going to watch it best. And he just talked about how people, you know, put Agatha Christie into this sort of like, you know, they pigeonhole her. But really, every book is sort of like a different genre. And like, you know, there’s like the ABC, which is sort of the ABC murderers, which is so different. And then there’s and then there were none, which is very much like slasher. And it’s I feel like Scream operates as a horror film, a comedy, but also it’s just like a really good whodunit, you know? I feel like the slasher element, you know, in an earlier slasher that were inspired at like prom night and shit like that, it’s like, you know who the killer is, really? Or like, you know why they’re doing it. And what’s beautiful about Scream, it’s like you don’t know the motive for the murders. And you’re also trying to figure out the motive and you’re trying to figure out who did it. And then the end scene in the house, you know, with Stu and Billy, is really sort of like drawing room room Columbo moment, but reversed because the killers are holding them captive and they’re explaining why they did everything. And I think it’s just sort of like a really beautiful movie that changed a lot about the horror job and run and things that came after it. And if home was getting more respect, I think the Scream would have a lot more honors and would be harder on people’s words.

 

Louis Virtel Also, just in general, it makes me realize that there aren’t too many movies that you can say are classic whodunits. You know, it’s just like mystery is not really a genre that I don’t know has the farewell over time or that we’ve even attempted that much. I remember when the AFI did a list of the best mysteries ever, like Vertigo came in at number one. And that is technically a mystery. I mean, like what you find out at the end explains a whole lot, but it’s not really like a whodunit like that, you know, it’s not that classic thing of there’s these seven people and it’s one of them or what, you know. So to get that in the form of scream is fabulous. And of course, I think Rian Johnson for being obsessed with that genre itself, you know, for doing giving us more of that thing, I don’t think we’ve had enough of historically.

 

Ira Madison III You know, he’s from the nation. He stuck with it. So. That’s my list. That’s my top ten. You know, I think probably I’m like.

 

Louis Virtel I think I’m proud of you.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you. I was like I was close to like either putting, like, Spike Lee’s Crooklyn or De Palma’s Blow Out on it. But I’m happy with the list.

 

Louis Virtel Of course, mine would be. Let’s see here, Little Giants, which if you haven’t seen Rick Moranis at his best, you’ve got to think. Think, get going. Get your sights and your sounds on Little Giants. No, I’m kidding. I’ll come up with my ten some other week.

 

Ira Madison III I have not thought about Little Giants in forever.

 

Louis Virtel My brother Mark is obsessed with it, and it just came to mind. He I think he had a date one time where he put on Little Giants. I was like, that was either really alpha or really incel I can’t tell what that is. So.

 

Ira Madison III All right when we’re back. It’s time for Keep It.

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s keep it. I know what your keep it is already so I’m going to let you get to it. And, you know, I am diametrically opposite.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Well, this is exciting. A real Frost Nixon moment. My keep it is to people who are obsessively annoyed about the AI Instagram phenomenon. Okay. I’m not here saying everybody needs to download the lensa app, or we need to give all our data to whatever mysterious entity is mining it. I just think for Instagram, which correct me if I’m wrong, is about posting photos from your life, usually of yourself. We’re routinely sick of seeing the same picture as in literally an iPhone photo of people. This in which you see like these comic book renderings of of people that they that are generated through A.I. And I’m not saying that’s even ethically done. I hear that like they’re stealing art from artists, which then helps them generate the AI. I’m not supporting that either. I just think seeing whatever your best girlfriend from high school look like, RoboCop is pretty cool. I’m into it. My friend Elise posted a bunch. I was. I was almost in tears. I was like, oh my God, you look, this is exactly what I think of you. You’re this heroic to me. So I’m not saying there aren’t a ton of people posting them and that, you know, if you open up your feed, it’s not 100 people posting photographs, but by the way, they’re not even repetitive. The AI is so intrinsic that you get a different looking thing every time. So it’s not like I’m seeing the same artist caricature every time I open up the app. So I just think it’s a way to look, you know, Oh, people are cool or they’re ripped. Bodies now look like cartoon ripped bodies or whatever. I thought it was a good look for Instagram.

