“Emmys; Mean Girls” w. Mayer Hawthorne | Crooked Media
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January 17, 2024
Keep It
“Emmys; Mean Girls” w. Mayer Hawthorne

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss the Emmys, Mean Girls the Musical the Movie, The Traitors season 2, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Ariana Grande’s new single, and why they hate Elmo. Mayer Hawthorne joins to talk appreciating vinyl, throwback music and his new album For All Time.






Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison the third.


Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel. I’m on cloud nine because I’m awash in awards. Still, they are just pummeling us with awards this month.


Ira Madison III I think everyone has been confused about why the Emmys were directly after the Golden Globes, and you would be forgiven for wondering that because, um, you know, it’s not like many people mentioned the strike last night. Uh, or why the Emmys. Yes. Got pushed back. Truly. Just, uh, the John Oliver team.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes. And also, um, I don’t know that I prefer that the Emmys be an actual part of the, uh, gantlet of awards that we get at this time of year. But in a way, it’s always been kind of weird that they were in September. So I’m just embracing this break from normalcy for a second. Even if the same people from television that won awards last week won them this week. And it’s sort of a no win scenario for those people because, like, how charming can you be while, you know, having to act humble and excited to be there and surprised while winning the same award, not only at the Golden Globes last week, but also at the Critics Choice yesterday and then or, uh, then the Emmys the day after.


Ira Madison III I would say. And we’ll get into this when we talk about the full ceremony this week. But then, you know. One, the stylists are running out of looks, okay. Some  people were looking a got damn mess at the Emmys. And it’s you just got event after event after event that is like that is truly like packing for a destination wedding or like a destination birthday or something. By the second, third day, you’re you’re rewiring things. You’re sort of like this thing I brought didn’t fit. Like, what are we doing here? And I would say that also if we’re going to move the Emmys, I like the fact that they can all sort of be in the same season. But if we’re going to move the Emmys, we got to get out of the old requirement of where it was tied to the traditional network TV schedule, because friends were watching it with me. And we’re talking about, oh, why is that fellow travelers or something nominated? It’s almost like, was it the show on in 2022 or something? And I’m like, right, fellow travelers will be nominated next year. Yes. Which means we are going to see Matt Bomer and Jonathan Bailey at the Emmys next time for a show that we’ve already sort of forgotten about. Someone else brought this up, particularly in terms of The Bear. Um, the fact that Evan Moss back wrapped one, um, for The Bear in supporting last night, but they pointed out the fact that every person voting for the Emmys definitely thought that they were voting for season two of this show, because he has a big sort of spotlight episode in season two that makes him a more important character. And he’s really on your mind this season. But if you were voting only off of having watched season one. You wouldn’t be handing the Emmy to him necessarily. Especially when there were bigger, splashy or people also in that category, you know?


Louis Virtel No, there are lots of TV shows nominated where it’s like, I mean, that was on so long ago. I can’t believe we’re still having a conversation about them anyway. Um, even like The White Lotus, I was like, I’m thinking back. I’m like, who did I really love on that show? And everybody was good of 900 nominees. Yeah, it was like they got a bus to bring them on.


Ira Madison III I was happy to see them again, but then I was also like, Jennifer Coolidge have it. We already celebrated this performance already. Like it’s it’s time to move on from season two. We’re about to we’re we’re awash in the season three casting already. Uh, so I truly sort of was happy and I feel like it was very funny when she said thank you to all the evil guys. That was good, but that was good. But and knowing how these guys are trying to kill me, um, permeated culture and would not go away. Much like, uh, hi, gay or well, yes. I feel like we should do two months of, uh, gay men with nothing originally funny to say. Just just quoting thank you to all the evil gays. Any time you’re anywhere in a setting of more than three gay men.


Louis Virtel Right? And they all have now, like Etsy pillows with that stitched in already and stuff like it’s already overdone and boring, whatever. But speaking of a new TV that is actually happening right now, I did over there you can watch three episodes of Fucking Traitors. Now this is where I belong. I want to be. I want to be with scheming people who are. I don’t know that. Well, it’s not that they’re scheming, it’s that they are. It’s worked out for them in the past on other shows like Survivor and Big Brother, and now they just get to call themselves master manipulators, whether or not they actually are. We just like to believe it. It’s a little bit of a Santa Claus thing. And that said, I’m almost concerned about this cast because they’ve inspired so many major names and master manipulator entertainment on this season. You’ve got Dan Gheesling from Big Brother, you’ve got Parvati from Survivor, you’ve got Sandra from Survivor, you’ve got nefarious housewives, you know, just like they’ve hit many major names already. In addition to Alan Cumming, who is bringing capital Z zeal once again to this hosting role.


Ira Madison III I absolutely fucking love this trailer so much that I watched all three when they dropped on Thursday on Peacock, and then I watched them again this weekend with my friends who had not seen it yet. And I can’t stop talking about the trailers for people. I can’t stop texting people. I love that it’s sort of. I love that it abandoned the regular people this season, because last year I felt like they didn’t really jump in with sort of gusto, uh, with giving you good TV. And I feel like now that everyone is on the same playing field, they’ve been on reality TV before. Everyone is sort of game for being a bit, um, crazier. But I will also say that we’re seeing a bit that that’s to the detriment of Dan Gheesling, who hasn’t been on TV in like a decade since. Right, big Brother when he was on and then this season where he should have won against entry. But he’s sort of doing a laid back, like trying to stay out of the shadows version, which works on Big Brother. And it does not work on a show like this. And we’re seeing how, um, his sort of method of playing the game is backfiring a bit, and it is fun to see now in season two of the show and seeing other, um, sort of additions of it to in the UK and Australia, that people are able to start forming strategies for how to play the game because the first season was very much if you were a faithful who are the good people trying to weed out the trailers? Uh, sort of like you’re playing the game Mafia. We’re at sort of this extreme disadvantage, I felt like, because you didn’t really know the rules of the game, you’d never played it before. But now, having seen season one, I feel like people are coming in and bringing sort of an A-game to season two. We’re trying to weed out who the traitor is.


Louis Virtel Yeah. So if you haven’t seen The Traitors, as I were just said, it’s a lot like Mafia or Werewolf, where a couple of people are selected by the producers to be, um, traitors. And like, they are supposed to be sussed out by the townspeople, contestants, and they don’t have much to go off. Really. Honestly, I love the casting on the show, but I honestly think the trailers as a concept is like the maestro movie of reality competitions, which is the talent is there, the working is there, the look is fabulous, it looks incredibly expensive, but the fact of the matter is, they don’t have much to do in terms of fooling the other players. I think it takes a bunch of episodes where you get to a point where they have anything even to work off of, in terms of sussing out who the villains are. So at first, like there was a big hubbub online where trishelle of of course, the real. World. Las Vegas fame got Peppermint Drag Race legend eliminated because she said, you reacted strangely to something I said, and she took that to mean that peppermint is a traitor and couldn’t keep the facade together. And then people online sort of said about trishelle, well, this feels transphobic or targeted, whatever this show is about targeting and they have nothing to go on literally, you know, and also peppermint would be a good trader. She’s so immediately likable, you know, you would not think, oh, well, this person, you know, this person’s utterly guileless. How could they be a traitor? So I found that, like, they have to eliminate somebody and they have nothing to go off of. And we as the audience, it’s hard to know who to root for or against in that case. Like, who has the harder time manipulating who? It’s hard to say.


Ira Madison III Um, I would just say that two things are true here. One, you do have to eliminate somebody. And peppermint after that moment didn’t really defend herself well.


Louis Virtel No, right.


Ira Madison III But I will also say that Trishelle, from what we’ve seen on the challenge and her conflicts with Anissa and other women of color, that I would say that she has very big. Isn’t your seat in the back of the bus energy?


Louis Virtel Uh, okay. That is specific. Yes.


Ira Madison III So also the fact that she anticipated, by the way, that she was extra to Peppermint Trishelle message Peppermint showed by the screenshot that she put online several hours before the episodes actually dropped on the day of them dropping. So how much did you really care?


Louis Virtel Yeah. That’s interesting. Or maybe she just realized, I mean, maybe she got the episodes early and watched them and then realized how I came across. I have no idea. It appears they are at least giving The Traitors interesting, strange things to do now. Like, oh, now you have to find this, uh, in episode three, there’s like a poisoned chalice where they have to give it to somebody and then slip it like they have ways to kill the other players. That isn’t just they have their secret caucus and randomly kill off people. That’s another problem with the show. Like the people who get eliminated. It’s not like the mole where, um, oh, you did the worst on the mole quiz. So you’re eliminated by it’s you. These people can just literally eliminate the person who was playing the game the best.


Ira Madison III Mhm. Um, which I think is interesting in a way, because it also puts in strategy because you have to play the game well, but you also have to play the game in a sort of flashy, showy sort of way. Cause if you’re Marcus Jordan, who, spoiler alert, got killed by the traitors, that’s because you were specifically talking to a traitor and pinpointing to them, um, that, um, you sort of knew who they were, right? But Marcus was really always shown saying that to Dan. If you’re a person who sort of is bigger at the round table, I feel like expressing an opinion that you think data is a traitor like MJ or shockingly, Larsa Pippen, uh, who is usually the dumbest person on The Real Housewives of Miami, um, is somehow razor sharp here. Um, if you’re showy like that, and it’s very obvious that you are targeting a specific person, it is harder than to just kill you because you’re playing the game very well, because then that will throw suspicion on you as a traitor, you know?


Louis Virtel Right? Right. Um, I will say I feel like I’m missing a conversation among the contestants on this show where they rightly decide, logically decide. Wouldn’t the producers pick a known master manipulator to be one of the traitors? It feels like they aren’t thinking. Maybe they just aren’t that familiar with all of these shows. But it’s like you wouldn’t have this season of television unless Dan Kiesling, someone like him, is one of the traitors and he is one of the traitors this season. Um, and they recruit Parvati, of course, one of the legendary survivor players. There’s really, like, a core group of 5 or 6 people here who are known for their dastardly reality competition ways, and I don’t feel like anybody is on to the fact that this season of TV would not exist unless one or more of those people was in the conspiracies. Uh, was a traitor.


