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Let’s talk about sex, baby! This week, we’re answering all the hot ‘n’ heavy questions about hookup culture. What does it even mean to “hook up”? Why are society’s patriarchal values penetrating us in the bedroom? What makes consent sooooo sexy? Plus, we debut a new segment: Unhinged with Yasmine.

TRANSCRIPT

Josie Totah: I’m convinced like I need someone to literally. Camille. Camille. Camille. Camille to Camille.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Chameleon?

Yasmine Hamady: Huh??

Josie Totah: Camille.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like Chameleon.

Josie Totah: To Camille, to Camille Vasquez–

Yasmine Hamady: Not Camille.

Josie Totah: their way–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ugh.

Josie Totah: –into convincing me that they want to, like, be around me. Like, I need a four act one woman fringe show.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow. Wow.

Yasmine Hamady: Please. You’ve been in Scotland too long.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The whole Sh’bang.

Josie Totah: I know.

Yasmine Hamady: She’s like fringe.

Josie Totah: Suddenly I’m coming out as lesbian. I mean, like one man. I don’t know. [laughter] Um. I’m like for a man to convince me that, like, I he even that I that I believe that he wants to be near me or around me or whatever, just because of my crippling insecurity. [music break] Hi, guys. I’m Josie Totah.

Yasmine Hamady: I’m Yasmine Hamady.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m Alycia Pascual-Peña. And this is Dare We Say.

Josie Totah: Yazzie boo, what’s up?

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. So this weekend um I went to the beach on my own. I got up. I was about to go to the gym, and I was like, I can go any other day. I’m not feeling 100 today, so let’s go. I took a book with me. I’m reading Everything I know About Love. It’s a memoir. I forgot the author’s name.

Josie Totah: Oh, my gosh.

Yasmine Hamady: Um but.

Josie Totah: I’ve been watching the BBC show that’s based off of that book.

Yasmine Hamady: I’m going to get to it in a second because I want to divest in it or digest in it or [indistinct]

Josie Totah: Wait you’ve seen the show? [laughter in background]

Yasmine Hamady: No. Divest in it?

Josie Totah: Okay does it.

Yasmine Hamady: What, what’s a–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Digest it.

Yasmine Hamady: I also don’t care. [distant sound of producer speaking indistinct] Dive into it.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Dive in. Okay.

Yasmine Hamady: Um. Dolly Alderton. Yes. So. I went to the be–

Josie Totah: It should be noted that I’m currently binge eating cereal right now. Sorry. Continue.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. Let’s note it to. Note it to–

Josie Totah: The court.

Yasmine Hamady: –The Judge that she is to the court that she is binge–

Josie Totah: Let the record reflect. Okay, continue.

Yasmine Hamady: And so I went to Malibu, I lost cell service. AT&T sucks and I get to the beach and I put down my stuff and I just start reading. And there was a sentence in the book that literally sent me into a manic break down in Malibu Beach while all families were just live, laughing, and loving. And it was this sentence: I don’t regret anything I was before because I still am. I only regret not having loved you. [pause] I started sobbing, disgusting snot coming out of my nose in Malibu. I’m getting a burn on my fucking ass because I’m–

Josie Totah: Wait read the last part again. [laugh]

Yasmine Hamady: Let me read it again. It’s I don’t regret anything I was before because I still am. I only regret not having loved you. And I think it’s because, like. I am–

Josie Totah: Not having met you?

Yasmine Hamady: No, not having loved you.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Loved you.

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s like–

Josie Totah: Oh okay.

Yasmine Hamady: –and it’s I think with what’s going on in my personal life of like moving forward after a love affair of the century to the gods, I’m trying to move forward. And also like I’m so lost. I’ve been feeling like in my twenties, I was talking to Alycia about this, like I’m I just turned 24. In three years, I’m going to be 27 and then another three years I’m going to be fucking 30 and then I’m starting to. I literally got goosebumps saying that I’m going to be 30 because I’m so nervous and I know there’s not one timeline to do anything, but it’s like. People are in relationships. People are moving in with their partners. People are like having careers that are like, that are taking off. And I guess that’s because like in the corporate world, you kind of have one streamline of um projection. Where else? Whereas in entertainment you don’t know what the next job is going to be. And so I’m freaking the fuck out and I’m crying when it’s 105 degrees in Malibu, no cell service to document this. So no one believed me. Like, I was just like, what’s the point of all this? Depressing thoughts. And then I went home, sobbed to my mom on FaceTime. She’s in Lebanon right now. And I was like, I’m honestly really lonely, but I’m surrounded by so many people. Does that make sense?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Of course that makes sense.

Josie Totah: And also that is not a unique feeling. Um. I feel like a lot of people are feeling that way right now. And I also think that you are entering a new chapter in your life. And something that I’m realizing myself is that obviously life cannot just be highs and highs and highs and highs because we wouldn’t be able to enjoy everything.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Josie Totah: If everything was just good. And also, like when you grow and when you experience change, you have to shed layers of yourself in the past and like, in order to grow, you need to be in pain a little bit.

Yasmine Hamady: I, I.

Josie Totah: I think.

Yasmine Hamady: I whole heartedly agree.

Josie Totah: That we forget that sometimes when we ask for things in life, like when we tell the world like, Oh, I want a partner, I want a bigger job, or I want this. The world has to destroy, you know, your current state to give you the strength and to give you the courage and the resilience and the perseverance to like fight past those boundaries.

Yasmine Hamady: Mmm.

Josie Totah: And so, you know, Alycia says it, the church says it, new levels new devils. And I feel like you’re just entering this like new place in your life. And–

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. And I’m excited about it.

Josie Totah: And that’s what’s happening.

Yasmine Hamady: And I’m excited about it. You know, it’s like I feel like I’m maturing slowly but surely, and I feel like I’m gaining a new sense of self-love. And when I say self-love, I don’t mean putting an eye mask on and like getting a massage, even though that’s fucking iconic. It’s the fact that, like, I’m having these nights where I’m staying in crying alone. I’m having these nights where I’m journaling and I’m not knowing what tomorrow will bring. And I think that those are so important to have because you wake up the next morning and you’re like, Oh, well, that’s over because today’s a new day. And something that made me feel really comfortable was I asked my mom, did you ever go through this? And she was like. She she went through the exact same thing. I don’t want to go and spill my mom’s tea.

Josie Totah: She was like no.

Yasmine Hamady: But like she was like she was. She was like, no, bitch, you’re alone. No, she she got married to my dad at 21, and she that was her first everything. She fell in love and she was like, this is the love of my life. But then when she got married to him, she was like, what the hell am I doing? Obviously, like, they’re married 30 something years later. They’re very happy, but it’s like it’s okay to second guess every single thing you do in life that is human. And also when it comes to love, even though the pain is so egregious and it literally makes me feel like there’s a pit in my stomach at all times, I would do it over and over and over again if it got to mean that I felt that love. Speaking about that, speaking about life and like the process of growing up, I feel like in Gen Z we do something that um other generations didn’t really like to talk about or like to do, and that’s talk about pleasure, sex, hook ups and all everything in between. In the sheets and out of the sheets. So today, friends, we are going to talk about hookup culture and all the bullshit and amazing shit that comes with it. And then I’ll be taking you on a little journey on my segment called Unhinged With Yasmine. Good luck.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hi, guys. Don’t forget to follow us at @darewesay on Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube.com/darewesay.