 

Ira Madison III I never seen this side of you, which is you talking about your friend. At least that was like that actually moved me.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Okay. Well, I mean, it’s true.

 

Ira Madison III I don’t know I don’t know where you are this week, but I feel like this is a lovely site.

 

Louis Virtel But it’s sort of like, you know, like on Saturday Night Live when they come back from commercial and you see a picture of the host in a way you don’t normally see them. It’s like super artistic or it’s a fun photograph, whatever. It’s like that, you know, like, Oh, what a cool way to look at this person. I already thought, I know.

 

Ira Madison III You’ve almost come against me. Yeah, but I will say. I will say day five. I was like, Let’s wrap it up, let’s wrap it up. And nothing to me has symbolized more us becoming our parents than this. And like, it just felt like such a person on Facebook behavior.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, okay. Kind of. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And I missed the grid post because truly we have needed it. Posts back on Instagram. I was glad everyone was posting to grid again.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. No, it does feel like that part of Instagram is going in a way and I don’t want it to. It’s like how I sort of absorb information better on the app, I think. But also it’s like it to me. The strange thing about being annoyed with this phenomenon is So what exactly do you think is essential to Instagram? Because most of what people do is pretty fucking annoying. Like, like, don’t worry, guys, we’ll get back to like, buff guys doing three push ups while we’re sinking in just a second. That’s not annoying. Like, it’s so interesting to me.

 

Ira Madison III I will actually like at least I am. I’m living in my truth in that I was annoyed about it, but I’m only expressing it here. This is the first time I’ve ever express it. Because what’s even more annoying than the people doing the AI, were the people who then had to post that they were annoyed that people were posting and that I was just sort of like, I don’t care enough to make a whole Instagram post about how I’m annoyed with all my friends.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Also, of course, like gay Twitter went to the like dysmorphia place. Like this is like blank. Like this is bad for like our body image and blank blank and like you literally look like RoboCop who looks at a picture of RoboCop and things like, Oh fuck, I need to be that. Like, What are you talking about?

 

Ira Madison III Also Also like, no shade, but like half of half of the people gays follow online contribute to body dysmorphia so like AI didn’t invent that.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yes, it didn’t start now. Yes. Right. Yes, yes. This you looking like Ace and Gary from the ambiguously gay duo and a cartoon is not like ruining my day. I don’t know. It’s so interesting.

 

Ira Madison III Unfollow all the Barry’s instructors you follow. Okay? Like, maybe, like, maybe like maybe maybe then your brain will be a little bit better. Yeah. So I’m like, it annoyed me, but I wasn’t so annoyed that I had to comment about it.

 

Louis Virtel God, so I won that. Okay, great. Ira, what is your keep it.

 

Ira Madison III My Keep It is to Netflix.

 

Louis Virtel Oh. For?

 

Ira Madison III For the release of Glass Onion.

 

Louis Virtel It really is perplexing to me. It really is.

 

Ira Madison III For a company that seems to be like fat, nasty, broke at its lowest. Um. Glass onion came into theaters mad as hell. It’s good.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s getting rave reviews. Audiences were like eating it up to release it for one fucking week and then, I guess we’ll just watch it um on Netflix on Christmas is leaving so much money on the table and it was like I thought that was needed the money. I thought they were like. I thought they were like hitting up people for cash at this point. So. So I’m like, what’s not clicking here? I’m not getting it. I was extra mad because, you know, I was I was on vacation, I was in fucking Milan. And I am like frantically searching online, like, how do I see this movie? Because I heard it was playing in some places in Europe that weren’t the UK and luckily it was playing at a theater in Milan. The first one I went to, it was not playing in English and had no subtitles. And then I found one that was and this was truly like the second to last showing of the night on the last day that the movie was available. So I’m like, by the grace of God and Sagittarius season I got to see Glass Onion in an Italian movie theater, which was great, but I’m just like so pissed off that I had to be scrambling like I was in a fucking amazing race to see this movie. Like it should have still been playing this week.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I just want to say about this movie in particular, I feel like people who see it in a theater get a way better experience out of this movie than you do watching it just at home where like, you want it. Like it’s such a goofy movie, you know what I mean? Like, everybody has a crazy occupation, and then they get these crazy characters. And where Edward Norton lives is like, insane. You want to hear people reacting to those things, whereas when you’re just watching it at home, like it’s not something like, I don’t know, like, like White Lotus or Game of Thrones or something, but I feel like people can just sit with it. You it needs to be a rowdier atmosphere. I just think it plays way better in a theater.