Ira Madison III Absolutely. And I will also say that I do like that they added in this season the opportunity to grab shields and safety within the competitions, because largely I felt like in the first season the competitions were the weakest part of.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III The show. I still think there needs to be somebody else added to the competitions that sort of mixes it up and.


Louis Virtel And links it to the gameplay.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel It literally just they make money at in these giant games where they have to run across fields and dig up things and meadows and stuff, and then that’s completely unrelated to who gets eliminated or what the traders do or what they have to do. And so it’s like there’s there’s no conversation between elements of this TV show.


Ira Madison III Um, even something where the mole happens and there are people taking money from the pot, etc., you know, there needs to be a little something else going. Going on within the challenges, and I don’t know if that involves two teams or something, but the challenges still remain sort of the less interesting part of the show, because a traitor is always going to be doing well in the challenge, because they want to make the same money that the faithful do.


Louis Virtel Right? So everybody’s just on one team. Yeah, there’s not even really they’re battling against each other or they have reason to distrust each other. So yeah, even though the fun of the game sort of goes away there, even though Alan Cumming is, of course, dressed like a gay child playing dress up, that’s what he looks like to me. You know, like I he has a cape and a saber for some reason and he’s running around a field. It’s really funny.


Ira Madison III But I will say the show’s just fun and camp. And now I think they actually have the contestants living in that castle, unlike last year where they were not. Yes. And so there’s just nothing like those shots of people. Yes, I would curled up with a teddy bear or, um, laughs are reading this book, um, every time I go to the bed. And I also just want to say, yes, you would expect, like a dead guy’s leg or a Parvati or Sandra to be a traitor. Um, sort of obvious that they probably would have picked a housewife, right? But I just want to lastly say that Phaedra Parks is running away with this show. She is such a delicious traitor. She’s so fun and relishing in it. And because she has the built in housewife alliance, she is so good at going undetected, but also so devious in how she’s playing the game. When she was consoling Larsa after Marcus was taken out, when she was wiping tears away from Deonte’s face because the stress of the game was getting to him. She is really, really fun in this game and I love watching her.


Louis Virtel No, It’s nice to see when somebody is surprisingly suited to be, um, devious, you know? I mean, not not that she isn’t on that show, of course. Like, you know, hilariously sinister, as she sometimes says. But on this show she is much less detectable. One and two. She’s smoother at the game than Dan Kiesling, who was who literally spent all of his time on Big Brother telling us how good he was at this kind of thing. So it is really interesting.


Ira Madison III Uh, and very, one last spoiler, because this happened in the last the third episode, uh, very smooth at protecting people, that she walks to that chalice moment with Parvati where she said, oh, you’re not about to kill Sheree. Yes, yes, I Parvati.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III And like that is smooth and also just smooth in the fact that episode three, Dan and Parvati are discussing what to do with the chalice. And then you get a confessional for Phaedra, where she is sort of talking about whoever they kill. She will find out about it, because her M.O. of playing the game is, I don’t spend time talking to her, hanging out with the people who are the traitors until we get to that room. Right. Whereas Dan and Parvati are sort of conspiring together a lot, but they’re used to a show where you have to do that if you’re in an alliance with someone, right?


Louis Virtel Right. Oh, no. These are literally the most seasoned at this activity. People in existence. There’s nobody else who has done this more than Dan and Parvati.


Ira Madison III Well, this week we have got the Emmys, of course. Uh, another awards season episode from us. And we also have Mean Girls The Musical, the movie, which is out. So we’ll get into that excellent joke about Mean Girls from Tina and Amy at the Emmys last night.


Louis Virtel Yes. Oh my God, they were maybe my favorite presenters the whole night. I mean, as expected, they’re wonderful with us.


Ira Madison III They should have been longer. I was expecting a whole weekend update from them, which would have been really fun. But we also have the delightful Mayer Hawthorne here to talk about his new album, For All Time. So, uh, we’ve got a pretty good episode for you coming up next.




Ira Madison III Keep It continues our awards show coverage with the Emmys sets. The awards just took place the season of Ayo.


Louis Virtel Ha.


Ira Madison III Reached it’s zennith. And we all know I’m talking about Ayo Edebiri, uh, and also Kieran Culkin as well. His rise is sort of reached its zenith now, particularly for him, I guess, because succession is over now. But I was sort of, um, risen up as the star within The Bear, and I sort of see a lot more awards in her future for this show alone. You know, I think it’s only in season two. So it seems like one of those shows that the Emmys gonna latch on to, and then we’ll keep rewarding it for years to come. And it’s hopeful that it’s not just her as the lead getting a lot of awards. It’s not just Jeremy Allen White. You know, there’s a there’s a full cast of people that it seems like the Academy wants to celebrate and probably will over the years.


Louis Virtel Well, let’s just be clear. Giving a speech at an award show is its own art. I mean, truly, it takes preparation. It takes planning. It takes a sense of humor and awareness about yourself and an awareness of the audience. And even if you don’t have Anthony Anderson’s mom yelling at you about the time you have, efficiency is key to making it work well, and a debris is just all of those things. She clearly respects comedy because it’s about she has like quick joke, quick joke, quick joke, sincere thanks, sincere thanks, sincere thanks. And I’m out. There’s never a lingering for even a split second when she gives a speech. And of course, we just saw her do that at the Critics Choice Awards and now the Emmys. Weirdly, last night. I don’t know that I have ever seen an award show run to time like that before. It started at five and it was done by like 7:57.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel You know, like not a second over. And a big part of this, as I just said, was Anthony Anderson’s mom, who was a big part of his comedy. They are always working together. She works with him on, uh, his reboot of To Tell the Truth. She’s always on that show. She interrupted Jennifer Coolidge’s speech, um, and told her to speed it up, which, when it happened. I have to tell you, I got a little answer, you know, because Jennifer, I did too.


Ira Madison III I did.


Louis Virtel Maybe she takes an extra second to give the speech, but the lines are there. Like Jennifer Coolidge comes to play when she comes to an award show. So I felt a little upset on Jennifer’s behalf. But at the same time, I do believe she traumatized everybody into playing by the show’s rules.


Ira Madison III She did.


Louis Virtel And maybe that’s why everybody got their speech down to time. So I kind of am thankful. Ultimately, even though I think Jennifer Coolidge had 3 or 4 more awesome jokes in her by the time her expected win for, uh, White Lotus, uh, was over.


Ira Madison III Absolutely. But I will say we’ve heard them.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Uh, okay.


Ira Madison III I’m ready to move on from season two of The White Lotus, and I’m ready for Jennifer Coolidge to be in anything else? Yeah.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I don’t really know what we can expect from her. Are coming up. I’m excited. Which, by the way, did we ever even just discuss White Lotus season three casting? Because there are exciting names.


Ira Madison III Carrie Coon.


Louis Virtel Oh, no, no. Here’s the thing with Carrie Coon. Put her on any TV show. I mean, she does. She belong. And she’s like Edie Falco or something, like she belongs wherever you put her. But like Parker Posey, who was so amazing in so many movies, we talked about Party Girl recently on the show. Um, I need her to be amazing. I need it to be the best performance that’s ever been on The White Lotus. Um, and I’m worried we’re going to get anything less than that. And I just need this for her. And the reason I’m thinking about her. I need a new audiobook. After I finished the, you know, 48 hour Barbra Streisand. I’ll say masterpiece, but it’s really just. I’m going to call it a zoo. It’s not a book. It’s a zoo. Parker Posey is the one I’m listening to next. And so I’m tapped into her journey as a true Crispin Glover level weirdo.


Ira Madison III Has Parker done television?


Louis Virtel She did do Lost in Space, but you’re right, she’s largely the indie movie.


Ira Madison III Okay. Yeah, the My Lost in Space has Joey Tribbiani in it. Okay.


Louis Virtel Yeah. She also was in Grace of Monaco, a movie that has been lost to time.


Ira Madison III Uh, wasn’t Nicole in that.


Louis Virtel It is Nicole and Milo Ventimiglia and the idea of Monaco. That is what is happening in that movie.


Ira Madison III Four things I love. But you put them together.


Louis Virtel Yeah, not much going on, weirdly. Nicole Kidman, once upon a time was routinely, um, compared to Grace Kelly. And I want to say it’s because of her hair in The Others, but otherwise.


Ira Madison III Hmm.


Louis Virtel No. Not nothing. I mean, like, they have nothing in common, pleasing voices. I don’t I they have nothing in common to me. I don’t know why we thought we could do that.


Ira Madison III Was the Mika song, the, um, theme for the movie?


Louis Virtel That would have been inspired, actually. Actually, it wouldn’t have. Would have been like in maestro. When they play, it’s the end of the world as we know it, so we can hear the words Leonard Bernstein. Bradley, what was going on? No. Hahahahahahahaha.


Ira Madison III Every time I find someone who says that they love maestro, I’m always very confused. But I will also say that it doesn’t inspire. I was angry last week, but that’s just because we’re supposed to be angry on this show. It’s called Keep It. You know, uh, is it really doesn’t inspire the character that much ire at me. You know, I’m just sort of like. Huh? Okay.


Louis Virtel It was very much ado about nothing, is what I would say on that movie. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Which, by the way, what I went to see. Anyone but you. I discovered that it was based loosely on Much Ado About Nothing. I did not realize that until I started watching it. And I was like, these two are being awfully Beatrice and Benedick. And then when all the Shakespeare quotes kept popping up in random places throughout the movie, I said, you know what, Will Gluck. I’ve had enough.


Louis Virtel Huh? Wow. I didn’t know that I should have put it together, because, by the way, the title totally sucks, and I guess it’s now a maybe a little bit of a throwback to that title. Anyone but you was just so one and a half star VOD rom com from 2007. I just can’t believe it’s the title.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s it’s also it’s it was an enjoyable movie. I will say.


Louis Virtel I enjoyed it.


Ira Madison III I did I did enjoy it. Uh, mostly because of Glenn Paul’s body.