[AD BREAK]

Yasmine Hamady: So I’m sure one of the first thing you all are thinking when you see three beautiful, sexy, smart, iconic, humble women is that they fuck.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Yasmine Hamady: Do they fuck? And the answer is–

Josie Totah: Sometimes.

Yasmine Hamady: And the answer is, well, maybe. Yeah, no. None of your fucking business.

Josie Totah: The answer is [laughter] it’s all of the above.

Yasmine Hamady: But also. Yeah. But also, what does that even mean in God’s year of 2022. We’ve got dating apps, we’ve got the traditional go out, meet someone at the bar, we’ve got flirting with friends of friends. Sometimes we have sleeping with friends. But in our generation, casual sex and self-love seem to be a higher priority than actually getting cuffed and settling down and fostering an actual relationship. Especially when we’re so busy with our friends and our careers and all that crazy stuff. So today, friends, we’re going to take you on a little journey of hookup culture.

Josie Totah: Okay, let’s break down what the fuck this even is. Like what is hooking up to you guys? And also what is hookup culture to you guys? Because I feel like some people could be like, oh, I hooked up with him. Ah. Like, your brother was telling me [indistinct]–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: What?

Yasmine Hamady: Who’s brother? My brother.

Josie Totah: Not. Your brother.

Yasmine Hamady: Jesus lord.

Josie Totah: [indistinct] was telling me this story Yasmine about someone he hooked up with at a bar. And I was like, so you, like, had full on intercourse?

Yasmine Hamady: Okay.

Josie Totah: With them in the bathroom of this bar. Or?

Yasmine Hamady: I hate that.

Josie Totah: Did you just like, kiss them and turns out–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I cannot.

Josie Totah: –It was the former, but basically hooking up means something different–

Yasmine Hamady: What do you mean it was the former?

Josie Totah: Nothing. We’re going to continue on. So what if? So what? So what? [gasp of breath/shout] So what is. [laughter] hooking. So. [dog bark sound] So what is hooking up to you like, is it kissing is it a little intercourse, obviously saying it. [laugh]

Yasmine Hamady: Is it kissing, is it little when you, when you kiss a little baby.

Josie Totah: Obviously saying that like penetrative sex, that is heteronormative. But tell me if you were–

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Josie Totah: If I were to tell you. Oh, I hooked up with a guy last Tuesday night.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Josie Totah: Um. Outside of this jazz bar. [laugh] In.

Yasmine Hamady: Outside of this jazz bar in Edinburgh.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: In Edinburgh.

Josie Totah: Like, how would you, what how would you perceive that?

Yasmine Hamady: Easy.

Josie Totah: Uh girl answer.

Yasmine Hamady: You you shared saliva. Personally. And Alycia disagrees with me on this.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No!

Yasmine Hamady: No, no, she does. Because hooking up, in my opinion, is you and a person shared saliva. That I don’t think it’s having sex. For me.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, I fully agree with you.

Yasmine Hamady: Oh?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The reason that I’m laughing is because I am low key so, like up in arms about this conversation.

Yasmine Hamady: Ohh.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because in the past I have gotten myself into really [laughter] interesting situations because someone was like, oh yeah, like, have you like did you hook up with them? And–

Yasmine Hamady: And you said yes even though they thought it was sex?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I was like. Oh! Yeah, I guess I did. And they were like. Oh, okay,.

Yasmine Hamady: You guess you did.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then till this day, I literally just had to explain to someone that I never slept with a guy that they thought that I slept with because I had said yes. I told my, one of my best–

Yasmine Hamady: Thinking it was just kissing?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes.

Yasmine Hamady: Yes.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I told one of my best friend in the world because she had asked me like, oh my gosh, had you guys hooked up? And I was like, yeah, we, we’ve hooked up. And she thought that I meant that I had slept with this man when I have never slept with this man. Thank Black baby Jesus.

Yasmine Hamady: Mmm.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: But.

Josie Totah: I’m sorry to this man. [banter]

Yasmine Hamady: If you’re the man listening. I’m so sorry.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [laugh] If I was this man, I wouldn’t know this man if I was out on the street. [spoken mumbled and kind of slurred]

Yasmine Hamady: Please, please, please.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So to answer your question, Josie, for me, um hooking up is literally just like kissing. Like just.

Yasmine Hamady: I agree. I think–

Josie Totah: Okay.

Yasmine Hamady: If.

Josie Totah: I actually disagree.

Yasmine Hamady: Go on.

Josie Totah: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: Okay why?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think a lot of people do.

Josie Totah: Yeah I disagree. I disagree because I think if I were to say that I hooked up with someone, I would only say that if I slept with them because just because I don’t know, maybe because I’m just a little bit younger than you guys. And.

Yasmine Hamady: Oh, shut up.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: How dare you.

Yasmine Hamady: Oh, literally, shut up.

Josie Totah: There’s just this, like. I’m a year younger than Alycia, there’s just this culture, like.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Two.

Josie Totah: With, you know, the– You love that. You love that, don’t you? You really do.

Yasmine Hamady: I’m so bored by that. Continue.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [indistinct] Continue. What is wrong with you?

Josie Totah: Yeah anyway.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You’re the one who brought up age, you weirdo.

Yasmine Hamady: I love my ageist queens.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: Both of you. Both of you.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: What!?

Josie Totah: I love being ageist. I love being ageist. Um but anyway.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: She said, you love that. [?]

Josie Totah: So listen. So listen. So anyway, if I were to say that I hooked up with someone, I would assume that they were saying that they would assume that I was talking about sex. So that’s why I don’t say that, because I just feel like people. I don’t know. I, Yasmine you have to agree with me.

Yasmine Hamady: No, I, I, I.

Josie Totah: I think people say oh we hooked up–

Yasmine Hamady: No people do say that.

Josie Totah: And they are talking about sex.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: I agree with that. And I–

Josie Totah: Just because you believe that doesn’t mean you don’t know–

Yasmine Hamady: Correct.

Josie Totah: –that that’s how–

Yasmine Hamady: But I.

Josie Totah: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: And I do think that’s a direct correlation with hookup culture.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely.

Yasmine Hamady: And that’s the [?] —

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think most people associate that word with intimacy, like having sex.

Yasmine Hamady: Correct. And I think with hookup culture in today’s world, I think it’s um casual sex, especially in Gen Z. I was reading this article um from Vogue UK and they were talking about there was a study of Gen Z is the most like sex positive generation, but also we have higher um boundaries in sex. What do you guys even think hookup culture is?

Josie Totah: I think hookup culture is un non-emotional hooking up and um friends with benefits, but also sometimes not friends and just benefits and um people having misunderstanding of what they want out of their situationship.