 

Ira Madison III I will say that White Lotus is so popular because it is a soap opera and Mike White knows soap operas, you know? And it’s the best part about a soap opera is that the plot is languid, you know, like it takes a while for the plot. So there’s you’re really sort of repeating character beats and really just sort of like living in the vibe of it, that kind of like a house of dragon. Like you can watch that and sort of like your attention can dip in and out because it doesn’t really matter if you focus on everything, right? But a film like this, like this is cinema, you know, like this is it’s so much more fun in a theater watching it with people. And I’m not spoiling anything about this movie, but what I do want to say is that new twists in this movie, I think, can be ruined by watching it on that glance, because there’s a specific moment in the film that’s sort of confusing for movie and plot purposes. And I feel like if you’re watching it at home, you might rewind it because you forgot something and if you rewind it .

 

Louis Virtel Yes, totally if you miss a key element.

 

Ira Madison III I’ll ruin the movie for you.

 

Louis Virtel I remember thinking in the theater, I can’t even go to the bathroom because I know I’m going to miss four twists like the movie keeps going, keeps like, you know, it’s like churning out, you know, plot upheavals at every given moment. I also want to say, I think this is the first time I’ve seen Janelle Monae in a movie where I would give her an A. She was really excellent in this movie.Like, Hidden Figures

 

Ira Madison III She turned it the fuck out in this movie. No this is her best work.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, really good performance. Yeah, I think so, too. I think so, too.

 

Ira Madison III Also. Welcome back, Kate Hudson.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my gosh. No, I’m sick of having to rewatch that fucking clip from Nine for the millionth time. Let’s like we have a new Kate Hudson movie here. I do think Glass Onion needs to give a few more comic opportunities to everybody in it. Like everybody could have used three more funny moments, but Kate Hudson gets a couple of scream laughs and we needed that from her.

 

Ira Madison III Kate Hudson was really sort of channeling Goldie in the film too, and I’m just sort of like, please come back to us.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Oh, what a lovely sentence. She sure was. Yes

 

Ira Madison III I love it. I love it. And you know, like going with the theme of talking about Sight and Sound on this episode. Like, I just like I still love seeing a movie in theaters, you know, and it’s honestly it helps for like a movie like Genie Dilman or like I watch I watch Drive My Car recently, too. And that was I watched it. I watched it for the first time on on the plane, back when it felt like once again only because, like, I didn’t get by while I was watching it. So like I didn’t have any other distractions while I watched.

 

Louis Virtel You could be in the meditative space to watch it. Yeah,.

 

Ira Madison III But this era of is the only time I’m ever going to really pay attention to it is if I’m sitting there with no fucking distraction. Like it’s about comparison.

 

Louis Virtel Exactly. No, no.

 

Ira Madison III No snack, no snacks, silence.

 

Louis Virtel If that should be on French currency. Come on.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, that’s our episode. So thanks again to Jim Parsons for joining us this week. And we will be recording a mailbag episode soon. So send us your questions on social media or to keep it at crooked dot com. And of course, I, as always, remember to check out all episodes of Keep It on the uncultured YouTube channel and please rate and review Keep it on your podcast platform of choice, Apple, Spotify, Google Play, etc.. Five Star Reviews. If we got be if we got to get four stars and we’re not the number one diva, then I don’t want it. To paraphrase Whitney.  All right. We will see you next week. Keep it as a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel And Louis Virtel.

 

Ira Madison III Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot, Nar Melkonian, and Delon Villanueva for our production support every week.