Louis Virtel Uh, yeah. No, we talked about this before. She. I felt like, needed to do the Aniston part of a rom com a little bit better. And also, by the way, it’s a movie that takes place in Australia where Rachel Griffiths is a character, but she’s not playing Australian guys. We just. What is with that aura Burrows? What happened.


Ira Madison III There? She’s also blond and so it took me quite some time to figure out.


Louis Virtel Interesting choice right? No, I did not know on first glance either. Anyway, back to the Emmys. Um, you know what I found? Unfortunately, a little bit depressing about this Emmys. Even though it was a swiftly run Emmys. They had all these quote unquote reunions of old TV shows, except every time two or more people were missing. So it just wasn’t a reunion at all. They did. Cheers. So who’s on stage, Mr. Ted Danson? Of course. Mr.. George, Reg, uh, John Ratzenberger, Rhea Perlman, Kelsey Grammer, who is on Frasier still, by the way. But who was missing in this chair? Sorry. Bebe Neuwirth, Shelley long.


Ira Madison III Um.


Louis Virtel That’s not a reunion if I’m not seeing Shelley Long.


Ira Madison III What happened to women?


Louis Virtel That’s what I’m saying. Precisely. Um. And I, Kirstie Alley, of course, can’t be there. I don’t remember the reasons why, but if you’re going to do a reunion, it just has to be full like they did ally McBeal. And, like.


Ira Madison III Well, she’s half of those.


Louis Virtel Whereas I know that, I know where’s where’s Rusty Lou? Where’s Vonda Shepherd? Peter McNichol. Lovely to see him, but it just wasn’t a full reunion half the time.


Ira Madison III I was also wondering who cooked up the gig. Listen, I love the production of this Emmys. It was the first time there was an all black, uh, executive producer team, um, handling the show. But, uh, I do want to know what was happening behind the scenes with the picking of the tributes. And I guess it’s who’s available, you know, to and what tributes you’re going to do, etc.. But, um. The yeah. The mishmash of like jumping from different show to show was fun at times. Um, but sometimes they work, sometimes they didn’t. But that’s always just going to be the nature of comedy and things like that. You know, I felt like, um, Charlie Puth singing I’ll Be There For You was lovely. I always love to see Charlie sing, but the the absence of the friends cast made me think maybe they are going to do something to honor Matthew later. But then also they just did the friends reunion too, with him there, and it’s probably still raw, so they don’t want to do anything as well. Um, the Gray’s Anatomy one was the weirdest.


Louis Virtel Yes, because again, specific people are missing two nights, right. Where is Sandra Oh?


Ira Madison III Yeah. Where was, um, a cut to Isaiah, um, putting anthrax into letters in his bunker, um, in the woods?


Louis Virtel *laughter*


Ira Madison III It was very nice to see Katherine Heigl, though. Who is glamor. Okay. Katherine Heigl, I love that bitch. And it was nice seeing her on stage with these women again. Yes.


Louis Virtel Put her in red. Oh. Show business. Yes, we missed that.


Ira Madison III That was a reunion. That was really nice to see. It’s all knowing the history of all of those people and seeing them back on stage together. Uh, that sort of tugged at my heart strings. And I fucking loved the Martin reunion, you know?


Louis Virtel Oh, please. To Tichina Arnold, who Keep It alum, uh, utter treat. The comics timing is still like pop, pop pop. Tisha Campbell fabulous. Even though I believe she did sue Martin Lawrence in the last season of that show. So it was happy to see them reuniting, too.


Ira Madison III Yeah, they, um, had an unfortunate, um, uh, lawsuit situation going on. Um, but it was nice to see them all. And Thomas Ford passed away, but it was nice to see a photo of him on the table and cop hand. He was always so funny on. Martin was the funniest on the stage to me, by the way, and the. Why didn’t we get an Emmy bit? We can always be a little sad, especially when it’s just black people doing it. Because, like, we know why you didn’t get an Emmy. Uh, because you weren’t a white show and you were on Fox. But I will say Carl Payne making the Emmy joke very funny paid off more when the It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, uh, cast riffed on it. And I actually loved seeing them United two and it was very funny. And then talking about we’ve been on the air for 15 years. We’ve never even been here before. And then you have Danny DeVito there where he’s like, oh, well, I got some Emmys. Uh.


Louis Virtel Also, it’s just cool hearing like I have. I was backstage at the Emmys doing a Kimmel’s bit with GMA, where he interviews all the winners, sitting back to back with them. And I was backstage when the It’s Always Sunny cast was on TV. And when we were watching a monitor and Tichina Arnold passed by and she was looking at the TV and Danny DeVito mentions Taxi and she just screamed at the TV. Yes, like because she loves Taxi. It’s like, I don’t know, there’s something about the Emmys where it is nice just to remember. Oh, remember those old shows we still all remember and love? That sounds so basic, but it’s like under what other circumstances would Taxi be brought up on TV? Even like, you don’t even really hear Danny DeVito talking about it much anymore. So it’s nice to see a program like this not just honoring, um, the fact that there’s all these old TV shows that you may or may not be seeing in on streaming anymore, but also like we still remember them recording those shows and stuff. So I was just pleased to see that.


Ira Madison III I really loved that aspect of the show too, because I feel like the Oscars are really fun when they celebrate cinema and celebrate everything that’s been in the theaters, um, that year, regardless of whether or not it’s nominated for something. Right? Yeah. And I think that this Emmys was a good step forward in that direction, because there’s a lot of fucking TV shows out there. And if you’re going to have a ceremony where The Bear and Succession sweep everything and it’s boring for everyone else to even be there, uh, as you’re seeing this happen, um, and there’s sort of, like, no suspense or upsets that might necessarily happen in the Globes or the Oscars. It’s less likely that there are going to be upsets at the fucking Emmys. Uh, it’s nice to see things, celebrate it. And I think we could go even a step further, like have people from other shows that are on the air and celebrate those genre shows and other things, uh, you know, and let people really feel the love of television, because not just Martin and It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I just constantly think about shows like, um, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, you know, which people loved so much when it was on the air. And critics constantly champion that show, and it only ever got, uh, I believe one writing nomination. And that was for the episode, Hush, in season four. Um, you think about shows like that, which aren’t the prestige shows now, or the shows that were primetime, um, network dramas on the big networks like ABC, NBC, um, CBS. Those were always historically ignored. And I think the Emmys should do a lot to celebrate TV that I feel like everyone watches. Because wouldn’t the ratings go up if, you know, like Riverdale or something isn’t going to be nominated? Pretty Little Liars isn’t going to be nominated. But shouldn’t the cast be there? And shouldn’t we see clips and things from the shows that people actually do watch at home?


Louis Virtel Or, and like older shows that have like gained legs over time, you know, things like. So I will say there there is something about the idea of quote unquote TV that everyone watches that I think has made the Emmy Awards rollout less interesting, because I feel like they’re still kind of clinging to a monoculture vibe. And so the rare TV show that everyone does watch, the Emmys sort of feel obligated to acknowledge or award right away, like The Bear is a rare show where it kind of got around to everybody, you know? And so it’s like, uh, like Schitt’s Creek and like that year where Schitt’s Creek won everything. And I feel like that feeling makes voters say, oh, this is necessarily the best if it’s, you know, reach that large an audience and they feel awkward ignoring it. But at the same time, to give TV shows something in every category just feels bizarre to me. I don’t know, it’s just like, I don’t think any one TV show is that much better than any other TV show.


Ira Madison III Voting down ballot at the Emmys is very weird.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Um, it’s it’s just like my, uh, my old maxim. I don’t trust anybody who stands. One thing, you know, uh, there’s something wrong with you. If you think one thing is necessarily the only great thing in existence are so much greater than everything else.


Ira Madison III And I tweeted this, but I felt like we’ve talked about this before to the voting for something every year. Two it is not to take away from things winning stuff multiple times, but also. When Modern Family or you used to have The Amazing Race winning all the time, or you would have, um.


Louis Virtel Veep or whatever.


Ira Madison III Yes, all the time it is. There are so many TV shows that there are so many people doing amazing fucking work on TV, and it’s just, it’s so weird that the Emmys in particular, as opposed to film awards, uh, really just sort of the voters dig in and get their comfort thing and sort of celebrate it all the time. And at least you always have people constantly doing something different in film. So that’s why you get, um, different people getting nominated sometimes and different wins, even if it does end up sort of being the same people winning stuff all the time, like a Meryl Streep or something. It’s it feels a little different and it feels like there’s more variety, you know? But that’s because actors have to work with different directors and writers and production teams and every movie, you know, and it’s just right. The show did it one year. It’s like they’re not doing the exact same thing every year. And sometimes you can’t even tell me that the people are still watching that certain shows three years later. It’s just, well, it was good this year, so it’s always going to be good that year, you know?


Louis Virtel No. Well, it’s an interesting voter conundrum because it’s like you do want to vote for the best thing. And so if something is the best one year, it’s likely that the quality won’t utterly diminish the next season. Like you may want to honor it again, but I think there’s also this other like devil angel on your shoulder saying like, but it’s boring to give the same people the same awards, especially if new things come along. And, you know, if there’s a new TV show, it’s responding to a new feeling and culture. So it’s like there’s more relevance necessarily to that thing, right? Or in theory. So, um, I do find the the battle that voters have with, uh, as Emmy voters interesting. But at the same time, I just feel like we’re moving to a place where because there’s such a variety of television and so many people are voting that in a communal way, they are obligated to pick the thing that the most people have seen and agree is at least a little bit good. You know, it’s it’s less they’re less likely to pick a riskier thing, you know, because they’re clinging to the the power of monoculture, which as we know, is dwindling. It’s why Taylor Swift is still like the Grammy queen. Right? She’s like the only monoculture thing. So you have to necessarily give her awards.


Ira Madison III Or she gets best album. This year there will be a riot for me.


Louis Virtel I’d, uh, one damn riot. I’d like to see that.