Yasmine Hamady: Okay, Alycia?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. Frankly, I just see it as like relationships that like lack substance. It’s like very transactional.

Yasmine Hamady: Uh.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I personally have had like only such a negative like perspective–

Yasmine Hamady: Sure.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –On hookup culture because I just feel like it’s a generation like trying to get answers and trying to see like what they can get from people um in quick ways. Like like quick gratification through sexual intimacy.

Yasmine Hamady: Grat– instang gratifi–Got it. Yeah, I think. I think both are correct at the same exact time. I think hookup culture is this idea of having um casual intimacy with one or more people at the exact same time with and at the without trying to catch these feelings for whatever reason. I also–

Josie Totah: Without trying to catch these hands.

Yasmine Hamady: Without people trying to catch these hands and feelings. I also feel like.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Honestly.

Yasmine Hamady: In.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I feel like people catch these hands more than they catch these feelings.

Yasmine Hamady: For you.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, what?

Yasmine Hamady: For you.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No! Not not me.

Yasmine Hamady: For you. For you.

Josie Totah: For you.

Yasmine Hamady: Because people catch these feelings more–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ohhh.

Yasmine Hamady: Than they catch my hands. Well, that’s something I want to bring up.

Josie Totah: I catch flights.

Yasmine Hamady: In. Yeah, Josie does.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow.

Yasmine Hamady: In our community. I’m going to bring up something a little deeper. Yeah. She catches flights.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Flights, hands, feelings.

Josie Totah: Flight. Josie is flights.

Yasmine Hamady: Alycia is hands.

Josie Totah: And sometimes Covid.

Yasmine Hamady: And Yasmine is feelings and all three are Covid. And so I think [laughter] in our community, and  in our upbringing, it’s really led us to three different perspectives of what hookup culture is like. For me, um growing up in an Arab household, I was taught like women specifically when it comes to like dating and getting to know men, it’s um we have to be quiet, talk less, listen more. Close your legs. I was loud. I talked more than I listened. I–

Josie Totah: Legs spread eagle.

Yasmine Hamady: My legs spead eagle. [laughter] I’m kidding. But I think because of that. I, I, I’m going to just be honest. My parents are not going to like this. But, when I was 17, I met um a guy on my birthday and three days later I was so eager to lose my virginity that I had sex with him. Three days later.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: Literally outside and–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait what.

Yasmine Hamady: Outside.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait I’m sorry [indistinct].

Yasmine Hamady: I lost my virginity outside on a cliff.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: How outside? Oh.

Yasmine Hamady: On a cliff. Um. [laughter]

Josie Totah: What cliff?

Yasmine Hamady: And so he brought a blanket. It was outside. He took me to this cliff where firefighters usually park their truck in the– And, like the top of a hill. If there was ever, like, um a fire and he he.

Josie Totah: Why in a fire would they go to the top of a hill?

Yasmine Hamady: I don’t know–

Josie Totah: To park their truck?

Yasmine Hamady: If there was, if there was a fire in the hills. I’m from Palo Alto babe.

Josie Totah: Oh. Okay.

Yasmine Hamady: And so. He um he–

Josie Totah: Yeah we know.

Yasmine Hamady: We like didn’t even like, have any foreplay. I was just like, no, like, just do it. Like, I’m just ready.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, my God.

Yasmine Hamady: And I, but I think, okay, we’re laughing at that. But I think like thinking back because I suppressed so much want and desire because of my upbringing, I was so eager to just give it out. Give out whatever intimate um wantings and like desires I had. And it was, I it’s not my parents fault for doing this and it’s not my fault, you know, I don’t regret anything, but it’s because of how society and our culture um thinks about sex and intimacy, it’s. That’s how the outcome comes out.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s social conditioning.

Yasmine Hamady: Completely.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like we’re told as women, that we need to prioritize the pleasure and the happiness of the man, that we need to be well-liked, that we need to not speak too much, not be too opinionated. So we’re not deemed abrasive–

Yasmine Hamady: Hundred percent.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Or Aggressive. So it’s–

Yasmine Hamady: No one wants a loud girl.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Exactly. So I think it’s social conditioning–

Josie Totah: Well.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like we live.

Yasmine Hamady: Well in the bedroom. They want a freak in the sheets and a and a what is it? A cla– uh.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I want a lady in the streets but a freak in the bed.

Yasmine Hamady: Freak in the sheets.

[sung together] I say yeah, yeah, shawty get down.

Yasmine Hamady: And try to get me. [singing]

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Anyways. Anyways. It’s social conditioning and then I think that there is and also like because you know we live under this patriarchal society but in addition to that, if you come from certain households, like you guys come from Middle Eastern household, I come from a Latino, um Afro-Latino very Christian household, that that really shaped my worldview about intimacy and about dating and stuff. Like, as you guys already know um and people who are close to me know, uh I wore a purity ring for–

Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Most of my childhood, like even up until I left college. Um. And honestly, I don’t regret it. Because I felt like my celibacy empowered me as a young woman. I felt like it didn’t. It didn’t make me feel forced to have to engage in like the hookup culture and like the insanity of like college dating.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then, be like. I I personally felt empowered by my journey. But at the same time, I would be naive to not acknowledge that I think it created some unhealthy bonds um that I now have as an adult woman with a sex because I like.

Yasmine Hamady: Yes.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what I mean? Like.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: For example.

Josie Totah: A level of uncomfortability.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. Like.

Josie Totah: And fear of vulnerability.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I, I naturally I think innately I’m not the most vulnerable person. But on top of coming from a household and coming from a culture that said, sex is for marriage and you should be a wife y ahora te puede casar. Which is like.

Yasmine Hamady: And you do it on your wedding night? Like you–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Exactly.

Yasmine Hamady: –Save yourself.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Ahora te puede casar is like a saying in Dominican culture that is still very popularly said. And that means like, oh, now you can get married. And that’s the goal. So when you cook well, you clean well. Like that is the goal. And I think all of those factors.

Yasmine Hamady: Yup.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Really shaped um my uncomfortability in a lot of ways. It’s funny because we all explained like we have different definitions of hookup culture. Like as young women right now, how do we feel like we engage with hookup culture?

Josie Totah: I feel like, well, so Yasmine and I and also you, all of us went to a predominately white, sort of like wealthy institution. Like a university that was full of like rich white folks. And I remember going to parties where I it was literally like a domino effect. It was like it was like the human centipede where.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ohh [in disgust]

Josie Totah: Every–

Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm.

Josie Totah: –Single person there had slept with another person there who had slept with that same person with the other person. And [indistinct]

Yasmine Hamady: And we all laughed about it.

Josie Totah: So it was like–

Yasmine Hamady: And I’m saying we because I was, I was I took part in that.

Josie Totah: And I didn’t. But not by choice. No I’m just kidding. Well, no, no. Um. No. But I think that that was weird for me. Like, it was weird for me to have crushes or think people were cute that had also been with my friends.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Josie Totah: I just do not navigate like that.

Yasmine Hamady: A hundred percent.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Josie Totah: And I think both of our colleges did did have that environment.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: For sure.

Josie Totah: And I think a lot of that mixed with me just being afraid to like put myself out there and just like think of myself as like, like a fucking turd that was like um had a nice body, but, like, still a turd. Um. Until now. I obviously I don’t think that anymore, but that would be like– [laugh] Did I just say that I was like a turd with a nice body?

Yasmine Hamady: Who had a nice body. I was going to say. We’re definitely making that as an infographic. Like for the Instagram.

Josie Totah: I’m just trying, I’m just picturing what that looks like. Um. But anyway, so. I yeah, I would struggle with that. And I remember just feeling really weird about the fact that like, everyone was okay with hooking up with the same people.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Josie Totah: And that like, it was just so casual, like, to me. And maybe it’s because I wasn’t the most comfortable with my body and I wasn’t the most like empowered in who I was. But to me, like, sleeping with someone in school just seemed so like normal to these people and so easy, like, oh, I slept with him. Like, I can’t imagine. I feel weird being in the same room with with people that I’ve been intimate with. Not in that. Not to say that I’ve been intimate with a lot of people or that I even–

Yasmine Hamady: But it’s still.

Josie Totah: –Enter the same rooms as those people. But I wouldn’t want to, you know?

Yasmine Hamady: No.

Josie Totah: Because to me that’s awkward.

Yasmine Hamady: It no.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Josie Totah: And like strange. But somehow in school, that’s normal.

Yasmine Hamady: Completely. And I also think in college and I also think like in our twenties at least, like the intent to go out is to get laid. And I’m not saying that’s how it should be.

Josie Totah: That is such a thing and male validation.

Yasmine Hamady: It’s the. Male validation. So much of like even like I partook in that where I was like, ugh, I can’t I want to, I want to hook up with someone tonight. The amount of times where my friends and I’ve been like, wait, so like, who is our like target? Like, who should we try to like flirt with a little bit and like–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: –Kind of like give an eye.

Josie Totah: It’s, it’s as if that’s the only sort of way of gaining happiness in a night. Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: And guys would literally raise their finger and girls would be like, yeah, I think he wants to fuck me. When it’s like they make–

Josie Totah: Especially at our school where 99.99999% of the men looked like they were in the catalog of like a gap outlet. Like–

Yasmine Hamady: Like vineyard vines type bitch. Like they were all of–

Josie Totah: But not. But not even because it wasn’t like UCLA or USC.

Yasmine Hamady: No.

Josie Totah: It was like it was truly like like the morongo of fucking outlets. It was like–

Yasmine Hamady: If they’re not–

Josie Totah: –the [?] Park outlets of men.

Yasmine Hamady: They’re not cute. Like they were. And I see that so often. Also, like living in L.A., you see these mediocre men–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh my god.

Yasmine Hamady: –With these beautiful women, and I’m just like, how is this happening? How is this happening still?

Josie Totah: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: And then all–

Josie Totah: The women at our school were like models.

Yasmine Hamady: Were beautiful like and it’s I’ve seen so many times my friends and I, who are such beautiful women get treated like absolute shit. I’ve been manipulated like, hey, like you should come over tonight. I come over, like I want to take you to this formal. And then the next day he’s like, I actually have a girlfriend. Just to get just to get, like affection.

Josie Totah: Bitch. Wait why didn’t that happen to me?

Yasmine Hamady: See, Josie like that’s so normalized. And I think that’s part of hookup culture is because–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: I. What. Remember I sent you that TikTok yesterday. So there’s this TikToker named the gardening theologian and they posted this like dissertation. They’re at like Berkeley or Harvard. And they were talking about like as long as there is, there’s a patriarchy. And I hate saying the patriarchy, but it’s true. As long as there’s a patriarchy in heterosexual relationships, it is almost impossible to foster actual love. Because as feminine identifying people, we want to fit this mold inherently. Even if we say we’re not and we don’t care. Because of the patriarchy. We are trying to please the man. We are. And it’s literally how we’re brought up. It’s ingrained in our brain to to be what the guy wants. And so often we have to act like we don’t care which is a part of hookup culture. Like we we don’t catch feelings, like we leave the morning then right after or like right after sex ends when the men finishes. What the fuck is that? So. And even in media, in movies, you’ll see, like. Let me paint the picture. Like you’re in a movie, a guy and a girl. They’re in, they’re hooking up. He starts making out with her real quick. He flips her over, takes off her pants, starts fucking her like he he’s going to war. He comes, they finish. That is not how sex is.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: It shouldn’t be.

Yasmine Hamady: That is not how sex is.

Josie Totah: I feel like hookup–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that’s–

Josie Totah: –Culture also makes you more emotionally unavailable because it it makes you like, prioritize, like winning and gaining points.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Josie Totah: Then it is like having actual feelings and like experiencing happiness, if that makes any sense at all. Like.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely.

Josie Totah: I feel like hookup culture makes me want to be more emotionless and to be more like goal driven as far as like, oh, I check I checked [coughing].

Yasmine Hamady: She just choked.

Josie Totah: Oh my god.

Yasmine Hamady: She literally choked, can someone CPR her?

Josie Totah: That was a ghost. That was literally the ghost of um my non-existent sex life. [coughing] Wait. [laughing] Coming through my throat.

Yasmine Hamady: Cumming through your throat. So true.

Josie Totah: In down. Anyway so. So. [laughter] So. So. So So. So. So. Um. That made me I feel like when I first had my first experiences with boys um be like like like a, like a she devil cunt. Like, I would–

Yasmine Hamady: Yes she devil cunt.

Josie Totah: I would be like really mean.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Josie Totah: Like really mean and like um not put any effort and I remember. My um best friend Mayron, who is no longer like this but used to be a fuck boy. Um. He’s in a very beautiful relationship now–

Yasmine Hamady: He’s a recovering, he’s a recovering fuck boy.

Josie Totah: He’s a recovering fuck boy. And I remember I told him, like, what I had done to this guy, which wasn’t that bad. And he literally. He looked at me as if I had, like, shot a cat on the street.

Yasmine Hamady: Please.

Josie Totah: And was like, I’m disgusted in you. And I’m like, You are the biggest–

Yasmine Hamady: Hypocrite!

Josie Totah: –like man whore I’ve ever met. But the fact that he was like actually hurt by what I had done made me realize like, wow, this society has taught me to, like, just not be myself and to protect myself at all costs. And by being a, like a little f girl, you kind of do that. But then and then you don’t find any enjoyment in that at the end of the day because you haven’t been yourself, you’re not having real experiences. But.

Yasmine Hamady: When I first moved to L.A., I was like, I’m ready. I’m not going to catch feelings. I don’t want a boyfriend. I’m young. And that was when I thought like mm I was only like romantically into men. Um. And so, like, I remember I would always like, I would go on dates with guys, we would like drink a little bit and then we’d just start hooking up. And I always felt so empty the next day. And I always felt so anxious. Like both of you, how many times have I asked you? Should I text him? Wait what should I say to him? He hasn’t answered. Should I double text? Wait do you think he actually likes me? When it’s like they’re participating in hookup culture because they own hookup culture. Because hookup culture was literally inherently made for men. Um. Whereas I had to act like I didn’t have feelings and suppress my vulnerability and suppress my actual emotions because I was so afraid of getting hurt. When like, hate to say it, I think we can all agree I’m a feelings girl. I catch feels so fast. Someone will look at me nice and I’ll be like, yeah, that’s that’s that’s my husband. Yeah, that’s wifey right there. When it’s like, babe, they didn’t even talk to you. Do you know what I mean?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. I personally feel like I think it’s beautiful that, like, as a society, we’re so sex positive and I, like, encourage people to like live in what feels right to you.