Ira Madison III And also, obviously The Bear drop into the public consciousness because Jeremy Alan White became sort of a hot star, you know, and the Calvin Klein ness of it all. And, um, eo debris, um, is also become a star. It’s been so interesting to see both of them rising at the same time. Also, it is I, uh, as I bri, I keep saying al because of the Nicki Minaj of it all. Uh, but you know, in case there’s anybody in the YouTube comments with something to say, I’ll meet you in Gag City.


Louis Virtel Where you’re imprisoned. Uh, you can’t leave the only one there. Yeah.


Ira Madison III One of my favorite speeches of the night, uh, which was very heartfelt and also funny joke- joke because it came from a very funny person, Niecy Nash.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God, who doesn’t want to see her win awards? She had a Daytime Emmy before. This is her first Primetime Emmy. But when she said, I’d like to thank me, we haven’t seen behavior like that since I believe Little Richard. Uh, and that is that is a legacy. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Uh, and it just felt so self-affirming to add and very relatable. And when she was in the press room afterwards, um, she expounded on it and just said that when you are an actor working for so long and, um, you’re constantly told, no, you’re not right for this part, etc., you’re not, um, getting any recognition from your peers or your industry. Only you know how many times you’ve cried at night, how many times you’ve wondered, you know, how are you going to pay your bills, like if you’re going to get another part? And so she did want to thank herself. And I love that.


Louis Virtel Also, you can only support people who come from Reno 911, because there’s something about the new cast where they constantly brought it. And that show was never like, it’s it’s weird to put that show in a prestige space because it was so fucking silly, but you knew everybody was operating on like a master level on that show, too. So for anybody to like Wendy McLendon-Covey, I’ll always stay mad because it began there, you know? Um, uh, Niecy Nash winning awards is just why we tuned into something like the Emmys. It’s like, yes, immediately when you’re on my television, I know you are in control and I am in safe hands. And she won for, by the way, that fucking Dahmer thing, which I would think that would be the last thing Niecy Nash would be. And and yet she was fabulous. Claws was also amazing. Getting On was also amazing.


Ira Madison III Um, I’ll never know how good she was on Dahmer, because I don’t ever plan on watching it. But Niecy Nash is fantastic all around, and we could pretend that that a. Ward was for Claus and also the standing ovation for Christina Applegate. Another fucking star.


Louis Virtel Uh, what a great way to open the show. What a great way to open the show. And also, she’s very funny, too. She, like, kept it. Clippy moved along. It was emotional. And then we were right into the ceremony. It was very well timed. Um, and, uh, articulated.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um, shout out to 911. By the way.


Louis Virtel That is the craziest part of the show. They were talking about the history of TV and the great moments we’ve had over the years. And, you know, usually that means the I Love Lucy invited me to an episode that means, you know, uh, Sammy Davis Jr, kissing Archie Bunker, etc.. And then they dropped in nine over 11 as if it was like some programing miracle. We all got to witness very, very strange choice. Uncomfortable. Deeply a mistake.


Ira Madison III Mhm. Les Moonves did 9/11, actually.


Louis Virtel No. But first nine over 11. Yes. That’s a Julie Chen Moonves joke right there for you.


Ira Madison III I am so obsessed with her podcast, by the way, her Jesus podcast and how after each season of Big Brother, she interviews someone of the cast and ask them how important God is to them, and they either freeze up or start talking about God. I remember. I forget who it was, but someone from the seaside basically said, yeah, that’s not really part of my life. And that interview wrapped up so quickly.


Louis Virtel Also, it’s a creepy question. It’s like, are you the man from Carrie? Stop. Yeah. Or a character and saved or something?


Ira Madison III I read Carrie recently, by the way. Very good book. And it also gets into a bit of the back story, a bit more to that. I don’t think I picked up from the drama movie a bit, but you know what? Carrie has the tampons and everything thrown at her. There’s, um, passages where the teachers are talking about her, um, the gym teacher talking to the principal, and you get a build back story about how Carrie White’s mom used to be at the school and how she was crazy, and they were like, oh, now we get it, you know? So great book, by the way.


Louis Virtel And rest in peace, Piper Laurie, one of the best ever to do it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Me recommending Carrie in the year of our Lord 2024. Uh, it’s a good book. So. All right, when we’re back, we will be joined by Meyer Hawthorne to discuss his new album, For All Time.


Louis Virtel <AD>


Ira Madison III Our guest today, we would describe as a true musical powerhouse. You know him as a master of soul, and from groups like Tuxedo and Jaded Incorporated. He’s worked with artists all across the musical spectrum, and his most recent album, For All Time, as a testimony to his next chapter. Welcome to Keep It, the Grammy nominated, always cool, Meyer Hawthorne.


Meyer Hawthorne Damn man, you guys just made me sound so much cooler than I really am. That’s great. That’s a thank you. A long time listener. First time caller.


Louis Virtel I’m always blown away when people have listened to the show before because I’m just like, no, go find something else to do. We’ll probably blabbing no matter what happens. Go. Go away. Go do your cool arts.


Meyer Hawthorne Yeah. Uh, my wife put me on to you guys.


Ira Madison III And so thank you to her. And, uh.


Louis Virtel All right.


Meyer Hawthorne But I listen to you guys, and I was like, oh, my God, these guys are detail. Detail. People like me. I’m a detail, man. So you guys just are obsessed with the minutia of things, which is exactly how I am.


Louis Virtel I feel like if you’re a musician, like, you can just endlessly go down a rabbit hole of obsession, obsession, obsession, getting things right, like production never, ever ends.


Meyer Hawthorne Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you hear I’m listening to albums that came out five years ago and I’m like, oh man, I wish I could go back and redo this part of this thing. I could do that so much better. You just gotta. Once it’s out in the world, you just gotta chalk it up to it’s not yours anymore.


Ira Madison III So what do you think about, um, I guess maybe things that you obsess over, like the details on this show we’re constantly talking about, you know, our pop culture, things that are in our brains, and we can’t get out of them. Like what’s in your brain all the time? Like, what are the details that you think that you stress over?


Meyer Hawthorne You guys are unbelievable. Like drop the, uh, the brain supplement routine. Like, are you guys doing ginko balboa capsules? How the fuck do you guys remember it?


Louis Virtel It’s a curse, actually. It has nothing to do with, uh, vitamins. We did not choose this. It is simply the way we are.


Meyer Hawthorne Are you guys doing a crossword puzzles every morning?


Louis Virtel And it’s funny that you say that. I actually just started to become a crossword person. I it annoys me that there are some tricks to the crossword that I have to learn. Like certain, like words that come up again and again that I’m like, oh, right. We have to keep like Esai Morales. I have to keep using his first name because it doesn’t belong anywhere else in the world. E-S-A-I only comes up in his name, but, um, yeah, that’s becoming a part of my routine.


Meyer Hawthorne Me and my wife doing them every morning is like part of my thing. This man is how I keep my. I’m trying to get, like, you guys managed to get my brain sharp again. I feel like I forgot more things than I’ve ever learned, though I.


Ira Madison III Well, I feel like at some point I got into crosswords again too, because I feel like the thing I was, I was trying to do this thing where, um, you’re supposed to do those or other. I downloaded this brainteaser app, which I never use, and then it always reminds me that it’s time to do a new teaser before bed. Uh, and I go for it. Um, but I try to do that thing where I’m like, yeah, those are supposed to help you keep your brain sharp as you get older. But then I think about the fact that I can remember episodes of, like, The Practice from 1998, so maybe I don’t need it. Yeah.


Meyer Hawthorne Particularly so. I mean, the way that you guys can remember, like, who choreographed this scene in a Dorothy Dandridge thing from 1961, like, I that’s the way I am about records, about music. But, um, vinyl like, I can tell you who who played the bass or who. Did you know which which model of Yamaha synthesizer was used in this solo on The Cars, you know, debut in 1979? It’s like I knew all that shit. This is great. Is that. That is also my curse.


Louis Virtel Now, I want to say, generally speaking, you are categorized as neo soul, which I feel like is a term that has secretly 100 different definitions. How do you feel about the label neo soul?


Meyer Hawthorne I mean, it’s just saying the same way I feel about any label, pretty much. I’ve never met a musician ever that has been like, yeah, I’m a neo soul artist. Like, or even, uh, I’m an alternative rock artist. Like, no musician has ever gave a shit about a genre of music, like a category. It’s like we’re we’re just making music, you know? And it’s only. It’s only the labels and the. And like, so many of those categories were invented by iTunes and the record stores because they need a way to organize everything. But we don’t care what you know. I could give a shit. It’s like.


Ira Madison III That’s interesting to hear, I guess. You so sort of the like the micro, um, labeling that has happened because of the internet, but you as a person who’s sort of a, you know, uh, a purveyor, uh, connossuire of vitals and older records, you know, how would you say that? Um, things have just sort of changed from the ability to stroll through the record store, uh, and picking up vinyls. I would assume that everything used to be, um, labeled more just by name, to be honest. Or maybe they weren’t. I didn’t pick up a vital store person until much after, um, you know, people were buying them. I was a Sam Goody person, you know, get going through this. Yeah. And then I discovered vinyls. I feel like sometime after college, when I was living in New York, um, and it became cool in the mid 2000s to buy, um, vinyls.


Meyer Hawthorne Man, I definitely was shopping at Sam Goody, buying $20 CDs in the mall.


Louis Virtel But, uh, that’s exactly how much they cost. Yes. Uh huh.


Meyer Hawthorne Yeah. They were so crazy. The markup on CDs was it was the greatest like, era for for the music business was crazy. They were just minting money at that point before. Before the CD burner came out. And you could you could do double the shit for free. But um, I mean, yeah, the categories is all about, you know, record stores and, and. Yeah, how they, how they need a way to or a system for organizing everything. But I will say, I mean and um, I like I am a vinyl guy for sure. Like, I’m not such a vinyl nerd and I love the, like, tangibility of vinyl. And, you know, the the sonic quality of it, the crackle of it. It’s like it just feels so much more real than an MP3. But that being said, like, I listen to Spotify all the time, so it’s like. I’m definitely. You can’t just, like, exclusively exist in the world of vinyl records. It’s just not realistic.