Yasmine Hamady: Mmm.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that’s different for each person.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So be as promiscuous. Have as many sexual interactions, with safety of course, um as you see fit. But I personally felt like I didn’t really engage in hookup culture.

Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I still don’t because for me, as like sappy as it sounds, um I feel like intimacy is like an energetic exchange. And that’s just my truth. And I don’t think that that’s for everyone. I think when I was younger, I naively thought um that sex meant the same thing for every person.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that is not true.

Yasmine Hamady: I have a question for you, though.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: For sure.

Yasmine Hamady: Did you feel shame that you weren’t partaking in hookup culture?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Never.

Yasmine Hamady: Good.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: If anything. I felt like I was happily sitting on a bench watching an insane basketball game.

Yasmine Hamady: Please.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, that’s how I always felt about hookup culture.

Yasmine Hamady: Well they were all players.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I still do. Like, I felt like everybody was trying to win a game that there was, like, no end to.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Cause, you know, like, I had a lot of, like, amazing, like, brothers in college who, like, are not actually my siblings, but like, like wonderful platonic relationships with men. And they kind of were echoing the same thing as like what my friends who were women were echoing in regards to like, I just don’t feel seen. I just don’t feel heard. Well, let’s see. Like, yeah, all of us have all of these barriers up and we’re refusing to talk about things and refusing to, like, actually say what we want and refusing to set boundaries so nobody ever really meets each other. Everyone’s too scared to take a step out. Like, I personally like that when I was in college, and when I was in high school like um that, I wasn’t engaging in hookup culture.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I still like, casual intimacy, and casual dating is not something I do.

Yasmine Hamady: Sure.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. I just think it’s just because like I’m an intentional person with everything I do, but like I. I encourage other people. Like, if that is something that you want to do and you want to date multiple people and you want to have your roster, great. But just don’t, don’t take emotional consent away from other people. I think a lot of people engage in hookup culture and don’t tell–

Yasmine Hamady: That’s–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Other people the truth about what they want or what they’re doing. And that is what I despise about hookup culture and honestly, why I feel like a vieja. Which means like an old lady about it. And I’m just like, I don’t do it and I’ll never do it. Because I’m not going to sit here and play this little game back and forth. Like we’re too grown and I know my worth and I know how–

Josie Totah: And I don’t think I’ve ever. Oh, sorry. I thought you were done.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, no. I was finishing. How much I value my time.

Josie Totah: Keep talking.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So I’m not going to waste it with somebody that’s going to play with me. You feel me?

Yasmine Hamady: 100%.

Josie Totah: I agree. I don’t think I’ve ever fallen victim to hookup culture in that way. Just because I’m convinced, like I need someone to. Literally. Camille. Camille. Camille. Camille to Camille.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Chameleon?

Yasmine Hamady: Huh?

Josie Totah: Camille.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like Chameleon.

Josie Totah: To Camille. To Camille Vasquez–

Yasmine Hamady: Not Camille.

Josie Totah: –their way into–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh!

Josie Totah: –convincing me that they want to, like, be around me. Like, I need a four act one woman fringe show.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wow.

Yasmine Hamady: Please.

Josie Totah: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: You’ve been in Scotland too long.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The whole sh’bang.

Josie Totah: I know.

Yasmine Hamady: She was like fringe.

Josie Totah: Also suddenly I’m coming out as lesbian. I mean like one man. I don’t know. [laughter] Um. Like uhhh for a man to convince me that, like, I he even that I that I believe that he wants to be near me or around me or whatever, just because of my crippling insecurity. So I’ve never been like, oh, were we something more? Because I just assume that I’m like a little rock on the street with, like a short, tiny skirt and like–

Yasmine Hamady: Please.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop.

Yasmine Hamady: Not a rock on the street.

Josie Totah: Like a strand of hair.

Yasmine Hamady: Literally.

Josie Totah: Um. But so that’s why I haven’t been hurt by it. But you definitely have Yasmine. I feel like you’ve definitely–

Yasmine Hamady: Alright. So.

Josie Totah: –like been hit with people who you thought was something more. And it wasn’t.

Yasmine Hamady: Well, because.

Josie Totah: I only say that because you’ve told me that.

Yasmine Hamady: No. And I’m grateful that you did say it because I feel like, I feel like our listeners, I want. You’re not alone in this where it’s like. You will never meet anyone kinder, sweeter, more generous, loving, than a guy trying to fuck you for the first time. You’ll never. You’ll never. They will say anything that you want to hear.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely.

Yasmine Hamady: And that’s the part where, Jo– Alycia, you brought up the emotional manipulation.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. And the consent.

Yasmine Hamady: And the consent where it’s like guys have literally. I have talked to men till sun up about our dreams and aspirations and things happen and then I never hear from them again.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s like. And then I end up, I stay up for weeks mourning this one night where I’m like, did I do something wrong?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No.

Yasmine Hamady: Was I the problem? And now, like, I’m grown and I realize um I’m damn well not the problem. I’m literally a pot of gold, anyone would be so fucking lucky to have me.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I agree.

Yasmine Hamady: Which takes a lot of work, because sometimes I feel like I’m. Um along side Josie. I’m a rock with a skirt on, on the side of a street.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No!

Josie Totah: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: And it’s it’s these men.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: But they’re doing intentionally.

Yasmine Hamady: Thats what they’re taught. They’re doing it intentionally–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because they want you to–

Yasmine Hamady: Or unintentionally, because society literally makes them the patriarchy. But it’s true. Like it makes them–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: It doesn’t serve us or them.

Yasmine Hamady: No it doesn’t where it’s like these these men also have feelings, but because they’re so ingrained to not feel, to not be in touch with their hearts, they’re like, No, I just want to fuck. And that’s it. And that hurts.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. And a lot of men are like cosplaying in like masculinity and what they think they’re supposed to be when–

Yasmine Hamady: And also, like, when they’re hooking up with you, can I just, let me. To all my, like, cis men who are watching our show or listening, please, please, please, please. The sexiest thing in the world is to communicate. In bed and out of bed. Ask us, does that feel good? Talk to us. Do you like it there? Don’t just whip out your dick and expect us to, like, open our legs. Invest in emotion, invest in intimacy. Does this feel good? How does that feel? Are you okay? Does that feel okay right there. Talking about consent is the sexiest thing. Obviously, you don’t need to get, like, out of the moment, but bring it into the bedroom. And these men don’t understand that.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Consent is sexy. Like–

Yasmine Hamady: It literally is, just [banter] they’re fingering you and they’re like, is this. Does this feel good? And it’s your fucking belly button.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ay dios mio. Ay dios mio.

Yasmine Hamady: It’s your belly button. Like–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: The amount of times I’ve looked at men, but also, like, just platonic friends in my life. And I’m like, tell me the truth. Not what you think I want to hear.

Yasmine Hamady: Yup, yup.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because so many people are trying to sell you some shit. Like, I’m also like. Like, I don’t think that I know everything in the world. I’m young. I have so much to learn. But I would like to say I’m pretty perceptive and I could tell when you’re just saying things to stroke my ego or like I’ve had men, which is so peculiar. I’ve had men, like, play the spiritual route. [gasp] Like, especially like when I had a purity ring, like–

Yasmine Hamady: That is aw– That is insane to me.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like dabolical.

Yasmine Hamady: That is.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Dabolical.

Josie Totah: The lord told me–

Yasmine Hamady: That’s diabolical.

Josie Totah: The lord told me that like–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: A special place in a dark place for you.

Josie Totah: –I’m meant I’m meant to be with you, bro like.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like!

Josie Totah: God said to me like–

Yasmine Hamady: He’s a Corinthian 69. [laugh] Like, it’s just like what.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop, stop stop stop.

Josie Totah: He said. He said to me. He said like you’re supposed to be in my life bro like.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, Josie knows that there has been multiple men in my life that has, have told me. God told me I’m supposed to be with you. Those exact [small scream] verbatim words.

Yasmine Hamady: Did he?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I and I’ve been like.

Yasmine Hamady: Did he?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And my answer is always the same. Thank you so much. That is really beautiful. But the Lord hasn’t downloaded that information to me yet.

Yasmine Hamady: Not the downloading information.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I haven’t gotten that update yet.

Yasmine Hamady: It’s still processing.

Josie Totah: He didn’t send me that email. [indistinct banter]

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. So. I didn’t get. You know that’s that Slack. I didn’t get that–

Yasmine Hamady: Not Slack.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Sweet notification. So I’m going to continue um doing me and–

Yasmine Hamady: If we meet up amazing.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You feel me like and if this is something that naturally organically happens and we connect intellectually and emotionally and all of those things happen, cool. And I feel like it because I also can be like jaded and cynical, which I’m working on.

Yasmine Hamady: You?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I know, never.

Yasmine Hamady: Never.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Then this is something that I’ll decide to engage with, but it’s just, it’s just sad. I’m just like so many people are like, cosplaying and putting on a facade and I’m like, just be you. Just be honest about what you’re doing. You just want casual sex. Cool. But let that person know. Don’t be too scared and cowardly about the situation. Be like–

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, just be upfront.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –I’m going to tell this girl, which I think is what a lot of men have done with you historically is a lot of men have, like, because I’ve seen it with my own eyes. We all lived in the same house together. I saw men coming.

Yasmine Hamady: Love bomb me.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And and literally, like court you because I like, I don’t believe in, like, casual dating. Like, I want to be courted. And thank God–

Yasmine Hamady: And these guys court me.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –The men in my life have.

Yasmine Hamady: They literally take me out.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: They will court you. They will say all these things. They will talk about your family. They want to meet your friends and then be like, wait, I don’t want anything with you. And then it leaves me sad because–

Yasmine Hamady: I’m the one crying in my room.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: With Alycia and Josie holding me because and I’m wondering and I know I’m not alone in this because how many women and also people feel like this when.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So many people.

Yasmine Hamady: And it sucks so badly and it’s like and I feel like this is like characteristics in hookup culture. You have like the player, you have like the girl or the person who has that catches feels, you have the prude, you have all of these things and you’re like, as long as you’re the one, as long as you’re like, not a cis man, you’re damned. In hookup culture. Do you guys think that there are do’s and don’ts of hookups? Obviously communicate at all times. Are there the do’s and there’s the don’ts?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm.

Josie Totah: I think do communicate. Do say how you feel. And not only be honest with the other person, but be honest with yourself. I think hookup culture can be a really easy place to not have to do the hard work for yourself and for your partner. And to just, like, kind of skim through life in this frequency that doesn’t expect anything more than you other than just your body and your presence in bed with that person. I think if you really do want something more, you have to be honest with yourself and you have to recognize that, like hookup culture, hooking up may seem fun and cool because you don’t have to be emotional, you don’t have to be vulnerable. But like, if you really want something, you have to be honest with yourself.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Josie Totah: You have to be willing to fail and you have to be willing to get hurt. And you can’t get trapped in the cycle of of hookup culture if that’s ultimately not what is best for you. And I think that that is a hard lesson for a lot of people to learn. And then I also think sometimes it’s like, if it’s good for you, it’s good for you. Like if you if you do want that and you have the–

Yasmine Hamady: If you’re down to fuck and you’re like, okay, with detaching. [banter]

Josie Totah: Then fucking do it bro. [banter]

Yasmine Hamady: Alycia, what do you think?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um I echo a lot of like what Josie says. I think an additional do, because I think all of her dos are iconic. Um. Like when someone tells you what they–

Josie Totah: [?] my dos.

Yasmine Hamady: Please.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. When someone tells you what they want or who they are. Pay attention and listen. Like.

Yasmine Hamady: Ahh.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like I think a lot of like my sisters will, like, believe in the hope that they have for that relationship. And I’m like, baby, that’s not serving you. So in addition to, like, what Josie said, like, be honest, communicate, have a foundation of respect, that just human respect.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: For that person, but also um be introspective and be honest about what it actually is and what they’ve told you they want and what they don’t want. They said this is never going to be a relationship and I don’t believe in monogamy. Then maybe baby girl, let’s not get that invested until maybe things change one day. I would say the don’ts for me is like, don’t feel the need to lie. Don’t feel forced to do things that feel unnatural to you. Don’t pander to that person, um girl, gay, they them like whoever it may be, like don’t pander to the person you’re hooking up with and um make yourself uncomfortable for them.

Yasmine Hamady: For their comfortability.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. And don’t lose yourself and like, don’t feel the need to be disingenuous about who you are. Like, I think a lot of people wanted me to feel bad about, like not engaging in intimacy for a very long time and would, you know, like call me prude or say this or say like, oh, you should be hooking up more. No, I am who I am and be proud of that.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because you’re amazing and you’re beautiful and it’s okay if your journey looks different. But if also if you want to turn up, girl. How about you, babe?

Yasmine Hamady: I think both of you guys said it perfectly, but I think dos and don’ts of hookup culture. Do, always communicate, always communicate, always be on the same page. I also promise you that if you’re communicating and you’re both on the same page, the intimacy is so much hotter. More than just like emotionally. You feel so much better afterwards. It’s like you you asking what your partner or the person that you’re with wants and what they need, and they ask you what you want and what you need, is the sexiest, most incredible feeling in the world. And also, as I’ve grown, when I’m having these emotional, intimate relationships with people, I’ve realized when I’m comfortable enough to ask. I like it there. I want this. Can we cuddle after? It is so much hotter than me having to put my clothes on after or me like having to leave the house and be like this feels so degrading. Don’t um. Don’t. Don’t be an ass. Just don’t be an asshole.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Don’t be an asshole.