Louis Virtel Do you have vinyl like displayed at your home in any way? That’s. I feel like if I became a serious vinyl collector, it would be about showing them off in some way or framing them. Do you have music? I have.


Meyer Hawthorne I have, uh, my vinyl library, I. So we just moved to Pasadena, and I built, like, a brand new vinyl room. Like a record room at the at the new houses. It’s pretty insane. And I’ll send you guys a photo. It’s. It’s definitely nuts. This is where I do my, like, wine and vinyl live stream show, but it’s it’s out of control. You guys, like, it’s truly out of control. There’s just thousands and thousands and thousands of records.


Ira Madison III I feel like. I am constantly going through, um, triage. Sometimes when I move, I get rid of Ward, or I’m constantly having friends ask me, like, what are you listening to your vinyl records on? And I’m sort of like, what do you recommend for people if they have them? And just sort of one that’s not going to target and buying a vinyl record, um, player or something, you know, something that’s sort of like an intro for people to listen to something, but it also sounds good.


Meyer Hawthorne For like a record player?


Ira Madison III Yeah. Like, what did you recommend? That’s not just like I’m ordering one off of Amazon and then it comes in and, um, you know, this, um. Vintage Chaka vital sounds like shit on it or something. Or scratching off the record, you know?


Meyer Hawthorne Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t go. Don’t buy the Crosley. That’s going to just chew your records to pieces. Go. I mean, the best move, I would say is to go on Craigslist or, you know, whatever and get a get a technique’s turntable from the 80s, and those things will last forever. It sounds way better than anything they make now. There’s a new one from, um, a company called Audio-Technica. That’s pretty good, but you can buy it, like Best Buy or whatever.


Louis Virtel But no, I’m listening to your new album, uh, for all time. And it’s clear. It’s clear that you relish in a throwback vibe. Like, I keep thinking of the mid 70s when I’m listening to this. How important is it for you to incorporate sounds of your into music? I just feel like most, for example, popular music right now, like I can’t think of anybody who has a truly retro vibe, who is like constantly. We’re being constantly bombarded with that CVS when I walk in, you know, Pink doesn’t sound like she belongs to 1975, for example.


Meyer Hawthorne Nah. And like, my records definitely do have so many of those vintage elements in that, you know, it just comes from my love of vintage soul music, but at the same time, like, I never and never ever want people to listen to my records and like, be confused about whether or not it’s new or not. Like, I want you to know when you, you know, from the second you put it on. Oh yeah, this is a new record, but it but it has that, that timeless feel to it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, I remember the first time I even discovered, um, in music, I think it was probably circa the Rock. Um, and that was, um, sort of like the, the song that pulled me ahead. But then I will also say that, um, in the end of the year and my Spotify um, list, um, Henny and Ginger Ale is always in the top 100 each year. Um, on.


Meyer Hawthorne It never fails.


Ira Madison III Uh, I, I actually started ordering that in the bar, uh, after hearing. No way. So yes, I have, uh, and it’s it’s a pretty good drink. So, uh, I’ve, you know, it’s pretty.


Meyer Hawthorne Damn good, right?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Meyer Hawthorne It’s not bad, man. All my ignorant Detroit friends got me hooked on Hennessy from an early age. And it’s once you get it in your system and you can’t let it go.


Ira Madison III I truly have a bottle that’s on my bar cart in, um, my apartment, because I have two particular friends who love it. Um, one of them’s from Detroit, too. And, uh, every time that they come over, uh, it’s always restocked with that because they’re the ones who drink it the most.


Meyer Hawthorne Man, I swear, I swear, they’re like. They’re like, sprinkling it in the water supply in Detroit. There’s something about it, man. We just love it over there.


Ira Madison III Um, I want to ask you about other artists that you’ve worked with and that particularly just working with, um, people that you’ve, um, you know, sort of been on tour with. Um, Louis brought up the fact that, um, there aren’t any sort of modern artists right now who, you know, sort of have that big throwback vibe that you’d be hearing at a CVS, which is interesting because you opened for Amy Winehouse on her last tour. And I would say that was the last time where a very popular artist who was making music that was in the top 40 was being played everywhere, and she had that whole very throwback vibe to, I guess, sort of. What was it like working with Amy during that tour, and what do you sort of think that, um, we’ve missed in music? Um, since she isn’t making it anymore? Like, was there a direction we were going in that was fun, that you feel sort of like there’s a hole there now? Because we don’t have Amy right now.


Meyer Hawthorne She was a just an unbelievably special, gifted human, for sure. I mean, when she I mean, she obviously had her, like, very sad, you know, off mic issues. But when she was on stage, the moments that she was on stage singing, it was like revelatory. It was crazy. I still to this day, I have never seen anything like it. I mean, the it was just so unbelievably captivating and there was a real like, power to it that is just so rare. Um, but I think a huge part of what made her so relatable for everyone was that it wasn’t just like the the music, the sound and the feeling of it was very retro. But what she was talking about in the songs felt new still. It was like if it was like, oh, yeah, I’m. You know, I can I can actually relate to that. What you’re talking about. And it didn’t feel like your parents music.


Louis Virtel Yeah. There’s a quality about her. I think there’s just a quality about you and her, where if you’re incorporating all these old styles of music, what it means is you’re reverent and you’ve been paying attention. And so there’s just something I naturally trust about that vibe. Like, oh, here’s somebody who is not out here just to say I’m new and important, but I am at a particular point on a timeline, and I know what came before me. And I just think that makes you seem, I don’t know, mature. I guess it’s the word.


Meyer Hawthorne I’ll take it, man. Yeah. I mean, I do my homework for sure. It’s like, um, I really care about this stuff, man. I think it comes through in the music. I hope it comes through in the music. And, you know, one of the really cool things about, like, working with artists like Doja Cat and, you know, Jordan Ward and and Blue to Tiger and Max and all these like, cool, very cool up and coming artists is that I can kind of like, be the guy in the room that knows all those references. I can, you know, I work with young artists all the time who are going for like, you know, let’s say they want to they’re going for like, I want a new jack swing type, a feel for this song. But they’ve never they don’t know Bobby Brown. And I can be like, yo, he did it like, perfect. It’s as good as you can do it, you know? And I can kind of be the the guy in the room that, like, knows all the references. It’s been really, really fun. And it’s been super inspiring for me. Like just to get to work with all these like, younger artists because, uh, and, and it influences me in my own music. Like, it keeps me, uh.


Ira Madison III Referencing, um, you know, people like, um, Bobby Brown, you know, or, um, you know, other faves of yours, like Steely Dan, you know, like, you have, um, all these musical artists in your brand and me as a person who listens to so much music, you know, um, sometimes I’m, I was like, what exactly do I, what I was to to to get into the mood. But then I always have the stalwarts that I always return to. I mean, who would you say amongst your vast, um, knowledge and love of music are the artists or particular albums that you always find yourself returning to and that you feel like maybe if you introduced them to someone, it would be like a perfect encapsulation of who you are as a person.


Meyer Hawthorne Steely Dan is a big one, man. I always say, if you don’t like Steely Dan, I probably don’t like you as a person. It’s very divisive, though. It’s very, very divisive. Like people, some people really can’t stand it. And I think I don’t know what it is about the van, but, um, The Delfonics is something that I always or that that type of sound is something that I always, always go back to. Um, what else, man or soul? Prince? Prince’s another one that’s like, can be kind of divisive, I think, but, um, maybe maybe less so now that he’s gone. But. Uh, there’s something about France. I mean, in the fact that he wrote all the music, played all the instruments himself. You know, he played the bass, he played the drums, he played the keys, like every single part of of those songs is him. And there’s something like, you know, I obviously don’t play the instruments anywhere near as good as him, but I am. I’m doing a similar thing with my own music, where I play most of the instruments on my records and I’m writing, I’m writing the songs. So I’ve always had kind of like a connection to Prince in that way.


Louis Virtel Yeah, he is sort of like if Mozart could jump into the splits. I mean, just it’s a very unusual one of a kind skills that he brought to the universe. Um.


Meyer Hawthorne There is nobody like him, man. And then, you know, they asked, uh, I remember they famously asked, um, like, uh, when Jeff Beck died, I think they asked Eric Clapton, like, who’s like they asked him, how does it feel to be the greatest guitarist left alive? And he said, I don’t know, go ask Prince.


Louis Virtel And then he said 20 other anti-vax things, unfortunately.


Meyer Hawthorne So he said some other really offensive shit, like super offensive shit after that. Yeah.


Louis Virtel I have to applaud you on this album because, uh, you know, a big feeling in it is it’s about this, uh, you’re married and, uh, the feeling of having a sort of eternal love. And I just have to say that in the abstract, that can be a boring subject, like, oh, I’m married, and it’s going well, you know, not a lot of conflict there to go into. But, you know, every once in a while we get a song like, for example, Drunk in Love, which, you know, does something with the idea of being married and really enjoying it. Is it at all daunting to approach this subject and come up with compelling material based on it?


Meyer Hawthorne Man. So daunting. It’s it was something I was really nervous about because it, I was like, oh no, you know what? Now I’m married and I have I’m like happy. And that what do I what do I write about. Like that’s not interesting. But, uh, then I realized that, like, all of the, all of my favorite songs that I listen to that I love are love songs for the most part. And they don’t have to be boring like it’s you can do it in a way that’s not boring. And it’s like the. The last thing that I ever want to be is boring. It’s the worst thing you can be is, like, middle of the road. Like I’d never want anybody to listen to one of my records and be like, oh, cool. All right. Like, I either want you to love it or be like, yeah, this is not for me. So. I think I figured out a way to make it not boring.


Ira Madison III I would say that you have. And I would actually say that Louis sort of asked, like the exact last question that I was going to ask. Just because having listened to your progression of albums, um, you could sort out, you could see mentally, emotionally where you are with the concept of love. Um, and it seems that you’ve gone on this beautiful roller coaster to where you’re at, uh, the sort of great, uh, beautiful place with it. And I think that, um, this is really a great album and one of my favorites of yours.


Meyer Hawthorne Uh, thank you so much. Uh, yeah. I really wanted to be like, uh, I’m in my Barry White era, for sure. Like, I just want to be the guy that you listen to in the bedroom, because I just feel like we don’t have that right now. Like, who do you guys listen. Who do you listen to when you’re in the bedroom?


Ira Madison III Like, uh, The Weeknd?


Louis Virtel I say the French group Paradis, P-A-R-A-D-I-S from, like, ten years ago. Yeah. Hemisphere. I love that sound.


Meyer Hawthorne So. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Yeah, but you’re right. The Love Unlimited orchestra. We’re not getting much of that recently. You’re right.


Meyer Hawthorne No you’re not. Which Kim Petras album do you listen to?


Ira Madison III Uh huh. You know, um, Tetris is more about the precursor to sex. You know, it’s. You’re in the club, right? You’re getting there. Uh, it’s a little. It’s a little to camp, um, to hear, um. Right. Pop or fuck me like a slot while you’re actually in the moment, you know?


Louis Virtel Right. Once we’ve actually gotten to the fucking like a slut, I don’t need to actually put the message out there anymore.


Meyer Hawthorne Right, right. Then you don’t need anymore, right?


Ira Madison III Uh, I say, I say The Weeknd because, you know, like, there’s bass. Uh, he sort of has this feel of something that feels like it should be a sex record, but you have to ignore the lyrics. Um, yeah. He’s usually used for. He’s mad about the whole concert and stuff.


Meyer Hawthorne You got to do, you do got to kind of tune that out. I do think, yeah, I do. I agree that I think like older weekend is maybe the closest thing we have to like that very white, modern day, very white thing. Anyway, I’m trying to be that. I want to be that guy.


Ira Madison III Oh well, thank you so much for being here and for this album and also bringing up Barry White. I feel like it was last I, we talked about so much shit on this show, so I can never remember what it was, but I truly feel like last year, Louis and I were talking about a deep cut of Barry White, because I feel like in popular culture, especially when we were growing up, Barry White was sort of, you know, the deep voiced joke and like, this is a romantic song. And there were like two songs that people would pop culture. But like if you visit these deep cuts, they’re not just romantic songs, but they’re like funk, like club songs that you would want to turn on to his version of slut pop.


Meyer Hawthorne Yeah. Oh, yeah. The maestro. The maestro goes deep, man. Yeah. He was. He was an incredible artist. Yeah, his catalog is crazy. One of the best producers ever to in music. The sounds that he got from the drums and the bass and guitar, I mean, he was a real innovator, has incredible stuff. He doesn’t definitely doesn’t get the credit in that, in that area that he deserves.


Louis Virtel Well, thank you so much for being here. And, uh, the album is on repeat. I so love it.


Meyer Hawthorne Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks, IRA. Thanks, Louis.


Speaker 1 <AD>


Ira Madison III So we have both seen Mean Girls, the movie based on the musical, based on the movie based on the novel Push by Sapphire. No.


Louis Virtel Based also on the book. Uh, Queen Bees and Wannabes by Rosalind Wiseman. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yes. Uh, which I remember reading.


Louis Virtel I’m sure it taught you all you need to know about being a bitch. I, I, I’m sure you needed a big old primer or primer, whatever the word is.


Ira Madison III But when I was working at Barnes and Noble, it was there, and I picked it up. And for some reason, I did not know it was a, um, a guide to mothers on how to help their daughters navigate, uh, high school. Um, but, uh, but speaking of the new movie. What do you think of it?


Louis Virtel Well, I’ll say this. Going into it, I expected a retread. You know, like, I know that there are songs in it. I wasn’t that familiar with the, uh, musical, other than the song World Burn, which I’ve heard performed before, which is the main, uh, Regina George song. And I know Renee Rapp as both a powerful singer and also a zany interviewee. Uh, off the chain, she’ll say anything. It’s confusing. Brown. So off the chain, it’s confusing. Um, but, uh, anyway, I will say this, um, for me, it’s a thumbs up for a movie. I don’t think the songs are good. I, I don’t I don’t have any of them in my head afterwards. I don’t remember them.


Ira Madison III However bad.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Not good songs. Uh, confusing. The jokes in the movie. I got a little sick of them being reiterated from the first one. Obviously they felt indebted to the original script, which is filled with all these lines that have stuck in popular culture over the years. You know, the it’s October 3rd. All of Regina George’s lines, etc. but for the most part, Tina Fey punched up her previous dialog. And man, is it just good to hear that voice again. Um, as I was saying with and Gallery Rice last week, once upon a time Tina Fey would write something and then it would be on TV immediately, and then you would see it and be laughing at it with everybody you knew. And like, that’s just not the world we live in right now. She actually is doing now a TV show version of the old 1981 Alan Alda movie that he wrote and directed, called The Four Seasons. That’s turning into a TV show, which I’ll be starring at. I’m so excited for that. It’s such a good movie. Uh, one of the best marital fights ever. Uh, in a movie between Alan Alda and Carol Burnett. Uh, Sandy Dennis, my favorite actor’s plays a scream of a character. Uh, she’s a boring wife who gets who is divorced, and her main hobby is drawing vegetables. So funny. Anyway.


Ira Madison III If you want to pair that with another film about a couple going on a trip and meeting another couple, and, you know, they’re sort of, um, wacky high jinks going on, I just watch Bitter Moon for the first time, and that is something. Um, Polanski, uh, we love him. Uh, but it is.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. What he stands for, who he is, where he is. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Uh, it’s it’s a wild, fucking horny and movie that is also about, you know, like, kinks and things like that, but it’s really quite good and weird. So, um, that’s recommended. Pair that with the Four Seasons.


Louis Virtel Um, I will say this about the casting in this movie. Surprisingly, I did not find myself comparing this cast to the original, and I don’t know why that is. Um, like, I thought Rene Rapp was different enough from Rachel McAdams in Mean Girls that their performances didn’t even overlap to me, even though they’re saying a lot of the same things. Like, even if you just compare the ways they both say, get in, loser, they don’t remind me of each other. I feel like we’re talking about two different movies. Um. In terms of new casting, I thought the triumph was Avantika, who plays Karen, the Amanda Seyfried role from the original. First of all, it was nothing like the way she played it. Second of all, it was so in your face, um, confused, daffy, harebrained, and yet funny when it came to singing the songs in a featured character actress way that I thought it just stood on its own belonged lovely. And she just a pleasure to watch.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um. Listen, I’m just going to be frank.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Who cast Aaron Samuels?


Louis Virtel It’s tough. I don’t know what happened there. Because he wasn’t bringing it on any level.


Ira Madison III There was no charisma there. Um, and he just sort of. He’s a cute boy, but he sort of looks like one of the. He looks sort of like Bill Skarsgard, son. You know, is that giving that Aaron Samuels that, you know, you’re going to have and I could see Angourie Rice, his character falling for Aaron Samuels. It was very weird that Rene Rapp’s character is obsessed with this boy. You know, um, and I also kept waiting for, okay, maybe he has a song. Maybe there’s a reason why Aaron Samuels even exists in this movie. But it wasn’t just the casting. Aaron Samuels is sort of a non-factor in this movie. Completely.


Louis Virtel Right? And also like, like Jonathan Bennett in the original movie, there is a like dream boy quality to him, and he’s not giving you like he’s not never quite giving Katie the time of day. And so there is this, like, aspirational quality to wanting to be with him, whereas this character felt utterly approachable.


Ira Madison III Yes. And he liked her immediately, sort of from the jump. And even though he’s supposed to be stupid. He doesn’t seem very stupid in this movie, whereas Aaron Jonathan Bennett played him with a sort of sweet, good natured ness. But he was also an idiot, you know?


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. You could believe that he sort of was dialing it in in terms of his schoolwork or whatever. Um, I enjoyed Ali Cravalho as, uh, of, of course, of Moana fame as, uh, Janice in this movie. Now, I’ll say this, Lizzy Caplan added a verve to the character that I think was maybe slightly missing here. That said, I also believed the queerness of this character a little bit more with her.


Ira Madison III Um, well, the Janice’s queerness was more hinted at in. Yeah, the original. And I will also say that the main problem with this Mean Girls, I think everyone has sort of set this on line. It you could take the word meaning out of the title. This movie has no bite to it, to be honest. It’s just it’s perfectly nice.


Louis Virtel It’s not quite mean enough. Yeah. Yes. Right. Right, right. Um, no. And I don’t even know how how that happened. Maybe it’s just because there’s more time singing, so it just seems less mean. I have no idea.


Ira Madison III Well, I feel like some of the jokes were tamped down a bit and made to be a little bit nicer. And people keep saying that this is a reflection of Gen Z. But let me tell you something. Gen Z is full of cunts. Have you not seen them online? They they have. They are rude as fuck.


Louis Virtel And they have the time. Yeah. Oh, is your day not ruined yet? Well, let’s dig in.


Ira Madison III Uh, so, um, yeah, I think you can be mean and nasty, uh, in a movie like this, because they’re, first of all, they’re quoting the original Mean Girls all the time, which is a mean, a nasty movie in some parts.


Louis Virtel I did believe Renee rap as a as as a nasty mean girl. That said, another relationship I didn’t understand was the the Lacey Chabert character, the toaster Stewart old whatever. I didn’t see how she would be friends with Renee Rapp.


Ira Madison III Yeah, she’s she’s sort of was just there as well. Um, the plastics didn’t feel as unified, to be honest. But I will also say that getting back to Renee. I said it before. Uh, just. I would describe her as brassy. You know, I really enjoy that goofy song. Not my fault that she made with Megan Thee Stallion.


Louis Virtel So. Love it. It’s in the closing credits of this movie.