Yasmine Hamady: Don’t be an asshole. Like. Be empathetic. Treat others how you would want to be treated if you know that you’re being a dick. Why be a dick? Literally, it costs $0 to just be kind and honest. It literally costs $0. All in all, you have us telling you right now. Be honest, be sexy. Be yourself. And if they don’t like you, they can go kick rocks. [music break]

Josie Totah: Welcome back. Nothing is literally more crazed, colorful, dynamic, like a dumpster with a little confetti bomb of joy. Then, Yasmine’s dating life. [pause] So this is our– [laugh]

Yasmine Hamady: I have nothing to say to that.

Josie Totah: No, no, no. This is our segment where we basically check in with Yas and um look at some of her more crazier interactions with the people of the world. And it’s only in one room, and it’s this room called unhinged. [music chirps] So, Yas. What’s the latest tidbit you can share with your hinge profile?

Yasmine Hamady: Hi, everyone.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hi Yas [?].

Yasmine Hamady: Hi! So just to make this clear, I’m 50% on hinge for ego purposes, and the other 50 is maybe I’ll find a connection with one of these crazy people. So this week.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Period.

Yasmine Hamady: There’s a there’s a guy named Jack. Already I don’t trust him. I don’t care what he has to offer, but he’s hot. So I liked him. And so that’s my own fault.

Josie Totah: Wait.

Yasmine Hamady: So.

Josie Totah: Is this the guy–

Yasmine Hamady: Yes.

Josie Totah: –That we worked on in the middle of the night.

Yasmine Hamady: Worked on. Yes we did.

Josie Totah: Four days ago.

Yasmine Hamady: Yes, we did.

Josie Totah: And I was writing an essay.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Worked on together.

Yasmine Hamady: No. So he’s 25. He’s from the Gold Coast. I think that’s in Australia or something. Queensland, one might argue.

Josie Totah: This interaction is fire.

Yasmine Hamady: It’s unhinged on hinge. And so the first thing he says to me, not hi, not hello, not you’re really pretty. He says, [pause] big boobies.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love that that’s–.

Josie Totah: No no no no.

Yasmine Hamady: No I just want silence.

Josie Totah: Wait no.

Yasmine Hamady: I just want silence for a second, I’m going to say it again. [pause] Big boobies. What the fuck.

Josie Totah: No it wasn’t just–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Chivalry is not dead.

Josie Totah: No no no. It wasn’t just the words he was saying. It was the way that he wrote. [gasp] He spelled it out phoetically.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes! There was like spaces in between the letters. It was giving serial killer.

Josie Totah: He wrote like B space O space O space B–

Yasmine Hamady: And then–

Josie Totah: It was like there was an art to it.

Yasmine Hamady: After consulting my consultant, Josie Totah.

Josie Totah: Oh my god hearing my name sounds so cute.

Yasmine Hamady: I wrote back to him. S m a l l  P e n i s. [laugher in background]

Josie Totah: Spelled out in the same way.

Yasmine Hamady: Same exact way. You can throw bitch, but I can throw harder. And then he replies and I’m like, Oh, I so got him there. That’s it. I like cut his cord.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s the end of convo.

Yasmine Hamady: That’s the end of convo. But–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No.

Yasmine Hamady: –nevertheless he persisted. And he said b i g in the same spelling with a penis drawing. Like of the eight and the equal equal sign, and then a capital D, p e n 1 5. Penis. And I said with once again consultation with my consultant.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Josie Totah.

Yasmine Hamady: Josie Totah. Tell your dad I’m going to be a little late tonight. I’m running a little behind. [laugh] And I thought, No, no, no. I thought I got him there before. No, I got him this time.

Josie Totah: Wait it’s the way I was literally writing an essay about Amal Clooney. And like talking about her work for the UN. And then just on the side, this whorish behavior.

Yasmine Hamady: No. I’m doing the UN’s work right now.

Josie Totah: Yeah no you are.

Yasmine Hamady: And so.

Josie Totah: This is UNICEF.

Yasmine Hamady: This is literally UNICEF.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Humbling men is like–

Yasmine Hamady: And I’m literally doing God’s work right now.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Exactly.

Yasmine Hamady: And then he says, I said, I’m running a little behind. And he goes, you’re fucking a skeleton girl. As in his dad’s dead! [screaming]

Alycia Pascual-Peña: His dad passed away y’all.

Yasmine Hamady: And then I don’t reply. [sound of someone beating their fists on table]. Like–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: His dad passed away.

Josie Totah: I actually didn’t get that. When you sent that to me, I didn’t get that.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait what?

Josie Totah: I didn’t get that part until now.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I sat in the car in silence as we were on our way to go somewhere.

Yasmine Hamady: To a club. We’re on our way to a club and I–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: We just sat there in silence for 2 minutes.

Josie Totah: Wait, wait.

Yasmine Hamady: You guys.

Josie Totah: Wait wait so you know, my original pitch for that?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes.

Josie Totah: Oh, fuck.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Do you want to share your–?

Josie Totah: No, no.

Yasmine Hamady: No, no. And then we’re continuing. And I was like, I don’t know how to reply. Maybe I just won’t reply.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love that there was a writing room for your hinge conversation.

Yasmine Hamady: There was a writing– And then he goes–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was moral support. I was the girl getting coffee.

Yasmine Hamady: He says. He says. If you’re looking for my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it off your mum’s sheets.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: This is a real conversation with a real person. [yelling]

Yasmine Hamady: That I! First of all, Mum? I live in America.

Josie Totah: Wait.

Yasmine Hamady: Mom, you fucking Australian koala. [laughter] Like, I don’t care. Like fuck off.

Josie Totah: That’s xenophobic. No, but this is–

Yasmine Hamady: –is why I don’t give a fuck.

Josie Totah: Wait continue.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: [shouting indistinct].

Josie Totah: This is what–

Yasmine Hamady: And then.

Josie Totah: –Angered me even more.

Yasmine Hamady: And then he says, you guys. I reply after once again consultation from my consultant Josie Totah.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Period period period.

Yasmine Hamady: Not before I clean up the trail of disappointment you left for your parents. This was a few minutes of my life. I’m never getting back.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was like, can we–

Yasmine Hamady: Bye, baby. And then he says.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You said parents, like his father, was not deceased.

Yasmine Hamady: Well, good.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: After you knew that.

Yasmine Hamady: I hope I fucking reminded him that– [banter] you know what, let him be.

Josie Totah: So the first sentence was my pitch. And I think I said parents because I um. I didn’t see the skull, the skeleton thing. But if I had read that he had a dead dad.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh yeah. There was a skeleton orgy, right?

Josie Totah: If I had read that he had a dead dad, I would have fully said parents and then parentheses (jk parent). And then with a–

Yasmine Hamady: And you know what I god damn–

Josie Totah: –with the asterisk. I would have said that.

Yasmine Hamady: I goddamn, should have. Sorry.

Josie Totah: I know, that was such a missed opportunity.

Yasmine Hamady: And then I said, and then he says.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I don’t cosign any of this.

Yasmine Hamady: And then he says, damn shawty, leaving with her hoof heels crying face. Um they’re actually Tabby’s and they’re very expensive.

Josie Totah: Wait. There’s a photo of her with this shoe called Tabbies and then they–

Yasmine Hamady: Tabbies and they’re fucking–

Josie Totah: They look like a horse hoof.

Yasmine Hamady: –and they’re fucking. They’re their fucking–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So ugly. 

Yasmine Hamady: –Fashion you [?], you weirdo. And then I don’t reply. And then nevertheless once again he persisted–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: He persisted.

Yasmine Hamady: And he says, P.S., you’re nailing your Peter Pettigrew impression for all your photos. [yelling] This is Peter Pettigrew from Harry Potter! [laughing].

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I didn’t know who it was.

Josie Totah: Guys look, look him up.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: When she showed me, I–

Josie Totah: –or go to our Instagram because–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait.

Josie Totah: There’s the. We’re just going to post a photo of this character on our Instagram with no caption. [laughter from hosts and producers]

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Guys wait wait wait.

Yasmine Hamady: First of all. You swiped right on me. First of all, you swiped right on me.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Literally literally. And he was hitting you back up because he wanted to continue the conversation.

Yasmine Hamady: He wanted to and also.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: He was wanting it.

Josie Totah: That was hard.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then he fell back.

Josie Totah: It was hard. Did you respond?

Yasmine Hamady: No.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No.

Yasmine Hamady: Cause I was like, I’m bored. But now I’m like, I feel like I need to–

Josie Totah: My my pitch was.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I kind of want to see where else it goes.

Yasmine Hamady: I want to hurt him.

Josie Totah: My my response–

Yasmine Hamady: Emotionally.

Josie Totah: My response pitch was it wasn’t. It was, if that if that’s your type, then you I think you’d be better off on scruff, babe. But —

Yasmine Hamady: Which is–

Josie Totah: It was less hard of a pitch, it was more just like an honest fact.

Yasmine Hamady: It think like it was. I think you had just tried it. I was just like.

Josie Totah: And I failed.

Yasmine Hamady: I’m just so exhausted. Ugh. Like I’m so sad.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I do feel really bad because I didn’t know who that character was. And when he–

Yasmine Hamady: Peter Pettigrew. He’s like–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Was she?

Yasmine Hamady: He turns into the rotten Harry Potter from the Prisoner of Azkaban and he goes like this [making a face and making strange mouth/skin sounds] [laughter] I’m like, do I fucking look like that? You just called me. You just said I had big tits five seconds ago. And now you’re saying I look, like, Peter Pettigrew?

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Beause he was hurt.

Yasmine Hamady: Pick a side. [loud banter] Pick a side koala.

Josie Totah: He’s into the androgyny.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No it was giving the New York energy of when a like when a guy on the street is like, Yo, [?] can I talk to you.

Yasmine Hamady: Right and you’re like no.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Can I talk to you, whatever, whatever–

Yasmine Hamady: And you’re like no.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: –and you’re headed and you’re headed to the train and you’re like, Oh, I can’t talk. And they’re like, that’s why I wasn’t fuck with you anyway.

Josie Totah: You ugly fat bitch.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s why you got a big stomach.

Yasmine Hamady: Yeah literally.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then you’re like, Damn.

Josie Totah: Umm that’s insane. What have we learned from that?

Yasmine Hamady: I think everyone what we learned.

Josie Totah: Comes with guns blazing harder than ever?

Yasmine Hamady: They might come for you. Well, you can come harder. And their dad.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm come for their dad.

Yasmine Hamady: And come for their dad and their mom. Thank you.

Josie Totah: And in them.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, god.

Yasmine Hamady: Nope. Because they don’t get that.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Nope. No.

Yasmine Hamady: Also I think I think–

Josie Totah: Oh well he’s dead so that’d be necrophilia.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh my god.

Yasmine Hamady: I think [laughing] I think the thing is, what I learned is that we shouldn’t just take things. So if they’re going to be inappropriate, fuck it. Give it right back.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I am proud of you. He chose violence and you said, baby, I’m coming for you. [music break]

Josie Totah: Okay. Wait, wait, wait. I think that I love that we did this a while ago, which is where we dare ourselves to do something. And I think maybe this doesn’t really have anything to do with Alycia, because you said that this isn’t this topic doesn’t really relate to you because you don’t participate in it. But you still could dare yourself to do something. In the era of hookup culture and hooking up and of boys and gals and gays and dolls and um aliens. I think we should dare ourselves to do something um for our growth. And I think for me, I’m going to dare myself to be more honest with myself about what I want.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm.

Yasmine Hamady: Mm.

Josie Totah: Because I think sometimes we lie to ourselves. And I have told myself a tale or two.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think I dare myself to live in my unapologetic divine femininity, but also lean in to like what can scare me sometimes, which is like softness and vulnerability.

Yasmine Hamady: Mmm.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: So I dare myself to do that and give people a chance. I guess I say begrudgingly.

Yasmine Hamady: Okay, everyone, I’m glad that we all heard Alycia say that. Now we have it recorded.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: No I didn’t. Take it out.

Yasmine Hamady: No we can’t. And we won’t.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: All right.

Yasmine Hamady: Um.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: You Yazzie boo? Yeah. I dare myself to give myself all the love and affection and um care that I want from others to give me. Whereas I have someone with me at all times who has the biggest heart in the world. I have to give myself all the love and care because I have so much love to give. And why the fuck am I not giving it to me? Because I deserve it.

Josie Totah: Yeah.

Yasmine Hamady: And so do you.

Josie Totah: And we dare you guys all to do the same. And I think we should end on this beautiful quote from a notification that just came up on my phone, which is that Dogecoin is down -6.47%. So take that with what you will. End up–

Alycia Pascual-Peña: That was really moving and poetic.

Yasmine Hamady: And also live, laugh and love, baby and fuck Marjorie Taylor Greene. [laughter].

Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yay! [clapping sounds]

Josie Totah: Dare We Say is a Crooked Media production.

Yasmine Hamady: Caroline Reston is our showrunner, producer and mommy, and Ari Schwartz is our producer and Show Daddy. Fiona Pestana is our associate producer and Sandy Girard is the Almighty Executive Producer.

Josie Totah: It’s hosted and produced by me, Josie Totah.

Yasmine Hamady: And me, Yasmine Hamady.

Alycia Pascual-Peña: And me, Alycia Pascual-Peña. Vasilis Fotopoulos and Charlotte Landes. They are both our engineers. Brian Vasquez is our editor and theme music composer. Our video producers are Matt DeGroot, Narineh Melkonian and Delon Villanueva and Mia Kellman.

Josie Totah: Lastly, thank you to Jordan Silver, Gabriela Leverette, Jesse McLean, Caroline Heywood, Shaina Hortsmann, Deisi Cruz, Danielle Jensen, and Ewa Okulate for marketing the show and making us look so damn good.