Ira Madison III Yes. I don’t know if they became friends before or if she sort of, you know, sort of, like, really loves Megan and maybe modeled himself after her. But let me tell you, the most mesmerizing thing in this movie is just watching Renee Rapp walk through a hallway. Just she’s she’s got sort of like, like a stallion esque, like, built to herself. Like she looks very she looks very much like Megan Thee Stallion. She’s so captivating. She walks with such a presence. Um, I just I love her so much. And she has a great fucking voice, too, so I like, it’s. It’s nice seeing this version of her. It’s nice seeing her on, um, uh, in other roles. And it’s nice seeing her in interview. She just feels like an all around sort of fun person and people responding to her. Watch What Happens Live interview where she jokes about being ageless. It’s fucking funny. Get a life if you hate it. Uh, because if you hate it and you’re constantly whining about it, you’re going to be one of those people who results in her becoming media trained and not being funny in interviews anymore. So like, shut the fuck up. We want celebrities to be funny and entertaining. We don’t want them sitting there saying everything boring. That’s going to make people like them on social media.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I have to actually say I agree with that. The ageism quote was also just pretty funny. It was so random. Like, where are you coming from on this? I was, I was I was pretty bowled over by the, um, verve of it that said, okay, I got into a fight with a friend recently about this, and I’ll be honest, I thought we were all on the same page. We were talking about whether the original Clueless or the original Mean Girls is funnier. And I thought as adults, we had concluded that the original clueless is not only flawless entertainment, I would describe it as the Madonna of Comedy movies, which is to say, there is a fuck you fabulousness to it, a take it or leave it. The characters are extremely witty. They’re also a little devious. They’re also they’re just fucking real. Like, I don’t know, not contrived in any way. And Mean Girls, of course, is very funny. There’s some jokes there, but it’s playing within the archetypes of a high school movie the way most high school movies do. So I find it a little more replaceable than what clueless brings. I’m here to say definitively, clueless is a four star entertainment, and Mean Girls is a three star entertainment era. What do you think? Oh.


Ira Madison III All right, well, both of them have five stars on my Letterbox’d.


Louis Virtel Okay. Five stars. Well, what is this? Premiere Magazine? Uh, I hate the five star scale. Can we fight about this, too? What does what does four and a half stars to four stars mean? There’s no differentiation there. The four stars column has enough increments that each specific level has meaning. This is important to me. And Letterbox’d has lost me this way. I need them to reach out to me.


Ira Madison III Uh, I was talking to a boy at a party recently who did tell me that I’m a little generous with my stars, but, uh, um, I will say that that is a hard question, because if you’re saying that this is that’s Madonna, I would say that, um, Mean Girls is Britney blackout, you know, because I think that they’re both okay in different ways because Edward, you asked me also which is the better movie. Clueless is the better movie.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Which one I may be laughing at more minute to minute is Mean Girls. There was is not to say that clueless isn’t funny. Ah, and sort of better and just sort of like with the characters and the way that it’s presented. But Mean Girls does have more minute to minute jokes in it, so I’m constantly laughing at it. I think a lot of the beauty of clueless is it actually has a bit more, um, heart and emotion then Mean Girls that works in it. But in those scenes you don’t necessarily need to be cracking up, you know?


Louis Virtel Okay, I kind of concur on this more.


Ira Madison III Romantic than Mean Girls, and I think a romance is a lot different than a straight up, um, balls of wild comedy.


Louis Virtel I think the inspired nature of the story of clueless also makes it funnier, though. Like for me, the original Mean Girls and my friend Marianne Fluker just said this and I’m basically cribbing her right now. The happy ending of Mean Girls is a little unearned, and it feels like the ending to any movie, whereas I feel like every step of clueless is not contrived. I know this is a different conversation than what is funny or moment to moment, but I think that nature of I don’t know what’s coming next and clueless still makes it funnier. Like Cher even talking about, um, Elton and saying he just wants things to be beautiful like her. Like observations about people are so like, built in brilliant character writing. And I think that is something Mean Girls lacks, even though it has. Really fun characters. Really funny characters. I’m not seeing something elevated beyond that.


Ira Madison III Well, I knew where it was going because I’ve read Emma Louis.


Louis Virtel Uh oh, God.


Ira Madison III But pick up a book.


Louis Virtel I was just wondering if we could toast Jane Austen more in this society. Jesus Christ, not a name we hear fucking 50 times a year still.


Ira Madison III You know what’s very funny? Um, Brandon Taylor, uh, put a, um, put up, put up a picture he had taken of a new addition, I believe, uh, Pride and Prejudice. And in the back of it, it has quotes from other authors at the time, uh, and how much they hated the book or didn’t like Jane Austen’s writing like Charlotte.


Louis Virtel Oh, that’s so funny.


Ira Madison III On TV is off the back of a quote they like. I don’t know what’s going on with her writing.


Louis Virtel My sisters and I fucking hate it. And one of them’s dead already.


Ira Madison III *laughter* Which which which is fine.


Louis Virtel I love I, by the way. That’s every once in a while on jeopardy! They will literally have, um, categories about writers shading each other. Just go ahead and look up that good reads or that brainy quote or whatever writers took calling each other full of shit or whatever. A constant blast. Oscar Wilde and Walt Whitman and all those people just sounding off good time.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, who did Langston Hughes like?


Louis Virtel Oh, that would be fun to look up and see. Like Gwendolyn Brooks. I don’t want to hear it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um, anyway, the movie is perfectly fine. It’s not great. It’s not really good, but I enjoyed it. I am disappointed that I saw it at a screening at 4 p.m., um, in the middle of the day at the Paramount Screening room, because I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more if I were, um, drunk and saw it, um, with a rowdy crowd in a theater.


Louis Virtel Um, one element from the original that I think is better in this version than the last version, and I can’t say that about many parts of this movie. Tim Meadows I thought he got harder laughs this time than last time, and it’s so good to see him. What, uh, what a, uh, venerable comic actor.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Uh. He is. He’s very funny. And this, uh, Jon Hamm could have been funnier. Uh, Jon Hamm is always funny, but I feel like a lot of the jokes about the gym teacher when you take out the whole train part. This of it all, um, there’s really nothing else going on with the gym teacher, so it’s not as funny. Um, that Reginal joke really got me. And also the iCarly theme song joke about somebody was, uh, very funny in it.


Louis Virtel Which I did not bring him. He is fabulous. Yes, yes. As the new Damien. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yes. He was also in a strange clip on Broadway. And while I did not think that that performance was as, um, captivating to me as when I saw Larry Owens in it off Broadway. Um, he was fantastic in me. And so, um, a really a really fun, um, and exciting cast, too. So I give it a sideways, the rare sideways, um, um, that, you know, um, Siskel and Ebert and then Roeper later, um, would give on the show. It has to be a sideways, because I don’t really want to give it a thumbs down. I really don’t want to give it a thumbs up either.


Louis Virtel I want to be clear that there is a Sesame Street sketch where they talk about sideways thumbs, and it’s very amusing. Uh, you forget how much they permeated pop culture that they would be on Sesame Street. But anyway.


Ira Madison III Can I tell you that I recently discovered that there used to be a controversy online about the fact that Elmo was eating up Sesame Street, uh, and was stealing away time from the beloved characters.


Louis Virtel I am anti Elmo bitch. I do not want to hear his horrish laughter. I do not want to hear. I don’t know with his bug eyes. I don’t want to see it. Grover has the comedy chops. Grover, baby. Grover has the vulnerability. Grover is a terrible waiter, and we love him for it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um, I’m a big Grover fan. I don’t know if I brought it up on the show, but I have.


Louis Virtel Tickle me less. I do not want it.


Ira Madison III I just never want it to tickle me. Elmo. As a kid, I had a Grover doll. Since I was.


Louis Virtel Duh.


Ira Madison III As young as I can remember. And I truly kept that thing up through high school. And then I gave it to my niece when she was a kid, and she tore it apart. Um, but, um, I had that. I had that Grover doll re-stitched several times as a kid. Uh, Mickey was missing an eye and everything, but Grover will always be, um, my favorite Sesame Street character.


Louis Virtel The way he’s constantly embarrassed. Oh, I am so embarrassed. It’s like, come on, Bob Newhart. Come on. Uh, dry comics of yor.


Ira Madison III You know who Elmo is? Leia. Michelle.


Louis Virtel No, don’t say that. Were doing so well. Then you call them Leah Michelle.


Ira Madison III Uh, no. Elmo.


Louis Virtel He is the funniest girl. He is the funniest girl, that I will say.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um. Anyway, Elmo, Keep It to Elmo.


Louis Virtel Fuck off! Fuck off. Don’t look at me. Let’s go learn your numbers.


Ira Madison III Uh, also feuding with a rock.


Louis Virtel It was sad.


Ira Madison III Go to your therapist about that.


Louis Virtel He’s a sad girl.


Ira Madison III Well. We’re back. Keep It. All right, we’re back with our favorite.


Louis Virtel I just want to say I. I would stand Prairie Dawn before I stand that motherfucker. Okay. Moving on. Sorry. I’m done. She at least knows that she’s from the prairie. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III All right. We’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It. Louis?


Louis Virtel Uh huh.


Ira Madison III What’s your Keep It today?


Louis Virtel You know what’s interesting? I thought my Keep It was going to be slightly different before I began this. I originally was going to say Keep It to the new Ariana Grande single. Yes. And which didn’t do anything for me the first time I heard it.


Ira Madison III Likely for you to do.


Louis Virtel Yeah. To me, this is a song that needs a particular place to be successful in, and I can think of too. Heard it in my car. Good driving music, a house beat, um, you know, keeps me trucking along as I’m going down Santa Monica Boulevard. Whatever. Also group fitness classes. It’s very Soul cycle, the nature of this song. And that’s an okay single. That’s something that belongs, you know, uh, music belongs certain places. And this is where that belongs. Where she lost me was in the video for yes. And which is a tribute to Paula Abdul’s cold hearted video, which, of course, is itself a tribute to all that jazz. Uh, the Bob Fosse movie from 1979. If you’re going to do a tribute to a Paula Abdul video, I don’t know. Could you dance? Uh, could you be Paula Abdul? The thing about her was, obviously she had really popular singles. Uh, all those songs endured to me. I think they’re all great, but Paula Abdul really was, uh, a throwback dancer type. Like a centuries old school Hollywood person who really loved to, like, get out in front of an audience and tap. And, I mean, there’s no other word for it. Jive. She is a driver when she is on stage, and that energy is very essential to what the cold hearted video is and why it’s such a good video directed by, uh, David Fincher.


Ira Madison III Mhm.


Louis Virtel In this video, Ariana Grande is truly leaning and sort of being tossed around and walking. I just don’t know why you would toast this particular video if, um, that’s what you’re going to do. Just I don’t really I don’t expect dancing from her, but then don’t do the tribute to the dance video, because I don’t know why we picked this one.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um, honestly, she could have done the, um, Opposites Attract video because she’s already dating MC Skat Kat. So I don’t see why we had to do the cold hearted video. Uh, because that. Yeah. Yeah, that is you. You are. You’re not even better than Naya Rivera doing it on Glee, which was a hot number.


Louis Virtel Precisely, precisely. No, it’s just it’s confusing to me. I do love, like, throwbacks to old music videos, just because I feel like more and more of them are being lost to time. And if you don’t see like the if you don’t hear the song on Drag Race, for example, I don’t even know the conduit through which, like a Gen-Z person would end up seeing these videos or hearing these songs, even though they’re chronically available on YouTube. Of course.


Ira Madison III I actually want to say to the YouTube thing one, we should fix that algorithm. I hate the YouTube algorithm. Now. I think it’s a little bit like the Spotify algorithm, in that I used to think Spotify playlists were so good, they would give me new songs that were in the vein of what I sort of wanted to listen to. If you pick just a playlist off of one song, but now it’s the algorithm is growing smarter, you know, they’re like raptors. They could open doors now because the Spotify just gives you songs you’re already listening to. Yeah, right. I don’t get anything new in them anymore. And I feel like YouTube does that to YouTube should have an option where they are. If you’re if you are fagots at an after party or pregame and you’re watching videos, it should be offering you classic videos like Cold Hearted Snake or classic live performances from the 80s and 90s 2000. Instead of just giving me another Tove Lo and Jessie where video. All right, come on, where is the variety? YouTube is not doing enough to educate the masses.


Louis Virtel Um, I do want to say, by the way, that I would I was undereducated about how good Tove Lou’s  videos are. That’s a good, uh, uh, YouTube k hole to go down.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Tove Lo is how it should be pronounced, you know.


Louis Virtel As a chimney sweep would say it. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Period. Uh. Second thing I brought up Naya Rivera doing Cold Hearted Snake on Glee, and I’m now thinking about how weird it is that two Big Sean exes have done tributes to a Paula Abdul video. The same one.


Louis Virtel And who’s the other one now?


Ira Madison III Naya Rivera and Ariana Grande.


Louis Virtel Oh, I say you do link them up. Yes yes yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Maybe he’s uh, maybe he’s like at home putting on Vibe-ology. Maybe that’s his bedroom music.


Louis Virtel Another tribute to Cold Hearted that I think people should listen to. Kat Graham of Vampire Diaries fame, did a cover of Cold Hard Snake that I love.


Ira Madison III Baby, baby Kat. Uh, I’m a Graham cracker. Okay, Put Your Graffiti On Me, was a song for the ages.


Louis Virtel But I love that song. Love that song. Yes.


Ira Madison III I love Kat Graham. I saw her perform, um, Put Your Graffiti on me at the Abbey one time.


Louis Virtel Uh, where it belongs. A place I will graffiti myself. Yeah. Uh.


Ira Madison III You know, once upon a time I saw Charli XCX and Kim Petras perform there. So Kat Graham could go on to having, um, gays talk about how she’s the best thing ever. Um, even without topping the charts, you know?


Louis Virtel So I. Potential promise. We love it. IRA, what is your Keep It this week.


Ira Madison III My Keep It this week goes to Monica Garcia on The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Now, Monica Garcia was the new cast member this season. Uh, she was a former cohort of Jen Shah, who is currently in prison. Uh, she is also a person who testified against Jen Shaw to the feds and then works her way onto this show. Later come to find out that she was running an Instagram account called Reality Von Teese, where she was tried to take down Jen Shah, but also just posting gossip and rumors and baseless things, um, about the other women of the cast for years. And that was discovered not by her exposing it herself. Um, basically, her lies just didn’t add up. And Heather Gay, one of the cast members of the show, did some investigating and then exposed her in the season finale of, um, this season. And shout out to Heather Gay for doing that and producing a great episode of television. Um, there are a lot of gays online who are in love with Monica. I think she was great this season. I thought she was a very fun villain, but at the end of the day, she did not contribute to why that finale was great. She was basically just lying to the women all season, and she only got interesting television out of it because she was exposed. And so I don’t know why we’re obsessed with the idea that Monica needs to be on the show next season. She’s revealed herself to be extremely corny. She did a photoshoot after the RFeality Von Tease exposé, which was kind of funny, but after that, she’s one of these people who was constantly tweeting and constantly posting screenshots of texts she has with people. It’s just sort of like, Girl, you’re doing too much. And at the reunion this week, um, she brought a burn book to the show, which has more gossip about the women, and it’s like, first of all, grow the fuck up. And two, you’re doing free promo for Mean Girls The Movie. Like, I know you.


Louis Virtel Came out this week.


Ira Madison III Yeah, right. Yeah. I know you didn’t get a check for that girl. Okay. Um. Uh. I do also want to give a brief Keep It to Andy Cohen, who.


Louis Virtel Keep It guest.


Ira Madison III Read read a tweet of mine on in the reunion, which set off a little bit of a bomb at the end of the first part of the reunion, but I know that he has locked into those cue cards, um, and, uh, just sort of reads them out loud. But he said, Ira Madison three tweeted. And I just want to say, girl, why are you reading my handle? You know who I am.


Louis Virtel Ira Madison three. That’s giving Dear Evan Hansen. Ben Platt, who played Dear, he gave everything.


Ira Madison III Um, but that was a fun treat. And he had recorded that reunion, I believe, around the time that he did our show. So he had that. He had the knowledge that he had called me IRA Madison three in his brain already.


Louis Virtel I don’t know if anybody in the history of time with an I-I-I after their name has ever been called three, unless you are like Henry three and like in you’re reading the Shakespeare First Folio or something.


Ira Madison III Yeah, or like one of Elon Musk kids.


Louis Virtel Yeah. But there’s like unpronounceable symbols in those so that that’s not even the same thing.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um, anyway, Gracie’s on of TV, though, and my position is that The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is sort of like a Desperate Housewives. You have the four core women and a bunch of crazy people who pop up each season and either torment them or add some flavor to the show. Uh, but you don’t need to keep, you know, the cycle going forever. Okay. We saw what happened on Melrose Place when that happened. Okay? Monica Garcia will just end up being like Eve, dressed in a cheerleader costume, running around trying to blow people up and poison them. Um, I don’t really need that. Also, she’s broke. She was there were in the Bahamas, and she was paying for, um, a purse with a Chime card. Okay, I don’t watch the Real Housewives franchise as he broke relatable people. Okay, I.


Louis Virtel Have to say, aspiration does seem to be the key ingredient of this show, even if they’re gossipy assholes or whatever. You do have to aspire to something about them.


Ira Madison III Okay, I’m not watching this. See you fly frontier. Okay, I’m gonna jump to watch. Not this year. Not this year. Because that’s the strike. The strike sort of took away, um, my diamond status, and I’m back down to gold. Um, it’s been a very trying time for me. Oh, sure. But, uh. Yeah. Uh, I used my last.


Louis Virtel Maybe the bus is right for you. Uh huh.


Ira Madison III Destiny’s child doesn’t have to perform that song anymore. Okay, I’m not going to get on the bus. Uh, anyway, I had to use the certificate to get down to Miami, where I am currently. By the way, uh, if everyone’s wondering


Louis Virtel You dressed the part.


Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. I realize that only the people watching Keep It on YouTube. Well, know that I’m not where I usually am in New York. So, um. Mr. Latino, uh, as it were. Or wepa.


Louis Virtel You know, you sound like my favorite Latin woman. Who is Madonna? By that, I mean, she sure isn’t.


Ira Madison III Uh, yo tiendo means I get it.


Louis Virtel Uh uh. Duolingo. Over here. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Spanish lesson.


Louis Virtel Oh.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel Good call back.


Ira Madison III One of my favortie goofy songs of hers.


Louis Virtel She. You know what? She is underrated in the in the goofy department when it comes to music. There’s always like, oh, what the fuck were you thinking, song on here. That’s usually a little funny.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Um, anyway, that’s our show this week. Thank you to Meyer Hawthorne for being our guest this week. Um, off of our conversation, responding to YouTube comments to what music you fuck to?


Louis Virtel Yeah, it is a good question. Uh, also, it’s I mean, I think I think a good answer is I hate fucking to the music sometimes, but like, other people religiously insist on it. So I need to hear from those people.


Ira Madison III Yeah, we all know that. You’re like Isabelle Huppert in the bedroom. Silence. No talking.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Popcorn. No drinks.


Louis Virtel Certainly no snack. Certainly no snack.


Ira Madison III And there’s vague French happening. And a woman staring out of a window crying.


Louis Virtel Piano lesson is a lot like what goes out of my bedroom. Just know that.


Ira Madison III Uh. All right, uh, we will see you next week, as always, with more Keep It. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.


Louis Virtel Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Chris Lord and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison the third, Louis Virtel, and Kendra James. Our digital team as Megan Patsel, Claudia Shang, and Rachel Gaeweski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.


Ira Madison III Elmo sucks. I’m sorry.


Louis Virtel Be a shame if he killed himself.


Ira Madison III Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha. The younger people love Elmo because he was pushed on them.


Louis Virtel Right? And he’s screaming. Oh I like the thing that I can’t fucking get out of my ears because it’s screaming. Picture you’re at a brothel and the loudest madam will not stop laughing and you’re. And you’re smoking. You know, just that like gross energy. That is Elmo.


Ira Madison III You know, you don’t kids, kids don’t love Oscar or The Count that much anymore because they’re barely on the show.


Louis Virtel Those are characters. Yes. Oscar. Point of view. The Count. Autism.


Ira Madison III *laughter*